ThinkFast: February 26, 2007
ThinkFast: February 26, 2007
President Bush has sent “an unusually tough message to one of his most important allies,” Pakistan President Gen. Pervez Musharraf. But the “tough message” is about what others will do: Bush has warned “that the newly Democratic Congress could cut aid to his country unless his forces become far more aggressive in hunting down operatives with Al Qaeda.”
200,000: Number of U.S. veterans who are homeless, including approximately 500-1,000 who have served in Iraq and Afghanistan.
The Senate will begin debate today on a binding resolution to rescind the 2002 Iraq resolution granting Bush war authority. Bob Novak reports that Sens. Norm Coleman (R-MN) and Chuck Hagel (R-NE) will oppose the resolution, while Gordon Smith (R-OR) indicated he might favor it.
A 2002 study that “suggested adult stem cells might be as useful as embryonic ones was flawed and its conclusions may be wrong, a scientific panel says.” The study is frequently cited by conservatives to justify opposition to embryonic stem cell research.
Escalation update: “U.S. troops, Iraqi soldiers and officials, and Baghdad residents say the plan is hampered because security forces cannot identify, let alone apprehend, the elusive perpetrators of the violence. … ‘I don’t know who I’m fighting most of the time,’ said Staff Sgt. Joseph Lopez.’”
Lawmakers have continued to take trips paid for by outside groups since the House voted last month to restrict who can pay for such travel. “House travel records show that 19 members since Jan. 5 have accepted airfare, meals and lodging from special interests, including groups that employ lobbyists.”
Governors in Washington at the National Governors Association meeting warned that President Bush’s escalation in Iraq will put an unbearable burden on an already overstretched Guard and Reserve. “Currently, we don’t have the manpower or the equipment to perform that dual role” of responding to both state and federal needs, said Gov. Michael F. Easley (D-NC).
“The Rev. Al Sharpton, the prominent civil rights activist, is descended from a slave owned by relatives of the late senator and one-time segregationist Strom Thurmond, a genealogical study released Sunday reported.” Sharpton said the news was “probably the most shocking thing of my life.”
TXU Corp., Texas’ largest electricity producer, has agreed to be sold to a group of private-equity firms in what could be the largest private buyout in U.S. corporate history. Environmentalists are hailing the buyout, since the prospective new owners say they will cancel eight of 11 proposed coal plants and back national legislation for mandatory reduction in global warming pollution.
And finally: Nuts over “truck nutz.” A Maryland lawmaker has proposed legislation to ban the “outsized plastic testicles that truckers dangle from the trailer hitches of their pickups.” Said delegate LeRoy E. Myers, “I think it’s a pretty serious problem. You have body parts hanging from the hitches of cars. We’ve crossed a line.” His bill would prohibit motorists from displaying anything resembling or depicting “anatomically correct” or “less than completely and opaquely covered” human or animal genitals. The offense would carry a penalty.
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The Senate will begin debate today on a binding resolution to rescind the 2002 Iraq resolution granting Bush war authority.
About time. Pity that there’s no way the supporters of this resolution can hope to get this passed, thanks to the obstructionist Repukes. They’d rather let Chimpy set the world on fire than admit they were wrong.
February 26th, 2007 at 9:06 amGeorge Takei (Mr Sulu) video response to Tim “I Hate Gay People” Hardaway.
http://www.alternet.org/blogs/video/48423/
“i love sweaty basketball players”
February 26th, 2007 at 9:08 amEscalation update: “U.S. troops, Iraqi soldiers and officials, and Baghdad residents say the plan is hampered because security forces cannot identify, let alone apprehend, the elusive perpetrators of the violence. … ‘I don’t know who I’m fighting most of the time,’ said Staff Sgt. Joseph Lopez.’â€
Par for the course in a guerrilla war. This is why we lost VietNam, why the Soviets lost Afghanistan, and why we are doomed to failure in Iraq.
February 26th, 2007 at 9:09 amPresident Bush’s escalation in Iraq will put an unbearable burden on an already overstretched Guard and Reserve…
Meanwhile, at Walter Reed, we’re putting an unbearable burden on our young soldier’s rehabilitation. Kylie, still trying to cover things up, speaks as a HazMat team walks by in Building #18. Funds are being cut in Bush’s budget for VA care & military benefits.
America, this administration only supports our troops as they’re sent to die. Long term care & psychological services are but an afterthought. As close as the Bush Boys come to worrying about this is the cost.
Remember this as they beat the war drums for Iran…
February 26th, 2007 at 9:09 amTHEY DON’T CARE!
Who would believe it? The Bush Government, with the complicity of Blair, invented a series of excuses, downright lies in reality, justifying an illegal invasion of Iraq. Now it appears Bush is intent on trying the same scam in regards to Iran. Accusing Iran of developing nuclear weapon, without the slightest evidence, indeed just this week the U.N. called U.S. data on Iran’s nuclear aims unreliable and Mohamed ElBaradei, who heads the International Atomic Energy Agency said Iran bomb is 10 years away. The truth of course behind both the illegal invasion of Iraq and the planned attack on Iran is that its all about oil, the control of oil resources in the Middle East. Iraq in 2001 switched from selling oil in US dollars and its not a coincidence that Iran did the same a few months ago. These acts threatened United States world hegomony for which is necessary to preserve the US dollar as the worlds number one reserve currency. Theres no way the UN Security Council will sanction an attack on Iran, China and Russia will undoubtly veto any attempt, but the problem is the USA now has its own version of International Law which allows for concentration camps, collective punishment, the deliberate targeting of civilians and invading other nations. The world is now facing the biggest danger since 1939 and the US Presidents sanity has to be in question. Time perhaps for the European Union to take a stand, the UK of course is still hogtied with a poodle for Prime Minister.
February 26th, 2007 at 9:10 amI love way Bush holds a “big emergency” drill and then we find out (to no surprise) that we don’t have the manpower to help in case of an emergency. This country is really fucked : we are spending so much fucking money on 2 phoney baloney wars. God help us.
February 26th, 2007 at 9:11 amOil Law analysed on Democracy Now
RAED JARRAR:”There are three major points. Financially, it legalizes very unfair types of contracts that will put Iraq in very long-term contracts that can go up to thirty-five years and cause the loss of hundreds of billions of dollars from Iraqis for no cause. Secondly, Iraq will not be capable of controlling the levels of production, which means that Iraq cannot be a part of OPEC anymore. And Iraq will have this very complicated institution called the Federal Oil and Gas Council, that will have representatives from the foreign oil companies on the board of it, so representatives from, let’s say, ExxonMobil and Shell and British Petroleum will be on the federal board of Iraq approving their own contracts. And the third point is the point about keeping Iraq’s unity. The law will authorize all of the regional and small provinces’ authorities. It will give them the final say to deal with the oil, instead of giving this final say to central federal government, so it will open the doors for splitting Iraq into three regions or even maybe three states in the very near future… The [Federal] council just has the authority to veto what the regional and provincial authorities decide. So, you can see that [as] this council is kind of controlled by foreign companies, the possibilities of the council vetoing what’s happening on the regional level will be very small.”
February 26th, 2007 at 9:11 amGeorge Bush, ever the coward.
February 26th, 2007 at 9:11 am‘I don’t know who I’m fighting most of the time,’
Thats the problem with devide and conquer when they all look the same , Iraqis are playing the game as good as the US
February 26th, 2007 at 9:13 amYou should make clear that the Truck Nutz fascist is a GOPper. Just another GOPper with sexual frustration, of course.
February 26th, 2007 at 9:16 amHmm…no trolls yet. They must have all worn themselves out bitching about Al Gore’s Academy Award win last night. ^_^
February 26th, 2007 at 9:29 amA Maryland lawmaker has proposed legislation to ban the “outsized plastic testicles that truckers dangle from the trailer hitches of their pickups.â€
How does he know they are outsized?
February 26th, 2007 at 9:34 amBush has warned “that the newly Democratic Congress could cut aid to his country unless his forces become far more aggressive in hunting down operatives with Al Qaeda.â€
Ha! Ha! Ha! Bush has now unwittingly painted the Democrats as “tough on terror”. After this one, it will be hard for the GOPers to accuse the Democrats of serving the agenda of Al-Qaeda.
February 26th, 2007 at 9:37 amMichael Lee, you do realize, don’t you, that it wasn’t just the U.S. and U.K. that believed Hussein had WMD’s? That every intelligence organization that investigated thought the same thing? (France, Russia, etc) also believed that Hussein had WMD’s. So if Pres. Bush lied to us, then all the other intelligence agencies and all the other countries IN THE WORLD also lied.
February 26th, 2007 at 9:38 amDale sez:
That’s a lie.
February 26th, 2007 at 9:46 amDale got links? Or just Rush Limpballs talking points? Cuz I don’t believe any other countries other than US/UK tried to prove their point for going to war, or against it as the case may be. I didn’t see France and Russia providing false stories about Aluminum tubes, yellow cake, showing us photos of chemical labs that we can’t find later..
February 26th, 2007 at 9:52 amSo Bush is using the Democratic majority in Congress to threaten Pakistan?
February 26th, 2007 at 9:54 amWhat about his own pair of shrunken cojones?
Oh, yeah.
Never mind.
So Bush is telling Musharaff and the world that Bush himself doesn’t mind Al Qaeda and the Taliban using Pakistan to hide and resupply, but that damn Democrat Congress is going to make Bush and the Republicans do something about it.
George W. Bush=soft on terrorists.
-GSD
February 26th, 2007 at 9:54 amThis is patently untrue: That other intel agencies thought that Hussein had WMD’s; in fact, quite the reverse is actually the truth. NO OTHER country endorsed an invasion even if they ’suspected’ that Saddam MIGHT have WMD’s which makes it all the more heinous that we would forge ahead against conventional wisdom even in the face of the “potential” for WMD’s. Since there were no WMD’s, then is Dale suggesting that all of the intel agencies across the world hyperbolized and fantasized about them?? Surely he jests!
Re: Escalation and “WHO IS MY ENEMY???” – a huge “duh” to anyone who believes that our military can tell the enemy from the colleague in Iraq. However, that’s precisely what a “civil war” looks like – (Duh!). Our military is essentially playing a game of “monkey in the middle” just so our imperial emperor can attempt to “save face” albeit a moot point since any “face” he may have ever had is totally gone now….along with any shred of humanity, dignity, or honesty.
February 26th, 2007 at 9:54 amBUSH LIED – THOUSANDS DIED (AND CONTINUE TO DIE). Where does this mania end???
February 26th, 2007 at 9:55 amThere have been reports of progress (we,ve heard that many time before) but I don’t know what matrix they are using. February will be the most deadly of the war for civilians killed and over 70 Americans have died in battle. In fact, over 350 Americans have been killed since the November election. The only surge we are seeing is in the number being killed.
February 26th, 2007 at 9:56 amTripMaster Monkey at #3
Excellent observation. NPR had reported that American forces have now encountered children fighting among the insurgents, who should more correctly be labeled resistance fighters. The Iraqis, as did the Vietnamese, will use as many men, women and children as they can in order to drive the invader, the United States, from their soil. The Johns Hopkins study has found that of those approximately 700,000 Iraqis who have died since the U.S. invasion of their country, half of them have been under the age of 16. The day cannot come soon enough when Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, et al, will be tried for war crimes and crimes against humanity and crimes against peace with one of the witnesses for the prosecution against those people being Lt. Ehren Watada.
February 26th, 2007 at 9:56 amSo if Pres. Bush lied to us, then all the other intelligence agencies and all the other countries IN THE WORLD also lied.
Comment by Dale
Nope. A lot of countries opposed the intervention, even the Pope did. But if it makes you feel happy about how they f*cked up big time, so be it. I guess we can explain those 600,000 civilians that it was a global mistake. They should feel better.
Now, everyone with a three digit IQ knew that the invasion was to protect the economic interests of US, cuz thats what all US invasions are for.
February 26th, 2007 at 9:57 amDale,
Please provide support for your assertion that “intelligence organization that investigated thought the same thing? (France, Russia, etc) also believed that Hussein had WMD’s”. The administration did not say that they “thought” there were WMDs; they stated unequivocatingly that Iraq had them. Did any other government say so as well?
So, to the question, “So if Pres. Bush lied to us, then all the other intelligence agencies and all the other countries IN THE WORLD also lied.”, the answer is “Yes! as has been amply proven.”
How do you like being lied to?
February 26th, 2007 at 9:58 amPresident Bush has sent “an unusually tough message to one of his most important allies,†Pakistan President Gen. Pervez Musharraf. But the “tough message†is about what others will do: Bush has warned “that the newly Democratic Congress could cut aid to his country unless his forces become far more aggressive in hunting down operatives with Al Qaeda.â€
GWB is a dirty low-down coward.
February 26th, 2007 at 9:58 am#15, here.
February 26th, 2007 at 9:58 am200,000: Number of U.S. veterans who are homeless, including approximately 500-1,000 who have served in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Unforgiveable.
February 26th, 2007 at 9:58 am(France, Russia, etc) also believed that Hussein had WMD’s.
February 26th, 2007 at 9:59 amComment by Dale — February 26, 2007 @ 9:38 am
No, Dale. (France, Russia, et al.) believed that the UN inspectors were doing their jobs, which was investigating possible weapon plants, and preventing weapons from being produced. Remember Freedom Fries, a bogus slam against France for not supporting an engagement with Iraq? Guess what, the Frenchies were right (Man, that’s gotta just bite your ass to no end, eh?)
Escalation update: “U.S. troops, Iraqi soldiers and officials, and Baghdad residents say the plan is hampered because security forces cannot identify, let alone apprehend, the elusive perpetrators of the violence. … ‘I don’t know who I’m fighting most of the time,’ said Staff Sgt. Joseph Lopez.’â€
That’s exactly why they shouldn’t be there.
February 26th, 2007 at 9:59 am“The Rev. Al Sharpton, the prominent civil rights activist, is descended from a slave owned by relatives of the late senator and one-time segregationist Strom Thurmond, a genealogical study released Sunday reported.†Sharpton said the news was “probably the most shocking thing of my life.â€
Al should take a nice potato sald to the next family reunion. And a camera. Heh.
February 26th, 2007 at 10:00 amNuts over “truck nutz.†A Maryland lawmaker has proposed legislation to ban the “outsized plastic testicles that truckers dangle from the trailer hitches of their pickups.â€
These must not have made it to Idaho yet, because I haven’t seen them. Of course, I’m not looking for them either.
Outsized compared to whom?
February 26th, 2007 at 10:02 am200,000: Number of U.S. veterans who are homeless, including approximately 500-1,000 who have served in Iraq and Afghanistan.
This is unacceptable!
Gee, how long before an insignificant right wing troll comes along with data about how many veterans were homeless during the Clinton years?
February 26th, 2007 at 10:02 amUh, Veritas, read your own statement again. The issue of whether or not other intel agencies believed Hussein to have WMD’s is a SEPARATE ISSUE from whether or not they supported an invasion.
#22, Juan, like others, you’re confusing the two issues. They are two separate issues, people. A particular country (France, Germany, Russia, China) may have believed that Hussein possessed WMD’s, but still did not believe an invasion was the correct course. Juan, if you can’t understand this, then you’d better check where your decimal point is in your IQ.
February 26th, 2007 at 10:03 amGee, how long before an insignificant right wing troll comes along with data about how many veterans were homeless during the Clinton years?
Comment by DRxJ
Or that other intelligence agencies lied about it too…
February 26th, 2007 at 10:04 amNorman Podhoretz
Hudson Institute: Senior fellow
Commentary: Editor-at-large
Project for the New American Century: Signatory
Committee on the Present Danger: Co-founder
Committee for the Free World: Co-founder
Dale? This is your source?
February 26th, 2007 at 10:04 amBWAHAHAHAHAH!
Michael Lee sez:
This is a lie.
February 26th, 2007 at 10:04 amAh, so the vast right wing conspiracy extends to all the major countries? Got it, thanks.
February 26th, 2007 at 10:05 am#25, Dale.
February 26th, 2007 at 10:06 amYour link was an editorial, not an article providing facts.
Also, here is some info regarding the author of your link
“Podhoretz and his spouse, Midge Decter, a polemical powerhouse in her own right, created a formidable political team in the 1970s as they deserted the Democratic Party, and then, as leaders of the Committee on the Present Danger — like (Project for the New American Century) PNAC a coalition of mainly Jewish, neo-conservatives and more traditional right-wing hawks like Defence Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld – helped lay the foreign-policy foundation for the rise of Ronald Reagan. After Reagan’s victory, Decter and Rumsfeld co-chaired the international offshoot of the committee, called the Coalition for the Free World.
No, no biased there in that editiorial.
NEXT!
Chimpeachment, NOW!
February 26th, 2007 at 10:09 amAnd finally: Nuts over “truck nutz.†A Maryland lawmaker has proposed legislation to ban the “outsized plastic testicles that truckers dangle from the trailer hitches of their pickups.†Said delegate LeRoy E. Myers, “I think it’s a pretty serious problem. You have body parts hanging from the hitches of cars. We’ve crossed a line.†His bill would prohibit motorists from displaying anything resembling or depicting “anatomically correct†or “less than completely and opaquely covered†human or animal genitals. The offense would carry a penalty.
Awe c’mon, can’t let a guy display a big plastic set of balls for all the kids to see? We have lots of em’ here in Arizona.
February 26th, 2007 at 10:11 amThe impossible job of presiding over Iraq’s “government” has taken it’s toll:
Time for the Cheney-external-baboon-heart transplant…
February 26th, 2007 at 10:13 amJuan, if you can’t understand this, then you’d better check where your decimal point is in your IQ.
Comment by Dale
You havent proved anything besides that lame, biased editorial, and I should care about what you say? You said those countries MAY HAVE BELIEVED as a support for your STRONG assertion that other countries lied about WMDs. You are clueless.
February 26th, 2007 at 10:17 amJust checking to see if I can still post…my last five comments hve failed to post.
February 26th, 2007 at 10:21 amyeah, yeah, yeah, the usual whining about sources. Okay, what about a source from a un report? Try this:
The discovery of a number of 122 mm chemical rocket warheads in a bunker at a storage depot 170 km southwest of Baghdad was much publicized. This was a relatively new bunker and therefore the rockets must have been moved there in the past few years, at a time when Iraq should not have had such munitions.
The investigation of these rockets is still proceeding. Iraq states that they were overlooked from 1991 from a batch of some 2,000 that were stored there during the Gulf War. This could be the case. They could also be the tip of a submerged iceberg. The discovery of a few rockets does not resolve but rather points to the issue of several thousands of chemical rockets that are unaccounted for.
This is the same thing quoted in the article I referenced earlier. A few points to consider:
1. This is a UN report by Dr. Hans Blix, not a “commentary”.
2. In the report, Dr. Blix doesn’t draw any conclusions, but points out concerns about issues of missing rockets, missing growth media (enough to make 5,000 litres of concentrated anthrax).
3. He also shows concern about the level of cooperation he’s receiving.
This report was received and approved the the U.N., which means they agreed with it.
Whine and moan all you want about ‘Bush lied, people died’. But the fact remains that at the start of the Iraqi War, countries all over the world believed that Hussein could have WMD’s, whether or not they agreed on the war itself.
February 26th, 2007 at 10:21 amStill trying to post this link to refute Dale’s specious nonsense.
Let’s try again:
http://www.isis-online.org/publications/iraq/usallieswmd.html
February 26th, 2007 at 10:27 amJust checking to see if I can still post…my last five comments hve failed to post.
Comment by TripMaster Monkey
Well, stop being such a potty mouth. My language is always pristine, and my comments always come up.
Heh. Yeah, right…. :-)
February 26th, 2007 at 10:29 amZooey,
My last five comments contained no profanity of any sort. They did however, contain a link to a page refuting Dale’s ridiculous assertions that the rest of the world believed that Iraq had WMDs as fervently as the U.S. and Britain pretended to. For some odd reason, it consistently fails to post. :(
February 26th, 2007 at 10:32 amGood job, Dale. Now you can sleep at night.
February 26th, 2007 at 10:32 amWhine and moan all you want about ‘Bush lied, people died’. But the fact remains that at the start of the Iraqi War, countries all over the world believed that Hussein could have WMD’s, whether or not they agreed on the war itself.
Comment by Dale — February 26, 2007
And your posting syle could indicate you’re a limp-wristed closest homosexual. Yet I offer no proof of such claim! Nor does this report offer proof of WMD.
Your link also provides a request for continued inspections from the UN, as they were successful in investigating those non-existent WMD.
February 26th, 2007 at 10:33 amNEXT!
#42 Who cares what other intel agencies thought or didn’t think anyway? What matters is that it’s common knowledge in THIS country that we were lied to about WMD’s – that’s all that really matters.
If your case that other intel agencies suspected that he had WMD’s, then their mantra about NOT invading becomes even more of a moral issue – that this country would not listen to the conventional wisdom of all other countries on the planet that, even if the potential WAS there, we went and invaded the oil wells (oops! did it again!)…..ahem….that is, we invaded the country of a dictator in order to bring “democracy” to it’s people (oops! that’s not really it…I did it again!)…Wow….what was it then?? What was the real reason for invading a sovereign country?? Who knows?? Who’s on first?? No, it’s What’s on first??
Who cares, troll??
February 26th, 2007 at 10:37 am#22 Now, everyone with a three digit IQ knew that the invasion was to protect the economic interests of US, cuz thats what all US invasions are for.
The invasion was for a select few in the U.S. And a few, as well, of money and power in other countries.
February 26th, 2007 at 10:38 amHow many countries, “May have believed” our lies about Iraqi WMD based upon the assumption that American leaders would not issue unequivocal statements without iron-clad proof.
We entrust our government with the power to keep secrets from us (in the form of classified information). For the government to then lie about the contents of that information is absolutely unacceptable.
From Secretary Rumsfeld Remarks on ABC “This Week with George Stephanopoulos”
March 30, 2003 11:30 AM EDT
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Finally, weapons of mass destruction. Key goal of the military campaign is finding those weapons of mass destruction. None have been found yet. There was a raid on the Answar Al-Islam Camp up in the north last night. A lot of people expected to find ricin there. None was found. How big of a problem is that? And is it curious to you that given how much control U.S. and coalition forces now have in the country, they haven’t found any weapons of mass destruction?
SEC. RUMSFELD: Not at all. If you think — let me take that, both pieces — the area in the south and the west and the north that coalition forces control is substantial. It happens not to be the area where weapons of mass destruction were dispersed. We know where they are. They’re in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat.
“WE KNOW WHERE THEY ARE.” – this was a lie.
February 26th, 2007 at 10:38 amFor some odd reason, it consistently fails to post. :(
Comment by TripMaster Monkey
Aw c’mon, you know I was having fun at your expense — as usual. I’ve never known you to use naughty words.
TP must have their filter tweaked extra high this morning.
February 26th, 2007 at 10:40 amTP staff:
Could you please explain why I cannot seem to post a comment containing a URL? It makes it extremely difficult to argue a case if you’re thus prohibited from providing any corroborating evidence.
February 26th, 2007 at 10:41 amAnd your posting syle could indicate you’re a limp-wristed closest homosexual. Yet I offer no proof of such claim! Nor does this report offer proof of WMD.
Comment by DRxJ
Dale is a limp-wristed closet homosexual? I had no idea!
February 26th, 2007 at 10:42 amWow…suddenly, all my posts containing the verboten link have suddenly appeared…
Post #15 says that it posted at 9:46 am, but this is not true, as it appeared only in the last minute.
TP staff, if this behavior is not intentional, this is a problem you really need to address.
In the meantime, Dale, I refer you to post #15.
February 26th, 2007 at 10:45 am(disclaimer regarding my post #51)
I have no idea what sexual preference Dale has, and in no way was I slammin’ “limp wristed homosexuals”, I just know most Neocons heavily fear gays, and this would be a great post to emphasis my point of using the word could as a basis for war.
(Man, sometimes being politcally correct sux!!!)
February 26th, 2007 at 10:45 amTMM,
Looks like they’re re-posting older posts?
Try putting the url in a link. The spam filter still looks there, but I always use this feature and haven’t had trouble (yet).
February 26th, 2007 at 10:46 amZooey sez:
As DRxJ observed, his posting style is a dead giveaway. All reputable authorities are in agreement on this issue. ^_^
February 26th, 2007 at 10:47 amand one more.
I would also point out that many governments that chose not to support this war — certainly, the French president, [Jacques] Chirac, as I recall in April of last year, referred to Iraq’s possession of WMD.
The Germans certainly — the intelligence service believed that there were WMD.
This is coming from CNN (certainly not a right-wing news source); a transcript of David Kay speaking to the Senate Armed Services Committee in 2004. David Kay, you may remember, was the U.S. chief weapons inspector during and immediately after the invasion.
Another one, and you’ll love this one. In an interview with Time magazine, Pres. Chirac (France) was asked in Feb 2003
“Are there nuclear arms in Iraq? I don’t think so. Are there other weapons of mass destruction? That’s probable. We have to find and destroy them. “
So a couple of months before the invasion, the President of France stated in an interview with Time magazine that Iraq probably had other WMD’s (though not nukes). He just disagreed with how much of a threat Iraq was.
So, did Pres. Bush lie? If so, then so did Pres. Chirac, and the heads of state of many, many other countries.
And if you people STILL believe that Pres Bush was the only one who believed that Iraq had WMD’s, then BDS has really taken hold.
February 26th, 2007 at 10:49 amAs DRxJ observed, his posting style is a dead giveaway. All reputable authorities are in agreement on this issue. ^_^
Comment by TripMaster Monkey
As long as there is absolutely no evidence, I’ll believe it. :-D
February 26th, 2007 at 10:52 amGee, isn’t it something… the way you’re trying to denigrate me is to attack my sexual preference? And this is supposed to be a site for progressives?
Whats the matter… starting to wonder about the whole “Bush lied, people died” b.s.?
February 26th, 2007 at 10:52 am(Man, sometimes being politcally correct sux!!!)
Comment by DRxJ
We know you’re joking, DRxJ. :)
February 26th, 2007 at 10:53 amGee, isn’t it something… the way you’re trying to denigrate me is to attack my sexual preference? And this is supposed to be a site for progressives?
Comment by Dale
He was JOKING — and making a valid point.
February 26th, 2007 at 10:54 amDale,
Wake up you stupid fool, Iraq is about oil. Always has been, always will be. And until the day the oil is gone the Iraqi people will be fighting for oil that belongs to them. Do a little research on Iraq and Iran converting to the Euro (because the dollar is losing so much value). Google “peak oil” while you’re at it.
Now lets switch gears a bit, Iran wants nuclear power, and yes probably nuclear weapons, after all they have lots of oil too. Why does Iran want to build nuclear power? Because the oil is running out fast. Why do they want nuclear weapons? The same reason all other members of the exclusive club do, it keeps people from screwing with you.
Now to the final member of the Axis of Evil, N. Korea, why did we not invade them 4 years ago? As we see now, they really have WMD’s. But they don’t have oil..
Dale getting the connections here? 1 + 1 = 2 – simple math even GOP’ers can handle it.
But Dale just keep listening to your corporate masters at WSJ, Faux News, Rush Limpballs, etc.
February 26th, 2007 at 10:57 amBTW, yesterday was katy’s birthday — everyone wish her a belated Happy Birthday!
Just don’t tell her I told you. :)
February 26th, 2007 at 11:02 amGee, isn’t it something… the way you’re trying to denigrate me is to attack my sexual preference?
Comment by Dale — February 26, 2007 @ 10:52 am
Even with my disclaimer, I still hit a nerve with Dale! SWEET!!!
February 26th, 2007 at 11:02 amNotice he never responded to the rest of my posts, just focused in on the alternative life-style part. Typical!
My work here is done!
Happy B~day miss Katy!!!
February 26th, 2007 at 11:03 am#62, Prisoner, I was *not* addressing whether or not Bush wanted Iraq’s oil. I was addressing the often-stated, but incorrect, “Bush lied people died” crap. I posted links to articles in major mainstream outlets (plus from the U.N.) showing that others, NOT JUST PRES. BUSH, believed that Iraq may have WMD’s. One of those ‘others’ I specifically posted was Pres. Chirac. He stated, just a month or so before the invasion, that he thinks it’s probably that Iraq has WMD’s.
But nice try in trying to change the subject. Now if you’ll excuse me, I have to go report in to my masters at CNN, Times, and the U.N.
February 26th, 2007 at 11:05 amLet’s see.
February 26th, 2007 at 11:06 amI think my neighbor is harboring HAZMAT in his garage.
Several of my other neighbors have told me they think so too.
So why did the cops only arrest me after I burned the bad neighbors house down?
Shouldn’t they have arrested all the other neighbors who didn’t burn the house down>? They thought he probably had HAZMAT too…waaah
Gee, DRxJ, I think #57 is a pretty good response. Whatsa matter, not see it?
February 26th, 2007 at 11:06 am#14 Dale
Michael Lee, you do realize, don’t you, that it wasn’t just the U.S. and U.K. that believed Hussein had WMD’s? That every intelligence organization that investigated thought the same thing? (France, Russia, etc) also believed that Hussein had WMD’s. So if Pres. Bush lied to us, then all the other intelligence agencies and all the other countries IN THE WORLD also lied.
Frequently repeating bullshit like that doesn’t make it any less bullshit. So no, you’re wrong. Other countries’ intelligence agencies, we now know, tried to warn the U.S. off of using the crappy sources that Feith and the OSP were peddling, but to no avail.
Oh, what’s this here?:
Germany: CIA knew ‘Curveball’ was not trustworthy
February 26th, 2007 at 11:10 amPresident Bush has sent “an unusually tough message to one of his most important allies,†Pakistan President Gen. Pervez Musharraf.
Thats the same Gen. Pervez Musharraf who yesterday said he does not recognise isreal …… mmmmm
February 26th, 2007 at 11:10 amDale, let me highlight the same Time article you linked to:
But you seem willing to put the onus on inspectors to find arms rather than on Saddam to declare what he’s got. Are there nuclear arms in Iraq? I don’t think so. Are there other weapons of mass destruction? That’s probable. We have to find and destroy them. In its current situation, does Iraq—controlled and inspected as it is—pose a clear and present danger to the region? I don’t believe so. Given that, I prefer to continue along the path laid out by the Security Council. Then we’ll see.
this is no way indicates that Chirac knew without a doubt, that Saddam had WMD. It also indicates that Chirac believed Saddam posed no threat.
By the way….
February 26th, 2007 at 11:13 amcould those weapons happened to have been the tons of ammunition discarded by the Iraqi Army, and never confiscated by the US????
Tobey!
February 26th, 2007 at 11:14 amI’m amazed that General Strongman Guy Musharref and I agree on something!
DRxJ, try re-reading my comments. I never said that any country knew WITHOUT A DOUBT that Iraq had WMD’s; I said that other countries BELIEVED that fact.
And if other countries believed that (whether or not they believed that Saddam was a threat) then the assertion that “Bush lied, people died” is incorrect.
February 26th, 2007 at 11:17 amA belated Happy Birthday, Lady Katy..Blessings
February 26th, 2007 at 11:20 amDubya Dunce Decider Despot Dictator go ahead and cut off financial aid to Pakistan and they become your new enemy with nukes. Iran is no threat to Israel, but a militent Pakistan with nukes would be a threat to them.
February 26th, 2007 at 11:27 amDale,
February 26th, 2007 at 11:30 amHere is snipet of the link provided by chimpeach:
Five top German intelligence officers say that the Bush administration and the CIA repeatedly ignored warnings about the veracity of the information that an Iraqi informant named ‘Curveball’ was giving about Saddam Hussein’s weapons of mass destruction.
So, using 1 example, Germany did not believe Saddam had WMD, and offered proof that the administration was misleading.
Lied? Technically no, but still misled. (Bush misled, people bled….doesn’t have quite the ring to it)
I will never forgive Bush and company misleading our brave men and women to their death…..EVER!!!
Dale,
A country should never go to war over SUSPICION – Get it?
Would you beat your wife if you suspected she was having an affair? Later to find out those “photos” of her with another man at lunch was just her travel agent planning your 20th Anniversary trip to Hawaii.
February 26th, 2007 at 11:53 amAt the Bilderberg Conference, in Baden-Baden, Germany, David Rockefeller (a Rothschild) made the following statement:
“We are grateful to the Washington Post, the New York Times, Time Magazine, and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost 40 years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world, if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years.
But the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The super-national sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries.”
Richard Nixon, as you know, liked to record all of his conversations.
US religious leader Billy Graham and President Richard Nixon once had the following exchange, which was caught on tape:
GRAHAM: “The Jewish stranglehold on the media has got to be broken or this country’s going down the drain”.
NIXON: “You believe that?”
GRAHAM: “Yes, sir.”
NIXON: “Oh boy. So do I. I can’t ever say that but I do believe it”
Don’t go any further until you see this: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6500735333444855002&hl=en
February 26th, 2007 at 11:54 amhttp://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8782509076175388309&hl=en
And if other countries believed that (whether or not they believed that Saddam was a threat) then the assertion that “Bush lied, people died†is incorrect. — Comment by Dale
Bush lied. Cheney lied. Condi lied. Rumsfeld lied. This same group also tried to hide facts and opinions critical to their positions. They even went so far as to expose a CIA operative whose husband was critical of their position.
February 26th, 2007 at 12:21 pmWhile walking through our cafeteria on my way into work I noticed that one station was running a fairly large graphic “Is Iran Targeting New York” It was not Fox or CNN, I think maybe it was MSNBC, but I am not positive. All I could think was *sigh not again* I’m pretty sure we wills tart to see more orange and other pretty color alerts during the run up to this new war.
#14 every intelligence agency except the UN Inspectors, who were there on the ground. And the big difference is that the Bush administration said they knew exactly where they were. (In NE Iraq (whoops Kurdish country under US protection), IN and around Ttikrit, in palm groves south of Baghdad etc…) Are you not the least bit concerned that this administration said they knew where these weapons were, and then lost track of them? Other agencies suspected he might have them, only the US said yes he does and we know where they are. Your proof is an opinion piece from the WSJ written by a neo con? Hmmm, got anything written by an independent? Oh, wait independent = liberal because independently verified information rarely matches what the administration says, never mind.
#42 Once Again your sourcing, sure it is the UN, but 1) I thought you guys did not trust the UN and 2) the quote you provide says right there that the investigation into these rockets is till on going, yet you draw unequivocal conclusions. That is why we are in this mess…because those in charge hear a rumor there, manufactured evidence there etc… and draw their conclusions based on that without waiting for the information to be developed and evaluated. You imply that the rocket warheads are the full 2,000, however the report implies less. In the long run though what was the ultimately conclusion on those particular rockets and the missing agents? If I am not mistaken the rockets were not filled with any agents and the missing stuff was ultimately accounted for.
Your David Kay reference is irrelevant too, because what were his ultimate conclusions? And was Iraq a threat to the US?
So on this particular topic you cite as evidence 1) a neocon who was a leading agitator for war and 2) an interim report from the UN which cites investigations that had not been completed. 3) testimony from David Kay long before his report is even close to being complete. 4) An interview with the French (I thought you guys hated them?) But you never mention the most important issue…was Iraq a threat to the US? The answer is no, and time has shown that a united Iraq in 2002 was less of a threat to the US than a fractured Iraq is in 2007.
Here is something you need to know. Our intelligence agencies in the past worked thusly. Intelligence was gathered, then analyzed. Part of the analyization is determining the validity of the intelligence, crap was tossed out suspect intelligence was labeled as being suspect and graded etc… Once the stuff is analyzed and collated it was then analyzed as a whole and graded. The grading was pretty much on the basis of likelihood of occurrence, not likely, possible probable, imminent etc…and then passed along to the people who needed the information. The vice president has said on may occasions that he wanted the unfiltered information, so he was looking at everything from the crack pot to the credible, this is why his office took the unprecedented step to having offices set up for their own defector intelligence analysis. This is where the system breaks down, it is why crack pot stuff like Mohammad Atta met with Iraqi’s in Prague or Iraq was trying to buy yellowcake was used in the analysis. Going through normal procedures this stuff gets debunked, and they did not want it debunked. It is why the VP still says to this day that these are real events even though in the real world they have been thoroughly debunked and discarded.
I am brining this half asssed analysis up as a way to say that for the right wingers they seem to like to say that congress had the same information that the president had, this is not even close to being accurate. The president had the same information that congress had is a more accurate statement. But in no way shape or form did congress have everything that the white house had. If they did then congress would have known that the Yellow cake theory was already disprove. What congress got is what they thought was a thoroughly analyzed and vetted intelligence estimate/report etc…What congress got, we later learned was an intelligence report that was fixed around the policy, and slowly over time we are learning that Downing Street was accurate. Heck Paul Wolfowitz said as much back in 20003 when he said that WMD and terrorism was the marketable selling point for this war.
I do find it fascinating though that the neocons of this country love to go on about Iraq and it was all based on suspected activity, suspected future intentions etc… But when cornered about the August 2001 PDB “Bin Laden Determined to strike US” They are more than happy with the response that the threat was vague to we could not respond to it. So a direct threat to attack our country is too vague so the administration did NOTHING, yet a vague theory about the future intentions of Iraq and a vague theory about seeding the mid east with democracy is enough to act on?
February 26th, 2007 at 12:38 pm[...] of veterans in a long post. The Impolitic calls the veteran situation a national disgrace. ThinkFast includes the veteran situation in a “quick link”-like list. I could go on and on…I even came [...]
February 26th, 2007 at 1:10 pmSo, did Pres. Bush lie? If so, then so did Pres. Chirac, and the heads of state of many, many other countries.
Comment by Dale — February 26, 2007 @ 10:49 am
Dale, Chirac’s “that’s probable” is a far cry away from Rumsfeld’s “we know where they are”. One allows for uncertainty, the other is an assertion of absolute certitude.
As I’ve said before, stating that Hussein had WMD -with no room for doubt- when in reality their existence was far from assured is to mislead, aka lie.
February 26th, 2007 at 1:17 pmDRxJ, try re-reading my comments. I never said that any country knew WITHOUT A DOUBT that Iraq had WMD’s; I said that other countries BELIEVED that fact.Comment by Dale — February 26, 2007 @ 11:17 am
If by countries, you mean Israel and Britain – that may true. But that’s because we told them it was true without the evidence dum bass.
And if other countries believed that (whether or not they believed that Saddam was a threat) then the assertion that “Bush lied, people died†is incorrect. Comment by Dale — February 26, 2007 @ 11:17 am
Not if Bush lied to those countries as well, dum bass.
February 26th, 2007 at 1:35 pmDon’t just complain about veterans being mistreated when they come home. Do something about it! Call your House and Senate folk and let them know you’re concerned and that they need to take action.
February 26th, 2007 at 1:37 pmOkay, can we officially quit pretending that Chuck Hagel is on the right side here. He says one thing but votes NeoCOn every single time.
Chuck Hagel is a true flip flopper.
February 26th, 2007 at 1:44 pmI posted links to articles in major mainstream outlets (plus from the U.N.) showing that others, NOT JUST PRES. BUSH, believed that Iraq may have WMD’s.
Comment by Dale
Yes Dale, some believed that Iraq MAY have had WMD. However as others have pointed out, the bush administration never claimed Iraq MAY have had WMD, they claimed he did in fact have WMD, that they knew what he had, how much he had and where it was. See the difference yet?
February 26th, 2007 at 2:15 pmAl Sharpton should get down on his knees every day and thank God for slavery. If it hadn’t been for slavery he would just be an african in Africa. I know it could have been done better and should have but without black Africa as slaves this country would be mostly white.
February 26th, 2007 at 3:15 pmBush lied to us, then all the other intelligence agencies and all the other countries IN THE WORLD also lied.
Comment by Dale #14
For the sake of argument let’s say that your assertion is true Dale…
…their lies (all the OTHER countries in the world) didn’t cost our country a damn thing…
..it was YOUR gods Bushiva and L’il Dick’s lies…
…that are breaking our backs…
February 26th, 2007 at 3:22 pmYeah, because….um…….America isn’t…..um…….mostly white right now?
February 26th, 2007 at 3:31 pmComment by Navy Vet #90
America’s best and brightest huh?
…You certainly are a (dis)credit to your race (whatever it might be), your uniform, and your parentage…
…THIS (Navy Vet and those like him) is America’s #1 enemy…
February 26th, 2007 at 3:32 pmAMERIKA WAS NOT the FIRST FREE NATION!
February 26th, 2007 at 4:02 pm“Heck of job YOU aren’t doin’, Pervie!”
February 26th, 2007 at 8:15 pmThis is a National Failure of MOUMENTAL PROPORTIONS on how the administrations of current and going back throughout the years have LET OUR VETERANS DOWN–Americans MUST DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS!!!!!
DOWN WITH CHIMPya and Bushland Uber Allies!!!!!
Ah Yes, repugnant-repubs and rightwingnut religious-right freaks always pick their WRONG faith and MISTAKEN conviction over the cold hard facts of SCIENCE which should be shoved up their rectums to WAKE THESE CREEPS UP TO THE TRUTH!
You and CHIMPya/Cheney/Bushland Uber Allies, Sgt. Lopez!!!!!
When you SUCK AT THE TEAT of lobbyists, it is a HARD TASK to WEAN YOURSELF OFF the OPIATES THAT BIND YOU TO THEM!!!!!
The National Guard–A SOURCE FOR DRAFTING MORE FIGHTING MEN WHO DIDN’T EXPECT THAT THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN PUT TO SUCH USE!!!!!
Well, Shet Ma’ Mouf’ an’ Call Me Scarlet-Faced! I nevah’ thought I
would hav’ such a red-neck cracker ass fo’ a relativ! NO SAH!!!!!
A “Greedy Kilowatt” STIFLING itself–WILL WONDERS NEVER CEASE!!!!!
Is Myers a repugnant-repub? Or I guess he just DOESN’T HAVE THE BALLS to EXPRESS HIMSELF! HAR HAR HAR!!!!!