AUDIO: Top U.S. General Calls Homosexuality ‘Immoral,’ Compares To Adultery
AUDIO: Top U.S. General Calls Homosexuality ‘Immoral,’ Compares To Adultery
Joint Chiefs Chairman Gen. Peter Pace said today that homosexuality is “immoral” and that he supports Don’t Ask Don’t Tell because “we should not condone immoral acts.” In an interview with the Chicago Tribune, Pace also compared homosexuality to adultery, claiming that the military should “not tolerate” homosexuality just as it rejects “military members who sleep with other military members’ wives.”
Pace’s bigoted remarks expose the flawed foundation of Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell, and show Pace to be in the minority. A Dec. 2006 Zogby poll of U.S. soldiers found that nearly three in four troops (73 percent) say “they are personally comfortable in the presence of gays and lesbians,” and a Harris poll last month showed that 55 percent of Americans “think gays and lesbians should be allowed to serve openly in the military.” At least 24 nations including Israel, Britain and other U.S. allies “let gays serve openly, with none reporting morale or recruitment problems.”
Earlier this year, Pace’s predecessor Gen. John Shalikashvilii announced his support for repealing Don’t Ask Don’t Tell: “I now believe that if gay men and lesbians served openly in the United States military, they would not undermine the efficacy of the armed forces.”
UPDATE: AmericaBlog has more.
Transcript:
PACE: My upbringing is such that I believe that there are certain things, certain types of conduct that are immoral. I believe that military members who sleep with other military members’ wives are immoral in their conduct, and that we should not tolerate that. I believe that homosexual acts between individuals are immoral, and that we should not condone immoral acts. So the Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell allows an individual to serve the country, not — [inaudible] that allows individuals to serve their country. If we know about immoral acts, regardless of committed by who or — then we have a responsibility. And I do not believe that the Armed Forces of the United States are well served by saying through our policies that it’s okay to be immoral in any way, in any way, not just with regards to homosexuality. This is from that standpoint saying that gays should serve openly in the military to me says that we, by policy, would be condoning what I believe is immoral activity. And therefore, as an individual, I would not want that to be my policy, just like I would not want it to be our policy that, if were to find out that so-and-so was sleeping with someone’s wife, that we would just look the other way, which we do not. We prosecute that kind of immoral behavior between members of the Armed Forces.
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It was adultery when Gen Pace did it.
March 12th, 2007 at 9:15 pmWhy did Jesus say if you are free of sin may you cast the first stone? Is Pace free of sin or do they just ignore Jesus preaching
March 12th, 2007 at 9:17 pmPace is a dunce who got promoted to his position by kissing ass. Now, thats perverted, in my book. Off with his balls.
March 12th, 2007 at 9:20 pmDoes this mean, then, that it is not adultery if one of the military members sleeps with other military members husbands”?? Just trying to get square on your thinking General.
March 12th, 2007 at 9:21 pmDid you hear that Gingrich and Guliani? Adulterers are the same as homosexuals–Bush’s General says so.
March 12th, 2007 at 9:24 pm[...] tip: Nico Pitney, Think Progress) posted 03/12/07 at 6:26 pm View blog reactions [print ] [email [...]
March 12th, 2007 at 9:25 pmAre you sure this is the most evolved planet in our solar system? How ’bout the gallaxy? Any bets? Planet of the Apes is starting to look more and more like the status quo and Chimpy is just another ape in the long, long list of monkeys. Have a banana, Chimpy.
March 12th, 2007 at 9:27 pmPersonally, I do believe Gen.Pace is gay. Always have thought it. Can’t technically says it’s my gaydar but you just know.
March 12th, 2007 at 9:28 pmWhere is he?
March 12th, 2007 at 9:30 pmThey just ignore anything that doesn’t support their ideas.
Calling someone immoral is bearing a grudge, isn’t it?
March 12th, 2007 at 9:30 pmI heard about those Roman military types…
March 12th, 2007 at 9:31 pmWhy do our troops not support our troops? (homosexual troops are STILL troops.)
March 12th, 2007 at 9:32 pmGood lord, what the hell is this, the Middle Ages?
March 12th, 2007 at 9:36 pmThe Iraq was is immoral. President Bush’s lying to Congress was immoral and unethical and illegal. Slaughtering thousands for no reason except profit and power is immoral.
Gen Pace is typical of the morons that run this country.
March 12th, 2007 at 9:37 pmshould “not tolerate†homosexuality just as it rejects “military members who sleep with other military members’ wives.†– - Oh, what about military husbands? What about non-military people? Peter “Principle” Pace, indeed.
March 12th, 2007 at 9:39 pmSo I guess the general won’t be voting for McCain or Giuliani.
March 12th, 2007 at 9:40 pmIt’s immoral for Gen Pace to say that homosexuality is immoral.
March 12th, 2007 at 9:41 pmSo Collateral damage is moral?
March 12th, 2007 at 9:42 pmOh, hell, just send them to rehab for three weeks. Training camp takes longer.
March 12th, 2007 at 9:43 pmPACE: My upbringing is such that I believe that there are certain things, certain types of conduct that are immoral. I believe that military members who sleep with other military members’ wives are immoral in their conduct.
Spending a million dollars to shoot a camel in the butt is moral however.
March 12th, 2007 at 9:45 pmGen Pace would probably not find this behavior immoral.
“Israel has recalled its ambassador to El Salvador after police found him on the streets of the capital blind drunk and wearing nothing but bondage gear, a foreign ministry official said on Monday.”
The ambassador was probably finishing up a late-night party with Bush on his swing through Latin America.
March 12th, 2007 at 9:47 pm1) I wonder if killing people who have not harmed us is immoral?
2) Are illegal wars immoral?
3) Collateral damage immoral ?
4) Holding people for years wihtout trial immoral?
5) Torture Immoral?
6) Kidnapping people from one country and sending them off to other countries to be interrogated by torture immoral?
7) Lying to the people of a country to get them into an endless war Immoral?
8) War profiteering Immoral?
Give me homosexuality any day!
March 12th, 2007 at 9:52 pm3000+ soldiers killed in a war that was based on lies and genital-waving and Gen. Pace has nothing better to do than talk about how he finds homosexuality “immoral.”
Great job, General. I feel so safe now.
March 12th, 2007 at 9:56 pmSex is the only sin to these guys. Lying, cheating, stealing, murder for profit, kicking soldier when they’re down; all in a days work.
March 12th, 2007 at 9:58 pmOthers sex lives, its bad. For that impeachment.
What does Gen Pace have to say about the 90% of female soldiers reporting that they have been sexually harrassed in the military.
What does he have to say about the female soldiers raped by other soldiers.
What does he have to say about female soldiers in Iraq who sleep with a knife to protect themselves from their fellow soldiers.
What does he have to say about the fact that many female soldiers have more to fear from their own sqad than from the enemy.
Where’s the morality in all of that GEn Pace.
March 12th, 2007 at 10:00 pmShane
March 12th, 2007 at 10:00 pmBut they don’t mind when male soldiers force female soldiers to have sex. That’s ok.
Peter Pace is a poor excuse for a man, let alone a soldier. As a “leader” of men, well let’s just say: Mary, Mary, quite contrary…
March 12th, 2007 at 10:02 pmPersonally, I do believe Gen.Pace is gay. Always have thought it. Can’t technically says it’s my gaydar but you just know.
I always wonder about those who rant against gays. If they are so emotionally invested in the issue of homosexuality they just might need to open the closet. Actual heterosexual males don’t really care.
March 12th, 2007 at 10:07 pmCongress must also ask for this zealots Retirement! He has no place in our military.
March 12th, 2007 at 10:07 pmI heard on CNN tonight that the DC Madame is offering her client list to the highest bidder. She said she will sell it to a respectible news organization. I don’t think any news org has bought it at this point, but one will, I’d think. NOW we’ll see who’s “moral” and who’s not.
March 12th, 2007 at 10:08 pmSometimes you can’t keep a good song down….:
but thats not what I came to tell you about.
Came to talk about the draft.
They got a building down New York City, it’s called Whitehall Street,
where you walk in, you get injected, inspected, detected, infected,
neglected and selected. I went down to get my physical examination one day, and I walked in, I sat down, got good and drunk the night before, so I looked and felt my best when I went in that morning. `Cause I wanted to look like the all-American kid from New York City, man I wanted, I wanted to feel like the all-, I wanted to be the all American kid from New York, and I walked in, sat down, I was hung down, brung down, hung up, and all kinds o’ mean nasty ugly things. And I waked in and sat down and they gave me a piece of paper, said, “Kid, see the phsychiatrist, room 604.” And I went up there, I said, “Shrink, I want to kill. I mean, I wanna, I wanna kill. Kill. I wanna, I wanna see, I wanna see blood and gore and guts and veins in my teeth. Eat dead burnt bodies. I mean kill, Kill, KILL, KILL.” And I started jumpin up and down yelling, “KILL, KILL,” and he started jumpin up and down with me and we was both jumping up and down yelling, “KILL, KILL.” And the sargent came over, pinned a medal on me, sent me down the hall, said, “You’re our boy.” Didn’t feel too good about it.
Proceeded on down the hall gettin more injections, inspections,
detections, neglections and all kinds of stuff that they was doin’ to me
at the thing there, and I was there for two hours, three hours, four
hours, I was there for a long time going through all kinds of mean nasty ugly things and I was just having a tough time there, and they was inspecting, injecting every single part of me, and they was leaving no part untouched. Proceeded through, and when I finally came to the see the last man, I walked in, walked in sat down after a whole big thing there, and I walked up and said, “What do you want?” He said, “Kid, we only got one question. Have you ever been arrested?”
And I proceeded to tell him the story of the Alice’s Restaurant Massacre, with full orchestration and five part harmony and stuff like that and all the phenome… – and he stopped me right there and said, “Kid, did you ever go to court?” And I proceeded to tell him the story of the twenty seven eight-by-ten colour glossy pictures with the circles and arrows and the paragraph on the back of each one, and he stopped me right there and said, “Kid, I want you to go and sit down on that bench that says Group W …. NOW kid!!” And I, I walked over to the, to the bench there, and there is, Group W’s where they put you if you may not be moral enough to join the army after committing your special crime, and there was all kinds of mean nasty ugly looking people on the bench there. Mother rapers. Father stabbers. Father rapers! Father rapers sitting right there on the bench next to me! And
they was mean and nasty and ugly and horrible crime-type guys sitting on the bench next to me. And the meanest, ugliest, nastiest one, the meanest father raper of them all, was coming over to me and he was mean ‘n’ ugly ‘n’ nasty ‘n’ horrible and all kind of things and he sat down next to me and said, “Kid, whad’ya get?” I said, “I didn’t get nothing, I had to pay $50 and pick up the garbage.” He said, “What were you arrested for, kid?” And I said, “Littering.” And they all moved away from me on the bench there, and the hairy eyeball and all kinds of mean nasty things, till I said, “And creating a nuisance.” And they all came back, shook my hand, and we had a great time on the bench, talkin about crime, mother stabbing, father raping, all kinds of groovy things that we was talking about on the bench. And everything was fine, we was smoking cigarettes and all kinds of things, until the Sargeant came over, had some paper in his hand, held it up and said.
“Kids, this-piece-of-paper’s-got-47-words-37-sentences-58-words-we- wanna-know-details-of-the-crime-time-of-the-crime-and-any-other- kind-of-thing-you-gotta-say-pertaining-to-and-about-the-crime-I- want-to-know-arresting-officer’s-name-and-any-other-kind-of-thing-
you-gotta-say”, and talked for forty-five minutes and nobody understood a word that he said, but we had fun filling out the forms and playing with the pencils on the bench there, and I filled out the massacre with the four part harmony, and wrote it down there, just like it was, and everything was fine and I put down the pencil, and I turned over the piece of paper, and there, there on the other side, in the middle of the other side, away from everything else on the other side, in parentheses, capital letters, quotated, read the following words:
(”KID, HAVE YOU REHABILITATED YOURSELF?”)
I went over to the sargent, said, “Sargeant, you got a lot a damn gall to ask me if I’ve rehabilitated myself, I mean, I mean, I mean that just, I’m sittin’ here on the bench, I mean I’m sittin here on the Group W bench ’cause you want to know if I’m moral enough join the army, burn women, kids, houses and villages after bein’ a litterbug.” He looked at me and said, “Kid, we don’t like your kind, and we’re gonna send you fingerprints off to Washington.”
Cheers,
March 12th, 2007 at 10:12 pmHow can a General who helps kill thousands of Iraqs talk about morality? At least we know he’s not a “good Christian”. A good hypocrite maybe.
March 12th, 2007 at 10:19 pm[...] Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman General Peter Pace, 3/12/07, on why he supports the military’s discriminatory “Don’t Ask Don’t [...]
March 12th, 2007 at 10:25 pmHypocritical sack of crap. He needs to be fired.
March 12th, 2007 at 10:31 pmImmoral: def. Sending kids off to die in an illegal and unjustified war of choice by leaders dreaming of world conquest.
March 12th, 2007 at 10:31 pmAny bets as to whether or not Pace is gay?
March 12th, 2007 at 10:38 pmWonder how Corporal Matt Sanchez feels about this?
March 12th, 2007 at 10:43 pmWell, we can see what their up to. It’s alway’s the same they (reich) are doing this to rile all of us up and keep our mind’s and attention off of a ll the lie’s killing of our troop’s and looting our country….These guy’s play christian and know we will get pissed off for their eternal fight against any civil right’s….They like this one (gay, lesbian) bashing best so they can add lot’s of bible thumping and “evil progressive” or “libral democrat” names to it…. Peter Pace, get stuffed…
March 12th, 2007 at 10:50 pmSo Burt Lancaster would’ve been in really big trouble if Pace had been in command in “From Here To Eternity”?
March 12th, 2007 at 10:53 pmHmm, immoral. I suppose brainwashing men and women to die for no cause is moral. As an openly gay veteran soldier of 9 years, the only thing immoral I saw was a lack of unbiased, uncorrupt, fair leadership. The straight soldiers who fought along side me knew and loved me for being honest with them about it. They all became my closest friends. It’s just too bad that we were all trained to keep secrets from our own country.
March 12th, 2007 at 10:59 pmBut they don’t mind when male soldiers force female soldiers to have sex. That’s ok.
Comment by ChildrenofLir — March 12, 2007 @ 10:00 pm
No because to them women aren’t equal anyway. Do you notice how he said “military members who sleep with other military members’ wives.â€
March 12th, 2007 at 11:16 pmHe didn’t say spouses did the dickhead. To him women in the military must be playthings.
And who’s in prison for Abu Graib (sic) Ms. Lindsey England.
Top U.S. General Calls Homosexuality ‘Immoral,’ Compares To Adultery.
This is 1984-Speak. A general opining on the morality of homosexuality when it is his career choice to perform the most immoral act of all.
War, and the killing of another human being. In his particular case, close to a million, but yet he is George Bush’s faithful minion. He is as guilty as Bush and in cahoots just as thick.
1984-Speak.. “War is moral and manly, homosexuality is not moral and manly.”
March 12th, 2007 at 11:54 pm1984-Speak
BushSpeak: “You cannot be a good American and a patriot for America if you have a bad case of “the gays,” the two just don’t mix”
March 12th, 2007 at 11:59 pm1984-Speak.. “War is moral and manly, homosexuality is not moral and manly.â€
Hopefully this will awaken the Republican gay community members into considering who is their best ally in this country, then it’s on to the WH hands down by a landslide in 2008.
March 13th, 2007 at 12:03 amYeah, you know, we wouldn’t want the military, which makes it’s living as hired killers, to somehow cheapen itself any further.
Hilarious.
March 13th, 2007 at 12:52 am[...] and why it has no place in the military, at least not openly. ThinkProgress has posted the audio of the interview and also the transcript, and AMERICAblog’s commentary on this subject seems [...]
March 13th, 2007 at 12:56 ami wonder what he calls a military that goes to war based on lies and that their leader claims god told him to go to war. oh, when god tells you to do something, it is no longer immoral to kill even though that same god states thou shalt not kill. amazing
March 13th, 2007 at 1:10 amWe have time for the side bar at another time. The more important question sir. Is this illegal war immoral?
March 13th, 2007 at 1:15 amAnd without a military, where do you suppose you would be? You certainly wouldn’t have the freedom to post on this site.
March 13th, 2007 at 1:49 amAnd without a military, where do you suppose you would be? You certainly wouldn’t have the freedom to post on this site. Comment by Mike — March 13, 2007 @ 1:49 am
Oh please, that’s such a st*pid old strawman. A military doesn’t protect the liberties of a nation – they protect the nation. The constitution, the law, the press, and the people that live here protect us and our freedoms you dum bass.
The military of nations are the single biggest source of destructions in those nations around the world. Or were you too st*pid to know this. Even our founding fathers spoke cautiously and with fear about a *standing-army* for this reason.
You’re great proof for how bad the education system has gotten, you ignorant fool.
March 13th, 2007 at 1:56 ammmmm, somebody is craving c*ck.
You certainly wouldn’t have the freedom to post on this site.
Comment by Mike
Yeah, I just called the military guy from his military post in the corner and ask him if he could watch over me while I used internet. He said ok. Tomorrow I will ask him to go to work with me and walk the dog. You never know these days if it wasnt for the military that protects my liberties. Ahhhh, I am so stupid.
March 13th, 2007 at 2:03 amWhy the election in 2000 and 2004 was lost. Quite simply the Democratic ticket didn’t get the full support it
needed because the “fringe groups” Nader, Greens, Kucinich et al, their “outsourced vote” was enough to tip
the balance both times and now we are stuck with this Iraq mess and a mess at home too.
You “fringe” supporters had best buck up and decide if you want a Republican or a BONAFIDE “SUREFIRE”
WINNER IN A DEMOCRAT next time in 2008.
“En Masse Unity” is what will be required in 2008 to bring this whole house of cards down forever.
In other words, stop “stealing” the election FOR THEM!
Vote Democrat
March 13th, 2007 at 2:08 amPace is a dysfunctional General who is a Bush butt kisser. Weird thing is that he hates Gays, but Bush is one of those guys cheating on his wife having paid sex with Jeff Gannon a male hooker. Will Pace call for Sanchez the porn star/hooker to be discharged from the Marines? Or since he is a GOPer whose clients were closeted officers, like Pace, he is OK?!
March 13th, 2007 at 2:53 amDoes Shotgun Dick know that Pace thinks his daughter is immoral? Will Lynne now go on Fox and rag on Pace for asserting that her daughter engages in immoral acts? Let’s see a little consistency, for God’s sake.
March 13th, 2007 at 3:01 amYou know this guy just opened himself up for all kinds of tell all books and claims for every jar head and hooker he bent over and sodomized. lol
March 13th, 2007 at 3:39 amThat reminds me of a movie: American Beauty :)
March 13th, 2007 at 4:47 amUS citizens who believe homosexuality is immoral are suddenly a bigoted minority?
March 13th, 2007 at 7:48 amThat would be news in itself wouldn’t it? When did this happen?
sweet Christian warrior
March 13th, 2007 at 7:49 amIs Pace going to comment on Gingrinch’s Infidelity?
March 13th, 2007 at 8:32 amDid a war pig just declare something else as immoral? Disco’s out; murder’s in …just more support for the idea that violence in America is A-ok but anything to do with sexuality is bad bad bad mmmmkay
March 13th, 2007 at 8:56 amAwww Rachel…you’re so cute when you copy and paste :)
March 13th, 2007 at 8:58 am#54 those bigots are no minority.
March 13th, 2007 at 8:59 amHomosexuality may be a RELIGIOUS immorality to some, so they should not engage in homosexual acts. But I have asked many people to give me some proof that homosexuality is a SECULAR immorality that warrants any societal action against those who engage in homosexual acts. I have yet to have any response. Any takers?
March 13th, 2007 at 9:18 amWhy aren’t you all criticizing Sharia? This guy is an American. He’s on your team. He isn’t talking about punishing, torturing, or subjecting gays to the death penalty. As a matter of fact, he’s leading troops who are fighting AGAINST our enemy (Islam) – which does support punishing, torturing, or subjecting gays to the death penalty…Do you hate this administration so much that you are willing to hang yourselves?
Half the country voted for Bill and Hillary, so I guess you are that stupid.
March 13th, 2007 at 9:18 amDoes this mean, then, that it is not adultery if one of the military members sleeps with other military members husbands�? Just trying to get square on your thinking General.
Comment by Curlew — March 12, 2007 @ 9:21 pm
Nope, still adultery.
UCMJ Art. 134
(1) That the accused wrongfully had sexual intercourse with a certain person;
(2) That, at the time, the accused or the other person was married to someone else; and
(3) That, under the circumstances, the conduct of the accused was to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces or was of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces.
Leviticus 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
Calling someone immoral is bearing a grudge, isn’t it?
Comment by Jeff — March 12, 2007 @ 9:30 pm
Jeff, using your argument:
So, I guess they cancel each other out.
Oh, what about military husbands? What about non-military people? Peter “Principle†Pace, indeed.
Comment by Badmoodman — March 12, 2007 @ 9:39 pm
Still adultery
What does Gen Pace have to say about the 90% of female soldiers reporting that they have been sexually harrassed in the military.
Comment by ChildrenofLir — March 12, 2007 @ 10:00 pm
Please show me where you got this statistic.
Comment by ValiantVenusGrewFromUranus — March 13, 2007 @ 1:56 am
When was the last time the Constitution picked up a rifle? Without a military to defend it, it means nothing.
March 13th, 2007 at 9:25 amI presume the comments by Gen. Pace were vetted by the Whitehouse. Republicans are in trouble so it is time to play the hate card as the fear card is running out of steam and Gen. Pace has always been more than willing to parrot the Whitehouse talking points.
March 13th, 2007 at 10:00 amWell said General! Truth to the left is as a cross to a vampire.
March 13th, 2007 at 10:01 amOne aspect of adulthood is taking responsibility for one’s opinions. After attaining a certain age, persons are assumed to have some introspection. General Peter Pace has his personal views on infidelity and homosexuality, but he qualifies them by saying that’s the way in which he was raised. He is 62 years old and he is still holding his parents responsibile for the way he thinks.
March 13th, 2007 at 10:14 amOK, Peter…
Now, how about the 90% of women members of the armed services who say they are targets of sexual harassment?
And how about the 70% of women members of the armed services who have been victims of sexual assault?
And how about the women in uniform who have been raped and even murdered, and had their cases covered up and denied, and have been punished for trying to get justice?
Anyone interested in the gory details of this sad state of affairs, listen to the archived radio program of Democracy Now, on National Public Radio. This program aired on the International Day of the Woman, a week or so ago…
March 13th, 2007 at 10:24 amObviously he had excellent parents.
March 13th, 2007 at 10:27 am[...] Servicemembers Legal Defense Network on Gen. Pace’s statement that homosexuality is “immoral“: “Our men and women in uniform make tremendous sacrifices for our country, and deserve [...]
March 13th, 2007 at 10:27 amNow, how about the 90% of women members of the armed services who say they are targets of sexual harassment?
And how about the 70% of women members of the armed services who have been victims of sexual assault?
Comment by Raven — March 13, 2007 @ 10:24 am
Please show me where you got these stats.
March 13th, 2007 at 10:28 amI did. Please refer to the second paragraph of my post (the one you neglected to paste into your post…)
March 13th, 2007 at 10:33 amI don’t get republican values – it’s not ok to sleep with someone you’re in love with (a mutual consenting adult) but you’re encouraged to perform and cover up sex acts with siblings, alter boys, and farm animals. I just don’t get the conservative repression agenda.
March 13th, 2007 at 10:45 amRaven, I only posted that stats part of your post so you would know what I was talking about.
Here is another article claiming 30% of women in the military being victims of rape (and yes, that is 30% of women that do not deserve to be victims)
The only reason I wanted to know the source and to be able to evaluate the source is so I can use it as a training tool later. I do no’t care if it is only .001% of women being victims, in or out of the military, it is too many and should not be tollerated.
March 13th, 2007 at 10:49 amPerhaps this General could start performing a half-arse job running this war rather than trying to be a social engineer and dictate other peoples values to them.
March 13th, 2007 at 10:49 amya right, and when the neocon elite make gay orgies and make parties simulating pagan rituals in the bohemian grove they are not phreaks, they are just “releasing steam”.
March 13th, 2007 at 10:51 amHe was asked a question and he answered it truthfully. He wasn’t dictating anything. To the left speaking the truth is now called dictatorship. Pathetic.
March 13th, 2007 at 10:53 amRupublicunts won’t be happy until this country is a Theocracy that parallels the Islamic fundamentalist in method. This might be ok with you religious folks until the day comes when they try to tell you how you’re going to worship their god their way. If you want a theocracy, go back to Europe Rpublicunts.
March 13th, 2007 at 10:56 amNot a dictatorship; who are you citing?! lol
It’s just rather moronic to have a warpig general dictate his version of morality. Maybe the sissy should try to, oh I don’t know, run this war rather than dictate morality. Maybe he should have been a priest.
March 13th, 2007 at 10:57 am“Why did Jesus say if you are free of sin may you cast the first stone? Is Pace free of sin or do they just ignore Jesus preaching”
Jesus didn’t want a woman stoned for her sin. He didn’t deny her sin, he forgave it and told her to go and sin no more.
“Does this mean, then, that it is not adultery if one of the military members sleeps with other military members husbandsâ€?? Just trying to get square on your thinking General.”
That is adultery also. The General didn’t realize he had to be sure to list every single possible combination that constitues adultery in order to use the word. Of course, most people don’t address every possible definition of every word we use everytime we speak.
“Personally, I do believe Gen.Pace is gay. Always have thought it. ”
I’ve never seen any evidence that he is gay. However, if he was, and didn’t act upon it, he hasn’t commited the sin. He would only need forgiveness for unclean thoughts.
“Calling someone immoral is bearing a grudge, isn’t it?”
No it isn’t. He isn’t speaking about something someone did once and continuing to hold it against them. He is referring to ongoing, repeated behavior.
“Gen Pace would probably not find this behavior immoral.
“Israel has recalled its ambassador to El Salvador after police found him on the streets of the capital blind drunk and wearing nothing but bondage gear, a foreign ministry official said on Monday.â€
I believe he would find that behavior immoral.
“1) I wonder if killing people who have not harmed us is immoral?
2) Are illegal wars immoral?
3) Collateral damage immoral ?
4) Holding people for years wihtout trial immoral?
5) Torture Immoral?
6) Kidnapping people from one country and sending them off to other countries to be interrogated by torture immoral?
7) Lying to the people of a country to get them into an endless war Immoral?
8) War profiteering Immoral?”
Just because progressives continously say the war is illegal doesn’t make it so. There is nothing illegal in the way this war started. There is a difference between lying about a situation and having been given incorrect information. Also, there is the little fact that we know Iraq previously had WMD and never proved, before the threat of invasion, that they had gotten rid of them. Of course, they got rid of many of them years ago by using them on the Kurds, their own people, by the way. Would you release prisoners taken in battle so they could try again to kill more of our troops? Should those being detained, who were members of Hussein’s killing squads, not be held until the Iraqi’s can deal with them? Let the mass murders go back into their society, is that what you are saying? Easy for you to say living here in a country where your freedoms are protected by a constitution backed up by a strong military and local police. Iraq also has a constitution, but I doubt that the INNOCENT people there feel very free or safe. And it isn’t our people killing the INNOCENT Iraqi’s by the way. At least some of the people involved in torture have been convicted, though some here apparently don’t want any punished until all are punished. Does that also apply to murderers, child molestors and thieves in the U.S.? Don’t punish any of them until we catch everyone of them?
“But they don’t mind when male soldiers force female soldiers to have sex. That’s ok.”
No it isn’t ok, but he wasn’t addressing that issue in this case. He wasn’t addressing every single possible problem in the military, only one issue.
“Oh please, that’s such a st*pid old strawman.”
It’s interesting that S-P’s use the strawman label so often when most of the threads on this site are filled with comments that don’t address the issue (see above examples).
I believe adultery is immoral, but I don’t believe gays should be excluded from the military. I believe anyone should be allowed to serve as long as their sexual behavior isn’t a problem for the service. Anyone whose behavior, sexual and otherwise, is disruptive to the service should be subject to discharge without all the garbage that is involved with firing a trouble maker in other areas of government and the private sector.
March 13th, 2007 at 11:06 amLeft-handers shouldn’t be allowed to serve in the military. For centries in many many cultures, left-handedness is a sign of evil, sinister-intent, and general immorality. We can’t morally allow those immoral left-handed bastards to serve in the military, because the general said so and we all know the general is the absolute authority over morality.
Next, we’ll get to all those football players and football game watchers -they’re not allowed to serve in the military either. It says right in the bible not to touch pig skin (same book as the gay comment) yet football games continue weekly during some parts of the year. So these groups should be outlawed from serving…it’s clearly spoken about by the Lord in the Bible!
Next would be all those heretic bastards who are NOT sacrificing and mutilating animals as God instructs us to do in the same exact book with the gay comment. These heretics should never be allowed to serve either. Anyone not doing God’s will such as mutilating these animal corpses should not only not be allowed to serve, they should be rounded up and executed!
Praise Jesus!
March 13th, 2007 at 11:20 amPatrick1, you screw pigs buddy; I’m afraid you have no credibility when it comes to matters of sexuality.
March 13th, 2007 at 11:22 am“I don’t get republican values – it’s not ok to sleep with someone you’re in love with (a mutual consenting adult) but you’re encouraged to perform and cover up sex acts with siblings, alter boys, and farm animals. I just don’t get the conservative repression agenda.”
Once again, deviant behavior is just as prevalent, probably more so, among lefties. How about trying to stick to the issue for a change.
“Left-handers shouldn’t be allowed to serve in the military. For centries in many many cultures, left-handedness is a sign of evil, sinister-intent, and general immorality. We can’t morally allow those immoral left-handed bastards to serve in the military, because the general said so and we all know the general is the absolute authority over morality.
Next, we’ll get to all those football players and football game watchers -they’re not allowed to serve in the military either. It says right in the bible not to touch pig skin (same book as the gay comment) yet football games continue weekly during some parts of the year. So these groups should be outlawed from serving…it’s clearly spoken about by the Lord in the Bible!
Next would be all those heretic bastards who are NOT sacrificing and mutilating animals as God instructs us to do in the same exact book with the gay comment. These heretics should never be allowed to serve either. Anyone not doing God’s will such as mutilating these animal corpses should not only not be allowed to serve, they should be rounded up and executed!”
And this contributes to the discussion how? I don’t remember foolish, sarcasm being one of the rules of good debate.
March 13th, 2007 at 11:34 amReverAnd Jim Baker:
Only though correct spelling can you feign intelligence.
Is a person bigoted to disagree with a necrophiliac’s view of morality? How about disagreeing with a murderer?
Modus Poens does not work in your case. Southpaws, sportsfans and heretics are not the same as homosexuals, and regardless of your intent, you cannot make a valid comparison.
Go ask mommy to change your diaper.
March 13th, 2007 at 11:40 am[...] remarks by Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Gen. Peter Pace calling homosexuality “immoral” and comparing it to [...]
March 13th, 2007 at 12:48 pmGen. Pace Not Down with Military Gays…
In an interview in yesterday’s Chicago Tribune, General Peter Pace, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said that homosexuality is immoral and gays should not be allowed to serve openly in the military.
March 13th, 2007 at 12:50 pmI believe homosexual acts between tw…
I’m just followon dat der Bible …you see…I’m not a cafeteria Christian like those conservative wanna bees; I follow the entire book …not just the parts I pick and choose :J)
March 13th, 2007 at 12:52 pm“And this contributes to the discussion how? I don’t remember foolish, sarcasm being one of the rules of good debate.”
This is neither a discussion nor a debate. Follow the rule, the whole rule, and nothing but the rule of God or you burn in Hell! Hate gays with Jesus but at least be consistent; hate football and hate those who do not sacrifice animals as it commands in Lev. :)
And if you don’t like tongue-in-cheek postings, then, I’m sorry; it’s your problem :) Lighten up.
March 13th, 2007 at 12:55 pm“Only though correct spelling can you feign intelligence.”
So tongue-in-cheek representations escape you ay? “Only by pointing out spelling errors makes you persuasive :)”
“Is a person bigoted to disagree with a necrophiliac’s view of morality? How about disagreeing with a murderer?”
Since when is necrophelia a mutual agreement between two people? And why would it be a failing general’s place to voice his opinion regardless?
Surely you’re not equivocating homosexuality and sex with the dead? Equating murder with homosexuality now? Why would you need to demonize people to make yourself feel superior?
Bottom line, the dear general needs to focus on winning that war, not dictating his morality on anyone else, especially in the work place. Preach to his own kids.
“Modus Poens does not work in your case. Southpaws, sportsfans and heretics are not the same as homosexuals, and regardless of your intent, you cannot make a valid comparison.”
Ah but they are all dealt with in the same book of the Bible. If you’re going to condemn homosexuality because God declares it wrong in the OT, then you should be consistent and follow the rest of the rules in the very same book, don’t you think? That’s the point. I wasn’t really comparing them. If you just pick the rules you like then you are a Cafeteria Christian.
“Go ask mommy to change your diaper”
Oh you bring out the big philosophy words but then turn and commit one of the best known fallacies: an ad hom – c’mon suzie – you can do better. What – did you show up for the first class but slept through the rest at community college? I mean really, is that the best you could do?
March 13th, 2007 at 1:04 pmI don’t find that the Chairman of the Joint Chifs has any place commenting on whether anything is immoral. He is a trained military officer, who is committed to following the law of the land, inspite of his personal views. To make such a comment is hypocritical, inappropriate and illogical. How can he logically say, without impuning his own veracity, that he truly supports a law that protects people he considers “immoral”. I find that very hypocritical.
Hmmmm…..I don’t recall Gen Pace commenting on the morality of the Abu Grahib incident…..or the lack of medical treatment for the soldiers, sailors and airmen that have been sent into battle and have been seriously injured. I think Gen. Pace’s priorities are a bit out-of-line.
How can Gen Pace morally or logically agree with the policy of allowing “Moral Waivers” to qualify people to enter the military. Maybe the solution is to include gays under THIS policy.
March 13th, 2007 at 2:26 pm“This is neither a discussion nor a debate. Follow the rule, the whole rule, and nothing but the rule of God or you burn in Hell! Hate gays with Jesus but at least be consistent; hate football and hate those who do not sacrifice animals as it commands in Lev. :)”
A good pastor can explain to you why we no longer need follow most of the rituals from the Old Testament. I won’t go into detail here because few here really want to know. Suffice to say we live under a new covenant because Jesus died for our sins; no more sacrifice is needed.
“I don’t find that the Chairman of the Joint Chifs has any place commenting on whether anything is immoral. He is a trained military officer, who is committed to following the law of the land, inspite of his personal views. To make such a comment is hypocritical, inappropriate and illogical. How can he logically say, without impuning his own veracity, that he truly supports a law that protects people he considers “immoralâ€. I find that very hypocritical.”
I believe you will find that most military leaders like Pace believe morality has a very big place in the military. He came of age in a time when homosexuality was commonly rejected. You can’t blame him for that. You can, however, question whether a different policy should exist today. Many people still believe that homosexuality is morally wrong, but have no desire for our government to try to police it. Don’t ask, don’t tell isn’t hypocritical. It allows for gays to serve if they choose. It just keeps the acknowledgement that our society is divided on whether homosexuallity is wrong or not.
“Hmmmm…..I don’t recall Gen Pace commenting on the morality of the Abu Grahib incident…..or the lack of medical treatment for the soldiers, sailors and airmen that have been sent into battle and have been seriously injured. I think Gen. Pace’s priorities are a bit out-of-line.”
Once again, he wasn’t addressing these issues at the time. We have no idea what his opinions are on these issues because he wasn’t addressing these issues.
March 13th, 2007 at 4:02 pm#68 hacker Bob
March 13th, 2007 at 6:09 pmI back up Raven in her report of sexual harrassment of female soldiers by their fellow comrades in arms. I did not hear it on NPR either — I wish I could remember on which news program it was reported. But I recall explicitly that female soldiers do not go to the latrine alone at night for fear of attack. It was also given as the reason why females suffer dehydration in the heat of Iraq – they stop drinking water after certain hours, so as to avoid having to make a nighttime trip to pee.
WELL, Gen. Pace, YA JUST CALLED YER BOSS CHIMPya, Torticola Cheney, Karl Miss Piggy Rove, Inquisitor General Alberto VO5 Gonzales, Trent Lott, David Drier, & Rick Perry, Charlie Crist and Linda Lingle(Govs. of Texas, Florida and Hawaii), 9/10ths of all of the repugnant-repub rightwingnut crank fudge-pachyderms in congress and Bushland Uber Allies “IMMORAL ADULTERERS”–WOULD YOU CARE TO EXPLAIN YOURSELF, HMMMMMMMMM? BY THE WAY, Pace, DIDN’T I SEE YOU MAKING A PASS AT THAT HANDSOME SGT. AND GROPE HIM IN THE MENS’ SHOWERS? I HAVE THE PHOTOS!!!!!
March 13th, 2007 at 9:51 pm[...] personal commitment to moral principles.” Earlier this week, Pace called homosexuality “immoral” and compared it to adultery. 4:41 pm | [...]
March 14th, 2007 at 4:41 pm[...] left smear site [Don’t] Think Progress in Anatomy of a Smear. Naturally they mischaracterized General Pace’s original comments in an earlier post in an attempt to make a story out of nothing. Naturally the blogosphere went [...]
March 15th, 2007 at 11:15 pm[...] week, Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman Peter Pace compared homosexuality to adultery, calling it “immoral.” He later explained that he was expressing his “personal [...]
March 19th, 2007 at 10:09 am[...] Secretary Robert Gates said he would not ask Joint Chiefs Chairman Gen. Peter Pace to apologize for calling homosexuality “immoral” and comparing it to adultery,” saying “we should just move on from this [...]
March 19th, 2007 at 3:09 pm