General: Conservatives Are ‘Absolutely The Worst Thing That’s Happened’ To The U.S. Military
General: Conservatives Are ‘Absolutely The Worst Thing That’s Happened’ To The U.S. Military
Retired Army Maj. Gen. Paul Eaton, who was in charge of training the Iraqi military from 2003 to 2004, appeared last night on HBO’s Bill Maher Show.
“We are in the midst of recovering right now from a constitutional crisis where you had the executive trump the other branches of government,” Eaton said. “Thank god” Congress changed hands in November, he said, giving us “a chance to unsort and figure out how to get out from under this.”
Eaton lamented that so many service members believe that conservatives “are good for the military.” “That is rarely the case. And we have got to get a message through to every soldier, every family member, every friend of soldier,” that the Bush administration and its allies in Congress have “absolutely been the worst thing that’s happened to the United States Army and the United States Marine Corps.” Watch it:
One year ago this week, Eaton called for the resignation of then-Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld in a New York Times op-ed. Vanity Fair has a new article checking in on Eaton now:
His new business cards say “consultant,” primarily because he doesn’t know what else he now is. Since he spoke out, several possible defense-related jobs have mysteriously dried up. ‘Maybe it’s the way I part my hair,’ he says. In late January, his elder son, a 29-year-old Arabic linguist who is an army specialist, went to Afghanistan. His younger son, 27, an army captain who has already spent 14 months in Iraq, will probably go back before long.
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Good for him!
March 10th, 2007 at 1:01 pmHe means Neocons, surely. Conservativism is a myth. Or maybe he meant Democrats, who are relatively conservative.
March 10th, 2007 at 1:03 pmNow all we need is an effective echo chamber to repeat again and again ‘conservatives are destroying our military’.
March 10th, 2007 at 1:03 pm‘conservatives are destroying our military’
March 10th, 2007 at 1:05 pmGOPers are the worst thing to ever happen to America > PERIOD.
March 10th, 2007 at 1:08 pmA standing O. is in order for Gen. Paul Eaton.
March 10th, 2007 at 1:08 pmI hope everyone concerned continues to speak out against this infestation called, the Bush administration. It is a serious and deadly disease; not the least of which is the mongoloid, head pimple-popper, Chimpy.
March 10th, 2007 at 1:12 pm‘conservatives are destroying our military’
March 10th, 2007 at 1:14 pmSince he spoke out, several possible defense-related jobs have mysteriously dried up.
That is why so many generals and admirals continue to serve obsequiously and they use “loyalty” to justify their lack of moral courage.
March 10th, 2007 at 1:19 pmEaton was one of the first military fall guys in juniors misadventure. . Training foreign troops is a Special Forces function. When he was put in charge of training the new Iraqi military instead of being given the SF Soldiers he requested, the senile madman at DoD concocted a scheme to have the training done by a bizzaro mix of contrators, MPRI and National Guardsmen. It of course failed and Eaton was tagged with it.
They then brought in Paetreus who had better but mixed results himself. No one mentions that it was on Paetreus’ watched that the various militias began to infiltrate the secruity forces and are using the training, uniforms and weapons provided by the US to wage the low level religious war.
March 10th, 2007 at 1:24 pmCOALITION PROVISIONAL AUTHORITY BRIEFING WITH
MAJOR GENERAL PAUL EATON, COMMANDER (1/24/04):
Q Luke Baker from Reuters. So how long do you think it will be before Iraq has its own free-standing army that doesn’t have any U.S. military oversight or instruction so that, you know, it really is a free-standing army and the U.S. forces, therefore, can sort of completely withdraw?
GEN. EATON: Okay. A great question and the — I’m not going to be flippant here, but good, fast and cheap are three terms; you get two out of three. And if you present a terrific amount of money, you’re able to bring forces online more quickly. It’s resource intensive. And when I say a terrific amount of money, it is extraordinary, the demand on the national treasure to reduce time to prepare a unit.
I mentioned that General Pace, in the operational and training environment of the United States, says two years to create a division.
When you’re bringing a force online, you first assess the operational environment: Why do you have an army? And the baseline for an army is to fight and win the nation’s wars; here, in this context, to defend the territorial sovereignty of Iraq. This is a tough neighborhood, and three light infantry divisions do not provide, and will not provide the endstate defensive requirements for the Iraqi ground forces. It never was intended to be so. It was the basis of systems, and above all else, the basis of the leader ethos, the leadership, the core of the Iraqi army that one day will be prepared to take on alone the defense of this nation.
Depending on who you talk to, you can go between eight and 12 divisions, and within that eight to 12 divisions, between 40 and 60 percent heavy combined-arms capable divisions — that’s tank, infantry fighting vehicle and artillery, backed up by attack helicopter aircraft, lift aircraft, and the wherewithal to secure the air above — air defense artillery and the interceptor aircraft that you need to defend the skies. An extraordinarily complex affair, and it is expensive.
Now, when you look out at the donor nations and the wherewithal of Iraq to be able to provide the money to purchase the equipment, the money to train the personnel, you’re looking at a sizable amount of money that’s competing with all the other requirements that we need to do to ensure the viability of the economy here and the lifestyle of the Iraqi citizens.
So, if there was a rush to do this, and you sacrificed the welfare of the citizens of Iraq, and had prodigious contributions from donor nations, my estimate is that the earliest you could produce such a force would be between three and five years. That’s a high cost and a high impact on society answer to the question that you posed. As you trade off the dollars, the amount of money required to bring that in, and wish to expand the window, all the while understanding that the coalition is going to have to assure the territorial sovereignty, you open that window to a longer period. In other words, if you wish to expend pure resources upfront, you extend the window a little bit.
So that’s a soldier’s theoretical construct, and the rest of the question has to be answered by those who direct policy. And those are the — those are the leaders who will determine how you allocate resources across the spectrum for the nation. So I didn’t answer your question specifically with a hard figure. I gave you a soldier’s best estimate, unconstrained, how to build a force that will deter, or if deterrence fails defeat, a robust attack against sovereign Iraq.
March 10th, 2007 at 1:27 pm(http://www.cpa-iraq.org/transcripts/Jan21_Eaton.html)
It appears this is the same Rachel that posts here? How sad.
Convicted Dealer’s Wife Dies of Drug Overdose in Dumont.
Dumont — Police are investigating the fatal overdose of a woman who was married to a notorious drug dealer who’s serving time in federal prison.
Rachel Renaldo Jacinta Kinnardi, 46, recently was found dead in her Dumont home. Police said she was married to Harley Gino Kinnardi, who is serving a 24-year federal prison sentence for his role in a pair of fatal overdoses in Wisconsin.
A Las Vegas Nevada man faces drug delivery charges because of a note found along with Rachel Kinnardi’s body on the morning of March 9.
Arrested was the note’s alleged author, Jimmy Galinova, 27, who police said admitted giving Kinnardi several prescription pills earlier this week. He faces a felony drug delivery charge punishable by up to four years in prison, but is not charged with her death.
A Dumont police officer speaking on the condition of anonymity who discovered her body early Saturday morning after recieving a noise complaint at the residence has said ” I observed several empty prescription pill bottles scattered about,” and ” She was clutching a prescription pill bottle with the label reading, Klonopin. ”
And though investigators are awaiting autopsy and toxicology results, they believe there was far more than Klonopin in Kinnardi’s system, based on what police recovered from the home.
“I don’t think Klonopin is the drug that probably killed her,†one officer said. “There was methadone there, cocaine, marijuana, oxycontin, and a myriad of other prescription drugs. Who knows what’s in her system.â€
“Final blood work results could take a few weeks,” a Dumont police spokesman said.
March 10th, 2007 at 1:37 pmgood thing you’re retired, paul… still, i’d keep an eye out for any skulduggery with your pension…
And, yes, I DO take it personally
March 10th, 2007 at 1:39 pmOMG., RACHEL,NO!!
March 10th, 2007 at 1:43 pmIn related news:
Military leaders are struggling to choose Army units to stay in
Iraq and Afghanistan longer or go there earlier than planned, but five years of war have made fresh troops harder to find. [...]
The officials would speak only on condition of anonymity, because no final decisions have been made and no formal requests for the forces have come from commanders in Iraq. But they said it is beginning to appear likely that Petraeus will ask to maintain much of the buildup at least through the end of the year, and possibly into 2008.
Pentagon struggles to find fresh troops
In other words, the US is “staying the course” in Iraq. We can expect more of the same insane policies from the White House for the rest of Pres Bush’s term.
March 10th, 2007 at 1:53 pmRumsfeld’s son is an Arab linguist in the army? Really?
March 10th, 2007 at 1:59 pmA good soul. Rest In Peace.
March 10th, 2007 at 2:00 pmODE FOR RACHEL
“Goodbye cruel world
I’m leaving you today
Goodbye,goodbye,goodbye
Goodbye all you people
There’s nothing you can say
To make me change my mind
Goodbye.”
Rachel,we all hope none of these reports are true.
March 10th, 2007 at 2:00 pmLarger CIA and DoD Privatization Scandal Emerging…
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/3/10/21556/5045
One of the best diaries ever !
March 10th, 2007 at 2:02 pmHogwash!
He shall be swiftboated ASAP…
March 10th, 2007 at 2:06 pmNow is NOT the time to point fingers and assign blame. We have a war on our hands. There will be plenty of time for that later. You wish.
No, it is time for all good Americans to get behind their Commander-In-Chief and join him in his efforts at destroying this country once and for all.
USA USA USA.
March 10th, 2007 at 2:08 pmThere will be plenty of time for that later.
Comment by Abby
Let’s hope there is a ‘later’.
March 10th, 2007 at 2:20 pm#12
If that WAS Rachel,
God rest her soul.
:(
March 10th, 2007 at 2:24 pmAfghanistan’s new anti-corruption chief has a shady past. Izzatullah Wasifi served nearly four years in a US prison for trying to sell heroin to an undercover agent in Las Vegas for $65,000.
It is not the ideal CV for a man appointed to root out corruption in the country that is overwhelmingly the world’s biggest supplier of opium, from which heroin in refined.
Mr Wasifi’s past came out after an investigation by the Associated Press, which pieced the story together from court records. They revealed that in 1987, Mr Wasifi was arrested at Caesar’s Palace Hotel.
Identifying himself only as Mr E, he tried to exchange a bag containing a pound and a half of heroin for $65,000 (£34,000) in cash, unaware the “customer” was a policeman. Mr Wasifi was released on parole after three years and eight months.
The government of President Hamid Karzai has refused to say whether it knew about the drugs conviction when Mr Wasifi was appointed to his post two months ago. A childhood friend of Mr Karzai, today he heads an anti-corruption office of 84 people.
March 10th, 2007 at 2:39 pmBush administration and its allies in Congress have “absolutely been the worst thing that’s happened to the United States Army and the United States Marine Corps.â€
Exactly right.Why would anyone vote for a Repuke is a mystery.
March 10th, 2007 at 2:53 pmLook for his latest book, “What’s Eaton You?”, due on bookshelves, soon.
March 10th, 2007 at 2:54 pmThere is no Rachel Kinnardi on the Social Security death index. That is usually updated on a nearly real-time basis to prevent fraud.
March 10th, 2007 at 3:16 pm‘conservatives are destroying our military’
March 10th, 2007 at 3:16 pmComment by Lori Higginbotham — March 10, 2007 @ 1:37 pm
How did you come across that?
Or is this just Rachel writing her own “demise” and picking a new moniker?
March 10th, 2007 at 3:19 pmLarger CIA and DoD Privatization Scandal Emerging…
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/3/10/21556/5045
One of the best diaries ever !
Comment by km4
Thanks for the amazing link. Even for those of us better informed than most this is astounding.
March 10th, 2007 at 3:21 pmDid they think no one would ever know or did they just not care. I think the fact that these guys are so blatant shows that they expected to stay in power indefinitely. And its scary in that I bet they still have more of a master plan since they are not acting contrite regarding any of the scandals yet.
There is no Rachel Kinnardi on the Social Security death index.
Comment by WaltTheMan — March 10, 2007 @ 3:16 pm
Figures…
March 10th, 2007 at 3:21 pmLarger CIA and DoD Privatization Scandal Emerging…
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/3/10/21556/5045
Comment by km4 — March 10, 2007 @ 2:02 pm
“In each case, the companies under investigation have links to prominent GOP figures, including Vice President Dick Cheney, former Vice President Dan Quayle, former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, and several Republican Congressmen indicted for corruption involving kickbacks from defense contractors. The Republican Congressional Campaign Commitee (RCCC) has also received substantial contributions from conservative fund managers running Cerberus, a virually unregulated $30 billion hedge fund, which owns the second largest bank in Israel.”
Conservatives aren’t just destroying our military…
The depths of their corruption are boundless. Wow…
March 10th, 2007 at 3:28 pmRE #12 Lori reporting on the death of Rachel K…..Please provide LINK to your source, otherwise this could just be more b.s. Enough of this Rachel suicide bullshit. Who cares? “Rachel” probably doesn’t exist as a real person. Or, the Rachel troll read or wrote that article that “Lori” references and then decided to conduct this elaborate prank on us so she would get some sympathy that in the REAL WORLD she appears unable to find.
Since this is a political and not a mental health board, I wish the Rachel living or dead matter would just DIE.
March 10th, 2007 at 3:32 pmComment by Lori Higginbotham — March 10, 2007 @ 1:37 pm
In what state is Dumont located?
March 10th, 2007 at 3:36 pmComment by whogivesadamnaboutDeadRachel — March 10, 2007
Google her name and the only place it shows up is having posted here.
Now some Repug will pick this up and say that liberals drove this poor woman to suicide, yadayada
I expect to hear O’Reilly or Coulter’s accusations momentarily. The trolls must have taken time off.
March 10th, 2007 at 3:43 pmBy the way, these RachelSuicide postings pop up on all the discussions on TP and, I believe, are aimed at derailing TOPICAL discussions of the featured issues. A very sociopathic and passive-agressive way of attacking progressives by diverting our attention and sidetracking us. IGNORE RACHEL DEAD OR ALIVE. (She may have been born again as “Lori”.)
March 10th, 2007 at 3:50 pmWalt and all I do not know if it is true about Rachel or not but do not count on the Social Security Death record’s being a source of information for several week’s…The S,S. death registry list’s their report’s after the corinor releases the death certificate and cause of death…Social Security list’s the name’s by states some time after that…In the case of one relative it was month’s….Just adding my knoledge of that particular portion…If it is true she did go by her own hand, I am sad…On the other hand she will be at Peace, which she must of needed most of all……Blessings
March 10th, 2007 at 3:56 pmBack to the subject – I think the General must have meant neo-cons. True conservatives believe in balanced budgets and non-interventionist foreign policy – nothing like those clowns in Washington.
March 10th, 2007 at 4:00 pmDidn’t Clinton and the Dems close military bases and slash military spending in the 90’s? Reports at the time were that the military was unprepared. Don’t you remember?
March 10th, 2007 at 4:05 pmReports at the time were that the military was unprepared. Don’t you remember?
Comment by muckdog — March 10, 2007 @ 4:05 pm
The Founding Fathers were AGAINST a standing military… Don’t you remember from 4th grade US history? Or did you drop out in third grade?
March 10th, 2007 at 4:11 pmRE “The Mystery of Dead RAchel K” soon to be a major motion picture script by Paul Auster.
in #12 Above, “Lori” informs us, citing a newspaper article??? without LINK or date or otherwise sourced, re the untimely death of one, RachelK.
HaHa…well, the “article” cited by “Lori” says that RK was found dead “the morning of March 9″…..YET, Rachel K POSTED her plans on the afternoon of March 9 ( see post #33 on article House Conservatives Appoint.. by rachel kinnardi — March 9, 2007 @ 1:57 pm)”
Yes, deadRachel from ultratumba, USA continues to post from the great beyond. With such an active fantasy life, she should apply for a job with the bushchaney junta….maybe as assistant to Snow in the propaganda department?
March 10th, 2007 at 4:12 pmI think this explains Rachel’s drastic behaviors here (BTW, ForTruth is an expert):
Rachel wants to punish people for setting limits and boundaries with her, That’s what borderline personalities do. When you set reasonable limits and boundaries they go nuts. They will resort to suicidal threats if needed in order to gain control and get thier way. Like if you want to leave them, they threaten to kill themselves. I posted the DSM criteria for her disorder a while ago. It spells it all out.
The last thing they want you to do is ignore them. That’s why she goes to such lengths to get any kind of attention and concern.
Comment by ForTruth — March 9, 2007 @ 3:57 pm
March 10th, 2007 at 4:21 pmMay I add something I have noticed for a very long time about all of our society, even my own thought’s about evil people are included…..
Why is it we all have become so hardened and cold of heart that we choose to ridacule and slam even the weak omong us…Should we hold to our old feeling of empathy to all living thing’s..I think so..
Where do we get off at making fun of one soul that is screaming for help. No matter if the setting is inappropiate…(our political site). True or not true…I work hard every day to hold true to my belief of “Harm none”…I admit I want evil removed and put in jail for their crimes but I wish them no death or brutality..I never wish any one bad in the true sence of the word……
Who is to say one life is more important then another…Don’t you all agree with me that every child, man and woman in this world have equal value…Who among you can say that a child in Lebanon, Iraq or here is less valuable than your very own child…Have you ever thought that just maybe one child, yes even a Rachel could be another Ghandi, Buddah or your true Christ…..Embrace all please….Many here and every where I read are loosing their compus, showing compasion and caring is not a sign of weakness it is a sign of love. Fear is what breed’s hate, disdane and ridacule.. Stop the fear and hate….Blessings end of sermon..
March 10th, 2007 at 4:21 pmAmen, Sharon.
March 10th, 2007 at 4:32 pmSharon,
I think there’s a difference between helping someone and getting played by them. And I think Rachel just wants attention.
I had a friend like her in middle school who fit ForTruth’s diagnosis… If she couldn’t get her way, she would threaten drastic behaviors – including suicide – which she never carried out. By high school she was alienated because no one with self-esteem would tolerate being manipulated in this manner. That includes people at TP. I agree that no one should be ugly about it, but we certainly should stop talking about it and her – otherwise we really are enabling her to continue this behavior – and that’s not helping her at all.
Unfortunately, if Rachel needs help, people in an anonymous blog are in no position to help her. She said that she is seeing a doctor for her issues. Sounds like she should get a second opinion.
March 10th, 2007 at 4:35 pmBack on topic:
Eaton is a soldier in the true sense of the word. He is a persona non grata in the DoD now because he stood up against Bush. Others remain on duty out of “loyalty” or “sense of duty” and while that may be true for some, could it also be they lack the stronger moral fiber of Eaton who is now suffering for his courage of convictions.
I know I would be very reluctant to jeopardize my career on principle, but if I also believe that if you don’t stand for something, you’ll fall for anything. Peace of mind is priceless.
March 10th, 2007 at 4:38 pmDo all those that remain steadfast to Bush and his doomed war sleep free of cold sweats in the middle of the night? Bush does so because he has no conscience.
“Reports at the time were that the military was unprepared. Don’t you remember?
Comment by muckdog — March 10, 2007 @ 4:05 pm”
Predictable bullshit.
What I remember is that Bush lied about the state of military readiness during the runup to the 2000 election. He stated that at least two full regiments were not “battle-ready.” The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, publically rebuked him.
March 10th, 2007 at 4:40 pmunbelievable: “The Founding Fathers were AGAINST a standing military… Don’t you remember from 4th grade US history?”
ALMOST all the founders were against a standing army in peacetime. But, as a boomer, I didn’t get any idea of this in grammar or high school. I didn’t become aware of this until college. Jefferson even thought it was unprincipled to pay men to kill. He thought that soldiers should only fight to defend the country, not money.
March 10th, 2007 at 4:44 pmConservatives are the worst thing for people period. The only exceptions are if you’re rich, a defense contractor, a lobbyist or a large corporation, then Republicans lavish huge tax breaks and huge contracts on them.
Yesterday Bush commented on the demonstations against his South American visit by saying “I don’t think America gets enough credit for trying to help improve people’s lives”. What he said is true, but only when we have Democrats in control. It has not been true during Chimpy’s reign.
March 10th, 2007 at 4:49 pmUnbelievable, I don’t feel manipulated and I have a very high self esteem..I also agree with some of what you say..Having said that I experienced 2 people with the same type of condition (emotional, mental illness) who carried out their threat’s after year’s of the very same behavior….Do as you choose and I will as alway’s side with compassion and empathy,not critical thinking…BTW the result’s arent in yet rather it is true or not…Blessings
March 10th, 2007 at 4:51 pmGreat to hear this. I wish it were on national tv rather than strictly religated to a pay channel so that more could see. But his comments are out there and that is good.
March 10th, 2007 at 4:56 pm#37 – Sharon,
March 10th, 2007 at 5:07 pmThe index that I am refering to puts a hold on banking transactions and is usually updated before the body is cold. We used it in the benefits processing industry to put a hold on electronic transactions. Social Security processes it each Tuesday at midnight in order to freeze direct deposits that are in the ‘mail’.
ALMOST all the founders were against a standing army in peacetime. But, as a boomer, I didn’t get any idea of this in grammar or high school.
Really? I guess I had a “radical” teacher… :)
I didn’t become aware of this until college. Jefferson even thought it was unprincipled to pay men to kill. He thought that soldiers should only fight to defend the country, not money.
Comment by Bluedog49 — March 10, 2007 @ 4:44 pm
We need more men like Thomas Jefferson running the country today. He certainly had his issues… But compared to the lot we have now, he was a saint : )
March 10th, 2007 at 5:08 pmSharon…I have a feeling that manipulative borderline personalities and others who prey on kindness will always be drawn to you for your commendable attitudes…I am glad you have patience for it. I have absolutely no tolerance. I prefer to use my “empathy” with people with real physical needs like those who need shelter or food and leave the psych to professionals who know what to do since “empathy” unfortunately does not resolve many of these folk’s underlying and chronic emotional needs…
March 10th, 2007 at 5:16 pmBTW the result’s arent in yet rather it is true or not…Comment by Sharon — March 10, 2007 @ 4:51 pm
She posted her suicide message at 1:57. Considering Dumont is in New Jersey, and that Lori Higginbotham has not posted at TP before, I think it’s 99% certain that she didn’t do it – just as my friend never did. The high school Psychologist, like ForTruth, said that people who commit suicide don’t tell anyone – because they don’t want to be stopped. Two people I later knew, who did kill themselves, never said anything.
I certainly feel for her – but believe that enabling her to manipulate the discussion or us isn’t in her best interest. Or ours. Healthy relationships have to have two sides.
I think it’s great that you are a sympathetic person. Sadly, the universe is indifferent. And I think constant sympathy can be as much of a detriment (to the self) as can a total lack of it. There must be reasons we evolved the ability to think critically. And I think it’s important to balance the two… Which is never as easily done :)
Peace.
March 10th, 2007 at 5:18 pmComment by Lori Higginbotham — March 10, 2007 @ 1:37 pm
Thank you, rachel, for all you have done for us. Namaste.
I am glad to know you have found some measure of peace.
March 10th, 2007 at 5:26 pmInteresting bit of info Walt….Sound’s reasonable since all the S.S. benefit’s are sent out on the late Tuesday midnight run’s….Does that mean we will know for sure by this coming Wed.?. Blessings
March 10th, 2007 at 5:27 pmThank you, rachel, for all you have done for us. Namaste.
Comment by Briseadh na Faire — March 10, 2007 @ 5:26 pm
I hope everyone will feel better knowing that Rachel didn’t kill herself… Good find BnF.
Can we get back to politics now : ) ?
March 10th, 2007 at 5:33 pm#57 – Sharon,
March 10th, 2007 at 5:36 pmI beleave that BnF found the source of the death notice in #56. Actually, the index is almost real-time. It only fails in time zones west of the Eastern Time Zone. At two AM, everyone should turn their clocks ahead. I set my alarm clock to two AM to insure that I do not fail to do this task, will it ever go off?
BnF..I agree…Blessings
#54 I have compassion for all and work localy for the needy and helpless….I think and work localy and globaly all the time…..All opinion’s and all souls have value, rather I agree with their ideas or not…Blessings all
March 10th, 2007 at 5:36 pmfor those callous of heart:
March 10th, 2007 at 5:40 pm
Maybe you’re scared of jumpin.
And poison makes ya sick.
But you need some more attention.
And you need it real quick.
Don’t wanna mess your face up.
Cause they won’t know that it’s you.
There’s just so much to worry about.
Now whatcha gonna do?
Go ahead and get it over with then.
Find you a bridge and take a jump.
Just make sure you get it right the first time.
Cause there’s nothing worse than a suicide chump.
-Frank Zappa, “Suicide Chump”
March 10th, 2007 at 5:46 pmPatronization and generic references are really so mature…
March 10th, 2007 at 5:48 pmOK, coming right after Briseadh na Faire’s wonderful quote, that was very callous. Sorry. It was Zappa’s way of dealing with teenage suicide. He was trying to make it uncool.
March 10th, 2007 at 5:48 pmI love you Bnf, for all you do I thank you….Blessings
March 10th, 2007 at 5:49 pmComment by Bluedog49 — March 10, 2007 @ 5:48 pm
understood.
We do not know the demons within Rachel’s mind and are in no position to judge her.
March 10th, 2007 at 5:53 pmOddly, something note-worthy from this odd dialog…
A clear divider among those on the left is ‘religiousity’.
Those who are spiritual or religious mourn death, find it a taboo subject for anything but sadness, and get upset with those who do not share their viewpoint.
Those who reject the supernatural accept death as a part of life, don’t find it a sensitive or sore subject to tip-toe around, and get annoyed by those who scold them for it.
Interesting…
March 10th, 2007 at 5:56 pmWell, we know she craves attention and that was sort of Zappa’s point. Still, Zappa tended to be callous and it was a callous song. I don’t want anyone to commit suicide.
March 10th, 2007 at 5:56 pmWe do not know the demons within Rachel’s mind and are in no position to judge her.
Comment by Briseadh na Faire — March 10, 2007 @ 5:53 pm
Why does only Rachel get that pass? Why are her ‘demons’ more deserving of respect than anyone else’s?
Why not extend the same reasoning/compassion to all who come here?
It’s the selectivity of the message that bothers me – considering I’ve seen you judge people without knowing their demons.
Judgment is a natural human behavior. You’re free to think whatever you like. It’s just when you demand that others have to think like you do or you are free to judge them (”to those callous of heart”) without knowing their “demons” it becomes hypocritical.
March 10th, 2007 at 6:01 pmI don’t want anyone to commit suicide.
Comment by Bluedog49 — March 10, 2007 @ 5:56 pm
Why not?
To play Devil’s Advocate… It is their life and their choice.
I watched my father suffer for 12 years from cancer before it finally killed him. I think death is a personal right when the pain makes life no longer enjoyable or worth it.
Some cultures even go so far as to celebrate death. Why does ours fear and hate it so much?
March 10th, 2007 at 6:05 pmSome cultures even go so far as to celebrate death. Why does ours fear and hate it so much?
Comment by unbelievable — March 10, 2007 @ 6:05 pm
Because they are raised in hatred in general and more specifically the fear of the bad, spooky “hell” waiting for those that don’t go along.
A cult is a cult is a cult!!!
March 10th, 2007 at 6:13 pmEither way,Rachel is definitively persona non grata now.
March 10th, 2007 at 6:15 pm[...] Think Progress [...]
March 10th, 2007 at 6:19 pmDidn’t Clinton and the Dems close military bases and slash military spending in the 90’s? Reports at the time were that the military was unprepared. Don’t you remember?
Comment by muckdog
I’m sure you have copious links to back up this lie.
March 10th, 2007 at 6:21 pmWanker
Because they are raised in hatred in general and more specifically the fear of the bad, spooky “hell†waiting for those that don’t go along.
Comment by dixie blood — March 10, 2007 @ 6:13 pm
Well, you know I agree with you there… :) After I got over my religious upbringing, I stopped being afraid of my death. I certainly am not ready to go – but when I no longer have quality of life, quantity simply isn’t appealling… Our culture does seem to care more about the quantity of things doesn’t it? We celebrate birthdays, anniversaries, and those typesof qnatifiers all the time… Hmmm….
Have you noticed this? That when there is a disagreement on the Left, you can almost draw the line of opposition between those who have religious beliefs of some variety, and those who don’t?
If I have disagreements with other non-religious people, it’s very different than when I have them with religious or spiritual people. The first is always based in logic and facts and critical thinking. We’ll argue about interpretation of facts. But when I, and those of us without religion, disagree with those who are religious, it’s based on some ideological morality or cultural view of the universe…
Have you noticed this difference?
March 10th, 2007 at 6:23 pmComment by unbelievable — March 10, 2007 @ 6:01 pm
I find it interesting you thought I was speaking to you with the “callous of heart” phrase. I wasn’t. But that you thought I was speaks volumes.
My empathy for rachel is because I sense her struggles. I am also a suicide survivor; my younger brother.
And I know your demons, unbelievable. Perhaps better than you know them yourself.
I do what I can to help. And my tact varies with each. I generally leave you alone, and I was not being critical of you. Perhaps because you took it so gives you greater insight to yourself.
March 10th, 2007 at 6:35 pm[...]
Interesting…
Comment by unbelievable — March 10, 2007 @ 5:56 pm
how are you qualified to make such a sweeping judgement???
you don’t speak for me and most that i know, with either point…
a much better, and honest, way to have made that comment would have been to qualify it with, “i think”, or “it’s my opinion”, or “i believe”…
March 10th, 2007 at 6:36 pm…
Comment by troll alert — March 10, 2007 @ 6:15 pm
It is that kind of attitude which prompted her recent posts. It would be best if you merely ignored her, rather than attack her. Let her be. She may yet do good here.
March 10th, 2007 at 6:38 pmWell, lets hope this general runs for some office in 2008. Senate from here in Virginia to replace John Warner would be fine with me.
March 10th, 2007 at 6:39 pmPaul Eaton, THANK YOU FOR SPEAKING OUT AGAINST Bushland Uber Allies, BUT WATCH YER BACK FOR THEIR DASTARDLY RETALIATION–THAT’S ONE THING ABOUT THESE Bushland Uber Allies HYPOCRITES–THEY FEEL THAT WHENEVER THEY ARE CRITICIZED THEY ARE BEING UNFAIRLY PAINTED AS LYING JINGOISTIC DEMAGOGUE repugnant-repub rightwingnut crank fudge-pachyderms, WHICH OF COURSE THEY ARE!!!!!
March 10th, 2007 at 6:40 pmI find it interesting you thought I was speaking to you with the “callous of heart†phrase. I wasn’t. But that you thought I was speaks volumes.
I didn’t think you were speaking to me. I don’t have to think you were speaking to me to find your comment patronizing or hypocritical to others.
My empathy for rachel is because I sense her struggles. I am also a suicide survivor; my younger brother.
One of my best friends committed suicide. I am sorry you went through that. I’m sure you felt guilty, as I did, for not seeing it or stopping it. Our society makes us think we can control those things when we cannot.
I had to come to terms with Bob’s choice to kill himself, because no amount of guilt or grief could undo it. And it is our culture that frustrates me for making us abhor and fear death so much…. Especially when we are all going to die.
And I know your demons, unbelievable. Perhaps better than you know them yourself.
No you don’t. Every time you guess, you’re so far off base it’s actually funny. Just like you thought I thought you were talking to me.
I do what I can to help. And my tact varies with each. I generally leave you alone, and I was not being critical of you.
It’s not about me. It’s about the duality of having judged people as callous and then saying that no one has the right to judge Rachel. (Which, equally makes me judgmental for saying so… But I recognize that and understand that you have to make judgments in life…) It was the hypocrisy in your two comments that is my point.
Perhaps because you took it so gives you greater insight to yourself.
Comment by Briseadh na Faire — March 10, 2007 @ 6:35 pm
Since I didn’t take it that way, not really – but it definitely gave me insight into which issues the religious and non-religious sides of the Left will differ… So thanks for that.
March 10th, 2007 at 6:46 pmUnbelievable, In response to your last post’s…First let me say, I have read and admired all your post’s to date including the above…
Next having been raised catholic and walked away from that I do not believe in the bible or hell either…I don’t fear death and have been ready for it and will welcome it since 1980….I was merly trying to point out in my post’s to many how hardened and un affected by misery of any people our society has become…I was not attacking you personely and have know all along you were an athiest and believe many month ago I even applauded you stand…The people I was and will continue to slam are the trolls and one’s who appear to have no empathy for all people and all living thing’s, even the tree.s…You know that….No I am not offended by you thought’s and except when the troll’s show lack of caring like they did about our vet’s I get enraged…I don’t like it when the relegious try and shove their dogma down our throat’s either…We all have our pet project’s as well as our pet peeves….Blessings and Peace
March 10th, 2007 at 6:47 pmkaty judgmentally demands:
how are you qualified to make such a sweeping judgement???
and then says:
a much better, and honest, way to have made that comment would have been to qualify it with, “i thinkâ€, or “it’s my opinionâ€, or “i believeâ€â€¦
LOL!!! Your usual hypocritical self I see…
If I’m saying it, then obviously it is I who thinks it… Sheesh. Your need to make everyone act just like you think they aught is really desperate… especually considering how many times I’ve told you I don’t respect anything you say to me.
you don’t speak for me and most that i know, with either point…
Comment by katy — March 10, 2007 @ 6:36 pm
Believe me, I never think of you when I post anything. Unlike you, I don’t think it’s all about you. LOL
Seriously – how psychotic are you that you refuse to respect my request to stop speaking to me? You do realize that that’s a really abnormal problem you have, right? That you’re such a demented bully that you have to force yourself on someone who doesn’t like you and tries very hard to ignore you?
Lemme guess, now you’ll throw yourself on the floor now and say I was picking on you… You’re such a freakshow katy… LOL
March 10th, 2007 at 6:54 pmSharon,
Thanks… I just don’t like to see people like Rachel who manipulate for their own benefit upset or worry you or the others here. And I think that is exactly what she has done from the beginning when she posted as angie, patricia reglin and then rachel…
As I said above, I’ve lived it. It’s a horrible and nasty thing to put other people through – to make them think you are killing yourself for something they did or didn’t do? I think she deserves the negative consequences of that to some degree… That such inappropriate behavious shouldn’t be rewarded… That justice should have a voice here, and she find out that what she did was unacceptable (unless she did do it, and then she wouldn’t know).
I admire you greatly for your ability to always see the positive side, and fight for what you believe in with such conviction… Sorry if either of us misunderstood. I have nothing but the highest regard for you, and at this point, nothing will change that.
Peace and love :)
March 10th, 2007 at 7:02 pmto repeat:
Those who are spiritual or religious mourn death…
Those who reject the supernatural accept death…
Comment by unbelievable — March 10, 2007 @ 5:56 pm
how are you qualified to make such a sweeping judgement???
you don’t speak for me and most that i know, with either point…
a much better, and honest, way to have made that comment would have been to qualify it with, “i thinkâ€, or “it’s my opinionâ€, or “i believeâ€â€¦
…
what makes you think i should give YOU a pass?
March 10th, 2007 at 7:13 pmi’ll address whomever i please…
.
Back at ya Unbelievable, back at ya with all the good stuff in life….Blessings
March 10th, 2007 at 7:13 pmKaty dear, perhaps we all should just move along or get back on topic….Blessings
March 10th, 2007 at 7:15 pm‘conservatives are destroying our military’
March 10th, 2007 at 7:19 pmhow are you qualified to make such a sweeping judgement???
Uh, free speech.
Instead of attacking me, how about actually disproving my comment? Oh, that’s right, you would much rather insult me to feel better about your own inadequacies… We had established that pretty much from the get go, which you reconfirm everytime you speak to me.
what makes you think i should give YOU a pass?
Because I had politely asked you to… well, in the beginning… decorum is now out the window… What is wrong with you that you cannot respect that? It’s a valid question and you keep refusing to answer it. Clearly, because you get off on being nasty and passive-agressive. How utterly desperate and pathetic… It’s what I’ve come to expect from you. Sad.
i’ll address whomever i please…
Comment by katy — March 10, 2007 @ 7:13 pm
No doubt. After all, it is all about YOU…
You insist on being a selfish bitch regardless… No wonder you’re so worried about petty things like how I phrase my comments. It beats looking in the mirror at your glaring problems…
March 10th, 2007 at 7:20 pmBack at ya Unbelievable, back at ya with all the good stuff in life….Blessings
Comment by Sharon — March 10, 2007 @ 7:13 pm
Now if we can just figure out how to get Bush and Cheney Impeached… : )
March 10th, 2007 at 7:23 pmI guess some people are eagerly waiting for DeadRachel to come back from…? probably a vacation in a looneybin…John Donne’s bell can ring all it wants, I still don’t care if she is dead or back from the dead. It seems some of you are awaiting her return, perhaps on the third day…well…she best hurry up…I am sure she will have wonderful tales to tell about her experiences on “the other side”…
March 10th, 2007 at 7:28 pmPaul Eaton has been whining since he proved unable or incapable of completing his assignment. “But at first he was gung-ho. He scoured the Internet for information about Iraq, reread T. E. Lawrence,….” T. E. Lawrence, excellent for learning about non-evolving aspects of Arabian culture…..but not quite up to speed in terms of contemporary terrorism…. His first mistake….
March 10th, 2007 at 7:33 pmThe troops have it wrong, the republican party is good for militarism, not the military itself.
March 10th, 2007 at 7:41 pmSharon, BnF, you’ve been had. Use the Google. Rachel only exists in her (Lori’s) feeble imagination.
March 10th, 2007 at 8:01 pmPLEASE stop falling for that pathetic troll!
You are both such nice smart people! I hate to see you wasting your sympathy on someone who only is here to DERAIL THE THREAD!!!
Sheesh.
JACK Murtha and John Warner would not be saying the things they are saying, if they haven’t been talking to lots of people in the Military who agree….Bush is destroying the Military. How can the Best Military in the world, with a 400 Billion dollar budget be losing a war in a country that has No Army, No Air Force, No Navy. Lethal Incompetence, and delusional War Planning.
March 10th, 2007 at 8:02 pmHaving missed the Dead Rachel “controversy”, I must say it is refreshing to scroll through “compassionate” Progressivism in “black and white”. Certain posters with the empathy of rocks is sad, but not completely “unbelievable”….
March 10th, 2007 at 8:03 pm#61 BnF
March 10th, 2007 at 8:06 pmThat is my favorite quotation from Donne.
It always amazes me that so much can be implied in so few words.
#80 – “And it is our culture that frustrates me for making us abhor and fear death so much…”
No, it’s really our innate and cross-cultural “survival instinct” – not just “our culture”.
March 10th, 2007 at 8:07 pm#81 sharon
having been raised catholic and walked away from that I do not believe in the bible or hell either
We share this in common.
March 10th, 2007 at 8:08 pmBriseadh na Faire,
Thanks for the link at #56.
March 10th, 2007 at 8:10 pmVV….glad you are gratified to find compassionate, empathetic liberals. But how is that a surprise? As you know, we are opposed to killing innocent Iraquis and having our young men and women killed or wounded in your war. Now its time for YOU to be compassionate and demand an end to the killing.
March 10th, 2007 at 8:15 pmhttp://www.timboucher.com/journal
Did Jesus Fake His Own Death?
I just thought of yet another way to read the story of Jesus’ death, inspired by some comments Carlos made on one of my posts from earlier.
Here’s my what if scenario:
Jesus had some great things to say and got really popular as a teacher. Eventually though, the fame got to him. Jesus the guru was becoming this image in people’s minds totally separate from what Jesus the man actually felt. And no matter how many times he tried to clarify what he actually meant, people just inserted their own interpretation. I mean, maybe a few got it, but whatever it was, even Jesus started to lose sight of it. He tried going out by himself into the desert for a while to get it back. And that helped for a while. But when he came back from vacation, it all became too much for him again. The persona he had constructed – and which had been constructed for him – no longer fit. He had to find a way out…
As far as I remember, Muslims believe that Jesus didn’t actually die on the Cross. Some people claim that his spirit switched places with Simon of Cyrene, and escaped scot free. Others say that it was actually his twin brother Thomas who was crucified. Still others put forth the possibilty that through drugs and meditation, Jesus entered a coma-like state, was presumed dead and entombed. And at the appointed time, he woke up, his co-conspirators rolled the tomb back and helped him escape.
What if Jesus’ death was faked? And what if it didn’t serve any metaphysical purpose at all? What if he was just trying to get his life back, and be a private citizen again after all his years of service to the community? There are legends that say Jesus traveled eastward then and lived out his days in India. Some even say Japan. And then there’s the whole Merovingian connection.
I realize that for people who don’t think Jesus was a historical person, this type of speculation is pointless. But it’s really not. It’s like what I said above about his story being a sort of magnet for whatever people need to bring into it. With my own work lately, I’ve been thinking a lot about how public personas work, and how easy it is for people to nudge it in so many different directions that it becomes it’s own thing, not always even connected to who you are. That, or you outgrow it in some way, or both. It’s happening to me on a small scale, but just imagine how crazy it would be if you were some kind of spiritual teacher wandering the countryside with bands of disciples hanging on your every word? It’d be enough to drive anybody nuts.
Anyway I like this interpretation because it’s not Christian; it’s not gnostic; it’s just human.
March 10th, 2007 at 8:22 pmT. E. Lawrence, excellent for learning about non-evolving aspects of Arabian culture…..but not quite up to speed in terms of contemporary terrorism…. His first mistake….
Comment by valiant venus
Like the Bush administration trying to re-use tactics that failed in Viet Nam?
March 10th, 2007 at 8:22 pmNo, it’s really our innate and cross-cultural “survival instinct†– not just “our cultureâ€.
Comment by valiant venus
No, humans have no observable instinct. It is culture.
March 10th, 2007 at 8:25 pmComment by troll alert — March 10, 2007 @ 6:15 pm
It is that kind of attitude which prompted her recent posts. It would be best if you merely ignored her, rather than attack her. Let her be. She may yet do good here.
Comment by Briseadh na Faire
In case you haven’t yet guessed, “troll alert” is also Rachel.
March 10th, 2007 at 8:26 pm[...] Think Progress » Conservatives Are ‘Absolutely The Worst Thing That’s Happened’ To The U.S. M… Eaton said. “Thank god†Congress changed hands in November, he said, giving us “a chance to unsort and figure out how to get out from under this.†(tags: Military conservative Congress iraq) [...]
March 10th, 2007 at 8:26 pmIn case you haven’t yet guessed, “troll alert†is also Rachel.
Comment by barfly
troll alert is normally a different person than rachel, but rachel has hijacked the name on occasion. I am suspicious of troll alert’s comments today.
March 10th, 2007 at 8:29 pmBTW the result’s arent in yet rather it is true or not…Blessings
Comment by Sharon — March 10, 2007 @ 4:51 pm
The results are in. Troll Alert is also Rachel, and it posted after you.
March 10th, 2007 at 8:29 pmtroll alert is normally a different person than rachel, but rachel has hijacked the name on occasion. I am suspicious of troll alert’s comments today.
Comment by Zooey —
Uh, no. You will never find a troll alert post seperate of her. Try it, you’ll see. Troll Alert only pops up when Rachel is around. It’s not simply coincidence.
March 10th, 2007 at 8:34 pmRe the Rachel “suicide” controversy….
This has “bogus” written all over it. Now, for those duped by this sociopath, lets review it:
1. This “rachel” persona recently posted of her imminent suicide and seems to blame liberal posters on TP.
2. In posting #12 above, “Lori Higginbothom” brings us a report, supposedly from a newspaper, (although there is no journal name, date or LINK to source), about the death of a Rachel Kinnardi.
3. There are multiple postings of sorrow and the bell of john donne and a discussion about empathy, sensitivity, religion, death etc. as well as abnormal psychology and much skepticism.
4. Up above,in item 56 there is a link on the word NAMASTE, which takes you to a newspaper article of 1//27/07 about the suicide of a person named Roberta Jane King. Now, look back to the #12 post and you find a word for word rehash of the news article with the exception of the location and name of the suicide, as Roberta’s name has now been edited by Lori H. to that of RACHEL KINNARDI.
Could it be any clearer? You can draw your own conlusions about motive and observe the results. What you choose to do about it, is, of course, up to each participant.
I hate to break up the wake, but….can we get back to the POLITICAL discussion and refer suicides and other emotionally disturbed folks to another site? Maybe the Republican National Committe website? Or they can call their Republican congressman for mental health funding.
March 10th, 2007 at 8:37 pmI’m in agreement with AVN, but I would add that those who value Rachel’s more lucid comments should google them, as she has been shown to plagiarize columns from respectable writers, and pass it off as her own musings.
March 10th, 2007 at 8:42 pm# 105 Zooey:
Thanks for the clarification;but rest assured,all the troll alert comments for the last couple of weeks have been mine.(I’m pretty sure anyway)
Now # 101 by Tim Boucher Fan has me suspicious;looks kind of rachelish.
March 10th, 2007 at 9:13 pmAlthough I have not posted on TP for very long, or often and therefore do not “know” much about the Rachel RIP(off) in question or her postings, it seems that she has multiple personalities and “handles” and only her shrink knows why the hell she chooses this place to babble….She appears quite qualified and should be running for Congress where she can be with her peers and give inane speeches from her empty mind to an empty hall. I am sure the sheeple who share her delusional state will be impressed. I,for one, will just turn the channel to the Cartoon Network.
March 10th, 2007 at 9:13 pm# 104,106 and 107. barfly:
You’re wrong;you are way off with those comments,my man.
March 10th, 2007 at 9:20 pmComment by SKdeA — March 10, 2007 @ 8:01 pm
Rachel is capable of posting some very good articles here. I support that which is good in her.
If you would see rachel as I do, not as a troll, but as someone willing to help, in spite of her challenges and lack of acceptance by some here, you would have more compassion.
March 10th, 2007 at 9:21 pmComment by barfly — March 10, 2007 @ 8:42 pm
I know her posts are cut-and-paste, but she brings some good articles to my attention that I wouldn’t otherwise be aware of.
She has the time to surf the net and find things and bring them here. Those that I value, I bookmark, and tell her so. Indeed, that’s why I think she posts the same thing on multiple threads, waiting to see if I have had a chance to read her post. (and I don’t mean to imply she posts only for me…there are others here she is posting for)
There is a reason for rachel’s being here, and it is greater than nearly everyone on these boards suspects.
I only ask that even if you dislike her, leave her in peace. She will do no harm, and she just yet may provide some more valuable keys.
March 10th, 2007 at 9:32 pmRE: “Did JC fake his own death” above,
There is no way to know if JC faked his death but I am fairly certain that many of his followers’s today have faked their lives, by which I mean that they are NOT true followers, but deranged and insufferable posers…like George Bush and all his reichwingnut devotees….may they all be taken away to their nirvana soon….tomorrow would be just dandy.
March 10th, 2007 at 9:36 pmComment by valiant venus — March 10, 2007 @ 7:33 pm
You invalid penus are not fit to shine that man’s shoes.
March 10th, 2007 at 9:37 pmAnd I have a house full of children under 12 here and you are more tiresome than all of them together.
Boring
Briseadh na Faire…..humm, so Rachel is like an Oracle ? She has secret messages from on high to enlighten us, is that it? Tonight I will ponder what secret purpose she has in my life? Right after I read my horoscope.
Hogwash.
March 10th, 2007 at 9:39 pmangryvietnamvet,
Everyone has a purpose.
March 10th, 2007 at 9:45 pmBriseadh na Faire:
Rachel is way more than just rachel and the many personas she/he has exibited here.He/she has been a net negative to this site,and this latest hoax just reenforces that.
March 10th, 2007 at 9:47 pmBecause of this hoax,and it is serious,he/she should be ignored from this day forward.If you and Sharon want to display your compassion,and I commend that,perhaps you all could have a 3 way e mail system.
On the off chance that General Eaton should ever read these posts I suspect he would wonder if anybody appreciates his bravery. One of the few comments about him is calling him whiny.
March 10th, 2007 at 9:59 pmThis lack of interest or respect in the what this man had to say is starting to make me think that we, as Progressives, are only paying lip service to the welfare of the troops and veterans. Are we no better than neocons then?
Do we really want an end to the war or do we just feel like chatting?
Sad
Okay, the women who overdosed was Roberta Jane King Husband of convict Robert Lee King. and not Rachel Kinnardi.
(lootta RKs)
Gary Snellers overdosed and was a vet who got drougs apparently from Robert Lee King. Garry snellers is survived by his mother Romayne Snellers and sister Cheryl Childers.
Another one of the overdosers from Kings drugs was apparently Emily Waskiewicz.
So..who is Rachel Kinnard or Lori Higginbotham?
WHo knows?
The whole thing is crazy and someone has taken a great deal of trouble to confuse the issues. Mt condolonces to the families and I hope whowever is posting garbage gets some help.
March 10th, 2007 at 10:07 pmBeen off this thread for 3 hour’s, doing dishes and viseting other thread’s….
I for one don’t care what people think of me on this site….I don’t have a personal need from any one here to validate what I think or the work I do, I merely come here to learn and share some of my thought’s….Call me a fool or any other name that suit’s you who ever you are and I don’t care when it comes to showing compassion or caring for any and all on my radar screen…..I will flip shit with the best when I see word’s of hate against our people and vetran’s….I don’t think this administration is our people so I will flip a lot at them and their treasonious backer’s..Having said that I leave again for the night and send Blessings to all..
March 10th, 2007 at 10:12 pmHeh.
Goodnight, Sharon. :)
Peace & Blessings.
March 10th, 2007 at 10:17 pm“Didn’t Clinton and the Dems close military bases and slash military spending in the 90’s? Reports at the time were that the military was unprepared. Don’t you remember?”
Better than you apparently. :-) They followed the plan (already in progress), earlier drawn up by Cheney, word for word, base closing by base closing. Yesss thaaat Cheney. It was probably a reasonable plan.
Invading Iraq, now THAT was frigging stupid and I’ll say this as a true patriot, “NOT IN THE INTEREST OF THE SECURITY OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.” Not in any way, shape or form. Now Afghanistan … another matter. I’m not anti-war, just anti-fucking stupidity.
March 10th, 2007 at 11:14 pm[...] Think Progress » General: Conservatives Are ‘Absolutely The Worst Thing That’s Happened’ To T… Retired Army Maj. Gen. Paul Eaton, who was in charge of training the Iraqi military from 2003 to 2004, appeared last night on HBO’s Bill Maher Show. “We are in the midst of recovering right now from a constitutional crisis where you had the executive (tags: neocons wingnuts military interview video) [...]
March 10th, 2007 at 11:23 pmComment by shane — March 10, 2007 @ 9:59 pm
shane, you’ve been around this site enough to know our feelings on the war and Bush.
I saw Gen. Eaton’s remarks as he made them on Bill Maher last night. There were times when you could see he was still having to choose his words very carefully. And, of course, the minute anybody speaks out against this Administration they get slandered.
I commend the General on his remarks. But I wonder why he stopped short of naming Bush as a responsible party? oh. I guess I just answered my own question.
March 10th, 2007 at 11:47 pmI only ask that even if you dislike her, leave her in peace. She will do no harm, and she just yet may provide some more valuable keys.
Comment by Briseadh na Faire —
Honarable sentiments – from someone not on the butt end of her nambla posts. Wait until she starts posting nambla stuff under your name, and we’ll see if your attitude remains the same. She started it. Am I supposed to just say “well, she sometimes posts relevant stuff, so I should just ignore the namestealing and vileness?” I originally gave her the benefit of the doubt, until she began posting the nambla sh#t. I would submit that the whole mental illness schtick is merely another gambit, meant to divide us. Buy into it at your own risk. And if you’re OK with her plagiarism, I don’t hold in very high esteem your powers as an attorney, either.
March 11th, 2007 at 12:30 am[...] General: Conservatives Are ‘Absolutely The Worst Thing That’s Happened’ To The U.S. Military [...]
March 11th, 2007 at 12:34 amOMG., RACHEL,NO!!
Comment by troll alert
Rachel/Troll Alert, do you have trouble finding your way out of a revolving door because you see so many reflections of yourself in the glass?
You’re only fooling the rubes.
March 11th, 2007 at 12:40 amI understand that this isn’t addressed to me, but I want to reply:
Call me a fool or any other name that suit’s you who ever you are and I don’t care when it comes to showing compassion or caring for any and all on my radar screen…..I will flip shit with the best when I see word’s of hate against our people and vetran’s…. Sharon
The one you would show compassion to (Rachel) has, in the past, engaged in hate speech against others on this board, as Spudge Boy, Unbelieveable, myself, and a few others can attest. In this context, “compassion” has the same effect as enabling this person to continue her course of namestealing, mutiliple posting under numerous names to block up the threads, and posting vile nambla-type stuff, attributed to others. Complaints to TP are ineffective, as Rachel posts with impunity. Are there no boundaries which truly count in social discourse on the Internet?
March 11th, 2007 at 12:54 amComment by barfly — March 11, 2007 @ 12:40 am
Barfly,I know you like to post on blogs while you’re drinking,but dude,you have to have better judgement than that.
March 11th, 2007 at 1:43 amIf you can’t distinguish between Rachel and me,then I can’t trust your judgement in anything you post.
Sober up.
the f—ing Jesus Cult will probably kill his kids.
March 11th, 2007 at 3:01 amthe f—ing Jesus Cult will probably murder his kids.
March 11th, 2007 at 3:03 amSorry, folks, actual suicide is an incredibly personal, private thing. Rachel is the type to swallow 20 ibuprofen for the attention. Hell, it is not going to kill her (until her kidneys give out from being a moron).
March 11th, 2007 at 3:46 amYet, one thing not mentioned is that Paul Eaton thinks the mission in Iraq is important. I find it interesting that point isnt even mentioned just because he disagrees with the current administrations handling.
March 11th, 2007 at 5:23 am[...] Maj. Gen. Paul Eaton was on Bill Maher’s show Friday. Think Progress has the video. General: Conservatives Are ‘Absolutely The Worst Thing That’s Happened’ To The U.S. Military [...]
March 11th, 2007 at 8:13 amI knew this name sounded familiar. Gen Eaton was the commander of Fort Benning when I was there, who knew I had such an intelligent reasonable person at the wheel.
March 11th, 2007 at 8:38 amCertain posters with the empathy of rocks is sad, but not completely “unbelievableâ€â€¦.
Comment by valiant venus — March 10, 2007 @ 8:03 pm
Says the sad transvestite who jokes about dead children…
No, it’s really our innate and cross-cultural “survival instinct†– not just “our cultureâ€.
Comment by valiant venus — March 10, 2007 @ 8:07 pm
No – it’s our culture. As I mentioned, there are other cultures that celebrate death. Survival instinct is a different subject than HOW we view death.
Buy a dictionary already…
March 11th, 2007 at 9:58 amNo, humans have no observable instinct. It is culture.
Comment by Zooey — March 10, 2007 @ 8:25 pm
Sounds like your studies are interesting… unlike MA ; )
It was a Psychologist friend who had told me that humans are born with virtually no instincts and that they are all learned. I figure it’s why we fear things that have already happened to us the most…
March 11th, 2007 at 10:02 amNow # 101 by Tim Boucher Fan has me suspicious;looks kind of rachelish.
Comment by troll alert — March 10, 2007 @ 9:13 pm
I normally don’t agree with you, and think you’re someone who tried to harrass me from time to time, but in this case, if that’s not Rachel, it’s her twin…
March 11th, 2007 at 10:07 amEveryone has a purpose.
Comment by Zooey — March 10, 2007 @ 9:45 pm
Only if they choose one… The fact that we can change our purpose solely based on our will shows that will is perception and not truth.
Personally, once the angst of Nihilism wore off, I found that the total free will to define your own purpose beats the heck out of trying to decipher “signs” in a chaotic universe that is devoid of reason.
March 11th, 2007 at 10:16 amI normally don’t agree with you, and think you’re someone who tried to harrass me from time to time,
Comment by unbelievable
Unbelievable,all families have their squabbles; you’re cool.
March 11th, 2007 at 10:30 amHey,no one ever said the troll alert couldn’t be a bastard.
Unbelievable,all families have their squabbles; you’re cool.
That’s a good way of looking at it – because, like it or not, we are a family… dysfunction and all :)
Hey,no one ever said the troll alert couldn’t be a bastard.
Comment by troll alert — March 11, 2007 @ 10:30 am
That is subjective :). I don’t have problems with people calling it like they see it without the sugar-coating. To me, it’s better for someone to be a bit brutal in their honesty than not honest at all… Especially when someone thinks they have the right to manipulate other people for their own personal gain, as Rachel clearly did…
March 11th, 2007 at 10:43 amComment by unbelievable — March 11, 2007 @ 10:43 am
Yep and yep.
March 11th, 2007 at 10:57 amI must say this; BnF did one heck of a job digging up that article about the real victim of an overdose.
March 11th, 2007 at 11:09 amHow in the world did he find that?
I don’t have problems with people calling it like they see it blahblahblah…
Comment by unbelievable — March 11, 2007 @ 10:43 am
riiiiiiight… uh huh… sure thing… remember that, ok?
March 11th, 2007 at 11:15 ami will…
Only if they choose one… The fact that we can change our purpose solely based on our will shows that will is perception and not truth.
Comment by unbelievable
Not always true, unbelievable. Sometimes we have a purpose we are totally unaware of, and while we may try to take control, the underlying purpose remains. We may never understand or be aware of the lessons others learn from us.
March 11th, 2007 at 11:31 amComment by troll alert — March 11, 2007 @ 11:09 am
Agreed, outstanding research job on that.
March 11th, 2007 at 11:36 amriiiiiiight… uh huh… sure thing… remember that, ok?
i will…
Comment by katy — March 11, 2007 @ 11:15 am
Piss off you selfish bitch.
March 11th, 2007 at 12:02 pmSometimes we have a purpose we are totally unaware of, and while we may try to take control, the underlying purpose remains. We may never understand or be aware of the lessons others learn from us.
Comment by Zooey — March 11, 2007 @ 11:31 am
I see no proof of that… In fact, I see exactly the opposite.
So, it’s no different than the ideals of religion, really – to suggest that the universe is anything more than indifferent and random. Because a purpose suggests a plan, and I think we can go back to male nipples to show that an intelligence and purpose doesn’t exist. :)
Personally, I like that there is no purpose – it means you aren’t tied to something against your will. It’s the ultimate in freedom.
March 11th, 2007 at 12:07 pm#100 – Comment by angryvietnamvet
You might have missed the irony – there are one or two “true believer of the compassionate Left” – the rest are a bunch of hypocritical phonies. I hate the fact innocent people get killed in war….whether they are Germans, Japanese, Koreans, VietNamese or Iraqi’s. But if you would be so kind as to point out a war in which no civilians were killed, I would appreciate it.
March 11th, 2007 at 12:19 pm132 – Like the majority of progressives, you have the mistaken notion that if you tell a lie often enough, people will believe you. You are a liar and you seem to take great delight in your lies. I NEVER joked about my dead daughter. I mentioned the sweetness of a little child trying to console me, his mother. But apparently, sweetness is something completely alien to one such as yourself.
But as you have no first hand knowledge of such familial relationships, go read a book about it.
March 11th, 2007 at 12:24 pmPersonally, I like that there is no purpose – it means you aren’t tied to something against your will. It’s the ultimate in freedom.
Comment by unbelievable
You’re missing my point, unbelievable.
One’s purpose isn’t usually about one’s self.
March 11th, 2007 at 12:25 pm#145 – Hagette
You are deliberately missing angryvietnamvet’s point.
Try again, and try not to be so patronizing to your betters.
March 11th, 2007 at 12:27 pmKaty – “unbe” only likes “brutal honesty” when the brutality flows from her fingertips. Poor little thing - – EVERYONE (from her boss, to some of the parents of students) is an f***ing moron if they disagree with her message or methods.
Tooodles……
March 11th, 2007 at 12:31 pm#146 ….Comment by VV:
March 11th, 2007 at 12:33 pmI am glad you do not condone the killing of civilians, which you see as inescapable in war. I would then suggest you come out unequivocally against ALL war. Can you get behind that? Particularly unwarranted invasions which are bound to result in civilians taking up arms against occupiers, being then labeled “insurgents” or “terrorists” and therefore legitimage targets, as opposed to ancillary victims of “collateral damage”. The U.S. has been responsible for more civilian deaths in 4 years than that evildoer Saddam H. in 20.
Thanks for the suggestion, Zooette – but the Vet missed my point. But I do applaud your compassion for RK (or whoever she is) – she is obviously a tortured soul.
Tooodles…..
March 11th, 2007 at 12:34 pm#150 – “I would then suggest you come out unequivocally against ALL war. ”
I wish I could….unfortunately, unlike you, I think there are some things worth fighting for. We will just have to agree to disagree.
Gotta run – have a great Sunday!
March 11th, 2007 at 12:36 pmOy.
March 11th, 2007 at 12:38 pmBnF, your compassion is WASTED on an artificial construct like Rachel. I think you need to realize that she is playing you! I refuse to be emotionally jerked around by a liar like her/him, as proved many times before. Sure , Rachel has contributed lots of interesting stuff, but almost always in the name of disrupting the current conversation, and traceable to other sources (plagiarism).
Sharon, sorry that you seem to think I am no being compassionate enough, but after my first ever post on any blog was responded to with your immediate smackdown in an unfriendly tone (”have all the abortions you want” were your exact words), I think that you have a little to learn about compassion yourself. No one is perfect, right?
But by getting into the whole dialog about suicide and does Rachel deserve our sympathy, you have taken on her job for her.
We all know people who have killed themselves. Why do you think it is such an effective hot-button for Rachel to push?
But I do applaud your compassion for RK (or whoever she is) – she is obviously a tortured soul.
Comment by valiant venus
Save it, Hagette.
BTW: You did tell a joke about your imaginary dead child, we all saw it. Why do you protest so much? You have no children dead or alive — no child sweetly consoled you, remember?
March 11th, 2007 at 12:42 pmEw, “toodles”, I had forgotten how much that annoyed me…
March 11th, 2007 at 12:43 pmHi Zooey!
March 11th, 2007 at 12:45 pmHow’s it going? Having a good time MA baiting?
Like the majority of progressives, you have the mistaken notion that if you tell a lie often enough, people will believe you. You are a liar and you seem to take great delight in your lies.
I am not a liar – it’s why you hate me so much… I am able to be honest and valid. You don’t getthat the only way to be logical is by being honest. Try it.
You’re not any of the things you’ve ever claimed – therefore, if either of us is a liar – it’s clearly YOU.
I NEVER joked about my dead daughter. I mentioned the sweetness of a little child trying to console me, his mother. But apparently, sweetness is something completely alien to one such as yourself.
There you have it – MA has admitted that she changed her name.
Yes, you joked about it. I can go get it and post it again… What would you change your name to then? LOL
But as you have no first hand knowledge of such familial relationships, go read a book about it.
Comment by valiant venus — March 11, 2007 @ 12:24 pm
I have more experience with children than you do. Lest you forget what I do for a living.. Only a desperate troll who couldn’t buy friends would think you have to give birth to someone to love them.
Join the 21st century, MA – where women are allowed to reject tradition as incubators in order to fix the fact that fruitcakes like you cannot properly raise a hamster, much less a human being.
March 11th, 2007 at 12:48 pmYou’re missing my point, unbelievable.
Then, please, explain…
One’s purpose isn’t usually about one’s self.
Comment by Zooey — March 11, 2007 @ 12:25 pm
But it would have to be in some portion to be one’s purpose. Otherwise it wouldn’t be yours :)
It also implies an intention in the universe, and to me, that has been proven to be simply wishful thinking… Not everything does work out for everyone. Untilit does, the system is no more capable of purposes than it is any other intention.
March 11th, 2007 at 12:50 pmHi Zooey!
How’s it going? Having a good time MA baiting?
Comment by SKdeA
Hi SKdeA,
Things are going well. Getting ready to take my son back to school, so things are about to get much better. :) He was looking over my shoulder as I wrote that, and stalked off. Heh.
It would be more fun to bait the Hag if I cared anything about her. *sigh*
Things going well for you?
March 11th, 2007 at 12:53 pmKaty – “unbe†only likes “brutal honesty†when the brutality flows from her fingertips.
Nonsense… But katy has never been honest – just patronizing to convince me to do things (ignore people) that she refuses to do herself.
It all started when shetold me to ignore someone with whom I was debating. When I refused, she began to scold and insult me, a tactic typical of those who manipulate others to get their way. Hmmm she has more in common with Rachel than I realized…
Even a mental midget like you would have to admit the irony in that…
Poor little thing – - EVERYONE (from her boss, to some of the parents of students) is an f***ing moron if they disagree with her message or methods.
My boss is disliked by just about every teacher in the county (her previous job involved BOE functions), and the only parent I’ve ever mentioned raised a child who intentionally an maliciously burned another student with hot glue.
Of course you would defend the tyrant and the bad parent… LOL
Tooodles……
Comment by valiant venus — March 11, 2007 @ 12:31 pm
Says a lot that you and katy would bond over disliking an educated and independent woman… (none of it good). LOL
March 11th, 2007 at 12:58 pmYou’re missing my point, unbelievable.
Then, please, explain…
Comment by unbelievable
I am not talking about metaphysics or the universe. Only our purpose for others on this earth.
Have you never learned something from a person, without that person realizing it? For example: When I was a teen, I looked at my mother’s life and decided I would never live her life.
Did my mother realize she had a purpose to show me I wanted a different life? Of course not.
C’mon….
March 11th, 2007 at 1:03 pmSKdeA: # 153.
You make some excellent points in that post.
March 11th, 2007 at 1:06 pmAnd I too question anyone saying they have compassion for everyone;that’s impossible,and just a platitude to make one feel better about ones self.
Response to #152 from VV “somethings are worth fighting for”///
I wonder how sure you would be about that had you been a medic with the Marines for 5 months at and aroundKhe Sanh, RVN…?
Please excuse me if I oppose war, but I have found it unhealthy for both the participants and those who send them there. It is inherently an EVIL undertaking, most especially when it results from lack of committment to avoiding it through diplomacy or other means.
March 11th, 2007 at 1:07 pm…lack of committment to avoiding it through diplomacy or other means.
Comment by angryvietnamvet
Yep.
March 11th, 2007 at 1:28 pmI am not talking about metaphysics or the universe. Only our purpose for others on this earth.
I’ve never really heard it in any other context…
Maybe it’s semantics… I just find the word ‘purpose’ to be intentional.
Have you never learned something from a person, without that person realizing it? For example: When I was a teen, I looked at my mother’s life and decided I would never live her life.
So, do you mean that you (generically) define the purpose of others?
I suppose it’s up to a person to determine what matters and what doesn’t matter to them. And, of course, that’s always subjective.
Did my mother realize she had a purpose to show me I wanted a different life? Of course not.
But it was you taking a purpose from the source you chose. Really had little to do with your mother’s purpose and more to do with you seeking a role model – which is really what a mother is supposed to be to her daughter – so if that’s what you mean, then well, I get what you’re saying. I still think it’s less of a ‘purpose’ in the traditional sense of the word… Though I’d have to think about other options. Which, I know, is picky, but really, without agreed upon definitions of words, communication is even more difficult than it already is.
Okay, so semantics… Thanks for clarifying.
I don’t know if I agree that there is such purpose, beyond what we perceive, but understand what you’re saying now.
C’mon….
Comment by Zooey — March 11, 2007 @ 1:03 pm
No… It was totally fair to ask you to explain it… The word has been used in our culture in a different context to mean a spiritual meaning to a person’s life that was beyond their choice.
March 11th, 2007 at 1:34 pm#154 – “BTW: You did tell a joke about your imaginary dead child, we all saw it. Why do you protest so much? You have no children dead or alive — no child sweetly consoled you, remember?”
Comment by Zooey
Let me amend my previous “compliment” – you are a LIAR who is occasionally compassionate. My post about my kids related how one consoled me. You perhaps have a difficult time with comprehension or have known no such compassion yourself. Either way, you are to be pitied.
Off to the beach for a fun-filled family day…..
March 11th, 2007 at 1:45 pmGotta run – have a great Sunday!
Comment by valiant venus — March 11, 2007 @ 12:36 pm
Off to the beach for a fun-filled family day…..
Comment by valiant venus — March 11, 2007 @ 1:45 pm
See, you are a liar.
March 11th, 2007 at 2:36 pmIt all started when shetold me to ignore someone with whom I was debating… blahblahblah…
Comment by unbelievable — March 11, 2007 @ 12:58 pm
look, you insipid, self-righteous, self-serving, sactimonious bitch – you always like to twist words to do your bidding, but i remember my words to you, because it’s some good advice that i learned and pass along as needed… i googled those words and came up with the exact content and context…
to refresh your memory, and to clarify for others, there was a 9/11 debate on a ROVE thread which started soon after it was posted at 11am… it got old and boring and completely hijacked and unbelievable was in the thick of it… when i returned to that thread and saw that the argument was still going on AFTER NEARLY ELEVEN HOURS, i posted this comment:
unbelievable – can’t believe you guys are still on that…
it’s OK if you don’t have the last word – i learned that when i took a parenting course – would think you knew that one as a teacher… it works!
http://thinkprogress.org/2006/04/26/breaking-rove-meeting-with-special-prosecutor-about-leak-case/#comment-524435
continue reading, if you care to see what un. believes is an attempt to
“scold and insult me, a tactic typical of those who manipulate others to get their way” … jeesh… that catholic upbringing has really scarred you…
let it go, girl! … your mom only did what she thought was right…
oh and, fyi, all of the 9/11 comments, except for un’s, just before mine, have been deleted from that thread… too bad…
and that’s MY last word on this thread… take it away, un…
March 11th, 2007 at 2:45 pmlook, you insipid, self-righteous, self-serving, sactimonious bitch – you always like to twist words to do your bidding, but i remember my words to you, because it’s some good advice that i learned and pass along as needed… i googled those words and came up with the exact content and context…
Wipe the froth off your mouth… LOL
to refresh your memory, and to clarify for others, there was a 9/11 debate on a ROVE thread which started soon after it was posted at 11am… it got old and boring and completely hijacked and unbelievable was in the thick of it… when i returned to that thread and saw that the argument was still going on AFTER NEARLY ELEVEN HOURS, i posted this comment:
I told you that you are obsessed with me… LOL
unbelievable – can’t believe you guys are still on that…
it’s OK if you don’t have the last word – i learned that when i took a parenting course – would think you knew that one as a teacher… it works!
http://thinkprogress.org/ 2006/ 04/ 26/ breaking-rove-meeting-with-special-prosecutor-about-leak-case/ #comment-524435
There’s your sanctimony.
I paraphrased that pretty well considering it was a whole freaking year ago…
continue reading, if you care to see what un. believes is an attempt to
“scold and insult me, a tactic typical of those who manipulate others to get their way†… jeesh… that catholic upbringing has really scarred you…
let it go, girl! … your mom only did what she thought was right…
Funny how you INSIST you aren’t patronizing and then go and say something undeniably patronizing.
What’s funny is that you keep trying to play the vitcim here whenyou started the whole thing by butting your big fat nose into somethig that had nothing to do with you. Like there weren’t other threads that you could have gone to instead? But, nooooo, you had to put in your two cents, and when I asked you to take your own advice, you became an even bigger pain-in-the-ass than usual.
oh and, fyi, all of the 9/11 comments, except for un’s, just before mine, have been deleted from that thread… too bad…
Because Judd thought you were nuts. My comments weren’t 9/11 Conspiracy Theory. They were scientific explanation of what occured. Clearly, you cannot differentiate.
and that’s MY last word on this thread… take it away, un…
Comment by katy — March 11, 2007 @ 2:45 pm
Yeah, right, sure… And highly unlikely… You’re about as likely to shut up as is your buddy MA. LOL. Perhaps you two hags should swap email addresses and talk about me behind my back – seeing as how obsessed you are with me that you cannot refrain from speaking to me… LOL You give new definition to the words freak show (and not for the better). If not this thread, then the next. LOL
March 11th, 2007 at 3:05 pmhttp://thinkprogress.org/ 2006/ 04/ 26/ breaking-rove-meeting-with-special-prosecutor-about-leak-case/ #comment-524435
Katy,
Yepper, there is the proof alright. And she is still babbling on to herself on this thread. Always has the last word, with nothing but fluff in between. She projects “much” as well. “Transferrance of pitiful self onto others” is the clinical term.”
Unbelievable.
Have a great Sunday Katy. And congratulations on your new position at TP as moderator. Any chance you can ban that one who calls itself “unbeleivable?”
Heh. Nahhh. Let’s keep her around for “slappin around fodder”
March 11th, 2007 at 4:13 pmThe current Gen. Eaton post w/ Bill Mahr is not accurate.
The general clearly said, “Republican” not “conservative” as the headline indicates. There is a big difference. Many so-called “paleo-conservatives” detest this administration.
Many life-long Republicans have denounced and changed their party affiliation.
Thanks for what you do.
March 11th, 2007 at 5:23 pmLet me amend my previous “compliment†– you are a LIAR who is occasionally compassionate.
Compliment? Even you admit you made no compliment — by your use of quotation marks.
My post about my kids related how one consoled me. You perhaps have a difficult time with comprehension or have known no such compassion yourself. Either way, you are to be pitied.
Comment by valiant venus
Wow. When you were MA you had more nerve, more spine. You are a proven liar, and you have no children, but you continue to drag that lie around with you.
Who needs your pity? Keep it for yourself.
March 11th, 2007 at 6:06 pmI wonder who ‘faceless accusation’ is?
March 11th, 2007 at 6:08 pmCould that be our dead friend Rachel?
He/she was the one who used the term TP. moderator.
You know whoever that freak is (Rachel) that they are soaking up everything written the last day or two.
#164 – unbelievable
Let me put it this way: It’s MY OPINION that everyone has a purpose.
Done.
March 11th, 2007 at 6:48 pmHeh. Nahhh. Let’s keep her around for “slappin around fodderâ€
Comment by faceless accusation — March 11, 2007 @ 4:13 pm
Back from the dead so soon Rachel? Upset that only two people actually believed you and cared? LOL
How do I know it’s you? You’re the only one who calls katy that… Funny how freaks like you and MA are the only ones who support her juvenile behavior… So telling of her character – and yours.
And, for the record, I eat your lunch every time you address me.
Get help. You’re as demented as they come.
March 11th, 2007 at 6:59 pmLet me put it this way: It’s MY OPINION that everyone has a purpose.
I assumed that considering it was you who wrote it…
Done.
Comment by Zooey — March 11, 2007 @ 6:48 pm
Oh, I assumed you were open for discussion… Okay.
March 11th, 2007 at 7:01 pmWhat’s to discuss, unbelievable?
I say everyone has a purpose, and you say there is no purpose. That’s pretty big impasse. It has nothing to do with any belief system, it’s simply my opinion that every person on earth has a purpose.
I don’t know why it’s important to argue the point further. You know how I feel, and I know how you feel.
March 11th, 2007 at 7:06 pmI don’t know why it’s important to argue the point further. You know how I feel, and I know how you feel.
Comment by Zooey
There is that little equation called “the last word” with unbelievable.
Another thread, another dollar eh unbelievable?
Please leave here unbelievable, I just filled up your broomstick, you should get 20-30 lightyears per tankful.
Now scram, you evil little witch unbeleivable!
March 11th, 2007 at 7:24 pmI don’t know why it’s important to argue the point further. You know how I feel, and I know how you feel.
Comment by Zooey — March 11, 2007 @ 7:06 pm
Oh, I don’t know – understanding. I wasn’t arguing. I was trying to understand what you were saying, from the basis of where I stand.
Guess I just like to know why people think or feel or believe things that I don’t, or don’t understand. Sometimes it’s enlightening to hear some one explain something. It’s how most people grow…
But if it upsets you – consider it dropped. Fortunately, there are other people willing to explain their points of view on other issues and I’ll go have a discussion with them instead. No big deal.
March 11th, 2007 at 7:25 pmThere is that little equation called “the last word†with unbelievable.
Unlike you, lying sack of shit Rachel, I actually write my own posts, and am capable of discussion. Jealous again, I see, so you resort to trying to insult me. Except that you’re human garbage.
Another thread, another dollar eh unbelievable?
Unlike you who is ALWAYS here 24/7, I don’t have to buy attention. You’re really priojecting today.
Let me explain – you won’t manipulate me Rachel. You aren’t good enough.
Please leave here unbelievable, I just filled up your broomstick, you should get 20-30 lightyears per tankful.
It’s YOU who has been banned, told to leave and habitually ignored.
I’m NOT going anywhere. Live with it psycho.
Now scram, you evil little witch unbeleivable!
Comment by personal experience — March 11, 2007 @ 7:24 pm
Piss off Rachel, you’ve blown the last of your credibility here with the two or three people who actually were willing to give you the benefit of the doubt.
Or did you miss how many people said that they didn’t care about you, would be happy if you were permanently gone, and thought you were a sick freak who lied to get attention.
Yeah, after lying about killing yourself, it is YOU who is persona non grata… Shoo!
March 11th, 2007 at 7:33 pmBut if it upsets you – consider it dropped. Fortunately, there are other people willing to explain their points of view on other issues and I’ll go have a discussion with them instead. No big deal.
Comment by unbelievable
That is passive/aggressive, unbelievable. You’re better than that.
I’m done with this now. Thanks.
March 11th, 2007 at 7:41 pmThat is passive/aggressive, unbelievable. You’re better than that.
No it isn’t. It’s me trying to explain that if you don’t want to talk about it, it’s no big deal because there are other people for me to talk to about other things – therefore I’m okay with letting it go, as I’ve said and for some reason you keep arguing about. Because I respect you, I was trying to explain… But you turn into an insult.
Come on Zoo – you’re better than this. Ad hominems instead of discussing the issue? Never would have expected that from you…
I’m done with this now. Thanks.
Comment by Zooey — March 11, 2007 @ 7:41 pm
Your done with it. Okay…
March 11th, 2007 at 7:51 pmunbelievable, there is no issue! I have not attacked you!
Can you possibly conceive that I might have other things going on in my life and mind, and don’t want to get into a huge discussion about one simple statement?
Just let it go, ok?
I need for you to let this go now.
March 11th, 2007 at 8:58 pmCan you possibly conceive that I might have other things going on in my life and mind, and don’t want to get into a huge discussion about one simple statement?
So it’s my fault? I’m supposed to clairvoyantly know what’s going on in your life, assume a simple discussion on ‘purpose’ would upset you this much, and be sympathetic to things going on in your life without getting the same courtesy in return?
No wonder men think women are crazy…
This is just weird and I don’t get it. But I no longer care…
You know – you all aren’t the only one with issues. I just don’t expect mine to be more important than everyone else’s or feel some right to use them to insult or dominate or put down people while expecting to get a free pass on it.
And then you want me to be the bad guy here? No thanks. I’m not here for that.
Just let it go, ok?
Oh, I did. Your turn.
I need for you to let this go now.
Comment by Zooey — March 11, 2007 @ 8:58 pm
Whatever. Call me names now… Say I’m the bad person… Judge me… Frankly – I’m sick of it. Have the last word. Have a nice life. I no longer give a shit.
March 11th, 2007 at 9:14 pmHave the last word. Have a nice life. I no longer give a shit.
Comment by unbelievable
This thread will hear from you again I am betting…
Just sayin…
March 11th, 2007 at 9:19 pmHave the last word. Have a nice life. I no longer give a shit.
Comment by unbelievable
Oh, we’ll be hearing from you alot more on this thread. I am betting as well. The “last word” is like Lay’s potato chips to you unbelievable, you can’t have just one. Can you?
I am betting not. From “personal experience”
Heh. You drama queen.
Note to Self: ” Never depend on unbelievable in a life and death situation” , just look at how she handled the rachel thing.
What a reptile.
Unbelievable.
March 11th, 2007 at 9:33 pmZooey, why does it matter to you that everyone should have a purpose? Sounds like you are afraid. Sounds like you are a control freak. If you need a purpose fine. Don’t impose your fears and expectations on the rest of us. Frankly, there is no purpose and thats quite acceptable to me. Been on the brink of dead in combat more than once and thats how I came to that conclusion. Believe what you want, but dont’ lay your trip on the rest of us. We don’t need such beliefs. You fear that if you and everyone else has no purpose you have no meaning? You take yourself and life far too seriously. Its all a big fucking joke. You are born and then you die. End of story. And Im happy with that. I don’t come in here to discuss the meaning of life or anything of the kind. I have settled those matters for myself long ago. But I just can’t resist responding to your continued postings about this issue. You are really quite obsessed with it. (Maybe my purpose in life is to tell you this? …right…sure…aha….
March 11th, 2007 at 10:55 pmThat Rachel must have been having a hard time of it. You see, she just recently lost her mother and her only companion in the whole world. I hope she really didn’t kill herself. I mean being totally disabled like she was and losing her only caregiver she has known for all these years, no wonder she might have felt like not living.
I have emailed them twice now and the first time they did in fact state a “Rachel Renaldo Jacinta Kinnardi” did in fact die and that it was drug related, and was still under investigation by Federal Marshall’s, and therefore no information would be published at this time since it was still under investigation. The second time I tried them, their basic reply was, “We won’t disclose that information upon orders of the tribal and US authorities”
I wonder if they will at least post an obituary for Rachel Renaldo Jacinta Kinnardi, if she did in fact die. Then we will know for sure. But what happens if they don’t? Are drug lords not allowed to know she died just yet?
http://www.rlnn.com/assets/RachelBarrett.html
Rachel Mary Barrett
Red Lake Net News
Michael Barrett
P. O. Box 80
Redby, MN 56670
Telephone: 218-679-5995
mbarrett@rlnn.com
Rachel Mary Barrett, whose Ojibwe name was Zhiigaa-Ikwe which means Widow Woman, 84, of Redby, died on Monday, Feb. 19, 2007, at Red Lake Indian Hospital in Red Lake.
A funeral will be held at 10 a.m. on Saturday at the St. Antipas Episcopal Church in Redby with Rev. George Ross officiating. A visitation will be held from 5-7 p.m. on Friday at the Cease Family Funeral Home of Bemidji with a prayer service at 7 p.m. and one hour prior to the service on Saturday at the church.
Burial will be in the spring in St. Antipas Episcopal Cemetery in Redby.
March 11th, 2007 at 11:05 pm#186 Tuscan Ears….Its time to open your EARS: please see my posting #108, in which the mystery of the “death” of this fiction called Rachel Kinnardi is laid to rest (R.I.P.)…..Don’t you get it: THIS IS PURE FABRICATION … FICTION…hello, are you in the reality based world or what? Or let me put it this way: ITS ALL SICK BULLSHIT. Get over it.
March 11th, 2007 at 11:13 pmWow! Rachel keeps trying to rise from the dead, like Jesus or Carrie or something… what a lot of fun. What was the thread about anyway?
March 12th, 2007 at 12:41 amHi Zooey, doing great! I am at work actually, listening to a fabulous young (15-17 yrs) jazz trio, it gives me hope for the future.
Sounds like Unby either has had a LOT of caffeine today or maybe it’s PMS, girlfriend, chill out! We all think you’re fine! I didn’t see Zooey call you any names…
Very hard to type in the dark here, I will check in tomorrow.
Comment by Briseadh na Faire — March 10, 2007 @ 11:47 pm
Hey thanks – apparently I was having an overly sentimental moment.
March 12th, 2007 at 1:53 amActually,I think you both have made good points on the subject.
Like yinyang,both equal and opposite can exist within the same sphere.
I think what this boils down to is that Zooey wants to be forgiving of the Rachel hoax,and Unbelievable,well,not so much,or atleast indifferent to it.
As much as I’d like to come down somewhere in the middle;I have to tilt toward Unbelievable’s side-due simply to the fact that there has to be consequences to misbehavior,and in this hoax case,probably a law or two broken.
If anyone wants to nurture Rachel in the future,you should trust her/him with your e-mail address and feed them there.
Unbelievable and Zooey,you’re both to important to this site,and to each other to let this small disagreement end your long standing relationship.
Sincerely, GURU ^
March 12th, 2007 at 2:17 amUnbelievable and Zooey,you’re both {too} important to this site,and to each other to let this small disagreement {disrupt} your long
standing relationship.
Sorry for the re-do.
March 12th, 2007 at 2:35 amOkay, first on the thread:
I have been pointing this out for years.
Now on the argument:
Zooey, unbelievable is a architect, not a writer. She sometimes doesn’t come across saying something in the best manner possible, but she is a straightforward person – generally take it that she is talking straight and that if she meant any offense she would do it straight. Realise her working culture is a cross between classroom and a construction site – she doesn’t mean the subtext, because she isn’t passive aggressive, she is aggressive aggressive.
Katy, the main problem you seem to have with unbelievable is that she sometimes disagrees with you and holds her ideals above any party loyalty. I still remember when I was arguing in favour of voting independent if you didn’t believe either party was any good and how you reacted to me, so don’t go preaching on about the flaws of unbelievable.
Unbelievable, hey we are all good people here, we just tend to see the flaws in each other more clearly then the flaws in ourselves, and one of your flaws is you aren’t always 100% tactful. Frankly, I passed the point of giving a shit about being tactful about two years ago, but I am somewhat more aware of when I am being offensive (Like now for example. Horribly pretentious and pompous, and lots of other words starting with a “P” of of me I know.) We are on the same side, we can correct and make each other stronger, its just going to take time for everyone else to catch up on this concept.
Oh, and I am in the camp that says people don’t have a purpose, but not everything that has value in and of itself, need have a purpose. Purpose and value are seperate concepts to me, and generally as an atheist I tend to shy away from the idea of some divine plan. While life has value, I don’t see that it precisely needs a purpose in order to attain that value.
March 12th, 2007 at 2:43 amWhich is to say, if Rachel hasn’t followed through on comitting suicide, I think it is basically indicitive of her being something of a drama queen, but it is better then if she killed herself.
I wouldn’t mourn her passing, I live in a country where there is enough of a crime problem for me to have a lot of deaths that weren’t voluntary for me to mourn over someone whose death was, but even so it is better that she didn’t follow through then that she did.
March 12th, 2007 at 2:51 amI’ll say this for Rachel,she/he makes for interesting conversation.
March 12th, 2007 at 3:50 amI hate the fact innocent people get killed in war….whether they are Germans, Japanese, Koreans, VietNamese or Iraqi
Comment by valiant venus — March 11, 2007 @ 12:19 pm’s.
The U.S. has been responsible for more civilian deaths in 4 years than that evildoer Saddam H. in 20.
Comment by angryvietnamvet — March 11, 2007 @ 12:33 pm
Well said angryvietnamvet. Notice VV doesn’t say civilian deaths she say innocents. So I guess she’s all for killing soldiers, probably on both sides, because they’re guilty to her. Sign her up and ship her out because she clearly has a firm grasp on war.
March 12th, 2007 at 10:54 am#178 – “Guess I just like to know why people think or feel or believe things that I don’t, or don’t understand. Sometimes it’s enlightening to hear some one explain something. It’s how most people grow…”
You’ve NEVER demonstrated wanting to know how other people think of feel in this forum – why START now?
Angry vet – Get off the Guardian website and (even the BBC is skewed lately) and do some more investigation – I’m disappointed your methodology is so sloppy!
March 12th, 2007 at 3:26 pmI’m getting a sense that unbelievable might be I-polar – - Making a MOUNTAIN out of a molehill “the meaning of the word ‘purpose’” .
From free online dictionary:
1. The object toward which one strives or for which something exists; an aim or a goal: “And ever those, who would enjoyment gain/Must find it in the purpose they pursue” Sarah Josepha Hale.
2. A result or effect that is intended or desired; an intention. See Synonyms at intention.
3. Determination; resolution: He was a man of purpose.
4. The matter at hand; the point at issue.
tr.v. pur·posed, pur·pos·ing, pur·pos·es
To intend or resolve to perform or accomplish.
Idioms:
Glad to help…..
March 12th, 2007 at 3:39 pmShane, Angryvet – - Fifth columnists have been popping out from the cracks – I find it sad when an American roots for the enemy. But thankfully, you have a Constitutional right to do so.
Tooodles……
March 12th, 2007 at 3:51 pmVV….And who is “the enemy”….To me the real enemy is in the White HOuse and in the congress and on the Corporate Boards and ThinkTanks…I fear their influence on my life far more than any bombthrower from outside the home of the sheep….Do I hate America? No. I just don’t want the nation hijacked by neonazis, christofascists and corporate imperialists. The danger of the “enemy” out there (islamofascists, commies, mongolian hordes, moorish invaders etc) is not going to make this country fail. It is the enemy within, the ones who trust the BushChaney cabal…who are just the face of the problem. I must confess, I am looking into moving permanently out of the U.S. and not because I fear terrorists, but because I fear the government and its doings. I dont want my grandchildren to live in this country.
March 12th, 2007 at 4:12 pm.To me the real enemy is in the White HOuse…
It is the enemy within, the ones who trust the BushChaney cabal…
Comment by angryvietnamvet
Sorry Valiant V.,but I must agree with both of those sentiments.
March 12th, 2007 at 5:57 pmIn other words this guy is calling the majority of soldiers that support Bush…idiots. I guess this guy takes his ques from John Kerry. I like how he says “we need to get a message out…” I think that the majority of the soldiers in the military would tell him to stick his message up his ass.
March 12th, 2007 at 7:00 pm#192
“Zooey, unbelievable is a architect, not a writer.”
No she isn’t. She might have studied architecture but she isn’t an architect.
March 12th, 2007 at 7:09 pmI remember an Ayn Rand buff from my days in the Navy back in the 60’s.
March 12th, 2007 at 11:05 pmHe got perfect evaluations, but he covered up a major leave selling operation in his personnel office. His total lack of integrity still sends chills up my spine. The Air Force also had some bad actors in sponsoring 911. Most military people seem to be physically brave, but they are moral and intellectual cowards. I’m glad that this country has no real vital threats against it.
#203
Are you suggesting that the U.S. government had something to do with the attacks on 9/11?
“Most military people seem to be physically brave, but they are moral and intellectual cowards.”
You mean SOME. I think my brother who is major in the USAF and is a commander in AWACS would like to have a few words with your dishonsest assessment of MOST military people.
March 13th, 2007 at 1:29 pm“Bush administration and its allies in Congress have “absolutely been the worst thing that’s happened to the United States Army and the United States Marine Corps.” This retired colonel agrees wholeheartedly
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