Hume: Murtha Is Senile, Doesn’t Have ‘The Foggiest Awareness’ Of What’s Going On In The World
Hume: Murtha Is Senile, Doesn’t Have ‘The Foggiest Awareness’ Of What’s Going On In The World
This morning on Fox News, Brit Hume launched a scathing diatribe against Rep. John Murtha’s (D-PA) character. “It’s time a few things be said about him,” Hume said. “This guy is long past the day when he had anything but the foggiest awareness of what the heck is going on in the world.” Hume called Murtha an “absolute fountain” of “naivete.” Watch it:
Murtha has long been the subject of smear attacks from the right. When he first came out in support of redeployment from Iraq in late 2005, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) said Murtha had “never been a big thinker,” and that he had “become too emotional” because he “goes to funerals.” The White House said it was “baffling that he is endorsing the policy positions of Michael Moore and the extreme liberal wing.”
Transcript:
HUME: That sound bite from John Murtha suggests that it’s time a few things be said about him. Even the “Washington Post” noted he didn’t seem particularly well informed about what’s going on over there, to say the least. Look, this man has tremendous cache among House Democrats, but he is not — this guy is long past the day when he had anything but the foggiest awareness of what the heck is going on in the world.
And that sound bite is naivete writ large, and the man is an absolute fountain of such talk, and the fact that he has ascended to the position he has in the eyes of the Democrats in the House and perhaps Democrats around the country tells you a lot about how much they know or care about what’s really going on over there.
WILLIAMS: He’s chairman of the subcommittee, House Appropriations. He’ll have a lot to say about what Mara was just discussing –
HUME: A lot of it will be —
WILLIAMS: We’re in a democratic process. Not everybody is as smart as you are. He’s going to have a voice and a vote and I think lots of people identify with what he’s saying, which is let’s look at different alternatives rather than engage in what is a war that is just taking us down, down, down.
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Heh. It never ceases to amaze me how right wing americans look the political spectre. Michael Moore, a extreme liberal??? They must think Hitler was a moderate liberal.
February 18th, 2007 at 10:21 amBrit Hume, Not just mildly retarded…
February 18th, 2007 at 10:24 amYeah, like Brit has a clue as to what’s going on over there. What an ass. How many times has Brit visited Iraq? None.
February 18th, 2007 at 10:26 amThis story about the Empire State shooting by a Palestinian in 1997 is just coming out today.
I wonder how many Americans have to be killed at home before the Regressives’ god of political correctness is appeased.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/015330.php
regarding
http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/498674p-420269c.html
Relatives of killer: 1997 Empire State shooting was revenge for U.S. support for Israel Ten years ago a Palestinian Arab shot seven people, killing one, at the Empire State Building. After insisting it wasn’t a political attack for ten years, now his family admits that it was indeed an attack in service of the jihad against Israel.
With all the talk these days about how terrible it is for some people to question whether or not the killer’s Islamic religion had anything to do with the Salt Lake City mall murders, this is an especially intriguing story.
“Killer’s daughter admits it was political,” by Mahmoud Habboush in the New York Daily News, with thanks to MJN:
February 18th, 2007 at 10:27 am
Hume is just regurgitating what he’s heard said about himself.
Murtha is doing great.
February 18th, 2007 at 10:31 amMichael Moore, a extreme liberal??? They must think Hitler was a moderate liberal.
Comment by Juan C — February 18, 2007 @ 10:21 am
LOL… Good one.
Yeah, to them, anyone who has so much as a passing relationship with reality is an extreme liberal.
February 18th, 2007 at 10:34 amThat’s right. This is why Democrats should not be guesting on FOX. It’s actually amazing that they do.
February 18th, 2007 at 10:35 amMurtha just got owned. Brit is the man.
February 18th, 2007 at 10:36 am“It’s time a few things be said about him,â€
Finally, a proud fascist American is going to impugn Murtha’s integrity for the first time ever.
Folks, propagandists live for this kind of shit. They will never stop. They enjoy lying and manipulating people. That is their only job. They do not believe in truth.
February 18th, 2007 at 10:37 amAnd you Mr. Hume have a girly name, Brit. Isn’t the E! network or LOGO in need of more of your type?
So, why don’t you comment on the color of Mr. Murtha’s tie or hairstyle, or something you’re more adept at discussing…
February 18th, 2007 at 10:37 amHume is Hume!
Soon we have picture dictionary right-wing retards it will show two pictures for the definition of retarded:
1) Bush Jr.
February 18th, 2007 at 10:37 am2) Brit Hume
Carl Levin, Mich. is this week’s FOX DEMOCRAT
February 18th, 2007 at 10:38 amDenny Hastert is much less senile than John Murtha
February 18th, 2007 at 10:40 amWhat can we do about fock’s newz ?
We need a group of intelligent individuals to develop a solid offensive
February 18th, 2007 at 10:40 amaimed directly at destroying their business.
Who watches that fool anymore? 50% of the viewers of Fox are liberal bloggers, waiting to report more of the endless spew of stupidity, flowing unceasingly from that vacuous propaganda factory.
Hume has zero credibility as a journalist. Who worth noting gives a rats ass what he says?
Not me.
February 18th, 2007 at 10:41 amHume called Murtha an “absolute fountain†of “naivete.â€
And, by extension, anyone who opposes Bush’s “surge” is just naive.
In the history books, a mere 3 dozen Senators stood up to the rest of the nation and voted to prevent a debate on a non-binding resolution to oppose the President in a time of war. They wanted a vote on funding.
I suggest the House give them what they want, and pass a bill providing funding only for withdrawing troops from Iraq. Then let the Republicans continue to mouth “support the troops” while filibustering funding for the troops.
February 18th, 2007 at 10:42 amIf Murtha Is Senile, then Bush is a total Spastic
February 18th, 2007 at 10:42 amMurtha just got owned. Brit is the man.
Comment by firehead — February 18, 2007 @ 10:36 am
Wrong-Murtha IS A MAN-hume is a fairy.
February 18th, 2007 at 10:43 amHow can they question other peoples intelligence when their own 2x choosen leader (aka bush represents them) is a complete freakin idiot?
February 18th, 2007 at 10:45 amSHut up liberals, he is senile, and stupid, to think we can just leave Iraq. Liberals have a hard time with reality.
February 18th, 2007 at 10:46 amComment by Vince P
So does this mean you are giving us permission to drop bombs on the houses of right wingers because of abortion clinic bombers?
February 18th, 2007 at 10:48 amMark Steyn has this to say about Murtha and Democrats. I agree 100%. The Democrats act as if their party is the country.. all must be done in service of the Party. Meanwhile the rest of the world sees this as America’s war and America will be damaged by the Democratic Agenda of Defeat:
“The Murtha plan, based on existing military guidelines, includes a stipulation that Army troops who have already served in Iraq must be granted two years at home before an additional deployment. . . . The idea is to slowly choke off the war by stopping the deployment of troops from units that have been badly degraded by four years of combat.”
So “the Murtha plan” is to deny the president the possibility of victory while making sure Democrats don’t have to share the blame for the defeat. But of course he’s a great American! He’s a patriot! He supports the troops! He doesn’t support them in the mission, but he’d like them to continue failing at it for a couple more years. As John Kerry wondered during Vietnam, how do you ask a soldier to be the last man to die for a mistake? By nominally “fully funding” a war you don’t believe in but “limiting his ability to use the money.” Or as the endearingly honest anti-war group MoveCongress.org put it, in an e-mail preview of an exclusive interview with the wise old Murtha:
“Chairman Murtha will describe his strategy for not only limiting the deployment of troops to Iraq but undermining other aspects of the president’s foreign and national security policy.”
“Undermining”? Why not? To the Slow-Bleed Democrats, it’s the Republicans’ war. To an increasing number of what my radio pal Hugh Hewitt calls the White-Flag Republicans, it’s Bush’s war. To everyone else on the planet, it’s America’s war. And it will be America’s defeat.
February 18th, 2007 at 10:48 amTime to leave Iraq – and apologise and pay compensations for a messed up Bush
February 18th, 2007 at 10:50 amSHut up liberals, he is senile, and stupid, to think we can just leave Iraq. Liberals have a hard time with reality.
Comment by Shoelimpyâ
Then please explain EXACTLY the reality of what will happen to AMERICA if we leave… the predictions about the commi Vietnamese taking over the world if we leave never happened and it was stupid saying it back then just as much as it is stupid saying it about the Iraqis now.
Last I checked if we pull out of Iraq we dont have to give up our military so if we need them for something else they will be MORE available not less because they are boged down in Iraq.
February 18th, 2007 at 10:51 amLets celebrate two more murdering stealing Rapist American troops bit the bullet today – Yee Haa
February 18th, 2007 at 10:52 amComment by Vince P
The world sees this as the Bush war along with his supporters which make up the dumbest most backwards segment of American society.
February 18th, 2007 at 10:52 amNot everybody is as smart as Brit Hume. Juan fires off a bit of scarcasm. Perfect! Brit Hume know only one thing – what Karl Rove wrote for him to say that say.
February 18th, 2007 at 10:52 am“Chairman Murtha will describe his strategy for not only limiting the deployment of troops to Iraq but undermining other aspects of the president’s foreign and national security policy.â€
Sounds great since Botch has NO foreign policy agenda, other than to f*ck things up, like the stupid spoiled idiot TOOL he is!!!!
Go get the chickenhawks Murtha, and don’t stop till they’re ALL cryin’ in court!
February 18th, 2007 at 10:53 amIgnore the trolls. Better yet, make them clean up their regurgitation.
February 18th, 2007 at 10:54 amBrit Hume – professional dignity through and through.
February 18th, 2007 at 10:54 amAnd what does Michael Moore have to say about Bush’s “surge”?
Wednesday, January 10th, 2007
Dear Mr. President: Send Even MORE Troops (and you go, too!) …from Michael Moore
Yours,
Michael Moore
February 18th, 2007 at 10:55 ammmflint@aol.com
http://www.michaelmoore.com
#20 – Are you for real?
Liberalism or Conservatism are absolutely meaningless. The only useful scale for measuring Government is whether it gives it’s citizens Liberty or Tyranny.
Are we more free than before 911 or has the government usurped that liberty and replaced it with restrictions on our lives? I think the answer is self-evident. You think nothing of surrendering your liberty for the illusion of safety but, I implore you to look at history and see, that it has never been for the benefit of the People. It only benefits Tyrannical governments.
Don’t believe what I say. Read History and learn the facts.
February 18th, 2007 at 10:56 amGood idea BnF – give them all the funding they need as long as it’s part of getting out of Iraq. Might make it harder for anyone prone to believing the lies on Fox to twist it into not supporting the troops.
If we go with the Faux logic, that leaving makes things more dangerous (so we can’t leave), then are they saying that we can NEVER leave?
Because even Bush said that there’s never going to be NO car bombings – so how many car bombings is okay and still allow us to leave? With their logic we’ll be there forever!!
February 18th, 2007 at 10:56 amThe world sees this as the Bush war along with his supporters which make up the dumbest most backwards segment of American society.
Er sorry no we dont, we see America tarred with the same brush as Bush does anybody in this chat seriously think 911 happened because America is a peace loving Neutral country – I did not think so – 911 happened because of America Butting its nose into foreign affairs for the worse – You see you lot think your better than everyone else ……Thats no way to treat your roots
February 18th, 2007 at 10:58 amMeanwhile the rest of the world sees this as America’s war and America will be damaged by the Democratic Agenda of Defeat. Comment by Vince P — February 18, 2007 @ 10:48 am
Gee…do you have any sources, citations, evidence about your claim? Or are you merely making up “facts”?
Your turn, Vince. Put up or or be branded a liar.
February 18th, 2007 at 10:59 amTobey: We’ll send you the bill for all the damaged caused when the Islamic Caliphate of Mesopotamia unleashes the final Jihad against all Kuffars.
February 18th, 2007 at 10:59 amtony snow and brit hume Rock! – how great is it to see the ultra successful twin offspring of Fred Gwynne and Margaret Thatcher set the record straight – watch Tony’s eyes go every direction as he accurately says, nothing went wrong so far in Iraq and Hume, as usual, backs Bush’s treeeeeeemendous foresight and canny military strategy. keep up the great work, little Herman Thatchers
February 18th, 2007 at 10:59 amPeople who’d rather spit on a decorated war veteran while listening to a chickenhawk LIAR are the BIGGEST LIABILITY to the American way of life than the most extreme Jihadist since they both feed off each other and perpetuate the stereotypical fear for the most close-minded.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:00 amLets see if any of you dishonorable people have anything to say about tobey’s glee.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:00 amComment by Vince P — February 18, 2007 @ 10:48 am
Talk about being detached from reality and just plain stupid! The people of the world see this as a Bush Repuke war. They are mad at Americans in general because we allowed him to become president and for not having the balls to impeach him.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:00 amBrit the draft dodger has no standing to comment about Murtha’s views on the war, or anything else.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:00 amSeriously, does any of this rise to the level of slander, defamation of character? Isn’t Hume actually saying Murtha is mentally incompetent to do his job? Hmm, maybe there’s some other people we could give a psychological evaluation to.. On the other hand, can a sitting Congressman sue Fox for that?
But if you really want to make this accusation, you need look no further than Strom ‘the pecker knows no bigotry’ Thurmond. He LITERALLY had to have people tell him what to say, for chrissakes. And he was Trent Lott’s hero…
February 18th, 2007 at 11:00 amThe “Washington Post” is a poor reference for sanity on aWol’s war.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:03 amBecause even Bush said that there’s never going to be NO car bombings – so how many car bombings is okay and still allow us to leave? With their logic we’ll be there forever!!
Comment by margaret — February 18, 2007 @ 10:56 am
Exactly. The War Profiteers will continue to thrive, however. Their profits are measured in the Billions, while their losses are measured in other people’s kid’s lives. In other words, to a War Profiteer, there is no down-side to unending War. Unending War means Unending Profits. But Peace? Peace would put them out of business. As Bush said, “Profit trumps peace.”
February 18th, 2007 at 11:04 amBriseadh na Faire requested: “Gee…do you have any sources, citations, evidence about your claim? Or are you merely making up “factsâ€?”
My answer:
You were saying?
February 18th, 2007 at 11:04 amComment by Tobey Tall
We have done better than everyone else. We are the ones that put We The People into law above all else. The rest of the world has been following us ever since.
America is not the problem. History has shown that individuals who are willing to take advantage of a system set up by good people can harm many.
This is the bush/rightwinger war.
We didnt want it for reasons that have to do with what is in OUR rule book.. the Declaration of Independance and the U.S. Constitution.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:05 amWe need organization in this country to combat and understand some very viscous and ignorant people. ( both people in power and also little people like post #8.
How about a group with a Three Pronged Agenda in the context of taking our country back and restoring the Constitution:
1. Thoroughly research and clarify the structure of the Media in this country and challenge it.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:06 am2. Thoroughly research and clarify the extent to which corporations have infiltrated the people’s government and endangered Democracy.
3.Thoroughly research and clarify the extent of corruption in the present government and ways to hold them accountable.
This is coming from someone whose fellow conservatives on the floor this week used brilliant arguments such as “get ‘er done” and railed against “In Mohammad We Trust” as arguments for the war … so which side is incompetent and dumb?
February 18th, 2007 at 11:06 amHow would Mr. Hume know? He is a journalist!
February 18th, 2007 at 11:07 amTobey: We’ll send you the bill for all the damaged caused when the Islamic Caliphate of Mesopotamia unleashes the final Jihad against all Kuffars.
Comment by Vince P
You people are so chicken shit…. RUSSIA has far FAR more power than the arabs will ever have. We have THOUSANDS of nukes… EXACTLY how are these religious nuts going to conquer us? They cant. Change your diaper.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:07 amComment by Tobey Tall — February 18, 2007 @ 10:58 am
You were saying?
Comment by Vince P — February 18, 2007 @ 11:04 am
So now Tobey speaks for the entire world ?
February 18th, 2007 at 11:09 amGerald Gibson Jr :
The Democrats all voted for the Iraqi War. They are just as responsible. You people are such cowards. Falling over yourselves to deflect responsiblity. Own up to the fact that (according to the lie you all accept) the Democrats were deceived by an incompetent adminstration. That somehow a spell was placed on all teh very smart and future-predicting democrats and they all voted for the war before they were against it.
Liars, hypocrites, traitors, seditious. – The “Progressives”. I laugh.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:09 amI’m sure glad we have people like Hume who served in the military to set straight the people like Murtha who didn’t serve.
Oh, shoot. Damn you Reality with your Liberal Bias!!!
- Tom
February 18th, 2007 at 11:10 amAnd a good morning to all…Brit is a putz, no one I know watches his or any fox crap…BTW brit when were you in Iraq and how much time have you served in our military.?….Not a new’s person just a bush boot licker, advetisement whore…
BnF…Read an article by Kuchench(sp) a couple of month’s ago that the fund’s for withdrawel are in place and available….Don’t know if it is true but worth a look see by one of our researchers……Blessings and Peace
February 18th, 2007 at 11:10 amOr…9/11 happened because the people at PNAC/AEI needed a new “Pearl Harbor” to increase the power of the President at the expense of the Constitution, civil liberties and international human rights. 9/11, whomever caused it, provided a great excuse for American Imperialism.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:10 amDeclaration of Independance and the U.S. Constitution.
Eh Thats that piece of paper that means Jack ????
February 18th, 2007 at 11:11 ams: You guys should form a Committee of Public Safety.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:11 amWhat i find truly hilarious about the trolling pundits, is that they are out in force when Brit gives them an abusive talking point… I see a lot less of them when they have to come up with their personal attacks. Guess it shows the kind of intelligence we are dealing with.
Murtha is an intelligent, thoughful politician, not perfect, but, certainly not the senile disconnected man paints him out to be. Brit could only dream of having such an honorable life.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:11 amBrit Hume thinks that just because he works for Fox, then he has the knowledge about what is going on in Iraq and the whole Middle East sitting in FOX studio ‘political entertainment’ news room.
Not only that he has the knowledge,but he has also the sharp tongue to criticise others who are not in line with FOX & Rupert Murdock agenda.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:12 am>So now Tobey speaks for the entire world ?
Comment by Joefriday — February 18, 2007 @ 11:09 am
Idiot statement of the day.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:12 amTo # 50 Gerald Gibson Jr.
Your BREATH TAKING ignorance and lack of humanity is only trumped by your vulgarity.
Let me put it in words you can understand. Your hateful post, sir, is dumb as dirt.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:12 amLets celebrate two more murdering stealing Rapist American troops bit the bullet today – Yee Haa
Comment by Tobey Tall — February 18, 2007 @ 10:52 am
Tobey – go to http://www.redstate.com and post.
You are insulting and attacking the anti-war crowd here.
Until you do something about Tony Blair – you have no room to criticize the liberals in America.
Come to think of it – if we=Bush, then you=Blair and you should start attacking yourself.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:13 amComment by Vince P
The democrats did not vote for this war. They voted for military action IF…. read the IFs… it was not for whatever Bush wanted. He violated the 2002 authorization. The democrats gave bush the benefit of the doubt that he would use that power responsibly. He did not. That was their mistake. They didnt call out bush as a cheney puppet and instead gave him the benefit of the doubt.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:14 amComment by Vince P — February 18, 2007 @ 11:04 am
I’m saying you just branded yourself a liar.
I asked for citations to back up a claim you made at 10:48, and all you provided was a post made at 10:58.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:15 amLets see if any of you dishonorable people have anything to say about tobey’s glee.
Comment by Vince P — February 18, 2007 @ 11:00 am
It’s just not possible for you to post on comment without insulting everyone, is it?
Go see the thread below this one, and then come back and apologize.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:15 amComment by s
Then prove it.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:17 amLiars, hypocrites, traitors, seditious. – The “Progressivesâ€. I laugh.
Comment by Vince P — February 18, 2007 @ 11:09 am
Laugh at this-When Bush travels to any other country he can’t go out in public because he is hated. Bill Clinton can travel to almost any country and be treated with respect and admiration. BTW your post described you and your support group. I smirke.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:17 amComment by s
And your naivete as illustrated in your “3 prong attack” is seriously “out of touch with reality”, cause NONE of these things WILL EVER COME TO PASS in the New America dominated by partisonship bickering and the constant grasping for control.
“Got dirt?”
February 18th, 2007 at 11:17 ammy opinion, tobey should be ignored… as should vince…
so not worth the time and trouble…
i happened to catch a half minute of snow on MTP, before my stomach turned and i had to go back to sunday morning…
February 18th, 2007 at 11:19 amsurely the snowjob had some choice words we would love to hear about…
this is the only way i can stand it…
It looks like someone hijacked Toby Tall’s name.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:19 amSHut up liberals, he is senile, and stupid, to think we can just leave Iraq. Liberals have a hard time with reality.
Comment by Shoelimpy™
Troll alert! So tell us what the reality is. Is it the ‘islamofascist’ (projection to end all projection) forming a caliphate to take over the world? Hamas, Hezbollah, Quds Force, al-Qaeda, Sunni, Shia, they’re all the same right? Exactly that kind of ignorance that got us into the mess we’re in over there! Put down the Kool-Aid and step away from the cup.
Even if Murtha IS senile and stupid, he’s got a far better awareness of reality than Brit or Tony Snow or those fascists who are turning the republic into a dictatorship.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:19 amYou have to be a liar to be ‘Conservative’ because the label doesn’t fit the true definition. They have to lie to themselves everyday. Just like everything else the Neo-Cons touch, the true meaning of Conservatism has been corrupted to mean the exact opposite.
Good luck pointing out the obvious to these poor, self-deluded fools.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:19 amSpeaking of the UK, they are deciding very shortly whether or not they’re going to keep a Navy of any significance. If they decide not, say good bye to the British fleet.
So between the Labor party demilitarization of the UK and the Democratic party push to have us leave Iraq, the West is basically abandoning the world for the Jihadis to conquer.
Don’t you understand the significance of this? An Islamic Dark Age awaits the future and you folks are part and parcel of it taking shape. Islam conquered the world from Spain to India in 100 years after Mohemmed died. The moral conviction of a Jihadi is a military threat not to be underestimated. All those nations/cultures who underestimated it in the past are no longer in the world today
February 18th, 2007 at 11:21 amI asked for citations to back up a claim you made at 10:48, and all you provided was a post made at 10:58.
Comment by Briseadh na Faire — February 18, 2007 @ 11:15 am
LOL. ok you’re dumb as rocks. You should fit in fine here.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:22 am#’s 66 and 68
66 – I need not prove what most people can see here, for themselves. Thankfully.
68 As for my “three pronged Naivete”:
February 18th, 2007 at 11:23 amPeople who use the word never are not the kind of people that will restore this country. If you prefer to live in the slime, so be it. We will do it without you.
unbelievable: you only attacked him because he didn’t attack the UK PM first. Presumablely if he had done that, then what he said is ok. Logic, not to be found here.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:24 amThe press no longer has any protection, and there is no motivation for being impartial. There are only a handful of journalists left who care more about the truth than the continuity of their paycheck, and they live in a day when news is judged by volume, not content. The ‘free press’ is dead.
And with it, collective democracy.
Nothing has changed, but realize that the dream is over.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:25 amI don’t get it. How do conservatives deal when they are playing a board game like monopoly or risk and lose? do they pout and claim that it isn’t over, they can still win, even though they have no holdings left on the board?
I say this because they do not seem to realize that with the way things are going in Iraq, we have already lost. They think that just with this surge, this last push, that we will win.
We cannot win with a volunteer army. Just not possible in a situation that requires the occupation of the territory the size of Iraq. The fighting in Iraq is a war of attrition. As long as our troops are there, our military becomes weaker and weaker as readiness declines, and the bar is lowered in order to fulfill recruitment quotas. Meanwhile, our troops being there energizes the insurgents, gives them a recruiting tool. They are fighting a guerrilla war, so they do not need the manpower nor the weapons that our standing army requires to be successful. They also have the support of the people (in many cases they are the people), and they know the land.
Going into a war without the knowledge nor required equipment and with a mentality that you will win, no matter what, is not a winning solution. Tactically we have failed in Iraq. To not lose the so called war on terror, one must make the sound strategic decision and admit that Iraq is not going to get any better by us staying there. If the trolls need a bone, then we can call it a victory and get out.
We cannot win any battle, never mind a war, if we let our army deteriorate as this administration and the republicans have allowed. Murtha’s plan has the interest of winning the war and giving our troops the rest, support and equipment they need.
If we were going to win in Iraq, then we need a draft. I doubt that is going to happen. I would suggest that everyone here who supports the war sign up and suit up, but I do not think that is the kind of help the troops would appreciate at this point.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:25 amThis would be a nice world by now if it were not for America acting to keep the world from progress
I have still to meet any European , African or Asian that would say America did NOT deserve 911, All persons I spoke to said its about time America has a slap on the face…….. I agree
we all feel sorry about the firefighters and police caught up in The twin towers tumbling down but thats all
911 Happened because
A/ were jealous of your freedom ( As if)
B/ we dont like Bush
C/ we sick of Americas Foreign policy
answer to solution
February 18th, 2007 at 11:26 amA/ Change foreign Policy
B/ Start killing people and Blame Bin laden
C/ Keep the world from Progress for the next 50 years
Conservative: All those groups all share the same strategic goal, where they vary is tactics. They all implement the Method of Mohommed in their own way, but make no mistake.. they are all striving toward the same eventual goal.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:26 amVince P……what’s bothering you? You are not a happy camper, obviously. You thrive on bile boy. Get a life and become part of the solution. Quit getting your jollies out of destruction and start building something with others. Or is that too “commy” for ya? And another thing…….if you think you sound powerful because you’re supporting a corrupt, hateful, and dishonest media pundit ( and government) you are really scarping the bottom of the barrel. Hate doesn’t get you there…..
February 18th, 2007 at 11:28 amWho cares what Brittany Hume has to say. He’s just another fruity chickenhawk liar. pspspspspspspsspspspspsp here pussypussy…gooood giiirl..Faux News luvs you
February 18th, 2007 at 11:28 amNotice how Vince rope-a-dopes around BnF’s inquiring like those lying right-wing chickenhawks who try to smear decorated war veterans do anytime someone dares to ask anything approaching a challenging question.
Sorry, Vince but following the posting you offered nothing but someone else’s post then resorted to name calling. Seems like maybe deep down you know the true reality. There may be hope for you after all.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:30 amAll those nations/cultures who underestimated it in the past are no longer in the world today
Comment by Vince P
The military realities of today makes your point MUTE. We are far beyond swords. The arabs are only barely beyond swords.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:31 amThinkProgress,
The “headline” of this thread is blatantly dishonest. No where in the clipor transcript does Hume say that Murtha is “senile” or even use the word “senile.” Hume says Murth has not the “awareness of what the heck is going on in the world.” That is hardly synonymous with saying that Murtha is suffering from the senility (which, by the way, TP is a fairly antiquated term).
Not only does Hume never use the word “senile,” the next sentence shows that Hume is saying that Murtha’s lack of awareness of what is going on in the world stems from “naivete,” not senility.
We, of course, realize that ThinkProgress is not a pure news provider and is not subject to recognized journalistic standards of objectivity. As a partisan site, TP is certainly entitled to editoralize and characterize. But the headline of rhis thread goes way beyond editorializing. It is simply, 100% dishonest.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:31 amTobey: i wouldnt gloat over there in Europe. Your continent-wide Civil War or dhimittude will be happening in your life time.
Don’t look at us to save you from that.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:31 am66 – I need not prove what most people can see here, for themselves. Thankfully.
Comment by s
Yes you do or you are just another troll.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:32 amWhen did Bret Hume get so far out in outer space? I thaught he was a perty good news caster until he went to FOX. It goes to show you what money can do
February 18th, 2007 at 11:33 amWe will do it without you.
Comment by s
Yes, and what GREAT job you’ve done so far!
LOL, you’re naive because the ONLY way to get rid of the corruption in government is to REVOLT, which will never happen.
Happy camping!
February 18th, 2007 at 11:34 amThe Jihad (2003 – 2007)
http://vincep312.home.comcast.net/TROP011307.jpg
- Location of attacks worldwide
http://vincep312.home.comcast.net/attacksjan2007.jpg
- Line graph of attacks per month
http://vincep312.home.comcast.net/globalattacks.jpg
- Deaths per country
http://vincep312.home.comcast.net/attacks.html
February 18th, 2007 at 11:36 amThe hacks over at Faux News are really coming unglued.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:37 amThey don’t even pretent that they aren’t partisan ideologues any longer.
The most defining emotion that people like Vince P – and a lot of those in the conservative “movement” , as in “pile”, have is FEAR.
The fear is so strong they can’t handle it. This drives ALL their thinking, their swift boating, their sleazy retorts, etc etc etc. I’m not saying there are not threats in the world, by people like the above amplifiy these threats ( often for ulterior motives as those in power are now doing) until they create more suffering than the actual threat. They are not rational or moral in the sense of caring for their fellow man.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:37 amunbelievable: you only attacked him because he didn’t attack the UK PM first. Presumablely if he had done that, then what he said is ok. Logic, not to be found here.
Comment by Vince P — February 18, 2007 @ 11:24 am
I see you didn’t go to the thread below this one to see that the comments STARTED there about an hour ago… Figures.
So I’ll tell you what you missed – you were WRONG Vince.
I called him on it, and it had nothing to do with Tony Blair.
Now apologize.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:39 amExley, as someone defending a group of fundamentally, fatally dishonest people like this administration and their hacks on radio and TV, there’s a great deal of projection in your statement!
Hmmm…I normally just say my piece and get outta here, I don’t typically take to calling people out like this.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:39 amVince,
Get a life! Don’t you have a sock drawer to re-arrange OR SOMETHING!
You crack me up! Jihad watch! F*cking chickens*t cowards! You have so little faith in the US that you actually believe they could conquer us?
That’s so laughable, you anti-American fool!
February 18th, 2007 at 11:39 am…do you intentionally make your site look like that Vince? F-U-G-L-Y, just plain BAD. But does shed light on your dim-wittedness!
February 18th, 2007 at 11:40 amComment by Vince P
Now post all the world wide murders. And rapes… hell show us the world wide murder rate of women by christians on a witch hunt in the year 1593?
The arabs are not building up a military that can come to America and attack us. They cant do it. Even Russia cant do that without being sunk a short ways off their own shores.
Hysteria.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:41 ambut make no mistake.. they are all striving toward the same eventual goal.
Oh really? Seems to me they’re too hellbent on destroying EACH OTHER for that to be realistic. You seem to be assuming there’s some type of ‘Terrorist UN’ out there. And by the way it’s CONservative, emphasis on the CON that’s being perpetrated by the fascists and defended by people such as yourself.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:42 amHere is the truth about neo-conservatives like Vince P:
They are stupid. They are not only nuts, they are stupid. They know they are stupid. They resent the rest of the world for being brighter then them.
Think about it, how in the light of the K Street scandal, probably the best organised bribery ring in the history of influence peddling, can someone still try to claim that Republicans are honest? Stupidity, that’s how.
How can someone claim that Iraq is a big mess, that it was a mistake to go in in the first place, and then go on about how it is irresponsible to say so? Stupidity, that’s how.
How can someone, in view of the country being in two wars, neither of which looks good at the moment, claim that invading a third country would be a good idea? Stupidity, that’s how.
How can someone claim to support the troops, and then support cutting funding to veterans, and sending troops into a warzone without adequate armour? Stupidity, that’s how.
How can someone in one breath claim to be in favour of fiscal responsibility and then in the next oppose getting rid of America’s biggest optional expense in the next? Stupidity, that’s how.
And why is it, that the rightwing is so downright unpleasant, even when things go well for them? Because they resent the fact that other people aren’t stupid. That’s how.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:44 amThere is no reason to crap ones pants over a foreign culture or religion. Being afraid of conquest by something one doesn’t understand only exposes ones own insecurities and detachment from reality. Throughout history those with comfort also piss themselves thinking they are gonna be overrun by the unwashed masses who they take blatant economic advantage of. They use the ‘primitive’ beliefs of those people to belittle and bedevil them. All of a sudden, the poor man who works to subsist and is just asking for a little more becomes a great threat, and all of a sudden we find out they are Irish Catholics, the lazy farmers who allowed their harvest to rot and then came over here to overthrow our democracy with Popery.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:44 amIs it in any way surprising that these same people now demonize Mexican immigrants and Muslims? It is only by sheer circumstance that a large amount of Muslims inhabit regions in which we rape them of their wealth of natural resources. This is why they are pissed off and united in an anti-western ideal. If you want to quell the rise of fundamentalist Islam, you cannot fight it, you can not beat it into submission. To win our society must halt its rape of their lands, of their resources, and create a balanced, symbiotic relationship in which all our peoples can prosper.
You mean they didn’t train their solidiers to come here and attack the Pentagon and the WTC?
Are you one of those Bush-Did-It idiots?
February 18th, 2007 at 11:46 amGerald Gibson Jr. …I owe you an apology….I read over all your posts. I confused you with someone else. Someone like Vince P
February 18th, 2007 at 11:47 amSeems to me they’re too hellbent on destroying EACH OTHER for that to be realistic.
Comment by CONservative — February 18, 2007 @ 11:42 am
This is perhaps the biggest neocon hypocrisy, after the anti-murder stance of murders hypocrisy, that they say they want to bring peace to the Middle East and stop them from killing one another… which they go about bringing with war.
Ridiculous at best…
February 18th, 2007 at 11:47 amDont take my word for it… listen to the Muslims say for themselves what they plan on doing..
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=EA0270E133DC8334
Dispatches, UK Channel 4, aired 15th January 2007. Radicalisation of UK mosques
February 18th, 2007 at 11:48 amThis, from someone who commits libel here on a regular basis.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:49 amHume does not have the foggiest awareness of anything. He is a braindead moron who spews baloney on FOX Phony News.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:52 amHey Vince,
“Boo!!!” Little coward baby…
February 18th, 2007 at 11:52 amAnd why is it, that the rightwing is so downright unpleasant, even when things go well for them? Because they resent the fact that other people aren’t stupid. That’s how.
Comment by Bruce Gorton — February 18, 2007 @ 11:44 am
As usual – nailon the head.
I frequently notice that they are incapable of understanding a lot of what we say – at which point they being to call us names. My father always used to tell me that a person reached the height of his intelligence at the point that he began to insult the person rather than the argument.
Vince, Jason, MA, and those like them demonstrate this with each and every visit.
And considering that Vince starts off his very first post in each thread with an insult, he validates your explanation.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:52 amAre you one of those Bush-Did-It idiots?
Comment by Vince P
I dont know who did it. I do know that it is OUR fault we didnt stop those few people. I also know that it is IMPOSSIBLE to have FREEDOM and have complete protection from crime from small groups of individuals. I would like to stop all abortion bombers… but I am not going to round up all the christians and put them into Haliburton build “detention centers” to make damn sure there is never another abortion bombing. Reality is fleeting for you.
You dont start wars over the actions of a few people. If that is how it worked we would be at war with China right now for dicking with our airforce after bush got in office. Hell we would be in constant war 100% of the time because small groups of individuals will eventually succeed.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:52 amComment by Vince P — February 18, 2007 @ 11:48 am
Apologize first.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:53 amVince P.
Do you lump every Christian with Fundamentalist Christians who say everyone who refuses to follow their way is going to hell, and that we should convert non-Christians (such as Muslims) by force if necessary?
February 18th, 2007 at 11:53 amComment by s
No problem I started thinking that is what happened from reading your own posts.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:53 amDont take my word for it… listen to the Muslims say for themselves what they plan on doing..
http://www.youtube.com/ view_play_list?p=EA0270E133DC8334
Dispatches, UK Channel 4, aired 15th January 2007. Radicalisation of UK mosques
Comment by Vince P
Would you like us to post what christians in THIS country say they want to do?
February 18th, 2007 at 11:54 amAshenShard: The dogma of Islam is not a function of what Christians do or dont do. Your argument doesn’t change my premise.
Watch the Dispatches link I gave, and tell me you think then.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:57 amComment by Vince P — February 18, 2007 @ 11:46 am
My God! You got something right!
And, for whatever it’s worth, the alleged hijackers got their flight training in the United States. We trained them!
February 18th, 2007 at 11:57 amOkay Vince P
You want to talk about the Arabs being out to get you. Never mind the fact that they couldn’t even conquor Israel, which is smack bang in the middle of them, lets talk about the funding for this invasion.
The major source of funds would be oil-money. You see, without oil the Arabs are basically like the Africans, so shit poor that they aren’t a threat to anybody.
So tell me Vince P, what are you doing to cut funding for this invasion?
February 18th, 2007 at 11:57 amGerald: Changing the subject doesn’t invalidate my premise. However, that’s the constant tactic of all those who are unwilling to examine Islam for fear of what they’ll find.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:58 amFaux Noise they are part of the problem. No thought process just a robotic talking head. Ask Hume how many years he served in the Military, ask the Cluck, Cluck Republicans what their total time in active duty is, Yet the Low Life scum who have nothing to offer constructively lie mislead and manipulate twisting the truth to their advantage kind of like a minister in a church.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:59 amNOTICE how hume doesn’t attack the repukulan Senate for not have the Courage to answer the American people, the Cluck, clucks of the Senate like their Cowardly boss lie hide (COWARDS).
How come the PUKES in the Media and Senate always attack people of CHARACTER, I notice they don’t have anyne of character in the repukulan party, lots of TRAITORS,LIARS,THEIVES and SPINELESSNESS.
As far as this jihadi watch thing goes it seems to me that instead of reacting to the radicals we’d be better off searching out the true moderates and give THEM the attention.
Of course, I don’t trust the current administration one bit to do that properly. The Bush/Cheny gang prefers to inflame the radicals by trying to “pacify” them and funneling money and weapons to people who might turn those weapons on us some day.
February 18th, 2007 at 12:00 pmBrit; Your spending way to much time kissing Rupert Merdocks ass. don’t you know the air down there will turn you into a retard. Opps! too late.
February 18th, 2007 at 12:01 pm#114 Vince P.
The dogma of any mass religion is similar, and my point which you seem to have totally missed or ignored, is that there are a minority of christians who spout off in the same way as a minority of muslims do, and they just because they are violent or bigots does not make the entire religion a faith of violence or bigotry. Just because some Muslims spout off, doesn’t mean every Muslim does. Just as because you seem to be pissing your pants over these threats, doesn’t mean every westerner does. BTW, if Islam is such a violent religion focused on world domination, why do many say it is a religion of peace, and convert for that very reason?
February 18th, 2007 at 12:03 pmBruce: Whats the point of your statements… they dont go to what I was saying, just rambling mess trying to take pot shots to impress yourself.
February 18th, 2007 at 12:03 pmmargaret: There are moderate Muslims but there is no moderate Islam. That’s the crux of the problem.
February 18th, 2007 at 12:04 pmWould you like us to post what christians in THIS country say they want to do?
Comment by Gerald Gibson Jr — February 18, 2007 @ 11:54 am
You mean like this:
“[The United States may have to] burn a couple of nations down”.
“I’ve read the Koran, and I believe Allah’s proper name is Lucifer.”
– James Ammerson, Retired Colonel; member of the Texas-based American Veterans in Domestic Defense, in a speech after rambling through several topics ranging from Moore’s monument to President Bush’s portrayal of Islam as a peaceful religion, at a December 16, 2002, rally in support of Judge Roy Moore’s placing of a 5280-pound granite monument of an abbridged version of the Protestant listing of the first stone tablets edition of ten religious edicts of a minority tribe of ancient Hebrews, quoted from Conrad Goeringer, “Moore holds firm as judge may issue stay — supporters, separationists face off in Montgomery” (AANEWS: December 20, 2002)
February 18th, 2007 at 12:07 pmAre they dangerous? Sure. But these speakers, featured here, are more interested in being the Muslim equivalent of rock stars than anything else.
February 18th, 2007 at 12:08 pmWhy are the faces of the “believers” in this video blurred out? Wouldn’t it be great to know who’s spending time in this mosque? Wouldn’t it be nice to know who’s accepting funding from Saudi Arabia? Too bad our Saudi allies are really our enemy… and they’re already well inside the American “tent.”
Ashen: All religions are not the same. Islam is the only religion that has commands for its believers in all time to conquer the world militarily. And so they have been trying for 1,400 years. Muslims are told to follow the example of Mohemmed. Do I need to say the things that Mohemmed has done?
Stop assuming what Islam says and actually look at what the Koran , Hadith and Sira have to say about Jihad. The evidence of overwhelming and the condition of the world today is a consequence.
February 18th, 2007 at 12:08 pm“Remind yourself that in this night you will face many challenges. But you have to face them and understand it 100 percent…. Obey God, his messenger, and don’t fight among yourself where you become weak, and stand fast, God will stand with those who stood fast.”
Okay Vince… Who said the above quote?
February 18th, 2007 at 12:09 pmAttention Arab jihadists. Please come to the USA, we need ‘regime change’ in Washington. We will greet you as liberators with flowers and candy. No shit.
February 18th, 2007 at 12:13 pmAnd so they have been trying for 1,400 years.
Comment by Vince P — February 18, 2007 @ 12:08 pm
1400 years of “failure” and you suddenly think they are due? LOL
You still owe me an apology. Are you not man enough to admit you were wrong? Figures.
February 18th, 2007 at 12:13 pmI have the screwdriver right here; I can tighten up Brit Hume’s right wing threaded loose screws.
February 18th, 2007 at 12:15 pm“I know it sounds somewhat Machiavellian and evil, to think that you could send a squad in to take out somebody like Osama bin Laden, or to take out the head of North Korea, but isn’t it better to do something like that, to take out Milosevic, to take out Saddam Hussein, rather than to spend billions of dollars on a war that harms innocent civilians and destroys the infrastructure of a country?”
– Pat Robertson, The 700 Club television program, August 9, 1999, quoted in Martin McLaughlin, “Pat Robertson favors assassinations,” August 14, 1999
February 18th, 2007 at 12:16 pm#126 Vince P.
Just because the Koran says it doesn’t mean it is followed or believed. Look at the bible. If half the things in it were followed, how low would our population be from stoning?
The condition of the world today is not due to Jihadists but to the stupid republicans in this country and people who piss themselves every time they see a shadow. Rather than being gullible and blaming problems on the religion that happens to be followed by a lot of poor people in the world, we should look at the real problem and the question to this problem is: why are there such a concentration of poverty? And its not the fault of Islam, its the fault of US corporations who put profit over life, and our consumer interests which demand cheap goods, and rape the wealth of these regions to acquire them. Take away poverty, and you take away the appeal of radical islam, not to mention radical christianity and any other religion which becomes radicalized when a mass of people can barely make subsistence.
February 18th, 2007 at 12:16 pmWhat? That’s the best come-up-with-a-way-to-ignore-them idea I’ve read in a loooong time. So , they dont actually believe what they are saying.. but instead wanted to be a rockstar by being secretly filmed while preaching hate in the middle of the UK?
It’s preachers like those who are militarizing muslims in the UK and they preach from the authority of the Koran.
It’s amazing the amount of patronizing the Left does toward theses people.
Um, its an undercover investigation that could result in peope’s deaths. Plus I think there are laws about not showing people without authorization but that might be just France.
Well first you have to be curious enough to check what is being said instead of assuming they jsut a bunch of harmless sand people with silly ideas.
But gee, its obvious who is getting the money… THEY ARE.
February 18th, 2007 at 12:17 pmunbelievable stupidly thinks the Muslims in the UK are watching the 700 club.
February 18th, 2007 at 12:18 pmGerald: Changing the subject doesn’t invalidate my premise. However, that’s the constant tactic of all those who are unwilling to examine Islam for fear of what they’ll find.
Comment by Vince P
I examined Islam years ago after 911. I have already seen what the religious nut muslims in britian say. It is exactly the same crap the christian religious nuts say… which is my point. The christians have their group of crazies just like the muslims. The christians have been going on about it long before 911. Oklahoma City, abortion bombers, warriors for Jesus, saying America is turning against their god so it will be destroyed like sodom if it does not do what the religious right wants… change of subject? Hardly… just another example to show you not to take the religious crazies so seriously. Keep an eye on them for sure because they occasionally pull a Jim Jones…. or 911…. but acting like they are about to invade is just plain chicken shit.
February 18th, 2007 at 12:20 pmAshen: you dont know what you’re talking about. islam isn’t a product of your silly wishful thinking.
February 18th, 2007 at 12:21 pmunbelievable stupidly thinks the Muslims in the UK are watching the 700 club.
Comment by Vince P — February 18, 2007 @ 12:18 pm
Bruce was dead on about you.
I was pointing out that Pat Robertson is in favor of assassinating the leaders of other countries, which shows him that the crazy Muslim extremists are no different from the crazy Christian extremists and he thinks I’m suggesting that Muslims watch Pat Roberston. LOL
Keep dodging the fact that I proved you wrong and you cannot admit it.
February 18th, 2007 at 12:23 pmThis just proves what hypocrites conservatives are. They constantly demand the 10 Commandments be posted everywhere, yet never miss an opportunity to bear false witness against their neighbor.
February 18th, 2007 at 12:24 pmmargaret: There are moderate Muslims but there is no moderate Islam. That’s the crux of the problem.
Comment by Vince P
Where was the moderate christianity when it was burning innocent women alive calling them witches? Where were the christians at when these women were screaming for mercy?
He without sin cast the first stone…. everyone else work on changing people to turn the other cheek.
February 18th, 2007 at 12:24 pmGerald Gibson insists on conflating things that are not comparable.
February 18th, 2007 at 12:24 pmBush’s end run around congress begins….
Conservatives to Bush: Issue More Executive Orders
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/070215/15orders.htm?s_cid=rss:site1
February 18th, 2007 at 12:25 pmHere you go Vince, Pat Roberston blames YOU for, well, everything:
“If the widespread practice of homosexuality will bring about the destruction of your nation, if it will bring about terrorist bombs, if it’ll bring about earthquakes, tornadoes and possibly a meteor, it isn’t necessarily something we ought to open our arms to.”
– Pat Robertson, The 700 Club television program, August 6, 1998, on the occasion of the Orlando, Florida, Gay Pride Festival 199
February 18th, 2007 at 12:26 pmAre there some scholars here in the house? What is the word that describes when FoxNews reports as “fact” what they simply have only “heard” or “contrived” a rumor to be reported as such?
I know there is a fancier word than “projection”
Can anyone help?
February 18th, 2007 at 12:28 pm#136 Vince P.
I know exactly what I am talking about, and so do most of the others here. We present evidence, examples and logic, which you ignore as irrelevant because it does not fit in with what you want to believe.
February 18th, 2007 at 12:29 pmBrit speculates that Murtha doesn’t know what is going on in Iraq. George Bush, said in this week’s news conferemce that he didn’t know what is going on in Iraq because he lives in the beautiful White House in The US of A. Bush is empty headed.
February 18th, 2007 at 12:29 pmunthinkable: I ignore you because nothing you say directly addresses what I have said. I dont give two rips about Pat robertson. He isnt’ the point, and I’m not going there with you. So make all the baby noise and goo goo gah gahs and gnashing of teeth you want. You’re stupid, obtuse, and intellectually crippled.
February 18th, 2007 at 12:30 pmHume is stupid… he doesn’t have the foggiest idea about what’s going on in his brain.
See, that was easy to say.
February 18th, 2007 at 12:30 pmGerald Gibson insists on conflating things that are not comparable.
Comment by Vince P — February 18, 2007 @ 12:24 pm
TRANSLATION: Vince got his a$$ kicked again.
February 18th, 2007 at 12:30 pmDoes anyone else remember when the “news” programs just reported the news?
Of course, they always had the ability to influence their listeners by getting to choose WHICH news events to report, but the so-called “newscasters” at Fox rant on and on with their opinions without even reporting the news!
February 18th, 2007 at 12:31 pmGerald Gibson insists on conflating things that are not comparable.
Comment by Vince P
If you believe your own words then prove it. Show HOW. Otherwise I just trashed your argument and left you mumbling bs as you walk away.
February 18th, 2007 at 12:32 pmI just got this email… wish I had cable so I could see it:
Eye-Opener on Extent of Islamic Activity in US
Dear [me]
Investigative Project on Terrorism Alert
On Sunday night, February 18, on Fox’s “Hannity’s America” show, airing at 9:00pm ET, an exclusive undercover video shot by the Investigative Project on Terrorism over a series of years of a radical Islamic cleric, Sheik Abdul Alim Musa, will be broadcast on the Fox News Channel. The Imam, who presides over two mosques and a popular Islamic organization, has actually been invited to White House Ifthar dinners.
The Investigative Project on Terrorism (IPT) shot this undercover video of Musa during a period of 7 years. About 5 minutes of incendiary IPT video is expected to be broadcast at around 9:30pm ET during which time Hannity will be confronting Musa live about his violent exhortations. Later this year, the Investigative Project on Terrorism will be releasing the full out-takes of the extremist speeches and rallies led by Musa calling for suicide bombings and his violent anti-Semitic and anti-American speeches. What is most shocking is the degree to which Musa has achieved “mainstream” status in the Muslim community
February 18th, 2007 at 12:32 pmThe Dems better hope that GW doesn’t (1) succeed and/or (2) pull the troops out tommorrow b/c if either happens then they have little to run on in ‘08. For all the bashing, GW’s Iraq debacle gives the Dems a free ride and rhetoric to fill the news channels for months w/o ever having to put forth a plan of their own. As strong as the Dem position appears to be now, just think back to Dec. ‘04 when GW stated he planned to use the “political capital” gained by the recent election. Who would have predicted the pickle that he and Repub’s are in now? Noone, that’s who – hence the Dem’ had better tread lightly and plan accordingly.
The Dem’s problem is this though: the troops could be home by July 4th if the Pelosi and Co. had the moral and political fortitude to do it, but they don’t. For the simple reason that once they take that step, they then own the Iraq problem and if disaster results (genocide, more Iranian/Syrian involvement, etc.) they OWN it. Not a great place to be in 24 mos. out from a national election. Repub’s actually are actually in a better position politically-IOW’s if Baghdad is secured and a significant troop drawdown occurs prior to Spring ‘08 due to GW’s efforts, then Dem’s are screwed as they’ll have the “Defeatist Dove” hung around their neck going into Nov ‘08. I sense that the Dems know the significant risk of their current position which explains the vehemence of their current position. They can’t afford for GW to make any progress. As for Murtha, his comments aside (which were stupid, if for no other reason than it provides fodder for the Repub’s) if Pelosi is as smart as she is purported to be, then a stern phone call to Jack which involves “KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT” is in order.
To those that doubt the above, why hasn’t Hillary repudiated her vote and declared defeat in Iraq and demanded an immediate drawdown? B/C she knows that 24 mos. in political terms is a lifetime and fortunes can be reversed as quickly as they’re gained. In short, she’s hedging her bets. Others in her party would do well to heed her lesson and plan for the future and not place all their eggs in the immediate w/d basket. At some point, the Dems will have to stop running against GW and convey to the general public WHY voters should vote for them. And it can’t be “b/c I’m not a Bush”, that only plays for so long (just ask Bob Dole). GW hatred alone won’t get the Dems into power (again just ask Bob Dole) but a coherent, fresh plan might. And I don’t think that said plan can be formulated by engaging in “chats” – we want a leader worthy of the presidency not a school marm.
February 18th, 2007 at 12:33 pm” know exactly what I am talking about, and so do most of the others here. We present evidence, examples and logic, which you ignore as irrelevant because it does not fit in with what you want to believe.”
Sorry, but quotes from the 700 Club (which Muslims dont watch), dont prove anything. That you think so is evidence of how wrong you are.
February 18th, 2007 at 12:34 pmHow does it fit?
With such a large head, one must wonder how Brit manages to keep it so firmly planted in Dick Cheney’s, Duhhbya’s and his own ass, emerging only briefly to spew his idiocies.
February 18th, 2007 at 12:34 pmTobey: We’ll send you the bill for all the damaged caused when the Islamic Caliphate of Mesopotamia unleashes the final Jihad against all Kuffars.
Comment by Vince P — February 18, 2007 @ 10:59 am
Just because Bush allowed it to happen on 9/11 doesn’t mean he’ll allow it to happen again. Vince P keep your chin up.
February 18th, 2007 at 12:34 pmunthinkable: I ignore you because nothing you say directly addresses what I have said. I dont give two rips about Pat robertson. He isnt’ the point, and I’m not going there with you. So make all the baby noise and goo goo gah gahs and gnashing of teeth you want. You’re stupid, obtuse, and intellectually crippled.
Comment by Vince P
Soooo what you are saying is that unbelievable has made you her little bitch and you think you can just bluster your way through…. well no you cant… we are all laughing at you and your beating.
February 18th, 2007 at 12:36 pmI didn’t know Michael Moore had policy positions. Is M. Moore in the House or the Senate?
Who in this day in age still says the word ‘foggiest’? Senile old tools that work for Fox. That’s who.
February 18th, 2007 at 12:36 pmFox’s rightwing hypocrisy on display as usual. Both Hume and Crystal, so absolutely wrong on every single aspect of the Iraq war, continue to demonstrate their typical hubris by delivering low blows to an American, Congressman Murtha, who actually cares about the safety and well-being of our troops. This is the right’s typical “holier than thou” bs that by now (finally) rings hollow for most Amercans.
February 18th, 2007 at 12:38 pmJack Murtha is a war hero. He has been one of the biggest supporters of the pentagon in the history of the House. Over the years he has developed strong friendships with those in the upper echelons of all of the branches of our military. Murtha would not have taken the lead in getting our troops out of Iraq many months ago if he wasn’t getting off the record support of many military leaders.
Thanks to Congressman Murtha, the Democrats took back the House this past fall. I was livid when Nancy Pelosi passed up Murtha for the position of Majority Leader. He is our best hope for getting our troops out of Iraq as soon as possible.
For Hume to disparage Murtha the way he did shows that he doesn’t support our military. He supports the war profiteers. He’s a shrill for Cheney/Bush. He’s a longtime friend of the Bush family. He used to play tennis on a regular basis with 41 while 41 was VP and President.
Just another spineless Chickenhawk.
February 18th, 2007 at 12:38 pmTo claim that Murtha is senile is really weird. What about VP Dick Cheney? If Murtha is nutty, then Dicky is bonkers > lol.
February 18th, 2007 at 12:38 pmIf the war in Iraq were really only about Iraq, then Murtha would be right on.
However, the war in Iraq has always been about drawing in terrorists to be killed- notice that Al Sad’r finally figured this out and bolted to Iran and told his militia to lie low during the surge to clear Baghdad- and to create a stategic position to pressure Iran into not pursuing nuclear weapons (the case would be better made if Bush could say nuclear, I agree).
Why the government, after all this time, hasn’t been more upfront about this reality is a shame, but understandable. How would the Iranians have reacted five years ago if they knew this had in fact been all about them. It’s good they just figured it out.
One other thing. Reps in both parties know all of this. They also know the time frame for withdrawal is about 2 to 3 more years. They also know the next issue is in fact putting the hammer down on Iran. The current rhetoric is about who gets to play majority and minority party the next decade. My bet’s on the dems keeping Congress, but not getting the Presidency, which in my humble opinion would be perfect. That way niether side can screw things up too badly.
February 18th, 2007 at 12:39 pmunthinkable:
See, instead of debating the issue, you try to insult me by making a silly and uneffective play on my name. I’ve never called you anything but Vince.
I ignore you because nothing you say directly addresses what I have said.
Oh contraire. Everything I say to you is EXACTLY in context to what you say.
You wanna kill Muslims because some of them want to take over the world. Yet you refuse to acknowledge that some Christians want the very same thing. See the connection? Same behavior by two groups. One you want to fight, the other you support.
I dont give two rips about Pat robertson. He isnt’ the point, and I’m not going there with you.
Yes, he is a very valid point. He’s the Christian equivalent to people like bin Laden.
And he hates gays… Enough to have you killed. Yet, I don’t see you afaid of him. Why the hypocrisy?
So make all the baby noise and goo goo gah gahs and gnashing of teeth you want. You’re stupid, obtuse, and intellectually crippled.
Comment by Vince P — February 18, 2007 @ 12:30 pm
Mensa will accept me as a member because my IQ is above the minimum for membership. I’m just not much of a joiner.
You?
February 18th, 2007 at 12:40 pmJay: Thick Progress is the one who called Murtha senile.
February 18th, 2007 at 12:40 pm#153 Vince P.
Are you missing the point completely, or willingly ignorant? It has been spelled out to you numerous times.
The examples given are not because Muslims watch them, but to show you that their are nutjobs in every religion who spout off similar ideas. The fact that similar ideology is be spouted by christian nuts as islamic nuts just goes to show one cannot take them as representative of that religion.
I spelled it out as clearly as anyone here could i think, and if you cannot understand it, then you are beyond the perimeter of help that rational thought can provide.
February 18th, 2007 at 12:41 pmSome try to draw a distinction between Fox “news” shows and Fox “opinion” shows in order to maintain the “fair and balanced”/”we report you decide” thing. Isn’t Brit Hume part of the “news” side of the Fox equation? Shouldn’t he be simply reporting so that we can decide?
February 18th, 2007 at 12:41 pmBeav is the only one (other than me) who speaks the truth.
February 18th, 2007 at 12:41 pmSorry, but quotes from the 700 Club (which Muslims dont watch), dont prove anything. That you think so is evidence of how wrong you are.
Comment by Vince P — February 18, 2007 @ 12:34 pm
They prove you are a hypocrite.
You fear Muslims who want to kill other people, but support Christians that wantto do that same AND hate gay people.
Clear yet?
February 18th, 2007 at 12:43 pmHowever, the war in Iraq has always been about drawing in terrorists to be killed
Comment by Beav
Really? ok … so how many have to be killed before they run out?
Did think about that did ya?
More keep coming because we make more every time we kill only PART of a family. Hell you got to kill ALL of the family or else the ones that live will want revenge. And then there is their neighbors… they get mad when we will their fellow arabs or muslims or whatever and so they decide to help the enemy of America.
In chess and war you got to think more than one step ahead at a time.
February 18th, 2007 at 12:45 pmNo Vince > TP is reporting on Hume’s comments. Hume inferred that Murtha is senile, by saying he has a foggy mind and lives in la la land.
February 18th, 2007 at 12:46 pmAnother brilliant Tourette’s outburst from Brit Hume, the kinda guy who’s such a prick he might drive his own son to commit suicide.
Oh, wait… he’s already done that!
February 18th, 2007 at 12:48 pmJay:: Oh, so its fake but accurate.
February 18th, 2007 at 12:48 pmThey are trying to paint Murtha with a Strom Thurmond Syndrome brush by being “old and so out of it”
This buys them “instant credibility” among Fox viewers, without having to refute a thing (Fox)
This is what is commonly called “sterilized character asssassination”
February 18th, 2007 at 12:48 pmthe war in Iraq has always been about drawing in terrorists to be killed
Comment by Beav — February 18, 2007 @ 12:39 pm
I candebunk thatin a single sentence:
They already had one going on in Afghanistan – they didn’t need a second one in Iraq.
Republicans don’t have a valid 2008 candidate.
February 18th, 2007 at 12:49 pmYou know what’s really fascinating… the few people who put themselves out there to change to get Islam to change, they all have to live under protection becaue their lives are at risk.
Plus their message is in total opposition to all the assumptions you peopel make about Islam.
I’ll say that again, the people out there whose lives are in physical danger, what you say in here are exactly the things those people reject.
Ayaan hirsi ali
Waleed Shoebat
waffan sultan
brigette gabriel
noonie darwish
(the list is heavily female)
All these people would say you are wrong. They lived the life, you haven’t . you haven’t read what they say, or watched them when they speak. You speak from wishful thinking , Bush hatred and ANti-Americanism.
Regressives are ignorant.
February 18th, 2007 at 12:52 pmA very close friend of mine, now 60, grew up w/ Brit in Washington DC. Brit was kicked out of the neghborhood gang in the 50’s becuase he was a jerk, goody goody, brownnoser, and tattle tale.
February 18th, 2007 at 12:54 pm*
Too bad our Saudi allies are really our enemy… and they’re already well inside the American “tent.â€
Comment by Russ — February 18, 2007 @ 12:08 pm
and have been for decades…
not to mention the 15, of 19, box-cutter weilding SAUDI hijackers…
hmmmmm… who can explain why it can’t be told, that “our Saudi allies are really our enemy”?…
February 18th, 2007 at 12:56 pm…
Ashen, there is a difference between radical Muslims and Nut Job Right Wwing Evangelical Christians (who should also shut the f up).
I bet you can figure it out.
Ahhh, ok, here’s the cheat sheet. Radical Muslims blow a lot of stuff up (notice the qualifier ” a lot”, as I recognize the NJRWECs have blown a couple things up too.
btw, Iraq is all about Iran, ask John Stewart, he pointed out that there is only a one letter difference a year ago.
February 18th, 2007 at 12:56 pmI don’t even know why they call this a ‘war on terrorism’ because it should not be a war in the conventional sense. By making it a conventional war, with terrorists as a clearly defined enemy, it only empowers them. Terrorists should not be considered a legitimate army but as common criminals and treated as such with police action being the dominant resource used against them rather than military action. A policy dominated by military action will only agitate, while one dominated by police action will have the ability to control and reduce the instances of terrorism. It must also be realized that terrorism, like any crime, will never be snuffed out.
February 18th, 2007 at 12:57 pm>hmmmmm… who can explain why it can’t be told, that “our Saudi allies are really our enemy�…
Um, common sense.
The fact you can’t figure out the reason tells me that if i were to spell it out for you, you would still be too stupid to understand. so please, stay stupid.
February 18th, 2007 at 12:59 pmAs far as I can tell Vince, Murtha is very sane and rational, but Cheney is definately bonkers and ready for the straight-jacket in a padded room > lol.
February 18th, 2007 at 1:00 pmRegressives are ignorant.
Comment by Vince P — February 18, 2007 @ 12:52 pm
Yes, you are.
You forgot Salmon Rushdie on your list.
We aren’t saying there aren’t radical extremists. We’re just saying that they aren’t the majority of Muslims, and you can’t go around killing people becuase they share the same religion with a bunch of radical nuts.
You should now make a list of people who’ve been actually killed (not just threatened) by Christians. I think the spam filter would eat it for being too long (unlike your Muslim list).
February 18th, 2007 at 1:00 pmOh look, it’s the Vinnie P Show.
Pffftt…
February 18th, 2007 at 1:00 pmComment by Vince P
Were any of those women burnt alive by a bunch of witch hunters?
All religions have this issue. If want to solve the issue then trying what the darkages humans tried which was slaughter for slaughter then you need to just shut up and sit down because that has already been tried and it only leads to even more horror. What you SHOULD be doing is asking yourself how did christianity go from an evil islamic like religion that used violence to get what it wanted to a religion that can no longer get away with that crap? How did christianity make the transition…. and there lies an answer.
February 18th, 2007 at 1:01 pm“This guy is long past the day when he had anything but the foggiest awareness of what the heck is going on in the world.†Hume called Murtha an “absolute fountain†of “naivete.�
How are these people even employed? The neo-cons and their supporters been in power the last 6 years and gotten it wrong every single step of the way. They’ve had their theories and strategies for remaking the Middle East proven categorically wrong.
If they had been this wrong in any other industry, they would of been axed long ago. Fired for gross incompetence. Fired for having no understanding of the basic workings of their chosen field.
The neo-con movement and its supporters have cost us thousands of lives, billions of dollars, set back international relations years, and created a tragically explosive environment in the Middle East.
And absolutly worst of all, they ignored overtures from Iran from all the way back in 2003 to peacefully settle all differences. That’s right, Iran was putting nukes and recognition of Israel on the table, in an attempt to settle our differences. And the neo-cons ignored it in the hopes they would get to invade Iran further along.
How are people like Hume even still employed, after getting everything so wrong?
February 18th, 2007 at 1:01 pmI dont know if you peolpe realized but i really dont care about politicians or politics or party (other than one party is traitorous and the other pathetic)
So if you think I really care that you dont like Cheney , let me tell you, I dont.
February 18th, 2007 at 1:02 pmAhhh, ok, here’s the cheat sheet. Radical Muslims blow a lot of stuff up
Comment by Beav — February 18, 2007 @ 12:56 pm
So do radical Christians.
You know who George W Bush is? (Hint: Commandard in Chief responsible for blowing up a lot of innocent Muslims in Iraq).
You should research the numbers. Bush has blown up significantly more people.
February 18th, 2007 at 1:03 pmhmmmmm… who can explain why it can’t be told, that “our Saudi allies are really our enemy�
Because 15 of the 19 911 hijackers were Saudis! … no no that would mean we attack Saudi Arabia…
Because it is on record that money was transfered from a bank account of a Saudi royal to people housing the 911 hijackers! … no no that would mean we attack Saudi Arabia…
Because when Saudi Arabia “kicked out Osama” they let him go with his 100s of millions? … no no that would mean we attack Saudi Arabia…
Just go watch Fahrenheit 911… that show explains very well why we dont blame the Saudis for 911.
February 18th, 2007 at 1:04 pmVince P.
Maybe you don’t realize it, but there is a large segment of the Muslim population that emulates our culture, especially in Iran.
Plus to claim any of us are anti-American is in itself ignorant. We just are not as ethnocentric and ignorant as you seem to be. We realize that there are dangerous people around the world and within our own country, that our country has done good and bad things. We realize that the position of our country is not always right, and at some points is dangerous and self serving.
BTW, in the interest of full disclosure I was a Bush supporter before he decided to start the adventure in Iraq. You can thank his incompetence (and likely the education i was receiving at the same time) for my evolution from a moderate to a liberal.
February 18th, 2007 at 1:05 pmGerald: Hey… we’re over here.. in the 21st Century…come back.
February 18th, 2007 at 1:05 pm“Look, this man has tremendous cache among House Democrats, but he is not — this guy is long past the day when he had anything but the foggiest awareness of what the heck is going on in the world. ”
Lets clarify this a bit. Change House Democrats with House Repugs and Goodness! They must be speaking about The Pres
February 18th, 2007 at 1:05 pmI dont know if you peolpe realized but i really dont care about politicians or politics
Comment by Vince P — February 18, 2007 @ 1:02 pm
Gee Vince, coming to a political blog sure validates that claim…
And you wonder why you have less than zero credibility here… LOL
And you still owe me an apology.
February 18th, 2007 at 1:07 pmComment by Gerald Gibson Jr — February 18, 2007 @ 1:01 pm
It morphed from a for-prophet to a for-profit institution.
February 18th, 2007 at 1:08 pmGerald,
re
Really? ok … so how many have to be killed before they run out?
Well, the short answer is “more.”
However, it is apparent that the job is about where it needs to get to.
It is simply not true that we create as many terrorists as we kill. Simple generational math will tell you that. Remember, most of the anger came during the bombings of several years ago. The teens who turned to terror, were probably going to do it anyway. Better to get rid of them all in a short period than over twenty years as they get better at blowing up American buildings. The kids today, will hopefully grow up middle class and see that they are better off without their radicals as we are without ours.
At this point, and I say this basically paraphrasing a dozen or more military friends of mine, the Iraqis want and feel about able to take over, with some support. So, I don’t disagree that we are near the end of the most successful military excercise this century, only that it is necessary to do things with some order and goal oriented motivation.
Murtha wants to undermine the campaign. Frankly, I agree with McCain, Murtha is not a big thinker. Remember, the military is a meritocracy, if Murtha was smart enough to lead, he’d have moved past Captain with all his time. That doesn’t take away from his cred as a foot soldier, but he’s no commander. Heck, they’ve known that for years in Congress and the military, why do you think he’s not on the military committees and is a budget guy?
February 18th, 2007 at 1:08 pmYou know what’s really fascinating… the few people who put themselves out there to change to get Islam to change, they all have to live under protection becaue their lives are at risk.
Comment by Vince P — February 18, 2007 @ 12:52 pm
Islam doesn’t have to change. There are a few nutcases within Islam who will take it to the extreme and kill people who won’t conform to their interpretation of Islam. Extremism within any religion is problematic for the world.
February 18th, 2007 at 1:09 pmThe fact you can’t figure out the reason tells me that if i were to spell it out for you, you would still be too stupid to understand. so please, stay stupid.
Comment by Vince P — February 18, 2007 @ 12:59 pm
aww… go ahead vinnie… humor me… this time…
February 18th, 2007 at 1:09 pmgo ahead and spell it out, for me and everyone here…
Of course I realize it. That’s why I use the silly term Jihadist. I get sick of typing “Of course not every Muslim is violent only 51267524 are”
February 18th, 2007 at 1:10 pmAh! The FOX Shar Pei pet dog barks. Brit Hume is such as ass. He hasn’t the foggiest idea of what’s really going on in Iraq. Maybe if he got off his dead ass and spent some time in Iraq talking to the boots on the ground instead of setting in his FOX Noise Channel office he might learn something.
I’m not saying Murtha is 100% right on everything but he does talk to the troops and he hears a lot more of the truth than Hume will every hear.
February 18th, 2007 at 1:10 pmGerald: Hey… we’re over here.. in the 21st Century…come back.
Comment by Vince P
Hey Vince … toilet paper was invented only few decades ago…. humanity has along way to go still. We can either help it along or try to hold it back in the darkages… luckily it isnt your choice.
February 18th, 2007 at 1:11 pmOh look, it’s the Vinnie P Show.
Pffftt…
Comment by Zooey — February 18, 2007 @ 1:00 pm
yea… shoot… i bit too… but i don’t make a habit of it!
February 18th, 2007 at 1:12 pmlast time…
I dont know if you peolpe realized but i really dont care about politicians or politics or party (other than one party is traitorous and the other pathetic)
Comment by Vince P — February 18, 2007 @ 1:02 pm
You believe the republicans are traitorous? I never would have expected that from you.
February 18th, 2007 at 1:13 pmMurtha is about as militarily competent as that fool former NSA guy Odom. Those are the people who didn’t see Bin Ladin coming.
February 18th, 2007 at 1:13 pmYou can thank his incompetence (and likely the education i was receiving at the same time) for my evolution from a moderate to a liberal.
Comment by AshenShard — February 18, 2007 @ 1:05 pm
Hey – me too.
I’d say the only contribution George W Bush gave during his Residency was to convert many people to the other team by reminding us what the Founding Fathers expected us to do – be skeptical of our government.
One of my co-workers said that she read the Constitution for the first time on her own and realized how much the Founding Fathers wanted us to question everything. Now if she could just convince our pro-Bush Government teacher to do that same… :)
February 18th, 2007 at 1:14 pmunbelievable
Swordfish baby, Swordfish, see the movie
it’s the strategy, and it’s right
maybe Iran will think about that and negotiate something that allows somebody else to make their reactor fuel, then again, maybe we’ll bomb them, we’ll see
anyway, there aren’t enough virgins to support many more marters, in fact, I think some of those “virgins” might be lying already
February 18th, 2007 at 1:14 pmBrit Hume thinks he is still relevant and people are going to make a decision based on his opinion. It is funny that these people dont realise american people have woken up. brit’s loud noise is nothing better than fart sound.
February 18th, 2007 at 1:14 pmWell according to Sen Levin, the Democrats are still going to attempt to violate the Constitution and take CinC authority for themselves.
Gotta love you guys… you are relentless. You’re just like the Muslims , no wonder you dont want people to know the truth.
February 18th, 2007 at 1:15 pmGerald: Hey… we’re over here.. in the 21st Century…come back.
Comment by Vince P — February 18, 2007 @ 1:05 pm
If there were a way to bet on the outcomes of these discussions, I would bet the farm on Gerald. Why? because he’d make me rich (which I would then donate to non-religious liberal charities), because he is decimating you.
February 18th, 2007 at 1:16 pmBrit Hume is correct. Thank you, sir, for speaking truth to – in this case, moronic – power. God Bless You, Brit!
February 18th, 2007 at 1:17 pmAshen,
the moderates want you back, Bush is a little to the right if you haven’t noticed.
BTW, are you really in Iran?
February 18th, 2007 at 1:18 pmThis is another great video to watch. It’s about the Method of Mohemmed.. or the Islamic way of war.
http://www.heritage.org/Press/Events/EV081204A.cfm
It explains how all the various groups are in thier own way all working toward the same strategic goals. Watch and learn.
Speaker(s): Mary R. Habeck, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of History,
Yale University
Host(s): James A. Phillips
Research Fellow, Kathryn and Shelby Cullom Davis Institute for International Studies, The Heritage Foundation
Details:
Location: The Heritage Foundation’s Lehrman Auditorium
To many observers the jihadis seem to have no strategy at all. Attacks around the world appear random or even counter-productive, and there is, apparently, no over-arching strategic vision driving their project. Dr. Habeck argues quite the reverse – there are coherent strategies behind the seeming randomness of the jihadist war on the West, strategies that only make sense within the ideologies of the various extremist groups.
Dr. Habeck has written Storm of Steel: The Development of Armor Doctrine in Germany and the Soviet Union, 1919-1939 (Cornell, 2003); co-edited Spain Betrayed: The Soviet Union in the Spanish Civil War (Yale, 2001) with Ronald Radosh and Grigory Sevostinianov; edited The Great War and the Twentieth Century (2000), with Jay Winter and Geoffrey Parker; and published essays in several collections. Currently, she is writing two books on jihadist ideology.
February 18th, 2007 at 1:18 pmunknowable of course you would think that. thanks for airing your “thoughts”
February 18th, 2007 at 1:19 pmIt is simply not true that we create as many terrorists as we kill.
Comment by Beav
Do you have any clue what terrorism is? Dont you understand it was around 1000 years ago? 2000 years ago? 3000 years ago?
Terrorism is a TACTIC used by an overpowered people. The people of the middle east have no power but oil. So they turn to terrorism. They turn to terrorism because every invader over the past 2000 years has RAPED them over and over…
http://www.islamicsupremecouncil.com/holocausts.htm
They have no experience to fall back on except the thought to stand up and FIGHT! or else be raped.
THAT is the mentality that must change. Your stupid war is not going to change anything. The war thing has been tried over and over and over… the muslims are still here and angier than ever. And for good reason. The youth in Iraq today grow up middle class? Take the needle out of your arm and let your mind clear. WE FUCKING KILLED THEIR PARENTS, BROTHERS, SISTERS, ETC.
Study history a little. This war is part of the CYCLE of BS that humanity has been enduring. Stop the cycle or you are just a part of it.
February 18th, 2007 at 1:20 pmSwordfish baby, Swordfish, see the movie
I have. Don’t tell me you think John Travola is amything more than an actor…
it’s the strategy, and it’s right
Says you.
maybe Iran will think about that and negotiate something that allows somebody else to make their reactor fuel, then again, maybe we’ll bomb them, we’ll see
If you blood thirsty folks get your way, Bush will ignore Congress and bomb them.
You do know that iran only wants to defend itself against you blood-thirsty folks, right?
anyway, there aren’t enough virgins to support many more marters, in fact, I think some of those “virgins†might be lying already
Comment by Beav — February 18, 2007 @ 1:14 pm
I’m an Atheist, a Feminst and a realist. 72 virgins in heaven? I call that gullable, one-dimensional and, frankly – stupid.
February 18th, 2007 at 1:23 pmMurtha is about as militarily competent as that fool former NSA guy Odom. Those are the people who didn’t see Bin Ladin coming.
Comment by Vince P
Oh really? I thought a report was handed directly to bush that said what Osama was up to and he ignored it? Well just another inconvenient truth…
February 18th, 2007 at 1:24 pmLook, just because Murtha isn’t the brightest bulb in the string is no reason to question his judgment.
February 18th, 2007 at 1:25 pmOne of my co-workers said that she read the Constitution for the first time on her own and realized how much the Founding Fathers wanted us to question everything. Now if she could just convince our pro-Bush Government teacher to do that same… :)
Comment by unbelievable
Abraham Lincoln demanded that president Polk (I believe) show him exactly where American blood was spilt by mexicans… (Lincoln thought Polk was a liar and was lieing America into a war with its neighbor.
February 18th, 2007 at 1:26 pmunknowable of course you would think that. thanks for airing your “thoughtsâ€
Comment by Vince P — February 18, 2007 @ 1:19 pm
TRANSLATION: Vince has nothing but really bad childish insults.
LOL. Pathetic Vince.
I see you have ZERO response to my inquiry about your IQ. No surprise. It probably isn’t even triple digits is it?
February 18th, 2007 at 1:27 pmI thought a report was handed directly to bush that said what Osama was up to and he ignored it?
Comment by Gerald Gibson Jr — February 18, 2007 @ 1:24 pm
Yeah, I have to defend Bush on this one. They obscurely called that report: “Osama determined to attack within US”…
:D
February 18th, 2007 at 1:30 pmCongressman Murtha knows and speaks the truth. It is pretty well established that he has the confidence of the military and its brass. The FOGS NEWS channel is in panic mode. Of late they have detected a leak in the reservoir of public information. Their current solution is to try and stuff Brit Hume in the dike to plug up the hole and stop the truth from spilling out. No big deal…the truth will always out…Brit Hume or no Brit Hume.
February 18th, 2007 at 1:32 pmJust go watch Fahrenheit 911… that show explains very well why we dont blame the Saudis for 911.
Comment by Gerald Gibson Jr — February 18, 2007 @ 1:04 pm
very good, gerald! you get your gold stars!
and those are just the “common sense”-ical reasons… so much more…
and i watched F911 for the first time last month… i’d seen clips and already new the story, but MY DAUGHTER SUGGESTED that we watch it… nearly floored me! … thought it was great – and SHE did too…
February 18th, 2007 at 1:33 pm…
Abraham Lincoln demanded that president Polk (I believe) show him exactly where American blood was spilt by mexicans… (Lincoln thought Polk was a liar and was lieing America into a war with its neighbor.
Comment by Gerald Gibson Jr — February 18, 2007 @ 1:26 pm
Only those who cannot prove their arguments get angry (Vince has been validating this since he first started posting here).
The rest of us just put up the proof.
February 18th, 2007 at 1:33 pmWell according to Sen Levin, the Democrats are still going to attempt to violate the Constitution and take CinC authority for themselves.
Comment by Vince P — February 18, 2007 @ 1:15 pm
Violations of Constitution have been common for about six years now.
February 18th, 2007 at 1:34 pmBush lives in a bubble of fantasy, but Hume calls Murtha a lunatic? LOL.
February 18th, 2007 at 1:40 pm“Violations of Constitution have been common for about six years now.”
If only you could prove that, but you can’t. But you also seem to suggest that the democrats usurping executive authority is ok with you. As long as dems do it, it’s ok … is that really what you’re saying?
February 18th, 2007 at 1:43 pmMy point is that for someone who seems to be so worried about the threat posed by Islam, you don’t seem to be doing much to actually combat that threat do you? I mean, sure send in the Army, which only weakens you, but the second someone says something which would actually help solve the problem, no way.
February 18th, 2007 at 1:43 pmdarwin: Not only that, I missed all the hand wringing when Bill Clinton launched a war against Serbia with no Congressional authority or UN resolution.
February 18th, 2007 at 1:49 pmComment by darwin
Bush admited to it on TV and said he would continue. His violations of seperation of church and state are well documented. His violations of the Geneva conventions are also well documented and the U.S. Constitution clearly states that violations of foreign treaties is a violation of U.S. law… the Constitution in particular. Habeas Corpus .. remember that we humans “are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights” … do you know what unalienable means? It means you can pass all the laws you want, and the executive orders you want, and all the signing statements you want and they are all INVALID. Unalienable means that no HUMAN can take them away from others. No matter what.
February 18th, 2007 at 1:49 pmVince, Have another donut as you sit behind your keyboard in your apartment thinking you are fighting Islamic Jihad like your close friend Hugh Hewitt (who thinks he is a war hero for broadcasting from the Empire State Building, which “could be a terrorist target”)
Your answer to everything is send more kids to fight in a country that had zero to do with 9/11 and zero to do with terror post 1991, and also to tear up the constitution to fight the boogyman you see everywhere. ( And for good measure, you’d like a tax cut for your bravery.)
You fear driven undereducated clowns fail to notice that we fought Facism, which, in Germany, included the strongest Army and air force on the planet at the time, and communism, which, in the USSR was backed by endless megatons of nukes, without destroying everything which America stood for (Internment and Joe McCarthy being the major exceptions, and pale next to bush) — Now, faced with third world terrorists, you want to turn us into a nightmare combo of Rome (perpetual war) and 1949 Russia (paranoid and run by one man with a swift death to all dissenters.)
Yes Vince, you, Brit Hume, Hugh Hewitt and your brave compatriots are indeed great Americans.
February 18th, 2007 at 1:49 pmBruce: my personal actions are none of your business and neither validate nor invalidate my statements.
After all I dont see you killing yourself.
February 18th, 2007 at 1:50 pmHume wanted Tony Snow’s job in the White House, but he is too ugly for Bush to have sex with, so Tony got that job. Just telling facts as I see them folks.
February 18th, 2007 at 1:51 pmuh oh, get ready for another episode of the Cartoon Riots
RIYADH (Reuters) – Saudi Arabia wants an apology from a Dutch politician who said Muslims should “tear out half the Koran†if they wanted to live in his country and has asked the Dutch government to intervene, a Saudi newspaper said on Sunday.
The Dutch government, which said it did not agree with the remarks made by populist anti-immigration politician Geert Wilders, confirmed that foreign ministry officials held informal talks last week with the Saudi embassy in The Hague.
“It (the embassy) appealed to the appropriate authorities on the need for Wilders’ insulting statements to be withdrawn and an apology given to Muslims,†the Saudi newspaper al-Watan reported.
“The embassy has demanded that the Dutch side put an end to such statements and actions.â€
February 18th, 2007 at 1:52 pmAfter all I dont see you killing yourself.
Comment by Vince P — February 18, 2007 @ 1:50 pm
He doesn’t support the war. You do. Suit up and go place your ass where your mouth is. Or aren’t you even smart enough to be accepted into the US Army? Ouch… They even lowered the standards a few times too…
February 18th, 2007 at 1:56 pmBen: our military people are MEN and WOMEN not kids. Your disrepect for them is shameful. They’re not your b*tches to claim victimhood for your political goals.
February 18th, 2007 at 1:56 pmMurtha went on Fox?
Maybe he is senile.
PS – I’m a combat vet … on Murtha’s side.
February 18th, 2007 at 1:58 pmwhen Bill Clinton launched a war against Serbia with no Congressional authority or UN resolution.
Vince, kool aid=BAD.
Not every military operation is WAR, dope, just like as in Iraq, which you don’t seem to COMP-RE-HEND.
Shocking?
February 18th, 2007 at 1:58 pmdarwin
Bush’s whole spying program violates the constitution.
Ditto the US India nuclear arms deal (The constitution protects foreign treaties, including the NPT.)
Ditto Gitmo, ditto the Levin-Graham amendment (Which basically means that government can take you, call you an alien combatant, torture you into confessing, and then sentence you to death all in secret, without granting you the right to appeal or see the evidence against you.)
A whole lot of depriving people of the right to vote – and trying to intimidate them into not voting in 2006.
In fact about all Bush hasn’t done is quarter troops in an American citizen’s home without permission.
You repugs weren’t screaming your lungs out when Bush was doing any of this, this means you let the precedent get set, so get set for some good old fashioned consequences to your own dumbass ignorance.
We don’t want a Democrat to have that kind of power, but the fact is that it took a revolutionary war to get that power out of the hands of government in the first place – and you guys just let it all go. Taking that power away again is not going to be easy.
February 18th, 2007 at 1:58 pmComment by Vince P
Because of your support for religious nuts I am not sure what you are saying in your last post… are you saying the Saudis have a point about people speaking their minds about religious books being bad…. or are you just saying it is ok when it is the koran and not the bible so the Saudis need to just shutup?
February 18th, 2007 at 1:59 pmBrit Hume used to have at least a sgred of credibility til he went over to Fox. Now it is full out and blatant lying by him.
Brit. Your days, as well as this Administrations, days are numbered.
February 18th, 2007 at 1:59 pmBen: our military people are MEN and WOMEN not kids. Your disrepect for them is shameful. They’re not your b*tches to claim victimhood for your political goals.
Comment by Vince P
But throwing them into a meat grinder just so you dont have to injure your ego by admiting you are dead wrong is ok….
February 18th, 2007 at 2:00 pmSaudi Arabia is one of the most conservative countries in the world. The Netherlands could be the most liberal.
If they can find compromise, no one else has any excuses.
By the way Vince, do you have a single thought of your own, or are you only bright enough to know how to cut and paste all your comments that aren’t juvenile insults?
You read something on a rightwing source and call it the truth without asking for a shred of evidence… And then you wonder why you have no credibility here.
February 18th, 2007 at 2:01 pmor are you just saying it is ok when it is the koran and not the bible so the Saudis need to just shutup?
Comment by Gerald Gibson Jr — February 18, 2007 @ 1:59 pm
I think he’s just saying that he knows how to cut and paste… I don’t think the thoughts get any deeper than that.
But since you’ve given him viable options, I think he’ll just call you names now…
February 18th, 2007 at 2:04 pmComment by Bruce Gorton
Not to mention the next person holding that power just might end up being Hillary Clinton… remember she believes that a far reaching rightwing conspiracy has been waged against her and her husband….
The right might be begging for the patriot act to be repealed soon…
February 18th, 2007 at 2:04 pmTo #31:
I’m a die-hard liberal, ex-American now living in Canada, where the government wasn’t stupid enough to enter an immoral war. I’m so happy to be living here, where people are more like-minded.
That said, I cringe down to my core whenever Michael Moore is quoted. Moore voted for friggin’ NADER in the 2000 election and has no right to say dick-all about anything, as far as I’m concerned. He pimped himself as an independent, and then when it became ‘cool’ to be anti-Bush and scream about a stolen election, he suddenly pimped himself as the voice of the liberal left. To hell with him.
There are a lot of credible voices on the left (Murtha included) who have plenty of logical, credible things to say about the surge. If we start quoting the likes of Michael Moore and using him as an example of what the left has to offer, we’re all in deep trouble. The neocons will tune us out as soon as they hear Moore’s name, just as I tune out any neocon the second he uses the words “Coulter,” “O’Reilly” or “Malkin.”
I’m not picking on you. It’s just that whenever I see Moore’s name, I cringe. He was going to win the Democrats the last election with his stupid Fahrenheit 911 movie. Damn, if you’re going to make a movie about Iraq, TELL THE TRUTH which is damning enough. He didn’t need to make a lot of shit up and discredit the LEGITIMATE reasons we have for hating this stupid war. He’s an ass.
Murtha is RIGHT in what he’s saying and doing right now. He’s being rational and logical. If Moore starts to meddle in it, we’re fucked. Everything Moore touches turns to shit. Let Murtha handle this. The neocons just look stupid when they attack him. If Moore sticks his stupid fat nose in this, Murtha looks like a lying idiot by comparison and I would HATE that.
I know this is an unpopular opinion among the left, but fuck Michael Moore! Let Murtha handle this one alone!
February 18th, 2007 at 2:05 pmunsmartable: Reuters is a right wing news agency. Riiiight.
February 18th, 2007 at 2:05 pmVince P
I don’t see the threat as real. You see, I can handle the idea of people not liking me, because frankly I am better then them, much as I am a far superior person to you (which in and of itself, is not much of an achievement.)
Now so far as I can see, these Muslim chaps aren’t much of a threat if they don’t have any money. You seem to be telling us all how little they like us, well if we can strip them of all funding, who cares? They won’t be able to do anything about it.
February 18th, 2007 at 2:06 pmI think he’s just saying that he knows how to cut and paste… I don’t think the thoughts get any deeper than that.
But since you’ve given him viable options, I think he’ll just call you names now…
Comment by unbelievable
wow that was funny… he is still your little bitch.
February 18th, 2007 at 2:07 pmunsmartable: Reuters is a right wing news agency. Riiiight.
Comment by Vince P — February 18, 2007 @ 2:05 pm
Question: Do you have any thoughts of your own?
Vince’s response: Not a one…
February 18th, 2007 at 2:10 pmVince,
An 18 year old kid, with the option of Wal-Mart or the Army, is a kid.
Granted there are professional men and women in the services, especially the seasoned Sgts, but either way, they should not be sent into places like Iraq by trained seals like you who are fueled by a stew of fear, hate and misinformation. Afganistan was one thing, since there was a reason for us to send force there. Iraq is one of the most shameful, criminal moves in US history. The fact that your crude web site still posts a 1999 ABC news video highlighting claims about Iraq and Bin Laden that have long been discredited by the 9/11 Commission and many others, shows your desperate flight from the truth.
Perhaps it’s time to revisit the University of Maryland study showing that Fox News viewers are by far the most likely to believe proven falsehoods about Iraq.
Now go crawl back into your barcalounger you paranoid, cowardly fool. You need to be ready for Joel Surnows 1/2 Hour comedy hour on Faux News tonight.
February 18th, 2007 at 2:10 pmwell sycophants, i’m off. have fun rubbing your lilliputian clits.
February 18th, 2007 at 2:11 pmYou guys are amazing. Before 2003, you wouldn’t have touched Murtha with the proverbial “ten-foot pole”.
Try looking a little into John Murtha’s long Congressional history (and no, I’m NOT talking about Abscam).
It is all too common knowledge here in the Contracting Community in DC (yea, I know, we’re all a bunch of thieving profiteers but it’s hard work) that Big John’s major complaint is that Bush is burning up all the money on gasoline and bullets and keeping him and the Congress Critters from the big buck Defense programs that allow them to grease their freinds, families, and “Non-Profit Foundations (yup, John’s got one built by Northrop-Grumman)
Christ-it doesn’t take much to be a liberal Saint. Amazing.
February 18th, 2007 at 2:11 pmwow that was funny… he is still your little bitch.
Comment by Gerald Gibson Jr — February 18, 2007 @ 2:07 pm
I think he’d rather be yours ; )
As much fun as this is… I should get going for now.
Later!
February 18th, 2007 at 2:12 pmThe transcription leaves out Hume’s complete final comment which can clearly be heard:
“HUME: A lot of it will be — dotty.”
This man is Fox News’ #1 political reporter.
February 18th, 2007 at 2:15 pmliberals lets just think for a moment if Murtha were a republican and supported the surge would you not be calling him senile and naive?
February 18th, 2007 at 2:15 pmThey’re not your b*tches to claim victimhood for your political goals.
Comment by Vince P — February 18, 2007 @ 1:56 pm
Psychiatrists say this sort of attitude is how serial killers, and molesters validate their inappropriate behavior. By saying it’s wrong to have compassion for victims, and that it’s just supporting victimhood.
Thanks Vince, for proving to everyone that you’re mentally insane. You are to Judaism, what David Duke is to Christianity.
February 18th, 2007 at 2:18 pmOf course it’s not logical. And yes, that would normally mean we’ll be there forever in large numbers. However, the Republicans feel that, (like the cold war russians) they can decide when victory is achieved. And that can be at any moment, it has nothing to do with what’s going on the ground. They simply declare victory when they’re ready.
Bush expected to declare victory at some point, even if the country was still a mess. In fact, that was what the “mission accomplished” was. It was almost near victory. All he needed was to kill some high profile insurgents, put up a puppet government, and declare “victory” after the war eventually fell off the radar. Even if killings were going on daily, he didn’t care. He wasn’t there to “nation build” as he said. He was there to meet certain financial and conservative goals and get out.
Unfortunately the war never did fall off the front pages. It turned into chaos. The Iraqis didn’t like occupation, and the sunnis weren’t about to let the american-backed shiites gain all the power (not when Saudi money and the whole sunni world was watching). Iraq refused to quietly downsize from a Saddam era modern state to a small, poor, backward religious state which would share it’s oil revenues and be incapable of causing us any further bother.
And that must have made sense to Rummy because that nation was pretty much broken before we invaded. I’m sure they all thought it would be a rag tag state when we left, beholden to american money, and would lay down and do what it was told.
Of course anyone with any sense knew it wasn’t that simple and that it would never happen. We all knew, even those of us with no political or foreign affairs background, that Iraq was a piece of land with distinct rival groups and a history of never really being a nation. We knew Saddam was the only thing holding it together. But Bush was ready for us, too. Until the day came where he could sneak out of there,…in the meantime he Dixie-chicked anyone who pointed out what was really going on.
Rove had it all worked out, and since they owned the media, there was no way they couldn’t control the “reality.” Unfortunately, as it turned out, they really couldn’t. Because although they owned most of the media, they didn’t own the internet. They didn’t own Utube or the blogs. And there were lots of other things they couldn’t control, like the truth about corruption leaking out into the media, and a long list of fired and discredited former employees writing books and getting on television.
So the bad news just kept piling on, the war raged on, Abu Graib made our military look like a joke, and the white house was losing the PR war. He lost Leno. There were cracks in the plaster.
Then the unthinkable happened – democracy. Rove just didn’t count on it, I guess. The mid term elections. How on earth can they keep browbeating the Republican congress to keep lock step with the white house if they’re afraid of their own constituents? They took a bath. And that frozen iceburg of Republican unity cracked in half.
So what’s left? The 2008 elections. THIS one they’re looking slightly forward to. They’re hoping to get some gains back, and they’re still hoping the Iraq war won’t be on the front pages anymore. That’s not a bet I’d be willing to take, though.
The neocons were the only ones in the party not panicked and completely worried about the disaster that had befallen the party. “Just invade Iran” they said. Didn’t the americans forget all about Afghanistan once you invaded Iraq? Then invade Iran and they will forget about Iraq too. The only thing is, that’s insanity. And by now, the republicans have separated themselves from Bush and are scared to death of another war. What about Syria? Think we can beat them? Must be something to distract people off of Iraq.
The only hope for Bush is that there is some improvement in the Iraq situation and americans get obsessed with a domestic boogyman like immigration. If I was Bush, I’d start pulling the troops out now. Really. Because that would be politically expedient. No matter how many Iraqis are killing each other, it won’t matter to voters unless there are american causualties too. If the casualty count drops dramatically, the media will drop the story. Iraq will be a mess which is no longer our business.
So why doesn’t he do that if it’s in his political best interest? I don’t know. Maybe for a few reasons. Israeli. Oil. Lucrative military contracts. Saudi Arabia. Those are the big name reasons. But I have a feeling there’s a lot more underneath greasing the wheels and extending the war. Greed. There is a LOT of money being made with Iraq. And like Randi Rhodes said on the radio, there is a gravy train set up that nobody wants messed with. The kind of money that would be hard for any of us to think about.
February 18th, 2007 at 2:18 pmAlso Vince,
Why are there almost no Neo-Con combat vets?
Why do assclown cowards like you, Bush, Cheney, Libby, Kristol, Wolfewitz, Pearle, Feith, Hewitt, Hume, Hannity, Gibson, Limbaugh, Jonah Goldberg, etc.. who would no sooner be within 3 times zones of combat than fly to the moon, love to see other people fight in a war based on proven lies so that your paranoia can be served and you won’t have to admit that you were dead wrong.
You are the worst of the worst.
February 18th, 2007 at 2:19 pmFishbrake,
Actually, it’s worse. Brit Hume is the Managing Editor of Faux News.
February 18th, 2007 at 2:20 pmChrist-it doesn’t take much to be a liberal Saint. Amazing.
Comment by Harry B
I agree…
Politics Makes Strange Bedfellows
Like my vote for Kerry… he was not who I wanted but… then there is the current president cheney to think about.
February 18th, 2007 at 2:20 pmwell sycophants, i’m off. have fun rubbing your lilliputian clits.
Comment by Vince P — February 18, 2007 @ 2:11 pm
For someone that says they’re a Gay Man, your hatred of women is confusing – as is pretty much everything you post. Sorry skippy, but you sound like a seriously disturbed person that needs to be wrapped in a straitjacket.
February 18th, 2007 at 2:21 pmThis story about the Empire State shooting by a Palestinian in 1997 is just coming out today.
I wonder how many Americans have to be killed at home before the Regressives’ god of political correctness is appeased.
By all means lets keep the killing and carnage to save ourselves in someone else’s backyard. Why disrupt our cute little lives by personally defending our freedoms. Lets send the strongest and youngest of us to die in a distant country to die.
February 18th, 2007 at 2:21 pmI just still cannot get over the fact that Peter Jennings, at the time Managing Editor of ABC news, was raked over the coals by the right wing by raising an eyebrow when Florida was called for Bush in 2000. That was a firing offense, but in the other direction, the Fox News Managing Editor can be a fire breathing GOP hit machine, and that doesn’t fire up demands for his ouster?
Making things worse, the network President, Roger Ailes, was a GOP media czar for years. And of course Murdoch who last week admitted that he tries to manipulate public opinion in America and Britain. Talk about Ted Turner owning CNN all you want, but there was never a partisan dictating the day to day content on CNN or any of the big three networks. Amazing.
February 18th, 2007 at 2:23 pmDon’t care how old he is, he could still beat Brit Hume into an ICU any day of the week, and I wish that day was today. Somebody needs to take a blunt object to Hume, and render him mute.
February 18th, 2007 at 2:26 pmso Murtha doesn’t come across like a rambling old drunk at the end of the bar?
I think his “rapid response force” based in Okinawa was my favorite.
February 18th, 2007 at 2:28 pmWe might, but we would then follow up with a counter argument utilising facts and figures on just how much this is going to cost, how little America can afford it, and how little a difference 20,000 troops are really going to make in a situation where you need an extra 200,000.
We would try to prove our case, we wouldn’t just state something and then hope everyone swallows it because its on TV.
February 18th, 2007 at 2:28 pm“Why are there almost no Neo-Con combat vets?”
http://stage.whoserved.com/index.asp
February 18th, 2007 at 2:30 pmI’ve read through the comments here and as with other blogs sites, namely Democraticunderground, I’m terribly dismayed at what I’m reading. I just have one question for each of you, the same one I’d ask every member of Congress. Please answer honestly: Do you want the United States to win in Iraq, in Afghanistan and in other areas against terrorists?
We, your American soldiers, sailors airmen and marines, want to win. We want to be impowered with your support, not your scorn. We want to know we are not being undermined here at home by those cannot see the long term error of not continuing efforts to win. For you I offer Winston Churchill’s words: “If you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a small chance of survival. There may even be a worse case: you may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.” -
February 18th, 2007 at 2:36 pmIs it me or does Brit look like he hasn’t slept since the midterm elections? Why does anyone listen to the same people who’ve been wrong continuiously for the past 5 years as they call 70% of the country stupid?
February 18th, 2007 at 2:39 pmwhat is “win”, darren?…
no… never mind… i really don’t wanna hear any more bullshit…
February 18th, 2007 at 2:41 pmDear Corey, EasyRider, & Old Fart.
Hume is offensive.
So are you.
More than half a century ago in a build up the final solution Hitler opened the T4 eugenics program to rid the world of those undesirable people with developmental disabilities. Untold numbers were exterminated. Yet we still have not come far enough to not associate these PEOPLE with a way to ridicule somebody and imply that they are sub human.
John
February 18th, 2007 at 2:42 pmTHERE IS NOTHING TO “WIN” IN IRAQ OR AFGHANISTAN OR IRAQ
IT IS NOT A GODDAMNED BASKETBALL GAME
GET SOME GODDAMNED EDUCATION, MOUTHBREATHER RIGHTIES!!!
February 18th, 2007 at 2:43 pm264: I’d be more inclined to believe you were for real if you hadn’t trotted out that stupid “Do you want the United States to win” strawman.
February 18th, 2007 at 2:43 pmComment by Vince P — February 18, 2007 @ 1:15 pm
This, coming from a flagrant liar.
February 18th, 2007 at 2:47 pmWhy anyone watches Faux News is beyond me.
February 18th, 2007 at 2:49 pmJohn:
One of the other problems with putting those labels on Hume is that it makes dismissing him that much easier. Look at how many of us dismissed Bush in 2000, and 2004. It’s easy to insult his intelligence, but when you do you run the risk of denying the genuine danger he poses to us and to our country; we’ve been paying the price of that for 6 years.
Time to stop paying…
February 18th, 2007 at 2:51 pmDarren, you claim to be a soldier, but your propaganda is almost word for word identical to the crap that KKKarl Rove puts out. You can understand why it’s hard to believe you – can’t you son?
Tell me, what unit are you in, and where are you stationed? Or should we just cut the pretense now, that you’re anything but another NeoCon Chickenhawk Coward like Vince P?
February 18th, 2007 at 2:51 pmHume said he was senile huh? So you recognize Murthas senility too huh?
Now you get your panties in a bunch over Hume speaking truth to moron over this?
Wake UP?
What did Murtha say about Marines before any investigation was complete?
February 18th, 2007 at 2:52 pmThis, coming from a flagrant liar.
Comment by Briseadh na Faire — February 18, 2007 @ 2:47 pm
Yeah, a flagrant liar, that believes Dave HorseShitowitz is anything but the pathological hater he is, and that believes a ‘Forensic’ Psychiatrist’s new book smearing liberals is anything more than either a cynical way to make money of sick conservatives, or an exercise of the senile old fool that wrote it.
To call Vince both Gullible and foolish would be kind descriptions. To call him a liar, a merchant of hate and ignorance is just obvious.
February 18th, 2007 at 2:54 pmComment by BEN — February 18, 2007 @ 2:10 pm
Even the invasion of Afghanistan was unjustified. The Taliban offered to extradite Bin Laden upon a sufficient showing of proof he was involved in 9/11.
Instead of offering proof, Bush dropped bombs.
February 18th, 2007 at 2:56 pmComment by Darren — February 18, 2007 @ 2:36 pm
Define “win” and I will answer.
February 18th, 2007 at 2:58 pm274: You must be new at this, since you can’t even insult us effectively – are you asking us to wake ourselves up, ordering us to, or are you referring to Union Pacific?
February 18th, 2007 at 2:58 pmComment by Darren
There is no such thing as “winning”. This isnt a game. Either the goals have been accomplished and the war is OVER or not. You idiots have had more time than WWII to get this damn war OVER and you have failed. It is time for you to take a back seat and let people that operate off of logic and reason to take control before you destroy our own damn country. Since the goals are either all lies or are being kept secret from us then there is nothing to achieve. That leaves only how we end this mass hysteria.
February 18th, 2007 at 2:58 pmThe White House said it was “baffling that he is endorsing the policy positions of Michael Moore and the extreme liberal wing.â€
Gee, what about the Christofascist right-wing, Hume? Great uncle Goebbels must be proud…
February 18th, 2007 at 2:59 pmBriseadh na Faire
How about this rather, Afghanistan at least would have led to attaining some desireable goal had it been fought properly, rather then fought properly for one half of the war and then ignored for the next so as to turn it into the world’s largest supplier of Heroine?
February 18th, 2007 at 3:00 pmWhat did Murtha say about Marines before any investigation was complete?
Comment by notaravinglefty
Exactly what the commanders he talked to said. Also there needs to be no investigation to know that a bunch of women and children were murdered. We have the words of the mother of one of the soldiers who she said had told her that he watched as the brain of one of the children fell on his boot.
February 18th, 2007 at 3:02 pmEven the invasion of Afghanistan was unjustified. The Taliban offered to extradite Bin Laden upon a sufficient showing of proof he was involved in 9/11.
Instead of offering proof, Bush dropped bombs.
Comment by Briseadh na Faire
We didnt really need proof. We had already tried to kill Osama in Afghanistan before 911 and after 911 it was a no brainer to do whatever it took to get him before he escaped back to Saudi Arabia or Pakistan… but that didnt work out now did it… yet another Republican post911 failure.
February 18th, 2007 at 3:04 pmAnd Hume’s Heinous. So WTFx?
February 18th, 2007 at 3:06 pmBrit you want to see someone senile try this McConnell and McCain dudes.
Now there is a pair living in the past and unable to grasp the meaning of true life.
I agree tho, it is beyond me why any democrat would go on faux, all it does is keep their ratings up.
If the democrats would boycott them and they had to use the lying repugs only they would fall thru the floor and murdock would shut it down.
Then all these Hume types would be on the streets with cans and wiping windshields instead of wiping dubyas ass.
Oh what a dream.
February 18th, 2007 at 3:06 pmWhat a worthless response. I never felt the need to insult you since you are insulting enough on your own.
Did Moonbathra insult all Marines? Yes. He no longer has any honor. He lost it long ago when trying to increase the bribe he wanted.
He only does what he does because after all these years, someone is finally paying attention to his doddering old ass.
Peloosi likes it because he makes the raving comments, appeasing leftist idiots such as yourself who cannot think for yourself, and she gets to avoid any blowback from them.
February 18th, 2007 at 3:08 pmSo, according to nutballs such as yourself, it is more important that lawyers be supplied to terrorists caught on the battlefield and stuck in Gitmo than it is for a Marine to have an honest investigation and military trial?
February 18th, 2007 at 3:12 pmHere is a little e-mail I sent in to that mental midget Brit Hume and his dopey neocon, right wingers at the FAUX Network. They should be employees of the GOP not a television network! Shame!!
I watch you week after week and can say you are the most “pompous asses” I have ever encountered. You are a “right wing nut!” Go fight in IRAQ yourself and take your family with you into this ill conceived CIVIL WAR! Support the liars and continued lies of this corrupt administration, you dope! At this stage in his lying administration about 30% of the population are “NITWITS” who blindly follow Bush and the ass hole GOPer’s in Congress and congrats, you are one of them.
February 18th, 2007 at 3:13 pmJuan had it correct today when he said (tongue in cheek) that not many are as smart as you. You are a condescending ass hole and will never be half the man John Murtha is!
Do you, Billy Boy Kristol (the top neo con), Hannity,O’Rielly,Gibson,Cavuto and Roger Ailes sit around and je– off while plotting your asinine support of this GOP agenda?
Comment by Bruce Gorton — February 18, 2007 @ 3:00 pm
It was fought to attain some desirable goal. The oil pipeline.
http://www.ringnebula.com/Oil/Timeline.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2017044.stm
http://www.worldpress.org/specials/pp/pipeline_timeline.htm
February 18th, 2007 at 3:13 pmComment by notaravinglefty
Since you are such an independant thinker please do tell us where Osama is and why we dont go get him?
And define EXACTLY how we know when Iraq is over … or as you small thinkers like to call “win”. And dont say it will look like a little America cause you will embarrass yourself far more than you have already done.
February 18th, 2007 at 3:14 pmDoes anybody really expect anything better from F#cked-News?
February 18th, 2007 at 3:15 pmSo, according to nutballs such as yourself, it is more important that lawyers be supplied to terrorists caught on the battlefield and stuck in Gitmo than it is for a Marine to have an honest investigation and military trial?
Comment by notaravinglefty
It is not a matter of what is more important … it is a matter of one being a TRIAL and the other was not a trial but a sunday talk show. You do know he difference correct? The people on the inside the Murtha knows and you do not told him what they knew happened. This was admited to by the soldiers themselves in court so far so the people that told Murtha what happened was correct… looks like Murtha has people in the military that trust him more than the rightwingers…. I wonder why… all that treasonous protection of the Saudis and sending Americans to die for a lie maybe?
February 18th, 2007 at 3:17 pmSo, according to nutballs such as yourself, it is more important that lawyers be supplied to terrorists caught on the battlefield and stuck in Gitmo than it is for a Marine to have an honest investigation and military trial? Comment by notaravinglefty — February 18, 2007 @ 3:12 pm
Because you believe these are separate issues, is why you’re a nutball. Everyone deserves a trial, especially people that were caught in a hut, because that was the ‘battlefield’.
Your side constructs strawmen, because you have no argument, and because you’re anti-american. Trials and rights are the foundation of our society. You sound more like a radical religious terrorist than an american.
February 18th, 2007 at 3:19 pmNo where in the clipor transcript does Hume say that Murtha is “senile†or even use the word “senile.â€
Comment by Exley — February 18, 2007 @ 11:31 am
So please explain to us what Hume meant when he said that Murtha is “long past the day when he had anything but the foggiest awareness of what the heck is going on in the world.â€
“Long past the day” -could Hume, perhaps, be referring to Murtha’s age?
What else could “long past the day” possibly mean?
Hume didn’t need to use the word “senile” to imply that Murtha is old. And I don’t know where in the world you go t the impression that the word senile is “antiquated”.
February 18th, 2007 at 3:24 pmGerry, Gerry, Gerry,…..
Likely between Afghanistant and Pakistan in the mountainous border area…..but what do I care? He is ineffective where he is…if he isn’t already dead.
Been awhile since we heard from him isn’t it?
They have been reduced to using their third stringers for suicide bombers, even Mookie and his band of thugs are running scared back to Iran.
Your buddy Osama seems to have things well in hand huh?
Raving Moonbats like yourself are the ones who keep asking where Osama is….as if you care. Perhaps you should ask his supporters in the defeatcrat party?
The definition you seek has already been provided over and over again. Why would I think you would comprehend it this time if I said it again?
Embarrass myself? No, just speaking Truth to Moonbats!!
February 18th, 2007 at 3:25 pmSo at least you admit that a trial was on-going.
Now slow down a bit and read this a couple times, it might help.
Moonbathra made comments IN THE MIDDLE OF AN INVESTIGATION that was not complete yet.
So we know now he is so senile, he never knew he was harming their ability to get a fair trial.
Even those hacks you mention as Monnbathras buddies on the inside did not have the full truth of the matter, which was borne out when the investigation was completed, and more information became available.
Moonbathra has people in the military who trust him? No, just raving asshats such as yourself who care more about a political agenda who don’t care whether someone would get a fair trial.
February 18th, 2007 at 3:34 pmUh, isn’t this the whole point? Try to focus on the conversation rather than Uranus.
Trials and rights ARE the foundation of OUR society. Moonbathra just trampled all over the rights of those Marines didn’t he?
While at the same time moonbats are busy projecting those “trials and rights” to any society we encounter, including those who would never consider affording YOU those same rights.
The ignorance from you moonbats here is just shocking. How do you guys manage to feed yourselves?
February 18th, 2007 at 3:40 pmMoonbathra made comments IN THE MIDDLE OF AN INVESTIGATION that was not complete yet.
Comment by notaravinglefty
So what? It has happened everyday for about 200 years now… there are trials… there are people talking about it…
What is your point?
February 18th, 2007 at 3:47 pmLikely between Afghanistant and Pakistan in the mountainous border area…..but what do I care? He is ineffective where he is…if he isn’t already dead.
Been awhile since we heard from him isn’t it?
Comment by notaravinglefty
On the border!!?!?! Are you joking? We would have to have the dumbest military ever for that to be true…
but what do I care?
Yep just like the traitorous Bush… does not care about the person blamed for 911… Your leader let Osama get away. You should not only care you should be angry and ashamed.
He is ineffective where he is
Or planing his next move? I bet the next 911 will take a bit of time to get setup… but nevermind you and Bush dont care…
if he isn’t already dead.
Been awhile since we heard from him isn’t it?
All except for those videos he has released… and the fire in the hearts of arabs that want a leader to show them how to stand up to the west…
February 18th, 2007 at 3:52 pmWhat a yellow-bellied, spineless, draft dodgin coward to criticize Murtha
February 18th, 2007 at 3:54 pmThe definition you seek has already been provided over and over again. Why would I think you would comprehend it this time if I said it again?
Embarrass myself? No, just speaking Truth to Moonbats!!
Comment by notaravinglefty
Your kind has never once defined “winning” and stuck to it. Everytime you were proven wrong you said “No! no! 3 out of 4!”
If I did my job like your buddy Bush I would be fired. And so would you. You are a lemming. A sheep. Feel proud.
February 18th, 2007 at 3:54 pmDarren,
The chances that you are a GOP “astroturfer” (a low end GOP temp or intern who lurks on comment boards and chat rooms dropping Republican talking points all day) are infinitely greater than the possibility that you are a vet.
The “Do you want us to win” bit was a GOP straw man that they (Tony Snow, Lynne Cheney, Bill Kristol, and a few more) all trotted out in mid December to throw at skeptical journalists, hoping to freeze them in their tracks.
Shame on you. Bush, Cheney, Rummy, Fox News, Limbaugh, Judy Miller and the rest of you like-minded evil clowns got us into a needless situation that is by definition UNWINNABLE. And there was no reason to go into Iraq anyhow. It was criminal, and based on deliberately ginned up lies. Check out the hearings on Douglas Feith’s shadow intel for starters…
So shame on you even trying the “Do you want us to win?” ploy. We’re in the middle of a civil war at best, ethnic cleansing at worst. We’ve doubled Iran’s strength and influence in the region, and no one is even talking about that fact that our “allies” the Saudis are arming the Sunni insurgancy that is responsible for 92% of US casualties.
What the hell do you define as a win now ?????
February 18th, 2007 at 3:58 pmEven those hacks you mention as Monnbathras buddies on the inside did not have the full truth of the matter, which was borne out when the investigation was completed, and more information became available.
Moonbathra has people in the military who trust him? No, just raving asshats such as yourself who care more about a political agenda who don’t care whether someone would get a fair trial.
Comment by notaravinglefty
Have you followed the trial? One or more admited to it and leaks have come out of the trial making it clear that this is not a huge mistake… but actually happened. And it makes no difference if the trial is over or not. Unless of coarse you are trying to make the claim that Murtha is one of the judges or jury or something.
February 18th, 2007 at 4:01 pmComment by notaravinglefty — February 18, 2007 @ 3:12 pm
You’ve just found someone guilty before a trial (to terrorists caught on the battlefield ) so your question is self-conclusory.
Comment by notaravinglefty — February 18, 2007 @ 3:40 pm
In a word: no. You’re turn: show exactly which rights were violated.
February 18th, 2007 at 4:03 pmHume speaks with such disrespect for the democratic process, you’d think the fix was already in with Chief Justice Roberts for Election 2008.
February 18th, 2007 at 4:08 pm
Faux News:
February 18th, 2007 at 4:09 pm“We dissemble, you decide”
How absurd. Made only absurder by the fact that William Kristol was sitting just to Brit Hume’s left — who has been more wrong about Iraq than Kristol? No one, except maybe Hume.
February 18th, 2007 at 4:09 pmSo what did Brit Hume say that was inaccurate?
If you can’t see that Murtha has been a doddering imbecile for the alst few years, you have set your sights pretty low for congressional representation.
February 18th, 2007 at 4:10 pm#304 – Comment by Briseadh na Faire — February 18, 2007 @ 4:03 pm
Glad to see you here.
Q: Can a President be impeached in the House and convicted in the Senate posthumously?
February 18th, 2007 at 4:13 pmWell, at Murtha’s age, he might not be up to Brit Hume’s grueling three hours a day of make-up and teleprompter-reading, but he is more plugged into the realities of war and its consequences than all of FOX News’ spokesmodels put together.
Oh, Brit, Prince of Unintentional Irony.
February 18th, 2007 at 4:22 pmWe are the ones that put We The People into law above all else. The rest of the world has been following us ever since.
Comment by Gerald Gibson Jr
You sure are talking about France.
February 18th, 2007 at 4:25 pmCan a President be impeached in the House and convicted in the Senate posthumously?
Since the sole purpose of impeachment and conviction is removal from office, I’d say the answer is, no. Death effectively removes one from office.
February 18th, 2007 at 4:27 pmNo, Vince. Yours was the most idiot statement today.
February 18th, 2007 at 4:30 pmCan a President be impeached in the House and convicted in the Senate posthumously?
Also, note what happened in a recent criminal case:
Ken Lay’s conviction tossed out by judge
Conspiracy, fraud verdicts vacated because late Enron founder can’t appeal.
Judge Sim Lake’s decision terminates the criminal case against Lay and its effects on his estate, which was left to Lay’s wife, Linda.
February 18th, 2007 at 4:32 pmCan Murtha even hold his piss? I bet he’s got some depends under his pants. hahaha
All this indignation over questioning the intelligence over the congressman. Pot meet kettle.
February 18th, 2007 at 4:36 pmComment by Briseadh na Faire — February 18, 2007 @ 4:27 pm
Thanks.
I ask that wondering if there is a “remedy” or “national correction” (i.e. signal to the rest of the world) so to speak that GW Botch cannot stop after leaving office?
Can we “historically” punish him? Trash his legacy?
If so, how?
February 18th, 2007 at 4:40 pmI am totally convinced Brit that Murtha is more aware of what is happening in Iraq in his spare time than you, Hannity, Malkin and all of the rest of the warmongering chickenhawks over at Faux Snooze combined! Quit blabbing your collective, uninformed mouthes off and hop a plane over to Iraq and help out then ok!? Please!
February 18th, 2007 at 4:42 pmvince p is completely paranoid.
February 18th, 2007 at 4:43 pmYea and how many times has murtha left the comfy green zone when he has been there. Murtha comments show he doesn’t know jack S&*t about what is going on in Iraq. I have been there two tours and think he has totally lost his mind whenever he talks about Iraq (especially how great we Soldiers have it over there). Stop the lie, you just stick by him because he gives the left credibility on military matters… when in fact anyone who knows anything about the military thinks he’s a bit out there…
February 18th, 2007 at 4:45 pmI always thought that “smear” referred to telling an untruth, or suggesting a connection that wasn’t there. What Hume and McCain are doing is called “criticizing”. Just like what this blog does. Quel coincidence, eh?
Many people appear to have an incomplete understanding of what free speech encompasses; it applies to people who disagree with you, too.
February 18th, 2007 at 4:45 pmEver notice that Brit has kind of a blank brain washed kind of look to him. Like he’s just given up on doubting the establishment and given in to them. I think he’s projecting when he says that Murtha isn’t very smart. Oh, and I starting to think McCain is a tool. Too bad, I used to like him.
February 18th, 2007 at 4:45 pmCan we “historically†punish him? Trash his legacy?
If so, how?
Comment by dixie blood
You sound dangerous. *Forward to Secret service*
February 18th, 2007 at 4:47 pmvince p is completely paranoid.
Comment by podman —
Podman is completely a lefty clone.
February 18th, 2007 at 4:48 pmWe are the ones that put We The People into law above all else. The rest of the world has been following us ever since.
Comment by Gerald Gibson Jr
You sure are talking about France.
Comment by Juan C
No we did it first… France later.
February 18th, 2007 at 4:49 pmYours was the most idiot statement today.
Comment by Juan C — February 18, 2007 @ 4:30 pm
Which one? There are so many to choose from….
Which one is your favorite?
February 18th, 2007 at 4:51 pmVince paranoid? No WAY!
You sound dangerous. *Forward to Secret service*
Comment by Vince P
Did mommy forget to teach you that the bogeyman IS NOT REAL?
Doubtful.
February 18th, 2007 at 4:51 pmI would have more faith in what Jack Murtha espouses as having come from “The Marines” and his “friends in the “Military” if he would ever visit the troops who are being deployed and redeployed at eithe Camp Pendleton or Camp LeJeunne. That is where real troop opinion can be heard and felt.
February 18th, 2007 at 4:56 pmWhat Hume means when he says Murtha is uninformed is best described by Mark Steyn’s little appreciated masterpiece, “America Alone.” Joe Lieberman loves this book, while Murtha obviously just doesn’t get it.
February 18th, 2007 at 4:56 pmBrae
You’ve done two tours of duty so can you tell me what it’s like in Iraq?
Thanks
February 18th, 2007 at 4:57 pmThe only person that I know that watches Fox Nuts is an idiot named Norm, who sent me an e-mail this morning stating that global warming is a liberal hoax. That tells you something about their audiance. Maybe Congress should make them state the obvious at the beginning of each day, that they are an arm of the Repulsive Party. That way any money they spend should be counted as political expenditures by the Bushit White House.
February 18th, 2007 at 4:57 pmMike Case: The Regressives here don’t read books. When was the last time you saw one of them cite one?
February 18th, 2007 at 4:58 pmI found a useful anagram for this situation:
“Brit Hume, Talking Head”
converts to
“The Big Dank Murtha Lie”
February 18th, 2007 at 4:59 pmYou sound dangerous. *Forward to Secret service*
Comment by Vince P — February 18, 2007 @ 4:47 pm
You sound stupid. *Forward to local school system*
February 18th, 2007 at 5:00 pmYou liberals are just unbelievable!!! Such examples of your intelligent discourse show how the American public will wake up, send the house and senate back to the Repblicans in 08, along with keeping the Presidency. Your a bunch of whining, stupid losers….stay that way, I love it.
February 18th, 2007 at 5:02 pmAnd, by the way, FOX news channel is number 1 in the rankings…go eat yourself..
February 18th, 2007 at 5:04 pmWhy doesn’t Jack Murtha visit Camp Pendleton or Camp LeJeune and talk to the real troops and not his old cronies in he D.C. area? If he would do that his views on the fight in Iraq and the Persian Gulf might have a better ring of truth. If Nancy wanted to latch onto a military/defense expert she should have turned to Ike Skelton.
February 18th, 2007 at 5:04 pmThe true losers are you idiot Neocon bootlickers who come here because you don’t have any other audience for your stupidity. That is the sign of a LOSER. Just like the Repukes back in November!!!!
Classic.
February 18th, 2007 at 5:06 pmAlso, note what happened in a recent criminal case:
Ken Lay’s conviction tossed out by judge
Conspiracy, fraud verdicts vacated because late Enron founder can’t appeal.
Judge Sim Lake’s decision terminates the criminal case against Lay and its effects on his estate, which was left to Lay’s wife, Linda.
Comment by Briseadh na Faire
>
Which brings me to the next “logical” line of questioning Briseadh na Faire.
Did Ken Lay REALLY die? I mean has this been medically and scientifically proven?
I would hate to think that sob is “sunning” himself in the Saychelles or something right now, while talking to George HW Bush on his “military frquency” “closed channel” radio or SAT syatem while George is “hot-tubbing” with Negroponte at the “fort” in Kennebunkport, Mass.
I guess I haven`t looked very hard, but I CANNOT find any info on Ken Lay’s “heart attack”(?) nor an autopsy report. And didn’t he die the day “before” he was scheduled in court or very near to?
But then again, if you have embezzled billions, buying off a few “Texas” doctors and lawyers and judges wouldn’t be aby big feat. The system of “law” down in Texas HAS to be just as crooked and criminal as the people whom PUT THEM THERE.
I don’t believe this son of a bitch IS dead. I think this is his immediate “pardon” from the Jr Bush, ORDERED by the Senior Bush. Then again, if Lay had alot of “insider” information and dealings with Bush Sr., it is possible Sr. may have had him offed for good himself to keep him quiet.
No? If anyone can find a link or two that proves “decisively” supposedly, (for all we know) that Ken Lay IS actually DEAD then feel free to post.
Thanks.
February 18th, 2007 at 5:08 pmComment by null — February 18, 2007 @ 5:04 pm
He’s actually been to Iraq moron!! Find a fact!! Get a clue!!! You @!#$
February 18th, 2007 at 5:12 pmSomething abour Hume’s demeanor tells me there’s some Cheney back in his bloodline somewhere.
February 18th, 2007 at 5:18 pmiNSERVE
Can you provide me with examples please?
February 18th, 2007 at 5:23 pmis this board permeated by mongrels errr muslims from londonistan or what? why would any westerner defend these muslim dogs? the more we kill the better.
February 18th, 2007 at 5:26 pmdixie blood,
Murtha has been there like 4-5 times in the last 1.5 years I believe.
null,
>
Why doesn’t Jack Murtha visit Camp Pendleton or Camp LeJeune and talk to the real troops and not his old cronies in he D.C. area? If he would do that his views on the fight in Iraq and the Persian Gulf might have a better ring of truth. If Nancy wanted to latch onto a military/defense expert she should have turned to Ike Skelton.
Comment by null
Pure strawman, and here is the “key transition point” in your statement/strawman provocation.
>
might have a better ring of truth.
>
You can defend something you do not know the answer to to infinitum, it still does not make you correct. However, when you throw this kind of statement out there, it infers that only YOU know the unvarnished”truth” about what is “really” happening in Iraq, thusly you always hold ALL of the cards in an argument and anyone who argues with you is ALWAYS wrong. You INFER that YOU and YOU alone knows the truth.
Because your “argument” is based not on fact, but your belief, no matter how misguided it may be.
You are trolling my little suckerfish. This EX troll just handed you your ass for your hat and now how do you feel little coward?
YOU…..have been outted.
Get this amateur outta my sight!
Next troll!
February 18th, 2007 at 5:27 pmmohammad’s 6 yr old wife,
IS A TROLL!! And I KNOW my trolls because I am one, in remission.
DO NOT ANSWER!!
rachel
February 18th, 2007 at 5:31 pmVince P has lost everything he holds dear but his righteous indignation.
February 18th, 2007 at 5:42 pmVince P has lost everything he holds dear but his righteous indignation.
Comment by smy —
On this site he should be known as Vince Pstain, as he is nothing more than a scared little boy, who can’t control himself.
February 18th, 2007 at 5:46 pmOn this site he should be known as Vince Pstain, as he is nothing more than a scared little boy, who can’t control himself.
Comment by Barfly —
Or as Zooey calls them, “piss soaked trolls”
Just sayin…
February 18th, 2007 at 5:49 pmWhat can we do about fock’s newz ?
We need a group of intelligent individuals to execute a deliberate
February 18th, 2007 at 5:59 pmand endless offensive aimed directly at destroying their business.
That is “tremendous cachet”, not “tremendous cache”.
February 18th, 2007 at 6:03 pmHey! Don’t pick on Fox and its “boys”. Here in New Zealand we have only just started to receive it 24/7. We never thought we would ever get a 24-hour comedy channel as good as this. Chief clown, Bill O’Rielley, is the top laugh provider followed by Britney Spe, oops, Hume.
February 18th, 2007 at 6:09 pmAs the golfers say: “These guys are good!”
Thanks.
Comment by rachel — February 18, 2007 @ 5:08 pm
Kenneth Lay press release and postmortem examination report
Release Date: July 19, 2006
Released By: County
Type of Information: Press Release
On July 19th 2006 The Pitkin County Sheriff’s Office received the full autopsy results of Mr. Kenneth Lay from Dr. Robert Kurtzman. The manner of death has not changed, and is classified as natural. The immediate cause of death was classified as arteriosclerotic cardio vascular disease. Based on these findings this case is now closed, there is no evidence of any criminal activity. The post mortem report is available on http://www.aspenpitkin.com.
Joe DiSalvo
Director of Investigations
Pitkin County Sheriff’s Office
Supplemental information (in PDF format): Kenneth Lay Postmortem Examination Report
The best I could do is find the official post mortem statement. His remains were creamated.
February 18th, 2007 at 6:13 pmHere’s your problem: when Murtha say AQ will leave once we leave, he is exposing his ignorance of the situation.
February 18th, 2007 at 6:20 pmRachel: that guy who said Mohemmed married a 6 year old girl is nto a troll.
Tabari VII:7 “The Prophet married Aisha in Mecca three years before the Hijrah, after the death of Khadija. At the time she was six.” Ishaq:281 “When the Apostle came to Medina he was fifty-three.” Tabari VII:6 “In May, 623 A.D./A.H. 1, Allah’s Messenger consummated his marriage to Aisha.”
Tabari IX:128 “When the Prophet married Aisha, she was very young and not yet ready for consummation.”
Tabari IX:131 “My mother came to me while I was being swung on a swing between two branches and got me down. My nurse took over and wiped my face with some water and started leading me. When I was at the door she stopped so I could catch my breath. I was brought in while Muhammad was sitting on a bed in our house. My mother made me sit on his lap. The other men and women got up and left. The Prophet consummated his marriage with me in my house when I was nine years old.”
Tabari VII:7 “There are special features in me that have not been in any woman except for what Allah bestowed on Maryam bt. Imran [She was referring to Mary, the mother of Jesus, although she didn't know her name or her father’s name, and none of the "features" applied]. I do not say this to exalt myself over any of my companions.’ ‘What are these.’ someone asked. Aisha replied, ‘The angel brought down my likeness [she was a babe]; the Messenger married me when I was seven; my marriage was consummated when I was nine [she was abused]; he married me when I was a virgin, no other man having shared me with him [she was a child]; inspiration came to him when he and I were in a single blanket [she "inspired" him]; I was one of the dearest people to him; a verse of the Qur’an was revealed concerning me when the community was almost destroyed [she inspired Allah]; and I saw Gabriel when none of his other wives saw him [she lied].’”
Bukhari:V4B52N211 “I participated in a Ghazwa [raid] with the Prophet. I said, ‘Apostle, I am a bridegroom.’ He asked me whether I had married a virgin or matron. I answered, ‘A matron.’ He said, ‘Why not a virgin who would have played with you? Then you could have played with her.’ ‘Apostle! My father was martyred and I have some young sisters, so I felt it not proper that I should marry a young girl as young as them.’”
February 18th, 2007 at 6:34 pmthe more we kill the better.
Comment by mohammad’s 6 yr old wife #342
If you have one…
…lose your job…
…your health…
…your sanity…
…your family…
…then experience hell on a daily basis…
…beg to die, but live with unimaginable suffering…
…what and whereever you are…
February 18th, 2007 at 6:39 pmBrit Hume ratted out his own wife (also an employee at Fox)…
…to the Fox thought police…
…trying to score points with his lord and pimp…
…Roger Ailes…
…how vile is that?
February 18th, 2007 at 6:42 pmBukhari:V5B57N119
“The people used to send presents to the Prophet on the day of Aisha’s turn [to have sex with him].
Aisha said, ‘His other wives gathered in the apartment of Um Salama [wife number two] and said, “Um, the people send presents on the day of Aisha’s turn and we too, love the good presents just as much as she does. You should tell Allah’s Apostle to order the people to send their presents to him regardless of whose turn it may be.”
Um repeated that to the Prophet and he turned away from her. When the Prophet returned to Um, she repeated the request again. The Prophet again turned away.
After the third time, the Prophet said, “Um, don’t trouble me by harming Aisha, for by Allah, the Divine Inspiration [Qur’an surahs] never came to me while I was under the blanket of any woman among you except her.”‘”
February 18th, 2007 at 6:47 pmAnyone who supports a dullard like George Bush, who doesn’t know whether Africa is a country or a continent, has little justification in attributing naivete or lack of international awareness to John Murtha.
February 18th, 2007 at 6:49 pmVince,
Can you/do you ever stay on topic?
“Got brains?”
February 18th, 2007 at 6:59 pmThe topic is Murtha doesn’t know what is going on in the world.
I am showing what is going on in the world. How am I not on topic?
February 18th, 2007 at 7:04 pmWho made this transcript, you or Fox itself? Hume may be an idiot, but the word he was using was “cachet,” not “cache,” as shown in your transcript.
February 18th, 2007 at 7:09 pmI am showing what is going on in the world
NEWS FLASH:
These things you are “showing” us are NOT going on in the World right at this moment, dolt, therefore, NOT ON TOPIC.
February 18th, 2007 at 7:16 pmI am showing what is going on in the world. How am I not on topic?
Comment by Vince P
No Vince…
THIS is what’s going on in the world:
Israel will probably be “compelled” by the U.S. to instigate a war with Iran…
…If Bushiva and L’il Dick have shown nothing else they’ve shown their penchants for being degenerate gamblers with OTHER people’s lives (and treasure)…
…Israel will probably bomb the Natanz facilities, then the U.S. will provide some air assistance…
…but what both governments are betting on is that the Russians and Chinese will accept this new aggression, and abandonment of international law…
…I’d be willing to bet they won’t…
…the Russians and Chinese will seize this opportunity to escalate their support for Iran’s covert ops against the U.S. military in Iraq…
…and al Qaeda’s attacks against oil interests in Saudi Arabia (as well as providing intelligence and logistical support for terrorism against U.S. corporate and military assets across the globe)…
…naked aggression will cause strange alliances btwn the Iranians, Russians, Chinese and radical al Qaeda and other Islamist elements…
…and Israeli forces will come under attack from Hezbollah, Hamas, and and various other Islamic factions from Libya, Algeria, and Pakistan (to name a few countries)…
…the British, French and Germans (out of disgust for the Bushites and Olmert) will withdraw even limited support for the U.S…
…in effect the Russians, Chinese and radical (and mainstream Islamic factions) will step up operations against the U.S. and Israel in an attempt to bleed the U.S. and Israelis…
…and I haven’t even begun to talk about the financial consequences such a move (attacking Iran) would provoke- collapsing the Bush dollar…
…there are powerful financial interests in Iran held by the EU, Russia and China…
…and the U.S. (criminal Bushite regime/Israel) already have a HUGE image problem…
…attacking Iran would be a lose-lose situation all the way around…
…but COULD spell the ruin (economically) of the U.S. which has a huge monetary exposure in Asia…
February 18th, 2007 at 7:21 pmOK, deep breath, I didn’t realize I was going to have to debate with so many who only are interested in ad hominem attacks, “creative” language and insults. First, in response to one of you who accused me of being something like a “RoveKKKer”…I’m headed out to my second rotation with an Air Force unit in a few weeks (sorry, you don’t get to know that until I return).
Now, for those of you that want me to define “win.” I see none of you answered my question of whether you want the U.S. to win in Iraq. You instead answered with your own questions. So, let me answer. Winning means we create an atmosphere where we provide incentives to the Iraqi people – economic, social and military for those who wish to have self determination. We do this by increasing, not decreasing the pressure on terrorists – yes, they are terrorists – anyone who indiscrimnantly blows up innocent children, women and men is a terrorist. We continue to pressure the areas in the Sunni triangle and Sadr City as we’ve done over the last week to rid them of these terrorists. Yes Virginia, that means we have to be willing to put more troops around those areas in a cordon and eradicate those who care about no one’s life, not even their own.
Next, we pressure those countries like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Syria and Iran to stop providing safe havens for AQ and other groups through economic incentives and international pressure. In Saudi Arabia and Pakistan we work to change the teachings in the Madrasses – the places where the most strict Wahhabi teachings of Sunni Islam are used to brainwash young children.
Is this easy? Of course not. But, it is necessary. Those who have perverted Islam into the Jihad against the West won’t go away if we leave Iraq, Afghanistan, the Phillipines, Indonesia, etc., they will only be more encouraged and see the U.S. as weak.
These are people who want to eliminate our way of life. They don’t want people to have the types of freedoms each of us on this comment board have. You may think that hyperbole, but I know of Iranians who spoke out against their government on similar sites and were arrested.
My bottomline for each of you is this: What do you really think will be accomplished that is ultimately, strategically good for the United States and the non-Islamic world if the U.S. leaves Iraq without having fought to win?
February 18th, 2007 at 7:21 pmComment by Vince P — February 18, 2007 @ 7:04 pm
Sounds like you’re as clueless as Hume assuses Murtha of being.
February 18th, 2007 at 7:24 pmDon’t believe me… here’s info from Afghanistan.. the legacy of the taliban lives on.. more than 1/2 the females in the entire country were given up to marrage BEFORE THEY WERE 16. Following the example of the prophet.
“A study conducted by the Ministry of Women’ Affairs in 2004 showed that 57 per cent of women surveyed were married before they were 16. Some were reported to be as young as nine.”
February 18th, 2007 at 7:37 pmNow, for those of you that want me to define “win.†I see none of you answered my question of whether you want the U.S. to win in Iraq
Comment by Darren #363
Take a deep breath yourself and do the math Darren…
…If “victory” in Iraq is measured by the success or failure of America’s self-interests being “secured” by the actions Bush has taken…
…and America’s self-interest(s) are outlined as :
1) Homeland security
2) energy security
3) spread of capitalism/democracy
4) return on investment (monetarily)
…then the mission has failed miserably…
…for the HUNDREDS of BILLIONS spent to date…
…additional HUNDREDS of BILLIONS-TRILLIONS to be spent in the future (on the severely wounded, reconstruction and maintaining/containing the region)…
…the hundreds of thousands of destroyed lives…
…the generations of lifelong enemies made…
…the ruination of American credibility and good will…
…the explosively divided political situation at home…
I could go on and on…
…point is…
…had we offered Saddam a fraction of what we’ve spent to simply leave the country with his family (and great wealth)…
…we could have actually ACHIEVED our objectives, while holding in tact our wealth, integrity and unity…
February 18th, 2007 at 7:38 pmYou people are quick to say that I don’t know what I’m talking about. But i assure you, the things I say here are all backed up from research. indeed, it’s you stupid idiots who dont know anything.
Now you’re going to defend them and thier forced child marrages.
February 18th, 2007 at 7:40 pmAnyone who spends time on other blogs with people who are actually able to think will notice a stark contrast to this one. This one is full of putulant arrogant lefties, who dont know jack and just tear down everyone and everything. At other places people discuss facts and abstractions with the hope of getting to the objective truth.
None of you theorize anything, none of you hold up anything as a princple to defend, none of you offer solutions. Its all about your dull politics and precious socialist political party.
you are haters, traitors, gossipers, weak and cowards. Disgraceful.
February 18th, 2007 at 7:46 pmHere’s some info from folks who are in Iraq or monitor Iraq information. You would never this was going on from listening to anti-Bush media:
Al-Baghdadi also feels compelled to tell his fighters to take it easy with the other jihadist groups, which have yet to join the Islamic State of Iraq, while at the same time telling the holdouts that their obstinacy smells of sedition. There are other reports that insurgents are clashing among themselves as Al Qaeda imposes its hegemony over one and all, to the point that al-Baghdadi is compelled to tell his guys that “I am certain that the sincere monotheists are surely coming” our way “eventually, so be tender, be tender.”
—
For most Sunnis, the insurgency has come to be about communal survival, rather than communal revival. They no longer harbor fantasies of recapturing power. They are on the run and are losing the turf war with the Shiites for Baghdad.
Sunni sectarian attacks, usually conducted by jihadists, finally provoked the Shiites to turn to their most brazen militias — the ones who would not heed Ayatollah Sistani’s call for pacifism — to conduct painful reprisals against Sunnis, usually while wearing official military fatigues and carrying government issued weapons. The Sunnis came to realize that they were no longer facing ragtag fighters, but rather they were confronting a state with resources and with a monopoly on lethal force. The Sunnis realized that by harboring insurgents they were inviting retaliation that they could do little to defend against.
Sadly, it took many thousands of young Sunnis getting abducted by death squads for the Sunnis to understand that in a full-fledged civil war, they would likely lose badly and be evicted from Baghdad. I believe that the Sunnis and insurgents are now war weary, and that this is a turnaround point in the campaign to stabilize Iraq.
Still, major bombings will continue for many years, for Al Qaeda will remain oblivious to all evidence of the insurgency’s eventual defeat. The Baathists, and jihadist groups like Ansar al-Sunna, the Islamic Army of Iraq, and the 1920 Revolution Brigades, may be collapsing due to aimlessness and despair, but Al Qaeda still enjoys the clarity of zealotry and fantasy. Right now, they are arm-twisting other jihadist groups to submit to them and are also taking credit for the large-scale fighting that continues in Iraq.
–
Despite all that the Al-Qaeda organization has contributed in challenging the occupation, but they have also broken the back of national unity in Iraq and they resulted in bringing great suffering upon Iraqis, and the Al-Qaeda organization bears [responsibility] for a large part of the bombings among civilians, and that [manner of] targeting does not differentiate between a Sunni or a Shi’i or a child, and the targeting of Shi’as is a crime in every respect, and we condemn anyone who has committed such acts.
These acts gave the excuse for the Safavid sectarian militias, of which we absolve our Shi’a [brethren], it gave the excuse for it to retaliate and go to the Sunni neighborhoods to kill 4 or 5 or 10 times the number that was killed of the Shi’as.
…Al-Qaeda couldn’t protect people!! And Al-Qaeda bears responsibility for the displacement of 2 million Iraqis!! Because it conducted the bombings that set things ablaze…
…Al-Qaeda has a political program that it wants to implement in Iraq…
…Unfortunately, and I say this to all the Muslim audience and all those sympathizers with the Iraqi jihad, some members in the Al-Qaeda organization have begun assassination operations against heroic symbols of the resistance, unfortunately! Why? Because some groups in the Al-Qaeda organization or what they call today the Islamic State want us to pledge allegiance to the Islamic State of Iraq and its leader, or else you are supposed to sit aside and are barred from conducting any jihadist operation under any resistance banner apart from that of Al-Qaeda. I say to Sheikh Abu Omar: how can you force us to pledge allegiance to someone whose real name we don’t know? How do you want us to pledge allegiance to a State that we don’t know who its ministers are? How do we pledge allegiance to a State where we don’t know who is the minister, or the governor, or the leader or its emir? No names and nothing else, and no places either, and how do you want us to pledge allegiance to a State which we weren’t consulted about at the time of its declaration.
February 18th, 2007 at 7:49 pmThese are people who want to eliminate our way of life. They don’t want people to have the types of freedoms each of us on this comment board have.
First “You Want Us To Lose”. Then “They Hate Us For Our Freedom” and “They Want To Kill Us” in the same sentence. When you can come up with something that isn’t just a Bush talking point, then maybe we’ll take you seriously.
February 18th, 2007 at 7:49 pmIt is interesting that Brit Humes comments provoke such vituperative howling – generally in the form of ad hominem attacks on Hume rather than any attempt to actually defend or argue the case for the sagacity of Dick Murtha.
February 18th, 2007 at 7:52 pmI thought his first name was John.
February 18th, 2007 at 7:54 pm…How do you want us to pledge allegiance to the sectarian Islamic State of Iraq with its sectarian title!! And at the same time we oppose and challenge the federalist project, and oppose the [Vilayet-el-Faqih]!! Just as we oppose the hegemony of the sectarian parties on the political process!! Your [plan] will lead to sedition!!
…Why was Omar Mahmoud al-Falahi killed? The preacher and imam of the Nazzal mosque in Fallouja, before he was [about to deliver a sermon], and he is one of the sincere resistors of Fallouja!! And one of the heroes, and those who are respected, so why was he killed, and why was Sheikh Muhanned al-Ghurairi killed, when he was one of the founders of the People of Iraq Conference, and you know and everyone knows that our brother Saddam al-Nu’aimi in the Sbeilat area near Abu Ghraib had three brothers arrested by the Safavids, and you know that a group from your end came and performed an attack near his fourth brother’s shop, which is his livelihood, and the army of occupation responded and his brother was killed in the response, and he stood and began to insult the Al-Qaeda organization, and what did you do to him, you took him and you threw his body onto the trash heap, because usually those who are abducted by the Al-Qaeda organization, we never find their bodies. And to this day we don’t know the place of the martyr Sheikh Hassib al-‘Arif, you kill people and then don’t say where their bodies are?! Who killed Maj. Gen. Wajeeh Bara’, was he an agent of the occupation or an infidel? You would always kill the imams on Friday on their way to [deliver the sermon on] the pulpit, why was Sheikh Ahmad Faraj killed? Because he said don’t fight among civilians.
…Have you heard in Islam that messengers get killed?! I sent a messenger to you with a letter to negotiate with you and you kill the messenger! One of your brigades in the Province of Salahuddin and in the district of Beiji-Tikrit killed a messenger who had gone to talk to you, they killed him! I don’t want to reveal more details and names because everyone will fall into security troubles, and it will weaken the resistance but I will tell you a story: now you want one of the sheikhs of the Arab Jebour area in the Dora area to hand over his son to be killed, have you heard of a father handing over his son, especially if he doesn’t think he’s committed a crime from his perspective. I tell you the issue is that you have somebody who killed many Iraqis in the Dora area, he kills officers, he imposes taxes and fines on people, he kills soldiers and policemen, and he kills resistors who refused to pledge allegiance to you, so the son of the sheikh killed this man of yours, but only after your man killed more than 50 men in Dora, and you want his father to turn him in without an investigation, without a trial!! Is this the State you want to establish? To kill people without an accusation, or investigation, without a judge or nothing.
…Is it religiously lawful for you to forcefully take the ammunition of other resistance groups because they refuse to pledge allegiance to the Islamic State, yes you have, and I don’t want to pledge allegiance to you, I am not your partner in the sectarian fighting, I am not your partner in the murder of civilians, I cannot pledge allegiance to killing a policeman or a soldier or a civilian!! The [sectarian] expulsions are due to you and for these acts you bear full responsibility.
…Today, the capital of your Islamic State in Ramadi is [undergoing a] starvation, inside the city of Ramadi there are areas that the government cannot reach, that doesn’t have [cooking] gas, or flour, and no one can enter Ramadi, even the government is powerless to do so because you control it and the people don’t have bread, which means that forcing us to pledge allegiance to the State, whose territories we don’t know, means you are forcing us to commit suicide.
…Okay, so if the Arabs come to perform jihad does that [allow you] to turn us into slaves because you are fighting the occupier, to force us to become subjects of this State.
February 18th, 2007 at 7:57 pmNo we did it first… France later.
Comment by Gerald Gibson Jr
You revolt against a foreign repressive regime. Thats called independence. After that there werent equal rights for everybody. Blacks didnt vote, for example. France revolted against a french monarchy, thats a revolution.
February 18th, 2007 at 8:05 pmSomehow, if Murtha and this pathetic asswipe were to duke it, poor Britty would swallow most of his dentures.
February 18th, 2007 at 8:07 pmExactly what has been accomplished in Iraq for the “Bush haters” to undo? Exactly how has the world been made safer?
My personal feelings for Bush (which are my own business and nobody else’s) have nothing to do with my opposition to this stupid war. I love this country in a way you will never understand. I give a damn about what happens to it, and to our troops, to a degree those you support never will (just look at any of the headlines about the horrible conditions of military hospitals). And all you have to answer that is “stupid idiots”.
I’ve seen better.
February 18th, 2007 at 8:08 pmYeah Brit, it’s a bitch he keeps going to “those funerals”. Must be making him soft.
February 18th, 2007 at 8:10 pmShFrBrns.
It was not possible to answer your question without knowing what “win” meant to you. I understand now that “winning” to you means through the use of force. In that case, no. I do not want the United States to “win.”
It’s a shame that the United States recruits young men and women into its armed forces without requiring them to first understand The Art of War, by Sun Tzu. The true victory is won without force.
And what does that say for our women and men in the Air Force dropping cluster bombs, and those launching missles from ships at sea, and those firing Artillery shells? Are they not terrorists as well?
From The Iraq Body Count:
In other words, the United States indiscriminately blew up innocent children, women, and men in Iraq. By your definition, the United States is a Terrorist State, and you, being in the Air Force, are a Terrorist belonging to a Terrorist Organization.
I want Humanity to win. The United States has already lost. And the more it relies on force, the more it will continue to lose. Victory by force is illusory and tempory. It achieves subservience through dominance. It must forever maintain the use of force in order to maintain the appearance of victory. Every Empire that has relied on victory by force has ultimately failed.
True Victory is victory of the heart and mind. Mankind has yet to achieve such a victory. But it is possible.
February 18th, 2007 at 8:15 pmBriseadh na Faire,
Thank you very much Briseadh na Faire.
Namaste!
February 18th, 2007 at 8:16 pmOK, first Big Papa
…and America’s self-interest(s) are outlined as :
1) Homeland security – Yes, our security is vital. Do you think our security is less now that we’re in Iraq? Keep in mind, those in Iraq, Syria, Aghanistan, Iran and the Phillipines affiliated with terrorist groups want to attack us regardless of Iraq.
2) energy security – Wait, I thought the war was only for oil. Isn’t that what people said? Well, so be it. Let’s keep at it and gurantee oil security. Yes, it is a matter of fact, we do have to have energy security. Last I checked the pipelines have now been running in Iraq very well for months.
3) spread of capitalism/democracy – Uh, let’s see, three free elections in Iraq in the last three years, two in Afghanistan. The Lebanese people, though struggling are freeing themselves from Syria. Do you think these things don’t worry Saudi Arabia and Iran?
4) return on investment (monetarily) – Wait, I thought this was a war for oil. Cynically then, we should be getting a great return on our investment. But, to put it in more blunt terms, if we kill as many terrorists in Iraq, Afghanistan, the Phillipines, etc as possible, then return on investment of not having them in the U.S. is pretty high. And, of course there is the long-term investment in helping the above referenced countries move towards democracy.
…then the mission has failed miserably…
…for the HUNDREDS of BILLIONS spent to date… How much did we spend on the Marshall Plan – Do you think it was a success?
…additional HUNDREDS of BILLIONS-TRILLIONS to be spent in the future (on the severely wounded, reconstruction and maintaining/containing the region)… See above response
…the hundreds of thousands of destroyed lives… “War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things…” See Germany post WWII
…the generations of lifelong enemies made… Which, as they are offered alternatives through a Marshall Plan like structure and the suggestions I made in the earlier posting will turn them into lifelong allies – see Japan post WWII.
…the ruination of American credibility and good will… I think that is an overstated inflation. American credibility and good will are still strong. I don’t know how much you travel overseas. I do a lot. I don’t see it as you do…
…the explosively divided political situation at home… Be truthful here. That situation is a direct result of people refusing to accept the outcome of the 2000 election and from that an outright hatred of President Bush.
I could go on and on…
…point is…
…had we offered Saddam a fraction of what we’ve spent to simply leave the country with his family (and great wealth)… We can debate whether he would have left. Do you think our good will in the world would’ve been better by letting him go. Would Muslims have appreciated that? Amnesty Int’l and others loved to point out how much of a mass murderer and torturer his regime was until we overthrew him.
…we could have actually ACHIEVED our objectives, while holding in tact our wealth, integrity and unity… I don’t think you really believe this. Its simply a point to try an emphasize your above missives. In truth, as I’ve read in this website, there are far too many who even reject us having gone into Afghanistan. Again, I think a lot of that is simply driven by a hatred of the current president.
Now for “Lee.” I’m sorry you feel I get “talking points” from someone other than myself. I make up my own mind by studing facts (and fiction) and reasoning each area out. Sorry to disappoint.
February 18th, 2007 at 8:17 pmGood job Darren. Not that anything you say will sway these people who are so poisoned by hatred of thier country that they openly want us attacked.
February 18th, 2007 at 8:20 pmComment by rachel — February 18, 2007 @ 8:16 pm
You’re welcome. I do hope this Rachel stays with us a long time.
Peace and Blessings.
February 18th, 2007 at 8:22 pmNew Trend On The Rise: The Patriotic Terrorist
by Greg Gutfeld
Whenever I visit this lovely blog, I usually run into someone – a “leftist,” if you will – who finds pleasure in things that make our country or the President look bad. I suppose I could say these angry types are no better than cheerleaders for terrorism. After all, both entities – the left and terrorists – seem to share the same desire: to put the US, humiliatingly, in its place.
But I would be wrong to say such things. Very wrong. Of course, “dissent is patriotic,” and the left is only critical of America because it simply loves our country much more than I do.
That’s why calling them terrorists would be intolerant and pretty shameful.
But what about “patriotic terrorists?”
That’s kinda neat.
What is a patriotic terrorist?
It is an American who claims to love his or her country while enjoying the enemy’s success against said country. It is a person who gets deeply offended if you question their patriotism, while also appearing to share the same ideals of the more spirited folk who like to blow up innocent people.
Patriotic terrorists love America with so much intensity that it appears to the untrained eye that they hate it. But it’s actually the most powerful form of “tough love” known to man, woman and Rosie O’Donnell. Patriotic terrorists love America so much that they realize it needs an intervention – and real terror is the only way to enable that intervention. In fact, to keep a mammoth, arrogant superpower like America in check, terrorism is the only thing we’ve got. Noam Chomsky knew this from the start, making him a patriotic terrorist of the highest order.
This is why he gets the chicks.
Hey, I bet you’ve probably wondered why Al Qaeda hasn’t struck in the US since 9/11. They don’t have to. It has its own offshoot franchise here at work already. Patriotic Terrorists.
Think about how much both groups have in common!
-Both patriotic terrorists and Al Qaeda want the US to abandon Iraq, for that reveals Bush and America to be monstrous, laughable failures. It does not matter to either group that the withdrawal from Iraq will make post-Vietnam look like an afternoon at Ikea shopping for a Hoggbo innerspring mattress.
-For patriotic terrorists and real terrorists, car bombs going off is music to their ears. It proves that you can’t offer democracy to troubled countries, as long as you’ve got terrorists standing in your way. And that’s great news for everyone who believes in checks and balances between the haves and the have nots! (Note: “haves” means the US. “Have nots” means those who hate the US)
-Patriotic terrorists and the more committed terrorists both believe that infractions at Guantanamo Bay are far worse than anything a genocidal dictator could muster, and such horrors possess far more PR potential in denigrating the US than anything involving Ed Begley Jr.
-Both patriotic terrorists and Al Qaeda terrorists believe the US desires to control the Middle East, empower evil Israel and expand it’s power base at the expense of innocent Arab lives. But both groups also realize that the US is too stupid to achieve these goals – and that makes being a patriotic terrorist loads of fun!
Are you a patriotic terrorist?
If you are intensely critical of the US, while tolerating homicidal enemies who condemn everything you previously claimed you are for – human rights, voting rights, gay rights, women’s rights, porn – then you’re a patriotic terrorist.
If you talk about tolerance constantly – and hilariously tolerate genocide and suicide bombers because those actions undermine your more intimate opposition, the American right – then you’re a patriotic terrorist.
The only difference between a patriotic terrorist and a real one? Real terrorists are simply patriotic terrorists who’ve taken the extra step – choosing to actually die for their beliefs – rather than simply talking about them at Spago. If Tim Robbins, Sean Penn, Michael Moore, and their ilk had real cojones, they’d all be wearing cute black vests – but stuffed with more than dog-eared copies of Deterring Democracy.
February 18th, 2007 at 8:24 pmHume has no clue. If fact, if it were not for the primary function of Fox news he would be unemployable as a “journalist”. There is a problem with the path Brit has followed; providing a rim-job for the Bush administration has a limited life span.
February 18th, 2007 at 8:28 pmComment by Vince P — February 18, 2007 @ 10:27 am
Comment by Vince P — February 18, 2007 @ 11:11 am
Comment by Vince P — February 18, 2007 @ 12:24 pm
Comment by Vince P — February 18, 2007 @ 1:10 pm
Comment by Vince P — February 18, 2007 @ 1:49 pm
Comment by Vince P — February 18, 2007 @ 2:11 pm
Comment by Vince P — February 18, 2007 @ 4:58 pm
Comment by Vince P — February 18, 2007 @ 7:04 pm
Comment by Vince P — February 18, 2007 @ 7:57 pm
?
February 18th, 2007 at 8:28 pmQuiz
http://www.gotoquiz.com/do_you_want_the_terrorists_to_win
I got this:
Your ‘Do You Want the Terrorists to Win’ Score: 11%
February 18th, 2007 at 8:31 pmComment by Darren — February 18, 2007 @ 8:17 pm
As far as I know, I am the only one here who voices an objection to the invasion of Afghanistan. You infer that I must therefore hate the current president. I assure you, I do not. Neither did I hate Saddam Hussein.
My objection to the invasion of Afghanistan stems from studying international law. The legal method of apprehending a criminal is to request extradition. Bush didn’t do that. He invaded and overthrew a sovereign power. It’s against the law to invade a country for the purpose of regime change. But Bush got the pipeline deal and left, with Bin Laden still at large and hundreds, if not thousands of innocent Afghanis dead.
Bush is, by your definition, a Terrorist. You are, by your definition, a Terrorist. Should you and Bush be treated as Terrorists?
February 18th, 2007 at 8:32 pmJoe, it looks like Vince is copying and pasting articles so he can flood the thread and dominate the discussion, thereby claiming victory just because his name’s all over the place. Guess it beats coming up with something of his own.
February 18th, 2007 at 8:32 pmIf you are intensely critical of the US, while tolerating homicidal enemies who condemn everything you previously claimed you are for – human rights, voting rights, gay rights, women’s rights, porn – then you’re a patriotic terrorist.
mmmm…last time I checked US government has killed more people than all modern Islam terrorists have ever dreamed of.
Vince, if you agree with the idea of killing Muslims is Ok, then dont get mad or frightened with the idea of some Muslims that want to kill you. Difference between people who think like you and terrorists is NONE.
February 18th, 2007 at 8:34 pmoh is Big Brother watching me? How Progressive.
February 18th, 2007 at 8:37 pmFor the last six years now I have read the posts on these sites about Fox News. I have a weak stomach and couldn’t stand to watch the channel myself. What I would like to know and could someone that does know, explain to me.
How come the creepiods at Fox News and the right wing blowhards like rush and coulter know more about what is going on in the world than our congress and our generals and soldiers in the field.
It seems to me if they were so interested in giving us the straight poop on Iraq they would visit the country themselves. Or are the like their fearless leaders bush and cheney…..too damn scared to visit Iraq.
February 18th, 2007 at 8:39 pmJoe, it looks like Vince is copying and pasting articles so he can flood the thread
[mocking]Joe, NO FAIR! Vince is providing lots of information to collaborate his points because he know we wouldn’t look at it if it was just linked.
and dominate the discussion
[mocking]And getting in the way of our 15 Minute Hate and slapping each other on the back on how we all sound the same
, thereby claiming victory just because his name’s all over the place. Guess it beats coming up with something of his own.
[mocking] I am shallow and superficial and I judge “winning” by the number of posts some writes not the actual content or arguments. I’m a girl
February 18th, 2007 at 8:40 pmAs far as I know, I am the only one here who voices an objection to the invasion of Afghanistan.
You are not alone. Count me in.
Darren, US achieved the greatest opium production in Afghanistan´s history. I guess those crops make Bush forget about OBL, right?
Terrorism, Vince and Darren, is fought with police work. Get over you fears.
February 18th, 2007 at 8:40 pmYou do know that quiz you posted was satire, don’t you?
February 18th, 2007 at 8:43 pmWhen will TP post Murtha’s comments Hume was referring to? People need to see it.
February 18th, 2007 at 8:43 pmAgain, I think a lot of that is simply driven by a hatred of the current president.
Comment by Darren #380
…this is no argument…
…your entire rebuttal is nothing more than a bunch of right wing racist scumbag inbred Bushite talking points…
…adding nothing of value in the way of refuting my corollary…
Darren,
…you’re a hopelessly stupid Bush worshipper…
…a party-before-country al Crackkker fool…
…you talk about fake elections, pipelines running smoothly (for whose benefit?), and “killing as many as (you) can”…
…you’re a do as I say not as I do hypocrite who wants to disarm the world (people of color) to ensure YOUR (al Crackkker) safety, when you’re unwilling to give up YOUR weapons…
…you believe that your al Crackkker life is more sacrosanct than “those” people, and that as an al Crackker you have the RIGHT to THEIR oil and natural resources…
…you’re a disgusting piece of dog excrement, who has no idea what being a human being is all about…
…and God is going to curse your house…
…your Karma demands it…
February 18th, 2007 at 8:44 pmIt’s a fair question, Tracy. Assuming that Hume was referring to specific statements rather than to Murtha in general, I’d welcome a little more context.
February 18th, 2007 at 8:48 pmYou do know that quiz you posted was satire, don’t you?
Comment by Lee — February 18, 2007 @ 8:43 pm
Duh. So much for having a light moment.
February 18th, 2007 at 8:50 pmI am shallow and superficial and I judge “winning†by the number of posts some writes not the actual content or arguments. I’m a girl
Comment by Vince P
Wow! Now you are degrading women with that statement. And, no, that wasnt satire. Maybe you should add girls to your little hate-fear list.
February 18th, 2007 at 8:54 pmVince, your “light” moments are as funny as cancer.
February 18th, 2007 at 9:00 pmuh oh Sudden Jihad Syndrome has struck AGAIN..
NASHVILLE, Tenn. — A local cab driver allegedly tried to run over two customers after a fight over religion became heated.
The incident happened early Sunday morning on the Vanderbilt campus and left one man hospitalized and a cab driver arrested, said police
Two students visiting from Ohio were coming from a bar downtown when they got into an argument with their driver over religion, said police. After they paid the driver he allegedly ran them down in a parking lot.
Ibrihim Ahmed, of United Cab, was arrested and charged with assault, attempted homicide and theft. One of the passengers, Andrew Nelson, managed to outrun the cab but Jeremy Invus was taken to the Vanderbilt University Medical Center with serious injuries, said police….
February 18th, 2007 at 9:01 pm…if the U.S. leaves Iraq without having fought to win?
Comment by Darren — February 18, 2007 @ 7:21 pm
strawman talking points and more bullshit…
asked you not to do that… jeesh…
i’d consider no more death and destruction a “win”… for all…
February 18th, 2007 at 9:01 pmIt’s okay Vince, they probably felt “threatened” by his “unusual”, un-American look and dress.
Friggin BIGOTED COWARD.
February 18th, 2007 at 9:09 pmVince must be being paid by the number of comments he posts on here.
February 18th, 2007 at 9:18 pmmust read…
Confronting Hackery…
By: Nicole Belle @ 4:20 PM – PST
…and far more nicely than I would have. Barbara of Mahablog noticed this White House-Talking-Point-disguised-as-an-Op/Ed:
February 18th, 2007 at 9:22 pm[...]
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/02/18/confronting-hackery/
“I’d welcome a little more context.”
Here? Are you kidding?
February 18th, 2007 at 9:52 pmThe Islamists have learned well from the experience of ethic groups in the Western world as John Andrews in World War III has stated.
David Steinmann writes:
Does Murtha know about these concepts?
Do Democrats?
Do you?
February 18th, 2007 at 9:54 pmWhen will TP post Murtha’s comments Hume was referring to? People need to see it.
Comment by Tracy — February 18, 2007 @ 8:43 pm
have you got a link? … post it, instead of bitchin’…
February 18th, 2007 at 10:03 pmComment by Vince P — February 18, 2007 @ 10:27 am
Comment by Vince P — February 18, 2007 @ 9:54 pm
In nearly 12 hours of comments you haven’t convinced a single liberal of anything, except the fact that you are have no credibility.
You are wasting your time here. You haven’t converted anyone to a single cut-and-paste point of view you hold, and, if anything, you have done the exact opposite of your intentions – you’ve emboldened us in our own points of view for seeing how angry and irrational you are.
If you’re selling anything here Vince, it’s why your side lost on November 7th, and while you will continue to lose as long as George W Bush is a memory to the voting public.
How freaking sad…
February 18th, 2007 at 10:08 pmHere? Are you kidding?
Comment by Tracy — February 18, 2007 @ 9:52 pm
Don’t be such a sheep – go research it yourself.
“The Google” is free to use…
February 18th, 2007 at 10:10 pmDo you?
Comment by Vince P — February 18, 2007 @ 9:54 pm
I’ll ask again. Do you have a thought of your own?
February 18th, 2007 at 10:12 pm[mocking] I am shallow and superficial and I judge “winning†by the number of posts some writes not the actual content or arguments. I’m a girl
Comment by Vince P — February 18, 2007 @ 8:40 pm
Who the hell do you go shoe shopping with?
Oh, don’t like the stereotyping? Neither do women. Knock it off.
Clearly most of us women have more depth and individual thoughts on our worst days than you do on your best day…
Freak.
February 18th, 2007 at 10:15 pm#408
Ask TP to do it. They obviously have the resources, but as you can see they love edit to let you see and hear what they want you to. Little girl I suggest you start bitching to the right people unless you like to be nothing more than a propaganda cheerleader for TP.
February 18th, 2007 at 10:17 pm#363 Darren
Now, for those of you that want me to define “win.†I see none of you answered my question of whether you want the U.S. to win in Iraq.
Ask us if we want the U.S. to lose in Iraq. Go ahead, just ask it directly. Instead of doing it backwards and saying “Well, if you don’t want the U.S. to win in Iraq, you must want the U.S. to lose,” rather than make that presumption, just ask the question directly: “Do you want the U.S. to lose in Iraq?”
I’ll answer that. No.
Do I want the troops left in Iraq, expected to win in an unwinnable situation? No.
February 18th, 2007 at 10:18 pm#410
Sheep? You have quitely been avoid this for the last two weeks! LOL!
http://www.northcarolinagasprices.com/
How many more weeks would you like for prices to hit over $3.00 like you predicted?
February 18th, 2007 at 10:19 pmTP should terminate the threads when they reach 500 posts, so this one has about 85 to go.
February 18th, 2007 at 10:22 pm413: I thought your question deserved respect, and I think I treated it with respect. I’m sorry to see that you’re not willing to extend me the same courtesy.
I’m sorry I’m such a disappointment to you.
February 18th, 2007 at 10:22 pmSheep? You have quitely been avoid this for the last two weeks! LOL!
Avoiding? No, Tracy, I haven’t seen you in quite a while. And I’ve been here.
http://www.northcarolinagasprices.com/
How many more weeks would you like for prices to hit over $3.00 like you predicted?
Comment by Tracy — February 18, 2007 @ 10:19 pm
It hasn’t been 6 months yet. I know counting is a problem for you, so let me help…
1 December
2 January
3 February
4 March
5 April
6 May
That help?
I will say that since the Democrats have been investigating everyone, and Nacy Pelosi has made mention of Big Oil in that mix, there is a factor that they might be keeping prices low to suppress public outrage… I know you’ll dismiss such reality, since you’re allergic to it… But tha’s what we’ve come to expect from you. Shouldn’t you be digging your bomb shelter anyway?
February 18th, 2007 at 10:26 pmLittle girl I suggest you start bitching to the right people unless you like to be nothing more than a propaganda cheerleader for TP.
Comment by Tracy — February 18, 2007 @ 10:17 pm
ah hahaha! yea, except YOU’re the one bitchin’ about not having murtha’s comments – not me… so, if YOU want them posted, post them…
February 18th, 2007 at 10:28 pmidjit…
#417
I didn’t mean to show you disrespect sir. I am sorry if you took it that way, but I was just pointing out something that I regularly see in this blog.
February 18th, 2007 at 10:28 pmTP should terminate the threads when they reach 500 posts, so this one has about 85 to go.
Comment by Jay Randal — February 18, 2007 @ 10:22 pm
Why? The tend to terminate themselves about that point anyway. I think 700 and change was the highest I ever saw one, but most seem to die off around the 100 mark.
February 18th, 2007 at 10:29 pmBriseadh na Faire: If you are a student of international law, you should understand that OBL was identified as a terrorist by the U.N. who had directed the Taliban to turn him over for terrorist acts. That the Taliban was not willing to do so made them complicit in terrorism. The U.N. gave its approval for operations in Afghanistan, as did NATO, and our Congress. What further legal approval do you feel was needed. I fail to see how OBL could be considered a criminal – suitable only for police to pursue… I fail to see an argument in your missive about President Bush being a terrorist or me being a terrorist because of a legal justification for invading Afghanistan.
February 18th, 2007 at 10:37 pmI am sorry if you took it that way, but I was just pointing out something that I regularly see in this blog.
Comment by Tracy — February 18, 2007 @ 10:28 pm
That’s not an apology – it’s blaming someone else for noticing your rampant hostility. Something we regularly see from you on this blog.
February 18th, 2007 at 10:39 pmJuan C. “Terrorism is fought with police work.” Are you really saying that all terrorist problems can be fought strictly with police only? That police will go worldwide to hunt terrorists who are armed with a wide array of weapons? That every country threatened by terrorists only needs to send its local police force? I’m sorry, that is just not a defensible statement. Secretary Reno and Undersecretary Gorelick proved that.
February 18th, 2007 at 10:42 pmBriseadh na Faire (’Tis no where near the Break of Dawn in this faire town): I admire your stance tremendously about wanting humanity to win, I want the same thing. The way I try to work to ensure humanity wins is to seek those who would deny you and me of your humanity – our human ness, our freedom. If there was a demonstrable way to have humanity win and not those who want to deny it to others because of their own 11th century notions of how everyone should conform, I’d be with you completely.
February 18th, 2007 at 10:48 pm#418
“It hasn’t been 6 months yet. I know counting is a problem for you, so let me help… ”
Oh now you want six months! YOU specifically said 3 to 4 months….from November 20, 2006.
#74
“Reality isn’t fair Tracy, but let’s say it will back to $3.00 within 20 cents in about 3 or 4 months.”
http://thinkprogress.org/2006/11/20/coincidence/
“Shouldn’t you be digging your bomb shelter anyway?”
Shouldn’t you be eating crow about now?
February 18th, 2007 at 10:55 pm#423
I wasn’t talking to you missy.
February 18th, 2007 at 10:56 pmBig Papa: I’ve made assumptions here that I’m rationally discussing issues with rational people who don’t resort to simple ad hominem attacks and sloganing. You don’t seem interested in that but simply sticking to a line. Nevertheless, here are more rebuttals to that portion of your response that was not personally insulting or making billboard material:
…this is no argument… You’re right Big Papa, I can’t argue with someone who doesn’t know me from the next guy, yet labels me a “right wing racist scumbag inbred… Wow, I’m amazed at your debating abilities…
…your entire rebuttal is nothing more than a bunch of right wing racist scumbag inbred Bushite talking points…
…adding nothing of value in the way of refuting my corollary…
Darren,
…you’re a hopelessly stupid Bush worshipper… No, I only worship one Being…
…a party-before-country al Crackkker fool… No, I don’t belong to a party…too limiting
…you talk about fake elections, pipelines running smoothly (for whose benefit?), and “killing as many as (you) canâ€â€¦ Fake elections…hmmm, you should look at the U.N.s website to understand how real the elections were in Iraq and Afghanistan. Hopefully the pipelines will run for all of our benefit – Iraq, U.S., Canada, France, Britain, etc., that’s the idea of pipelines bringing petroleum – get it quickly to people who need it… And, yes killing as many terrorist as are necessary…that is a reality
…you’re a do as I say not as I do hypocrite who wants to disarm the world (people of color) to ensure YOUR (al Crackkker) safety, when you’re unwilling to give up YOUR weapons… Ahh, there’s that “racist” thing again. I happen to be about 1/3 Native American, 1/3 German and something else in the Mediterranian region. And, no, I don’t want the world to give up its weapons. Societies that have done that historically have not fared well. What I do want is for them, in this case Iraqis, to use them against the terrorists.
…you believe that your al Crackkker life is more sacrosanct than “those†people, and that as an al Crackker you have the RIGHT to THEIR oil and natural resources… You’re making an awful lot of assertions about what I believe rather than discussing facts. Please explain your continued al Crackkker comments. We don’t have a “right” to anyone’s oil. If you follow that logic, we’d have invaded Saudi Arabia and Venezuela by now and Mexico while we’re at it. We, like other countries, have strategic interests. Like it or not, oil is a strategic interest.
…you’re a disgusting piece of dog excrement, who has no idea what being a human being is all about… No comment needed or deserved for this…
…and God is going to curse your house… Big Papa – “The Lord bless you and keep you. The Lord make His face to shine upon you, and give you peace…”
…your Karma demands it…
February 18th, 2007 at 11:07 pmJuan C…Are you really saying…That every country threatened by terrorists only needs to send its local police force?
Comment by Darren #424
So Darren,
…are YOU saying that every country experiencing “terrorism”…
…should be INVADED and occupied by some “savior” nation…
…in order to eradicate it?
…If that’s your contention…
…would you consider police shootings of unarmed citizens (where the victims suffer 41 or 50 gunshots to their persons as in the cases of two New Yorkers), or communities/people that are consistently brutalized and scrutinized by hostile police…
…terrorism?
…how about the systematic incarceration of people who make up 12% of the general population…
…to where they make up better than 50% of the incarcerated…
…could this be construed as a form of terrorism?
…how about where people march around in hoods, burn crosses, and drag people to their deaths behind pick up trucks or lynch and brutalize people because of their skin color, or religion…
terrorism?
…Is there a such thing as ECONOMIC terrorism?
…if you believe that street gangs that terrorize neighborhoods qualify as “terrorists…
…then should America be “invaded” and occupied, and if so by whom?
February 18th, 2007 at 11:10 pmbig papa: you suck. you’re a crass , rude ass.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:21 pmColonel Jack is doing a fantastic job. He governs with his heart and with a sense of history. We need more legislators like Jack Murtha. Keep up the good work.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:24 pmBig Papa,
If the U.N. approves the use of force because it believes a terrorist group is an international threat, then yes. The Tamil Tigers are an example of a group that threatens no one but Sri Lanka – internal problem.
Your analogy of local police forces is not sound. Police forces as a rule and in general do not prey on groups. Bad actors in them unfortunately sometimes do and in those cases need to be punished for the good of the entire society.
You’re straying well beyond what we’re discussing but, OK. Perhaps you realize that the group to which you refer in incarceration has another glaring statistic – 90% of crimes committed by African Americans are against other African Americans. So, its hard to argue that a white society is getting revenge on a black group of men for committing crimes. If the society is so racist, don’t you think they’d want those young men on the streets committing more crimes against other blacks?
I think you’d be hard-pressed to find in recent history a group of KKK walking around brutalizing people. I also think if you check statistics about white on black crime versus black on white crime, you’d find pretty much equal stats. The terribly tragic one’s like Mr Byrd are the rare exception, thankfully in our country.
I don’t know what context you mean with respect to Economic Terrorism.
As to street gangs, this is the same as above with domestic terrorism. Local problem…
February 18th, 2007 at 11:24 pmI would offer you an alternative to Col Murtha. His name is Col Sam Johnson, representative from Texas. I’d invite you to listen to this speech on the floor several days ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCXt6MD0qyA
February 18th, 2007 at 11:28 pmoh is Big Brother watching me? How Progressive.
Comment by Vince P — February 18, 2007 @ 8:37 pm
You missed the point bubba-as you always do.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:37 pmComment by Darren — February 18, 2007 @ 10:37 pm
Give cites for your “facts.”
As for you and Bush being Terrorists, I’ve already proven the point, using your own words:
And what does that say for our women and men in the Air Force dropping cluster bombs, and those launching missles from ships at sea, and those firing Artillery shells? Are they not terrorists as well?
From The Iraq Body Count:
In other words, the United States indiscriminately blew up innocent children, women, and men in Iraq.
By your definition, the United States is a Terrorist State, and you, being in the Air Force, are a Terrorist belonging to a Terrorist Organization. And Bush, being the leader of a Terrorist State, is a Terrorist.
One Terrorist blows up a truck in a market place, killing civilians. The other Terrorist drops cluster bombs in civilian neighborhoods. You seek to justify the one while condemning the other. In doing so, you have lost that which is essential for victory: understanding.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:38 pmWhat’s not defensible is your knowledge of international police work.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:43 pmBriseadh is one of those someone calls a Patriotic Terrorist. It loves the country so much it takes great pride when the country is attacked or undermined. Being a traitor is Progressiveâ„¢!
February 18th, 2007 at 11:45 pmHow many more weeks would you like for prices to hit over $3.00 like you predicted?
Comment by Tracy —
Well, here in California, it’s at $2.79 a gallon. Before April, if the trend stays the same. That’s 22 cents to go, for those who are bad at math.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:46 pmBreak of Dawn: Please review the international Laws of Armed Conflict. The difference between the USAF, the RAF, and any other armed force sanctioned by the U.N. and that follows the Laws of Armed conflict, and terrorists is that we don’t indiscrminantly target civilians. If we did intentionally we’d have plently of media coverage. Believe me, it would make bombing runs much easier if we didn’t have to do everything we could to avoid non-combatant casualties. Please tell me the last time you saw a validated report of us dropping bombs intentionally on civilians.
And, as to the Iraq Body Count report, I couldn’t begin to tell you where they got their numbers. I do know first hand that people who are injured when they get hit intentionally by the terrorists or unintentionally by our forces come to our surgeons for care. They seek us out.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:47 pmNo, you also wish to kill those whom you mark with preconceived notions of what they want.
Two thousand years ago someone spoke of loving your enemy to win them over. Mankind as a whole has yet to try that route. But there have been some notable successes with non-violence. And we revere those who have followed that path: Ghandi and Martin Luther King Jr., to name two.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:49 pmoh is Big Brother watching me? How Progressive.
Comment by Vince P — February 18, 2007 @ 8:37 pm
And this is the same Vince Pstain that threatened to call homeland security over a comment?
What a sissy.
Regressives are ignorant.
Comment by Vince Pstain
You prove that on a daily basis, regressive.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:51 pmBris: I’d love to see you try that tactic when you have a Jihadi against you.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:52 pmThat’s 22 cents to go, for those who are bad at math.
Comment by Barfly — February 18, 2007 @ 11:46 pm
It’s less than that, because Unbelievable said “within 0.20″. So, it’s 0.02 to go.
Having said that, I still disagree that there was oil price manipulation. But that’s a whole other argument.
Oh, and Tracy, your Dear (mis)Leader needs your support in the thread about the injured US troops, or in the one about Feith caught lying (by FauxNews no less!), or Tony Snow backtracking. Vince P and Darren are already covering this one.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:53 pmNow you’re going to defend them and thier forced child marrages.
Comment by Vince P
As you will defend the “christians” in Utah who do the same thing!
February 18th, 2007 at 11:54 pmActually, my knowledge of international police work is quite deep since prior to 9/11. Would you like to know about the RCMP and how they work, Interpol, the Metro Police Force, Royal Ulster Constabulary, the Ordnungspolizei or the Police Nationale?
I didn’t say they weren’t a help in terrorism, just that they weren’t the force to go after terrorists enmasse. And, FYI, each of those groups will tell you that terrorism is not a law enforcement problem first, it is a security threat requiring a larger reaction.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:55 pmComment by Vince P — February 18, 2007 @ 11:45 pm
I follow the path of a shaman. I take no pride when I see the United States attacked by its own government and undermined by the bottemless greed of War Profiteers.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:55 pmBeing a traitor is Progressiveâ„¢!
Comment by Vince P
Ronald Reagan was a progressive? That’s news to me.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:55 pm#419
Here is the idiot in all his glory.
http://hotair.com/archives/2007/02/12/video-murtha-rips-howard-says-iraqis-will-rout-aq-the-minute-were-gone/
February 19th, 2007 at 12:03 amYes, we revere those like MLK and Ghandhi who chose the path of passive resistance. We in the Christian and Jewish faiths also revere people like David, who God granted great victories. We also revere people like Abraham Lincoln, who despite his serious reluctance, sent forces into battle to preserve this Republic. All these were great men.
I have no preconcieved notions of what others want. I’ve read Aiman Zawahiri’s writings, OBL’s directives and manifestos of a number of homicide bombers. Notice I didn’t equate these with the Koran, which I’ve read. They mean us harm. Their non-negotiable position is Convert or Die.
While I, like you would like to see us all be able to demonstrate constantly God’s greatest commandment, the reality is those we are fighting do not have the same commandment.
February 19th, 2007 at 12:05 amDarren says…
I’m sorry you feel I get “talking points†from someone other than myself. I make up my own mind by studing facts (and fiction) and reasoning each area out.
1) Do you think our security is less now that we’re in Iraq? Keep in mind, those in Iraq, Syria, Aghanistan, Iran and the Phillipines affiliated with terrorist groups want to attack us regardless of Iraq.
TALKING POINT: “We’re fightin’ ‘em over there t’ keep from fightin’ em over here.”
Conventional wisdom: (Despite 9/11)…To this day America’s borders and ports remain wide open. Look around at any neighborhood school, mall or public gathering place and assess the “security” or lack thereof…
Darren says…
2) OBL was identified as a terrorist by the U.N. who had directed the Taliban to turn him over for terrorist acts. That the Taliban was not willing to do so made them complicit in terrorism.
REBUTTAL:
The Taliban asked the U.S. to provide proof (legal evidence) that OBL was responsible for 9/11…at that time there had been NO admission by OBL of culpability in the 9/11 attacks…
Conventional wisdom:
The Taliban regime was overthrown (Afghanistan invasion) because they renegged on the Chevron pipeline contract, awarding it to Venezuela instead of the U.S. In fact, the U.S. had (in April or May of 2001) given $43 MILLION dollars to the Taliban regime to “secure” this pipeline deal…
Darren says…
If there was a demonstrable way to have humanity win and not those who want to deny it to others because of their own 11th century notions of how everyone should conform
TALKING POINT(S): “They (terrorists) want to destroy our way of life. They want to establish a caliphate. They hate us for our freedom”…blah, blah, blah…
REBUTTAL:
The U.S. miltary and corporate special interests (especially oil and gas industry) are located in countries-on land- with significant religious importance. According to their Ouran they have a duty to drive infidels off their holy lands…
Conventional wisdom:
U.S. support for Israel’s occupation of Palestinian lands (expansion of settlements), and oppression of Palestinians (providing money and weapons etc. to Israelis) exacerbates the hatred of the U.S. by Islamic jihadists. Economic exploitation of American corporate interests and support for corrupt dictatorial regimes (Egypy, Jordan, saudi Arabia et al) also fuel such hatred…
Darren says…
What I do want is for them, in this case Iraqis, to use them against the terrorists.
REBUTTAL:
There were no “terrorists in Iraq before Bush’s invasion/occupation…
Darren says…
Hopefully the pipelines will run for all of our benefit – Iraq, U.S., Canada, France, Britain, etc., that’s the idea of pipelines bringing petroleum – get it quickly to people who need it…
REBUTTAL:
Even if the people(s) to whom it belongs don’t want you to have it?
Darren says…
And, yes killing as many terrorist as are necessary…that is a reality
“The Lord bless you and keep you. The Lord make His face to shine upon you, and give you peace…â€
REBUTTAL:
Typical right wing Bushite “Christian” hypocrite…
February 19th, 2007 at 12:11 amComment by Tracy — February 19, 2007 @ 12:03 am
What are you trying to say, that Iraqis cannot defend their own country against terrorism? That they need the US to stay?
What is your point here?
February 19th, 2007 at 12:12 am#437 & #442
“Well, here in California, it’s at $2.79 a gallon. Before April, if the trend stays the same. That’s 22 cents to go, for those who are bad at math.”
Who cares about California? The national average is $2.27 that’s 53 cents to go even with her $0.20 buffer. Here in Texas the average is $2.11.
http://www.texasgasprices.com/
“Having said that, I still disagree that there was oil price manipulation.”
That refreshing.
February 19th, 2007 at 12:16 am#450
You actually think that many of Iraqis will considering the many of their militas are helping al Qaeda inside Iraq? They won’t even unite in an effort to disban the insurgent death squads.
February 19th, 2007 at 12:20 amThey won’t even unite in an effort to disban the insurgent death squads.
Comment by Tracy
So, describe again how this will be fixed by an escalation? By your own words, you seem to say that the country should be partitioned – how is that winning?
February 19th, 2007 at 12:26 amI’m sorry Big Papa,
I have an early day tomorrow. I’ll be glad to hit you point for point again, but a few facts before I head off: Conventional Wisdom is not fact. Facts are, we have had multiple attempts since 9/11 on our shores. The U.S. provided the U.N. the proof of OBL’s involvement and since the Taliban was providing safe haven for him, they were not considered an element that the U.N. or we were going to share info with.
With overthrew the Taliban because of 9/11. I can’t help you with the Chevron – “evil oil company” thing. That would be like saying President Clinton attacked Serbia because of the sable fur industry…
I will address your other postulates which are not the same as facts tomorrow. Just one last thing – yes, there were terrorists in Iraq prior to our invasion – just ask Mrs Klinghoffer.
And, please try and contain your arguements to simple facts, not name calling or insults.
February 19th, 2007 at 12:26 amThey won’t even unite in an effort to disban the insurgent death squads.
Comment by Tracy — February 19, 2007 @ 12:20 am
Isn’t that, well, their problem?
The US has not been able to successfully bring stability to Iraqis. Giving them more of the same (occupation) can only create more animosity among ordinary Iraqis -assuming, that is, they don’t already hate the US for having destroyed their country.
And considering that before the invasion there was no AlQaeda to speak of in Iraq, how will the continued presence of US troops in Iraq root out AlQaeda?
February 19th, 2007 at 12:30 amI’m sorry, that is just not a defensible statement. Secretary Reno and Undersecretary Gorelick proved that.
Comment by Darren
Its called INTERPOL.
February 19th, 2007 at 12:33 amActually, my knowledge of international police work is quite deep since prior to 9/11.
Really? What agency are you with?
February 19th, 2007 at 12:37 am#453
“So, describe again how this will be fixed by an escalation?”
I don’t know if it will be fixed by adding more troops. In fact this insertion of more troops is about 2 years too late in my opinion. I totally blame Bush and Rumsfeld (I glad he is gone BTW) for not doing it sooner. More troops however is the only way to get these milita’s to disban. Unless you have a better idea. What can we do?…because no one is saying the things will get better if we pull out now.
February 19th, 2007 at 12:39 amThe transcription leaves out Hume’s complete final comment which can clearly be heard:
“HUME: A lot of it will be — dotty.â€
This man is Fox News’ #1 political reporter.
Comment by fishbrake
I hear “dotty” also. For those who want a refresher, to be sure of Witty Brit’s point of view:
definition of dotty
Let these blatherers bloviate. They are walking advertisements of the far right’s dwindling influence. More and more people can now understand the futility of finding truth born of slander, innuendo, lies and propaganda.
Better late than never.
February 19th, 2007 at 12:40 amComment by Darren #455
I try NOT to be an absolutist ( thus “Conventional wisdom”)…
…but I choose to believe what my eyes see…
…until convinced otherwise…
February 19th, 2007 at 12:42 amthey were not considered an element that the U.N. or we were going to share info with.
Comment by Darren — February 19, 2007 @ 12:26 am
Now -this is rubbish. If a criminal wanted in a country happens to be in another, the cilivised course of action is to present evidence of the criminal’s crimes and to file a request for extradition. You don’t just send the troops in.
As much as I despise them (and any other religious fundamentalist I might add), the Taliban were on solid ground when they offered to extradite Bin Laden to a third country, and when they rejected Bush’s ultimatum because they had seen no evidence of Bin Laden’s involvement in 9/11.
They were right in that respect but they were also foolish (with a total lack in pragmatism) not to kick Bin Laden out and/or hand him over directly to the US, or to a UN delegation. Maybe they thought god would interfere in their favor, who knows. Goes to show what country bumpkins they were not to be able to read the writing on the wall.
Moral of the story: Never, ever put a religious nincompoop in charge of a country -oh, wait… never mind…
February 19th, 2007 at 12:50 am#456
“Isn’t that, well, their problem?”
It’s our problem considering Iran’s influence on these death squads. You wouldn’t mind Iraq turning into a disfunctional country like Lebanon?…who is nothing more than a staging ground for Hezbollah and is controlled by Iran and Syria in order to launch terrorist attacks against Israel.
“assuming, that is, they don’t already hate the US for having destroyed their country. ”
The U.S. destroyed their country? Oh, yes the Iraqis were perfectly content with Saddam and his sons raping their country for 30+ years.
“And considering that before the invasion there was no AlQaeda to speak of in Iraq, how will the continued presence of US troops in Iraq root out AlQaeda?”
It will keep them in check. I don’t want Americans in Iraq but untill the government shows some back bone and willingness to get rid of the terrorists I don’t want it to become a terrorist training camp country like Afghanistan was. BTW please don’t say Iraq is already a terrorist training camp unless you can cite an instance where international terrorist attacks have been carried out since the invasion by al Qaeda terrorists trained inside Iraq.
February 19th, 2007 at 12:50 amUnless you have a better idea. What can we do?…because no one is saying the things will get better if we pull out now.
Comment by Tracy
Another day, another strawman argument. Things won’t get better if we stay, either.
The only thing possible is partitioning the country.
And even that is only a partial solution.
February 19th, 2007 at 12:56 amIt’s our problem considering Iran’s influence on these death squads.
Comment by Tracy — February 19, 2007 @ 12:50 am
Wha?
Iraq is a sovereign nation -at least in theory. Whatever Iran’s influence on whatever death squads is also their problem.
You wouldn’t mind Iraq turning into a disfunctional country like Lebanon?…who is nothing more than a staging ground for Hezbollah and is controlled by Iran and Syria in order to launch terrorist attacks against Israel.
So all the American soldiers in Iraq are being maimed an dkilled to protect Israel?
I thought Iraq was invaded to protect American citizens from another terrorist attack? Well, how things change in just four years…
The U.S. destroyed their country? Oh, yes the Iraqis were perfectly content with Saddam and his sons raping their country for 30+ years.
I didn’t say they were “content”. What they didn’t have was over 1.5 million displaced, lack of sanitary services, lack of running water, lack of electricity, etc. And didn’t have to fear their city to be sieged, or bombed into rubble by US airplanes.
Iraq was no bed of roses, for sure. But living conditions of ordinary Iraqis have not improved. Quite the contrary. Your comment is nonsense.
It will keep them in check.
This is wishful thinking. You cannot know what they will or won’t do.
They might as well decide Iraq is a waste of their time and money and launch another attack on the US -completely abandoning the Iraq “front”
BTW please don’t say Iraq is already a terrorist training camp unless
Double “wha?” -you are the one saying the US has to stay to keep AlQaeda, other terrorists in check.
So, which is it -are AlQaeda training in Iraq, or aren’t they?
February 19th, 2007 at 1:04 amIn truth, as I’ve read in this website, there are far too many who even reject us having gone into Afghanistan. Again, I think a lot of that is simply driven by a hatred of the current president.Darren
Another strawman?
Please post the comments that prove this assertion. Not just one, either. You said “many.” Or admit that you’re just making sh#t up.
February 19th, 2007 at 1:07 amComment by Darren — February 18, 2007 @ 11:47 pm
Do a google search. I did, and listed a dozen articles, but TP’s filter ate the post.
Use the terms “bombing civilians Iraq” without the quotes.
Here’s one site: http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BUN410A.html
Human Rights Watch has some reports as well.
Your faith in Media Coverage is misplaced. I know that first-hand. There are lots of stories that just don’t make it to mainstream media.
February 19th, 2007 at 2:21 amOh, really? You better learn some research skills before you make such a claim. Here’s the relevant Security Council Resolutions:
http://daccessdds.un.org/doc/UNDOC/GEN/N01/533/82/PDF/N0153382.pdf?OpenElement
was followed by:
http://daccessdds.un.org/doc/UNDOC/GEN/N01/557/43/PDF/N0155743.pdf?OpenElement
Neither Security Council Resolution unequivocally calls for War against Afghanistan.
Other Security Council Resolutions came only after the United States started killing Afghanis en masse.
Face it, Darren, Bush is a Terrorist, and you’re a Terrorist, by your own definition.
February 19th, 2007 at 2:41 amNow, to offer a bit of perspective here, let’s consider that Brit Hume(orless) is, in fact, Fox’s MAIN NEWS ANCHOR. To put it another way, he is their 6 o’clock guy, responsible for bringing the NEWS to America in the main news time slot. He then wears an overtly different hat on Sunday mornings for the network, when he becomes a viscous mouthpiece for nasty right wing agenda.
Does anyone remember Tom Brokaw, Peter Jennngs, or Sam Donaldson chiming in with geopolitical opinion for their respective networks every single week?
This is why Fox News is the most transparent, unapologetic embarrassment to real TV news journalism that we’ve ever witnessed. And old ladies in Oklahoma and evangelicals in Texas, and good ole’ boy lawmakers in Mississippi eat it up.
The Propoganda network has played, and continues to play, a HUGE role in this illegal act of aggression against a sovereign nation and war profiteering on an unimaginable scale. If these were the days of Rome, they’d all be thrown off the Tarpeian Rock for high crimes against the Republic. Rupert Murdoch first and foremost.
February 19th, 2007 at 4:44 amIt is objective reporting when it is obvious to everyone the Murtha is crazy. I respected Ronald Reagan, but, come on the last few years of his life in retirement, he was crazy. Murtha was probably a good guy before ABSCAM, craziness just afflicted him sooner. Show some tough love, e-mail the guy and let him know it’s time to retire.
February 19th, 2007 at 7:26 amWell, if Rep. Murtha is “senile” as faux-news states, then that means that Sen. McCain is even more senile.
Everyone knows that Fox News will smear anyone that stands up for the lives of our troops over Pres. Bush’s redical agenda of war forever and in every country.
The reason they’re going after Rep. Murtha is because he’s an honored veteran while the vast majority of Republicans were too afraid to sign up to serve their country when they were needed.
February 19th, 2007 at 8:42 amActually, my knowledge of international police work is quite deep since prior to 9/11. Would you like to know about the RCMP and how they work, Interpol, the Metro Police Force, Royal Ulster Constabulary, the Ordnungspolizei or the Police Nationale?
Comment by Darren — February 18, 2007 @ 11:55 pm
LIAR!
Since the Ordnungspolizei were the regular German police force in Nazi Germany you can’t have any knowledge of how they operate because they haven’t existed since 1945!!! In others words they don’t even exist today. They don’t operate!! Dead, gone, kaput!!! Idiot!!!
You are a lying sack of sh!t!!! Or, a Nazi war veteran!!!! I suspect the former!!!!
February 19th, 2007 at 8:46 amBrit Hume is a personality free idiot. Fox (supposed) New is the propoganda arm of the White House.
February 19th, 2007 at 8:50 amDemocrat Solidier: No one on Fox called Murtha “Senile” that is Thick Progress’ spin.
February 19th, 2007 at 8:53 amhttp://calsun.canoe.ca/News/Columnists/Corbella_Licia/2007/02/18/3642930-sun.html
Fully 12% of Muslim Canadians polled by Environics said the alleged terrorist plot — that included kidnapping and beheading the prime minister and blowing up Parliament and the CBC — was justified.
Predictably, the CBC managed to find a talking head — in this case York University sociology professor Haideh Moghissi — who dismissed this disturbing revelation.
“It’s really negligible that 12 percent feel that the attacks would be justified,” said Moghissi. “I don’t think it even warrants attention.”
But just how “negligible” is 12% of 700,000 people.
Well, if Moghissi knew arithmetic like she knows denial, she’d know if this poll is accurate, 84,000 Canadian Muslims think it’s justifiable to behead our democratically elected prime minister and blow up the very symbol and centre of our democracy!
February 19th, 2007 at 8:54 am>The reason they’re going after Rep. Murtha is because he’s an honored veteran while the vast majority of Republicans were too afraid to sign up to serve their country when they were needed.
More lies that I need to expose.
Congress (House and Senate)
No service – 74%
Total Military Service – Republicans 15%
Total Military Service – Democrats 10.3%
Vietnam Service- Rep: 2.6%
Vietnam Service – Dem: 1.9%
Senate Armed Services Committee
Republicans w service: 26%
Dems w service 13%
House
Rep: 20%
Dem: 13%
VETERANS’ AFFAIR COMMITTEE
SENATE
Rep: 29%
Dem: 7%
Ind: 7%
HOUSE
February 19th, 2007 at 9:02 amRep 24%
Dem 12%
Oh now you want six months! YOU specifically said 3 to 4 months….from November 20, 2006.
I said ‘about’, but okay –
1 December
2 January
3 February
4 March
Though I see you completely ignored my comments about Nancy Pelosi keeping an eye on Big Oil and therefore the consequences.
Shouldn’t you be eating crow about now?
Comment by Tracy — February 18, 2007 @ 10:55 pm
No. It’s still February. And gas is $2.20 here. That’s only 60 cents shy of the mark… Hardly a gaping difference.
I wasn’t talking to you missy.
Comment by Tracy — February 18, 2007 @ 10:56 pm
Yes you were, sonny. You spoke to me first in this thread.
February 19th, 2007 at 9:04 amLet’s try it anyway. Check back in a month and we’ll see where prices are. If they haven’t gone up, I’ll concede and apologize. If they have – you concede and apologize.
Comment by unbelievable — November 20, 2006 @ 5:19 pm
They were up a month later, but where exactly were you at that time? This was the actual deal.
Funny how you just pick and choose to avoid reality.
You owe me an apology…
February 19th, 2007 at 9:08 amHaving said that, I still disagree that there was oil price manipulation.
Comment by Gregor Samsa — February 18, 2007 @ 11:53 pm
After their record profits again, I am further convinced that had the Republicans kept control of Congress, gas would be a lot higher at the pump than it is now.
Funny how Tracy changes it to National Averages to try to make himself look better.
The bottom line is that the coincidence of prices dropping a week before the election is fishy. Especially when they made record profits under the Republican controlled Congress… But all we’d have to do to know for certain is for Congress to investigate Big Oil – under oath this time.
February 19th, 2007 at 9:14 amYou girls are aware that months ago Saudi Arabia stated that it intends on flooding the market with oil so that Iran doesnt beneift from high oil prices and fund thier on-going effort to dominate the middle east, right?
February 19th, 2007 at 9:15 am#475 – Comment by Vince P — February 19, 2007 @ 9:02 am
And how many of them actually served in the regualr service and how many sserved in the national guard or the reserves?
You’ve got to remember that Pres. Bush used his daddy’s connections to get a position in the Air National Guard and hide in the US rather than serve his country. Pres. Bush couldn’t even be bothered to successfully complete his term in the ANG, so that makes him a chicken hawk of a pernicious stripe.
Rep. Murtha has more oars in the water than the so-called “pro troops” Republicans have in total. When the Republicans would rather stand by the wrong decision and under-armour our troops, they become anti-troop in action.
February 19th, 2007 at 9:16 amComment by Vince P — February 19, 2007 @ 9:15 am
Paraphrasing doesn’t count as original thought…
February 19th, 2007 at 9:18 amOh, and Vince – Tracy isn’t a woman.
February 19th, 2007 at 9:21 amThe data isn’t presented in a way that is easy to answer your question.
http://stage.whoserved.com
To find out the information on each individual congressman you’ll have to select them name by name in Indiviual Profiles.
It’s in your court to refute the figures I listed which show Dems have less service than Reps, thereby invalidating your premise.
February 19th, 2007 at 9:24 amunorigible: you wouldn’t know originiality if something new hit you.
February 19th, 2007 at 9:25 amOh, and Vince – Tracy isn’t a woman.
Comment by unbelievable
I was speaking metaphorically
February 19th, 2007 at 9:25 am#483 – Vince, go back and read my post.
I said “The reason they’re going after Rep. Murtha is because he’s an honored veteran while the vast majority of Republicans were too afraid to sign up to serve their country when they were needed.”
Did I say that the Dems have more service than the Reps? No. Stop putting words in my mouth.
My post was accurate, and factual. The premise is validly valid. It’s my grammar that is invalid. ;-)
February 19th, 2007 at 9:33 amunorigible: you wouldn’t know originiality if something new hit you.
Comment by Vince P — February 19, 2007 @ 9:25 am
Obviously, I would, since I pointed it out in the first place.
But you keep on making up your silly pretend words. I’m sure it’s all you can do on your own. LOL.
I was speaking metaphorically
Comment by Vince P — February 19, 2007 @ 9:25 am
No you weren’t.
It’s why you won’t tell me your IQ.
February 19th, 2007 at 9:35 amI have no idea what my IQ is. Never been tested. Unlike when you were young, they didn’t give us such tests in the modern era.
February 19th, 2007 at 9:50 amBriseadh na Faire,
Lets take a walk through the documents together. I’ll point you first to this http://www.afghan-network.net/Culture/resolution1267.html . It lays out the U.N.’s directive to the Taliban to give up OBL. Most notably, these three paragraphs:
1. Insists that the Afghan faction known as the Taliban, which also calls itself the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan, comply promptly with its previous resolutions and in particular cease the provision of sanctuary and training for international terrorists and their organizations, take appropriate effective measures to ensure that the territory under its control is not used for terrorist installations and camps, or for the preparation or organization of terrorist acts against other States or their citizens, and cooperate with efforts to bring indicted terrorists to justice;
2. Demands that the Taliban turn over Usama bin Laden without further delay to appropriate authorities in a country where he has been indicted, or to appropriate authorities in a country where he will be returned to such a country, or to appropriate authorities in a country where he will be arrested and effectively brought to justice;
3. Decides that on 14 November 1999 all States shall impose the measures set out in paragraph 4 below, unless the Council has previously decided, on the basis of a report of the Secretary-General, that the Taliban has fully complied with the obligation set out in paragraph 2 above ;
U.N. Resolution 1373 reaffirmed the right of individual nations to act in their own self-defense. I think OBL sending terrorists to attack our country in such a manner definitely constitutes an attack meriting response military by the U.S.
The resolution reaffirmed that Al Q’aeda is a terrorist group. But, it also stated that the Taliban was as well. So, to the assertion that the Taliban was willing to give OBL to another country, well the only country that may have received that offer was Pakistan. They didn’t want OBL, given their own ultra-orthodox Muslim problems in Waziristan. Then, on Oct 7, 2001, the Taliban offered to try OBL in an Islamic court as U.S. and coalition forces begin attacks. They offered on Oct 14, 2001 to turn him over to a third country as an apparent attempt to get the U.S. to cease operations.
Interestingly, OBL himself said in an interview in, I think 2003, that he was responsible for the attacks.
So, the U.N. declared Afghanistan under the Taliban a terrorist state, the Taliban terrorists and OBL and Al Q’aeda terrorists. The right of self-defense of any nation threatened by another was invoked by the U.S. and tacitly supported by the U.N.
As to your ridiculous assertion that “Bush is a terrorist and you’re a terrorist,” well, please stop using these types of MoveOn.org “talking points.” I’m trying hard to make the “moral equivalence” leap that you’ve apparently made. I can’t get there. The Afghanis (and Saudis) we killed in Afghanistan were part of the Taliban and AQ, not civilians, with very few exceptions. We didn’t conduct an indiscriminate attack on buildings, killing innocent people, we didn’t subjugate half of our population, we didn’t destroy elements of another religion, we haven’t tortured our enemies (and if you think what we’ve done in GTMO is torture, you need to attend the various survival schools conducted by the U.S. military and then make a comparison).
I’m curious to know if you consider former Pres Clinton a terrorist for launching operations into Serbia in 1999, or Pres Truman into Korea or Pres Lincoln into the South of the United States.
February 19th, 2007 at 9:58 amAs Tony Snow would say “you just don’t understand” let me explain it to you.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:02 amI have no idea what my IQ is. Never been tested. Unlike when you were young, they didn’t give us such tests in the modern era.
Comment by Vince P — February 19, 2007 @ 9:50 am
I teach in the public education system. They still test people. I also took the test on my own in college and afterward (it’s not sometihng that happens ‘to you’).
It took you that long to come up with that response… Explains why you weren’t considered for testing… They didn’t want to hurt your feelings.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:03 amComment by Vince P — February 19, 2007 @ 9:24 am
That’s nice, coming from one who posts bogus assertions of fact and fails to back them up.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:03 amAs to your ridiculous assertion that “Bush is a terrorist and you’re a terrorist,†well, please stop using these types of MoveOn.org “talking points.â€
Comment by Darren
Lets see if this a MoveOn.org talking point… Nope. It´s pretty much the opinion around the world.
Well, you dont get to be the less terrorist state in the world without 730+ military bases across the world, Darren. Now, lets see Fallujah, Abu Ghraib, Gitmo, Qana…yeah, Darren, no civilians there. Well, not intentionally, I understand. That should be less painful for families.
Oh, such ridiculous assertions, right, Darren?
February 19th, 2007 at 10:17 am#475 Vince P.
And, if you’d like to see how Republicans and Democrats compare in supporting the troops, it’s broken down for you right here:
http://www.veteransforamerica.org/index.cfm/page/weblog/subpage/display_blog/bid/290869E3-123F-747A-1B7674B53046B987
Aside from cutting veterans’ health benefits and closing facilities and cutting funds for head trauma research and all those other things the GOP seems to think are unimportant to the troops AFTER they’ve left the battlefield, I don’t recall hearing too much from that side of the aisle about the shortage of body armor and armor for Humvees that Rumsfeld refused to do anything about. I guess it’s unpatriotic to try to keep the troops alive after they’ve been dumped into the middle of an illegal war.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:18 am#479 Vince P.
You girls are aware that months ago Saudi Arabia stated that it intends on flooding the market with oil so that Iran doesnt beneift from high oil prices and fund thier on-going effort to dominate the middle east, right?
No. Tell us all about it, Princess.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:20 amLets not forget that the 9/11 attacks was the first time the NATO Charter’s “Attack on one is an attack on all” was invoked , and NATO forces are leading the actions in Afghanistan today..
February 19th, 2007 at 10:48 amUnwashible
Uh, I was taking a shower so I could go to work.
Stick to your day job, if you have one
February 19th, 2007 at 10:50 amEven the Washington Post is saying…
The Washington Post is home to Charles Krauthammer, George Will, Robert Novak, David Broder, James Hoagland, Bob Woodward, Anne Applebaum…They endorsed Joe Lieberman in his last campaign for Senate, of course, they’re going to badmouth peace in Iraq!
February 19th, 2007 at 10:57 amBrit’s bio says he graduated from UVa in 1965 where he received a draft deferment from Vietnam. Does anyone know why he wasn’t drafted after graduation? I already know why he didn’t enlist.
February 19th, 2007 at 11:00 amDarren and Vince P. You’re making alot of sense, but if you sentiments aren’t “Bush lied”; “Blood for Oil”; “Republicans want dirty air and water”; “It’s patriotic to surrender”; “Bush stole the elections”; “the only terrorists in the world are republican”; or “Gore is the only one who can save the planet”; I’m afraid no one is listening. Keep up the good fight, though. I appreciate you.
February 19th, 2007 at 11:16 amComment by Vince P — February 19, 2007 @ 9:02 am
Congress (House and Senate)
No service – 74%
Total Military Service – Republicans 15%
Total Military Service – Democrats 10.3%
Vietnam Service- Rep: 2.6%
Vietnam Service – Dem: 1.9%
Senate Armed Services Committee
Republicans w service: 26%
Dems w service 13%
House
Rep: 20%
Dem: 13%
VETERANS’ AFFAIR COMMITTEE
SENATE
Rep: 29%
Dem: 7%
Ind: 7%
HOUSE
Rep 24%
Dem 12%
1) Please post a link to this info.
February 19th, 2007 at 11:24 am2) I wonder what the numbers would be if corrected for women born too early to serve.
#500 – “I appreciate you. (Darren and Vince P” Comment by paul — February 19, 2007 @ 11:16 am
Well, Paul OF COURSE you appreciate them!
They’re repeating all the right-wing talking points.
Don’t forget, if you support the Constitution, then you’re not supporting Pres. Bush! Be a good Republican and vote FOR TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH and AGIANST ARMING OUR TROOPS!
February 19th, 2007 at 11:31 amComment by Darren — February 19, 2007 @ 9:58 am
That resolution called for sanctions, not war. Thus far, justification for a war of aggression has not been approved by the U.N.
Comment by Darren — February 19, 2007 @ 9:58 am
First, Resolution 1373 did not authorize a War of Aggression. Reaffirming the right of self-defense is a far cry from Authorizing an invasion. So, still no U.N. Approval for War in Afghanistan. Assuming OBL was behind the attacks of 9/11, that makes him a criminal and is insufficient to justify War.
You don’t have to take just my word for it. Here is a well-researched article on the subject: http://www.eurolegal.org/terrorism/terror108.htm
And what was Bush’s reply?
And here’s an interesting backstory: http://www.counterpunch.org/cockburn11012004.html
According to that report, the Taliban were ready to deliver Bin Laden to Bush as soon as Bush took office in 2000. Yet Bush repeatedly refused to act.
You mean in this video? http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/osamatape.html
Since taking the California Bar last July, I’ve spent a great deal of time reseraching the events of 9/11. Some of the “official explanations” are physical impossibilities. If the government were to put on a case consisting of it’s official explanation, and Osama were to put forth in defense what I’ve read, there’s no way I could vote to convict. It is far more likely that 9/11 was masterminded by individuals within our own government than by a bunch of box-cutter wielding Saudis.
Please give a citation for this assertion of fact.
Comment by Darren — February 19, 2007 @ 9:58 am
I was only applying your definition of a terrorist to the facts.
“anyone who indiscrimnantly (sic) blows up innocent children, women and men is a terrorist.â€
See posts 378, 434 and 466 for an explanation of how you fit your own definition of “Terrorist.” Do the google search. See how your claims of not killing civilians are false. But be warned. If you do choose to open your eyes, you won’t like what you see when you look past your reflection in the mirror. There is a price to be paid for understanding, and I don’t know that you’re ready to pay that price.
February 19th, 2007 at 11:37 amLiberal=traitor. I hope you homos look god in burqas.
February 19th, 2007 at 11:42 amThanks paul.
Someone has to tell the truth on here lest someone gets deceived by the pit of vipers in here.
February 19th, 2007 at 12:13 pmOh, that poor, poor man. How dare anyone say he doesn’t understand things as well as he should. Those kinds of comments should be reserved for the President of the United States and not slanderously applied to Democratic….er, other politicians.
Incredible.
February 19th, 2007 at 12:15 pm#464
“Iraq is a sovereign nation -at least in theory.”
Soverign to make governmental decisions. They don’t have the ability to provide security for their own people yet.
“Whatever Iran’s influence on whatever death squads is also their problem.”
No that’s your OPINION and not the one shared by anyone in the Iraqi government, the Pentagon, the U.S. Congress (at least the sane ones) or the Executive Branch of the U.S. I sure am glad you aren’t in charge of helping the Iraqi’s with their security problem. You would let them twist in the wind.
“So all the American soldiers in Iraq are being maimed an dkilled to protect Israel?”
I thought for a second just to ask you to come back later with a rational question that actually relates to my question, but I see I am going to have to annuncitate. My factual comment/question about Lebanon being nothing more than an extension of Iran’s govenrment was one for you to consider and was I was asking if you want Iraq to become another puppet state like Lebanon, not for you to ask an obtuse question that isn’t related.
“I thought Iraq was invaded to protect American citizens from another terrorist attack?”
The attempt to bring democracy to Iraq is intended to be the catalyst that prevents the spread of Islamic fundementalism which is causing the terrorist groups to form and carry out their attacks around the world. It’s going to a long time.
“What they didn’t have was over 1.5 million displaced, lack of sanitary services, lack of running water, lack of electricity, etc.”
Oh and you forgot…ZERO hope of change and being free from Saddam’s tyranny. It wasn’t going to end with Saddam because his son’s were going to continue on for another 30 years.
“This is wishful thinking. You cannot know what they will or won’t do.”
I sure know that they won’t pack up and leave Iraq like that idiot Murtha thinks they will. He’s the only one to even to have suggested such a thing.
“They might as well decide Iraq is a waste of their time and money and launch another attack on the US -completely abandoning the Iraq “front—
Are you kidding? What is using up all of their resources is their operations inside Iraq. If we leave before the security situation is able to be handled by the Iraqis, Iraq will turn into another Afghanistan.
“So, which is it -are AlQaeda training in Iraq, or aren’t they?
If we leave they will be! Come on man!
February 19th, 2007 at 12:30 pm#476
“No. It’s still February. And gas is $2.20 here. That’s only 60 cents shy of the mark… Hardly a gaping difference.”
Alright you have a month to gain $0.60.
“Yes you were, sonny. You spoke to me first in this thread.”
The apology wasn’t for you.
February 19th, 2007 at 12:45 pm#477
“You owe me an apology…”
I never agreed to your “deal”.
I said:
#73
“If prices go up and down, which they will in a month’s time, how much of an increase will you consider to be sufficient to prove your case?”
the you said:
#74
“Reality isn’t fair Tracy, but let’s say it will back to $3.00 within 20 cents in about 3 or 4 months.”
That WAS the deal and you are the one who wrote it.
February 19th, 2007 at 12:59 pm#478
“Funny how Tracy changes it to National Averages to try to make himself look better.”
Funny how you and others change it and look at California’s and your area’s outrageous prices other that the national average. Now that’s funny.
February 19th, 2007 at 1:01 pmIt wasn’t going to end with Saddam because his son’s were going to continue on for another 30 years.
Comment by Tracy — February 19, 2007 @ 12:30 pm
And this statement takes nothing away from the fact that the US invasion has worsened living conditions in Iraq because of the damage it has caused to the physical infrastructure -hospitals, electrical network, potable water, etc.
As much of a thug as Hussein was, this “liberation” is about to create a humanitarian catastrophe in Iraq.
I sure know that they won’t pack up and leave Iraq like that idiot Murtha thinks they will.
You do realise that foreign fighters make up a minority of the insurgency in Iraq, don’t you? Which means most of the military operations by the US within Iraq are carried out against Iraqi nationals.
And that AlQaeda -the people who carried out the 9/11 attacks, and one the reasons for the invasion- have already set up camp in Afghanistan & Pakistan.
“So, which is it -are AlQaeda training in Iraq, or aren’t they?
If we leave they will be! Come on man!
Speaking of OPINIONS -this is one.
Actually, it’s more like speculation. Unless you have a crystal ball, there is no way you can know what AlQaeda will or will not do.
February 19th, 2007 at 1:40 pmThe Religion of Peace strikes again. Thailand must be a very evil foreign policy to have provoked such a sustained effort by Muslims to kill them
Thai Jihad Update. 49 bombings, shootings, and arson attacks overnight, and Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont is still talking about winning “hearts and minds.” “Thailand warns of more “terrorist” attacks,” by Boonradom Chitradon for AFP:
BANGKOK (AFP) – Islamic separatists could stage more “terrorist” attacks, Thailand has warned, after nine people were killed in overnight strikes as many Thais began celebrating the Lunar New Year.
February 19th, 2007 at 2:21 pmThailand’s army chief of staff said the insurgents, who have battled the government for three years in Muslim-majority provinces of southern Thailand, could try to stage new attacks during upcoming Buddhist holidays.
“The violence may increase, and it will be the same kind of terrorist tactics,” General Montri Sangkasap told reporters Monday after an emergency security meeting in Bangkok.
Comment by Vince P — February 19, 2007 @ 2:21 pm
I’ll give you this much. You’re persistent. Willfully ignorant, but persistent.
February 19th, 2007 at 2:35 pmI would have killed myself too if I was Brit’s son. I would like to meet Brit Hume in person, and kick his little droopy-faced, punk-bitch ass to hell where he blongs!
February 19th, 2007 at 3:14 pmClan: maybe you should try diplomacy first.
February 19th, 2007 at 3:39 pmComment by dixie blood #471
…way to get that a*s dixie…
February 19th, 2007 at 3:41 pmYou girls are aware that months ago Saudi Arabia stated that it intends on flooding the market with oil so that Iran doesnt beneift from high oil prices…
Comment by Vince P #479
…are you aware that Venezuela, Iran, (various leftist South American gov’ts), Russia, China, African oil producing nations…
…are in the process of forming a counter-cartel to OPEC…
…to keep the price inflated?
…and there’s also a (worldwide) movement towards countries (even traditional allies like Japan) to divest themselves of the Bushite dollar…
February 19th, 2007 at 3:49 pmLet them go to the Euro.. that’s a house of cards ready to fall at the first crisis.
The production of Iran and Venzuella has been dropping for years. Iran because it doesnt maintan its infrastruction (iow: they are not planning for teh future… is it because they dont see one?) I dont know why V’s is falling.
February 19th, 2007 at 3:52 pmI’ll give you this much. You’re persistent. Willfully ignorant, but persistent.
If you can’t attack the message, attack the messenger. Is that from ‘Art of War’?
February 19th, 2007 at 4:04 pmComment by paul — February 19, 2007 @ 4:04 pm
If the shoe fits, Paul. Scroll back up through the comments.
February 19th, 2007 at 4:21 pmI debunked his claim in 512 yesterday, yet he comes back with the same thing.
Comment by Vince P #518
.Yo Vinny,
..is that FEAR I smell?
…you right wingers really SHOULD change cologne…
February 19th, 2007 at 4:26 pmComment by dixie blood #471
…way to get that a*s dixie…
Comment by big papa — February 19, 2007 @ 3:41 pm
Thank you!
February 19th, 2007 at 5:03 pmbig papa: you suck. you’re a crass , rude ass.
Comment by Vince P #430
Another satisfied customer…
Thanks Vince…
…you’re sooo…what’s th’ word I’m looking for…uhh…
…ARTICULATE!
February 19th, 2007 at 5:05 pmUnwashible
Uh, I was taking a shower so I could go to work.
Why, because you didn’t bathe yesterday from posting the entire day?
I’m sure they appreciate that at the Burger King where you flip burgers.
Stick to your day job, if you have one
Comment by Vince P — February 19, 2007 @ 10:50 am
I already told you my day job. Like five minutes early. It’s an intellectual job, genius.
If anyone ever compares your intellect to a stick, take it as a compliment. It’s a big one.
February 19th, 2007 at 5:37 pmAlright you have a month to gain $0.60.
The conditions, which you are still ignoring have changed… Seriously, you can’t be that obtuse can you?
The apology wasn’t for you.
Comment by Tracy — February 19, 2007 @ 12:45 pm
I didn’t say it was Einstein. I’m smarter than you think you are. I was just telling you that it wasn’t a valid apology…
I never agreed to your “dealâ€.
Then why are you here? If you didn’t agree then it was a dead issue back then…
That WAS the deal and you are the one who wrote it.
Comment by Tracy — February 19, 2007 @ 12:59 pm
No, the deal was a month. There was further discussion, and according to you – you never agreed.
Make up your mind – you can’t have it both ways.
February 19th, 2007 at 5:43 pmWell I do not know about prices across the US, but gasoline went up $.10 a gallon OVERNIGHT!!!!
Try as I might I cannot find anything in the news that would cause this. Any ideas?
February 19th, 2007 at 5:48 pmFunny how you and others change it and look at California’s and your area’s outrageous prices other that the national average. Now that’s funny.
Comment by Tracy — February 19, 2007 @ 1:01 pm
Georgia routinely has one of the lowest National Averages. So, don’t try to spin that.
You never specified Tracy. Can’t whine enough to change the rules after the fact…
Especially as gas prices have been going up lately… And if Hugo Chavez has his way, they will continue to do so.
February 19th, 2007 at 5:49 pm…are you aware that Venezuela, Iran, (various leftist South American gov’ts), Russia, China, African oil producing nations…
…are in the process of forming a counter-cartel to OPEC…
…to keep the price inflated?
Comment by big papa — February 19, 2007 @ 3:49 pm
I heard about that. But I’m sure the cons here just cover their ears and cry lalalalalalalalalalalalalalalala….
February 19th, 2007 at 5:53 pmWell I do not know about prices across the US, but gasoline went up $.10 a gallon OVERNIGHT!!!!
I’m sure that’ll make Tracy disappear from the dialog… Especially considering how he is a relative neighbor of yours… :)
Try as I might I cannot find anything in the news that would cause this. Any ideas?
Comment by Jules — February 19, 2007 @ 5:48 pm
I think Chavez’s talk about slowing oil production has the greedy gluttons jacking up prices in advance. Gotta protect their billions in profits…
February 19th, 2007 at 5:58 pm#511
“And this statement takes nothing away from the fact that the US invasion has worsened living conditions in Iraq because of the damage it has caused to the physical infrastructure -hospitals, electrical network, potable water, etc.”
And your point is? We decimated Germany during WW2 far beyond anything that Iraq has been subjected to.
“As much of a thug as Hussein was, this “liberation†is about to create a humanitarian catastrophe in Iraq.”
Please provide some evidence of this “catastrophe”. The only legit source would be the UN not some human right watch group.
“You do realise that foreign fighters make up a minority of the insurgency in Iraq, don’t you? Which means most of the military operations by the US within Iraq are carried out against Iraqi nationals.”
Yes and they cause alot of problems with their terrorist actions as do the “Iraqi nationals” with THEIR terrorist actions. You seem to be justifying their actions which include mass murder of other Iraqis with their death squads. They aren’t “freedom fighters”. Al Sadar is not a “freedom fighter”. He is a thug no better than bin Laden and in fact has the same goal…to make Iraq and Islamic fundementalist state.
“And that AlQaeda -the people who carried out the 9/11 attacks, and one the reasons for the invasion- have already set up camp in Afghanistan & Pakistan.”
The mastermind of 9/11 is in jail. Do you actually think that once we capture or kill bin Laden and al Zawhari that our work is done with regards to 9/11? I pray that you aren’t that naive.
“Actually, it’s more like speculation. Unless you have a crystal ball, there is no way you can know what AlQaeda will or will not do.”
Well considering NO ONE agrees with Murtha’s speculation or yours of al Qaeda leaving Iraq once the U.S. leaves I would say it’s a very good prediction. BTW give one good reason what they would leave.
February 19th, 2007 at 6:57 pm#525
“The conditions, which you are still ignoring have changed”
According to your conditions that you DID change you have till the end of March for gas to be at $3.00 or higher.
“I was just telling you that it wasn’t a valid apology”
But your opinion isn’t valid regarding my apology to someone else.
“I’m smarter than you think you are.”
Yeah, OK, sure.
“Then why are you here? If you didn’t agree then it was a dead issue back then…”
Why did you say that I owe your an apology if YOU changed the time conditions? Are these not your words?….
“Reality isn’t fair Tracy, but let’s say it will back to $3.00 within 20 cents in about 3 or 4 months.”
“No, the deal was a month. There was further discussion, and according to you – you never agreed.”
Yeah sure. LOL!
I said: #79
“If global political and economic conditions allow it. I.e. there isn’t some major catastrophe natural or otherwise.”
http://thinkprogress.org/2006/11/20/coincidence
…having said that, I agreed to your 3 to 4 month time span.
February 19th, 2007 at 7:10 pm#527
Who said we were using Georgia’s or California’s average price? It was pretty obvious, to me at least, that we would have to be using the “national average” for gas prices. Why would you use anything but the national average as far as our debate is concerned?
“You never specified Tracy.”
You are kidding right? My step son who is 15 years old does the same thing. If I don’t specify exactly then he throws out the technicality in order to try and get out of something he did wrong. That’s sad.
“And if Hugo Chavez has his way, they will continue to do so.”
Yeah he is one serious totalitarian dictator.
February 19th, 2007 at 7:28 pmAccording to your conditions that you DID change you have till the end of March for gas to be at $3.00 or higher.
Damn you’re a bad liar.
I posted it. It was a month. Go ahead and weasel out of it. You cowards always do.
But your opinion isn’t valid regarding my apology to someone else.
It wasn’t an opinion. It was a fact. You didn’t say you were sorry for what you did – but that Lee misinterpreted what you said. That’s not an apology. Even you should be capable of understanding that basic concept.
Yeah, OK, sure.
About time you admitted it
:D
Why did you say that I owe your an apology if YOU changed the time conditions? Are these not your words?….
I didn’t. I posted the FIRST comment I made to you. You cherry picked a part of our discussion, and then started this conversation…
Yeah sure. LOL!
Reading comprehension that much of problem?
…having said that, I agreed to your 3 to 4 month time span.
Comment by Tracy — February 19, 2007 @ 7:10 pm
Is that your final answer? Cause your last response said you didn’t agree to it.
My deal was a month… You wanna ignore that to reneg on the reality that I was right, well, how typically cowardly of you… LOL
February 19th, 2007 at 7:35 pmRepresentative Johnson’s speech is inspirational. Joh Murta would be lucky to be deemed worthy to lick his jockstrap.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCXt6MD0qyA
February 19th, 2007 at 8:05 pmUnemployable wrote:
I already told you my day job. Like five minutes early. It’s an intellectual job, genius.
You must think I read all your hysterics… I dont.
February 19th, 2007 at 8:07 pm535: My God you are bitter and hostile. It’s not that bad really.
February 19th, 2007 at 8:09 pmMurtha is either deranged or the earth’s stupidest scumbag……
He was a crook 30 years ago, he’s a crook today, and a complete moron who contradicts himself from sentence to sentence and doesn’t say anything that makes close to sense…
A blithering idiot-likely to end up in jail
February 19th, 2007 at 8:24 pmMore Religion of Peace activity, this time in my hometown.
Police: Chicago Man Bludgeoned Relatives to Death Because He Felt ‘Disrespected’.
CHICAGO — An enraged Iranian immigrant used a 3-pound hammer to beat his wife, sister-in-law and mother-in-law to death and then stabbed them repeatedly because he felt “disrespected,†police said Monday.
After the attack, Daryoush Ebrahimi, 55, also struck himself several times in the head with the same maul hammer he used to bludgeon his relatives, said Chicago Police Cmdr. Thomas Byrne.
“It was a very difficult scene, and that would be indicative of that type of anger,†Byrne said of the two apartments where the bodies were found on the city’s far North Side.
Police also found cell phone video messages and a letter that Ebrahimi left at one of the apartments, Byrne said. The FBI is helping translate the messages and letter, which are in Farsi.
“Right now I wouldn’t say it’s a suicide note … but it’s more about, again, how he feels disrespected, and that’s pretty much a reocurring theme in the note,†Byrne said
February 19th, 2007 at 8:32 pm534, Vince, you convinced me. Actually, it was Rep. Johnson that convinced me. He hit all the Republican talking points, while wearing a blue tie!!!
So, Vince. Put a price tag on supporting this war.
How many dead Americans will be too much?
How many dead Iraqis will be enough?
How many billions, trillions of dollars will be too much?
If supporting this war meant that 99% of all Americans will have to live in poverty while 1% live like kings, would that be ok?
If supporting this war means we will have to live in a police state, with the government monitoring our every move, will that be ok?
If supporting this war means the only job kids can get out of college is in the military, will that be ok?
If supporting this war means reinstating the draft, will that be ok?
If supporting this war means bankrupting the country, so that China and other foreign investors own most of the land in this country, would that be ok?
If supporting this war plunges the country into a depression, reducing the standard of living to that of a third-world country, would that be ok?
I’m just trying to find the limits of your support for Bush’s War, Vince.
If supporting this war means you must go to Iraq and stand outside the green zone with a signboard stating that you are an American, would you do it? If not, why not. Our soldiers are doing the equivalent of that every day. Do you have the courage to trade places with one of them?
February 19th, 2007 at 9:16 pmYou’re not an American, right?
February 19th, 2007 at 9:21 pmDo you people even listen to yourselves? You are absolutely baffling. You lament everyone that doesn’t agree with you as ‘not having a solid grip on reality’, and then you go and suggest that people believed that the Vietnamese communists would take over the world if we left. No one, other than absolute morons, believed that. What was believed was that if we left, millions of people-other than Americans-would die, slaughtered because we weren’t there to protect them, and the survivors would be crushed under a frightening totalitarian regime. You know, for an ideology that seems to support the idea of the strong protecting the weak, liberals don’t seem very consistent with that when it comes to foreign policy. If the economically successful should shoulder the burden of protecting the downtrodden from the elements and their own failures, then why shouldn’t the world’s superpower do the international equivalent of protecting those unable from dictators and murderers?
If we left Iraq, there would be no immediate consequences for Americans, though I doubt it would become a friendly, non-terrorist sponsoring regime. But there WOULD be an immediate result for millions of Iraqis. The military power that was there to protect them would be gone. The sands would be soaked with the blood of ethnic cleansings. Nothing I say is going to make you question your own rigid political dogma, but-
Don’t you people understand? America is NOT the world. Everything doesn’t need to be seen through the selfish light of ‘what benefit will it have to America?’ Guess what-if everyone thought like that, the social contract that holds all nations together would collapse. Put aside your hatred for a President’s other causes and think about this.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:46 pmOnce: You really want to be digusted. go to the thread about how the military is “decimating” US small towns. See the sort of evil these people will defend.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:56 pm…oh, oh… what is this place?…
February 19th, 2007 at 11:28 pmUnemployable wrote:
I already told you my day job. Like five minutes early. It’s an intellectual job, genius.
You must think I read all your hysterics… I dont.
Comment by Vince P #535 — February 19, 2007 @ 8:07 pm
535: My God you are bitter and hostile. It’s not that bad really.
Comment by Vince P #536 — February 19, 2007 @ 8:09 pm
NOTE: To all Liberal Progressive posters on TP…
If you are confused by the cuts and pastes attributed to Vince P above…
…Vince P is holding serious debates…
…with himself…
…please do not feed this troll…
…as it only worsens his…
… “condition”…
February 19th, 2007 at 11:58 pm…there is a bright side though…
…I think he’s winning…
February 20th, 2007 at 12:01 amVince,
since you chose not to respond, go to hell.
February 20th, 2007 at 1:50 amWell , thank you for showing your true character. hater.
February 20th, 2007 at 2:02 amAnd your point is? We decimated Germany during WW2 far beyond anything that Iraq has been subjected to.
Comment by Tracy — February 19, 2007 @ 6:57 pm
I made the point that the US had destroyed Iraq’s infrastructure, you challenged it, trying to change the subject, I reiterated, and now you ask what my point is. You are not even challenging it anymore.
Good job.
Please provide some evidence of this “catastropheâ€. The only legit source would be the UN not some human right watch group.
Note I said “this ‘liberation’ is about to create a humanitarian catastrophe”. Here is your link:
Incessant violence across much of Iraq’s central and southern regions is forcing thousands of people to leave their homes every month, presenting the international community with a looming humanitarian crisis even larger than the upheaval aid agencies had planned for during the 2003 war.
The Iraq Situation
“Some human right watch group”? Wow, Tracy, you really are a right-winger, aren’t you? What is the problem? Is Human Rights Watch too “anti-American” and “liberal” for you?
You seem to be justifying their actions which include mass murder of other Iraqis with their death squads.
You miss my point entirely. You were saying that you didn’t think AlQaeda would simply pack up and leave if the US withdraws from Iraq, and so the US needs to stay.
I pointed out most insurgents are Iraqi nationals -implying your argument is bogus because AlQaeda is not a significant force driving the insurgency in Iraq.
Funny enough, you again agreed with me.
Do you actually think that once we capture or kill bin Laden and al Zawhari that our work is done with regards to 9/11? I pray that you aren’t that naive.
I will reiterate: The organisation responsible for carrying out the attacks on 9/11 is regrouping in Afghanistan and Pakistan. BTW, putting one member in jail will make no difference, as long as the organisation remains alive.
You said the US needs to stay in Iraq because it keeps AlQaeda “in check”. I pointed out they are already reorganising elsewhere -implying your argument is bogus because they have not been kept “in check” whatsoever.
Well considering NO ONE agrees with Murtha’s speculation or yours of al Qaeda leaving Iraq once the U.S. leaves I would say it’s a very good prediction. BTW give one good reason what they would leave.
I didn’t say AlQaeda would leave. Scroll back and re-read my posts. I said foreign influence in Iraq is the Iraqis’ problem. I also said foreign fighters are not a significant force behind the insurgency.
As far as AlQaeda leaving Iraq, unlike you, I don’t have a crystal ball. What I do know is that they have regrouped somewhere else already -which is something you insist on ignoring every time you ask “tell me why AlQaeda would leave Iraq?”.
As far as yours being a “good prediction” -you are very apt at asking for links and sources. Care to reference this one speculation of yours? (a US government intelligence source will do.)
February 20th, 2007 at 3:33 amI also wonder why so many Democrats subject themselves to the likes of Hannity, O’Reilly,etc. Perhaps they should just not appear on Fux at all. What a message that would send.Who would Fux spew their venom at?
February 20th, 2007 at 8:11 amIt’s about time someone had some stones to criticize this old fool murtha. His street cred has run it’s course. He’s a cut-an-run moron who thinks his time served allows him to denigrate our troops who are putting their lives on the line every day. What a friggin disgrace!!
February 20th, 2007 at 10:15 amBrit Hume is right. Murtha is the same guy who suggested we should defend the Iraqis from Okinawa, for pete’s sake. He’s the same guy that equated the struggle in Iraq to Iwo Jima, where we lost more guys in 37 days than we have in over 3 years in Iraq.
Many of the people attacking Brit here are the same sorts (I’d wager) who say that just because a person doesn’t have military experience, doesn’t mean they don’t have a right to an opinon, should realize that just because someone DOES have military experience, doesn’t mean they have a comprehensive knowledge of the military history or strategy.
I’d imagine Murtha knows he DOESN’T possess and understanding of these things, but knows the left doesn’t really care if what he says makes sense, as long as on its face it agrees with their stance on Iraq.
February 20th, 2007 at 10:37 am[...] according to Arianna Huffington yesterday on the Huffington Post. Last Sunday, Brit Hume tried to claim that John Murtha is senile, saying: “This guy is long past the day when he had anything but the foggiest awareness of what [...]
February 20th, 2007 at 1:36 pm#552
“I made the point that the US had destroyed Iraq’s infrastructure, you challenged it….”
I didn’t challenge your statement that the invasion has made living conditions in Iraq worse since the invasion. I asked what your point was in bringing it up. Living conditions in Germany were far worse after WW2 than that currently are in Iraq. Conditions would be far better if the Iraqi government would stand up to the insurgency and not object to taking on their own political foes like al Sadar.
“Note I said “this ‘liberation’ is about to create a humanitarian catastropheâ€. ”
The “liberation” didn’t and isn’t about to cause this humanitarian crisis….the terrorists, i.e. the Iraqi nationals that are part of the “death squads”, that you like to call them, are responsible for the “looming” crisis. You notice that the quote you provided didn’t say northern regions of Iraq, because low and behold that’s where the terrorists like al Sadar live.
“Is Human Rights Watch too “anti-American†and “liberal†for you?”
No, they are too political.
“I pointed out most insurgents are Iraqi nationals -implying your argument is bogus because AlQaeda is not a significant force driving the insurgency in Iraq.”
Al Qaeda is today an ideal or movement considering it’s leaders are either in jail or in hiding. I said the al Sadar has the same goal for Iraq that bin Laden does…make Iraq an Islamic fundementalist state. The insurgency launches terrorist attacks against Sunnis and Shiites back and forth for various reasons, least of which in many instances, is the goal of al Qaeda to make radical Islam, by FORCE, the dominant religion and political force in the world.
http://www.cfr.org/publication.html?id=8117
http://www.cfr.org/publication/12007/iraqs_postsaddam_insurgency.html
“The organisation responsible for carrying out the attacks on 9/11 is regrouping in Afghanistan and Pakistan. BTW, putting one member in jail will make no difference, as long as the organisation remains alive.”
I will reiterate. al Qaeda is a movement/ideal not a specific group of terrorists. Other than some form of democracy, i.e. sharing power politically, economicall, and militarily, in Iraq what is going to stifle al Qaeda and it’s stated goal in Iraq?
“I pointed out they are already reorganising elsewhere -implying your argument is bogus because they have not been kept “in check†whatsoever.”
Whatsoever? Just because they are attempting to get reorganized in an area where they once completely dominated just a few years ago doesn’t mean they still had free reign in Afghanistan ever since that Taliban was ousted. They have been kept in check evidenced by the fact that no expert believes that al Qaeda organization is today even close to what it was prior to the U.S. kicking the crap out of them in 2001.
“I don’t have a crystal ball. What I do know is that they have regrouped somewhere else already”
Just because that NY Times says that camps are operating with 10 to 20 men doesn’t mean al Qaeda has returned to their glory days inside Afghanistan.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/19/world/asia/19intel.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin
“What I do know is that they have regrouped somewhere else already -which is something you insist on ignoring every time you ask “tell me why AlQaeda would leave Iraq?â€.”
You read the NY Times too much, unfortunately. Please tell me why al Qaeda would leave Iraq if the U.S. leaves? Would it not be a safe assumption that if someone like al Sadar topples that current Iraqi government in a coup that they wouldn’t think twice about letting al Qaeda set up terroist camps in Iraq? They have the same goal.
“Care to reference this one speculation of yours? (a US government intelligence source will do.)”
Lt. General David Petraeus. I suggest you read US Army Field Manual FM 3-24 on counterinsurgency.
February 20th, 2007 at 7:34 pmBrit Hume IS SENILE, and HE DOESN’T HAVE THE FOGGIEST AWARENESS OF WHAT’S GOING ON IN THE WORLD…Now that’s MORE like it!!!!! Anyone who works for Fox and spouts psychobabble gobbedygook like Brit Hume should be locked up in a looney bin and the key thrown away!!!!! Isn’t it amazing what a handful of valium can do for that bombastic imbecile Hume before he goes on the air and starts spouting demagogic nonsense about Rep. John Murtha? Too bad Hume didn’t take an overdose so he could spout the same nonsense to the maggots and vermin who would be turning their snouts up at his poisonous carcase!!!!!
February 20th, 2007 at 7:43 pmBrit Hume has no soul…
…like Yashmak, eddie bennett, Vince P and all of the other…
…right wing inbred, mindless Bush worshippin scum on this thread…
…may the suffering of the people of Iraq reach your homes and families…
…and increase by a thousand fold…
…may you beg to die, but your poverty keep you alive long enough…
…to lose everything you care about…
…I would’ve typed “love” (instead of “care about”)….
…but I believe that your soul-lessness precludes your ability to experience it…
February 20th, 2007 at 10:56 pm[...] party and he does bother to include. Listen to the sock puppet screech: Hume also unleashed a deeply angry and purely personal attack on Murtha, all but calling him senile. But he then went further and attacked the entire Democratic [...]
February 21st, 2007 at 12:49 amI didn’t challenge your statement that the invasion has made living conditions in Iraq worse since the invasion. I asked what your point was in bringing it up.
Comment by Tracy — February 20, 2007 @ 7:34 pm
God damn it, Tracy! The reason why I brought it up is because I said the Iraqis probably already hate the US for having destroyed their country, to which you replied:
The U.S. destroyed their country? Oh, yes the Iraqis were perfectly content with Saddam and his sons raping their country for 30+ years.
Comment by Tracy — February 19, 2007 @ 12:50 am
You challenged what I said. The worsening of the living conditions in Iraq is directly linked to the destruction of the physical infrastructure. Don’t you remember what you wrote?
The “liberation†didn’t and isn’t about to cause this humanitarian crisis….the terrorists, i.e. the Iraqi nationals that are part of the “death squadsâ€, [...]
Right. And the invasion and occupation had nothing to do with it. The bombing and destruction of their electrical network had nothing to do with it. The destruction of the potable water delivery system and water treatment plants had nothing to do with it either. The absolute failure to rebuild Iraq had nothing to do with it either, I suppose.
Please, get a clue.
You notice that the quote you provided didn’t say northern regions of Iraq, because low and behold that’s where the terrorists like al Sadar live.
Tracy, you ask for links and then don’t even bother reading. Go back to the UNHCR web site, and check out the bloody maps. There are displaced people in the Kurdish area as well.
And if you are talking about Muqtada AlSadr, depending on what news you read, he either lives in Sadr City in Baghdad, or in Al Najaf. I have never read a news piece that puts him in the Kurdish area. Most news talk about Sadr City as his headquarters.
Al Qaeda is today an ideal or movement considering it’s leaders are either in jail or in hiding. I said the al Sadar has the same goal for Iraq that bin Laden does…make Iraq an Islamic fundementalist state.
::sigh::
The reason why I mentioned most insurgents are Iraqi nationals in the first place, was because you said:
You actually think that many of Iraqis will considering the many of their militas are helping al Qaeda inside Iraq?
Comment by Tracy — February 19, 2007 @ 12:20 am
You also said something to the effect of AlQaeda training terrorists in Iraq, about AlQaeda not leaving Iraq if the US withdraws, and the US needing to stay in Iraq to keep AlQaeda “in check”. But now you backpedal and say AlQaeda is merely “an ideal”. So, pray tell, is AlQaeda an actual threat or just “an ideal” because “its leaders are in jaiil or hiding”?
At any rate, I am happy you agree AlQaeda is not a driving force behind the insurgency, and that the insurgency is mostly made up of Iraqi nationals.
Other than some form of democracy, i.e. sharing power politically, economicall, and militarily, in Iraq what is going to stifle al Qaeda and it’s stated goal in Iraq?
Now it’s my turn: Please provide links that show AlQaeda has stated the goal of making a fundamentalist Islamic nation out of Iraq.
The links you provided very clearly state that the strongest force in insurgencies in nationalism. Establishment of Islamic rule is a force -mainly of foreigners, that we already agreed are not a significant force in Iraq; something the article you provide also points out.
They have been kept in check evidenced by the fact that no expert believes that al Qaeda organization is today even close to what it was prior to the U.S. kicking the crap out of them in 2001.
They are reorganising, Tracy, and not in Iraq. Their allies the Taliban are launching ever bolder attacks on NATO forces in Afghanistan. This means the “fight them over there” meme is bogus. They are neither “in check”, nor in Iraq.
Please tell me why al Qaeda would leave Iraq if the U.S. leaves?
Are you going through an early onset of Alzheimer’s? How many times do I have to say this? I don’t know what they will or will not do. All I know is that AlQaeda is not a significant force behind the insurgency. The question you ask sounds bogus to me for that reason -they are not the driving factor, and unlikely to grow in influence after the departure of the US because the main force behind the insurgency is nationalism.
Would it not be a safe assumption that if someone like al Sadar topples that current Iraqi government in a coup that they wouldn’t think twice about letting al Qaeda set up terroist camps in Iraq?
No, it isn’t a safe assumption at all.
AlSadr is a Shiite Muslim. AlQaeda are Sunni fundamentalists, their brand of Islam is the only valid one in their eyes. AlSadr is more likely to side with Iran -who happen to be enemies of AlQaeda, for the same reason.
February 21st, 2007 at 3:40 am#537
“I posted it. It was a month. Go ahead and weasel out of it. You cowards always do.”
You changed it. It was 3 to 4 months. You are the one trying to weasel out of it. You are the coward.
“It wasn’t an opinion. It was a fact. You didn’t say you were sorry for what you did – but that Lee misinterpreted what you said”
The fact the he misinterpreted what I said and took my comment as not be courteous to him made his demand for an apology mute after I explain that it wasn’t my intention to be condesending.
“About time you admitted it”
I didn’t admit anything and you know it. Don’t be obtuse, because you aren’t smarter as evidenced by your limited architectural knowledge.
“I didn’t. I posted the FIRST comment I made to you. You cherry picked a part of our discussion, and then started this conversation…”
Then why did YOU respond with your 3 to 4 month proposition?
“Reading comprehension that much of problem?”
It seems to be for you because you like disregard your own statements..
“Is that your final answer? Cause your last response said you didn’t agree to it.”
I didn’t agree to your one month time frame. You brought up the 3 to 4 month one….not me.
“You wanna ignore that to reneg on the reality that I was right, well, how typically cowardly of you”
fI you want to deny what you stated then….oh well. That’s cowardly.
February 21st, 2007 at 11:10 am[...] chief anchor, Brit Hume, dismissively described Rep. John Murtha as [...]
February 21st, 2007 at 2:14 pm#560
“The reason why I brought it up is because I said the Iraqis probably already hate the US for having destroyed their country, to which you replied:”
Their country was already destroyed by Saddam! In case you missed it after him fighting a brutal war with Iran, getting their ass kicked in the 1st Gulf War, and then 10 years of sanctions the country was already in the dump. You made it sound like every thing was pristine and the quality of life in Iraq was great prior to the 2003 invasion. It wasn’t not even close to decent standards.
“The worsening of the living conditions in Iraq is directly linked to the destruction of the physical infrastructure. Don’t you remember what you wrote?”
The “looming” humanitarian crisis quote you posted spoke directly to the violence forcing Iraqis to be displaced, not the living conditions brought on by the inital destruction of the infrastructure or as you conveniently FAILED to mention the constant sabotage by the terrorists of vital components to the infrastructure that are being rebuilt. Again the living conditions today are not as much of a result of destruction caused by U.S. bombs in 2003, but the terrorists constantly trying to cripple the country.
“The absolute failure to rebuild Iraq had nothing to do with it either, I suppose.”
It has to do with the terrorists and insugents preventing it from happening.
“There are displaced people in the Kurdish area as well.”
See corrected typo below…
“You notice that the quote you provided didn’t say northern regions of Iraq, because low and behold that’s where the terrorists like al Sadar DO NOT live.
“Most news talk about Sadr City as his headquarters.”
And the most recent news talks about him fleeing to Iran. What a suprise.
“You also said something to the effect of AlQaeda training terrorists in Iraq,”
No I didn’t. I asked you not to throw that theory out there after I explained it. I was trying to preempt you.
“But now you backpedal and say AlQaeda is merely “an idealâ€. ”
I don’t say that al Qaeda is a now more of a movement than a organization lightly. The fact that it’s now more loosely organized and wide spread makes it even more dangerous.
“So, pray tell, is AlQaeda an actual threat or just “an ideal†because “its leaders are in jaiil or hidingâ€?”
You don’t get it do you? al Qaeda as a movement/ideal is an even bigger threat beause there isn’t a central core of people we can track anymore. It’s evolved and changed. It’s like the world wide jihad call to arms. Do you understand now? How do we squash this ideal/movement? Democracy(in all it’s meanings)….unless you have a better idea.
“At any rate, I am happy you agree AlQaeda is not a driving force behind the insurgency, and that the insurgency is mostly made up of Iraqi nationals.”
I said it’s not the MAJOR driving force. There isn’t a single driving force behind the insurgents, there are many, who BTW are NOT all united in their goals. It’s nothing more than a power grab and all of them are not fighting for the good of the Iraqi people.
“Please provide links that show AlQaeda has stated the goal of making a fundamentalist Islamic nation out of Iraq.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/11/AR2005101101353.html
“Zawahiri called that stage the setting up of an “emirate,” in as much of Sunni-dominated Iraq as possible, to be followed by the longer-term goal of a “caliphate,” reuniting the historical Islamic empire centered in modern-day Egypt, Lebanon and Israel.”
“They are neither “in checkâ€, nor in Iraq.”
Well if you think that reorganizing constitutes not “being in check” then you believe what you want. What other creditable new source other that the NY Times has come to the same conclusion?
“The question you ask sounds bogus to me for that reason -they are not the driving factor, and unlikely to grow in influence after the departure of the US because the main force behind the insurgency is nationalism.”
Just because most of the insurgents embrace this idea of “nationalism” doesn’t mean that al Qaeda will be forced out or make the decision to leave. With their complex and effective propoganda machine at work inside Iraq, this nationalism idea just might embrace the ideals of al Qaeda. It happened in Afghanistan. You might remember that many of the Afghan nationals were very much and in many cases still are in support of al Qaeda and their goal, i.e. Islamic fundementalist rule of the world.
“AlQaeda are Sunni fundamentalists”
“AlSadr is a Shiite Muslim. AlQaeda are Sunni fundamentalists, their brand of Islam is the only valid one in their eyes.”
I don’t think that the fact that al Sadar is a Shiite and al Qaeda are Sunnis really makes a difference. They both have the same goal of making Iraq an Islamic fundementalist state.
February 21st, 2007 at 2:24 pmAnd the most recent news talks about him fleeing to Iran. What a suprise.
Comment by Tracy — February 21, 2007 @ 2:24 pm
1) This is speculation as only his inner circle knows where he is, 2) most of his men are Iraqi nationals, 3) that Al Sadr has family, and other ties in Iran is not a secret.
And the biggest factor behind the insurgency is still nationalism.
Well if you think that reorganizing constitutes not “being in check†then you believe what you want. What other creditable new source other that the NY Times has come to the same conclusion?
You have got to be kidding. You should stay atop of the news.
The NYT was quoting US military and intelligence analysts. That is not the NYT’s conclusion. Also, the resurgence of the Taliban has been reported over the years; here is a news piece from last year: http://www.guardian.co.uk/afghanistan/story/0,,1951222,00.html
Maybe you ar enot aware, but Pakistan’s peace treaty with pro-Taliban militias was also widely reported. It was mentioned as a boost to the Taliban and its supporters in Pakistan:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0906/dailyUpdate.html
Shhesshh, Tracy. I don’t know if you were trying to crack a joke, but it was not funny….
I don’t think that the fact that al Sadar is a Shiite and al Qaeda are Sunnis really makes a difference. They both have the same goal of making Iraq an Islamic fundementalist state.
It makes a huge difference. For them to make an Islamic fundamentalist state out of Iraq, they would have to agree on which version of Islam first.
Are you a religious man, Tracy? If you are Southern Baptist, you do not recognize the authority of -say- the Catholic Pope, or an Egyptian Coptic Patriarch. The opposite is also true. It makes a very big difference, even though they’re all Christian denominations. The same thing happens in Islam.
February 21st, 2007 at 11:45 pmTest
February 21st, 2007 at 11:56 pmAnd the most recent news talks about him fleeing to Iran. What a suprise.
Comment by Tracy — February 21, 2007 @ 2:24 pm
1) This is speculation as only his inner circle knows where he is, 2) his militia is made up by men who are Iraqi nationals, 3) that Al Sadr has family, other ties in Iran is not a secret.
And the biggest factor behind the insurgency is still nationalism.
February 22nd, 2007 at 12:14 amI don’t think that the fact that al Sadar is a Shiite and al Qaeda are Sunnis really makes a difference. They both have the same goal of making Iraq an Islamic fundementalist state.
Comment by Tracy — February 21, 2007 @ 2:24 pm
It makes a huge difference. For them to make an Islamic fundamentalist state out of Iraq, they would have to agree on which version of Islam first.
Are you a religious man, Tracy? If you are Southern Baptist, you do not recognize the authority of -say- the Catholic Pope, or an Egyptian Coptic Patriarch. The opposite is also true. It makes a very big difference, even though they’re all Christian denominations. The same thing happens in Islam.
February 22nd, 2007 at 12:19 amWhat other creditable new source other that the NY Times has come to the same conclusion?
Comment by Tracy — February 21, 2007 @ 2:24 pm
The Times was quoting US military and intelligence analysts. That is not the Times’ conclusion. Also, the resurgence of the Taliban has been reported over the years; here is a news piece from last year.
Maybe you are not aware, but Pakistan’s peace treaty with pro-Taliban militias was also widely reported. It was deemed a boost to the Taliban and its supporters in Pakistan
February 22nd, 2007 at 12:26 amGreg: You’re wrong.. the various groups have different ideas on in what order certain things should happen.
Some groups have no problem doing temporary alliances to fight united against a common enemy (us). while other groups insist on cleaning house first (the part you say), and then the enemy.
So reality is more complex than simple “Sunnah will NEVER work shia. … Secular will NEVER work with Jihadis”… Some will, some wont.
February 22nd, 2007 at 5:26 am#567
“It makes a huge difference. For them to make an Islamic fundamentalist state out of Iraq, they would have to agree on which version of Islam first.”
Even if they couldn’t agree on the version of Islam that wouldn’t stop either of them from allowing terrorist training camps to operate inside Iraq in order to carry out attacks against the West. They might fight each other because they disagree on the version of Islam they want the Iraqis to follow, but they both would still be engaged in their Jihad which requires training terrorists.
February 22nd, 2007 at 7:42 pm#560
“Now it’s my turn: Please provide links that show AlQaeda has stated the goal of making a fundamentalist Islamic nation out of Iraq.”
Did you read my link in #563? Is this when you first became aware of al Qaeda’s goals in Iraq? And you tell me to say atop the news. Whatever.
February 22nd, 2007 at 7:48 pmTracy: Dont you love it when they call you ignorant when it’s them who are in abject delusion and willful blindness on thsi topic?
February 22nd, 2007 at 8:00 pm#574
Gregor probably missed it because the outlets he gets his news from probably wouldn’t report on this. It would be counter productive to their political agenda.
February 22nd, 2007 at 11:39 pmThe middle east is vastly run by a form of dictators, They are oil rich, I mean mega rich, their people are dirt poor. How do they explain that to their people. They push the myth that we are the reason they are oppressed and kept dirt poor. When all it is is that their leaders are flat out stealing it. All this talk about fear…. Fear is a good thing, fear keeps people alive. I have not heard much about nuclear weapons here. If for one minute you think that the people that flew the planeful of humans into the building full of humans would not have used a nuclear wepon if they had it…. That kind of thinking scares me.
March 1st, 2007 at 2:22 pmWe have to get rid of the dictators that are warping the minds of their people… or the real war will come… Boom. And the people in ths chat that said we have nothing to fear… you can look back and be so proud…
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