CNN: Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Gen. Peter Pace has sent a classified report to Defense Secretary Robert Gates and to Congress that says the risk is now “significant” that the U.S. military would not be able to meet its obligations if a third world crisis were to break out. Pace’s declaration has triggered a requirement under the law “for Secretary Gates to come up with what they call a ‘mitigation plan’ - once the risk is ’significant’ the Secretary must report to Congress on what he’s doing about it.” Video HERE.
UPDATE: The AP has details:
The assessment…represents a worsening from a year ago, when that risk was rated as moderate.
The report is classified, but on Monday senior defense officials, speaking on condition on anonymity, confirmed the decline in overall military readiness. And a report that accompanied Pace’s review concluded that while the Pentagon is working to improve its warfighting abilities, it “may take several years to reduce risk to acceptable levels.”
Why post this on a moonbat site when the libs don’t want to fight anyone anywhere?
February 26th, 2007 at 5:29 pmMitigation plan = draft
February 26th, 2007 at 5:29 pmQuick, TP trolls, get down there and enlist before the draft takes you!
Pattie ~ your boss called, he doesn’t want you to be the first poster on each thread. It’s too obvious that you’re a paid shill.
February 26th, 2007 at 5:33 pmSlow down, take a break, go change your piss soaked pants.
Patrick1: Quick! Quick! Hurry! Hurry! Get to your nearest armed forces recruiters to sign up for war before it’s too late. You can fight in Iraq, or Iran, or wherever they send you in my place.
February 26th, 2007 at 5:35 pmWhy would the left be willing to fight in a war(s) they dont believe in while at the same time the right arent willing to fight a war they o believe in ?
February 26th, 2007 at 5:35 pmMitigation plan:
1. fly GDumbya and Dick the Prick to Crawford
2. lock them in at the ranch
3. disconnect the phone
4. stock the freezer with lots of ice
5. crack open a case of Jim Beam
Viola! The country will be saved from a “third crisis”.
February 26th, 2007 at 5:36 pmThat’s funny, because Bush himself is about to start the third “world crisis” when he bombs Iran.
February 26th, 2007 at 5:43 pm#1 Patrick1
Why post this on a moonbat site when the libs don’t want to fight anyone anywhere?
I know this is tough to follow, Patrick. I’m not sure we can put it in terms that are simple enough for you to grasp, but I’ll give it one more shot. You see, if we use up all of our equipment and troops and weapons on a bogus war that Bush started just for his own personal enjoyment, we won’t have that equipment and troops and weapons available for a real war against a real enemy.
And while we’re on the subject, are you okay with the idea that Bush is doing exactly what bin Laden wants him to do? Burning up money and hurting the readiness of our national defenses on a pointless adventure in Iraq?
The bin Laden slogan goes something like: “Let’s fight them over here in the Middle East so they won’t be able to fight anymore anywhere else in the world.” And Bush is just dopey enough to fall for it. In fact, it’s just like ‘rope-a-dope’ on a massive scale.
February 26th, 2007 at 5:43 pmViola! The country will be saved from a “third crisisâ€.
Comment by Tom
Let’s take up a collection to fund this plan. :)
February 26th, 2007 at 5:46 pmWhy post this on a moonbat site when the libs don’t want to fight anyone anywhere?
Comment by Patrick1
Lets declare war officially against Saudi Arabia… Now its your turn. Why not?
February 26th, 2007 at 5:50 pmWrong, we want to fight the Taliban in Afghanistan and al Qaida in Pakistan.
We don’t want to be stuck in the middle of a civil war, of our creation, in Iraq.
February 26th, 2007 at 5:54 pmYeah, Gerald Gibson is correct. The thrid place we should be fighting in is Saudi Arabia.
So, to recap. Us moonbats want to fight:
Taliban in Afghanistan
al Qaida in Pakistan
al Qaida in Saudi Arabia
February 26th, 2007 at 5:59 pmIf it’s classified, how do you know what it says?
February 26th, 2007 at 5:59 pm#13 ~ Ron, it’s called leaking. You know, like the chymps Depends.
February 26th, 2007 at 6:04 pmCurrently no liberal is calling for an attack on either Saudi Arabia or Pakistan. The problem with the left is they simply don’t believe America is worth defending.
February 26th, 2007 at 6:15 pmStay on topic, Pat-back.
So how does this affect your desire to annihilate Iran? What if China decides to defend it’s Mid East oil buddies (Iran/Syria) by calling us on the trillions in debt? What if they persuade the Mid East to start trading in Euros for oil? Then they shoot down a couple of Military satellites?
Who’s/What’s left to defend the third front, oh wise Neocon bottom feeders?
Your fear of the Radical Islamists will cause YOU to destroy the U.S. from within, just like the collapse of the Soviet Union during the Cold War.
IDIOTS.
February 26th, 2007 at 6:26 pmFirst, you can’t say “no liberal” when two of us just did.
Second, do you know the difference between offense and defense?
What we are doing in Iraq is offense, not defense. If a knight attacks a castle, he is partaking in offense. The people in side the castle are defending it. The National Guard troops that are here in America are Defending it. The National Guard troops in Iraq are taking part in an offensive manuver.
February 26th, 2007 at 6:30 pmThe problem with the left is they simply don’t believe America is worth defending.
Comment by Patrick1
I don’t see you over there defending America from …. what? A sovergn nation led by a dictator who never threatened or attacked America in the first place?
And please, spare us the Bush-Cheney bullshit about Sadam’s connection to Al Qaeda.
February 26th, 2007 at 6:31 pmWhere would the left make their stand? It wasn’t in New York after the first world trade center bombing, it wasn’t in Africa after the embassies blew up, it wasn’t Yemen when the Cole was sunk and it wasn’t in Saudi Arabia, they don’t like the Taliban being gone and they are really pissed about Saddam being dead.
What is the left’s plan? So far it can be summed up in one word, Okinawa.
February 26th, 2007 at 6:36 pmZooey; I got slammed last Saturday, too tired to pursue that e-mail, logging off early tonight too, but I will catch up with you soon.
February 26th, 2007 at 6:38 pmIf I was in charge, step number one would be to round up traitors to this country like you Patrick1.
February 26th, 2007 at 6:41 pmRighto, Uncle Ho. :)
February 26th, 2007 at 6:41 pmPatrick1; I will fight IF and WHEN they are literally on Malibu beach but NOT before. If you are spoiling for a fight, get your ass in the army right now or STFU. I already had my war-Vietnam.
February 26th, 2007 at 6:41 pmWhy Malibu? When your ideology didn’t want to do anything when they were in New York City.
February 26th, 2007 at 6:43 pmPatrick, where were the Republicans screaming for vengeance in the 1990’s?
They were screaming for Bill Clinton’s penis on a platter. When Clinton bombed Afghanistan and the Sudan the Republican right was upset.
The Republican right screamed for Bill Clinton to withdraw from George H.W. Bush’s war in Somalia the moment there were US casualties.
Bill Clinton stopped the Y2k attacks. Executed Tim McVeigh, imprisoned the Blind Sheikh for life after WTC1.
The Republican right have clowned their way into Iraq and enjoy watching US troops getting blown to bits while they use the power of the US military like CityCorps painting schools and handing out candy.
The Republican right enjoy every single dead US soldier coming home under cover of darkness. The Republican right laughs at dead US troops and leap for glee everytime a reporter is killed too.
Now the Taliban is more powerful and ready for a big spring resurgence.
Great work asswipes.
-GSD
February 26th, 2007 at 6:46 pmHey dipsh!t, the perpetrators of the first WTC bombing were caught and jailed, unlike the perpetrators of the second WTC bombing.
You can lie to your republican friends, but it doesn’t work here.
February 26th, 2007 at 6:47 pmBut the planners, financiers and organization went merrily on..leading to 9/11. I ask again, does the American left have a plan to fight Islamo Fascism besides the United States running to Okinawa?
February 26th, 2007 at 6:50 pmAll I say is, Bushland Uber Allies HAD BETTER HOPE Hook-nose Ahmadinejad or Lil’ Kim Jong Mentally-Ill don’t get the URGE to do some MISCHIEF and MAYHEM because the U.S. SURE AS HELL DOESN’T HAVE ENOUGH TROOPS TO GO AFTER THOSE TWO!!!!! Bush, Cheney and Rice BETTER START READING UP ON “DIPLOMACY FOR DUMMIES,” because Bushland Uber Allies DOESN’T KNOW WHAT THE HELL THEY ARE DOING OR WHAT TO DO IN THE CASE OF A THIRD or is that TURD CRISIS, BECAUSE WHEN THE SHIT-TURDS HIT THE FAN, CHIMPya, Cheney, Rice, Rove and Bushland Uber Allies WILL HAVE THEIR FACES BESMIRCHED WITH PROBLEMS!!!!!
February 26th, 2007 at 6:51 pmDoes the American left want to go after the mullahs? If they don’t and they don’t really want to go after anyone but Bush, why do they care what shape the American military is end. Because when they had the chance to use it against the fascists in the 1990s, they didn’t.
February 26th, 2007 at 6:55 pmThe problem with the left is they simply don’t believe America is worth defending.
Comment by Patrick1 — February 26, 2007 @ 6:15 pm
Whoa, slow down there guy. This is what is called a straw man. Doesn’t work around these parts.
February 26th, 2007 at 6:56 pmThen what is their current plan to defeat the Islamists?
February 26th, 2007 at 6:57 pmFirst is to give all of the scaredy cats like you some diapers, a teddy bear and a blanky, that way you will feel safe and secure. don’t worry, we can make the blanky an American flag, that way you can wrap yourself up in your nationalism.
February 26th, 2007 at 7:01 pmIt seems our new resident troll is working overtime to avoid the topic of the thread -it must really hurt their frail psyche: Pres Bush’s disastrous military (mis)adventure in the MiddleEast, has over-stretched the military to the point where even the higher echelons of the US military are sounding the alarm.
Of course, a true Bush cultist will gnore that and instead change the subject to the left’s “appeasing terrorists”, the lack of a “plan” (the kind we were told was not needed), and the other usual talking points -ad nauseam. Yawn.
February 26th, 2007 at 7:01 pmpat-
February 26th, 2007 at 7:03 pmyou are such an a$$hole it is unbelievable. who is paying you to subvert this site?
it has to be willfull ignorance- and i say paid because it mimicks what the faux news pundits do. they are obviously paid to rabble-rouse. i don’t think they even believe it. it’s just there is money in dividing the populace by spewing BS.
And when the psychos in the White House are shitting in their pants and hiding in the deep bunkers following an attack on Iran, will they have a plan to send FEMA to deal with the multiple disasters from sea to shining sea that will result? I mean, does anyone doubt that the Iranians have hundreds of sleeper agents inside the land of the sheep with lots of ABC weapons only awaiting orders to give us a bit of mass destruction? Are you republican bastards prepared to die for BushChaney’s madness? You will. And you won’t even have to enlist in the Army to meet your maker( even if you had the balls to do so, which you don’t….Bullies never do).
February 26th, 2007 at 7:03 pmThe left is appeasing terrorist and if anyone believed this thread they would actually try something, but haven’t because they know it is not true. We are using only a small amount of our overall forces and capabilities in Iraq. I know the left wishes it were otherwise but it is not. I do find it interesting that they are concerned about the readiness of a force they shown they won’t use.
February 26th, 2007 at 7:04 pmFunny how Vince, Patrick and Michael seem to work in shifts… Never answering questions, always dodging reality, and repeating the same inane talking points.
Even Bill O’Lielly isn’t absurd enough to still defend the Bush Regime every step of the way - he just focuses on other petty nonsense now instead… Perhaps you boys should do the same, considering how you’re always getting spanked and haven’t converted a single soul here…
February 26th, 2007 at 7:06 pmI don’t intend to convert. As so many others have when you get a job you will become a conservative. My purpose is to educate and make fun of.
February 26th, 2007 at 7:09 pmI do find it interesting that they are concerned about the readiness of a force they shown they won’t use.
Comment by Patrick1 — February 26, 2007 @ 7:04 pm
And you continue to dodge my question about why no one attacks Switzerland. Rich First World Switzerland, by the way… Why can’ty ou just admit that peace begets peace, and the US military policy of war simply begets more war?
For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. Give violence, you get violence. Basic stuff.
February 26th, 2007 at 7:10 pmAnd when the psychos in the White House are shitting in their pants and hiding in the deep bunkers following an attack on Iran, will they have a plan to send FEMA to deal with the multiple disasters from sea to shining sea that will result? I mean, does anyone doubt that the Iranians have hundreds of sleeper agents inside the land of the sheep with lots of ABC weapons only awaiting orders to give us a bit of mass destruction? Are you republican bastards prepared to die for BushChaney’s madness? You will. And you won’t even have to enlist in the Army to meet your maker( even if you had the balls to do so, which you don’t….Bullies never do).
Comment by crazyvietnamveteranagainstfailedwars
The russians did do that… I am not so sure the Iranians have got what it takes to be that forward leaning against us.
February 26th, 2007 at 7:15 pmSwitzerland? Now you are being a comic.
February 26th, 2007 at 7:17 pmTo Patrick the tool/troll:
RE 35 above:
Yeah, keep thinking that we have all this ready reserve prepared to “take THEM on”…I guess you know something that General Pace does not.
YOu have nothing to fear but stupidy itself.
February 26th, 2007 at 7:18 pmNot sure if you are getting an education, but we sure are making fun of you.
February 26th, 2007 at 7:19 pm#42 Spudge Boy
Patrick1 is actually proving how intelligent people on the right are. They can swallow the talking points fed to them, and regurgitate them every time reality threatens their little nut-topia. Of course, us liberals are all stupid since we take the time to think about things and actually question certain points that do not make sense. If we were smart, we would abandon critical and analytical thinking that causes such pain and despair for blissful ignorance, that way we could all be happy right up until the point our government decides our planet no longer needs to exist.
February 26th, 2007 at 7:25 pmSwitzerland? Now you are being a comic.
Comment by Patrick1 — February 26, 2007 @ 7:17 pm
In other words, you’re stumped and think this silly retort will serve to hide that fact… LOL… About as much as a cow hiding behind the head of a pin…
As I already stated, you haven’t converted anyone - none of you and your juvenile brethern have - so go waste your time watching reruns of Jackass on MTV instead..
February 26th, 2007 at 7:26 pmMy purpose is to educate
Comment by Patrick1 — February 26, 2007 @ 7:09 pm
Now this is really funny.
Yes, please, Patrick -educate us on how Iran was not building a nuclear power plant before the 1979 overthrow of the Shah, how the Shah never signed a nuclear cooperation treaty with the US, and how his government did not see nuclear power as a good alternative for energy generation in Iran.
/sarcasm off
When you are done with that, educate us on why we should consider your opinion on the US military readiness over Gen. Pace’s.
Do try, Patrick1.
February 26th, 2007 at 8:11 pmWho would be silly enough to pay Patrick1 to post here — not even the republiscum — I think he is just naturally stupid.
February 26th, 2007 at 8:23 pmHe doesn’t even see that the “mitigation” probably involves a draft — and if he’s under 42, he will be on the list to go and demonstrate his fealty to his boy-king George and his insane plan to rule the world in his real-life game of Risk.
“Islam makes it incumbent on all adult males, provided they are not disabled and incapacitated, to prepare themselves for the conquest of [other] countries so that the writ of Islam is obeyed in every country in the world. But those who study Islamic Holy War will understand why Islam wants to conquer the whole world…. Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those [who say this] are witless. Islam says Kill all the unbelievers just as they would kill you all! Does this mean that Muslims should sit back until they are devoured by [the unbelievers] Islam says Kill them [the non-Muslims], put them to the sword and scatter [their armies]. Does this mean sitting back until [non-Muslims] overcome us Islam says Kill in the service of Allah those who may want to kill you! Does this mean that we should surrender to the enemy Islam says Whatever good there is exists thanks to the sword and in the shadow of the sword! People cannot be made obedient except with the sword! The sword is the key to Paradise, which can be opened only for Holy Warriors! There are hundreds of other [Koranic] verses and Hadiths [sayings of the Prophet] urging Muslims to value war and to fight. Does all that mean that Islam is a religion that prevents men from waging war I spit upon those foolish souls who make such a claim.†- Ayatollah Khomeini
“The final goal of the revolution is to create global Islamic rule and a regime of law to be led by the Imam Mahdiâ€. - commandant of Iran’s elite Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps, Major General Yahya Rahim Safavi
an advisor to the new Iranian govt says his country’s objective is the destruction of the evil in the world perputated by England and the nations derived from England
commandant of Iran’s elite Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps, Major General Yahya Rahim Safavi, said on state television, “The final goal of the [1979] revolution is to create global Islamic rule and a regime of law to be led by the Imam Mahdiâ€. “God willing, the 21st century will see the defeat of the U.S. and the Zionists, and the victory of freedom-seeking nations of the worldâ€.
Commandant of Iran’s elite Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps, Major General Yahya Rahim Safavi, said on state television. “God willing, the 21st century will see the defeat of the U.S. and the Zionists, and the victory of freedom-seeking nations of the world. The final goal of the [1979] revolution is to create global Islamic rule and a regime of law to be led by the Imam Mahdiâ€.
The [Iranians] President’s chief strategist, Hassan Abbassi, has come up with a war plan based on the premise that “Britain is the mother of all evils†– the evils being America, Australia, New Zealand, Israel, the Gulf states and even Canada, all of whom are the malign progeny of the British Empire. “We have a strategy drawn up for the destruction of Anglo-Saxon civilization,†says Mr Abbassi. “There are 29 sensitive sites in the U.S. and in the West. We have already spied on these sites and we know how we are going to attack them… Once we have defeated the Anglo-Saxons the rest will run for cover.â€
The IRGC chief warned that Iran was seeing through “critical days†and “fate-determining yearsâ€. He described the purpose of Iran’s 1979 Islamic revolution as the “Salvation of Muslims†from the hands of the “oppressive U.S. and Israelâ€.
February 26th, 2007 at 8:35 pmIt’s Bill Clinton’s fault our military is half the size it was when it was given to him in 1992
February 26th, 2007 at 8:36 pmBush did not invent the Iraq - Osama connection.
Evidence:
http://vincep312.home.comcast.net
On my page there, near the end, is a video of ABC News from 1999 on such connections.
February 26th, 2007 at 8:38 pmunanswerable says: Funny how Vince, Patrick and Michael seem to work in shifts… Never answering questions, always dodging reality, and repeating the same inane talking points.
I ignore half of them because the current situation in the world isn’t altered by your pointing out anything from the past. Asking me what I think about what Bush did in 1756 doesn’t change the fact that we’re living in history’s 3rd Islamic Jihad.
February 26th, 2007 at 8:40 pmWatch the Democrats eat their own:
http://hotair.com/ archives/ 2007/ 02/ 26/ video-peace-creeps-beg-cops-to-arrest-patty-murray-for-war-crimes/
February 26th, 2007 at 8:54 pmIt’s Bill Clinton’s fault our military is half the size it was when it was given to him in 1992
Comment by Vince P — February 26, 2007 @ 8:36 pm
Unlike the war-mongering Resident in charge now, he didn’t need it to be big. Besides, Bush has had 6 years to enlarge it. Not surprising that he cannot.
And, see my Switzerland comment…
February 26th, 2007 at 8:56 pmI ignore half of them because the current situation in the world isn’t altered by your pointing out anything from the past.
You ignore them because you cannot answer them.
History forgotten is destined to be repeated. No wonder you keep beating the same dead horse and expecting different results…
Besides,I was talking about Switzerland not being attacked despite their enormous wealth and higher standard of living than we have (the very thing you people claim got us attacked on 9/11… so why not them? I bet you can’t answer that and will instead say something utterly asinine instead.)
Asking me what I think about what Bush did in 1756 doesn’t change the fact that we’re living in history’s 3rd Islamic Jihad.
Comment by Vince P — February 26, 2007 @ 8:40 pm
Unlike you, I know that Bush wasn’t alive in 1756.
I also know that the Muslims were fighting one another in teh Middle East until we poked our noses into it. Kindalike whining about being stung after stirring the beehive. You dolts will never understand cause and effect because your paranoia has shut off your higher brain functions…
February 26th, 2007 at 9:01 pmBill Clinton’s inaction lead to the current state of international affairs.. the world got steadily more dangerous under his watch, and those dangers exploded early in Bush’s terms. Any objective person would see that.
February 26th, 2007 at 9:02 pmMore Religion of Pieces love:
Man hit by cab after muslim driver made anti-Semetic [sic] comments. (Hat tip: LGF readers.)
A Nashville cabbie made anti-Semitic statements and praised Adolph Hitler’s campaign against Jews during a religious argument that culminated when he ran over one of the passengers as he left the taxi, witnesses said during a hearing today.
The cab driver, Ibrahim Ahmed, said Hitler was “trying to rid the world of Jews,†the alleged victim, Jeremie Imbus, told the court.
“I just remember …(being)… I guess the word is ‘shocked,’†Imbus said of the Feb. 18 incident.
Imbus and his friend Andrew Nelson, both of Ohio, had come to town to visit a friend and had been out drinking in downtown bars earlier in the evening. Imbus, who was wheeled into the courtroom in a wheelchair, said he couldn’t remember much about the night.
But his friend, Nelson, said he pulled Imbus out of the cab as he kicked at the back of the cabbie’s seat. Both men the took off running, he said. Nelson heard the vehicle accelerate and then saw the mini-van hit his friend, he testified. Imbus suffered a broken leg, a fractured pelvic bone and several other injuries.
Ahmed, 37, was working for United Cab Co., at the time. He faces charges of attempted criminal homicide.
February 26th, 2007 at 9:04 pmIn the post-cold war, with the bankruptcy of Russia and the destruction of the Berlin wall, there was a great push from congress to shave the defense department budget.
February 26th, 2007 at 9:04 pmSorry, Vince P, the world got steadily more dangerous under the watch of Bush. What are you doing having a pissing contest? A contest that Bush could proudly win.
February 26th, 2007 at 9:08 pmUnbelievable: Please tell me which group of people the US found itself at war with it shortly after the Revolution and was in fact, our first overseas military engagement.
February 26th, 2007 at 9:09 pmRE: blaming b.clinton for g.bush mistakes…..Actually its all George washtington’s fault. He didn’t dispatch the revolutionary army to attack the islamic caliphate….father of all mistakes….
February 26th, 2007 at 9:09 pmMarie: I realize that. It was callled the so-called “peace dividend”.
It’s a mistake the United States always makes when it thinks a major conflict it had fought is resolved. The world is not so accomodating unfortunately.
February 26th, 2007 at 9:12 pmMarie: there is no denyign the world is getting increasily more dangerous all the time. I didnt’ mean to say that bush had stopped the progression.
However, Clinton was president at a strategic time.. the inception of the global jihad movement.. if more was done then, perhaps this movement could have been aborted, unfortunately, it’s gone to full term and the egg hatched in 2001.
February 26th, 2007 at 9:15 pmI’m not one to dwell on the past though, what’s done is done. We must fight it now, lest the same mistakes be made. We cannot allow them to control territory and establish stablity that they will use to scheme schemes.. instead they must be kept on a continious defensive posture.
Vince P.
Obviously you are not an objective person … otherwise you would be a liberal.
And the US found itself at war with middle eastern nations that were engaged in piracy for economic purposes, not anti-western jihadists. I would suggest you take some history courses, but the history channel would do just to relieve you of your historical ignorance.
BTW, I thought you said “the current situation in the world isn’t altered by your pointing out anything from the past. ” Therefore that reputes all your attempts to point to history to prove the violent nature of Islam.
February 26th, 2007 at 9:17 pmAshen WHat I meant about the past was this:
I say: We’re facing jihad in Waziristan
Someoen will counter: well if reagan didn’t fire the ATC in 1981 this woulnd’t have happend.
(I’m being absurd on purpose), even if Reagan’s firing ATC did have something to do with it, we’re in 2007 and nothing about talking about what happened in 1981 changes that.
In other words,, the tactic of responding to something I say by asking me to acknoweldge some past decision as if it disproves what I said is a fallacy.
And then your statement about teh Barbary war is wrong. Jefferson himself disputes you:
In 1786 Jefferson and John Adams went to negotiate with Tripoli’s envoy to London, Ambassador Sidi Haji Abdrahaman or (Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja). They asked him by what right he extorted money and took slaves. Jefferson reported to Secretary of State John Jay, and to the Congress:
The ambassador answered us that [the right] was founded on the Laws of the Prophet (Mohammed), that it was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have answered their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as prisoners, and that every Mussulman who should be slain in battle was sure to go to heaven
February 26th, 2007 at 9:29 pmWar against Islam was the first war this country found itself in. This is the nature of the Islam,.. perputual war.
February 26th, 2007 at 9:31 pm“Jefferson .. deduced that the best way to learn about the political, military, social, economic, and religious agendas of America’s enemies was to read the best textbook on all things Muslim. So he read the Koran in what for his day was a state-of-the-art translation into English directly from the Arabic. Jefferson’s copy of the Koran equipped him with everything he needed to know on how to respond to threats from the caliphates of the early 1800s.
In response to a declaration of war on the United States of America by the Barbary Coast caliphates, Thomas Jefferson sent the USS Constitution to the Mediterranean in 1803. The fighting during those days saw so many acts of heroism that established the U.S. Navy as a force to be reckoned with.
In 1805, the Constitution supported the landing of Marines “on the shores of Tripoli†in an action that later was immortalized in the Marine Corps Hymn. The Americans and their allies destroyed the harbor citadel at Derna that served as the headquarters for the pirates.
The first blue-water ocean-going war machine of the new United States Navy turned the Tripoli harbor from state-of-the-art fortifications (state-of-the-art for 18th century Muslims, that is) back to 7th century piles of rubble. The United States Navy literally freed the Mediterranean and the world from domination by militant Islam for nearly 200 years.
The crew of the USS Constitution beat the tar out of those international terrorists. That led to a peace treaty that lasted for almost two hundred years until September 11th, 2001, when conservative, Wahhabi-type, radical Islam killed nearly 3,000 Americans.
Jefferson’s resolve to fight had its beginings in his reading the Koran as the best source of the time that was all things Muslim. Jefferson knew that 18th century Americans were in danger from what we call today conservative, Wahhabi-type, radical Islam. ”
Like Jefferson, I too have read what the texts the Muslims belive in and produce and I too came to his conclusion. We must defend ourselves by taking the battle to them.
February 26th, 2007 at 9:47 pmVince P.
Perpetual war is the nature of all humans. Many people find excuses in religion to do what they do. So you cannot just single out Muslims for it.
And actually, the first war this country found itself in, if you discount the Revolution, was the Whiskey Rebellion, which was against our own citizens.
The war we ended up in with the Muslim countries was due to our countries ignorance. Those countries had been excising tribute from every nation which used those waters for trade for generations. Our leaders arrogantly thought we were different, and suffered for it. In the end, they ended up paying the tribute anyway and nothing happened.
You should realize that most Muslims are peaceful and do not believe in the ideology of Jihad. If they did, your worst fear about them conquering the world would already have been realized. Like any religion, there are extremists. The extremists should be dealt with and those that are peaceful should not be punished for the crimes of a few individuals.
February 26th, 2007 at 9:48 pmAshen it’s amazing how far you’ll go, including lies, to whitewash the Jihad.
In the beginning of the conflict, Adams thought it was best to appease them, just like the Europeans thought. however, in the end we SMASHED the Muslims and demanded tribute FROM them.
And you make it sound like we were in their terroritorial waters.. no, they were seizing all kinds of ships all throughout the mediterrean. You are continiously wrong about the facts. You were wrong about there not being a religious motivation, you were wrong about the scope of the sea they operated in, you were wrong about the resolution.
You are wrong a lot, yet you thnk you’re going to correct me? hah. You need to study some more. Someone as wrong as you shouldn’t be so sure that you’re right especially against someone like me who has spent years studyingthis stuff directly.
February 26th, 2007 at 9:53 pmAnd it doesn’t matter how most Muslims behave. What matters is their ideology. Islam contains within it everything a Muslim needs to behave in a barabarious violent way toward Non-Muslims. The fact that any number of Muslims choose to ignore those parts of the ideology doesn’t negate their validity within that faith.
So yes, not every Muslim is a terrorist. but Islam is prone to terrorism uniquely. in that it is the only major religion which commands its believers of all time to kill non-believers. No other religion has those insturctions. And before you start pasting OT verses, remember no matter how bad you think the OT is, the Koran matches it in every respect and even more, so it’s irrelevent to point out something the size of an insect to distract from a super-nova-sized problem
February 26th, 2007 at 9:56 pmIs Bush the Anti-Christ?
The Bible gives us a way to prove whether or not a person is the Antichrist. Rev 13:18 says: “Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.” That is, the number 666. St. John the apostle, the author of Revelation, was a Jew who wrote in Greek, though he did his thinking in Hebrew. He knew that every Hebrew letter has a numeric equivalent, and that’s how the number 666 originated. Gematria is the process of adding up or counting the letters of the Hebrew alphabet in a word or name.
G = 3 (gimel)
e = 5 (heh)
o = 70 (ayin)
r = 200 (resh)
g = 3 (gimel)
e = 5 (heh)
B = 2 (beth)
u = 70 (ayin)
s = 300 (shin)
h = 8 (cheth)
total = 666 (Antichrist)
“Revelation 13:1-2 “And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns upon its horns, and a blasphemous name upon its heads. And the beast I saw was like a leopard, its feet were like a bear’s, and its mouth was like a lion’s mouth. And to it the dragon gave his power and his throne and great authority. One of the heads of the beast seemed to have a mortal wound, but the mortal wound had been healed.â€
This beast is the image of an empire – the final world empire, and the one that gives rise to the Antichrist. Its body is likened to a leopard, because according to Victorinus, a father of the early church ““This signifies the kingdom of that time of Antichrist, and the people mingled with the variety of nations.†The spots on the leopard represent a multi-national, multi-racial, and multi-cultural ‘melting pot’..
The mouth is like a lion because Americans speak English, and the United States was once an English colony, and England has always been represented by a lion on the Royal Coat of Arms of the United Kingdom.
It says this beast comes out of the sea, and this is in reference to the New World, which was discovered by navigators like Columbus. The United States came out of the sea in the sense that at the time of St. John’s vision, it was assumed that the only thing west of Europe and east of the orient was water and the end of the world.
“Daniel 7: 7-8 “After that, in my vision at night I looked, and there before me was a fourth beast- terrifying and frightening and very powerful. It had large iron teeth; it crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. It was different from all the former beasts, and it had ten horns. While I was thinking about the horns, there before me was another horn, a little one, which came up among them; and three of the first horns were uprooted before it. This horn had eyes like the eyes of a man and a mouth that spoke boastfully.â€
Horns symbolize power or virility, and the horns of the beast represent the powerful men who have come to rule over the American empire. Daniel says quite explicitly (Dan 7: 24) “the ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom. After them another king will arise, different from the earlier ones. (the Antichrist)†America acquired superpower status, and gained the reach of a world-class Empire, when it acquired the nuclear bomb - at the very end of WWII. Since then there have been exactly ten “kings†or post-war presidents: Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, BushSr, and Clinton.
The prophecy from Daniel says that after these ten presidents, there will appear another one, an arrogant “little hornâ€, which is the Antichrist, George W Bush. It says this “little horn†is unlike the other ten presidents, and this is in reference to the fact that Bush had no popular mandate, that he lost the popular vote by over a million votes, and was appointed to office when five un-elected judges on the Supreme Court stopped the counting of votes in Florida. This never happened before in American history, and it makes him different from his predecessors – that and his arrogance, dishonesty, law-breaking, and lust for world power.
It also says that “three of the first horns (10 presidents) were uprooted before it.†Bush is a far-right Republican, and this in reference to the fact that when Bush Jr came to office, right-wing conspiracies had already uprooted and destroyed the presidencies of three previous key Democratic presidents, thereby changing history and sabotaging a more moderate course for the nation: John Kennedy, by assassination, Jimmy Carter, through the Iran hostage crisis “October Surprise†, and finally the Monica Lewinski sex impeachment. (which ultimately damaged Gore, as part of the Clinton/Gore presidency.) In all three of these right-wing conspiracies, there was direct involvement by the Bush crime family.
Finally, what about the seven heads? Just as the ten crowns represent the power held by ten empires that divided the power of Rome, the seven heads are the G-7. Group of Seven, seven industrialized nations of the world, formed in 1976 when Canada joined the Group of Six (United States of America, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, United Kingdom).
Most of all look at everything that is happening in the world today. We are on the brink of WWIII.
February 26th, 2007 at 10:00 pmVince P.
I’m a historian in training, you are a fascist sheep. I suggest you not try and challenge me on matters of history, but I guess you enjoy being proven false. This is not my area of expertise, but I still happen to be much closer to the truth than you are.
Read this, its a good summary, don’t make me embarrass you any more by getting a more extensive source for you:
http://www.answers.com/topic/first-barbary-war
btw, we paid them $60,000 for the release of prisoners.
February 26th, 2007 at 10:03 pmI remember freaks like “Bush is the AntiChrist” on the Morton Downy Jr. show.. they were saying how Ronald Reagan was the Anti Christ because his names Ronald Wilson Reagan each had 6 letters. retards then, retards now.
February 26th, 2007 at 10:03 pm#67, Bush is the Anti-Christ
Please, he doesn’t have any ability, don’t give him credit for anything, he might start to believe it.
February 26th, 2007 at 10:03 pm>btw, we paid them $60,000 for the release of prisoners
I acknoweldged that.. “In the beginning of the conflict, Adams thought it was best to appease them”
So eager to prove me wrong that you dont even read what I say. Well, I should know better than engage with people who are only interested in repeating the echo.
February 26th, 2007 at 10:11 pmVince P.
The echo you are talking about is reality and objectivity. That 60k was paid as part of the deal to end the war.
February 26th, 2007 at 10:16 pmWrong again.
“After persistent demands for recompensation mingled with threats of destruction, the Dey [the Muslim leader] capitulated. Decatur [United States] agreed to return the captured Meshuda and Estedio while the Algerians returned all American (and a significant proportion of European) captives along with $10,000 in payment for seized shipping. The treaty guaranteed no further tributes and granted American shipping full rights.”
February 26th, 2007 at 10:34 pm#73
If you want to play academic, cite your source please.
February 26th, 2007 at 10:39 pmCorrection, since TP seems to be changing numbers constantly, Vince P. cite your source please.
February 26th, 2007 at 10:40 pmARTICLE 1st
There shall be from the Conclusion of this treaty, a firm inviolable and universal peace and friendship between the President and Citizens of the United States of America on the one part, and the Dey and Subjects of the Regency of Algiers in Barbary, on the other, made by the free consent of both parties and upon the terms of the most favored nations; and if either party shall hereafter grant to any other nation, any particular favor or privilege in navigation or Commerce it shall immediately become common to the other party, freely when freely it is granted to such other nation; but when the grant is conditional, it shall be at the option of the contracting parties to accept, alter, or reject such conditions, in such manner as shall be most conducive to their respective interests.
ARTICLE 2d
It is distinctly understood between the Contracting parties, that no tribute either as biennial presents, or under any other form or name whatever, shall ever be required by the Dey and Regency of Algiers from the United States of America on any pretext whatever.
ARTICLE 3rd
The Dey of Algiers shall cause to be immediately delivered up to the American Squadron now off Algiers all the American Citizens now in his possession, amounting to ten more or less, and all the Subjects of the Dey of Algiers now in the power of the United States amounting to five hundred more or less, shall be delivered up to him, the United States according to the usages of civilized nations requiring no ransom for the excess of prisoners in their favor.
ARTICLE 4th
A just and full compensation shall be made by the Dey of Algiers to such citizens of the United States, as have been Captured, and detained by Algerine Cruizers, or who have been forced to abandon their property in Algiers in violation of the 22d article of the treaty of peace and amity1 concluded between the United States and the Dey of Algiers on the 5 September 1795.
And it is agreed between the contracting parties, that in lieu of the above, the Dey of Algiers shall cause, to be delivered forthwith into the hands of the American Consul residing in Algiers the whole of a quantity of Bales of Cotton left by the late Consul General of the United States in the public magazines in Algiers; and that he shall pay into the hands of the said Consul the sum of ten thousand Spanish dollars.
http://www.yale.edu/ lawweb/ avalon/ diplomacy/ barbary/ bar1815t.htm
February 26th, 2007 at 10:42 pmIf you’re a historian in training.. you sure have a lot of training to do.
Call me a NAZI now for quoting the treaty directly.
February 26th, 2007 at 10:46 pmFirst off Vince P., that is from the second barbary war, not the first, and you were saying that it was after that first war that we received tribute. We did not, and when you add in the amount we received upon the end of the 2nd, our country had still paid more to the barbery state than they paid to us.
And your still a fascist since picking any group out as different and then saying we should treat them differently is using the same rhetoric as the NSDAP used for the Jews, they are different, a danger, and thus must be dealt with as such to protect our people.
And your accusing me of not being objective is laughable since you are quite subjective by coming here with the belief that Islam is inherently different and inherently violent. I don’t think you could get more subjective than that. If you want to be objective, you compare Islam to every other religion in history. You do that, and you realize its inherent to religion in general and not just one religion. If you do that, then you might start to comprehend reality.
February 26th, 2007 at 10:57 pmI dont know how to put it any plainer… Islam is unique in its commands for all future believers to kill non-believers.
Prove me wrong… should be easy to do.
I take Islam at its word.. that makes me objective. You are applying your own cultural values and applying them on all faiths universally with no evidence.
About the Barbary War.. yes, I was always referring to its eventual conclusion.. why would I have restricted myself to the first round of battles?
Not sure what the point of ignoring the 2nd and final war is.
Regarding NAZI’s.. it’s Islam which teaches that Muslims will not get thier messiah until they kill all Jews on earth. It doesn’t make me a NAZI to notice that. It makes them a NAZI for having that as a part of thier faith.
February 26th, 2007 at 11:07 pmVince P.
You dismiss all the examples I have given. You are blind because you are so afraid. Most Muslims wish to live in peace. Look at the Five Pillars of Islam, there is no call for war and the killing of non-believers.
BTW, they consider Christians and Jews as brothers of the book. If all Muslims followed their Koran to the core (which they don’t), they won’t annihilate brothers of the book who do not attack them first.
You cannot take any religion at its word, no religion follows their teachings to the word. If you realized that, you would realize that Islam itself is not a danger, but the extremists who wish to apply every word of the Koran to every person in the world, as Christian extremists wish to apply every word of the Bible to every person in the world.
I am against all religious extremism, and I know the dangers of Islamic extremism. In addition to that I know the dangers of Christian extremism, and Jewish extremism. I also realize that every other religion in the world is capable of extremism. Even Buddhism can and has become violent.
You cannot eliminate Muslims from our country, and if you could, there is always another group to be afraid of. The best thing to do is realize the danger and understand that it is universal. Present Islamic fundamentalism is part of the greater problem of the adaptation to modernity. People don’t understand change, don’t like change, and so they react to it, sometimes violently. The problem must be identified and dealt with proatively, not in reactionary fits that will only ensure continued unrest, violence, and ignorance.
February 26th, 2007 at 11:28 pmRegarding “People of the Book”… (you are so easily deceived.. by one phrase! Did you bother to look deeper?)
Qur’an 5:17 “Verily they are disbelievers and infidels who say, ‘The Messiah, son of Mary, is God.’”
Qur’an 5:51 “Believers, take not Jews and Christians for your friends. They are but friends and protectors to each other.”
Qur’an 5:72 “They are surely infidels who blaspheme and say: ‘God is Christ, the Messiah, the son of Mary.’ But the Messiah only said: ‘O Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.’”
Qur’an 74:31 “We have appointed nineteen angels to be the wardens of the Hell Fire. We made a stumbling-block for those who disbelieve and We have fixed their number as a trial for unbelievers in order that the People of the Book may arrive with certainty, and that no doubts may be left for the People of the Book, those in whose hearts is a disease.”
Ishaq:180 “According to my information, the Apostle often sat by a young Christian slave named Jabr. The Meccans said, ‘He is the one who teaches Muhammad most of what he brings.’ Then Allah revealed, Qur’an 16:103 ‘We know what they (pagans) say: “It is only a mortal man who teaches him (Muhammad). But the tongue of the man they wickedly point to is notably foreign, while this (Qur’an) is pure Arabic.’”
Qur’an 72:15 “But the Qasitun (disbelievers) are the firewood of hell.”
Qur’an 88:1 “Has the narration reached you of the overwhelming (calamity)? Some faces (Jews and Christians) that Day, will be humiliated, downcast, scorched by the burning fire, while they are made to drink from a boiling hot spring.”
Qur’an 9:29 “Fight those who do not believe in Allah or the Last Day, who do not forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, or acknowledge the Religion of Truth (Islam), (even if they are) People of the Book (Christians and Jews), until they pay the Jizyah tribute tax in submission, feeling themselves subdued and brought low.” [Another translation says:] “pay the tax in acknowledgment of our superiority and their state of subjection.”
Ishaq:552 “The Quraysh had put pictures in the Ka’aba including two of Jesus and one of Mary. Muhammad ordered that the pictures should be erased.”
Qur’an 5:14 “From those, too, who call themselves Christians, We made a covenant, but they forgot and abandoned a good part of the message that was sent them: so we estranged them, stirred up enmity and hatred among them to the Day of Doom. Soon will Allah show them the handiwork they have done.”
Qur’an 5:15 “O People of the Book! There has come to you Our Apostle, revealing to you much that you used to hide in your Scripture, suppressing and passing over much. There has come to you from Allah a (new) light (Muhammad) and a clear Book [the Qur’an].”
Qur’an 5:17 “…Say (Muhammad): ‘Who then has the least power against Allah, if His will were to destroy Christ, the Messiah, the son of Mary, his mother, and everyone else on earth?”
Qur’an 5:18 “The Jews and the Christians say: ‘We are sons of Allah, and his beloved.’ Say: ‘Why then does He punish you for your sins? Nay, you are but men. He forgives whom He wishes and punishes whom He pleases.’”
Qur’an 5:35 “Believers, fear Allah and seek the way to approach Him, striving hard, fighting Jihad with all your might in His Cause that you may be successful. As for the disbelievers [previously defined as Christians], if they had everything on earth, two times over, to give as ransom for the penalty of the Day of Doom, it would never be accepted from them. Theirs will be a painful torment. They will desire to get out of the fire, but they shall not be released from it. They shall have an everlasting torture.”
Qur’an 5:47 “Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah has revealed therein. If any fail to judge by what Allah has revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.”
Qur’an 5:48 “To you [Christians] We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah has revealed.”
February 26th, 2007 at 11:35 pmQur’an 5:49 “And this (He commands): Judge between them by what Allah has revealed and follow not their [Christian] desires, but beware of them lest they beguile you, seducing you away from any of that which Allah hath sent down to you. And if they turn you away [from being Muslims], be assured that for their crime it is Allah’s purpose to smite them. Truly most men are rebellious.”
Qur’an 5:57 “Believers, take not for friends those who take your religion for a mockery or sport, a joke, whether among those who received the Scripture before you or among those who reject Faith; but fear Allah.”
Qur’an 5:68 “Say: ‘People of the Scripture Book! You have no ground to stand upon unless you observe the Taurat [Torah], the Injeel [Gospel], and all the Revelation that has come to you from your Lord.’ It is certain to increase their rebellion and blasphemy. But grieve you not over unbelieving people.”
Qur’an 5:72 “…Lo! Whoever joins other gods with Allah or says He has a partner, Allah has forbidden Paradise, and the Hell Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help.”
Qur’an 5:73 “They are surely disbelievers who blaspheme and say: ‘God is one of three in the Trinity for there is no Ilah (God) except One, Allah. If they desist not from saying this (blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall them—the disbelievers will suffer a painful doom.”
Qur’an 5:75 “The Messiah, Christ, the son of Mary, was no more than a messenger; many were the messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had to eat their food. See how Allah does make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded!”
Qur’an 4:157 “‘We [Jews] killed the Messiah, Jesus,’ but they killed him not, nor crucified him. It appeared so to them (as the resemblance of Jesus was put over another man and they killed that man). Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself. Those who differ with this version are full of doubts. They have no knowledge and follow nothing but conjecture. For surely they killed him not.”
Qur’an 4:171 “O People of the Book! Do not exaggerate in your religion; nor speak lies of Allah. The Messiah, Christ Jesus, the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a Spirit proceeding from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not ‘Trinity.’ Cease and Desist: (it is) better for you: for Allah is one Ilah (God). (Far it is removed from him of) having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs. The Messiah is proud to be a slave of Allah, as are the angels, those nearest. Those who disdain His worship and are arrogant. He will gather them all together unto Himself to (answer)…. He will punish with a painful doom; Nor will they find, besides Allah, any to protect or save them.”
Qur’an 4:159 “And there is none of the People of the Book but will believe in him (Jesus as only a messenger of Allah and a human being) before his (Jesus’) death. He will be a witness against them.”
February 26th, 2007 at 11:35 pmQur’an 5:77 “Say (Muhammad): ‘People of the Book, do not overstep the bounds in your religion, or follow the people who erred and led many astray. Cursed are the unbelievers among the Children of Israel by David and Jesus…. They do vile things, allying themselves with the infidels so that Allah’s indignation is upon them and in torment they will suffer for all eternity.” [Another translation reads:] “Curses were pronounced on the unbelievers, the Children of Israel who rejected Islam, by the tongues of David and of Jesus because they disobeyed and rebelled.”
Qur’an 5:80 “You see many of them allying themselves with the unbelieving infidels. Vile indeed are their souls. Allah’s wrath is on them, and in torment will they abide.”
Qur’an 5:81 “If only they had believed in Allah, in the Prophet, and in what had been revealed to him.”
Qur’an 5:82 “You will find the Jews and disbelievers [defined as Christians in 5:73] the most vehement in hatred for the Muslims.”
Qur’an 5:110 “And God will say: ‘O Jesus! Recount My favor to you and to your mother. Behold! I strengthened you with the Holy Spirit so that you spoke to the people in the cradle and in the prime of life. Behold! I taught you the law and the judgment, the Torah and the Gospel. And behold, you made out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird and you breathed into it and it became a bird by My permission. And you healed those born blind by My permission and the lepers by My permission. And behold! You raised forth the dead by My permission. And behold! I did restrain the Jews from harming you when you came with clear proofs. And the unbelievers among the Jews said: ‘This is nothing but magic.’”
Qur’an 5:111 “Behold! I inspired the [Christian] disciples to have faith in Me and My Messenger. They said, ‘We are believers, and bear witness that we prostrate ourselves to Allah as Muslims.’”
Qur’an 5:112 “Behold! The disciples, said: ‘O Jesus, can your Lord send down to us a table well laid out from heaven?’ Said Jesus: ‘Fear Allah, if you have faith.’ When the disciples said: ‘O Jesus, son of Mary, is your Lord able to send down for us a table spread with food from heaven?’ He said: “Observe your duty to Allah, if you are true believers.’” Qur’an 5:113 “They said: ‘We only wish to eat thereof to satisfy our hearts, and to know that you have told us the truth. We want to witnesses a miracle.’ Said Jesus, the son of Mary: ‘O Allah our Lord! Send us from heaven a table well laid out, that there may be for us a feast, a Sign from you.”
Qur’an 5:115 “Allah said: ‘I am going to send it down unto you, but if any of you after that disbelieves, resisting Faith [Islam], I will punish him with a torment such as I have not inflicted on any one of my creatures, man or jinn. I will punish them with a torment such as I have not inflicted on any one of my creatures.”
Qur’an 5:116 “And behold! Allah will say: ‘O Jesus, the son of Mary! Did you say unto men, worship me and my mother as two gods besides Allah?’ He will say: ‘Glory to You! Never could I utter what I had no right.”
Qur’an 5:117 “I only said what You (Allah) commanded me to say: Worship Allah, my lord and your Lord. I was a witness over them while I dwelt amongst them but you took me up. (This is a great admonition and warning to the Christians of the whole world.)”
Tabari IX:15 “One of the Ansari who was plundering the slain came upon a Thaqif boy. He discovered that he was an uncircumcised Christian. He uncovered others and then yelled out at the top of his voice, ‘Allah knows that the Thaqif are uncircumcised.”
February 26th, 2007 at 11:36 pmTabari IX:86 “Don’t seduce the Jews or Christians for incumbent on them is to pay the jizyah protection tax.”
Bukhari:V2B23N414 “The Prophet in his fatal illness said, “Allah cursed Jews and Christians because they took their Prophets’ graves as places for praying.’”
Bukhari:V5B59N727 “When Allah’s Apostle became seriously sick, he started covering his face with a woolen sheet. When he felt short of breath, he removed it, and said, ‘That is so! Allah’s curse be on Jews and Christians.’”
Bukhari:V4B55N607 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘On the night of my Ascension to Heaven, I saw Jesus with a red face as if he had just come out of a bathroom. And I resemble Abraham more than any of his offspring.’”
Qur’an 2:111 “They say: ‘None shall enter Paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian.’ Those are their (vain) desires. Say: ‘Produce your proof if you are truthful.’ Nay, whoever submits His face to Allah and surrenders, he will get his reward; on such shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. The Jews say: ‘The Christians follow nothing; and the Christians say: ‘the Jews follow nothing (true);’ Yet they (profess to) recite the (same) Scripture Book. But Allah will judge between them in their quarrel.”
Qur’an 9:30 “The Jews call Uzair the son of Allah, and the Christians say that the Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying from their mouths; they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah’s (Himself) fights against them, cursing them, damning and destroying them. How perverse are they!”
Qur’an 9:31 “They (Jews and Christians) consider their rabbis and monks to be gods besides Allah. They also took their Lord Messiah to be a god but they were commanded (in the Taurat and Injeel) to worship only One Ilah (God). There is no ilah (god) but He. Too holy is He for the partners they associate (with Him).”
Qur’an 9:34 “Believers, there are many (Christian) monks and (Jewish) rabbis who in falsehood devour the wealth of mankind and hinder (men) from the way of Allah. And there are those who bury gold and silver and spend it not in Allah’s Cause. (Muhammad) announce unto them tidings of a painful torture. On the Day [of Doom] heat will be produced out of that (wealth) in the Fire of Hell. It will be branded on their foreheads, their flanks, and their backs. ‘This is the (treasure) which you hoarded for yourselves: now taste it!’”
Qur’an 2:116 “They say: ‘Allah hath begotten a son: glory be to Him.’ Nay, to Him belongs all that is in heavens and on earth: All are subservient and obedient to Him.”
Qur’an 2:145 “Even if you were to bring to the people of the Scripture Book all the Signs, they would not follow Your Qiblah; nor are you going to follow their Qiblah; nor indeed will they follow each other’s Qiblah.”
Qur’an 2:146 “The People of the Book, unto whom We gave the Scripture, know/recognize this revelation/him as they know/recognize their own sons; But lo! a party of them knowingly conceals truth.”
February 26th, 2007 at 11:37 pmThat’s about 1/2 the relevent verses. I’ll save the other half for a rainy day.
February 26th, 2007 at 11:38 pmPace needs to tell that to Bush boy’s face. The Pentagon cannot attack Iran with Iraq and Afghanistan bleeding the US military dry.
February 26th, 2007 at 11:45 pmKill People Who Don’t Listen to Priests
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
Kill Witches
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
Kill Homosexuals
“If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.” (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
Kill Fortunetellers
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
Death for Hitting Dad
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)
Death for Cursing Parents
1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
Death for Adultery
If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
Death for Fornication
A priest’s daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)
Death to Followers of Other Religions
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
Kill Nonbelievers
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
Kill False Prophets
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, “You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord.” When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)
Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. “The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.” (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)
Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night
But if this charge is true (that she wasn’t a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father’s house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)
Kill Followers of Other Religions.
1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)
Death for Blasphemy
One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD’s name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother’s name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD’s will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, “Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD’s name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD’s name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)
Kill False Prophets
1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, ‘Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,’ do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)
2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.’ You may wonder, ‘How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?’ If the prophet predicts something in the LORD’s name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)
Infidels and Gays Should Die
So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other’s bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God’s death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)
February 26th, 2007 at 11:45 pmMurder in the Bible
The act of murder is rampant in the Bible. In much of the Bible, especially the Old Testament, there are laws that command that people be killed for absurd reasons such as working on the Sabbath, being gay, cursing your parents, or not being a virgin on your wedding night. In addition to these crazy and immoral laws, there are plenty of examples of God’s irrationality by his direct killing of many people for reasons that defy any rational explanation such as killing children who make fun of bald people, and the killing of a man who tried to keep the ark of God from falling during transport. There are also countless examples of mass murders commanded by God, including the murder of women, infants, and children.
The following passages are a very small percentage of the total passages approving of murder in the Bible. They are divided here into three parts: 1) Capital Punishment Crimes, 2) God’s Murders for Stupid Reasons, 3) Murdering Children, and 4) Miscellaneous Murders. This list is long, but it barely scratches the surface of all the murders approved of in the Bible.
1) Capital Punishment Crimes:
Kill People Who Don’t Listen to Priests
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
Kill Witches
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
Kill Homosexuals
“If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.” (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
Kill Fortunetellers
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
Death for Hitting Dad
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)
Death for Cursing Parents
1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
Death for Adultery
If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
Death for Fornication
A priest’s daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)
Death to Followers of Other Religions
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
Kill Nonbelievers
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
Kill False Prophets
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, “You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord.” When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)
Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. “The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.” (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)
Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night
But if this charge is true (that she wasn’t a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father’s house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)
Kill Followers of Other Religions.
1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)
Death for Blasphemy
One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD’s name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother’s name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD’s will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, “Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD’s name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD’s name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)
Kill False Prophets
1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, ‘Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,’ do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)
2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.’ You may wonder, ‘How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?’ If the prophet predicts something in the LORD’s name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)
Infidels and Gays Should Die
So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other’s bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God’s death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)
Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle
For the LORD had said to Moses, ‘Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.’ (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)
Kill People for Working on the Sabbath
The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: ‘Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.’ (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)
2) God’s Murders for Stupid Reasons:
Kill Brats
From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. “Go up baldhead,” they shouted, “go up baldhead!” The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)
God Kills the Curious
And he smote of the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of Jehovah, he smote of the people seventy men, `and’ fifty thousand men; and the people mourned, because Jehovah had smitten the people with a great slaughter. And the men of Beth-shemesh said, Who is able to stand before Jehovah, this holy God? and to whom shall he go up from us? (1Samuel 6:19-20 ASV)
Killed by a Lion
Meanwhile, the LORD instructed one of the group of prophets to say to another man, “Strike me!” But the man refused to strike the prophet. Then the prophet told him, “Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me.” And sure enough, when he had gone, a lion attacked and killed him. (1 Kings 20:35-36 NLT)
Killing the Good Samaritan
The ark of God was placed on a new cart and taken away from the house of Abinadab on the hill. Uzzah and Ahio, sons of Abinadab guided the cart, with Ahio walking before it, while David and all the Israelites made merry before the Lord with all their strength, with singing and with citharas, harps, tambourines, sistrums, and cymbals.
When they came to the threshing floor of Nodan, Uzzah reached out his hand to the ark of God to steady it, for the oxen were making it tip. But the Lord was angry with Uzzah; God struck him on that spot, and he died there before God. (2 Samuel 6:3-7 NAB)
February 26th, 2007 at 11:46 pm3) Murdering Children
Kill Sons of Sinners
Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)
God Will Kill Children
The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived. Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you. It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone. I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre. But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered.” O LORD, what should I request for your people? I will ask for wombs that don’t give birth and breasts that give no milk. The LORD says, “All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them. I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions. I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels. The people of Israel are stricken. Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit. And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children.” (Hosea 9:11-16 NLT)
Kill Men, Women, and Children
“Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, “Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple.” So they began by killing the seventy leaders. “Defile the Temple!” the LORD commanded. “Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!” So they went throughout the city and did as they were told.” (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)
God Kills all the First Born of Egypt
And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed. Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died. (Exodus 12:29-30 NLT)
Kill Old Men and Young Women
“You are my battle-ax and sword,” says the LORD. “With you I will shatter nations and destroy many kingdoms. With you I will shatter armies, destroying the horse and rider, the chariot and charioteer. With you I will shatter men and women, old people and children, young men and maidens. With you I will shatter shepherds and flocks, farmers and oxen, captains and rulers. “As you watch, I will repay Babylon and the people of Babylonia for all the wrong they have done to my people in Jerusalem,” says the LORD. “Look, O mighty mountain, destroyer of the earth! I am your enemy,” says the LORD. “I will raise my fist against you, to roll you down from the heights. When I am finished, you will be nothing but a heap of rubble. You will be desolate forever. Even your stones will never again be used for building. You will be completely wiped out,” says the LORD. (Jeremiah 51:20-26)
(Note that after God promises the Israelites a victory against Babylon, the Israelites actually get their butts kicked by them in the next chapter. So much for an all-knowing and all-powerful God.)
God Will Kill the C