Chaos in Afghanistan.
By on Mar 4th, 2007 at 8:42 pm
Chaos in Afghanistan.
“American troops opened fire on a highway filled with civilian cars and bystanders today, American and Afghan officials said, in an incident that the Americans said left 16 civilians dead and 24 wounded as they fled the scene of a suicide car bombing in eastern Afghanistan. One American was also wounded.”
UPDATE: “Afghan journalists — some working for the Associated Press — covering the aftermath of a suicide bomb attack and shooting in eastern Afghanistan Sunday said U.S. troops deleted their photos and video and warned them not to publish or air any images of U.S. troops or a car where three Afghans were shot to death.”
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So what’s the point? Nico is upset that only one American was wounded?
March 4th, 2007 at 8:44 pm“And the beat goes on.”
March 4th, 2007 at 8:45 pmWell thats a great way to spread democracy in the Middle East. But when the troops have orders from the likes of Bush, Cheney and like minded bottom feeders, what is to be expected?
March 4th, 2007 at 8:50 pmI read the news article earlier. The incident was triggered by a car bombing near the convoy. The soldiers apparently shot at everything that moved as they fled the scene of the bomb. Later, U.S. soldiers prevented independent journalists of taking pictures of the carnage.
Expect this kind of scene to be repeated in Iraq as we put women and men in the field who have not completed their training.
March 4th, 2007 at 8:51 pmIn other news:
Air strikes on Iran could backfire: report
March 4th, 2007 at 8:55 pmSo what’s the point? Nico is upset that only one American was wounded?
Comment by US A Patriot — March 4, 2007 @ 8:44 pm
If the headline said “Iranian troops opened fire on a highway filled with civilian cars and bystanders today”, would you still say “So what’s the point?”
March 4th, 2007 at 8:57 pm#5 – BnF,
March 4th, 2007 at 8:57 pmThat link won’t work!
So what’s the point? Nico is upset that only one American was wounded?
Comment by US A Patriot — March 4, 2007 @ 8:44 pm
Only a demented moron would suggest such a thing…
The problem is that the battles in Afghanistan are going in the same direction as those in Iraq, when we should have been out of there by now. Osama bin Laden should have been captured and the United States military shouldn’t be getting beaten up by a bunch of religious nuts with weaponry made from kitchen utensils and gardening tools…
March 4th, 2007 at 8:58 pmIt’s still not clear, after all the obvious presented.
War only brings peace when it ends.
March 4th, 2007 at 8:59 pmchris compares US troops to Iranian troops! But you lefties really support our troops!
March 4th, 2007 at 9:05 pm#4 – BnF,
March 4th, 2007 at 9:06 pmActually, the Marines ‘deleted’ the PICs from the digital cameras. That actually only deletes the pointers to the files in flash memory. A skilled hacker can recover the images as long as no new shots are taken with that particular card, unless it is reformatted.
The entire aftermath of this incident was handled poorly. If they had not tried to squelch reporting of it, it would be used as a terrorist/taliban recruiting tool, but now that a cover-up was attempted on the ground only makes it a more powerful tool. If they could just admit to the chaos and that the military regrets that it occurred, then it would have mostly squelched any impact it may have had.
Also, I’m curious about the condition of the troops. How long have they been there? Are they new to the region and have lacked training, or have they been there so long that the stress that causes has led to the inability to effectively deal with an attack like this?
March 4th, 2007 at 9:07 pmchris compares US troops to Iranian troops! But you lefties really support our troops!
Comment by US A Patriot — March 4, 2007 @ 9:05 pm
No dipshit, he was comparing American civilians getting shot to Irani and Afghanistan troops being shot. Try to keep up.
March 4th, 2007 at 9:07 pmIs the point that US troops should only return fire when the Taliban forces attack our troops in areas totally free of civilians? How “reality based”!
March 4th, 2007 at 9:08 pmAshen,
I see. In typical lefty fashion, you assume American guilt right away until they are proved innocent. How patriotic of you.
March 4th, 2007 at 9:10 pm[...] in Bush Administration, Military at 6:19 pm by LeisureGuy From ThinkProgress: Chaos in [...]
March 4th, 2007 at 9:12 pmIs the point that US troops should only return fire when the Taliban forces attack our troops in areas totally free of civilians?
Comment by US A Patriot — March 4, 2007 @ 9:08 pm
No, I told you the point in #8…
Talking to you is less purposeful than talking to my cat… Sheesh.
March 4th, 2007 at 9:12 pmJesus people you’re arguing with a talking point spewing child.
March 4th, 2007 at 9:13 pmThere was no point in #8 though.
March 4th, 2007 at 9:13 pmIs the point that US troops should only return fire when the Taliban forces attack our troops in areas totally free of civilians? How “reality basedâ€!
Comment by US A Patriot — March 4, 2007 @ 9:08 pm
Actually, I wasn’t comparing American and Iranian troops, just making the point that republicans generally turn a blind eye when our own troops screw up, but are ready to pounce when others do. No, I don’t think they can fight in area totally free of civilians, but they need to know how to respond professionally when there are civilians on the battlefield. By the way, I spent 18 months in Baghdad with the US Army 1457th Engineer Combat Battallion. Republicans do not support our troops, our country, or our freedom.
March 4th, 2007 at 9:14 pm…and I’m betting you talk to your cat a lot.
March 4th, 2007 at 9:14 pmGood God. Since when do you open fire on civilians? We’ve got to get these troops trained, get them some rest or get them the hell out of there. Because these guys are either rookies or wound up so tight they’re shooting at the wrong people. Shooting unarmed civilians is not the way to win hearts and minds.
March 4th, 2007 at 9:15 pmThose guys have got to get a grip or get the hell out. Better yet, we’ve got to get Bush and Cheney out of the White House…they’re bringing us down Fast.
#16 unbelievable
I’m not even bothering to address it. Obviously the only reason it is here is to prove how loud and stupid it is.
March 4th, 2007 at 9:15 pmSo what’s the point? Nico is upset that only one American was wounded?
Comment by US A Patriot
So 16 possibly innocent people are killed and you could care less.
I see. In typical lefty fashion, you assume American guilt right away until they are proved innocent. How patriotic of you.
Comment by US A Patriot
But it’s OK to assume the Afghanis are guilty… right?
Loser.
March 4th, 2007 at 9:15 pmchris,
Democrats do not support our troops, our country, or our freedom. You are a typical example. And you’re lying – if you had really ever served, you would not be presuming our troops guilty as you’re doing.
March 4th, 2007 at 9:17 pm“But it’s OK to assume the Afghanis are guilty… right?”
Right, they didn’t fire a single shot. LOL
March 4th, 2007 at 9:18 pmBy the way, I spent 18 months in Baghdad with the US Army 1457th Engineer Combat Battallion. Republicans do not support our troops, our country, or our freedom.
Comment by chris
…and I’m betting you talk to your cat a lot.
Comment by US A Patriot
I see that you “Support the Troopsâ„¢”.
Nice way to talk to a Vet BTW.
March 4th, 2007 at 9:21 pmThere was no point in #8 though.
Comment by US A Patriot — March 4, 2007 @ 9:13 pm
I guess it doesn’t if your IQ is double digits… Explains a lot of other things about you also…
March 4th, 2007 at 9:22 pmAnd you’re lying – if you had really ever served, you would not be presuming our troops guilty as you’re doing.
Comment by US A Patriot — March 4, 2007 @ 9:17 pm
For one, you are an idiot who obviously has no idea what he/she is talking about. But, be my guest – I have already given you my first name and my unit information. My last name is LeJeune and I served in the Army from 1998 – 2006. Military records are fairly easy to obtain with the info I have just given you. I was also deployed to Kuwait in 2000.
March 4th, 2007 at 9:23 pmWinning hearts and minds.
March 4th, 2007 at 9:23 pmSoldiers over-exteded beyond the breaking point.
Situation hopeless.
We can’t expect any improvement.
There is so much wrong with this picture, and innocent people are dead.
Rape-Public-Cans are so morally and spiritually bankrupt that the now common killing of innocent civilians gives them as much pause as which way the toilet paper roll should be installed.
Hard to teach empathy and conscience to a sychophant.
March 4th, 2007 at 9:23 pmRight, they didn’t fire a single shot. LOL
Comment by US A Patriot
Yeah, that’s why the Marines deleted the photos and videos. They were obviously afraid of being vindicated by documented proof. LOL!
March 4th, 2007 at 9:24 pmHow do you say Mai lai, Abu Gahraib, and Tikrit in Afghanistan?
March 4th, 2007 at 9:24 pm…and I’m betting you talk to your cat a lot.
Comment by US A Patriot — March 4, 2007 @ 9:14 pm
Not so much. I have a day job and human friends who can answer back. But she’s definitely brighter than you – she’s able to poop in her litter box and then bury it.
March 4th, 2007 at 9:25 pm#7,
March 4th, 2007 at 9:26 pmhttp://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070305/ts_nm/iran_nuclear_report_dc_1
For one, you are an idiot who obviously has no idea what he/she is talking about. But, be my guest – I have already given you my first name and my unit information. My last name is LeJeune and I served in the Army from 1998 – 2006. Military records are fairly easy to obtain with the info I have just given you. I was also deployed to Kuwait in 2000.
Comment by chris
I think that these guys are probably deployed by the current Administration in order disrupt any real discussion on these types of boards, by sidetracking them with vitriolic nonsense.
That’s the only thing that makes any sense to me, because NOBODY can be that stupid.
March 4th, 2007 at 9:27 pmI’m not even bothering to address it. Obviously the only reason it is here is to prove how loud and stupid it is.
Comment by AshenShard — March 4, 2007 @ 9:15 pm
Unfortunately, if we just ignore it – it thinks it is right and continues unchecked. If we atleast show how it is wrong, then it has no soapbox upon which to pontificate…
I’m an eternal optimist. I think that even rabid mutts can be taught new tricks if their handlers are persistent enough :)
March 4th, 2007 at 9:29 pmWhen the IED’s go off in Iraq the American soldiers have admitted to firing on anything that moves,including civilians, and this has also been reported by the Iraqi civilians themselves. A lack of proper training? By troops rushed to battle? Who have no idea who the enemy IS? Who have no CLEAR mission?
March 4th, 2007 at 9:31 pm#14,#15 – US A Patriot,
March 4th, 2007 at 9:32 pmI was taught not to target anyone unless they were carrying a weapon and threatened you or your unit, withdrawing with a rain of fire was specifically frowned upon when in a civilian environment. Does court martial ring a bell?
Considering the replacement/recruitment problems, I would imagine battle fatigue and other warfare psychological issues are to be added to the mix in Iraq and Afghanistan… Shoot at anything that might shoot you first Syndrome?
March 4th, 2007 at 9:35 pmjpv @35 my point exactly. The trolls are only here to insult and disrupt. When we respond they have done their jobs.
March 4th, 2007 at 9:35 pmI think the point is we have young women and men in an untenable situation with insufficient training, equipment and support. Either they had orders to shoot everything in sight or they panicked.
I’m not condemning the soldiers. What should have been an international police operation became an excuse for War. Remember Bush saying we didn’t need to investigate who was behind 9/11? That he already knew it was Osama bin Laden? Remember that Bush refused to go through extradition proceedings with the Taliban when the Taliban offered up bin Laden?
Because of Bush’s doctrine of invading first and asking questions later (in secret prisons), innocent people are getting killed. THAT’S THE POINT.
March 4th, 2007 at 9:36 pmrabid mutts can be taught new tricks if their handlers are persistent enough :)
Comment by unbelievable — March 4, 2007 @ 9:29 pm
bad analogy; rabid mutts must be taken out and shot! LOL
March 4th, 2007 at 9:38 pm“The trolls are only here to insult and disrupt.”
So you admit, liberals are trolls.
March 4th, 2007 at 9:39 pm“The trolls are only here to insult and disrupt.â€
So you admit, liberals are trolls.
Comment by US A Patriot — March 4, 2007 @ 9:39 pm
From Wikipedia:
“In Internet terminology, a troll is a person who enters an established community such as an online discussion forum and intentionally tries to cause disruption, often in the form of posting messages that are inflammatory, insulting, incorrect, inaccurate, absurd, or off-topic, with the intent of provoking a reaction from others.”
This “established community” is a liberal-progressive site, so by definition, you are a troll.
March 4th, 2007 at 9:47 pmBut you lefties really support our troops!
Comment by US A Patriot — March 4, 2007 @ 9:05 pm
And what, precisely, are YOU doing this very minute to support the troops?
March 4th, 2007 at 9:47 pmA troll is someone whether wrong or wholefully wrong tries to block progress. Since Liberals are progressives, they can never be trolls.
March 4th, 2007 at 9:50 pm“…posting messages that are inflammatory, insulting, incorrect, inaccurate, absurd…”
That basically describes the content of this website, including the posts and comments.
March 4th, 2007 at 9:51 pm“Either they had orders to shoot everything in sight or they panicked.
I’m not condemning the soldiers.”
ROFLMAO!
March 4th, 2007 at 9:53 pmThat basically describes the content of this website, including the posts and comments.
Comment by US A Patriot — March 4, 2007 @ 9:51 pm
Don’t let the door hit ya on the way out!
March 4th, 2007 at 9:54 pm“Since Liberals are progressives…”
Add that to the list of lies told by the left.
March 4th, 2007 at 9:54 pm“US soldiers kill Afghan civilians.”
What, do you think, have we been for the past four years in this impossible and criminally stupid GWOT?
March 4th, 2007 at 9:56 pmAdd that to the list of lies told by the left.
Comment by US A Patriot — March 4, 2007 @ 9:54 pm
Zzzzzzzzz….
March 4th, 2007 at 10:00 pmA skilled hacker can recover the images as long as no new shots are taken with that particular card, unless it is reformatted.
Comment by WaltTheMan
I get frightened when you begin talking like that, Walt. :}
March 4th, 2007 at 10:03 pmAdd that to the list of lies told by the left.
Comment by US A Patriot — March 4, 2007 @ 9:54 pm
What list?
March 4th, 2007 at 10:03 pmAdd that to the list of lies told by the left.
Comment by US A Patriot
Attention: We have a genius here. We are all doomed in this debate.
March 4th, 2007 at 10:05 pmSome so-called patriots obviously lack the intelligence necessary to distinguish between supporting the troops and supporting the mission.
A Fox News education will do that every time. God have mercy on the troops that such patriots “support”.
March 4th, 2007 at 10:08 pmGreat, Juan.
March 4th, 2007 at 10:08 pmWe’ll never win. Guess I get to go to sleep early.
:P
These guys have a weird fascination with keeping lists.
March 4th, 2007 at 10:09 pmU.S. troops deleted their photos and video and warned them not to publish or air any images of U.S. troops or a car where three Afghans were shot to death.
Just put scared, poor kids with automatic weapons in a strange place and things like this will happen.
March 4th, 2007 at 10:11 pm“Just put scared, poor kids…”
Another one who supports our men and women in uniform! LOL
March 4th, 2007 at 10:14 pmWow. This troll is a real hard on, isn’t it?
March 4th, 2007 at 10:16 pmGuess I get to go to sleep early.
Comment by trueblue
Oh, but you always do that. ;P
March 4th, 2007 at 10:16 pmTrue,
Did you mean “hard one?”
Heh
March 4th, 2007 at 10:17 pmMistress Z-
I think the context as to this trolls persona was relayed correctly.
As for that category……
well… we’ll chat later!
March 4th, 2007 at 10:21 pm;)
Actually, Juan,
I’m beating back the sandman as I type…..
…zzzz….
March 4th, 2007 at 10:22 pm#52 – Juan C,
March 4th, 2007 at 10:24 pmI recovered a master diskette for one of my kids’ adventure programs after it had been formatted (Masking tape override by a younger brother.) in a sibling fit of pique. I was in Germany at the time. Took about three days, but had everything up and working. Just reconstructed the FAT and overrode the copy protection sector. That was back in 1984 when protection schemes were a bit less elaborate, PC’s were slower and a 10MB harddrive was leading edge.
Juan,
true is a wimp, a hard on wimp. :)
Heh.
March 4th, 2007 at 10:26 pmC’mon!
I know I’m wimpy – but it’s 10:40pm here.
Night owl is just not me. Never has been.
:(
Actually, I need to call it a night.
Nice checking in with you two.
Until tomorrow….
March 4th, 2007 at 10:31 pmtrue is a wimp, a hard on wimp. :)
Heh.
Comment by Mistress Z
Well, I have to decide that for myself… Heh. :D
March 4th, 2007 at 10:34 pmWell, I have to decide that for myself… Heh. :D
Comment by Juan C
If she wimps out like she usually does, you let me know.
Heh.
March 4th, 2007 at 10:39 pmLots of confusion here by posters. The MARSOC Marines have completed their training and have additional specialized training for what they are there for. The ROE there are tight so I have more confidence on where and who the Marines were firing at than I do from those who were shooting at the Marines. In addition, being that the Marines were MARSOC deleting pictures that might have them in them probably was prudent from their perspective.
March 4th, 2007 at 11:08 pmI am not surprised about this news article. The US rules of engagement have been questioned since the start of the Iraq invasion:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/03/12/nsas12.xml
Right, wrong? That may not be a question worth answering in the long term. Is it smart? That is the real question and that’s why the British Army refers to the US Army as “All the gear and no idea”.
The new US commander in Afghanistan is known as “Bomber McNeil”:
Another man getting unwelcome headlines here over the weekend has been the new Nato commander in Afghanistan General Dan “Bomber†McNeil, whose stated dislike of British efforts to get local people involved in countering the Taliban has led to concern that he is about to take a highly offensive approach that would be totally counter-productive and virtually ensure the local population in the south would back the Taliban against the British, Canadian and Dutch troops currently operating there
http://www.atlargely.com/2007/02/letter_from_lon.html
If you think Afghanistan is bad now, with 90% of the world’s smack coming from it today…. just wait….
March 4th, 2007 at 11:38 pmTerry, at least they’re greeting us with flowers….
March 4th, 2007 at 11:45 pmBNF – that’s a good one – “with flowers”…..
March 4th, 2007 at 11:54 pmcheck out this talk radio show
March 4th, 2007 at 11:58 pmhttp://www.iamthewitness.com/DarylBradfordSmithInterviews_Mullins26Nov2006.html
Marvelous.
March 5th, 2007 at 12:19 amI think part of the problem is that no one knows exactly WHO the enemy is over there. Too bad Bush pulled most of the troops out to send them to Iraq and failed to secure both countries. Ultimately, the blame lies with their Commander In Chief.
March 5th, 2007 at 12:34 amwhat the american troops should realise , violence breeds violence ??? the more they kill the more of the troops will get killed
Im sure they know this BUT I that what their trying to do ……..create more trouble ???
March 5th, 2007 at 7:00 amIn my view all American troops should leave and get doctors degrees to treat sick Americans at home rather than KILL KILL KILL
March 5th, 2007 at 7:01 amNice.The US marines now do not make a difference between civilians and terrorists.
Neither do Darth Cheney and Assasin Chimpya.
March 5th, 2007 at 7:25 am1) Which is it, 8 or 16 that were killed. I will go with the number from AP saying 8 as I automatically discount the biased site “American Leftist”
2) If these Marines involved were from SOC (Special Operations Command), then I can guarantee they have had more than sufficient training. SOC is the same command that oversees DELTA and SEALs. These are the experts in land warfare.
3) Yes, the incident needs to be investigated. There is probably more to it than we know. But to deny these Marines the presumption of innocents is WRONG. They are entitled to that. That is a BASIC RIGHT.
March 5th, 2007 at 8:37 amComment by hacker bob — March 5, 2007 @ 8:37 am
I agree, bob. But there are two trials. One, the legal one, the other, the trial by media. And, unfortunately, the trial by media takes place first, and shapes public opinion. And in that trial, the report that the soldiers deleted journalists photographs infers some level of guilt on the soldiers.
As I said earlier, I’m not condemning the soldiers. I cannot even begin to imagine the conditions under which these women and men must survive.
March 5th, 2007 at 8:56 amSpreading democracy. And bullets. Yay.
March 5th, 2007 at 9:58 amDUHmerica’s “best and brightest”…
…are murdering people in Iraq and Afghanistan…
…I don’t give a damn that they’ve been put in harm’s way…
…killing unarmed civilians is MURDER plain and simple…
…if they’re SCARED bring them HOME!
…before they commit any more atrocities…
…DUHmerica you are going to suffer mightily for the wrongs you have perpetrated upon innocent people…
…Disgrace and God’s curse will fall upon ALL those who compel their sons and daughters to commit MURDER…
…for profit, hegemony, and politics…
March 5th, 2007 at 10:09 amSHOOT FIRST AND ASK QUESTIONS LATER–A SWELL WAY TO WIN THE HEARTS AND MINDS OF THE POPULACE, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU SHOOT THEIR HEARTS AND MINDS OUT OF THEIR BODIES–GOOD GOING, TROOPS! WHO THE HELL WAS IN CHARGE OF COMMANDING YOU F*CK-UP JACKASSES WHO DID THE DEED? 99% OF AMERICAN TROOPS ARE CAREFUL, CONSIDERATE WARRIORS–IT’S THE 1% LOOSE CANNONS WHO CAUSE THIS KIND OF TROUBLE!!!!!
March 5th, 2007 at 2:03 pmThis has the same stench as the friendly fire killing of Pat Tillman in Afghanistan.
March 5th, 2007 at 3:48 pmFor those of you who think you know what happened with this situation, you are wrong. So far, I have not read one post from someone that was there so I thought I should grace your liberal asses with my presence. For those of you who are defending the defenders, we thank you. For you other ignorrant fuckheads…Well, I assure you that we are more than trained for the job. Oh, and the news failed to mention the numerous armed insurgents that we were engaged with. So, what you should do is…Stop listining to the news for a minute, go to your local recruiter and tell him you dont want to hide behind the fredom that others like myself provide, or shut the fuck up!
March 12th, 2007 at 2:25 amGardening Tools
Thanks for creating this blog. I thought it was a very interesting read. It is so interesting reading other peoples personal take on a subject.
April 2nd, 2008 at 5:49 ambob\’s discount
Thanks for the input
April 3rd, 2008 at 4:25 pmErin
You weave a web of lies! Lies I say.
April 6th, 2008 at 8:26 amSteve Springland Brown
April 11th, 2008 at 11:06 am