Pace “clarifies” homosexuality remark.
By on Mar 13th, 2007 at 2:10 pm
Pace “clarifies” homosexuality remark.
“I should have focused more on my support of the policy and less on my personal moral views,” Gen. Peter Pace said in a statement. Also today, former Senate Armed Services Chairman John Warner (R-VA) said he “strongly disagree[s] with the chairman’s view that homosexuality is immoral.”
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We’re behind you all the way General! Don’t fag out on us!
March 13th, 2007 at 2:20 pmI should have focused more on my support of the policy and less on my personal moral views,†Gen. Peter Pace said in a statement.
Gee. Yah think so? I wonder if he will talk on if he thinks its immoral to worship a false god. If we get rid of those people then we will really have a great army. By the way is it moral to kill someone? Ya know. Point a gun at them and pull the trigger.
March 13th, 2007 at 2:22 pmI wonder if he will talk on if he thinks its immoral to worship a false god. If we get rid of those people then we will really have a great army. By the way is it moral to kill someone? Ya know. Point a gun at them and pull the trigger.
Comment by dlet — March 13, 2007 @ 2:22 pm
Is is moral of you to judge people????
March 13th, 2007 at 2:27 pmIs is moral of you to judge people????
Comment by hacker bob
Who’s judging? I was asking questions that I think a man who injects hi morals into his business decisions should be asked. Where did I judge him. And by the way the first sentence is not a judgement I was agreeing with conclusion. It would have been better for him…in a non-judgemental way.
March 13th, 2007 at 2:33 pmI know he was using fellacio to get ahead in his career. Have another star, General! Ya sho’ got a purty mouth!
March 13th, 2007 at 2:35 pmSo Gen. Pace’s only mistake was on the focus of his comments and not on the comments themselves. Now that is big of him.
Just the other day Dobson and others signed a letter stating that moral conservatives are losing focus and need to get back on message, i.e., gay bashing.
Right after that Gen. Pace is out on the stump gay bashing.
It looks like Dobson said jump and Bush said how high. Some moral leadership that is!
March 13th, 2007 at 2:39 pmYeah, we wouldn’t want the General officers setting a bad example for the junior officers, now would we.
March 13th, 2007 at 2:47 pmI mean if an atheist captain says he/she thinks praying to God for strength to kill is immoral, he/she’d be sacked in a heartbeat, right HkBobb>?
Judging others based solely on your own ignorance or superstitions should make one unfit to command US Troops. Not being smart enough to keep your personal prejudices private definitely makes you unfit.
March 13th, 2007 at 2:47 pmIs is moral of you to judge people????
Comment by hacker bob
Of course, it is moral.
Morality refers to the concept of human ethics which pertains to matters of right and wrong — also referred to as “good and evil” — used within three contexts: individual conscience; systems of principles and judgments — sometimes called moral values —shared within a cultural, religious, secular or philosophical community; and codes of behavior or conduct morality.
So Hitler shouldnt be judged by moral standards or Stalin or Bush? No, my God, how could we judge them?
March 13th, 2007 at 2:52 pmComment by RUCerious — March 13, 2007 @ 2:47 pm
Actually, My old boss was an Atheist and noone cared. He even asked the General “How do you know God is on our side, assuming there is a God.” No one cared. Not even the General. For that matter, not even the Chaplain.
You know my position, I could care less. Pace is entitled to his opinion, just as you are entitled to yours and Pelosi is entitled to hers. But remember, they are only opinions.
March 13th, 2007 at 2:57 pmComment by Juan C — March 13, 2007 @ 2:52 pm
Thank you Juan. So, Pace was right to judge homosexuals in the military. After all, the Military is a community with it’s own codes of behavior and moral values.
March 13th, 2007 at 3:01 pmJuan C was just put through Blender Bob and whoola….a totally different meaning to his words.
March 13th, 2007 at 3:08 pmI know I don’t care what my military Leaders personal feelings are. They should simply do there job and shut up. Of course believing my first statement would mean they would have to shut their mouth about all other personal views which this crowd wouldn’t like. I personally think we should welcome the homosexual community into the military as there isn’t anything wrong with it, but that is just my personal view now isn’t it.
March 13th, 2007 at 3:09 pmThank you Juan.
Comment by hacker bob
What did I do?
So, Pace was right to judge homosexuals in the military.
Nope. His morals are wrong if his reasons are wrong.
After all, the Military is a community with it’s own codes of behavior and moral values.
We all know what are the moral values of any military. (I put any so you or anyone dont jump on me as I criticize the moral values of an institution dedicated to kill people)
His morals are wrong, bob. I hope you could see it. He judges morally homosexuals becuz they pose
March 13th, 2007 at 3:12 pmHe should have paraphrased General Patton, “I won’t have cowards and sodomites in my army”.
March 13th, 2007 at 3:12 pmAfter all, the Military is a community with it’s own codes of behavior and moral values.
hacker bob —
And they are STILL beholing to the people that pay their salary. The taxpayer.
You make the military sound like an “untouchable nation” with diplomatic immunity at every turn.
Not the case. You work for ME, and don’t you ever forget it.
You are more “civilian vulnerable” than you may realize.
March 13th, 2007 at 3:14 pmThey should simply do there job and shut up.
Comment by Roger_Roger — March 13, 2007 @ 3:09 pm
Part of the job of military leaders is determiining policy for the military, right? So Pace is doing his job. Evaluating and helping to determine policy.
Comment by dlet — March 13, 2007 @ 3:08 pm
The point was, just as you have the right to judge Pace, he has the right to judge others.
Here is a really crazy idea: Why don’t we ask the people serving in the Military what they would prefer?
March 13th, 2007 at 3:15 pmHe judges morally homosexuals becuz they pose
Comment by Juan C
Duh! I forgot to erase that last sentence.
March 13th, 2007 at 3:17 pmThe point was, just as you have the right to judge Pace, he has the right to judge others.
Comment by hacker bob
Judge according to your personal/religious beliefs….sure.
Act on those beliefs in a work setting to persecute and intimidate because of those beliefs…..no way.
March 13th, 2007 at 3:19 pmAs a Vietnam-era veteran and a retired master sergeant of the Army, I have known many gay veterans who have come home from Vietnam in body bags.
March 13th, 2007 at 3:19 pmPace you A Hole what do you think of those soldiers that gave their life for this country? Oh by the way the as long as you can “KILL” your not immoral.
Tony
Comment by Juan C — March 13, 2007 @ 3:12 pm
Actually, Juan, it is only your opinion that says his morals are wrong. He comes from a different moral background.
You may consider me immoral for my occupation, but that does not make it so. I could (but don’t) consider you immoral for your beliefs and that would only be my opinion.
March 13th, 2007 at 3:21 pmBob, we can argue axiological values all day. The thing is that this person is in charge of a job where he is deciding, based on his beliefs, the lives of the ones who work with him. Morality is subjective… mmmm…sort of. But if your moral ideas say that it is ok to invade a country and kill civilians, then your moral ideas should say also that it is ok for an invading army to kill your family. Somehow, I think you wont find that “moral”.
March 13th, 2007 at 3:25 pmAct on those beliefs in a work setting to persecute and intimidate because of those beliefs…..no way.
Comment by dlet — March 13, 2007 @ 3:19 pm
So, those that say Pace should be fired are “trying to persecute and intimidate” him for voicing his personal/religious opinion.
March 13th, 2007 at 3:26 pmThis is a great way to get out of Iraq.
March 13th, 2007 at 3:28 pmAll of our military personnel should declare that they are gay.
Here is a really crazy idea: Why don’t we ask the people serving in the Military what they would prefer?
Comment by hacker bob
Because the “people in the military” have NO SAY above US Discrimination Law.
You seem to be forgetting again that “YOU WORK FOR THE US AND THEREFORE IT’S CITIZEN’S.”
It is AGAINST the SUPREME COURT LAW, yes the Supreme Court and “the law of the land” even trumps “military” wishes and hopes.
Amazing isn’t it?
This is designed this way to keep the military from “forming their own nation” as much as you seem to think that that is their(military’s) birthright hacker bob.
March 13th, 2007 at 3:29 pmThe thing is that this person is in charge of a job where he is deciding, based on his beliefs, the lives of the ones who work with him.
Comment by Juan C — March 13, 2007 @ 3:25 pm
Juan, you realize that Pace does not make the policy. The policy is incorporated into the UCMJ by the Congress.
Pace only can state his opinion on what he thinks the policy should be.
March 13th, 2007 at 3:30 pmHere is a really crazy idea: Why don’t we ask the people serving in the Military what they would prefer?
Comment by hacker bob
Because the “people in the military” have NO SAY above US Discrimination Law.
You seem to be forgetting again that “YOU WORK FOR THE US AND THEREFORE IT’S CITIZEN’S.”
It is AGAINST the SUPREME COURT LAW, yes the Supreme Court and “the law of the land” even trumps “military” wishes and hopes.
Amazing isn’t it?
This is designed this way to keep the military from “forming their own nation” as much as you seem to think that that is their(military’s) birthright hacker bob.
March 13th, 2007 at 3:31 pmSo, those that say Pace should be fired are “trying to persecute and intimidate†him for voicing his personal/religious opinion.
Comment by hacker bob
Okay there is a group of people (homosexuals) in the armed forces and that want to serve in the armed forces. A top man in th emilitary says that homosexuals are immoral and that a policy of harrassment and intimidation is okay within the armed forces.
Try putting that scenario in any business in the US and see what happens.
But you want to excuse this mans bigotry and hateful speech because he believes this through his religion. Talk about the perfect reason for the separation of church and state. The question is not his beliefs its how they are reflected and acted upon in his secular position.
March 13th, 2007 at 3:33 pmPace only can state his opinion on what he thinks the policy should be.
Comment by hacker bob
So he has a say in the subject. An important one. He is in charge of a platoon (sorry for my lack of knowledge about military vocabulary) that works for him where could possibly have gay people. He is deciding, based on personal beliefs, the lives of the ones who work around him.
March 13th, 2007 at 3:38 pmBut you want to excuse this mans bigotry and hateful speech because he believes this through his religion. Comment by dlet
No, because bob agrees with him.
March 13th, 2007 at 3:40 pmdlet,
After much stammering and hemming and hawwing about, that is EXACTLY what I was trying to say Dlet. I just didn’t know how.
Spot-On and a super post dlet.
March 13th, 2007 at 3:41 pmComment by dlet — March 13, 2007 @ 3:33 pm
Where did he approve of policy of harrassment and intimidation? He approved of a policy put into place by Congress, injected into the UCMJ by the Congress, and passed into law by the Congress and the President.
March 13th, 2007 at 3:44 pmU’d think that will all the shit going down in Iraq, chympie shrieking about Iran, that the honorable Gen Pace would have more important things to do with his mouth than have his foot stuck in it.
March 13th, 2007 at 3:46 pmJust sayin…
He is deciding, based on personal beliefs, the lives of the ones who work around him.
Comment by Juan C — March 13, 2007 @ 3:38 pm
Actually, he can only act within the authority granted by the UCMJ. That takes INDIVIDUAL morality out of the mix.
March 13th, 2007 at 3:47 pmNo, because bob agrees with him.
Comment by Juan C — March 13, 2007 @ 3:40 pm
Can you show me where the man does not have the right to be a bigot?
No, I do not agree with him, but I agree he has a right to his opinion and a right to voice his opinion. I have said time and again that I could care less about people that are gay serving openly. I have friends that have served and are currently serving that are gay.
March 13th, 2007 at 3:50 pmListen you lying, manipulative little c*nt.
The military discriminates all of the time. Diabetics can not join. People with missing limbs can not join. All these are violation of Discrimination laws. Do you not realize that you lying sack of s*it?
Remember, you stupid c*nt, the CONGRESS decides what articles are in the UCMJ, not the JCS. The JCS are only advisors.
Pull your head out of your a$$, quit playing on peoples sympathy, and grow up.
March 13th, 2007 at 3:50 pmComment by hacker bob — March 13, 2007 @ 2:57 pm:
“…Pace is entitled to his opinion, just as you are entitled to yours and Pelosi is entitled to hers. But remember, they are only opinions…”
So, according to you, Pace can publicly disagree with the nominal Commander in Chief, or publicly state that he believed that the CiC’s decision-making process was insane, and after having voiced those opinions, that he would go on serving in the military?
I don’t think so.
I don’t think that members of the military are allowed to state their private opinions publicly if those opinions are in conflict with military policy as set down by the CiC.
March 13th, 2007 at 3:53 pmActually, he can only act within the authority granted by the UCMJ. That takes INDIVIDUAL morality out of the mix.
Comment by hacker bob
Excused because he is only following orders. You really are in the Marine Corp. They washed that sense right outta yer brain.
You can’t take out the individual morality if the man gets in front of the microphone and proclaims that the policy is correct and that homos are immoral. I heard Pace speaking not anyone else.
March 13th, 2007 at 3:54 pmLibs, how about asking the Gay Rights group to apologize to our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. I know that he’s (Jesus) not pleased with their sexual acts.
March 13th, 2007 at 4:32 pmHacker Bob:
After the above post, I read the entire thread. I believe you should stop spinning before you puke.
Before you pull out the “military is sacrosanct” card, let me assure you that I support our troops, as do most Americans, but that military service does not confer on them a greater degree of citizenship, intelligence, patriotism, or superiority. Nor does it place them above the law.
Other than that, and as a completely tangential thought, I don’t think that the troops in Iraq are “defending” us. I think that they have been used to enrich the war profiteers, and have been rankly abused by those interests in the process (I can’t understand why they applaud their own abuse, but that’s a topic for another thread).
As for diabetics and amputees being discriminated against in the public sector, inability to do a job is not discrimination. For example, I am not required by law to hire a legless man for a job that requies climbing ladders. He can’t do the job. It’s that simple.
As for your comment regarding your ostensible acceptance of gays in the military, how do you square that with your call to let the military vote on it? Your statement would seem to imply that the military would vote them out (wink, wink, nod, nod). are you being honest with us regarding your beliefs?
Pace is a Republic Party lap dog. If he wasn’t, he wouldn’t have achieved his current rank. You know as well as I do that this admin rewards loyalty to the party above all else. Look at the generals who have retired seemingly for the sole reason of being able to voice their dissent against the policies of the neocons – yet Pace keeps his job.
Pace should be drummed out of the military without a pension.
March 13th, 2007 at 4:38 pmLibs, how about asking the Gay Rights group to apologize to our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. I know that he’s (Jesus) not pleased with their sexual acts.
Comment by Daryll
There’s one problem Daryll. He’s dead. And let’s, once again, revisit the sin of declaring that you know what your god is thinking. I believe its called blasphemy. Or does Jesus actually talk to you?
March 13th, 2007 at 4:45 pmComment by Daryll — March 13, 2007 @ 4:32 pm:
hey, D:
I was just talkin’ to Jesus. He told me he doesn’t know you, and that you should stop using him to make your points.
He also pointed out that he died for the sins of all men, and that includes gays (and fornicators, masterbators, theives, liars, murderers, and Osama bin Laden).
He wants to know just who th F*** you think you are.
March 13th, 2007 at 4:46 pmComment by smafdy — March 13, 2007 @ 4:38 pm
Actually, I think if it was left to a vote of the military members, they would probably vote to allow gay to serve openly.
Before you pull out the “military is sacrosanct†card, let me assure you that I support our troops, as do most Americans, but that military service does not confer on them a greater degree of citizenship, intelligence, patriotism, or superiority. Nor does it place them above the law.
But the military does have a separate set of regulations and laws that the civilian sector does not have. When was the last time your employer was notified because you got a speeding ticket? Not one on base, but out in town. OR when was the last time your employer was notified because had a bounced check?
As for diabetics and amputees being discriminated against in the public sector, inability to do a job is not discrimination. For example, I am not required by law to hire a legless man for a job that requires climbing ladders. He can’t do the job. It’s that simple.
Can a diabetic process payroll? Can a legless man cook, or be a network administrator? You use a week argument.
One thing everyone is losing site of. Pace was asked his OPINION in an interview. It was not on the floors of Congress. It was not in a meeting with the JCS.
The man is entitled to have an opinion, even if it is not one that you or I agree with. That is the reason that the Congress of the United States decides what the laws for the Military are, not the JCS.
March 13th, 2007 at 5:12 pmLibs, how about asking the Gay Rights group to apologize to our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. I know that he’s (Jesus) not pleased with their sexual acts. Comment by Daryll — March 13, 2007 @ 4:32 pm
Hearing those voices again in your head – closet case? Tell your doctor to up that dosage – your insanity quotient is overfilled again, sicko.
March 13th, 2007 at 5:29 pmCan you show me where the man does not have the right to be a bigot?Comment by hacker bob — March 13, 2007 @ 3:50 pm
He can be as big of a bigot as he wants, but there’s no place for him in a leadership position of the US Government (that’s where he is) with those attitudes of discrimination.
No, I do not agree with him, but I agree he has a right to his opinion and a right to voice his opinion. Comment by hacker bob — March 13, 2007 @ 3:50 pm
And we have a right to fire him for those opinions – as they prove he’s unsuited to wear the uniform of this country, as are those that defend his words.
I have said time and again that I could care less about people that are gay serving openly. I have friends that have served and are currently serving that are gay. Comment by hacker bob — March 13, 2007 @ 3:50 pm
Then you won’t mind if we purge bigots from the military? As it’s clear they’re more of a threat to cohesion and harmony than Gays are – by your own admission.
March 13th, 2007 at 5:34 pmhacker bob
Pace did not just voice an opinion. He gave an evaluation of homosexuals’ aptitude to serve in the military, declaring them unfit. As a military leader his opinions on military matters count and when he voices such declarations he has an obligation to prove that his opinion has merit and justifies policy. In a similar vein, as a psychologist, I am extremely careful not to make a comment on TP as an opinion that can be interpreted as a diagnosis of someone.
March 13th, 2007 at 6:01 pmbeing gay= immoral
blowing up grandmas = OK
nice morality there general
March 13th, 2007 at 6:03 pmIn a similar vein, as a psychologist, I am extremely careful not to make a comment on TP as an opinion that can be interpreted as a diagnosis of someone. Comment by PatrioticLiberalChristian(PLC) — March 13, 2007 @ 6:01 pm
That must be incredibly difficult for you at times. I admire your fortitude and willpower :)
March 13th, 2007 at 6:07 pmGoodddamit, why does Daryll only come out..heh, heh… on threads involving gay issues?
March 13th, 2007 at 6:07 pmThat must be incredibly difficult for you at times. I admire your fortitude and willpower :) Comment by ValiantVenusGrewFromUranus
Fortunately, “bigot”, “goddess wannabe”, “Christian Pharisee”, and “Dung_Dung” are not diagnostic terms. The English language is wonderful.
March 13th, 2007 at 6:10 pmHe has placed his personal and narrow morality meter in the arena and he should remove it.
March 13th, 2007 at 6:18 pmAs for immorality, he should be reminded that his morality meter should measure this illegal and immoral war of death and destruction.
Homosexuality is not immoral – he just doesn’t like it.
Killing of innocents in a war of choice is immoral on anybody’s morality meter.
He needs to understand the difference.
Hacker Bob,
Point taken: Everyone has a right to an opinion.
Unfortunately, his opinion was about the forces he commands. Unfortunately, his opinion referred to private, personal behavior in the context of “morality”.
Unfortunately, a person in his position should have the diplomacy and basic sense of protocol to avoid such idiotic opining – especially when the opinion proffered is bigoted and prejudicial.
As for the morals part, if he’s on such a high horse, does he think that soldiers who have sex outside the LEGAL bounds of marriage shouldn’t be able to serve?
He’s a bigot, a bully, a homophobe, and a loyal lap dog for his civilian masters. He is a danger to our Armed Forces.
March 13th, 2007 at 6:24 pmFortunately, “bigotâ€, “goddess wannabeâ€, “Christian Phariseeâ€, and “Dung_Dung†are not diagnostic terms. The English language is wonderful. Comment by PatrioticLiberalChristian(PLC) — March 13, 2007 @ 6:10 pm
Ah, how true! Although some of them one could argue are *symptoms* of those diagnostic terms. Very nice indeed!
March 13th, 2007 at 6:27 pmFinally! We have killing machines dishing out opinions on what is or isn’t moral!
March 13th, 2007 at 6:29 pmPace must be Gay…
March 13th, 2007 at 6:44 pmPace must be Gay…
Comment by Heynow — March 13, 2007 @ 6:44 pm
They usually are when they’re that homophobic. Yet another Haggard don’t-ask don’t-tell log cabin republican hypocrite. Sigh. It’s tiresomely predictable.
March 13th, 2007 at 7:03 pm#20 – Pace you A Hole what do you think of those soldiers that gave their life for this country? Oh by the way the as long as you can “KILL†your not immoral.
Comment by Tony
Well said, Tony.
Thank you for your service and your compassion.
March 13th, 2007 at 7:49 pm#54 He didn’t mention the 3 women who died from dehydration for fear of getting water at night because the ever-so-moral soldiers would rape them.
March 13th, 2007 at 10:35 pmHe didn’t mention the 3 women who died from dehydration for fear of getting water at night because the ever-so-moral soldiers would rape them.
Comment by JPark
Are you talking about military women?
March 13th, 2007 at 10:54 pm#59 Yup, soldiers. http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/57/17327
March 13th, 2007 at 11:08 pmI did misunderstand though. They were afraid they would have to go to the latrines late so they didn’t drink liquids after 3 or 4 in the afternoon. In fricking blazing Iraq.
March 13th, 2007 at 11:15 pmThanks for the link, JPark.
That is sick. Women in our own military damage their health or die because they are afraid of being raped by our own military men.
And then the military tries to cover it up.
Support the Troops.
Yeah, right.
March 14th, 2007 at 12:01 amPace REALLY DREADED ANOTHER SESSION OF “LEAPFROG” WITH CHIMPya, Cheney and Rove WITH Pace’s PANTS AROUND HIS ANKLES!!!!! THAT’S WHY HE TEMPERED HIS REMARKS!!!!!
March 14th, 2007 at 12:02 amSo basically, he’s saying “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” should extend to THOUGHTS, VIEWS, and OPINIONS on sexual orientations, rather than its current scope of limiting the inquiry on or discussion of actual implementation of said orientation.
March 14th, 2007 at 10:46 am[...] to adultery, calling it “immoral.” He later explained that he was expressing his “personal moral views.” But as Newsweek points out, in a 2005 speech on “Don’t Ask, Don’t [...]
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