According to a Pentagon transcript released yesterday, Khalid Sheik Mohammed confessed to masterminding 9/11 and “more than 30 other terror attacks or plots” at a military hearing held in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
Known among CIA officers as “Al-Qaeda’s toughest prisoner” in Guantanamo Bay, Mohammed has long been the subject of extreme interrogation techniques, including water boarding. “CIA officers who subjected themselves to the water boarding technique lasted an average of 14 seconds before caving in…KSM won the admiration of interrogators when he was able to last between two and two-and-a-half-minutes before begging to confess.” The CIA also reportedly abducted his seven- and nine-year-old sons and flew them to the United States for interrogation.
In his remarks to a military tribunal, Mohammed raised objections to the treatment he received, but his statements on torture were redacted by the Pentagon in their publicly released transcript:
I know American people are torturing us from seventies. [REDACTED]. I know they are talking human rights. And I know it is against American constitution, against American laws.
Mohammed claimed that CIA interrogators warned him he would be subjected to illegal treatment, calling it “bad luck”:
They said every law, they have exceptions, this is your bad luck you have been part of the exception of our laws.
Kenneth Roth of Human Rights Watch questioned the legality of the closed-door sessions and whether Mohammed’s confession was actually the result of torture. “We won’t know that unless there is an independent hearing,” he said. “We need to know if this purported confession would be enough to convict him at a fair trial or would it have to be suppressed as the fruit of torture?”
See the full Pentagon transcript HERE.
UPDATE: Danger Room and Talk Left have more.
They did this in Salem, during the witch hunts, didn’t they?
March 15th, 2007 at 12:35 pmAnd we’re the good guys, right? His confession is worthless.
March 15th, 2007 at 12:35 pmGee, redacted. Who’d a thunk the Bush administration would ever cherry pick intel?
March 15th, 2007 at 12:37 pmThey did this in Salem, during the witch hunts, didn’t they?
Witches or Muslims, to the christian Right, they’re both evil.
March 15th, 2007 at 12:40 pmKeneth Roth sez:
I think you’re missing the point here, Kenny. The administration’s goal here is not to convict KSM in a court of law…after all, he is an ‘enemy combatant’, and as such, his ass belongs to Chimpy, no quaint ‘trial’ necessary.
This isn’t about the administration attempting to convict KSM in a court of law…it’s about them trying to throw him up as the latest distraction. The administration hasn’t played the 9/11 card for a little while (at least not this directly), no doubt hoping that giving it a little rest would help it to regain its potency.
March 15th, 2007 at 12:40 pmThis is sick. What value is this “confession”?
March 15th, 2007 at 12:41 pmKSM has also “confessed” to being the one who killed Daniel Pearle….
March 15th, 2007 at 12:41 pmGeeez……..
Jees just release the guy already.
I live in the sticks as does most of my family, far from where anyone would want to bother attacking. He has obviously been compromised and not a thing he says can be trusted.
March 15th, 2007 at 12:41 pmWouldn’t it be a hoot if every prisoner in Gitmo has confessed to being the master mind behind every attack since 1990?
March 15th, 2007 at 12:44 pmIf any of the righties had any balls whatsoever, they’d volunteer to show us how long they could keep a secret while being waterboarded. I suppose we can rule out Limbaugh, Hannity, and O’Reilly right off the bat.
Oh hell, let’s waterboard them anyway.
March 15th, 2007 at 12:45 pmYou really want this guy released?! You people are dangerous.
March 15th, 2007 at 12:46 pmHe probably also confessed to being one of the shooters on the grassy knoll and dosing Marylin Monroe with sleeping pills.
March 15th, 2007 at 12:47 pm#9 - Wouldn’t it be a hoot if every prisoner in Gitmo has confessed to being the master mind behind every attack since 1990?
It’s actually worse than that. A fair number of them have gone insane. Sad, but true.
The US has no moral standing on anything BushCo has botched.
March 15th, 2007 at 12:48 pmAfter all the torture this man has had he would say he killed Abe Lincoln. In time we’ll find out he wasn’t involved with everything he said but for now it sounds good and people believe any thing Bush says. Remember Curvball said Saddam had WMDs and Bush believed it we invaded Iraq only to find out he lied. In future conflicts when American soldiers are tortured and lie look to McCain and Cheney to thank as it has become American policy. As for Bush he’s drunk and on drugs so he is to stupid to understand anything about it. IT’S BETTER TO BELIEVE THE LIE THEN TO FACE THE TRUTH THAT THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION HAS LIED FROM DAY ONE.
March 15th, 2007 at 12:48 pmRUCerious sez:
I’m Spartacus!
^_^
March 15th, 2007 at 12:48 pm#11 - You really want this guy released?! You people are dangerous.
No. You are the one who is dangerous. You live in fear and act from fear. The wrong people get hurt by the likes of you.
March 15th, 2007 at 12:48 pm#4 barfly, Yep! And they will be coming after me and indeed any that opose their view’s if not stoped….Am I afraid, no….Let the investigation’s start soon and hopefuly impeach and jail them all….Blessings
March 15th, 2007 at 12:49 pm#11 Joke
You really want this guy released?! You people are dangerous.
Nice strawman there, Joke. When did ‘us people’ say anything like that?
March 15th, 2007 at 12:51 pmJesusChrist_GodofWAR:
We’ll have to agree to disagree.
March 15th, 2007 at 12:52 pmThis is the wrong poster boy for arguments against torture.
March 15th, 2007 at 12:52 pmThis confession is worthless.
Even if Khalid Sheikh Mohammad did every single thing he says he did, the comfession is completely worthless.
Heckuva a job Chimpy.
March 15th, 2007 at 12:53 pmJake sez:
Um…we’re not the ones who are suspending habeas corpus, torturing suspects, ‘rendering’ suspects overseas to foreign prisons where they can be tortured even more, declaring suspects as ‘enemy combatants’ based upon mere suspision, convicting same ‘enemy combatants’ in secret trials, based upon evidence the defendant isn’t allowed to see, etc., etc., etc.
If you want to see who’s ‘dangerous’, look to the White House.
March 15th, 2007 at 12:54 pmThe “confession” is a sad joke. Why would he confess now after all this time in captivity? What’s to be gained from his saying, “I did it”? No matter what he said he was to be detained indefinitely, so his having confessed is really meaningless. And the information he provided is equally meaningless.
March 15th, 2007 at 12:55 pmYou really want this guy released?! You people are dangerous.
I guess you should introduce yourself, Tundra. Long time no see.
March 15th, 2007 at 12:55 pmchimpeach sez:
Actually ‘Tundra’ advocated that in post #8. Leave it to Jake to generalize the opinion of one post to ‘all of us’.
Besides, by focusing on that, he can sidestep the real issue…the “confession” of KSM, obtained by torture, and released exactly when the administration needs it most. Far too many uncomfortable realities in there for Jake to try to tackle…
March 15th, 2007 at 12:57 pm#18–
See comment #8, above…
March 15th, 2007 at 12:57 pmmongo sez:
And why is that, mongo? Elucidate.
March 15th, 2007 at 12:58 pmThanks a LOT Bush administration! Way to make it easy for terrorists to go free!
If this guy was indeed behind the attacks, I want him to suffer a long, slow, painful death. But now… with your sh*t interrogation techniques - which may crossed the line of legality - he may be set free!
And now, even if he IS innocent, he’s going to be fuming mad at Americans for what they’ve done to him, and may not be so innocent anymore.
The Bush administration just created yet another terrorist. This administration SUCKS!
March 15th, 2007 at 12:58 pmbarfly sez:
Heh…I suspected the same thing. I wouldn’t put it past Jake to sockpuppet his own straw man.
March 15th, 2007 at 12:59 pmGive him a public trial, have people go under oath and testify, this “confession” was heavily edited and probably beaten out of him
Torture me and I’ll confess to anything, that doesn’t mean it’ll be true it just means it will be whatever you want it to be
March 15th, 2007 at 1:00 pmNo. You are the one who is dangerous. You live in fear and act from fear. The wrong people get hurt by the likes of you.
Comment by JesusChrist_GodofWAR
Well said, JCGW.
To paraphrase FDR: The only thing we have to fear is the embodiment of fear.
March 15th, 2007 at 1:03 pm#25 TripMaster Monkey
Actually ‘Tundra’ advocated that in post #8. Leave it to Jake to generalize the opinion of one post to ‘all of us’.
That’s my point.
March 15th, 2007 at 1:03 pmAnd they abducted his seven and nine-year old sons and flew them to the US for interrogation.
Well, then, no need to torture him…
Why not attach a couple of battery cables to his kids and see if he’ll talk?
March 15th, 2007 at 1:03 pmWe’re the good guys!
Jake quit being a moron and take your adderall, you are off task.
March 15th, 2007 at 1:04 pmTundra is an old troll, living as he said, in a remote area, and doesn’t really care about what goes on in the rest of the world, as long as he has enough ammo.
March 15th, 2007 at 1:04 pm#26 mongo
See comment #8, above
No, that was a person. Not us people.
March 15th, 2007 at 1:05 pmActually ‘Tundra’ advocated that in post #8. Leave it to Jake to generalize the opinion of one post to ‘all of us’.
Yeah I far from represent the majority here.
Heya Barfly, yeah been long.
Jake,
March 15th, 2007 at 1:07 pmBasically this guy needs to be drug behind a truck until he is almost dead, then have salt and lemon juice poured over him while he dies a slow painful death. BUT due to the piss poor way this was handled any statement he has said is completely worthless. Since it is all worthless and they used torture, detaining him any longer is wrong. We (those posters in the U.S) live in a country with due process, that has to be followed in every case. As much as I hate it, it was done completely wrong and his further detainment is wrong.
Reading through the transcript, one is truly struck by the fairness of the hearing.
The detainee is represented by a third-party–presumably an attorney. He has the right to question witnesses and call witnesses to testify on his behalf. He is permitted to examine documents. He is permitted to present evidence on his behalf. He has access to a translator at any time. He is permitted to present a lengthy statement to the tribunal. He is permitted to raise objections to some of the evidence against him. He is permitted and does question the President of the tribunal regarding procedures and rulings. At all times, he is addressed with great courtesy.
In sum, it is a remarkably fair process, going to extraordinary length to ensure the detainee receives due process. I submit there are very few other nations on earth that would provide an unlawful enemy combatant, especially one who has committed the type of atrocity Al Qaeda perpetrated on 9/11, access to such a fair proceeding.
Reading the transcript, one sees how truly great and fair a nation this is.
March 15th, 2007 at 1:07 pmKSM shot John Lennon.
March 15th, 2007 at 1:07 pmKhalid Sheik Mohammed confessed to masterminding 9/11 and more than 30 other terror attacks or plots.
And all this time I thought Osama bin Laden was behind it. I guess we can justify the abandonment of the Administration’s search for him now.
I am only surprised that KSM has not confessed to causing the failure of the New Orleans levy’s, the leaking of Valerie Plame’s identity, and was the culprit behind the firings of the US Attorneys as well.
Given another few weeks of water boarding, I am sure we could get him to confess for causing global warming as well.
March 15th, 2007 at 1:08 pmMongo: “This is the wrong poster boy for arguments against torture.”
You’re 180 degrees off on this one. Because he is so disgusting, he’s the perfect poster boy with which to test our values. Does anyone seriously believe this guy was the mastermind behind all of these various world-wide events? Would anyone here NOT confess to ANYTHING if his two sons were being held by his torturers?
March 15th, 2007 at 1:10 pmZooey and TripMaster Monkey:
As I posted to JesusChrist_GodofWAR, we’ll have to agree to disagree then.
March 15th, 2007 at 1:11 pmThey’ve tortured him for years. They’ve abducted and are holding his children… and Exley thinks it’s “a remarkably fair process.”
This says more about Exley’s values than anything else.
March 15th, 2007 at 1:12 pmMar 15, 2007
The alleged mastermind of the 9/11 attacks has admitted his role in them, and 30 other plots in a hearing at Guantanamo Bay, the Pentagon says.
Among the other terror plots he confessed to during the waterboarding was the shooting of Abraham Lincoln, the downing of the Hindenburg, both space shuttles, the Great Chicago Fire, and the San Francisco Earthquake of 1906.
March 15th, 2007 at 1:12 pmRead the transcript, BlueDog.
Moreover, your assertions are disputable.
March 15th, 2007 at 1:13 pmExley,
While I may agree it is more fair than most other nations would treat an enemy combatant.
March 15th, 2007 at 1:14 pmHe is permitted to raise objections to some of the evidence against him
Why some? He can object (and win) every argument he has a right to, but cannot object to some (which results in him being guilty with no representation or rebuttal)
Neocon Ideology:
White is right. What’s wrong with torturing little “brown” kids?
March 15th, 2007 at 1:14 pmWe don’t really KNOW where Osama is. We really just don’t CARE. Instead, we are going to try this creepy brown man, so that you will maybe forget that we have f*ed-up royally. Let them eat pita bread! Go shopping- WHATEVER! Just get off my tired, old decrepid back!
March 15th, 2007 at 1:15 pmComment by Exley — March 15, 2007 @ 1:07 pm
And what drugs are you taking?
March 15th, 2007 at 1:16 pmSure makes ya proud t’ be a ‘merican don’t it?
March 15th, 2007 at 1:16 pmNext thing you know, we’ll be under orange alert, again. Brian Williams on NBC says that the farmer’s market has reopened in Bahgdad. Yippee!
March 15th, 2007 at 1:18 pmHow about a little muslim treatment Religion of Peace for KSM- Behead this MFer!
Allah akbar!
KSM get ready to meet your 72 year old virgin. Or was that 72 virgins?
March 15th, 2007 at 1:18 pmHeh
Assuming the assertions are disputable, if they really did abduct his children and are holding them, do you still feel the process is “remarkably fair?” Nobody disputes that he was tortured. Why are you assuming that they didn’t abduct his children?
March 15th, 2007 at 1:19 pm#38 - Reading through the transcript, one is truly struck by the fairness of the hearing…
I would be struck by the fairness of having you waterboarded so that you too can confess your involvement in over 30 terrorist operations.
Further, I would be struck by the fairness of having Darth Cheney and Emperor George bundled up and shipped to the Hague to stand trial for crimes of war.
March 15th, 2007 at 1:19 pm#46 Tundra,
The only documents to which the detainee does not have access are documents that would give away methods and sources of U.S. intelligence gathering. I don’t think you would want Khalid Sheik Mohammed to know, for example, if we have a mole inside Al Qaeda or have developed a new method of intercepting electronic communications.
Other than this narrow exception, the detainees have access to pretty much all the evidence against them — a remarkably fair process for an unlawful enemy combatant during a time of war.
March 15th, 2007 at 1:21 pmI read the transcript last night Ex-lie. From a legal point of view, and, yes, I can say that now, the hearing was hardly fair.
If, as you say, such a hearing is fair, then we could use Bush’s Military Commissions as a model for all criminal trials. I must say, prosecutors would love it; their conviction rate would go to 100%.
March 15th, 2007 at 1:22 pmGiven another few weeks of water boarding, I am sure we could get him to confess for causing global warming as well.
Comment by Joe Sixpack
You’re right Joe, waterboarding produces untruths — like global warming!
March 15th, 2007 at 1:22 pmI am waiting for him to confess to robbing my wife in the high street yesterday. There is a lot to be said for electrodes and genetalia….
Apparently he’s also confessed to being behind global warming, the sneaky bastard.
Since KSM has confessed to the 9-11 attacks, does that let OBL off the hook? Has Bush had his man all this time, and the war in Afghanistan is after all as big a waste of time as the war in Iraq?
KSM has been in the hands of the USA security bodies and their sub-contracted torturers for about four years and all of a sudden he is confessing to every act of evil doing for the past ten years or so. Would you think me terribly cynical if I just shrugged and said “Yeah, what-ever.”
March 15th, 2007 at 1:23 pmKSM shot John Lennon.
Comment by shane
KSM is the ‘real killer’ of Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman.
March 15th, 2007 at 1:24 pmComment by Exley — March 15, 2007 @ 1:21 pm
Wrong again, Ex-lie. You are demonstrating a consistent lack of understanding of the Military Commissions Act.
Or you’re being willfully STUPID.
March 15th, 2007 at 1:25 pmCynicon Implant sez:
Wow…that’s the second most aggressively stupid comment I’ve read today.
(Sorry, CI, but firehead is posting today as well, so if you want top honors, you’ll have to try a little harder. ^_^ )
March 15th, 2007 at 1:25 pmfrom the: The Rumor Mill News Reading Room
WE HAVE TO TAKE CARE - AS THIS STUNT MIGHT BE THE PRELUDE…
…to something bigger.
At first I laughed and understood it as a joke. But as all the networks now are full of this hillarious statement I started to think.
It goes without saying that this “confession” is topping every Osama-video and all those “proofs” that turned out to be “poofs”.
If this was meant to be some convincing piece I would regard it as a direct insult against any thinking human in this world.
If the admin had almost five years to present such a “confession”, why now? Bad polls wouldn’t qualify for the schedule alone…
So it might serve as a prelude for another staged attack.
The psychology is on hands: Make the people laugh first - and hit them even harder after. So the bow of emotions will be streched even wider…
March 15th, 2007 at 1:26 pmToby, I think he was also responsible for daylight savings time change coming 3 weeks early!
March 15th, 2007 at 1:26 pmFOX, CNN, NBC, ABC, CBS. I hate them all. Why me laugh? I’d rather live in a f*ing cartoon! I don’t think this guy got a fair deal, either.
March 15th, 2007 at 1:26 pmWhy am I seeing a history lesson (before they edited our history books) on the Inquisition? During the Inquisition, those priests could make a victim confess to whatever they wanted by using all sorts of heinous torture tactics. I see nothing different in the way they treated KSM.
True, he should be punished for participating in terror tactics, but torture? That makes us just like him.
March 15th, 2007 at 1:27 pmAdmitting you did soemthing is actually a long way off from actually having done so. Remeber the guy who admitted killing Jon Benet? A couple of years ago the Chicago Tribunne ran a series of articles on the chicago torturing suspects and coercing suspects iinto confessing, including crimes as harsh as murder. They were able to do so quite easily too, ditto for the NY police, remeber they got those kids to admit beating and raping the central park jogger. Confessions are fine, but I really think you need the physical evidence to back up the confessions.
And what is the point of a confession anyway? From my understanding the administration plans on holding these guys at least until the war on terror is over and since terror is a tactic these guys are in prison forever. I do not believe thhat the administration has plans to ever bring any of these guys into court for anything approaching a real trial.
March 15th, 2007 at 1:27 pmReading the transcript, one sees how truly great and fair a nation this is.
Comment by Exley
Which part is your favorite. Where the judges go into a secret room and discuss classified evidence without the defendant or his defense rep present or where the defendant wasn’t allowed to call witnesses or the blacked out portions? Do tell.
March 15th, 2007 at 1:28 pmhttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/ news/ main.jhtml?xml=/ news/ 2003/ 03/ 09/ walqa09.xml
FLASHBACK: CIA holds young sons of captured al-Qa’eda chief
March 15th, 2007 at 1:30 pmTwo young sons of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the suspected mastermind of the September 11 attacks, are being used by the CIA to force their father to talk
Tobey Tall sez:
Only a criminally stupid person would take this “confession” seriously. Unfortunately, the fact is that this administration isn’t trying to convince the relatively few American citizens capable of independent rational thought…that’s just far too much work, and isn’t really necessary in any case. They’re playing to the bulk of the population…you know, the ones who can recite all the American Idol finalists, but can’t find Iraq on a map.
Don’t believe me? Watch the “news” tonight and see what the talking-heads say.
March 15th, 2007 at 1:30 pmExley, assuming the assertions are disputable, if they really did abduct his children and are holding them, do you still feel the process is “remarkably fair?†Nobody disputes that he was tortured. Why are you assuming that they didn’t abduct his children?
If the government were to abduct your children and then, while holding them, ask you to confess to a number of crimes, would you call that “remarkably fair?”
Are you one of these “situational ethics” kind of guys?
March 15th, 2007 at 1:31 pmDid anyone mention that he also was the man spotted with tim mcvey on the day of the OTC bombing.
He flew in to Oklahoma right after finalizing details of the plan with Saddam Hussein.
March 15th, 2007 at 1:31 pmThank you, John. Exley, your thoughts? Does it still look “remarkably fair” to you?
March 15th, 2007 at 1:32 pmBlueDog,
Leaving aside the question of whether he was waterboarded or if waterboarding should even be considered torture, the issue of his children is very much in dispute. We know next to nothing about this story, including whether it is true or not. TP links to a four-year old blog entry as documentation of this assertion. The early news stories about this allegation are from British and other overseas newspapers, with no named sources whatsoever. The “TalkLeft” blog reluctantly acknowledges that the CIA has denied the allegation. Moreover, even if it were true, the reporting of the allegation shows that children are being treated quite gently. (”We are handling them with kid gloves. After all, they are only little children,” said one official, “but we need to know as much about their father’s recent activities as possible. We have child psychologists on hand at all times and they are given the best of care.” The Telegraph).
Moreover, if the U.S. has them, we do not know how they came to be in U.S. possession. If Pakistani forces found them with KSM when he was captured and they have no other family, what were we supposed to do with them? Leave them in Pakistan or Afghanistan to fend for themselves? I submit it would be morally incumbent upon the U.S. to take custody of them.
In short, there is simply too much that is unknown about this allegation. But at the very least, the idea that these two children, even if the U.S. does have custody of them, are languishing in some dungeon in Guantanamo is really just plain silly.
March 15th, 2007 at 1:35 pm*
If there’s nothing to hide, then why are they hiding everything?
…
exley’s comment made me gag… how tragic… how absurd…
March 15th, 2007 at 1:35 pmWhich part is your favorite. Where the judges go into a secret room and discuss classified evidence without the defendant or his defense rep present or where the defendant wasn’t allowed to call witnesses or the blacked out portions? Do tell.
Comment by dlet
I don’t know about Exley, but my favorite part is the waterboarding. Making somebody think they are going to drown? I love that!
What’s that you say? That is inhumane? You’re right — how could I be so foolish. It’s really the same as suicide bombing innocent civilians or beheading journalists, come to think of it…
March 15th, 2007 at 1:37 pmFLASHBACK: CIA holds young sons of captured al-Qa’eda chief
Two young sons of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the suspected mastermind of the September 11 attacks, are being used by the CIA to force their father to talk
Comment by John
Biased liberal media retort in 3..2…1
March 15th, 2007 at 1:39 pmWhat’s that you say? That is inhumane? You’re right — how could I be so foolish. It’s really the same as suicide bombing innocent civilians or beheading journalists, come to think of it…
Comment by Cynicon Implant
Well he’s honest about his contempt for everything the US is supposed to stand for. It’s the only thing he’s been honest about but it’s something.
March 15th, 2007 at 1:42 pmJust stumbled across this. Truly a worthwhile read, especially given the news of the day.
Was I a good American in the time of George Bush?
Please let me know what you think.
March 15th, 2007 at 1:44 pmLeaving aside the ethical points so well discussed here, how do we know that a confession really occured?
We’re taking the word of people who don’t have a great track record with the truth.
March 15th, 2007 at 1:45 pmReading through the transcript, one is truly struck by the fairness of the hearing.
…
Reading the transcript, one sees how truly great and fair a nation this is.
Comment by Exley
F*ck you, Exley.
I always thought that even though you are misguided almost 100% of the time, at least you had a brain and a soul.
I was wrong. You are an empty vessel.
I hope you are visited by your deepest fears, that those fears will torture your soul as you celebrate the torture and injustice to your fellow human being, and maybe someday you will learn what it is to BE a human being.
March 15th, 2007 at 1:47 pmAmerica simply cannot go on until the wingers are thrown out. In just six short years of Republican rule, we have degenerated below barbarism.
March 15th, 2007 at 1:47 pmDon’t believe me? Watch the “news†tonight and see what the talking-heads say.
I’m already visioning the news tonight they might forget to say that when KSM saw his son for the first time after a few months captivity “he was walking strangely and his gay guard had a smile on him like a Chesire cat”
March 15th, 2007 at 1:48 pmExley, your long post of course sidesteps the question. What I asked you is if you thought it would be “remarkably fair” if your children were being held by the same people who were asking you to confess to a crime. Your response is to question the story itself and then, amazingly, to argue that they’re being held “with kid gloves.” By arguing that they’re being held with kid gloves, you’re agreeing that the story you just questioned is true. Get your act together, Exley. It’s either true that they’re holding his children or it is not. The “silly” think about them in a dungeon is simply one of your strawman arguments.
Again, is it “remarkably fair” to hold someone’s children in custody and then ask him to confess to crimes? That’s the question you seem unable to address.
Cynicon Implant, you are a great representative of the current neocon “culture of death.” What you just admitted, whether or not you know it, is that there is no difference between you and the terrorists.
March 15th, 2007 at 1:48 pmZooey,
Read the transcript.
March 15th, 2007 at 1:53 pmIt’s either true that they’re holding his children or it is not.
BlueDog, I believe my previous posting already addressed all your questions. The fact is we don’t know if the U.S. has custody of the children. And even if we do have custody, we don’t know how that came about. Like I said, if they were found with KSM when he was captured and they have no other family that can be found, than the U.S. should take responsibility for their care and custody.
March 15th, 2007 at 1:57 pmIt’s really the same as suicide bombing innocent civilians or beheading journalists, come to think of it…
Comment by Cynicon Implant
Or burning kids with White Phosphorous or using depleted uranium affecting your OWN soldiers or supporting an illegal war.
March 15th, 2007 at 1:57 pmThe detainee is represented by a third-party–presumably an attorney. He has the right to question witnesses and call witnesses to testify on his behalf. He is permitted to examine documents. Exley
In his remarks to a military tribunal, Mohammed raised objections to the treatment he received, but his statements on torture were redacted by the Pentagon in their publicly released transcript:
So if he calls witnesses, can they testify to things which have been redacted by the pentagon from publicly-released documents?
March 15th, 2007 at 1:58 pmZooey,
Read the transcript.
Comment by Exley
Whether I read the transcript or not — F*ck you.
March 15th, 2007 at 2:01 pmI hope you are visited by your deepest fears, that those fears will torture your soul as you celebrate the torture and injustice to your fellow human being, and maybe someday you will learn what it is to BE a human being.
Comment by Zooey
Good post, Zoo. Anyone who supports torture and disguise it with some law cheap talk is terrorized everyday. In the case of Exley, 9/11 blew him away.
There is only one thing worse than not knowing the truth…that one is knowing the truth.
March 15th, 2007 at 2:01 pmLike I said, if they were found with KSM when he was captured and they have no other family that can be found, than the U.S. should take responsibility for their care and custody.
Comment by Exley
Just as Saddam took “care and custody” of the “human shields” who went to Iraq? Tell me again how we’re the good guys, Exley.
March 15th, 2007 at 2:01 pmOnce more. Exley, you still haven’t addressed the basic question: do you think it’s “remarkably fair” to ask someone to confess to crimes while you are holding their children? The question is not whether or not they have them. The question is not whether or not the transcript indicates a fair process. You know the question. Why won’t you answer it? If you don’t want to address the question, fine. Just don’t act like you addressed it.
March 15th, 2007 at 2:02 pmthan the U.S. should take responsibility for their care and custody.
Comment by Exley
Yeah, care…thats it.
March 15th, 2007 at 2:03 pmCynicon Implant, you are a great representative of the current neocon “culture of death.†What you just admitted, whether or not you know it, is that there is no difference between you and the terrorists.
Comment by Bluedog49
Careful Bluedog or I’ll behead you and put the video tape on the internet for your family to see it. bwahahahaha!
Seriously though, please spare me the misguided moral equivalency between our methods of interrogation and the tactics of terrorists. It is a (blue)dog that just won’t hunt — so to speak.
March 15th, 2007 at 2:03 pmIt’s really the same as suicide bombing innocent civilians or beheading journalists, come to think of it…
Comment by Cynicon Implant
And how much of that occurred in Iraq before we invaded? “Think” is a much too grandiose term for what you are doing. “Brainfart” is more like it.
March 15th, 2007 at 2:05 pmThere is only one thing worse than not knowing the truth…that one is knowing the truth.
Comment by Juan C
Very wise, Juan.
Exley will awake from his everyday cold sweat, to the true horror of what he is advocating. He will feel the worst cold sweat imaginable trickling down his back — the fear from within.
March 15th, 2007 at 2:07 pmSeriously though, please spare me the misguided moral equivalency between our methods of interrogation and the tactics of terrorists.
Comment by Cynicon Implant
Well, you just make a death threat.
Careful Bluedog or I’ll behead you and put the video tape on the internet for your family to see it.
I dont see how that can be taken as a joke. Exactly what Bluedog said: You and terrorists are no different.
March 15th, 2007 at 2:08 pmSo, Exley; can they testify to things which have been redacted by the pentagon from publicly-released documents? I await your much-considered false equivocation.
March 15th, 2007 at 2:09 pmHere’s a nice story on the topic:
http://rawstory.com/ news/ 2007/ Can_Khalid_Sheikh_Mohammeds_tortured_testimony_0315.html
March 15th, 2007 at 2:20 pmTo truly gage the fairness of the proceedings or whether something is torture or not perhaps we need to look at how we would react if American troops were treated in a similar manner? What did we think of our pilots being water boarded in Vietnam? What did we think of the trials the North Vietnamese held for our pilots? The people of North Vietnam were convinced that the Americans got fair treatment based on their knowledge of what was going on. Remember too GWB’s reaction when pictures of our troops were shown on the telly after being captured. I believe GWB was outraged and pretty much said that our guys should be treated in accordance with international law. Seems to me like we set the standard there and should follow the law, not make up our own laws as we go along.
BTW it’s not just KSM’s kids who were held. I read numerous stories of people being held in Iraq simply as a means to get at their father, or brother or uncle, someone. So our new American standard is that torture is ok as long as we argue that it is not really torture by our new definition. Another new standard is that we can hold innocents to get at the guys we really want. We also believe in secret hearings where your tortured confession might just be the only evidence against you, and even though tortured out of you it will still be good enough to use for conviction.
The moonbat accept everything form the administration righties seem to think that when you argue for the rule of law, that you support the terrorists and enemies of our country. What they have no clue about, or don’t care about is that you are not really supporting the terrorists, you are supporting the rule of law and the standards of our nation. One political party has shown consistently that they are more than willing to compromise the standards of our nation, so I ask you, who really supports the aims and goals of the terrorists. And remember it is those same people who argue continually that the terrorists want to destroy our nation and our way of life. So in order to protect our way of life we are supposed to trust the right wing while they tear it down to protect us?
For my whole life I have heard people sneering as they talk about criminals getting off on technicalities, myself included, well those technicalities are our constitution and what makes us who we are. Now finally after 47 years I have come to the realization that the republican party does not like the constitution as it sits and would like it neutered for their own political reasons. Someday I hope our country fully wakes up to these anti-American thugs and reclaim what our founders set up for us.
Note to the moonbats…conservatism is not the issue for me, it is the organized la cosa nostra like activity of the republican party. Conservatism is an ideology, republican party is an organization. And to my view it looks like a huge organized crime syndicate.
March 15th, 2007 at 2:24 pmamerica isn’t buying it:
http://www.cnn.com/ POLLSERVER/ results/ 30698.exclude.html
March 15th, 2007 at 2:26 pmCynicon Implant sez:
I really don’t understand why neocons feel they can make death threats, and then make it all right by claiming it to be a ‘joke’.
A death threat is a death threat, claims of it ‘being a joke’ notwithstanding.
Also, anyone who would ‘joke’ about murdering someone has seriously stunted ethics.
March 15th, 2007 at 2:26 pmCynicon: “my favorite part is the waterboarding. Making somebody think they are going to drown? I love that!”
And then later: “spare me the misguided moral equivalency between our methods of interrogation and the tactics of terrorists.”
Cynicon, as one of your demigods, Rush Limpballs, says, “words mean things.”
March 15th, 2007 at 2:28 pmActually, Barfly, the only thing that was being “much-considered” was where to go for lunch.
Now, to address your question. First of all, it is not the Pentagon who chooses to redact the information. It is the judge who makes the decision on motion of counsel. In other words, it is the attorney who asks the judge to delete or substitute information available to the defendant if he or she feels it is necessary to protect from disclosure the sources, methods, or activities by which the United States acquired evidence . Defense counsel may oppose the motion. The judge then considers both arguments and makes a decision to delete or not. If the judge decides that the information should be deleted, the defendant does not have access to the redacted portions of the evidence and neither do the witnesses. In place of the deleted information, the judge may order (i) the substitution of a portion or summary of the information for such classified documents; or (ii) the substitution of a statement admitting relevant facts that the classified information would tend to prove
The judge’s decision is reviewable by military and civilain appeals courts. In other words, on appeal, an appellate court can say the judge made a mistake in withholding some information and order a new trial with the information now made available to the defendant.
Moreover, the MCA requires the prosecution “disclose to the defense the existence of any evidence known to trial counsel that reasonably tends to exculpate the accused. Where exculpatory evidence is classified, the accused shall be provided with an adequate substitute.
In other words, the government is required by statute to disclose to the defense any evidence that tends to prove the defendant is not guilty.
I hope that answers your question, Barfly. You might want to take a look at the Military Commissions Act. All of your questions can be answered by referring to the statute.
March 15th, 2007 at 2:40 pmNo offense all (especially to Daniel Pearls family and friends), but if I was captured, and the perpetrators threatened to torture and kill my children, I’d confess to beheading the reporter, to keep my family safe.
March 15th, 2007 at 2:40 pmJust saying….
DUHmerican racist pigs have ALWAYS been…
…democracy hating, unAmerican DEMONS…
…and until this country is purged of its right wing fascists…
…it will NEVER be great…
March 15th, 2007 at 2:42 pm#88 Zooey, In addition to reading the transcript, I also recommend you read the Military Commissions Act. It will answer many of your questions and clear up some of your confusion.
March 15th, 2007 at 2:42 pmI finally figured it out …he held these secrets all these years until they broke out the big guns of torture …reruns of “She’s the Sheriff” - after the second episode that fuxtik spilled the beans on everything!
March 15th, 2007 at 2:46 pmOnce more. Exley, you still haven’t addressed the basic question: do you think it’s “remarkably fair†to ask someone to confess to crimes while you are holding their children? The question is not whether or not they have them. The question is not whether or not the transcript indicates a fair process. You know the question. Why won’t you answer it? If you don’t want to address the question, fine. Just don’t act like you addressed it.
March 15th, 2007 at 2:47 pmWhether I read the transcript or not — F*ck you.
Comment by Zooey
A little closed minded person.
March 15th, 2007 at 2:53 pmBlueDog, Your question is a hypothetical and thus, not really relevant.
But I will play along. The answer is: “It depends.” If the children are being well cared for by the U.S. government and have no other family or friends that can take care of them, then no, there is absolutely nothing unfair about the process.
In a civilain setting, if a single parent is put arrested and put on trial for a crime and the defendant’s children are made wards of the state or put in foster care, does that impugn the fairness of the defendant’s trial???? Of course not.
March 15th, 2007 at 2:55 pmExlax - evasion is a sign of dishonesty. You’re aren’t admitting to being dishonest now are you? Just answer the effing question!
March 15th, 2007 at 2:56 pm#89, “some law cheap talk”
Juan, Just because you may not understand it does not make it “cheap.” The law is the foundation of civilization.
March 15th, 2007 at 2:57 pmBlue dog didn’t ask you a “what if” - the question is “do you think…”
Yet you still haven’t answered. I’m guessing if I kidnapped your children, placed them in front of a TV set, played “She’s the Sheriff” all darn day…and you saw the horror in their eyes, you’d confess to everything!
March 15th, 2007 at 2:58 pmKSM might want to build himself up in the eyes of the Americans in order to distract attention from others in the Global Jihad who are still active and have not been caught. It’s not as if he has anything to lose by ‘confessing’ to being the man behind plots that might actually be the work of others; or plots that perhaps never existed, in order to waste the Americans’ resources and attention. Omar Nasiri was quite explicit in his recent book about Global Jihadis using interrogations as a way of continuing their struggle.
March 15th, 2007 at 2:58 pmAlso I meant to add that if what we read is what we know today, then the reality of the situation must be much more intense than we have ever been led to believe.
March 15th, 2007 at 3:01 pm“She’s the Sheriff” was underrated.
March 15th, 2007 at 3:02 pm#88 Zooey, In addition to reading the transcript, I also recommend you read the Military Commissions Act. It will answer many of your questions and clear up some of your confusion.
Comment by Exley
Do not patronize me, Exley.
I don’t get confused about things like human rights and torture — unlike you.
March 15th, 2007 at 3:05 pmA little closed minded person.
Comment by Flaco
Mindless person.
March 15th, 2007 at 3:08 pm“Do not patronize me, Exley.”
When you treat other people with respect, Zooey, you, in turn, will be treated respectfully.
March 15th, 2007 at 3:12 pmOh, and Exlie, he didn’t have a lawyer present, just a “personal representative.”
You should have such a “fair hearing.”
March 15th, 2007 at 3:16 pmEx-lie, quit trying to interpret that which you know nothing about, i.e. the Military Commissions Act.
March 15th, 2007 at 3:18 pmWhen you treat other people with respect, Zooey, you, in turn, will be treated respectfully.
Comment by Exley
Exley,
Bullshit.
From the first moment you showed your sorry self around here, you have patronized the commenters here — especially women.
You’re a liar, too.
March 15th, 2007 at 3:26 pm#121….Now, now, BnF….If you ever hope to practice law someday and argue a case before a judge and jury, you will need to learn to gather your facts, the relevant statutory authority and case law, and then marshall a convincing argument. You have done none of that here. Go read the transcript and the MCA and then try to come up with a reasonable and sustainable argument. Until you do so, you have nothing to offer but vapid postings.
March 15th, 2007 at 3:27 pmokay, I’ll repeat.
If my abductors threaten to tortue and kill my children, I’ll admit to any grisly murder if it will keep my family safe.
I’ll admit to wearing a pink tutu while dancing erotically for elderly men.
I’ll admit to being valiant venus’ love slave
I’ll admit to eating dog doo-doo as a form of fiber substitute
I’ll even admit to being JMH’s dear friend.
I’ll admit to anything.
As long as my children are safe
Which begs the question, Exley. Do you have any children?
March 15th, 2007 at 3:27 pmThank God for karma. All of you torture advocates will get yours some day.
March 15th, 2007 at 3:35 pm““She’s the Sheriff†was underrated.
Comment by Exley — March 15, 2007 @ 3:02 pm”
OMG I thought you were a fruit loop before but now I know you’re completely out of your mind lol! I mean, c’mon …I was the star of that show and I know it was a piece of rolling dung!
March 15th, 2007 at 3:36 pmZooey,
Now, you know that it is not true. The victimization role you are playing here is really beneath you. I think you are just upset that my criticism of Hillary from last night was validated by ThinkProgress in the new thread. Don’t get frustrated. It’s not the first time I have been proven right and it certainly will not be the last.
March 15th, 2007 at 3:38 pmComment by Exley — March 15, 2007 @ 3:27 pm
Exley, you can’t really pull off patronization when you don’t know what you’re talking about.
I was going to advise you to stop, but I just realized I’m enjoying the spectacle too much. Do continue. ^_^
March 15th, 2007 at 3:40 pm“This confession is worthless.
Even if Khalid Sheikh Mohammad did every single thing he says he did, the comfession is completely worthless.
Heckuva a job Chimpy.
Comment by Zooey — March 15, 2007 @ 12:53 pm”
Why am I not surprised that you cowardly, useless, spineless liberals would side with this piece of crap! God help this country if you ever controlled our military!
March 15th, 2007 at 3:40 pmActually, TPM,
My explanation of the MCA and KSM’s hearing comes directly from the wording of the statute and the transcript. You should take a look at those documents.
March 15th, 2007 at 3:44 pmNow, you know that it is not true. The victimization role you are playing here is really beneath you. I think you are just upset that my criticism of Hillary from last night was validated by ThinkProgress in the new thread. Don’t get frustrated. It’s not the first time I have been proven right and it certainly will not be the last.
Comment by Exley
Exley, I’m only addressing today’s issue. I already told you that you could be right if you wanted to last night — remember? No, you’ll just try to smear me now, because that’s how you are.
I am not playing the victim here — as if you could ever victimize me — you are simply continuing your hard ingrained habit of patronizing anyone who is not yourself.
We’ve had our issues before, Exley, but with the attitude you’ve taken today, I have lost all respect for you.
March 15th, 2007 at 3:48 pmWOW - the timing couldn’t be more suspicious. These thugs never change their MO do they? With all the scandals breaking bush&co needed a distraction. They’re so obvious and predictable.
I can hear the phone call from cheney now: “Get me a God-damn confession NOW!!! I don’t care if you have to cut off his balls and stuff him in his mouth! Get FOX on the line!”
March 15th, 2007 at 3:49 pmWhy am I not surprised that you cowardly, useless, spineless liberals would side with this piece of crap! God help this country if you ever controlled our military!
Comment by michael
Go change you pants, Chickenshit Michael, you smell like old piss and cold sweat.
March 15th, 2007 at 3:50 pmZooey is a little steamed today. PMS???
March 15th, 2007 at 3:55 pmZooey,
You are certainly correct that we have had our issues before. We have also (kinda) gotten along before. But you seem surprised that I may take a patronizing tone with you when the very first posting (#80) you addressed to me today was “F*ck you, Exley.”
I am a big boy and can certainly tolerate the slings and arrows that are so commonplace around here. In fact, I enjoy a good, mature debate.
What I cannot tolerate (but also find amusing) is your double-standard, by which you claim the freedom to hurl any invective at any time at someone, but recoil in horror when someone criticizes you or calls you on your insults. You can be a bit of a hypocrite sometimes, Zooey.
March 15th, 2007 at 3:57 pm“Go change you pants, Chickenshit Michael, you smell like old piss and cold sweat.
Comment by Zooey — March 15, 2007 @ 3:50 pm”
When stupid liberals have nothing intelligent to say well, read zooey’s comment about. Typical 3rd grade rant!
March 15th, 2007 at 4:00 pmKSM is the ‘real killer’ of Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman.
Comment by CONservative — March 15, 2007 @ 1:24 pm
Well if he didn’t then Bill Clinton Did :^}
March 15th, 2007 at 4:01 pm“In fact, I enjoy a good, mature debate.
Comment by Exley — March 15, 2007 @ 3:57 pm”
Well Exley your wasting your time with zooey!
March 15th, 2007 at 4:03 pmZooey is a little steamed today. PMS???
Comment by Flaco — March 15, 2007 @ 3:55 pm
Zooey is Pi$$ing on Moronic Statements,
like yours???
A troll is a troll is a troll is a troll, that can’t debate that can’t debate that can’t debate.
Sheesh, just when I was having fun, refill requests come floodin’ in.
March 15th, 2007 at 4:04 pmTake care all
(and it’s great to be back, even if for limited times)
When stupid liberals have nothing intelligent to say well, read zooey’s comment about. Typical 3rd grade rant!
Comment by michael
You don’t have the first idea what intelligence means, Michael, let alone practice it.
Our debate is still pending. Time to run away again!
March 15th, 2007 at 4:05 pmI’m done with you bloodthirsty torture appeasers. You make me sick.
March 15th, 2007 at 4:08 pmreal quick zooey…
March 15th, 2007 at 4:09 pmWSU up by 17 with 4 minutes left!!!
Lady Justice is blinded by torture so no one in the world takes these confessions or closed door trials seriously.
March 15th, 2007 at 4:12 pm68. Comment by John — March 15, 2007 @ 1:30 pm
Great Link
If we hold and question his children we can get him to confess.
Michael, Ashley can we ask you some questions about your father, does he drive without his seatbelt? Ashley, “I can’t see over the front seat I don’t know.” How about you young man? Michael, “I don’t remember if he uses it every time.” Yes you do kid don’t lie to us!
March 15th, 2007 at 4:15 pmMr. Ryan, “I confess, I confess I’ve never worn my seatbelt, I don’t even know how it works. Please don’t scare my children any more.”
That’s right Mr. Ryan you needed to come clean now get into the cell!
Okay kids you go walk home now the streets are safer. The bad guys are behind bars.
DRxJ,
Are you surprised? If Washington State can’t beat Oral Roberts U., they are in serious trouble.
March 15th, 2007 at 4:20 pmThey RESURRECTED Sir Laurence Olivier’s CORPSE so he could re-enact his MARATHON MAN(tm) Nazi Dentist “IS IT SAFE, Khalid?” They also asked Dan Rather’s assailants to lend a hand “Khalid, WHAT IS THE FREQUENCY?” As well as Torquemada , The Marquis De Sade and his Auntie MAIM!!!!!
March 15th, 2007 at 4:22 pm“Who WHUPPED that flesh right off of my back–MAIM!
Who BASTINADOED me half to death–MAIM!
Who used a CAT O’ NINE TAILS tipped with BROKEN GLASS
To CARVE a TATOO on my BLOODY FLAYED ASS
And BEAT a RAGTIME RHYTHM on my BRAIN-MAIM!
Who is the MASTER TORTURER
Who MAKES ALL SCREAM FOR SUCCOR NOW
Who ELSE BUT CHIMPya’s AUNTIE M-A-I-M!
MAIM-MAIM-MAIM MAIM MAIM!!!!!
Show me some evidence Not Confessions
why no impeachment for Bush
Because if America gets attacked we will kill millions we will destroy all the property we can ………. Dont let it happen again
Signed Pelosi
March 15th, 2007 at 4:23 pm“F*ck you, Exley.â€
I am a big boy and can certainly tolerate the slings and arrows that are so commonplace around here. In fact, I enjoy a good, mature debate.
What I cannot tolerate (but also find amusing) is your double-standard, by which you claim the freedom to hurl any invective at any time at someone, but recoil in horror when someone criticizes you or calls you on your insults. You can be a bit of a hypocrite sometimes, Zooey.
Comment by Exley
Zooey was the first one here to teach me how to use the F word and not get deleted at TP.
It brings back childhood memories of when I first heard the F word from a little 3rd grade girl. Maybe that was her back then. Seems like Zooey is still in 3rd grade maybe, never grew I guess???
March 15th, 2007 at 4:25 pmFirst of all, it is not the Pentagon who chooses to redact the information. It is the judge who makes the decision on motion of counsel. In other words, it is the attorney who asks the judge to delete or substitute information available to the defendant if he or she feels it is necessary to protect from disclosure the sources, methods, or activities by which the United States acquired evidence.
You’re splitting hairs; if counsel didn’t request the redaction at the behest of the Pentagon the judge would never have reason to consider it, would he/she? By “Pentagon” I mean all it’s functionaries. So, while a judge may be the ultimate arbiter, to say “the Pentagon” ordered the redaction is still correct, isn’t it?
March 15th, 2007 at 4:31 pmF#ck you, Flaco. Do you have you got a brother?
F#ck him too.
March 15th, 2007 at 4:33 pmBarfly,
All right, sir. Fair enough.
But I wanted to point out that it is not a unilateral decision. And the judge’s decision is reviewable on appeal.
March 15th, 2007 at 4:35 pm“Our debate is still pending. Time to run away again!
Comment by Zooey — March 15, 2007 @ 4:05 pm”
Ok, I’ll start, why did it take kerry over 5 years to get his Honorable Discharge?
March 15th, 2007 at 4:36 pmSince the Pentagon isn’t allowing the press or lawyers into these ‘hearings’ and has said it may ‘edit’ the transcripts these claims can be dismissed as worthless propaganda.
If KSM or Al Qa’ida beheaded Daniel Pearl then why did his kidnappers demand the sale of US jet fighters to Pakistan?
That suggests Pakistan’s ISI military intelligence were the culprits and that Pearl had found out too much about their activities for their liking.
March 15th, 2007 at 4:37 pm“Lady Justice is blinded by torture so no one in the world takes these confessions or closed door trials seriously.
Comment by Fools on the Hill — March 15, 2007 @ 4:12 pm”
I do! And I hope they pulled his fingernails out also!
March 15th, 2007 at 4:38 pmExlax and Flaccid
Hope you two are proud of your war mongering, torture advocating, unAmerican selves.
Some of us, mostly nonRepublicans believe in the Constitution, Bill of Rights and Civil Liberties. We love our country but loved it even better before this administration lost all the respect we previously had in the world.
You can keep your stupid opinions, that’s your right, but why don’t you take your opinions somewhere you can expound on them with like thinking people and work for your party constructively.
If you don’t want to do that, why don’t you just Go
March 15th, 2007 at 4:41 pmF*CK YOURSELVES.
Ok, I’ll start, why did it take kerry over 5 years to get his Honorable Discharge?
Comment by michael
Heh, “Honorable discharges;” is that why your boxers are so stiff?
March 15th, 2007 at 4:44 pm“You can keep your stupid opinions, that’s your right, but why don’t you take your opinions somewhere you can expound on them with like thinking people and work for your party constructively.
If you don’t want to do that, why don’t you just Go
F*CK YOURSELVES.
Comment by shane — March 15, 2007 @ 4:41 pm”
Wow! Did you think of all those words by yourself? I don’t enjoy bloging with like minded people. I much prefer annoying and challenging fools!
March 15th, 2007 at 4:47 pmThings to think about:::9-11 is the myth of the early 21st century. One job of the Bushies is to sell, sell, sell terrorism and the fear state. Bin Laden has not been caught but a boogey man is needed. And to those 9-11 Truth people who challenge the idea of terrorism as our new enemy (conveniently following Russia), how dare you, since this here tortured man proves the terrorist agenda. No, Americans, wake up and smell the Cheney! Is it really a surprise to see Haliburton moving to Dubai? Anymore than the Justice department investigating itself declaring “We are innocent!”?
March 15th, 2007 at 4:55 pmYou can be a bit of a hypocrite sometimes, Zooey.
Comment by Exley
No, she is not. Let me try to explain.
Zoo is not repressed in the sense that she uses foul language. I like that, insults are words that emphasize our opinion on some issues. I have never read a comment from Zoo that is low like, say MA, who doesnt use foul language but makes low comments like the joke about her dead kid.
In comparison, you never use foul words but your tone can be insulting sometimes. You are aware of that. But thats not the problem, Ex. What is a really horrible is that you would go and defend torture, genocide and assasinations for purposes contained in what you call patriotism. That is an insult to human integrity and life.
March 15th, 2007 at 5:07 pmAnd you are a hypocrite that find outragegous terrorism practices like beheadings or bombing of civilians but defend, with some law inane arguments, the bombing of civilians by US forces, the use of torture on terrorist suspects, the banning of habeas corpus, the use of chemical weapons, the reinterpretation of Geneva Conventions, the illegal surveillance of US people, etc. In that sense, Zoo can insult all she wants, she is a far better person than you will ever be. Why? She respects human life and rights. You, in your fear built world, dont.
“In comparison, you never use foul words but your tone can be insulting sometimes. You are aware of that. But thats not the problem, Ex. What is a really horrible is that you would go and defend torture, genocide and assasinations for purposes contained in what you call patriotism. That is an insult to human integrity and life.
And you are a hypocrite that find outragegous terrorism practices like beheadings or bombing of civilians but defend, with some law inane arguments, the bombing of civilians by US forces, the use of torture on terrorist suspects, the banning of habeas corpus, the use of chemical weapons, the reinterpretation of Geneva Conventions, the illegal surveillance of US people, etc. In that sense, Zoo can insult all she wants, she is a far better person than you will ever be. Why? She respects human life and rights. You, in your fear built world, dont.
Comment by Juan C — March 15, 2007 @ 5:07 pm”
And these clowns think they can safeguard our freedoms? God help us!
March 15th, 2007 at 5:16 pmExley, a man held by the military is being tortured for information. He knows that the military has kidnapped and is holding his children. I believe that the man will say anything to save his children from the torture he is experiencing.
You had the frickin gall to compare this to the state holding a bad parent’s kids in foster care while they are investigating the bad parent. That’s ju