U.S. Military: Television Series ‘24′ Is Promoting Torture In The Ranks
U.S. Military: Television Series ‘24′ Is Promoting Torture In The Ranks
The U.S. military believes the television show 24 — which has become a foreign policy guide for the right — is sending inappropriate messages to the troops condoning torture:
The United States Military Academy at West Point yesterday confirmed that Brigadier General Patrick Finnegan recently travelled to California to meet producers of the show, broadcast on the Fox channel. He told them that promoting illegal behaviour in the series – apparently hugely popular among the US military – was having a damaging effect on young troops.
The New York Times noted, “Very little public scrutiny – much less protest – of violent interrogation is depicted” on the show. Numerous conservative pundits have cited 24 as a sanction for harsh interrogation practices. For example, radio host Laura Ingraham has said:
The average American out there loves the show 24. OK? They love Jack Bauer. They love 24. In my mind that’s close to a national referendum that it’s OK to use tough tactics against high-level Al Qaeda operatives as we’re going to get.
In a recent interview, actor Keifer Sutherland — who plays the lead character Jack Bauer on the show — noted, “You torture someone and they’ll basically tell you exactly what you want to hear, whether it’s true or not, if you put someone in enough pain,” he said. U.S. intelligence officials have said that torture is extremely ineffective. Lt. Gen. John Kimmons, the Army Deputy Chief of Staff for Intelligence has said, “I am absolutely convinced…no good intelligence is going to come from abusive practices. I think history tells us that. I think the empirical evidence of the last five years, hard years, tell us that.”
David Danzig, the head of Human Rights First — an anti-torture non-profit group — argued, “The image of the U.S. and its military [being involved in torture] is being affirmed” by the torture practices employed in the show. Undoubtedly, the Vice President’s sanction of tactics such as waterboarding also contributes to that image.
UPDATE: Tapped has more.
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Never saw the show, don’t plan on it. It’s a shame we use pop American culture to say its OK to torture.
February 13th, 2007 at 12:13 pmWhatever. Give em hell, Jack!!!
February 13th, 2007 at 12:15 pm/sarc
sutherland needs to reflect on the ramifications of his role…
ironic that his father played an iconic role in the anti war movie MASH…
now the son is promoting torture…
if all the stupid video games weren’t enough to desensitize these kids…
February 13th, 2007 at 12:16 pmUndoubtedly, the Vice President’s sanction of tactics such as waterboarding also contributes to that image.
On the other hand, the VP’s tactics such as snubbing the Sec/Def of Japan, whom we owe $600 Billion, contributes to the tarnished image that has become our Vice President. No one man in America’s history is more distrusted than Shooter.
February 13th, 2007 at 12:17 pmHe works hard on that image, and appears to be proud of it. Shrouded in secrecy and innuendo, he continues to spit in the face of the electorate. Any benefit realized from his long years of public service have long since been replaced by distrust, suspicion and outright rage by those he serves.
Why is this man still in the White House?
I hear Al and Tipper Gore and the censorship police coming.
February 13th, 2007 at 12:17 pmI used to watch this fervently.
February 13th, 2007 at 12:19 pmNow I use the time to play with my daughter and put her to bed.
A much more constructive use of our time.
And, as well, how long does anyone think it will be before a couple of suburban high school students get tired of watching ‘24′ on the tube and playing “Grand Theft Auto”; and start fixing up the basement for their own little war on terror episode…….
Is this the “culture” you are a warrior for, O’Reilly?
February 13th, 2007 at 12:20 pmHB – that’s a bit of a reach I’d expect from a dufus like Hendler, not from you…
February 13th, 2007 at 12:20 pmand don’t forget that chris matthews repeatedly referred to ‘24′ to justify torture during the brief period it was a topic of public discussion.
February 13th, 2007 at 12:23 pmIn my mind that’s close to a national referendum that it’s OK to use tough tactics against high-level Al Qaeda operatives as we’re going to get.
Wow!! Cool! Star Wars is popular too, so in her mind it’s also ok to cut their heads off with lightsabers!
Fucking idiot.
February 13th, 2007 at 12:23 pmI think it’s inspiring these school/office shooters, too.
February 13th, 2007 at 12:23 pm#5….
February 13th, 2007 at 12:25 pmClean yer ears out, it was
the Police are reuniting for a tour
Never saw the show, don’t plan on it. It’s a shame we use pop American culture to say its OK to torture.
Comment by ForTruth — February 13, 2007 @ 12:13 pm
February 13th, 2007 at 12:27 pm—————————————————————————————-
Amen! I never have and never will. It’s just one more tool for the right to use to promulgate the amorphous fear of brown people.
Is Anna Nicole still dead?
February 13th, 2007 at 12:35 pmI think The Unit is a better show.
February 13th, 2007 at 12:35 pmThe Gestapoization of America is almost complete.
All we need is another domestic terrorist incident and Newt Gingrich will have his fascist nation that he talks about.
-GSD
February 13th, 2007 at 12:35 pmHaha.. so if Laura Ingraham thinks that if Americans enjoy seeing a FICTIONAL show which glorifies torture, and makes it seem cool…
All the while watching it in the comfort of their own home, without experiencing in the real ramifications of torture, and being interrupted by countless advertisements offering you nice things…
So watching this FAKE show means it’s okay to use REAL torture (where weapons actually make contact with the body) in the REAL world (not on a movie set based on a script), against REAL people (people with real feelings, who are not pretending to be hurt)…
Which will in turn pose a REAL danger (which won’t conclude with a happy ending, fade to black, roll end credits) to our REAL troops (not actors, but real men in real danger)?
Laura lives in the same fictional world as the other viewers of 24. I wish she would understand the basic fundamental reality that what you see on fictional TV shows IS NOT REAL. And that copying the bad things you see on TV is a BAD IDEA.
February 13th, 2007 at 12:36 pmTorture has never been a reliable means of extracting information.
However, torture has always been an extremely reliable means of instilling terror.
Ask yourselves: who are the terrorists here?
February 13th, 2007 at 12:37 pmHey, it’s just a TV show, now they want to blame the soldiers behaviour on what they see on television ?? So they are mature enough to wield guns but not to see TV ..
February 13th, 2007 at 12:39 pm[Joel] Surnow, [the creator of "24"] once appeared as a guest on Laura Ingraham’s show; she told him that, while she was undergoing chemotherapy for breast cancer, “it was soothing to see Jack Bauer torture these terrorists, and I felt better.” Surnow joked, “We love to torture terrorists — it’s good for you!”
The late, great American state.
-GSD
February 13th, 2007 at 12:44 pm24 Must be banned!
February 13th, 2007 at 12:44 pmI interpret remarks like Ingraham’s as evidence of the disdain that conservatives have for public sensibility. Ingraham’s arrested intellect may not distinguish between reality and fantasy, but I suspect that most Americans can. Could it therefore be possible that Americans embrace “24″ as fictional entertainment—a “safe” venue in which our appetite for the outrageous can be indulged—while rejecting the application of the same practices and ideas in reality? I think so!
February 13th, 2007 at 12:45 pmLet’s get real. If the military’s having difficulty training soldiers not to torture people, the problem runs a f*ck of a lot deeper than the popularity of one tv show.
The acceptance that some people have for torture is rooted in some form of ignorance or bigotry that allows them to treat certain people as subhuman. 24 didn’t cause this problem. Switching off 24 won’t fix it either.
February 13th, 2007 at 12:45 pmThis just in:
Laura Ingraham caught in a compromising position with Anna Nicole’s dead body, more at 10.
February 13th, 2007 at 12:47 pmI wrote in an op-ed comment to my local paper about a Cal Thomas article that said we should all watch “24″ because it is a window into the real world. I suggested that if you really want to get a grip on what real bad guys are like you should watch the old Adam West “Batman” series. Well, I guess that we are finally to the point where the best they can come up with is “watch fictional TV, its chock full of good ideas”.
February 13th, 2007 at 12:50 pmIt’s a show folks. Now you are starting to sound like the Richt Wing Wacos. I love the show. It is fiction. I don’t believe that torture is acceptable. That doesn’t mean that I can’t watch the show for entertainment. It’s a feel good show set in fantasy world where CTU can find the bad guys by roughing people up to squeeze info from them. If it were really that easy, then the world would be a safer place. That is not reality. Stop assuming that TV = reality. It’s just like blaming movies and TV for all the violence in the world. It’s stupid.
February 13th, 2007 at 12:50 pmKaty,
Video games and TV, are not the problem, BAD PARENTS ARE! Kids should never have the games in the first place.
February 13th, 2007 at 12:51 pmComment by RUCerious
Let’s see, in the ’80s it was rock music that led to violence and sexual activity in teenagers. Do you remember who was pushing the agenda on that one?
The PMRC.
Who headed up the PMRC?
Tipper Gore
Who headed up the committee to investigate it?
Al Gore
Who shut them up?
Dee Snyder and Frank Zappa!!!!!
Really, it is not much of a streach. If you can control the Media and controll the arts, you can control the population.
February 13th, 2007 at 12:52 pmLaura Ingraham caught in a compromising position with Anna Nicole’s dead body, more at 10.
Is she the baby’s daddy?
February 13th, 2007 at 12:53 pmIs she the baby’s daddy?
Comment by Wilco
Ok, let’s get this on record right now;
I AM NOT the baby’s daddy.
February 13th, 2007 at 12:55 pmit started with comic books…
the level of crime and criminal acts has grown exponentially with the amount and type of available vehicles of inspiration…
the numbers of sickos affected by what they see and hear has also grown exponentially with the general population…
“guns don’t kill – people kill”… sure… ok… but without the gun making it easy, there might not be a killing… without the inspiration so readily availabe, there might not be so much killing and torture and crime and degradation and various social ills…
who knows… but my gut tells me so… it’s just common sense…
i’ll never forget the day that i felt a total justification and vindication for never buying one of those damn game machines when my kids were growing up…
i’d called the neighbor’s house for my son to come home and he tears out of the house, into the front yard, and when he sees me, he yells, all red faced and pissed off, out of control-like, “WHAT?!? WHAT DO YOU WANT???!!! I’M ALMOST TO LEVEL 5 IN ANOTHER WORLD!!!!!!! WHAT DO YOU WANT??!!!”
… whew… “well, son, i want you to come back home to the real world for now… NOW…” …he was 12ish… and that was the last time for that…
…nope, it’s just not good for the psyche…
February 13th, 2007 at 1:00 pmI certainly will never call for banning shows. I just find the rightwing love of the fictionalized torture a sickening thing.
Most liberals I know like Coppola’s films but wouldn’t reach orgasm about a horses decapitated head in a bed.
The rightwing, who hated Hollywood so much ,now find solace in perverted dreams of torture produced by Hollywoods image makers.
Fascists to the core.
-GSD
February 13th, 2007 at 1:01 pmCNN Breaking News:
Iranian government officials implicated in the death of Anna Nicole. Anonymous sources at the pentagon, who asked not to be named because of the extreme sensitivity of the situation, claimed that there are serial numbers and recently unearthed documents that strongly suggest that the Iranians saw Anna Nicole, and all Americans, as a threat to their culture and way of life. One pentagon source, when asked to clarify the connection, succinctly explained: “(I)f you can’t see that one plus one equals two in this scenario then you are ignoring the lessons of 9/11.”
February 13th, 2007 at 1:02 pmI wish I was the baby’s daddy easy street here I come!!!
February 13th, 2007 at 1:03 pmI’m the baby’s daddy
February 13th, 2007 at 1:03 pm“deep, dark, and ugly” better describes Surnow’s imagination. Isn’t he one of Rush’s Dominican sex-junket buddies??
Come on, everybody, let’s get behind a Robertson/Surnow ‘08 ticket – they can save us from satan and randomly-selected middle-eastern teenagers at the very same time!!!!
February 13th, 2007 at 1:04 pmBut, but, but it’s on FOX, which is a government-run television network anyway. They’re only promoting what they do in practice.
February 13th, 2007 at 1:04 pmon deep background, the Secretary whispered…
February 13th, 2007 at 1:08 pmGlenn Beck is the father of Anna Nicole’s baby.
Let’s be honest about what “24″ really is (and I’ve watched every episode of every season)… right-wing propaganda.
February 13th, 2007 at 1:08 pmVideo games and TV, are not the problem, BAD PARENTS ARE! Kids should never have the games in the first place.
Comment by WellAlrightyThen — February 13, 2007 @ 12:51 pm
i agree… but BAD video and tv are definetely part of the problem…
February 13th, 2007 at 1:14 pmLook guys,
it is a TV show, if you don’t like it, don’t watch it. I don’t agree with any censorship. It is unamerican. If you don’t want your kids watching it then don’t let them. I am sorry if people are taking it for reality, but frankly we all should be adults, and able to discern good behavior from bad.
February 13th, 2007 at 1:17 pmCan’t get too impressed with anything Ingraham has to say on Hollywood TV productions. Torture is ok with her. Yet violence on tv is according to her an abomination. I think the abominable number of tv commercials is torture. As for 24,I don’t watch it so I don’t think Laura can speak for me.
February 13th, 2007 at 1:19 pmRomanticized notions of war and foreign intrigue (overthrowing governments for one’s own self-interests, assassinating disagreeable figures)…
…these are the problem with aggression between nations…
…many of our troops are “playing” war games, fulfilling fantasies of glory formulated when they were but children…
…not realizing the real world implications and impacts on individual lives such “games” have…
…war is madness, man’s failure to keep in touch with our humanity…
…they have become beasts…
February 13th, 2007 at 1:21 pmABC News Update:
Senator Barack Obama, the junior senator from Illinois and recently announced presidential candidate, is not actually black.
An ABC Morning Show consultant first alerted us to this story by pointing out that “(W)hen you look at him sometimes, just in the right light, he actually looks white.”
ABC News color consultant, Cyan Magenta, explains her findings this way:
“We reviewed numerous photos of the Senator and determined, statistically of course, the most accurate representation of the pictures as far as camera angle and lighting issues were concerned. Afterwards we digitally compared Senator Obama’s face in each of the sample photographs with a Heisenberg Spectrograph sampling of the color “black”. To our utter surprise, we found that Senator Obama’s pigmentation rated only 25-40% black on that scale. This led us to the obvious conclusion that Senator Obama is actually mostly white and his dark complexion is due to a Muslim upbringing”
“These are all startling findings” said Ms. Magenta, who continued “but you just cannot ignore the facts in this case and it now causes me to wonder if Senator Obama had anything to do with 9/11.”
ABC News will continue to update you on this story as more facts are created.
February 13th, 2007 at 1:22 pmIt’s bad parenting alone. At least as far as the kids go. As for the adults, that would be the same thing that brought us 8 years of dumbass…stupidity. Either way, don’t tell me what I can and cannot watch because of bad parents and stupid people…
February 13th, 2007 at 1:22 pm…don’t tell me what I can and cannot watch because of bad parents and stupid people…
Comment by Chris H. — February 13, 2007 @ 1:22 pm
correct… wouldn’t think of it…
but exposing the bad and stupid goes a long way towards solving the problem.
February 13th, 2007 at 1:27 pm…
My two pesos: you’ve got to be kidding me. Since when did Americans take fictional tv shows as reality. Turn the tube off folks. Television watching is a dying breed anyway.
February 13th, 2007 at 1:27 pmThanks for the comic releif Tuber.
February 13th, 2007 at 1:37 pm# 43 big papa.
Right on!
How do you do that…always?
Chris H and Krazny:
February 13th, 2007 at 1:43 pmWhile I agree with your posts, I would like to say there has to be some kind of censorship. Imagine the day, not so far I guess, when we have executions broadcast on live TV as a part of some contest TV show. Cant we blame the TV show that makes millions out of morbid watchers? Of course, we can. Should that show be banned? I think, of course, it must be. We can blame the parents for allowing kids, etc, but shouldnt we be more strict about the programs our intelligence deserve?
Katy,
Firstly I don’t want any kind of censorship, or blaming “media”, Did Hitler read comic books? I think not. I laughed my arse off when I read that comment, that’s crazy thinking, just like those 30%’ers we make fun of.
And if you would like some facts, I can show you how violence has decreased over the last 100 years. (always a great pro-evolution argument). The ID folks like to say crime and violence has increased since the teaching in evolution, but fact is in countries where evolution is taught, crime and violence actually has decreased. It just seems like more, because there ARE MORE OF US. But the rates actually decreased.
But katy please get rid of this crappy idea that getting rid of music/video, comic books will help things. If a bad kid wasn’t inside playing a video game, he might be in your back yard torturing your dog. Know what I mean? All the legislation in the world can never legislate good parenting. So don’t try to HELP them by hurting others. I’m 40 years old, and LOVE video games, and it’s my way to be violent, in a passive way.. get it? Take that away from me, and I might be in your back yard.. just kiddin!
February 13th, 2007 at 1:45 pmjustan american,
You would be surprised how many people think TV is reality..
Ask any actor/actress!
Yes America is the dumbest nation in the universe!
February 13th, 2007 at 1:46 pmAgreed Juan,
I don’t think that playing the soprano’s uncensored on daytime TV is a good idea, but for the most part good taste has decided what is and isn’t allowable. I don’t agree with the idea, that if you don’t like a show, or an album, or a video game, that it should be pulled from production.
there is a difference.
February 13th, 2007 at 1:49 pm#1 – “Never saw the show, don’t plan on it. It’s a shame we use pop American culture to say its OK to torture.”
Hmmm – relying on “pop culture”? Kind of like the aging Joan Baez fawning over the Dixie Chicks. Yes, I see your point.
But for real entertainment value, I enjoyed watching Barack Obama give foaming-at-mouth progressives a lesson in good manners the other day. This candidate is the only one who has consistently trumpeted progressive “values” regarding the war and big-mouth banner unfurlers embarrass themselves and their “cause”. Pathetic.
February 13th, 2007 at 1:52 pm#49 – “….I would like to say there has to be some kind of censorship…. but shouldnt we be more strict about the programs our intelligence deserve?”
And who would you nominate to be the “intelligence” police?
February 13th, 2007 at 1:55 pmIf a bad kid wasn’t inside playing a video game, he might be in your back yard torturing your dog.
Comment by WellAlrightyThen
What??? There are no bad kids. Just lousy parents and poor conditions to live a life.
February 13th, 2007 at 1:55 pmDamnit. It’s a television show. Drama. Theater. Absurd. Dumb. Cartoonish. Fun. Fabulous. Entertaining. Don’t watch it if you don’t like it. Don’t let your kids watch it if you don’t like it. But, never tell me I can’t watch it. Censorship never creates progress. Never.
Anyway, this regimes real fear is that it is showing their true tactics.
February 13th, 2007 at 1:56 pm#47 My two pesos: you’ve got to be kidding me. Since when did Americans take fictional tv shows as reality. Turn the tube off folks. Television watching is a dying breed anyway.
Comment by justan american — February 13, 2007 @ 1:27 pm
Yeah, it’s only a TV show. But I can’t but remember the decade between the first and the second Iraq war. Was filled with tv shows and movies about invading Iraq and killing Saddam. Just fiction. Until March 2003.
And now, every TV show has his two cents on “terrorism” and Iran: NCIS, 24, The Unit, and many many more.
All of you’re being indoctrinated right now.
February 13th, 2007 at 1:57 pmI liked the show until I saw Jack torture another character. I suddenly realized what the show was about, and how it (and movies like Hostel and Saw) really reflect: a growing “dulling of the senses” toward torture.
I refuse to watch it anymore. I think shows like this — that glorify human rights abuse — should be stopped. Not censored — that is just as bad torture. But I’ll stop watching it, and I’ll support a boycott of advertisers on such shows.
February 13th, 2007 at 2:00 pmvirulent vulva – bit of a difference between cheerleading torture and opposing a war started on lies – not to split hairs or anything….wouldn’t want to be confused with exley – and not to be confused with a pro-censorship stand. market forces will take care of 24 long before congress could.
February 13th, 2007 at 2:01 pmAnyway, this regimes real fear is that it is showing their true tactics.
Comment by kafka721 — February 13, 2007 @ 1:56 pm
good point… so how can it be that the same fans of this show would deny that the US actually tortures? … or that it is wrong? …
February 13th, 2007 at 2:02 pmmostly a rhetorical there…
How about we try to progress thinking instead of regressing entertainment….its just a TV show.
February 13th, 2007 at 2:04 pmAnd, don’t trust in “market forces” taking care of these types of shows. What drives these types of TV shows is the morbid interest of the human mind in action, torture and death. That is the root of the success of 24, GTA, The Sopranos, Six Feet Under, CSI and many, many more. Or the series of TV based in cops chasing the thief of the day in the highway.
If 24 or GTA lose traction, be prepared for new tv shows with more “attractive” to this type of audience.
February 13th, 2007 at 2:08 pmAnd who would you nominate to be the “intelligence†police?
Comment by valiant venus
Not you, thats for sure. Its not my decision, its the people decision.
February 13th, 2007 at 2:10 pmEntertaining.
Comment by kafka721
Torturing a man is not entertainment.
February 13th, 2007 at 2:12 pmbut shouldnt we be more strict about the programs our intelligence deserve?
Comment by Juan C — February 13, 2007 @ 1:43 pm
I will give you the answer I give when right-wingers want to censor sex scenes in movies or TV shows: Don’t watch it.
Censorship is not a good answer. I find the right-wing’s fascination with torture -even if fictional- very disturbing, but I don’t think TV shows should be censored. We go back to the dilemma of “who decides?”.
Plus, saying that “24″ will cause people to torture is like saying that violence in movies will cause people to be violent. It’s a non sequitur.
February 13th, 2007 at 2:14 pmAnd who would you nominate to be the “intelligence†police?
Comment by valiant venus — February 13, 2007 @ 1:55 pm
Whatever the answer is, I can say with confidence you shouldn’t concern yourself with any intelligence police. You are unlikely to run into trouble with them.
February 13th, 2007 at 2:15 pmPlus, saying that “24″ will cause people to torture is like saying that violence in movies will cause people to be violent. It’s a non sequitur.
Comment by Gregor Samsa
Its the other way around. Becuz people are violent, they like these shows. Nobody will put a TV show about unicorns and fairies, which by the way, mythology is far more interesting that some CIA loser that always arrives late at the end of every season, becuz people are violent.
In Mexico, people are dumb, thats why we have really succesful, disgusting soap operas and TV family shows that are nothing but half-naked ladies and contests where cream cakes are throw around.
I dont want anything censored, but I would like to see a more balanced TV guide. If you see Ann Coulter, then you can have Chomsky. If you have Jack Bauer, I want to have a Van Gogh´s biography. When was the last time you have that one in comparison with a lot of Bauers?
February 13th, 2007 at 2:21 pmIf I were the “intelligence police” there would be nothing but shows starring Tony Danza. That guy is hilarious.
February 13th, 2007 at 2:21 pmMaybe Torture, Iraqi-Style is all just a Repubs version of reality television. Wait until next season, and see the Dems’s versions Pay-Backs Can Be Hell and Neo-Con Bitches Gone Wild. They’re sure to be big smash hits, man!
February 13th, 2007 at 2:22 pmYou are unlikely to run into trouble with them.
Comment by Gregor Samsa
That was funny.
February 13th, 2007 at 2:22 pmTelevision shows (like all works of art) are figments of the creator(s) imaginations…
…there are certainly some works of art that are tastless, distasteful, and downright obscene…
…but stifling artistic expression is NOT conducive to human growth, exploration and discovery…
…these elements (exploration, discovery and growth) are instrumental in societal/individual human advancement…
…its up to parents to guide their children through the min(d) fields of imaginative expressions (art in all forms)…
…the attitudes, values, and morals of every human being is shaped by his/her early caregivers…
…censorship is therefore unneccessary, and counterproductive…
BTW Juan,
…we are all students of this life in which we find ourselves…
…some just study harder, and take the lessons more to heart…
February 13th, 2007 at 2:28 pmTime for “liberal Hollywood” to put out a counter movie or TV program in which torture leads to information that is not only incorrect but down right harmful to the country of the torturers.
I am strongly opposed to censorship but that does not mean that we should not vehemently attack the messages that shows like “24″ carry and how they mirror the immorality of our governmental policies.
BTW, Tipper Gore was not working for governmental censorship but for accurate labeling as information for parents to help manage the exposure of their kids to certain types of music.
February 13th, 2007 at 2:33 pmOh, okay so 24 is like the fourth branch of government, with their policy making and nipple electrocution….
February 13th, 2007 at 2:36 pmIts the other way around. Becuz people are violent, they like these shows.
Comment by Juan C — February 13, 2007 @ 2:21 pm
Exactly my point.
And because people like to have sex, they want to see sex in movies. And because people like to booze, they like… you get the idea.
When was the last time you have that one in comparison with a lot of Bauers?
Media companies are in the business of making money. That is true in the US, as well as in Mexico, Europe, etc. Which is why they have to aim at the lowest common denominator.
They get nothing from educating the public. The closest they come to educational programming is some sort of “edutainment”, a la Crocodile Hunter.
“24″ is no different. It is disturbing that right-wingers take it as an example of what Americans want to see actually happening in real life. Ironically, these are the same people who spend day and night denouncing the “liberal” Hollywood types, and their violent shows. I guess if Hollywood produces the violence they find palatable, Hollywood -and violence- is not so bad after all.
February 13th, 2007 at 2:38 pmIn Mexico, people are dumb, thats why we have really succesful, disgusting soap operas and TV family shows that are nothing but half-naked ladies and contests where cream cakes are throw around.
Comment by Juan C
I barely understand a lick of Spanish, yet I could watch the half naked ladies throwing cream pies around all day. I’ve seen it on Univision and Telemundo
February 13th, 2007 at 2:40 pmIt is propaganda, not just sex and death for sale.
Comment by Spudge_Boy
It continues to reinforce the culture of fear that must exist for a perpetual war.
Haven’t, wouldn’t EVER watch this garbage. Fluffy TV, mmmm, good for dumbing down society…
February 13th, 2007 at 2:52 pmThis show is much much different than every other violent show on television. It is propaganda, not just sex and death for sale.
Comment by Spudge_Boy — February 13, 2007 @ 2:43 pm
I agree that “24″ takes things up a notch or two, but it is no different from -say- the Dirty Harry movies. Or Charles Bronson’s movies. Or many other movies I forget right now.
For the record, I’ve watched parts of “24″ a few times and didn’t find it entertaining. I couldn’t sit for more than 10mins in front of the TV set.
February 13th, 2007 at 2:59 pmThe first season of 24 was entertaining, But has been the increasing politization of the show, the orientation to “fight terrorists”, to “ressemble reality” and the more and more prone to torture Bauer the things that have trashed the show for me.
While it was pure fictional drivel, it was somewhat entertaining, as is any movie of Schwarsenegger or Stallone, the typical “we can fix everything with a big gun and an even bigger bomb” nonsense, no matter if it is an earthquake, an alien invasion or the devil coming in the end of the millenium.
Finally, I must say that I find “The Dead Zone” far more ressemblant to reality.
February 13th, 2007 at 3:35 pmAs lame an excuse as the slippery slope video game arguments.. 24 doesn’t promote torture. Intentionally muddy orders and averted oversight promotes torture.
February 13th, 2007 at 3:44 pmI’ve seen it on Univision and Telemundo
Comment by ForTruth
Me too. I never said I wasnt dumb. :)
February 13th, 2007 at 3:55 pmAs Charles Caleb Colton, the brilliant cleric observed, “Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.” Or is this a case of “Life Imitates F(art)?” Colton also observed that “Tyrants have not yet discovered any chains that can fetter the mind.” You can break a person’s body but you can’t break his mind 100% of the time, despite ANY TORTURES you use–the tortured will invariably give the torturer the information the torturer WANTS TO HEAR–I don’t believe the majority of our servicemen are GULLIBLE or STUPID enough to copy the PABLUM IDIOCY of “24″(tm), entertaining though it may be, to put to use in real life–if they are that gullible or stupid, they deserve to be TORTURED AS WELL!!!!!
February 13th, 2007 at 4:37 pmI hear Al and Tipper Gore and the censorship police coming.
Comment by hacker bob — February 13, 2007 @ 12:17 pm
So, bob, a thread about something that makes life more dangerous for your comrades-in-arms, and you’re the first person to try to derail the thread.
Put this together with Bush’s pulling the U.S. out of the Geneva Convention and what do you have for captured U.S. soldiers? Think this makes it more safe for your fellow women and men in uniform?
Are you really a Marine? Or just a paid hack?
/contempt
February 13th, 2007 at 5:48 pmIf you can control the Media and controll the arts, you can control the population.
Well they just controlled the living shit out of it, now didn’t they.
February 13th, 2007 at 5:53 pmif sutherland was a man of good conscience, he would quit the show. all the show does is keep the lunatics motivated to keep the war going and keep the fear factor high. the nuts that watch this show are probably in the same alternate reality that bush and cheney are in. i have only caught a couple of minutes of this show while channel surfing. that was enough for me to know that it is right wing nut propaganda.
February 13th, 2007 at 6:42 pmAre you really a Marine? Or just a paid hack?
/contempt
Comment by Briseadh na Faire
Wow, a TV show makes life more dangerous for my brothers and sisters in arms? Maybe if we were talking about al Jazera broadcasting bomb making classes you would have something. This is a god damn TV show. That is it. Nothing more.
Please do not tell me that you are one of those that thinks Rock music causes drug usage, or that video games cause murderous rampages. You seem much more intelligent than that.
As for your comtempt, you can shove that up your a$$. I do not need your praise nor do I care about your contempt.
February 13th, 2007 at 7:18 pmPlease do not tell me that you are one of those that thinks Rock music causes drug usage, or that video games cause murderous rampages. You seem much more intelligent than that. Comment by hacker bob — February 13, 2007 @ 7:18 pm
Bob, it’s a proven fact that video games make children more aggressive. Whether it makes them murderous or not is something you can debate. But aggression can lead to rampages and murder – just ask your friends in Haditha.
http://www.psychologymatters.org/videogames.html
February 13th, 2007 at 7:45 pmI love 24 it a great work of FICTION. As a liberal I can’t understand my political kin excusing deviant films as art when It serves them then turning around and condemning artistic expression when it doesn’t. I’m an artist and cannot think of anything worse than people deciding how I should express myself. When did the left wing turn into newt gingrich clones shame on you all!
February 13th, 2007 at 8:01 pmBut aggression can lead to rampages and murder – just ask your friends in Haditha.
Comment by ValiantVenusGrewFromUranus
Physical excercise and lack of sex can make you more aggressive as well. Especially if you already have a high testosterone level. So can being shot at, mortared, and having IEDs blow up around you. Just ask anyone that has served in combat.
February 13th, 2007 at 8:05 pmNo one gave a dam about 24 now the troops are watching it there’s a problem. Look Rummy did worse torture then Jack could have think of. Next we’ll hear that the troops are up set about Desperate Housewives. Talk about anything but bringing our troops home. Cheney could teach the 24 show about how to torture as he loves water boarding people.
February 13th, 2007 at 9:02 pmComment by hacker bob — February 13, 2007 @ 7:18 pm
So it’s ok with you that people that hate U.S. Soldiers already get this glimpse of how we treat “their kind.” This “god damn” TV show can’t possibly give anyone in the rest of the world a negative image of U.S. troops, can it?
You’re defending this “god damn” TV show as if it’s a good thing for your fellow women and men in arms. Do you think the “insurgents” who shoot at our troops believe this TV show is completely fiction, and that Americans don’t do those kinds of things to prisoners?
Or could this TV show corroborate everything they have heard about Abu Gahrab and other places where we have held their brothers, sisters, fathers and mothers?
Did you know one or two kids killed themselves after watching the Saddam hanging video? Do you think it’s possible some kids might even experiment with some of the technics shown on this “god damn” TV show?
Some Marine you are. I would have thought you’d be up in arms against anything that increases the danger to your fellow Marines. But then, they volunteered, didn’t they?
And, yes, I want you to get mad. Mad enough to say “Enough is enough!” Mad enough to be willing to risk as much as other soldiers have in speaking out against this war and the needless slaughter of innocent children, women and men, and yes, the terrible waste of American soldiers’ lives as well.
February 13th, 2007 at 9:16 pmjeezzz its a tv show for godsakes!!!
February 13th, 2007 at 9:54 pmI’m like #1 fortruth; I’ve never watched the show nor plan to. TV is so lame these days. Fear factor, Survivor, 24, yuk. THe critics who said Beverly Hillbillies, and Gilligan’s Island in the 60s was mindless mush would consider them classics when compared to today’s programming.
February 13th, 2007 at 10:02 pmYou’re defending this “god damn†TV show as if it’s a good thing for your fellow women and men in arms. Do you think the “insurgents†who shoot at our troops believe this TV show is completely fiction, and that Americans don’t do those kinds of things to prisoners?
Damn straight it is ok. There is this little thing called the First Amendment. That is part of this little thing called the Constitution that I have sworn to uphold and defend. I do not have to like something in order to defend it or its validity. There are plenty of things I do not like that I still defend. Here is a silly concept for you, If you do not like it, don’t watch it. Convince others not to watch it. Boycott the companies that advertise on it. But just because YOU do not like it does not mean it should be taken off the air. Just because it “MIGHT†give people a negative image of the U.S. is no reason to silence it. There are plenty of other things that can send that message as well. This TV show has been on the air since Nov, 2001. Why is it only now a problem? Oh yeah, it is not a show about the “troops”. It is about a fictitious agent in an agency like the CIA. Desperate Housewives could send the message that all American women are sluts as well. Where is the outrage?
And yes, a couple of kids hanged themselves after watching the Saddam video. Is that NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN, or Fox’s fault? No, it is their parents fault. They should have been supervising their children. I agree the video should not have been run, but that does not relieve the parents of their responsibility. Just like parents should not allow their children to watch shows like “24″ until those children are old enough to understand that it is fiction and in real life, people do not come back in the next episode.
Some Marine you are. I would have thought you’d be up in arms against anything that increases the danger to your fellow Marines. But then, they volunteered, didn’t they?
This is a TV show. Show me CONCLUSIVLEY that it is a risk to men and women in uniform. You can’t. All you can give me is “might” but nothing to back it.
I guess I am a damn good Marine. I defend things that I like and do not like. I up hold my oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States. In other words, I DO MY F*CKING JOB!
February 13th, 2007 at 10:03 pmShow me CONCLUSIVLEY that it is a risk to men and women in uniform. You can’t. Comment by hacker bob — February 13, 2007 @ 10:03 pm
You demand what you yourself cannot provide. Can you tell me, CONCLUSIVELY, that any given mission in Iraq is a risk to men and women in uniform? No. Because you are not prescient.
Everything is on a sliding scale, from zero percent risk of harm, to 100% risk of certain death. If this show could in any way move the indicator closer to the certain death side of the scale for his fellow soldiers, a Marine would be bound out of loyalty to his comrades-in-arms to speak out against it.
You could have done so. You could have chosen to exercise your free speech and call for a boycott of the show’s sponsors. That’s not censorship, that’s free market. Instead, you attempted to derail critics of the show in post #5.
You say, “I guess I am a damn good Marine.” I would leave out the “good,” that is, if you even are a Marine.
February 13th, 2007 at 10:54 pmThis show has been irresponsible about torture. Time to rethink mans inhumanity to man. The media has a responsibility, now, as never before to lead. The role of the media must not represent torture. The role of the media is the soul of humanity. When we lose the media to justify torture to the public then we have become a world with out a soul!
February 14th, 2007 at 1:34 amI agree with the first ammendment right to free speech. This is the right that we hold close to our hearts , however, this is akin to screaming fire in a crowded theater, this is creating fear and hatred in the midst of fear that is already consuming the public. I see this show as an irrispossible component of the right wing fear monger idiots. Please find some humanity. Teach your children well. Teach each other to solve problems. The world will be a better place if we can all try to walk in each others shoes.
February 14th, 2007 at 1:50 amIf people can’t tell the difference between fantasy and reality, that’s on them. What, is the military getting it’s training from a tv show? That’s really sad if they are. Seriously, people need a wake up call. We’re turning into a nation of babies and knuckleheads.
February 14th, 2007 at 2:12 amThe role of the media is to give all prospectives. The role of the media is to be fair. The role of the media is to entertain and at the same time be truthful. The role of the media is to be responsible and not cry fire in a public place. The role of the media is all of us and we must, now be the media because we are not getting the truth. The role of the media is to look at all sides of a story. The role of the media is to report about what is happining in the world , not just focasing on one story, say for example Anna Nicole Smith , which took up the weekend on every news channel. Why did we not see any information about the troops that died or the Iraqis that lost their lives. Why is Anna Nihol so much more important then our government threating to go to war with Iran? I want answers now!
February 14th, 2007 at 2:12 amSorry for my spelling errors but I want to know why Anna Nichol was so prominant. Why was this women on every channel. There was so much going on in the government Scooter Libby, Congress resolutions, so much and every media was on this . The soul of America has been lost to this criminal media.
February 14th, 2007 at 2:25 am[...] U.S. Military: Television Series ‘24’ Is Promoting Torture In The Ranks February 14, 2007 Posted by pjwalker911 in Social Engineering, Big Media, Torture Madness, Crime & Corruption, Social Degeneration. trackback Think Progress | Feb 13, 2007  [...]
February 14th, 2007 at 4:50 amI saw some right wing looney toon comment earlier about the left wing censor police coming to shut down “24″. Funny how a woman’s bare breast will send these idiots into apoplectic convulsions but the on going orgy of violence on American TV doesn’t phase them one bit. They probably make love with the lights out and fantasize about killing arabs while pumping it to the old lady. Make Love, Not Gore!
February 14th, 2007 at 5:01 amMARY, you speak of the role of the media in the past. The role of the media today is to make a profit for Corporations.
I haven’t seen any calls for the Government to step in and shut this particular program down. If I did, I would strenuously object. However, I see nothing wrong with people voting with their pocket book to withdraw their support for the Corporate sponsors of this show.
February 14th, 2007 at 9:04 amYeah, ‘24′ shows alot of torture. However, the show also does a good job of showing that it doesn’t work. Over the course of the show, torture has been effective less than 10% of the time. So to say ‘24′ endorses torture is ludicrous. If anything, it clearly sends a message it doesn’t work, and many times causes the good guys to lose several hours on a wild goose chase.
February 14th, 2007 at 9:32 amIn other news, an alien invasion is coming and only Randy Quaid can save us. It’s true, I saw it in a movie, I think it was called Independence Day.
24 is a fucking TV show, no basis for reality. Fucking dimwits.
February 14th, 2007 at 10:16 amI think these type of shows are dangerous because they seem to promote and spread fear. On 24, how many freakin nuclear devices has Jack Bower defused now?
Sure most people know that it’s just a TV show. But I bet story lines like that sure can get people’s imaginations going.
It seems comparable to Michael Moore’s assertions that local news stations report on the most sensational, horrific, violent occurrences that are in fact very rare. Seeing this crap reported all the time gets people scared and thinking that it happens more often than it really does.
All the while, if there is such a huge threat, why is it taking Bushco so long to enact the recommendations of the 9-11 commission??
Wouldn’t that make us safer? Are they themselves just amping up the fear and not too worried about anything happening on American soil?
February 14th, 2007 at 10:29 am[...] blogs are a-flutter with the discovery that the TV show 24 is an apologist vehicle for torture, and the troops are digging [...]
February 14th, 2007 at 10:36 amBoiling down the facts:
February 14th, 2007 at 11:01 amAmerican troops responsible for human rights abuses at Abu Ghraib were punished. (I must have missed the throngs wanting radical murdering Islamists brought to justice.)
Al Zarqawi, decapitator extraordinaire, is dead.
Al Zawahiri and the radical Left take their “talking points” from the same playbook.
Radical Muslims still engage in their favorite forms of mass-murder, vehicle bombs and human bombs.
Leftists, who consider themselves “kind and loving” (and to whom word “profit” is the most vulgar), cower and want to “make nice”.
OK – I get it.
Venus…
Boiling down the facts:
American troops responsible for human rights abuses at Abu Ghraib were punished. (I must have missed the throngs wanting radical murdering Islamists brought to justice.)
No, more like American troops were TOLD to do those things then later hung out to dry. Did Rhumsfeld take responsibility for anything? NO. Who’s looking out for the troops now?
Al Zarqawi, decapitator extraordinaire, is dead.
And we could have taken him out before we invaded, but we didn’t. And he had no contact with Saddam anyway.
Al Zawahiri and the radical Left take their “talking points†from the same playbook.
Don’t make stuff up. Only ideologues believe that.
Radical Muslims still engage in their favorite forms of mass-murder, vehicle bombs and human bombs.
Yes and our troops (whose numbers were inadequate from day one) were thrown into that without the proper equipment. (You know, armor for their bodies and Hummers.)
Maybe the bombings cold have been prevented if WE hadn’t excused the Iraqi army.
Leftists, who consider themselves “kind and loving†(and to whom word “profit†is the most vulgar), cower and want to “make niceâ€.
OK – I get it.
Well since our military actions have only aided in the recruitment of terrorists, maybe we should smarten up and try to use diplomacy and intelligence to stop this ideology from spreading. Our own generals are saying this for God’s sake!
How about we start dealing with our supposed allies that teach the twisted fundamentalist views that spawn terrorists? And it seems that they might be funding them too.
I think that this country is well past these weak arguments. When will the government and the press catch up?
Comment by valiant venus — February 14, 2007 @ 11:01 am
February 14th, 2007 at 12:07 pm“”#47 My two pesos: you’ve got to be kidding me. Since when did Americans take fictional tv shows as reality. Turn the tube off folks. Television watching is a dying breed anyway.
Comment by justan american — February 13, 2007 @ 1:27 pm”"
Maybe since the conservatives believe that ‘Leave it to Beaver’ was the way IT REALLY WAS before the liberals ruined America?
Judging by the sales of flat screen TVs, TV watching is not dying, the audience is getting segmented into watching only what validates their view point or interests. Let’s not have another controversial program like Archie Bunker.
February 14th, 2007 at 12:45 pmComment by Briseadh na Faire — February 14, 2007 @ 9:04 am
Gee, I think I advised you to do the same thing last night.
February 14th, 2007 at 3:38 pmGood grief, all this hand wringing over a TV show?? I’m also wondering what kind of instructors they have at West Point, if I had some young recruit say what about “24″ I would have them drop and give me 50 for being stupid enough to ask that…
Tune into tv any night, what have we got? Adultery, Abortion, Bigomy, Condom use or misuse, (see the ABCs)..oohhh now we have torture and well that changes everything!! And all of a sudden those same people who watch or at least don’t say a thing about Jerry Springer or other repugnant shows are now crying about torture depicted in the fantasy world of 24.
There will always be a few soft-brained people in the world who think copying scenes from the Jack@ss movie seems cool, but where is all your handwringing about those people?
I have a novel suggestion, one that I’m sure you’ve used when the moral police have come knocking against your favorite television show: If you don’t like it, don’t watch.
February 14th, 2007 at 6:38 pmSo we should remove 24 .Also should we not remove all the csi’s because someone may think if you are murder your killer will be caught in 1 hr??
February 14th, 2007 at 6:47 pmShould we not remove law and order so people wont think a person will be tried and convicted in a hour?
Should we remove the x-files.After all people may think theres something really out there. lmao
oh lets don’t forget porn. should we ban porn cause it may lead some to commit sex offenses???
February 14th, 2007 at 6:50 pmCondom use!
February 15th, 2007 at 12:24 amWe must stop this insanity because using condoms is ever so bad!
How dare those devil worshipers have safe sex!
Oh the horror!!!!!!
I love 24 and I’m about as liberal as they come. I’m opposed to the torture of detainees but what’s shown on 24 is the “ticking clock scenario” on American soil. Let’s face it, if a nuclear device is going to go off in 3 hours in the United States, most Americans would not be opposed to the tactics used by Jack Bauer. We want “Jack” on the case. I don’t care what an agent has to do to stop the attack.
February 15th, 2007 at 8:18 amDebbie, you are the poster child for the fear mongering neocons that have brought this once great nation to the brink of self destruction. The point of the Constitution is that individual inalienable rights are not to be dismantled during times of crisis, so no, torturing people for information is WRONG, no matter what the circumstances. How do you think the neocons were able to concoct this illegal invasion of a sovereign state? By preying on your fears that terrorists will attack us in our own back yard if we don’t invade Iraq. Don’t be so fu**ing gullible
February 15th, 2007 at 10:02 amIs Thomas off his meds?
February 15th, 2007 at 12:49 pmWhile common people are at liberty to the views they fancy, a tendency could get worrisome when it starts affecting those who usually vow to expose myths and dispel propaganda.
Signs are already visible where media activists and security scholars fancy if Jack Bauer has arrived as the new Rambo to help conquer terror. Instead of questioning the creeping in of propaganda as prime time entertainment, some ‘homeland security scholars’ asked Secretary Chertoff at a Heritage Foundation event what role would he take if given a chance on ‘24′. Is this a new embodiment of the tail wagging the dog?
February 15th, 2007 at 3:37 pmpropaganda like west wing or that show that had a woman prez that was meant to give h.clinton a boost?
February 15th, 2007 at 4:19 pmWhat is appalling is that so many people (including those like Cheney) cannot seem to distinguish fiction from reality. To make a claim that because a fictional character engages in torture in a casual manner that it’s okay and is evidence that the practice must be supported by the public is just delusional.
February 17th, 2007 at 12:19 amUS CITIZEN TORTURED BY COPSTERS IN USA – FOR REAL!
February 19th, 2007 at 5:31 amActual hidden audiotape of Lester Eugene Siler tortured by Cambell County sheriff deputies in his home, using baseball bats, electrodes clipped to his genitals, drowned in a fish tank, and a gun in his mouth.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3386531596598980684&hl=en
I am surprised that adults watching 24 can be so easily influenced…Ok I can understand kids thinking oh its ok to torture someone but that’s just a show a film a fantasy…there have been many stupid action flicks that invlove things u really shouldn’t try in real life…
Those who think this show is justification that torture is ok are generally people who up until now have always thought that way but thought it unwise to show their true colours due to fear of what their peers would say…But Now Jack is cool so…if Jack can do it then it must be ok…what sick people….bottom line is torture is wrong…and politicians and those in power are the ones who should put a stop to this activity…no show, no movie, no comic book hero should be the reason to justify its existence…
This kind of thing is like watching a martial arts film or some ninja movie and then going out buying a sword and trying to go cutting up people…we all know the show is fantasy just like other films…and it should just be seen as such…
only people with serious psychological problems would think oh i saw it in a movie/TV so it must be ok…..and they are likely to find anything to justify their psycho behaviour…
R
February 19th, 2007 at 5:43 am[...] Army has invited Kiefer Sutherland, star of the hit TV show 24 and opponent of torture, to come and discuss why it is wrong to torture prisoners. Brigadier General Patrick Finnegan also [...]
February 27th, 2007 at 5:20 pm[...] that he was concerned that the show’s promotion of illegal torture “was having a damaging effect on young troops.” In a new interview with Newsweek, former U.S. Army specialist Tony Lagouranis, who left the [...]
February 28th, 2007 at 11:52 amkaty,
March 1st, 2007 at 12:13 amIf the parent generation would stop complaning about violent vidogames and just make an effor to put good morals in them the whole brainwashing video game issue would be solved
It is that bad?? what about the Death films that are out there ? slience of the lambs ect… hmmm
The Right is led by Hitler himself, seen by us as Bush..
you are all fools, go get a job, or at least use the internet to find one…. looks like you have nothing better to do.
March 5th, 2007 at 4:34 pm[...] Kiefer Sutherland, a depuis pris position contre la torture, en expliquant qu’elle ne donne que des renseignements biaisés puisque la victime “dit [...]
March 5th, 2007 at 5:11 pmThis is just a show! This is not the only form of media to have torture scenes. Why does 24 get all the blame? What about rated R movies and M rated video games? What about the Punisher? I would be more worried about SAW giving psychos ideas than the effect 24 has on people. I love 24, it’s a great work of fiction and in the end it is just that…… F I C T I O N, so why can’t people just relax about it already? Anybody that watches 24 and thinks that’s what all agents get to do needs to stop watching the show.
March 6th, 2007 at 5:37 pm