Army wants Jack Bauer to condemn torture.
The Army has invited Kiefer Sutherland, star of the hit TV show 24 and opponent of torture, to come and discuss why it is wrong to torture prisoners. Brigadier General Patrick Finnegan recently pleaded with the makers of the show to cut down on torture scenes, arguing that they are sending inappropriate messages to the troops condoning torture: “I’d like them to stop. They should do a show where torture backfires.”
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But people want their TV to be real. Besides, torture sells, right George?
February 27th, 2007 at 5:27 pmAnd the number one person showing torture as a viable tactic is going to preach against it?
That is like having Ron Jeremy preach abstinence.
What a friggin’ joke.
February 27th, 2007 at 5:29 pmSounds like the Army’s stance is:
February 27th, 2007 at 5:31 pmDo as we say, not as we do!
I’ve never seen “24″ but I’m pretty sure it’s fictional.
Who is the Army addressing?
BTW, I don’t endorse torture and violence on televsion — only sex.
February 27th, 2007 at 5:33 pmthey should do a show that involves the torturers getting thrown in jail, along with their bosses
February 27th, 2007 at 5:33 pmSo…the troops have TVs but not body armor? WTF?
February 27th, 2007 at 5:34 pmZooey, they want Kieffer to tell the officer candidates that torture is bad, all the while playing a torturer on TV. At least the Iraqi guy on Lost feels remorse for what he has done in the past and regrets torturing that one guy and they showed how it was bad.
24 on the other hand promotes it as being an effective tool that always gets you the correct info.
February 27th, 2007 at 5:37 pmSpudge,
I guess I don’t get why the Army would bother with a television show. Just train their men properly. And don’t recruit lunatics.
I used to watch “Lost” before I shitcanned the TV, it was pretty good. They did handle the turture issue well. That Iraqi dude was totally hot. :)
February 27th, 2007 at 5:43 pmThe New Yorkerhas a great article on the politics of the show “24.” Right wing talk shows are using the popularity of the torture theme the show displays as proof of its effectiveness and still worse that the American people are o.k. with it.
February 27th, 2007 at 5:46 pm24 is wildly popular with our troops overseas. Many watch the show on bootleg DVDs that they put on their laptops or other computers. Oddly enough, I think that it allows them to relax and enjoy at least one of the creature comforts of living in the States, American television. Believe me when I tell you that, judging by what my brother and others have told their families and friends, anything on 24 pales in comparison to what happens on the streets of Iraq every day.
I’m not condoning torture, and I don’t think our troops really do, either. I wish that, if Kiefer Sutherland were to visit the troops, he would do so because he and his show are a real favorite to our soldiers over in Iraq. Our troops live for connections to the States, why wouldn’t a favorite television show be one?
February 27th, 2007 at 5:47 pmWhat about freedom of speech? Freedom to make fantasy shows?
Why doesnt the military tell their own soldiers what the rules are and what the punishment will be if they dont follow those rules? Are they saying the soldiers take orders from 24? … and not their military commanders?
February 27th, 2007 at 5:52 pmYou have had top military personnel come out against torture and the current policies of this president in the past couple of years. Many military brass have been forced to retire or strategically displaced for taking a stance against what many in the military feel to be the wrong course. The more military that comes out publicly the better.
February 27th, 2007 at 5:54 pm* Hater
I suppose it’s how you define torture. The incidents at Abu Ghraib were widely viewed as torture across the world. Saying that, I do believe that to be the exception and not the rule.
What the general said must be seen as a good thing. It counters the belief that many people have that torture provides accurate confessions. Yeah, if that was the case then the Jews did poison wells and cause the Black Death. Well, they confessed to it under torture didn’t they? Must be true.
Anything that discourages the use of torture is a good thing.
February 27th, 2007 at 5:55 pmI cannot believe the idiocy of our army leaders. Parade Keifer Sutherland???..The troops already have received tacit approval from the administration. It is our President who has directed rendition to foreign countries and set up the illegal GITMO. If anyone should come out on television and speak against torture it should be GW. Of course after he’s impeached.
February 27th, 2007 at 5:58 pm* Hater and Gerald Gibson Jr,
I am personally upset, because I like 24. As I have stated a couple of times here, I have been on the set. My company’s products are used on the show. The cast and crew are great and most are anti-Bush. It is the Producers of the show that are the problem. They have the torture stuff included to push the republican agenda. Don’t believe me, Google “Joel Surnow 24 torture” and read his comments.
24 is a great show that has Keiffer capturing the bad guys, stopping corruption and over all being a good guy. There is this torture thing I can’t live with. I have watched every season, but it is starting to get old. I am having a real problem with watching this season. I started getting annoyed with the torture a couple of seasons ago, but I t is just too much now.
February 27th, 2007 at 6:00 pmUkBristol/Dave
In the show torture always works, except of course, when applied to Jack Buaer. I’m currently reading about a Nam vet, Jeremiah Denton, who was tortured in the extreme and yet gave bad information.
February 27th, 2007 at 6:03 pmTorture works and should be used in dire circumstances.
February 27th, 2007 at 6:03 pm“I love the use of thumbscrews and hot coals in the morining”-Jack Bauer sarcasm.
February 27th, 2007 at 6:04 pmComment by Spudge_Boy — February 27, 2007 @ 6:00 pm
I think the problem is that we both recognise that 24 is fiction. The torture is a plot device. However, the sad fact is that some viewers have problems splitting fiction from reality.
Your companies’ products are used and you’ve been on set? Quality! If you don’t mind me asking, what products are they?
February 27th, 2007 at 6:06 pmZooey; You go girl!!! Make love not war, let the televised orgies begin. :D
February 27th, 2007 at 6:07 pmHey, Uncle Ho.
Yeah, when my sons were younger, I would rather they see both of Janet Jackson’s boobs than some of the sick violence on the idiot box. By now, I’m sure they’ve investigated the boob situation more closely. Heh.
February 27th, 2007 at 6:12 pmComment by Russ — February 27, 2007 @ 6:03 pm
Fair play to Mr Denton. I salute him. Is there a book on this? I’d be very interested in his story.
Bit surprised by Stanmans’ comment. When has torture been used effectively? By your estimation, the fact that members of the Jewish community confessed to poisoning water supplies in 1349 shouldn’t be placed in doubt just because the “confessions” were gained from torture yeah? Hell, they admitted it; despite the fact that advances in medical knowledge shows this couldn’t be true.
February 27th, 2007 at 6:12 pmBrig General Patrick Finnegan recently pleaded with the makers of the show […] arguing that they are sending inappropriate messages to the troops
This is the higher echelons of the Army skirting their own responsibility on the instances of torture that have happened.
Are we to believe watching a show “sends the wrong message”, but redefining torture does not? The Sec of Defense signing orders approving extreme interrogation tactics does not send the wrong message? Asking the troops to “soften up” the prisoners for interrogation does not send the wrong message?
Yeah, the TV show made them do it, sure…
February 27th, 2007 at 6:18 pmUKBristolDave:
February 27th, 2007 at 6:20 pmWhen Hell Was In Session
BG Finnegan has been the head of the Law Department at the US Military Academy since 1999, and taught law to cadets. He is the man responsible for what the junior leaders of the army know and think about the Law of Land Warfare, which is explicit on mantaining the welfare of civilians in a war zone and not abusing them. As we all know, there has been widespread abuse of civilians in Iraq. Nasty stuff. All done under the supposed supervision of junior officers trained by Finnegan. Perhaps Finnegan has failed to teach. Perhaps it’s because of his teaching philosophy. And now Finnegan makes his big splash in Hollywood.
From The New Yorker:
“Finnegan, who is a lawyer, has for a number of years taught a course on the laws of war to West Point seniors—cadets who would soon be commanders in the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan. He always tries, he said, to get his students to sort out not just what is legal but what is right. However, it had become increasingly hard to convince some cadets that America had to respect the rule of law nad human rights, even when terrorists did not.
http://www.newyorker.com/ printables/ fact/ 070219fa_fact_mayer
“Sort out” the law? There’s been too much “sorting out”, methinks.
February 27th, 2007 at 6:21 pmI can’t say much more than I work for a large networking company. Our products have been used all over the place and in other movies and TV shows. I am a public figure at the company, so I don’t want to give the trolls ammunition against me or my company.
On the reality vs fiction subject, you are right. Some people can’t tell reality from fiction. That is why John Hinkley shot Reagan. Because he thought Jody Foster would run off with him. Look at most serial killers and you find that they have some type of fascination with a particular movie or book. For some, that book is the bible.
February 27th, 2007 at 6:22 pmThere have been terrorist plots stopped due to torture. I believe it was ABC reporter Brian Ross that stated on the bum Orielly’s show that water boarding stopped an attack on the largest building in L.A. I don’t believe Oreilly, but I do believe Ross who has talked out against torture. Watch the video of the interview. It took away all of my doubts.
February 27th, 2007 at 6:22 pm
Zooey, I find the boob situation much more interesting than bamboo shoots under fingernails. :)
February 27th, 2007 at 6:23 pm17. Torture works and should be used in dire circumstances.
February 27th, 2007 at 6:23 pmComment by stanman
Please site for us evidence of torturing actually working. Just throwing out comments like that is not “Think (ing) Progress” .
Zooey, I find the boob situation much more interesting than bamboo shoots under fingernails. :)
Comment by Uncle Ho
Sounds like you have an extremely healthy mind, Uncle Ho.
Heh.
February 27th, 2007 at 6:26 pmPlease site for us evidence of torturing actually working. Just throwing out comments like that is not “Think (ing) Progress†.
I posted the link but did not load. Here it is again.
http://hotair.com/ archives/ 2006/ 09/ 20/ bombshell-abc-independently-confirms-success-of-cia-torture-tactics/
February 27th, 2007 at 6:26 pmZooey; BTW, I just got confirmation on another trip I’m taking. Back to DC for another antiwar protest 17 March. Leaving downtown Detroit the night before.
February 27th, 2007 at 6:27 pm“However, the sad fact is that some viewers have problems splitting fiction from reality.”
24 is for real man! Think about it - Kieffer Sutherland in 24, Donald Sutherland in M*A*S*H. The Iraq thing is pure fiction.
February 27th, 2007 at 6:29 pmSounds likeyou have an extremely healthy mind, Uncle Ho.
Nah, I’m just a dirty old man. : )
February 27th, 2007 at 6:29 pmWe are no longer a country of laws but of men who believe in torture, like the idea of torture and use torture for the administration’s agenda. 24 plays into that agenda. I read the comments by Joel Surnow, which to me smack of approval of dictatorship. I have not ever and will not ever watch this show.
February 27th, 2007 at 6:31 pm“Nah, I’m just a dirty old man. : )”
When your under 30 your horny. When your under 50 your undersexed. When your over 50 your a dirty old man! LOL
February 27th, 2007 at 6:32 pmComment by Russ — February 27, 2007 @ 6:20 pm
I rest my case. Torture just doesn’t work. If we can’t learn lessons from the 14th century then I’m really just going to pack up and go home.
Comment by Spudge_Boy — February 27, 2007 @ 6:22 pm
It’s probably not best to get me started to religion…..
I’m not sure how to address the problem of people getting TV and reality mixed up. I love some TV shows (Prime Suspect for example - and not just because Mirren won the Oscar) but recognise that at least 99% of it is b0llocks. My concern is how so many people seem to believe what they see on the telly is true. The amount of times my jaw has hit the floor when I’m in the pub when someone tells me that something they saw on a TV drama is “fact” is disturbing.
Understand why you want to keep the company out of it; it’s a good choice.
February 27th, 2007 at 6:32 pmI think Sutherland should do more than just speak in opposition of torture. I think he should take a stand against torture by walking off the show. Sometimes our personal fortunes are really irrelevant when it comes to the greater good.
February 27th, 2007 at 6:33 pmZooey; BTW, I just got confirmation on another trip I’m taking. Back to DC for another antiwar protest 17 March. Leaving downtown Detroit the night before.
Comment by Uncle Ho
Fantastic! I’ll be participating in a protest with my son in Coeur d’Alene.
February 27th, 2007 at 6:35 pmNah, I’m just a dirty old man. : )
Comment by Uncle Ho
I hope you don’t think that’s a bad thing.
February 27th, 2007 at 6:36 pmYikes; I don’t need that little blue pill (at least not yet).
How about it ladies? Isn’t it true? That a hard man is good to find. hehehe.
February 27th, 2007 at 6:37 pmI can’t say much more than I work for a large networking company. Our products have been used all over the place and in other movies and TV shows. I am a public figure at the company, so I don’t want to give the trolls ammunition against me or my company.
Comment by Spudge_Boy
Are you the “Can you hear me now?” guy!!? heh
February 27th, 2007 at 6:37 pmComment by stanman — February 27, 2007 @ 6:26 pm
Isn’t hotair the site run by Michelle Malkin? If so, fair enough, it’s a site with an agenda. Before you go off at me, if I linked a Think Progress report to counter a story on freerepublic how seriously do you think I’d be taken?
Provide me with an independent, reputable, non-partisan source. Until you do that you’re basically admitting that torture doesn’t work
February 27th, 2007 at 6:37 pmStanman,
Those facts are totally debunked here,
http://blogs.lib.ncsu.edu/page/shgreene/20060908
February 27th, 2007 at 6:38 pmPrime Suspect is (was) the best mystery/cop show of all time. Hope they can get Helen back for more but I doubt it.
February 27th, 2007 at 6:39 pmHow about it ladies? Isn’t it true? That a hard man is good to find. hehehe.
Comment by Uncle Ho
*clearing throat*
You bet your ass.
February 27th, 2007 at 6:40 pmStanman,
that story has already been debunked.
Say it with me: Torture does not work.
February 27th, 2007 at 6:42 pmI hope you don’t think that’s a bad thing
Nope, I’d rather embrace another person than shoot ‘em.
February 27th, 2007 at 6:43 pmTorture does work sometimes. So do nuclear bombs.
However as Jon Stewart once said with a Darth Vader mask on as he mock talked to Cheney… “You have the power of the dark side… but you dont have to use it every single time!”…
February 27th, 2007 at 6:43 pmComment by Yikes — February 27, 2007 @ 6:39 pm
I think the writers played a blinder and stopped it just when we all wanted more. For example, Cracker came back after some time off and was just terrible.
Are you from the UK Yikes? I just don’t know if Prime Suspect made it across the pond.
February 27th, 2007 at 6:45 pmNope, I’d rather embrace another person than shoot ‘em.
Comment by Uncle Ho
It’s also more comfortable, cleaner, and legal. :)
February 27th, 2007 at 6:47 pmPlease site for us evidence of torturing actually working. Just throwing out comments like that is not “Think (ing) Progress†.
I posted the link but did not load. Here it is again.
http://hotair.com/ archives/ 2006/ 09/ 20/ bombshell-abc-independently-confirms-success-of-cia-torture-tactics/
Comment by stanman
That’s it?? That is the evidence that torture works?
February 27th, 2007 at 6:48 pmCondoning torture is no better than the enemy he disavows.
I go with Laura Ingraham on this one, the popularity of 24 proves that Americans love torture, and furthermore, the popularity of the West Wing proves that Americans want a liberal democrat for president. (Although I think The West Wing is off the air, so that must mean that Americans no longer want a Liberal Democrat president. Anyway, the ongoing popularity of Grey’s Anatomy demonstrates that Americans will watch anything if it is on TV.)
February 27th, 2007 at 6:48 pm[…] and that torture doesn’t just not work, it’s actually harmful. Now comes news that The Army has asked Kiefer Sutherland to speak to troops and explain that torture doesn’t work. He’ll start by talking to cadets at West Point to explain that all of the notions presented […]
February 27th, 2007 at 6:50 pmIf the writers of “24″ are so damned talented why haven’t they thought of this plot: An Islamic extremist knows the location of a nuclear device. He’s captured and they want to know where the device is, as it’s going to detonate soon. Since he’s motivated by martyrdom, torture won’t work. They get an imam to come and tell him that he’s mistaken, he won’t go to paradise for killing infidels, in fact he’ll go to hell. And then (after appropriate dramatic tension)he confesses, because being religiously motivated the threat of hell is far more effective than that of torture. Good show? Nah, it’s too logical and it promotes actual values held by 99% of Muslims.
February 27th, 2007 at 6:53 pmUKBristolDave, I’m Canadian but Prime Suspect and Cracker and (damn can’t remember the name of another good show - older guy with a jag oh yes Morse was his name) were all played on the US PBS network. I agree with the decline of Cracker. When my wife and I visit the UK, we love to see what’s on the BBC channels.
February 27th, 2007 at 6:53 pmAmericans will watch anything if it is on TV-comment by linus bern.
Actually, SOME of us Americans DO have some standards. I have never seen even ONE episode of 24, nor do I watch Fear Factor, Jackass, or Survivor.
Give me unscrambled porn instead. Sarcasm.
February 27th, 2007 at 6:56 pmActually, SOME of us Americans DO have some standards. I have never seen even ONE episode of 24, nor do I watch Fear Factor, Jackass, or Survivor.
Give me unscrambled porn instead. Sarcasm.
Comment by Uncle Ho
Uncle Ho, I don’t watch porn either, but it probably has more value than the other shows you mentioned.
BTW, did you see the info I put up about that survey?
February 27th, 2007 at 7:07 pmComment by Yikes — February 27, 2007 @ 6:53 pm
Glad you like our shows bud. I do think one of the things that the UK can still do is produce decent police drama. The original Cracker was a case in point - Fitz was the ultimate anti-hero, treated his family like sh1te but you still loved him. It’s odd how we can produce characters like that.
Funnily enough, Morses’ sidekick, Lewis, now has his own show. It’s actually really well done. His understudy is akin to a young Morse so it’s a proper “pupil has become the master” setup. I didn’t think it would work but it’s great.
If you like UK shows, have you seen any “Shameless” yet? It’s incredible. Not only is it funny but it’s extremely touching as well.
February 27th, 2007 at 7:08 pmwhat a bunch of pussy’s. it’s war. show your balls.
February 27th, 2007 at 7:10 pmUncle Ho, given the choice between watching regular TV and scrambled porn, I would go for the porn and my girlfriend would too.
February 27th, 2007 at 7:12 pmZooey; No, did not catch the info you posted, I did bookmark that other thread the other day. I figure that after all these years, a few days won’t make any difference.
I had a few laughs from this thread today, and I hope I gave some too. Very busy day today. Got up early for some grocery shopping, and busy day at work too(but not slammed like Saturday). I ‘m calling it a day.
Good luck and Good night all. Peace.
February 27th, 2007 at 7:14 pmUKBristolDave,
You guys are still number one in comedy. British comedy is hands down my favorite. Right now I am enjoying Extras. Hilarious. And the new Doctor Who is awesome. My girlfriend is a Whovian from wayyyyyyy back.
February 27th, 2007 at 7:15 pmComment by ballbuster — February 27, 2007 @ 7:10 pm
Hey ballbuster, are you asking me to show some balls? Why is that fella?
February 27th, 2007 at 7:15 pmWhy do you want to see my balls?
February 27th, 2007 at 7:15 pmwhat a bunch of pussy’s. it’s war. show your balls.
Comment by ballbuster
I didn’t think it was possible for you be more stupid, but thanks for confirming that, ballslobber.
February 27th, 2007 at 7:16 pmGood luck and Good night all. Peace.
Comment by Uncle Ho
Goodnight, Uncle Ho.
February 27th, 2007 at 7:16 pmUncle Ho, Yep! in answer to ” How about it ladies”, the best…And like you in the post above I have never watched those show’s either….I agree with Zooey and you on the hug’s and…LOL..Don’t want to get to racy here I suspect most of the troll’s are to young and using Mom’s computer…Blessings….
February 27th, 2007 at 7:17 pmOf course the army believes in torture … of our own troops. It’s called Building 18. They place our injured soldiers in a building at Walter Reed with black mold, rats and cockroaches.
February 27th, 2007 at 7:18 pmAnd the new Doctor Who is awesome. My girlfriend is a Whovian from wayyyyyyy back.
Comment by Spudge_Boy
I’ve been a Doctor Who fan for years. I really like the 9th & 10th Doctors.
February 27th, 2007 at 7:18 pmwhat a bunch of pussy’s. it’s war. show your balls-comment bu ballbuster
So where are yours? I have seen what a land mine does to a human body. It’s unf*ckingbelievable. I’ve seen my share, so grow some balls, enlist, and go find out for yourself.
I know, I said good night on my previous post, but I could not let this one go unanswered.
February 27th, 2007 at 7:20 pmOf course the army believes in torture … of our own troops. It’s called Building 18. They place our injured soldiers in a building at Walter Reed with black mold, rats and cockroaches.
Comment by Rhonda
Well said, Rhonda.
February 27th, 2007 at 7:21 pmWow! The Army has no business telling a TV show that the reality they perpetrating in the show which’s very real. America torture people, does water boarding ring a bell? God will never bless a country like America …America…… If Jesus was alive today in America, he won’t only be crucified but we will get pictures of him naked with a white trash hick pointing her finger at his genitals.
February 27th, 2007 at 7:23 pmoh zooey girl…..what are you scared of?
February 27th, 2007 at 7:23 pmonly sex.
Comment by Zooey
Now you are talking… ;)
February 27th, 2007 at 7:25 pm26.
This is indicated by the number of people who believe in a God.
February 27th, 2007 at 7:26 pmI know, I said good night on my previous post, but I could not let this one go unanswered.
Comment by Uncle Ho
I’m glad you didn’t let it go, Uncle Ho. That idiot is unredeemable.
February 27th, 2007 at 7:26 pmComment by Zooey — February 27, 2007 @ 7:18 pm
Have the recent series of Dr Who got over to you guys? My neice is in uproar that Billy Piper has left the series.
Ballbuster.
Still haven’t responded. Guess that means you’ve got no balls. 101st Keyboarders hey?
February 27th, 2007 at 7:26 pmoh zooey girl…..what are you scared of?
Comment by ballbuster
Absolutely nothing. Thanks for asking.
February 27th, 2007 at 7:27 pmZooey,
Christopher Eccleston plays the invisible man in Heroes. : )
February 27th, 2007 at 7:29 pmHave the recent series of Dr Who got over to you guys? My neice is in uproar that Billy Piper has left the series.
Comment by UKBristolDave
Yes! When I still had TV, we watched it on the SciFi Channel. I own the DVD set of the 9th Doctor (so hot); and am saving my pennies for the 10th Doctor, since I missed most of them. I HATE that Billie Piper left the series!
February 27th, 2007 at 7:31 pmChristopher Eccleston plays the invisible man in Heroes. : )
Comment by Spudge_Boy
I’m assuming that’s a TV show — damn! I need to barge in on the neighbors to see it….
February 27th, 2007 at 7:33 pmComment by ballbuster — February 27, 2007 @ 7:23 pm
You don’t get it do you? It’s you that’s scared. I’ve spent my whole life with someone wanting to blow me up. For the first twenty years it was Irish Nationalists. Now its extremists Muslims. Can I put this simply enough for you
I couldn’t give a damn.
I pay my taxes and the security services look after me. In the interim I’m going to get on with my life. For all I know, next week it could be Cornish separatists trying to kill me. So what? I get on with my life and don’t let it bother me.
You don’t understand terrorism do you? Terrorists realise that the acts that commit can’t defeat a country. They need fear to do it. You give them the oxygen they need. I suggest you grow a pair, stop hiding behind a macho attitude and learn to be a man.
Get it yet?
February 27th, 2007 at 7:34 pmComment by Zooey — February 27, 2007 @ 7:31 pm
The worst thing is that my niece thinks I’m superman so Lydia is expecting me to sort out getting Billy back into it.
Christ, I wish I’d never sorted it out for her to meet the WBA players. She now thinks I can do anything!!
Do you like the new Dr’s? I think the pair have been perfect Dr’s for the 21st century. It’s good to see the BBC getting it right.
February 27th, 2007 at 7:38 pmUKBristolDave,
I’m sure your niece is right — do your best. :)
I like both of the new Doctors. I liked the 9th Doc immediately, as his character was darker and more dangerous; and the 10th Doctor has grown on me. He seems like one of the old-style Doctors, with a little something extra.
The Daleks have always cracked me up, even though they were supposed to be so dangerous.
February 27th, 2007 at 7:46 pmThis u.s. general should look in front of this face.
February 27th, 2007 at 7:47 pmTorture does’nt work and exposure of it will show the same.
Both of us liek the new Drs. I just wish Christopher Eccleston would have done more than one seasons before the change. I know they are trying to let new viewers in on what the Doctor is about, but we liked him dang it. But, I am glad to see him on Heroes.
February 27th, 2007 at 7:51 pmGeneral Patrick Finnegan is a halfwit.
February 27th, 2007 at 7:55 pmOr, in an nicer form, overly protective.
But, I am glad to see him on Heroes.
Comment by Spudge_Boy
Eccleston isn’t on the Heroes website! Are you sure it’s him, since he’s invisible and all? :)
February 27th, 2007 at 7:57 pmCome on BallBuster, where are you?
February 27th, 2007 at 8:01 pmCome on BallBuster, where are you?
Comment by UKBristolDave
He answers to “ballslobber” now. I decided. :)
February 27th, 2007 at 8:04 pmPerhaps the producers and network airing “24″ would be the ones better to explain why they decide to pander to the testosterone-laden macho crowd with such sensationalism instead of quality television with excellent writing and developed plots.
Fox televsion is the specialist in pandering to the visceral element in the viewers. Every week there is something about at least one Fox network program in the papers or on other entertainment programs.
It’s Fox’s modus operandi and the people quite willingly and uncomplainingly swallow it. “24″ could be a better program in the hands of good writers. Fox doesn”t care for that. You get what you pay for.
February 27th, 2007 at 8:08 pmComment by Zooey — February 27, 2007 @ 8:04 pm
Aaah, fair enough. I thought that me calling him out as a coward might get him to respond. Never mind hey?
Is it just me or are all these right wingers really looking for a father figure?
February 27th, 2007 at 8:11 pmI want to be very clear: I am not excusing torture in any form, even on a television program. In fact, I have found this season of 24 nauseating in its subject matter.
What I was relaying was my own experience with having a deployed soldier in the family, nothing more, and nothing less. 24 is a good thriller of a show, especially where boys are concerned, and let’s face it, many of our troops are young men in their late teens and early 20s.
Other shows that are immensely popular with our troops in Iraq: any sports show or game, The Colbert Report is much loved and much watched, The Daily Show is very popular. Mind of Mencia and anything with Dave Chapelle are extremely popular. Heroes is always in demand. Family Guy, American Dad, King of the Hill, and Simpsons are troop favorites.
As I said before, I think that the troops would be thrilled to meet Mr. Sutherland, as they are all fans. I do not think it is the responsibility of Mr. Sutherland to assuage the consciences of Army brass and the * administration as it pertains to torture. He plays a character on a fictional television show. If he goes to Iraq, it should be to meet some hardworking, homesick fans who appreciate the entertainment that he provides.
February 27th, 2007 at 8:14 pmIs it just me or are all these right wingers really looking for a father figure?
Comment by UKBristolDave
Since so many of them have problems with women, I always wonder if they missed the breastfeeding.
February 27th, 2007 at 8:21 pmHere is a picture of him as the invisible man.
February 27th, 2007 at 8:45 pm#93 Oedipal complexes…every single one of them. They are not looking for father figures. They are looking to compete with daddy (by being “manly”) for their mothers’ affection. I think you nailed it.
February 27th, 2007 at 8:47 pmYou just described Bush 41 and 43.
February 27th, 2007 at 9:01 pmOhhh, thanks Spudge. I didn’t think of looking on imdb.
*drooling*
February 27th, 2007 at 9:02 pmJPark & Spudge,
Beware of little boys in grown-up man bodies looking for their unavailable mommy’s love.
February 27th, 2007 at 9:07 pmYou don’t understand terrorism do you? Terrorists realise that the acts that commit can’t defeat a country. They need fear to do it. You give them the oxygen they need. I suggest you grow a pair, stop hiding behind a macho attitude and learn to be a man.
Get it yet?
Comment by UKBristolDave
Bingo….
February 27th, 2007 at 9:07 pmComment by Gerald Gibson Jr — February 27, 2007 @ 9:07 pm
Thank you…..
February 27th, 2007 at 9:24 pm#96 Believe me. I thought of the connection when I wrote the post. If only Babs gave W more hugs we might not be at war.
February 27th, 2007 at 9:31 pmAren’t our troops intelligent enough to realize that the torture on 24 isn’t real? Are they really that dumb that they have to have a television star come and explain it to them? Wow, if that’s the case then I’m really worried.
February 27th, 2007 at 10:13 pmHow about asking Bush and Cheney to disavow torture?
February 27th, 2007 at 10:15 pmJack feels their pain……he will refrain
http://www.theweeklydonut.org/ index.php/ category/ kiefer-sutherland/
February 27th, 2007 at 10:47 pmThere’s a good short op/ed piece over on CultureCloud on this that wraps up the argument, sweeping up everything from The Washington Times to Sarah Vowell.
http://www.culturecloud.com/ Articles/ 00002029/ 24s_Torture.aspx
February 27th, 2007 at 11:29 pmJack/Kiefer, WHY DON’T YOU USE INVENTIVE TORTURE METHODS LIKE SHOWING CHIMPya DOING A TAP-DANCE(and FALLING ALL OVER HIS OWN FEET), Torticola Cheney USING THE CRAPPER(and seeing all the nuts and bolts come out of his foetid carcase) or GOD FORBID, John Ashcroft, Alberto VO5 Gonzales, David Addington and John Yoo do their Barbershop Quartet rendition of “Un-CHAINED Melody”–NOW THAT WOULD MAKE THE MOST HARDENED TERRORIST START SPILLING THE BEANS JUST TO STOP THEIR HORRENDOUS CATERWAULING!!!!!
February 27th, 2007 at 11:43 pm#106 Well, in the case of the barbershop quartet you are asking them to torture us.
February 27th, 2007 at 11:48 pmFDR would smack you wimps in the face. He held the japanese, you morons! AND Truman dropped the a-bomb. AND what does the modern day liberal movement talk about - torture. You people are pathetic and are reason #1 why we can’t win the WOT.
It’s so sad that you fooled the American people in 2006. I doubt they’re dumb enough to fall for it again.
Liberal train of thought - torturing terrorists bad, killing unborn babies good. You people are hopeless.
February 28th, 2007 at 12:02 amI’ve heard Kiefer Sutherland interviewed; his politics are definitely left of center and he comes from a very respected labor/social democratic family in Canada. I imagine that his first feeling about being in 24 was just the enjoyment of being in an extremely popular and compelling drama. From the type of person he seems to be, I imagine that he feels quite a lot of responsibility to work this issue out and probably feels very honored that the military wants him to speak to the troops.
I feel like the plot suffers a lot of the time from over-using the Alan Dershowitz scenario (which is that torture is justified when you know a bomb is about to go off in which thousands or hundreds of thousands will be killed). I liked this week’s episode because they didn’t have to torture anyone. I saw that Jack will be back to torturing next week.
February 28th, 2007 at 12:03 amNo Hearts, FDR would smack YOU in the face for being such a fearful little pussy.
February 28th, 2007 at 12:08 amAmazing that righties think 24 is real. It is a fictional show, you half-wits.
February 28th, 2007 at 12:21 amFDR would smack you wimps in the face. Comment by Liberals Heart Terrorists — February 28, 2007 @ 12:02 am
He was a liberal, and he smacked fascists like you around - nazi fool.
He held the japanese, you morons! Comment by Liberals Heart Terrorists — February 28, 2007 @ 12:02 am
Yeah, after they attacked us. Hitler and Japan were the pre-emptive attackers - like Bush and Israel are today.
AND Truman dropped the a-bomb. Comment by Liberals Heart Terrorists — February 28, 2007 @ 12:02 am
Yes he did. Making the US the only country every to use Nuclear WMDs. Nice club - eh?
AND what does the modern day liberal movement talk about - torture. Comment by Liberals Heart Terrorists — February 28, 2007 @ 12:02 am
Actually you fcuk heads used torture as an excuse to call Saddam an animal. You’re a fcuking idiot.
You people are pathetic and are reason #1 why we can’t win the WOT. Comment by Liberals Heart Terrorists — February 28, 2007 @ 12:02 am
You don’t think we can win? Oh ye of little faith. Why are you such a defeatist - you right wing terrorists?
And only a completely dum bass would wage a war on ‘ideology’, you fcuking idiot.
It’s so sad that you fooled the American people in 2006. I doubt they’re dumb enough to fall for it again. Comment by Liberals Heart Terrorists — February 28, 2007 @ 12:02 am
America was dum enough to be fooled in 2004 (Gore won in 2000 by a half million votes). Just like most of the previous 50 years, america prefers a liberal leadership, despite the fascist media corpse doing your duty.
Liberal train of thought - torturing terrorists bad, killing unborn babies good. You people are hopeless. Comment by Liberals Heart Terrorists — February 28, 2007 @ 12:02 am
Torturing anyone bad - you fcuking sick lunatic. As for killing ‘unborn babies’, you fcuking fools can’t tell a fetus from a baby, but you sure can starve and murder babies that stand in the way of your WOT. You people are the hopeless fcukheads.
Comment by Liberals Heart Terrorists — February 28, 2007 @ 12:02 am
Tell it to your fellow fcukheads that ignore you fcukers were the morons that armed the terrorists. Fcuking fool.
February 28th, 2007 at 1:52 amCensorship for teh win!!!1
February 28th, 2007 at 2:05 amYou are missing the point.
FACTS DONT MATTER
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ jay-rosen/ the-retreat-from-empirici_b_36772.html
Bush got elected without using facts. (can you say Swiftboat?). The fact that torutre doesn’t work is completly and utterly irrlelvant.
What is not irrelelvant is the power of TV to influence behavior in irrational ways. That should really get your attention.
February 28th, 2007 at 2:14 amBefore you judge, Kiefer’s politics:
“To a large degree they`re private, but I believe - I believe inherently that - that we have a responsibility to take care of each other, so when you can talk about socialized healthcare, absolutely, that`s a no-brainer. Free universities, absolutely, that`s a no-brainer for me. So in the definition, I guess those are leaning towards socialist politics. To me it`s common sense. And I do believe the wealthy have a responsibility to the less fortunate. Some people call that communism. I disagree. Again, it`s common sense. But I would have to say that my politics would be leaning towards the left.”
More:
KIEFER SUTHERLAND: No, what happened in Abu Ghraib was just absolutely criminal. And not only was it criminal but it was as a nation it`s going to go in and trying to tell people how to live, which is exactly what we`re doing, and we`re going to tell you that democracy and freedom and this is the way to go, and then go and behave like that. Inexcusable.
CHARLIE ROSE: But you get some grief for what the show does?
KIEFER SUTHERLAND: Absolutely. And it is widely known that torture - - you can torture someone and they`ll basically tell you exactly what you want to hear, whether it`s true or not, if you put someone in enough pain. Torture is not a way of procuring information. The way of procuring information is actually — is in fact quite the opposite, and, unfortunately, that takes a lot of time. Within the context of our show, which is a fantastical show to begin with, the torture is a dramatic device to show you how desperate a situation is.
CHARLIE ROSE: Right, right.
KIEFER SUTHERLAND: And how urgent and - and desperate these characters are to solve this one specific thing, and time is running out. And so it is a dramatic device. It is not to be confused with what we think is right or wrong.
Perhaps the army should ask George Bush, Dick Cheney, Roberto Gonzalez, and John Mccain to speak against torture. They’re responsibility to the army is slightly greater than Kiefer Sutherland’s, I think.
February 28th, 2007 at 3:44 amIsn’t hotair the site run by Michelle Malkin? If so, fair enough, it’s a site with an agenda. Before you go off at me, if I linked a Think Progress report to counter a story on freerepublic how seriously do you think I’d be taken?
The link I showed is just where the video of Ross speaking is. The report or interview was not done by hotair, it is just there much like videos are linked on this site.
February 28th, 2007 at 9:00 amStanman,
Those facts are totally debunked here,
http://blogs.lib.ncsu.edu/page/shgreene/20060908
Clearly the site you posted has an agenda. Abu Zubaydah getting waterboarded and spouting bin Al Shibh’s name did not tell us anything we did not already know. , but he did speak, which shows that waterboarding works. Whether we had the intel already not is not relevent, it is relevent that it works. Thank you for proving my point.
February 28th, 2007 at 9:07 amStanman,
February 28th, 2007 at 9:49 amYes, torture will get the victim to speak, it got Denton to speak, but the point is at that point are they going to give reliable, usable info? NO! Besides there are many other moral reasons not to torture.
But Al Shibh gave information that was reliable. So it does work and saves lives. The only moral reason I see whether or not to save innocent people or treat known terrorists nicely. Seems like a pretty easy moral choice to me.
February 28th, 2007 at 10:47 amTony Lagouranis, a former Army interrogator in Iraq, said, “In Iraq, I never saw pain produce intelligence…if anything, physical pain can strengthen the resolve to clam up.â€
Any questions?
February 28th, 2007 at 10:50 amWaterboarding is not pain, it makes the person think he is drowning. It works.
February 28th, 2007 at 11:07 amIt doesn’t hurt. What does hurt is having planes fly into the tallest building in L.A. because a terrorist was not waterboarded.
February 28th, 2007 at 1:12 pm#125 It doesn’t hurt.
You checked it personally?
What does hurt is having planes fly into the tallest building in L.A.
Newyorkers will be angry with you, you don’t give a damn where those TWO planers crashed.
because a terrorist was not waterboarded.
Comment by stanman — February 28, 2007 @ 1:12 pm
Which terrorist? And what gives you the assurance that he’s not another suicide maniacal who has let the police get him to lie about their plans and carry another terrorist act in the other side of the city or the country?
February 28th, 2007 at 2:38 pm[…] blame. It’s certainly a worthwhile area for debate and study. In that vein, it’s worth noting that a U. S. Army General asked the makers of "24" to stop promoting torture, because it’s endangering our troops and harming our national security. They blew him off, even […]
February 28th, 2007 at 3:47 pmI am utterly AMAZED how repugnant-repub rightwingnut cranks like #110 lack BOTH a sense of humour as well as the COMMON SENSE in GETTING ACCURATE INFORMATION FROM TERRORISTS–THAT’S EXACTLY HOW AMERICA IS IN THE MESS IT IS IN NOW, THANKS TO YOU JERKOFFS AND CHIMPya/Cheney/Bushland Uber Allies!!!!! AND I WOULD HAVE NO COMPUNCTIONS IN KICKING FDR IN A WHEELCHAIR, AND TRUMAN BOTH, THOUGH I AM A DEMOCRAT, ALONG WITH CHIMPya, Cheney, and YOU, #110, DOWN A STAIRCASE A LA Richard Widmark(tm) in KISS OF DEATH(tm) STYLE!!!!! “BEEG MAN…HEH HEH HEH HEH!!!!!”
February 28th, 2007 at 5:51 pmIT IS JUST A SHOW EVERYBODY RELAX ALREADY!!!!!!!!!!!!
March 6th, 2007 at 5:41 pm
March 21st, 2007 at 12:03 amNo disrespect intended, but now the Army is dealing with liberal mania? CTU (ficticious) and its ficticious star Jack Bauer are not representing the Army, or the lowlife soldiers at Abu Ghraib. My advice to this General is to continue your good work with America’s military and leave showbusiness and politics to others.