Clinton, Obama: Homosexuality is not immoral.
Clinton, Obama: Homosexuality is not immoral.
In today’s Progress Report, we wrote, “Sens. Hillary Clinton (D-NY) and Barack Obama (D-IL), who both oppose ‘Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell’ and have otherwise taken strong stands on gay rights issues, refused at first to say that they disagreed that homosexuality is “immoral.” Asked by ABC News, Clinton said, “Well, I’m going to leave that to others to conclude.” Obama simply refused to answer the question after being asked several times.”
To her credit, Clinton has issued the following statement:
I have heard from many of my friends in the gay community that my response yesterday to a question about homosexuality being immoral sounded evasive. My intention was to focus the conversation on the failed don’t ask don’t tell policy. I should have echoed my colleague Senator John Warner’s statement forcefully stating that homosexuality is not immoral because that is what I believe.
UPDATE: From Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL):
As the New York Times reported today, I do not agree with General Pace that homosexuality is immoral. Attempts to divide people like this have consumed too much of our politics over the past six years.
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And Exley is vindicated again!
March 15th, 2007 at 3:13 pmJohn Edwards is looking more like my choice every day.
March 15th, 2007 at 3:16 pmHillary can you stand for something! Please!
March 15th, 2007 at 3:18 pmLike a frog on a hot rock, jumping here and there to find that “just right” political rock.
March 15th, 2007 at 3:18 pmDidn’t Gen. Pace state that he considered homosexual BEHAVIOR immoral, just as he does adultery (again BEHAVIOR among heterosexuals)?
March 15th, 2007 at 3:20 pmThis whole thing is absurd. Homosexuality isn’t a matter of morality. That implies that it’s a choice. By being so adamant about Clinton and Obama stating their position, you play into the right-wing belief that homosexual behavior is something that people decide to do, rather than a human condition that people are born into.
March 15th, 2007 at 3:22 pmThank you, Hillary Clinton for clearing up the confusion. Your position is much clearer now.
I still won’t vote for you.
March 15th, 2007 at 3:23 pmSometimes trying to control the subject of the conversation by sidestepping a direct question in favor of what you want to talk about can come back to bite you in the butt.
A better answer to the question might be: “I believe that there is nothing immoral about being the way God created you. If God created you with red hair, there is nothing immoral about having red hair, and if God created you gay, there is nothing immoral about being gay.” That’s the way I would answer it anyway (which may explain why I’m not a politician).
March 15th, 2007 at 3:24 pmthehim:
You are saying that homosexual behavior is NOT something that people decide to do?! Are you also saying that heterosexual rape is simply a human condition that people are born into?!
March 15th, 2007 at 3:26 pmWell, that’s encouraging news for tired old queens everywhere. I’m so glad to know that my chosen lifestyle is OK with the candidates.
March 15th, 2007 at 3:26 pm-heh-
lw,
March 15th, 2007 at 3:27 pmDo not mention god on this site they will rip u a new one.
#5- Snore………………………………………………………………………………..
March 15th, 2007 at 3:28 pmJake sez:
Oh, I see…It’s OK if you’re a homosexual….just as long as you never ever act upon your vile urges, right?
Jake, I realize that your role as a neocon shill necessitates that you ingest large quantities of STUPID, but this post, as well as your yammerings earlier today, lead me to suspect you might be suffering from an overdose. Contact your local Poison Control Center immediately. ^_^
March 15th, 2007 at 3:30 pmIn today’s Progress Report, we wrote, “Sens. Hillary Clinton (D-NY) and Barack Obama (D-IL), [...]
any other candidates out there?
March 15th, 2007 at 3:31 pmno one else has made a comment?
are you trying to make this a clinton vs obama run?
on purpose?
Walking the fence on the war and issuing statements about the morality of homosexuality. These are the actions of a politician that wants the voters to believe that she believes what they want from her. She’s not a flip-flopper but she acts like a wet rug.
March 15th, 2007 at 3:32 pmSo, out of all of the Democratic Senators who have spoken out against Pace for his remarks, Clinton quotes her Republican buddy John Warner.
Republican Lite
March 15th, 2007 at 3:34 pmI really was worried about her opinion.
March 15th, 2007 at 3:34 pmcurious what anyone thinks about this, please:
i did hear another opinion on the “dont ask†policy that i thought was intriguing…
this guy said he agreed with it because it kept the gays under cover and if they were open then, what? would they have to have their own dorm? if a guy wanted to live in quarters among other gays, whom he is attracted to, then why couldn’t a straight guy live among the females, that HE is attracted to ?… eh? …
i’m not saying i agree, but i thought that was an interesting point…
March 15th, 2007 at 3:34 pm…
OK, Gen Pace said iin his opinion homosexual acts were immoral. HE was called to task as he is the Chairman of the JCS for voicing his PERSONAL opinion. Even though her does not write the Articles of the UCMJ, Congress does.
Now, Sen. Clinton, a member of the Congress, who helps write the Articles of the UCMJ, voices her PERSONAL opinion saying that homosexuality is not immoral and no one has a problem wit that?
Does the arguement still hold true that she can not inject her personal opinions into the UCMJ, just as Gen Pace can not?
March 15th, 2007 at 3:34 pmThis answer assumes that other people believe in your glowing fairy man in the sky.
March 15th, 2007 at 3:35 pmhow fortunate that john warner was there to provide cover…
March 15th, 2007 at 3:35 pmHillary and Barack = empty suits.
March 15th, 2007 at 3:35 pm#9- Why do you persist in distorting the verbiage? You’re an idiot and a waste, intellectually and physically. If I thought you were saying anything important, I might try to have a discussion. But, it’s evident you’re either yanking my wank, or a common tool for the fascists. Either way, choke on it, you 75-year-old, Independent putz. I’d sooner believe you’re a 16-year-old with bad skin. Try some clearasil and night school, Jerk.
March 15th, 2007 at 3:35 pm#6 if that’s the case, why doesn’t she say that. just what you said. why, why, why.
March 15th, 2007 at 3:37 pm#9 Jake are you saying Hetrosexual behavior is Not something People decide to do?
March 15th, 2007 at 3:37 pmDoes the arguement still hold true that she can not inject her personal opinions into the UCMJ, just as Gen Pace can not?
Comment by hacker bob
That’s the whole point. You finally got it. Congrats.
March 15th, 2007 at 3:38 pmThat’s the whole point. You finally got it. Congrats.
Comment by dlet — March 15, 2007 @ 3:38 pm
Oh, I got it a long time ago. Her opinion is as valuable or as worthless as Pace’s.
March 15th, 2007 at 3:40 pmJake,
I’m just curious. When did you decide that you’d rather be hetero then homo?
Because if it’s a choice, you would have to have both tendencies, which would mean you have a little homosexuality inside, which may be dying to get out!
By the way, your heterosexual rape scenario is bogus
March 15th, 2007 at 3:41 pm1) rape is not about sex, it’s about power and domination
2) why phrase heterosexual rape? Is homosexual rape okay with you? If so, you’re one sick individual
3) Why would you compare the need to be loved, no matter what one’s sexuality is, to a violent act such as rape? You truly are sick, or at least need some sort of medicinal help.
You are saying that homosexual behavior is NOT something that people decide to do?! Are you also saying that heterosexual rape is simply a human condition that people are born into?!
Whoa!! Rape is a whole different ballgame there, sport! Rape is an act with a VICTIM. Homosexual behavior among consenting partners is an act WITHOUT a victim. If you can’t tell the difference, I probably can’t help you.
I could have phrased my comment a little better, but let me make it as clear as possible for you.
Homosexuality – not a choice
Homosexual behavior – a behavior that stems from homosexuality
Therefore, people who have sex with individuals of their own gender because that is their natural inclination or no more making a moral choice than when heterosexual couple have sex based upon their own natural inclination.
March 15th, 2007 at 3:47 pmWay to cave in Hillary. Jesus will not forget you. The Rapture is coming soon!
March 15th, 2007 at 3:48 pm#6 if that’s the case, why doesn’t she say that. just what you said. why, why, why.
I have no idea. I think part of it though, is because Hillary, along with many mainstream Democrats (and almost all Republicans) still believe that it’s the government’s role to dictate morality. It is not. It is only to safeguard the rights of those against others who wish to impose their own morality.
March 15th, 2007 at 3:52 pmDamn, Daryll, it took you 38 minutes to get here. Must be getting rusty.
Maybe you need toget your gaydar fixed…
March 15th, 2007 at 3:52 pmThe Rapture is coming soon!
Comment by Daryll
Um, Daryll….it’s not The Rapture, it’s The Crapture. and you’re in a heap of trouble. God told me a little while ago that he looked into your heart and mind, and he is f*cking pissed.
March 15th, 2007 at 3:55 pm#6 This whole thing is absurd. Homosexuality isn’t a matter of morality. That implies that it’s a choice. By being so adamant about Clinton and Obama stating their position, you play into the right-wing belief that homosexual behavior is something that people decide to do, rather than a human condition that people are born into.
Comment by thehim — March 15, 2007 @ 3:22 pm
Well put. As for #9 Jake, what in blazes are you talking about – what does one have to do with the other. Are you implying that homosexuality is predatory?
March 15th, 2007 at 3:55 pmWay to cave in Hillary. Jesus will not forget you. The Rapture is coming soon!
Comment by Performence Anxiety Daryll — March 15, 2007 @ 3:48 pm
Yeah, that whole forgive thingy that Jesus taught. I guess it doesn’t apply to Him, eh Saint Daryll?
March 15th, 2007 at 3:55 pmBy the way, I challenge you to respond to my post in the immorality thread.
The Rapture is coming soon!
Comment by Daryll
Rapture is a band formed in 1997 by a group of musicians from Helsinki, Finland. The members of Rapture have played in several bands, including Barathrum, Diablerie, Ensiferum, Finntroll, Fragile Hollow, The Mist and the Morning Dew, Rain Paint, Shape of Despair and Thy Serpent.
“Rapture paint with bleak shades yet with clarity second to none.
Oh my dog. How much are the tickets and where are they playing? They are my fav. See you there Daryll.
March 15th, 2007 at 3:56 pmDaryll,
Sorry to inform you, Jebus was found having gay sex with Dobson and Haggerd!
Jesus is a disease, not a cure.
March 15th, 2007 at 3:59 pmJohn Edwards is the man!
I’ve got a feeling that Hillary will be saying something different when she talks to a conservative audience.
March 15th, 2007 at 4:03 pmThey stumbled but eventually did the right thing. Good.
March 15th, 2007 at 4:04 pmDaryll, When the rapture comes you will still be stuck here on earth!
March 15th, 2007 at 4:06 pm“Do not mention god on this site they will rip u a new one.
Comment by Flaco — March 15, 2007 @ 3:27 pm”
Which god do you mean Falco?
March 15th, 2007 at 4:07 pmHey Darryll, here’s a suggestion. Why wait for the “Rapture”? Why not just kill yourself now and meet your “sky-fairy” sooner? :D
March 15th, 2007 at 4:08 pmOh my dog. How much are the tickets and where are they playing? They are my fav. See you there Daryll.
Comment by dlet
I was going to post the same thing!!! Well done.
Daryll, if Jesus is coming I want out.
March 15th, 2007 at 4:08 pmHey, Daryll,
The myth of the Rapture is just that…a myth. In fact, the Bible itself disproves it.
Sorry, Daryll…yout ‘Rapture’ is nothing more than a childish little escapist fantasy. If anything, it’s actually harmful to the Christian faith. You’re just going to have to slog it out with the rest of us.
March 15th, 2007 at 4:09 pmGod told me a little while ago that he looked into your heart and mind, and he is f*cking pissed.
Comment by Zooey
He must be reading this blog and laughing his ass off at Daryll.
March 15th, 2007 at 4:11 pmThe Rapture is coming soon!
Comment by Daryll
Daryll, please quote any scripture that has the word rapture in it.
I am betting you can’t.
March 15th, 2007 at 4:11 pmI don’t think believing homosexual acts are immoral equals bigotry. It also doesn’t preclude one from taking public policy positions that support the rights of gay people. Morality is a personal judgement, not a legal one. So one can certainly see homosexuality as sinful (I’m not saying he does) while still advocating for gays in the military, gay adoption rights, and even gay marriage. That said the general should have stuck with speaking about his thoughts on good order and discipline and making his case for leaving the policy the way it is. When you move into the realm of morality you are bound to get in trouble. Hearing about morality from my preacher….good….from my elected leaders….i have no interest.
March 15th, 2007 at 4:14 pmWhich god do you mean Falco?
Comment by Suzan Sommers
Probably Shango, yoruba god of thunder. Flaco is a very frightened man.
Why not just kill yourself now and meet your “sky-fairy†sooner? :D
March 15th, 2007 at 4:15 pmComment by not impressed with the U.S. —
Ha ha ha!!!
Well said, Jon.
March 15th, 2007 at 4:16 pmHearing about morality from my preacher….good….from my elected leaders….i have no interest.
Comment by jon
Hey, jon whats the difference between your preacher and your elected leaders? If morality is subjective why do you have to hear it from a preacher?
March 15th, 2007 at 4:22 pmjon
Exactly. Too many people think that “morality” only equates to religious rules.
March 15th, 2007 at 4:25 pmJuan…..mmmm not sure how to answer your question. There is a big difference in the two. There are things I expect from my church that I would never expect from my government. The standard for my church is the Bible (notice I said for my church)….the standard for my government is the Constitution. I prefer elected officials take their lead from the Constitution when it comes to establishing law and policy. I expect my Pastor to use the Bible. If he chooses not to then I can choose to go else where. I hope that answers your question. As a retired Army Officer I have long been for doing away with the ban from the strict belief that it is foolish to think that we were not serving with homosexuals and even when known unless the commander was on a hunt for them they often served without incident. I think the don’t ask don’t tell policy was a good compromise but may have outlived its time. That is another discussion though.
March 15th, 2007 at 4:29 pmThanks, jon.
March 15th, 2007 at 4:32 pmHatred is a choice, being gay is not.
Morality shouldn’t come from others, it should come from yourself, by talking a walk in another persons shoes.
We used to think it was moral to own another person….
Times change, and if religion don’t keep up, it will lose even more credibility and die.
March 15th, 2007 at 4:32 pmJuan….do you believe that is it immoral to drink alcohol….I do….do you think it is immoral to have sex outside of marriage….I do….do you think it immoral to get angry……I do……I could go on…but I am sure a lot of those beliefs would put me in the minority…even with fellow Christians….but they are subjected to my understandings and my faith. I do not impose them on my family or my friends…I have family and friends who engage in lots of things I might find immoral…..I choose to live my life a ceratin way….well as best as I can…..so I guess it that respect they are subjective. But again that was not the point I was making. I think using words like immoral from an elected official is dangerous and frought with potholes…..morality if a very personal matter and often when used it comes across very judgmental. That is ok for a preacher….not for a government official. I don’t want the government in the morality business…..I lived in a country that had morality police…it was not pretty.
March 15th, 2007 at 4:39 pmMorality shouldn’t come from others, it should come from yourself, by talking a walk in another persons shoes
Then in reality is it coming from someone else….the person’s who’s shoes you stole!!!
Just kidding….keep smiling people…
March 15th, 2007 at 4:41 pmTimes change, and if religion don’t keep up, it will lose even more credibility and die.
Comment by Damage Inc
You mean even more?
The big question for Christians: Why doesnt the Vatican sell all the gold they have in the bank accounts and in the walls of their cathedrals and help all the children in Africa, for example?
I mean how can you support an institution that has nothing to do with what Jesus preached and it is the richest state (Vatican) in the world?
March 15th, 2007 at 4:42 pmI lived in a country that had morality police…it was not pretty.
Comment by jon
Well, the bombing of Bosnia was made in grounds of “morality” as I recalled. It was a “humanitarian” bombing. The thing is, as you correctly say, states are not moral agents. Nor their governments. They should not be judged under morality grounds but under justice grounds.
March 15th, 2007 at 4:45 pmWell Juan…..you got me there….since I am not Catholic I will pass on that one though…..have a great day.
March 15th, 2007 at 4:48 pmWell, the bombing of Bosnia was made in grounds of “morality†as I recalled. It was a “humanitarian†bombing.
Yes!!! Finally!!! You got it!
I knew I’d get through to you!
March 15th, 2007 at 4:48 pmIt’s nice to see that Clinton still checks with the politcal wind before taking a stand. That is consistency.
March 15th, 2007 at 4:48 pmThe Vatican is rich because its military budget is low and it has a larger constituancy then any nation except China (and perhaps India).
March 15th, 2007 at 4:53 pm#57 Juan,
The Catholic Church is the largest charitable organization in the world, providing more money, services, and relief than any other private charity group.
March 15th, 2007 at 4:56 pmThe Catholic Church is the largest charitable organization in the world, providing more money, services, and relief than any other private charity group. Comment by Exley — March 15, 2007 @ 4:56 pm
They are also the largest *scam-corporation* on the planet, taking much more money from the poor than they ever give back.
Would you care to review the charitable resources in the Gates foundation – compared to the Catholic charities? In 2005, the USCCB only received 130 million dollars for Charity. How many *billions* does the Gates foundation have again?
I’m curious Exley – where do you get your *statistics*, your Bishop?
You really are a st*pid little twit – how often do you hear that? Not often enough – you still haven’t learned to STFU that ignorant trap of yours.
March 15th, 2007 at 5:05 pm“God told me a little while ago that he looked into your heart and mind, and he is f*cking pissed.
Comment by Zooey”
zooey, how come you ran away from me on the torture thread?
March 15th, 2007 at 5:06 pmIN ADDITION, THE CATHOLIC CHURCH HAS PRODUCED THE MOST HOMOSEXUAL PRIEST PEDOPHILE MOLESTING SCANDALS THAN ANY OTHER RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATION IN THE WORLD. PAST POPES SUCH AS Pius, DAMNED BE HIS CURSED NAME, WERE NAZI SYMPATHIZERS AND CONDONERS, AND WE HAVE PRESENTLY A SO-CALLED “FORMER” NAZI, WARBLING-RODENT aka RAT-SINGER AS THE ANTI-POPE, PONTIFF TO CJHIMPya’s ANTI-CHRIST, 666, THE GREAT BEAST(Just ask the white house barber who has seen the three sixes on CHIMPya’s scalp–Oops! Did I just SEAL that poor barber’s fate?) THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS THE IMMORAL ONE, NOT HOMOSEXUALITY!!!!!
March 15th, 2007 at 5:09 pmThe Catholic Church is the largest charitable organization in the world, providing more money, services, and relief than any other private charity group.
Comment by Exley
Please, review latinamerican history. Please review the role of Christian church in these lands.
March 15th, 2007 at 5:10 pmEx:
The Vatican Bank was Banco Ambrosiano’s main share-holder. Paul Marcinkus, head of the Vatican Bank from 1971 to 1989, was indicted in Italy in 1982 as an accessory in the $3.5 billion collapse of Banco Ambrosiano, one of the major post-war financial scandals. Banco Ambrosiano was accused of money laundering activities for the mafia and Propaganda Due (aka “P2″), an outlawed masonic lodge, led by neofascist Licio Gelli. P2 and its headmaster Licio Gelli worked with Gladio, the secret NATO anticommunist paramilitary organizations. Marcinkus never came to trial in Italy, where courts ruled that as a Vatican employee he was immune from prosecution. He lived in retirement in Sun City, Arizona (US) until his death on February 21, 2006.
The Vatican Bank refused to admit legal responsibility for the Ambrosiano’s downfall but did acknowledge “moral involvement”, and paid $241m (£169m) to creditors. As of 2006, investigations are continuing concerning the murder of Ambrosiano’s chairman, Roberto Calvi, which, according to Ernest Backes, former #3 of Clearstream, may have been linked to the death of Gérard Soisson, who used to work for Clearstream, a “bank of banks” which practices financial clearing.
March 15th, 2007 at 5:12 pmWalt. I know you like being succint but could you elaborate?
March 15th, 2007 at 5:14 pmzooey, how come you ran away from me on the torture thread?
Comment by michael
That’s funny when it’s you that runs away.
Figured out your MOS for your fake military claim yet?
hahaha
March 15th, 2007 at 5:18 pmTheir is one solution to all this conflict over Homosexuality….TIME.
March 15th, 2007 at 5:38 pmThe younger a person is, the less likely they are to have a problem with Homosexuality. Hopefully homophobia will follow slavery and racial bigotry into the dust bin of history.
#67, Juan….I do not deny that the Church has not always done right in Latin America and elsewhere. While divinely-inspired, the Church is governed by humans and, accordingly, has made terrible mistakes over the years.
But it also has done tremendous good. As I said, it is the largest private charitable organization on the planet today.
That is your problem, Juan. You are all about extremes. Your are either one or the other. To you, something is either all good or all good. You do not take into account human frailties and mistakes.
March 15th, 2007 at 6:10 pmYou do not take into account human frailties and mistakes.
Comment by Exley
If those were rare mistakes, I could agree with you. But as an institution (really a corporation whose product is Jesus), the Church seeks profit. In history, those systematic mistakes have always found priests and religious leaders in a wealthy and powerful position. You cant dispute that. Now, Im not saying anything about faith which is entirely a different thing. I have a problem with dogmas. You were told Jesus died for your and mine sins…and they tell you this when you are a kid!!!! This is incredible!!
I know there are some important groups (Jesuites, for example) that have made and make great contribution as social care, alphabetization, health education in indigenous regions, etc. Although I dont agree with their beliefs I think they make a difference towards a better world. Just like the Cuban doctors that go to the poorest countries and help people without asking anything in return, but I am sure you wont talk about this.
March 15th, 2007 at 6:28 pmHow can one be for Free speech and yet demand Pace be removed? How can you be for free speech and not defend Pace’s right to free speech? Is free speech only allowed if we agree with what was said?
I think we should allow homosexuals in the military personally. I also think we should allow Americans the right of free speech. In this case, we have Pace who said homosexual acts are immoral and thus shouldn’t be allowed in the military. Military law says homosexuals shouldn’t be allowed in the military. So lets get this straight. We have a man voicing an opinion that he is agrees with the rule of law and that isn’t ok? Is it ok to say murder is wrong because its immoral?
March 15th, 2007 at 6:42 pmExley
March 15th, 2007 at 6:45 pmyou challenge the sheeple here,
good, maybe they will start to see some light.
Juan C
You have your own dogmatic beliefs,
March 15th, 2007 at 6:47 pmhypocrite!
O man. Hillary tries so hard to appeal to both conservatives and liberals that she alienates everyone.
March 15th, 2007 at 7:13 pmThat is your problem, Juan. You are all about extremes. Your are either one or the other. To you, something is either all good or all good. You do not take into account human frailties and mistakes. Comment by Exley — March 15, 2007 @ 6:10 pm
Funny, you say Juan, but describe yourself and the rest of your *moralizing* right wing Nuttery.
You’re a dum bass Exley. And you should apologize for your lies and mistreatment of Hillary now. I told you that her statement was simply saying people should make up their own minds – and didn’t state anything about her personal feelings. But, NOoohhh, you had to *claim* she thought it was immoral.
Now you look like the st*pid smearing swiftboating liar we all know you to be! How’s that for “good and evil” – dumbass!
March 15th, 2007 at 9:02 pmYou have your own dogmatic beliefs,
hypocrite! Comment by Flaco — March 15, 2007 @ 6:47 pm
Flaco, you’re an immoral bigot, with your own dogmatic beliefs, that projects your own ignorances on others, hypocrite – dumbass!
March 15th, 2007 at 9:03 pmHand Banana, you are right for once!!!
March 15th, 2007 at 11:22 pmThats cute. TP decided to include Obama. Of course it had to have their favorite canidate Hillary in it as well. When are you walking away from Hillary TP?
March 15th, 2007 at 11:31 pmThats cute. TP decided to include Obama. Of course it had to have their favorite canidate Hillary in it as well. When are you walking away from Hillary TP? Comment by Roger_Roger — March 15, 2007 @ 11:31 pm
When are you going to pull KKKarl Rove’s d*ck out of your mouth? Dum bass!
March 16th, 2007 at 1:13 amOh my God! If homosexual behavior is immoral, then joining the Army is immoral!
I’m gay, and I joined the Army, which means that homosexual behavior is joining the Amry!
It also means that programming is immoral, and driving a truck is immoral, and listening to music is immoral.
I also go to church, so guess what! It;s immoral!
March 16th, 2007 at 9:46 amUniversity of Chicago has invited General Pace as a Keynote Speaker at their Graduate School of Business (GSB) Management Conference. The student there are working very hard to try to stop it from happening…. please go here :
http://www.petitiononline.com/PaceUofC/petition.html
to sign the petition “Keep General Peter Pace’s Bigotry Off Our Campus”
Thank you very much
April 21st, 2007 at 5:34 pm