Iraq war decimates small towns.
By on Feb 19th, 2007 at 8:57 pm
Iraq war decimates small towns.
“Across the nation, small towns are quietly bearing a disproportionate burden of war. Nearly half of the more than 3,100 U.S. military casualties in Iraq have come from towns…where fewer than 25,000 people live, according to an analysis by The Associated Press. One in five hailed from hometowns of less than 5,000. … The AP analysis found that nearly three quarters of those killed in Iraq came from towns where the per capita income was below the national average.”
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Riiiight, it’s the military’s fault these towns have been declining for decades. Deluded stupid people.
February 19th, 2007 at 9:06 pmVince P will never die of stab wounds, as he possesses an almost superhuman ability to miss the point.
February 19th, 2007 at 9:10 pmpredators don’t strike at the center of a pack, they hunt on the fringes, cut off a vulnerable group, perhaps straglers or those percieved as less fit, then attack
February 19th, 2007 at 9:11 pmsome lyrics that I believe are apropos, especially to (the) war as a whole:
“In the fields the bodies burning
As the war machine keeps turning
Death and hatred to mankind
Poisoning their brainwashed minds… Oh Lord yeah!
Politicians hide themselves away
They only started the war
Why should they go out to fight?
They leave that role to the poor, yeah
Time will tell on their power minds
Making war just for fun
Treating people just like pawns in chess
Wait ’till their Judgment day comes, yeah!”
For the curious, thats Black Sabbath, and the title is War Pigs … which I think is a good label for Bush and his hawkish ilk … for they are all Schweine.
February 19th, 2007 at 9:15 pmLess peasants for the near future uprising…….
February 19th, 2007 at 9:15 pmOf all that’s going on in this country, you guys scrap up a story like this? it’s really pathetic.
If you guys cared about this country why dont you look into what the common link is between these three violent incidents that have happned in the past week
- Chicago – Iranian beats 3 women to death because he felt dishonored
- Nashville – Muslim cab driver tries to kill two of his passengers after they left his cab by running them over
- Utah – Bosnia goes on shooting spree
And honorable mention
New York City – It is revealed last weekend that the Empire State Building shooting that occured in the late 1990s was done by a Muslim who was upset about Israel
What are these people doing to our cities?
February 19th, 2007 at 9:19 pmvince….. he possesses an almost superhuman ability to miss the point.
Comment by TripMaster Monkey
That he does.
February 19th, 2007 at 9:21 pmHe also avoids the veteran issues threads, I noticed.
cowardice?
What are these people doing to our cities?
Comment by Vince P
what are you doing not in Iraq fighting for your codpiece in chief, Bush?
February 19th, 2007 at 9:27 pmsign up already!!
Riiiight, it’s the military’s fault these towns have been declining for decades. Deluded stupid people.
Comment by Vince P
And that then makes war all the more wasteful doesn’t it?
1 million bucks to blow up a 4 sided clay brick structure?
On what plane of reality do you exist Vince Pee?
February 19th, 2007 at 9:30 pmVP at #6 would rather find news stories about muslims committing crimes and condemn all two billion of them worldwide.
February 19th, 2007 at 9:31 pmI’d hate to think that a person like him might cause others around the world to think he represents all Americans. McVeigh? Rudolph? Dahmer? Gacy? Do they represent Americans?
Wayne the regressive attacks freedom of speech.
February 19th, 2007 at 9:32 pmWhat are these people doing to our cities?
Comment by Vince P
Since those are the only crimes being committed in the US this week, you are right to be pissing your bed, Vince.
February 19th, 2007 at 9:32 pm…nearly three quarters of those killed in Iraq came from towns where the per capita income was below the national average.
That right there, kids, is why there will never be a draft in this country again. We already have a draft…an economic draft.
If there was an actual draft in this country, the elite would have to wast time and energy getting their kids out of it. This way, their kids are excluded by default.
Welcome to the new feudalism, kids.
February 19th, 2007 at 9:33 pmLet me put it to you another way Vince.
Here, in America, you have four people, living in a house, that love their country, they need help, much less than a million dollars.
But you think that blowing up a shack with 4 people in it, that supposed;y hate you, is worth a million dollars.
Do you yet see the shallowness of your grave?
February 19th, 2007 at 9:33 pmInstead of making four Americans Vince, you elected to spend a million dollars to create an enemy.
February 19th, 2007 at 9:35 pmVince
Look, I can do the same thing!
Man Arrested for First Degree Murder
Man Charged with Criminally Negligent Homicide
Man Accused of Shooting, Killing Wife While She Slept
What are men doing in our country?!
February 19th, 2007 at 9:37 pmMarie: “America” isn’t an ideology. Islam is. Islam is a system of belief as expressed in their holy books. Thus its entirely appropiate to criticize it. The simple fact is, Muslims have total sanction to engage in Jihad against non-believers. This isn’t in dispute. The fact that most do not do it does not make Islam any less of a danger.
Drop your political correctness and realize what the real threat to you is.
February 19th, 2007 at 9:38 pmDrop your political correctness and realize what the real threat to you is.Comment by Vince P
you stupid noodle headed nationalist, you gottdamn better good and well look to the universal future you pathetic keyboard ass, because GD it reality is gonna get stuck right up your stupid TV ass if you don’t get out of small brain mode.
YOU HEAR ME?
February 19th, 2007 at 9:42 pmThe distinction is this:
- The Chicago murders…. Honor killings are rampant throughout the Muslim world. As the woman is basically chattle to her family , there is no sense of the worth of her as a human being.
- The Nashville rundown – A Muslim has total free reign to engage in violence against a Non-Muslim in the Land of War (Dar es Harb) .. that is land that isn’t under Islamic Law.
- The Utah shootings – The call for Jihad has been made by emirs around the world. It is the religious obligation of Muslims to respond to the call to jiihad and defend Islam
There are systemic reasons for all of the above.. the Koran and the example of Mohemmed.
February 19th, 2007 at 9:44 pmVince Pee is scaring me. I’m dusting off the the duct tape and plastic sheeting…. sleeping under the bed tonight. …Islamofascists everywhere ….oh my
February 19th, 2007 at 9:46 pmGee, I wonder if McVeigh, Rudolph, Dahmer, Gacy and others were Republicans — would that fit the ideology label?
February 19th, 2007 at 9:46 pm#20 – Vince,
What are the reasons for the actions of those in AshenShard’s examples in #16?
February 19th, 2007 at 9:47 pmRachel as a woman you really disappoint me. If you were living under the rules of Allah you wouldn’t be allowed to touch a computer.. To leave your house without escort. To talk to a man. To provoke your own rape by showing your arms or neck.
You defend this? Shove that keyboard up your own ass cuz you’re screwing yourself.
February 19th, 2007 at 9:47 pmNo Vince, when you reich-wing propogandists use the word “America” it sure as hell is an ideology.
February 19th, 2007 at 9:48 pm#21 Sociopaths come in all shapes and sizes. One thing they all share is that they are Republican.
February 19th, 2007 at 9:48 pmVince P
Then what are we doing in Iraq?
It is impossible to fight an ideology.
Do you suggest we kill all muslims in the world?
You are a sick person.
February 19th, 2007 at 9:49 pmVince p sez:
Kinda like Christianity.
Kinda like Christianity.
Kinda like Christianity.
Kinda like Christianity.
Drop your narrow-minded bigotry and realize what the real threat to all of us is.
February 19th, 2007 at 9:49 pmRachel Chickennardi = PISS SOAKED TROLL USING MY NAME.
February 19th, 2007 at 9:49 pmRachel teen Hoodlum = PISS SOAKED TROLL USING MY NAME.
PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO IT
America is better than your nihilism and hate
February 19th, 2007 at 9:50 pmVince P is to Judaism, what David Duke is to Christianity. A hero in his own mind, and an embarrassment to everyone else…
February 19th, 2007 at 9:51 pmVince P, you should go to the David Duke, or the Islamofascist websites. You can all trade barbs about who’s radicals are more radical – while the rest of us recognize that you are no different than Osama nor any of the rest of the religious radicals…
Vince P, is Osama’s middle name…
February 19th, 2007 at 9:53 pmOur Ideology is better than the Muslim Ideology. Christians are always right. We know the right people to kill and god tells us who to kill. Muslims just want to kill Jews.
God blessed this country and wants us to kill all those who are against the USA. We are the good side. All other sides are the evil side.
February 19th, 2007 at 9:54 pmAnother thing that’s common in the Muslim world is the “circumcism” of women. .. Some guy will go down there and start cutting things out for the trash (including those parts that make the activity worth having), then they take some string and sew up the area and allow a thick scar tissue to form almost a seal, with just enough room to allow a trickle of pee to come out.
This seal must remain until the marrage night, where at the party where all the fmaily is there, the guy takes his wife to a room and does his deed and then shows the bloody evidence that he pierced through the scar and that his wife was indeed a virgin.
BUt yeah… hate this country you fing hyprocrites.
February 19th, 2007 at 9:54 pm#29 No, America IS nihilism and hate, thanks to the likes of you.
February 19th, 2007 at 9:54 pmAmerica is better than your nihilism and hate
Comment by Vince P — February 19, 2007 @ 9:50 pm
Says the ‘queen’ of hate. You’re right, america is better than you, which is why there’s no room for hate mongers like yourself to decide policies for the country. You’d murder a practicer of Islam, while claiming the high ground. Ironic considering that many of those Christians and Jews you defend would murder you. Just like they did Matthew Shepard. Tell me Vince, did you grow up as a Sheldon?
February 19th, 2007 at 9:55 pmThere are systemic reasons for all of the above.. the Koran and the example of Mohemmed.
Comment by Vince P
Brainwashed idiot.
Go outside and count the number of terrorist neighbores you have, lemme know when you get back from your drunken squalor
February 19th, 2007 at 9:56 pmVince P., you never answered my question the other night, being that you’re a coward. What’s your religion? Jewish?
February 19th, 2007 at 9:56 pmVince P is to Judaism, what David Duke is to Christianity. A hero in his own mind, and an embarrassment to everyone else…
Vince P is like Tim Mveigh with no friends.
February 19th, 2007 at 9:57 pmVince Pee is a racist-please don’t feed him.
February 19th, 2007 at 9:59 pmVince, you fricking moron. Muslims do not support clitoretomy, nor do they support any genital mutilation. What retard site did you get that from?
February 19th, 2007 at 9:59 pmComparing America to Muslim is not right. There is no country called Muslim. You have to compare religion to religion or country to country. NOT country to religion.
February 19th, 2007 at 9:59 pmI “hate” because I tell the truth about Islam? What an interesting POV.
None of you stand for anything. Your decadence reminds me of Europe at the time of the Black Death.
February 19th, 2007 at 9:59 pmWayne the regressive attacks freedom of speech.
Comment by Vince P
Wayne, the independant voter, progressive and veteran rights activist attacks hate speech from an idiot who would piss his pants if he ever saw real combat.
Go to http://www.stormfront.org, they would love your hate speech there.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:01 pmRachel Chickennardi = PISS SOAKED TROLL USING MY NAME.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:01 pmRachel teen Hoodlum = PISS SOAKED TROLL USING MY NAME.
PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO IT
No, Vince, you hate because you hate. Tell me the truth about some Christianity.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:01 pm#43 We stand for plenty, Corky. You stand for hate.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:02 pmBUt yeah… hate this country you fing hyprocrites.
Comment by Vince P
Your such a hypocrite you don’t recognize it
Your puny little world view and teeny tiny little brain can’t comprehend anything other than the dirt you sleep on and with.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:02 pm“Vince is a racist”
Um.. A religion isn’t a race.
Be lucky it isn’t otherwise what Leftist wouldn’t be a racist?
February 19th, 2007 at 10:03 pmAnother thing that’s common in the Muslim world is the “circumcism†of women. .. Comment by Vince P — February 19, 2007 @ 9:54 pm
You mean the old Jewish practice, that was referenced in the old Testament? The one that was performed on Sarah, that’s still practiced in Christian areas of Africa?
I think it’s great you’re so focused on women’s issues. But considering your hate slur you posted recently about women, I do believe your concern is lopsided and fake. Especially when you only seemed concerned with the brutalization of Muslim women. Doesn’t that make you a Muslim sympathizer Vince Peyew?
February 19th, 2007 at 10:03 pmNone of you stand for anything. Your decadence reminds me of Europe at the time of the Black Death.
Comment by Vince P
You wouldn’t know the first thing about what any of us stands for, Vince P.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:03 pmNone of you stand for anything. Your decadence reminds me of Europe at the time of the Black Death.
Comment by Vince P
The Army doesn’t even want you Vince.
What does decadence have to do with war you brainless halftwat?
February 19th, 2007 at 10:04 pmSince a majority of the troops are from small towns, I wonder how many went into the military as rabid conservatives and after this experience have become at least moderates, if not liberals?
The fact that liberal Iraq vet associations exist and thrive on their own while conservative Iraq vets takes digging on the part of the republic party tells me that their experience is quite liberalizing.
Or maybe it is just a misconception that the military is made up predominantly of conservatives?
February 19th, 2007 at 10:05 pmRachel Chickennardi = PISS SOAKED TROLL USING MY NAME.
Rachel teen Hoodlum = PISS SOAKED TROLL USING MY NAME.
PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO IT
February 19th, 2007 at 10:05 pmThou shall not bear false witness. But I’m sure you have no idea what this is about.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:05 pmAyaan Hirsi Ali (none of you probably who this amazing woman is.. progressive indeed) states:
Here is only a sample of some of the violence perpetrated on girls and women from Islamic cultures:
Four-year-old girls have their genitals mutilated: some of them so badly that they die of infections; others are traumatised for life from the experience and will later suffer recurrent infections of their reproductive and urinary systems.
Teenage girls are removed from school by force and kept inside the house to stop their schooling, stifle their thinking and suffocate their will.
Victims of incest and sexual abuse are beaten, deported or killed to prevent them from filing complaints.
Some pregnant victims of incest or abuse are forced by their fathers, older brothers, or uncles to have abortions in order to keep the family honour from being stained. In this era of DNA testing, the girls could demonstrate that they have been abused. Yet instead of punishing the abusers, the family treats the daughter as if she had dishonoured the family.
Girls and women who protest their maltreatment are beaten by their parents in order to kill their spirits and reduce them to a lifelong servitude that amounts to slavery.
Many girls and women who can’t bear to suffer any more take their own lives or develop numerous kinds of psychological ailments, including nervous breakdown and psychosis. They are literally driven mad.
A Muslim girl in Europe runs more risk than girls of other faiths of being forced into marriage by her parents with a stranger. In such a marriage — which, since it is forced, by definition starts with rape — she conceives child after child. She is an enslaved womb. Many of her children will grow up in a household with parents who are neither bound by love nor interested in the wellbeing of their children. The daughters will go through life as subjugated as their mothers and the sons become — in Europe — dropouts from school, attracted to pastimes that can vary from loitering in the streets to drug abuse to radical Islamic fundamentalism.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:06 pmVince, you fricking moron. Muslims do not support clitoretomy, nor do they support any genital mutilation. What retard site did you get that from? Comment by JPark — February 19, 2007 @ 9:59 pm
Yeah, poor Mizz Peyew doesn’t realize that the Koran specifically forbids any body mutilation. That’s why they discontinued the Jewish Circumcision tradition on men. It’s actually outlawed specifically by the Koran, and the practice is more commonly Christian/African in nature, and not Koranic or Muslim.
But Vanquished Piss, seems to practice self mutilation, by keeping his own head up his a-hum…
February 19th, 2007 at 10:06 pmUm.. A religion isn’t a race.
Be lucky it isn’t otherwise what Leftist wouldn’t be a racist?
Comment by Vince P
Truly, Vince, and I mean this universally, and to infinities end, your a sel-bound idiot
February 19th, 2007 at 10:07 pm“You wouldn’t know the first thing about what any of us stands for, Vince P.”
Whose fault is that. Maybe if you people spent more time focusing on whatever that is instead of tearing down your own country, I would know.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:07 pmHey, Vince?
No answer to post #27? C’mon…I’m starting to feel left out here.
It can’t be because you’re afraid to debate me…you’re clearly too stupid to be afraid. Perhaps you just haven’t finished reading it yet. ^_^
February 19th, 2007 at 10:07 pmUm.. A religion isn’t a race.
Be lucky it isn’t otherwise what Leftist wouldn’t be a racist?
Comment by Vince P — February 19, 2007 @ 10:03 pm
Would you translate your posts completely into Arabic, from Hebrew, before you post them next time skippy? This one didn’t even have proper sentence construction. It sounded like your braindead alter-ego michael, right down to the improper use of question mark punctuation.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:07 pmWell, I am much more of a fan of Chickennardi than i am of you, you troll slag.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:08 pmGo to http://www.stormfront.org, they would love your hate speech there. Comment by Wayne — February 19, 2007 @ 10:01 pm
Vince is Gay, they’d smother him in his sleep, and blame it on the liberal media. On second thought, Vince, you really should go hang out with your friends. I’m sure you’d benefit from getting to know them better.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:09 pmYou see Vince, your stupidity, whence you think intelligent, does NOT make a circuit.
Capice?
February 19th, 2007 at 10:09 pmVince, you are such a tool. We tell you exactly what we stand for and you still say we stand for nothing. The ones tearing down the country are the ones who are killing our soldiers. Bush and you.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:09 pmWhose fault is that. Maybe if you people spent more time focusing on whatever that is instead of tearing down your own country, I would know. Comment by Vince P — February 19, 2007 @ 10:07 pm
More incorrect use of punctuation, grammar and basic concepts of debate and logic.
Vince P = michael
February 19th, 2007 at 10:09 pm#60 He can’t even translate his texts from trailer trash to English. You ask too much.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:10 pmMaybe if you people spent more time focusing on whatever that is instead of tearing down your own country, I would know.
Comment by Vince P — February 19, 2007 @ 10:07 pm
When Republicans stop calling the Constitution ‘Just a piece of paper’, this won’t be so funny. When they stop attacking gay people likek you for tearing down the country, then people will stop laughing at the idiocy of your comments!
February 19th, 2007 at 10:10 pmInsults are all you losers have, since the reality of what I report can’t be denied by an objective human.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:11 pmWhose fault is that. Maybe if you people spent more time focusing on whatever that is instead of tearing down your own country, I would know.
Comment by Vince P
If you actually ever read our posts on threads you might not normally read, and stopped focusing on your hatred of us, you might get a clue.
Not that it matters in the slightest, of course.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:12 pmVince P = michael
Comment by ValiantVenusGrewFromUranus
I hate to admit it, but Vince isn’t stoooopit like michael.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:13 pm#60 He can’t even translate his texts from trailer trash to English. You ask too much. Comment by JPark — February 19, 2007 @ 10:10 pm
Yeah, Vince really throws a kink into Falwell’s argument that Gay people are smarter, so they don’t deserve civil rights protection. If anyone needs protecting (and hospitalization to keep them from harming themselves and others), it’s Vince!
February 19th, 2007 at 10:13 pmCome on Vince, if you criticize the religion of others, you should be proud of your own! Why are you so ashamed of your own religion Vince? Because it says you’re evil and going to hell? Is that why you’re fighting Islam, trying to get a free pass for your sins?
February 19th, 2007 at 10:14 pm#68 Losers are all you have. That is why you will have a very bad couple of decades at the polls.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:17 pmInsults are all you losers have, since the reality of what I report can’t be denied by an objective human. Comment by Vince P — February 19, 2007 @ 10:11 pm
Actually we have rational thought, reason, communication, negotiation, planning, logistics, cooperation, and a whole bunch of other traits that allow us to distinguish events, from the trends and absolutes you claim.
You however, are both a loser, and someone that only brings Insults and Hate. In other words, you are like your fellow Republicans – a Hypocrite!!!
Heck, you aren’t even believe to be an ‘equal’ by your fellow conservatives! They consider you a freak!!! And in this one individual case, maybe your fellow Conservatives are right!!! ;)
February 19th, 2007 at 10:17 pm#70 Sorry, he really is.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:17 pmI hate to admit it, but Vince isn’t stoooopit like michael.
Comment by Zooey — February 19, 2007 @ 10:13 pm
They’re two different arguing styles, but their vocabulary, grammar and punctuation habits are eerily similar. As is their posting schedule. Notice sometime.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:18 pmRachel Chickennardi = PISS SOAKED TROLL USING MY NAME.
Rachel teen Hoodlum = PISS SOAKED TROLL USING MY NAME.
PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO IT
February 19th, 2007 at 10:18 pmnsults are all you losers have, since the reality of what I report can’t be denied by an objective human.
Comment by Vince P
You, objective? How can one be objective when they see themselves as an object tied to an ideology of like minds?
Cannot you stand on your two feet and your two feet only?
February 19th, 2007 at 10:18 pmRachel Chickennardi = PISS SOAKED TROLL USING MY NAME.
Rachel teen Hoodlum = PISS SOAKED TROLL USING MY NAME.
PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO IT
February 19th, 2007 at 10:19 pmInsults are all you losers have, since the reality of what I report can’t be denied by an objective human.
Comment by Vince P — February 19, 2007 @ 10:11 pm
You have this weird obsession with Muslims. Seek help.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:20 pm#68 Losers are all you have. That is why you will have a very bad couple of decades at the polls.
Comment by JPark
Rubbish. America listens to great minds and thoughts, Limbaugh is not one you should model yourselves after. He’s but a walrus to us.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:20 pm#81 Reread the conversation. You will see that it is the other guy is the idiot-worshipper
February 19th, 2007 at 10:26 pmYou have this weird obsession with Muslims. Seek help.
Comment by Nat — February 19, 2007 @ 10:20 pm
It sounds like he’s been dating Seixon. Same twisted sense of lopsided non-logic. He doesn’t care if he, his religion, his political party, or himself has the ‘evil’ traits of his enemy. He’s convinced only the are bad. What a disturbed little lunatic.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:27 pm#68 is what was reffered, i should have deleted your name, my bad, no harm meant.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:29 pm#84 No problem.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:33 pm“You wouldn’t know the first thing about what any of us stands for, Vince P.â€
Its not as if you CANT TELL ANYONE YA FECK!!
JEEBBUS CHRIST MAN OPEN YER FLAP AND FLOW!
February 19th, 2007 at 10:38 pmI hate to admit it, but Vince isn’t stoooopit like michael.
Zooey
Thank you for the compliment.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:42 pm>You have this weird obsession with Muslims. Seek help.
Um,, they want to kill me. Your 6 year Bush-induced derangement is the larger mental illness.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:44 pmStill waiting, Vince…
February 19th, 2007 at 10:45 pm#89 Get help.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:45 pm#89 Your paranoia is not healthy.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:46 pmThank you for the compliment.
Comment by Vince P
It really wasn’t, but you’re welcome.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:46 pmComment by Vince P
Everything you write of Islam and arab culture is true of the western culture and christianity and judism preAmerica.
Forced mariages, treating women like cattle (they couldnt even vote in America until a couple decades ago), killing non believers (the old testiment admits to genocidal murder on men, women, and children) on town after town after town ….
Jewish texts even mention kidnapping other peoples women in mass and keeping them as wives…
What you are talking about is the part of humanity that has not had the benefit of modernization. Are they dangerous? Yes. So is all of humanity. We made the nuclear bomb not them. We are all just RECENTLY getting out of the darkages. Science is still in doubt by many people even in AMERICA…. Humanity has a long way to go and using war as a tool of change is going backwards not forwards.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:46 pmUm,, they want to kill me. Your 6 year Bush-induced derangement is the larger mental illness.
Comment by Vince P — February 19, 2007 @ 10:44 pm
You’re not that important.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:47 pmTrolls fling shit all around left-leaning blogs so participants won’t spend too much time discussing the failed Bush presidency and his attempt to escalate an unpopular war. We are witness to th end of the Republican Party–those who are out of step with an America who have seen enough death and destruction and lies. America will be asked in 2008, who’s values are closer to yours? Cheney’s and Rove’s or Obama’s and Clinton’s?
February 19th, 2007 at 10:47 pm#89 Your paranoia is not healthy.
Comment by JPark
You know this from first hand experience?
February 19th, 2007 at 10:47 pmUm,, they want to kill me. Your 6 year Bush-induced derangement is the larger mental illness.
Comment by Vince P
Who wants to kill you? You, specifically? Don’t you understand that by living in fear, you might as well already be dead?
February 19th, 2007 at 10:48 pm#96 Huh? Dude, I am not the one saying that millions of people want to kill me. That would be you. Kinda pathetic and wimpy, I would say.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:49 pmVince, seriously you should seek professional help.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:49 pmUm,, they want to kill me. Your 6 year Bush-induced derangement is the larger mental illness. Comment by Vince P — February 19, 2007 @ 10:44 pm
And you want to kill them. Your 6 year Bush-induced muslim derangement is the larger mental illness. Of course, it really came from your Clinton Derangement syndrome, and of course the Commie Derangement syndrome that predated it.
Sorry Vince, but we’ve seen your lunatic fringe before. You may think you’re an original, but you’re just like McCarthy before you. He did drag to, just like you.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:49 pmYou know this from first hand experience?
Comment by Vince P — February 19, 2007 @ 10:47 pm
Yeah, it’s called observation. We all observe that you’re paranoid.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:50 pmWhy has this thread been desecrated by the trolls among us who are more concerned about their relative idiocy then the rape of our nation’s heartland?
February 19th, 2007 at 10:51 pmWhy aren’t they ranting and raving on the threads addressing the fate of our soldiers and veterans?
Something is missing here.
#95 Honestly, there isn’t much to say about Bush’s failed presidency. Everybody with a brain already knows he is the worst president ever. The other 30% are a bit too stupid to understand that. They never will.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:51 pmDon’t you understand that by living in fear, you might as well already be dead? Comment by Zooey — February 19, 2007 @ 10:48 pm
When you’re brain dead, are you really alive to begin with? You certainly aren’t ‘living’.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:51 pmCome on Vince, what’s your religion, if it’s so much better than Islam. We really want to know!!!
February 19th, 2007 at 10:51 pmoh look what Malaysia is putting into force. Islam is getting more and more fundamentalist world wide.
Defend this now:
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2007/2/20/nation/16918568&sec=nation
KUALA TERENGGANU: To avert soaring cases of close proximity and vice here, the Terengganu Government has initiated an ingenious plan where “Mat Skoding†or spies will be recruited to tip-off the state religious department of immoral activities.
“Mat Skoding†will be part of the voluntary squad, under the guidance of state religious advisors, acting as vigilantes here.
State Islam Hadhari and Welfare Committee chairman Datuk Rosol Wahid said: “Some of these ‘spies’ could be waitresses or even janitors at hotels acting as auxiliary undercover agents for our religious department.â€
The “Mat Skoding†would be rewarded for their tip-offs, he told The Star here yesterday.
Rosol said the trained “spies†would be on the lookout for unmarried couples behaving suspiciously or for vice activities throughout the state.
“Accurate details are required for the enforcement officers to act, otherwise they would be pouncing on married couples,†he said.
Rosol said the “spies†would keep surveillance at parks and secluded areas to nab dating couples intending to engage in sex.
In addition, Rosol said the state government had approved the recruitment of 20 more anti-vice enforcement officers under the State Religious Department this year.
On rampant rape cases reported here, Rosol said most of cases reported were actually those involving consensual sex.
“Sometimes one party decides to ‘fix’ the partner over a misunderstanding or for reneging on a promise,†he said.
Rosol said parents were also to be blamed, especially for the upsurge in statutory rape cases.
“These parents will allow their daughters to roam freely and later when she is pregnant, they rush to the police station to lodge a report,†he said.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:52 pmYeah, it’s called observation. We all observe that you’re paranoid.
Comment by ValiantVenusGrewFromUranus —
heh. no.. what you do is called “the mob” groupthink, enforcement.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:54 pmSounds like something the religious right would do, Vincy. That isn’t Islam, that is religious extremism. You and Pat Robertson would be all over that if the law allowed it.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:56 pm#107 No, Vincy, groupthink is for those who can’t think for themselves. That would be you and your 30 percenters. Baaaaaaa!!!
February 19th, 2007 at 10:57 pm“Why has this thread been desecrated by the trolls among us who are more concerned about their relative idiocy then the rape of our nation’s heartland?”
that’s exactly what i’m trying to bring attention to. are you blind, ideologue?
February 19th, 2007 at 10:57 pmComment by Vince P
Thats really none of your or any Americans business. Just as it is none of our business what the Amish do in their communities. This type of crap has been going on for the past … what? 10,000 years? And you want us to get all excited about it now? We are on a roll with science, progress, and anti fundamentalist conservatism. All that crap from the past is where it belongs. Taking ourselves backwards to act just like them is NOT the answer.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:58 pmoh look what Malaysia is putting into force. Islam is getting more and more fundamentalist world wide. Comment by Vince P — February 19, 2007 @ 10:54 pm
So’s Christianity and Judaism in many parts of the world, sport. That’s why we make fun of you, and ask you which fundie religion you belong to? But you’re too cowardly to answer the question.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:59 pmComment by Vince P — February 19, 2007 @ 10:52 pm
How do you get these stories? Does Al Jazeera send you emails?
February 19th, 2007 at 10:59 pmthat’s exactly what i’m trying to bring attention to. are you blind, ideologue? Comment by Vince P — February 19, 2007 @ 10:57 pm
Nope, but you are. That’s an indisputable FACT, queenie.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:59 pmVince, There are and have been many Muslims living in the USA including Kareem Abdul Jabbar and Muhammed Ali. And there are MANY others. They don’t have any desire to kill you. There are many Muslims in the Middle East who don’t want to kill you. They just want to be left alone to live.
There are fanatics of Islam who do want to kill others but they are a small fanatic fringe. The Christians also have a fanatic fringe including some groups who believe that they need to kill all those who are not born again.
I say these things because the evidence does not back your paranoia. It is unhealthy not only for you, but for all of us. In fact, your paranoia endangers my family and I don’t like this at all. You Vince, should lay off the jungle juice.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:59 pmWell, since Vince is too much of a coward to discuss the relative merits of Islam versus Judaism and Christianity with me, I guess I’ll just shoehorn this thread back on topic.
Here’s a repost of my original post #13:
February 19th, 2007 at 10:59 pm
#110 – Vince P,
February 19th, 2007 at 11:00 pmNo.
heh. no.. what you do is called “the mob†groupthink, enforcement. Comment by Vince P — February 19, 2007 @ 10:54 pm
Actually that’s what you’re trying to do. You’re just not used to doing it on people that are smarter and better informed than you are. So you’re a miserable failure, queenie.
February 19th, 2007 at 11:00 pm#1109 Oh, THANK YOU VINCE. I now see the light. I am now an idiot right-wing robot. Thank you!!!!
February 19th, 2007 at 11:01 pmheh. no.. what you do is called “the mob†groupthink, enforcement.
Comment by Vince P
Considering we all look up our own information with which we brow beat you relentlessly and of which you seem to be oblivious… that makes it hard to see where any lemming mentality is going on. Yet you some how have “all on your own” come up with phrases that match word for word the talking points of fox news…
Do what I did over the last 15 years… if someone ANYONE says something that you dont know alot about …dont contradict them… instead go look it up on the Internet and educate yourself to why that person said what they did… yes yes … I know … you dont need to … Rush Limbaugh will probably get around to do that for you and telling you the gist of it later right?
February 19th, 2007 at 11:03 pmMuslim: Stop putting words in my mouth. I didnt say ALL Muslims. In fact I have said many times MOST Muslim are not violent. Why? Because they simply ignore the violent instructions. But those instructions are there for anyone so prone to forget thier humanity and implement them.
What people in other religions do is irrelevent. Islam has a unique dogma , there is no understanding to be had by changing the focus to other religion’s dogma wich Islam does not share.
February 19th, 2007 at 11:03 pmMuslim in America, are you sure you don’t want to kill Vince P (he or she needs that assurance)?
February 19th, 2007 at 11:04 pmVince, did you read the recent pentagon report that said Islam is getting more radical, because of the US policies of aggression? You CONs taking responsibility for your impact on the world, now that would be a change your ‘religion’ of blame everyone else for your screwups.
February 19th, 2007 at 11:05 pm“Well, since Vince is too much of a coward to discuss the relative merits of Islam versus Judaism and Christianity with me”
haha. like you know either of the two. Why would I want to discuss those with you when you know very little about one and nothing about the other? Your only motivation is to protect Islam.. not by citing what Islam says but by changing the subject.
When will you people give up that tactic and face Islam on its own terms?
February 19th, 2007 at 11:05 pm#121 I thought the Muslims were trying to kill you? Are you taking that back? Or are you now agreeing with my religious extremist comments (if you are you are totally reversing yourself)?
February 19th, 2007 at 11:06 pmHow do you get these stories? Does Al Jazeera send you emails?
Comment by Nat — February 19, 2007 @ 10:59 pm
Vince has a blog where he accumulates little anecdotes and ancient quotes that he thinks PROVES that all Muslims are deranged homicidal maniacs. Vince is really, really obsessed with this extremely skewed view. It smacks of paranoia to me.
February 19th, 2007 at 11:08 pmOdd, no weird, no hateful, this thread has been hijacked by a sex devient who loves to elaborate on misery……Way off topic folk’s and to much time wasted on a miserable child who has nothing to do but wale around here. While his parent’s are busy and allow this terrible behavior you have become his sitters..You can’t fix stupid or deranged….Blessings and good night…
February 19th, 2007 at 11:12 pm#126 I kinda got that impression. I don’t know why he is on the internets, they might track him down and kill him. I would suggest he just go into his duct-taped bomb cellar and wait for the apocalypse.
February 19th, 2007 at 11:12 pmhaha. like you know either of the two. Why would I want to discuss those with you when you know very little about one and nothing about the other? Comment by Vince P — February 19, 2007 @ 11:05 pm
How do you know what anyone knows, skippy?
Your only motivation is to protect Islam.. not by citing what Islam says but by changing the subject. Comment by Vince P — February 19, 2007 @ 11:05 pm
Project much, skippy?
When will you people give up that tactic and face Islam on its own terms? Comment by Vince P — February 19, 2007 @ 11:05 pm
When will you grow a brain?
February 19th, 2007 at 11:12 pmWhat people in other religions do is irrelevent. Islam has a unique dogma , there is no understanding to be had by changing the focus to other religion’s dogma wich Islam does not share.
Comment by Vince P — February 19, 2007 @ 11:03 pm
Most Muslims believe that Christianity is a continuation of Judaism and Islam is a continuation of Christianity. They also believe that all three religions worship the same God.
February 19th, 2007 at 11:13 pmWill we ever get back to topic? I see about two to twelve young Americans listed as killed in action each day of the week. Does this not disturb anyone? Is all of the oil in the middle east worth a single life?
February 19th, 2007 at 11:13 pm….there’s a song in this post somewhere
February 19th, 2007 at 11:14 pm#121 — That is SO wrong, Vince. Islam does not have a dogma any more dangerous than Christianity or Judaism. They are not the killers you make them out to be. Only a small few are, and they are doing that to defend their homeland.
In fact, many Americans rightly believe that NO Muslims were involved in 9/11. There are no Muslims listed on the flight manafest. And the Director of the FBI has stated that there is no proof of OBL’s involvement. It is all a fabrication invented by the NeoCons.
The Neocon agenda is a very violent dogma that is coming out of the White House and it threatens the very foundation of this country. Thats why many of us veterans are forming groups all over the country. Groups of war vets, not cowards like you Vince. Guys who actually fought for this country. We are concerned citizens as you should be if you knew what was REALLY going down.
February 19th, 2007 at 11:16 pmI have always made the distinction between Islam, the ideology,.and Muslims, human beings.
Islam is extreme. Muslims are varied in thier adherence.
February 19th, 2007 at 11:16 pmQur’an 5:59 “Say: ‘People of the Book! Do you disapprove of us for no other reason than that we believe in Allah, and the revelation that has come to us and that which came before?’ Say: ‘Shall I point out to you something much worse than this by the treatment it received from Allah? Those who incurred the curse of Allah and His wrath, those of whom He transformed into apes and swine.”
Ishaq:250 “The bestial transformation occurred when Allah turned Jews into apes, despised.”
Qur’an 88:1 “Has the narration reached you of the overwhelming (calamity)? Some faces (all disbelievers, Jews and Christians) that Day, will be humiliated, downcast, scorched by the burning fire, while they are made to drink from a boiling hot spring.”
Tabari VIII:130 “The Messenger said during his final illness, ‘Two religions cannot coexist in the Arabian Peninsula.’ Umar investigated the matter, then sent to the Jews, saying: ‘Allah has given permission for you to be expelled; for I have received word that the Prophet said that two religions cannot coexist in Arabia.”
Ishaq:245 “Do you love Jews and their religion, you liver-hearted ass, and not Muhammad? Their religion will never march with ours…. Jews make false professions about Islam. So Allah sent down: ‘Satan wishes to lead them astray.”
Ishaq:248 “Allah increases their sickness. A tormented doom awaits the Jews. Allah said, ‘They are mischief makers. They are fools. The Jews deny the truth and contradict what the Apostle has brought. I will mock them and let them continue to wander blindly.’”
Qur’an 5:13 “But because of their breach of their covenant We cursed the Jews, and made their hearts grow hard. They change the words from their (right) places [the illiterate prophet pronounced] and forget and abandon a good part of the message that was sent them. Nor will you cease to find deceit in them. And because of their breaking their covenant We have cursed them. They altered words from their context and they neglected a portion of the message they were reminded of.”
Ishaq:262 “Some Muslims remained friends with the Jews, so Allah sent down a Qur’an forbidding them to take Jews as friends. From their mouths hatred has already shown itself and what they conceal is worse.”
Ishaq:364 “Muslims, take not Jews and Christians as friends. Whoever protects them becomes one of them, they become diseased, and will earn a similar fate.”
Bukhari:V4B52N177 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. “O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him.”‘”
February 19th, 2007 at 11:18 pmJeez Vince, do you even know what you’re saying?
Muslim: One who adhere’s to Islam.
February 19th, 2007 at 11:18 pmChristian doctrine is extreme. Christians are varied in their adherence. Same damn thing.
February 19th, 2007 at 11:19 pmVince P sez:
Well well, Vince…I had just about given up on you, and here you’ve gone and grown a pair. Will wonders never cease?
Why wouldn’t you? After all, your mission here seems to be to ‘educate’ the less well-informed, right? So why wouldn’t you…unless you were afraid of being shown up?
You know even less about me than you do about organized religions. Don’t embarrass yourself even more by pretending to know my motivations. Stick to the facts…if you’re able.
Discussing the other major religions in the world and comparing them to Islam isn’t ‘changing the subject’. The United States is 80% Christian, and our Commander-in-Chief is a Fundie who claims God talks to him…that would seem to make discussion of other religions quite germane to the subject at hand.
When will deluded idiots like you stop pointing out the inhumanity in the religious beliefs in others, while pointedly ignoring the same inhumanity in your own?
One more thing, Vince…you’ve been asked repeatedly what faith you follow. If you’re going to slag someone else’s faith, it’s only fair you stand behind your own. Put up or shut up.
February 19th, 2007 at 11:21 pmComment by Vince P #1
Rummy,
…Are you posting under an assumed name again?
February 19th, 2007 at 11:21 pmI restrained myself with the quotes. There’s enough of them that can fill the enitre space this thread currently takes up with 135 messages.
February 19th, 2007 at 11:21 pmJesus says that he has come to destroy families by making family members hate each other. He has “come not to send peace, but a sword.”
So gentle, that Jesus.
February 19th, 2007 at 11:22 pmAnd I will give YOU more quotes. THAT one was from the new testament, the kinder, gentler Christianity. I could dig into the old if you have the stomach, you hypocrite.
February 19th, 2007 at 11:23 pmWill we ever get back to topic? I see about two to twelve young Americans listed as killed in action each day of the week. Does this not disturb anyone? Is all of the oil in the middle east worth a single life?
Comment by WaltTheMan — February 19, 2007 @ 11:13 pm
No amount of death is too great for Vince’s sercurity.
February 19th, 2007 at 11:23 pmI restrained myself with the quotes. There’s enough of them that can fill the enitre space this thread currently takes up with 135 messages.
Comment by Vince P — February 19, 2007 @ 11:21 pm
How do we know if any of those quotes are accurate?
February 19th, 2007 at 11:25 pmLet it be known that Jpark asked for this.
Tabari IX:69 “Killing disbelievers is a small matter to us.”
Tabari VIII:141 “The battle cry of the Companions of the Messenger of Allah that night was: ‘Kill! Kill! Kill!’”
Bukhari:V5B59N512 “The Prophet had their men killed, their woman and children taken captive.”
Ishaq:489 “Do the bastards think that we are not their equal in fighting? We are men who think that there is no shame in killing.”
Qur’an 2:191 “And kill them wherever you find and catch them. Drive them out from where they have turned you out; for Al-Fitnah (polytheism, disbelief, oppression) is worse than slaughter.”
Qur’an 33:60 “Truly, if the Hypocrites stir up sedition, if the agitators in the City do not desist, We shall urge you to go against them and set you over them. Then they will not be able to stay as your neighbors for any length of time. They shall have a curse on them. Whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain without mercy—a fierce slaughter—murdered, a horrible murdering.”
Bukhari:V4B52N270 “Allah’s Messenger said, ‘Who is ready to kill Ashraf? He has said injurious things about Allah and His Apostle.’ Maslama got up saying, ‘Would you like me to kill him?’ The Prophet proclaimed, ‘Yes.’ Maslama said, ‘Then allow me to lie so that I will be able to deceive him.’ Muhammad said, ‘You may do so.’”
Ishaq:368 “Ka’b’s body was left prostrate [humbled in submission]. After his fall, all of the Nadir Jews were brought low. Sword in hand we cut him down. By Muhammad’s order we were sent secretly by night. Brother killing brother. We lured him to his death with guile [cunning or deviousness]. Traveling by night, bold as lions, we went into his home. We made him taste death with our deadly swords. We sought victory for the religion of the Prophet.”
Tabari VII:97
Ishaq:368 “We carried Ka’b’s head and brought it to Muhammad during the night. We saluted him as he stood praying and told him that we had slain Allah’s enemy. When he came out to us we cast Ashraf’s head before his feet. The Prophet praised Allah that the poet had been assassinated and complimented us on the good work we had done in Allah’s Cause. Our attack upon Allah’s enemy cast terror among the Jews, and there was no Jew in Medina who did not fear for his life.’”
Tabari VII:97 “The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, ‘Kill any Jew who falls under your power.’”
Ishaq:369 “Thereupon Mas’ud leapt upon Sunayna, one of the Jewish merchants with whom his family had social and commercial relations and killed him. The Muslim’s brother complained, saying, ‘Why did you kill him? You have much fat in you belly from his charity.’ Mas’ud answered, ‘By Allah, had Muhammad ordered me to murder you, my brother, I would have cut off your head.’ Wherein the brother said, ‘Any religion that can bring you to this is indeed wonderful!’ And he accepted Islam.”
Bukhari:V1B1N6 “Just issue orders to kill every Jew in the country.”
Ishaq: 676 “‘You obey a stranger who encourages you to murder for booty. You are greedy men. Is there no honor among you?’ Upon hearing those lines Muhammad said, ‘Will no one rid me of this woman?’ Umayr, a zealous Muslim, decided to execute the Prophet’s wishes. That very night he crept into the writer’s home while she lay sleeping surrounded by her young children. There was one at her breast. Umayr removed the suckling babe and then plunged his sword into the poet. The next morning in the mosque, Muhammad, who was aware of the assassination, said, ‘You have helped Allah and His Apostle.’ Umayr said. ‘She had five sons; should I feel guilty?’ ‘No,’ the Prophet answered. ‘Killing her was as meaningless as two goats butting heads.’”
Bukhari:V1B11N626 “The Prophet said, ‘No prayer is harder for the hypocrites than the Fajr. If they knew the reward they would come to (the mosque) even if they had to crawl. I decided to order a man to lead the prayer and then take a flame to burn all those who had not left their houses for the prayer, burning them alive inside their homes.’”
Tabari VIII:178
Ishaq:550 “Muhammad ordered that certain men should be assassinated even if they were found behind the curtains of the Ka’aba. Among them was Abdallah bin Sa’d [the Qur'an's one and only scribe]. The reason that Allah’s Messenger ordered that he should be slain was because he had become a Muslim and used to write down Qur’an Revelation. Then he apostatized [rejected Islam].”
Tabari VIII:179 “Abdallah bin Sa’d fled to Uthman, his brother, who after hiding him, finally surrendered him to the Prophet. Uthman asked for clemency. Muhammad did not respond, remaining silent for a long time. Muhammad explained, ‘By Allah, I kept silent so that one of you might go up to him and cut off his head!’ One of the Ansar said, ‘Why didn’t you give me a sign?’ Allah’s Apostle replied, ‘A prophet does not kill by pointing.’”
Tabari VIII:179
Ishaq:550 “Among those who Muhammad ordered killed was Abdallah bin Khatal. The Messenger ordered him to be slain because while he was a Muslim, Muhammad had sent him to collect the zakat tax with an Ansar and a slave of his…. His girls used to sing a satire about Muhammad so the Prophet ordered that they should be killed along with Abdullah. He was killed by Sa’id and Abu Barzah. The two shared in his blood. One of the singing girls was killed quickly but the other fled. So Umar caused his horse to trample the one who fled, killing her.”
Ishaq:551 “Another victim was Huwayrith. He used to insult Muhammad in Mecca. Huwayrith was put to death by Ali. The Messenger ordered Miqyas’ assassination only because he had killed an Ansar who had killed his brother by mistake and then became a renegade by rejecting Islam.”
Tabari VIII:180 “Also among those eliminated were Ikrimah bin Abu Jahl and Sarah, a slave of one of Abd Muttalib’s sons. She taunted Muhammad while he was in Mecca.”
Tabari VIII:181 “The Messenger ordered six men and four women to be assassinated. One of these women was Hind, who swore allegiance and became a Muslim.”
Bukhari:V4B52N281 “They took Khubaib to Mecca after the battle of Badr. He had killed Harith, a Meccan nobleman. The Quraysh gathered to kill him in retribution.… Khubaib wanted to offer two Rakat (prayers). They allowed this and he said, ‘O Allah, kill them all with no exception.’ He then recited the poetic verse: ‘I’m being martyred as a Muslim. I do not mind how I am killed in Allah’s Cause. For my killing is for Allah’s Sake. If Allah wishes, He will bless the amputated parts of my torn body.’ Then the son of Harith [the man Khubaib had murdered] killed him.”
Ishaq:597 “When the Apostle returned to Medina after his raid on Ta’if, word spread that he had killed some of the men who had satirized and insulted him. The poets who were left spread in all directions.”
Tabari IX:76 “Malik has reported to me that you were the first from Himyar to embrace Islam and that you have killed infidels, so rejoice at your good fortune.”
Tabari IX:121 “When it was feasible for me, I struck him with my sword and killed him. Then I departed, leaving his women to throw themselves at him. When I returned to the Prophet, he asked, ‘Is your mission accomplished?’ ‘Yes. I have killed him.’”
Bring it on.
February 19th, 2007 at 11:26 pm#132
Song what song? I don’t see a song in this post … oh wait, my post, #4.
Speaking of my post on #4 …
Vince P., what do you think of Bush’s war?
February 19th, 2007 at 11:28 pmHey Vince…I can pull passages out of a holy book too:
Recognize the book, genius?
February 19th, 2007 at 11:28 pmHow do we know if any of those quotes are accurate?
Comment by Nat
They are accurate… I have read them myself… though they are taken out of context… most of the things about jews are laws or whatever that are responses to what jews and christians had done to them… but fundies ignore that part… jews are allowed to treat anyone any way they want because they are not “ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL” … they are better than Americans….
Hey Vince do tell us what happened in arabs societies in the 200 years before the creation of Islam….please do tell..
February 19th, 2007 at 11:30 pmLet it be known that Jpark asked for this.
Comment by Vince P — February 19, 2007 @ 11:26 pm
How do we know if any of those quotes are accurate?
February 19th, 2007 at 11:31 pmNice sophistry Triple. Now tell me where anyone alive today is as dumb as you and thinks those are instructions?
February 19th, 2007 at 11:33 pmVince P,
February 19th, 2007 at 11:33 pmIf you want to infect a thread, try this one.
Nat: well I guess you could try researching them. Though you are all experts on Islam since you all tell me how wrong I am, you should know this.
February 19th, 2007 at 11:34 pmQur’an:2:216 “Jihad (holy fighting in Allah’s Cause) is ordained for you (Muslims), though you dislike it. But it is possible that you dislike a thing which is good for you, and like a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knows, and you know not.” [Another translation reads:] “Warfare is ordained for you.”
February 19th, 2007 at 11:34 pmQur’an:4:95 “Not equal are those believers who sit at home and receive no injurious hurt, and those who strive hard, fighting Jihad in Allah’s Cause with their wealth and lives. Allah has granted a rank higher to those who strive hard, fighting Jihad with their wealth and bodies to those who sit (at home). Unto each has Allah promised good, but He prefers Jihadists who strive hard and fight above those who sit home. He has distinguished his fighters with a huge reward.”
Bukhari:V4B52N44 “A man came to Allah’s Apostle and said, ‘Instruct me as to such a deed as equals Jihad in reward.’ He replied, ‘I do not find such a deed.’”
Bukhari:V1B2N25 “Allah’s Apostle was asked, ‘What is the best deed?’ He replied, ‘To believe in Allah and His Apostle Muhammad.’ The questioner then asked, ‘What is the next best in goodness?’ He replied, ‘To participate in Jihad, religious fighting in Allah’s Cause.’”
Qur’an:33:22 “Among the Believers are men who have been true to their covenant with Allah and have gone out for Jihad (holy fighting). Some have completed their vow to extreme and have been martyred fighting and dying in His Cause, and some are waiting, prepared for death in battle.”
Bukhari:V4B53N412 “Allah’s Apostle said on the day of the conquest of Mecca, ‘There is no migration now, only Jihad, holy battle. And when you are called for Jihad, you should come out at once.’”
Bukhari:V4B52N311 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘There is no migration after the Conquest of Mecca, but only Jihad. When you are called by the Muslim ruler for Jihad fighting, you should go forth immediately, responding to the call.’”
Muslim:C28B20N4631 “I heard Muhammad say: ‘I would not stay behind when a raid for Jihad was being mobilized unless it was going to be too hard on the believers. I love that I should be killed in Allah’s Cause; then I should be brought back to life and be killed again.’”
Qur’an:9:111 “Allah has purchased the believers, their lives and their goods. For them (in return) is the Garden (of Paradise). They fight in Allah’s Cause, and they slay and are slain; they kill and are killed.”
Bukhari:V4B52N196 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say,”None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.”‘”
Qur’an:47:4 “So, when you clash with the unbelieving Infidels in battle (fighting Jihad in Allah’s Cause), smite their necks until you overpower them, killing and wounding many of them. At length, when you have thoroughly subdued them, bind them firmly, making (them) captives. Thereafter either generosity or ransom (them based upon what benefits Islam) until the war lays down its burdens. Thus are you commanded by Allah to continue carrying out Jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam.”
Qur’an:9:91 “There is no blame on those who are old, weak, ill, or who find no resources to spend (on Jihad, holy fighting), if they are sincere (in duty) to Allah and His Messenger.”
Qur’an:9:122 “It is not proper for the Believers to all go forth together to fight Jihad. A troop from every expedition should remain behind when others go to war.”
Bukhari:V4B52N46 “I heard Allah’s Apostle saying, ‘The example of a Mujahid [Muslim fighter] in Allah’s Cause—and Allah knows best who really strives in His Cause—is like a person who fasts and prays without ever stopping. Allah guarantees that He will admit the Mujahid in His Cause into Paradise if he is killed, otherwise He will return him to his home safely with rewards and war booty.’”
Bukhari:V4B52N50 “The Prophet said, ‘A single endeavor of fighting in Allah’s Cause is better than the world and whatever is in it.’”
Noble Qur’an:2:190 Footnote: “Jihad is holy fighting in Allah’s Cause with full force of numbers and weaponry. It is given the utmost importance in Islam and is one of its pillars. By Jihad Islam is established, Allah’s Word is made superior (which means only Allah has the right to be worshiped), and Islam is propagated. By abandoning Jihad Islam is destroyed and Muslims fall into an inferior position; their honor is lost, their lands are stolen, their rule and authority vanish. Jihad is an obligatory duty in Islam on every Muslim. He who tries to escape from this duty, or does not fulfill this duty, dies as a hypocrite.”
Bukhari:V4B52N65 “A man came to the Prophet and asked, ‘A man fights for war booty; another fights for fame and a third fights for showing off; which of them fights in Allah’s Cause?’ The Prophet said, ‘He who fights that Allah’s Word, Islam, should be superior, fights in Allah’s Cause.’”
Now tell me where anyone alive today is as dumb as you and thinks those are instructions?
Comment by Vince P
Every bit as much as your passages from the Quran. You are blinded by your fear.
February 19th, 2007 at 11:36 pmHey Vince do tell us what happened in arabs societies in the 200 years before the creation of Islam….please do tell..
Comment by Gerald Gibson Jr — February 19, 2007 @ 11:30 pm
The Koran tells the story of how Islam was started. At that time Muslims were being persecuted by Jews and Christians and Arabs who did not agree with the monotheistic aspect of it.
February 19th, 2007 at 11:38 pm“And Cain slayed Abel” – really good start for family values!
February 19th, 2007 at 11:41 pmVince buddy, relax, smoke a fatty, drink a brew, find some good porn, take care of business, go to bed, and see your shrink tomorrow.
February 19th, 2007 at 11:41 pm#150 Now tell me where anyone alive today is as dumb as you and thinks those are instructions?
Comment by Vince P — February 19, 2007 @ 11:33 pm
Now apply that statement of yours to everything you are quoting from the koran.
February 19th, 2007 at 11:42 pmwell I guess you could try researching them. Though you are all experts on Islam since you all tell me how wrong I am, you should know this.
Comment by Vince P — February 19, 2007 @ 11:34 pm
I cannot read Arabic so I don’t know what the Koran says except for what people have told me.
February 19th, 2007 at 11:43 pmI believe Vince P. is right. Islamic extremists are trying to kill him. If you listen to them, that’s what they say. The reason they fly planes into buildings, blow up coffee shops, and trains, and behead people; is to kill infidels, people that don’t believe the way they do. What’s curious is not that Vince believes it, but the denial of any threat by progressives (due, in large part, to an unwillingness to recognize that Bush had, and has, legitimate reasons to prosecute the war on terror).
Muslim in America. I understand you’re frustration. Here’s mine. Where are the moderate Muslims? Why, when the pope misspeaks, are there death threats and riots. Why are fundamentalists shutting down plays in Germany? How does a Danish Cartoonist warrant death threats and riots. The list goes on and on. Here’s a whole article on Islamic intolerance:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,462149,00.html
Appeasing fundamentalist Islamic intolerance is as sound a strategy as appeasing 1930s fascism. The West has been paralyzed by political correctness. It is the voice of moderate Muslims, that is desperately needed and long overdue.
February 19th, 2007 at 11:44 pmMuslim scholars wrote in the preface of the Hadith and Qur’an:
“Bukhari is a Collection of sayings and deeds of Prophet Muhammad, also known as the Sunnah.
The reports of the Prophet’s sayings and deeds are called Hadith. Bukhari lived a couple of centuries after the Prophet’s death and collected his Hadith. Each report was checked for compatibility with the Qur’an, and the veracity of the chain of reporters had to be established.â€
“The Qur’an is one leg of two which form the basis of Islam. The second is the Sunnah of the Prophet. What makes the Qur’an different from the Sunnah is its form.
The Qur’an is quite literally the Word of Allah, whereas the Sunnah [which is comprised of Hadith] was inspired by Allah but the wording and actions are the Prophet’s.â€
February 19th, 2007 at 11:45 pmThe Prophet said, ‘He who fights that Allah’s Word, Islam, should be superior, fights in Allah’s Cause.’â€
Comment by Vince P
You fool, fight in your own mind break your entropic state. Why do you rest upon past shoulders not climb above?
February 19th, 2007 at 11:46 pmNat oversimplifies.
There was this illiterate bandit, Mohaemmed, who alledged to be getting visions from yahweh. So he went to the Jews of the day and said “Hi.. Your god talks to me, so do what I say” And they rightly laughed at him. this hurt his feelings and he spent the rest of his life trying to kill every last one.
February 19th, 2007 at 11:47 pmWhat’s curious is not that Vince believes it, but the denial of any threat by progressives (due, in large part, to an unwillingness to recognize that Bush had, and has, legitimate reasons to prosecute the war on terror). Comment by paul — February 19, 2007 @ 11:44 pm
What’s curious, is that CONs like you, keep arguing that progressives deny that a threat exists from extremists of many sorts – including you. This is a dishonest strawman, exactly what we expect from dishonest fools. Reality has a liberal bias, and fools like Randy and Vince think that only others aren’t extremists – while acting like extremists themselves.
Vince P says Islam is inherently violent, but ignores the vast quantity of violence in Jewish and Christian teaching.
Tell me Vince P, how did the Jews feel under the inquisition? How did the pagans do under Christian Rome?
You’re both ignorant fools.
February 19th, 2007 at 11:48 pmAppeasing fundamentalist Islamic intolerance is as sound a strategy as appeasing 1930s fascism. The West has been paralyzed by political correctness. It is the voice of moderate Muslims, that is desperately needed and long overdue. Comment by paul — February 19, 2007 @ 11:44 pm
Please, what’s like 1930s fascism is your values, Nazi boy. Fool.
February 19th, 2007 at 11:48 pmdue, in large part, to an unwillingness to recognize that Bush had, and has, legitimate reasons to prosecute the war on terror).
your an idiot paul. operation polo step was both.
February 19th, 2007 at 11:48 pmVince P sez:
I can only assume that ‘Triple’ is supposed to refer to me. Also, Vince, you seem to be unclear on the meaning of the word ’sophistry’. Go educate yourself. I’ll wait.
Well, anyone who truly considers themselves a Christian or a Jew must take these as instructions, because their holy book says so. It is not for the individual to pick and choose which verses he wants to follow and which he wants to ignore…after all:
Starting to get it yet, genius? Just a reminder…the President of the United States is a Fundamentalist Christian who prays several times daily and believes God speaks to him. Remember that.
(BTW, you cannot condemn my argument by saying ‘no one alive today thinks these are instructions’, without condemning your original argument regarding Islam and the Qur’Än. Sorry.)
February 19th, 2007 at 11:49 pmBukhari:V4B52N220 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘I have been made victorious with terror.’”
February 19th, 2007 at 11:49 pmQur’an:8:12 “I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle.”
Qur’an:8:57 “If you gain mastery over them in battle, inflict such a defeat as would terrorize them, so that they would learn a lesson and be warned.”
Ishaq:326 “If you come upon them, deal so forcibly as to terrify those who would follow, that they may be warned. Make a severe example of them by terrorizing Allah’s enemies.”
Qur’an:8:67 “It is not fitting for any prophet to have prisoners until he has made a great slaughtered in the land.”
Ishaq:588 “When the Apostle descends on your land none of your people will be left when he leaves.”
Tabari IX:42 “We have been dealt a situation from which there is no escape. You have seen what Muhammad has done. Arabs have submitted to him and we do not have the strength to fight. You know that no herd is safe from him. And no one even dares go outside for fear of being terrorized.”
Ishaq:326 “Allah said, ‘No Prophet before Muhammad took booty from his enemy nor prisoners for ransom.’ Muhammad said, ‘I was made victorious with terror. The earth was made a place for me to clean. I was given the most powerful words. Booty was made lawful for me. I was given the power to intercede. These five privileges were awarded to no prophet before me.’”
Ishaq:327 “Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”
Qur’an:7:3 “Little do you remember My warning. How many towns have We destroyed as a raid by night? Our punishment took them suddenly while they slept for their afternoon rest. Our terror came to them; Our punishment overtook them.”
Ishaq:510 “When the Apostle looked down on Khaybar he told his Companions, ‘O Allah, Lord of the Devils and what into error they throw, and Lord of the winds and what they winnow, we ask Thee for the booty of this town and its people. Forward in the name of Allah.’ He used to say this of every town he raided.”
Bukhari:V5B59N512 “The Prophet offered the Fajr Prayer [Prayer of Fear] near Khaybar when it was still dark. He said, ‘Allahu-Akbar!’ [Allah is Greatest] Khaybar is destroyed, for whenever we approach a hostile nation to fight, then evil will be the morning for those who have been warned.’ Then the inhabitants came out running on their roads. The Prophet had their men killed; their children and woman were taken as captives.”
Bukhari:V9B87N127 “The Prophet said, ‘I have been given the keys of eloquent speech and given victory with terror.’”
Ishaq:517 “Khaybar was stormed by the Apostle’s squadron, fully armed, powerful and strong. It brought certain humiliation with Muslim men in its midst. We attacked and they met their doom. Muhammad conquered the Jews in fighting that day as they opened their eyes to our dust.”
Tabari VIII:116
Ishaq:511 “So Muhammad began seizing their herds and their property bit by bit. He conquered home by home. The Messenger took some people captive, including Safiyah and her two cousins. The Prophet chose Safiyah for himself.”
Bukhari:V5B59N512 “The Prophet had their men killed, their children and woman taken captive.”
Tabari VIII:129 “After the Messenger had finished with the Khaybar Jews, Allah cast terror into the hearts of the Jews in Fadak when they received news of what Allah had brought upon Khaybar. Fadak became the exclusive property of Allah’s Messenger.”
Tabari VIII:133 “The raiding party went to Tha’labah. One of Muhammad’s slaves, said, ‘Prophet, I know where Tha’labah can be taken by surprise.’ So Muhammad sent him with 130 men. They raided the town and drove off camels and sheep, bringing them back to Medina.”
Tabari VIII:138 “Muhammad carried arms, helmets, and spears. He led a hundred horses, appointing Bahir to be in charge of the weapons and Maslamah to be in charge of the horses. When the Quraysh received word of this, it frightened them.”
Qur’an:33:26 “Allah made the Jews leave their homes by terrorizing them so that you killed some and made many captive. And He made you inherit their lands, their homes, and their wealth. He gave you a country you had not traversed before.”
Qur’an:59:2 “It was Allah who drove the [Jewish] People of the Book from their homes and into exile. They refused to believe and imagined that their strongholds would protect them against Allah. But Allah came at them from where they did not suspect, and filled their hearts with terror. Their homes were destroyed. So learn a lesson, O men who have eyes. This is My warning…they shall taste the torment of Fire.”
My post # 156 demonstrates that Israeli extremists preceeded Islamic extremists by 4448 years (If you believe in the Bible.).
February 19th, 2007 at 11:50 pmThe Qur’an is quite literally the Word of Allah, whereas the Sunnah [which is comprised of Hadith] was inspired by Allah but the wording and actions are the Prophet’s.†Comment by Vince P — February 19, 2007 @ 11:45 pm
What’s your word of the Torah Vince P? Since it’s the same Allah that we’re talking about. Are you the new prophet Vince? The GAY prophet that’s going to save Israel from Islam?
February 19th, 2007 at 11:50 pmNat oversimplifies.
Comment by Vince P — February 19, 2007 @ 11:47 pm
BWAHAHAHA, that’s SOO FUNNNNYY!!! You accusing others of oversimplifying! That’s like Ted Haggard accusing others of being Gay and a Hypocrite! You Foolish little boy…
February 19th, 2007 at 11:51 pm#160 paul
I believe right wing extremists are trying to kill me…. look, Timothy McVeigh bombed a federal building.
Where are the moderate right wing extremists? Why, when a liberal makes a point, do they blow off a lot of hot air, make death threats, and mail white powder? Why are fundamentalists so obsessed with sex, and changing the word ‘vagina’ to hoohaa? How does a protesting mother of a dead soldier warrant death threats and hate? The list goes on, but I’m sure you are too dumb to realize the intolerance of the right.
February 19th, 2007 at 11:52 pmAppeasing fundamentalist Islamic intolerance is as sound a strategy as appeasing 1930s fascism. The West has been paralyzed by political correctness. It is the voice of moderate Muslims, that is desperately needed and long overdue.
Comment by paul — February 19, 2007 @ 11:44 pm
You and Vince are just paranoid. And this is what the Bush administration likes. It is the same way Hitler gained power in Germany.
February 19th, 2007 at 11:52 pmThere was this illiterate bandit, Mohaemmed, who alledged to be getting visions from yahweh.
So he went to the Jews of the day and said “Hi.. Your god talks to me, so do what I say†And they rightly laughed at him. this hurt his feelings and he spent the rest of his life trying to kill every last one.
Comment by Vince P — February 19, 2007 @ 11:47 pm
And here you are, oversimplifying, lying and smearing! You really are a gay REPUBLICAN aren’t you, skippy!
February 19th, 2007 at 11:53 pmFor people who go into shock when you think a US soldier killed some jihadi scum, you sure dont like it when I reveal your prophet’s actions. Next thing we know, you’ll be rioting outside burning down embassies.
February 19th, 2007 at 11:53 pmThere was this illiterate bandit, Mohaemmed, who alledged to be getting visions from yahweh. So he went to the Jews of the day and said “Hi.. Your god talks to me, so do what I say†And they rightly laughed at him. this hurt his feelings and he spent the rest of his life trying to kill every last one.
Comment by Vince P — February 19, 2007 @ 11:47 pm
Now you’re just making shit up.
February 19th, 2007 at 11:54 pmFor people who go into shock when you think a US soldier killed some jihadi scum, you sure dont like it when I reveal your prophet’s actions. Next thing we know, you’ll be rioting outside burning down embassies. Comment by Vince P — February 19, 2007 @ 11:53 pm
Ah, the bloodthirsty Vince, is judging others. FUNNNYYY!!!
February 19th, 2007 at 11:55 pmFor people who go into shock when you think a US soldier killed some jihadi scum, you sure dont like it when I reveal your prophet’s actions. Next thing we know, you’ll be rioting outside burning down embassies.
Comment by Vince P — February 19, 2007 @ 11:53 pm
If those are indeed the words of the prophet, conservatives must follow Islam.
February 19th, 2007 at 11:57 pmNat: By all means , ask whoever you like if what I said is true (even though I did phrase it rather impolitely, the story is true)
February 19th, 2007 at 11:57 pmThe simple fact is, Muslims have total sanction to engage in Jihad against non-believers. This isn’t in dispute. The fact that most do not do it does not make Islam any less of a danger.
Drop your political correctness and realize what the real threat to you is.
Comment by Vince P — February 19, 2007 @ 9:38 pm
Actually that’s a JEWISH/CHRISTIAN value to have Jihand against. Just ask the PAGANS (formerly the Arabs) about those values.
What dumbasses like you always forget to mention, is that mohammad called Christians and Jews brothers that are believers.
You insane Christians and Jews however, don’t believe that Islam is a religion of believers.
Sorry sport, but that makes you the less tolerant one.
Especially Orthodox Jews like yourself.
February 19th, 2007 at 11:58 pmNat: By all means , ask whoever you like if what I said is true (even though I did phrase it rather impolitely, the story is true)
Comment by Vince P — February 19, 2007 @ 11:57 pm
You wouldn’t know truth, if it came in an extra large dildo.
February 19th, 2007 at 11:59 pmNat .. are all these people liars too?
John Quincy Adams wrote:
In the seventh century of the Christian era, a wandering Arab of the lineage of Hagar [i.e., Muhammad], the Egyptian, combining the powers of transcendent genius, with the preternatural energy of a fanatic, and the fraudulent spirit of an impostor, proclaimed himself as a messenger from Heaven, and spread desolation and delusion over an extensive portion of the earth. Adopting from the sublime conception of the Mosaic law, the doctrine of one omnipotent God; he connected indissolubly with it, the audacious falsehood, that he was himself his prophet and apostle. Adopting from the new Revelation of Jesus, the faith and hope of immortal life, and of future retribution, he humbled it to the dust by adapting all the rewards and sanctions of his religion to the gratification of the sexual passion. He poisoned the sources of human felicity at the fountain, by degrading the condition of the female sex, and the allowance of polygamy; and he declared undistinguishing and exterminating war, as a part of his religion, against all the rest of mankind. THE ESSENCE OF HIS DOCTRINE WAS VIOLENCE AND LUST: TO EXALT THE BRUTAL OVER THE SPIRITUAL PART OF HUMAN NATURE (Adams’s capital letters)… Between these two religions, thus contrasted in their characters, a war of twelve hundred years has already raged. The war is yet flagrant… While the merciless and dissolute dogmas of the false prophet shall furnish motives to human action, there can never be peace upon earth, and goodwill towards men.”
Lord Tebbit wrote:
“The Muslim religion is so unreformed since it was created that nowhere in the Muslim world has there been any real advance in science, or art or literature, or technology in the last 500 years”
Vernon Richards wrote:
“The true Islamic concept of peace goes something like this: “Peace comes through submission to Muhammad and his concept of Allah” (i.e. Islam). As such the Islamic concept of peace, meaning making the whole world Muslim, is actually a mandate for war. It was inevitable and unavoidable that the conflict would eventually reach our borders, and so it has.”
Andre Servier, 1922 wrote:
“Islam was not a torch, as has been claimed, but an extinguisher. Conceived in a barbarous brain for the use of a barbarous people, it was – and it remains – incapable of adapting itself to civilization. Wherever it has dominated, it has broken the impulse towards progress and checked the evolution of society.â€
Theodore Roosevelt wrote:
“The Greeks who triumphed at Marathon and Salamis did a work without which the world would have been deprived of the social value of Plato and Aristotle, of Aeschylus, Herodotus, and Thucydides. The civilization of Europe, America, and Australia exists today at all only because of the victories of civilized man over the enemies of civilization, because the victories stretching through the centuries from the days of Miltiades and Themistocles to those of Charles Martel in the eighth century and those of John Sobieski in the seventeenth century.â€
“During the thousand years that included the careers of the Frankish soldier and the Polish king, the Christians of Asia and Africa proved unable to wage successful war with the Moslem conquerors; and in consequence Christianity practically vanished from the two continents; and today nobody can find in them any “social values” whatever, in the sense in which we use the words, so far as the sphere of Mohammedan influence. There are such “social values” today in Europe, America, and Australia only because during those thousand years the Christians of Europe possessed the warlike power to do what the Christians of Asia and Africa had failed to do – that is, to beat back the Moslem invader.â€
David Selbourne – The Losing Battle with Islam:
“Of course, there are distinguished precedents even for the bleakest and coarsest of these judgements. To Montesquieu in 1748, Islam’s ‘destructive spirit’ spoke ‘only by the sword’; to Schopenhauer in 1819, the Koran was a ‘wretched book’ in which he had ‘not been able to discover one single idea of value’; to De Tocqueville in 1843, Islam was ‘deadly’, ‘to be feared’ and a ‘form of decadence’”. –
Winston Churchill, wrote in 1899:
“The religion of Islam above all others was founded upon the sword … Moreover it provides incentives to slaughter, and in three continents has produced fighting breeds of men – filled with a wild and merciless fanaticismâ€.
John Quincy Adams who wrote in 1829:
“The precept of the Koran is, perpetual war against all who deny, that Mahomet is the prophet of God. The vanquished may purchase their lives, by the payment of tribute; the victorious may be appeased by a false and delusive promise of peace; and the faithful follower of the prophet, may submit to the imperious necessities of defeat: but the command to propagate the Moslem creed by the sword is always obligatory, when it can be made effective. The commands of the prophet may be performed alike, by fraud, or by force”.
John Wesley (1703-91) who wrote,
“Ever since the religion of Islam appeared in the world, the espousers of it…have been as wolves and tigers to all other nations, rending and tearing all that fell into their merciless paws, and grinding them with their iron teeth; that numberless cities are raised from the foundation, and only their name remaining; that many countries, which were once as the garden of God, are now a desolate wilderness; and that so many once numerous and powerful nations are vanished from the earth! Such was, and is at this day, the rage, the fury, the revenge, of these destroyers of human kind”.
Hilaire Belloc who wrote in 1938:
“Will not perhaps the temporal power of Islam return and with it the menace of an armed Mohammedan world, which will shake off the domination of Europeans — still nominally Christian — and reappear as the prime enemy of our civilization? The future always comes as a surprise, but political wisdom consists in attempting at least some partial judgment of what that surprise may be. And for my part I cannot but believe that a main unexpected thing of the future is the return of Islam”.
Bishop Fulton J Sheen who wrote in 1950:
“Today (1950), the hatred of the Moslem countries against the West is becoming hatred against Christianity itself. Although the statesmen have not yet taken it into account, there is still grave danger that the temporal power of Islam may return and, with it, the menace that it may shake off a West which has ceased to be Christian, and affirm itself as a great anti-Christian world Power”.
Patriarch Cyrus of Alexandria, while negotiating the surrender of Alexandria to the Muslims, 640 AD:
“I am afraid that God has sent these men to lay waste the world”.
Gregory Palamus of Thessalonica, 1354:
“For these impious people, hated by God and infamous, boast of having got the better of the Romans by their love of God…they live by the bow, the sword and debauchery, finding pleasure in taking slaves, devoting themselves to murder, pillage, spoil…and not only do they commit these crimes, but even — what an aberration — they believe that God approves of them. This is what I think of them, now that I know precisely about their way of life.”.
William Eaton, US Consul to Tunis, wrote in 1799:
“Considered as a nation, they are deplorably wretched, because they have no property in the soil to inspire an ambition to cultivate it. They are abject slaves to the despotism of their government, and they are humiliated by tyranny, the worst of all tyrannies, the despotism of priestcraft. They live in more solemn fear of the frowns of a bigot who has been dead and rotten above a thousand years, than of the living despot whose frown would cost them their lives…The ignorance, superstitious tradition and civil and religious tyranny, which depress the human mind here, exclude improvement of every kind…”
And how about this quote from Ayatollah Khomeini from 1942:
“Islam makes it incumbent on all adult males, provided they are not disabled and incapacitated, to prepare themselves for the conquest of [other] countries so that the writ of Islam is obeyed in every country in the world. But those who study Islamic Holy War will understand why Islam wants to conquer the whole world…. Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those [who say this] are witless. Islam says Kill all the unbelievers just as they would kill you all! Does this mean that Muslims should sit back until they are devoured by [the unbelievers] Islam says Kill them [the non-Muslims], put them to the sword and scatter [their armies]. Does this mean sitting back until [non-Muslims] overcome us Islam says Kill in the service of Allah those who may want to kill you! Does this mean that we should surrender to the enemy Islam says Whatever good there is exists thanks to the sword and in the shadow of the sword! People cannot be made obedient except with the sword! The sword is the key to Paradise, which can be opened only for Holy Warriors! There are hundreds of other [Koranic] verses and Hadiths [sayings of the Prophet] urging Muslims to value war and to fight. Does all that mean that Islam is a religion that prevents men from waging war I spit upon those foolish souls who make such a claim.†– Ayatollah Khomeini
February 19th, 2007 at 11:59 pmNow you’re just making shit up.
Comment by Nat — February 19, 2007 @ 11:54 pm
Yeah, he’s another Lou Sheldon. What a WHACKO!!!
February 19th, 2007 at 11:59 pmThe 21st Century GI Bill of Rights includes the following tenets:
Makes Health Care Accessible and Affordable for Our Veterans
• Improves veterans’ health care.
• Improves mental health for returning soldiers.
• Blocks increases in prescription drug co-payments and enrollment fees for veterans.
Provides the Benefits Our Veterans Have Earned and Deserve
• Ends the Disabled Veterans’ Tax.
• Reduces waiting times on disability claims and expands outreach to veterans.
Honors the Families of Those Who Made the Ultimate Sacrifice for our Country
• Ends the Military Families Tax.
• Increases survivor benefits for families with minor children.
Strengthens Our Support for Our Men and Women in Uniform
• Provides $1,000 Bonus for those serving in Iraq and Afghanistan.
• Ensures an adequate number of troops and adequate equipment for our troops.
• Improves military pay for senior enlisted personnel and warrant officers.
Honors Our Debt to Our Servicemen and Women
• Modernizes and enhances the GI Bill Education and Job Training Programs.
• Provides additional funds to assist homeless veterans with employment.
• Protects bonuses and special pay for the permanently injured, and continues combat pay or additional compensation for those recovering from combat injuries.
Improves Health and Education Benefits for Our National Guard/Reservists
• Expands military health care (TRICARE) for National Guard/Reservists.
• Protects the income of activated National Guard/Reservists.
• Ensures recruitment incentives and bonuses for National Guard/Reservists and improve educational benefits.
February 20th, 2007 at 12:00 amVince P
I hope you realize that your singling out of Islam as inherently different and as a danger to Western society is eerily similar, to that of the NSDAP rhetoric against a Jewish secular conspiracy.
February 20th, 2007 at 12:00 amI believe right wing extremists are trying to kill me…. look, Timothy McVeigh bombed a federal building.
Comment by AshenShard — February 19, 2007 @ 11:52 pm
The majority of murders in this country are done by Christians too. We have to guard against the Christians.
February 20th, 2007 at 12:00 amNat: By all means , ask whoever you like if what I said is true (even though I did phrase it rather impolitely, the story is true)
what you have read is the truth.
Happy?
February 20th, 2007 at 12:01 amA human life can be both invalueable and valueless. Consider the two extremes of George Washington and George W. Bush.
February 20th, 2007 at 12:03 amIslam is continution of Christianity and Judaism. A true muslim has to belive in all three books, the Bible, the Torah and The Koran and all the reveal books(104 total) and all the past prophets/messengers of GOD and there teaching. It is specically directed in the Koran. These quotes are taken out of context.
February 20th, 2007 at 12:03 amNat .. are all these people liars too? Comment by Vince P — February 19, 2007 @ 11:59 pm
Yes. Conservative ignorant fools like yourself exist in every generation. Woo hoo, surprised, skippy?
February 20th, 2007 at 12:03 amVince P.
The 10 commandments are the basis of Christianity, and those are followed above anything else stated in the bible. Those are the most important laws of the Christian religion.
Now, let me draw your attention to the five pillars of Islam:
http://www.acs.ucalgary.ca/~elsegal/I_Transp/IO5_FivePillars.html
go ahead and read. Tell me if you find anything that mentions war or Jihad in them.
February 20th, 2007 at 12:03 amVince P, how do you reconcile being an Orthodox Jew, with being Gay? Does your family know you’re going to hell?
February 20th, 2007 at 12:04 am• Ensures recruitment incentives and bonuses for National Guard/Reservists and improve educational benefits.
Comment by rachel rj kinnardi
lemme guess your a lobbyist for Exxon.
How about mandatory college geek enlistment?
February 20th, 2007 at 12:04 am“Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those [who say this] are witless. Islam says Kill all the unbelievers just as they would kill you all! Does this mean that Muslims should sit back until they are devoured by [the unbelievers] Islam says Kill them [the non-Muslims], put them to the sword and scatter [their armies]. Does this mean sitting back until [non-Muslims] overcome us Islam says Kill in the service of Allah those who may want to kill you! Does this mean that we should surrender to the enemy Islam says Whatever good there is exists thanks to the sword and in the shadow of the sword! People cannot be made obedient except with the sword! The sword is the key to Paradise, which can be opened only for Holy Warriors! There are hundreds of other [Koranic] verses and Hadiths [sayings of the Prophet] urging Muslims to value war and to fight. Does all that mean that Islam is a religion that prevents men from waging war I spit upon those foolish souls who make such a claim.†– Ayatollah Khomeini
February 20th, 2007 at 12:05 amNat: By all means , ask whoever you like if what I said is true (even though I did phrase it rather impolitely, the story is true)
Comment by Vince P — February 19, 2007 @ 11:57 pm
They probably are true. What I’m telling you is that the Koran tells the story of Muslims at a time when they were being persecuted by Jews and Christians and Arabs who did not agree with the monotheistic aspect of Islam. All those quotes you posted may be taken out of context.
February 20th, 2007 at 12:05 am#188 Nat
And men, oh my god, I may want to murder myself! I’ll have to keep a close watch on me from now on.
February 20th, 2007 at 12:05 amAshen: I quoted directly from the holy texts… I dont think most Muslim give a whip about what a Canadian university says. lol.
You’re more than willing to ignore the SCREENS-FULL of stuff I posted because of your inablity to be objective.
February 20th, 2007 at 12:07 amI wonder… Considering that the largest strides in the equalization of women, the removal of slavery, the removal of ethnic inequality, and other injustices have been under the auspices of the Christian Church (Look up Wilberforce, Martin Luther King, and others), I like the comparison between Christians and Muslims. “Beat them softly” I think is the idea in the Islamic church.
Oh, and also, Muhammad (pbuh) also said that believers “Of the book” who did not immediately accept Islam were heretics and should be purged.
Oh, Judaism only received one approval to wage aggressive war: To carve out Israel. Other than that, I think they have been fighting for survival ever since.
Oh, and the Crusades were based on population pressure, and a pope who was a pawn of secular powers gave it a religious tinge. When debating these things, a cursory knowledge of history is really useful.
February 20th, 2007 at 12:09 amNat .. are all these people liars too?
Comment by Vince P — February 19, 2007 @ 11:59 pm
Most of what you wrote there is opinion.
February 20th, 2007 at 12:09 amAnd Vince P continues his uncomfortable silence whenever I point out that all the evils he points to in Islam are just as present in Judaism and Christianity.
Well, Vince, I’ve got to get some shut-eye. Some of us have jobs. While I’m sure you’ll start replying as soon as you’re sure I’m no longer around, I’m also sure that my previous posts speak well enough to effectively end this debate.
Good night, all…and don’t be too hard on Vince…he clearly can’t help himself.
February 20th, 2007 at 12:10 amYou’re more than willing to ignore the SCREENS-FULL of stuff I posted because of your inablity to be objective.
Comment by Vince P — February 20, 2007 @ 12:07 am
A screen full of shit, is still shit, dumbass.
February 20th, 2007 at 12:10 amNat: um. no. those quotes ARE the context. How can you turn your brain off and say that. Really?… Get past your politics.. how can you possibly think that that TINY PORTION I posted is not plainly saying what it is saying. And a tiny portion is what it is.
The Koran is not written in a narrative form. it’s a jumbled disaster.. no paragraph flows into the next, it is entirely like a stream of conscienceness style. That’s why the Hadith were created.. to make sense of the Koran. That’s why the EXAMPLE of mohemmed is so important.. if theywere to rely only on the Koran , no one would know what to do because it’s completely incoherent.
February 20th, 2007 at 12:10 amYou’re more than willing to ignore the SCREENS-FULL of stuff I posted because of your inablity to be objective.
Comment by Vince P
To be objective, don’t post objective material. ARE YOU VINCE AN OBJECT?
February 20th, 2007 at 12:11 amTrip: When you’re ready to ask me on-topic questions , I’ll answer. Otherwise i’m not changing the subject.
February 20th, 2007 at 12:11 amMost of what you wrote there is opinion.
Comment by Nat — February 20, 2007 @ 12:09 am
Uninformed, ignorant opinions of a raging paranoid fool.
Most of this crap is leftover propaganda from the Crusades. Which, dear loser Vince doesn’t know was trumped up by the Pope to keep the lords and kings of europe from being too powerful and killing each other.
Conservatives have always been Idiots.
February 20th, 2007 at 12:12 am#197 Vince P.
That was just one link out of many that say the same thing. If you cannot realize that, then you prove your inability for rational thought. And you prove that inability again and again since you refuse to answer any other questions that do not pertain to Islam or that fully refute what you are saying. You are a broken record, that just keeps repeating the same 2 second track. Get a good education, and maybe, just maybe you will achieve the ability of objectivity, critical and analytical thinking that I and most others here have.
February 20th, 2007 at 12:14 amIt is quite sad, that you are deluded into thinking that you have come here on a crusade to show that Muslims are a public enemy, and that you are winning against us. But truly, you are just allowing yourself to be used as a punching bag, by minds whose level of thought and knowledge you cannot even begin to comprehend.
Berkeley Non-Conformist :
What you say is true except for the Crusades. They were a response to the brutal Jihad newly formed Islam was waging on Byzantium and the conquest of Roman Palestine.
This is what led to the European response called the First Crusade:
…the whole Gaza region up to Cesarea was sacked and devastated in the campaign of 634. Four thousand Jewish, Christian, and Samaritan peasants who defended their land were massacred. The villages of the Negev were pillaged…Towns such as Jerusalem, Gaza, Jaffa, Cesarea, Nablus, and Beth Shean were isolated and closed their gates. In his sermon on Christmas day 634, the patriarch of Jerusalem, Sophronius, lamented…that the Christians were being forcibly kept in Jerusalem: ‘…chained and nailed by fear of the Saracens,’ whose ‘savage, barbarous and bloody sword’ kept them locked up in the town…Sophronius, in his sermon on the Day of the Epiphany 636, bewailed the destruction of the churches and monasteries, the sacked towns, the fields laid waste, the villages burned down by the nomads who were overrunning the country. In a letter the same year to Sergius, the patriarch of Constantinople, he mentions the ravages wrought by the Arabs. Thousands of people perished in 639, victims of the famine and plague that resulted from these destructions. 40
February 20th, 2007 at 12:14 amAccording to [the Muslim chronicler] Baladhuri (d. 892 C.E.), 40,000 Jews lived in Caesarea alone at the Arab conquest, after which all trace of them is lost… 41
Muslim Turcoman rule of Palestine for the nearly three decades just prior to the Crusades (1071-1099 C.E.) was characterized by such unrelenting warfare and devastation, that an imminent “End of Days†atmosphere was engendered. 63 For example, Gil describes one of Atsiz b. Awaq’s jihad campaigns in Syro-Palestine at around 1077 C.E.:
Then Atsiz advanced on Jerusalem from Damascus, placed the city under siege, and promised its inhabitants the aman; on this basis, the inhabitants opened the gates of the city to him. Atsiz prevailed over Jerusalem, completely ignoring his promise of aman, and went on a rampage. He slaughtered 3,000 people there…He also conducted campaigns of annihilation against Ramla, until all its people had fled, and against Gaza, where he murdered the entire population. He likewise massacred people in al-’Arish and elsewhere and wrought endless havoc in Damascus, where only 3,000 of the original 500,000 inhabitants had remained, due to starvation and scarcity. Jaffa, too, was attacked, and its governor…fled from the town to Tyre, together with all the city’s inhabitants, while the walls of Jaffa were destroyed on Atsiz’ orders. 64
A contemporary Russian chronicle cited by Gil indicates that the Turcomans, “…destroyed and desolated the cities and the villages from Antioch to Jerusalem. They murdered, took captive, pillaged, set on fire; they destroyed churches and monasteriesâ€.65
Gil notes that these observations are confirmed by Geniza documents, describing how, “…the Turcoman occupation denoted terrible calamities, such as the taking captive of the people of Ramla, the cutting off of roads, the obduracy of the commanders, the aura of anxiety and panic, and so on.†66 He continues, “We do not know what Atsiz’ attitude was to the Jewish population in 1078, during the cruel suppression of the uprisings and the destruction of towns, but the fact that from this date onwards, we barely find letters from Palestine (apart from Ascalon and Caesarea) in the Geniza documents, speaks for itself.â€
Vince Putz, is just posting propaganda from David HorseShitoWitless. Vince is nothing more than a stupid David Duke-alike, white sheet wearing paranoid freak.
February 20th, 2007 at 12:15 amHere is muslim combining all religion teaching.
February 20th, 2007 at 12:16 amhttp://www.centrum-universel.com/universe.htm
Trip: When you’re ready to ask me on-topic questions , I’ll answer. Otherwise i’m not changing the subject. Comment by Vince P — February 20, 2007 @ 12:11 am
Oh, brainless fool, you’ve never asked an on-topic question. That would require you have enough wit to know what an on-topic question is. And there’s no proof of that capacity, loser freak.
February 20th, 2007 at 12:16 amThe Koran is not written in a narrative form. it’s a jumbled disaster.. no paragraph flows into the next, it is entirely like a stream of conscienceness style. That’s why the Hadith were created.. to make sense of the Koran. That’s why the EXAMPLE of mohemmed is so important.. if theywere to rely only on the Koran , no one would know what to do because it’s completely incoherent.
Comment by Vince P — February 20, 2007 @ 12:10 am
===============
There is a flow to the Koran ask any Muslim. The Hadith was written a couple of centuries after the Koran and it has many errors and misinterpretations.
February 20th, 2007 at 12:22 amOther than McVeigh and Eric Rudolph, where are all the recent examples of Christians killing non-believers. Are there Christian honor killings? Christians are intolerant of gay people, but do they jail them? If Christians disagree with Muslim leadership, do they threaten to kill them. If someone draws an unflattering cartoon of Christ, do Christians riot and make death threats. How many priests do you know that are calling for a holy war?
I’m not Christian, but I can see the difference in tolerance. Of course, most Muslims are peaceful (however, silent), but there are definitely enough radicals to give those paying attention, pause. If you can’t see it, you’re blind.
February 20th, 2007 at 12:22 amwhy do you confuse yourself vince with word long past? They are meant for you to climb above, to think for yourself, do not stand in the NE corner, use those words and fly on your own.
Damnit man break your entropy.
February 20th, 2007 at 12:22 amkaes: maybe you can help me wiht this… why are some Muslims today stating that there were never Jewish temples on the Temple Mount / Al Aqsa ?
February 20th, 2007 at 12:23 amVince break free of this plane, and only thru thought, unbiased and true, can you do that.
DO YOU HEAR ME?
February 20th, 2007 at 12:25 am#194 – Vince P,
February 20th, 2007 at 12:25 amSo the Ayatollah Khomeini wrote the Qaran. That takes real talent! Composing a treatsis 1498 years before you were born takes tremendous hindsight.
• Ensures recruitment incentives and bonuses for National Guard/Reservists and improve educational benefits.
Comment by rachel rj kinnardi
lemme guess your a lobbyist for Exxon.
How about mandatory college geek enlistment?
Comment by Rache Chickennardi — February 20, 2007 @ 12:04 am
——————————————————————-
Are you insinuating that we have absolutely NO National Defense Force? This keeps the National Recruitment levels up and nothing more. As has been the practice for the last 40 years asswipe.
Nice attempt at jacking my name you little squid sucker.
signed,
Lil Miss Crayfish Pants.
February 20th, 2007 at 12:26 amwhy are some Muslims today stating that there were never Jewish temples on the Temple Mount / Al Aqsa ?
Comment by Vince P
Vince, do not engrain yourself with the past, or you shall repeat it. Stand upon thy shoulders given you. Lead and do not follow.
February 20th, 2007 at 12:27 amHow many of you have realized this:
Mein Kampf = My Struggle = Jihad
February 20th, 2007 at 12:28 amOther than McVeigh and Eric Rudolph, where are all the recent examples of Christians killing non-believers. Are there Christian honor killings? Christians are intolerant of gay people, but do they jail them? If Christians disagree with Muslim leadership, do they threaten to kill them. If someone draws an unflattering cartoon of Christ, do Christians riot and make death threats. How many priests do you know that are calling for a holy war?
Comment by paul — February 20, 2007 @ 12:22 am
-A lot of that crap was being done here 40 to 50 years ago by Christians against Blacks.
-Liberals have restrained Christians in the West and separated Church and State.
February 20th, 2007 at 12:30 am#211 paul
most Christians are peaceful and tolerant, but silent. While the fundies loudly proclaim their intolerance and are prone to violence. If our country was as unstable as the middle east, you could bet that these people would be just as bad as the fundamentalist Muslims.
February 20th, 2007 at 12:30 amIt is not only religion, but circumstance that leads to violence. When you have a mass of people who live in impoverished conditions, that is a breeding ground for violence. It just happens that these areas populated by Muslims are disproportionately impoverished due to our theft of their resources. We are, sadly, also trending towards a state of mass poverty due to greed.
Are you insinuating that we have absolutely NO National Defense Force? This keeps the National Recruitment levels up and nothing more. As has been the practice for the last 40 years asswipe.
Explain to me then keeping troops? Or our low level of recruitment?
We have a defense, no thanks to you collegiate asswipes, who BTW wont serve.
February 20th, 2007 at 12:31 amhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Aqsa_Mosque has the history. I don’t know what some muslims are saying.
February 20th, 2007 at 12:31 amashen must be blind to the constant threats of violence and expressions of angers by the people here and will raise phantoms of the past to demonize other americans.
February 20th, 2007 at 12:32 amHow many AEI collegiate asswipes have served?
Eh Rachel?
February 20th, 2007 at 12:32 amMein Kampf = My Struggle = Jihad
Comment by Vince P — February 20, 2007 @ 12:28 am
= Vince P
February 20th, 2007 at 12:33 am218 Vince P
actually, as I stated earlier, your rhetoric is quite close to that of Hitler. He claimed that the Jews were inherently different in their beliefs and thus a threat to Western civilization. Do you idolize him Vince? Do you have SS on your arm? Are you ready to take innocent Muslims, put them in ovens, and cremate them alive for their religious beliefs?
February 20th, 2007 at 12:33 amHow many of you have realized this:
Mein Kampf = My Struggle = Jihad
Comment by Vince P — February 20, 2007 @ 12:28 am
Bush has refered to Iraq as a struggle so:
Mein Kampf = My Struggle = Jihad = Bush
February 20th, 2007 at 12:33 amRachel Chickennardi = PISS SOAKED TROLL USING MY NAME.
Rachel teen Hoodlum = PISS SOAKED TROLL USING MY NAME.
PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO IT
February 20th, 2007 at 12:34 amkaes: maybe you can help me wiht this… why are some Muslims today stating that there were never Jewish temples on the Temple Mount / Al Aqsa ? Comment by Vince P — February 20, 2007 @ 12:23 am
Probably for the same reason, you make all of the claims you do about muslims. See we progressives know that there are radicals in every group – what you’re clueless about is that you’re one of them!
February 20th, 2007 at 12:34 amWow. Vince has really gone to town on this thread. He is determined to prove that….well, I’m not sure what he is trying to prove. Something about a really bad religion that is a really big threat for some reason.
February 20th, 2007 at 12:35 amHow many of you have realized this:
Mein Kampf = My Struggle = Jihad
Comment by Vince P
Your a cold warrior idiot who lives in pastland and whose people are birghter than you.
February 20th, 2007 at 12:35 amTell me Vince P, what do you think about the Jewish Bible Chronicling how stole the land of Judea by killing all of the inhabitants there?
You’re such a funny little hypocrite.
February 20th, 2007 at 12:36 am#226 Vince P
I am aware of violence, and balance everything that i see, hear and read. You crap your pants at rumor and innuendo.
February 20th, 2007 at 12:36 am#218 – Vince P,
February 20th, 2007 at 12:37 amHow many have realized this – Bush = Disaster?
ashen must be blind to the constant threats of violence and expressions of angers by the people here and will raise phantoms of the past to demonize other americans. Comment by Vince P — February 20, 2007 @ 12:32 am
Says the freak that demonizes Islam. Sorry Vince P, but we’re aware of the constant threats and dangers of violence from religious radicals. You’re here daily to remind us what a lunatic element you belong to. You think you’re fighting Islamic radicals, but all you’re doing is mirroring their extremism. Ironic!
February 20th, 2007 at 12:37 amI am aware of violence, and balance everything that i see, hear and read. You crap your pants at rumor and innuendo. Comment by AshenShard — February 20, 2007 @ 12:36 am
Maybe his dildo is too big, that could explain his incontinence.
February 20th, 2007 at 12:38 amkaes: ok.. I was under the impression you had something of value to add about the muslim world today.
February 20th, 2007 at 12:39 amI WANT TO KNOW HOW MANY COLLEGIATE PEOPLE HAVE SERVED AND WHY NOT?
Is that a question that cannot, nor willnot, be answered?
Tell me Rachel, who’s your daddy? America? Why?
February 20th, 2007 at 12:39 amYou’re so birght it hurts.
February 20th, 2007 at 12:40 am40 to 50 years ago
you’re making my point.
Liberals have restrained Christians in the West and separated Church and State.
that’s two. Thanks for the help. It’s good we have a seperation of church and state. By omission you recognize it’s not present in the middle east. You see religious influence here as intrusive, but you are unwilling or unable to recognize significantly more intolerant religious influence in the middle east, that is now, profoundly affecting the whole world. Again, where are the moderate Muslims to provide the restraint to their radical brothers.
February 20th, 2007 at 12:41 am#235 Valiant
I find it ironic that the Bush regime, and the right wing nuts that support it, are calling other right wing nuts from other countries crazy and evil. I’d be quite content to let them destroy themselves if they didn’t have control of nukes.
February 20th, 2007 at 12:41 amRachel Chickennardi = PISS SOAKED TROLL USING MY NAME.
Rachel teen Hoodlum = PISS SOAKED TROLL USING MY NAME.
PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO IT
February 20th, 2007 at 12:42 amYou’re so birght it hurts.
Comment by Vince P — February 20, 2007 @ 12:40 am
You’re so dull, it must have hurt your mother to have given birth to you.
February 20th, 2007 at 12:43 amYou’re so birght it hurts.
Comment by Vince P —
you cannot even spell bright, much less acknowledge it.
February 20th, 2007 at 12:44 amIt’s good we have a seperation of church and state -Paul
Thank you Paul
February 20th, 2007 at 12:46 amRachel Chickennardi = PISS SOAKED TROLL USING MY NAME.
Rachel teen Hoodlum = PISS SOAKED TROLL USING MY NAME.
PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO IT
The social ills of this country come into play in recruiting levels, I do not deny this.
Whether left or right is of no consequence here, fact is, we have to have a National Defense Force capable of meeting our established defense needs.
I am not talking about this fu*cking war either. I am talking peacetime levels.
I am in no way insinuating that the military be turned into a recruiting tool for any class, race, creed et al.
You can “read” whatever you like into it with your strawman, but the issue I am addressing is “peacetime readiness levels with a normal fu*cking President in Charge.”
Okay?
February 20th, 2007 at 12:47 amAgain, where are the moderate Muslims to provide the restraint to their radical brothers. Comment by paul — February 20, 2007 @ 12:41 am
Do you propose that your ignorance of these influences mean they do not exist?
A better question, is where are all of the moderate Christians and Jews to provide restraint for their radical brothers? Just look at the Christian Right in this country, that largely put Bush in office. If it weren’t for we ’secular humanists’, the Christian/Jewish taliban like yourself would turn the US into Afghanistan.
February 20th, 2007 at 12:47 amyou cannot even spell bright, much less acknowledge it.
Comment by Rache Chickennardi — February 20, 2007 @ 12:44 am
But he copies and pastes, just like a David HorseShitoWitz zombie wingnut.
February 20th, 2007 at 12:49 amRachel Chickennardi = PISS SOAKED TROLL USING MY NAME.
Rachel teen Hoodlum = PISS SOAKED TROLL USING MY NAME.
PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO IT
The social ills of this country come into play in recruiting levels, I do not deny this.
Whether left or right is of no consequence here, fact is, we have to have a National Defense Force capable of meeting our established defense needs.
I am not talking about this fu*cking war either. I am talking peacetime levels.
I am in no way insinuating that the military be turned into a recruiting tool for any class, race, creed et al.
You can “read” whatever you like into it with your strawman, but the issue I am addressing is “peacetime readiness levels with a normal fu*cking President in Charge.”
Okay?
February 20th, 2007 at 12:49 amRache Chickennardi.
It’s good we have a seperation of church and state -Paul
Thank you Paul
You’re welcome. Now, with that in mind, are you beginning to understand the threat to liberty from Islamic theocracy and the folly of surrendering Iraq to it?
February 20th, 2007 at 12:50 amt’s good we have a seperation of church and state -Paul
For if we didn’t we would not seperate one from another we shan’t be able to fulfill our cause.
We must hold up the light.
February 20th, 2007 at 12:50 am40 to 50 years ago
you’re making my point.
I think that’s fairly recent and it still goes on today.
that’s two. Thanks for the help. It’s good we have a seperation of church and state. By omission you recognize it’s not present in the middle east. You see religious influence here as intrusive, but you are unwilling or unable to recognize significantly more intolerant religious influence in the middle east, that is now, profoundly affecting the whole world. Again, where are the moderate Muslims to provide the restraint to their radical brothers.
Comment by paul — February 20, 2007 @ 12:41 am
If we were all like you, the United States would be the Christian version of the Middle East. Look how much power the Christian Right has gained in the past twenty years. We’re moving in that direction because of people like you.
Also, there were a lot of churches advocating the attack and invasion of a Muslim nation: Iraq.
February 20th, 2007 at 12:51 amYou are not upholding the light for mankind Rachel
February 20th, 2007 at 12:53 amA better question, is where are all of the moderate Christians and Jews to provide restraint for their radical brothers? Just look at the Christian Right in this country, that largely put Bush in office. If it weren’t for we ’secular humanists’, the Christian/Jewish taliban like yourself would turn the US into Afghanistan.
Comment by ValiantVenusGrewFromUranus — February 20, 2007 @ 12:47 am
And a lot of them are pushing for the destruction of the Middle East and Muslims.
February 20th, 2007 at 12:53 amHere are maps of most attacks done in service of Jihad since 2003.
http://vincep312.home.comcast.net/attacks.html
In the name of balance, please supply anything that shows the extent of killing that is done in the name of Jesus.
Also.. these here are the rule book the taliban have issued this past December.. Contrast these rules to the quotes I listed above.. and see how they following the religiouos principles thier holy texts proscribe.
Rules for mujahideen. Each mujahid is obliged to obey the following rules:
1. A person with responsibility (only commanders) is allowed to give an invitation to those Afghans who are supporting infidels to join the way of the true Islam.
2. To those who leave the infidels we will grant security for him and his property. But if he has some personal dispute, or somebody has some claim against him, he has to face our judiciary system.
3. Each mujahideen who is in contact with supporters of the current regime and who invites them to join the true Islam has to inform his commander.
4. Those who accept the invitation to join the true Islam but aren’t loyal and become traitors will lose their contract with us and will not be protected by us. There is no way to give them another chance.
5. A mujahid who kills an infidel who has joined the mujahideen’s side will lose our support. Islamic law should punish him.
6. If a group leader (or any ordinary Talib) wants to leave his district to join a unit in another district he is allowed, but he should get permission from his senior leader.
7. If a mujahid captures any foreign invader without the permission of the movement leader he mustn’t exchange the prisoner with another prisoner or for money.
More here:
http://counterterrorismblog.org/site-resources/images/DickeysTalibanRules.doc
February 20th, 2007 at 12:54 amYou’re welcome. Now, with that in mind, are you beginning to understand the threat to liberty from Islamic theocracy and the folly of surrendering Iraq to it?
Comment by paul — February 20, 2007 @ 12:50 am
Again, you’re being paranoid.
February 20th, 2007 at 12:54 amThe Seperation of Church and State is one of the things that makes the US a successful country.
February 20th, 2007 at 12:56 amYou’re welcome. Now, with that in mind, are you beginning to understand the threat to liberty from Islamic theocracy and the folly of surrendering Iraq to it? Comment by paul — February 20, 2007 @ 12:50 am
The problem with you conservatives, is that you jump from point A to point Z, without even realize anything between them exists, or that maybe you’re stepping backwards into Z yourself because your actions are ill informed and incompetent.
In otherwords, don’t be stupid enough to think that your actions will yield the results you want. And even more clearly, don’t be stupid enough to think that occupying a country of mostly Muslims will do anything but create more violent outcomes. So paul, if you want to avoid radical Islam, you’re doing everything wrong. Like a typical fool.
February 20th, 2007 at 12:56 amWhat color is thought?
February 20th, 2007 at 12:56 amValiantVenusGrewFromUranus. Why are you so afraid to ask moderate Muslims to be accountable for their religion. You don’t hesitate to question Christians? You either feel that Muslims are incapable of responsibility or you’re concerned about being labeled a bigot. Think about it though, Christian/Muslim, what’s the difference? Why the special consideration for Muslims? I’m sure it is not your intent, but it hints of condesention.
February 20th, 2007 at 12:57 amValiantVenusGrewFromUranus. Why are you so afraid to ask moderate Muslims to be accountable for their religion. Comment by paul — February 20, 2007 @ 12:57 am
Why do you presume I don’t?
You don’t hesitate to question Christians? Comment by paul — February 20, 2007 @ 12:57 am
Actually you hesitate to question Christians. Your argument is that the moderate muslims should stop the radicals, but yet you claim to be a moderate Christian/Jew that doesn’t stop radicals in your own religion.
You answered both of your own questions. I pointed out your Hypocrisy – and assumed what I would/wouldn’t do based on me pointing out your own personal hypocrisy and insanity.
You either feel that Muslims are incapable of responsibility or you’re concerned about being labeled a bigot. Comment by paul — February 20, 2007 @ 12:57 am
Who says what I do, or don’t feel, just because I point out you’re a hypocrite?
Think about it though, Christian/Muslim, what’s the difference? Comment by paul — February 20, 2007 @ 12:57 am
Why do you assume I think Christian/Muslim/Jew are any different?
Why the special consideration for Muslims? Comment by paul — February 20, 2007 @ 12:57 am
That question you should ask yourself.
I’m sure it is not your intent, but it hints of condesention.
Comment by paul — February 20, 2007 @ 12:57 am
Hint? Then I’m being to subtle. People like you that scream about Islam are 99% of the time hypocrites that deserve condescension.
I’m not singling any religion out, that’s your projection skippy. It’s you that’s doing this.
February 20th, 2007 at 1:02 amNat. If we were all like you, the United States would be the Christian version of the Middle East.
Hate to break it to you, but I’m not a Christian. And if it was up to me, I’d institute the Burkas, but they would be made of that clear, plastic material.
February 20th, 2007 at 1:03 amYou either feel that Muslims are incapable of responsibility or you’re concerned about being labeled a bigot. Think about it though, Christian/Muslim, what’s the difference? Why the special consideration for Muslims? I’m sure it is not your intent, but it hints of condesention.
Comment by paul
You Paul, will be enlightened. Do not fear it.
sleep well my friend
February 20th, 2007 at 1:03 amThe Seperation of Church and State is one of the things that makes the US a successful country. Comment by Vince P — February 20, 2007 @ 12:56 am
Yet your Christan and Jewish political movements say that this separation of Church and State is wrong. But you defend them, and attack liberals. That would make your actions, that of a fool.
February 20th, 2007 at 1:03 amIn a blunt statement that attracted some attention in Europe,1 Giuseppe Germano Bernardini, a 72-year-old Italian who is archbishop of Izmir, Turkey, wrote the Synod of European Bishops on October 13, 1999, that Muslims have a “clear program of expansion and re-conquest” of Europe. He then called on the pope to convene a special Vatican meeting to find a common strategy toward Muslims living in Christian countries. This statement raised eyebrows because it so starkly contradicts the official church position.—The Editors
I have been living for the past forty-two years in Turkey, a country 99.9 percent Muslim, and I am the Archbishop of Izmir—Asia Minor—for the past sixteen years. The theme of my intervention is therefore obvious: the problem of Islam in Europe today and in the future … .
My intervention is to make a humble request of the Holy Father, above all. To be brief and clear, first I will mention three cases that, due to their provenance, I believe to be true.
1. During an official meeting on Islamic-Christian dialogue, an authoritative Muslim person, speaking to the Christians participating, at one point said very calmly and assuredly: “Thanks to your democratic laws we will invade you; thanks to our religious laws we will dominate you.”
This is to be believed because the “dominion” has already begun with the “petrol-dollars,” used not to create work in the poor North African or Middle Eastern countries, but to build mosques and cultural centers in Christian countries with Islamic immigration, including Rome, the center of Christianity. How can we ignore in all of this a clear program of expansion and re-conquest?
2. During another Islamic-Christian meeting, always organized by Christians, a Christian participant publicly asked the Muslims present why they did not organize at least once a meeting of this kind. The Muslim authority present answered the following words: “Why should we? You have nothing to teach us and we have nothing to learn.”
A dialogue among deaf persons? It is a fact that terms such as “dialogue,” “justice,” “reciprocity,” or concepts such as “rights of man,” “democracy,” have a completely different meaning for the Muslim than for us. But I believe this to be recognized and admitted by all, by now.
3. In a Catholic monastery in Jerusalem there was and perhaps still is a Muslim Arab servant. An honest and gentle person, he was respected greatly by the religious who in turn were respected by him. One day, he sadly told them: “Our chiefs have met and have decided that all the ‘infidels’ must be killed, but do not fear because I will kill you without making you suffer.”
We are all aware that we must distinguish between the fanatic and violent minority from the tranquil and honest majority, but this, at an order given in the name of Allah or the Qur’an, will always march compact and without hesitations. Anyway, history teaches us that the secure minorities always manage to impose themselves over the renouncing and silent majority.
It would be naive to underestimate or, worse yet, smile on the three cases I have referred to; I feel that their dramatic teaching must be reflected upon.
This is not pessimism on my part, despite the appearance. The Christian cannot be pessimistic because Christ is Risen and Alive; He is God, as opposed to all other prophets or those calling themselves such. The final victory will be Christ’s, but God’s times may be long, and often are. He is patient and waits for the conversion of sinners: in the meantime He invites the Church to organize herself and to work to quicken the coming of His Kingdom.
And now I would like to make a serious proposal to the Holy Father: to organize as soon as possible, if not a Synod, at least a Symposium of Bishops and operators in the pastoral ministry for immigrants, with particular reference to the Islamic ones, widening the scope to the Reformed and Orthodox Churches … .
The symposium could be useful to deepen in a collegial way the problem of the Islamic people in Christian countries, and thus find a common strategy to face it and resolve it in a Christian and objective way. We must agree on the principles, even if their applications will vary depending on the places and the persons. Nothing is worse than disagreement on principles!
I end this exhortation, suggested to me by experience: do not allow the Muslim to ever use a Catholic Church for their cult, because this would be, in their eyes, the certain proof of our apostasy.
1 For example, see Philip Pullella, “Bishop at Vatican synod in broadside against Islam,” Reuters, Oct. 13., 1999, and “Bishop: Islam Expanding Conquests,” Associated Press, Oct. 13, 1999.
February 20th, 2007 at 1:04 amPoor Vince is such a whack job, he actually has a personal server to host his hate speech!!! Vince, you’re a whack job.
February 20th, 2007 at 1:05 amCondescension towards Muslims that you feel are incapable of the criticism.
February 20th, 2007 at 1:06 amWhy are you so afraid to ask moderate Muslims to be accountable for their religion. You don’t hesitate to question Christians? —paul
I question all religions, because I do not see one religion that has it’s hands free of innocent blood. That includes Christianity.
February 20th, 2007 at 1:06 amReligion is the primary force behind most of the blood shed throughout history.
For organizations supposed to represent God, they all have awfully bloody
hoofprints,err footprints, from wading through the blood of innocents.Also.. these here are the rule book the taliban have issued this past December.. Contrast these rules to the quotes I listed above.. and see how they following the religiouos principles thier holy texts proscribe.
Comment by Vince P — February 20, 2007 @ 12:54 am
Bush has come up with this “War on Terror” and they’re responding to it. Bush is giving these people way too much power.
February 20th, 2007 at 1:06 amCondescension towards Muslims that you feel are incapable of the criticism. Comment by paul — February 20, 2007 @ 1:06 am
Or ascension of Jews and Christians on your part that you feel shouldn’t be held to the same criticism?
So paul, why haven’t you stopped the radicals in your religion from preaching hate, including against Islam?
If you can’t stop your fellow Christians and Jews, do you expect Islam to be held by a different Standard?
February 20th, 2007 at 1:09 amCondescension towards Muslims that you feel are incapable of the criticism. Comment by paul — February 20, 2007 @ 1:06 am
Can you ever think for yourself paul? Your friend valiant venus was peddling this same stupid talking point last week. You GOP Gestapo really are completely incapable of an original thought aren’t you?
February 20th, 2007 at 1:11 amWayne. I knew we could find some agreement.
February 20th, 2007 at 1:13 amThe number, Vince is 3, that of the lord, the number 6 is of man.
3 sixes is satan 6 threes however is me. Get it?
18 the Chi the big X the Tau, the circle of life. The Adom.
It sucks to be me, I grant you this. Do not toy with me.
Ya hear?
February 20th, 2007 at 1:13 amWayne. I knew we could find some agreement.
Comment by paul — February 20, 2007 @ 1:13 am
What common ground is that? Your hatred seems vented entirely at Islamic fundamentalists, while ignoring the Christian and Jewish fundamentalists in this country that want to destroy our constitution. A threat on our constitution is real, the threat in Iraq, is propaganda, and your bigotry and ignorance.
February 20th, 2007 at 1:15 amNotice that priest’s letter to the pope was in the 1990s… this is from now:
Spanish Muslims said on Tuesday they had appealed to the pope to be allowed to prostrate themselves in worship in Cordoba Cathedral, which was built as a mosque during Spain’s centuries of Islamic rule.
In a letter to Pope Benedict XVI, Spain’s Islamic Board said senior Spanish Catholic clergy had rejected requests for Muslims to be allowed to prostrate themselves inside the Cathedral, which was converted into a church in the 13th century.
No one at Spain’s Catholic Bishops Conference was immediately available for comment, but earlier in December it issued a news release stating it “did not recommend†Muslims prayed in the Cathedral.
In the communique, quoted by newspaper ABC, it added that it was not prepared to negotiate the building’s shared use with other faiths.
‘Reactionary elements’
Security guards often stop Muslim worshippers from praying inside the old Mosque, said the board’s general secretary, Mansur Escudero, who complained elements of the Roman Catholic Church felt threatened by Spain’s growing Muslim population.
“There are reactionary elements within the Catholic Church, and when they hear about the construction of a mosque, or Muslim teachings in state schools, or about veils, they see it as a sign we are growing and they oppose it,†he told Reuters.
Mansur said Muslims came from around the world to see Cordoba’s Cathedral, still known as the Cathedral-Mosque and built when much of Spain was the Moorish territory of Al-Andalus, a major center of Islamic thought and architecture.
Spain’s last Muslim territory fell with the conquest of Granada in 1492 after almost eight centuries of presence.
The vast majority of Spaniards still describe themselves as Catholics, although church-going has fallen off in recent years. But more than a million of Spain’s 44 million people are now Muslims, mainly recently arrived immigrants from North Africa.
“What we wanted was not to take over that holy place, but to create in it, together with you and other faiths, an ecumenical space unique in the world which would have been of great significance in bringing peace to humanity,†the letter said.
February 20th, 2007 at 1:17 amignoring the Christian and Jewish fundamentalists in this country that want to destroy our constitution. A threat on our constitution is real, the threat in Iraq, is propaganda, and your bigotry and ignorance.
Talk about paranoid. LOL.. Are you on drugs? DO you have any extra?
February 20th, 2007 at 1:20 amVince P sounds like one of those dumbass New Jersey rubes that’s afraid of all of the ‘brown people’ in Manhattan. Is that what you are Vince, a smelly armpit dumb jersey boy?
February 20th, 2007 at 1:20 ampreaching hate vs. blowing up buildings, honor killings, jailing/killing gays, beheadings, routine death threats, religious leaders calling for holy war, restrictions on liberties, etc.
Don’t take it from me, take it from the German who describes the same situation in Europe:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,462149-2,00.html
February 20th, 2007 at 1:21 amThe vast majority of Spaniards still describe themselves as Catholics, although church-going has fallen off in recent years. But more than a million of Spain’s 44 million people are now Muslims, mainly recently arrived immigrants from North Africa. Comment by Vince P — February 20, 2007 @ 1:17 am
It’s fallen off, because Spain was under the thumb of a Catholic Fascist dictatorship for 50 years. A RELIGIOUS dictatorship that you would have loved, if you weren’t gay (they would have killed you for that offense).
You’re such an idiot Vince.
February 20th, 2007 at 1:22 amV: you’re turning me on with that description
February 20th, 2007 at 1:23 amCondescension towards Muslims that you feel are incapable of the criticism. Comment by paul
Paul, you, as your muslims, are small minded. yeh yeh your intelligent, civilized as you are.
Now, if a force, non-human, attack you, you would dissolve that, in haste, for the protection of your planet. Ahh, but why wait for the future to come to you?
February 20th, 2007 at 1:23 amA threat on our constitution is real, the threat in Iraq, is propaganda, and your bigotry and ignorance.
Comment by ValiantVenusGrewFromUranus
Exactly, clean out your own yard, before complaining about your neighbors.
February 20th, 2007 at 1:24 amIraq was a war started on lies. It was a secular state, not islamic fundamentalist, at least before we attacked. Yet Bush presided over the formation of an Islamic Fundamentalist government there, rather than a true democracy.
heh , you forget earth is universal!
February 20th, 2007 at 1:24 ampreaching hate vs. blowing up buildings, honor killings, jailing/killing gays, beheadings, routine death threats, religious leaders calling for holy war, restrictions on liberties, etc.
Don’t take it from me, take it from the German who describes the same situation in Europe:
http://www.spiegel.de/ international/ spiegel/ 0,1518,462149-2,00.html
Comment by paul — February 20, 2007 @ 1:21 am
There no difference between that and people here arguing attack and invade Muslim nations.
February 20th, 2007 at 1:26 ampreaching hate vs. blowing up buildings, honor killings, jailing/killing gays, beheadings, routine death threats, religious leaders calling for holy war, restrictions on liberties, etc. Comment by paul — February 20, 2007 @ 1:21 am
So then, the preaching of violence against gay people, abortion clinic bombings, oklahoma city bombings, attacks on synagogues, mosques, gay bars, etc., in this country led by religious zealots are different? How?
As for restrictions on liberties, ask Vince if he can get married to the man he loves? Ask people about restricted liberties in this country, including habeas corpus and executive decrees.
Paul, I’m not saying any of those things are good, or acceptable, but you blather them out like those things only exist in muslim countries. That’s both dishonest, and disrespectful to those involved. It’s a typical dishonest act, of a dishonest man.
February 20th, 2007 at 1:26 amcmon baybees. lets look out the window, yeah!
February 20th, 2007 at 1:27 amYeah baby YEAH!!
V: you’re turning me on with that description
Comment by Vince P — February 20, 2007 @ 1:23 am
You only love yourself – thanks for the verification that you are exactly the sort of low life scum I thought you were. Let me guess, a low tech programmer – maybe dot net with some third rate company?
Sorry, but you’re so easy to profile it’s not even funny, schmuck.
February 20th, 2007 at 1:27 amSomeone asked me where I get my info from..
here’s a screenshot of some of the places I monitor
http://vincep312.home.comcast.net/feeds.jpg
February 20th, 2007 at 1:27 amLet us look beyond our earthbound material and psychological madnes and regain our freedom
behave baby!
February 20th, 2007 at 1:30 amNotice the arrogance of wayne… the Iraqis had NOTHING to do with their own failure. They aren’t people with thier own motivations or ablity to act. No , they are all puppets of bush. They have no individual conviction or desires.. everything that happens is a result of Bush.
Wayne.. why are you a racist?
February 20th, 2007 at 1:30 amWere I inclined to get married, I’m sure I can find someone that would do it. So yes, I could if i wanted to.
February 20th, 2007 at 1:32 amhere’s a screenshot of some of the places I monitor
http://vincep312.home.comcast.net/feeds.jpg
you monitor a trojan, non lifer jpeg image?
good god man are you that bored to be a kravitz?
February 20th, 2007 at 1:34 amDon’t take it from me, take it from the German who describes the same situation in Europe:– paul
and in America
Michael Marcavage: Bible tells us to execute homosexuals
And yes there is also:
Westboro Baptist Church is a U.S. religous group headed by Fred Phelps and based in Topeka, Kansas. It runs the website GodHatesFags.com[1], and GodHatesAmerica.com, and other websites expressing condemnation of homosexuals, Roman Catholics, Muslims, Jews, Sweden, Canada, and other groups.
I don’t see you condemn them
February 20th, 2007 at 1:35 amWere I inclined to get married, I’m sure I can find someone that would do it. So yes, I could if i wanted to. Comment by Vince P — February 20, 2007 @ 1:32 am
Yet your government wouldn’t recognize it, because your fellow Christians and Jews. In fact, many of your fellow Christians and Jews would probably beat and/or kill you if you were out and yourself in all aspects of your life.
So no, you couldn’t do that, you could only pretend to do so.
Yet, instead of fighting for your own rights, against religious fanatics in your own country – you obsess about Islam.
You’re completely unstable, you little whack job.
February 20th, 2007 at 1:35 amWayne.. why are you a racist?
Comment by Vince P — February 20, 2007 @ 1:30 am
You accusing others of being a bigot? NICE HYPOCRISY!!!
Are you sure you weren’t born into the Bush clan?
February 20th, 2007 at 1:36 amWere I inclined to get married, I’m sure I can find someone that would do it. So yes, I could if i wanted to.
Comment by Vince P
but after all our years of monitoring you, nothing.
February 20th, 2007 at 1:36 amValiantVenusGrewFromUranus. You won’t believe this but I am just as opposed to a Christian telling me what to do as I am a Muslim. The difference, that you won’t see, is that Christians are relatively tolerant compared to the intolerance of fundamentalist Islam. Before 9/11, I wasn’t concerned about it. Now, I see it as a threat to my liberty. I like for women to be treated as equals. I like for women to be able to show there faces and have a voice. I want to believe whatever I want. I want the freedom to speak. I want the right to vote. I want gay people to be treated like everybody else. You’re not seeing it, but fundamentalist Islam is intolerant of those things we take for granted. Societies are becoming more entwined. I believe those rights could be slowly taken from us. I don’t want that to happen.
February 20th, 2007 at 1:38 amThis guy from the UK made a great speech expanding on the theme that I noticed in Wayne’s racist, condensension toward Muslims
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNnbNVnx_nw
February 20th, 2007 at 1:38 amRache Chickennardi = Karl X
February 20th, 2007 at 1:41 amVince P is the sort of fool that thinks that people who seek restitution for oppression and bigotry through the use of courts, are responsible for the bigotry against them. Why are you so self loathing Vince P, don’t you think you deserve equal rights for being gay?
Or do you believe that you’re supposed to be a second rate citizen, and Christian/Jewish bigotry and hatred is OK? And that your fellow Gay people are responsible for all of the bigotry?
You are the sort of sicko (Mary Cheney) freak that undermines human decency. Go get some therapy child, you’re f’d up!
February 20th, 2007 at 1:41 ameverything that happens is a result of Bush.
Comment by Vince P — February 20, 2007 @ 1:30 am
You have finally come to your senses. But you should still seek professional help for your Muslim obsession.
February 20th, 2007 at 1:41 amRachel Chickennardi = PISS SOAKED TROLL USING MY NAME.
Rachel teen Hoodlum = PISS SOAKED TROLL USING MY NAME.
PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO IT
Rache Chickennardi = Karl X = Jet Mech
February 20th, 2007 at 1:43 amWestboro Baptist Church is an abomination. They are nasty, vile people. (BTW: The Phelps supported Gore for President).
No one in the mainstream support that group and they condemned for thier insanity.
February 20th, 2007 at 1:43 amWayne.. why are you a racist?
Comment by Vince P
why did your dad use your head as a hammer…. so many times?
Because, You have to be the stupidest troll I have seen in a long time.
A person afraid of brown people in turbans calls me a racist.
hahahahahaha
yeah, right…..
February 20th, 2007 at 1:44 amRache Chickennardi = Karl X
Comment by blog squealer
You imp. I am nothing you can ever conceive.
February 20th, 2007 at 1:44 amThis guy from the UK made a great speech expanding on the theme that I noticed in Wayne’s racist, condensension toward Muslims
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNnbNVnx_nw
Comment by Vince P — February 20, 2007 @ 1:38 am
You seem like a racist and a bigot. Gay people should not bigoted.
February 20th, 2007 at 1:45 amPaul: what I find distressing is that these “Progressives” have no idea who these people are:
Ayaana hirsi ali
February 20th, 2007 at 1:46 amwaffan sulton
noonie darwish
brigette gabriel
waleed shoebot
Westboro Baptist Church is an abomination. They are nasty, vile people. (BTW: The Phelps supported Gore for President).
No one in the mainstream support that group and they condemned for thier insanity.
Comment by Vince P — February 20, 2007 @ 1:43 am
These people are mainstream and they hate you.
February 20th, 2007 at 1:47 amDo you realize what a spatial fool of time/space you are? RJ?
February 20th, 2007 at 1:47 amNat: I’m trying to raise awareness of the threat to our civilization against a evil ideology. You call that bigotry?? fine I’m a bigot.
You’re a nihilist
Those people I listed above are desperate for so-called Progressives to join them in support but its obvious you want the whole culture destroyed in teh face of unrelenting jihad.
Dont dare judge me, you offend me to the core.
February 20th, 2007 at 1:48 amValiantVenusGrewFromUranus. You won’t believe this but I am just as opposed to a Christian telling me what to do as I am a Muslim. The difference, that you won’t see, is that Christians are relatively tolerant compared to the intolerance of fundamentalist Islam. Comment by paul — February 20, 2007 @ 1:38 am
Yet, your phrasing is the problem. You say ‘Christians’, compared to ‘fundamentalist Islam’.
Why don’t you write ‘Fundamentalist Christian’ compared to ‘Fundamentalist Islam’? Because they’re too much alike?
Before 9/11, I wasn’t concerned about it. Comment by paul — February 20, 2007 @ 1:38 am
And that’s exactly why the fundamentalists in this country are pushing so hard for a war without end. Hitler used the same techniques, and gullible fools like yourself fell for it in droves.
Now, I see it as a threat to my liberty. Comment by paul — February 20, 2007 @ 1:38 am
I wonder how threatened all of those millions of Iraqis feel because of our actions? Do you think they’re more or less inclined to attack us now – now matter whether peace comes there or not?
You say you don’t want your liberty threatened, but this administration consistently and unnecessarily attacks your liberty, while making the threats from radical Islam greater.
So you’re serving radical Islam, while accusing others of doing so. NICE!
I like for women to be treated as equals.Comment by paul — February 20, 2007 @ 1:38 am
Then you’re an enemy of Conservatism – especially Limbaugh. He calls women that want to be treated as equals ‘feminazis’.
I like for women to be able to show there faces and have a voice. Comment by paul — February 20, 2007 @ 1:38 am
Yet most Christian religions won’t allow those women to have voices in their own churches, and frown on them holding public office. Lets also not forget the constant double standard of talking about what dress Pelosi is wearing, instead of focusing on what she’s doing.
I want to believe whatever I want. Comment by paul — February 20, 2007 @ 1:38 am
Yet, you chose to believe propaganda. Ironic.
I want the freedom to speak. Comment by paul — February 20, 2007 @ 1:38 am
Yet you support a government that prefers propaganda, and media outlets so controlled that your speech often means nothing.
I want the right to vote. Comment by paul — February 20, 2007 @ 1:38 am
Yet you support a political party that resists measures to ensure your vote is counted.
I want gay people to be treated like everybody else. Comment by paul — February 20, 2007 @ 1:38 am
Yet you support the religion and political movements in the US that don’t want this. Nice!
You’re not seeing it, but fundamentalist Islam is intolerant of those things we take for granted. Comment by paul — February 20, 2007 @ 1:38 am
What you’re not seeing, is that fundamentalist Christianity and Judaism is also intolerant of those things – and they vote!
Societies are becoming more entwined. Comment by paul — February 20, 2007 @ 1:38 am
Yes and no.
I believe those rights could be slowly taken from us. Comment by paul — February 20, 2007 @ 1:38 am
They already are being taken away from us, because of people like you that are too obsessed with Islam, and Israel.
I don’t want that to happen.
Comment by paul — February 20, 2007 @ 1:38 am
Then become a progressive, because the things you support are all what’s causing it to happen.
February 20th, 2007 at 1:50 amAyaana hirsi ali
waffan sulton
noonie darwish
brigette gabriel
waleed shoebot
Comment by Vince P — February 20, 2007 @ 1:46 am
Who are these people and why should I care about their opinions?
February 20th, 2007 at 1:50 amNat: I’m trying to raise awareness of the threat to our civilization against a evil ideology. You call that bigotry?? fine I’m a bigot.
Comment by Vince P — February 20, 2007 @ 1:48 am
You’re a paranoid bigot. You offend me to the core.
February 20th, 2007 at 1:52 amThis is Wafa Sultan.
http://www.memritv.org/Search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=1050
She is so brave that I took the effort to find a good link for her. Watch it.
The rest are just as brave, but she especially and I couldnt disrepect her and not make that effort.. the rest you can research on your own and come to your own conclusions.
February 20th, 2007 at 1:53 amI don’t want that to happen.
Comment by paul
Step up.
February 20th, 2007 at 1:54 amstep up damnit.
engulf the higher step
Westboro Baptist Church is an abomination. They are nasty, vile people. (BTW: The Phelps supported Gore for President). Comment by Vince P — February 20, 2007 @ 1:43 am
Yes they are vile, and they’re American Christians. Why don’t you list foul americans like this, as a danger to american society?
And I have to correct yet another LIE you posted, Westboro supported Gore in the 1980s, not for president. In fact they campaigned against Gore and for Bush because of Gore’s stand on gay rights.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Phelps#Support_for_Al_Gore
No one in the mainstream support that group and they condemned for thier insanity. Comment by Vince P — February 20, 2007 @ 1:43 am
Ah, but they’re not alone. Have you ever read what Focus on the Family says about you? That you just have a mental illness. In fact 30 million americans think you’re either sick, or too full of sin to go to heaven. Many believe there should be a death penalty for your actions.
Nice huh?
February 20th, 2007 at 1:55 amThe rest are just as brave, but she especially and I couldnt disrepect her and not make that effort.. the rest you can research on your own and come to your own conclusions.
Comment by Vince P
Vince break your entropy.
February 20th, 2007 at 1:56 amYou’re a paranoid bigot. You offend me to the core.
Comment by Nat — February 20, 2007 @ 1:52 am
A gay religious bigot. Vince P just proves that every minority has its fringe Westboro bigots. Vince P says Westboro is an abomination, but I can’t see a single difference between Sheldon’s obsession with Gay people, and Vince’s obsession with Islam.
Vince P = Lou Sheldon
Repeat after me everyone
Vince P = Lou Sheldon
February 20th, 2007 at 1:57 amDont dare judge me, you offend me to the core.
Comment by Vince P — February 20, 2007 @ 1:48 am
You judge everyone else, and then are offended when people judge you?
Hypocrite, fool, lunatic.
Vince P = Lou Sheldon
February 20th, 2007 at 1:58 amAfter watching that.. please email her and tell her what a racist ignorant bigot c*nt she is. Comment by Vince P — February 20, 2007 @ 1:57 am
Funny, that was the email I thought you deserved receiving. You ignorant bigot c*nt.
Vince P = Lou Sheldon
February 20th, 2007 at 1:59 amyou idiots can make it as much about me as you want. I’m not saying anything that is new. it doesnt matter if I was a hypocrtical coward like you or Che Guevara… the situation would be the same. Wake up fools. Nihilism kills.
February 20th, 2007 at 1:59 amHi, I’m Vince P.
February 20th, 2007 at 2:02 amI make hateful remarks about what I think is a hateful religion, and don’t get the irony!
Check out my hateful website!
it doesnt matter if I was a hypocrtical coward
Yes it does vince.
February 20th, 2007 at 2:03 amyou idiots can make it as much about me as you want. I’m not saying anything that is new. it doesnt matter if I was a hypocrtical coward like you or Che Guevara… the situation would be the same. Wake up fools. Nihilism kills.
Comment by Vince P — February 20, 2007 @ 1:59 am
The Bush administration kills and they’re Christian.
February 20th, 2007 at 2:03 amyou idiots can make it as much about me as you want. Comment by Vince P — February 20, 2007 @ 1:59 am
Why is it just about you? You’re just a big enough fool to be this bigoted – just like Lou Sheldon. You aren’t unique, fools like you are born every day.
I’m not saying anything that is new. Comment by Vince P — February 20, 2007 @ 1:59 am
Of course you aren’t new – bigots like you are always around. What, did you think you were the first dumbass born?
it doesnt matter if I was a hypocrtical coward like you or Che Guevara… Comment by Vince P — February 20, 2007 @ 1:59 am
But you are a hypocritical coward, the one that uses anti-commie metaphors to demonstrate their ‘cred’ as a conservative, while supporting the party that thinks you don’t deserve human rights.
the situation would be the same. Wake up fools. Nihilism kills.
Comment by Vince P — February 20, 2007 @ 1:59 am
So does ignorance, bigotry and hatred – all of which you have in abundance.
February 20th, 2007 at 2:04 amVince P = Gay Lou Sheldon
February 20th, 2007 at 2:06 amAfter watching that.. please email her and tell her what a racist ignorant bigot c*nt she is.
Comment by Vince P — February 20, 2007 @ 1:57 am
I watched about half the video and it looks like she depises her own religion. Google Jews against Zionism.
February 20th, 2007 at 2:06 amDo you realize what a spatial fool of time/space you are? RJ?
Comment by Zep Tepi — February 20, 2007 @ 1:47 am
Zepi Tepi,
Are you per chance speaking to me?
February 20th, 2007 at 2:07 amNat:
How old are you? You shoudl be embarassed going to such immature lengths.
Using your logic
- Bush admin is evil and kills people
- Bush admin has males in it
- Nat is presummably a male
- Nat is evil and kills people
Bravo! When do you leave third grade?
February 20th, 2007 at 2:07 amFrom the pristine History of Christianity.
In 1122 Christian crusaders swept over Jerusalem and slaughtered men, women and children, “until their horses were knee deep in blood. We then went to the church to thank the Lord for his mercy.”
In 777 , Charlemagne, a devout Christian, after conquering the Saxon rebels, gave them a choice between baptism and execution. When they refused to convert, he had 4500 of them beheaded in one morning.
In the fourth century, Emperor Constantine, the first Roman Emperor to become a Christian, had over 3000 Christians executed because their interpretation of the Bible did not agree with his. That is more than the number of Christians who died at the hands of the Romans during the well known 1st century “Christians to the lions” persecutions.
—- from William Manchester’s “A World Lit Only by Fire- The Medieval Mind and The Renaissance”..Little, Brown & Company, 1992
There is alot more where that came from. And that is just the mass murders. Not even touching the rapes and molestation of women and children throughout history.
February 20th, 2007 at 2:08 amHi, I’m Vince P.
I make hateful remarks about what I think is a hateful religion, and don’t get the irony!
Check out my hateful website!
Comment by Vince P — February 20, 2007 @ 2:02 am
In this case the Republican genes have trumped the Gay ones, and Vince is humorless. He’s probably brain damaged, and humor impaired like so many that are mentally ‘challenged’ in life.
It’s the height of irony to see the Christians and Jews that preach the most about the war and hate of Islam, want to use war and hate to attack it!
Projection is always so funny with conservatives!
February 20th, 2007 at 2:08 amTrip: Really, “all the evils in Islam are present in Judaism and Christianity?” Seriously. You’re comparing the US to a place where women are stoned to death for adultery.
Muslims don’t read the Bible. The Koran is the central miracle of Islam, and it’s the authority. Just like Christians rarely read the old testament and the talmud, only moreso.
Judaism has been pretty universally peaceful for the last two-thousand years or so (If you say Israel, consider it’s smaller than Vermont, and up against millions of VERY angry Muslims. If you still say it’s a warmonger, then you really do hate Jews). And Christianity… well… actually read the scriptures.
If you reference the Crusades, bear in mind that the Jihad was Muhammad’s idea, while the Crusades were invented by a Pope controlled by a country.
February 20th, 2007 at 2:09 amou idiots can make it as much about me as you want. I’m not saying anything that is new. it doesnt matter if I was a hypocrtical coward like you or Che Guevara… the situation would be the same. Wake up fools. Nihilism kills.
Comment by Vince P
Do you believe in Jesus?
February 20th, 2007 at 2:10 amoh, i noticed someone made one comment impersonating me.. the one post about “go to my racist site” or something… i’m signing off for the night, so if there’s any more messages from “me”.. its not me.
February 20th, 2007 at 2:10 amI watched about half the video and it looks like she depises her own religion. Google Jews against Zionism. Comment by Nat — February 20, 2007 @ 2:06 am
I’m always amused when some whack job like Vince P talks about the religious wars of Islam, and ignores that the Torah chronicles the Jews stealing all of Judea from the Phoenicians, Canaanites and Hittites.
Zionism chronicled a violent and brutal holy war that put Jews as the villains in their own story of heroism.
But Vince P won’t be bothered with facts, he has paranoia and hysteria as his guide to history! Just like an ignorant racist bigot c*nt ;)
February 20th, 2007 at 2:12 amUsing your logic
- Bush admin is evil and kills people
- Bush admin has males in it
- Nat is presummably a male
- Nat is evil and kills people
Bravo! When do you leave third grade?
Comment by Vince P — February 20, 2007 @ 2:07 am
What the hell are you talking?
February 20th, 2007 at 2:12 amVince P. I am calling it a night, but thank you very much. I have felt strongly about this, but been unable to communicate it effectively. The clips (especially Wafa Sultan) are powerful. I don’t think there is any interest, but if progressives were interested in the opposing view, that’s the place to get it. Nice Job. Good night, everybody.
February 20th, 2007 at 2:13 amThanks Paul… I appreciated your very patient and civil messages you wrote that were only met with scorn and mocking contempt by the Regressives.
February 20th, 2007 at 2:15 amso after all the evidence. you dumb people have stooped so low as to unrelentlessly apologized for islam.
you are so indoctrinated in your hatred of America you side with her mortal enemies.
all of you need to go fcuk yourselves.
Comment by Vince P — February 20, 2007 @ 2:09 am
Fundamentalist Islam is just as dangerous as you people and you’re within the country.
you need to go fcuk yourself.
February 20th, 2007 at 2:16 amso after all the evidence. you dumb people have stooped so low as to unrelentlessly apologized for islam. Comment by Vince P — February 20, 2007 @ 2:09 am
Evidence? You posted a bunch of Gay Lou Sheldon impersonation hate speech and opinions. We don’t need a little prissy britches like you to explain to us that radicals exist in Islam, any more than we need it to be explained that radicals like you exist in the US. What an arrogant little prick you are.
you are so indoctrinated in your hatred of America you side with her mortal enemies. Comment by Vince P — February 20, 2007 @ 2:09 am
Mortal enemies? You’re a fcuking sick bigot. Radicalism is the enemy, and you’re a radical at home that wants to destroy america while pretending to defend us from our enemies. Hitler had self loathing gay conservatives in his inner circle as well. You’re a sad sick little man – that needs therapy more than you’ll ever know how much.
all of you need to go fcuk yourselves. Comment by Vince P — February 20, 2007 @ 2:09 am
That sounds more like your trick, and from the sounds of it, you’ve done so much that you’ve fcuked your own brains out.
February 20th, 2007 at 2:16 amVince P. I am calling it a night, but thank you very much. I have felt strongly about this, but been unable to communicate it effectively. The clips (especially Wafa Sultan) are powerful. I don’t think there is any interest, but if progressives were interested in the opposing view, that’s the place to get it. Nice Job. Good night, everybody. Comment by paul — February 20, 2007 @ 2:13 am
You’re thanking this freak, that stands against everything you say you believe in? It’ll be fools like you that destroy america, if we fall. It won’t be the terrorists. Hitler used compelling evidence of radical jews to justify destroying the freedom of Germans. Fools like you, scared little baby shits always comply. What pansy assed little cowards you both are. Grow a pair between the two of you, will you little girls?
February 20th, 2007 at 2:19 amThat guy, who just said he was the “real me”?
Total faker.
If he comes back, ask him the name of the retarded girl I work with at McDonald’s who gave me a handjob in the back parking lot on our lunch break.
February 20th, 2007 at 2:19 amThanks Paul… I appreciated your very patient and civil messages you wrote that were only met with scorn and mocking contempt by the Regressives. Comment by Vince P — February 20, 2007 @ 2:15 am
Bigotry always must be met with scorn and mocking, or didn’t you know that you stupid little c*nt? Regressives? Says the freak that posts 1300 year old propaganda.
You’re a fool.
Radical Islam is dangerous, but fools like you are even more dangerous. Because you actually should know better and you don’t! You have no excuses, c*nt.
February 20th, 2007 at 2:20 amIf he comes back, ask him the name of the retarded girl I work with at McDonald’s who gave me a handjob in the back parking lot on our lunch break. Comment by Vince P — February 20, 2007 @ 2:19 am
Girl? I thought that was your dad in a skirt.
February 20th, 2007 at 2:21 am“Destroy America”?
Really, destroy America?
I mean… totally. We want America to lose the wars its in…
Oh, no, that’s you.
Well, we want the President to be assassinated…
Wait, you again.
We want Sharia courts which demean women and violate the rule of law…
You again.
We advocate people who unabashedly say they will not rest until the US is ground into the dust…
You.
Um… other than allowing our president to monitor international calls without a court order… And saying that he isn’t evil personified… how are we destroying the country?
February 20th, 2007 at 2:22 amRache Chickennardi,
I need to ask you to please go with another name on this blog since I have nevber seen you here before. You are a newcomer, therefore I will pull my seniority on you and kindly ask you to remove your moniker from now on.
It is too close to my name, rachel kinnardi. Other’s may “accidentally” construe what you say are my thoughts and my beliefs, when they are in fact anything but and on many venues.
This “parody” play on my name is not welcomed or tolerated here at ThinkProgress.
In the future posts you make here, please choose another name, post the name you will be using from now on here to let everyone know what your new name will be, and everything will be fine and square with you and me.
If not…???
And besides that, the only person who has ever referred to me as “Rache” here on ThinkProgress was one…
Barfly.
I would hope Barfly wouldn’t be this childish as to trash an entire thread on a hypothetical argument.
February 20th, 2007 at 2:23 amRache Chickennardi,
I need to ask you to please go with another name on this blog since I have nevber seen you here before. You are a newcomer, therefore I will pull my seniority on you and kindly ask you to remove your moniker from now on.
It is too close to my name, rachel kinnardi. Other’s may “accidentally” construe what you say are my thoughts and my beliefs, when they are in fact anything but and on many venues.
This “parody” play on my name is not welcomed or tolerated here at ThinkProgress.
In the future posts you make here, please choose another name, post the name you will be using from now on here to let everyone know what your new name will be, and everything will be fine and square with you and me.
If not…???
And besides that, the only person who has ever referred to me as “Rache” here on ThinkProgress was one…
Barfly.
I would hope Barfly wouldn’t be this childish as to trash an entire thread on a hypothetical argument.
February 20th, 2007 at 2:24 amComment by rachel rj kinnardi
tou think now you have attained status by your rank amateur remarks?
think again child
February 20th, 2007 at 2:28 amComment by rachel rj kinnardi
you think now you have attained status by your rank amateur remarks?
think again child
February 20th, 2007 at 2:28 amBravo! When do you leave third grade?
Comment by Vince P — February 20, 2007 @ 2:07 am
When do you enter it, c*nt?
February 20th, 2007 at 2:45 amyou think now you have attained status by your rank amateur remarks?
Comment by Rache Chickennardi
————————————————
If you are a regular here in “disguise” and I well think you are by the way, I am disappointed for the rest of the posters here.
Is the “only” reason “YOU” post here is for…”status”?
That just blows my mind.
Totally the WRONG reason to be here if you think this is what TP is all about my friend.
This will be my last communique with you now and in the future, as you have ruined this particular thread beyond “repair” for anyone else to make heads or tales of.
Congratulations Troll!
Barfly is the ONLY one here who has ever referred to me as Rache.
Barfly, sober up dude. You have trashed the entire thread.
Again,
Congratulations Troll!
————————————————————–
Rachel Chickennardi = PISS SOAKED TROLL USING MY NAME.
Rachel teen Hoodlum = PISS SOAKED TROLL USING MY NAME.
PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO IT
February 20th, 2007 at 2:48 amyou think now you have attained status by your rank amateur remarks?
Comment by Rache Chickennardi
————————————————
If you are a regular here in “disguise” and I well think you are by the way, I am disappointed for the rest of the posters here.
Is the “only” reason “YOU” post here is for…”status”?
That just blows my mind.
Totally the WRONG reason to be here if you think this is what TP is all about my friend.
This will be my last communique with you now and in the future, as you have ruined this particular thread beyond “repair” for anyone else to make heads or tales of.
Congratulations Troll!
Barfly is the ONLY one here who has ever referred to me as Rache.
Barfly, sober up dude. You have trashed the entire thread.
Again,
Congratulations Troll!
————————————————————–
Rachel Chickennardi = PISS SOAKED TROLL USING MY NAME.
Rachel teen Hoodlum = PISS SOAKED TROLL USING MY NAME.
PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO IT
February 20th, 2007 at 2:49 amReminds me of the “Ender’s Game” series, where all but the pre-devised debates were ignored by their puppets.
February 20th, 2007 at 2:52 amSo Vince P, you seemed to think Lou Sheldon was special. Here’s what your mainstream Christian leaders think about you. It’s ironic how identical they sound to you, just substitute liberal! You right wingnuts are all alike! Just imagine that, you and Lou Sheldon are the same man!
Jerry Falwell:
“[T]hese perverted homosexuals.absolutely hate everything that you and I and most decent, God-fearing citizens stand for.Make no mistake. These deviants seek no less than total control and influence in society, politics, our schools and in our exercise of free speech and religious freedom..If we do not act now, homosexuals will own America!” 1999 fund-raising letter (reported in Church & State, October 1999, p. 9)
Lou Sheldon, founder of the Traditional Values Coalition:
Our little children are being targeted by the homosexuals and liberals who are pushing for this legislation,” wrote Sheldon. “They want our preschool children.. They want our kindergarten children..They want our grade school children..They want our middle school and high school children..To be brainwashed to think that homosexuality is the moral equivalent of heterosexuality. We can’t let that happen.”
President of Family Research Council, Tony Perkins:
“This is THE wake-up call for both the American public and our elected officials. If we do not amend the Massachusetts State Constitution so that it explicitly protects marriage as the union of one man and one woman, and if we do not amend the U.S. Constitution with a federal marriage amendment that will protect marriage on the federal level, we will lose marriage in this nation.”
From Don Wildmon of the American Family Association:
The sacred institution of marriage is under attack. There are those who want to redefine marriage to include two men, or two women, or a group of any size or mix of sexes: One man and four women, one woman and two men, etc. If they fail to secure legal protection classifying these arrangements as ‘marriage,’ they want to include all these mixtures under the definition of ‘civil union,’ giving them identical standing with the marriage of one man and one woman.
They have gained the support of the national media and many politicians. Their efforts are intended to force, by law, 97% of Americans to bow down to the desires of the approximately 3% who are homosexuals.
From the Concerned Women for America’s Janet LaRue:
“These are the court jesters of the century. The Massachusetts Legislature should summon the moral courage to impeach the majority for their abuse of power and distortion of the state constitution.”
“Homosexuality is a Satanic counterfeit to God’s created design,” according to a speaker whose group sponsors workshops in Winston/Salem, North Caroina. Don Martin, superintendent of Winston-Salem/Forsyth County Schools encouraged his staff to attend a fundamentalist Christian presentation on homosexuality, that said conversion to Christianity can turn gays into heterosexuals.
Radio show host James Dobson of Focus on the Family was so upset with “homosexual propaganda” in the schools that, for the first time in twenty-five years of radio programming he called for his followers to pull their children out of the public schools.
The “homosexual propaganda” that Dobson was referring to was legislation in California that adds sexual orientation to a list of forms of discrimination that are banned in public schools. The legislation was designed to give schools new tools to combat bullying and harassment of gay students.
February 20th, 2007 at 2:56 amVince P is an Israeli. Under the counter-propaganda payroll of the Israeli govt. He’s part of the 5000+ English student employed to create dissent among members of any blog that criticizes Israel or any of their dobbermans & monsters like Bush & co.; while they blast the hell out of countries like Iran, Lebanon the like, demanding and screeching for a war they won’t fight but want us to fight on their behalf. TP could recognize these trolls by their off-topic comments, and annoying points they make.
Vince’s comments doesn’t deserve any reply. His time is bank-rolled. The amount of smears he hauls around gets him a fat dirty check at the end of the week. There’s no sincerety to what he claims, be it true or not. Vince is part of those many, who sold their honor, brain, mind and integrity for cash. I could such an idiot ever THINK PROGRESSIVELY.
February 20th, 2007 at 5:24 amhttp://www.eff.org/
EFF: Legal Guide for Bloggers
Updated April 20, 2006
Whether you’re a newly minted blogger or a relative old-timer, you’ve been seeing more and more stories pop up every day about bloggers getting in trouble for what they post.
Like all journalists and publishers, bloggers sometimes publish information that other people don’t want published. You might, for example, publish something that someone considers defamatory, republish an AP news story that’s under copyright, or write a lengthy piece detailing the alleged crimes of a candidate for public office.
The difference between you and the reporter at your local newspaper is that in many cases, you may not have the benefit of training or resources to help you determine whether what you’re doing is legal. And on top of that, sometimes knowing the law doesn’t help – in many cases it was written for traditional journalists, and the courts haven’t yet decided how it applies to bloggers.
But here’s the important part: None of this should stop you from blogging. Freedom of speech is the foundation of a functioning democracy, and Internet bullies shouldn’t use the law to stifle legitimate free expression. That’s why EFF created this guide, compiling a number of FAQs designed to help you understand your rights and, if necessary, defend your freedom.
To be clear, this guide isn’t a substitute for, nor does it constitute, legal advice. Only an attorney who knows the details of your particular situation can provide the kind of advice you need if you’re being threatened with a lawsuit. The goal here is to give you a basic roadmap to the legal issues you may confront as a blogger, to let you know you have rights, and to encourage you to blog freely with the knowledge that your legitimate speech is protected.
Please note that this guide applies to people living in the US. We don’t have the expertise or resources to speak to other countries’ legal traditions, but we’d like to work with those who do. If you know of a similar guide for your own jurisdiction or feel inspired to research and write one, please let us know. We can link to it here.
Table of Contents
or, see an index of all the questions » http://www.eff.org/bloggers/lg/questions.php
Blogger Legal Liability Issues
The Overview of Legal Liability Issues FAQ briefly addresses some common legal issues that affect you as a publisher, especially situations where you may face legal claims or threats based on the information you published on your blog.
The Bloggers’ FAQ on Intellectual Property addresses issues that arise when you publish material created by others on your blog.
The Bloggers’ FAQ on Online Defamation Law provides an overview of defamation (libel) law, including a discussion of the constitutional and statutory privileges that may protect you.
The Bloggers’ FAQ on Section 230 Protections discusses a powerful federal law that gives you, as a web host, protection against legal claims arising from hosting information written by third parties.
The Bloggers’ FAQ on Privacy addresses the legal issues surrounding the privacy rights of people you blog about.
Bloggers As Journalists
The Bloggers’ FAQ on the Reporter’s Privilege is useful to bloggers who report news gathered from confidential sources.
The Bloggers’ FAQ on Media Access can help bloggers who need to get access to public records and government meetings, as well as secure press passes to help with newsgathering.
The Bloggers’ FAQ on the Freedom of Information Act can help bloggers use open government laws to get information from the government.
Other Legal Issues for Bloggers
The Student Bloggers’ Legal FAQ addresses legal issues arising from student blogging. It focuses on blogging by high school (and middle school) students, but also contains information for college students.
The Bloggers’ FAQ on Election Law addresses the legal issues you may face blogging about political campaigns.
The Bloggers’ FAQ on Labor Law addresses legal issues with workplace blogging, including union organizing, protections for political blogging away from the workplace, and whistle blowing.
The Bloggers’ FAQ on Adult Material addresses the legal issues arising from publishing risque adult-oriented content, including obscenity law, community standards on the Internet, and the new 2257 regulations.
February 20th, 2007 at 6:26 amLord Tebbit wrote:
“The Muslim religion is so unreformed since it was created that nowhere in the Muslim world has there been any real advance in science, or art or literature, or technology in the last 500 yearsâ€
Comment by Vince P
This is the truth of the matter right here vince… the muslim extremists are not hiding under your bed. They are backwards human beings just as WE were not long ago and like many of US still are… I am sure you are familiar with the “brilliant” south in America…. well you want to kiill them for being that way… for growing up that way.. for being poor, uneducated, or being powerless to change their dictatorial governments who are supported by outside powers like the USA.
You want to kill them for it… because they are just “natives” and “tribals” … if extermination is good enough for the American Indians then it is good enough for the arabs right?
When are WE going to progress past the point where we solve our problems by murder? I would like to out smart these religious extermists but it is very very difficult when we have our own who are here making our collective society dumber and backwards and closed minded.
February 20th, 2007 at 7:40 amGregory Palamus of Thessalonica, 1354:
“For these impious people, hated by God and infamous, boast of having got the better of the Romans by their love of God…they live by the bow, the sword and debauchery, finding pleasure in taking slaves, devoting themselves to murder, pillage, spoil…and not only do they commit these crimes, but even — what an aberration — they believe that God approves of them. This is what I think of them, now that I know precisely about their way of life.â€.
Remove the reference to the Romans and this could be talking about the American south..
February 20th, 2007 at 7:42 amIslam says Kill all the unbelievers just as they would kill you all! Does this mean that Muslims should sit back until they are devoured by [the unbelievers] Islam says Kill them [the non-Muslims], put them to the sword and scatter [their armies]. Does this mean sitting back until [non-Muslims] overcome us Islam says Kill in the service of Allah those who may want to kill you!
But but but Vince!!! I thought you were trying to say they wanted to attack us to force us to be believers in Islam… it sounds more like this is saying exactly what we progressives have been saying… arabs have been raped by the west and the mongals for that matter and Islam grew as a response to that. Are you trying to say that the arabs should take endless abuse and never do what Americans themselves did and rise up and right laws to protect us and then take up arms to enforce our rights that we wrote ourselves in our own laws?
The rape of the arabs has been going on forever. They are still backwards and in their own darkages. Some of them have tried to rise above by getting educated, but their societies dont take advantage of that… sounds like to me that the arab world needs a totally different type of American help. Sounds like to me they need a light house …. not a bomb.
February 20th, 2007 at 7:48 amI represent no one except myself.
I will always defend Israel and the United States against their enemies, whether they be Islamic religious fanatics or Western Regressive Nihilists.
February 20th, 2007 at 7:54 amI will always defend Israel and the United States against their enemies, whether they be Islamic religious fanatics or Western Regressive Nihilists.
Comment by Vince P
How about Constitution hating American fundamentalist christians?
February 20th, 2007 at 7:58 amI wish you guys would get your slander about me consistant.. I dont know if I’m Jim Jones, a Christian Fundamentalist, or an Orthodox Jew.
February 20th, 2007 at 8:33 amHow about Constitution hating American fundamentalist christians?
Comment by Gerald Gibson Jr
There’s no such thing.
February 20th, 2007 at 8:35 amThe Voice of Islam: reminding the world to convert or die
Audio from an Imam (speaking English) deep-rooted in the fundamentals of Islam, not quite sure on the source, I’ll hopefully have an update soon. This should be a stark reminder of what we’re up against, Infidels!
February 20th, 2007 at 8:49 amIraq war decimates small towns
I always thought that that inner city kids were the ones that the military “targeted” for recruitment, not small town white kids…at least that’s what Michael Moore said.
February 20th, 2007 at 8:51 amVince P.
Why do you hate America so much?
February 20th, 2007 at 9:46 amIs that it? You hate America because we’re “retarded?”
February 20th, 2007 at 10:45 am#362: “I represent no one except myself. I will always defend Israel and the United States against their enemies, whether they be Islamic religious fanatics or Western Regressive Nihilists.
Comment by Vince P
Poor Vince P. Not actually the kind of guy with the kind of aggresive credential to tackle the smart dudes in TP. You are thinking we are like most of the dum dum in Fox & Friends, or the BBC Have your Say, where you guys bend the bloggers easily during heated counter-comment from some of the keyboard banging ass-lickers in Israel?
Definitely not. Vince P is out of ideas, just like the Rip-publicans were after Bush crash landed the GOP. Just like the Likud party needed someone to skin for their chicken failure in Lebanon. Just like any spoilt kid would have acted in the face of harsh and painful reality.
Vince, I might help you. Why not go to webistes like the ADL webpages. They have enough materials and a very large archive where you could get enough stories and links you could haul around to smear the moslems. I even saw a ref that Moslems are cavemen, afraid of the light of Globalization. ADL is very rich with sh***t like this kind. There, they keep track of enough hate stories, steming from kids stoning Israeli tanks, and people who burn American flags, and other who claim that Israelis are scumbags. All these are very very serious crimes, that warrants getting blown off, nuked, or getting wiped out.
Hahahahaha, you are as sick and as irredeemable as you bank roller. Why would they ever get dumbos like you. Don’t tell me that you are guys down their are entirely losing it? Get out Vince, TP isn’t a smear-ground for you.
February 20th, 2007 at 10:51 amBooh!
- Chicago – Iranian beats 3 women to death because he felt dishonored
- Nashville – Muslim cab driver tries to kill two of his passengers after they left his cab by running them over
- Utah – Bosnia goes on shooting spree
And honorable mention
New York City – It is revealed last weekend that the Empire State Building shooting that occured in the late 1990s was done by a Muslim who was upset about Israel
What are these people doing to our cities?
Comment by Vince P. Afraid — February 19, 2007 @ 9:19 pm
I follow with this CNN headline story:
• Number of attacks on homeless at highest level in almost a decade
• 122 attacks, 20 murders in 2006, according to National Coalition for the Homeless
• For some teens, “this passes as amusement,” expert says
hmmm, I wonder what religion those caucasion teens belong too?
Your point, Vince P. Afraid, was irrelavant, as was you’re total derailing of this particular thread.
February 20th, 2007 at 11:08 amBegone, and hide under your bed!
DRxJ:
Don’t worry about Vince P.; he clearly knows better and is baiting all of us. Poor thing must not have much of a life, preferring to post nonsense for hours instead of being out there doing something useful or productive.
Everyone knows that the the widening gap between “haves” and “have-nots” serves the military well, not to take anything away from the brave and well-intended patriots who do want to do something productive (unlike Vince) by serving their country, misled as that effort may be.
February 20th, 2007 at 11:42 amBarry: The Jihadis aren’t Marxists. Try reading what they have to say if you want to know what their motivation is, racist.
February 20th, 2007 at 12:31 pmI represent no one except myself.
I will always defend Israel and the United States against their enemies, whether they be Islamic religious fanatics or Western Regressive Nihilists.
Comment by Vince P — February 20, 2007 @ 7:54 am
I wish you guys would get your slander about me consistant.. I dont know if I’m Jim Jones, a Christian Fundamentalist, or an Orthodox Jew.
Comment by Vince P — February 20, 2007 @ 8:33 am
You don’t know if you’re an american either, that’s why you sound more like a radical Christian/Jewish Imam, than one.
The reason people are confused, is because you’re confused, and too cowardly to explain what your values are. People guess, based on your radical extremist views. There are 3 common possibilities, a cultist, a right wing Christian, or a right wing Jew.
So which is it you silly little little c*nt?
February 20th, 2007 at 1:08 pmBarry: The Jihadis aren’t Marxists. Try reading what they have to say if you want to know what their motivation is, racist. Comment by Vince P — February 20, 2007 @ 12:31 pm
BWAHHAHA, as if reading your racist rants would ‘teach’ anyone anything! Reading your posts about muslims, is like reading Lou Sheldon to learn about gay people!!!
BWAAHAHAHA, learn something – that’s funnyyyyy!!!!!
I’m still waiting skippy for you to answer all of that hate rhetoric your fellow Christans/Jews in american have to say about you. Why do you defend extremists? Self hatred?
February 20th, 2007 at 1:10 pmBarry: The Jihadis aren’t Marxists. Comment by Vince P — February 20, 2007 @ 12:31 pm
You’re right, they’re Fascists, just like yourself. That’s why we’re making fun of you! Why would we want to have a Fascist (you) defend us from other Fascists! From where we sit, you’re as much of the problem as they are. You fascists are all alike. Go live in Saudi Arabia, or Israel and leave our Country Vince. You are too anti-american to be here.
February 20th, 2007 at 1:12 pmWow, you freaks do actually attack other Americans.. So peaceful.
”
A Fredericksburg man was arrested Saturday on charges he assaulted three strangers at their home during a dispute over politics, police said.
According to a Fredericksburg police report, the suspect went to a home in the 900 block of Marye Street about 5:30 p.m. after finding one of the resident’s name on a Republican Web site.
The resident and his two roommates engaged in a discussion with the suspect, though none of them had ever met or had contact with him before.
The argument got heated and the suspect learned that the young residents had not enlisted in the military and “put their all†behind the Republican-led war effort in Iraq, police spokeswoman Natatia Bledsoe said.
The suspect refused to leave the home after repeatedly being asked to do so, police said. The three roommates were hit multiple times each as they attempted to get the suspect out of the door, authorities said.
The suspect continued to be aggressive and disorderly even after a city police officer arrived, the report states.
February 20th, 2007 at 1:30 pm“
Progressives are the real NAZIs.. Going to people’s houses and assaulting them.
I should probably keep logs for evidence.
February 20th, 2007 at 1:31 pmComment by Vince P — February 20, 2007 @ 1:30 pm
Would you mind offering a link for this?
February 20th, 2007 at 1:40 pmIslam Is Not The Enemy, Part II
By Frank Pastore
Sunday, February 18, 2007
The elevator doors opened and in walked a young woman dressed in the traditional veiled hijab–I’m assuming she was a Muslim–and I thought to myself, “Is she my enemy?†Looking at the reaction to my last column, there’s a whole bunch of people whose default position is to believe so–and maybe they’re right. In their minds, “Islam is the enemy. We’re at war. She shouldn’t be here.†It’s that simple to them.
But, of course, in the real world, it is so much more complicated–and ancient. Humanity has been dealing with this prob-lem for a long time. Plato addressed the theological-political problem in his Laws back in the 5th century B.C. Today, for most of us, the problem occurs in the struggle to reconcile two conflicting beliefs.
As Christians, we believe Islam is a false religion–and the belief is reciprocal.
As Americans, we believe in the free exercise of religion, including Islam–but this belief is not reciprocal.
So, how do we deal with tolerating a religion that is itself intolerant of us? Ought we to pride ourselves on our tolerance and eagerly embrace their intolerance even if it leads to our own destruction? Or, perhaps we ought to abandon our First Amendment and be intolerant of Islam while tolerating only those “acceptable†religions that we decide are “peaceful� Or, should we intolerantly force them to abandon their religion and embrace a “moderate†replacement that we approve of?
None of these options work for me. I’m a Christian American and I want to live at peace with others, but if someone wants to kill my family, it’s a fight to the death. I don’t think we’re there, yet. Nor do I want to pass an Amendment that would legalize religious discrimination. I don’t want to adapt to them, I think they should adapt to us and embrace toler-ance–the whole “live and let live†thing. Nor do I want to force someone to change their religion against their will–how could this even be done? There’s got to be another option. But, is there?
See, the problem is, Christianity teaches the Golden Rule while Islam doesn’t. The Koran teaches that every Muslim is superior to every non-Muslim and that men are superior to women. A Muslim may treat a Jew, a Buddhist, or a Christian with respect, but they will never be considered equals, for they are dhimmis, a near-slave status in Muslim teaching. This is the fundamental reason why Islam is incompatible with democracy and thereby the West. How can you have a democracy among non-equals? Let alone the fact that half of all Muslim populations are immediately excluded from the political process simply because of their gender. Either the West will cease to be the West, or Islam will cease to be Is-lam. But the two cannot blend and remain what they are. It is the defining characteristic of each that it has almost noth-ing in common with the other.
In Islam, the world is divided into the world of believers, dar al Islam, and that of unbelievers, dar al harb. Islam is not merely at war with the West, it is at war with the world. No authority is higher than the infallible divine law contained in the closed canon of the Koran. Sharia law trumps all other claims to divine law, all natural law, and all positive law. No Muslim can be under any authority other than sharia law. To do so is to render oneself apostate and deserving of death. Reason itself is unable to inquire into the morality of the divine law. This is why the concepts of state, citizen, nation, pluralism and tolerance are alien to Islam. It is also why perhaps there is no more clear instance of the reformer’s di-lemma in all of history. To reform one must question, and to question is forbidden.
As I wrote a few weeks ago, “Americans are alarmed by the advance of Islam into our society, and properly so, for who will assimilate to whom? Could a Muslim have written the Declaration of Independence, the Bill of Rights, the Constitu-tion? Does Islam believe in the separation of church and state, that all men are created equal, that there should be no religious test for political office holders, that government ought to be secular?â€
The answer, of course, is no.
The challenge of the West to live peaceably with Islam is made perhaps impossible by both the historical record and sim-ply by looking around today. What do nearly all the problem spots around the world have in common? What dominant Muslim country has anything approaching real human rights? Where are the Muslim denunciations of violence, terrorism, genocide, and slavery coming from the many mosques, universities, newspapers and capitols throughout the Muslim world? For that matter, where are the condemnations of these things coming from the American Muslim community? There are over one billion Muslims on this planet and their collective silence on these evils is deafening and threatening. What are we non-Muslims to think, other than that the vast majority of Muslims must either support if not tolerate such things? Perhaps “moderate†Islam is merely a Western fiction created to avoid addressing the unavoidable and inevitable reality of civilizational incompatibility.
The loudest and most clear message we non-Muslims hear from the Muslim world is “Convert, submit to Dhimmitude, or die.†Come to think of it, I’m not hearing any other message. And that is what is so deeply troubling.
Are we to take comfort in being told not all Muslims are radical? Perhaps, and I hold on to that. But, if just one-hundredth of one-percent are future jihadists, you’re still talking 100,000 killers hoping to blow up a school bus or fly a plane into a building. We are at war with these radicals, make no mistake.
So, as I remember that young woman in the elevator with the hijab, I think of these things.
Maybe she’s an American citizen who loves this country and is bothered by what she sees, too. Maybe her family fled re-ligious persecution back in the old country. Maybe she actually wants to live here and raise her family here. Her Muslim husband might be in the National Guard. She might even be a Republican. And maybe, just maybe, she’s someone who worries about these things just as I do, and is trying to reform her religion into something that can live peaceably in modernity.
It’s these last thoughts that stop me short of seeing her as the enemy.
Or, maybe she’s in a sleeper cell. I probably wouldn’t know until it was too late, anyway.
The Frank Pastore Show is heard in Los Angeles weekday afternoons on 99.5 KKLA and on the web at kkla.com, and is the winner of the 2006 National Religious Broadcasters Talk Show of the Year. Frank is a former major league pitcher with graduate degrees in both philosophy of religion and political philosophy.
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Copyright © 2006 Salem Web Network. All Rights Reserved.
February 20th, 2007 at 1:41 pmProgressives are the real NAZIs. Going to people’s houses and assaulting them.
Comment by Vince P — February 20, 2007 @ 1:31 pm
Congratulations. You’re a bigot. Condemning a whole group for the actions of a few.
Why do you hate America?
February 20th, 2007 at 1:42 pmEd: Here is the link
http://www.fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2007/022007/02202007/261345
Source
February 20th, 2007 at 1:46 pmOh Ed.. I’m just lowering myself to the standards here. Somehow you pass over the constant stream of everyone else here and single out me for unique admonishment.
Maybe you should examine your own biases.
February 20th, 2007 at 1:51 pmYeah Stan, I never understand how the ‘inner city recruitment’ meme manages to survive on liberal sites when all the facts and figures about the make-up of the current US armed forces shows that recruits comes from, on average, middle class families that actually exceed the national average for income and have an graduation rate that puts the national average to shame (98%+).
In fact the breakdowns show that lower income families are actually underrepresented in the military and by far more than even families with average incomes over $100k.
So if their is an “economic draft” as Monkey boy suggests up top, it sure isn’t targeting America’s poor.
Basic rule of thumb: If Michael Moore states it as fact it’s almost guarenteed not to be.
February 20th, 2007 at 1:58 pm“It was not clear in the report what political agenda Stone was supporting.”
Progressives are the real NAZIs. Going to people’s houses and assaulting them.
Comment by Vince P — February 20, 2007 @ 1:31 pm
How do you figure this guy is a progressive?
Somehow you pass over the constant stream of everyone else here and single out me for unique admonishment.
Comment by Vince P — February 20, 2007 @ 1:51 pm
Somehow?!? You’re the only one with 100+ posts and cut-and-pastes as long as my arm. How could I overlook you?
February 20th, 2007 at 2:01 pmWho else would be deranged enough to research for someone’s address and then go thier house to confront them about thier pro-war stance and fly off the handle cuz the person wasn’t enlisted.
It fits the profile of every Regressive on this thing.
February 20th, 2007 at 2:04 pmWho else would be deranged enough to research for someone’s address and then go thier house to confront them about thier pro-war stance and fly off the handle cuz the person wasn’t enlisted.
Comment by Vince P — February 20, 2007 @ 2:04 pm
A conservative against the war.
February 20th, 2007 at 2:13 pmBasic rule of thumb: If Michael Moore states it as fact it’s almost guarenteed not to be.
Comment by Bic — February 20, 2007 @ 1:58 pm
We have something in common. I use that basic rule with the Bush administration.
February 20th, 2007 at 2:15 pmEd, a simple course in deductive reasoning.
The sub-heading of the article is “Man’s Republican beliefs irritate suspect”. That would imply that the person who was irritated did not share those beliefs.
As well, the chickenhawk argument, which seems to be the crux of the matter, is almost solely made by ‘progressives’ as can be clearly seen throughout this very thread.
Personally I think pretty much anyone putting forward the idea that only those with military service can be proponents for military action are a little on the crazy side anyway (unless you like the idea of military dictatorships) but this guy takes the cake.
I must say I do love it when anti-war protesters attack people or things to prove how dedicated they are to their anti-war stance though (provided no one gets seriously hurt). Their lack of understanding of the irony of the situation is comedy gold.
February 20th, 2007 at 2:28 pmstop feeding vince you guys – he will go away
February 20th, 2007 at 2:48 pmPersonally I think pretty much anyone putting forward the idea that only those with military service can be proponents for military action are a little on the crazy side anyway (unless you like the idea of military dictatorships) but this guy takes the cake.
Comment by Bic — February 20, 2007 @ 2:28 pm
We only say that because it is an immoral war. If it were a justified war no one would bring up military service.
February 20th, 2007 at 2:57 pmNat, don’t take this too personally but that is one of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard. Who exactly gets to be the final arbiter of a war’s morality? You, me, the U.N.?
For any war you can think of you can find someone to defend or condemn it on the basis of morality. I personally find nothing immoral about a war started to remove an evil dictator from power and give 25 million people the freedom to self govern. Others disagree and use other criteria to judge the war, as is their right.
February 20th, 2007 at 3:52 pmComment by Bic — February 20, 2007 @ 2:28 pm
Oh, Bic, I swoon at your towering intellect. Thanks for the lesson. Worth every penny, I’m sure.
“It was not clear in the report what political agenda Stone was supporting.â€
What does that tell you? He could be a proponent of “Precious Bodily Fluids” for all you know. All you know is he didn’t like the other guy’s stance on the war.
If anything, this passage “The argument got heated and the suspect learned that the young residents had not enlisted in the military and “put their all” behind the Republican-led war effort in Iraq, police spokeswoman Natatia Bledsoe said.” suggests that Stone was pro-war, and insisted that the three roommates should enlist.
Your “deductive reasoning” is what adults call speculation.
February 20th, 2007 at 3:53 pmEd, and yet Stone himself was not serving.
Odd behavior for someone who is obviously able-bodied enough to start a fight with 3 people over their lack of war service if he was indeed advocating everybody should serve.
February 20th, 2007 at 4:00 pmNat, don’t take this too personally but that is one of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard. Who exactly gets to be the final arbiter of a war’s morality? You, me, the U.N.?
Comment by Bic — February 20, 2007 @ 3:52 pm
It is an immoral war. There was no basis for the attack and destruction of Iraq. It is akin to Germany invading Poland.
February 20th, 2007 at 4:03 pmFor any war you can think of you can find someone to defend or condemn it on the basis of morality. I personally find nothing immoral about a war started to remove an evil dictator from power and give 25 million people the freedom to self govern. Others disagree and use other criteria to judge the war, as is their right.
Comment by Bic — February 20, 2007 @ 3:52 pm
If this was the basis for the war, Bush should have made this clear and told the American people he was going to war to free Iraqis. I wonder how much support he would have gotten if this was the argument for war.
February 20th, 2007 at 4:09 pmNat, and once again your proof of immorality is your own personal opinion backed up by nothing. If that is your criteria than no war, anywhere for any reason is acceptable because no matter what the cause someone will find just the concept of war immoral and use their morality veto power you seem to imagine exist to prevent anyone from doing anything.
Of course that would only work for democratic governments who give a damn about what their people think and actually lead to more conflict as other governments begin to flex their might knowing that there will be no western power to stand in their way.
Just look at Darfur. While the international community tried to determine the morality of taking action thousands were dying. And if action in that case would fit your definition of a moral war how is that any different from the thousands of Kurds or political dissidents or teenage girls who were regularly killed, imprisoned or raped under Saddam’s rule. Or do you have some type of sliding scale you can share with the class to judge these types of things.
I have no problem with people who disagree with the implementation of or even the need for the war in Iraq but trying to throw it to the side as immoral is just a lazy argument that is based solely on feelings and therefore cannot be truly debated.
February 20th, 2007 at 4:29 pmNat, that has always been one of the pro-war arguments. The fact the anti-war crowd locked onto one issue (WMD’s) and beat it like a dead horse does not negate the fact there were several other reasons given prior to the war to justify it’s need.
From the President’s speech in Cincinnati, October 2, 2002.
February 20th, 2007 at 4:41 pmJust look at Darfur. While the international community tried to determine the morality of taking action thousands were dying. And if action in that case would fit your definition of a moral war how is that any different from the thousands of Kurds or political dissidents or teenage girls who were regularly killed, imprisoned or raped under Saddam’s rule. Or do you have some type of sliding scale you can share with the class to judge these types of things.
I have no problem with people who disagree with the implementation of or even the need for the war in Iraq but trying to throw it to the side as immoral is just a lazy argument that is based solely on feelings and therefore cannot be truly debated.
Comment by Bic — February 20, 2007 @ 4:29 pm
-I actually agree with you on Darfur. The war in Iraq was sold to the American people as the removal of a dictator who had WMDs and was in cahoots with Al Qeada. It had little to do with the liberation of Iraq because most people wouldn’t have supported it and that’s why he made the argument about the survival of Americans. The president couldn’t say we are going after a dictator who did most of killings in the 80s and early 90s with precursor weapons that Reagan and my daddy provided to him. This wouldn’t have gone over well w/ the American people.
-Any government in Iraq would have sufficed if they were friendly to the Neocon’s interests. It was all about them; it had nothing to do with the Iraqis.
February 20th, 2007 at 4:45 pmFrom the President’s speech in Cincinnati, October 2, 2002.
Comment by Bic — February 20, 2007 @ 4:41 pm
-He wouldn’t have gotten the support of the people let alone Congress without the WMD argument. The WMD sold the war.
-The war was about putting in place a government that was friendly to the Neocon’s [oil] interests. It had nothing to do with the Iraqis. If Saddam was like the Saudi Royal Family or if the main export of Iraq was Broccoli, the Neocons would not have gone to war.
February 20th, 2007 at 4:52 pmBic, I saw this on another thread:
February 20th, 2007 at 5:04 pm
Comment by Bic — February 20, 2007 @ 4:00 pm
It certainly is odd behavior! But not pregressive, regressive, fascist or any other -ive or -ist.
There you go again, the article does not say whether he is able-bodied. He was pugnacious, but he could have any number of disqualifying afflictions – including mental illness – and still pick a fight with 3 people.
February 20th, 2007 at 5:10 pmBic: The Regressive criteria as to if a war is “good” or not is inversely proportional to the importance said war is to the national security interests of the US.
So something like Rwanada is war crime for us to have neglicted it. The Iraqi population living under that beast Hussien and crushing Sanctions was totally tolerable to Regressives. In fact Regressives were willing to die to prevent the Iraqis liberation by going there to be human shields.
February 20th, 2007 at 5:44 pmNat, in response to the “with precursor weapons that Reagan and my daddy provided to him”, you really have to get out of the left wing echo chambers more and try to do some research on your own.
According to SIPRI (the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute) the US provided exactly 0.5% of the arms sold to Iraq between 1973 and 1990. And most of that was actually in civilian helicopters (i.e. incapable of carrying rockets) which for the purposes of the stats were included as ‘conventional weapons’.
The peace loving French on the other hand, were not so discriminating and all sorts of attack craft and weapons, even beating out China to the tune of $5.6 billion (12.7%). The Soviets of course were #1 with almost 70% of sales.
Once again, all the rest of your arguments are based on your opinion. I’m not discounting that oil was a major part of the decision to invade but if that was the only reason and all they wanted was oil there were much better ways to go about it. Hell, Canada has the worlds largest oil reserves and is also the largest supplier to the US. If they wanted cheaper oil they could just invest more into oil shale/sands extraction technology and not have to worry about dealing with the most hostile region on the planet.
The fact that Saddam was a major destabilizing force in the region as well as in continual violation of UN sanctions (including constantly firing on UN forces patrolling the no-fly zones) as well as pretending to have large stockpiles of WMDs (which contrary to popular left wing belief everyone, even his own generals, believed he had) were also important in the decision to finally take action on a resolution that was passed under the Clinton administration.
February 20th, 2007 at 5:50 pmDate : February 8, 1985
Sent To : Iraq Atomic Energy Agency
Materials Shipped:
Ustilago nuda (Jensen) Rostrup
Date : February 22, 1985
Sent To : Ministry of Higher Education
Materials Shipped:
Histoplasma capsulatum var. farciminosum (ATCC 32136)
Class III pathogen
Date : July 11, 1985
Sent To : Middle and Near East Regional A
Material Shipped:
Histoplasma capsulatum var. farciminosum (ATCC 32136)
Class III pathogen
Date : May 2, 1986
Sent To : Ministry of Higher Education
Materials Shipped:
1. Bacillus Anthracis Cohn (ATCC 10)
Batch # 08-20-82 (2 each)
Class III pathogen
2. Bacillus Subtilis (Ehrenberg) Cohn (ATCC 82)
Batch # 06-20-84 (2 each)
3. Clostridium botulinum Type A (ATCC 3502)
Batch # 07-07-81 (3 each)
Class III pathogen
4. Clostridium perfringens (Weillon and Zuber) Hauduroy, et al (ATCC 3624)
Batch # 10-85SV (2 each)
5. Bacillus subtilis (ATCC 6051)
Batch # 12-06-84 (2 each)
6. Francisella tularensis var. tularensis Olsufiev (ATCC 6223)
Batch # 05-14-79 (2 each)
Avirulent, suitable for preparations of diagnotic antigens
7. Clostridium tetani (ATCC 9441)
Batch # 03-84 (3 each)
Highly toxigenic
8. Clostridium botulinum Type E (ATCC 9564)
Batch # 03-02-79 (2 each)
Class III pathogen
9. Clostridium tetani (ATCC 10779)
Batch # 04-24-84S (3 each)
10. Clostridium perfringens (ATCC 12916)
Batch #08-14-80 (2 each)
Agglutinating type 2
11. Clostridium perfringens (ATCC 13124)
Batch #07-84SV (3 each)
Type A, alpha-toxigenic, produces lecithinase C.J. Appl.
12. Bacillus Anthracis (ATCC 14185)
Batch #01-14-80 (3 each)
G.G. Wright (Fort Detrick)
V770-NP1-R. Bovine Anthrax
Class III pathogen
13. Bacillus Anthracis (ATCC 14578)
Batch #01-06-78 (2 each)
Class III pathogen
14. Bacillus megaterium (ATCC 14581)
Batch #04-18-85 (2 each)
15. Bacillus megaterium (ATCC 14945)
Batch #06-21-81 (2 each)
16. Clostridium botulinum Type E (ATCC 17855)
Batch # 06-21-71
Class III pathogen
17. Bacillus megaterium (ATCC 19213)
Batch #3-84 (2 each)
Saddam,
February 20th, 2007 at 5:54 pmMake sure you don’t make weapons out these!
(wink,wink)-D. Rumsfeld
The peace loving French on the other hand, were not so discriminating and all sorts of attack craft and weapons, even beating out China to the tune of $5.6 billion (12.7%). The Soviets of course were #1 with almost 70% of sales.
Comment by Bic — February 20, 2007 @ 5:50 pm
I don’t care what the French did; I care about what my government did.
February 20th, 2007 at 5:57 pmTHis is a link to the report
http://www.sipri.org/contents/armstrad/TIV_imp_IRQ_75-05.pdf/download
I cited it yesterday on Digg
http://www.digg.com/world_news/Iran_Uses_Photoshop_Fake_Pic_Reveals_US_Terror_Arms
February 20th, 2007 at 5:58 pmDate : August 31, 1987
Sent To : State Company for Drug Industries
Materials Shipped:
1. Saccharomyces cerevesiae (ATCC 2601)
Batch # 08-28-08 (1 each)
2. Salmonella choleraesuis subsp. choleraesuis Serotype typhi (ATCC 6539)
Batch # 06-86S (1 each)
3. Bacillus subtillus (ATCC 6633)
Batch # 10-85 (2 each)
4. Klebsiella pneumoniae subsp. pneumoniae (ATCC 10031)
Batch # 08-13-80 (1 each)
5. Escherichia coli (ATCC 10536)
Batch # 04-09-80 (1 each)
6. Bacillus cereus (11778)
Batch #05-85SV (2 each)
7. Staphylococcus epidermidis (ATCC 12228)
Batch # 11-86s (1 each)
8. Bacillus pumilus (ATCC 14884)
Batch # 09-08-80 (2 each)
Saddam need more?
February 20th, 2007 at 5:59 pmLove, Donald
Nat: Why are you posting false evidence? You say over and over there were no WMD so you can’t have it both ways.
February 20th, 2007 at 6:01 pmOnce again, all the rest of your arguments are based on your opinion. I’m not discounting that oil was a major part of the decision to invade but if that was the only reason and all they wanted was oil there were much better ways to go about it. Hell, Canada has the worlds largest oil reserves and is also the largest supplier to the US. If they wanted cheaper oil they could just invest more into oil shale/sands extraction technology and not have to worry about dealing with the most hostile region on the planet.
Comment by Bic — February 20, 2007 @ 5:50 pm
They needed to get a foothold in the Middle East. As Dick Cheney said:
February 20th, 2007 at 6:04 pm
Nat: Why are you posting false evidence? You say over and over there were no WMD so you can’t have it both ways.
Comment by Vince P — February 20, 2007 @ 6:01 pm
Saddam used the weapons we sold him on his people. And when he ran out, we sold him some more.
February 20th, 2007 at 6:07 pmAnd yes it was stupid to allow the sale of those agents to in the first place Iraq but even in the cases of biological agents the recovered samples from Hussein’s research/weapon facilities included a lot more than what was sold to him by the various American firms.
So is your contention that any stupid decisions made by an administration in the past (and this probably wouldn’t even make the top 10) should give a free ride to brutal dictators in the present and the future?
February 20th, 2007 at 6:09 pmThe fact that Saddam was a major destabilizing force in the region as well as in continual violation of UN sanctions (including constantly firing on UN forces patrolling the no-fly zones) as well as pretending to have large stockpiles of WMDs (which contrary to popular left wing belief everyone, even his own generals, believed he had) were also important in the decision to finally take action on a resolution that was passed under the Clinton administration.
Comment by Bic — February 20, 2007 @ 5:50 pm
-There are a lot of countries in violation of UN resolutions. That doesn’t mean we bomb them.
-Saddam said on many occasions he didn’t have any WMDs. Why didn’t you believe him?
-The resolution under Clinton said specifically not to invade. It was to fund opposition groups in Iraq but the republican controlled Congress denied him the funds.
February 20th, 2007 at 6:13 pmSo is your contention that any stupid decisions made by an administration in the past (and this probably wouldn’t even make the top 10) should give a free ride to brutal dictators in the present and the future?
Comment by Bic — February 20, 2007 @ 6:09 pm
Again, the Neocons should have sold the war that way and see what type of response they would have gotten from the Congress.
February 20th, 2007 at 6:16 pmNat: “Saddam said on many occasions he didn’t have any WMDs. Why didn’t you believe him?”
That takes the cake for funniest line I’ve seen all day.
And it doesn’t matter how the war was sold, there were a lot of reasons given to invade.
The far left, including may Democrats at the time and now the vast majority of them, just chose the points they thought they could make the most political hay out of and ignored all the rest. Whenever someone brings up the fact that various other cases for the invasion were made pre-war they are usually just ignored or in your case, dismissed as “why didn’t they say that then”. Apparently even a direct quote from the President more than a week prior to the vote explaining humanitarian reasons for the invasion is not enough to make you believe that any other explanations besides oil were given.
Oddly enough, if you look at the quotes of the day it was the Dems, many who are now or were previously running for POTUS, who were making the most noise over Saddam and WMDs.
February 20th, 2007 at 6:33 pmI have a lot of those types of quotes on my website
http://vincep312.home.comcast.net/iraqquotes.html
February 21st, 2007 at 8:37 pm[...] calculation — if it is in fact under review at the White House — comes on the heels of a report showing that a disproportionate amount of the burden of fighting this war is being borne by small [...]
February 22nd, 2007 at 7:15 amEd,
a follow up to the attacker story can be found here.
I know it’s Michelle Malkin’s site so people like you who are determined to try and ignore the obvious will use that as a excuse to dismiss the entire thing but here’s a link directly to the CBS video as well as one of Andrew Stones Facebook groups (you probably need a Facebook account to see this one).
My favorite part, his rant about how right-wingers are brutish thugs. This from a guy who hunted down a political opponent, tricked his way into his house and then proceeded to attack him and his roommate because of a difference of opinions. A classic example of the far left thought process (and notice I explicit state far left as most sane liberals understand that people can have a difference of opinions).
February 22nd, 2007 at 10:59 amNow, what exactly does this article prove? It seems everyone’s posts I read (about ½ of them – and that took a while) missed it. So, there is a disproportionate number of casulaties from small towns with a per capital less than the national average.
Well, considering that this is from the AP (purveyors of the world’s best anti-western propaganda – and if you can’t see that, you’re really not paying attention to the news out of the Middle East, or France, or England, or San Francisco….), you can bet that the goal of the article is to beat down Bush. After all, everything is his fault, right? I mean, there never would have been a Pearl Harbor if it wasn’t for his family being greedy and shutting off all the oil to Japan, right? The Bushes started it all!!! (gag)
Does anyone here remember that we have an ALL VOLUNTEER force?!? A guy who sits right next to me at work said it best. He volunteered for the Marines right out of high school, because he was in a little town in Vermont and he wanted to get out and do something with his life. His parents didn’t have the money to send him to anything more than community college, and he was sick of living in the same 15 sq mile area his whole life. Now, he’s got a Software Engineering degree and is a level 2 engineer. All it cost him was 5 years service and a couple of years on the line in South Korea.
Now, what’s the chance that the vast majority of kids in these “lower than national per capita average small towns” followed the exact same thought process? I’m betting it’s a pretty damn good chance.
Where is the vaunted liberal support of these brave people? They knew what they were getting into… you can’t take a military oath upon induction, nor learn how to shoot a rifle, without realizing what you’re in for. Why would all the “progressives” label them as sheep to the slaughter, when I thought that the poor and disadvantaged were exactly the crowd that the left is supposed to consider their primary voter base?
Oh, maybe it’s because they volunteered to defend this country from all enemies, and to obey the orders given to them by their commander-in-chief, the President, instead of sitting in Starbucks cracking away on their laptops about how their Weltanschauung is so superior to everyone else’s, and anyone who doesn’t tow the line of the group-think-tank über-left should get off their elitist, there-is-no-God-given planet.
So, since joining the military to make a better life for yourself is clearly not allowed, no matter that your family lives in a poor sub-national-average small town and you didn’t win any scholarships (how many people here went to college on scholarships, huh?), what would the progressives have these would-be soldiers do? Work at the local Midas and change your oil for you? Is that acceptable?
Maybe this disproportionate collection of disadvantaged young people saw their options, didn’t like them, and volunteered to serve their country in exchange for a potentially better life. Trouble is, it is the MILITARY, and in wars people die. The US didn’t start this war… and if you think we did, I suggest reading about the actions of al Qaeda, Iran, Hezbollah, Iraq, Hamas and other Islamic Fundamentalist terrorist groups from some date before March 2003. If you think all the attacks on the US for the last 30 years is because we are in Iraq, finally fighting back, you have an interesting perspective on logical consequences.
No matter that more people die in auto accidents every month in the US (go look it up if you don’t believe me) than US soldiers have been killed in this whole war so far… disproportionate number of casualties from small towns?! That must be the work of the money-hungry, worker-trodding rich, right? Welcome to your own little world of elitism. Go ask Murtha, Clinton, Kerry or Edwards about being rich and powerful… they know all about it. Then, tell me, what YOU are going to propose that will keep a disproportionate number of people from small, disadvantaged towns from joining the military, serving this country, and placing their lives in harm’s way for your life. Funny, I thought this nation became great because of people just like this. You read the stories of Silver Star, Service Crosses and Medal of Honor recipients, and it always seems to say “from a small town in [insert state].” I thought these people comprised our nation’s heroes.
Silly me – thanks progressives for showing me that there should be some arbitrary selection process for military service, like, I dunno, a draft… so we all have an equal chance of serving, regardless of our will, ability, circumstance, or beliefs. Oh, wait, we had that for a while… and the left all burned their draft cards and carried North Vietnam flags around school campuses (in WWII they would have been thrown in jail for sedition – by a democrat President, no less).
Hmm, so that won’t work… I give up. Apart from hearing that the left simply hates the military, because maybe it demonstrates in a real and tangible way that their utopian socialist world-state is impractical, and that people, nevermind nations, do not get along well enough to live hand-in-hand with every person in their neighborhood, I’d like to know what do the progressives want, then?!? Let’s hear it…
February 26th, 2007 at 2:19 pm