Washington Post Editorial Board Spits Out Baseless Right-Wing Talking Points On Libby Verdict
Washington Post Editorial Board Spits Out Baseless Right-Wing Talking Points On Libby Verdict
In a substance-less diatribe, the Washington Post editorial board this morning tried its best to downplay the significance of the Scooter Libby verdict. Here’s a fact-check on some of the Post’s most absurd claims:
CLAIM: Libby’s guilty verdict was “propelled not by actual wrongdoing.”
FACT: The Post Editorial Board Highlighted The ‘Seriousness’ Of Perjury Charges Against Clinton. In a Jan. 22, 1998 editorial, the Washington Post write, “The allegations against President Clinton are allegations of extremely serious crimes. … Subornation of perjury is a federal crime punishable by up to five years in prison.” On Feb. 2, 1998, the Post wrote that the “seriousness” of the charges against Clinton had “to do much more with possible perjury than with sex.” And on Dec. 13, 1998, the Post wrote: “There is no question that President Clinton committed grave offenses and aggravated them by refusing to acknowledge either the offenses themselves or their seriousness.”
CLAIM: Calling it a “sensational charge,” the Post writes that there was “no evidence that [Plame] was, in fact, covert.”
FACT: CIA, Former Colleagues, And Special Prosecutor All Report That Plame Was Covert. The CIA filed a “crime report” with the Department of Justice shortly after Novak’s column, stating that an undercover agent’s identity had been blown. Larry Johnson, a former CIA officer, said “Valerie Plame was a classmate of mine from the day she started with the CIA. … All of my classmates were undercover.” Special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald found that Plame had indeed done “covert work overseas” on counterproliferation matters in the past five years, and the CIA “was making specific efforts to conceal” her identity.
CLAIM: The Post claims that senior White House officials had not “orchestrated the leak” and that the trial “provided convincing evidence that there was no conspiracy to punish Mr. Wilson by leaking Ms. Plame’s identity.”
FACT: Cheney’s Point-man — Libby — Carefully Leaked Plame’s Identity To Reporters, White House Staff. In an article published on Jan. 26, 2007, Post writers reported “Vice President Cheney personally orchestrated his office’s 2003 efforts to rebut allegations that the administration used flawed intelligence to justify the war in Iraq.” As of that effort, handwritten notes prove that Cheney assigned Libby to be the point man for disseminating the information about Plame’s identity, which he revealed to reporters Judith Miller and Matt Cooper. Libby also enrolled Ari Fleischer and Karl Rove in his effort to disseminate Plame’s identity.
CLAIM: “It would have been sensible for Mr. Fitzgerald to end his investigation after learning about Mr. Armitage. Instead, like many Washington special prosecutors before him, he pressed on, pursuing every tangent in the case.”
FACT: Armitage told the truth; Libby refused to. Indeed, it was “sensible” for Fitzgerald to pursue Libby and question why the Vice President’s chief of staff could not tell him the truth, while Armitage could.
The Post editorial concludes: “The Wilson-Plame case, and Mr. Libby’s conviction, tell us nothing about the war in Iraq.” This naïve comment is hardly surprising, coming from a publication that bought the false Iraq intelligence that Cheney, Libby, and company were trying so hard to sell prior to the war. More distressing, however, is that the Post has been an accomplice in the White House’s effort to cover up what it knew.
Contact the Washington Post ombudsman HERE to inform them of the factual inaccuracies in their editorial.
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Damn liberal media!
March 7th, 2007 at 10:32 amThe Post has grown so much in recent months. Congratulations to them for pointing out the obvious.
March 7th, 2007 at 10:36 am[…] Bush Administration, Washington Post, GOP, Government, Media at 7:47 am by LeisureGuy ThinkProgress documents the atrocities: In a substance-less diatribe, the Washington Post editorial board this morning tried its best to […]
March 7th, 2007 at 10:36 am#
The Post has grown so much in recent months. Congratulations to them for pointing out the obvious.
Comment by Patrick1 — March 7, 2007 @ 10:36 am
OK, now I know you’re a parody troll!
March 7th, 2007 at 10:38 amFaiz - Thank you! On the occasions I have contrasted former President Clinton with a current event, leftards shreik, “Blame it all on Clinton….” I appreciate you bringing up our former President in your comparison to Libby.
As usual, the crime was the “lie”…
March 7th, 2007 at 10:44 amIMPEACH
We the people have the power — and the responsibility — to remove executives who transgress not just the law, but the rule of law.
The oaths that the President and Vice President take binds them to “preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States.” The failure to do so forms a sound basis for articles of impeachment.
The President and Vice President have failed to “preserve, protect and defend the Constitution” in the following ways:
1. They have manipulated intelligence and misled the country to justify an immoral, unjust, and unnecessary preemptive war in Iraq.
2. They have directed the government to engage in domestic spying without warrants, in direct contravention of U.S. law.
3. They have conspired to commit the torture of prisoners, in violation of the Federal Torture Act and the Geneva Convention.
4. They have ordered the indefinite detention without legal counsel, without charges and without the opportunity to appear before a civil judicial officer to challenge the detention — all in violation of U.S. law and the Bill of Rights.
When strong evidence exists of the most serious crimes, we must use impeachment — or lose the ability of the legislative branch to compel the executive branch to obey the law.
George Bush
March 7th, 2007 at 10:44 amhas led our country to a constitutional crisis, and it is our responsibility to remove him from office.
Cool.
A “pointless Washington scandal”. Still looking for those words in the Washington Post editorial archives during the Clinton Impeachment days.
They printed editorial after editorial about how serious the Clinton Impeachment (FOR PERJURY) was.
March 7th, 2007 at 10:45 amPatrick1 sez:
Is that the best you got, Patrick? Seriously?
Sheesh…I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again…some days I positively pine for Seixon.
Speaking of Seixon, his website is still down, as it has been since the Libby verdict was made public. Seems he’d rather not address this painful issue…
March 7th, 2007 at 10:45 amYeah let the WP defend and enhance such great moral values like lying, obstructing justice, twisting facts and whatever.That i call “public service”.
March 7th, 2007 at 10:50 amThe liberal media at its best.
March 7th, 2007 at 10:53 amPatrick gets his jollies by baiting the commenters here. If someone posted that drinking antifreeze was bad for you he’d be saying how great a Prestone cocktail is. Just ignore him - I hate seeing a happy troll.
March 7th, 2007 at 10:54 amShorter Post: When a material witness lies repeatedly to investigators, just move along.
March 7th, 2007 at 10:56 amBut Al Gore claimed that when he was young he worked on a farm! Hillary adopted a Southern accent when talking! Nancy Pelosi wanted a big jet! John Edwards is a faggot who lives in a nice house!
No wonder I use the Post to wipe my bummy on camping trips.
-GSD
March 7th, 2007 at 11:02 amThe Washington Post is correct. If Fitzgerald had anything he would have prosecuted Armitage who actually leaked this bureaucrat to Novak. This was a show trial for the moonbat Olbermann’s of the world and for Fitzgerald to pick up an easy paycheck.
March 7th, 2007 at 11:02 amSpeaking of Seixon,…
Comment by TripMaster Monkey
Seixon had been planning to shut it down,he said he was too busy with his new job.He might reformat and open back up in the future.
On topic: It appears that Victoria Toensing has taken over the editorial board at the Washington Post.
March 7th, 2007 at 11:04 amSpeaking of Larry Johnson,he can be found daily at his blogsite http://no quarter.com
you should point out that there was no evidence of her status provided at trial because the judge purposely excluded any such evidence, finding it to be irrelevant to the allegations that libby lied…
March 7th, 2007 at 11:07 amIt’s classic to see staunch CON men, here and everywhere in the blogosphere, running for the hills. This must be just brutal days for Fox Noise. You can almost imagine the inner-office memos from Moody about how to downplay, distract and distort the verdict.
The staunchest CON man posters still cling to two main talking points, however: 1) “She wasn’t covert, moron” and 2) “Her name exists right there in print in the ‘Who’s Who’ directory” ….
We all know the answer to 1, but for 2, while is does show her name, as being Joe Wilson’s wife, it says nothing about her employment at the CIA.
March 7th, 2007 at 11:08 amEveryone seems to forget that by outing Plame, Cheney et al outed Brewster Jennings, the CIA front company working in the ME to gather intelligence on WMD projects in various countries, including Iran. I’ve been thinking about this for a long time. Cheney et al were getting pissed that the CIA was not supporting their version of intelligence and refused to tell them what they wanted to hear. What if the Plame thing is soooo much more than just Wilson and Plame. What if, either by synchronicity, coincidence or happenstance, the Wilson / Plame connection gave them all and excuse to dismantle the organ that was not going along with the we need to attack 6 countries in 6 years neo-con plan. What if the Plame outing was just a convenient way to destroy true intelligence so that it could be replaced with folks like Doug Fieth and others. That’s the high crime here. A very high crime indeed. We, the American people, only know the name of the one agent outed, Plame. How many others, and their contacts in foreign countries / governments, suffered similar or more fatal fates?
March 7th, 2007 at 11:12 amIf you are covert you don’t appear on the cover of Vanity Fair. If this is the left’s idea of a spy then it is small wonder we were attacked four timesin the 90s by Al Qaeda leading up to 9/11 with no response.
March 7th, 2007 at 11:14 amJohn Wilkes booth should be pardoned, as he didn’t kill Lincoln, the bullet did.
March 7th, 2007 at 11:15 amThe staunchest CON man posters still cling to two main talking points, however: 1) “She wasn’t covert, moron†and 2) “Her name exists right there in print in the ‘Who’s Who’ directory†….
We all know the answer to 1, but for 2, while is does show her name, as being Joe Wilson’s wife, it says nothing about her employment at the CIA.
Comment by Fitz for president — March 7, 2007 @ 11:08 am
Careful, reasoned argument has never been a strong point for conservatives, but now that the Bush administration is circling the drain, I’m sure we can expect to read and hear some real doozies.
Maybe in a last gasp effort, they’ll try pointing out that Valerie Plame’s name was no secret because it’s written right there on her birth certificate.
March 7th, 2007 at 11:20 amThe crime is that Bush should cleaned out this nest of Al Qaeda operatives like Plame when he first came into office.
March 7th, 2007 at 11:20 amThe Washington Post is correct. If Fitzgerald had anything he would have prosecuted Armitage who actually leaked this bureaucrat to Novak. This was a show trial for the moonbat Olbermann’s of the world and for Fitzgerald to pick up an easy paycheck.
The point, Genius, is that Libby’s false statements made determination as to whether a law was broken impossible.
But then, you probably knew that already, didn’t you? Anything for party and power, right, Patrick?
March 7th, 2007 at 11:22 am[…] ThinkProgress has a good post up looking at the wingnut talking points in Hiatt’s WaPo editorial. Indeed, it’s important to note that there’s not much in the original editorial that isn’t a wingnut talking point. […]
March 7th, 2007 at 11:22 amAs of comment 20, I’d say it’s obvious that P is just here for attention. I concur with the above; ignore him.
March 7th, 2007 at 11:23 amWhat if the Plame outing was just a convenient way to destroy true intelligence so that it could be replaced with folks like Doug Fieth and others.
Comment by po
Sounds plausible to me.
March 7th, 2007 at 11:23 amThe Republicans are once again showing their hypocracy: surprise, surprise. Why don’t they see that it’s because Libby lied and obstructed justice that there is no underlying crime being prosecuted. What’s weird for me is that this is the group that is supposed to be on high moral ground. Ha! Hypocrits, one and all!
March 7th, 2007 at 11:28 am———————————————————————————————–
Trip,
Seixon closed down his blog two or so weeks ago. He sent his regards to allies and opponents both. The above is kind of gracious (for a rational simian) and gives hope. I hope.
Oh, and without Brewster Jennings we’re soooo synchronistically, synchronicitiously doomed, doooomed, doooooomed!
March 7th, 2007 at 11:33 am#24 Bob
Remember when they ran on the issue of personal responsibility and accountability? What ever happened to that? Or was that just a cough medicine hallucination I had?
March 7th, 2007 at 11:34 amJuror Denis Collins on Wednesday summed up the dilemma that he and his associates faced behind closed doors. “There was a frustration that we were trying someone for telling a lie apparently about an event that never became important enough to file charges anywhere else,” he said on ABC’s “Good Morning America.”
Associated Press
March 7th, 2007 at 11:36 amI’ve long regarded the Washington Post as something of a “small-town newspaper.” Just like a small daily paper in, say, Lima, Ohio (no criticism intended to readers from Lima), the Post reports lots of Beltway events just like small city dailys cover local events by publishing light-weight puff pieces.
March 7th, 2007 at 11:38 amI accidently posted the following on the wrong thread below.
Regarding Valerie Plame’s employment status:
Newly released court papers could put holes in the defense of Dick Cheney’s former chief of staff, I. Lewis (Scooter) Libby, in the Valerie Plame leak case. Lawyers for Libby, and White House allies, have repeatedly questioned whether Plame, the wife of White House critic Joe Wilson, really had covert status when she was outed to the media in July 2003. But special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald found that Plame had indeed done covert work overseas on counterproliferation matters in the past five years, and the CIA was making specific efforts to conceal her identity, according to newly released portions of a judge’s opinion. (A CIA spokesman at the time is quoted as saying Plame was “unlikely†to take further trips overseas, though.)
March 7th, 2007 at 11:41 amSteve,
Everyone associated with Brewster Jennings was outed as a CIA operative. People may have been killed, CIA operations were compromised, and people on the right make jokes.
Once again, for the right wing we see that it’s pretty much anything goes where party and power are concerned. What a pack of dishonest, hypocritical moral lepers. The one saving grace is that wingnuts are their own worst enemy, and the American People are seeing them for what they really are.
March 7th, 2007 at 11:41 amWrong. Since Novak told Fitzgerald where he got Plames name. Libby was nothing to the investigation. There was no crime here. Sorry lefties.
March 7th, 2007 at 11:42 amExley,
March 7th, 2007 at 11:44 amPlease cite link to the transcript you’re quoting. From the other quotes I’ve seen from his appearance, it would seem you’re taking what he said out of context (if you’re even quoting Collins accurately).
Shorter wingnuts: “we wuz robbed”!
Bottom line, crybabies: a jury of his peers spent 10 days deliberating over Libby’s fate, and found him guilty as charged for obstructing justice and perjury, crimes which wingnuts USED to find important.
And now, the rest of the house of cards will fall.
March 7th, 2007 at 11:47 amI have no more faith in the Post. When I was stationed in DC it used to be the more sane of the two papers but no longer. Thank you TP for pointing out facts. I have written to the Post stating they have no integrity left. Luckily, this story won’t die and will most likely grow.
Exley, don’t you remember when Fitzgerald said the obstruction was so thick it was next to impossible to find if worse was commited. You are also ignoring the second fact in this thread:
This ball is going to bounce off of a lot of Bush’s cabinet and it will leave a stain for years to come.
March 7th, 2007 at 11:48 amPatrick1, just because some reporters (Pincus, Woodward, Cooper) did not take the bait and copy down the information fed to them by Libby and Fleisher about Valerie Plame (who was a covert officer as court records reveal), doesn’t mean that a crime was not committed.
And of course, now that we know that Libby is a convicted perjurer and obstructor of justice, the next question is why did he lie. Or more to the point, what and who was he trying to protect. Because it seems hard to believe that committing a felony was not part of his job description–or was it, on the QT & hush, hush?
March 7th, 2007 at 11:48 am[…] Think Progress » Washington Post Editorial Board Spits Out Baseless Right-Wing Talking Points On Li… […]
March 7th, 2007 at 11:49 amMisc,
It is not a transcript. It is from an AP article. Here ya go:
http://news.yahoo.com/ s/ ap/ 20070307/ ap_on_go_pr_wh/ cia_leak_trial
March 7th, 2007 at 11:50 amThe Post editorial page is competing with that of the WSJ for title of “Most Wingnutty”. It’s truly sad to see what they’ve come to, but this is hardly a new development. They spent much of the 90’s ignoring any and all exhonerating information about Clinton, and later even admitted they were out to get him.
I don’t know what it would take to clean house over there. Perhaps only damage to the pocketbook would get their attention.
March 7th, 2007 at 11:52 amExley,
Thanks for the leak.
Also from his appearance:
“Someone on the jury said he [Libby] was taking one for the team,” Collins said today on “Good Morning America.” “I think that was definitely the feeling.”
Collins said it was clear to the jury that Libby had been “sent out” to talk to reporters about Wilson and Plame.
“The defense said in effect he was putting his neck into the meat grinder,” Collins said.
The jury also heard testimony that former Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage and Bush adviser Karl Rove were behind the initial leak to reporters about Plame’s identity.
Collins said that was a source of frustration for the jurors.
“I can only say that three or four times during this trial someone would say, ‘What are we doing here? Where are these other guys?’” he said.
http://www.abcnews.go.com/ GMA/ story?id=2930733&page=1
Sounds to me like a more accurate interpretation is not that Collins felt “no underlying crime was committed” (the current wingnut talking point), but rather expressing frustration that the real bad actors hadn’t gotten nailed.
March 7th, 2007 at 11:56 amAs Wonkette and the Washington Post detail, the conviction of Scooter Libby is providing many opportunities for fun and profit:
- “The Sentence Scooter Contest.”
- “Guess Libby’s Pardon Date, Win a T-Shirt.”
March 7th, 2007 at 11:58 amNever heard any of the VP’s apologists complain about the original crime being sited for Muhammad Salah’s trial did we? Real bad guys we don’t care if they get a fair trial, but a loyal patriot like Scooter, just doing his job to save us from the terrible Joe Wilson, he deserves a medal of Freedom. Read Glenn Greenwald’s post today in Salon, says it all, perfectly.
March 7th, 2007 at 11:59 amPeople may have been killed…
Comment by Misc — March 7, 2007 @ 11:41 am
——————————————————————————–
Prove it. Link it.
March 7th, 2007 at 11:59 amIf you are covert you don’t appear on the cover of Vanity Fair. If this is the left’s idea of a spy then it is small wonder we were attacked four timesin the 90s by Al Qaeda leading up to 9/11 with no response.
Comment by Patrick1 — March 7, 2007 @ 11:14 am
She wasn’t on the cover, you dolt. Viggo Mortensen was.
March 7th, 2007 at 12:02 pmer — should be “Exley, thanks for the link. :)
Got Plamegate on my mind.
Stevesh,
People may be killed when undercover agents are outed. That’s not exactly rocket science, to most people (evidently excluding yourself).
As I’m sure you’re well aware, proving things one way or another would require the CIA to declassify any damage assessments they’ve done. So you’re being doubly disingenuous by responding the way you did.
Once again, wingnuts on display.
March 7th, 2007 at 12:04 pmHiB,
“don’t you remember when Fitzgerald said the obstruction was so thick it was next to impossible to find if worse was commited.”
I do not remember those exact words. I do remember his analogy about someone throwing dirt into an umpire’s eyes or some such thing.
Look, I am not saying Libby did not commit a crime. He was tried by a jury of his peers, who took a long time deliberating. And now he will have to face the consequences of his actions.
But, at the end of the day, this was not a “scandal” many people originally believed it to be. No one was convicted or even indicted for “outing” Plame. Fitz knew very only on that it was Armitage who was Novak’s source and that he had commited no crime. And this idea that Libby’s perjury and obstruction are the reasons the investigation did not go any further does not hold water. All Libby did was lie (according to the jury) about who and when he heard about Plame. But Fitz now knows when Libby received that information. That is how he was able to convict Libby. So, any information that Libby withheld or lied about is now known to Fitz…and still he chose not to indict anyone else.
Perjury and obstruction are serious crimes. Serious enough, I thought, to have warranted the impeachment of President Clinton. And serious enough for Libby to have been prosecuted. But, in the end, this entire matter came down to convicting someone for saying that he learned information from Tim Russert when he really learned about it from Ari Fleischer.
March 7th, 2007 at 12:07 pmPeople may have been killed…
Comment by Misc — March 7, 2007 @ 11:41 am
——————————————————————————–
Prove it. Link it.
Comment by stevesh
How is this? Does that prove to you that people may have been killed because of this leak? Misc. never stated that people were killed.
March 7th, 2007 at 12:07 pmSo all of you who think destroying Brewster Jennings casued no problems, please tell us why the CIA, yes, the CIA run by Georgie “Slamdunk” Tenet (not some lefty), asked the DOJ to investigate. Do you really think it was just because of Valerie? If so, you’re insane. The outing destroyed a taxpayer funded enterprise being used to gather intelligence on what is suppose to be the nation’s number 1 priority, WMD. It probably took a while to set up, fund and make the right connections. Why is that so unimportant to y’all? Do you think intelligence just falls off trees? Or maybe we can just get it all from satellites (it’s worked so well in the past). Pathetic.
March 7th, 2007 at 12:08 pmDon’t people understand that this was about Joe Wilson calling the VP to go ahead and lie to theAmerican people because he knew what his wife knew, that Valerie’s operation wasn’t finding anything they could use to attack Iran while she was working at BJ. Think about it. The VP usurped the CIA and what could they do? The point you have to consider above all else, if there wasn’t anything to the substance of Joe Wilson’s claims then WHY DID THE 16 WORDS HAVE TO BE REMOVED FROM THE SOU SPEECH? Care to answer that one anyone?
March 7th, 2007 at 12:08 pm#26 Ashen
Yes, that’s partly what I’m saying. They want to claim moral high ground, but in the end it’s only hollow rhetoric. Bush ran on cleaning up the Executive in 2000, and six years later it’s not just more of the same but a million times worse since they are playing with our national security as a political football. They are prety much doing the opposite of the rhetoric that they spew out: hypocrits. Too bad it’s not a Dem pres doing all this, then they’d be throwing a fit. Less than two years and they will be. You watch, everything they are defending Bush doing now, when a Dem gets in the White house, Reps will be saying the exact opposite of what they’re saying and have been saying. It’s already happened in Congress: filibusters, not wanting a straight ‘up or down vote’, squshing debate. Hypocrits one and all!
March 7th, 2007 at 12:11 pm#34 HiB,
“don’t you remember when Fitzgerald said the obstruction was so thick it was next to impossible to find if worse was commited.”
I do not remember those exact words. I do remember his analogy about someone throwing dirt into an umpire’s eyes or some such thing.
Look, I am not saying Libby did not commit a crime. He was tried by a jury of his peers, who took a long time deliberating. And now he will have to face the consequences of his actions.
But, at the end of the day, this was not a “scandal” many people originally believed it to be. No one was convicted or even indicted for “outing” Plame. Fitz knew very early on that it was Armitage who was Novak’s source and that he had commited no crime.
And this idea that Libby’s perjury and obstruction are the reasons the investigation did not go any further does not hold water. According t Fitz and the jury, all Libby did was lie about who and when he heard about Plame. But Fitz now knows when Libby received that information. That is how he was able to convict Libby. So, any information that Libby withheld or lied about is now known to Fitz…and still he chose not to indict anyone else.
Perjury and obstruction are serious crimes. Serious enough, I thought, to have warranted the impeachment of President Clinton. And serious enough for Libby to have been prosecuted. But, in the end, this entire matter came down to convicting someone for saying that he learned information from Tim Russert when he really learned about it from Ari Fleischer.
March 7th, 2007 at 12:21 pmIn stark contrast to the WP editorial opinion is NYTime’s
March 7th, 2007 at 12:22 pmhttp://www.nytimes.com/ 2007/ 03/ 07/ opinion/ 07weds1.html?ex=1330923600&en=d00614c0b4047f22&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss
Also, why are people responding to patrick1?
Life’s too short.
Also, why are people responding to patrick1?
Life’s too short.
Comment by debkakes — March 7, 2007 @ 12:22 pm
Mea culpa. But when someone perpetuates the lie that Valerie Plame appeared on the cover of Vanity Fair, you just have to call them on it.
March 7th, 2007 at 12:33 pmFrom the Trib 3/11/06:
Plame’s identity, if truly a secret, was thinly veiled
BY JOHN CREWDSON
Chicago Tribune
WASHINGTON - The question of whether Valerie Plame’s employment by the Central Intelligence Agency was a secret is the key issue in the two-year investigation to determine if someone broke the law by leaking her CIA affiliation to the news media.
Federal prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald contends that Plame’s friends “had no idea she had another life.” But Plame’s secret life could be easily penetrated with the right computer sleuthing and an understanding of how the CIA’s covert employees work.
When the Chicago Tribune searched for Plame on an Internet service that sells public information about private individuals to its subscribers, it got a report of more than 7,600 words. Included was the fact that in the early 1990s her address was “AMERICAN EMBASSY ATHENS ST, APO NEW YORK NY 09255.”
A former senior American diplomat in Athens, who remembers Plame as “pleasant, very well-read, bright,” said he had been aware that Plame, who was posing as a junior consular officer, really worked for the CIA.
According to CIA veterans, U.S. intelligence officers working in American embassies under “diplomatic cover” are almost invariably known to friendly and opposition intelligence services alike.
“If you were in an embassy,” said a former CIA officer who posed as a U.S. diplomat in several countries, “you could count 100 percent on the Soviets knowing.”
March 7th, 2007 at 12:35 pm“Prove it. Link it.
Comment by stevesh”
dumbest post ever.
March 7th, 2007 at 12:35 pmSo stevish, do you think we should do away with the exclusionary rule?
March 7th, 2007 at 12:41 pmComment by stevesh — March 7, 2007 @ 12:35 pm
Comment by pgw — March 7, 2007 @ 12:35 pm
Synchronicity!!
March 7th, 2007 at 12:45 pmI went to Angry One’s link at #39 about guessing Libby’s pardon date and at the bottom of the article there was this:
“James Glassman, television pundit, American Enterprise Institute scholar, former editor of Roll Call, former Washington Post columnist and author of books including our favorite — “Dow 36,000: The New Strategy for Profiting From the Coming Rise in the Stock Market” — is said to be getting the job of chairman of the Broadcasting Board of Governors, a part-time — but time-consuming — gig overseeing the Voice of America, Radio Free Europe, Radio Free Asia, the Middle East Broadcasting Networks and the Cuba broadcasting operation.”
I find it depressing to hear about an AEI guy overseeing our propaganda channels. I guess I should do some research on James Glassman before I get too depressed.
March 7th, 2007 at 12:49 pmso you thought your post was dumb too?
March 7th, 2007 at 12:49 pmPatrick1 is a sad little troll. Trying to explain anything to him is futile. Your dog understands policy better than he does.
March 7th, 2007 at 12:53 pmConclusion, watching Fox News and studying WH talking points causes dementia.
Gosh, Stevesh, I didn’t know we were still fighting the Soviets. I thought our real enemy was Al-Q and Iran. Since the Soviets and Iranians were so tight, I’m certain that they passed on all of their sensitive information to each of the Iranian governements that have been in place since, when, the fall of the Soviet Union. Stop living in the past, like Condi, and we’ll all be a lot better off. Remember, we live in a different world post 9/11. What joke. All you care is party. Nothing about country or the individuals who serve it. A true patriot.
March 7th, 2007 at 12:53 pm‘Patrick1′ posted:
“The Washington Post is correct. If Fitzgerald had anything he would have prosecuted Armitage who actually leaked this bureaucrat to Novak.”
Actually, Armitage merely revealed Mrs. Plames NAME and cover (which was known by many), he is NOT the one responsible for leaking her UNDERCOVER IDENTITY. The latter is a crime, the former is not.
You are as clueless as The Wash Post.
March 7th, 2007 at 12:58 pmBut Plame’s secret life could be easily penetrated with the right computer sleuthing and an understanding of how the CIA’s covert employees work.
Comment by stevesh
Or you could just ask a corrupt White House official.
All the rest you cut and pasted was pretty thin. Guessing that someone is a CIA operative is much different than knowing it because someone gave you that classified information. Nice try but it looks like you’re back to zero.
March 7th, 2007 at 12:58 pmSuch synchronicity in Stevesh’s post. I just read that one of the CIA’s secret prisions was a former Soviet prison in Poland. I thought the old adage was if you can’t beat them, join them. Seems the GOPs mantra is if you beat them, join in their tactics anyway. Long live indefinite detention.
The one question all you Bush-loving folks need to be asking though, is which party or party faction gets to choose who lives in a clean, white, 10 X 8 room for the rest of their lives without anyone knowning. I love the beach, but can only get to Cuba via the CIA or DOD. Don’t you just love the post 9/11 world y’all have created. It’s like bad science fiction, only so much more detailed.
March 7th, 2007 at 1:01 pmplus there’s that tiny part about armitage not lying to a grand jury
March 7th, 2007 at 1:04 pmHuge
waste
of
money
March 7th, 2007 at 1:12 pm“Who are you and what have you done to the WaPo editorial board?”
Cheers,
March 7th, 2007 at 1:13 pmCLAIM: Libby’s guilty verdict was “propelled not by actual wrongdoing.â€
This is a stupid claim. A jury of his peers found him guilty. Denying it is pointless as anyone can show the jury did in fact find him guilty thus he certainly is guilty.
CLAIM: Calling it a “sensational charge,†the Post writes that there was “no evidence that [Plame] was, in fact, covert.â€
I believe the CIA provided more then enough evidence to prove Plame was in fact covert. I can see how they can try and pull this, but the public won’t buy it. If the CIA tells us so, we believe it (or at least the TP crowd does). I also believe it as the CIA is a force looking out for American interests all the time and they are the protectors of us. Trying to belittle the CIA is wrong and unfortunate. The Post should be ashamed of itself as anyone belittling service men and women protecting us should be ashamed.
CLAIM: The Post claims that senior White House officials had not “orchestrated the leak†and that the trial “provided convincing evidence that there was no conspiracy to punish Mr. Wilson by leaking Ms. Plame’s identity.â€
This claim currently seems to stand up. TP fails to prove anything here. Cheney certainly used his office to counter those that tried to claim He and Bush intentially used faulty evidence that they knew at the time was faulty. I think this needs to be investigated further, but currently this is only an opinion. If they ever find solid evidence that Bush and Cheney knew the evidence wasn’t correct beforehand, they should both be impeached and imprisoned.
CLAIM: “It would have been sensible for Mr. Fitzgerald to end his investigation after learning about Mr. Armitage. Instead, like many Washington special prosecutors before him, he pressed on, pursuing every tangent in the case.â€
Fitzgerald was completely correct. This case was about whether Libby lied or not. It wasn’t about whether the evidence to support the Iraq was was true or not. We know now that the evidence about the WMD’s was incorrect. Again, Libby lied about the Plame thing and he should have been prosecuted. Further investigation would be a good idea to see if anyone else lied because currently there is no solid evidence that anyone lied.
Solid post TP but you stretched it a bit with the Cheney thing. Stay on top of it though and report back to us if you ever find any solid evidence there. Your opinion, which you gave in this case, is fine as long as you state it is simply your opinion and nothing more.
March 7th, 2007 at 1:15 pmArms Control Association/Arms Control Today (November 2003)www.armscontrol.org:
Russia’s Relationship
Because of its direct nuclear cooperation with Iran, Russia holds the most direct influence over Iran’s nuclear future. Moreover, Moscow and Tehran also maintain close cooperation and possess mutual interests in a variety of spheres, especially as bordering states.8 Loss of Russia’s strategic backing in a variety of international fora would be a crucial loss to Tehran and a consideration not taken lightly by the regime. Thus, Russian pressure can be a crucial lever on Tehran to curtail its nuclear program. Until 2003, Moscow was a vocal defender of its nuclear cooperation with Iran and the peaceful intentions of Tehran’s nuclear program.
March 7th, 2007 at 1:15 pmstevesh has it right.
March 7th, 2007 at 1:21 pmRussia is our enemy.
Chicoms are our enemy.
Korean couple two houses down are your enemy.
That dark skinned couple who drive an economy car on the next block are your enemy.
Go get em.
One used to be able to count on the WaPo and the NYT for the full story and the facts - not any more. They have besmirched their own reputation. I cannot answer why they would prostitute themselves, but they have.
March 7th, 2007 at 1:23 pmhey Cyncial implants, what did we spend on the trial of say, these 2 guys, Abdelhaleem Al-Ashqar and Muhammad Salah,on federal racketeering charges? Or Sami al-arian’s? Ironic isn’t it you don’t hear any of the Scooter apologists wondering what happened to the original charges in those cases.
March 7th, 2007 at 1:23 pmI have this ongoing debate with this neo-con man on another political forum, whereby he asserts that Wilson is the liar in all this and that Plame DID send him on the trip. Isokoff/Corn’s “Hubris” tells us she merely set up the meeting that high-level CIA officials requested, and that Wilson was merely the “most qualified man, perhaps in the world” to handle the subject of uranium in Niger.
however, he also INSISTS that evidence exists that Iraq DID INDEED look into purchasing uranium from that country in 99 and was rejected, and that this “evidence” makes the overall OVP claim and “16 Words” assertion somehow valid… Can anyone refute this?
March 7th, 2007 at 1:23 pmstevesh:
According to CIA veterans, U.S. intelligence officers working in American embassies under “diplomatic cover†are almost invariably known to friendly and opposition intelligence services alike.
Plame was not under diplomatic cover. She was a NOC.
May well be that the good intelligence services know at least some of the NOCs too, but everyone knows that a fairly substantial portion of the diplomatic staff anywhere are spooks. That’s how all countries play the game; “diplomats” are given immunity and are simply ‘disinvited’ when they get to be too annoying….
Cheers,
March 7th, 2007 at 1:25 pmThe point about Niger is very simple for those who read to understand. Saddam already had 500mt of yellowcake and didn’t do anything with it, why would he have needed more?
March 7th, 2007 at 1:27 pmI have this ongoing debate with this neo-con man on another political forum…[who] INSISTS that evidence exists that Iraq DID INDEED look into purchasing uranium from that country in 99 and was rejected, and that this “evidence†makes the overall OVP claim and “16 Words†assertion somehow valid… Can anyone refute this?
Comment by Fitz for president — March 7, 2007 @ 1:23 pm
Without knowing where he got the information for this assertion why bother trying to refute the claim?
March 7th, 2007 at 1:31 pmWhy does the Washington Post hate democracy?
March 7th, 2007 at 1:36 pmHey Fitz for Pres — no one can honestly refute your neo-con friend’s assertions because they are true.
Of course that won’t stop the lying wackjobs on this site from trying….
March 7th, 2007 at 1:36 pmSo your point Stevesh, in 65, must be that because Russia wants to sell Iran some nuke components and other goodies that the Russians will give the Iranians everything, including the names of all possible US spies going as far back as, what, 1917? Yeah, riiiiiiight. Makes sense. I’m sure we share that with all of our European friends as well (do we have any more friends there?). For some reason, I somehow doubt this. But, don’t stop believing. You hold on to that feeling. A thousand point of light people, don’t stop believing ohhhhh ohhhh! The rapture is just around the corner. Peace (but for Stevesh and Patrick1 — WAR. feel better?)
March 7th, 2007 at 1:39 pm“The point about Niger is very simple for those who read to understand. Saddam already had 500mt of yellowcake and didn’t do anything with it, why would he have needed more?
Comment by the fly-man”
Help me understand the logic here Fly — because someone has a certain amount of something, that means they will not try to get more of it?
You mean like rich people who don’t try to make more money? Or powerful people who don’t try to acquire more power?
Guess you better retake the logic course, fly-baby.
March 7th, 2007 at 1:42 pmWaPo has to duck for cover. The journalists came out of this with a black eye of their own. Libby did commit a crime — the jury says so. Armitage may have been the first, but he was hardly the only one leaking Plame’s name. Six reporters (at least) were given her name and place of employment. Cheney had his handwriting all over it.
March 7th, 2007 at 1:47 pmComment by po — March 7, 2007 @ 1:39 pm
Yes, po, that is my point in 65.
March 7th, 2007 at 1:48 pmSaline Implants,The 500 mt was already under the inspection of the IAEA and he couldn’t do anything with that what makes you think he could get more? The protocols for acquiring these materials involves a consortium and several allied players, the Niger purchase was just a ruse. Again, if it was true about the acquisition why did the 16 words have to be removed from the SOU speech? There, how’s that for logic?
March 7th, 2007 at 1:56 pmStevesh. You live in a dream world. No country is that tight with any other country. I mean, really, the Isrealis spy on the US regularly even though we act as if they are part of our family and give them a lot of intel.
No body shares everything with everyone. Besides, needing funds, Russia would probably be just as happy if we destroyed everything they’ve sold the Iranians so they’ll have to buy it all over again.
Keep deluding yourself that everyone knew the real deal about ValP and BJ. And keep believing that lying about a BJ warrants removal from office while outing an entire covert operation is really no bid deal at all.
March 7th, 2007 at 1:57 pmFitz,
I agree with #72. It is pointless to argue with people that simply use opinions and “facts” they can’t show a source for. It is kinda like when people scream that Bush intentially lied about the evidence for the Iraq war and should be impeached. Against my better judgement, I often get in arugements with these types which is fruitless. Just like your friend, these people are simply venting their opinions which are based on absolutely nothing. Their arguements fail to even be an arguement let alone a good one.
March 7th, 2007 at 2:25 pmRoger Roger is it not a fact that 16 words had to be removed from the SOU speech? What part of that action to remove words which were deemed UNTRUE in a formal presentation by the President of the United States is an opinion? This is the one hurdle no one can get over. Here, read the weasel ‘facts” from Mr. Ari’s press briefing regarding the words.
March 7th, 2007 at 2:31 pmhttp://www.whitehouse.gov/ news/ releases/ 2003/ 07/ 20030714-4.html
so… since when does TP have a problem with
fire dog lake dot com ???
i can’t seem to get a good story posted…
March 7th, 2007 at 2:35 pmcheck it out…
Appreciated, but I never let them get away with such hollow assertions, and fight to the death… I believe if John Kerry did that in 2004, the world would be a better place today.
Anyhow, I have found the rebuttal on my own. It is located on page 93 of “Hubris:” In ‘99, Wilson, in Niger on business, was asked to look into an A.Q. Khan, a PAKISTANI nuclear scientist who might have connections to Niger uranium. What the Con man is doing, in typical style, is changing the culprit and suggesting there was documentation of an IRAQI link to Niger uranium in 1999.
You see, under the rock of every Bush League talking point, there are always bugs. You just gotta look.
March 7th, 2007 at 2:44 pmIt should be clear to everyone now that the Washington Post has been completely comprimised as a legitimate source of news and information. Whoever the owners of that paper are have obviously decided that they are more interested in perpetuating the reign of Bush Co. at the expense of responsible reporting.
March 7th, 2007 at 3:00 pmWell, you got your guy. Case closed. Problem solved. Money well spent. Now everyone can get back to the people’s business. Well done!
March 7th, 2007 at 3:01 pmComment by katy #83
katy,
Seems like TP has installed some new software that…
…makes it difficult…
…to get more than one post on a thread…
…at least that’s been the case for me…
…since they installed their new “server”…
…don’t even know if THIS one will post…
…HERE GOES!
March 7th, 2007 at 3:07 pmThe leaker was not got. The case is likely closed, but only because Scooter lied. The problem is not solved and the money to convict this liar under oath was not money well spent, but was spent necessarily. Those of your ilk aren’t really in doing the people’s business, so don’t even pretend.
March 7th, 2007 at 3:08 pmProsecutor Patrick Fitzgerald can’t be doing anything but shamefully, ‘pounding on his ‘heartless,empty chest’ after spending millions in demolishing the character and reprutation of a HUMAN BEING with his “Quixotic and Pyrrhic” victory(?). He is a literal disgrace to the legal and Justice establishment in this Country!
If he feels no SHAME for his dogged determination to destroy, simply for the self-satisfaction of appeasing and ‘feeding to the Lions’, the ‘bloody remains’ of Mr.Libby, to the virtual ‘Collisium’ of the ‘blood-thirsting, salivating media, then he is beyond redemptiom as a human being. His blatent, purely ego-driven objective of the political assination of a fellow human exposes him to being totally lacking in character, principle and scruples, terms, the likes of which, I would consider the HALLMARKS of a severe character disorder of a unsatiable appetite of monstrous proportions.
This entire prosecution and his obsession to achieve the ‘annihilation’ of Mr. Libby was no more than naked, unashamed and an all-consuming, near-sadistic crusading scourge. And he can look in the mirror and se NOTHING because that is THE BEST he can present of himself. He and Mr. Wilson AND ‘Mrs. Wilson’ are despicable people ‘cut from the very same cloth’ in my opinion.
James E. Girzone
March 7th, 2007 at 3:08 pmTroy, New York
#82 They had to remove those words because they could verify if it was true or not at the time. Furthermore, A British intelligence review released July 14 calls Bush’s 16 words “well founded.†A separate report by the US Senate Intelligence Committee said July 7 that the US also had similar information from “a number of intelligence reports,†a fact that was classified at the time Bush spoke. Both the US and British investigations make clear that some forged Italian documents, exposed as fakes soon after Bush spoke, were not the basis for the British intelligence Bush cited, or the CIA’s conclusion that Iraq was trying to get uranium.
Basically, he wasn’t allowed to use those words because they couldn’t be verified. Either way, that certainly doesn’t prove Bush or Cheney knew any of the intel was false beforehand. The CIA was still concluding that Iraq was trying to get Uranium and probably had it. This evidence was provided to the UN and our congress. Many Dems who I assume checked this stuff out themselves before voting came to the same conclusion Bush did. You folks even Blame Clinton for voting yes. It isn’t hers or Bush’s fault that some of the evidence turned out to be faulty. They simply didn’t know at the time. They both obviously trusted their gut and went with what the CIA and the British Intel forces said. It is damn regretable that the intel was wrong and I have said many times the Iraq war was a mistake.
Trying to currently take it further and put specific blame on someone like the President is unfounded without facts. He didn’t know the intel was faulty nor did Clinton, Kerry, or any other Congress member. Kinda tough to blame them using Hindsight without proof any of them knew the intel was wrong before approving the war.
March 7th, 2007 at 3:11 pmLooks like Bushiva…
…is calling in his corporate chits…
March 7th, 2007 at 3:15 pmThe fall of this skilled and long-respected public servant is particularly sobering because it arose from a Washington scandal remarkable for its lack of substance. It was propelled not by actual wrongdoing but by inflated and frequently false claims, and by the aggressive and occasionally reckless response of senior Bush administration officials — culminating in Mr. Libby’s perjury.
Mr. Wilson was embraced by many because he was early in publicly charging that the Bush administration had “twisted,” if not invented, facts in making the case for war against Iraq. In conversations with journalists or in a July 6, 2003, op-ed, he claimed to have debunked evidence that Iraq was seeking uranium from Niger; suggested that he had been dispatched by Mr. Cheney to look into the matter; and alleged that his report had circulated at the highest levels of the administration.
A bipartisan investigation by the Senate intelligence committee subsequently established that all of these claims were false — and that Mr. Wilson was recommended for the Niger trip by Ms. Plame, his wife. When this fact, along with Ms. Plame’s name, was disclosed in a column by Robert D. Novak, Mr. Wilson advanced yet another sensational charge: that his wife was a covert CIA operative and that senior White House officials had orchestrated the leak of her name to destroy her career and thus punish Mr. Wilson.
The partisan furor over this allegation led to the appointment of special prosecutor Patrick J. Fitzgerald. Yet after two years of investigation, Mr. Fitzgerald charged no one with a crime for leaking Ms. Plame’s name. In fact, he learned early on that Mr. Novak’s primary source was former deputy secretary of state Richard L. Armitage, an unlikely tool of the White House. The trial has provided convincing evidence that there was no conspiracy to punish Mr. Wilson by leaking Ms. Plame’s identity — and no evidence that she was, in fact, covert.
It would have been sensible for Mr. Fitzgerald to end his investigation after learning about Mr. Armitage. Instead, like many Washington special prosecutors before him, he pressed on, pursuing every tangent in the case.
The Washington Post
Looks like they are finallly coming out of their long liberal nightmare. They have grown!
March 7th, 2007 at 3:39 pmby the way, what are we to make of the “bi-partisaned” Senate Intel Report of three years ago that CON men love to reference that contradicts Wilson?
the report makes some interesting and damaging conclusions about Wilson’s Niger trip… i tend to believe it’s a smear job by Pub Senators Bond, Hatch and Roberts on Wilson’s credibility, but it’s a rock the CON men bloggers love to harp on…
any help with ammunition in response to their Alamo?
March 7th, 2007 at 4:59 pmFACTS:
Libby is a CONVICTED FELON and TRAITOR to the USA.
Bush is a TRAITOR coxucker PUNK.
The Wilsons and Fitzgerald are AMERICAN PATRIOTS.
Patrick1 is a Nazi azzhole-licking troll.
USA! USA! USA!
March 7th, 2007 at 5:47 pm50Plame’s identity, if truly a secret, was thinly veiled
BY JOHN CREWDSON
Chicago Tribune
Comment by stevesh
Isn’t that another paper owned by Rupert Murdoch you little troll.
March 7th, 2007 at 5:59 pmThe State of the Union would have hung around his neck forever if he had left those words in. They knew the Intel was not supporting their meme, not as Roger puts it as faulty . They had the choice and they ran it up the flag pole and they got caught. It wasn’t faulty Intel, I guess Roger has been reading too much into the notion that the Vice President never spent anytime going over Intel briefings with the President. Everyone in the White House has been on the same page with Intel since 9/11, the President thrives on it. Let’s wait and see what George Tenet’s new book has to say about who was in the loop and how the Intel got digested. Intel isn’t like handing someone a rental car and letting them drive it blindfolded. Sorry people think it was just as simple as faulty Intel. They abused the CIA like they do any other national resource, for their pleasure and power enhancement. Time to vote for some more correction.
March 7th, 2007 at 6:10 pmYou guys ought to get a tape of Rush Limbaugh’s opening monologue on Tuesday, 3-6-07, and compare it to the WP editorial — the parallels are noteworthy… Guess the Rush and the WP editors are in touch with the same sources.
March 7th, 2007 at 6:14 pm#95 Comment by Shane — March 7, 2007 @ 5:59 pm
No. And why do you hate the Cubs?
TRIBUNE is one of the country’s top media companies, operating businesses in publishing, interactive and broadcasting. It reaches more than 80 percent of U.S. households and is the only media organization with newspapers, television stations and websites in the nation’s top three markets. In publishing, Tribune’s leading daily newspapers include the Los Angeles Times, Chicago Tribune, Newsday, Baltimore Sun, South Florida Sun-Sentinel, Orlando Sentinel and Hartford Courant. The company’s broadcasting group operates 23 television stations, Superstation WGN on national cable, Chicago’s WGN-AM and the Chicago Cubs baseball team. Popular news and information websites complement Tribune’s print and broadcast properties and extend the company’s nationwide audience.
March 7th, 2007 at 6:43 pmLooks like they are finallly coming out of their long liberal nightmare. They have grown!
Comment by Patrick1 — March 7, 2007 @ 3:39 pm
Wow, you’re a st*pid c*nt. You quote an ‘editorial’, as though it’s ‘journalism’? You right wingnuts are born with your heads up your *sses aren’t you?
March 7th, 2007 at 7:21 pm#95
Isn’t that another paper owned by Rupert Murdoch you little troll.
Comment by Shane — March 7, 2007 @ 5:59 pm
It is not owned by Murdoch - you may be thinking of the Sun Times (Robert Noavk’s outlet) and its own scandals. the Tribune is a decidedly conservative, Republican newspaper.
March 7th, 2007 at 9:34 pmIt is part of a large ownership of conservative media (radio, TV and the paper.) I hate that I don’t have a fair and balanced newspaper in the Chicago area. It’s all Republican, all the time.
It’s not like the Post to get it right. It is entirely routine for the left to get it wrong…because their wiring is off.
March 7th, 2007 at 10:22 pmCheney’s Point-man — Libby — Carefully Leaked Plame’s Identity To Reporters, White House Staff.
If this is true why are they all not convicted?
March 7th, 2007 at 11:13 pmGet a republican judge to preside over the trial, change the course of the trial to go after some lies thereby leading away from the real crime, get a conviction and go back to your day job, everyone else walks away scott free. brilliant!
progressives just got fleeced.
March 8th, 2007 at 1:05 amIT IS REALLY REMARKABLE THAT The Washington Post(tm) CAN BE DOING BOTH HELP AND HARM TO CHIMPya and Bushland Uber Allies by SUCH SHAMELESS PANDERING TO CHIMPya WITH THIS DISMISSING OF Libby’s TRIAL IMPORT ON ONE HAND and Dana Priest’s SPLENDID EXPOSES OF Walter Reed and the CIA’s secret prisons ON THE OTHER–NEWSPAPERS–”THEY ARE ONE CRAZY PEEPUL!!!!” Or as the late John O’Grady(aka Nino Culotta) wrote, THEY’RE A WEIRD MOB(tm)!!!!!
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