ThinkFast: February 21, 2007
ThinkFast: February 21, 2007
Asked about Tony Blair’s announcement today that the U.K. will cut troop levels in Iraq by 1,600 — from 7,100 down to 5,500 — Vice President Dick Cheney “said the move was actually good news and a sign of progress in Iraq.” Later in the day, he told a group of U.S. troops, “I want you to know that the American people will not support a policy of retreat.”
Denmark is expected to follow Britain’s lead and announce plans to withdraw its 460 troops from Iraq.
“Most of the Justice Department’s major statistics on terrorism cases are highly inaccurate, and federal prosecutors routinely count cases involving drug trafficking, marriage fraud and other unrelated crimes as part of anti-terrorism efforts,” according to a government audit.
Sectarian tensions have heightened since a Sunni woman announced on Al Jazeera on Monday that she was kidnapped and raped by three officers from the Iraqi National Police has highlighted sectarian tensions. At first Prime Minister Maliki, a Shiite, vowed to investigate, “but a few hours later condemned the woman, said she was a criminal, announced the three officers would be honored,” and made her name public.
“Six years into Mr. Bush’s presidency, the corps of loyal Texans who accompanied him to Washington from Austin remains a powerful force inside the administration, a steady source of comfort for an increasingly isolated president. No matter how grim the polls or dire the news in Iraq, they have stood by Mr. Bush — and been rewarded with plum jobs.”
U.S. spending on health care is “expected to double to $4.1 trillion over the next decade, up from $2.1 trillion in 2006,” economists from the National Health Statistics Group found. Health insurance premiums are expected to rise 6 percent annually.
“The rate of fatal terrorist attacks around the world by jihadist groups, and the number of people killed in those attacks, increased dramatically after the invasion of Iraq,” a study by Mother Jones concluded. Even with terrorist acts in Iraq and Afghanistan excluded from the data, “there has been a 35 percent rise in the number of attacks, with a 12 percent rise in fatalities.”
European Union ministers pledged yesterday to cut greenhouse gas emissions “30 percent below 1990 levels by 2020, from a current pledge of 20 percent, but only if other heavy polluters” — such as the United States — “joined in.”
And finally: The crocodile tears were flowing at the Libby trial yesterday. After prosecutors “presented a detailed and businesslike summing up of their case” against Scooter Libby, Libby’s chief defense lawyer — Theodore Wells — “countered with an intensely emotional defense ending in a choked sob.” “He’s been under my protection for the last month,” Wells told the jury. “I give him to you. Give him back to me.” “With that, Mr. Wells teared up, sobbed audibly and sat down.”
What did we miss? Let us know in the comments section.
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Hmm, which political party has ACTUAL ties to terrorists?
Ah, terrorists just love the Repuke party because they’re willing to engage in phony wars which justifies their actions.
Priceless?
February 21st, 2007 at 9:08 amAsked about Tony Blair’s announcement today that the U.K. will cut troop levels in Iraq by 1,600 — from 7,100 down to 5,500 — Vice President Dead Eye Dick Cheney “said the move was actually good news and a sign of progress in Iraq.†Later in the day, he told a group of U.S. troops, “I want you to know that the American people will not support a policy of retreat.â€
A play of words…
February 21st, 2007 at 9:11 amA policy of retreat is equivalent to failure
A policy of withdrawal is equivalent to bringing the troops back home, safely!
The majority of American people support a policy of withdrawal, just like those dam ‘Brits are doing!!!
What an accomplishment. cheney can talk out of both sides of his mouth at once; one side says one thing and the other side says exactly the opposite.
I don’t see any problem with the US ignoring the rest of the world’s attempt to reduce greenhouse gases. We will have the “clear skies initiative” that will fix everything.
Anyone can see that w’s invasion and occupation of Iraq has succeeded beyond his wildest dreams. It was “mission accomplished” nearly four years ago. Forcing these few thousand troops to extend their tours or to be redeployed in Iraq is just a mere tweak to consolidate the solid democracy that has been established there.
February 21st, 2007 at 9:18 amIs cheney still in an undisclosed location. He sure has to be to make the statement that the American people do not support retreat. No..all the heck they want is for the elected –got that— elected officials do their bidding…AND THAT’S GETTING OUT OF IRAQ.
February 21st, 2007 at 9:19 amU.S. spending on prescription drugs, hospital care and other health services is expected to double to $4.1 trillion over the next decade, up from $2.1 trillion in 2006, a government report released on Wednesday found.
February 21st, 2007 at 9:27 amTho theoritically this is good news for me (a co owner of a long term care pharmacy), I just can’t possibly fanthom the little man being able to pay for these increases.
and with the continued cuts in Medicaid….YIKES!
Now may be a good time to buy stock in caskets, me thinks!
Cooking the books AGAIN to make the war on “terrrrr” appear more successful than it really has been:
The house of cards is so vulnerable to slight changes in the breeze…
Here’s to a Democratic majority! CHEERS!
February 21st, 2007 at 9:29 am“U.S. spending on health care is “expected to double to $4.1 trillion over the next decade, up from $2.1 trillion in 2006,†economists from the National Health Statistics Group found. Health insurance premiums are expected to rise 6 percent annually.”
Isn’t it a good thing that the health care spending on our returning veterans will be reduced begining in 2009? Just in time for all the disabled veterans to have less health care! Could you imagine how much the cost would be if they actually fully funded the VA for all our returning troops?
Way to go, Republicans!
/sarcasm
February 21st, 2007 at 9:31 amNeither Republicans norThe Democrats are willing to discuss why we’re in Iraq: OIL.
February 21st, 2007 at 9:35 amDon’t expect them to bring the troops home.
Don’t expect them to “end” the war, when they can’t even discuss openly why it was started in the first place.
Imagine what those billions of dollars spent on destroyong Iraq could do in this country right now??? Just imagine…..
February 21st, 2007 at 9:35 amAsked about Tony Blair’s announcement today that the U.K. will cut troop levels in Iraq by 1,600 — from 7,100 down to 5,500 — Vice President Dick Cheney “said the move was actually good news and a sign of progress in Iraq.â€
It’s so simple. We can have a win-win situation. Withdraw U.S. troops and spin it as a sign of progress in Iraq. After all, it’s not the reality of the situation that’s important. It’s how it’s perceived.
February 21st, 2007 at 9:44 amJust imagine…..
New schools, teacher pay raises, small business loans, improved senior health care, improved infrastucture, levees, no national debt, better Homeland Security, stronger economy, lower interest rates, stability, and basically just reinvesting in America.
Wow.
February 21st, 2007 at 9:46 amIt is time to do the math regarding the following statement.
“U.S. spending on health care is “expected to double to $4.1 trillion over the next decade, up from $2.1 trillion in 2006,†economists from the National Health Statistics Group found. Health insurance premiums are expected to rise 6 percent annually.”
If premiums go up a little over 60% over the next 10 years while health care spending goes up by 100% we have a huge gap to account for. Who will be paying for this nearly 40% gap between insurance and costs? Hint: it won’t be the insurance companies. The government will pick up some of it but most of it will be born by people losing coverage (continuing a current trend), higher deductables, higher co-pays and an expansion of services dropped from coverage, all part of current trends.
Lastly, this report is highly optimistic. Unrealistic, I would say. Health insurance premiums are currently increasing faster than 6%. There is no explaniation for why this group things that the increases will sudden slow down. With the aging Baby Boomers there is no way that health care spending will only double over the next 10 years. My question is who funds the “National Health Statistics Group”? When we know that answer we should know why they are so far off the mark.
February 21st, 2007 at 9:49 amWell with the british and Danish contingent leaving it will be open season on American troops, thats cool
February 21st, 2007 at 9:52 amCould we have a new policy that no matter what the subject matter, you never accompany a story with Cheney’s evil mug?
Pretty please?
February 21st, 2007 at 9:52 amTheodore Wells — “countered with an intensely emotional defense ending in a choked sob.†“He’s been under my protection for the last month,†Wells told the jury. “I give him to you. Give him back to me.†“With that, Mr. Wells teared up, sobbed audibly and sat down.â€
Oh good lord, how sappy can you get. I hope Wells is nominated for a Razzy award.
February 21st, 2007 at 9:53 amcheney told a group of U.S. troops, “I want you to know that the American people will not support a policy of retreat.â€
imagine the groan that rumbled through that crowd…
he really thinks they are stupid… they know it’s not “retreat”…
February 21st, 2007 at 9:58 amEvery time he is interviewed or makes a speech…
…Dick Cheney exhibits his contempt for the American people…
…he does so with impunity because…
…L’il Dick (unlike the rest of us) is SAFE…
…he can do whatever he likes because he has the power of the Secret service, and law enforcement to protect his every move…
…he doesn’t walk, fly commercially, or drive himself anywhere…
…he is insulated in a highly protected bubble…
…so unless the people are ready to put serious pressure on the Congress…
…through YOUR Repulsivescum family members, neighbors, co-workers, church members, friends and acquaitences…
…you know who they are…
…to IMPEACH and INCARCERATE and IMPOVERISH these criminals…
…L’il Dick and Bushiva et al will continue to spit in the people’s faces…
February 21st, 2007 at 10:03 amsometimes people cry when they get pulled over, hoping to get out of a ticket. that’s essentially what libby’s defense used for their closing argument.
February 21st, 2007 at 10:04 amNow think about it. How much of a leap is it to go from labeling the crime to labeling the accused?
Busts for drug crimes skyrocketed following the passage of the Patriot Act, therefore all those busts were, technically, part of the “anti-terrorism effort.” Those statistics were used to make it seem like there were far more “terrorists” in the United States than what most of us would consider as “terrorits.” Now that that little word play has been discovered, could it be possible that the Administration will now label those people as “unlawful enemy combatants”?
And if they were subjected to “coercive interrogation” techniques, I bet we could uncover a whole networks of active “terrorist cells” active within the United States.
Remember, once apprehended by the government, you don’t get the protections of the Constitution if the government does’t let you; if you just “disappear.” And this government has admitted to keeping people in secret prisons.
February 21st, 2007 at 10:09 amthis pisses me off… should have known merck – and greed, no doubt – was behind this…
Merck Stops Campaign to Mandate Gardasil Vaccine Use (Update3)
By Shannon Pettypiece and Angela Zimm
Feb. 20 (Bloomberg) — Merck & Co. will stop lobbying state officials to require that girls receive the company’s Gardasil cervical cancer vaccine before they can attend school.
Merck made the decision after groups including the American Academy of Pediatrics said there wasn’t enough state funding to pay for the $360 vaccine or public acceptance, said Rick Haupt, director of medical affairs for Merck’s vaccine division, in a telephone interview today.
February 21st, 2007 at 10:15 am[...]
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=atbGQuDYx7_c&refer=home
another twist on the cheny twist…
US will ‘leave Iraq with honour’
Peter Alford, Tokyo correspondent
February 22, 2007
THE US would stay on the offensive in Iraq, Vice-President Dick Cheney said yesterday, because otherwise “the enemy is going to come after us”.
Speaking at the US naval base inYokosuka, Mr Cheney said Japan was “one of America’s closes allies” in the struggle against global terrorism.
“We know that terrorist attacks are not caused by the use of strength; they are invited by the perception of weakness,” said Mr Cheney, who will bring his no-retreat message to Australia on a visit starting tonight.
“We know that if we leave Iraq before the mission is completed, the enemy is going to come after us.
“We want to complete the mission, we want to get it right and then we want to come home with honour,” Mr Cheney said, in a thundering speech that may have been aimed in part at critics of US policy within Prime Minister Shinzo Abe’s government.
February 21st, 2007 at 10:17 am[...]
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21266560-31477,00.html
Sectarian tensions have heightened since a Sunni woman announced on Al Jazeera on Monday that she was kidnapped and raped by three officers from the Iraqi National Police has highlighted sectarian tensions. At first Prime Minister Maliki, a Shiite, vowed to investigate, “but a few hours later condemned the woman, said she was a criminal, announced the three officers would be honored,†and made her name public.
Maliki should be shot for putting this woman’s life in even more danger.
February 21st, 2007 at 10:22 amI was hoping people picked up on that. I hope the WH press Corpse drills Tony Snow about it. “Are the British our allies or what? They are retreating, according to Bush’s and Cheney’s viewpoint. Is Tony Blair cutting and running?” Spin it, Snowjob, Spin it.
February 21st, 2007 at 10:24 am“He’s been under my protection for the last month,†Wells told the jury. “I give him to you. Give him back to me.†“With that, Mr. Wells teared up, sobbed audibly and sat down.â€
What a drama queen. He sounds like he’s sending his baby girl off to the prom with the local lecher.
February 21st, 2007 at 10:25 am# 21 Zooey,
February 21st, 2007 at 10:25 amYeah, this is how America supports bringing democracy to Iraq. Makes me want to throw up.
My question is who funds the “National Health Statistics Group� Comment by DallasNE — February 21, 2007 @ 9:49 am
The Federal Government provides its funding. But I wouldn’t say they’re way off the mark. There are factors you haven’t mentioned which would alter the numbers. For example, only a portion of the insurance industry’s income is from premiums. The bulk comes from investing. And investing in the Defense Industry and Oil Companies is sure to bring in substantial returns over the next 30 years.
Next, health care costs will be constrained as those with costly diseases can no loger afford treatment; they will simply die. That’s a pragmatic reality of our current health care system. The wealthy will get health care, the poor and middle class will die for lack of health care. It’s already happening now to the poorest of our society. It will spread as the government cuts back on medicaid and other health programs for the poor in order to balance the budget. It will spread further as Companies cut back on providing health care for their workers in order to boost profits, or simply close up shop here and move even more plants overseas, firing even more American workers.
February 21st, 2007 at 10:25 am“Mr. Snow, how does the president view the retreat of almost all of the coalition? Will he stand up to these other coalition partners as they cut and run?”
February 21st, 2007 at 10:26 am#21 Zooey,
February 21st, 2007 at 10:28 amYes, this is how America supports democracy in Iraq. It makes me want to throw up.
Sorry for the repeat.
February 21st, 2007 at 10:29 amYeah, this is how America supports bringing democracy to Iraq. Makes me want to throw up.
Comment by Bluedahlia
The Iraqi women are starting to get a little uppity — reporting being raped, and then expecting protection. The nerve of them.
February 21st, 2007 at 10:29 am/sarcasm
Zooey,
February 21st, 2007 at 10:35 amI can only pray, that like the feminist movement here not all that long ago, these couragous women who stand up now, will have not done so completely in vain. I hope that this woman standing up and demanding rights ignights the fire of a movement for women in her country that doesn’t go out. She is indeed a brave woman. Here, doing what she did means nothing; there it is almost inconcievable.
and remember Zooey, during Saddam’s reign, women were treated equally. They were given postitions of political power, able to attend universities, and were part of the working class. (albeit they had to be supporters of Saddam)
February 21st, 2007 at 10:36 amNow?
A resurgence of the Taliban mentality, I’m afraid.
“Sectarian tensions have heightened since a Sunni woman announced on Al Jazeera on Monday that she was kidnapped and raped by three officers from the Iraqi National Police has highlighted sectarian tensions. At first Prime Minister Maliki, a Shiite, vowed to investigate, “but a few hours later condemned the woman, said she was a criminal, announced the three officers would be honored,†and made her name public.”
Maliki is taking a page out of the book of his counterpart Musharaff in Pakistan. Blame the victim, criminalize her, and exonerate and “honor” (sic) the rapists. That’s simply barbaric. Iraq is rapidly receding into a medieval society. Another heck of a job brought to by the Cheney-Bush Corporation. I am sure Iraqi women feel really safe.
February 21st, 2007 at 10:36 amOff topic, sorry, but that thread is too long and too full of trolls….
February 21st, 2007 at 10:40 amOn my campus not too long ago, they had a protest (incited by the president of the college repub) about having too many liberal/left leaning speakers on campus. People with signs saying to do away with liberal media bias. I actually wanted to go over and spit on them (not that I did of course). And this from a college in one o the most red states in the country. Made me sick….
We had Al Gore speak and he was sold out, must have made someone angry…….
Yes, well, the Iraqi government showed those women how much protection they will receive. The initial news release identified the woman. And some fundamentalist Muslims believe that a woman who has sex with a man not her husband should be stoned to death, even if she was a rape victim. (They take the “Thou shalt not commit adultery” a bit more seriously than Western Culture.)
Releasing the woman’s identity certainly will have a deterrant effect, keeping other women who get raped from reporting the crime. It is, after all, one way to claim that the incidences of rape have fallen dramatically.
February 21st, 2007 at 10:40 am“…Mr. Wells teared up, sobbed audibly and sat down.â€
Isn’t that what losers are expected to do?
There will be rivers of tears when King George the Dumb and The Dick get their turn in the barrel. However, most of those tears, including mine, will be tears of joy>
February 21st, 2007 at 10:41 amjust heard on sam’s show… really interesting… check it out…
School’s in! Show regular Jack Hitt is rebutting the claims of our conservative callers on “enemy combatants” and habeas corpus. You can listen (after our show!) to his segment on “This American Life” about habeas. (Got to “thislife.org” and search for “habeas schmabeas.”
http://www.thislife.org/pages/descriptions/06/310.html
those callers were scary… “execute them ALL!”… yeesh…
February 21st, 2007 at 10:44 ami hate stoopid…
She is indeed a brave woman. Here, doing what she did means nothing; there it is almost inconcievable.
Comment by Bluedahlia
Absolutely. If she survives this, it will be a miracle.
February 21st, 2007 at 10:47 amNow?
A resurgence of the Taliban mentality, I’m afraid.
Comment by DRxJ
I hate it when I would prefer the return of a murderous dictator.
February 21st, 2007 at 10:49 amI don’t know if anyone has mentioned this yet, but Lithuania also announced that it is pulling out its troops along with Denmark and Britain.
February 21st, 2007 at 10:49 am31, 32. Iraq is an Islamic Theocracy, according to its Constitution, drafted after the invasion and during the occupation by the United States.
This is Bush’s wonderous creation of “freedom and democracy” and imposition of the “rule of law” in the Middle East.
But really, isn’t Malaki’s tactic essentially the same as that which is so frequently employed by the Bush Administration? Look at what was done to Joe Wilson, for example, or Murtha, or Sheehan, or Obama, or Kerry, or Gore, or the Generals who disagreed with Bush, or the U.S. Attorneys investigating Republicans, etc., etc., etc.
February 21st, 2007 at 10:50 amAnd this from a college in one o the most red states in the country. Made me sick….
We had Al Gore speak and he was sold out, must have made someone angry…….
Comment by Bluedahlia
Oh my god, I would have thought BSU would be slightly more liberal, but I guess I was follig myself. Apparently just one Al Gore speech is so powerful, it drives the wingnuts to whine their rights are being trampled.
February 21st, 2007 at 10:51 amWAAAAH!
It is, after all, one way to claim that the incidences of rape have fallen dramatically.
Comment by Briseadh na Faire
True. Maybe we should do that here — the reports of rape in this country are staggering. /sarcasm
It’s bad enough that they call the woman a criminal and report her name, but why on earth do they then “honor” the rapists? Unbelievable.
February 21st, 2007 at 10:53 am“He’s been under my protection for the last month,†Wells told the jury. “I give him to you. Give him back to me.†“With that, Mr. Wells teared up, sobbed audibly and sat down.â€
This is so pathetic that I am at a loss for words.
February 21st, 2007 at 10:59 ambut why on earth do they then “honor†the rapists? Unbelievable.
Comment by Zooey — February 21, 2007 @ 10:53 am
and the hypocracy of it all?
February 21st, 2007 at 11:00 amThe Koran strictly forbids sex outside of marriage.
So unless all three men were married to the victim, they have gone against their own religious beliefs, and with the Prime Minister’s backing!
Iraqi democracy at it’s finest!
#41 BnF,
February 21st, 2007 at 11:02 amIt looks like we have it backwards, instead of democracy for Iraq we have…..
“Islamic” (insert religion of choice among quotes) theocracy…coming soon to a country near you!
So unless all three men were married to the victim, they have gone against their own religious beliefs, and with the Prime Minister’s backing!
Iraqi democracy at it’s finest!
Comment by DRxJ
If this weren’t a woman hating thing, the three men would be in trouble as well, and their names would be made public.
Either way, the women are screwed over. Literally.
February 21st, 2007 at 11:05 amWARNING OF RIGHTS
February 21st, 2007 at 11:09 am(modified for those accused of being an unlawful enemy combatant)
1. You have the right to remain silent and refuse to answer questions. Do you understand?
You can maintain that right for as long as you can hold your breath under water.
2. Anything you do say may be used against you in a court of law. Do you understand?
Anything we tell you to say while you are being waterboarded will be used against you.
3. You have the right to consult an attorney before speaking to the police and to have an attorney present during questioning now or in the future. Do you understand?
You have a right to consult what ever entity you pray to, and have Him present during questioning.
4. If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed for you before any questioning if you wish. Do you understand?
If you cannot afford an attorney, we’ll handpick one for you, but you’ll never be allowed to communicate with your attorney anyway, so it really won’t matter.
5. If you decide to answer questions now without an attorney present you will still have the right to stop answering at any time until you talk to an attorney. Do you understand?
If you decide to answer questions now without an attorney present you will still have the right to stop answering at any time until you come up for air.
6. Knowing and understanding your rights as I have explained them to you, are you willing to answer my questions without an attorney present?
(to be asked when the enemy combatant is firmly secured to the waterboard.)
Zooey,
We have some great professors here that still teach based on intelligence and science. However, their words are carefully measured because as soon as they state something that can be considered “politcal” even if it is backed by what they are teaching, the reich jump all over them. And in this state, those freaks have a lot of money and power behind them. ….I guess all those freaks have a lot of money and power behind them, it is how they keep it…. Sorry redundant statement.
I’m so sorry if science, critical thinking has a liberal bias…
February 21st, 2007 at 11:09 amMuslims sees women as an evil object cuz they drive men mad with their charms and tender traps (heh). It is the same mythology of sirens: haunting chants in the sea that drive men crazy that produced wreckages. The mythology of witches: evil, bad women around a foaming pot speaking forbidden words in order to bring doom over people.
These are the results of thousands of years of human civilization where men are afraid of women.
Christianity, Islam and Jew religions put the women in a secondary place, at best. I dont know how any self-respecting women can adopt one of these 3 religions. Sorry.
February 21st, 2007 at 11:11 amI’m so sorry if science, critical thinking has a liberal bias…
Comment by Bluedahlia
I couldn’t believe it, on the first day of semester three of my professors (Geology, Sociology & Anthropology) had to give disclaimers to the students. Basically, this is a class that deals with facts and the scientific method; there is no religion in this class and there will be no debate; if you don’t like it — leave now.
Obviously, it’s been a problem.
February 21st, 2007 at 11:16 amChristianity, Islam and Jew religions put the women in a secondary place, at best. I dont know how any self-respecting women can adopt one of these 3 religions. Sorry.
Comment by Juan C
I agree, Juan. I am the only non-christian in my family — all women, except my father.
To add to your statement, Juan, I don’t know how any self-respecting woman can be female and not be a feminist. I don’t get that.
February 21st, 2007 at 11:18 am[...] Blogger Opinions: Don Surber; Blue Crab Boulevard; The Moderate Voice; DownWithTyranny; Think Progress Memeorandum (great blog roundup) Technorati Tags:Â Bush, Cheney, Current Events, Headline [...]
February 21st, 2007 at 11:19 amJuan,
February 21st, 2007 at 11:19 amThat is one of the MANY reasons I am a secular humanist. You know, it takes a truely strong man (integrity, honesty, secure) to be partners with a strong woman. I think most take the easy way out and oppress instead.
#47 – Briseadh na Faire
Sadly, those are our new “rights.”
February 21st, 2007 at 11:20 amanother heard on sam:
Maybe We Deserve to Be Ripped Off By Bush’s Billionaires
By Matt Taibbi, RollingStone.com. Posted February 20, 2007.
While America obsessed about Brittany’s shaved head, Bush offered a budget that offers $32.7 billion in tax cuts to the Wal-Mart family alone, while cutting $28 billion from Medicaid.
What was she thinking? How about nothing? How about who gives a shit? How’s that for an answer, Sheila Marikar of ABC news, you pinhead?
February 21st, 2007 at 11:23 am[...]
http://www.alternet.org/columnists/story/48278/
.
To add to your statement, Juan, I don’t know how any self-respecting woman can be female and not be a feminist. I don’t get that.
I honestly lol at that! It is so obvious to people like us, but so completely inconcievable to most.
February 21st, 2007 at 11:25 amThanks for the laugh :-D
Zoo and Blue:
However, taking religion as a humanist philosophy doctrine where one is told that peace should prevail and that you have to love your neighbor (dont know the translation of prójimo), I think it´s a good idea. The problem is when religion becomes institution. I dont respect the institution of religion, to be told what to do, who and how to pray, etc.
Now, i dont think it should be a competition of women and men. Differences are great (as in good) in some cases. And I cant negate the fact that from a male´s POV women are really puzzling, charming and mysterious cretaures…which is good.
February 21st, 2007 at 11:28 amGotta get to class. Thanks for the discussion everyone!
February 21st, 2007 at 11:28 amBasically, this is a class that deals with facts and the scientific method; there is no religion in this class and there will be no debate; if you don’t like it — leave now.
Comment by Zooey — February 21, 2007 @ 11:16 am
Herein lies the problem. I’m a proud Christian, and take my faith seriously. I expect to learn about the Bible, and Christianity, at……..CHURCH! I never expected my pharmacology classes to inject divine intervention into a scientific method.
February 21st, 2007 at 11:29 amSubstance A affects Cells B because of both organic chemical makeup resulting in change of the autonomic nervous system, not because God wanted it that way
I don’t know how any self-respecting woman can be female and not be a feminist. I don’t get that.
February 21st, 2007 at 11:31 amComment by Zooey — February 21, 2007 @ 11:18 am
It some sort of deranged way, I think you’ve aroused the intellict (oxymoron?) of a certain individual just by stating feminist.
Who could ever that be?
And I cant negate the fact that from a male´s POV women are really puzzling, charming and mysterious cretaures…which is good.
Comment by Juan C
We (or at least, I) feel the same way about men, Juan, we just don’t admit it. :)
The differences between men and women are just too wonderful. Why would a woman want a man to act like more like a woman? Where’s the fun in that? Heh.
February 21st, 2007 at 11:36 am“Muslims sees women as an evil object cuz they drive men mad with their charms and tender traps (heh). It is the same mythology of sirens: haunting chants in the sea that drive men crazy that produced wreckages. The mythology of witches: evil, bad women around a foaming pot speaking forbidden words in order to bring doom over people. ”
Uh.
I like how everyone failed to notice that SUNNI Muslims did not condemn her. Only Shiites did. And the reason is obvious. It’s because Al-Maliki doesn’t want to make his government look bad, while the Sunni’s are bitching about it because they want to show corrupt the government is.
It’s almost 100% sectarian.
February 21st, 2007 at 11:36 amDRxJ,
I hope you don’t think I would ever disrespect you because of your faith. I believe in live and let live. I think most people who identify themselves as Christians think the way you do. It’s the pushy loudmouths, who say we’re hurting their feelings or taking away their rights by not believing the way they do, that get all the attention.
My own sister says I’m hurting her feelings because I won’t be going to heaven. She’s not a feminist, either. :)
February 21st, 2007 at 11:40 amhttp://www.alternet.org/columnists/story/48278/
Comment by katy — February 21, 2007 @ 11:23 am
THANK YOU! Great find! My earlier post containing excerpts from the article got filtered out.
February 21st, 2007 at 11:41 amBottom 95%,
No failure to notice the Sunni/Shiite angle. I simply chose to focus on the fact that a WOMAN has apparently been raped, she reports it, her GOVERNMENT betrays her in the worst sort of way, and the MEN involved have been honored.
February 21st, 2007 at 11:46 amMy own sister says I’m hurting her feelings because I won’t be going to heaven.
Comment by Zooey
Good. No place could be that BORING. :)
February 21st, 2007 at 11:48 amI hope you don’t think I would ever disrespect you because of your faith. I believe in live and let live.
February 21st, 2007 at 11:55 amComment by Zooey — February 21, 2007 @ 11:40 am
Nope, I can safely say you’ve never disrespected my beliefs. I kinda get a chuckle from the Atheist vs Religion tangents that periodically happen. I’m here to learn (and to debate), not to bible thump my faith.
As Jesus said (paraphrasing here), ” Love thy God, and Love thy neighbors as thyself. These are the two most important commandments”
Thus I also believe in the live and let live ideology.
God will judge, I will not! Tell your sister that :-)~
Good. No place could be that BORING. :)
Comment by Juan C
You know it. :)
February 21st, 2007 at 11:56 amI’m glad that one of our world leaders, Tony Blair, is making a step in the right direction by withdrawing the troops. Now all we have to do is implement the 2000 Millennium goals one of which is to eliminate global poverty now by 2025. According to the Borgen Project it costs $19 billion to feed the world for a year while we spend $340 billion on the war in Iraq.
February 21st, 2007 at 12:10 pmTo quote ‘Animal’ when he had a glad to kill you look in his eye :
Dick . . . looks like you’re fresh out of friends .
February 21st, 2007 at 12:28 pmTHANK YOU! Great find! My earlier post containing excerpts from the article got filtered out.
Comment by Briseadh na Faire — February 21, 2007 @ 11:41 am
you’re quite welcome… sam was reading parts of it… lots of bleeps!…
February 21st, 2007 at 12:31 pm…heh…
“there has been a 35 percent rise in the number of attacks, with a 12 percent rise in fatalities.â€
February 21st, 2007 at 12:41 pmDoin a heckuva job on the rest of the world, chympass!
I don’t mean to discount what the young woman suffered Zooey, nor do I tink it didn’t happen, but a good tactic to incite anger and hate between the secterian groupings, would be to accuse the other side of rape. It is what I would do if I was an insurgent anyway.
I do think that there is this type of abuse, when you have a group of second class citizens it almost always happens. The majority tyrannizes the minority. Historical context proves this idea over and over again. The three examples that come easily to mind, are Jews in Europe, Blacks in the US, and natives in South America. I am sure we could add many others.
February 21st, 2007 at 12:49 pm“I think if we were to do what Speaker Pelosi and Congressman Murtha are suggesting, all we’ll do is validate the al Qaeda strategy,” Cheney told ABC News.
The Al Queda strategy has already been validated. It called for goading the U.S. into dropping 100-200 thousand soldiers into Iraq, where Al Queda did not operate untill March 2003. This would then enable Bin Laden to escape, the Taliban to re-surge, and every wannabe “jihad Johny” free to attack American soldiers. Pretty clever, eh? It’s amazing what one guy in a cave can do…
February 21st, 2007 at 1:03 pmMistress Z~
February 21st, 2007 at 1:13 pmThinks me, that al-Maliki is just too much like the chymp for any possible coincidence. They are cut from the same moldy mold.
When under attack, cast so much aspersion on the attacker that their credibility is always suspect.
He must have attended Rove’s seminar on smear & fear.
Re: #11
I’m not agreeing or disagreeing with what you are saying, but math was always my best subject in school. If the cost of premiums is going up 6% per year, this actually works out to a 79% increase. Therefore the gap you are discussing is 21%, if the 6% annual increase was intended this way:
100 0 (starting point)
February 21st, 2007 at 1:21 pm106 1 year
112 2 years (106 + 6% of 106)
119 3
126 4
134 5
142 6
150 7
159 8
169 9
179 10 years
Zooey,
While I think what Maliki did by announcing the womans name is detestable, I have to ask this. Are the 3 men accused of raping her actually guilty of the crime? Or is it just an accusation?
Unfortunately, we will never know. BTW, check your facebook.
February 21st, 2007 at 1:25 pmComment by katy #54
…can you post this on the TROLL network?
February 21st, 2007 at 1:27 pmTo add to your statement, Juan, I don’t know how any self-respecting woman can be female and not be a feminist. I don’t get that.
Comment by Zooey — February 21, 2007 @ 11:18 am
OK, I’ll bite. What is a feminist? Can a woman that makes the choice to stay at home, raise her children, and take care of her family a feminist?
February 21st, 2007 at 1:31 pmAre the 3 men accused of raping her actually guilty of the crime? Or is it just an accusation?
February 21st, 2007 at 1:38 pmUnfortunately, we will never know
Comment by hacker bob — February 21, 2007 @ 1:25 pm
I gotta agree with hacker bob here. We will never know if the story is true or not. But, the track record of certain factions of the Middle East and their treatment of women lead me to believe that this woman is telling the truth. Unless their was a trial by which she was proven to be lying, why announce her name?
Comment by DRxJ — February 21, 2007 @ 1:38 pm
I agree it is probably true as well for many of the same reasons you do. I have seen first hand how women are treated by certain groups over there.
February 21st, 2007 at 1:43 pm\
If I even began to treat Mrs. Robert 1/10th as bad as some women are treated over there, she would walk out the door with my “manhood” in her purse.
she would walk out the door with my “manhood†in her purse.
February 21st, 2007 at 1:50 pmComment by hacker bob — February 21, 2007 @ 1:43 pm
Not only would my wife be walking out the door with my prized possession, it would be sliced into several pieces, thus preventing any chance of reattachment.
Heh
and that’s a fact!
Comment by DRxJ — February 21, 2007 @ 1:50 pm
I can hear the commercials now with the Lorena Bobbitt voice over:
” Now, from the maker of Ginsu knives comes the Ginsu pecker-wrecker. It slices. It dices. It can make Julian fries (whatever that is). Guaranteed 100% unattachable.
Use it on cheating husbands. Use it on BEATING husbands.
Order yours today for $19.95 and we’ll throw in a free pairing knife. That’s right, you can cut off his “pair”, too.
Operators and Paramedics are standing by…”
February 21st, 2007 at 1:57 pmBobbo~ #82 ~Now that’s funny!
February 21st, 2007 at 2:04 pmBut, the track record of certain factions of the Middle East and their treatment of women lead me to believe that this woman is telling the truth.
Comment by DRxJ — February 21, 2007 @ 1:38 pm
Given the resurgence of honor killings in Iraq, this woman is putting her life on the line just by talking about it.
I tend to believe she is telling the truth. I usually do in rape allegations, but it is specially true in this case.
Maliki is an ass. Disclosing the woman’s name is beyond the pale.
February 21st, 2007 at 2:13 pm#76 – Thanks for doiing the actual math (that I was too lazy to do).
In my head I was doing a simple add of another year and coming up with 66%. Compounding is more severe than I realized. But the points are still somewhat valid. The gap is 1/5 rather than the 1/3 I was projecting. Regardless, the difference has to be made up somewhere and it won’t be the insurance companies footing that difference. Also, these numbers are low compared to recent trends so they need to be taken with a grain of salt.
February 21st, 2007 at 3:05 pmKinda off topic but
February 21st, 2007 at 3:28 pmJessica Hall faced between two and five years in prison after she was convicted last month of maliciously throwing a missile — the cup of ice — into an occupied vehicle. No one was injured in the incident last summer.
The Judge reduced her sentence to probation
Jessica happens to be black.
Meanwhile:
Suspended Gonzaga center Josh Heytvelt was charged Tuesday with felony possession of a controlled substance following his recent arrest in nearby Cheney, where police alleged they found hallucinogenic mushrooms in a gym bag in his car.
Josh happens to be white.
I wonder which sentence will be more harsh.
A black woman hurling a cup of ice at a vehicle, or a white collegiate all-star basketball player possessing illegal substances?
Any takers?
Anyone?
My bet’s on the cup throwing woman!
Comment by DRxJ — February 21, 2007 @ 3:28 pm
Ok, first lets look at the two cases. Which states did they take place in? Hall was in Virginia, Heytvelt was in Washington. Different judges and Judical systems will be applied.
Also, which case presented more of a risk to public safety? Is it the one where the kid had some drugs in his pocket for personal use, or the one where someone thew something at the operator of another motor vehicle?
Personally, I think the kids with the drugs should get at least 2 years behind bars. But I also think that the probation was more than fair for Hall.
February 21st, 2007 at 3:45 pmvery good, hacker bob…
these are the well researched, coherent rebuttals I like to see (unlike Vince P., LHT, …etc.)
As for the risk to public safety, I would think a kid having a hallucinogenic drug poses as much risk as the woman throwing ice at a vehicle.
I challenge you this,
February 21st, 2007 at 3:56 pmWhat if it’d been a black 20 year old, non college student, that had been in possession of mushrooms. Would his sentence, if convicted, be the same?
What if it’d been a white college basketball player attending Duke who threw the cup of ice. Would he get 2 years probation?
food for thought!
Are the 3 men accused of raping her actually guilty of the crime? Or is it just an accusation?
Unfortunately, we will never know. BTW, check your facebook.
Comment by hacker bob
You’re right. We’ll never know now. There was no conviction, and now therre will never even be an investigation. But this woman’s name is out there and her life is in danger.
February 21st, 2007 at 6:34 pmMy bet’s on the cup throwing woman!
Comment by DRxJ
Yup, they’ll throw the book at her.
February 21st, 2007 at 6:38 pmYup, they’ll throw the book at her.
Comment by Zooey — February 21, 2007 @ 6:38 pm
I think she has aready been sentenced.
BTW, did you get the feminism question?
OK, I’ll bite. What is a feminist? Can a woman that makes the choice to stay at home, raise her children, and take care of her family a feminist?
Comment by hacker bob — February 21, 2007 @ 1:31 pm
February 21st, 2007 at 6:42 pmAs a member of the American People, I must say “Torticola Cheney”is a BABBLING MADMAN WHO DOESN’T KNOW WHAT THE HELL HE IS SAYING–the American People WILL NOT SUPPORT a CHIMPya/Cheney cowardly policy of DEFEAT!”
February 21st, 2007 at 6:46 pmSKOAL! DENMARK, SKOAL!
What do you expect from the “Injustice Department” headed by an Inquisitor General, Alberto VO5 Gonzales, who thumbs his nose at the Rule of Law of the Land, the Bill of Rights and the Constitution of the United States of America?
It seems that the KANGAROO-COURT principle has migrated from America to Iraq–shouldn’t we also introduce Maliki to Saddam’s fate via Mr. Noose?
The yeller rose of texas is the same colour as the stripe that runs up the back of these skunk-varmints from austin and fertilized by the yeller crap that these Bush loyalists have shat on America with and will eventually have to dine on with their master CHIMPya for daring to trifle with America–DON’T MESS WITH AMERICA, austin texan shrimps!AMERICA will make bar-b-que and tempura outta ya creeps!!!!!
Divert all the money from Iraq by bringing the troops home immediately and use it towards preserving health care for Americans!!!
CHIMPya and Torticola Cheney’s legacy–SPREADING OF TERRORISM WORLDWIDE AND WIDENING ITS INFLUENCE!!!!!
Time for Americans to FORCE CHIMPya to comply with the rest of the world in CUTTING GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS!!!!!
The Korean Soap Operas I watch would make me cry more than the
fake display of angst by Libby’s SHYSTER Wells!!!!!
OK, I’ll bite. What is a feminist? Can a woman that makes the choice to stay at home, raise her children, and take care of her family a feminist?
Comment by hacker bob — February 21, 2007 @ 1:31 pm
Check your facebook!
Robert, I made the choice to stay home and raise my children for 10 years, until my divorce. After that, I worked full time and cared for my children. I have been a feminist since I heard the word at age 12. Does that answer your question?
The key word is “choice.” A woman who has children, but who chooses work should not be condemned for it. I don’t see anyone condemning men who have children and choose to work.
February 21st, 2007 at 7:16 pmCan a woman that makes the choice to stay at home, raise her children, and take care of her family a feminist?
Comment by hacker bob — February 21, 2007 @ 1:31 pm
i’ll go there… answer: of course.
and:
fem·i·nism –noun
1. the doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men.
2. (sometimes initial capital letter) an organized movement for the attainment of such rights for women.
3. feminine character.
[Origin: 1890–95;
…duh…
February 21st, 2007 at 7:18 pmThinkProgress, you may want to post this juicy bit:
A New York man accused of trying to help terrorists in Afghanistan has donated some $15,000 to the House Republicans’ campaign committee over three years.
February 21st, 2007 at 8:07 pmAbdul Tawala Ibn Ali Alishtari pleaded not guilty Friday in U.S. District Court in Manhattan to charges that include terrorism financing, material support of terrorism and money laundering.
GOP donor hit with terror charges
Comment by katy — February 21, 2007 @ 7:18 pm
Comment by Zooey — February 21, 2007 @ 7:16 pm
OK, thanks. I have heard that if a woman is a stay at home mom that dedicates her life to her family instead of persuing a career, and all the “pleasures” outside of the home, she could not really be a feminist. Mind you that those that hold these thoughts are usually bomb-throwers. I like that you used the key word “choice”. Jeri has made the choice to stay at home, and some would ridicule that.
February 22nd, 2007 at 12:36 amThinkProgress, you may want to post this juicy bit:
A New York man accused of trying to help terrorists in Afghanistan has donated some $15,000 to the House Republicans’ campaign committee over three years.
Abdul Tawala Ibn Ali Alishtari pleaded not guilty Friday in U.S. District Court in Manhattan to charges that include terrorism financing, material support of terrorism and money laundering.
GOP donor hit with terror charges
Comment by Gregor Samsa — February 21, 2007 @ 8:07 pm
No surprise at all. Islamic fundamentalists are, and vote if they do, conservative.
February 22nd, 2007 at 6:39 amSomebody who supports the ideas expoused in website needs to explain to the rest of us why there is any value in helping indiscriminate, blood thristy, cold blooded Islamic Fundamentalist killers acheive their stated goal of waiting us out in Iraq so they can get their hands on Iraq’s oil and reestablish the command and control structure they once had in Afghanistan.
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Hats off to you my good man.
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