This is the primary failing of the get out of Iraq Issue. To let people like Ms. Brown get away with making the absurd statement that if you don’t support the mission you don’t support the troops. What is not supporting the troops is putting them in an untenable situation, such as being in the middle of a civil war.
I’m so sick of the whole “against the troops” meme.
How the hell can someone actually be “against the troops”? It’s idiotic to even have to qualify your statement “I’m against the war” with the statement “but of course, I support the troops”.
The fact that this is even an issue shows just how successful the neocon spin machine has been in warping perceptions.
If you really want to know who’s “against the troops”, you needn’t look any further than the Commander-in-Chimp, who has kept soldiers in the field far too long, neglected to equip them properly, and added the insult of slashing their benefits.
1. The war is lost.
2. More troops will die unnecessarily if they stay
How is that being against the troops?
Here is what the GOP is really saying.
1. The war isn’t lost ( Because we can’t take responsibility for the loss- we need to stall for time. We have to try to pass that buck to the future or to the Dems …SOMEHOW)
2. More troops will die unnecessarily if they stay ( we don’t care about that)
Here is what I say: How DARE they play games with our troops lives? Campbell Brown is a propogandist. Once again, the simple GOP equation for fighting their opponents…… Blame on your enemy exactly what you are doing or being accused of.
Have we caught on yet? What hasn’t this talking point ( above) been crushed? It’s been around too long.
It’s also difficult to say that one supports the troops, Campbell, when one’s definiton of “support” amounts to abandoning the democratic process itself, the very thing our troops swore to defend with their lives, in favor of blind loyalty to an administration now proven to have betrayed our trust.
Want to support our troops in their duty? Do your own as a citizen: question the decisions made in our names that the troops cannot, the corrupt BushCo. ones that are costing way too many their lives.
Campbell, you seem like such a level-headed young lady–HOW CAN YOU SPOUT SUCH NONSENSE? Any True American with half a brain tied behind their back can tell you that YES, you can be against the Iraq INVASION-NOT war and also NOT be against the troops. Get the troops out of harm’s way and OUT OF Iraq if you are truly NOT against them! SAVE OUR SERVICEMEN FROM FURTHER INJURY AND DEATH–That’s BEING FOR THE AMERICAN TROOPS, Campbell–WHAT THE HELL’S THE MATTER WITH YOU, BITCH?
Mrs. Senor is a White House shill; she’s married to former Pentagon (Shock and Awe) spokesman, Dan Senor, who now works for FOX.
She is no different from a few other pretty faces on TV spreading the propaganda and talking points — the only requirement is that they have makeup on their faces and air in their heads.
Do we really need to say this again? OK- we’re NOT against the soldiers, we’re AGAINST THE WAR!!!
the idiots who come up with this kind of crap(antiwar = antisoldier) are usually cowards who NEVER served themselves(Rush Limpdick,O’Leilly. tranny Coulter, Savage, Kristol, et al)
Send NBC a letter. Be polite but don’t forget to point out that Mrs Senor repeated the same talking point that is being used by the GOP in the House during the escalation debate.
I don’t support the troops that rape, murder, taunt children, and use their place of power to be sadists. I know that’s not the majority of troops, but it is a sizeable number based on the sheer volume of different videos, photos, and interviews I’ve seen.
Evidence of the domestic “surge” of PR and fabricated news items, and troll activity. This is the effect of a PR company being told to “get on the goddamned stick” by some loudmouth administration insider. The PR guys respond by saturating news outlets with press releases, fed to them by “anonymous pentagon officials”; getting the “experts” their talent branch handles represents more airtime; and sending out operatives to cozy up to rubes like Campbell Brown, who unconsciously parrot the official-sounding-bullshit they get fed.
re: #18 Yup, it is pretty clear that ignoring rachel is the best way to go. Don’t respond just cut and paste and send to TP if you need to do something.
We can write all the letters we want. it doesn’t make a dent. The House of Representatives of the United States of America must immediately draw up articles of Impeachment. This is the only way to bypass the media and the control power and force the administration to shift its focus and force it to devote all of its energy to oppose the articles.
Otherwise, we are a doomed country with zero respect worldwide.
.
so, is the hillary connection so strong that you can’t post the whole quote and the context?
During a discussion of Sen. Barack Obama’s (D-IL) comment that “[w]e have now … seen over 3,000 lives of the bravest young Americans wasted” in Iraq, co-host Campbell Brown said on the February 13 edition of NBC’s Today:”It’s tough for Democrats especially on this issue because — especially Obama, who’s not only opposed to the war, but has set a timeline for bringing troops home. It’s difficult to say that you’re against the war and at the same time not say that you’re against the troops.”
i just want to say that i am disappointed that barack obama felt the need to apologize for saying that american lives have been wasted,
when that’s exactly what has happened… so many lives, wasted…
we need someone like him to “tell it like it is”…
i’m truly sorry, but that’s just how it is…
.
it is difficult to show how going to war supports our troops without an airtight reason to go to war.
From the beginning, the best support we could show for our troops was to demand the US get out of Iraq. We failed as a country. We even reelected the two top scum.
What a pyramid of lies they constructed.
“It’s difficult to say that you’re against the war and at the same time not say that you’re against the troops.”
*************************************
BULL — as in, that’s 100% Grade-A bovine excrement. Saying that you have to support the war if you support the troops is like saying that you have to support the President if you support the country — but the troops and the war are not one and the same, any more than the President and the country are one and the same. It’s perfectly possible to support the troops without supporting the war because the government always has the option of choosing not to go to war — but once the decision to go to war has been made, the troops do not really have the option of choosing not to fight in it. Although I admire people such as Ehren Watada who have refused to serve for reasons of conscience, I also recognize that they pay an extremely high price for it — one considerably higher than most people feel themselves able to pay. I have been opposed to this war from the very beginning, but I support the troops because they are not the ones who made the decision to go to war — that was Bush’s decision, and it’s been blindingly apparent all along to anyone who’s been paying attention that absolutely nothing was going to stop him from attacking Iraq. How can anyone not support the troops when they are the ones who are paying the price for Bush’s obsession?
If Ms. Brown thinks it’s so important to support the troops, then perhaps she should be asking President Bush what he’s done for the troops lately. What he’s done for the troops is not put enough of them on the ground to get the job done, considering the fact that he was so determined to do it. What he’s done is to neglect to supply adequate equipment, to the point that soldiers were being forced to scour landfills for anything they could salvage. What he’s done is cut funds to the Veteran’s Administration, which makes it more difficult for those who are wounded to reintegrate into civilian life. Why isn’t she asking about that?
Yeah, Katy, I feel the same. I appreciate why he felt the need to apologize – aside from the press eating him alive (damn that liberal media) – he didn’t want to inadvertently insult families who are clinging to any thread of hope that their soldier didn’t die in vain –
But the fact is as you say, there was no noble cause for this war, the lives have been taken as sacrifice for the boy-king’s ego, his cabal’s need for power, and the bank accounts for them and all their cronies.
Did they start this war for oil because they felt we’d need the control as the oil supplies become more depleted over time – some will defend them in that way. But all the lives, money and effort would have better been used in the pursuit of alternative and renewable energy sources. So that argument is fallacious.
This was a power trip for them all and our soldiers pay the price with their lives, the rest of us pay with our money into the foreseeable future.
I, too, am sorry. Sorry they have died. Sorry we were lied to. Sorry we have a warmongering idiot in the White House. Sorry our congress is incompetent. Sorry that I don’t even recognize America any more.
It’s difficult to say you support cutting veterans’ benefits, sending troops 10,000 miles from their friends and families to get shot at, and failing to supply adequate body armor and armored vehicles, while also saying you support the troops.
Bush is planning to send the additional 21000 to Iraq with less than the equipment they need. Just like the first time around.
He will also deny them what they need when they come home.
Is that how Bush supports the troops?
Damn him to hell.
Campbell Brown has long been a Bush supporter and I credit her with my total disgust and with my inability to watch the Today Show any more. I used to watch it all the time, but cannot stomach the corporate bullshit they love to hand out in neat, little dessert dishes.
To equate the two notions that one cannot be AGAINST THE WAR and FOR THE TROOPS is shallow, ignorant and quite frankly, shows her basic roots from whence she has come. A pig with pearls and lipstick is still just a pig, after all. I hate saying that too, because I really like cute little pigs. I just don’t like the Brown newscaster variety of corporate *hore.
“It’s difficult to say that you’re against the war and at the same time not say that you’re against the troops.â€
this sentiment implies “the troops” support the war, which has been shown to not be the case for the majority of soldiers.
Most soldiers, who in fact are regular people would have to be nuts to support meaningless war such as the chimperors excellent iraqi adventure. Most troops just follow orders. They fight when they’re ordered to. It takes a real deluded moron to infer from troops following orders that they in any way support the purpose of their being ordered to fight. (But delusional moronosity is what our delightful wingnuttery is all about.)
.
Since day one the sorry ass bushco has tried to tie themselves to the troops with everything but the support they needed. It has always been “if you don’t support King George the Dumb, you don’t support the troops.”
I will compromise with the bastards, the leader of which is KGtD. You leave the volunteers over there and support the hell out of them. Let those that want to, come home to us and we will support our troops here. I will wager any number you want to put up to a glass of warm pee that I will have more troops to support than you. Just make out the check to the US Treasury to cover some of what KGtD has stolen from us true AMERICANS.
It’s difficult to CONTINUE THE WAR and get re-elected because the VAST MAJORITY OF AMERICANS want OUT.
As soon as the politician realize it, they’ll change their positions…but it’ll be too late for them and for the many more who will die needlessly in this senseless war.
Bringing the troops home – each one safe, well and uninjured is supporting the troops and the only way to do that is to end that f’ing quagmire that is Bush’s war created by deceit and deception. Cambell joins the others like Mrs. Greenspan while NBC does not disclose their relationships with the current administration.
I am a servicemember serving in Iraq. I am not against myself, therefore, I must not be against servicemembers. As a matter of fact, I am not only very fond of myself and fully advocate support of myself, I am also fond of the other servicemembers with which I am acquainted and I fully advocate support of those individuals as well.
The Republicans and their echo chamber wish for all to think that winning a war launched on made up evidence to overthrow a regime that sits on the worlds fourth largest supply of oil is all about the troops needing to stay in the company of Middle Easterners that now loathe any form of American presence. You see, to the Republik Party, staying in harms way is the only way to be victorious.
“It’s difficult to say that you’re against the war and at the same time not say that you’re against the troops.â€
I can understand that it might be difficult for Campbell and those like her that can’t understand the dichotomy of the issues presented, but for those of us capable of intelligent thought it’s quite easy.
HYPOCRISY is the only way you can be against an illegal war and still support the criminals who are participating in it, and INTELLECT has nothing to do with it!
Flip the script and have Iraq launch an unproved attack on the United States.
Are we to assume that you would have no problem with the Iraqi people supporting their troops, who are killing our citizens, and posioning our land with shells made out of radioactive waste?
Do you understand that when a soldier deploys, it’s not to Club Med or Disneyland? The soldier does not get a choice as to what he or she does.
Do you understand that you look like a total moron for attacking a soldier here on this forum?
Do you understand that that soldier is a better person than you ever would or could be?
Do you understand that your vitriol should be saved for the war criminals who put our troops in that horrible situation?
Do you understand that I will be on you like white on rice each and every time you have the audacity to criticize a soldier in such a shocking fashion?
Do you understand that you should be ashamed of yourself? I doubt it.
Phread, PLEASE be careful. Please also know that morons like “criticalthinker” feel as though they must complain about things because they are ineffectual in their own little lives.
God bless you, and please take care. And please know that we are trying like crazy to get you soldiers home.
In direct answer to your question, I asked to come to Iraq to support the reconstruction effort and do what I can to improve the situation for a nation that has been plunged into chaos.
However, even if I’d been ordered to come to Iraq as one of our many ground troops, I’d have come. I took an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States and to obey the orders of the President of the United States and the officers appointed over me. I take that oath very seriously. Disagreeing with the President’s foreign policy doesn’t give me the right to arbitrarily declare this war an ‘illegal order.’
I do understand that invading a non-aggressive nation without provocation is against the UN charter. As it turns out, I’m not a member of the UN peacekeeping force. I am a member of the United States military and while as a citizen, my responsibility is to the world as well as my nation, as a U.S. servicemember, my responsibility is to my country. My responsibility is to obey the lawful orders of my superiors and do everything in my power to do the best I can for the people of the United States as well as the people of Iraq within the confines of those orders. And that’s what I and tens of thousands of others here are doing every day.
The President has the power to mobilize military actions. Congress approved our invasion of Iraq. It’s a legal war. Was it sold under false pretense? Yes. Was it a really, really bad idea? Yes. Was it illegal? No. If a superior ordered me to shoot an unarmed civilian, that would be an illegal order. That would be an order I am bound by duty and oath to disobey. Telling me to leave my family and come to Iraq to support a military action authorized by the President and by Congress isn’t even close to an illegal order.
I was not drafted. I was not coerced into the military. I joined the military with full knowledge that the day may someday come that my government would order me to support a military action with which I disagree. That day came, but my responsibilities and my oaths did not conveniently cease to exist based on my personal views.
I have been given the opportunity to come here and mitigate some of the damage done by my elected officials. I am extremely grateful for that opportunity because it’s allowed me to affect positive change for average Iraqi citizens that are trapped between warring factions that are willing to kill as many innocent civilians as necessary to further their own agendas. It’s allowed me to do something other than sit back at home writing my representatives in Congress and post to blogs about how horrible it is that we invaded Iraq.
If you truly believe that the soldiers here who are striving to carve relationships with the local population are committing crimes against humanity, you are mistaken. If you believe the efforts to protect and defend the common citizen from their own leaders constitutes a crime against humanity, you are mistaken. If you believe that my efforts to rebuild the infrastructure of a war torn nation are crimes against humanity, you are mistaken. Not every Soldier, Sailor, Airman and Marine in Iraq is a faceless monster mindlessly creating havoc and destruction. Most of us are here trying to help. And while what we do may pale in comparison to the sacrifices made while throwing out blanket and uninformed judgments from behind an internet pseudonym, we’re certainly doing our best.
Ah, Campbell Brown, the image portrayed in the move “Network” made flesh. Why wouldn’t anyone so stupid be incapable of recognizing their own biases? Ignorance delivered by a pretty face.
Poor Campbell Brown. Your just another one of the talking heads that serve no real purpose. Why don’t you just quit and give us all a break. I’m sure there’s something more constructive you could be doing with your time.
Like I’ve said before, support for an ill-advised Iraq stategy and support for our brave troops are two mutually exclusive concepts. What’s so confusing about that? Probably the fact that a majority of the populace of this country doesn’t have much in area of grey matter. Hence, they buy all the blabber on the television set without much critical thinking.
Since 9/11, this country really has had a hard time getting a grip. We know what needs to be done. Going after terrorists using an intelligent approach. It doesn’t help when the leader of our country, and his side kick, are hell-bent on reshaping the middle east to take advantage of their resources. Which, sadly, is really what it’s all about.
Bin Laden…why go after him? Dear leader and side kick need him as part of the fear factor to continue their great campain. And besides, he’s got no oil in his back pocket!
Phread01; Go back and read the UN charter, the Nuremberg rulings, and the Kellogg-Briandt treaty, then tell me again that because Congress gave its OK use of force, it is a legal war. The aforementioned treaties were ratified by the US making them US law. Which we broke by an unprovoked invasion/occupation of Iraq.
The defendents here are not on trial because they lost the war, but because they started it-Robert Jackson, Supreme Justice of the United States -chief prosecuter at the Nuremberg trial.
The right uses stooges placed in the proper place to spew their drivel just like movies put products in conspicuous places for that exact reason. Is it really the news that Mrs. Senor delivers? After all Rush L. is the Nation’s Anchorman, and opinion comes first doesn’t it?Un founded rhetorical political propaganda, sorry that’s not the news for me.
“Phread01; Go back and read the UN charter, the Nuremberg rulings, and the Kellogg-Briandt treaty, then tell me again that because Congress gave its OK use of force, it is a legal war. The aforementioned treaties were ratified by the US making them US law. Which we broke by an unprovoked invasion/occupation of Iraq.”
Hey, Phread, I have an even better idea. Take that effort and concentration and mental capacity and use it for STAYING SAFE and COMING HOME TO US ALIVE.
I will criticize this war on the top of my lungs, but I will never criticize the men and women who are fighting it. Never.
God bless you. I will remember you in my prayers, soldier.
It’s good to hear from you and I hope you and yours are safe. The “critical thinkers” who believes that the military should mutiny en-mass are living in a fantasy world. It is wrong to blame the troops for not ending this war. It is not their place. It is every citizens duty to bring this war to an end and a soldier is in a an especially bad place to do that.
The blame is ALL on those bastards that lied us into Iraq, from this war’s “on the cheap” beginnings with the most rosy of forecasts through its disasterous mismanagement. The blame is on those who poorly supply our troops even now, who cut their benefits, who want to cut even more in coming years while at the same time requiring more and more from them. This war has been used steal from both the Iraqi’s and the American people and as great as that financial theft is the greatest cost is the ruined lives of people from both nations.
Most of us who come here to speak and discuss are in the “reality based community.” As you can see there are plenty of trolling dissenters. They often don’t make much sense but it’s because they have an agenda. That is to protect Bush’s agenda and reality be dammned.
There is nothing more real then your experiences in Iraq.
I hope that your back soon and once back, I hope your back for good.
I cannot believe that these airheads continue to be employed when they constantly exhibit such stupidity! As I have done this morning to CBS regarding Barbara Starr’s statement that the US certainly does have intell tying Iranian weapons to Iranian leaders — a position net even supported by the White House — I would tell NBC that I would not be looking to their network for intelligent, factual observations from Campbell Brown that is for sure! Another candidate for Faux Snooze I’d say. At least, when you tune in to that network, you know exactly the line of ideology you are going to hear; not often relating to factual information at all!
Funny — Trent Lott said it was possible to support the troops but be against the American entry into Kosovo when Clinton was president. Why was it possible then, but not now?
Apparently, Campbell Brown has digested the “Top 10 GOP Sound Bites.”
February 13th, 2007 at 8:04 pmAh, the lovely Mrs Dan Senor, Republican strategist, frequent contributor to Fox “News.”
*gag*
February 13th, 2007 at 8:09 pmThis is the primary failing of the get out of Iraq Issue. To let people like Ms. Brown get away with making the absurd statement that if you don’t support the mission you don’t support the troops. What is not supporting the troops is putting them in an untenable situation, such as being in the middle of a civil war.
February 13th, 2007 at 8:09 pmIdiot, partisan hack.
February 13th, 2007 at 8:15 pmI’m so sick of the whole “against the troops” meme.
How the hell can someone actually be “against the troops”? It’s idiotic to even have to qualify your statement “I’m against the war” with the statement “but of course, I support the troops”.
The fact that this is even an issue shows just how successful the neocon spin machine has been in warping perceptions.
If you really want to know who’s “against the troops”, you needn’t look any further than the Commander-in-Chimp, who has kept soldiers in the field far too long, neglected to equip them properly, and added the insult of slashing their benefits.
February 13th, 2007 at 8:15 pm1. The war is lost.
2. More troops will die unnecessarily if they stay
How is that being against the troops?
Here is what the GOP is really saying.
1. The war isn’t lost ( Because we can’t take responsibility for the loss- we need to stall for time. We have to try to pass that buck to the future or to the Dems …SOMEHOW)
2. More troops will die unnecessarily if they stay ( we don’t care about that)
Here is what I say: How DARE they play games with our troops lives? Campbell Brown is a propogandist. Once again, the simple GOP equation for fighting their opponents…… Blame on your enemy exactly what you are doing or being accused of.
February 13th, 2007 at 8:16 pmHave we caught on yet? What hasn’t this talking point ( above) been crushed? It’s been around too long.
Ignorant comments like this just imply that people join the military to be killed arbitrarily. That isn’t very supportive of our troops.
February 13th, 2007 at 8:18 pmOkay! Okay!
I confess!
I HATE the troops!
They’re doing a lousy job in Iraq!
They’re obviously not up to the mission…
…so let’s FIRE them…
…and bring their a*ses out of Iraq TODAY!
February 13th, 2007 at 8:25 pmThis is how much Campbell Brown’s masters care about our troops.
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/02/13/balanced-budget-by-2012/
February 13th, 2007 at 8:28 pmIt’s also difficult to say that one supports the troops, Campbell, when one’s definiton of “support” amounts to abandoning the democratic process itself, the very thing our troops swore to defend with their lives, in favor of blind loyalty to an administration now proven to have betrayed our trust.
Want to support our troops in their duty? Do your own as a citizen: question the decisions made in our names that the troops cannot, the corrupt BushCo. ones that are costing way too many their lives.
February 13th, 2007 at 8:30 pmGive the girl a scab sandwich and a glass of pus.
February 13th, 2007 at 8:36 pmI am so against the troops that had my radical ideas been acted upon 4 years ago there would still be 3,000 more American soldiers alive today.
-GSD
February 13th, 2007 at 8:36 pmCampbell, you seem like such a level-headed young lady–HOW CAN YOU SPOUT SUCH NONSENSE? Any True American with half a brain tied behind their back can tell you that YES, you can be against the Iraq INVASION-NOT war and also NOT be against the troops. Get the troops out of harm’s way and OUT OF Iraq if you are truly NOT against them! SAVE OUR SERVICEMEN FROM FURTHER INJURY AND DEATH–That’s BEING FOR THE AMERICAN TROOPS, Campbell–WHAT THE HELL’S THE MATTER WITH YOU, BITCH?
February 13th, 2007 at 8:37 pmMrs. Senor is a White House shill; she’s married to former Pentagon (Shock and Awe) spokesman, Dan Senor, who now works for FOX.
February 13th, 2007 at 8:38 pmShe is no different from a few other pretty faces on TV spreading the propaganda and talking points — the only requirement is that they have makeup on their faces and air in their heads.
Do we really need to say this again? OK- we’re NOT against the soldiers, we’re AGAINST THE WAR!!!
the idiots who come up with this kind of crap(antiwar = antisoldier) are usually cowards who NEVER served themselves(Rush Limpdick,O’Leilly. tranny Coulter, Savage, Kristol, et al)
February 13th, 2007 at 8:48 pmIsn’t “broadcast journalist” just a euphemism for “airhead?”
February 13th, 2007 at 8:50 pmSend NBC a letter. Be polite but don’t forget to point out that Mrs Senor repeated the same talking point that is being used by the GOP in the House during the escalation debate.
February 13th, 2007 at 8:51 pmI don’t support the troops that rape, murder, taunt children, and use their place of power to be sadists. I know that’s not the majority of troops, but it is a sizeable number based on the sheer volume of different videos, photos, and interviews I’ve seen.
February 13th, 2007 at 8:55 pmEvidence of the domestic “surge” of PR and fabricated news items, and troll activity. This is the effect of a PR company being told to “get on the goddamned stick” by some loudmouth administration insider. The PR guys respond by saturating news outlets with press releases, fed to them by “anonymous pentagon officials”; getting the “experts” their talent branch handles represents more airtime; and sending out operatives to cozy up to rubes like Campbell Brown, who unconsciously parrot the official-sounding-bullshit they get fed.
Witness the “last throes” of a “rogue regime”.
February 13th, 2007 at 8:58 pmWhy can TP zap on topic post that happen to use the F word but crap like rachel’s and the peodophile post aren’t removed?
February 13th, 2007 at 9:00 pmre: #18 Yup, it is pretty clear that ignoring rachel is the best way to go. Don’t respond just cut and paste and send to TP if you need to do something.
February 13th, 2007 at 9:01 pmreally good FRONTLINE on PBS right now…
February 13th, 2007 at 9:05 pmabout the plame case and journalism…
the ties to the build up to war, etc…
We can write all the letters we want. it doesn’t make a dent. The House of Representatives of the United States of America must immediately draw up articles of Impeachment. This is the only way to bypass the media and the control power and force the administration to shift its focus and force it to devote all of its energy to oppose the articles.
February 13th, 2007 at 9:15 pmOtherwise, we are a doomed country with zero respect worldwide.
just wrote a post and it wasn’t posted. All I said was- the House should iniate articles of Impeachment.
February 13th, 2007 at 9:18 pm???????????????????
.
so, is the hillary connection so strong that you can’t post the whole quote and the context?
During a discussion of Sen. Barack Obama’s (D-IL) comment that “[w]e have now … seen over 3,000 lives of the bravest young Americans wasted” in Iraq, co-host Campbell Brown said on the February 13 edition of NBC’s Today:”It’s tough for Democrats especially on this issue because — especially Obama, who’s not only opposed to the war, but has set a timeline for bringing troops home. It’s difficult to say that you’re against the war and at the same time not say that you’re against the troops.”
i just want to say that i am disappointed that barack obama felt the need to apologize for saying that american lives have been wasted,
February 13th, 2007 at 9:18 pmwhen that’s exactly what has happened… so many lives, wasted…
we need someone like him to “tell it like it is”…
i’m truly sorry, but that’s just how it is…
.
it is difficult to show how going to war supports our troops without an airtight reason to go to war.
February 13th, 2007 at 9:25 pmFrom the beginning, the best support we could show for our troops was to demand the US get out of Iraq. We failed as a country. We even reelected the two top scum.
What a pyramid of lies they constructed.
That’s right, ’cause it’s not like our command structure distinguishes between the civilian policymakers and the military apparatus or anything…
It’s only “difficult” for those who have absolutely NO awareness of the history of this nation!
February 13th, 2007 at 9:25 pmWho is dying in this needless war? The troops.
Who are we trying to save by ending the war? The troops.
See, Campbell? Against the war, for the troops. Easy.
February 13th, 2007 at 9:26 pm“It’s difficult to say that you’re against the war and at the same time not say that you’re against the troops.”
*************************************
BULL — as in, that’s 100% Grade-A bovine excrement. Saying that you have to support the war if you support the troops is like saying that you have to support the President if you support the country — but the troops and the war are not one and the same, any more than the President and the country are one and the same. It’s perfectly possible to support the troops without supporting the war because the government always has the option of choosing not to go to war — but once the decision to go to war has been made, the troops do not really have the option of choosing not to fight in it. Although I admire people such as Ehren Watada who have refused to serve for reasons of conscience, I also recognize that they pay an extremely high price for it — one considerably higher than most people feel themselves able to pay. I have been opposed to this war from the very beginning, but I support the troops because they are not the ones who made the decision to go to war — that was Bush’s decision, and it’s been blindingly apparent all along to anyone who’s been paying attention that absolutely nothing was going to stop him from attacking Iraq. How can anyone not support the troops when they are the ones who are paying the price for Bush’s obsession?
If Ms. Brown thinks it’s so important to support the troops, then perhaps she should be asking President Bush what he’s done for the troops lately. What he’s done for the troops is not put enough of them on the ground to get the job done, considering the fact that he was so determined to do it. What he’s done is to neglect to supply adequate equipment, to the point that soldiers were being forced to scour landfills for anything they could salvage. What he’s done is cut funds to the Veteran’s Administration, which makes it more difficult for those who are wounded to reintegrate into civilian life. Why isn’t she asking about that?
February 13th, 2007 at 9:29 pmYeah, Katy, I feel the same. I appreciate why he felt the need to apologize – aside from the press eating him alive (damn that liberal media) – he didn’t want to inadvertently insult families who are clinging to any thread of hope that their soldier didn’t die in vain –
February 13th, 2007 at 9:32 pmBut the fact is as you say, there was no noble cause for this war, the lives have been taken as sacrifice for the boy-king’s ego, his cabal’s need for power, and the bank accounts for them and all their cronies.
Did they start this war for oil because they felt we’d need the control as the oil supplies become more depleted over time – some will defend them in that way. But all the lives, money and effort would have better been used in the pursuit of alternative and renewable energy sources. So that argument is fallacious.
This was a power trip for them all and our soldiers pay the price with their lives, the rest of us pay with our money into the foreseeable future.
I, too, am sorry. Sorry they have died. Sorry we were lied to. Sorry we have a warmongering idiot in the White House. Sorry our congress is incompetent. Sorry that I don’t even recognize America any more.
It’s difficult to say you support cutting veterans’ benefits, sending troops 10,000 miles from their friends and families to get shot at, and failing to supply adequate body armor and armored vehicles, while also saying you support the troops.
February 13th, 2007 at 9:33 pmFine post, bluestocking.
February 13th, 2007 at 9:34 pmBush is planning to send the additional 21000 to Iraq with less than the equipment they need. Just like the first time around.
February 13th, 2007 at 9:37 pmHe will also deny them what they need when they come home.
Is that how Bush supports the troops?
Damn him to hell.
Campbell Brown has long been a Bush supporter and I credit her with my total disgust and with my inability to watch the Today Show any more. I used to watch it all the time, but cannot stomach the corporate bullshit they love to hand out in neat, little dessert dishes.
February 13th, 2007 at 9:41 pmTo equate the two notions that one cannot be AGAINST THE WAR and FOR THE TROOPS is shallow, ignorant and quite frankly, shows her basic roots from whence she has come. A pig with pearls and lipstick is still just a pig, after all. I hate saying that too, because I really like cute little pigs. I just don’t like the Brown newscaster variety of corporate *hore.
“It’s difficult to say that you’re against the war and at the same time not say that you’re against the troops.â€
this sentiment implies “the troops” support the war, which has been shown to not be the case for the majority of soldiers.
Most soldiers, who in fact are regular people would have to be nuts to support meaningless war such as the chimperors excellent iraqi adventure. Most troops just follow orders. They fight when they’re ordered to. It takes a real deluded moron to infer from troops following orders that they in any way support the purpose of their being ordered to fight. (But delusional moronosity is what our delightful wingnuttery is all about.)
February 13th, 2007 at 9:49 pm.
My brother is deployed right now, over in Baghdad.
For some Republican to state that my being against the war is my being against my brother is the very definition of obscene.
Luke: Right on. Absolutely.
February 13th, 2007 at 9:51 pmSince day one the sorry ass bushco has tried to tie themselves to the troops with everything but the support they needed. It has always been “if you don’t support King George the Dumb, you don’t support the troops.”
I will compromise with the bastards, the leader of which is KGtD. You leave the volunteers over there and support the hell out of them. Let those that want to, come home to us and we will support our troops here. I will wager any number you want to put up to a glass of warm pee that I will have more troops to support than you. Just make out the check to the US Treasury to cover some of what KGtD has stolen from us true AMERICANS.
February 13th, 2007 at 10:13 pmTry these words on for size, Repukelicants:
SUPPORT THE TROOPS
NOT THE WAR
See, that was easy.
February 13th, 2007 at 10:30 pm“It is difficult to talk shit and at the same time not choke on my chewing gum.” – Today show co-host Campbell Brown.
February 13th, 2007 at 10:39 pmIt’s difficult to CONTINUE THE WAR and get re-elected because the VAST MAJORITY OF AMERICANS want OUT.
As soon as the politician realize it, they’ll change their positions…but it’ll be too late for them and for the many more who will die needlessly in this senseless war.
February 13th, 2007 at 11:38 pmBringing the troops home – each one safe, well and uninjured is supporting the troops and the only way to do that is to end that f’ing quagmire that is Bush’s war created by deceit and deception. Cambell joins the others like Mrs. Greenspan while NBC does not disclose their relationships with the current administration.
February 13th, 2007 at 11:54 pmHow easy the camera makes words.
February 14th, 2007 at 12:54 amIt’s actually not hard at all.
I am a servicemember serving in Iraq. I am not against myself, therefore, I must not be against servicemembers. As a matter of fact, I am not only very fond of myself and fully advocate support of myself, I am also fond of the other servicemembers with which I am acquainted and I fully advocate support of those individuals as well.
And I am against this war.
See how easy that is?
February 14th, 2007 at 1:17 amThe Republicans and their echo chamber wish for all to think that winning a war launched on made up evidence to overthrow a regime that sits on the worlds fourth largest supply of oil is all about the troops needing to stay in the company of Middle Easterners that now loathe any form of American presence. You see, to the Republik Party, staying in harms way is the only way to be victorious.
February 14th, 2007 at 1:27 am“It’s difficult to say that you’re against the war and at the same time not say that you’re against the troops.â€
I can understand that it might be difficult for Campbell and those like her that can’t understand the dichotomy of the issues presented, but for those of us capable of intelligent thought it’s quite easy.
February 14th, 2007 at 1:29 amre#46 Phread01
If one were “against” the Iraq war, why would one serve in Iraq?
When Muhamad Ali said he was “against” the Vietnam war, he backed up his talk with actions by not going.
Do you understand the Iraq war was a violation of the UN charter, because Iraq had not attacked nor was in the process of attcking us?
Do you understand that you are committing crimes against humanity by participating?
February 14th, 2007 at 1:48 amre#47 bashful
HYPOCRISY is the only way you can be against an illegal war and still support the criminals who are participating in it, and INTELLECT has nothing to do with it!
Flip the script and have Iraq launch an unproved attack on the United States.
Are we to assume that you would have no problem with the Iraqi people supporting their troops, who are killing our citizens, and posioning our land with shells made out of radioactive waste?
February 14th, 2007 at 1:55 amTo Criticalthinker:
Do you understand that when a soldier deploys, it’s not to Club Med or Disneyland? The soldier does not get a choice as to what he or she does.
Do you understand that you look like a total moron for attacking a soldier here on this forum?
Do you understand that that soldier is a better person than you ever would or could be?
Do you understand that your vitriol should be saved for the war criminals who put our troops in that horrible situation?
Do you understand that I will be on you like white on rice each and every time you have the audacity to criticize a soldier in such a shocking fashion?
Do you understand that you should be ashamed of yourself? I doubt it.
Phread, PLEASE be careful. Please also know that morons like “criticalthinker” feel as though they must complain about things because they are ineffectual in their own little lives.
God bless you, and please take care. And please know that we are trying like crazy to get you soldiers home.
February 14th, 2007 at 2:15 amCriticalthinker,
In direct answer to your question, I asked to come to Iraq to support the reconstruction effort and do what I can to improve the situation for a nation that has been plunged into chaos.
However, even if I’d been ordered to come to Iraq as one of our many ground troops, I’d have come. I took an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States and to obey the orders of the President of the United States and the officers appointed over me. I take that oath very seriously. Disagreeing with the President’s foreign policy doesn’t give me the right to arbitrarily declare this war an ‘illegal order.’
I do understand that invading a non-aggressive nation without provocation is against the UN charter. As it turns out, I’m not a member of the UN peacekeeping force. I am a member of the United States military and while as a citizen, my responsibility is to the world as well as my nation, as a U.S. servicemember, my responsibility is to my country. My responsibility is to obey the lawful orders of my superiors and do everything in my power to do the best I can for the people of the United States as well as the people of Iraq within the confines of those orders. And that’s what I and tens of thousands of others here are doing every day.
The President has the power to mobilize military actions. Congress approved our invasion of Iraq. It’s a legal war. Was it sold under false pretense? Yes. Was it a really, really bad idea? Yes. Was it illegal? No. If a superior ordered me to shoot an unarmed civilian, that would be an illegal order. That would be an order I am bound by duty and oath to disobey. Telling me to leave my family and come to Iraq to support a military action authorized by the President and by Congress isn’t even close to an illegal order.
I was not drafted. I was not coerced into the military. I joined the military with full knowledge that the day may someday come that my government would order me to support a military action with which I disagree. That day came, but my responsibilities and my oaths did not conveniently cease to exist based on my personal views.
I have been given the opportunity to come here and mitigate some of the damage done by my elected officials. I am extremely grateful for that opportunity because it’s allowed me to affect positive change for average Iraqi citizens that are trapped between warring factions that are willing to kill as many innocent civilians as necessary to further their own agendas. It’s allowed me to do something other than sit back at home writing my representatives in Congress and post to blogs about how horrible it is that we invaded Iraq.
If you truly believe that the soldiers here who are striving to carve relationships with the local population are committing crimes against humanity, you are mistaken. If you believe the efforts to protect and defend the common citizen from their own leaders constitutes a crime against humanity, you are mistaken. If you believe that my efforts to rebuild the infrastructure of a war torn nation are crimes against humanity, you are mistaken. Not every Soldier, Sailor, Airman and Marine in Iraq is a faceless monster mindlessly creating havoc and destruction. Most of us are here trying to help. And while what we do may pale in comparison to the sacrifices made while throwing out blanket and uninformed judgments from behind an internet pseudonym, we’re certainly doing our best.
February 14th, 2007 at 5:22 amAh, Campbell Brown, the image portrayed in the move “Network” made flesh. Why wouldn’t anyone so stupid be incapable of recognizing their own biases? Ignorance delivered by a pretty face.
February 14th, 2007 at 7:21 amPoor Campbell Brown. Your just another one of the talking heads that serve no real purpose. Why don’t you just quit and give us all a break. I’m sure there’s something more constructive you could be doing with your time.
Like I’ve said before, support for an ill-advised Iraq stategy and support for our brave troops are two mutually exclusive concepts. What’s so confusing about that? Probably the fact that a majority of the populace of this country doesn’t have much in area of grey matter. Hence, they buy all the blabber on the television set without much critical thinking.
Since 9/11, this country really has had a hard time getting a grip. We know what needs to be done. Going after terrorists using an intelligent approach. It doesn’t help when the leader of our country, and his side kick, are hell-bent on reshaping the middle east to take advantage of their resources. Which, sadly, is really what it’s all about.
Bin Laden…why go after him? Dear leader and side kick need him as part of the fear factor to continue their great campain. And besides, he’s got no oil in his back pocket!
February 14th, 2007 at 7:23 amOh it’s EZ when they have criminal records.
February 14th, 2007 at 7:33 amI’m against the war, I have long hair, I drive a beat up old car…
Hmmmm, HEY! I’m a hippie!
February 14th, 2007 at 8:36 amPhread01; Go back and read the UN charter, the Nuremberg rulings, and the Kellogg-Briandt treaty, then tell me again that because Congress gave its OK use of force, it is a legal war. The aforementioned treaties were ratified by the US making them US law. Which we broke by an unprovoked invasion/occupation of Iraq.
The defendents here are not on trial because they lost the war, but because they started it-Robert Jackson, Supreme Justice of the United States -chief prosecuter at the Nuremberg trial.
February 14th, 2007 at 8:53 amThe right uses stooges placed in the proper place to spew their drivel just like movies put products in conspicuous places for that exact reason. Is it really the news that Mrs. Senor delivers? After all Rush L. is the Nation’s Anchorman, and opinion comes first doesn’t it?Un founded rhetorical political propaganda, sorry that’s not the news for me.
February 14th, 2007 at 8:54 amProud Dem; welcome aboard my fellow hippie. Peace, flower power.
February 14th, 2007 at 8:55 amComment by rachel ” the rich jew ” kinnardi
You know Rachel, mmmaybe Hitler had a point!!!!!:>)
February 14th, 2007 at 9:46 am“Phread01; Go back and read the UN charter, the Nuremberg rulings, and the Kellogg-Briandt treaty, then tell me again that because Congress gave its OK use of force, it is a legal war. The aforementioned treaties were ratified by the US making them US law. Which we broke by an unprovoked invasion/occupation of Iraq.”
Hey, Phread, I have an even better idea. Take that effort and concentration and mental capacity and use it for STAYING SAFE and COMING HOME TO US ALIVE.
I will criticize this war on the top of my lungs, but I will never criticize the men and women who are fighting it. Never.
God bless you. I will remember you in my prayers, soldier.
February 14th, 2007 at 9:50 amThis was Campbell Brown’s Valentine to her boot licking, thieving Bushco hack Dan Senor. Kissy Kissy!
February 14th, 2007 at 10:27 amGet over supporting the troops already. Its a job now just like teaching school or any other career people choose to pursue.
February 14th, 2007 at 10:47 amPhread01
It’s good to hear from you and I hope you and yours are safe. The “critical thinkers” who believes that the military should mutiny en-mass are living in a fantasy world. It is wrong to blame the troops for not ending this war. It is not their place. It is every citizens duty to bring this war to an end and a soldier is in a an especially bad place to do that.
The blame is ALL on those bastards that lied us into Iraq, from this war’s “on the cheap” beginnings with the most rosy of forecasts through its disasterous mismanagement. The blame is on those who poorly supply our troops even now, who cut their benefits, who want to cut even more in coming years while at the same time requiring more and more from them. This war has been used steal from both the Iraqi’s and the American people and as great as that financial theft is the greatest cost is the ruined lives of people from both nations.
Most of us who come here to speak and discuss are in the “reality based community.” As you can see there are plenty of trolling dissenters. They often don’t make much sense but it’s because they have an agenda. That is to protect Bush’s agenda and reality be dammned.
There is nothing more real then your experiences in Iraq.
I hope that your back soon and once back, I hope your back for good.
February 14th, 2007 at 10:49 amI cannot believe that these airheads continue to be employed when they constantly exhibit such stupidity! As I have done this morning to CBS regarding Barbara Starr’s statement that the US certainly does have intell tying Iranian weapons to Iranian leaders — a position net even supported by the White House — I would tell NBC that I would not be looking to their network for intelligent, factual observations from Campbell Brown that is for sure! Another candidate for Faux Snooze I’d say. At least, when you tune in to that network, you know exactly the line of ideology you are going to hear; not often relating to factual information at all!
February 14th, 2007 at 10:52 amFunny — Trent Lott said it was possible to support the troops but be against the American entry into Kosovo when Clinton was president. Why was it possible then, but not now?
February 14th, 2007 at 11:01 am#59: I will criticize this war on the top of my lungs, but I will never criticize the men and women who are fighting it. Never.
I agree. If there are any other soldiers out there reading this, please know that there are a lot of us here stateside working hard to bring you home.
February 14th, 2007 at 11:11 amIf you support the troops, you must also support the meat grinder Bush put them in.
That would make a great Republican campaign slogan for ‘08.
February 14th, 2007 at 11:13 amI support the troops. I do not support the invasion and occupation of Iraq.
Hey, that wasn’t difficult at all!
February 14th, 2007 at 11:14 amIdiot, partisan hack.
Comment by Innocent Bystander — February 13, 2007
I say what he said.
February 14th, 2007 at 2:34 pmComment by Phread01 — February 14, 2007 @ 5:22 am
Well said, very well said.
Stay safe. Come home safe.
Semper Fi
February 14th, 2007 at 3:50 pmCause sending off our children to die in a pointless war is PRO-troops. Good job Campbell, you non-serving chickenhawk bitch.
February 14th, 2007 at 8:41 pm#45 I am not only very fond of myself and fully advocate support of myself
I love that statement. I am saying that I love it as only a hetero can say it. :)
February 14th, 2007 at 8:44 pmcheap flower
Good post. I am looking into these issues on my blog.
April 12th, 2008 at 6:14 pmPee Public Pee Public Pissing
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
April 13th, 2008 at 8:55 amMy Cracks and Serials
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
April 13th, 2008 at 9:18 pm