Sadr rallies Shiites against U.S. presence.
By on Mar 16th, 2007 at 6:51 pm
Sadr rallies Shiites against U.S. presence.
“After weeks of cooperation with a new security plan, radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr decried U.S. forces as occupiers Friday and called on his followers to ’shout “No, No America!”‘ in a sign of resurgent anger and opposition. Thousands of Shiites flooded from the mosque where al-Sadr’s statement was read by a preacher at Friday prayers, spilling into the streets of the Sadr City slum to protest the two-week-old American military presence there.”
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I would be doing the same thing if I were he, watching Pelosi and the other Democrats trying to get the U.S. out of Iraq.
March 16th, 2007 at 6:54 pmJake, Glad to see you want the troops out of Iraq.
March 16th, 2007 at 7:00 pmI don’t, goose1, not until the job is done. I was posing a hypothetical as if I were a terrorist in Iraq.
March 16th, 2007 at 7:02 pmMuqtada al-Sadr is going to be killed by the Americans he has over 100 MPs asking for the US to leave , But most importantly he has over 100 votes for “no Oil Contracts to America”
He is the one person stopping the oil contracts
March 16th, 2007 at 7:03 pmWhat’s the military reason the troops are there Jake? And why haven’t they been properly supported by the winners of the no bid contracts Jake? How long does a military have to stand still (not what they do best) waiting for what to flourish?
Jake, the military was let down in the planning stages of this conflict and they are paying the ulitmate price for it now.
“Until the job is done” is a slogan, not a plan.
March 16th, 2007 at 7:09 pmI don’t, goose1, not until the job is done. I was posing a hypothetical as if I were a terrorist in Iraq.
Comment by Jake — March 16, 2007 @ 7:02 pm
Good Jake. Now please explain what the job is and how we’ll know when it’s done. Please.
March 16th, 2007 at 7:11 pmBut most importantly he has over 100 votes for “no Oil Contracts to Americaâ€
He is the one person stopping the oil contracts
Comment by Tobey Tall — March 16, 2007 @ 7:03 pm
Are you saying that this guy is trying to keep the oil money in Iraq instead of giving it all away with Iraqis getting almost nothing – the nerve.
March 16th, 2007 at 7:13 pmWhat is the job and when can we tell when it is done? I think I missed that part of the Bush Doctrine. Please enlighten me.
March 16th, 2007 at 7:15 pm#3 Jake, I know you support the terrorist. There is nothing Hypothetical about it.
March 16th, 2007 at 7:16 pmNico and Faiz seem very excited that Mookie is organizing people against americans.
March 16th, 2007 at 7:16 pmYou guys should start a petition in support of Mookie al Sadr. He could really use your support
March 16th, 2007 at 7:17 pmThousands of Shiites flooded from the mosque where al-Sadr’s statement was read by a preacher at Friday prayers,
March 16th, 2007 at 7:20 pmLooks like the coward won’t even show up to make his own statements.
Thanks to all the chicken hawks running this exhibition of incompetence in Iraq, we lost the abomination in Iraq over three years ago. Even before Bush declared victory.
All that now remains to be seen is how many more of our finest (and Iraqis who don’t matter either) will have to die before it is politically expedient for the Republicans to state the obvious: Iran won the war in Iraq and there is fu*kall we can do about it.
Even if we could realize the ultimate jesus freak dream and convert both Iraq AND Iran into “glass-covered parking lots”, WE HAVE LOST THIS……..whatever-the-fu*k-you-want-to-call-it and a hell of a lot more.
March 16th, 2007 at 7:22 pmYes and pretending that the Democrats side with the terorists, which is why you are a low life scumbag piece of sh!t that I would knock the fu*k out, even if you are an old dried up waste of life.
March 16th, 2007 at 7:23 pmJAKE – wake up
Several of us are waiting for your answer
What is the job and how will we know when it’s done.
March 16th, 2007 at 7:24 pmThe Current Job In Iraq:
A) Let the Iraqis lead;
B) Help Iraqis protect the population;
C) Isolate extremists;
D) Create space for political progress;
E) Diversify political and economic efforts; and
F) Situate the strategy in a regional approach.
General Petraeus arrived in Baghdad in early February, and it is far too early to judge the success of his operation. However, Iraqi and U.S. forces are making gradual but important progress:
Iraqis Are Beginning To Deliver On Benchmarks To Achieve Political Reconciliation.
Iraq’s Council of Ministers approved a national hydrocarbon law that provides for an equitable distribution of oil revenues throughout the country. The draft law will need to be enacted by the Iraqi Council of Representatives when it returns from recess, but the prospects for passage are excellent because all the major parliamentary blocs are represented in the cabinet.
Last month, the Iraqi government approved a $41 billion budget that includes $10 billion dollars for reconstruction and capital investment.
Iraq’s leaders must meet the other pledges they have made. These include:
1) Narrowing the limitations of the de-Baathification law;
2) Establishing the framework and setting a date for provincial elections; and
3) Pursuing the constitutional review process.
To Succeed, Iraq’s Leaders Need The International Community’s Help.
The United States supports the Iraqi government as it pursues an international initiative to build diplomatic, economic, and security support for its young democracy. Last week, the Iraqis announced that they will hold a conference in Baghdad that will include officials from Iraq’s neighboring countries, as well as the permanent members of the United Nations Security Council, the Arab League, and the Organization of the Islamic Conference. It will be followed in April by a second conference that includes Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and her counterparts from around the world. Any more questions?
March 16th, 2007 at 7:25 pmSilence of the Lambs? Proof of US orchestration of Death Squads Killings in Iraq
by Max Fuller
Global Research, March 14, 2007
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=20070314&articleId=5081
March 16th, 2007 at 7:27 pmSorry, Shane, I was busy typing the answer. When the Iraqis stand up, we will stand down. BTW: you never did provide an answer to my question about where you think I pretended to be an attorney.
March 16th, 2007 at 7:27 pmre: #3: JakeAss, what is the “plan”. I only say that rhetorically so don’t
March 16th, 2007 at 7:27 pmwaste further bandwidth with “talking points” mantra. I am putting you
into the same camp as the terrorists . They want to kill Americans.
You want more Americans killed. Stupids such as you have no qualms with
obliging them so long as it’s not your lily ass on the business end
of a jihadist rocket launcher or IED.
Yes and pretending that the Democrats side with the terorists, which is why you are a low life scumbag piece of sh!t that I would knock the fu*k out, even if you are an old dried up waste of life.
Comment by Spudge_Boy — March 16, 2007 @ 7:23 pm
I think I’ll be reporting that comment to TP. It is one thing to dissagree and another to threaten to cause bodily harm.
March 16th, 2007 at 7:27 pmMandolin, I see you support the terrorist too!
March 16th, 2007 at 7:28 pmNow that Jake gave his plan in depth maybe someone here should step up and claim what they want to accomplish.
March 16th, 2007 at 7:30 pmPhilip:
Please re-read post # 16.
March 16th, 2007 at 7:30 pmOh yeah! Do you remember the surge proponents that Sadr had fled to Iran because he was scared of being “tooken”? Well don’t seem like he is scared one iota if he is seen in public giving a sermon denouncing America.The WH were always liars & that won’t change overnight folks.You willing to believe them,well then you should also know that I built the Brooklyn bridge myself.
March 16th, 2007 at 7:33 pmIf it wasn’t for the Turks and their Kurdish problem I’d say the country should be partitioned now as were leaving . We can wean ourselves from oil entirely with a little help from the billions we’ll be saving by not staying to protect the oil companies interests .
March 16th, 2007 at 7:34 pm#16 That is avery good cut and paste job, can you provide the link to the source.
March 16th, 2007 at 7:36 pmThanks
Comment by Jake — March 16, 2007 @ 7:25 pm
———
You forgot to add: (G) Flap our arms and fly to the moon.
Wishing for the impossible is not a game plan.
March 16th, 2007 at 7:36 pmI think I’ll be reporting that comment to TP. It is one thing to dissagree and another to threaten to cause bodily harm.
Comment by mandolin
**yawn**
March 16th, 2007 at 7:36 pmThis whole farce of an occupation is just a bad joke. The puppet regime in Iraq will totally collapse as soon as we start withdrawing American troops (actually, it is already collapsing, a little ahead of schedule…).It has virtually zero support among the Iraqi people.
The popular resistance to foreign occupation (American) has infiltrated almost all levels of this puppet regime,anyway. (Very similar to Vietnam, were it turned out that most of the South Vietnamese government was infiltrated by the National Liberation Front (”the Viet Cong,” in propaganda language of corporate American media).
Training Iraqi soldiers to oppress the Iraqi people so the Bush crime family can steal the oil? Somehow, I don’t think that it will work. The Bush criminal attack on Iraq hs been fascist colonial corporate greed from Day One.
Nothing will ever change that little known fact, but even the corporate Democrats in Congress seem to want to go through this absurd charade and pretend that there is some way to salvage American honor after this massive Bush terrorism and criminal occupation of the Iraqi people.
March 16th, 2007 at 7:38 pmSurely, Str8edge:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/01/20070110-3.html
http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/
March 16th, 2007 at 7:39 pmSo Jake does your work here come with a dental plan?
March 16th, 2007 at 7:40 pm“Until the job is done†What does this mean???? What is our job in Iraq?
March 16th, 2007 at 7:41 pmDon’t tell me it is to secure the oil and fill the 14 US bases and embassy with our military…. we would never stoop to that.
Sorry, Shane, I was busy typing the answer. When the Iraqis stand up, we will stand down. BTW: you never did provide an answer to my question about where you think I pretended to be an attorney. Comment by Jake — March 16, 2007 @ 7:27 pm
That has *nothing* to do with winning, or finishing a *job*, you r*t*rded old fool! That’s both a nebulous answer, and and open ended excuse to *continue* to fail in Iraq.
Do you blame everyone in your personal life for *your* failures in the same fashion? If so, it would explain why such a bitter, hateful, disgusting person still exists after 75 years of life in that shriveled up diaper soaked husk you live in!
Catch a clue, you’re a complete dum bass, you useless piece of sh*t!
March 16th, 2007 at 7:41 pmWell don’t seem like he is scared one iota if he is seen in public giving a sermon denouncing America.
Comment by DutchHenry — March 16, 2007 @ 7:33 pm
Read the article. Sadr had someone read it for him because he wasn’t there.
March 16th, 2007 at 7:42 pmWhat no oil deal, better turn the SS coni rice around and head home ,to Dubai .Fine Bagdad hasn’t any good shoe stores anyway.
March 16th, 2007 at 7:44 pmJakeAss, reread post #19.
March 16th, 2007 at 7:44 pmWhen man does not learn from history, history often repeats itself – just to teach him a lesson.
March 16th, 2007 at 7:45 pmThanks, I thought so. It reads alot like like Bush’s Tax Cut.
March 16th, 2007 at 7:45 pmCatch a clue, you’re a complete dum bass, you useless piece of sh*t!
Comment by ValiantVenusGrewFromUranus — March 16, 2007 @ 7:41 pm
dum bass…dum bass… I don’t get it…dum bass…you could be insinuating that he is a stupid fish but that doesn’t make sense…dum bass…dum bass…the word dumb usually has a b at the end of it… this just doesn’t make sense…dum bass… dum bass…wait a second?… oh snap!!! He stole on you Jake, he stole on you!!! Oh snap!!! That is the most clever thing I’ve ever seen. He cursed you and that same time he didn’t curse you. It all has to do with where you put the space! Oh snap! I have to hand it to you V.V.G.F.U. you are brilliant. You managed to not only insult while at the same time preserving your moral character you also avoided having your comment sensored. Oh snap! Oh snap! you are the man.
March 16th, 2007 at 7:55 pmYou’re welcome.
March 16th, 2007 at 7:56 pm#16 -Jake….you stated the first objective
A) Let the Iraqis lead…..
Are you assuming here that Sader is not an Iraqi? Have you heard of Sader City over 2 million people?
Do you know how many people follow Al Sader?
Do you know that Al Sader has a block of over 30 elected Iraqi Parliament members,and if they walk out of the coalition supporting Prime Misnister Al-Maliki, his government might collapse…?
SO when you say ….[let the Iraqis lead....], I think you are excluding Al Sader,because he is now in a Shiate triangle,similar to the Sunni triangle…
March 16th, 2007 at 7:57 pmJake: Aside from factual problems with the “plan” as you portray it (the “extremists” are deeply enmeshed in Iraqi society, and in the government and troops we’re trying to get to “stand up”, for example), there’s this:
That’s not the mission Congress authorized.
The “enemy” in Sadr city is represented by one of the largest blocs in the parliament of the government we’re supposed to be supporting and whose soverignty we’re supposed to be respecting. The parliament whose membership has offered legislation that would demand US withdrawal (and has the votes to get it), but which has been tied up in committee in violation of the Iraqi constitution because of pressure the US has placed on their prime minister. The “Shia extremists” responsible for the sectarian killings are not so much Sadr’s men as the Badr brigades of the SCIRI, and their counterparts from the Da’wa – and these are the people we’re helping “stand up” in the Iraqi army and interior ministry.
The plan you present is based on a fanciful and wildly inaccurate picture of what’s going on in Iraq, and is little more than code for indefinite colonial domination. It is doomed to failure – as is any plan based on false premises about the problem to be addressed.
March 16th, 2007 at 8:00 pmOh snap! I have to hand it to you V.V.G.F.U. you are brilliant. You managed to not only insult while at the same time preserving your moral character you also avoided having your comment sensored. Oh snap! Oh snap! you are the man. Comment by mandolin — March 16, 2007 @ 7:55 pm
When you’re done pulling your head out of Jake’s *ss, maybe you could explain to me why you CONs are so obsessed with *moral-character*, yet none of you have any? Is it *envy*?
March 16th, 2007 at 8:00 pmYou’re welcome.
Comment by Jake — March 16, 2007 @ 7:56 pm
For exposing why the GOP is littered with pedantic self righteous incompetent dum bass morons? Yeah, that gift is always *priceless* – st*pid old Git!
March 16th, 2007 at 8:01 pmComment by Jake — March 16, 2007 @ 7:25 pm
I have a better plan:
Ultimately, I think Iraq is going to be divided in three so we should just do it now (the Kurds don’t want to be apart of Iraq anyway and the Sunnis and Shiite are willing to kill each other over their differences which is not healthy for a budding democracy). We get assurances from the Kurds and the Shiites that the Sunnis will get 20 to 25 percent of the oil revenues. We ensure that all oil profits are shared among the Iraqi people with none going to any foreign entities. We kick out all American companies and start giving the reconstruction money to Iraqi companies. Implement components of FDR’s New Deal. Give the Iraqis the city we are building in the Green Zone. Convince Iraq’s middle class that fled to other countries to escape the violence to come back to the country. Tell Turkey to stay away from the Kurdish area of Iraq and threaten to f*ck up their country worse than we did in Iraq if they attempt anything. Tell Iran to keep its distance with the same threat. Try Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld in The Hague.
March 16th, 2007 at 8:01 pmJake, the Iraq Study Group, and (indirectly) the Pentagon have already basically dismissed the *Bush* plan as st*pid b*llsh*t.
That would make you, the believer of b*llsh*t. It would explain why a 75 year old man has the grasp of reality equivalent of a 12 year old boy! And mandolin, you should really exchange numbers with Jake, he could use a *boyfriend* like you. You both would benefit from a more constructive hobby of *self* exploration. In the end, maybe you won’t both be such st*pid id*ots.
March 16th, 2007 at 8:05 pmThe Iraqi government has completed the deployment of three additional Iraqi Army brigades to the capital. These additional forces join the nine National Police and seven Iraqi Army brigades already in the Greater Baghdad area. Jake
From the Washington Post:
At times, however, Bush’s assessment appeared less than fully accurate. “The Iraqi government,” the president said, “has completed the deployment of three additional Iraqi Army brigades to the capital. They said they were going to employ three brigades, and they did.” But a senior U.S. military official in Baghdad said this week that two Iraqi brigades and one battalion of a third have arrived in Baghdad. Two of the five new U.S. brigades committed under the new strategy have also arrived.
March 16th, 2007 at 8:06 pmtarazan:
That’s right, I am excluding the terrorists. Next question.
PeterW:
Thankfully, we only have ONE Commander-in-Chief under the U.S. Constitution.
ValiantVenusGrewFromUranus:
My “you’re welcome” in post # 40 was to Str8edge’s “thank you” in post # 38. I hope that answers your question.
Nat:
Your “plan” sounds about as good as just letting the South secede in 1860. Thanks anyways, but I’ll stick with Bush’s plan for now.
March 16th, 2007 at 8:10 pmBarfly:
As I said, it is just the Plan, for now. War plans rarely remain unchanged after contact with the enemy. At least there is some progress.
March 16th, 2007 at 8:12 pmIt’s especially revealing when you look at why the Iraqi-nationalist Sadr is considered a “radical element”, when the Iranian-allied SCIRI and Da’wa parties are considered “friends” and are allowed to infiltrate the army and interior ministry.
Sadr has always vociferously opposed the occupation. SCIRI and Da’wa are both biding their time and taking advantage of the occupation. The prima facia criterion on which one is judged a “radical element” is one’s superficial friendliness to the American occupation.
There is no starker proof that we’re not in there for the Iraqis, but in it for ourselves.
March 16th, 2007 at 8:13 pmYour “plan†sounds about as good as just letting the South secede in 1860. Thanks anyways, but I’ll stick with Bush’s plan for now.
Comment by Jake
Ooh, another right wing history buff.
OK, please give me an example of democracy ever being successfully installed in a country by an invading force?
Just one.
And Japan, doesn’t count, as we didn’t invade, only pushed back their invasion.
Or you could admit that, historically speaking, it was an experiment that was doomed to failure, given what we learned from the failures of Vietnam.
March 16th, 2007 at 8:18 pmThankfully, we only have ONE Commander-in-Chief under the U.S. Constitution.
Thankfully, all power to regulate the military is granted to Congress, under Article I Section 8.
Because it’s clear that the Commander-in-Chief is a delusional dictator-wannabe who is incapable of managing our foreign policy.
What is it with you people and the phrase “Commander-in-Chief” anyway? Aside from it being the English equivalent of imperator, the Constitution doesn’t specify any powers that accrue to the President in his capacity as CiC, other than the obvious – that he is the top of the chain of command of the military. On the other hand, the Constitution specifies enormous legislative and regulatory powers over the military, yes even to the point of micromanagement, and you people simply pretend that these explicitly stated powers of the Congress simply aren’t there – instead investing all sorts of “dear leader” fantasies into the bare title “Commander-in-Chief”.
March 16th, 2007 at 8:18 pm# 45 Nat
March 16th, 2007 at 8:19 pmSounds like a more reasonable plan to me than most I’ve heard .It removes the major reasons for conflict, gives the Iraqi’s what they probably want by now anyway,and requires far less effort than acting as the referee in a civil war .
Let the loyal (?) oil companies defend themselves ,or hire blackwater mercenaries to do it .With record profit they should be able to buy a small army! It must be cheaper than buying the entire US government.Perhaps they’ll want to purchase all those unoccupied bases and the worlds largest Embassy,since we won’t be needing them and God knows after 6 years of fiscal conservatism we could use the cash.
As I said, it is just the Plan, for now. War plans rarely remain unchanged after contact with the enemy. At least there is some progress. Comment by Jake — March 16, 2007 @ 8:12 pm
Yes, a sh*tty plan, that’s failed for 4 years, and that everyone from the ISG, to the Pentagon says needs to change. You idiots think if you keep bashing your sh*t filled skulls against the wall, eventually gold will fall out of your ears. You’re st*pid fools.
March 16th, 2007 at 8:20 pmAnd Japan, doesn’t count, as we didn’t invade, only pushed back their invasion.
To elaborate:
Japan and Germany don’t count for two reasons: they lost wars they started. Deep down, their people knew they were the aggressors, and they knew that they had lost honestly. The Iraqis know, deep down, that they didn’t start this fight, they didn’t deserve to have our boots in their streets, and they’re not going to simply take it. Even the factions that are cooperating with us (for now) are not our friends – they are opportunists.
The other reason is this: Germany and Japan had geared up for total war, which means the conscription of the majority of the fighting age males, just those people who would launch an insurgency. When these soldiers were captured, they were out of the fight – not to mention the attrition. Iraq was not geared up for total war, and those soldiers it had were casually dismissed back into the population with the dissolution of the Iraqi army. The insurgency and sectatian militias were inevitable.
March 16th, 2007 at 8:22 pmJake sez:
“Bush’s plan”…now that’s a laugh.
Jake, we’ve been following “Bush’s plan” for four years now…what makes you think sticking with that is the answer?
Given this administration’s spectacular failure at all its stated goals, there are two possible explanations. One: this administration is the most incompetent in the history of the planet, or two: this administration’s actual goals are significantly different from the ’stated’ goals it professes to be striving for.
As for which explanation is more likely, I’ll leave that as an exercise for the reader.
March 16th, 2007 at 8:23 pmAs I said, it is just the Plan, for now. War plans rarely remain unchanged after contact with the enemy. At least there is some progress.
Comment by Jake
And the fact that they spun the numbers to put a good face on it, that’s ok with you? I knew this factoid was baloney when you posted it. You really shouldn’t be taking what they say at face value any longer. They will say anything.
March 16th, 2007 at 8:25 pmYour “plan†sounds about as good as just letting the South secede in 1860. Thanks anyways, but I’ll stick with Bush’s plan for now.
Comment by Jake — March 16, 2007 @ 8:10 pm
The South tried to secede and we fought the Civil War to save the union. In the case of Iraq were trying to stop a megalomania (Bush) who invaded another country without provocation. I think I presented a good plan. I especially like the “Try Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld in The Hague” part.
March 16th, 2007 at 8:26 pmAs I said, it is just the Plan, for now.
It’s not a plan, Jake. It’s just a series of goals in bulletpoint form. A plan is how you get from here to said goals. A good plan understands what “here” is, and has a reasonable mechanism to get “there”. A ridiculous plan (in the literal sense of worthy of ridicule) doesn’t understand what the starting point is, has ill-defined goals, and substitutes plausible courses of action for wishful thinking and platitudes. Your plan is firmly in the latter category.
March 16th, 2007 at 8:26 pmYou really shouldn’t be taking what they say at face value any longer. They will say anything. Comment by Barfly — March 16, 2007 @ 8:25 pm
Idiots like Jake need propaganda and lies, the *truth* scares the sh*t out of an old fool like him.
March 16th, 2007 at 8:27 pmFrom Orwell:
March 16th, 2007 at 8:29 pmHis mind slid away into the labyrinthine world of doublethink. To know and not to know, to be conscious of complete truthfulness while telling carefully-constructed lies, to hold simultaneously two opinions which cancelled out, knowing them to be contradictory and believing in both of them; to use logic against logic, to repudiate morality while laying claim to it, to believe that democracy was impossible and that the Party was the guardian of democracy; to forget whatever it was necessary to forget, then to draw it back at the moment when it was needed, and then promptly to forget it again: and above all, to apply the same process to the process itself. That was the ultimate subtlety: consciously to induce unconsciousness, and then, once again, to become unconscious of the art of hypnosis you had just performed. Even to understand the word ‘doublethink’ involved using doublethink.
A civil war whose outcome is decided by an outside power ?Doesn’t sound like it will have much chance of success, jake.If the US were occupied by a foreign power ,who had offered major support for our dictator and then bombed us for a decade before deposing this same dictator leading to the deaths of 650 000 and occupying our country , would you be advocating rebellion or co operation with that Foreign invader ?
March 16th, 2007 at 8:30 pmAs a good American I doubt you’d be there throwing flowers .Judging from your comments I bet you’d be very good at constructing IED’s ,and we’d be brothers in arms .Do you think that Iraqi’s would feel any difference?
Iraq’s Council of Ministers approved a national hydrocarbon law that provides for an equitable distribution of oil revenues throughout the country. The draft law will need to be enacted by the Iraqi Council of Representatives when it returns from recess, but the prospects for passage are excellent because all the major parliamentary blocs are represented in the cabinet. Jake
And one of those would be “Mookie’s” bloc – and who doesn’t want to share oil revenue with the hated Sunnis.
More Bullsh#t.
March 16th, 2007 at 8:34 pmI’m still waiting for the example, Jake.
Or you could admit the truth . . .
March 16th, 2007 at 8:36 pmAnd one of those would be “Mookie’s†bloc – and who doesn’t want to share oil revenue with the hated Sunnis.
Not quite. “Mookie” Sadr actually has repeatedly reached across sectartian lines. He sent volunteers to bring supplies to break the siege of Fallujah, for example. He’s probably fooling himself that the Mehdi army isn’t attacking Sunnis generally, but just the terrorists preying on Shia – and the Mehdi army owes allegiance to him, but apparently he has limited operational control over it.
The Sadrists’ objection to the oil law isn’t, from what I understand, dividing the money with other Iraqis – but the fact that control of the oil is taken from the central government and put in the hands of foreign corporations. And they’re not the only ones objecting to this.
March 16th, 2007 at 8:42 pmI must have missed where you asked for an example of something. Can you give me the post #?
March 16th, 2007 at 8:43 pmOh, an example of democracy ever being successfully installed in a country by an invading force? How about Germany (or did we not invade and overthrow the Nazis either?) or South Korea? I’ll have to check if Vietnam is a democracy yet too.
March 16th, 2007 at 8:46 pmI must have missed where you asked for an example of something. Can you give me the post #? Comment by Jake — March 16, 2007 @ 8:43 pm
You miss *everything* that’s relevant. That’s the point, dum bass!
March 16th, 2007 at 8:48 pmJake sez:
Post #51, Jake.
Man, that scroll wheel is really something…you ought to consider learning how to use it.
Stop stalling.
March 16th, 2007 at 8:53 pmNope, according to the CIA Factbook (one good thing about today’s Plame testimony is now many Democrats are now on record as fully supporting the men and women at said organization, after so many decades of calling them drug-runners and murderers):
Vietnam is still a Communist state — too bad the Democrats cut off funding before we could win that war too.
https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/vm.html
March 16th, 2007 at 8:59 pmThat’s right, ValiantVenusGrewFromUranus, I am the one who misses *everything* that’s relevant. You’re getting very sleepy . . .
March 16th, 2007 at 9:00 pmJapan is an oliogarchy with a thin democratic veneer. In practice, it has been for almost all of the post-war period a one-party state where all decisions are made by “consensus” behind closed doors.
Germany had indigenous democratic institutions (abuse of which is what brought the Nazis to power in the first place), so we didn’t install anything there so much as act as caretakers in the post-war chaos – a war, as I mention above, the Germans started, knew they started, and felt quite contrite about.
South Korea was a “friendly” right-wing dictatorship for many decades after the Korean war. So it can not be said that we installed a democracy there – though one did eventually form.
As for Vietnam, it’s still a Communist dictatorship, but a considerably more benevolent government than the right-wing dictatorships we were propping up in the south.
Jake, you really need to get a clue.
March 16th, 2007 at 9:04 pmOh, an example of democracy ever being successfully installed in a country by an invading force? How about Germany (or did we not invade and overthrow the Nazis either?) or South Korea? I’ll have to check if Vietnam is a democracy yet too. Comment by Jake — March 16, 2007 @ 8:46 pm
Actually Germany already was a democracy – we just overthrew their leader and forced a new election. We didn’t *install* a democracy. We also didn’t *install* a democracy in South Korea, it already existed – we defended it.
For someone that *pretends* to know a lot, you’re an ignorant idiot.
March 16th, 2007 at 9:06 pmThat’s right, ValiantVenusGrewFromUranus, I am the one who misses *everything* that’s relevant. You’re getting very sleepy . . . Comment by Jake — March 16, 2007 @ 9:00 pm
You sure are the one that misses *everything* that’s relevant, and that’s why you were so stupid that you thought we *installed* democracy in two countries that already had it!
I’m getting sleepy? What kind of mentally retarded idiocy is that? How old are you 6?
You’re a st*pid little rodent, weasel boy.
March 16th, 2007 at 9:08 pmSouth Korea was a “friendly†right-wing dictatorship for many decades after the Korean war. So it can not be said that we installed a democracy there – though one did eventually form.
Jake, you really need to get a clue.
Comment by PeterW — March 16, 2007 @ 9:04 pm
Yes but we *claimed* SKorea was a democracy, and it did have elections in a rudimentary form if I recall.
Jake is making the same debunked claim that all of the right wingnut sites post. This is such a tired old talking point that Jake must be a 12 year old boy if he’s st*pid enough to repeat it!
March 16th, 2007 at 9:09 pmWell, VVGFU, Jake performed well for a while, but I do believe he is finally broken. Arguing with him is like playing with a soccer ball that has a slow leak…works well at first, but soon you’re forced to kick the ball harder and harder, and you get less and less performance in return…
Time to requisition a new troll from the TP staff. ^_^
March 16th, 2007 at 9:16 pmI think he admitted accidentally he wasn;t sure that bush ever won an election legitimately and that’s finished him off.
March 16th, 2007 at 9:32 pmNo way!!!! I just read that “Plus Up” was having success due to the shared agenda of the US Forces and al Sadr!!! What happened?
March 16th, 2007 at 9:44 pmNo, freeman, I took the 5th on that question.
March 16th, 2007 at 9:47 pmIf your not sure a sitting president is legitimate Jake , are you really going to defend him ?
March 16th, 2007 at 9:54 pmYou seem like a good guy despite your politics , but continue defending a usurper to the throne and you’ll leave no doubt that you are no friend of America or democracy .
Worse yet you’ll lose my respect.
Jake sez:
So….you refused to answer on the grounds that you may incriminate yourself???
That’s even dumber than usual, Jake.
Go take a hot bath and go to bed. You’re overtired.
March 16th, 2007 at 9:58 pmOh, an example of democracy ever being successfully installed in a country by an invading force? How about Germany (or did we not invade and overthrow the Nazis either?) or South Korea? I’ll have to check if Vietnam is a democracy yet too.
Comment by Jake
You really don’t know much about history: the Germans were attacking us before we officially declared war. They were the “invaders” not us.
As I thought; your knowledge of history is laughable. The correct answer is: there are no examples of democracy being successfully installed by an invader. Thanks for demonstrating your ignorance.
March 16th, 2007 at 10:01 pmGood golly, Miss Molly- And Brian Williams on NBC just got through saying how quiet and serene the city is now, too. What the hell happened? Did someone get blown up or raped again? This is really going to throw the surge off schedule, isn’t it? Hmmm…
March 16th, 2007 at 10:22 pmJAKE
When the Iraqis stand up, we will stand down
What do you mean? How will we know when the Iraqis stand up. What will be the indication that they have stood up. How will we know that we can stand down. Please explain.
March 16th, 2007 at 10:32 pmAnother clarification needed regarding Germany and WWII:
Germany was a democracy before the advent of the Nazi rule; German defeat at the hands of the allies (and the occupation) restored the democratic institutions that already existed -Hitler and his cronies all but destroyed them under the pretext of saving their nation.
March 16th, 2007 at 10:33 pmThe trolls have ENTIRELY disappeared !
My work is done here ,somewhere there’s a planet out there that needs my super powers .SHAAAAZAAAAM.
But first I’ll have to remove this ridiculous outfit .
March 16th, 2007 at 10:36 pmJust follow me to Carthage.
March 16th, 2007 at 10:42 pmForgive me but…
…can someone PLEASE explain to me…
…how “military” professionals…
…could accept a mission from…
…DESERTERS and DEFERMENT kings…
…to OCCUPY a country and quell a civil war…
…between 25 MILLION people…
…using 150,000 troops?
March 16th, 2007 at 11:14 pmAuthor openly cheering on the Mahdi Army. You people really are traitors.
March 16th, 2007 at 11:16 pmYou people really are traitors.
Comment by Glen #89
Glen,
You ignorant Bush worshipping slut…
…you’re so BLINDED by your slavish devotion to your Party leaders…
…who have CLEARLY USED and abused your home-schooled inbred a*s…
…that you can’t tell the difference between mere reporting of facts…
…(that GRANTED you don’t want to hear)…
…and “cheering” for the “enemy”…
…Glen YOU (and your inbred kind) have become the ENEMIES of THINKING people worldwide…
…if you want to pray to the criminal Bushite junta five times a day, and sacrifice your children to their greater glory and PROFIT…
…that’s YOUR prerogative…
…but DON’T expect US to shut down our brains, and close OUR eyes…
… TP is reporting what MOST of us here had already predicted when Bushiva’s “surge” was revealed…
…that al Sadr’s Mahdti Army would go underground, then resurface at a later time…
…and it’s actually happening sooner than we thought…
…so WHAT makes TP Liberal Progressive posters traitors?
…aren’t we right and you’re the one who is delusional?
…why aren’t YOU the traitor Glen?
March 16th, 2007 at 11:36 pmRe: #16
The following is from the SAME website:
from whitehouse.gov January 28, 2003:
“30,000 munitions capable of delivering chemical agents”…”25,000 liters of anthrax — enough doses to kill several million people”….”500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent”…..”materials sufficient to produce more than 38,000 liters of botulinum toxin “……”several mobile biological weapons labs”….”Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa”…..”high-strength aluminum tubes suitable for nuclear weapons production”….
Did that turn out to be true or false?
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice………..Won’t get fooled again!
March 17th, 2007 at 12:11 amAre these the terrorists that we are there to fight over there so they won’t kill us here or are they Iraqis who want to control how their country is to be run in the present and future?
March 17th, 2007 at 12:28 amSadr is waiting to order his followers for an all out attack on US troops, so before it happens the Congress must pull the troops out of Baghdad and start the withdrawal out of Iraq.
March 17th, 2007 at 12:45 amSINCE Sadr LOVES US SO MUCH(sarcasm) WHAT THE HELL ARE WE DOING AS SITTING DUCKS THERE? GET THOSE TROOPS THE HELL OUT OF Iraq NOW!!!!!
March 17th, 2007 at 1:51 amPeterW just kicked ass in this thread.
March 17th, 2007 at 2:18 amReading responses of BBC listeners to Mohammed’s confession reveals that the rest of the world is either laughing at the US government for being so stupid as to think that anyone anywhere would believe the confession or damning the Bush regime for being like the Gestapo and KGB.
March 17th, 2007 at 6:36 amThe US government does not care that innocent people have been ensnared, because the US government desperately needs both to prove that there are vast numbers of terrorists and to demonstrate its proficiency in protecting Americans by capturing terrorists. Moreover, the US government needs “dangerous suspects” that it can use to keep Americans in a state of supine fearfulness and as a front behind which to undermine constitutional protections and the Bill of Rights.
The Bush-Cheney Regime succeeded in its evil plot, only to throw it all away by releasing the ridiculous confession by Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.
Will Bush’s totalitarian Military Tribunal now execute Mohammed on the basis of his confession extracted by torture, or would this be seen everywhere on earth as nothing but an act of murder?
If Bush can’t have Mohammed murdered, the US government will have to shut Mohammed away where he cannot talk and tell his tale. The US government will have to replicate Orwell’s memory hole by destroying Mohammed’s mind with mind-altering drugs and abuse.
It is to such depths that George Bush and Dick Cheney have lowered America.
March 17th, 2007 at 6:39 am