Iraq Veteran Shot In The Head Describes ‘Systemic’ Neglect At Military Hospitals
Iraq Veteran Shot In The Head Describes ‘Systemic’ Neglect At Military Hospitals
Yesterday, for the first time, the Army criticized the Washington Post for its investigation into the gross neglect of wounded U.S. veterans at Walter Reed’s outpatient facilities. Lt. Gen. Kevin C. Kiley, chief of the Army Medical Command, called the Post’s reporting “one-sided” and questioned whether it was “an accurate representation.”
Moreover, he claimed the Army had already “fixed all of those problems” discussed in the article. (Reporter Dana Milbank noted, “Kiley might have had a stronger case if men wearing Tyvek hazmat suits and gas masks hadn’t walked through the lobby…or if he hadn’t acknowledged, moments later, that the entire building would have to be closed for a complete renovation.”)
But last night on the PBS Newshour, Lt. Brady Van Engelen — a former Walter Reed outpatient who has personal experience with the hospital’s failed bureaucracy — confirmed the Post’s reporting, and said the problems with America’s military health care system go well beyond Walter Reed. Watch it:
Engelen was shot in the head in Baghdad in April 2004, and had a large piece of his skull replaced with a titanium plate. Days after his surgery, he actually had to hail a cab to take him to the outpatient facility, because he didn’t feel well enough to walk there. “This stuff happens all across the country,” Van Engelen said. “I’ve spoken to soldiers that have told me just as much. It’s systemic. It’s not just moldy beds, walls, and hospital beds, you know, and the poor TV reception or anything else. It’s just the mentality, you know. The system just needs an overhaul.”
Later on the show, Rep. Bob Filner (D-CA), chairman of the Veterans Committee, said “the White House and [Kiley] are in denial about this whole thing.”
Transcript:
LT. BRADY VAN ENGELEN (Ret.), U.S. Army: I was this close to being killed. Today, I’m just happy to be here.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Army First Lieutenant Brady Van Engelen was in Baghdad when he was shot in the head in April 2004. The 27-year-old had a large piece of his skull replaced with a titanium plate. And although he had been shot just six days earlier, Van Engelen was asked to choose inpatient or outpatient care as soon as he arrived at Walter Reed. You chose to go right into outpatient and…
BRADY VAN ENGELEN: Yes, I mean, I wanted to be — if I would have gone inpatient, I wouldn’t have been able to see my family, you know?
JUDY WOODRUFF: Do you think a doctor would have made the same decision you did, to put you into outpatient and not inpatient?
BRADY VAN ENGELEN: No. I mean, you know, I got shot a week before. I think any doctor would probably at least observed. I mean, I don’t know if they’d do anything, but at least observe.
JUDY WOODRUFF: And as you look back on it, what shape do you think were you in at that point?
BRADY VAN ENGELEN: I was pretty beaten up, you know? I mean, like I said, I’d just been shot. I had a huge gauze on my head. You know, I still wasn’t completely with it. You know, I was fortunate enough to find a cabbie that just took me to the other side of Walter Reed.
JUDY WOODRUFF: A cab?
BRADY VAN ENGELEN: Yes, I mean, it’s not a very far walk. It’s like three buildings. It’s not that far. But still, you know, I don’t know. I could have been walking all night long, you never know.
[snip]
JUDY WOODRUFF: Both Groves and Van Engelen say that the controversy over the physical condition of facilities at Walter Reed is only one small part of a far greater problem throughout the military health care system.
BRADY VAN ENGELEN: They don’t get it. It extends beyond hospital — they don’t see that. They see the hospital bed as the route, you know, where the shoddy beds and the moldy walls as the root of the problem, but it extends beyond that. And they’re going to fix these walls, you know, and they’ll repaint the walls, and replace the beds, but it extends so far beyond that. It’s engrained within our culture, you know? It’s how we treat our soldiers; it’s the way it is.
JUDY WOODRUFF: There’s a lot of focus on the buildings and what’s wrong with the buildings. You’re saying that’s not the whole problem?
BRADY VAN ENGELEN: Walter Reed is on 16th Street. So is the White House. I mean, it’s in his backyard. I mean, do you think this stuff isn’t happening in Ravenna, Ohio, you know? I mean, what about the care there? You know, what about the care at other military installations, as well? This stuff happens all across the country. It’s not just Walter Reed.
JUDY WOODRUFF: How do you know that it’s happening in other places?
BRADY VAN ENGELEN: I’ve spoken to soldiers that have told me just as much. It’s systemic. It’s not just moldy beds, walls, and hospital beds, you know, and the poor TV reception or anything else. It’s just the mentality, you know. The system just needs an overhaul.
Topic Cloud
ArchivesBlog Roll
The WH is in denial about everything, except the money they make.
February 23rd, 2007 at 3:47 pmWhat they don’t talk about is that before we were ordered into Iraq WR was going to be closed and Bethesda Naval was to become Bethesda National. Now they don’t even have facilities for our honored wounded.
February 23rd, 2007 at 3:49 pmYeah, the NeoCons just love their troops.
If you are going to send our troops into a war of choice, make sure you take care of them after they are wounded and don’t take away their VA benefits.
Better yet, don’t send them to fight a war of choice, because somebody tried to kill your daddy.
February 23rd, 2007 at 3:49 pmThis guy should be shot fro treason!!!! That is of course what the right wingnut’s are saying on thier talk shows.
February 23rd, 2007 at 3:50 pmWOW,
Government health care not working. Who would have thought? And you want more government controlled health care. I cringe at this idea of the government screwing up the average Americans health care like they do there own.
February 23rd, 2007 at 3:52 pmWhat does he know, he was shot in the head.
/sarcasm
February 23rd, 2007 at 3:52 pmWhere’s Brit Hume to call this veteran mentally handicapped, mistaken, and over-emotional?
February 23rd, 2007 at 3:54 pmThey can’t screw up something that doesn’t exist dumb a$$.
February 23rd, 2007 at 3:57 pmVets are very cheap laborers.
Expendable, and should be automatically discarded after they are damaged.
When I got my ears zanged in Iraq, I knew better than to come back home,
and start kissing the toes of the overlords for help.
Vets are renewable assets. Lots of kids, punks and dope heads, roaming around the county who could happily join the military at the promise of big benefit. Such as getting an honorable benerial. Blah!
February 23rd, 2007 at 3:58 pm#3 Spudge Boy
The Neocons love the troops so much, that they would rather leave their care to market forces.
February 23rd, 2007 at 4:00 pmYo Roger,
Vets’ health care is limited to a small portion of vulnerable people with no power. If healthcare was nationalized, we (the people) would not let it become a turd.
February 23rd, 2007 at 4:01 pmthe white house isn’t in denial. they just don’t give a shit.
February 23rd, 2007 at 4:03 pmOh yeah one more thing. The actual government; Congress, the executive branch, Supreme Court, have the BEST health care in the country, if not the world. That is what the American public deserves or the affore mentioned shouldn’t get it.
February 23rd, 2007 at 4:04 pmAnd the swiftboat USS Van Engelan boards in 5, 4, 3, 2…
February 23rd, 2007 at 4:05 pmreposting this news, since this is a veteran thread
More BS hurting the wounded
Pentagon Red Tape Keeps Medical Records From Doctors of the Wounded
Department of Veterans Affairs doctors are furious over a recent decision by the Pentagon to block their access to medical information needed to treat severely injured troops arriving at VA hospitals from Iraq and Afghanistan.
February 23rd, 2007 at 4:05 pmWhen we get nationalized healthcare, we’d better be careful it is never the Republican’s sole responsibility to run it. They’ve shown in the past 6 years how utterly irresponsible they are.
February 23rd, 2007 at 4:08 pmI cringe at this idea of the government screwing up the average Americans health care like they do there own.
Comment by Roger_DebateDodger — February 23, 2007 @ 3:52 pm
Glad you show compassion for wounded vets.
February 23rd, 2007 at 4:10 pm#5 Roger_Roger
Government health care not working. Who would have thought? And you want more government controlled health care. I cringe at this idea of the government screwing up the average Americans health care like they do there own.
What an idiotic argument. This has nothing to do with managing health care insurance. This is about a specific hospital that is run by the DoD. Do you think single-payer health insurance is going to suddenly turn well-managed hospitals into dumps?
If you want to pick another example of government run hospitals to try to make your case, how about the VA medical centers? For the most part, they do a great job and they have the facilities and the expertise they need to do the job, though not in enough locations to meet the needs of all the returning wounded we have now. Your feeble attempt to badmouth “government controlled health care” failed. You can’t even begin to draw a correlation between that and the situation at Walter Reed.
But, if it’s that important to you to keep paying high prices for health insurance, maybe you could just go flush a couple of hundred dollar bills down the toilet every month and see if it makes you feel a little better.
February 23rd, 2007 at 4:10 pmWatch this video. He’s complaining that they gave him a choice between inpatient care and outpatient care, and he chose outpatient care. He’s a Lieutenant in the Army. They give him a choice, he gets what he wants, and now he’s complaining, because they let him out of the hospital.
I was a Lieutenant once. I was a big enough big enough boy to take responsibility for my decisions. Apparently, now, young officers need a babysitter. Maybe, we are in more trouble than I imagined.
February 23rd, 2007 at 4:12 pm#16 Peter
When we get nationalized healthcare, it will be under a Democratic government, so it will be run somewhat competently. If Republicans ever get power again, and try to mess with the healthcare system, after Americans have experienced the system, it will become like social security, and the Republicans will likely be chased out of office by the pitchfork armed great unwashed.
February 23rd, 2007 at 4:12 pmWhat else would you expect when you have a former campaign chairman running the Department of Veterans Affairs by the name of Jim Nicholson? He was only put into that position as a payback for helping get Bush/Cheney (s)elected to office. Nicholson had no prior experience with being in control of anything and now we have this problem with the Veterans coming back from war and being neglected. The Veterans are getting short-changed by this administration and none of them seem to care on bit. Jim Nicholson should voluntarily resign or be fired. Very unlikely that Bush will fire him because Cheney doesn’t want that to happen.
February 23rd, 2007 at 4:12 pmIraq contractor deaths go little noticed
In a largely invisible cost of the war in Iraq, nearly 800 civilians working under contract to the Pentagon have been killed and more than 3,300 hurt doing jobs normally handled by the U.S. military, according to figures gathered by The Associated Press.
Note : the last time I posted this was beginning of January and the total then was 760
February 23rd, 2007 at 4:13 pm#16 Peter
When we get nationalized healthcare, we’d better be careful it is never the Republican’s sole responsibility to run it. They’ve shown in the past 6 years how utterly irresponsible they are.
Good point. The Republicans have tried for years to convince people that government is incompetent and just screws up people’s lives. Once they took over the White House and Congress, they were able to prove it.
February 23rd, 2007 at 4:13 pmGovernment health care not working. Who would have thought?
Comment by Roger_Roger
Clarification, does not work under theBush (mis)Administration
I do not see you being outraged by the way Vets are treated.
February 23rd, 2007 at 4:15 pmThat shows you really do not support the troops, to me.
Its just a matter of time before BushCo throws some one under the bus. Perhaps it will be Gen. Richard Cody. I don’t suppose Michael Brown of Katrina fame is working there now.
February 23rd, 2007 at 4:19 pmI don’t feel sorry for 1) truck drivers taking jobs Iraqis are capable of doing or 2) even worse, mercenaries that get paid good friggin’ money to kill people.
The reason they are not noticed is because the “liberal” media doesn’t want the average American to know that we have mercenaries fighting in this war. They want Americans to think they all fall into my first category, which falls back on, why are we paying Americans to go to Iraq to perform jobs Iraqis can do.
February 23rd, 2007 at 4:23 pmHe’s complaining that they gave him a choice between inpatient care and outpatient care, and he chose outpatient care. — paul the neocon
He had surgery for a head wound the day before, read the f*cking article.
February 23rd, 2007 at 4:25 pmWay to support the troops, a$$hat
Comment by ForTruth — February 23, 2007 @ 4:01 pm
“We the people” haven’t been able to stop the ruling elite from destroying this country so far.
I’m not so sure “We the people” could prevent an Administration hell-bent on destroying social programs from doing just that.
February 23rd, 2007 at 4:32 pm‘Dumping’ of Homeless by Hospitals Stirs Debate
LOS ANGELES, Feb. 22 — For a year, reports have surfaced that hospitals here have left homeless patients on downtown streets, including a paraplegic man wearing a hospital gown and colostomy bag who witnesses say pulled himself through the streets with a plastic bag of his belongings held in his teeth.
Now, prosecutors are hoping a bill introduced last week in the State Senate will give them stronger legal firepower to charge the hospitals.
Prisoners in Europe reveive a house when they come out of prison, Things are getting bad in the states eh ??
MY God if you live in Austria and you suffer depression and asked why “like I dont have a car” The Austrian Goverment buy you a car just to stop you whinging, Although In Autria if on any day the CO2 levels are high you have to Use a Bus or train within City limits ????
February 23rd, 2007 at 4:32 pmLt. Gen. Kevin C. Kiley, chief of the Army Medical Command, called the Post’s reporting “one-sidedâ€
This is the painted-school-houses-in-Iraq defense. One-sidedness doesn’t apply: If there are failures, lots of success stories don’t make up for them.
February 23rd, 2007 at 4:33 pmPaul, which side of your skull got half blown off?
February 23rd, 2007 at 4:34 pmOh, excuse me, Lootenant Paul.
I’m fairly certain that we would all agree that our current health care system leaves room for improvement. It is not as good as it could be. However, it is the best in the world. I’ve personally never heard a story of a Rochester resident traveling to India or Canada, or even the United Kingdom for treatment, yet their citizens flock to the U.S. for healthcare daily.
Dr. Kevin Fleming of the Mayo Clinic did an analysis of the Canadian government-run health care plan and found that on average there is a 17-week wait for referrals to specialists, nearly 60 percent of the diagnostic equipment, i.e. C.A.T. Scans, MRI equipment, etc. is outdated and many of the high tech diagnostic equipment taken for granted in U.S. hospitals is not even available. He also found cases of 18-month waits for bypass surgery.
The statistics I was able to find indicate that there are approximately 300 million people living in the U.S. Of those 300 million, approximately 250 million to 260 million are covered by an insurance plan. Let’s split the difference and figure 255 million people are covered.
That leaves about 45 million people without insurance. Of this 45 million, the government estimates that almost 15 million qualify for some type of insurance program, but choose not to take part.
That now leaves us with about 30 million people in the U.S. who want insurance, but do not have it. Translate that into percentages and you are looking at a system that has around a 90 percent “success” rate and a 10 percent “failure” rate. Heck, let’s figure all the numbers are off slightly and say that we have only an 85 percent coverage rate.
That is still a problem, but what type of a problem? Is it a problem worth scrapping our entire health care system for?
I would venture to guess that if our public school had test scores indicating that 85 percent to 90 percent of our students were passing their standardized tests, that we would be celebrating the achievement. Yet, why is it that an 85 percent to 90 percent success rate in health care is a “crisis?” A problem yes; a crisis, I’m not so sure.
I’m sure it’s a crisis for those individuals and families who are struggling to get coverage, but that does not necessarily make it a national crisis worth vastly increasing taxes and the size of government.
In the 2006 Congressional Budget, there were 9,963 line item discretionary projects totaling over $29 billion. This list of nearly 10,000 items is referred to as “pork,” plain and simple waste of taxpayer money.
Perhaps we would be better off eliminating this waste and pumping $29 billion into covering the 10 percent to 15 percent of our population without health insurance, rather than creating more government.
The biggest problem with any program run by the government is that on average only about 25 cents to 35 cents of every dollar gets used for its intended purpose. That means that for every dollar we pay for government-run “absolute universal health care,” only about a quarter will go to cover what ails us. The rest is eaten up in the vast bureaucracy “needed” to operate the program.
In 2005, the average U.S. household of four paid just over $19,000 of their household income to the federal government. Perhaps we would be better served by giving back $5,000 to each family so they could purchase their own healthcare plan?
A wise man once said, “giving money to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to 16-year-old boys.” I think that sums it up pretty well.
Let’s put more money back into the hands of those who earned it, less into the hands of wasteful government bureaucracy and let the people choose their own health care options.
February 23rd, 2007 at 4:34 pmI wonder how hacker bob feels about the treatment of his wounded comrades-in-arms. Is this kind of treatment something they agreed to when they volunteeres?
February 23rd, 2007 at 4:34 pmComment by Briseadh na Faire
What am supposed to say to that?
February 23rd, 2007 at 4:37 pmGood point.
Dumping’ of Homeless by Hospitals Stirs Debate
Of the 55 or so reports of “patient dumping,†principally in the dilapidated quarter known as Skid Row, only a handful are being investigated for criminal activity, said Rocky Delgadillo, the city attorney. Only one hospital has been charged, using a misdemeanor count that has never been tested in court.
The problem is that while California state law requires hospitals to have written procedures outlining follow-up care for patients, it does not expressly prohibit leaving them on the street.
It seems things like geneva conventions and california state laws should be written again so they cannot be misinterperated
February 23rd, 2007 at 4:38 pmtypo – volunteeres = volunteered.
February 23rd, 2007 at 4:39 pmI wonder how hacker bob feels about the treatment of his wounded comrades-in-arms. —- Briseadh na Faire
Anyone who still claims to be a republican after all this has come out does not support the troops. It makes no sense if they really support the troops as they claim.
Either that or they are brain damaged like troll paul.
February 23rd, 2007 at 4:42 pmEven a lost Dog in Europe has far more right How The F()ck can a society accept that a paraplegic man wearing a hospital gown and colostomy bag with a plastic bag of his belongings held in his teeth……… Be thrown out on the street ………….. This would make a fatastic advert on TV for military recruiting ,,, can you imagine …..shit man
February 23rd, 2007 at 4:43 pmI was a Lieutenant once. I was a big enough big enough boy to take responsibility for my decisions. Apparently, now, young officers need a babysitter. Maybe, we are in more trouble than I imagined.
Comment by paul
Paul, were you a Lt who was shot in the head? Were you a Lt shot in the head who had surgery to replace part of his skull, and then was expected to make a decision on inpatient or outpatient care? Hmmm….
Didn’t think so. Shut up.
February 23rd, 2007 at 4:44 pmEven a lost Dog in Europe has far more HUMAN rights – somehow ????
February 23rd, 2007 at 4:46 pm#29 – Tobey Tall,
February 23rd, 2007 at 4:47 pmThose British spellings and phrasings are so quaint. That and your capitalization patterns indicate that you are a prime product of your educational system.
Socialized medicine sucks.
February 23rd, 2007 at 4:51 pmWrite your congress people, people! This is not right.
George Bush is eating off of fancy White House china and getting pampered and waited on while these poor kids are being treated like garbage.
It’s just not right!
February 23rd, 2007 at 4:53 pmSocialized medicine sucks.
Comment by Patrick1
Do you ever actually read a story before making your totally idiotic comments, dimwit?
February 23rd, 2007 at 4:55 pmSocialized medicine sucks.
February 23rd, 2007 at 4:57 pmComment by Patrick1Cell — February 23, 2007 @ 4:51 pm
Care to use your obviously superior intellect to debate this particular thread regarding the continued deplorable conditions our wounding vets are exposed to?
Didn’t think so…
Paul,
My spikeheels have an appointment with your head.
February 23rd, 2007 at 4:57 pmPaul, were you a Lt who was shot in the head?
February 23rd, 2007 at 4:58 pmComment by Zooey — February 23, 2007 @ 4:44 pm
I’m going to answer……ummmmm, yes?
Or he was dropped on his head as an infant?
It’s obvious from the top down this administration doesn’t support the troops whatsoever, and much like every other accusation that comes out of their mouth (or is it their @$$?) about those that disagree with their policies, it’s pure projection!
February 23rd, 2007 at 4:59 pmCome on nobody has commented on this post 29 , 34 and 37 are you all just pretending NOT to see it
‘Dumping’ of Homeless by Hospitals Stirs Debate
LOS ANGELES, Feb. 22 — For a year, reports have surfaced that hospitals here have left homeless patients on downtown streets, including a paraplegic man wearing a hospital gown and colostomy bag who witnesses say pulled himself through the streets with a plastic bag of his belongings held in his teeth.
February 23rd, 2007 at 5:00 pmI find it very interesting that liberals who cheer the deaths of U.S Servicemen for their own political benefit even to point of broadcasting Islamo Fascist assassination films now are upset about the servicemen sufferering from the very healthcare they want to provide to all Americans.
February 23rd, 2007 at 5:02 pmI was a Lieutenant once. I was a big enough big enough boy to take responsibility for my decisions. Apparently, now, young officers need a babysitter. Maybe, we are in more trouble than I imagined.
February 23rd, 2007 at 5:05 pmComment by paul — February 23, 2007 @ 4:12 pm
Sorry, I gotta call Bull$hit on this one!
You were not a Lieutenant once!
You never served!
You don’t even know what basic training is!
No Lieutenant would ever make such an asinine post regarding our brave men and women.
You’re a flippin’ idiot!
You can now stop playing with your parent’s computer, that obviously has a blocker program for porn.
Idiot!
This whole administration, every one of them, is like a systemic bacterial infection feeding off of it’s host.
The American people and their country.
———————————————
http://taliaferro.net/closure/page7.html
Some VA hospitals in shocking shape
VA Hospital closures are on the mind of just about all veterans and soldiers … While the majority of care is good, in a big system, bad things happen.†…
———————————————————-
http://abcnews.go.com/ Primetime/ story?id=132383&page=1
ABC News: Some Veterans’ Hospitals in Shocking Shape
Some Veterans’ Hospitals in Shocking Shape. … Man With Twin Living Inside Him– A Medical Mystery Classic · Why Praise Can Be Bad for Kids …
———————————————————–
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/041104J.shtml
Report Rips V.A. Hospital Care
We take care of 7 million veterans. While the majority of care is good, … At one point, Bell’s infection got so bad that the hospital used maggots to try …
February 23rd, 2007 at 5:08 pm————————————————————
The use these kids like human meat to take bullets and shrapnel and fight the plutocrats’ oil war, then they dispose of them like garbage.
Get mad!
February 23rd, 2007 at 5:08 pm#49,
I find it interesting that Patrick1Cell, who doesn’t give a rat’s ass regarding US Service men and women (and who doesn’t understand the difference between run-on sentences and complete sentences), can’t compare and contrast V.A. medical care and National Health Care.
Nahhh, actually, it neither surprises me, nor interests me.
February 23rd, 2007 at 5:10 pmPatrick1inch is an idiot!
Just like Lt.I don’t give a f*ck about the troops paul
I find it very interesting that liberals who cheer the deaths of U.S Servicemen —- Patrick1
If you had accused me of cheering soldiers deaths to my face instead of hiding behind your keyboard, You would no longer be standing.
Your attitude and statements, no outrage at the treatment of the troops and wounded shows you are nothing but scum.
Next time you see a veteran protesting this adminstration, please walk up and say that to them, please do. Lets see if you have the guts to without hiding behind your keyboard.
February 23rd, 2007 at 5:14 pmV.A. is just like Hillary Care. Same piss poor conditions. The goal of socialized medicine is to give everyone bad health care. Seems the V.A has been the pilot program for that for a long time.
February 23rd, 2007 at 5:18 pmI just think it is the usual liberal double standards, complain about the very healthcare they want to give all americans so they can get political points. Very sad.
February 23rd, 2007 at 5:19 pmLiberals cheer the deaths of U.S. Servicemen every night on their evening news broadcasts. CNN went so far as to show their murders in videos provided by the fascists. All to gain a political advantage. Now they whine about our servicemen suffering under the very healthcare they tried to impose on the American people in 1994.
February 23rd, 2007 at 5:21 pmI just think — Patrick1
It is obvious that is a lie.
February 23rd, 2007 at 5:22 pmOkay TObey Tall, I will comment, because in the past I have already discussed this. You are only posting the stuff that has come up lately. This has been going on for years. There has been an investigation going on for about a year now. It is brazen of these scum bags to do it in the middle of an investigation. These people are dropping off paraplegic and quadriplegics, not to mention all of the others in the middle of skid row, where they are mugged, raped and beaten.
Sick stuff from the people who are supposed to care for our well being.
February 23rd, 2007 at 5:23 pmPatrick1 is nothing more than an ignorant pile of republopuss. Never stood inside the uniform to defend this country and can’t come to the realization that GW and crew have screwed the american fighting soldier. This country owes more than healthcare to all servicemen but this maggot (patrick1) would rather throw another dipshit neocon response out.
Wayne, I salute your response and would also cut this puke down to size if he ever said that to my face.
But I want patrick to keep spitting this bile. I want the rest of the country to see the blatant ignorance that his ilk spews. Keep it up patrick1. America is watching.
Thank you Lt. for your service and your courage.
February 23rd, 2007 at 5:25 pmAre the LA hospitals government run?
February 23rd, 2007 at 5:26 pm#49 Patrick1
I find it very interesting that liberals who cheer the deaths of U.S Servicemen…
You made that idiotic claim before and I asked for an example. Did you ever come up with one? I want to see an example of “liberals who cheer the deaths of U.S. Servicemen”. And don’t come back and post here again until you provide one.
February 23rd, 2007 at 5:27 pmIs Patrice NeoCon run?
February 23rd, 2007 at 5:29 pmCNN showing assassination tapes provided by the Islamists.
February 23rd, 2007 at 5:31 pm#57 Patrick1
Liberals cheer the deaths of U.S. Servicemen every night on their evening news broadcasts. CNN went so far as to show their murders in videos provided by the fascists. All to gain a political advantage. Now they whine about our servicemen suffering under the very healthcare they tried to impose on the American people in 1994.
You’ve cut and pasted this crap before. And you never answered the criticism that was thrown back at you. You’re nothing but slogans, Patrick. You have no brain. You have nothing to say that isn’t fed to you in right-wing talking points. I’ll remember to skim past your pap from now on.
February 23rd, 2007 at 5:33 pmhttp://newsmine.org/
News and Document archive source for uncovering and exposing
February 23rd, 2007 at 5:34 pmwith over 10,000 articles and documents
Only the volunteer military are sacrificing for aWol’s war of choice. Money is short due to tax cuts and the billions going to Iraq. There is no extra money to take care of the troops coming home, and all agencies are reducing expenses. The VP has been sent on a junket to warmer climes, so he’s comfy.
February 23rd, 2007 at 5:39 pmAre the LA hospitals government run?
Comment by Patrick1
You ARE an idiot.
The hospitals dumping patients in LA are PRIVATE, non government hospitals.
CNN showing assassination tapes provided by the Islamists. —- Patrick1
CNN is a corporate owned news channel, owned by conservative Time Warner. Hardly representative of liberals, IDIOT.
February 23rd, 2007 at 5:43 pmV.A. is just like Hillary Care. Same piss poor conditions
February 23rd, 2007 at 5:44 pmComment by Patrick1inch — February 23, 2007 @ 5:18 pm
Please provide proof where the National Health Care has piss poor conditions.
oh yeah, you can’t, because….it doesn’t exist
Idiot
complain about the very healthcare they want to give all americans so they can get political points
Thank you, 1inch, for showing that we (us, not you peabrain) do care about all Americans.
Liberals cheer the deaths of U.S. Servicemen every night on their evening news broadcasts.
Laugh it up, fuzzball. Everytime you state this, you’re political affiliation shrivels (and I suppose you can relate)
CNN showing assassination tapes provided by the Islamists.
Can you ever, once, provide a link of your stupid ass allegations?
Didn’t think so…
But, as hellinabucket stated, keep posting. I can safely project that it’s you and your ilk that keep the downward trend of Bush’s popularity declining at a furious rate. (novemember elections ring a bell?)
Give me the names of the LA hospitals. And if don’t believe CNN is liberal then you are not in reality and a waste of time to talk with.
February 23rd, 2007 at 5:45 pmA private hospital wouldn’t dump patients because they would get sued out of existence. A government hospital can tell people to shove it because they are on the taxpayers tit, like the VA.
February 23rd, 2007 at 5:47 pmGive me the names of the LA hospitals. And if don’t believe CNN is liberal then you are not in reality and a waste of time to talk with.
Comment by Patrick1
Read about the hospitals yourself and while you are at it, google to find out who owns CNN, look up the hosts for shows, like Glen Beck.
It is you whose mind is not grounded in reality, IDIOT.
February 23rd, 2007 at 5:51 pmIn the leftist mainstream media’s ongoing campaign to break the will of the American people regarding the Iraq war, CNN has fought for and has now established itself as the “leader of the pack.†Airing the Islamo-fascist “snuff film†of US troops, the voice of CNN reporter Michael Ware (who was traveling with the Islamic fanatics) is heard conversing with one of the terrorists, who advises the CNN reporter that his group is going to take out one of the US soldiers in the distance.
Subsequently, the terrorist and CNN reporter discuss the killings. CNN has aired the film multiple times on its network. I have no doubt they will step up the airing of this segment as the November elections move closer. Rep. Duncan Hunter (R-CA), chairman of the House of Representatives’ Armed Services Committee, wrote in a letter to Sec. of Defense Rumsfeld: “CNN has now served as the publicist for an enemy propaganda film featuring the killing of an American soldier.†During a press conference, Rep. Brian Bilbray (R-CA) added, “This is nothing short of a terrorist snuff film.â€
Still, the leftist media persists in stretching “freedom of the press†to the breaking point. Well, this time it broke. If treason is still defined as “giving aid and comfort to the enemy,†CNN has committed treason. But, CNN doesn’t care, as long as it and its leftist media brethren can assist in encouraging the downfall of the US—by now aligning with terrorists to effect US destruction. Besides, CNN knows no one will do anything about its treason. So it has little fear of reprisal (for anything it does) and has become bolder and bolder in its now overt traitorous behaviors.
(Excerpt) Read more at chronwatch.com …
February 23rd, 2007 at 5:52 pmRead more at chronwatch.com …
Comment by Patrick1
More proof you are an idiot……
February 23rd, 2007 at 5:53 pmPatrick1 is beating that old dead horse “the leftist media.”
He doesn’t even have the excuse of being shot in the head.
February 23rd, 2007 at 5:59 pmpaul; I have no doubt that you were the officer in charge of the latrines(head in the USN).
February 23rd, 2007 at 6:11 pmGive him a choice, then let him have what he wants. Can you believe the gall of these heartless bastards?
February 23rd, 2007 at 6:12 pmSo when do we hve congressional hearings and impeachment proceedings?
February 23rd, 2007 at 6:27 pmWe really don’t need congressional hearings and impeachment to know that socialized medicine is a stunning failure.
February 23rd, 2007 at 6:34 pmEveryone inside the White House labels everyone outside as a liar, or a traitor.
February 23rd, 2007 at 6:37 pmThey care for themselves only.
Those inside the White House are the ones who sent these young people to war without the proper equipment, training and support. Medical care has brought back many of those wounded, who would otherwise have died in the field, leaving them to the department of defense to continue the medical outpatient care. And we all know who is in charge of the DoD: Those at the pentagon are keeping real costs of the war hidden, and the costs of rehabilitation and long-term care for these veterans will adversely affect their “budget.”
Better to lose $12 billion in Iraq accounting, pay another few billion to the defense contractors for shoddy or non-existent work. They would rather reward their friends in the industry.
The White House and the GOP don’t give a damn about our troops their only interest is controling the oil in Iraq. Bush/Cheney don’t think of our troops and human nor do their supporters. The young man was left and all the help and support went to Iraq. Now the White House is blameing low level employees as this has been known by Bush/Cheney/Rummy for over 3 years. For those who believe Bush their just as guilty as he is. Nothing will happen because no body in the United States cares it’s just lip service.
February 23rd, 2007 at 6:41 pmCheck out the Ghosts of Abu Ghraib on HBO this month. I saw it this week. Some of the low ranking guards have been held accountable and did their time in jail, but the stench goes all the way to the White House. Those who served time, all said their orders were imperative and came from their superiors.
February 23rd, 2007 at 6:54 pmBush&Co doesn’t care about the ones they send to war, not when they send them not when they are wounded and not when they are commanded to carry out illegal orders.
Van Engelen was asked to choose inpatient or outpatient care as soon as he arrived at Walter Reed. You chose to go right into outpatient and…
BRADY VAN ENGELEN: Yes, I mean, I wanted to be — if I would have gone inpatient, I wouldn’t have been able to see my family, you know?
He chose to go home with his family. Now, he’s complaining they let him go.
You will listen to anybody if their story fits your agenda.
If they wouldn’t have given Van Engelen a choice, you would be charging that the Bush administration with keeping soldiers in the hospital against their will.
I would image their is not one reasonable prog here that is even willing to admit that Van Engelen made a mistake by opting for outpatient care. Any problem you can dream up (and many that don’t even exist) are all squarely blamed on the Bush Administration.
You should have stuck with the dirty rooms and mold. Typically liberal, another overreach.
February 23rd, 2007 at 6:59 pmPatrick, I’m sure this is no revelation to most of us here, but you just have no idea what you’re talking about. The main reason our form of socialized medicine, the VA, isn’t working is republicans have been cutting its funding for years. A much better model for our society would be Medicare, which is a single-payer plan, not “socialized medicine.” Medicare currently has a 3% operating overhead compared to the 30% our insurance-based system has.
Paul, it’s amazing to me how quickly conservatives stop supporting troops when those troops start criticizing your dear leader. The depth of your commitment to the troops would barely get one’s feet wet.
February 23rd, 2007 at 7:02 pmhttp://newsmine.org/
News and Document archive source for uncovering and exposing
February 23rd, 2007 at 7:17 pmwith over 10,000 articles and documents
He chose to go home with his family. Now, he’s complaining they let him go. You will listen to anybody if their story fits your agenda. Comment by paul — February 23, 2007 @ 6:59 pm
You will ignore any story that doesn’t fit your agenda, and fabricate stories that do. Hypocrite.
Why do you Conservative Republicans hate the military and America so much? Why are you Terrorist funded?
February 23rd, 2007 at 7:25 pmRead #84bluedog
The main reason our form of socialized medicine, the VA, isn’t working is republicans have been cutting its funding for years. A much better model for our society would be Medicare, which is a single-payer plan, not “socialized medicine.†Medicare currently has a 3% operating overhead compared to the 30% our insurance-based system has.
… how quickly conservatives stop supporting troops when those troops start criticizing your dear leader.
bluedog is absolutely right.
February 23rd, 2007 at 7:43 pmPoor Lt. Van Engelen–It’s a bloody miracle indeed that he survived the filthy, septic, uncaring conditions of Walter Reed! This is CRIMINAL NEGLECT of our brave servicemen and servicewomen and MUST BE PUNISHED TO THE FULLEST EXTENT OF THE LAW–the BUCK STOPS AT CHIMPya and Cheney, AND THESE TWO CREEPS MUST PAY THE PRICE FOR THEIR INFAMY AND CRIMES AGAINST THE WOUNDED AMERICAN SOLDIERS!!!!! A KANGAROO-COURT MILITARY TRIBUNAL IS FITTING JUSTICE FOR CHIMPya and Cheney!!!!!
February 23rd, 2007 at 8:09 pmA KANGAROO-COURT MILITARY TRIBUNAL IS FITTING JUSTICE FOR CHIMPya and Cheney!!!!!
Comment by Raymond Funamoto — February 23, 2007 @ 8:09 pm
BRING IT ON!
February 23rd, 2007 at 8:35 pm#76 – Uncle Ho
Damn, I missed you.
I have some info on what you asked about last night. Find me!
February 23rd, 2007 at 8:51 pmLt. Engelen’s story is really incredible. There is one thing that mystifies me about his so-called care. If he was but 6 days removed from being wounded in action then what numbnut doctor offered him the choice of care?
February 23rd, 2007 at 9:01 pmWouldn’t it have been obvious to the doctor at that point that the Lt. could not make a rational decision? It just boogles the mind that this would not be obvious.
To all neocons and reich winger troll’s like, paul. patrick1, vince and michael check out my post directed to you all on the 800 thread…It work’s for every time you post…From the resident witch…
February 23rd, 2007 at 9:02 pmSharon, Excellent post over on the other thread. I know its only for the trolls but I read it anyway. Couldn’t have said it better myself!
February 23rd, 2007 at 9:08 pmThank you Jim and good Blessings to you.
February 23rd, 2007 at 9:18 pmBluedog49. I support the troops (I served for 10 years with great people), but my support is not blind. You’re universal support must extend to the likes of Lynndie England. If she carried democrat water, would you believe everything she said?
I would submit that your universal support also seems to fall silent to those majority of troops that want unity at home and victory in Iraq.
February 23rd, 2007 at 10:11 pmGreat, paul, you were a waiter. Were you a carhop or did you work in Olive Garden?
February 23rd, 2007 at 10:42 pmIs this the best the trolls have? It is going to be a long, glorious reign for liberals.
February 24th, 2007 at 12:28 amEngelen is a good looking guy. I hope his having been shot in the head did not cause any brain impairments.
February 24th, 2007 at 1:08 amI was a Lieutenant once.
Comment by paul
But you are one hell of an a**hole now.
February 24th, 2007 at 1:56 amZooey; turned in early last night, off to work in Detroit early this morn, catch you later.
February 24th, 2007 at 5:17 amCool, Uncle Ho. Later.
February 24th, 2007 at 11:21 amI’m a disabled veteran of the Iraq war. In my experience I’ve had good care at Army Medical facilities. I was treated at Madigan Army Medical center in Washington State. I’m sure that just like civilian medical facilities you have your incompetent doctors and horror stories that you hear on the news. I’ve had no problems though. I hope they can fix Walter Reed though. Sounds like they have some problems there.
February 24th, 2007 at 11:49 amDon,
Thanks for your sevice and reasonable post. They are probably having some problems as Walter Reed (as they could with any hospital). Progressives here would love for you and I to believe those problems are significantly worse than they really are.
I’m curious, I’ve been in the military, but not in Iraq. What’s your take? Can it be secured? Do you want to see us pull out or does it make sense to do what it takes to secure the region?
Regardless of your take, I respect your opinion.
February 24th, 2007 at 3:00 pmI would like to comment on the post left by Paul on the Lt. being given a choice of out patient or inpatient care. Have you ever been shot in the head? Do you have any personal experience with this subject? ONLY six days out from a head injury and surgery and you critized him for his decision. Get some COMMON SENSE! He wanted to have more interaction with his family….but medically he should not have even been asked that question. A doctor should have made that decision in conjunction with him and his family…just like they do in civilian hospitals. AND he should have been escorted or transported there. When he got there it should have been CLEAN, COMFORTABLE AND WELL STAFFED. THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR ANYTHING DIFFERENT! A brain injury is very serious and nothing to make light of! My son who is in the Navy was running a 104 temp, vomiting w/diarreaha had to walk a mile BOTH ways for 4 days straight will stationed in Chicago. He was told there was no transportation due to budget cut backs….and that was in October 2004! The Military needs to do MUCH better and it IS the way it is because people don’t fight to change it. So GOD BLESS you Lt. Van Engelen for having the courage to speak out and thank you for your service to this country!!
February 24th, 2007 at 4:30 pmSherry,
Paul is incapable of common sense, but he’ll probably invite you for a glass of wine and a ride on his horrible Love Train. :P
February 24th, 2007 at 5:11 pmWooooWooooooo! Chug-a-Chug-a…*hic*…WooooWoooooo….
February 24th, 2007 at 7:44 pmUncle Ho,
zooey at moscow dot com
February 25th, 2007 at 12:27 pmFebruary 25th, 2007 at 3:18 pm
Garden Route
Your blog makes very interesting reading. I’m sure others will think so too I look forward to reading their comments.
March 14th, 2008 at 11:42 amBankruptcy Laws Canada
I have to say, that I could not agree with you in 100%, but it’s just my opinion, which could be wrong.
March 14th, 2008 at 5:53 pmSteven
I just wanted to write to say that you have a great site and a wonderful resource for all to share.
March 15th, 2008 at 2:50 amamerica’s next top model
I Googled for something completely different, but found your page…and have to say thanks. nice read.
March 16th, 2008 at 8:07 amInsurance Automobile Insurance Home Owners Insurance
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
March 16th, 2008 at 3:29 pmKds Bbs Pics Underage Porn Kid Sex
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
March 16th, 2008 at 8:22 pmReward Points
Collateral Mortgages
March 16th, 2008 at 9:09 pmGay Sex Gay Twinks Gay Hunks
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
March 17th, 2008 at 2:54 amJessie
Great post. I have added you to my digg bookmark
March 17th, 2008 at 7:58 amLegal Services Plan
Can it be that your server is infected with a virus – I get an Virus warning when I open your site with Firefox – Just for your Info.
March 17th, 2008 at 4:58 pmGay Incest Gay Cumshots Gay Jock
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
March 17th, 2008 at 7:52 pmGay Incest Gay Male Sex Gay Brothers
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
March 18th, 2008 at 4:26 pmDistance Learning Teachers Having Sex With Students Very Hot School Girls
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
March 18th, 2008 at 6:54 pmGay Sex Gay Ass Gay Ass
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
March 19th, 2008 at 1:23 amYoung Girls Youngest Boys Gallery Young Girls Naked
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
March 19th, 2008 at 6:24 amInsurance Small Business Health Insurance Nationwide Insurance
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
March 19th, 2008 at 10:50 amEric
The TrackBack specification was created by Six Apart, who first implemented it in their Movable Type blogging software in August
March 19th, 2008 at 2:12 pmYoung Girls Young Girl Models Young Puffy Nipple
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
March 20th, 2008 at 12:23 amHealth Insurance Gulf Breeze Insurance Flood Insurance
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
March 20th, 2008 at 9:07 amEric
I found you while searching google today. You’ll be happy toknowyour site was at the top of the results. Anyway. I added you to my Digg bookmarks. Good stuff!
March 20th, 2008 at 4:05 pmHealth Insurance California Health Insurance Michigan Health Insurance
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
March 20th, 2008 at 6:06 pmJaime King
March 21st, 2008 at 9:57 amwwe divas nude picture
I Googled for something completely different, but found your page…and have to say thanks. nice read.
March 21st, 2008 at 10:29 amYoung Girls Young Teens Angus Young
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
March 21st, 2008 at 12:56 pmGay Incest Old Gay Men Gay Male Galleries
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
March 21st, 2008 at 2:25 pmAss Round Ass Tight Ass
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
March 21st, 2008 at 8:23 pmPee Female Pee Pee Hole
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
March 21st, 2008 at 10:48 pmPee Public Pee Public Pissing
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
March 22nd, 2008 at 4:53 pmJim Crow Laws Employment Law Us Supreme Court
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
March 22nd, 2008 at 10:03 pmGay Sex Gay Teen Gay Men Having Sex
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
March 25th, 2008 at 6:03 amAss Tight Ass Ass Worship
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
March 25th, 2008 at 2:55 pmThe Year Of The Dog
(Blogger now has backlinks – very similar to the trackback feature in Movable Type. The term is used colloquially for any kind of Linkback.)
March 25th, 2008 at 10:11 pmBig Tits Soft Tits Hot Tits
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
March 26th, 2008 at 2:18 amWeight Loss Low Carbohydrate Diet The Zone Diet
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
March 26th, 2008 at 6:30 amLachelle Warr
It is right on that obtaining true information on this matter can be troublesome.
March 26th, 2008 at 12:13 pmRunning Training Equipment
I have to say, that I could not agree with you in 100%, but it’s just my opinion, which could be wrong.
March 27th, 2008 at 5:31 pmpatients treatment
As the hormonal balance is regained, facial hair and acne, two commonly associated symptoms, will disappear. "PCOS may affect between
March 27th, 2008 at 6:06 pmclassic car insurance canada
I found your post comments while searching Google. Very relevant especially as this is not an issue which a lot of peaople are conversant with.
March 28th, 2008 at 1:08 pmAss Thick Ass Babes Kick Ass
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
March 29th, 2008 at 7:51 pmWeb Service Standards
Extremely interesting post. A little bit different from my point of view but neverless an interesting opinion.
March 30th, 2008 at 1:29 amAccounting Financial Financial Success
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
March 30th, 2008 at 2:02 pmextra income jobs
I found your site via Google while searching for %KEYWORD% and your post regarding %TITLE% looks very interesting to me.
March 30th, 2008 at 5:17 pmBoobs Giant Tits Gigantic Boobs
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
March 30th, 2008 at 6:25 pmGay Sex Gay Sex Videos Black Gay Men
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
March 31st, 2008 at 12:22 amAlex Chitu
Thus the group dynamics are substantially different from that of a jury. While internet booking engines have become the first destination
March 31st, 2008 at 9:08 pmPayday Advance Loan
Payday loan quick can be electrifying in the event of a crisis. A conclusion to cash flow subsidy surely is to go forth with a payday advance loans in 3 minutes.
April 2nd, 2008 at 12:37 amAll about Digimon Adventure Online Game. Digimon Adventure Fans Blog….
…Digimon is a small virtual pet. You can download and play an online RPG in the Digimon universe. It looks and feels like 2D graphic RPG adventure. You can train and level up your Digimon, make hundreds of quests, and travel through a huge universe a…
March 5th, 2009 at 4:52 amShag Hairstyles and Haircuts…
shag hairstyle basically gotits name from the word “shaggy” since …once the hair is cutand layered it gives off a shaggy look. The shag hairstyle has always been apopular hairstyle, and there are plenty ofshag hairstyles to choose from…
April 5th, 2009 at 8:22 pmArbonne skin care line overview…
Arbonne is one of the prestigious companies in the world when it comes to beauty and skin care. Its skin care product line is one of the best in the world that many women. The products of Arbonne International skin care products are formulated in Swit…
April 30th, 2009 at 1:53 pm