Pace: ‘Significant’ risk over potential third crisis.
Pace: ‘Significant’ risk over potential third crisis.
CNN: Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Gen. Peter Pace has sent a classified report to Defense Secretary Robert Gates and to Congress that says the risk is now “significant” that the U.S. military would not be able to meet its obligations if a third world crisis were to break out. Pace’s declaration has triggered a requirement under the law “for Secretary Gates to come up with what they call a ‘mitigation plan’ – once the risk is ’significant’ the Secretary must report to Congress on what he’s doing about it.” Video HERE.
UPDATE: The AP has details:
The assessment…represents a worsening from a year ago, when that risk was rated as moderate.
The report is classified, but on Monday senior defense officials, speaking on condition on anonymity, confirmed the decline in overall military readiness. And a report that accompanied Pace’s review concluded that while the Pentagon is working to improve its warfighting abilities, it “may take several years to reduce risk to acceptable levels.”
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Why post this on a moonbat site when the libs don’t want to fight anyone anywhere?
February 26th, 2007 at 5:29 pmMitigation plan = draft
February 26th, 2007 at 5:29 pmQuick, TP trolls, get down there and enlist before the draft takes you!
Pattie ~ your boss called, he doesn’t want you to be the first poster on each thread. It’s too obvious that you’re a paid shill.
February 26th, 2007 at 5:33 pmSlow down, take a break, go change your piss soaked pants.
Patrick1: Quick! Quick! Hurry! Hurry! Get to your nearest armed forces recruiters to sign up for war before it’s too late. You can fight in Iraq, or Iran, or wherever they send you in my place.
February 26th, 2007 at 5:35 pmWhy would the left be willing to fight in a war(s) they dont believe in while at the same time the right arent willing to fight a war they o believe in ?
February 26th, 2007 at 5:35 pmMitigation plan:
1. fly GDumbya and Dick the Prick to Crawford
2. lock them in at the ranch
3. disconnect the phone
4. stock the freezer with lots of ice
5. crack open a case of Jim Beam
Viola! The country will be saved from a “third crisis”.
February 26th, 2007 at 5:36 pmThat’s funny, because Bush himself is about to start the third “world crisis” when he bombs Iran.
February 26th, 2007 at 5:43 pm#1 Patrick1
Why post this on a moonbat site when the libs don’t want to fight anyone anywhere?
I know this is tough to follow, Patrick. I’m not sure we can put it in terms that are simple enough for you to grasp, but I’ll give it one more shot. You see, if we use up all of our equipment and troops and weapons on a bogus war that Bush started just for his own personal enjoyment, we won’t have that equipment and troops and weapons available for a real war against a real enemy.
And while we’re on the subject, are you okay with the idea that Bush is doing exactly what bin Laden wants him to do? Burning up money and hurting the readiness of our national defenses on a pointless adventure in Iraq?
The bin Laden slogan goes something like: “Let’s fight them over here in the Middle East so they won’t be able to fight anymore anywhere else in the world.” And Bush is just dopey enough to fall for it. In fact, it’s just like ‘rope-a-dope’ on a massive scale.
February 26th, 2007 at 5:43 pmViola! The country will be saved from a “third crisisâ€.
Comment by Tom
Let’s take up a collection to fund this plan. :)
February 26th, 2007 at 5:46 pmWhy post this on a moonbat site when the libs don’t want to fight anyone anywhere?
Comment by Patrick1
Lets declare war officially against Saudi Arabia… Now its your turn. Why not?
February 26th, 2007 at 5:50 pmWrong, we want to fight the Taliban in Afghanistan and al Qaida in Pakistan.
We don’t want to be stuck in the middle of a civil war, of our creation, in Iraq.
February 26th, 2007 at 5:54 pmYeah, Gerald Gibson is correct. The thrid place we should be fighting in is Saudi Arabia.
So, to recap. Us moonbats want to fight:
Taliban in Afghanistan
al Qaida in Pakistan
al Qaida in Saudi Arabia
February 26th, 2007 at 5:59 pmIf it’s classified, how do you know what it says?
February 26th, 2007 at 5:59 pm#13 ~ Ron, it’s called leaking. You know, like the chymps Depends.
February 26th, 2007 at 6:04 pmCurrently no liberal is calling for an attack on either Saudi Arabia or Pakistan. The problem with the left is they simply don’t believe America is worth defending.
February 26th, 2007 at 6:15 pmStay on topic, Pat-back.
So how does this affect your desire to annihilate Iran? What if China decides to defend it’s Mid East oil buddies (Iran/Syria) by calling us on the trillions in debt? What if they persuade the Mid East to start trading in Euros for oil? Then they shoot down a couple of Military satellites?
Who’s/What’s left to defend the third front, oh wise Neocon bottom feeders?
Your fear of the Radical Islamists will cause YOU to destroy the U.S. from within, just like the collapse of the Soviet Union during the Cold War.
IDIOTS.
February 26th, 2007 at 6:26 pmFirst, you can’t say “no liberal” when two of us just did.
Second, do you know the difference between offense and defense?
What we are doing in Iraq is offense, not defense. If a knight attacks a castle, he is partaking in offense. The people in side the castle are defending it. The National Guard troops that are here in America are Defending it. The National Guard troops in Iraq are taking part in an offensive manuver.
February 26th, 2007 at 6:30 pmThe problem with the left is they simply don’t believe America is worth defending.
Comment by Patrick1
I don’t see you over there defending America from …. what? A sovergn nation led by a dictator who never threatened or attacked America in the first place?
And please, spare us the Bush-Cheney bullshit about Sadam’s connection to Al Qaeda.
February 26th, 2007 at 6:31 pmWhere would the left make their stand? It wasn’t in New York after the first world trade center bombing, it wasn’t in Africa after the embassies blew up, it wasn’t Yemen when the Cole was sunk and it wasn’t in Saudi Arabia, they don’t like the Taliban being gone and they are really pissed about Saddam being dead.
What is the left’s plan? So far it can be summed up in one word, Okinawa.
February 26th, 2007 at 6:36 pmZooey; I got slammed last Saturday, too tired to pursue that e-mail, logging off early tonight too, but I will catch up with you soon.
February 26th, 2007 at 6:38 pmIf I was in charge, step number one would be to round up traitors to this country like you Patrick1.
February 26th, 2007 at 6:41 pmRighto, Uncle Ho. :)
February 26th, 2007 at 6:41 pmPatrick1; I will fight IF and WHEN they are literally on Malibu beach but NOT before. If you are spoiling for a fight, get your ass in the army right now or STFU. I already had my war-Vietnam.
February 26th, 2007 at 6:41 pmWhy Malibu? When your ideology didn’t want to do anything when they were in New York City.
February 26th, 2007 at 6:43 pmPatrick, where were the Republicans screaming for vengeance in the 1990’s?
They were screaming for Bill Clinton’s penis on a platter. When Clinton bombed Afghanistan and the Sudan the Republican right was upset.
The Republican right screamed for Bill Clinton to withdraw from George H.W. Bush’s war in Somalia the moment there were US casualties.
Bill Clinton stopped the Y2k attacks. Executed Tim McVeigh, imprisoned the Blind Sheikh for life after WTC1.
The Republican right have clowned their way into Iraq and enjoy watching US troops getting blown to bits while they use the power of the US military like CityCorps painting schools and handing out candy.
The Republican right enjoy every single dead US soldier coming home under cover of darkness. The Republican right laughs at dead US troops and leap for glee everytime a reporter is killed too.
Now the Taliban is more powerful and ready for a big spring resurgence.
Great work asswipes.
-GSD
February 26th, 2007 at 6:46 pmHey dipsh!t, the perpetrators of the first WTC bombing were caught and jailed, unlike the perpetrators of the second WTC bombing.
You can lie to your republican friends, but it doesn’t work here.
February 26th, 2007 at 6:47 pmBut the planners, financiers and organization went merrily on..leading to 9/11. I ask again, does the American left have a plan to fight Islamo Fascism besides the United States running to Okinawa?
February 26th, 2007 at 6:50 pmAll I say is, Bushland Uber Allies HAD BETTER HOPE Hook-nose Ahmadinejad or Lil’ Kim Jong Mentally-Ill don’t get the URGE to do some MISCHIEF and MAYHEM because the U.S. SURE AS HELL DOESN’T HAVE ENOUGH TROOPS TO GO AFTER THOSE TWO!!!!! Bush, Cheney and Rice BETTER START READING UP ON “DIPLOMACY FOR DUMMIES,” because Bushland Uber Allies DOESN’T KNOW WHAT THE HELL THEY ARE DOING OR WHAT TO DO IN THE CASE OF A THIRD or is that TURD CRISIS, BECAUSE WHEN THE SHIT-TURDS HIT THE FAN, CHIMPya, Cheney, Rice, Rove and Bushland Uber Allies WILL HAVE THEIR FACES BESMIRCHED WITH PROBLEMS!!!!!
February 26th, 2007 at 6:51 pmDoes the American left want to go after the mullahs? If they don’t and they don’t really want to go after anyone but Bush, why do they care what shape the American military is end. Because when they had the chance to use it against the fascists in the 1990s, they didn’t.
February 26th, 2007 at 6:55 pmThe problem with the left is they simply don’t believe America is worth defending.
Comment by Patrick1 — February 26, 2007 @ 6:15 pm
Whoa, slow down there guy. This is what is called a straw man. Doesn’t work around these parts.
February 26th, 2007 at 6:56 pmThen what is their current plan to defeat the Islamists?
February 26th, 2007 at 6:57 pmFirst is to give all of the scaredy cats like you some diapers, a teddy bear and a blanky, that way you will feel safe and secure. don’t worry, we can make the blanky an American flag, that way you can wrap yourself up in your nationalism.
February 26th, 2007 at 7:01 pmIt seems our new resident troll is working overtime to avoid the topic of the thread -it must really hurt their frail psyche: Pres Bush’s disastrous military (mis)adventure in the MiddleEast, has over-stretched the military to the point where even the higher echelons of the US military are sounding the alarm.
Of course, a true Bush cultist will gnore that and instead change the subject to the left’s “appeasing terrorists”, the lack of a “plan” (the kind we were told was not needed), and the other usual talking points -ad nauseam. Yawn.
February 26th, 2007 at 7:01 pmpat-
February 26th, 2007 at 7:03 pmyou are such an a$$hole it is unbelievable. who is paying you to subvert this site?
it has to be willfull ignorance- and i say paid because it mimicks what the faux news pundits do. they are obviously paid to rabble-rouse. i don’t think they even believe it. it’s just there is money in dividing the populace by spewing BS.
And when the psychos in the White House are shitting in their pants and hiding in the deep bunkers following an attack on Iran, will they have a plan to send FEMA to deal with the multiple disasters from sea to shining sea that will result? I mean, does anyone doubt that the Iranians have hundreds of sleeper agents inside the land of the sheep with lots of ABC weapons only awaiting orders to give us a bit of mass destruction? Are you republican bastards prepared to die for BushChaney’s madness? You will. And you won’t even have to enlist in the Army to meet your maker( even if you had the balls to do so, which you don’t….Bullies never do).
February 26th, 2007 at 7:03 pmThe left is appeasing terrorist and if anyone believed this thread they would actually try something, but haven’t because they know it is not true. We are using only a small amount of our overall forces and capabilities in Iraq. I know the left wishes it were otherwise but it is not. I do find it interesting that they are concerned about the readiness of a force they shown they won’t use.
February 26th, 2007 at 7:04 pmFunny how Vince, Patrick and Michael seem to work in shifts… Never answering questions, always dodging reality, and repeating the same inane talking points.
Even Bill O’Lielly isn’t absurd enough to still defend the Bush Regime every step of the way – he just focuses on other petty nonsense now instead… Perhaps you boys should do the same, considering how you’re always getting spanked and haven’t converted a single soul here…
February 26th, 2007 at 7:06 pmI don’t intend to convert. As so many others have when you get a job you will become a conservative. My purpose is to educate and make fun of.
February 26th, 2007 at 7:09 pmI do find it interesting that they are concerned about the readiness of a force they shown they won’t use.
Comment by Patrick1 — February 26, 2007 @ 7:04 pm
And you continue to dodge my question about why no one attacks Switzerland. Rich First World Switzerland, by the way… Why can’ty ou just admit that peace begets peace, and the US military policy of war simply begets more war?
For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. Give violence, you get violence. Basic stuff.
February 26th, 2007 at 7:10 pmAnd when the psychos in the White House are shitting in their pants and hiding in the deep bunkers following an attack on Iran, will they have a plan to send FEMA to deal with the multiple disasters from sea to shining sea that will result? I mean, does anyone doubt that the Iranians have hundreds of sleeper agents inside the land of the sheep with lots of ABC weapons only awaiting orders to give us a bit of mass destruction? Are you republican bastards prepared to die for BushChaney’s madness? You will. And you won’t even have to enlist in the Army to meet your maker( even if you had the balls to do so, which you don’t….Bullies never do).
Comment by crazyvietnamveteranagainstfailedwars
The russians did do that… I am not so sure the Iranians have got what it takes to be that forward leaning against us.
February 26th, 2007 at 7:15 pmSwitzerland? Now you are being a comic.
February 26th, 2007 at 7:17 pmTo Patrick the tool/troll:
RE 35 above:
Yeah, keep thinking that we have all this ready reserve prepared to “take THEM on”…I guess you know something that General Pace does not.
YOu have nothing to fear but stupidy itself.
February 26th, 2007 at 7:18 pmNot sure if you are getting an education, but we sure are making fun of you.
February 26th, 2007 at 7:19 pm#42 Spudge Boy
Patrick1 is actually proving how intelligent people on the right are. They can swallow the talking points fed to them, and regurgitate them every time reality threatens their little nut-topia. Of course, us liberals are all stupid since we take the time to think about things and actually question certain points that do not make sense. If we were smart, we would abandon critical and analytical thinking that causes such pain and despair for blissful ignorance, that way we could all be happy right up until the point our government decides our planet no longer needs to exist.
February 26th, 2007 at 7:25 pmSwitzerland? Now you are being a comic.
Comment by Patrick1 — February 26, 2007 @ 7:17 pm
In other words, you’re stumped and think this silly retort will serve to hide that fact… LOL… About as much as a cow hiding behind the head of a pin…
As I already stated, you haven’t converted anyone – none of you and your juvenile brethern have – so go waste your time watching reruns of Jackass on MTV instead..
February 26th, 2007 at 7:26 pmMy purpose is to educate
Comment by Patrick1 — February 26, 2007 @ 7:09 pm
Now this is really funny.
Yes, please, Patrick -educate us on how Iran was not building a nuclear power plant before the 1979 overthrow of the Shah, how the Shah never signed a nuclear cooperation treaty with the US, and how his government did not see nuclear power as a good alternative for energy generation in Iran.
/sarcasm off
When you are done with that, educate us on why we should consider your opinion on the US military readiness over Gen. Pace’s.
Do try, Patrick1.
February 26th, 2007 at 8:11 pmWho would be silly enough to pay Patrick1 to post here — not even the republiscum — I think he is just naturally stupid.
February 26th, 2007 at 8:23 pmHe doesn’t even see that the “mitigation” probably involves a draft — and if he’s under 42, he will be on the list to go and demonstrate his fealty to his boy-king George and his insane plan to rule the world in his real-life game of Risk.
“Islam makes it incumbent on all adult males, provided they are not disabled and incapacitated, to prepare themselves for the conquest of [other] countries so that the writ of Islam is obeyed in every country in the world. But those who study Islamic Holy War will understand why Islam wants to conquer the whole world…. Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those [who say this] are witless. Islam says Kill all the unbelievers just as they would kill you all! Does this mean that Muslims should sit back until they are devoured by [the unbelievers] Islam says Kill them [the non-Muslims], put them to the sword and scatter [their armies]. Does this mean sitting back until [non-Muslims] overcome us Islam says Kill in the service of Allah those who may want to kill you! Does this mean that we should surrender to the enemy Islam says Whatever good there is exists thanks to the sword and in the shadow of the sword! People cannot be made obedient except with the sword! The sword is the key to Paradise, which can be opened only for Holy Warriors! There are hundreds of other [Koranic] verses and Hadiths [sayings of the Prophet] urging Muslims to value war and to fight. Does all that mean that Islam is a religion that prevents men from waging war I spit upon those foolish souls who make such a claim.†– Ayatollah Khomeini
“The final goal of the revolution is to create global Islamic rule and a regime of law to be led by the Imam Mahdiâ€. – commandant of Iran’s elite Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps, Major General Yahya Rahim Safavi
an advisor to the new Iranian govt says his country’s objective is the destruction of the evil in the world perputated by England and the nations derived from England
commandant of Iran’s elite Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps, Major General Yahya Rahim Safavi, said on state television, “The final goal of the [1979] revolution is to create global Islamic rule and a regime of law to be led by the Imam Mahdiâ€. “God willing, the 21st century will see the defeat of the U.S. and the Zionists, and the victory of freedom-seeking nations of the worldâ€.
Commandant of Iran’s elite Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps, Major General Yahya Rahim Safavi, said on state television. “God willing, the 21st century will see the defeat of the U.S. and the Zionists, and the victory of freedom-seeking nations of the world. The final goal of the [1979] revolution is to create global Islamic rule and a regime of law to be led by the Imam Mahdiâ€.
The [Iranians] President’s chief strategist, Hassan Abbassi, has come up with a war plan based on the premise that “Britain is the mother of all evils†– the evils being America, Australia, New Zealand, Israel, the Gulf states and even Canada, all of whom are the malign progeny of the British Empire. “We have a strategy drawn up for the destruction of Anglo-Saxon civilization,†says Mr Abbassi. “There are 29 sensitive sites in the U.S. and in the West. We have already spied on these sites and we know how we are going to attack them… Once we have defeated the Anglo-Saxons the rest will run for cover.â€
The IRGC chief warned that Iran was seeing through “critical days†and “fate-determining yearsâ€. He described the purpose of Iran’s 1979 Islamic revolution as the “Salvation of Muslims†from the hands of the “oppressive U.S. and Israelâ€.
February 26th, 2007 at 8:35 pmIt’s Bill Clinton’s fault our military is half the size it was when it was given to him in 1992
February 26th, 2007 at 8:36 pmBush did not invent the Iraq – Osama connection.
Evidence:
http://vincep312.home.comcast.net
On my page there, near the end, is a video of ABC News from 1999 on such connections.
February 26th, 2007 at 8:38 pmunanswerable says: Funny how Vince, Patrick and Michael seem to work in shifts… Never answering questions, always dodging reality, and repeating the same inane talking points.
I ignore half of them because the current situation in the world isn’t altered by your pointing out anything from the past. Asking me what I think about what Bush did in 1756 doesn’t change the fact that we’re living in history’s 3rd Islamic Jihad.
February 26th, 2007 at 8:40 pmWatch the Democrats eat their own:
http://hotair.com/archives/2007/02/26/video-peace-creeps-beg-cops-to-arrest-patty-murray-for-war-crimes/
February 26th, 2007 at 8:54 pmIt’s Bill Clinton’s fault our military is half the size it was when it was given to him in 1992
Comment by Vince P — February 26, 2007 @ 8:36 pm
Unlike the war-mongering Resident in charge now, he didn’t need it to be big. Besides, Bush has had 6 years to enlarge it. Not surprising that he cannot.
And, see my Switzerland comment…
February 26th, 2007 at 8:56 pmI ignore half of them because the current situation in the world isn’t altered by your pointing out anything from the past.
You ignore them because you cannot answer them.
History forgotten is destined to be repeated. No wonder you keep beating the same dead horse and expecting different results…
Besides,I was talking about Switzerland not being attacked despite their enormous wealth and higher standard of living than we have (the very thing you people claim got us attacked on 9/11… so why not them? I bet you can’t answer that and will instead say something utterly asinine instead.)
Asking me what I think about what Bush did in 1756 doesn’t change the fact that we’re living in history’s 3rd Islamic Jihad.
Comment by Vince P — February 26, 2007 @ 8:40 pm
Unlike you, I know that Bush wasn’t alive in 1756.
I also know that the Muslims were fighting one another in teh Middle East until we poked our noses into it. Kindalike whining about being stung after stirring the beehive. You dolts will never understand cause and effect because your paranoia has shut off your higher brain functions…
February 26th, 2007 at 9:01 pmBill Clinton’s inaction lead to the current state of international affairs.. the world got steadily more dangerous under his watch, and those dangers exploded early in Bush’s terms. Any objective person would see that.
February 26th, 2007 at 9:02 pmMore Religion of Pieces love:
Man hit by cab after muslim driver made anti-Semetic [sic] comments. (Hat tip: LGF readers.)
A Nashville cabbie made anti-Semitic statements and praised Adolph Hitler’s campaign against Jews during a religious argument that culminated when he ran over one of the passengers as he left the taxi, witnesses said during a hearing today.
The cab driver, Ibrahim Ahmed, said Hitler was “trying to rid the world of Jews,†the alleged victim, Jeremie Imbus, told the court.
“I just remember …(being)… I guess the word is ‘shocked,’†Imbus said of the Feb. 18 incident.
Imbus and his friend Andrew Nelson, both of Ohio, had come to town to visit a friend and had been out drinking in downtown bars earlier in the evening. Imbus, who was wheeled into the courtroom in a wheelchair, said he couldn’t remember much about the night.
But his friend, Nelson, said he pulled Imbus out of the cab as he kicked at the back of the cabbie’s seat. Both men the took off running, he said. Nelson heard the vehicle accelerate and then saw the mini-van hit his friend, he testified. Imbus suffered a broken leg, a fractured pelvic bone and several other injuries.
Ahmed, 37, was working for United Cab Co., at the time. He faces charges of attempted criminal homicide.
February 26th, 2007 at 9:04 pmIn the post-cold war, with the bankruptcy of Russia and the destruction of the Berlin wall, there was a great push from congress to shave the defense department budget.
February 26th, 2007 at 9:04 pmSorry, Vince P, the world got steadily more dangerous under the watch of Bush. What are you doing having a pissing contest? A contest that Bush could proudly win.
February 26th, 2007 at 9:08 pmUnbelievable: Please tell me which group of people the US found itself at war with it shortly after the Revolution and was in fact, our first overseas military engagement.
February 26th, 2007 at 9:09 pmRE: blaming b.clinton for g.bush mistakes…..Actually its all George washtington’s fault. He didn’t dispatch the revolutionary army to attack the islamic caliphate….father of all mistakes….
February 26th, 2007 at 9:09 pmMarie: I realize that. It was callled the so-called “peace dividend”.
It’s a mistake the United States always makes when it thinks a major conflict it had fought is resolved. The world is not so accomodating unfortunately.
February 26th, 2007 at 9:12 pmMarie: there is no denyign the world is getting increasily more dangerous all the time. I didnt’ mean to say that bush had stopped the progression.
However, Clinton was president at a strategic time.. the inception of the global jihad movement.. if more was done then, perhaps this movement could have been aborted, unfortunately, it’s gone to full term and the egg hatched in 2001.
February 26th, 2007 at 9:15 pmI’m not one to dwell on the past though, what’s done is done. We must fight it now, lest the same mistakes be made. We cannot allow them to control territory and establish stablity that they will use to scheme schemes.. instead they must be kept on a continious defensive posture.
Vince P.
Obviously you are not an objective person … otherwise you would be a liberal.
And the US found itself at war with middle eastern nations that were engaged in piracy for economic purposes, not anti-western jihadists. I would suggest you take some history courses, but the history channel would do just to relieve you of your historical ignorance.
BTW, I thought you said “the current situation in the world isn’t altered by your pointing out anything from the past. ” Therefore that reputes all your attempts to point to history to prove the violent nature of Islam.
February 26th, 2007 at 9:17 pmAshen WHat I meant about the past was this:
I say: We’re facing jihad in Waziristan
Someoen will counter: well if reagan didn’t fire the ATC in 1981 this woulnd’t have happend.
(I’m being absurd on purpose), even if Reagan’s firing ATC did have something to do with it, we’re in 2007 and nothing about talking about what happened in 1981 changes that.
In other words,, the tactic of responding to something I say by asking me to acknoweldge some past decision as if it disproves what I said is a fallacy.
And then your statement about teh Barbary war is wrong. Jefferson himself disputes you:
In 1786 Jefferson and John Adams went to negotiate with Tripoli’s envoy to London, Ambassador Sidi Haji Abdrahaman or (Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja). They asked him by what right he extorted money and took slaves. Jefferson reported to Secretary of State John Jay, and to the Congress:
The ambassador answered us that [the right] was founded on the Laws of the Prophet (Mohammed), that it was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have answered their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as prisoners, and that every Mussulman who should be slain in battle was sure to go to heaven
February 26th, 2007 at 9:29 pmWar against Islam was the first war this country found itself in. This is the nature of the Islam,.. perputual war.
February 26th, 2007 at 9:31 pm“Jefferson .. deduced that the best way to learn about the political, military, social, economic, and religious agendas of America’s enemies was to read the best textbook on all things Muslim. So he read the Koran in what for his day was a state-of-the-art translation into English directly from the Arabic. Jefferson’s copy of the Koran equipped him with everything he needed to know on how to respond to threats from the caliphates of the early 1800s.
In response to a declaration of war on the United States of America by the Barbary Coast caliphates, Thomas Jefferson sent the USS Constitution to the Mediterranean in 1803. The fighting during those days saw so many acts of heroism that established the U.S. Navy as a force to be reckoned with.
In 1805, the Constitution supported the landing of Marines “on the shores of Tripoli†in an action that later was immortalized in the Marine Corps Hymn. The Americans and their allies destroyed the harbor citadel at Derna that served as the headquarters for the pirates.
The first blue-water ocean-going war machine of the new United States Navy turned the Tripoli harbor from state-of-the-art fortifications (state-of-the-art for 18th century Muslims, that is) back to 7th century piles of rubble. The United States Navy literally freed the Mediterranean and the world from domination by militant Islam for nearly 200 years.
The crew of the USS Constitution beat the tar out of those international terrorists. That led to a peace treaty that lasted for almost two hundred years until September 11th, 2001, when conservative, Wahhabi-type, radical Islam killed nearly 3,000 Americans.
Jefferson’s resolve to fight had its beginings in his reading the Koran as the best source of the time that was all things Muslim. Jefferson knew that 18th century Americans were in danger from what we call today conservative, Wahhabi-type, radical Islam. ”
Like Jefferson, I too have read what the texts the Muslims belive in and produce and I too came to his conclusion. We must defend ourselves by taking the battle to them.
February 26th, 2007 at 9:47 pmVince P.
Perpetual war is the nature of all humans. Many people find excuses in religion to do what they do. So you cannot just single out Muslims for it.
And actually, the first war this country found itself in, if you discount the Revolution, was the Whiskey Rebellion, which was against our own citizens.
The war we ended up in with the Muslim countries was due to our countries ignorance. Those countries had been excising tribute from every nation which used those waters for trade for generations. Our leaders arrogantly thought we were different, and suffered for it. In the end, they ended up paying the tribute anyway and nothing happened.
You should realize that most Muslims are peaceful and do not believe in the ideology of Jihad. If they did, your worst fear about them conquering the world would already have been realized. Like any religion, there are extremists. The extremists should be dealt with and those that are peaceful should not be punished for the crimes of a few individuals.
February 26th, 2007 at 9:48 pmAshen it’s amazing how far you’ll go, including lies, to whitewash the Jihad.
In the beginning of the conflict, Adams thought it was best to appease them, just like the Europeans thought. however, in the end we SMASHED the Muslims and demanded tribute FROM them.
And you make it sound like we were in their terroritorial waters.. no, they were seizing all kinds of ships all throughout the mediterrean. You are continiously wrong about the facts. You were wrong about there not being a religious motivation, you were wrong about the scope of the sea they operated in, you were wrong about the resolution.
You are wrong a lot, yet you thnk you’re going to correct me? hah. You need to study some more. Someone as wrong as you shouldn’t be so sure that you’re right especially against someone like me who has spent years studyingthis stuff directly.
February 26th, 2007 at 9:53 pmAnd it doesn’t matter how most Muslims behave. What matters is their ideology. Islam contains within it everything a Muslim needs to behave in a barabarious violent way toward Non-Muslims. The fact that any number of Muslims choose to ignore those parts of the ideology doesn’t negate their validity within that faith.
So yes, not every Muslim is a terrorist. but Islam is prone to terrorism uniquely. in that it is the only major religion which commands its believers of all time to kill non-believers. No other religion has those insturctions. And before you start pasting OT verses, remember no matter how bad you think the OT is, the Koran matches it in every respect and even more, so it’s irrelevent to point out something the size of an insect to distract from a super-nova-sized problem
February 26th, 2007 at 9:56 pmIs Bush the Anti-Christ?
The Bible gives us a way to prove whether or not a person is the Antichrist. Rev 13:18 says: “Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.” That is, the number 666. St. John the apostle, the author of Revelation, was a Jew who wrote in Greek, though he did his thinking in Hebrew. He knew that every Hebrew letter has a numeric equivalent, and that’s how the number 666 originated. Gematria is the process of adding up or counting the letters of the Hebrew alphabet in a word or name.
G = 3 (gimel)
e = 5 (heh)
o = 70 (ayin)
r = 200 (resh)
g = 3 (gimel)
e = 5 (heh)
B = 2 (beth)
u = 70 (ayin)
s = 300 (shin)
h = 8 (cheth)
total = 666 (Antichrist)
“Revelation 13:1-2 “And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns upon its horns, and a blasphemous name upon its heads. And the beast I saw was like a leopard, its feet were like a bear’s, and its mouth was like a lion’s mouth. And to it the dragon gave his power and his throne and great authority. One of the heads of the beast seemed to have a mortal wound, but the mortal wound had been healed.â€
This beast is the image of an empire – the final world empire, and the one that gives rise to the Antichrist. Its body is likened to a leopard, because according to Victorinus, a father of the early church ““This signifies the kingdom of that time of Antichrist, and the people mingled with the variety of nations.†The spots on the leopard represent a multi-national, multi-racial, and multi-cultural ‘melting pot’..
The mouth is like a lion because Americans speak English, and the United States was once an English colony, and England has always been represented by a lion on the Royal Coat of Arms of the United Kingdom.
It says this beast comes out of the sea, and this is in reference to the New World, which was discovered by navigators like Columbus. The United States came out of the sea in the sense that at the time of St. John’s vision, it was assumed that the only thing west of Europe and east of the orient was water and the end of the world.
“Daniel 7: 7-8 “After that, in my vision at night I looked, and there before me was a fourth beast- terrifying and frightening and very powerful. It had large iron teeth; it crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. It was different from all the former beasts, and it had ten horns. While I was thinking about the horns, there before me was another horn, a little one, which came up among them; and three of the first horns were uprooted before it. This horn had eyes like the eyes of a man and a mouth that spoke boastfully.â€
Horns symbolize power or virility, and the horns of the beast represent the powerful men who have come to rule over the American empire. Daniel says quite explicitly (Dan 7: 24) “the ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom. After them another king will arise, different from the earlier ones. (the Antichrist)†America acquired superpower status, and gained the reach of a world-class Empire, when it acquired the nuclear bomb – at the very end of WWII. Since then there have been exactly ten “kings†or post-war presidents: Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, BushSr, and Clinton.
The prophecy from Daniel says that after these ten presidents, there will appear another one, an arrogant “little hornâ€, which is the Antichrist, George W Bush. It says this “little horn†is unlike the other ten presidents, and this is in reference to the fact that Bush had no popular mandate, that he lost the popular vote by over a million votes, and was appointed to office when five un-elected judges on the Supreme Court stopped the counting of votes in Florida. This never happened before in American history, and it makes him different from his predecessors – that and his arrogance, dishonesty, law-breaking, and lust for world power.
It also says that “three of the first horns (10 presidents) were uprooted before it.†Bush is a far-right Republican, and this in reference to the fact that when Bush Jr came to office, right-wing conspiracies had already uprooted and destroyed the presidencies of three previous key Democratic presidents, thereby changing history and sabotaging a more moderate course for the nation: John Kennedy, by assassination, Jimmy Carter, through the Iran hostage crisis “October Surprise†, and finally the Monica Lewinski sex impeachment. (which ultimately damaged Gore, as part of the Clinton/Gore presidency.) In all three of these right-wing conspiracies, there was direct involvement by the Bush crime family.
Finally, what about the seven heads? Just as the ten crowns represent the power held by ten empires that divided the power of Rome, the seven heads are the G-7. Group of Seven, seven industrialized nations of the world, formed in 1976 when Canada joined the Group of Six (United States of America, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, United Kingdom).
Most of all look at everything that is happening in the world today. We are on the brink of WWIII.
February 26th, 2007 at 10:00 pmVince P.
I’m a historian in training, you are a fascist sheep. I suggest you not try and challenge me on matters of history, but I guess you enjoy being proven false. This is not my area of expertise, but I still happen to be much closer to the truth than you are.
Read this, its a good summary, don’t make me embarrass you any more by getting a more extensive source for you:
http://www.answers.com/topic/first-barbary-war
btw, we paid them $60,000 for the release of prisoners.
February 26th, 2007 at 10:03 pmI remember freaks like “Bush is the AntiChrist” on the Morton Downy Jr. show.. they were saying how Ronald Reagan was the Anti Christ because his names Ronald Wilson Reagan each had 6 letters. retards then, retards now.
February 26th, 2007 at 10:03 pm#67, Bush is the Anti-Christ
Please, he doesn’t have any ability, don’t give him credit for anything, he might start to believe it.
February 26th, 2007 at 10:03 pm>btw, we paid them $60,000 for the release of prisoners
I acknoweldged that.. “In the beginning of the conflict, Adams thought it was best to appease them”
So eager to prove me wrong that you dont even read what I say. Well, I should know better than engage with people who are only interested in repeating the echo.
February 26th, 2007 at 10:11 pmVince P.
The echo you are talking about is reality and objectivity. That 60k was paid as part of the deal to end the war.
February 26th, 2007 at 10:16 pmWrong again.
“After persistent demands for recompensation mingled with threats of destruction, the Dey [the Muslim leader] capitulated. Decatur [United States] agreed to return the captured Meshuda and Estedio while the Algerians returned all American (and a significant proportion of European) captives along with $10,000 in payment for seized shipping. The treaty guaranteed no further tributes and granted American shipping full rights.”
February 26th, 2007 at 10:34 pm#73
If you want to play academic, cite your source please.
February 26th, 2007 at 10:39 pmCorrection, since TP seems to be changing numbers constantly, Vince P. cite your source please.
February 26th, 2007 at 10:40 pmARTICLE 1st
There shall be from the Conclusion of this treaty, a firm inviolable and universal peace and friendship between the President and Citizens of the United States of America on the one part, and the Dey and Subjects of the Regency of Algiers in Barbary, on the other, made by the free consent of both parties and upon the terms of the most favored nations; and if either party shall hereafter grant to any other nation, any particular favor or privilege in navigation or Commerce it shall immediately become common to the other party, freely when freely it is granted to such other nation; but when the grant is conditional, it shall be at the option of the contracting parties to accept, alter, or reject such conditions, in such manner as shall be most conducive to their respective interests.
ARTICLE 2d
It is distinctly understood between the Contracting parties, that no tribute either as biennial presents, or under any other form or name whatever, shall ever be required by the Dey and Regency of Algiers from the United States of America on any pretext whatever.
ARTICLE 3rd
The Dey of Algiers shall cause to be immediately delivered up to the American Squadron now off Algiers all the American Citizens now in his possession, amounting to ten more or less, and all the Subjects of the Dey of Algiers now in the power of the United States amounting to five hundred more or less, shall be delivered up to him, the United States according to the usages of civilized nations requiring no ransom for the excess of prisoners in their favor.
ARTICLE 4th
A just and full compensation shall be made by the Dey of Algiers to such citizens of the United States, as have been Captured, and detained by Algerine Cruizers, or who have been forced to abandon their property in Algiers in violation of the 22d article of the treaty of peace and amity1 concluded between the United States and the Dey of Algiers on the 5 September 1795.
And it is agreed between the contracting parties, that in lieu of the above, the Dey of Algiers shall cause, to be delivered forthwith into the hands of the American Consul residing in Algiers the whole of a quantity of Bales of Cotton left by the late Consul General of the United States in the public magazines in Algiers; and that he shall pay into the hands of the said Consul the sum of ten thousand Spanish dollars.
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/diplomacy/barbary/bar1815t.htm
February 26th, 2007 at 10:42 pmIf you’re a historian in training.. you sure have a lot of training to do.
Call me a NAZI now for quoting the treaty directly.
February 26th, 2007 at 10:46 pmFirst off Vince P., that is from the second barbary war, not the first, and you were saying that it was after that first war that we received tribute. We did not, and when you add in the amount we received upon the end of the 2nd, our country had still paid more to the barbery state than they paid to us.
And your still a fascist since picking any group out as different and then saying we should treat them differently is using the same rhetoric as the NSDAP used for the Jews, they are different, a danger, and thus must be dealt with as such to protect our people.
And your accusing me of not being objective is laughable since you are quite subjective by coming here with the belief that Islam is inherently different and inherently violent. I don’t think you could get more subjective than that. If you want to be objective, you compare Islam to every other religion in history. You do that, and you realize its inherent to religion in general and not just one religion. If you do that, then you might start to comprehend reality.
February 26th, 2007 at 10:57 pmI dont know how to put it any plainer… Islam is unique in its commands for all future believers to kill non-believers.
Prove me wrong… should be easy to do.
I take Islam at its word.. that makes me objective. You are applying your own cultural values and applying them on all faiths universally with no evidence.
About the Barbary War.. yes, I was always referring to its eventual conclusion.. why would I have restricted myself to the first round of battles?
Not sure what the point of ignoring the 2nd and final war is.
Regarding NAZI’s.. it’s Islam which teaches that Muslims will not get thier messiah until they kill all Jews on earth. It doesn’t make me a NAZI to notice that. It makes them a NAZI for having that as a part of thier faith.
February 26th, 2007 at 11:07 pmVince P.
You dismiss all the examples I have given. You are blind because you are so afraid. Most Muslims wish to live in peace. Look at the Five Pillars of Islam, there is no call for war and the killing of non-believers.
BTW, they consider Christians and Jews as brothers of the book. If all Muslims followed their Koran to the core (which they don’t), they won’t annihilate brothers of the book who do not attack them first.
You cannot take any religion at its word, no religion follows their teachings to the word. If you realized that, you would realize that Islam itself is not a danger, but the extremists who wish to apply every word of the Koran to every person in the world, as Christian extremists wish to apply every word of the Bible to every person in the world.
I am against all religious extremism, and I know the dangers of Islamic extremism. In addition to that I know the dangers of Christian extremism, and Jewish extremism. I also realize that every other religion in the world is capable of extremism. Even Buddhism can and has become violent.
You cannot eliminate Muslims from our country, and if you could, there is always another group to be afraid of. The best thing to do is realize the danger and understand that it is universal. Present Islamic fundamentalism is part of the greater problem of the adaptation to modernity. People don’t understand change, don’t like change, and so they react to it, sometimes violently. The problem must be identified and dealt with proatively, not in reactionary fits that will only ensure continued unrest, violence, and ignorance.
February 26th, 2007 at 11:28 pmRegarding “People of the Book”… (you are so easily deceived.. by one phrase! Did you bother to look deeper?)
Qur’an 5:17 “Verily they are disbelievers and infidels who say, ‘The Messiah, son of Mary, is God.’”
Qur’an 5:51 “Believers, take not Jews and Christians for your friends. They are but friends and protectors to each other.”
Qur’an 5:72 “They are surely infidels who blaspheme and say: ‘God is Christ, the Messiah, the son of Mary.’ But the Messiah only said: ‘O Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.’”
Qur’an 74:31 “We have appointed nineteen angels to be the wardens of the Hell Fire. We made a stumbling-block for those who disbelieve and We have fixed their number as a trial for unbelievers in order that the People of the Book may arrive with certainty, and that no doubts may be left for the People of the Book, those in whose hearts is a disease.”
Ishaq:180 “According to my information, the Apostle often sat by a young Christian slave named Jabr. The Meccans said, ‘He is the one who teaches Muhammad most of what he brings.’ Then Allah revealed, Qur’an 16:103 ‘We know what they (pagans) say: “It is only a mortal man who teaches him (Muhammad). But the tongue of the man they wickedly point to is notably foreign, while this (Qur’an) is pure Arabic.’”
Qur’an 72:15 “But the Qasitun (disbelievers) are the firewood of hell.”
Qur’an 88:1 “Has the narration reached you of the overwhelming (calamity)? Some faces (Jews and Christians) that Day, will be humiliated, downcast, scorched by the burning fire, while they are made to drink from a boiling hot spring.”
Qur’an 9:29 “Fight those who do not believe in Allah or the Last Day, who do not forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, or acknowledge the Religion of Truth (Islam), (even if they are) People of the Book (Christians and Jews), until they pay the Jizyah tribute tax in submission, feeling themselves subdued and brought low.” [Another translation says:] “pay the tax in acknowledgment of our superiority and their state of subjection.”
Ishaq:552 “The Quraysh had put pictures in the Ka’aba including two of Jesus and one of Mary. Muhammad ordered that the pictures should be erased.”
Qur’an 5:14 “From those, too, who call themselves Christians, We made a covenant, but they forgot and abandoned a good part of the message that was sent them: so we estranged them, stirred up enmity and hatred among them to the Day of Doom. Soon will Allah show them the handiwork they have done.”
Qur’an 5:15 “O People of the Book! There has come to you Our Apostle, revealing to you much that you used to hide in your Scripture, suppressing and passing over much. There has come to you from Allah a (new) light (Muhammad) and a clear Book [the Qur'an].”
Qur’an 5:17 “…Say (Muhammad): ‘Who then has the least power against Allah, if His will were to destroy Christ, the Messiah, the son of Mary, his mother, and everyone else on earth?”
Qur’an 5:18 “The Jews and the Christians say: ‘We are sons of Allah, and his beloved.’ Say: ‘Why then does He punish you for your sins? Nay, you are but men. He forgives whom He wishes and punishes whom He pleases.’”
Qur’an 5:35 “Believers, fear Allah and seek the way to approach Him, striving hard, fighting Jihad with all your might in His Cause that you may be successful. As for the disbelievers [previously defined as Christians], if they had everything on earth, two times over, to give as ransom for the penalty of the Day of Doom, it would never be accepted from them. Theirs will be a painful torment. They will desire to get out of the fire, but they shall not be released from it. They shall have an everlasting torture.”
Qur’an 5:47 “Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah has revealed therein. If any fail to judge by what Allah has revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.”
Qur’an 5:48 “To you [Christians] We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah has revealed.”
February 26th, 2007 at 11:35 pmQur’an 5:49 “And this (He commands): Judge between them by what Allah has revealed and follow not their [Christian] desires, but beware of them lest they beguile you, seducing you away from any of that which Allah hath sent down to you. And if they turn you away [from being Muslims], be assured that for their crime it is Allah’s purpose to smite them. Truly most men are rebellious.”
Qur’an 5:57 “Believers, take not for friends those who take your religion for a mockery or sport, a joke, whether among those who received the Scripture before you or among those who reject Faith; but fear Allah.”
Qur’an 5:68 “Say: ‘People of the Scripture Book! You have no ground to stand upon unless you observe the Taurat [Torah], the Injeel [Gospel], and all the Revelation that has come to you from your Lord.’ It is certain to increase their rebellion and blasphemy. But grieve you not over unbelieving people.”
Qur’an 5:72 “…Lo! Whoever joins other gods with Allah or says He has a partner, Allah has forbidden Paradise, and the Hell Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help.”
Qur’an 5:73 “They are surely disbelievers who blaspheme and say: ‘God is one of three in the Trinity for there is no Ilah (God) except One, Allah. If they desist not from saying this (blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall them—the disbelievers will suffer a painful doom.”
Qur’an 5:75 “The Messiah, Christ, the son of Mary, was no more than a messenger; many were the messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had to eat their food. See how Allah does make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded!”
Qur’an 4:157 “‘We [Jews] killed the Messiah, Jesus,’ but they killed him not, nor crucified him. It appeared so to them (as the resemblance of Jesus was put over another man and they killed that man). Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself. Those who differ with this version are full of doubts. They have no knowledge and follow nothing but conjecture. For surely they killed him not.”
Qur’an 4:171 “O People of the Book! Do not exaggerate in your religion; nor speak lies of Allah. The Messiah, Christ Jesus, the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a Spirit proceeding from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not ‘Trinity.’ Cease and Desist: (it is) better for you: for Allah is one Ilah (God). (Far it is removed from him of) having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs. The Messiah is proud to be a slave of Allah, as are the angels, those nearest. Those who disdain His worship and are arrogant. He will gather them all together unto Himself to (answer)…. He will punish with a painful doom; Nor will they find, besides Allah, any to protect or save them.”
Qur’an 4:159 “And there is none of the People of the Book but will believe in him (Jesus as only a messenger of Allah and a human being) before his (Jesus’) death. He will be a witness against them.”
February 26th, 2007 at 11:35 pmQur’an 5:77 “Say (Muhammad): ‘People of the Book, do not overstep the bounds in your religion, or follow the people who erred and led many astray. Cursed are the unbelievers among the Children of Israel by David and Jesus…. They do vile things, allying themselves with the infidels so that Allah’s indignation is upon them and in torment they will suffer for all eternity.” [Another translation reads:] “Curses were pronounced on the unbelievers, the Children of Israel who rejected Islam, by the tongues of David and of Jesus because they disobeyed and rebelled.”
Qur’an 5:80 “You see many of them allying themselves with the unbelieving infidels. Vile indeed are their souls. Allah’s wrath is on them, and in torment will they abide.”
Qur’an 5:81 “If only they had believed in Allah, in the Prophet, and in what had been revealed to him.”
Qur’an 5:82 “You will find the Jews and disbelievers [defined as Christians in 5:73] the most vehement in hatred for the Muslims.”
Qur’an 5:110 “And God will say: ‘O Jesus! Recount My favor to you and to your mother. Behold! I strengthened you with the Holy Spirit so that you spoke to the people in the cradle and in the prime of life. Behold! I taught you the law and the judgment, the Torah and the Gospel. And behold, you made out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird and you breathed into it and it became a bird by My permission. And you healed those born blind by My permission and the lepers by My permission. And behold! You raised forth the dead by My permission. And behold! I did restrain the Jews from harming you when you came with clear proofs. And the unbelievers among the Jews said: ‘This is nothing but magic.’”
Qur’an 5:111 “Behold! I inspired the [Christian] disciples to have faith in Me and My Messenger. They said, ‘We are believers, and bear witness that we prostrate ourselves to Allah as Muslims.’”
Qur’an 5:112 “Behold! The disciples, said: ‘O Jesus, can your Lord send down to us a table well laid out from heaven?’ Said Jesus: ‘Fear Allah, if you have faith.’ When the disciples said: ‘O Jesus, son of Mary, is your Lord able to send down for us a table spread with food from heaven?’ He said: “Observe your duty to Allah, if you are true believers.’” Qur’an 5:113 “They said: ‘We only wish to eat thereof to satisfy our hearts, and to know that you have told us the truth. We want to witnesses a miracle.’ Said Jesus, the son of Mary: ‘O Allah our Lord! Send us from heaven a table well laid out, that there may be for us a feast, a Sign from you.”
Qur’an 5:115 “Allah said: ‘I am going to send it down unto you, but if any of you after that disbelieves, resisting Faith [Islam], I will punish him with a torment such as I have not inflicted on any one of my creatures, man or jinn. I will punish them with a torment such as I have not inflicted on any one of my creatures.”
Qur’an 5:116 “And behold! Allah will say: ‘O Jesus, the son of Mary! Did you say unto men, worship me and my mother as two gods besides Allah?’ He will say: ‘Glory to You! Never could I utter what I had no right.”
Qur’an 5:117 “I only said what You (Allah) commanded me to say: Worship Allah, my lord and your Lord. I was a witness over them while I dwelt amongst them but you took me up. (This is a great admonition and warning to the Christians of the whole world.)”
Tabari IX:15 “One of the Ansari who was plundering the slain came upon a Thaqif boy. He discovered that he was an uncircumcised Christian. He uncovered others and then yelled out at the top of his voice, ‘Allah knows that the Thaqif are uncircumcised.”
February 26th, 2007 at 11:36 pmTabari IX:86 “Don’t seduce the Jews or Christians for incumbent on them is to pay the jizyah protection tax.”
Bukhari:V2B23N414 “The Prophet in his fatal illness said, “Allah cursed Jews and Christians because they took their Prophets’ graves as places for praying.’”
Bukhari:V5B59N727 “When Allah’s Apostle became seriously sick, he started covering his face with a woolen sheet. When he felt short of breath, he removed it, and said, ‘That is so! Allah’s curse be on Jews and Christians.’”
Bukhari:V4B55N607 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘On the night of my Ascension to Heaven, I saw Jesus with a red face as if he had just come out of a bathroom. And I resemble Abraham more than any of his offspring.’”
Qur’an 2:111 “They say: ‘None shall enter Paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian.’ Those are their (vain) desires. Say: ‘Produce your proof if you are truthful.’ Nay, whoever submits His face to Allah and surrenders, he will get his reward; on such shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. The Jews say: ‘The Christians follow nothing; and the Christians say: ‘the Jews follow nothing (true);’ Yet they (profess to) recite the (same) Scripture Book. But Allah will judge between them in their quarrel.”
Qur’an 9:30 “The Jews call Uzair the son of Allah, and the Christians say that the Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying from their mouths; they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah’s (Himself) fights against them, cursing them, damning and destroying them. How perverse are they!”
Qur’an 9:31 “They (Jews and Christians) consider their rabbis and monks to be gods besides Allah. They also took their Lord Messiah to be a god but they were commanded (in the Taurat and Injeel) to worship only One Ilah (God). There is no ilah (god) but He. Too holy is He for the partners they associate (with Him).”
Qur’an 9:34 “Believers, there are many (Christian) monks and (Jewish) rabbis who in falsehood devour the wealth of mankind and hinder (men) from the way of Allah. And there are those who bury gold and silver and spend it not in Allah’s Cause. (Muhammad) announce unto them tidings of a painful torture. On the Day [of Doom] heat will be produced out of that (wealth) in the Fire of Hell. It will be branded on their foreheads, their flanks, and their backs. ‘This is the (treasure) which you hoarded for yourselves: now taste it!’”
Qur’an 2:116 “They say: ‘Allah hath begotten a son: glory be to Him.’ Nay, to Him belongs all that is in heavens and on earth: All are subservient and obedient to Him.”
Qur’an 2:145 “Even if you were to bring to the people of the Scripture Book all the Signs, they would not follow Your Qiblah; nor are you going to follow their Qiblah; nor indeed will they follow each other’s Qiblah.”
Qur’an 2:146 “The People of the Book, unto whom We gave the Scripture, know/recognize this revelation/him as they know/recognize their own sons; But lo! a party of them knowingly conceals truth.”
February 26th, 2007 at 11:37 pmThat’s about 1/2 the relevent verses. I’ll save the other half for a rainy day.
February 26th, 2007 at 11:38 pmPace needs to tell that to Bush boy’s face. The Pentagon cannot attack Iran with Iraq and Afghanistan bleeding the US military dry.
February 26th, 2007 at 11:45 pmKill People Who Don’t Listen to Priests
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
Kill Witches
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
Kill Homosexuals
“If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.” (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
Kill Fortunetellers
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
Death for Hitting Dad
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)
Death for Cursing Parents
1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
Death for Adultery
If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
Death for Fornication
A priest’s daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)
Death to Followers of Other Religions
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
Kill Nonbelievers
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
Kill False Prophets
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, “You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord.” When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)
Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. “The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.” (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)
Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night
But if this charge is true (that she wasn’t a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father’s house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)
Kill Followers of Other Religions.
1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)
Death for Blasphemy
One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD’s name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother’s name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD’s will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, “Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD’s name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD’s name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)
Kill False Prophets
1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, ‘Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,’ do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)
2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.’ You may wonder, ‘How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?’ If the prophet predicts something in the LORD’s name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)
Infidels and Gays Should Die
So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other’s bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God’s death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)
February 26th, 2007 at 11:45 pmMurder in the Bible
The act of murder is rampant in the Bible. In much of the Bible, especially the Old Testament, there are laws that command that people be killed for absurd reasons such as working on the Sabbath, being gay, cursing your parents, or not being a virgin on your wedding night. In addition to these crazy and immoral laws, there are plenty of examples of God’s irrationality by his direct killing of many people for reasons that defy any rational explanation such as killing children who make fun of bald people, and the killing of a man who tried to keep the ark of God from falling during transport. There are also countless examples of mass murders commanded by God, including the murder of women, infants, and children.
The following passages are a very small percentage of the total passages approving of murder in the Bible. They are divided here into three parts: 1) Capital Punishment Crimes, 2) God’s Murders for Stupid Reasons, 3) Murdering Children, and 4) Miscellaneous Murders. This list is long, but it barely scratches the surface of all the murders approved of in the Bible.
1) Capital Punishment Crimes:
Kill People Who Don’t Listen to Priests
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
Kill Witches
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
Kill Homosexuals
“If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.” (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
Kill Fortunetellers
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
Death for Hitting Dad
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)
Death for Cursing Parents
1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
Death for Adultery
If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
Death for Fornication
A priest’s daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)
Death to Followers of Other Religions
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
Kill Nonbelievers
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
Kill False Prophets
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, “You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord.” When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)
Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. “The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.” (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)
Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night
But if this charge is true (that she wasn’t a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father’s house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)
Kill Followers of Other Religions.
1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)
Death for Blasphemy
One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD’s name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother’s name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD’s will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, “Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD’s name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD’s name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)
Kill False Prophets
1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, ‘Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,’ do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)
2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.’ You may wonder, ‘How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?’ If the prophet predicts something in the LORD’s name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)
Infidels and Gays Should Die
So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other’s bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God’s death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)
Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle
For the LORD had said to Moses, ‘Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.’ (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)
Kill People for Working on the Sabbath
The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: ‘Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.’ (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)
2) God’s Murders for Stupid Reasons:
Kill Brats
From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. “Go up baldhead,” they shouted, “go up baldhead!” The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)
God Kills the Curious
And he smote of the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of Jehovah, he smote of the people seventy men, `and’ fifty thousand men; and the people mourned, because Jehovah had smitten the people with a great slaughter. And the men of Beth-shemesh said, Who is able to stand before Jehovah, this holy God? and to whom shall he go up from us? (1Samuel 6:19-20 ASV)
Killed by a Lion
Meanwhile, the LORD instructed one of the group of prophets to say to another man, “Strike me!” But the man refused to strike the prophet. Then the prophet told him, “Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me.” And sure enough, when he had gone, a lion attacked and killed him. (1 Kings 20:35-36 NLT)
Killing the Good Samaritan
The ark of God was placed on a new cart and taken away from the house of Abinadab on the hill. Uzzah and Ahio, sons of Abinadab guided the cart, with Ahio walking before it, while David and all the Israelites made merry before the Lord with all their strength, with singing and with citharas, harps, tambourines, sistrums, and cymbals.
When they came to the threshing floor of Nodan, Uzzah reached out his hand to the ark of God to steady it, for the oxen were making it tip. But the Lord was angry with Uzzah; God struck him on that spot, and he died there before God. (2 Samuel 6:3-7 NAB)
February 26th, 2007 at 11:46 pm3) Murdering Children
Kill Sons of Sinners
Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)
God Will Kill Children
The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived. Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you. It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone. I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre. But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered.” O LORD, what should I request for your people? I will ask for wombs that don’t give birth and breasts that give no milk. The LORD says, “All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them. I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions. I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels. The people of Israel are stricken. Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit. And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children.” (Hosea 9:11-16 NLT)
Kill Men, Women, and Children
“Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, “Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple.” So they began by killing the seventy leaders. “Defile the Temple!” the LORD commanded. “Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!” So they went throughout the city and did as they were told.” (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)
God Kills all the First Born of Egypt
And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed. Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died. (Exodus 12:29-30 NLT)
Kill Old Men and Young Women
“You are my battle-ax and sword,” says the LORD. “With you I will shatter nations and destroy many kingdoms. With you I will shatter armies, destroying the horse and rider, the chariot and charioteer. With you I will shatter men and women, old people and children, young men and maidens. With you I will shatter shepherds and flocks, farmers and oxen, captains and rulers. “As you watch, I will repay Babylon and the people of Babylonia for all the wrong they have done to my people in Jerusalem,” says the LORD. “Look, O mighty mountain, destroyer of the earth! I am your enemy,” says the LORD. “I will raise my fist against you, to roll you down from the heights. When I am finished, you will be nothing but a heap of rubble. You will be desolate forever. Even your stones will never again be used for building. You will be completely wiped out,” says the LORD. (Jeremiah 51:20-26)
(Note that after God promises the Israelites a victory against Babylon, the Israelites actually get their butts kicked by them in the next chapter. So much for an all-knowing and all-powerful God.)
God Will Kill the Children of Sinners
If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins. I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted. (Leviticus 26:21-22 NLT)
More Rape and Baby Killing
Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)
February 26th, 2007 at 11:46 pm4) Miscellaneous Murders
More of Samson’s Murders
(The Lord saves Sampson from standing trial for 30 murders and arson by allowing him to kill 1000 more men.) When he reached Lehi, and the Philistines came shouting to meet him, the spirit of the Lord came upon him: the ropes around his arms become as flax that is consumed by fire and the bonds melted away from his hands. Near him was the fresh jawbone of an ass; he reached out, grasped it, and with it killed a thousand men. (Judges 15:14-15 NAB)
Peter Kills Two People
There was also a man named Ananias who, with his wife, Sapphira, sold some property. He brought part of the money to the apostles, but he claimed it was the full amount. His wife had agreed to this deception. Then Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart? You lied to the Holy Spirit, and you kept some of the money for yourself. The property was yours to sell or not sell, as you wished. And after selling it, the money was yours to give away. How could you do a thing like this? You weren’t lying to us but to God.” As soon as Ananias heard these words, he fell to the floor and died. Everyone who heard about it was terrified. Then some young men wrapped him in a sheet and took him out and buried him. About three hours later his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. Peter asked her, “Was this the price you and your husband received for your land?” “Yes,” she replied, “that was the price.” And Peter said, “How could the two of you even think of doing a thing like this – conspiring together to test the Spirit of the Lord? Just outside that door are the young men who buried your husband, and they will carry you out, too.” Instantly, she fell to the floor and died. When the young men came in and saw that she was dead, they carried her out and buried her beside her husband. Great fear gripped the entire church and all others who heard what had happened. (Acts 5:1-11 NLT)
Mass Murder
This is what the Lord of hosts has to say: ‘I will punish what Amalek did to Israel when he barred his way as he was coming up from Egypt. Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban. Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses.’ (1 Samuel 15:2-3 NAB)
You Have to Kill
Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood. (Jeremiah 48:10 NAB)
The Danites Kill the Next Town
But the territory of the Danites was too small for them; so the Danites marched up and attacked Leshem, which they captured and put to the sword. Once they had taken possession of Lesham, they renamed the settlement after their ancestor Dan. (Joshua 19:47 NAB)
God Kills Some More
Then the LORD said to me, “Even if Moses and Samuel stood before me pleading for these people, I wouldn’t help them. Away with them! Get them out of my sight! And if they say to you, ‘But where can we go?’ tell them, ‘This is what the LORD says: Those who are destined for death, to death; those who are destined for war, to war; those who are destined for famine, to famine; those who are destined for captivity, to captivity.’ “I will send four kinds of destroyers against them,” says the LORD. “I will send the sword to kill, the dogs to drag away, the vultures to devour, and the wild animals to finish up what is left. Because of the wicked things Manasseh son of Hezekiah, king of Judah, did in Jerusalem, I will make my people an object of horror to all the kingdoms of the earth.” (Jeremiah 15:1-4 NLT)
God Promises More Killing
I will make Mount Seir utterly desolate, killing off all who try to escape and any who return. I will fill your mountains with the dead. Your hills, your valleys, and your streams will be filled with people slaughtered by the sword. I will make you desolate forever. Your cities will never be rebuilt. Then you will know that I am the LORD. (Ezekiel 35:7-9 NLT)
The Angel of Death
My angel will go before you and bring you to the Amorites, Hittites, Perizzites, Canaanites, Hivites, and Jebusites; and I will wipe them out. (Exodus 23:23 NAB)
Destruction of Ai
Then the LORD said to Joshua, “Do not be afraid or discouraged. Take the entire army and attack Ai, for I have given to you the king of Ai, his people, his city, and his land. You will destroy them as you destroyed Jericho and its king. But this time you may keep the captured goods and the cattle for yourselves. Set an ambush behind the city.” So Joshua and the army of Israel set out to attack Ai. Joshua chose thirty thousand fighting men and sent them out at night with these orders: “Hide in ambush close behind the city and be ready for action. When our main army attacks, the men of Ai will come out to fight as they did before, and we will run away from them. We will let them chase us until they have all left the city. For they will say, ‘The Israelites are running away from us as they did before.’ Then you will jump up from your ambush and take possession of the city, for the LORD your God will give it to you. Set the city on fire, as the LORD has commanded. You have your orders.” So they left that night and lay in ambush between Bethel and the west side of Ai. But Joshua remained among the people in the camp that night.
Early the next morning Joshua roused his men and started toward Ai, accompanied by the leaders of Israel. They camped on the north side of Ai, with a valley between them and the city. That night Joshua sent five thousand men to lie in ambush between Bethel and Ai, on the west side of the city. So they stationed the main army north of the city and the ambush west of the city. Joshua himself spent that night in the valley. When the king of Ai saw the Israelites across the valley, he and all his army hurriedly went out early the next morning and attacked the Israelites at a place overlooking the Jordan Valley. But he didn’t realize there was an ambush behind the city. Joshua and the Israelite army fled toward the wilderness as though they were badly beaten, and all the men in the city were called out to chase after them. In this way, they were lured away from the city. There was not a man left in Ai or Bethel who did not chase after the Israelites, and the city was left wide open.
Then the LORD said to Joshua, “Point your spear toward Ai, for I will give you the city.” Joshua did as he was commanded. As soon as Joshua gave the signal, the men in ambush jumped up and poured into the city. They quickly captured it and set it on fire. When the men of Ai looked behind them, smoke from the city was filling the sky, and they had nowhere to go. For the Israelites who had fled in the direction of the wilderness now turned on their pursuers. When Joshua and the other Israelites saw that the ambush had succeeded and that smoke was rising from the city, they turned and attacked the men of Ai. Then the Israelites who were inside the city came out and started killing the enemy from the rear. So the men of Ai were caught in a trap, and all of them died. Not a single person survived or escaped. Only the king of Ai was taken alive and brought to Joshua.
When the Israelite army finished killing all the men outside the city, they went back and finished off everyone inside. So the entire population of Ai was wiped out that day – twelve thousand in all. For Joshua kept holding out his spear until everyone who had lived in Ai was completely destroyed. Only the cattle and the treasures of the city were not destroyed, for the Israelites kept these for themselves, as the LORD had commanded Joshua. So Ai became a permanent mound of ruins, desolate to this very day. Joshua hung the king of Ai on a tree and left him there until evening. At sunset the Israelites took down the body and threw it in front of the city gate. They piled a great heap of stones over him that can still be seen today. (Joshua 8:1-29 NLT)
Killing at Jericho
When the people heard the sound of the horns, they shouted as loud as they could. Suddenly, the walls of Jericho collapsed, and the Israelites charged straight into the city from every side and captured it. They completely destroyed everything in it – men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep, donkeys – everything. (Joshua 6:20-21 NLT)
God Kills an Extended Family
“You have done more evil than all who lived before you. You have made other gods and have made me furious with your gold calves. And since you have turned your back on me, I will bring disaster on your dynasty and kill all your sons, slave or free alike. I will burn up your royal dynasty as one burns up trash until it is all gone. I, the LORD, vow that the members of your family who die in the city will be eaten by dogs, and those who die in the field will be eaten by vultures.’” Then Ahijah said to Jeroboam’s wife, “Go on home, and when you enter the city, the child will die. All Israel will mourn for him and bury him. He is the only member of your family who will have a proper burial, for this child is the only good thing that the LORD, the God of Israel, sees in the entire family of Jeroboam. And the LORD will raise up a king over Israel who will destroy the family of Jeroboam. This will happen today, even now! Then the LORD will shake Israel like a reed whipped about in a stream. He will uproot the people of Israel from this good land that he gave their ancestors and will scatter them beyond the Euphrates River, for they have angered the LORD by worshiping Asherah poles. He will abandon Israel because Jeroboam sinned and made all of Israel sin along with him.” (1 Kings 14:9-16 NLT)
Mass Murder
The men of Israel withdrew through the territory of the Benjaminites, putting to the sword the inhabitants of the city, the livestock, and all they chanced upon. Moreover they destroyed by fire all the cities they came upon. (Judges 20:48 NAB)
The Angel of Death
That night the angel of the Lord went forth and struck down one hundred and eighty five thousand men in the Assyrian camp. Early the next morning, there they were, all the corpuses of the dead. (2 Kings 19:35 NAB)
Kill Your Neighbors
(Moses) stood at the entrance to the camp and shouted, “All of you who are on the LORD’s side, come over here and join me.” And all the Levites came. He told them, “This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: Strap on your swords! Go back and forth from one end of the camp to the other, killing even your brothers, friends, and neighbors.” The Levites obeyed Moses, and about three thousand people died that day. Then Moses told the Levites, “Today you have been ordained for the service of the LORD, for you obeyed him even though it meant killing your own sons and brothers. Because of this, he will now give you a great blessing.” (Exodus 32:26-29 NLT)
Kill the Family of Sinners
And Joshua said to Achan, My son, give, I pray thee, glory to the LORD God of Israel, and make confession to him; and tell me now what thou hast done, hide it not from me. And Achan answered Joshua, and said, Indeed I have sinned against the LORD God of Israel, and thus and thus have I done. When I saw among the spoils a goodly Babylonish garment, and two hundred shekels of silver, and a wedge of gold of fifty shekels weight, then I coveted them, and took them, and behold, they are hid in the earth in the midst of my tent, and the silver under it.” [Note that the sin is not looting, but failing to give the loot to the treasury of the Lord.] “So Joshua sent messengers, and they ran to the tent, and behold, it was hid in his tent, and the silver under it. And they took them from the midst of the tent, and brought them to Joshua, and to all the children of Israel, and laid them out before the LORD. And Joshua, and all Israel with him, took Achan the son of Zerah, and the silver, and the garment, and the wedge of gold, and his sons, and his daughters, and his oxen, and his asses, and his sheep, and his tent, and all that he had: and they brought them to the valley of Achor. And Joshua said, why hast thou troubled us? the LORD shall trouble thee this day. And all Israel stoned him with stones, and burned them with fire, after they had stoned them with stones. And they raised over him a great heap of stones to this day. So the LORD turned from the fierceness of his anger: wherefore the name of that place was called the valley of Achor to this day. (Joshua 7:19-26 Webster’s Bible)
Kill Followers of Other Religions
While the Israelites were camped at Acacia, some of the men defiled themselves by sleeping with the local Moabite women. These women invited them to attend sacrifices to their gods, and soon the Israelites were feasting with them and worshiping the gods of Moab. Before long Israel was joining in the worship of Baal of Peor, causing the LORD’s anger to blaze against his people. The LORD issued the following command to Moses: “Seize all the ringleaders and execute them before the LORD in broad daylight, so his fierce anger will turn away from the people of Israel.” So Moses ordered Israel’s judges to execute everyone who had joined in worshiping Baal of Peor. Just then one of the Israelite men brought a Midianite woman into the camp, right before the eyes of Moses and all the people, as they were weeping at the entrance of the Tabernacle. When Phinehas son of Eleazar and grandson of Aaron the priest saw this, he jumped up and left the assembly. Then he took a spear and rushed after the man into his tent. Phinehas thrust the spear all the way through the man’s body and into the woman’s stomach. So the plague against the Israelites was stopped, but not before 24,000 people had died. (Numbers 25:1-9 NLT)
Murder
At the customary time for offering the evening sacrifice, Elijah the prophet walked up to the altar and prayed, “O LORD, God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, prove today that you are God in Israel and that I am your servant. Prove that I have done all this at your command. O LORD, answer me! Answer me so these people will know that you, O LORD, are God and that you have brought them back to yourself.” Immediately the fire of the LORD flashed down from heaven and burned up the young bull, the wood, the stones, and the dust. It even licked up all the water in the ditch! And when the people saw it, they fell on their faces and cried out, “The LORD is God! The LORD is God!” Then Elijah commanded, “Seize all the prophets of Baal. Don’t let a single one escape!” So the people seized them all, and Elijah took them down to the Kishon Valley and killed them there. (1 Kings 18:36-40 NLT)
Kill All of Babylon
“Go up, my warriors, against the land of Merathaim and against the people of Pekod. Yes, march against Babylon, the land of rebels, a land that I will judge! Pursue, kill, and completely destroy them, as I have commanded you,” says the LORD. “Let the battle cry be heard in the land, a shout of great destruction”. (Jeremiah 50:21-22 NLT)
Micah Kills a Whole Town
Then, with Micah’s idols and his priest, the men of Dan came to the town of Laish, whose people were peaceful and secure. They attacked and killed all the people and burned the town to the ground. There was no one to rescue the residents of the town, for they lived a great distance from Sidon and had no allies nearby. This happened in the valley near Beth-rehob.Then the people of the tribe of Dan rebuilt the town and lived there. They renamed the town Dan after their ancestor, Israel’s son, but it had originally been called Laish. (Judges 18:27-29 NLT) (Note that God approves of this slaughter in verse 6.)
February 26th, 2007 at 11:46 pmVince P., how many Christians follow the teachings of the Bible to the letter? Once you figure that out, apply that to Islam and you will realize it is not a danger.
If you realized that the five pillars were more important than anything else in Islam, then you would also realize that it isn’t a danger.
What is a danger is when people like you single out a single group as different, and thus believe it requires ’special treatment’ compared to any other group. That is fascist.
You in your current state of thinking I find more dangerous than Islamic extremists. Islamic extremists may kill a few people, but we can take action against them, and act in ways to destroy them. People of your thinking are a danger to our democracy, because you would be willing to surrender freedoms in order to maintain only the illusion of security. That is what happened in Germany, that is what happened in Italy, and trends in this country are similar.
I ask you, rather than quoting relentlessly from talking points, go read academic books on the subjects. See what the academic world has to say about Islam, not the right wing pundit world. Not from those looking for a scapegoat, a new enemy to replace the Soviet Union as an enemy that the American people can focus on.
Realize, that those who follow the Muslim faith are human, just like you and me. On that plane, that of humanity, any difference of religion or lack there of is eliminated. In essence, we are all, irrevocably, the same.
February 26th, 2007 at 11:50 pmTabari IX:113 “Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur’an.”
Tabari I:280 “Allah said, ‘It is My obligation to make Eve bleed once every month as she made this tree bleed. I must also make Eve stupid, although I created her intelligent.’ Because Allah afflicted Eve, all of the women of this world menstruate and are stupid.”
Qur’an 4:3 “If you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with orphans, marry women of your choice who seem good to you, two or three or four; but if you fear that you shall not be able to do justice (to so many), then only one, or (a slave) that you possess, that will be more suitable. And give the women their dower as a free gift; but if they, of their own good pleasure, remit any part of it to you, eat it with enjoyment, take it with right good cheer and absorb it (in your wealth).”
Qur’an 4:11 “Allah directs you in regard of your Children’s (inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females…. These are settled portions ordained by Allah.”
Bukhari:V1B22N28 “The Prophet said: ‘I was shown the Hell Fire and the majority of its dwellers were women who are disbelievers or ungrateful.’ When asked what they were ungrateful for, the Prophet answered, ‘All the favors done for them by their husbands.’”
Muslim:B1N142 “‘O womenfolk, you should ask for forgiveness for I saw you in bulk amongst the dwellers of Hell.’ A wise lady said: Why is it, Allah’s Apostle, that women comprise the bulk of the inhabitants of Hell? The Prophet observed: ‘You curse too much and are ungrateful to your spouses. You lack common sense, fail in religion and rob the wisdom of the wise.’ Upon this the woman remarked: What is wrong with our common sense? The Prophet replied, ‘Your lack of common sense can be determined from the fact that the evidence of two women is equal to one man. That is a proof.’”
Qur’an 4:43 “Believers, approach not prayers with a mind befogged or intoxicated until you understand what you utter. Nor when you are polluted, until after you have bathed. If you are ill, or on a journey, or come from answering the call of nature, or you have touched a woman, and you find no water, then take for yourselves clean dirt, and rub your faces and hands. Lo! Allah is Benign, Forgiving.” [The Qur'an claims women are unclean and polluted—worse than dirt.]
Bukhari:V4B55N547 “The Prophet said, ‘But for the Israelis, meat would not decay, and if it were not for Eve, wives would never betray their husbands.’”
Qur’an 33:59 “Prophet! Tell your wives and daughters and all Muslim women to draw cloaks and veils all over their bodies (screening themselves completely except for one or two eyes to see the way). That will be better.”
Qur’an 4:15 “If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death [by starvation] claims them.”
Bukhari:V4B52N143
V5B59N523 “When we reached Khaybar, Muhammad said that Allah had enabled him to conquer them. It was then that the beauty of Safiyah was described to him. Her husband had been killed, so Allah’s Apostle selected her for himself. He took her along with him till we reached a place called Sad where her menses were over and he took her for his wife, consummating his marriage to her, and forcing her to wear the veil.’”
Bukhari:V5B59N524 “The Muslims said among themselves, ‘Will Safiyah be one of the Prophet’s wives or just a lady captive and one of his possessions?’”
Ishaq:593 “From the captives of Hunayn, Allah’s Messenger gave [his son-in-law] Ali a slave girl called Baytab and he gave [future Caliph] Uthman a slave girl called Zaynab and [future Caliph] Umar another.”
Bukhari:V3B48N826 “The Prophet said, ‘Isn’t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?’ The women said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘This is because of the deficiency of a woman’s mind.’”
Ishaq:584 “Tell the men with you who have wives: never trust a woman.”
Ishaq:185 “In hell I saw women hanging by their breasts. They had fathered bastards.”
Qur’an 24:31 “Say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty except what (must) appear; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display them except to their husbands…”
Qur’an 24:34 “Force not your slave-girls to whoredom (prostitution) if they desire chastity, that you may seek enjoyment of this life. [And here's the freedom-to-pimp card:] But if anyone forces them, then after such compulsion, Allah is oft-forgiving.”
Ishaq:469 “The Apostle said, ‘Every wailing woman lies except those who wept for Sa’d.’”
Tabari VIII:62
Ishaq:496 “Ali [Muhammad's adopted son, son-in-law, and future Caliph] said, ‘Prophet, women are plentiful. You can get a replacement, easily changing one for another.’”
Ishaq:496 “Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.’ So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, ‘Tell the Apostle the truth.’”
Qur’an 24:1 “(This is) a surah which We have revealed and made obligatory and in which We have revealed clear communications that you may be mindful. For the woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication, flog each of them with a hundred stripes. Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah. And let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.”
Qur’an 24:6 “And for those who launch a charge against their wives, accusing them, but have no witnesses or evidence, except themselves; let the testimony of one of them be four testimonies, (swearing four times) by Allah that he is the one speaking the truth.”
February 26th, 2007 at 11:52 pmAshen: Open your eyes. There’s war from one end of the Muslims lands to the other. Women are slaves in thier houses. Minorities are treated are slaves if they are allowed to be there at all.
Muslims in Europe are hostile and alienated.
Thier book is one long hate letter to the world and they believe in it with way more passion and devotion than Christians. And anyway , the Bible doesn’t command anyone to kill. I dont care what verse you think you find.. no one today would accept it as a command and no one is taught that is Church.
Here is waht they teach in Mosques in the UK… Compare what the Imam’s say to the verses I posted above.
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=EA0270E133DC8334
If you can’t see that Islam is dangerous, then i’m sorry, you’re hopelessly deluded.
February 26th, 2007 at 11:55 pmComment by Patrick1 — February 26, 2007 @ 6:50 pm
Right. The PNAC. You need to get a grip on who the real enemy is. They’ve got the wool pulled so far down over your eyes you can’t even tell if it’s virgin wool.
February 26th, 2007 at 11:57 pm#94 Vince P.
You miss my point completely … you miss the point here that everyone makes … you dismiss every counter point as wrong despite evidence because it does not fit what you wish to believe … I didn’t come here with a preconception that Islam was violent or peaceful … I came to this site with no preconception …. once people like you started spouting your drivel against Islam, I thought about it, read about it, and came to the conclusion that Islam was not what you make it to be. If anyone here is deluded, it is you.
Muslims in Europe are hostile and alienated because they are treated as second class citizens.
Not all Muslim women are treated as slaves.
Minorities are not all treated poorly.
If you were to compare it to any other community, you would find the same problems as in Muslim communities.
BTW, the Muslims you are afraid of are just like you; conservative, reactionary, and afraid.
I suggest if you are unwilling to participate in actual discourse and acknowledge the validity of other comments here, you go visit sites run by members of neo-nazis, the kkk, or any other conservative, white supremacist reactionary group. They think just like you do, believe the same anti-Muslim things you do.
February 27th, 2007 at 12:03 amOr check out these videos:
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=9722DB100BEA67E9
Obsession: Radical Islam’s War Against the West
Intro clip for the must see documentary on global terrorism, and the groups hijacking Islam with the aim to kill non-Muslims and Muslims who don’t agree with them. Deals with Saudi, Syrian, Egyptian, and Iranian roles within radical Islamism, and groups like Osama Bin Laden’s al-Qaeda, Lebanese Hezbollah, Palestinian Hamas and Islamic Jihad. Interviews with former PLO terrorist, Palestinian journalists, and the threatened liberal minority and moderate majority within Muslim culture worldwide. Includes events like September 11th, Beslan, London and Madrid bombings, suicide bombings in Israel, Iraq, as well as the historical link between Nazism and the emerging militant Islamism. Ahmadinejad. Khomeini. Hizbullah
Ayaan Hirsi Ali on Real Time w/Bill Maher
Is Islam a religion of peace? Panel members Steven Weber, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, and Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA) discuss terror, religion, and freedom in this clip.
Islam around the world.
A video illustrating some of the conflict hotspots around the world involving Islamists, and some of the countries that have been victim of Islamic Terrorist attacks.
Fatwa against Daniela Santanche
Daniela Santache is under the threat of an islamist fawta for negative comments on islamist veil
Brigitte Gabriel Speaks on Radical Islam
Brigitte Gabriel, a Lebanese journalist who grew up as a Christian in the Middle East, discusses the threat radical Islam poses for the Western world
Muslim Chaplains Caught Deceiving in Public
Footage of a Muslim proselytization event at a public library. The footage shows how two Muslim chaplains practice the Islamically sanctioned deception techniques of taqiyya and kitman on the audience
Islamic Teachings: Cruelty From The Qur’an [by NickGisburne]
Here is the video that got NickGisburne banned. It contains only information about what is in the Quran, from a list that can be found at the link below, along with the references to the actually scripture.
Islamic School update.
February 27th, 2007 at 12:06 amInvestigation into what is being taught to muslim children about non muslims in islamic schools.
The following passage shows that slaves are clearly property to be bought and sold like livestock.
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)
The following passage describes how the Hebrew slaves are to be treated.
If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.’ If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)
Notice how they can get a male Hebrew slave to become a permanent slave by keeping his wife and children hostage until he says he wants to become a permanent slave. What kind of family values are these?
The following passage describes the sickening practice of sex slavery. How can anyone think it is moral to sell your own daughter as a sex slave?
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
So these are the Bible family values! A man can buy as many sex slaves as he wants as long as he feeds them, clothes them, and screws them!
What does the Bible say about beating slaves? It says you can beat both male and female slaves with a rod so hard that as long as they don’t die right away you are cleared of any wrong doing.
When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)
You would think that Jesus and the New Testament would have a different view of slavery, but slavery is still approved of in the New Testament, as the following passages show.
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)
Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)
In the following parable, Jesus clearly approves of beating slaves even if they didn’t know they were doing anything wrong.
The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. “But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given.” (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)
February 27th, 2007 at 12:13 am1) Murder, rape, and pillage at Jabesh-gilead (Judges 21:10-24 NLT)
So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill everyone there, including women and children. “This is what you are to do,” they said. “Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin.” Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan.
The Israelite assembly sent a peace delegation to the little remnant of Benjamin who were living at the rock of Rimmon. Then the men of Benjamin returned to their homes, and the four hundred women of Jabesh-gilead who were spared were given to them as wives. But there were not enough women for all of them. The people felt sorry for Benjamin because the LORD had left this gap in the tribes of Israel. So the Israelite leaders asked, “How can we find wives for the few who remain, since all the women of the tribe of Benjamin are dead? There must be heirs for the survivors so that an entire tribe of Israel will not be lost forever. But we cannot give them our own daughters in marriage because we have sworn with a solemn oath that anyone who does this will fall under God’s curse.”
Then they thought of the annual festival of the LORD held in Shiloh, between Lebonah and Bethel, along the east side of the road that goes from Bethel to Shechem. They told the men of Benjamin who still needed wives, “Go and hide in the vineyards. When the women of Shiloh come out for their dances, rush out from the vineyards, and each of you can take one of them home to be your wife! And when their fathers and brothers come to us in protest, we will tell them, ‘Please be understanding. Let them have your daughters, for we didn’t find enough wives for them when we destroyed Jabesh-gilead. And you are not guilty of breaking the vow since you did not give your daughters in marriage to them.’” So the men of Benjamin did as they were told. They kidnapped the women who took part in the celebration and carried them off to the land of their own inheritance. Then they rebuilt their towns and lived in them. So the assembly of Israel departed by tribes and families, and they returned to their own homes.
Obviously these women were repeatedly raped. These sick bastards killed and raped an entire town and then wanted more virgins, so they hid beside the road to kidnap and rape some more. How can anyone see this as anything but evil?
2) Murder, rape and pillage of the Midianites (Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)
They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings – Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.
Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. “Why have you let all the women live?” he demanded. “These are the very ones who followed Balaam’s advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD’s people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.
Clearly Moses and God approves of rape of virgins.
3) More Murder Rape and Pillage (Deuteronomy 20:10-14)
As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.
What kind of God approves of murder, rape, and slavery?
4) Laws of Rape (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)
If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.
What kind of lunatic would make a rape victim marry her attacker? Answer: God.
5) Death to the Rape Victim (Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)
If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.
It is clear that God doesn’t give a damn about the rape victim. He is only concerned about the violation of another mans “property”.
6) David’s Punishment – Polygamy, Rape, Baby Killing, and God’s “Forgiveness” (2 Samuel 12:11-14 NAB)
Thus says the Lord: ‘I will bring evil upon you out of your own house. I will take your wives [plural] while you live to see it, and will give them to your neighbor. He shall lie with your wives in broad daylight. You have done this deed in secret, but I will bring it about in the presence of all Israel, and with the sun looking down.’
Then David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” Nathan answered David: “The Lord on his part has forgiven your sin: you shall not die. But since you have utterly spurned the Lord by this deed, the child born to you must surely die.” [The child dies seven days later.]
This has got to be one of the sickest quotes of the Bible. God himself brings the completely innocent rape victims to the rapist. What kind of pathetic loser would do something so evil? And then he kills a child! This is sick, really sick!
7) Rape of Female Captives (Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NAB)
“When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive’s garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion.”
Once again God approves of forcible rape.
8) Rape and the Spoils of War (Judges 5:30 NAB)
They must be dividing the spoils they took: there must be a damsel or two for each man, Spoils of dyed cloth as Sisera’s spoil, an ornate shawl or two for me in the spoil. (Judges 5:30 NAB)
9) Sex Slaves (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
10) God Assists Rape and Plunder (Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)
Lo, a day shall come for the Lord when the spoils shall be divided in your midst. And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: the city shall be taken, houses plundered, women ravished; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be removed from the city. (Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)
February 27th, 2007 at 12:13 amAshen: You keep asking me to repeat myself.. Did you happen to read this? I wrote it three hours ago.. I pay homage to the variation of adherence. How many times do I have to say it? You act as if I never have. I’ve said it all the time.. Muslims are people. Islam is an ideology. I have been consistant in what I criticize. I rarely make blanket statements about all Muslims. Islam is extremists, but not all Muslims are. Again.. most of them ignore the unpleasantness but the unpleasantness is there for anyone who wishes to go with it. And again, that unpleasantness are commands that are unique to Islam and not in any other religion.
quote:
And it doesn’t matter how most Muslims behave. What matters is their ideology. Islam contains within it everything a Muslim needs to behave in a barabarious violent way toward Non-Muslims. The fact that any number of Muslims choose to ignore those parts of the ideology doesn’t negate their validity within that faith.
So yes, not every Muslim is a terrorist. but Islam is prone to terrorism uniquely. in that it is the only major religion which commands its believers of all time to kill non-believers. No other religion has those insturctions. And before you start pasting OT verses, remember no matter how bad you think the OT is, the Koran matches it in every respect and even more, so it’s irrelevent to point out something the size of an insect to distract from a super-nova-sized problem
February 27th, 2007 at 12:14 amBible Passages About Ritual Human Sacrifice
Jephthah Burns His Daughter
“At that time the Spirit of the LORD came upon Jephthah, and he went throughout the land of Gilead and Manasseh, including Mizpah in Gilead, and led an army against the Ammonites. And Jephthah made a vow to the LORD. He said, “If you give me victory over the Ammonites, I will give to the LORD the first thing coming out of my house to greet me when I return in triumph. I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering.”
“So Jephthah led his army against the Ammonites, and the LORD gave him victory. He thoroughly defeated the Ammonites from Aroer to an area near Minnith – twenty towns – and as far away as Abel-keramim. Thus Israel subdued the Ammonites. When Jephthah returned home to Mizpah, his daughter – his only child – ran out to meet him, playing on a tambourine and dancing for joy. When he saw her, he tore his clothes in anguish. “My daughter!” he cried out. “My heart is breaking! What a tragedy that you came out to greet me. For I have made a vow to the LORD and cannot take it back.” And she said, “Father, you have made a promise to the LORD. You must do to me what you have promised, for the LORD has given you a great victory over your enemies, the Ammonites. But first let me go up and roam in the hills and weep with my friends for two months, because I will die a virgin.” “You may go,” Jephthah said. And he let her go away for two months. She and her friends went into the hills and wept because she would never have children. When she returned home, her father kept his vow, and she died a virgin. So it has become a custom in Israel for young Israelite women to go away for four days each year to lament the fate of Jephthah’s daughter.” (Judges 11:29-40 NLT)
God Commands Burning Humans
[The Lord speaking] “The one who has stolen what was set apart for destruction will himself be burned with fire, along with everything he has, for he has broken the covenant of the LORD and has done a horrible thing in Israel.” (Joshua 7:15 NLT)
Josiah and Human Sacrifice
At the LORD’s command, a man of God from Judah went to Bethel, and he arrived there just as Jeroboam was approaching the altar to offer a sacrifice. Then at the LORD’s command, he shouted, “O altar, altar! This is what the LORD says: A child named Josiah will be born into the dynasty of David. On you he will sacrifice the priests from the pagan shrines who come here to burn incense, and human bones will be burned on you.” (1 Kings 13:1-2 NLT)
He [Josiah] executed the priests of the pagan shrines on their own altars, and he burned human bones on the altars to desecrate them. Finally, he returned to Jerusalem. King Josiah then issued this order to all the people: “You must celebrate the Passover to the LORD your God, as it is written in the Book of the Covenant.” There had not been a Passover celebration like that since the time when the judges ruled in Israel, throughout all the years of the kings of Israel and Judah. This Passover was celebrated to the LORD in Jerusalem during the eighteenth year of King Josiah’s reign. Josiah also exterminated the mediums and psychics, the household gods, and every other kind of idol worship, both in Jerusalem and throughout the land of Judah. He did this in obedience to all the laws written in the scroll that Hilkiah the priest had found in the LORD’s Temple. Never before had there been a king like Josiah, who turned to the LORD with all his heart and soul and strength, obeying all the laws of Moses. And there has never been a king like him since. (2 Kings 23:20-25 NLT)
uman Sacrifice
Chastised a little, they shall be greatly blessed, because God tried them and found them worthy of himself. As gold in the furnace, he proved them, and as sacrificial offerings he took them to himself. In the time of their visitation they shall shine, and shall dart about as sparks through stubble; (Wisdom 3:5-7 NAB The Book of The Wisdom of Solomon is mostly in Catholic versions of the Bible.)
Child Sacrifice
And this became a hidden trap for mankind, because men, in bondage to misfortune or to royal authority, bestowed on objects of stone or wood the name that ought not to be shared. Afterward it was not enough for them to err about the knowledge of God, but they live in great strife due to ignorance, and they call such great evils peace. For whether they kill children in their initiations, or celebrate secret mysteries, or hold frenzied revels with strange customs… (Wisdom 14:21-23 RSV) The Book of The Wisdom of Solomon is mostly in Catholic versions of the Bible. This passage condemns human sacrifice but acknowledges that it did happen by early God worshipers.
Humans are Fuel for Fire
As for you, son of man, prophesy: Thus says the Lord GOD against the Ammonites and their insults: A sword, a sword is drawn for slaughter, burnished to consume and to flash lightning, because you planned with false visions and lying divinations to lay it on the necks of depraved and wicked men whose day has come when their crimes are at an end. Return it to its sheath! In the place where you were created, in the land of your origin, I will judge you. I will pour out my indignation upon you, breathing my fiery wrath upon you, I will hand you over to ravaging men, artisans of destruction. You shall be fuel for the fire, your blood shall flow throughout the land. You shall not be remembered, for I, the LORD, have spoken. (Ezekiel 21:33-37 NAB)
Burn Nonbelievers
“Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. “The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.” (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)
So the next time some Christian tells you about the “love of God”, show them this page and ask them “Why does God want me to burn animals and humans?”
February 27th, 2007 at 12:15 amGeez Vince, sorry, but it looks like Christianity and Judaism might have a more bloody book. I suggest you read something other than stormfront, dum c*nt.
February 27th, 2007 at 12:18 amFormer Sultan Ali El-Shariff comments on Islam and Sudan:
“Today Islam is responsible for almost all of the human sufferings from war, persecution, and poverty, particularly in the country of Sudan.
“Since the 1983 start of the civil war in the southern Sudan more than 4 million people have been displaced, and an estimated over 2 million have been killed because Islam has declared the Holy War (Jihad) (Qur’an 9:5) against the non-Muslim black indigenous people. Islam is responsible for more than 100,000 children either killed or sold as slaves in Muslim homes. Islam is responsible for raping and kidnapping more than 50,000 women during the war (Qur’an 4:3). Islam is responsible for cutting hands and feet of hundreds of innocent people because Islamic laws were applied; bringing shame and infirmity to many families for the rest of their lives. Islam is responsible of abusing millions of women every day through beating, atrocious treatment and emotional deprivation because of the Islamic teaching (Qur’an 4:34).
“It is a shame for any African American to embrace Islam which makes them a participant in these disgraceful acts. It is a shame to embrace Islam to enforce the practice of slavery, abuse of women and children and to humiliate human kind through persecution, poverty and destruction. Unfortunately, Islam always has two faces. The Islamic missionaries always present the peaceful, respectful and the nice face of Islam. The fact is, there is a real violent face of Islam that Muslims in North America try to hide. It is a shame for anyone who embraces Islam without thinking, asking questions or reading about the true face of Islam. Islam is responsible today for the destruction of lives and cultures. Sudan is a vivid example. Why would you want to be a Muslim and participate in their wicked ways?”
February 27th, 2007 at 12:21 amvaliant: you’re so stupid. the reason why Islam is a threat is because THE PEOPLE WHO ARE ALIVE TODAY ARE COMMANDED BY ITS HOLY BOOKS TO KILL YOU AND THEY BELIEVE IT.
That does not describe Christians or Jews. So you might think you have a point, but you really dont , you look like a fool trying to make people think that anyone takes any of those bible quotes as commands to be carried out today. No one takes any of that to be commands, and no one taught that they are. You know nothing about the bible or what christians or jews think. And you know even less about Islam. Why you think anyone should be interested in what you have to say seeing how ignorant and hateful you are is a mystery.
February 27th, 2007 at 12:27 amVince P.
No religion is in itself more susceptible to terrorism. If there are poor desperate people who have no other means, then they are going to revert to violence, and likely make a religious reason to excuse their actions and not have to fear divine retribution.
There is a difference between scripture and ideology. The ideology of Islamic Fundamentalists follow scripture to the letter, that is what their ‘ideology’ is based upon, the same as Christian Fundamentalists following the Bible to the word.
Not all Christians follow the Bible to the letter, the same goes for Islam. For most Christians the important laws are the 10 commandments, just as Islam has the Five Pillars. Islamic Fundamentalist ideology does not define the ideology of all Muslims, just as Christian Fundamentalist ideology does not define the ideology of all Christians.
Christianity is just as prone to terrorism, in fact, Irish Catholics developed and perfected the tactic.
It is not religion that causes a group of people to be prone to terrorism, it is level of poverty. If a people becomes so impoverished, and so oppressed, then they will react, and terrorism at this point is the most effective means towards the end of attacking those holding them in poverty.
For the Irish, it was the English, through their policies who kept them down in the gutter. The Irish used terrorism to combat English dominion.
The Muslim world is in a similar situation, but it is more massive and complicated, and different from anything our world has ever seen, therefore difficult to understand. In short, they are the victims of our economy which requires cheap resources, namely oil, which the Islamic world happens to be sitting on. Our economic policies hold them in perpetual poverty so we may have excessive wealth, they understand this, so they strike at it since it is their oppressor. At the most basic level it does not matter what religion they are and what we are. We are holding them down, and they are reacting.
If we traded places and we were the ones impoverished, I can guarantee you we would be using the same tactics they are and would come up with every religious excuse so we would not have to fear divine retribution.
February 27th, 2007 at 12:32 amvaliant: you’re so stupid. the reason why Islam is a threat is because THE PEOPLE WHO ARE ALIVE TODAY ARE COMMANDED BY ITS HOLY BOOKS TO KILL YOU AND THEY BELIEVE IT. Comment by Vince P — February 27, 2007 @ 12:27 am
I suggest you re-read the passages I post, and remind yourself of how many Islamic people have been killed in recent years by Christians and Jews and vice-versa.
You’re a delusional c*nt.
February 27th, 2007 at 12:33 am#101 Comment by ValiantVenusGrewFromUranus — February 27, 2007
I think I know why the bible is so popular in the US. If you look at our popular movies, they are filled with violence and sex. Same thing with the bible, violence and sex. People don’t know if they want to kill the other person, or get to “know them”. Crazy stuff.
February 27th, 2007 at 12:34 amI think I know why the bible is so popular in the US. If you look at our popular movies, they are filled with violence and sex. Same thing with the bible, violence and sex. People don’t know if they want to kill the other person, or get to “know themâ€. Crazy stuff.
Comment by AshenShard — February 27, 2007 @ 12:34 am
Exactly, that’s why you have Vince, a violent, promiscuous freak that thinks he’s moral.
February 27th, 2007 at 12:36 amHey Vince, here’s why Israel feels like it can Genocide at will.
Exterminate 7 Nations
You must destroy all the nations the LORD your God hands over to you. Show them no mercy and do not worship their gods. If you do, they will trap you. Perhaps you will think to yourselves, ‘How can we ever conquer these nations that are so much more powerful than we are?’ But don’t be afraid of them! Just remember what the LORD your God did to Pharaoh and to all the land of Egypt. Remember the great terrors the LORD your God sent against them. You saw it all with your own eyes! And remember the miraculous signs and wonders, and the amazing power he used when he brought you out of Egypt. The LORD your God will use this same power against the people you fear. And then the LORD your God will send hornets to drive out the few survivors still hiding from you! “No, do not be afraid of those nations, for the LORD your God is among you, and he is a great and awesome God. The LORD your God will drive those nations out ahead of you little by little. You will not clear them away all at once, for if you did, the wild animals would multiply too quickly for you. But the LORD your God will hand them over to you. He will throw them into complete confusion until they are destroyed. He will put their kings in your power, and you will erase their names from the face of the earth. No one will be able to stand against you, and you will destroy them all. (Deuteronomy 7:16-24 NLT)
February 27th, 2007 at 12:38 amAshen: here is a map showing the location of attacks done in the name of Islam since 2003.
http://vincep312.home.comcast.net/attacksjan2007.jpg
For your assertion of equivilence, please show comparable data of attacks done in other religions name for the same time period.
You’re a historian, so I’m sure you can find this data easily.
February 27th, 2007 at 12:38 amoh now the progressive is gay bashing me because I insult Islam.
February 27th, 2007 at 12:39 amMore Israeli Genocide spelled out as a glorious thing.
Kill Everyone in 7 Nations
When the LORD your God brings you into the land you are about to enter and occupy, he will clear away many nations ahead of you: the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites. These seven nations are all more powerful than you. When the LORD your God hands these nations over to you and you conquer them, you must completely destroy them. Make no treaties with them and show them no mercy. Do not intermarry with them, and don’t let your daughters and sons marry their sons and daughters. They will lead your young people away from me to worship other gods. Then the anger of the LORD will burn against you, and he will destroy you. (Deuteronomy 7:1-4 NLT)
February 27th, 2007 at 12:41 amoh now the progressive is gay bashing me because I insult Islam.
Comment by Vince P — February 27, 2007 @ 12:39 am
Who’s gay bashing you? You think you’re a promiscuous slut because you’re gay? How homophobic of you!
February 27th, 2007 at 12:42 amFor your assertion of equivilence, please show comparable data of attacks done in other religions name for the same time period.
You’re a historian, so I’m sure you can find this data easily.
Comment by Vince P — February 27, 2007 @ 12:38 am
How does that compare to 4,411 Palestinians killed by Israel since 2000, or 31,267 injured. Then we have the several hundred Lebanese dead. Plus the 600,000 Dead Iraqis. We can add up the dead Afghanis, etc.
Sorry Vince, but you’re a dum c*nt.
February 27th, 2007 at 12:45 amAccording to our open minded friends here (open minded to everything except reality) there is nothing to see here:
The general tendency of Westerners is to view global jihad as a foreign policy issue. But today it is clear that it is also a domestic policy issue.
Over the weekend The Sunday Telegraph reported that a recently circulated British intelligence report warned: “The terrorist threat facing Britain from home-grown al-Qaida agents is higher than at any time since the September 11 attacks in 2001.”
After foiling the jihadist plot to down US-bound British passenger aircraft last summer, MI5 director Eliza Manningham-Buller claimed that there are some 1,600 British Muslims actively involved in plotting attacks against Britain. According to the intelligence report cited in the Sunday Telegraph, today that number exceeds 2,000.
As one senior British political source told the newspaper, “The Security Services have constantly warned that the task of countering Islamic terrorism is a daunting one. There will be more attacks in Britain.”
It is not surprising that Britain faces the specter of mass attacks carried out by its own citizens in the name of Allah. Repeated exposes of the goings-on in British mosques and in supposedly “moderate” British Muslim communal organizations have shown unequivocally that they are being used as indoctrination centers for jihad.
A poll published last month by Britain’s Policy Exchange think tank bore out the poisonous impact this indoctrination has had on young Muslims in the country. Thirty-seven percent of British Muslims between the ages of 16-24 would rather live under Shari’a law than under British Common Law; 36 percent think Muslims should be killed if they convert to another religion; 13 percent admire al-Qaida and similar terror groups; and a whopping 74 percent of young British Muslims believe women should wear veils.
WHILE IT is true that in the US the danger of home-grown jihadists to national security is lower than it is in Britain, it is also true that there is a growing phenomenon of jihadist violence being perpetrated by Muslim men against American civilians in the name of jihad.
Ten days ago, the Investors Business Daily published an editorial enumerating a partial list of acts of terrorism carried out by Muslim men against their fellow Americans since the September 11 attacks. Most recently, Sulejman Talovic entered a shopping mall in Salt Lake City, murdered five and wounded four unsuspecting shoppers before being killed by an off-duty police officer.
As was the case when Derrick Shareef, another Muslim male, was arrested in early December for plotting to carry out a similar attack at a shopping mall in Illinois just before Christmas, the media and the law enforcement agencies covering the Salt Lake City massacre have made light of the fact that the perpetrator was a Muslim.
While Talovic is dead and so cannot explain his motives to authorities, Shareef was arrested after telling an FBI informant of his plans to murder Jews specifically and Americans in particular for Allah. As Shareef told the informant, “I swear by Allah man, I’m down for it too. I’m down for the cause. I’m down to live for the cause and die for the cause, man.”
SHAREEF’S protestations of jihadist ardor made little impression on either federal authorities or the media. Upon announcing Shareef’s arrest, US Federal Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald insisted that he was acting on his own and that he had no outside inspiration for his decision to commit mass murder for Allah. As was the case with Talovic and with Naveed Afzal Haq, who murdered one woman and wounded five during his shooting rampage at the Seattle Jewish Federation last July, the media and federal authorities have hushed up and failed to investigate the jihadist motives for the Illinois attacker or link him to any larger phenomenon.
February 27th, 2007 at 12:46 amcontinued…
The Investors Business Daily editorial ran under the headline “Sudden jihad syndrome.” The term, which has been bandied about by law enforcement officials in both the US and Britain in recent months, encapsulates the view that Muslims can be incited and then move to commit acts of murder in the name of Allah and jihad instantaneously.
The attractiveness of the “sudden jihad syndrome” explanation for violent Islamic crime is clear. By arguing that the jihadists are acting on their own after being mysteriously inspired by no one, law enforcement officials and the media are relieved of the thankless task of investigating mosques, Muslim advocacy groups and Islamic centers, where the jihadist indoctrination is conducted on a daily basis.
IT IS hard to know what to make of this view. Perhaps there is something to it. Perhaps the message of jihad is so strong that young Muslim men can be inspired to shoot pregnant women in office buildings after the notion of murder for Allah enters the transoms of their minds independently of other outside factors – through vapors or spontaneous generation perhaps.
What is clear enough is that since this is the view that is informing policymakers, law enforcement officials and the media in handling a clear trend of jihadist murder, it requires serious empirical study. The obvious place for that research to take place is in the universities.
Unfortunately, there can be little hope that universities in the US or in the West in general will devote any serious consideration to this most important sociological, psychological and national security trend. Far from being willing to study the most central issue of our times, universities are leading the charge in either ignoring it, or apologizing for it.
On February 15, the Iraqi Ambassador to the UN, Hamid Al Bayati, spoke at New York’s Fordham University. During the course of his remarks, Bayati doubted the fact that the Holocaust had occurred. In his words, “I’m not aware of any dictator who used chemical weapons against his own people. Some academics or diplomats would say Hitler used chemical weapons, but I am sure he didn’t use them against his own people – his German people.”
When pressed by law professor Avi Bell on the fact that several hundred thousand German citizens were gassed to death by Nazi Germany, Bayati still refused to take the point.
Fordham University is far from alone in providing a platform for Holocaust deniers. Last Thursday the Dean’s office at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology co-sponsored an event on the Arab-Israel conflict called, “Foreign Policy and Social Justice: A Jewish View, a Muslim View.” The man invited to provide the Jewish view was Dovid Weiss, a member of the crackpot Neturei Karta sect. Weiss rose to prominence when he traveled to Teheran last December to participate in Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s Holocaust denial conference.
While MIT and Fordham were hosting Holocaust deniers in the name of intellectual freedom, their fellow universities were hosting “Israel Apartheid Week.” As part of their efforts to criminalize the Jewish state, Arab and Jewish speakers at “Israel Apartheid Week” events refer to Israel as “1948 Palestine” and show propaganda films portraying IDF soldiers and Israeli civilians in Judea and Samaria as murderers.
The events are generally sponsored by the International Solidarity Movement. In addition to their campus outreach, the ISM sponsors the weekly riots against the security fence in Bil’in and in Hebron, where its protesters throw rocks at IDF soldiers. Given the violent content of their actions in Israel, it should come as no surprise that their events on US campuses also breed violence.
February 27th, 2007 at 12:47 amcontinued…
At an “Israel Apartheid Week” event at City University of New York, after watching a propaganda film, 19-year old Binyamin Rister rose and politely asked the ISM presenters if they supported terrorism. When he received no reply he politely repeated the question. Rather than wait for an answer, CUNY security guards dragged Rister from the room and then repeatedly banged his head against the wall of an elevator and threw him head first down the stairs. Rister’s injuries from the assault by campus security required him to be evacuated by ambulance in a neck brace to the hospital.
In an almost identical case at Georgetown last year, Bill Maniaci a 65-year-old retired Jewish American police officer was brutalized by Georgetown security guards after he asked ISM spokesmen if they supported terrorism. He is currently suing Georgetown for $8 million in damages for the assault. According to Lee Kaplan’s report of the CUNY event in Frontpage Magazine, there were seven witnesses to the unprovoked attack against Rister. He too has filed a multi-million dollar lawsuit against CUNY.
EVEN THOSE propounding the view that jihadist murderers in the US and Britain are inspired to kill after being brought under the spell of the “sudden jihad syndrome” cannot deny that the root of the jihad is ideas. Similarly, it is self-evident that the key to beating the global jihad is victory in the battlefield of ideas. Unfortunately, as the pro-jihadist trend on US and Western campuses, and its impact on idea consumers in law enforcement, the media and policy circles throughout the free world shows, to the extent that those charged with engaging in the battle of ideas are engaged, they fight on the side of the enemy
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?apage=1&cid=1171894524953&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
February 27th, 2007 at 12:47 amVince P wages a war on Islam, and thinks Islam is the only radical.
Vince P, is a dum c*nt.
February 27th, 2007 at 12:49 amValiant: Idiot. The Palestinians started the Oslo War in 2000. They were the offensive party. they deserve everything that has happened to them.
The Palestinians spent the 1990s preparing for jihad instead of building the foundations of a state.
This is obvious to all but jew haters.
February 27th, 2007 at 12:49 amFreak out Vince, can’t tell real danger, from fantasy danger. That could explain why most of his time is split between KKK anti-islamic site and pornography.
The body count from road accidents in developed economies is 390 times higher than the death toll in these countries from international terrorism, says a study appearing in a specialist journal, Injury Prevention. In 2001, as many people died every 26 days on American roads as died in the terrorist attacks of 9/11, it says.
February 27th, 2007 at 12:52 amValiant: Idiot. The Palestinians started the Oslo War in 2000. They were the offensive party. they deserve everything that has happened to them. Comment by Vince P — February 27, 2007 @ 12:49 am
Tell that to the Palestinians fighting for the land they were driven off of by European Jewish immigrants that stole it from them.
The Palestinians spent the 1990s preparing for jihad instead of building the foundations of a state.
This is obvious to all but jew haters.
Comment by Vince P — February 27, 2007 @ 12:49 am
Foundation of a state? Jew haters? Only a Zionist freak says something that stupid Vince. You’re a sicko c*nt.
February 27th, 2007 at 12:54 amHumans are themselves radical, violent, vermin … religion is a manifestation of that.
February 27th, 2007 at 12:54 amHumans are themselves radical, violent, vermin … religion is a manifestation of that. Comment by AshenShard — February 27, 2007 @ 12:54 am
Ah, you can almost smell Vince P roasting over the coals of that burn.
February 27th, 2007 at 12:58 amAshen: please show the attacks done in the name of other religions than Islam since 2003. If there is nothign special about islamic violence, you should have no problems producing the data.
February 27th, 2007 at 12:59 amAshen: please show the attacks done in the name of other religions than Islam since 2003. If there is nothign special about islamic violence, you should have no problems producing the data.
Comment by Vince P — February 27, 2007 @ 12:59 am
So the invasion of Lebanon had nothing to do with Jewish violence? BWAHAHA, you’re a sicko, stupid c*nt.
February 27th, 2007 at 1:01 amI suggest you read this Christian Science Monitor story Vince Putz.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0223/p09s01-coop.html
It’s entitled The myth of Muslim support for terror
February 27th, 2007 at 1:02 amHere are the attacks done in the name of Islam in the past week:
Date / Country / City / Killed / Injured / Description
February 27th, 2007 at 1:05 am2/26/07 Afghanistan Khost 1 7 A policeman is killed when he tries to stop a suicide bomber from entering a station.
2/25/07 Israel Hebron 1 0 An Isreali settler is stabbed to death by Palestinian militants.
2/25/07 Pakistan Kahan 3 0 A woman and two children are killed when Taliban-backed militants fire a rocket into a home.
2/25/07 Iraq Baghdad 19 4 Nineteen people are murdered by Islamic terrorists in various attacks.
2/25/07 Iraq Mosul 24 0 Sectarian factions go on a killing spree, taking down at least two dozen Iraqis.
2/25/07 Iraq Baghdad 42 55 Suicide bombers strike a university, slaughtering at least forty innocents in the reception area.
2/24/07 Iraq Habbaniyah 52 110 Over fifty innocent people are massacred by suicide bombers, who drive through the wall of a mosque on their way to paradise.
2/24/07 Thailand Pattani 1 4 A 28-year-old civilian is gunned down by Muslim militants in front of his home.
2/24/07 Iraq Baghdad 23 33 Multiple Jihad attacks leave about two dozen people dead.
2/24/07 India Habbaniyah 1 0 The Mujahideen gun down a cop.
2/23/07 Thailand Narathiwat 1 0 A 24-year-old man is murdered by Muslim radicals while sitting in a tea shop.
2/23/07 Iraq Baghdad 6 8 A child is among six people killed by Islamic terrorists.
2/23/07 Somalia Mogadishu 9 20 At least three separate attacks by Islamic militias leave nine civilians dead.
2/23/07 Chechnya Gudermes 5 3 Five police officers are killed in a bombing by Jihad fighters.
2/23/07 Philippines Lamitan 1 0 Abu Sayyaf suspected in the murder of a man riding his bicycle.
2/22/07 India Wahipora 1 0 A man is abducted by the Mujahideen, who kill him in captivity.
2/22/07 Iraq Kirkuk 5 0 Five people are kidnapped, tortured and shot to death by sectarian rivals.
2/22/07 Thailand Narathiwat 1 1 A civilian is shot to death in a drive-by shooting by Muslim gunmen.
2/22/07 Pakistan Allah Bux Brohi 2 0 Two girls are hacked to death by their families for premarital sex.
2/22/07 India Damhal Khushipora 1 0 Terrorists shoot a civilian to death.
2/21/07 Thailand Narathiwat 1 0 A 55-year-old Buddhist woman is shot to death by Muslim radicals.
2/21/07 Thailand Narathiwat 1 1 Islamic radicals fire on two brothers, killing one.
2/21/07 Thailand Narathiwat 1 0 Militant Muslims shoot a teacher to death as he is riding to work.
2/21/07 Somalia Mogadishu 2 0 Two men are gunned down by suspected Islamists in separate attacks.
2/21/07 Iraq Baghdad 20 0 Twenty victims of sectarian hatred are found around the capital.
2/21/07 Iraq Najaf 11 38 Sunni terrorists murder eleven people with a suicide bomb blast.
2/21/07 Afghanistan Shindand 1 2 A female Spanish soldier is killed when Islamic radicals explode a mine under her truck.
Ashen: please show the attacks done in the name of other religions than Islam since 2003. Comment by Vince P — February 27, 2007 @ 12:59 am
Should we begin with Christians and Jews doing gay bashing, or attacking abortion clinics?
You’re really an idiot aren’t you, dum c*nt.?
February 27th, 2007 at 1:06 amAnother act of Christian violence Vince.
Pro-Lifer Attacked Outside Vancouver Abortion Clinic – Attack Caught on Video
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2006/apr/06041005.html
Number of Invasion, Assault & Battery, Vandalism, Trespassing, Death Threats, Burglary, Stalking… against abortion clinics in 2003&2004
180
Hate Mail, Harassing Phone Calls, Bomb Threats… in 2003/2004
461
Bombing, Arson, Attempted Bombing or Arson in 2003/2004
2
http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_viol.htm
February 27th, 2007 at 1:18 amWhy Europe Won’t Be Running the 21st Century
American Thinker ^ | February 26, 2007 | Soeren Kern
Posted on 02/26/2007 11:35:48 PM CST by neverdem
For a number of years now the European think tank world has been busy churning out report after report with ever more grandiose proposals for turning the European Union into a global superpower.
One of the more provocative essays in this genre is titled ‘Why Europe Will Run the 21st Century’, which was written by Mark Leonard of the London-based Centre for European Reform. Leonard’s thesis is that Europe will dominate this century because it is based on a new understanding of power, which is embodied in the institutions and norms of the European Union. He argues that the economic, political and social models of the European Union are irresistibly attractive to the countries around it, and as they adopt the European economic and legal framework, they are transformed from the inside out. By contrast, Leonard asserts, even though the United States might be able to use its military power to change regimes, it cannot change societies, and thus it is weak when compared to the ‘transformative’ power of the European Union. This is why Europe will dominate the 21st century, or so Leonard would have us believe.
But is Europe really destined to become a global superpower? A growing body of research says no. Indeed, overwhelming evidence supports the view that contemporary Europe is beset by a mix of problems that is so complex, that apart from dramatic changes in public policy, Europe is headed toward certain decline, not ascendancy.
Demographic Collapse?
Although European elites imagine that their political and social models are so obviously attractive that they will be adopted by the rest of the world, ordinary Europeans don’t seem to think so. In fact, demographic trends suggest that most Europeans don’t even believe in the European ideal in sufficient numbers to want to pass it on to the next generation.
According to the European Commission, the average birth rate for the European Union as a whole is now 1.4 children per woman, which is well below the 2.1 replacement rate. By way of example, the country with lowest fertility rate in the world is Spain, where women have an average of only 1.07 children.
As a result, deaths will start out-numbering births in every member state of the European Union by as early as 2010. But some countries have already reached that point. According to Germany’s Federal Statistics Office, more people died in that country in 2005 than were born. And Germany’s demographic decline is the norm, not the exception in Europe. Indeed, Europe’s population is forecast to decrease by more than 100 million by 2050.
But not only are Europeans declining in number, they are aging as well. According to the US Census Bureau, Europe in 2000 had the highest percentage of people aged 65 and older, and this figure is set to double by 2050.
Economic Uncertainty
Why should Europeans be worried about declining birth rates and aging populations? Economic stability is one reason. A shrinking workforce will find it increasingly difficult to pay for the rising costs of ever more retirees. Indeed, economists predict that European budget deficits will balloon as governments strain to reconcile declining tax bases with millions of elderly people who force up spending on pensions and health care.
But that’s not all. German business leaders, for example, are already worried that the population decline with hurt their country’s competitiveness. German demographers predict that by 2030, their country will have 7 million fewer people of working age than today, but 8.5 million more people of retirement age. So although today there are two workers supporting each retiree, within one generation the ratio will be one-to-one. Many economists say this will spell the end of the European social welfare state as we know it. And because Germany is Europe’s largest economy, it serves as the benchmark for Europe as a whole.
Political Instability
As European countries edge closer to a pension crisis, political stability is another reason why Europeans should be concerned. Germany, for example, was brought to a standstill more than once by citizens protesting the Harz IV reform package. The aim of those reforms was to reduce payouts to unemployed people and to make it more difficult for them to refuse job offers. Although the government held firm, it was also voted out of office. In any case, two years later there is still no sign that the reforms have made Germany’s stagnant economy any more competitive.
Economic frustrations among French and Dutch voters also contributed to their rejecting the European Constitution. Indeed, European citizens seem unwilling to sacrifice their social security benefits on the altar of further European integration. Der Spiegel, the leftwing German news magazine, recently ran a story in which it observed:
Geo-Political Decline
Europe’s demographic situation is in stark contrast to that of the United States, where the population officially passed the 300 million mark in October 2006. The United States is now the third most populous country in the world, behind China and India. Moreover, the United States is growing faster than any other industrialized nation… in fact, it is virtually the only developed country expected to grow this century. All analysts agree that America’s demographic dynamism will have major geo-political implications, especially for Europe.
Some Europeans are beginning to acknowledge this reality. The Paris-based EU Institute for Security Studies predicts that by 2025, Europe will represent only six percent of the world’s population and that its relative share of global wealth and trade will have shrunk. It says that
The False Promise of Immigration
How did the United States, which turned 230 years old in July 2006, get so big so fast? American growth has been fuelled by a combination of economic stability, high birth rates and immigration. Indeed, the United States is the largest immigrant-receiving country in the world. Some 50 percent of the 100 million newest Americans are recent immigrants or their descendents.
Europe, however, is also a magnet for immigration: It will attract up to 1 million newcomers this year. But the European experience with immigration is quite different from that of America. Part of the reason is that many immigrants to Europe end up on welfare, while in the United States, almost all immigrants take one or more entry-level jobs and work their way up the economic ladder. Welfare is simply not the American way.
Islamic Conquest of Europe?
Moreover, most immigrants to the United States are fully integrated into American society by the second generation, regardless of their country of origin. By contrast, most immigrants to Europe are Muslims who refuse to assimilate and instead tend to cluster in marginalized ghettos on the outskirts of cities across the continent.
Here, too, the American experience is quite different. The best available estimates show that there are between 1.9 million and 2.8 million Muslims in the United States. And unlike their European counterparts, American Muslims generally do not feel marginalized or isolated from political participation. According to a 2004 Zogby Poll, American Muslims are more educated and affluent than the national average, with 59 percent of them holding at least an undergraduate college degree. Moreover, the majority of American Muslims are employed in professional fields, with one in three having an income over $75,000 a year.
But back to Europe: The Muslim population of Europe has more than doubled since 1980, and according to some estimates, there are some 25 million Muslims living on the continent today. Demographers predict that this figure may double by 2015, and that the number of Muslims could outnumber non-Muslims in all of Western Europe by mid-century. This prompted Princeton University’s Bernard Lewis to tell the German newspaper Die Welt that ‘Europe will be Islamic by the end of the century.’
This reality is already influencing European foreign policymaking and does not auger well for the future of transatlantic relations. Indeed, many analysts believe that the steady weakening of Europe is the underlying cause for the widespread anti-American and anti-Israel bigotry found among Europe’s elites, many of whom are bowing to pressure from Muslim residents as a way to buy a fake peace with radical Islamists. Says Fouad Ajami, a well-known authority of the Arab world: ‘In ways both intended and subliminal, the escape into anti-Americanism is an attempt at false bonding with the peoples of Islam.’
A European Crisis of Spirit
Some analysts believe that what ails Europe is not primarily a crisis of demography, but rather a crisis of spirit. Michael Novak of the Washington-based American Enterprise Institute (AEI) says that in their blind pursuit of reason, secularism and materialism,
But by removing Judaism and Christianity from European cultural, intellectual and public life, secular Europeans are largely responsible for the lack of confidence ordinary Europeans have in the future. Indeed, the lack of faith not only in tomorrow-but also in God-begets hopelessness. And without hope for the future, one is less likely to want to bring children into the world.
Will Europe Become More Like America?
Most economists agree that demographic decline goes hand in hand with economic decline, and that economic decline, by definition, leads to a loss of influence on the global stage. Although European elites dream about a day when Europe will act as a counterbalance to the United States, the facts imply that Europe’s future will be considerably more modest.
There are solutions to almost every problem facing Europe today. But ironically, those solutions imply that Europe must become more (not less) like the United States in its political, economic and social models.
That is to say, as long as European elites insist on building a Europe whose main purpose is to check American power, Europeans are certain to lose over the long run. But if they can bring their ambitions more into line with reality, both Europeans and Americans are set to win.
February 27th, 2007 at 1:52 amPatrick1; I will fight IF and WHEN they are literally on Malibu beach but NOT before.
Comment by Uncle Ho #23
Uncle,
You make the mistake of attributing an ounce of courage to Patty1…
…that bi*ch is ALL bark and no teeth…
February 27th, 2007 at 9:45 amNothing to see here:
MADRID — A dozen radical Islamists have infiltrated the Spanish army garrison in Madrid’s North African enclave of Ceuta, a magazine claimed on Tuesday.
Interviu magazine, citing what it describes as reports from a now-defunct spy unit, said Spanish military intelligence discovered the infiltration.
The unit had been conducting a special review for several years of the army units in Ceuta and Melilla, cities that have large Muslim populations.
The report came as 29 men – including 15 Moroccans – are on trial in Madrid for the 11 March, 2004 train bombings that left 191 dead and more than 1,800 others wounded in the Spanish capital.
The massacre was blamed on Muslim radicals angry with Spain’s then-conservative government for backing the U.S.-led war in Iraq.
Interviu denounced the “fundamentalist infiltration” found by military intelligence in one Ceuta-based unit that has a “long tradition of native troops and today has a large number of soldiers of the Muslim faith”.
In the case of Ceuta, nearly 40 percent of the troops stationed there are Muslims.
February 27th, 2007 at 9:48 amVince P has been having forced sex with animals…
…but his mother is defenseless against his untoward sexual advances…
…and cannot be blamed…
February 27th, 2007 at 9:50 amwow.. how old are you idiot?
February 27th, 2007 at 10:03 amUh oh! Vince P. aka “The Gay Patiot”
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Page 5 of google search engine pages. Google search words… vince p
Vince, I told you I was going to fuc*king haunt your ass right out of here, now didn’t I?
If you want to know what Vince P. is REALLY ABOUT, go to these links and read some of his posts at these sites.
Frightening indeed. Go ahead, feel free to use the posts to make him contradict himself HERE!
I have spotted MANY contradictions in Vince P. other than what he says here.
A real “two-time” loser our Vince P.
Are you aboard yet Vince?
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http://gaypatriot.net/2007/02/13/the-surge-is-working-al-sadr-flees-baghdad
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Gay Patriot » The Surge is Working — Al Sadr Flees BaghdadComment by Vince P — February 13, 2007 @ 10:35 pm – February 13, 2007. 1: So now you’re attacking the Democrats for not not being quick enough about …
gaypatriot.net/2007/02/13/the-surge-is-working-al-sadr-flees-baghdad – Similar pages
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POST # 38 Reads: On This Link: gaypatriot.net/2007/02/13/the-surge-is-working-al-sadr-flees-baghdad
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Pat: I have so many issues with Bush and the way he has led this country but with the voices from all the over world that tear him down, I feel that enough people have pointed out the errors, so I dont go out of my way to bring them up.
I think it’s funny when you ask a Leftist what they think will happen if we leave Iraq tomrorow and instead of answering they say something “Well Bush said 3 plus 3 equals 5 two years ago.
Past mistakes are in the past, I can’t get one Leftist to look to the future. None of them will say what the consequences will be if we leave. They are so backward looking and regressive.
Bush’s public leadership has been awful, I blame him for the collapse of support. But he is one of the few leaders in this country who realizes the seriousness of the threat we face and I have to support him. I cant expect perfection from human beings. From everything I know about Bush I know he’s a honorable person. THe attack he faces from everyone in Washinton is totally over the top. Lessor men than he wouldn’t be able to stand to it.
Comment by Vince P — February 14, 2007 @ 1:10 pm – February 14, 2007
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