Upset Over Canceled Fox Debate, Kondracke Attacks ‘Left-Wing Liberals’ As ‘Junior-Grade Stalinists’
Upset Over Canceled Fox Debate, Kondracke Attacks ‘Left-Wing Liberals’ As ‘Junior-Grade Stalinists’
On Saturday night’s episode of Fox News’ Beltway Boys, co-host Mort Kondracke blasted the decision by the Nevada Democratic Party to pull out of a Fox News-sponsored presidential debate.
Kondracke said, “This tells you a lot about what Moveon.org, Daily Kos kind of left-wing liberals are all about. I mean they are not about free speech and free debate.” He added, “This is junior grade Stalinism on their part.” Defending his network, Kondracke claimed, “If Fox was embarrassingly right wing or something like that, it would be plain for all to see.” Watch it:
Indeed, the heart of the problem is Fox’s propensity to be “embarrassingly right wing.”
As Atrios has said, “The problem with Fox isn’t that it’s conservative, it’s that it’s basically a propaganda outlet” for right-wing partisans. Matt Stoller added that the Fox News audience is not the issue, “the problem that we have is that allowing Fox News to singlehandedly host the debate gives that channel the legitimacy of claiming to be a real news source.” And the more deference Fox is given as “a ’serious’ news operation,” notes Markos, the greater platform it has to peddle unfounded smears against the left.
By refusing to engage these substantive concerns, tonight’s Beltway Boys segment helped prove the point.
(HT: Newshounds)
Transcript:
KONDRACKE: Now this tells you a lot. Fox or no Fox, this tells you a lot about what the Moveon.org, Daily Kos kind of left-wing liberals are all about. I mean they are not about free speech and free debate. If Fox, you know, was embarrassingly right wing or something like that, it would be plain for all to see. They just want to stop at any of their — any Democrats from participating in this because it is a Fox thing, and they’re willing to intimidate them to do it. This is junior grade Stalinism on their part.
BARNES: Stalin?
KONDRACKE: Stalin.
BARNES: Alright, I agree.
Topic Cloud
ArchivesBlog Roll
This is junior grade Stalinism on their part.
BARNES: Stalin?
KONDRACKE: Stalin.
BARNES: Ok, I agree.
Ha ha ha! So insightful, so deep, so simple, so stupid. Just post the name of your favorite villain and make a quick comparison with the people you dislike at the moment and… there you go! Suddenly, you have an actual argument!
Just for clarification. Stalin´s regime was a totalitarian regime. That means a regime where you can be arrested and prosecuted without a trial, where you cant express your views, where the fear culture prevails and a sympathy for military ideas is reinforced in the general population. Sounds familiar?
March 11th, 2007 at 3:19 amKondrake is kind of a whiny little pussy, isn’t he?
March 11th, 2007 at 3:30 amAnd Kondrake is the Fox “liberal”. Sorry bitch, if Freddy agrees with you, you are no liberal.
March 11th, 2007 at 3:31 amI look at these two haters and think to myself,
“Remember those two miserable, old player-haters from “The Muppet Show†who sat in the balcony, made fun of the performers and asked themselves why they kept showing up each week to watch the show?”
They have come alive!
(hat tip: Random Thoughts 101)
March 11th, 2007 at 3:38 amFaux is bush’s Pravda. Kondracke has become a whore to his masters at spin central. He must be paid well – to sell out so completely disappoints those of us who remember him in better days when he was a good reporter. Faux = nr. one in White House propaganda.
March 11th, 2007 at 3:45 amOh, and forcing Democrats in Congress to hold meetings in basements and cutting off their microphones and leaving in the middle of one isn’t considered “non-democratic”? Telling a Senator to “go f**k yourself” on the floor is considered “adult” behaviour? Not wanting to have any hearings on Iraq is “responsible behaviour”?
The Beltway Boys should try spending more time out of the Beltway and spend some quality time in real life America…where people actually work.
March 11th, 2007 at 3:47 amMethinks JPark protestith too much. He does, however, punctuate Kondracke’s analysis perfectly. I understand that while help is available, many won’t seek it.
March 11th, 2007 at 3:54 amOh, how they scream when you hit a soft spot.
March 11th, 2007 at 3:14 amThe Neo-Cons and the sensationalists that support them are so far off the charts and scrambling since November. So far the preferred response has been to call names be it Stalin or faggot…
March 11th, 2007 at 3:23 amMethinks JPark protestith too much. He does, however, help illustrate Kondracke’s point perfectly.
March 11th, 2007 at 3:24 amHow is it that I protestith (sic) too much? The supposed Fox liberal is a fricking Fox righty. Kind of obvious, really.
March 11th, 2007 at 3:33 amIt’s really a joke when Fox claim they’re not biased towards the right when it’s so blatantly obvious. The Stalin comment just proves how far off the mark they are and how low they’ll go.
March 11th, 2007 at 3:33 amJo BOD, you along with your little wiener Kondracke can’t handle intelligent people. Go away before your pathetic front is destroyed.
March 11th, 2007 at 3:35 am[...] political news media. Think Progress Editor Faiz Shakir provides a perfect example of FOX News pushing a partisan political agenda; exactly the sort of thing that party activists pointed to as justification for a pull out. [...]
March 11th, 2007 at 3:39 am“Oh, how they scream when you hit a soft spot.” Your response was anticipated. How prophetic.
March 11th, 2007 at 3:43 amPoor Jo BOD, I feel for you. You come here to make yourself feel better about yourself but…it doesn’t work…does it? Poor, poor deadender.
March 11th, 2007 at 3:46 amThis “If Fox, you know, was embarrassingly right wing or something like that, it would be plain for all to see. ” is priceless.
I just read in the section “Mainstream Media” of “The Progressives’ Handbook,” by Heather Wokusch [http://www.heatherwokusch.com/]: “Here’s how a Fox executive discussed the purchase of local stations in Tampa: ‘We paid 43 billion for these television stations. We decide what the news is. The news is what we tell you it is.”
Plain enough, isn’t it?
By the way, this is an excellent book I warmly recommend as a reference book on the abominations of the Bush&Co. era.
March 11th, 2007 at 3:51 amI also discovered recently that Wokusch has a series of videos posted at http://www.youtube.com/heatherwokusch, one of them about the media.
Hi … These guys sound pretty angry and extreme to me. But extremists on the left and the right have always sounded pretty much the same to me. I like what Peggy Noonan has to say here about this type of rhetoric: http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/pnoonan/?id=110009761&mod=RSS_Opinion_Journal&ojrss=frontpage
March 11th, 2007 at 3:54 amMort Kondrake: If Fox was embarrassingly right wing or something like that, it would be plain for all to see.
Imelda Marcos: If these things they say about me were true, you could look at me and see the corruption.
March 11th, 2007 at 4:59 amAs one person put it Conservatives have not avoided debates held by CBS, ABCNEWS, CNN, NEWYORK TIMES, AND others that are blatantly kind to the left wing. Yet Edwards and comapny are responding to the far left bloggers and webbers to avoid one of the most watched programs. Somehow if leftist watch the debate on Foxnews they are going to get cooties.
March 11th, 2007 at 5:14 am“If Fox was embarrassingly right wing or something like that, it would be plain for all to see.â€
March 11th, 2007 at 5:35 amThese guys are completely disconnected, and they obviously don’t watch Fox.
Just about everyone knows that Fox is not interested in objective reality or truth. Fox is admittedly biased and in no way is a neutral center thats required for debate.
“All politicians operate within an Orwellian nimbus where words don’t mean what they normally mean, but FOXism posits that there is no objective, verifiable reality at all. Reality is what you say it is”
Any conservative with half a mind can see government has not decreased under modern conservatism, it has increased 35%. FOX is not about fiscal conservatism nor reality.
March 11th, 2007 at 6:33 amThat is hilarious! “If”?
It sounds like this move really hurt them. Fox desperately wants to be seen as legitimate. Pulling the plug on that debate was an excellent move.
March 11th, 2007 at 6:33 amJesus Camp and George Bush
Camp counselors have children rally around and cardbaord cutout of George Bush and chant to it …….
man this is sick what your doing to children in America
March 11th, 2007 at 7:16 amWOULDN’T A REAL NEWS ORGANIZATION HAVE THESE “JUNIOR GRADE STALINISTS” ACTUALLY ON THIER SHOW TO ASK THEM ABOUT THEIR POSITIONS?
YOU KNOW DO SOME JOURNAMALIZING?
March 11th, 2007 at 7:17 amWould someone remind them that this is classic example of the market forces taking over. What obligations, either altruistically or on any level, compel anyone to comply with a business organization?
March 11th, 2007 at 7:40 amI think what their, Fox News’s, worse nightmare is the future editing people will be able to do with their cable subscriptions. Why couldn’t someone just have their cable company just take the fox channel of their list or have it banned. Think advertisers want to see that? If Fox news didn’t exist where would these guys go?
March 11th, 2007 at 7:44 am“If Fox was embarrassingly right wing or something like that, it would be plain for all to see.â€
it would & it is.
duh.
March 11th, 2007 at 7:46 amJuan C
You forgot to mention that Stalin didn’t like generals who didn’t agree with him much either.
March 11th, 2007 at 7:52 amWho cares about Fox? I’m so sick of their bitching. Any time anyone calls them on their shit it’s “farrrrrrr lefttt radicals at scary sites like moveon.org”. Because the only sane Democrats in their opinion are those that roll over and let them smear away, no matter how outrageous or false the smear…and we’re supposed to just accept it and treat them as a serious news organization!
HELL NO
I removed the Fox Channel from my tv because I don’t even want to have to catch a glimpse of Hannity, OReilly, Gibson, Coulter, and all the other disgusting right wing character assassins..not even for a second.
March 11th, 2007 at 7:53 amThe debate can go on, just not on FOX.
This is a great move by Dems, it hits FOX where it hurts most – the pocket book. FOX an watch and then put the right-wingnut spin on the debate as they always do. They will just not make so much money. Maybe Kondrake has been told that he will be let go without advertiser’s money.
March 11th, 2007 at 7:54 amShow me someone who cusses out liberals, and I’ll show you a degenerate.
March 11th, 2007 at 7:55 amTo quote Whitney Huston, Fox “is whack”.
March 11th, 2007 at 7:55 amNO!! I won’t watch it. Faux is not allowed into this home.
March 11th, 2007 at 7:55 amDouglas at #18,
CBS, ABC, and CNN are conservative because they do not report truth’s that upset the status quo. In fact, I would put most of the Democrats in Congress in the same category. This country is in serious trouble and the forces that are supposed to be “progressive” are doing nothing to reign in the radical elements on the right but they’re doing everything not to upset the applecart because the current societal equation is working very nicely for them. Profits are up…..way up.
Brain dead right wingers have been (ok that’s redundant) told by the real radicals (FOX, Rush, et al.) that they’re the antidote to the so-called liberal media and now that fallacious meme is stuck in their confused heads.
The big networks, with no exceptions, were cheerleaders for the invasion of Iraq. They haven’t held the criminal Bush administration accountable for domestic spying, torture, their ‘unitary executive’ power grab, wiretapping, extraordinary rendition, their manipulation of the threat of terrorism when it’s politically convenient, WMD lies, forged documents in the runup to war, Downing Street memo, and on and on. All of this has been well-documented at places like Media Matters and throughout the blogosphere and foreign news sources, just not here in the bubble.
You need to start paying closer attention to the facts and not the rightwing spin.
March 11th, 2007 at 8:10 amFOX News – nothing buy whiny little wieners.
March 11th, 2007 at 8:32 amIt’s sort of sad to see Kondracke and Barnes like this. Believe it or not, those two actually were insightful, informative, and above all fact-based journalists for The New Republic back in the late ’80s and early ’90s. While they were certainly moderate or centrist in their view of things, they gave the impression that they recognized there was something called objective reality out there somewhere.
Like so many so-called conservatives, they were apparently completely unhinged by 9/11, and their resulting fear and rage made them very willing suckers for the BushCo ideology. The fact that these guys are still clinging to Bush’s skirts when conservatives like Joe Scarborough, George F. Will, and William F. Buckley have all publicly recognized the failings of King George and Lord High Protector Cheney tells you all you need to know about them.
March 11th, 2007 at 9:07 amThis is a great victory for democracy.
Of course the FOX fascists are upset, we ruined their evil plans.
March 11th, 2007 at 9:10 amBARNES: Which GOP scandal or failure should we tackle next, Mort?KONDRACKE: Take your pick.
March 11th, 2007 at 9:20 amBARNES: What about Scooter Libby? Iraq? Walter Reed? What about the US Attorneys? Maybe Dick Cheney and Karl Rove and their role in the Plame mess? Oh, hey, it’s time for a break. When we get back: Anna Nichole Smith, is she still dead?
Well, lets see: Wingers Hannity, O’Reilly, Gibson, Hume, Barnes, Doucy et al. are “balanced” by Colmes, Kondrake, and um, that’s it. Kondracke, alumnus of McLaughlin and the New Republic, has been a yes man for Rethuglican alpha males for many, many years now.
March 11th, 2007 at 9:27 amWhat is FOX whining about?
They use their network for wingnut propaganda and yet they bitch and moan if the left doesn’t want to play along? Poor babies. Are their wittle feelings hurt?
They are mostly pissed because their ratings are dropping.
And it doesn’t matter what Democratic candidates do — FOX will twist the truth to their own end. It works for some of their idiot audience, but more and more see they are being played for fools.
March 11th, 2007 at 9:27 am“If Fox, you know, was embarrassingly right wing or something like that, it would be plain for all to see”
Yes it would.
March 11th, 2007 at 9:27 amDougie @18
dougie, assuming you actually read and think about responses to your posts… in addition to Jay’s excellent response #32 about the MSM stenography about the wars we’re in now, those “blatantly kind to the left wing” news outlets were “all Monica all the time” during the Clinton years. the NY Times in particular, ran countless op-eds calling for his impeachment. Until Faux News starts being the least bit critical bush (and complaining that the bush administration isn’t being tough on terror because they haven’t arrested ted Kennedy and sent him to Gitmo doesn’t count) Faux, and you don’t have a leg to stand on.
March 11th, 2007 at 9:38 amI applaud the Democratic Party for “calling a spade, a spade”. If Fox has a problem with that, they can kiss my poopie-doopie and “stick it where the sun don’t shine”. -heh-
March 11th, 2007 at 9:39 amJudging by thier response to the Party’s decision, propaganda is indeed the underlying issue and they are a highly illegitimate and dishonest news source to say otherwise.
#35: It’s sort of sad to see Kondracke and Barnes like this. Believe it or not, those two actually were insightful, informative, and above all fact-based journalists for The New Republic back in the late ’80s and early ’90s.
Thanks, that’s what I was remembering. Since I avoid cable “news” like the plague, and gave up on TNR years ago as simply unreadable, I wasn’t sure if I could trust my memory about both of these jokers. I was thinking “Wait, isn’t Kondracke a liberal, kinda sorta?”
But, apparently, he’s a foxliberal these days. Too bad.
Why would anyone brag about being The Beltway Boys? Might just as well call it the Irrelevant Blowhards.
March 11th, 2007 at 9:43 amcongress needs to break-up Big Media, starting with the fox and the rat.
March 11th, 2007 at 9:46 am.
Can FOX whine a little louder? I can’t hear them above the din of thier ratings’ drop.
March 11th, 2007 at 9:48 am#43
March 11th, 2007 at 9:48 amyeah! or the “Beltway Blowhards” , Or “Repub Reguritators”
The Democrats should pull out of everything that FoxNews sponsors. It is a government-run organization that has no desire to report news.
March 11th, 2007 at 9:50 amBetter red than brain dead, Kondracke.
March 11th, 2007 at 9:53 amKodracket and Barnes….are the stars of ‘ B.S. cafe’ .
They are the veneer and paint coating used by FOX to hide rotten wood underneath,from being exposed and seen by the public….
K & B: the people see what is under the paint.
No more B.S. of ‘fair and balanced’….
March 11th, 2007 at 9:56 am#48- Or, better red than in bed, with the likes of the brain-dead FOX News.
March 11th, 2007 at 10:00 amI see their logic. We don’t want Faux to host the debate, therefore we don’t want debate at all. And, it’s the liberals that can control whether or not we have debate in this country because we are so powerful. And, it’s a reflection of the citizens wishes…which is SOOO Stalinist. It’s like kid A being called stupid by kid B on the playground when Kid A doesn’t want to play with kid B because he’s a cheater, liar, and bully.
March 11th, 2007 at 10:00 amMr. Kondracke, here is a little tip for you. Name calling is no substitute for reasoned argument!
March 11th, 2007 at 10:08 amDon’t you love seeing the wingnuts in a pissy fit for being jilted? “What have we done,” they whine, “that you don’t love us?” The discomfiture is priceless. The Democrats need to do this far, far more often.
March 11th, 2007 at 10:14 am#52- He can’t help it. His last job was with The National Enquirer as editor-in-chief, before they found out he had a sexual relationship with an extraterrestrial in a far, distant gallaxy and also fathered a black baby out of wedlock with Ann Counlter, while on crack cocaine.
March 11th, 2007 at 10:17 amFNC is so right.Why don’t democrats have any back bone?
March 11th, 2007 at 10:18 amLiberals are cowards
March 11th, 2007 at 10:19 amIF the debates are on cable tv, they should be on c-span. I would much rather listen to listeners who call in, than pundits who are paid to shape the outcome. Brian Lamb is the best.
March 11th, 2007 at 10:23 am#s 55 & 56- Are you that baby I was just talking about? How’s that addiction coming along?
March 11th, 2007 at 10:25 amI know EXACTLY why Kondracke pulled the “Stalin” reference. The whole NEOCON industry, as it exists, was formed by a group of disillusioned far-Leftists who largely admired Leon Trotsky, Stalin’s top rival for control of the Russian Communist Party. Trotsky supported the Marxist notion of a worldwide “permanent revolution” against the bourgeoisie.
As presented by Marx and Engels,
It is our interest and our task to make the revolution permanent until all the more or less propertied classes have been driven from their ruling positions, until the proletariat has conquered state power and until the association of the proletarians has progressed sufficiently far – not only in one country but in all the leading countries of the world – that competition between the proletarians of these countries ceases and at least the decisive forces of production are concentrated in the hands of the workers. … Their battle-cry must be: “The Permanent Revolution.
Notice the “conquered state power” comment. Of course, the key difference between the founding Neocon leaders’ original position and their current position is simply a shift in their whlehearted backing of the humble proletariat/working class to their wholehearted backing of the bourgeoisie/corporate class.
March 11th, 2007 at 10:25 amTHAT is why Kondracke pulled the Stalin reference. Trotsky was murdered by Stalin’s men 11 years after being expelled from the Soviet Union. Kondracke is a neocon who knows the typical Fox viewer won’t know the true history of the Neocon movement but will know who Stalin was.
Why is Kondracke trying to stiffle the free speech of millions of Americans by attacking them from his right wing News Network?
March 11th, 2007 at 10:28 amOOOOOO DON’T GET ME BIG BAD FOX NEWS CHANNEL!!!
March 11th, 2007 at 10:30 amPhil, you’re a moron. Just so you’ll understand, Fox News is NEVER right. Fox News is only right-WING.
March 11th, 2007 at 10:31 amIf Fox News told us “President Bush has just resigned”, I’d still need a second source before I’d believe them.
Thats because your a liberal and you only believe what Olbermann tells you is true.
March 11th, 2007 at 10:36 amThe shoe seems to be on the other foot for a change and fox runs for their hole. True display of republican cover. A point to make $$$$ on? Of course. Weak, childish and obsurd.
March 11th, 2007 at 10:40 am“Junior-grade Stalinist’s” That’s certainly the sort of measured, uncolored language one would expect from an objective, unbiased news organization, isn’t it?
March 11th, 2007 at 10:40 amPhil, you’re a moron.
Comment by JosephW
Couldn’t have said it better myself.
March 11th, 2007 at 10:40 amphil knows he’s a morAn. That’s why he’s here reveling in all the morAnic glory of his fellow morAns at Fox News.
atta boy, phil. Keep up that white knuckle clutch…
*glurb*
March 11th, 2007 at 10:41 amThere is help for what you suffer.Fox News Derangement Syndrome.I hope you will get better one day.
March 11th, 2007 at 10:44 amOf course if you don’t agree with Neocons and give then an opporunity to run the debate,then you are called Stalin…..
If you don’t agree with their Neocon policies…then you are helping Bin Ladin
If you don’t vote Neocons people in offices,then you are a ‘defeatist’
If a leader of another country does not support Neocons theories of global dominance,then he is called ‘Hitler’.
If Neocon like Libby was convicted by a jury, then he is a candidate for a pardon.
March 11th, 2007 at 10:45 am“No free speach, no debate?” What horseshit. Ask georgie boy how he and his party stiffled “free” on any number of things. The list is certainly long. Point in case, you need to pledge allegance to the right’s party to attend a bush rally (in the event that one might like to sicken themselves). The “chosen audience” is the rights strength. “FREE” is not right (as in neocon) by any means.
March 11th, 2007 at 10:47 amactually, i watched this, and the show isnt live, its taped. and i think it was taped before the news about the debate.
they are talking about john edwards not being in the debate, not the cancellation itself.
March 11th, 2007 at 10:56 amIt can’t be easy at FOX News these days. They spent the last 6 years being 100% supporters of the Bush Administration. Now they have to try to spin the BUSH RECORD for Republicans in 2008. The voters aren’t buying it.
March 11th, 2007 at 10:59 amAs one person put it Conservatives have not avoided debates held by CBS, ABCNEWS, CNN, NEWYORK TIMES, AND others that are blatantly kind to the left wing. Yet Edwards and comapny are responding to the far left bloggers and webbers to avoid one of the most watched programs. Somehow if leftist watch the debate on Foxnews they are going to get cooties.
Comment by Douglas
HA, HA, HA, HA
I didn’t know there were any idiots left that believe MSM is liberal. Let’s see NBC owned by General Electric, financier of all major business deals and weapons manufacturer. CBS, owned by Westinghouse a major weapons manufacturer. ABC less extreme right that the others. CNN major sell out that most of us don’t watch anymore.
These guys are avoiding the network that their base refuses to watch and you have a problem with that.
Please stick your head back up your ass before you say something else stupid.
March 11th, 2007 at 11:05 amIt’ll be very interesting when Fox’s marquee “talent” returns to the air this week. I fully expect O’Loofah and Hannity to crank up the rhetoric on this story with the ‘Stalinist’ and ‘Dems are cowards’ angles.
For FOX to have the opposition party refuse to play ball on their propagandist court is a devastating blow to their phony facade. Panic must be sweeping through the corporate offices at Faux.
Honestly, the Dems should have done this three years ago.
March 11th, 2007 at 11:09 amWhen you put up with Senior Grade Fascists for 6 years push is going to come to shove…
March 11th, 2007 at 11:09 amStalin would be better than Bush. Atleast he wouldn’t be forcing religion on everyone… And his wars would be honest…
Hell, who wouldn’t be better than Bush? Even ‘Satan” would be an improvment – he’s at least have goals…
(This was sarcasm trolls, so unclench and keep going)
March 11th, 2007 at 11:11 amLiberals are cowards
Comment by phil — March 11, 2007 @ 10:19 am
Phil – don’t make me come over there and kick your whiney little ass back to the Stone Age.
Oh sorry – I forgot you neocons don’t believe in evolution or the Stone Age.
Perhaps that’s why your brain is stuck in that really small skull of your.
Oh and Phil, YAWN.
March 11th, 2007 at 11:12 amHeh.
Somebody call a waaaaaaahmbulance.
March 11th, 2007 at 11:13 amIn case you are wondering who actually owns the media, here is a list:
http://www.freepress.net/ownership/chart.php
General Electric media-related holdings include television networks NBC Universal and Telemundo, Universal Pictures, Focus Features, 38 television stations in the U.S., and cable networks such as MSNBC, Bravo and the Sci Fi Channel.
Time Warner is the largest media conglomerate in the world, with holdings including The WB Television Network, CNN, HBO, Cinemax, Cartoon Network, TBS, TNT, America Online, MapQuest, Moviefone, Netscape, Warner Bros. Pictures, Castle Rock, and New Line Cinema, over 150 magazines such as Time, Cooking Light, Marie Claire and People, and the Atlanta Braves baseball team.
Time Warner services 17.9% of all cable subscribers, gaining 3.5 million subscribers from its joint aquisition of Adelphia with Comcast. Time Warner now has 14.4 million cable customers (plus 1.5 million held in partnership with Comcast).
News Corporation, one of the largest media conglomerates in the world, owns The Fox Broadcasting Company, television and cable networks such as Fox, National Geographic and FX, 37 television stations, print publications including The New York Post and TVGuide, book publisher HarperCollins, film production companies 20th Century Fox, Fox Searchlight Pictures and Blue Sky Studios, and the National Rugby League.
etc.
March 11th, 2007 at 11:16 amFox is angry because the Democratic candidates refused to get in the proper position for Fox to shit on their heads.
So Fox should take their ball and go home and refuse to mention any of the Democratic candidates on their network. That’ll show em. LOL
March 11th, 2007 at 11:16 amin keeping with the stalinist meme, kondracke is a fine example of what stalin referred to as “useful idiots”.
March 11th, 2007 at 11:21 amWho cares what they have to say?
March 11th, 2007 at 11:22 amoops, it was Lenin, not stalin, who used the phrase. one of those
March 11th, 2007 at 11:24 am!
Posted by Faiz at 2:10 am
faiz – what are you doing there at 2am!?!
but, thank you…
March 11th, 2007 at 11:27 amJust more living proof that Right Wingers are just plain stupid or blind or both…. Faux News IS Emberrassingly RIGHT WING! Everyone knows this… it’s the mouthpiece of the Republican Party, has been since the day it was put on the air! DUH!
Whadda PUTZ!
-TP
March 11th, 2007 at 11:28 amStalin sounds more like the neocons, actually (except for the fact that they are coherent, these could very well be Bushisms):
“Everyone imposes his own system as far as his army can reach.”
“Death solves all problems – no man, no problem.”
“I trust no one, not even myself.”
“Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas.”
“If any foreign minister begins to defend to the death a “peace conference,” you can be sure his government has already placed its orders for new battleships and airplanes.”
“If the opposition disarms, well and good. If it refuses to disarm, we shall disarm it ourselves.”
“It is enough that the people know there was an election. The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything.”
“Print is the sharpest and the strongest weapon of our party.”
“The death of one man is a tragedy. The death of millions is a statistic.”
“The only real power comes out of a long rifle.”
—Joseph Stalin
March 11th, 2007 at 11:31 am“If Fox was embarrassingly right wing or something like that, it would be plain for all to see”
It is plain for all to see if they people watching take off their rose colored glasses and really look at what Faux Noise is.
March 11th, 2007 at 11:32 amFox is angry because the Democratic candidates refused to get in the proper position for Fox to shit on their heads.
Comment by shane
Oh my god Shane, you have such a gift for expression.
Please stay on TP forever.
Heh.
March 11th, 2007 at 11:37 amMona Charon, a right wing pundit., wrote a book called “Usefull Idiots” critical of Liberals. The implication…. the world is much too complicated for you to understand… so trust us ( Fox News or Lenin).Well… it’s not that complicated … Bush has been a miserable failure as President and America is in much worse shape with him in office.
March 11th, 2007 at 11:40 am“Stalinists”?
Coming from full-fledged NAZIS like Fox “news”, what do you EXPECT?
Dems were CORRECT to not play the game of the NAZIS.
Good job, DEMS!!!
P.S. FVKC TRAITOR Bush the Saudi OIL WHORE
March 11th, 2007 at 11:40 amBeltway Boys are stupid morons so who cares what they think or spew!
March 11th, 2007 at 11:42 am…position for Fox to shit on their heads.
Comment by shane
To make it worse,it would probably be loose.
March 11th, 2007 at 11:48 amThis is junior grade Stalinism on their part.
If withdrawing from a debate is intimidation, these people are bed-wetters who need to grow a spine.
Plus, it is obviously the half-literate crowd at FauxNews doesn’t know what they are talking about -they throw in Stalin’s name name to evoke the memory of a nefarious character, regardless of whether or not it is actually relevant to the topic at hand.
What is Stalinian is taking control over the means of communication to control the message. What is Stalinian is trying to brush out people and events out of history to shape the message (a la “we’ve never been ’stay the course’ “). What is Stalinian is to spread half-truths to give the message some credibility (a la “fighting them over there so we don’t fight them over here”)
FauxNews is the American Pravda.
March 11th, 2007 at 11:48 am[...] Upset Over Canceled Fox Debate, Kondracke Attacks ‘Left-Wing Liberals’ As ‘Junior-Grade Stalinists’ March 11, 2007 Posted by politicalbuzzstaff in Uncategorized. trackback Upset Over Canceled Fox Debate, Kondracke Attacks ‘Left-Wing Liberals’ As ‘Junior-Grade Stalin… [...]
March 11th, 2007 at 11:54 amIf Fox, you know, was embarrassingly right wing or something like that, it would be plain for all to see.
Thing is, it is plain for all to see. FauxNews is a prime advocate for US military action around the world, and US intervention in other countries’ internal affairs.
If there was a cheerleader for the invasion of Iraq who needed a camera and a microphone, FauxNews was there to interview them. They have been a very consistent mouth-piece for the Bush administration:
No, I don’t think so. We tried. We basically supported the Bush policy in the Middle East…but we have been very critical of his execution.
–Rupert Murdoch, when asked if News Corp. had managed to shape the agenda on the war in Iraq.
Their “Fair and Balanced” motto -really- can only dupe the gullible.
March 11th, 2007 at 11:55 amFox is angry because the Democratic candidates refused to get in the proper position for Fox to shit on their heads.
Comment by shane
I wonder if Shane, the one dimensional thinker, thinks hanging out under a pigeon nest is a smart thing to do. Pigeon are carriers. They are not very intelligent and crap on everything. To compare FOX with things that crap on things is probably a good comparison.
Say, Shane, or Shat…is it? do us a favor and go to the beach and hang out, in the proper position, so a flock of seagulls mighy defecate on you. Then answer this question. How intelligent is a seagull?
March 11th, 2007 at 12:02 pmAnyway that has to constantly remind people of how ‘fair and balanced’ they are is surely delusional.
It’s like a guy who wails, drunkenly, from atop a pigeon feces coated delapidated park bench, daily, and tells you how to find God and happiness.
March 11th, 2007 at 12:05 pm30. Perry Logan –
Perry, you’re a nut!! I’ve seen you on Public access TV here in Austin!! You’re frickin’ crazy!!
March 11th, 2007 at 12:06 pmIf these guys and their string-pullers got any dumber they’d need special “stupidity” permits.
A true “Stalinist” would simply take Roger Ailes out back and put a bullet in his head…hmmm.
March 11th, 2007 at 12:10 pmWOW! What a bunch of hate-filled comments. Supposably not permitted according to the terms of use agreement. I always thought that progressive meant you respected someone’s opinion even if you didn’t agree. You know, being progressive means being open minded and respectful.
What has been demonstrated is that the so-called progressives are so uncertain of their beliefs that they are too afraid to stand tall in the middle of their neocon enemies and defend, via debate, their positions on the important issues facing our country.
Certainly, if you feel your arguments are strong, then being willing to present them directly to those you disagree with is a smart and desirable strategy. Refusing the venue is a sign of weakness, not strength. So is all the name-calling.
March 11th, 2007 at 12:13 pmComment by Crazy Eddie — March 11, 2007 @ 12:02 pm
Comment by Crazy Eddie — March 11, 2007 @ 12:05 pm
Huh??? and Wha???.
March 11th, 2007 at 12:15 pmTroll Alert???
March 11th, 2007 at 12:18 pmWHA? and Huh?
Can you interpolate Troll Alert?
March 11th, 2007 at 12:19 pm[...] he is on FauxNews’ Beltway Boys via ThinkProgress, where you can watch the video: Defending his network, Kondracke claimed, “If Fox was [...]
March 11th, 2007 at 12:19 pmI hope the presidential debate will be handled more objectively through whoever ends up hosting it. Getting it out of the hands of FOX was a good start, but CNN isn’t much better. As soon as the corporate media gets a hint that they might lose their giant tax breaks or chance to see FCC rules change on media ownership limitations, I predict they will be just as biased against any Democrat candidate. In fact, if they treat the democrat fairly, be wary of that candidate.
March 11th, 2007 at 12:22 pmComment by Lewis — March 11, 2007 @ 12:13 pm
Lew.,we run the gamut here at T.P.,you get a bit of everything.
March 11th, 2007 at 12:22 pmAnd you know what Lew.,we like it that way.
If you don’t,Lew.,feel free to excuse yourself.
Standing tall in the middle of your enemies to debate is one thing. Standing tall to debate when your enemies are controlling the buttons and switches of their tv station is another matter.
March 11th, 2007 at 12:23 pmCan you interpolate Troll Alert?
Comment by Crazy Eddie
Sorry C.E.,but I was just having trouble interpolating your 2 posts,that’s all.
March 11th, 2007 at 12:27 pmRefusing the venue is a sign of weakness, not strength. So is all the name-calling.
Comment by Lewis — March 11, 2007 @ 12:13 pm
Choosing the venue is a smart move, specially if the proposed venue has consistently distorted your views, and smeared your defenders, and candidates. There is no guarantee things will be any different this time.
As for the rest of your post, what would you like to debate? Whether invading Iraq was a good idea? The conduct of the war? The shape Iraq is in right now? The ballooning deficit? North Korea’s nuclear program? South America’s growing independence from Washington? In brief, debate is no longer needed: Virtually every initiative by this Bush administration has turned into a disaster.
March 11th, 2007 at 12:29 pmSorry C.E.,but I was just having trouble interpolating your 2 posts,that’s all.
Comment by troll alert
I was comparing FOX Noise to a drunk on a park bench =)
Mwah.
March 11th, 2007 at 12:30 pmRefusing the venue is a sign of weakness, not strength. So is all the name-calling.
Comment by Lewis
Lewis arrived with his own agenda, as we can so plainly see. It’s not up to Democrats to legitimize Fox “News” by agreeing to a Fox controlled debate.
Lewis dearest, you made the same mistake so many others such as yourself make — pleading and wailing for no name calling, while name calling.
March 11th, 2007 at 12:32 pmSays the senior grade idiot.
March 11th, 2007 at 12:36 pmRefusing the venue is a sign of weakness, not strength. So is all the name-calling.
Comment by Lewis
FOX is not a reliable political venue. It only has an 11% trust rating. And of relies heavily on biased opinion and name calling. (not fact)
How can half of America, as Ann claims, be Godless when some 90% of Americans believe in a God (higher power) Yet the weak minded readers of such claptrap would agree with Anne as it suits their small world (sparkle box) view. They have this enexplicable inability to rationalize that very small fact. (above)
FOX talks about non-existent wars on Christmas and Easter. I hardly think FOX is a place for political venues.
March 11th, 2007 at 12:38 pmCertainly, if you feel your arguments are strong, then being willing to present them directly to those you disagree with is a smart and desirable strategy
See Lewis, it’s like having a corrupt referee during a professional sports event. Like havinf Pete Rose officiate a baseball game.
March 11th, 2007 at 12:40 pmYou know, like being a roulette dealer with a magnet in his hand.
I was comparing FOX Noise to a drunk on a park bench =)
Comment by Crazy Eddie
DOH! My bad;I get it now,thanks C.E..
March 11th, 2007 at 12:42 pmHey fox, you produce an inferior product, you can expect people to take their business elsewhere. It’s called the free market. And calling the dems big fat poopie heads isn’t going to change that.
March 11th, 2007 at 12:45 pmDOH! My bad;I get it now,thanks C.E..
Comment by troll alert
It’s okay, still on my second cup of coffee and not up to speed yet!! =)
I did make a typo or two as well, I stand corrected as well. TA.
Have a great sunday!
March 11th, 2007 at 12:48 pmFirst of all, I’m not a troll. I’m an independent thinker. I have battled and WON against the government. We won our battle by presenting and defending our position. We were respectful towards our opposition. We beat them by carefully presenting arguments supporting our position. We used the media and reached out to core voter values. In the end, we worked closely with the former opposition on a common solution.
I see none of that here. Just a bunch of junvenile name-calling. You’re not going to get far that way. So you all have a choice. Continue the junvenile attitude and turn-off independent thinkers, or start doing your homework and support your positions with well thought-out logic.
March 11th, 2007 at 12:54 pmThis whole thread is about Kondrake calling the liberal bloggers “Junior Grade Stalinists. No name calling there!! And how ’bout that Bush record. If I had to defend that, I’d probly be thinking up names too.
March 11th, 2007 at 1:03 pmI’m an independent thinker.
Comment by Lewis — March 11, 2007 @ 12:54 pm
An independent thinker that is unable to see FoxNews is a propaganda, smear machine and instead thinks it is a perfectly ok venue for a rational debate and intelligent discourse.
You either are not watching FoxNews, or actually find something of value in the “news” that network broadcasts.
Independent? Riiiiight….
March 11th, 2007 at 1:08 pmFirst of all, I’m not a troll. I’m an independent thinker. Comment by Lewis — March 11, 2007 @ 12:54 pm
Experience has shown that the only people who start off a post this way are lying…
The rest of your post validates it.
March 11th, 2007 at 1:08 pmLewis-
Imagine that you are a guest on a news program and as soon as you
March 11th, 2007 at 1:13 pmbegin to make a point the commentator interupts you. You attempt
again to respectfully make your point and the commentator this time
shouts over you and uses a bumper sticker slogan to drown out the point
you were making. You continue to try being respectful but now the commentator is portraying you as weak because he is making all the points. You begin to match his tactics by increasing the ferocity of your language and the commentator now portrays you as a screeching leftist.
Before you even have a chance to articulate any of your points, the commentator dismisses you and then spends 10 uninterupted minutes trashing you with his fellow “news” men. Would you trust this group to give you and your issue fair treatment if they offered to be the venue for the nation?
My example is precisely how FOX treats all liberals or progressives and it is why FOX was rejected. The only relevant weakness is in the nations ability to discern blatant propaganda on major news networks.
Lewis,
As you correctly point out, Fox is a biased enemy of the Democratic Party and an instrument of the Neocons. The Democratic Party has a primary campaign to accomplish. If and when it suits them, the Democratic Party can chose to do use Fox. However, they owe Fox nothing.
March 11th, 2007 at 1:14 pmWaah, waah, waah.
March 11th, 2007 at 1:17 pmBlah, blah, blah.
It’s about time somebody stood up to them said F–k you, Fox.
I stopped watching Fox “News” long ago. Life is too short to listen to lie after lie. It’s just like Rush Limbaugh; I listened to him a couple of times and that was enough. If you want the truth and are not easily brainwashed, listen to them and then figure out that whatever they say is the opposite of the truth. I prefer to get the truth directly from reliable sources.
March 11th, 2007 at 1:18 pmYou’re not going to get far that way.
Comment by Lewis
Lew,do some research,as a popular blog Think Progress is huge.
March 11th, 2007 at 1:23 pmNice try.
Rightwingers think that any news organization that is not pro Bush, pro Republican, pro whatever-is-their-agenda is “liberal.”
They stupidly refer to liberals as Stalinist — liberalism and totalitarianism are polar opposites. Like saying liberals are fascists or Nazis — it’s incongruous. To use the terms together is an oxymoron.
But they can only parrot what they are told from the boss. Feel sorry for them – they are ignorant and know not what they do.
March 11th, 2007 at 1:25 pmNo, on second thought, they don’t deserve pity; they are too hateful.
The right wing is shrewd ..very shrewd.
March 11th, 2007 at 1:29 pmAs part of the plan during the early years of the take over by the right the
media was considered liberal and was
interpreted as very bad for the people
In the meantime the right has taken over and they are still insisting the media is liberal. How can anyone left of center have a “fair and balanced” debate?
How can that be?
The “PLAN” is working for the right
with the likes of Karl, Dick, Newt, etc..
The next thing we will be confronted with is the audacity of Newt G. running for president. More than likely he will be on FOX. My, my, my, he will exemplify the christian talk and not the walk. Which is pretty much par for the course with the right knights of the conservative christian coalition…
what a country !!!
It is the smartest move by the Dems in a long time. They have to keep it up and perhaps even smite another network or two to get their attention. The hundreds of millions of dollars that candidates have is usually used for big Media advertising. It hits them in their pocketbooks and might make a few of them actually become “fair and balanced.”
March 11th, 2007 at 1:31 pmI see the cancelling of the debate and the comments here giving support to the idiotic comment made by the Beltway Boys. This place has a high level of ideology purity.
I think a great opportunity to get the democratic message out was mindlessly squandered. And you’ve just made it more difficult to reach those millions of Fox viewers and convince them that your positions are the right ones by insulting ALL of them.
You wrongly believe that all Fox viewers are Bush lovers, neocons, or just plain stupid. It seems to me that you reached this conclusion simply because you THINK they don’t agree with democrat positions on every single issue. I say these people are the most important ones you must reach out to and not alienate. You need more than a bare majority in order to effectively govern.
Unfortunately, this is very hard work. You can’t get respect unless you first give it. And it’s almost impossble to change hearts and minds if you don’t first win the respect of your opponents. Trash-talking won’t get you anywhere.
March 11th, 2007 at 1:33 pm#99,
March 11th, 2007 at 1:34 pmBeing progressive does not give you or your allies the right to shit on us without our crying foul and hitting back. Progressive does not mean we are weak and unable to fight back.
Just as your being republican does not mean you are automatically righteous.
oh bullsh*t, Lew.
March 11th, 2007 at 1:39 pmThe issue is not about defending yourself, the issue is how you choose to do it with respect to your ultimate goals. Like they say, it’s not about winning a battle, but about winning the “war”.
March 11th, 2007 at 1:41 pmNewt Gingrich would not be issuing a Mea Culpa if he didn’t think he had a good shot at the Republican nomination. Mccain is tied at the hip to Bush’s Iraq war policy . Giulliani is in trouble with the Christian Conservatives for serial adultery. If Romney doesn’t catch fire, look for Newt to enter the race and try to dissemble his way into the presidency. If that all fails…Fred Thompson is waiting in the wings with a Reagan II act.
March 11th, 2007 at 1:44 pmI think a great opportunity to get the democratic message out was mindlessly squandered. And you’ve just made it more difficult to reach those millions of Fox viewers and convince them that your positions are the right ones by insulting ALL of them.
It is perfectly clear that people who consider Fox “News” as a reliable source of information are never going to be “reached” by the Democrats from that podium. This is a fact that has been demonstrated repeatedly on Fox “News” for several years, and only the most unobservant would deny it.
And, you’re wrong, it is about “defending yourself” because Fox “News” is constantly attacking the Democrats and liberals. That is, essentially, the network’s entire reason for existing.
March 11th, 2007 at 1:50 pmThrow another slogan/cliche in there, Lewis.
Personally i’m freakin’ sick of giving the 30%ers/Fox news crowd more attention than they deserve.
…did you say ‘hearts and minds?’
March 11th, 2007 at 1:54 pmLewis, post #99, okay — I think I get it now. Progressives are supposed to be polite, goodhearted, nice, kind, etc., while the neocons run over them, bully them, and generally act like spoiled children who were never taught any manners.
I don’t blame the Dems for refusing to go on Fox. It shows they’ve got self-respect for one thing. Anyone who has a different view than Fox will be rudely interrupted in the middle of a sentence and not allowed to finish what they were saying. Why would anyone want to be treated with disrespect like that?
March 11th, 2007 at 1:57 pmTo Kondracke: ‘BETTER RED THAN DEAD’
March 11th, 2007 at 2:02 pm#2
Just like the Dems are for not participating.
March 11th, 2007 at 2:03 pm#28
But you watch that pus Olberman?
March 11th, 2007 at 2:05 pmThink Progress may be huge, but it’s the base of core believers. That’s quite obvious by the comments. As a political strategy, you’re in the bag already. What you need are those folks who aren’t in anybody’s bag, like for example, people like me.
I love being independent and thinking for myself. It’s refreshing being free to listen to and evaluate both the liberal and conservative points of view. I find neither side has all the best ideas.
I could never jump onto this bandwagon. You all seem think alike and when someone like me shows up, you pounce. Over time, you become 100% pure and loose critical thinking skills. Same problem exists on many right blogs.
March 11th, 2007 at 2:09 pm#107
“South America’s growing independence from Washington?”
The why all this week all we hear is how the U.S. is neglecting Latin America. Sound to me, according to you at least, the Chaves is their new hero. Well I say let them have him and see how long their economies last.
March 11th, 2007 at 2:17 pmI think a great opportunity to get the democratic message out was mindlessly squandered.
What would be the appropriate answer to a FOX question like “Why do you want to turn the country over to Al Qaeda”?
And you’ve just made it more difficult to reach those millions of Fox viewers and convince them that your positions are the right ones by insulting ALL of them.
Comment by Lewis — March 11, 2007 @ 1:33 pm
FOX has between one to two million viewers w/ O’Reilly having a little bit more than that. And their audience consists mostly of the “close to death” demographic.
March 11th, 2007 at 2:17 pm#117
So are you going to call out MSNBC for being a left wing mouth piece?
March 11th, 2007 at 2:21 pmComment by Tracy — March 11, 2007 @ 2:17 pm
And the expected trend is another 20 -30 cent increase by month’s end…
http://www.fuelgaugereport.com/
Regular
March 11th, 2007 at 2:23 pmCurrent Avg. $2.537
Yesterday Avg. $2.529
Month Ago Avg. $2.205
Year Ago Avg. $2.355
OK Lewis, I’ll play along with your appeal for middle ground.
Please make me a short list of ‘conservative’ ideas that you’d consider worthwhile. I’m not asking for specifics here, just fundamental ideas that originated on the ‘right’ end of the political spectrum. If I had to make such a list from th left it might include things like:
civil rights\
g.i. bill
NATO
women’s suffrage
fair wages and labor laws
social security
It’s not that conservatives aren’t capable of coming up with good or even great ideas, they are. It’s that the very foundation of conservatism is founded on the idea that we were not all created equally. A very un-American belief.
I’ll wait for your list.
March 11th, 2007 at 2:27 pmSound to me, according to you at least, the Chaves is their new hero.
Comment by Tracy — March 11, 2007 @ 2:17 pm
I don’t know how you go from “growing independence from Washington” to “Chaves is their new hero”. I didn’t even came remotely close to saying anything like that.
Well I say let them have him and see how long their economies last.
History will tell. In the meantime, and in spite of the rhetoric, fact remains Washington has been unable to isolate and contain Venezuela that continues to sign cooperation agreements with other countries in the region.
My comment stands and you have said nothing to refute it.
March 11th, 2007 at 2:27 pmBritta, it’s a debate, not a Fox news or opinion program. The only people who will be talking are the candidates. The opinion part will come after the debate. But that will happen on all the networks regardless of which network it’s held on.
My agrument is that the democratic party had an opportunity to to go into the enemy camp and strut their stuff. In my opinion, refusing to do that makes them look petty and childish. That perception, right or wrong, will not help them win elections.
March 11th, 2007 at 2:28 pmYou have a wonderful opinion of yourself, Lewis.
Thanks for all of the advice. I’ll watch a little Fox news just to keep things
fair and balanced in my own head. Save the “loose the critical
thinking” rhetoric for the sheep, and blow the “100% pure”
crap out your *ss. i can’t stand the patronizing tone in your posts.
What your trying to say is neither new, nor is your approach refreshing.
Most people get your point. I see the same amount of gratification and
success coming from pandering to the Fox news base, as i do in
punching myself repeatedly in the nuts every half an hour just
to make sure that I’m still alive.
Your immediate message is clear. You’re a swell guy.
March 11th, 2007 at 2:29 pmSo are you going to call out MSNBC for being a left wing mouth piece?
Comment by Tracy — March 11, 2007 @ 2:21 pm
MSNBC? The joint venture between Microsoft and NBC?
Microsoft, the largest software corporation, a left-wing mouthpiece?
NBC, the General Electric subsidiary? GE, one of the largest industrial conglomerates in the world, and a large military contractor, a left-wing mouthpiece?
Those corporations are sponsors of left-wing rhetoric? Surely you jest…
March 11th, 2007 at 2:33 pmLewis, Fox just generally has a bad reputation for being the right-wing propaganda mouthpiece. They are unable to be neutral, and therefore aren’t in the professional league. They’d have found some way to make the Dems look bad after the debate. I just think it would have been a waste of time.
March 11th, 2007 at 2:34 pmwhere is my post
March 11th, 2007 at 2:38 pmFox is a legitimate news network that has many millions of viewers (more than CNN) that have opinions and who vote. Just because you don’t like how or what they report does not make them illegitimate.
The democratic party has foolishly written-off millions of potential voters. They’ve just made winning more difficult for themselves and for what reason – because of a bunch of intolerant and ideologically pure base voters hate Fox? Are you really not going to vote democratic because the party had a debate on Fox? You had everything to gain and absolutely nothing to lose. To me this was a no-brainer.
March 11th, 2007 at 2:39 pmFox is a legitimate news network that has many millions of viewers (more than CNN) that have opinions and who vote. Just because you don’t like how or what they report does not make them illegitimate.
FOX is not a legitimate purveyor of news; they’re an extension of the Bush administration.
The democratic party has foolishly written-off millions of potential voters.
Comment by Lewis — March 11, 2007 @ 2:39 pm
They don’t need the one to two million viewers who watch FOX News.
March 11th, 2007 at 2:50 pmSurely you jest…
Comment by Gregor Samsa — March 11, 2007 @ 2:33 pm
Jest? You’re too kind to our resident coward. In his case, the word ‘lie’ seems more likely…
March 11th, 2007 at 2:52 pmFox is a legitimate news network that has many millions of viewers (more than CNN)
Comment by Lewis — March 11, 2007 @ 2:39 pm
See… I knew you weren’t an independent thinker, and that you are a troll… How’d I know? Logic Lewie… Sheer logic.
March 11th, 2007 at 2:55 pm‘Fox is a legitimate news network’ – Lewis.
That’s the point here Lewis. It’s not. In fact, there’s nothing on tv these days that could honestly be called legitimate news with the possible exception of Stewart and Colbert. Pretty fuc*ed up, huh?
March 11th, 2007 at 2:57 pmIn his case, the word ‘lie’ seems more likely…
Comment by unbelievable — March 11, 2007 @ 2:52 pm
I am very interested to know how GE is a sponsor of a left-wing mouthpiece.
I got a belly laugh at IRI’s answer to that question…
March 11th, 2007 at 2:59 pmFox is a legitimate news network…….comment by Lewis.
LMFAO!!!!! Fox news is the direct heir to Goebbel’s Ministry of Propaganda. Get some smarts Lew.
March 11th, 2007 at 3:01 pmIt’s been fun and interesting folks. Not wanting to upset your apple cart or foul the water here any further. Now you can brag to one another of how you kicked that damn troll off your site. Enjoy!
March 11th, 2007 at 3:02 pmSo are you going to call out MSNBC for being a left wing mouth piece?
Comment by Tracy — March 11, 2007 @ 2:21 pm
I wish MSNBC was a left-wing mouthpiece. I’d finally have a news channel to watch.
March 11th, 2007 at 3:03 pmMSNBC a left-wing mouthpiece? Hmmm, part of NBC, which airs the “Today Show”, who often has Trannie Coulter on. Yeah, that’s really left-wing alright. And Ronald Reagan was a closet Communist too.
March 11th, 2007 at 3:11 pmI am very interested to know how GE is a sponsor of a left-wing mouthpiece.
I’ll bet you don’t get a response… Not a valid one anyway. Because he doesn’t have an answer. He’s either regurgitating something he heard some neocon talking head say, or he made it up not realizing that he’d get called on it considering the information is very easy to access.
I got a belly laugh at IRI’s answer to that question…
Comment by Gregor Samsa — March 11, 2007 @ 2:59 pm
I don’t recall – what was it?
March 11th, 2007 at 3:12 pmI watched Kondracke and Barnes snicker and giggle and ridicule their way through the 2004 Democratic convention as if they were characters from South Park. I can imagine how they would “discuss” a Democratic debate.
Democrats are starting to wise up to the fact that Fox News is a Republican PR machine. The less the Dem party has to do with them, the faster Fox will feel compelled to make an actual attempt to be objective in its news coverage.
March 11th, 2007 at 3:13 pmLewis,
I assumed you were being honest in your appeal for centrism. Guess not. How can you have an honest debate if your being phony? I ask for substantive reasons, a simple list of worthwhile conservative ideas and you can’t give me one?
March 11th, 2007 at 3:13 pmNow you can brag to one another of how you kicked that damn troll off your site.
Comment by Lewis — March 11, 2007 @ 3:02 pm
You mean until you return as “Harold” or “Timothy” or some other new moniker…
Actually, you painted yourself into a corner… We barely had to break a sweat. Silly troll…
March 11th, 2007 at 3:15 pmCaptain Video, you’re absolutely right re: Olbermann, his ’special comments’ were brilliant and riveting. It won him a lot of new viewers. The truth is like that :)
March 11th, 2007 at 3:16 pmThink Progress may be huge, but it’s the base of core believers. That’s quite obvious by the comments. As a political strategy, you’re in the bag already. What you need are those folks who aren’t in anybody’s bag, like for example, people like me.
I love being independent and thinking for myself. It’s refreshing being free to listen to and evaluate both the liberal and conservative points of view. I find neither side has all the best ideas.
I could never jump onto this bandwagon. You all seem think alike and when someone like me shows up, you pounce. Over time, you become 100% pure and loose critical thinking skills. Same problem exists on many right blogs.
Comment by Lewis — March 11, 2007 @ 2:09 pm
Don’t let any of that self-righteousness bite you on the ass, pal.
You may want to spend a little more time here and perhaps take a week or two to look back at previous threads and the posts by various contributors before you drop in and give us your holier-than-thou attitude. You’ll find there are quite a few critical thinkers on here, but like Bush, you’ll probably dismiss them simply because you don’t agree with them.
Of course we all seem to think alike. But there is no “seem” to it. We DO think alike. At least most of us. The issue appears to be that you don’t agree with us, and thus label us as somehow being wrong or coming up short. Your problem, pal, not ours.
And yes, there are people who contribute here that aren’t “in the bag.” Sure, they are in the minority, and we give them a tough time sometimes, but they occasionally have something of value to contribute.
And since you don’t seem to find anything you like around here, I guess your stay will be short-lived. So sad. Too bad. Bye now.
March 11th, 2007 at 3:19 pmUnbelievable,
his response was something along the lines of “the extremely wealthy are all a bunch of liberals”.
I was stunned for a few seconds, and then couldn’t stop laughing at the sheer preposterousness of that reply. What I never knew -and never asked- was if IRI was either under the influence or simply being an ass.
March 11th, 2007 at 3:21 pmAnd Lewis, darling, I don’t see Al, Katie, or Matt trashing an actor on the air when they make political comments in public (”What does he know? He’s just an actor!“), the way that the morons on Fox and Friends did one morning to Tim Robbins. (And then inviting a singer on the show a week later and asking him, as one of the first questions, “So, what do you think about this war?”)
March 11th, 2007 at 3:25 pmFox is a legitimate news network that has many millions of viewers (more than CNN)
Comment by Lewis — March 11, 2007 @ 2:39 pm
So Fox is a legitimate news network. One question that’s been nagging me and perhaps you can answer:
So where on Foxnews.com are those “good news” stories we keep hearing about? I hear there are thousands of them.
Would you like to be the first person on here to dive into their web site’s archives and give us links to, oh, 20 of those stories?
March 11th, 2007 at 3:29 pmWeren’t ‘fiscal responsibility’, ‘avoiding foreign entanglements’ and a fierce belief in the ‘right to privacy’ ideals that conservatives of recent times championed?
What do we have with the current GOP leadership?
Fiscal responsibility: Dramatic, unprecedented debt and deficit. China, a ‘Communist’ country, more or else pulls the purse strings in the wake of the Bushies.
Avoiding foreign entanglements: Nothing need be said here.
Right to privacy: Illegal wiretapping, data mining.
Hmmm, not your father’s GOP I’d say.
March 11th, 2007 at 3:30 pmThe democratic party has foolishly written-off millions of potential voters. They’ve just made winning more difficult for themselves and for what reason – because of a bunch of intolerant and ideologically pure base voters hate Fox?
Comment by Lewis — March 11, 2007 @ 2:39 pm
Oh you are the funny one today.
The Dems had no problem winning majorities in Congress back in November. And look! They did it without any help from Fox News!
March 11th, 2007 at 3:31 pmLooks like TP’s clock wasn’t adjusted for DST.
March 11th, 2007 at 3:35 pmLewis, if you were truly an independent thinker, you’d realize that a “legitimate news source” wouldn’t have contributors label members of the Left as ‘Junior-Grade Stalinists.’ If they want to debate why the Dems turned down Fox News, that’s one thing. But in your rantings here today you conveniently left out Kondracke when you started mouthing off about name callers.
March 11th, 2007 at 3:40 pmWHICH WOULD MAKE Kondracke and Barnes SENIOR-GRADE STALINISTS and GOOSE-STEPPING FASCIST-NAZI SUPPORTERS of Bushland Uber Allies as well as repugnant-repub rightwingnut crank fudge-pachyderms FIRST CLASS, Nicht Wahr? YA! YA!
March 11th, 2007 at 3:40 pmhis response was something along the lines of “the extremely wealthy are all a bunch of liberalsâ€.
Oh yeah… I could never get him to clarify what he meant, but it tied intohis definition of ‘neocon’ as a Jewish person (just as ridicuous). I sorta felt sorry for him because he was so paranoid and brainwashed… Too much so to do anything more than come here and play keyboard commando.
I was stunned for a few seconds, and then couldn’t stop laughing at the sheer preposterousness of that reply. What I never knew -and never asked- was if IRI was either under the influence or simply being an ass.
Comment by Gregor Samsa — March 11, 2007 @ 3:21 pm
I think he meant it. His paranoia often got in the way of thinking things through… :)
March 11th, 2007 at 3:41 pmI think what you folks don’t like about Fox is that they present both sides.
March 11th, 2007 at 3:41 pmWonder what OS their servers run on?
March 11th, 2007 at 3:42 pmI think what you folks don’t like about Fox is that they present both sides.
Comment by muckdog — March 11, 2007 @ 3:41 pm
Prove it or contuine to be considered a reicht-wing shill.
March 11th, 2007 at 3:45 pmBoth sides of what? Both sides of dishonesty still = lies. Come on people, how flippin foolish do you have to be? If you can’t identify the difference between fact and fiction you really need to change the channel, or read a book.
March 11th, 2007 at 3:49 pmIf the dems are smart, they’ll boycott Fox completely – no interviews, no Press Releases, no debates, “NO COMMENT”.
Let the zombies eat their own flesh.
March 11th, 2007 at 3:56 pmOkay…
March 11th, 2007 at 4:04 pmTo make a statement like “if Fox were embarrassingly right wing or something, it would be plain to see..”..to make that statemnet…is PSYCHOTIC..A SEPERATION FROM REALITY..
Again i say..this kind of “thinking” on the part of the Corporate Fascist theocracy is due to their CHOICE to be….STUPID…IT’S NOT THAT THERE IS ANYTHING PHYSICALLY WRONG WITH THEIR BRAINS..(SOME MAY DEBATE THAT) BUT RATHER THAT THEY HAVE CHOSEN TO BE STUPID, BECAUSE BEING STUPID HAS IT’S OWN KIND OF POWER. IT’S EASY TO WIN A GREAT MANY SMALL CONTESTS OF WILL, IF YOU SIMPLY IGNORE ALL THE EVIDENCE.
Simple as that…the Right Wing..the ChristoFascists, simply CHOOSE to ignore ANYTHING that they don’t like..Smart people who base their arguements on FACTS..simply give up in frustration…this is the technique….either that or…AGAIN..they are simply Psychotic..in fact..it is now obvious to me..that it’s……….BOTH.
Start storing food and Water now…
“Fox is a legitimate news network that has many millions of viewers ”
Have you ever watched FOX??! It’s the Jerry Springer of the news industry. They even have GERALDO has one of their top ‘reporters’!
March 11th, 2007 at 4:24 pm“You can’t get respect unless you first give it.” Lewis
right Lewis, and until Faux starts respecting other viewpoints, other political parties, and reality, why should the dems or anyone else respect them? Don’t whine here about the lack of respect in today’s political discourse, go the the source, YOUR party. Kerry took the high road with the swiftboaters and look where it got him. Since the conservatives love to characterize the libs as heathens and themselves as good christians, why don’t they turn the other cheek?
And quit conflating random posters with the website here. ThinkProgress is very factual and as polite as possible. the larger community, not so much, but so what?
March 11th, 2007 at 5:06 pmJebus, I can’t believe the Dems agreed to let FAUX “shit on their heads” in the first place!! Yikes. I’m glad they recovered their senses. FAUX is the Propaganda Ministry for the Bush administration.
March 11th, 2007 at 5:07 pmAnyone who is rejected by other networks, convicted of felonies, run out of office, fired because of a scandal, or is just a screwed-morally bankrupt idiot will find their way to the FOX airways.
March 11th, 2007 at 5:08 pmI remember when Bush blew off an NAACP meeting that Presidents usually attended, O’Reilly and company responded “Why should he go somewhere he isn’t wanted?” Well, why should the DNC cooperate with a propaganda outlet that lies and smears them with personal attacks everyday? The Beltway Boys is a perfect example of a Fox show. The right debates the farther right.
March 11th, 2007 at 5:25 pmKondracke claimed: “If Fox was embarrassingly right wing or something like that, it would be plain for all to see.â€
With that quote I give you this quote:
“Nothing in the world is more dangerous
March 11th, 2007 at 6:00 pmthan sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.”
- Martin Luther King, Jr. –
#164
You must be as far to the left as Chaves is. Do you you watch that coward Olberman?
March 11th, 2007 at 6:15 pm#149
You don’t watch MSNBC or you could say something that naive.
March 11th, 2007 at 6:17 pmComment by Crazy Eddie — March 11, 2007 @ 12:02 pm
As I asked in a different thread, what the hell are you smoking? Must be some good shit but I think it kills brain cells. Oh I know you’re just too deep and I don’t understand. Please explain.
March 11th, 2007 at 6:17 pmIt appears our Lewis is the apple of his own eye.
**eyes rolling**
March 11th, 2007 at 6:19 pmWhere did Lew. go?
March 11th, 2007 at 6:19 pm#143
Again I thought you said this little game was over. Now you want to play when the situation favors you. Pretty cowardly.
March 11th, 2007 at 6:20 pmUpset Over Canceled Fox Debate, Kondracke Attacks ‘Left-Wing Liberals’ As ‘Junior-Grade Stalinists’
This coming from a bunch of junior-grade Nazis…
March 11th, 2007 at 6:40 pm127. You wrongly believe that all Fox viewers are Bush lovers, neocons, or just plain stupid. It seems to me that you reached this conclusion simply because you THINK they don’t agree with democrat positions on every single issue
Comment by Lewis — March 11, 2007 @ 1:33 pm
Lewis you’re quite the master of understatement. We think they don’t agree with some Democrat positions. You’re joking right. Or do you not know what Democratic positions are.
Nonetheless, Republicans are very careful to not alienate their base in order to get votes. WE ARE the base of the Democratic Party and they do not want to alienate us. And since we are not blindly loyal the way neocons are sometimes our party pays attention to us.
I will not watch FOX News and won’t watch a debate on it and stated that position to the candidates I support. I am not alone and our party heard our plea. Contrary to what you might hear on Fox we are patriotic Americans. And even though we fear this administration might do just about anything we speak up.
The days of progressives being bullied by name calling are apparently over. When we meet someone that only watches Fox News we can tell that just by talking to them. WE know who they are and we no they are never going to vote for our candidates. I watch EVERY other news network and flip through them to see the difference in the spin. If a voter will not change a channel away from Fox to watch the debates then Democrats would be wasting time and energy trying to appeal to them.
Many of us feel that this country and its Democracy are in a perilous state and need strong defenders not from terrorists but from ourselves. And we see Fox News as being complicit in the destruction of our rights and security hence we are not going to take political tactic instructions from Fox or its viewers.
March 11th, 2007 at 6:41 pm155. They don’t need the one to two million viewers who watch FOX News.
Comment by Nat — March 11, 2007 @ 2:50 pm
And the Republicans can steal more votes than that anyway. Tee Hee
March 11th, 2007 at 6:48 pmAgain I thought you said this little game was over.
It’s over when you concede that there is a possibility that Big Oil played with gas prices to help the Republicans in November. I’ve even posted proof that prices dipped just prior, and are now higher.
Now you want to play when the situation favors you. Pretty cowardly.
Comment by Tracy — March 11, 2007 @ 6:20 pm
I never said “game over” Tracy. What’s cowardly is 1. Pretending that I did, and 2. Refusing to prove to Gregor how MSNMC is liberal…
I just want to see you act like a man and admit that the price dip could have been more than a coincidence…
Chicken shit…
March 11th, 2007 at 6:54 pmYou don’t watch MSNBC or you could say something that naive.
Comment by Tracy — March 11, 2007 @ 6:17 pm
I see, in your opinion General Electric is a left-leaning conglomerate. So is Microsoft.
And the reason why these two behemoths ventured into the media business was to further a leftist agenda, not their own self-serving corporate interests.
This, because Bill Gates, Steve Balmer, Jack Welch, Jeff Immelt (four of the richest men in the US), as well as their respective boards of directors are part of a vast left-wing conspiracy. Riiiight….
You don’t sound naive, Tracy. You sound deluded.
March 11th, 2007 at 9:55 pmDon’t forget that Mort Kondracke is supposed to be the “leftie” of the Beltway Boys.
March 11th, 2007 at 11:02 pmAs a moderate registered Independent I must respectfully disagree with Lewis.
The Democrats decision not to participate in debates controlled by Fox makes perfect sense when you consider the big picture. Fox clearly has embraced the far right to the extent that there is simply no reasonable person who can think of them as unbiased or even slightly biased.
By refusing to participate in these debates the Democrats have sent a message that they will not empower or legitimize a channel that desperately wants to be viewed as ‘legitimate’. The recent elections and world events have changed the fortune of the GOP (to their detriment) and empowered the Democrats.
I view this as a no lose situation the Democrats. The only individuals who will be “shocked” and “dismayed” will be those on the far right who wished the Democrats to contribute to Fox’s standing. They were lost to any Democrats’ message in any event. Fox loses standing, they are put on the defensive, and the Democrats conduct a debate where they aren’t being set up for a negative before they start.
March 11th, 2007 at 11:45 pm“I think what you folks don’t like about Fox is that they present both sides.â€
For example, when Hannity asserts that the world is flat, Combs argues that there may actually be some evidence that the world may actually be round.
Comment by CaptainVideo — March 11, 2007 @ 9:12 pm
I must say,that’s a good one.
March 12th, 2007 at 2:51 am(actual email)
Mort,
Madrassa, madrassa, madrassa. Who has resined or been fired? You condemned CBS like it was going out of style after Rather’s AWOL piece. TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR character assissination attempts on Barrack Obama. How could you possibly complain about Moveon.org or other blogs when the responsibility lies soley in your hands? Diverting attention and trying to blame and attack more people makes you appear so utterly adolescent. Of course so does everything else that comes out of your mouth as you, in the words of Tucker Carlson, act as Fred Barnes butt boy every night, enabling and fascilitating his absurdly fanciful representation of reality. I know very well that you have heard this over and over, but your lack of spine and dignity is truly one of the ugliest things I have ever seen on a person. Either you have something to offer or you don’t, but parroting everything except the occasional token ‘incomplete agreement’ with good ol’ Freddy boy is, well, it just leaves me nauseous. And, yes, of course, I don’t watch you anymore.
Joey, suburbs of Los Angeles
March 12th, 2007 at 4:09 am[...] Upset Over Canceled Fox Debate, Kondracke Attacks ‘Left-Wing Liberals’ As ‘Junior-Grade Stalin… [...]
March 12th, 2007 at 4:50 amFOX is actually Stalinistic.
Why would anyone want to go on FOX merely to be assassinated.
I am sure FOX doesn’t see it that way. Just like Scooter didn’t break the law for lying, perjury, obstuction. Its legal for a Republican yet for any others, well lock them up.
March 12th, 2007 at 4:52 amI know, the law is only for the unwealthy. Your not an American deep down are you, Guys?
Now is the time for the DNC to annouce that Faux Snooze will not be provided a press box at the upcoming Democratic National Convention in Denver next year. That will truly validate Edward’s assertion.
March 12th, 2007 at 12:00 pmIf the presumption that reporting the whole truth is left wing propoganda, then by your reasoning, I guess MSNBC is just a mouth piece for hte left.
I’m good with the truth.
March 12th, 2007 at 12:25 pm[...] Video/transcript (Think Progress, via ITT List) [...]
March 12th, 2007 at 1:53 pmMr. Konkracke’s name slinging at Liberals is exactly why Progressive Democrats are boycotting his television “Faux” News show debates. Who needs the abuse? If this sly little Fox really wants the American people to think his television station is “fair and balanced”, maybe he should stop calling everyone to the left of center names and belittling their integrity! Hopefully, this is just the beginning step in getting this extreme, right-wing propaganda machine off the airways!
March 12th, 2007 at 3:05 pmSince Keith Olberman came out and blasted this administration for its lies and deceit that took us into this illegal war in Iraq, and he actually had the balls to tell the truth, he will be my news man from now on! MSNBC also has the very right-wing Tucker Carlson doing his interviews, in which he is always arrogantly looking down on “lefty views”. So I’de say they at least MSNBC presents both sides of the picture! Hope more people start watching MSNBC, mainly because Bill O’Reilly hates Olberman so much. I think he’s jealous because he sees the writing on the wall!!!! I know that I will not support the sponsers of Faux News anymore!
March 12th, 2007 at 3:34 pmFOX should not be dignified by inclusion in serious debates. It is a propaganda channel for the Republican Corporatocracy. Its mission is to mouth lies.
March 12th, 2007 at 4:38 pm[...] the full clip here at Think Progress. Hat tip to John Aravosis at Americablog.com for pointing out this little [...]
March 12th, 2007 at 6:46 pm#212
The presumption that the left is reporting the whole truth is an incorrect presumption.
March 12th, 2007 at 6:52 pm[...] Upset Over Canceled Fox Debate, Kondracke Attacks Left-Wing Liberals As Junior-Grade Stalinists [...]
March 13th, 2007 at 9:40 am#203
“It’s over when you concede that there is a possibility that Big Oil played with gas prices to help the Republicans in November.”
You don’t set the rules coward.
“2. Refusing to prove to Gregor how MSNMC is liberal…”
Olberman and Matthews are just two prime examples.
“I just want to see you act like a man and admit that the price dip could have been more than a coincidence…”
I want you to act like an adult and admit it’s nothing more than a conspiricy theory….coward.
March 15th, 2007 at 12:16 am#205
“I see, in your opinion General Electric is a left-leaning conglomerate. So is Microsoft.”
No you don’t see. I watch MSMBC and with Matthews and Olberman only a fool wouldn’t see their left leaning bias.
“And the reason why these two behemoths ventured into the media business was to further a leftist agenda, not their own self-serving corporate interests.”
Well if you want to think that corporation aren’t savy enough to see a market for the leftist views then you don’t understand anything about business. The see dollar signs not ideology.
“You don’t sound naive, Tracy. You sound deluded.”
You sound naive and are pretty much business knowledge handicapped.
March 15th, 2007 at 12:23 am[...] One requirement might be that they not throw temper tantrum when they get a very small comupence – Upset Over Canceled Fox Debate, Kondracke Attacks ‘Left-Wing Liberals’ As ‘Junior-…, Working for the modern day Pravda of broadcasting maybe old Mort would know. Atrios on Fox – Good [...]
March 15th, 2007 at 1:38 amThis reactionary posture of Fox News clearly demonstrates that they should more accurately be called neo-fascists.
April 11th, 2007 at 9:14 pm