Kristol Claims A Libby Pardon Would Remove The ‘Cloud Over The White House And The War’
Kristol Claims A Libby Pardon Would Remove The ‘Cloud Over The White House And The War’
In this week’s Weekly Standard, editor Bill Kristol writes that Bush must pardon Libby immediately. “If the president does intend to pardon Libby, there is no reason to wait,” he writes.
Asked to comment further on his editorial, Kristol claimed this morning that pardoning Libby would remove the “cloud hanging over his White House and over the war.” He added that if Bush waits, “Fitzgerald will keep repeating that there’s a cloud over the White House, and Bush will be passive, and it will demoralize his supporters.” Watch it:
The reason a cloud exists over the White House is because it has failed to confront questions about the involvement of Bush, Cheney, Rove, and other key figures. As Juan Williams noted, if Bush were to pardon Libby, he would only exacerbate the cloud that exists.
“It would be more than a cloud,” Williams said. “It would be a veil at that point, because people would say there is no accountability in this administration for their actions and they excuse their friends.”
Transcript:
WALLACE: The special prosecutor said in his closing statement that there’s a cloud over the vice presidency, a cloud over the White House. If this appeal drags on with motions, and Fitzgerald responding to motions, and we have a year of back and forth, every time something like that is in the press, that will be there, and it’s unresponded to.
The president has taken the position that well, he can’t deal with this. There’s a trial going on. So someone has been convicted, I think unfortunately and unfairly, but nonetheless. Fitzgerald will keep repeating that there’s a cloud over the White House, and Bush will be passive, and it will demoralize his supporters.
He needs to pardon Libby now. I think that would actually reinvigorate his supporters and show that he’s willing to fight to defend his people and defend the war that he led us into.
[…]
I mean, it’s going to be hanging out there. Not to pardon him and to go into a defensive crouch, which is where the White House is now, is to leave that cloud hanging over his White House and over the war.
And even if things get better in Iraq, as I suspect they are thanks to the surge, there will be a sense of illegitimacy in the president’s effort to make the case for the war at the beginning and to respond to critics of the war like Joe Wilson, which his White House did entirely legitimately.
WILLIAMS: But don’t you think — I mean, look. The cloud exists. And if he were to pardon, he would exacerbate all those tensions. In fact, I think he would — it would be more than a cloud.
It would be a veil at that point, because people would say there is no accountability in this administration for their actions and they excuse their friends.
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143 Responses to “Kristol Claims A Libby Pardon Would Remove The ‘Cloud Over The White House And The War’”
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NO pardon for Libby and an indictment for Kristol with a prison term too!
March 11th, 2007 at 11:35 amHow typically unoriginal… That’s what Ford said when he pardoned Nixon.
March 11th, 2007 at 11:36 amIn essence Kristol is saying the cloud willl blow over if the administration employs The Big Lie aggressively enough.
March 11th, 2007 at 11:39 amthat deathmasque is sooooooo tired.
March 11th, 2007 at 11:44 amI used to think that GDumbya was the uncontested “court jester” of his own administration; however, it looks like little Billy Kristol is bucking for the job.
This whole thing would be hilariously funny if it weren’t so damned pathetic. Is there no end to the ignorance, arrogance and incompetence of GDumbya and his Keystone Kops?
I think not.
March 11th, 2007 at 11:45 amKristol helped Libby and Rove to leak information on Valerie Plame-Wilson to the press, so Billy Boy must be charged with criminal actions as well. He should get about 10 years in slammer and NOT at Camp Cupcake prison.
March 11th, 2007 at 11:46 amKristol is always wrong. I have never seen him make any prediction that was right, nor I have ever seen him explain current or past events in a non-bizarro way. He is pathologically wrong.
March 11th, 2007 at 11:47 amThe jury in the CIA leak trial of Scooter Libby has spoken. Now it’s your turn:
March 11th, 2007 at 11:48 amEnter the “Sentence Scooter Contest.”
“The truth is still the truth, and a lie is still a lie, and the rule of law should apply to everyone, no matter what excuses are made by the president’s defenders. The news media characterizes the managers as 13 angry men. They are right that we are angry, but they are dead wrong about what we are angry about. We have not spent long hours poring through the evidence, sacrificed time with our families, and subjected ourselves to intense political criticism to further a political vendetta. We have done so because of our love for this country and respect for the office of the presidency, regardless of who may hold it. We have done so because of our devotion to the rule of law and our fear that if the president does not suffer the legal consequences of his actions, the impact of allowing the president to stand above the law will be felt for generations to come.†–Rep. James Sensenbrenner (R-WI).
What comes around goes around.
It may be undemocratic, but it is a fact of history. A leader that uses the military to heighten his political power must… MUST quickly deliver decisive wins to use to over shadow the voices of the dissenters. Bush did not crush Iraq and so his “Mission Accomplished” rings hallow… those leaders that engage in war for non defensive reasons and deliver loss after loss after loss often pay dearly. Bush, Inc. has shamed the republicans, declared political opponents equivalent to foreign enemies, and squeezed/punished moderate republicans and democrats alike. Payback is their just deserts.
The republicans need to clean up their own house.
March 11th, 2007 at 11:48 am“another Pleasant Valley Sunday,
charcoal burning everywhere…”
(the Monkee’s)
March 11th, 2007 at 11:49 am“to respond to critics of the war like Joe Wilson, which his White House did entirely legitimately.”
cough cough bull$hit cough
The sad truth of the matter is that there are literally millions of America (somewhat less than a third of the population) who believe him; that outing Plame was done legitimately, that outing the CIA covert operation Brewster Jennings was done legitimately and that Bush and Cheney can do whatever they want, Constitution, Congress, Supreme Court and the will of the people be damned.
March 11th, 2007 at 11:50 amKristol is right, no need to respect the DOJ guidelines which requires five years to pass post DETENTION and remorse and ownership of guilt. Just make it up as you go, rules do not matter. Ethics do not matter. Integrity does not matter.
–Carl Christian Rove
Anyone else see a common neocon theme here? Ends justify any means.
March 11th, 2007 at 11:51 amThe water just keeps getting heavier.
March 11th, 2007 at 11:52 amComment by Gerald Gibson Jr — March 11, 2007 @ 11:48 am
Alas, Sensenbrenner’s words were Clinton specific and not intended to be applied to Republican Presidents.
March 11th, 2007 at 11:53 amIt makes no difference to Kristol whether ‘justice is served’ or not..whether there is ‘accountability’ of officials committing crimes or not….
All what Kristol thinks about is have to save a Neocons who got caught. That is why FOX ‘fair and balanced’ is nothing but a big lie.
March 11th, 2007 at 11:54 amClinton pardoned his own brother. There’s many clouds over his head.
March 11th, 2007 at 11:54 amRemember when Republicans were for law enforcement? Small Government? Fiscal responsibility? Ethics?
My Lord how they have fallen.
March 11th, 2007 at 11:54 amClinton pardoned his own brother. There’s many clouds over his head.
Comment by firehead
Not the issue, fireant.
If Clinton has clouds, they are wispy little clouds.
Chimpy has monstrous thunderheads containing a Class 5 tornado.
March 11th, 2007 at 11:59 amI have been surprised the MSM does not connect the dots on this whole self inflicted wound of the Failed Administration. Had Cheney not been such a delusional paranoid fascist the nod he got from Bush to independently out Plames Secret status without proper procedure but done on the fly and half-assed then the CIA would have been in the loop and never asked for an independent investigation.
This whole clusterfuck is brought on by Cheney’s own stupidity.
March 11th, 2007 at 12:01 pmAt least he admits there’s a “cloud hanging over the White House.” That’s a start, Billy.
March 11th, 2007 at 12:05 pmRoger Clinton, the former president’s younger half-brother, was pardoned for a 1985 cocaine-related offence. Roger Clinton pleaded guilty to the charge and served more than a year in prison. The presidential pardon erases his criminal record - but he was arrested and charged with drink driving in California a month after the pardon. He also faces a charge of disturbing the peace for allegedly challenging a nightclub doorman to a fight.
Hugh Rodham, Hillary Clinton’s younger brother and a Miami lawyer, accepted nearly $400,000 from Braswell and the Vignali family to act on their behalf. When news of the payments became public, he returned the money at the Clintons’ insistence. Bill Clinton denied knowing Mr Rodham had taken money for the clemency work, but not having discussed the cases with him. Senator Clinton denied any involvement in the pardons whatsoever.
A Corrupt system eh
March 11th, 2007 at 12:05 pmImage always trumps ethics to Idealogues.
Firehead, personally, when did your last moral fiber die and when did you stop defending the fuhrer? Katrina? Nov elections? Rumsfield pushed over board? Walter Reed?
March 11th, 2007 at 12:06 pmChomsky: US Foreign Policy Driven by Oil
, “the primary issue in the Middle East has been, and remains, effective control of its unparalleled energy resources. Access is a secondary matter. Once the oil is on the seas it goes anywhere. Control is understood to be an instrument of global dominanceâ€.
“Iranian influence in the ‘crescent’ challenges US control. By an accident of geography, the world’s major oil resources are in largely Shia areas of the Middle East: southern Iraq, adjacent regions of Saudi Arabia and Iran, with some of the major reserves of natural gas as well. Washington’s worst nightmare would be a loose Shia alliance controlling most of the world’s oil and independent of the USâ€.
March 11th, 2007 at 12:09 pmAs usual the cloud comes straight out of Kristols ass.
March 11th, 2007 at 12:10 pmBush’s only hope is that Libby can “hang on” until after the 2008 elections for his pardon–after the GOP is swept out of office. Bush knows (and Rove can back this up) that a pardon now will make already tenuous GOP election wins impossible. We are witness to the end of the Republican Party happening in real time and the “conservatives” have themselves to blame for cheerleading the neocon rise to power on their backs.
March 11th, 2007 at 12:15 pmAs usual the cloud comes straight out of Kristols ass.
Comment by mparker
Good thing he can buy carbon offsets for that in Australia for $16. :-D
March 11th, 2007 at 12:16 pmYou know, there’s a cloud over the Manson Family too.
March 11th, 2007 at 12:17 pmA bunch of pardons issued would take care of that little problem.
Yeah, and if Pres Bush had Libby killed and buried in the Nevada desert, it would also remove those clouds. Out of sight, out of mind, right?
Kristol is such an idiot -wrong on this issue, as he was wrong about the invasion, and as he is wrong about the “surge”. He says “if things get better in Iraq, as I suspect they are thanks to the surge”. That is a truckload of wishful thinking, which is what he and others used to advocate the invasion of Iraq.
Why anyone would listen to this man anymore is beyond me.
March 11th, 2007 at 12:18 pmIs there anyone in this blog that thinks for a second that Bush will not pardon Libby? Libby will be pardoned prior to June of this year. Bush ill some dumb ass thing like God told him too. All these NeoCons should going to prison.
March 11th, 2007 at 12:22 pmI would support no Presidential pardons… For either party. We live in a different age, where inofrmation is more readily available, and the likelihood of someone needing pardoning is not worth the risks.
March 11th, 2007 at 12:22 pmI can’t believe Kristol dares to show his face around any more. He has been wrong on every count for so long that I’m beginning to wonder whether it’s just schtick. A column in the Weakly Standard listing all of the things that have gone right in Iraq compared to the initial projections would be welcome.
March 11th, 2007 at 12:23 pmLibby is a convicted felon becuase the VP of the USA is a liar. Why did Libby so vigorously and willingly obstruct justice and perjure himself over an EDITORIAL in the NYT. Get it? An EDITORIAL. Cheney’s irrational and unreasonable reaction to that EDITORIAL has a lot of backstory and speaks volumes about how strongly Cheney needed war to feed his bloodlust for oil and power.
March 11th, 2007 at 12:32 pmBoy, is he a klutz. Just pardon this criminal, and noooooobody else is ever going to wonder who was behind the traiterous outing of a CIA operation devoted to uncovering WMDs.
March 11th, 2007 at 12:35 pmDuhh, not.
Kristol should be staring back at us through prison bars. He is a criminal like the rest of his neo-con job pals
March 11th, 2007 at 12:35 pmkristol is consistently wrong about everything. more of the same.
March 11th, 2007 at 12:36 pmO.T. but:
They are having riots in Columbia,and trying to stone our President:why would they do that?
March 11th, 2007 at 12:37 pmKristol is just brain-dead at this moment. Notice how Psychopaths - like Kristol - smile when some of the most insane things are said from him. Psychopaths do not understand emotion. People like Kristol are murders and liars with blood on their hands and a smile on their face - wake up to it America. And we can get these devil worshiping, puppet-fools of Lucifer, sub-humans/proto-humans out of politics and off TV.
March 11th, 2007 at 12:41 pmBill Kristol’s opinions = Sunday comics.
March 11th, 2007 at 12:43 pmI can’t believe Kristol dares to show his face around any more. He has been wrong on every count for so long that I’m beginning to wonder whether it’s just schtick. A column in the Weakly Standard listing all of the things that have gone right in Iraq compared to the initial projections would be welcome.
Comment by jcasey — March 11, 2007 @ 12:23 pm
If I didn’t know better, Kristol and those on the Right who are like him keep saying this sh*t just to piss off those on the Left…and that’s all. He knows it will get a reaction, and it does. Whether or not we on the Left should react may be debatable, but indeed by posting Kristol’s filth from his mouth here it is giving him another outlet.
March 11th, 2007 at 12:45 pmBill Kristol’s opinions = Sunday comics.
Comment by Marie
With all due respect,Marie,that’s false;the comics make way more sense,and do much less damage.
March 11th, 2007 at 12:51 pmWould that be a mushroom cloud?
March 11th, 2007 at 12:53 pmive said it before & im saying it again; Kristol’s dream reality is LIFE IN A VAACUUM…actions & words with no consequeces, no one is there to hld you accountable or question you…just “everybody shut up, get out of my way & let me do whatever i want to do!!!”
March 11th, 2007 at 12:54 pmNo wonder the rest of the world has a very poor opinion of us.We have hate merchants like Coulter appearing on tv & Kristol who is yet to be right on anything are seen as experts.What a sad state our America has evolved into.
March 11th, 2007 at 12:59 pm“…and it will demoralize his supporters.†-B. Kristol
It amazes me how these “commentators” reach conclusions without any evidence or reasons! How, exactly how, does he know what the effect will be on supporters?
Why anyone takes such unsupported statements seriously is beyond me.
March 11th, 2007 at 12:59 pmKristol is nothing more than a mouth piece for rove/cheney - his comments, are nothing that deserve any serious consideration. Simply by being on Faux news, he’s designate himself as a WH whore.
March 11th, 2007 at 1:03 pmActually, a pardon of Libby could be great!
Then he could be subpoenaed by Congress and they could have him testify at length, and he couldn’t plead the Fifth on anything he’d been pardoned on.
March 11th, 2007 at 1:07 pmSwBob is dead on. Kristol is little karl’s street walker. What a dog’s life he must live.
March 11th, 2007 at 1:11 pm[…] Bill Kristol claims that pardoning Libby would remove the “cloud hanging over his White House and over the war.†…And the war! Because, you know, the only bad thing that’s happened in Iraq is that a republican in America was held responsible for a crime. […]
March 11th, 2007 at 1:12 pmA pardon would be “Obstruction of Justice” since it would prevent Fitz from using Scooper [sic] against Cheney and gang.
March 11th, 2007 at 1:20 pmI don’t watch or pay attention to this moon faced old piece of crap, he’s but another little whore for this administration…
Dark cloud over the white house indeed, in fact it is such a black cloud it has turned the white house to black……
A total new paint job after the removal of all the black hearted looter’s are removed is the only thing we can do……Of course we have to fumigate as well…Blessings..
March 11th, 2007 at 1:22 pmWhy, on God’s green Earth should anyone give a fat rat’s ass what this pathetic excuse for a humane being says or thinks?
March 11th, 2007 at 1:22 pmHey, kristol, why not ask who ordered the forged documents to be begin with?
Who would be the ones that would benefit? Who was pushing false evidence to start a war?
Follow this thread and I will bet the rent that it leads right back to cheney’s office.
March 11th, 2007 at 1:28 pmkritol’s dementia kinda a leaves ya speechless.
fox continuely giving that craven anti-American dolt a soap box form which to spew his anti-American nonsense is an indictment of fox
March 11th, 2007 at 1:41 pm.
Bill Krystol on Fox News… just more preaching to the choir. Thank god the choir keeps losing its members.
March 11th, 2007 at 1:45 pm“It it only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, more vengence, more desolation.”
Gen. William Tecumseh Sherman after the Civil War
Kristol, like the rest of the neocons never served in the Military and not one of these bastards gives a damn about those who have served or their families or the average Citizen in general.
CONSERVATIVES ARE DESTROYING OUR MILITARY AND THE UNITED STATES ALONG WITH IT!
March 11th, 2007 at 1:52 pmKristol has to stay at Fox “News” because if he showed up anywhere else, someone would point out that he’s never been right about anything. What continues to amaze me is that someone can make a really good living offering opinions that are so consistently wrong. If you were paying someone for financial advice, and that advice meant you were consistently losing money, eventually you’d wise up and fire the idiot. But Kristol? More evidence that the neocons never ever listen and never ever learn a damn thing.
March 11th, 2007 at 1:56 pmHey zooey. I accepted your challenge on the “Lost Opportunity” thread? I’ll be waiting for your brilliance!
March 11th, 2007 at 2:23 pmRe: #54. Kristol has to stay at Fox “News†because if he showed up anywhere else, someone would point out that he’s never been right about anything.
My thoughts exactly. Even so, Time Magazine recently gave Andrew Sullivan the boot and hired Kristol in his place. Makes you kinda wonder what incentives BushCo gave Time Warner to retain their cheerleader in chief.
Bill Kristol is so delusional that you have to wonder which psychedelic he’s on.
March 11th, 2007 at 2:25 pmFrank Rich - in today’s article - finally exposed Libby’s involvement in the WHIG group….something the NYT refused to do for all these years.
We wrote about this group of SNAKE OIL MERCHANTS whose job it was to sell the war….and no one really cared, did they…?????
Maybe it’s high time to revive awareness of the White House IRAQ Group…
March 11th, 2007 at 2:27 pm
michael; go play with your sock puppets, leave the intellegent discussions for adults.
March 11th, 2007 at 2:30 pm“We’re gonna f**k ‘em.”
Harriet Grant, wife of Scooter Libby, reacting to her husband’s conviction, March 6, 2007.
Just one of the “GOP Quotes of the Week.”
March 11th, 2007 at 2:30 pm“michael; go play with your sock puppets, leave the intellegent discussions for adults.
Comment by Uncle Ho — March 11, 2007 @ 2:30 pm”
Do I take that as a challenge ho?
March 11th, 2007 at 2:36 pmmichael; take it any way U want.
March 11th, 2007 at 2:38 pmIs anyone still surprised when Kristol comes up with his wild-eyed excuses and solutions for the depravity of this administration?
March 11th, 2007 at 2:40 pm“michael; take it any way U want.
Comment by Uncle Ho — March 11, 2007 @ 2:38 pm”
Now I’m going to have to embarrass you!
March 11th, 2007 at 2:42 pmDoes that seriously make any sense? Does anyone believe that any of the, oh, 70% of the country that has a unfavorable opinion of the administration will, after a pardon by one of its own of one of its own, think, “Wow, I guess they’re not so corrupt after all.”
March 11th, 2007 at 2:43 pmmichael; you only embarrass yourself when you come to TP and parrot KKK Rove’s talking points. Go play with yourself.
March 11th, 2007 at 2:45 pmHo, I noticed that you have nothing to say about this thread. Why are you here?
March 11th, 2007 at 2:46 pmBush can’t pardon Libby just yet. If Libby gets a pardon, he loses his 5th amendment perogative to not testify. The last thing Rove and Cheney want to hear is some judge, prosecutor or senator say, “please instruct your client to answer the question.”
March 11th, 2007 at 2:47 pmmichael; Pay attention son. I’ve said any number of times on any number of threads, that Kristol is a cowardly, draft-dodging chickenhawk who should be one of the first ones drafted, shipped out to Iraq, and be killed in the war he supports. But he has no balls to put his body where his mouth is. Just like you.
March 11th, 2007 at 2:54 pmTitle 28 - Code of Federal Regulations
Chapter I - Department of Justice
Part 1 - Executive Clemency
[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 28, Volume 1, Parts 0 to 42]
[Revised as of July 1, 2000]
Sec. 1.2 Eligibility for filing petition for pardon.
No petition for pardon should be filed until the expiration of a waiting period of at least five years after the date of the release of the petitioner from confinement or, in case no prison sentence was imposed, until the expiration of a period of at least five years after the date of the conviction of the petitioner. Generally, no petition should be submitted by a person who is on probation, parole, or supervised release.
March 11th, 2007 at 3:01 pmWatching the video, it looks like even Brit Hume is bewildered by Kristol’s tortured logic.
March 11th, 2007 at 3:01 pmBush has refused to pardon the two border patrol agents who were charged and imprisoned for trying to catch a drug dealer. His reason was because he was following Justice Dept. guidelines. for him to pardon Libby, now or in the near future, he would have to reverse his present stance. These are the guidelines he claims he is following:
Sec. 1.2 Eligibility for filing petition for pardon.
No petition for pardon should be filed until the expiration of a waiting period of at least five years after the date of the release of the petitioner from confinement or, in case no prison sentence was imposed, until the expiration of a period of at least five years after the date of the conviction of the petitioner. Generally, no petition should be submitted by a person who is on probation, parole, or supervised release.
Sec. 1.3 Eligibility for filing petition for commutation of sentence.
No petition for commutation of sentence, including remission of fine, should be filed if other forms of judicial or administrative relief are available, except upon a showing of exceptional circumstances.
March 11th, 2007 at 3:32 pm“michael; Pay attention son. I’ve said any number of times on any number of threads, that Kristol is a cowardly, draft-dodging chickenhawk who should be one of the first ones drafted, shipped out to Iraq, and be killed in the war he supports. But he has no balls to put his body where his mouth is. Just like you.
Comment by Uncle Ho — March 11, 2007 @ 2:54 pm”
This is the first comment, although childish, that you have made on this thread, now how about backing some of it up? How about your comment about him being a “cowardly, draft-dodging chickenhawk”? I’m sure you have some proof of this? And then you say “Just like you”. I served, did you?
March 11th, 2007 at 3:39 pmI wonder what color of kool-aid he was drinking.
March 11th, 2007 at 3:46 pmmichael; FACT: Kristol ducked out on the Vietnam war copping a deferment. And yes, I did serve, I was drafted. Gotta split for a meeting of http://www.bluenovember.org. you running imperialist dog.
March 11th, 2007 at 3:47 pmbtw michael; go to http://www.newhampshiregazette they have entire lists of your ‘heroes’ who did NOT serve or google chickenhawk. TTFN (ta ta for now).
March 11th, 2007 at 3:49 pmWhat would begin to lift the “cloud” from the WH is the impeachment of Bush and Chaney. The “cloud” might be fully lifted when they are hanged for crimes against the people.
March 11th, 2007 at 4:10 pmI support UncleHo’s characterization of the chickenhawks and would go much further in challenging their bravery or lack of….perhaps its a good thing these arrogant bastards weren’t in Nam or I can assure you they would have been fragged….
March 11th, 2007 at 4:14 pmGoodbye. There are some on this thread I abhor. No comment. It will only lead to them hijacking the thread and disrupting others. I will walk away the bigger person here.
March 11th, 2007 at 4:16 pmThe site cited by Uncle Ho in #75 is a nogo, Instead try this one.
March 11th, 2007 at 4:20 pmHow can anyone be so stupid as to think that a pardon would be seen as anything but injustice? How can anyone be so stupid as to actually believe this will legitimize the war? Oh wait, Bill Kristol, oh yeah. He’s been pushing the limits of human retardation for years.
March 11th, 2007 at 4:29 pmLier and inbecile.
March 11th, 2007 at 4:44 pmThey are having riots in Columbia,and trying to stone our President:why would they do that?
Comment by troll alert — March 11, 2007 @ 12:37 pm
BETTER QUESTION - Why aren’t we doing the same?
March 11th, 2007 at 4:48 pmUNFORTUNATELY Bill Kristol was right once. In an editorial in the Weekly Standard he wrote ” This nation has NEVER not reelected a President, when it was at war. ” Nevertheless..Cheney deserves a cloud over him.
March 11th, 2007 at 5:04 pm“How can anyone be so stupid as to think that a pardon would be seen as anything but injustice?”
Me!
March 11th, 2007 at 5:05 pm“btw michael; go to http://www.newhampshiregazette they have entire lists of your ‘heroes’ who did NOT serve or google chickenhawk. TTFN (ta ta for now).
Comment by Uncle Ho — March 11, 2007 @ 3:49 pm”
Ho, I’m waiting? Don’t send me to some dumb website. Explain to me in your words. Can you?
March 11th, 2007 at 5:08 pm#83 - Badger,
March 11th, 2007 at 5:12 pmWhat about Truman (Remember Korea, Ike - I know that Adlai ran, but Harry saw the light and jumped ship.).
Truman chose not to run again. He wasn’t too popular at that point. So Billy was still technically correct.
March 11th, 2007 at 5:19 pmDespite Kristol’s claims, Bush pardoning Libby won’t end the cloud of suspicion over the white house. This is red meat thrown to the ditto heads like our dear Michael, who want to believe in elves, wmd’s and other fairy tales. Kristol is a jackass, and should be on the front lines, instead of smugly spewing bullsh!t.
March 11th, 2007 at 5:21 pmHo, I noticed that you have nothing to say about this thread. Why are you here?
Comment by michael — March 11, 2007 @ 2:46 pm
No Michael we’ve noticed that you’ve had nothing to say on this thread.
And since you are in that under 30% of intellectually challenged citizens who still don’t get it we find you tiresome and boring.
Now get back on your knees and finish up KKKKarl and maybe he’ll give you something interesting to lie about.
March 11th, 2007 at 5:27 pmWalt…LBJ did the same thing.
March 11th, 2007 at 5:29 pmIraq: the hidden cost of the war
America won’t simply be paying with its dead. The Pentagon is trying to silence economists who predict that several decades of care for the wounded will amount to an unbelievable $2.5 trillion.
Casualty conspiracy
the number of wounded listed on the VA website dropped from 50,508 to 21,649. The Bush administration had, once again, turned reality on its head to concur with its claims.
So far, more than 200,000 veterans from the current Iraq or Afghanistan wars have been treated at VA centres. Twenty per cent of those brought home are suffering from serious brain or spinal injuries,
There is now a backlog of 400,000 claims from veterans and waiting lists of months, some of which “render . . . care virtually inaccessible”, in the words of Frances Murphy, the VA’s own deputy under-secretary for health. Claims are expected to hit 874,000 this year, 930,000 in 2008. Casualties returning from Iraq meanwhile outnumber other patients at Walter Reed 17 to one, and many have to be put up at nearby hotels and motels rather than in the hospital beds they desperately need. Suicide attempts are frequent; often the less wounded end up having to care for the more seriously wounded.
GEORGE BUSH HATES THE TROOPS BRING THEM HOME NOW
March 11th, 2007 at 5:30 pmWhile Congress may be stymied, however, something important is happening in Iraq.
Few Americans pay attention to Iraqi politics, but over the past few days something has occurred that could change the course of the war. For the first time since the Iraqi election of 2005, a coalition of Sunni and Shiite Arab parties and leaders is starting to take shape, across the sectarian divide that has fueled the civil war. It began two days ago, with the announcement by the Fadhila (Islamic Virtue) party that it is leaving the United Iraqi Alliance (UIA), to become an independent political party.
THIS CAN STOP AMERICA GETTING ITS HANDS ON IRAI OIL
March 11th, 2007 at 5:44 pmComment by Delhi, India
A Rachel by any other name would still stink up the threads.
March 11th, 2007 at 5:48 pm#90 - Badger,
March 11th, 2007 at 6:04 pmBut LBJ did it for different reasons - civil rights rebound from the South. That’s when all the Dixiecrats switched to the Republic party.
# 92 I read about this new Iraqi coalition too. It is on shaky ground, but if it holds, our problems in Iraq may be over sooner than we think. If they replace the Maliki Govt. they will ASK US TO LEAVE IRAQ. Democracy in action.:)
March 11th, 2007 at 6:05 pmWalt…what you say about the Dixiecrats/southern strategy is true, but I was watching when LBJ announced he wouldn,t run for reelection. Everyone was stunned, but he claimed it was to try to end the Viet Nam War.
March 11th, 2007 at 6:13 pmHey zooey. I accepted your challenge on the “Lost Opportunity†thread? I’ll be waiting for your brilliance!
Comment by michael
The ball is in your court, chickenshit.
That is, if you’re still standing after Uncle Ho kicked the shit out of you.
:-D
March 11th, 2007 at 6:25 pm#84
“How can anyone be so stupid as to think that a pardon would be seen as anything but injustice?â€
Me!
Comment by michael — March 11, 2007 @ 5:05 pm
I’ll be laughing for days at Michael’s stunning admission!
BTW Michael, you’re a favorite f*ck up in my family — that was my son to whom you admitted your stupidity. :-D
March 11th, 2007 at 6:37 pm#96 - Badger,
March 11th, 2007 at 6:56 pmI know what he said. He actually withdrew because he believed that Herbert cold win with an end the war platform. Humphrey managed to seize defeat from the jaws of victory by supporting the war. Lyndon scathed the man for his misadventure. I know, I was in Texas politics at the time.
That ‘cold’ s/b ‘could’. Damn these wireless keyboards.
March 11th, 2007 at 7:00 pmmichael; are you too chickenshit to visit some dumb website ? What are you afraid of little boy, the truth?
Walt: thank you for the correction, I was running late for the meeting and hurried my post.
angryvietnamvet; welcome home brother. I agree with you to the nth degree. Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Feith, Perle, Limpdick, & michael would have been fragged the 1st week in-country (I would have done the fragging- the Nam really made me bad-tempered).
March 11th, 2007 at 7:04 pmWalt…. the fact that Eugene McCarthy kicked his but in the New Hampshire primary had a lot to do with it too. The 1968 Chicago convention did Humphrey in…that and Nixons Lie about a secret plan to end the war.
March 11th, 2007 at 7:06 pmA Rachel by any other name would still stink up the threads.
Comment by barfly — March 11, 2007 @ 5:48 pm
At least the two or three people who were concerned about her can feel better knowing she’s still very much a lying sack of shit who tries to manipulate people to get attention.
Rachel and MA should hang out - they are both bottom of the barrel scum for joking about suicide and dead children.
March 11th, 2007 at 7:09 pmDon’t send me to some dumb website. Explain to me in your words. Can you?
Comment by michael — March 11, 2007 @ 5:08 pm
LOL! This from the guy who never posts more than 10-15 words himself! LOL… You trolls are so amusing…
March 11th, 2007 at 7:11 pm#101 - Uncle Ho,
March 11th, 2007 at 9:06 pmYou may notice that I bold all of my links. The reason for that is quite simple - I have developing cataracs. The doc says that surgery may be required in September. It is nothing traumatic as the current procedures are minor and result in vision that is better after the surgery then before. A neighbor who had it no longer has to wear glasses except for reading. Right now, I cannot drive after dark which is why I retired from my job in Jacksonville, FL (47 miles from Saint Augustine.).
Walt; I hope things work out ok about the cataracts, however you play it.
March 11th, 2007 at 9:16 pmWhy is Bill Kristol still alive?
March 11th, 2007 at 9:23 pmSomeone should tell Kristol that a pardon would mean Libby accepts guilt.
How does admitting guilt remove the cloud of corruption?
I suppose he thinks we are all as dumb as his regular audience.
March 11th, 2007 at 9:30 pmThe cloud over the White House could be one of two things: Either it’s that mysterious mushroom cloud- that smoking gun- we have been warned of for about four years now, or Chimpy is back from South America and stinking up the place again, with his deadly and obnoxious farts.
March 11th, 2007 at 9:41 pmWalt,
Both of my parents have had cataract surgery (and I’m headed that way, too), and it was a breeze. My mom said the drops you put in your eyes afterward are the hardest part, so no problemo. And you get to wear some pretty funky sunglasses home. :P
March 11th, 2007 at 9:43 pmWell, I see that resident troll michael finally admitted to being stupid -without even being prompted…. LOL
If we could only get all the other trolls to be this brutally honest!
March 11th, 2007 at 10:14 pmmichael; Pay attention son. I’ve said any number of times on any number of threads, that Kristol is a cowardly, draft-dodging chickenhawk who should be one of the first ones drafted, shipped out to Iraq, and be killed in the war he supports. But he has no balls to put his body where his mouth is.
Comment by Uncle Ho
Now how about backing some of it up? How about your comment about him being a “cowardly, draft-dodging chickenhawk� I’m sure you have some proof of this? michael at @ 3:39 pm
Don’t send me to some dumb website. Explain to me in your words. Can you?
Comment by michael — at @ 5:08 pm
Mikey seems to be lacking in reading comprehension. Uncle Ho already explained the Kristol problem in his own words. Mikey also can’t make up his mind whether he wants to read something in another poster’s own words or be presented with documented proof–a trait I’ve noticed on other threads where he has trolled as well. Either he is just plain stupid or is here to try to waste our time–or perhaps both.
March 11th, 2007 at 10:16 pm#105 WalttMan
March 11th, 2007 at 10:18 pmI worked for many years as med. asst. for an ophthalmologist. Cataract surgery is amazingly successful today. 99% of patients are very satisfied.
Hey all, I am not at all concerned. As stated before, I have the prior experience of a neighbor. Back in the 70’s and 80’s, it was a touch and go situation. I only mentioned it because it would be a service to us on the edge to make it easier to hook onto links by providing a bit of emphasis. The dim underlining of links in other posts is hard to find for the visually impaired. Isn’t this better than this? No links, just a demonstration.
March 11th, 2007 at 10:58 pmF*CK BUSH and his supporters- all 29 of them.
March 11th, 2007 at 11:23 pm“michael; you only embarrass yourself when you come to TP and parrot KKK Rove’s talking points. Go play with yourself.
Comment by Uncle Ho — March 11, 2007 @ 2:45 pm”
Really? Well then I guess it won’t be too difficult for you to provide some examples? NOT!
March 12th, 2007 at 12:50 am“Kristol is a cowardly, draft-dodging chickenhawk who should be one of the first ones drafted, shipped out to Iraq, and be killed in the war he supports.
Comment by Uncle Ho — March 11, 2007 @ 2:54 pm”
Back that statement up with SOMETHING?
March 12th, 2007 at 12:53 am“michael; FACT: Kristol ducked out on the Vietnam war copping a deferment. And yes, I did serve, I was drafted.
Comment by Uncle Ho — March 11, 2007 @ 3:47 pm”
And your point?
March 12th, 2007 at 12:55 amBack that statement up with SOMETHING?
Comment by michael — March 12, 2007 @ 12:53 am
Back up that challenge with SOMETHING?
March 12th, 2007 at 12:56 amReally? Well then I guess it won’t be too difficult for you to provide some examples? NOT! Comment by michael — March 12, 2007 @ 12:50 am
Really? Well then I guess it won’t be too difficult for you to provide some counter-examples? NOT!
March 12th, 2007 at 12:57 amAnd your point?
Comment by michael — March 12, 2007 @ 12:55 am
And your point? Oh wait, you NEVER have one, dum bass.
March 12th, 2007 at 12:58 am“The ball is in your court, chickenshit.
That is, if you’re still standing after Uncle Ho kicked the shit out of you.
:-D
Comment by Zooey — March 11, 2007 @ 6:25 pm”
I love how you “cut and run” liberals toss bombs over the wall and then run and hide under your beds when challenged! COWARDS!
March 12th, 2007 at 12:59 am“BTW Michael, you’re a favorite f*ck up in my family — that was my son to whom you admitted your stupidity. :-D
Comment by Zooey — March 11, 2007 @ 6:37 pm”
If he was from your family is he hiding under the same bed as you?
March 12th, 2007 at 1:01 amangryvietnamvet; welcome home brother. I agree with you to the nth degree. Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Feith, Perle, Limpdick, & michael would have been fragged the 1st week in-country (I would have done the fragging- the Nam really made me bad-tempered).
Comment by Uncle Ho — March 11, 2007 @ 7:04 pm
Aaah - and the world would be a better place for it. Survival of the fittest those a.. holes are guaranteed losers.
March 12th, 2007 at 1:01 am“No Michael we’ve noticed that you’ve had nothing to say on this thread.
And since you are in that under 30% of intellectually challenged citizens who still don’t get it we find you tiresome and boring.
Now get back on your knees and finish up KKKKarl and maybe he’ll give you something interesting to lie about.
Comment by shane — March 11, 2007 @ 5:27 pm”
I’m not here to make any point but to expose you liberals for your dumb rhetoric, get use to it!
March 12th, 2007 at 1:03 am“And your point? Oh wait, you NEVER have one, dum bass.
Comment by ValiantVenusGrewFromUranus — March 12, 2007″
I don’t need a point, I just expose your stupidity!
March 12th, 2007 at 1:04 amWell, I see that resident troll michael finally admitted to being stupid -without even being prompted…. LOL
If we could only get all the other trolls to be this brutally honest!
Comment by Gregor Samsa — March 11, 2007 @ 10:14 pm
THE TROLL IS ALWAYS THE LAST TO KNOW!
March 12th, 2007 at 1:04 am“Really? Well then I guess it won’t be too difficult for you to provide some counter-examples? NOT!
Comment by ValiantVenusGrewFromUranus — March 12, 2007″
That’s not how it works! You lefties make ridiculous statements and all I do is ask you to back them up and most of the time you CAN’T!
March 12th, 2007 at 1:06 amThis sums up your collective liberal stupidity:
Really? Well then I guess it won’t be too difficult for you to provide some examples? NOT! Comment by michael — March 12, 2007 @ 12:50 am
Really? Well then I guess it won’t be too difficult for you to provide some counter-examples? NOT!
Comment by ValiantVenusGrewFromUranus — March 12, 2007 @ 12:57 am
Valiant is a perfect example of a very uninformed liberal dope! I ask for examples to back up dumb comments and I’m challenged to disprove it! Do you idiots feel proud that you can make such absurd statements without being able to back them up with facts and then put the burden on me to disprove them?
March 12th, 2007 at 1:14 amSo does that mean your finished with Karl?
Michael you don’t have to tell us you’re not here to make any point. You haven’t been making a point all day.
So why don’t you tell us why you really are here?
Who exactly are you exposing this rhetoric to? So unless you are working as a spy for the Republican party (oooh) you are really accomplishing nothing.
Tell us Mikey are you a spy? Because really we would all be so impressed. But I suspect even you family knows you never accomplish anything.
March 12th, 2007 at 1:15 amThe only difference is to them you are probably a MAJOR annoyance and to us you are no more than a pesky gnat.
Michael there’s always a quid pro quo. You give us something and we’ll give you something back.
Better yet, why don’t you just go away and we won’t come find you.
Deal?
March 12th, 2007 at 1:19 am#
“Kristol is a cowardly, draft-dodging chickenhawk who should be one of the first ones drafted, shipped out to Iraq, and be killed in the war he supports.
Comment by Uncle Ho — March 11, 2007 @ 2:54 pmâ€
Says michael “Back that statement up with SOMETHING?” @ 12:53 am
Said by michael at @ 5:08, a half a day earlier” Don’t send me to some dumb website. Explain to me in your words. Can you?”
I’m not here to make any point but to expose you liberals for your dumb rhetoric, (These are really two separate sentences, mikey) get use(SIC) to it!
Blather by michael
As usual, Mikey asks for facts but then refuses to look at/read them when they’re given. Moreover, he is also too stupid to realize that in admittedly not trying “to make any point,” he also exposes absolutely nothing but his own idiocy. What a freaking waste of time bandwidth!
March 12th, 2007 at 1:20 amapparently michael is too stoooopid to recognize a fact even when it snaps him in the ass. Off to work now, I’ll come later to play.
March 12th, 2007 at 8:15 am#129 - “Do you idiots feel proud that you can make such absurd statements without being able to back them up with facts and then put the burden on me to disprove them?” Comment by michael — March 12, 2007 @ 1:14 am
Wow, I have to give “michael” credit for this post.
I mean, it would be just like if Pres. Bush made some wild-assed, fabricated claim like “Iraq has WMD’s!” and then expect Iraq to disprove these wild-assed, fabricated lies.
Oh, wait. That DID happen!
March 12th, 2007 at 10:15 amComment by Zooey — March 11, 2007 @ 6:25 pmâ€
I love how you “cut and run†liberals toss bombs over the wall and then run and hide under your beds when challenged! COWARDS!
Comment by michael — March 12, 2007 @ 12:59 am
Says Michael after hiding in the outhouse for over 6 hours.
Hey Michael, why do you only post comments in the middle of the night?
My debate challenge still stands:
Topic: Michael is a complete and total mororn.
Michael’s task: Argue in favor of the above point.
Michael goes first.
Go ahead Michael, it’s been 3 weeks. Chickenshit.
March 12th, 2007 at 1:13 pmIf he was from your family is he hiding under the same bed as you?
Comment by michael
My son could knock that chickenshit out of you, if you’d ever leave the outhouse. He could have done it when he was 13.
March 12th, 2007 at 1:15 pmLook! Up in the sky! It’s a bird! It’s a plane?
March 12th, 2007 at 1:39 pmNo it’s pigs flying.
I’m actually looking forward to Pres. Bush giving Libby a pardon.
It will be YET ANOTHER flip-flop for flippy mc flipper, Pres. W(ill flip-flop in a heartbeat) Bush.
It will make for great election material: Why vote for another lying Republican? He said he’d fire the person responsible, and then refused to hold them accountable for their actions. GOP stands for “Gives Out Pardons” to convicted criminals.
March 12th, 2007 at 4:42 pm#136
My son could knock that chickenshit out of you, if you’d ever leave the outhouse. He could have done it when he was 13.
Comment by Zooey
It that the son with the limp wrist or the metrosexual one?
March 12th, 2007 at 5:13 pmtest
March 12th, 2007 at 5:22 pmWilliam Kristol, “Neo-con” warrior–Neo CON-man, THAT IS!!!!! This DESPICABLE LITTLE SHIT Kristol SHOULD BE TARRED, FEATHERED and RUN OUT OF TOWN ON A RAIL–THIS MISERABLE F*CKHEAD Kristol IS A MORON, A BOMBASTIC IMBECILE, and A MORALLY DEPRAVED QUEER WHO THINKS HE IS THE BE-ALL, END-ALL OF ADVICE TO Bushland Uber Allies and Fuhrer CHIMPya–WHEN IN REALITY HIS TWO LEAD SLUGS OF USELESS ADVICE ARE AS WELCOME AS A CANDIRU FISH IN THE VASELINE, A SMELLY LARGE TURD IN THE PUNCHBOWL, PHOSPHORIC ACID IN THE BAPTISMAL FONT, SPANISH FLY IN THE CHOCOLATE CHIP COOKIES, DEATHCAP MUSHROOMS ON THE PIZZA, and PUFFER FISH INNARDS AND BLOOD IN THE FISH CHOWDER!!!!!
March 13th, 2007 at 3:41 pm