Top Bush Official Reveals White House Never Investigated Plame Leak
Top Bush Official Reveals White House Never Investigated Plame Leak
Dr. James Knodell, director of the Office of Security at the White House, revealed today that to his knowledge the White House has never ordered a probe, report, or sanctions as a result of the outing of covert CIA operative Valerie Plame. “I have no knowledge of any investigation in my office,” he said.
Rep. Elijah Cummings (D-MD) said he was “shocked” by Knodell’s testimony, adding that the White House’s lack of action was a “breach on top of a breach.”
Knodell claimed the White House did not investigate because there was an outside investigation taking place. But Rep. Henry Waxman (D-CA) noted that the investigation “didn’t start until months and months later, and [only] had the purpose of narrowly looking to see whether there was a criminal law violated.” Waxman asked, “But there was an obligation for the White House to investigate whether classified information was being leaked inappropriately, wasn’t there?” Knodell answered, “If that was the case, yes.” Watch it:
Shortly after the leak was revealed by Novak, Bush said he wanted an investigation to identify the leaker:
A senior official quoted Bush as saying, “I want to get to the bottom of this,” during a daily meeting yesterday morning with a few top aides, including Rove.
Bush: “If there is a leak out of my administration, I want to know who it is.“
E&P reports, “The White House had first opposed Knodell testifying but after a threat of a subpoena from the committee yesterday he was allowed to appear today.” The Gavel has more.
UPDATE: Rep. Waxman wrote a letter to White House Chief of Staff Josh Bolten asking him to explain why the White House failed to conduct any investigation following the disclosure of Valerie Plame Wilson’s covert CIA employment. Read it here.
Transcript:
CUMMINGS: Let me ask you a few questions, because in answering some of the chairman’s questions, you left me shocked. And I want to make sure I heard you right.
Are you saying, with regard to this case — that is the outing of Valerie Plame Wilson — there is no report?
KNODELL: Not in my office; there is not.
CUMMINGS: And are you also saying that there was no investigation?
KNODELL: Not by my office.
CUMMINGS: Not by your office. And so you would — I could conclude then that there were no sanctions. Is that correct? No sanctions within your office? I mean — is it one of your jobs, is it part of your job to recommend sanctions where you find that there is then a breach?
KNODELL: Correct. But there was already an outside investigation that was taking place — criminal investigation. That’s why we took no action.
CUMMINGS: Now, one of your main objectives for being in the White House is to make sure that you — make sure that these kinds of things don’t happen. Is that right?
KNODELL: Correct.
CUMMINGS: And I would assume that if anyone were to take the job that you took, that one of their — in considering what happened before you got there — that this would be something that would be on the minds of everybody, because, again, this is like bells ringing, alarms going off.
CUMMINGS: This is the kind of thing that you don’t want to do, because this could end up in your lap. Is that right?
KNODELL: In this particular case, you’re absolutely right. This started long before my tenure in this position. By the time I took the position, the criminal investigation was already under way.
CUMMINGS: But did you look into it at all? You didn’t look into it at all?
KNODELL: Right.
CUMMINGS: I mean, just so that you could make sure you did your job right and didn’t allow this to happen again?
KNODELL: We didn’t want to have collateral investigations going on at the same time, sir.
CUMMINGS: So if there is a criminal investigation and you have got to — you’re trying to make sure it doesn’t happen again, so you don’t even look into it at all?
In other words, you, as the guy — you’re the guy who is responsible for guarding all of this and making sure that everything goes right. So it sounds to me like we had a breach on top of a breach. We had one situation where Ms. Valerie Plame Wilson’s identity and covert status was disclosed. And then within the very office within the White House, there’s no report, there’s no investigation and there are no sanctions.
KNODELL: Sir, again, any reporting would have taken place prior to my arriving into the office.
CUMMINGS: Now, the criminal case is…
WAXMAN: Will the gentleman yield to me…
CUMMINGS: Of course.
WAXMAN: … because I just want to pin this point down? Do you know whether there was an investigation at the White House after the leaks came out?
KNODELL: I don’t have any knowledge of an investigation within my office.
WAXMAN: Ever?
KNODELL: I do not.
WAXMAN: Because the president said he was investigating this matter and was going to get the bottom of it. You’re not aware that any investigation took place?
KNODELL: Not within my office, sir.
WAXMAN: And if there was an investigation, what were you referring to, Mr. Fitzgerald’s investigation?
KNODELL: Yes, the outside investigation.
WAXMAN: OK, that didn’t start until months and months later, and that had the purpose of narrowly looking to see whether there was a criminal law violated. But there was an obligation for the White House to investigate whether classified information was being leaked inappropriately, wasn’t there?
KNODELL: If that was the case, yes.
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March 16th, 2007 at 2:58 pmI'd say they're all pretty well screwed
March 16th, 2007 at 2:59 pmOf course the trolls will find some reason to be happy about this.
March 16th, 2007 at 2:59 pmOF COURSE there was no investigation! We knew it was lip service the moment that line came out of the emperor's mouth! Why investigate when you already know the answer?
March 16th, 2007 at 2:59 pmstunning
March 16th, 2007 at 3:00 pmYet more OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE.
March 16th, 2007 at 3:00 pmWhy not ask, Did anyone tell you specifically NOT to investigate?
March 16th, 2007 at 3:00 pmIf they investigated it, they would be interviewing themselves. They could just stand in the mirror and ask themselves if they committed a crime.
March 16th, 2007 at 3:01 pmAre we sure it wasn't KSM who masterminded this whole thing. I'm sure if we asked him, he'd fess up. So long as we "persuaded" him properly.
March 16th, 2007 at 3:03 pmGeorge W. Bush, Liar in Chief
March 16th, 2007 at 3:03 pmKarl Rove, Minister of Mendacity
For all the latest CIA leak/PlameGate news, legal documents, timelines and other essential materials surrounding the Bush administration's outing of covert CIA operative Valerie Plame and its politics of payback against Joseph Wilson, see:
March 16th, 2007 at 3:03 pm"The CIA Leak/PlameGate Resource Center."
More President Bush on October 7, 2003:
"Well, the investigators will ask our staff about what people did or did not do. This is a town of -- where a lot of people leak. And I've constantly expressed my displeasure with leaks, particularly leaks of classified information. And I want to know, I want to know the truth. I want to see to it that the truth prevail. And I hope we can get this investigation done in a thorough way, as quickly as possible...
...I mean this town is a -- is a town full of people who like to leak information. And I don't know if we're going to find out the senior administration official. Now, this is a large administration, and there's a lot of senior officials. I don't have any idea. I'd like to. I want to know the truth. That's why I've instructed this staff of mine to cooperate fully with the investigators -- full disclosure, everything we know the investigators will find out. I have no idea whether we'll find out who the leaker is -- partially because, in all due respect to your profession, you do a very good job of protecting the leakers. But we'll find out."
March 16th, 2007 at 3:06 pmCalling all piss ants! Hurry and defend the actions of the whores in the White House.
Hurry now you little bitches, there may not be enough smag to give you all a lick.
Patsy? Firefly? Joke? Micky Big Mouth???
March 16th, 2007 at 3:06 pmTP - Where's your report on Victoria Toensings' testimony?? You want me to think you're fair and balanced, don't you? I would NEVER suspect TP of cherry picking info to advance the progressive agenda!
March 16th, 2007 at 3:09 pmThe emperor wears no clothes , !
March 16th, 2007 at 3:09 pmWell .... he was FOR the investigation before he was against it !
Time for some more international travel ( in countries that haven't signed the Geneva conventions) and perhaps Anna Nicole smiths resurrection.
Are we sure it wasn’t KSM who masterminded this whole thing. I’m sure if we asked him, he’d fess up. So long as we “persuaded†him properly.
Comment by Crump's Brother
You know, I think he may have already confessed to that too, not to mention...
murdering Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown
March 16th, 2007 at 3:09 pmproviding Monica with the blue dress
causing the 1977 blackout in New York
shooting the deputy
letting the dogs out
framing Roger Rabbit
the tsunami
causing Janet Jackson’s wardrobe malfunction
causing Walt Coleman to make the ‘tuck’ call
those forged Niger Uranium claim documents
creating New Coke
kidnapping the Lindbergh baby
helping nail Jesus on the cross
killing Jimmy Hoffa
fixing the 2000 presidential election
impersonated Sasquatch
Hurricane Katrina
the plane crashes that killed Paul Wellstone and Payne Stewart
possibly the Kennedy assassination
making Sonny Bono ski into that tree
All political reprimands aside, this situation all boils down to a complete and utter breach of national security. In time of war, people who are charged with the high crime are, and have, been put to death. The Rosenbergs (sp?) are prime examples of this, although they were certainly not federally appointed leaders of the country, but "mythical little people". I would like to know when the administration is not only going to admit to thier participation of the manipulation of this classified information for political purpose, but the act of not attempting to investigate it's origin. Of course in hindsight, there is no need to investigate it's origin, when you know that it CAME FROM YOU.
March 16th, 2007 at 3:10 pmPatsy? Firefly? Joke? Micky Big Mouth???
Comment by nanlichi — March 16, 2007 @ 3:06 pm
Standby, they are awaiting further instructions from HQ.
March 16th, 2007 at 3:11 pmremember to let the reporters know were STILL tapping there telephones .
March 16th, 2007 at 3:12 pmTP - Where’s your report on Victoria Toensings’ testimony?? You want me to think you’re fair and balanced, don’t you? I would NEVER suspect TP of cherry picking info to advance the progressive agenda!
Comment by valiant venus
She should now be charged with lying under oath along with Bozo Gonzo, unless you think the entire CIA should be instead.
March 16th, 2007 at 3:12 pmR:
What if Plames status was declassified by the White House?
March 16th, 2007 at 3:12 pmOF COURSE there was no investigation! Why investigate when you already know the answer?
Comment by CONservative #4
...Nail meet head...
March 16th, 2007 at 3:13 pmWhy investigate? They knew who did it. A coverup was a much higher priority.
March 16th, 2007 at 3:13 pm#5 normally I too would consider this testimony stunning however thhere nothing this white house does that surprises me anymore.
March 16th, 2007 at 3:13 pmJust watched this in it's entirety. Nodell looked like he was loading his pants and wanted to dive into the rest room when the allegations that his department could have/should have begun their independent investigation and did nothing - absolutely nothing - some three years later. His testimony fell apart completely when a time line was established between when the "criminal investigation" began and the actual "outing of the covert agent (which has finally been put to rest now that her covert status was confirmed by CIA director, Hayden and placed into the official transcript of the hearing). There was a full two month's time between Plame's outing and the criminal investigation - time when for openers Rove's security clearance should have been removed....time when Nodell's office would have normally been "johnny on the spot" to proceed with their own investigation; instead, Nodell did absolutely NOTHING! And the fascinating thing occurs in the executive order (as opposed to the criminal law) which, BTW, is a very serious offense in itself to violate an executive order - which states that the OUTING OF A COVERT AGENT EITHER INTENTIONALLY OR UNINTENTIONALLY is a violation. Nodell simply was cornered and looked like a caged animal who wanted to jump out of his skin the entire time. As Waxman stated, Nodell is Bush's "fall guy" in all of this.
They also highlighted little old Scottie McClellan's statement that he'd been assured by the WH that no one there had been involved IN ANY WAY in the outing of this agent. What a total joke!
The question at hand is this: HAVE THE PEOPLE HAD ENOUGH YET?
If not, there's more....and the more that's coming is going to make people sick to their stomachs when they discover the ugly truth about those in whom we've placed not only our faith and trust but the future of this once-great country of ours.
The american people have been "had". The question is how much abuse are we willing to tolerate before we expel these criminals from their offices?
March 16th, 2007 at 3:14 pm#17R
March 16th, 2007 at 3:14 pmthis is a time of conflict .Wars are so yesterday.
This was the most stunning testimony I heard today. Unbelievable.. Nobody lost or had suspended security clearances, no reports filed, no questions asked, period. Who is running this country for God's sake??
March 16th, 2007 at 3:14 pmOH MY GOD, WE'RE TOTALLY F*ED! I TOLD George not to make a move without checking with me first, that ungrateful slimebag. The best part of that boy ran down my leg, I swear to God!
March 16th, 2007 at 3:15 pmJake these guys are going down on this or another crime .There are so many to choose from and at the end of the day it won't be about a blow job.
March 16th, 2007 at 3:16 pmWhat if Plames status was declassified by the White House?
Comment by Jake — March 16, 2007 @ 3:12 pm
And for what reason? To punish her husband in a game of political retribution, even though it caused a major blow to monitoring of Iran's nuclear program? And you want Bush directly tied to doing this?
March 16th, 2007 at 3:17 pmAnd we would never suspect Fox of cherry picking info to advance the neocon agenda.
March 16th, 2007 at 3:17 pm#17 You are absolutely accurate. The was an intentional breach of National security in an attempt to muscle one of their critics into silence. This was an intentional breach of national security to enable their war agenda. This was hitting below the belt (mafia style - if you can't nail the guy, get his wife or kids). This was criminal. This was intentional. This was a security breach for political purposes and personal greed (Haliburton and the oil interest of the Bush family). They would rather fill their own personal coffers than worry about the safety of outing an agent who was serving "us" - the people of this country - and whose job it was to protect.
I posit that no american is safe any longer. No americans life means a thing to these hardened criminals who will stop at nothing to achieve their goals of greed, power, and a coup on our democracy.
We are in a grave time of danger in this country right now in not being able to believe or trust that this government is looking out for our best interests. Our government has failed us miserably and continues to fail us more with each passing day. It would be better to have no governing authority than to have a corrupt one of shapeshifters, liars, and criminals running things.
March 16th, 2007 at 3:18 pmIn the testimony, Knodell was asked who his predecessor was -- the one that was supposed to investigate.
He sheepishly answered "Jeffrey Thompson." When asked what Thompson was doing now, Knodell said something about him being in Georgia.
It might be nice to find out what Thompson is doing these days.
Also, Knodell used to be a Secret Service agent. And a good guy, too. Pity for him to be another fall guy.
March 16th, 2007 at 3:18 pm#21- It wasn't Patsy. At least, not in the legal sense of the word BEFORE the act, Putz. Don't talk to me anymore. I don't like you. As a matter of fact, I hate, loath and despise you. Have a great day!
March 16th, 2007 at 3:19 pm"#21
What if Plames status was declassified by the White House?
Comment by Jake — March 16, 2007 @ 3:12 pm"
They can't!!!!
In order for something, anything to be declassified the ORIGINATOR of the classification must by off on the decalssification.
Is GW the originator of the CIA???? NO, so only the CIA can declassify her status you schmuck!
Do some damn research!!!!
March 16th, 2007 at 3:19 pmOf course not! They might have messed up and found something!
March 16th, 2007 at 3:19 pmSheesh....
“I want to get to the bottom of thisâ€
Yeah, you and O.J. both.
March 16th, 2007 at 3:20 pmWhat if Plames status was declassified by the White House?
Comment by Jake
Please post a previous example when has a president has ever declassified working CIA personnels' identities.
Just one.
You're carping about Clinton, surely he also did this?
March 16th, 2007 at 3:21 pmI think both sides scored some points here, and this thing, unfortunately, has gone as far as it can go now.... The Bush Leaguers can rest their hat on Toensing's "not covert UNDER THE ACT" testimony now, until they're blue in the face... she wrote the Act, but apparently won't expand upon why Plame's status doesn't fall under the IIPA... regardless, Zaid pointed out rather profoundly that it was very curious no one lost their security clearance during the entire investigation...
What a shame that Fitzgerald nor Rove would testify... again, i think today's hearing raises more questions and makes us all madder, but nothing will come of it....
the White House's stonewalling strategy of "Prove we knew she was covert" has won out... what a travesty...
March 16th, 2007 at 3:22 pmA guillotine would do wonders in preventing tyranny in the future ! Let the American people make an example of these monsters as a warning to future tyrants !
March 16th, 2007 at 3:23 pmThomas Jefferson said that if you want to keep your democracy you must shoot a politician or 2 every few years just to let them know you aren't sleeping .
HERE COMES OUR best chance CHANCE !
#14 valiant venus
TP - Where’s your report on Victoria Toensings' testimony?? You want me to think you’re fair and balanced, don’t you? I would NEVER suspect TP of cherry picking info to advance the progressive agenda!
Not only is Victoria Toensing a liar. She's a f*cking liar. And when I say liar, I don't mean it the way Republicans do: someone I disagree with. I mean she says things that aren't true with a deliberate intent to deceive and it doesn't bother her in the least to do it.
March 16th, 2007 at 3:23 pm#35- That's right, essentially. You're a good soldier!
March 16th, 2007 at 3:24 pm#27 Of course, there were no investigations of this "national security breach" because it was done by the highest officers in this country! They abused their executive power once again! (add that to the 800+ presidential signing statements)
I agree with you that the information and testimony given today was earth-shattering and so horrible that I'm embarassed that this could happen in my own country. As Plame testified: She expected that a foreign country might attempt to compromise her safety but NEVER did she imagine that it would be HER OWN COUNTRY which would turn against her and compromise her health and safety. Pretty damning words. But her words are a warning to us all -
Let Plame's words be a warning of things to come unless we correct the probem we have in the WH - if we do not, we have no one to blame but ourselves. We know they are liars; we know they are corrupt; we know they will stop at nothing to harm an american citizens; we know they violate our constitutional rights - now what will we do about it? The only thing we can do is to press our representatives to call not only for the removal of GONZALES - but for the removal of CHENEY, BUSH AND ROVE immediately. They cannot be trusted; they have violated the laws of this country and they are taking this country down the sewer with them.
If this WH doesn't care about an agent within the employ of the government, how can they give one iota of care about you and I??
March 16th, 2007 at 3:24 pm#40- I've never been to a Presidential execution, before. What should I pack; a black suit or is it more casual than that?
March 16th, 2007 at 3:27 pmMy favorite part was when asked what he would do now, Knodell said he 'could' go back to his office and talk to the head people (or something to that effect). He was challenged with "aren't you the head guy" (or something to that effect)? "Does that mean you are going to go back and talk to yourself"? He answered "yes".
Then when he was asked again about what he was going to do next about this, he answered that he could go back to his office and talk it over. Then he was challenged again with his choice of words "could" as opposed to "would". He then said he "would", where the questioning Congressman then said he wanted him to report back to them (or something to that effect).
He isn't going to do anything.
March 16th, 2007 at 3:27 pmI don't think the President declassified Plame's status.
March 16th, 2007 at 3:27 pmTP - Where’s your report on Victoria Toensings’ testimony?? You want me to think you’re fair and balanced, don’t you? I would NEVER suspect TP of cherry picking info to advance the progressive agenda! Comment by valiant venus — March 16, 2007 @ 3:09 pm
That's funny, for you to mention Victoria Toensings and "cherry-picking" in the same sentence! Like you and mAnn Coulter, she's another raving banshee that cherry picks, and acts entirely from venomous partisanship.
Now that we *know* the truth, she should be charged with perjury. And you should STFU, you already look like a heartless cold b*tch after making dead baby jokes about your non-existent children. Backing up a *known* perjurer, just makes you look like a traitor!
Oh wait, you are a *traitor*. Right wing, religious fascist terrorists - where have I heard that description before, and why does it sound *so* much like you?
March 16th, 2007 at 3:27 pm#27 - Jenny G.,
March 16th, 2007 at 3:28 pmDick Cheney.
Not only is Victoria Toensing a liar. She’s a f*cking liar. And when I say liar, I don’t mean it the way Republicans do: someone I disagree with. I mean she says things that aren’t true with a deliberate intent to deceive and it doesn’t bother her in the least to do it. Comment by chimpeach — March 16, 2007 @ 3:23 pm
That's why valiant venus *hearts* her. They're both cut from the same sociopath's cloth. Liars, fools, and st*pid c*nts!
March 16th, 2007 at 3:29 pmthe White House’s stonewalling strategy of “Prove we knew she was covert†has won out… what a travesty…
Comment by Fitz for president — March 16, 2007 @ 3:22 pm
I think you are drawing a premature conclusion here.
March 16th, 2007 at 3:30 pm# 44 come as you are .Your an American.
March 16th, 2007 at 3:30 pmAnd you wonder why the PEOPLE of this country threw the Republicans out of office?
Isn't oversight just WONDERFUL!
Finally this house of sticks is starting to collapse on itself.
We still may get an impeachment out of this, or better yet jail terms.
So you think Bush is thinking of pardoning Cheney, resigning, and then have Cheney pardon him?
March 16th, 2007 at 3:30 pm#39 I disagree - I believe that today's testimony made crystal clear that Nodell's office was either stopped from investigating this matter or that he was "complicit" with Bush, Cheney and Rove in it all and he will be the next one to "go". Also, I believe that the anger of actually knowing how dispicable their actions against one of their own (a covert agent) have been proven to be will light a fire for impeachment of this administration.
THERE IS NO DOUBT IN THE MIND OF ANYONE LISTENING TODAY THAT THIS ADMINISTRATION INTENTIONALLY OUTED A PROTECTED CIA AGENT which is the "only thing" which will be laid to rest after today.
Toensing's testimony only addressed the relevancy of the criminal aspect of all of this and not the executive order and what violation of that means. The significance of the executive order speaks even louder for the cause of justice and prosecution of the offender when it states "intentional or unintentional outing of a covert agent" and that speaks to the intent of precisely how heinous the outing (either intentional or unintentional) is deemed to be.
Sorry, but I think it's wishful thinking on your part that this is the "end of it all" - I see this as truly the "beginning of a huge problem for this WH" now.....it may be the "straw that breaks the back finally of this administration of smoke & mirrors"....
I have great faith in the spirit of true patriotism welling up within the souls of americans today to stop this coup on our democracy in it's tracks....today was simply STEP ONE.
March 16th, 2007 at 3:31 pmI don’t think the President declassified Plame’s status.
Comment by Jake — March 16, 2007 @ 3:27 pm
If she isn't covert - as you right wingnuts claim, what status would you be referring to?
You're really a st*pid, st*pid, st*pid old man - that really should stop scraping the crap from others and posting it here. You plagiarists of the rightwing should learn to come up with your own *talking-points*. Your parroting of the same old b*llsh*t just makes you look like a complete moron with your head stuck up your own *sses. Oh wait, that's an accurate description - never mind! ;)
March 16th, 2007 at 3:31 pmCan we start to call the White House "The Bunker" from now on?
March 16th, 2007 at 3:31 pmA senior official quoted Bush as saying, “I want to get to the bottom of this,†during a daily meeting yesterday morning with a few top aides, including Rove.
Bush: “If there is a leak out of my administration, I want to know who it is.“
I suspect that Bush (or someone with skills) did "get to the bottom" of the issue and did tell Bush what happened. The rest is cover-up for the ILLEGAL outing or declassification of a covert agent's identity. Don't forget it was the CIA, the agency that classified and must be the one to declassify Plame, who sought the investigation in the first place.
March 16th, 2007 at 3:31 pmBill Clinton's penis did it too.
-GSD
March 16th, 2007 at 3:32 pmHeh
March 16th, 2007 at 3:32 pmCome on you mean a traditional investigation. No, no, that's not what the Preznit meant.
See, after asking Condi if he could go potty, the Preznit of the free world was sitting there on his potty chair, and he asked God, "Did anyone i know do anything naughty, you know, he-he, about this CIA leak thing?" He sat there waiting, squeezing real hard, real hard work you all, and suddenly he heard a voice, "No Georgie, no one did anything naughty"
And with that, the President of the free world wiped his little hinny, and the investigation was over.
That's how Georgie investigates.
March 16th, 2007 at 3:32 pmWasn't it primto to see little Miss Vicky being put in her place? She's one twisted, ugly individual whose mouth is going to get her into heap big trouble soon. Her REPUBLISCUMISM was showing miserably during her testimony and I believe that Waxman handily made chopped liver out of her before all was said and done. I can't wait for this committee to check the official transcripts of the Libby Trial and prove that she was committing "perjury" herself today with her emphatic statements as though she were taking her conclusions right out of the Libby trial. I can't wait.....she's what I would call an overstuffed douchebag.
March 16th, 2007 at 3:33 pmBush: “If there is a leak out of my administration, I want to know who it is.“
...or they just told Bush it was about Barney leaking on the flowers in the Rose Garden and not to worry about it.
March 16th, 2007 at 3:33 pmWowzers!! What a fall guy for sure. His taking one for the team does not seem to help matters for ROVE/CHANEY though? Even though it looks like things are breaking open for some reason I doubt Bush & Co. will get ousted. Who can say what can happen now from explosions, super nova, tidal wave, invasion or defcon 5.
Clinton obstructed for denial of sexual activity. Wars, attacks, theft, traitorous conduct and possibly fixed elections and Bush is still here...
March 16th, 2007 at 3:33 pmIsn't Karma BRILLIANT?
...Bushiva's own "Dad" (41)...
...made it a CRIME...
...to out a serving covert CIA agent...
...and THAT very THING...
...might bring down his son's presidency...
...BRILLIANT I tell you...
...BRILLIANT!
...not even Shakespeare could've written such "IRONY"...
March 16th, 2007 at 3:34 pm#29 You got it! They're halfway sunk as the sun sets today and it will be "child's play" now to select which one to use to totally sink this rotted bag of an administration......eenie, meanie, miney, moe.....let's see which one's to go today?
March 16th, 2007 at 3:34 pmClinton faced impeachment for lying under oath about adultery, while a national security leak sanctioned by a White House staffer and lied about as to tis provenance and the supposed investigation will likely go unpunished. Republicans will no doubt dismiss such comparisons as hateful politics of personal destruction or some other projection. Un-be-liev-able.
March 16th, 2007 at 3:35 pmHow does VT know Plame was not covert under the statue if she never talk to the CIA Or Plame (Vicki said this under oath)about her status?
March 16th, 2007 at 3:35 pm#21 Jake, from what I understand the white house can not just arbitrarily decide to declassify something with out going back and forth with the CIA to begin with. That said, if they did declassify her status, why did they not simply tell investigators that way back when this thing was still in its infancy? Why would Bush make all those statements about finding the culprit and firing anyone involved etc... I'm assuming that if she was declassified he would know. What was he covering up if he had her declassified and pretended not to ? Sorry, but saying they did declassify it is exercising revisionist history.
March 16th, 2007 at 3:35 pmTP - Where’s your report on Victoria Toensings’ testimony?? You want me to think you’re fair and balanced, don’t you? I would NEVER suspect TP of cherry picking info to advance the progressive agenda!
Comment by valiant venus
TP only feeds their moonbats "half-truth enriched moonbat food".
March 16th, 2007 at 3:35 pmJake your in over your head here buddy , not because you aren't a good swimmer but because the currents too strong .
March 16th, 2007 at 3:35 pmGuy Fawkes day.
Big Papa - Thanks for the karmic connection here! This one is going to tank little Bush - big time!
March 16th, 2007 at 3:36 pmOne, two, three, four.....thugs to go now. Gonzo is first; Rove is second; Cheney is third and Bush is fourth. It will be a very interesting couple of months. Has Dumbya's number reached 28 yet? My prediction two years ago is that when/if his number reaches 28, he's a goner.......time is ticking down......29 and counting...
March 16th, 2007 at 3:38 pmVicky T-Bag Toensing says listen to her opinion of whether or not a CIA agent is covert. Don't listen to the Director of National Intelligence who confirmed that she was covert.
-GSD
March 16th, 2007 at 3:40 pm#59- Absolutely. She apparently lied under oath and it's gratifying to see justice in action, once again. I forgot what a rush it can be! This is going to be one HUGE scandal that will be unprecedented in sheer numbers of people indicted for very serious crimes. Who knows where all this can lead?
March 16th, 2007 at 3:40 pm"#70
One, two, three, four…..thugs to go now. Gonzo is first; Rove is second; Cheney is third and Bush is fourth.
Comment by veritas — March 16, 2007 @ 3:38 pm"
You forgot Rice......
March 16th, 2007 at 3:41 pmAnyone know what Jeffrey Thompson is doing now? I did feel sorry for Nodell as he was totally unprepared for the fallout of this hearing. Someone above mentioned that he was once a "good guy" and I could see his level of remorse and sadness today. He really has no one to blame but himself though in accepting a job which he probably knew he wouldn't be allowed to do. That's always one's personal choice. When you work for power mongers who only delegate when their arsses are on the line and want a scapegoat to cover their butts, that's what happens. It was Nodell's bad karma or bad luck then to accept this position within this dictatorship.
March 16th, 2007 at 3:41 pmAaaggghhh, Flaco dust all over my computer!
March 16th, 2007 at 3:42 pmTick-tock-tick-tock-tick-tock... Why me laugh?
March 16th, 2007 at 3:42 pmAmazing testimony. The Office that is responsible for making sure that classified material is not released from the White House did absolutely nothing after classified material was leaked from the White House. Someone ask him why. I hope someone plays with Snowjob with this bit of information.
March 16th, 2007 at 3:44 pmYou forgot Rice…… Comment by RemoveBush
We'll just throw that after the Pelosi swearing in ceremony.
March 16th, 2007 at 3:44 pmI wish they had played the clip of Scottie when he was speaking for Dubya and said: "The president has assured me that if anyone in his administration is involved in this terrible crime of outing an agent, they will be immediately dismissed from their job".....ah....does that mean that he's dismissing himself now? or Rove? or Cheney? Or was that just another lie to add to the mountain of lies by our commander in chief?
Wasn't it the "first lie" that should have had our commander in chief removed???????
March 16th, 2007 at 3:44 pmDamn I feel good today !Whats for dinner?
March 16th, 2007 at 3:46 pmThis fellow looked like someone ran over his puppy. It was pure schadenfreude to watch the Minority Chair yammer like a baboon about not being given enough avdance notice of Knodell's testimony in order to "prepare" (which I take to mean "practice lying.")
Then, their star witness Toensing just sat there pulling flying bats out of her posterior. She had nothing relevant to offer except her opinion as a Republican operative.
No doubt about it: the zipperheads are in deep.
March 16th, 2007 at 3:47 pm#79
March 16th, 2007 at 3:47 pmNot in a dictatorship .
I hope someone plays with Snowjob with this bit of information.
Snow was too busy claiming that a list ranking prosecutors by how much they were "Loyal Bushies" has nothing to do with a political test for that office.
Oh, but Clinton once fired a prosecutor for biting a stripper, so it's all the same. And by "the same" I mean that Democrats are worse, of course.
March 16th, 2007 at 3:50 pm.
#35 Nodell's career is obviously over (if he ever really had one other than his job description which meant nothing)...I do feel sorry for this man personally because he was so "at sea" as to realizing that He (Nodell) was "the man at the top" - obviously, he's been so abused and pummeled by this administration that he wasn't certain who he was, what his responsibilities are, nor to whom he reports....initially I thought he was some sort of "underling" who needed to check with someone at the top of his office by his sheepish responses....BUT when I realized that Nodell is THE HEAD of his Office, wow! Anyone watching that hearing had to be shaking their heads.
Over the course of the past two years, we've witnessed case after case of incompetence and/or intentional twisting of the truth and the law.....we've seen things which make no sense but are used for the effect of confusing the interpretation of our laws....we've witnessed such incredible chicanery at the highest levels of supposed respect in this country that it's beginning to resemble a "three ring circus" now.
And, since we are paying the salaries of these "admitted incompetents" in our employ, why not have the people press to pull the plug and fire them all - just like they wanted to do with the attorneys who were going after their political cronnies.....just fire their butts outta there once and for all???? Let's get it over with....
The people have had enough!
March 16th, 2007 at 3:52 pm#56 -
That is exactly the right question the wingnuts should be asking. Who requested the original investigation?
The right puts the Republican party so far above the country they hardly remember what is to be one of us, to be a real American.
March 16th, 2007 at 3:52 pmThis was an absolutely stunning revelation.
(I almost felt sorry for the guy -- I am sure he is spending the rest of the afternoon in the bathroom - he was so nervous.)
But since the WH planned this leak and carefully executed it, why would there be an investigation of themselves?
Their corruption is astonishing.
March 16th, 2007 at 3:55 pmIncompetence meet corruption.
The result is complete disaster. We are not safe, folks. We are in harm's way under this administration. They look out for themselves and there is no consideration of anyone else.
March 16th, 2007 at 3:57 pmRight on #62, big papa, in the tao of all things, if you want to get rid of something, let it prosper. The way of governance is the will of the people. Soon the people will see the disharmony of their ways.
March 16th, 2007 at 3:57 pmPolitics vs justice.
It will be wonderful to see that twisted mouth, Vicky T-Bag, go down for perjury, won't it? She spoke with such authority today about things she knows absolutely nothing about. She somehow believes that her measly little prosecutorial background trumps what the director of the CIA says about one's employment status? She needs to get a life.
It was clear that Vicky T-Bag is simply that: an over-the-hill bag who is trying to remain relevant because she had something to do with drafting something some 25 or 30 years ago. Waxman nailed that D-bag right in her tracks and she went out of there looking like a sycophantic neocon whore who knows absolutely nothing about this case other than what we know from the official transcripts but who doesn't have the brains to realize that she is being used because of her gigantic and ignorant mouth! They pushed her into it becuase they thought she'd use her mouth to shout down the members of the committee. Miss Vicky failed to realize the level of intelligence of both the members of Waxman's commitee and the american people. Her testimony was simply sent in as a "smoke screen" and it will be great to see what happens to Miss T Bag when they hold her to her statements after the statements are checked for veracity to the official trial transcripts.....I see perjury in her future! Clever of Waxman to ask her under oath about the truth of her very emphatic statements. Very clever and now she's hooked.
March 16th, 2007 at 3:58 pmBush vowing to find the culprit has the same ring as Oj vowing to track down Nicole's killer. The difference is that OJ only had the blood of two people on his hands, Bush has the blood of hundreds of thousands.
And the smart money is that neither will be punished for their murders.
March 16th, 2007 at 4:00 pmWhere’s your report on Victoria Toensings’ testimony?? You want me to think you’re fair and balanced, don’t you? I would NEVER suspect TP of cherry picking info to advance the progressive agenda!
Comment by valiant venus — March 16, 2007 @ 3:09 pm
I addressed it earlier and you said it was ancient history even though she was testifying at the time.
March 16th, 2007 at 4:03 pmWhat do you want to know now. She was saying that she drafted the law and a law was not broken. She did not have the information about this case she said. But it she said it appears that outing her violates executive order and administrative rules.
Toensig is a skilled attorney. She participated in writing the original law and she is expert at parsing words. But it is the executive order that is being used as the standard in this case.
March 16th, 2007 at 4:03 pmWaxman would not stand for her grandstanding.
I thought it was interesting how Toensing attempted to suggest that "She" was reponsible for drafting the original law, wasn't it? She doesn't have much of a problem with misplaced narcissism, does she?
It was painful to watch this women attempt to make a point based on antiquated information to the extent that Waxman almost told her outright - "that was then....this is now"...."hello.....earth to Vicky.....who cares what you did and when???" Clearly, she's been spouting off her opinions in the press and needs to be held accountable finally for her part in this "misinformation scandal" and for intentionally circulating untrue propaganda.
I see big things for Miss Vicky and know that we've not seen the last of her....she said some pretty preposterous things under oath and I suspect that she perjured herself several times....ho-hum....it's the "reality soap opera called "Bush's Administration" these days.....stay tuned to tomorrow's episode....like today, it will be another "doosey".
March 16th, 2007 at 4:03 pmAfter all of that and not a PEEP from FOX...4:05PM here
March 16th, 2007 at 4:04 pmVictoria Toensing = Susan Atkins
March 16th, 2007 at 4:05 pmBut doesn't Knodell "Serve at the pleasure of the President"? LOL
Watched The Daily Show the other day and they had clips from Gonzo, Rummy and quite a few more including the President himself use the phrase "I (he) serves at the pleasure of the President."
What a god damned joke they are.
March 16th, 2007 at 4:05 pm#90 And with the blood of thousands of innocent victims (slaughter of the innocents?), the karmic payback will be unbelievable.
March 16th, 2007 at 4:05 pmAtty. Zaid said that he has defended many people in cases like this and for far, far less egregious acts, they have been seriously reprimanded, lost privileges and suffered greatly.
March 16th, 2007 at 4:06 pmOne guy took ballpoint pens thirty years previously.
One guy had $62 in non-approved charges on his expense account.
Each of them lost security clearance and were seriously punished.
He was amazed that nothing has happened to anyone in this serious and potentially dangerous breach of confidentiality.
Yikes: I believe this administration's jokes have trumped even the John Stewart show! They've become the "comic relief" each day as the "three ring circus clowns" perform (Bush, Cheney, Gonzales).....
March 16th, 2007 at 4:07 pmMs. Toensing, your participation in drafting that law was so Pre 9/11.
-GSD
March 16th, 2007 at 4:07 pmWatching the collective progressive orgasm here at TP reminds me that Waxman, et al, are doing exactly what they are supposed to do - throw you guys bones to nibble on.....
March 16th, 2007 at 4:08 pmAnyone find it interesting that Waxman left Vicki's testimony open and was going to exam her statements under oath?
March 16th, 2007 at 4:08 pmThe administration has effectively removed the truth and facts as part of the binding rule of law. We now have the ultimate bait being set up for everyone to recognize that the power that the President has garnered unilaterly for himself is not going to be curtailed in any effective manor for quite some time. They can lie and continue, sets a pretty clear example for sucess of the powerfull doesn't it?
March 16th, 2007 at 4:08 pm#90 - nanlichi,
March 16th, 2007 at 4:09 pmNot, at least, on this side of Hell anyway.
I believe that now the american public (thanks to Toensing's testimony) knows two critical things: Toensing outed her Republican Lock Step Roots and the critical difference between "the law" and an "executive order". In this case, however, the executive order is the standard as it speaks to the violation from a much more agregious platform: the intentional OR unintentional outing of an operative. That's huge! Now the american people know the distinction, know that national security was intentionally breached, and can do something about it.
March 16th, 2007 at 4:10 pmGSD - The Law the Dems have been citing was co-authored by Victoria Toensing and is VERY pre-9/11. Thank you for paying attention.
March 16th, 2007 at 4:10 pmWhat if Plames status was declassified by the White House?
Comment by Jake — March 16, 2007 @ 3:12 pm
Maybe somebody should have told her or the head of the CIA so he could remove other operatives from harms way.
March 16th, 2007 at 4:10 pmWhere did you go to college again Jake?
Marie - Hi! Can you believe that clients lost their security clearance for taking ball point pens and Rove didn't lose it when he admitted to outing a CIA operative's identity? Where has our system of justice descended? Or $62.00 on an expense report when billions of our taxpayer dollars have gone missing and no one is doing a thing about it? What the heck has happend to this country?
Can you just imagine one of our deceased relatives coming back from the dead and witnessing the level of corruption in the highest of places in our government today? They're probably rolling over in their graves right now to see the destruction of this country by a group of twisted, unethical, corrupt, greedy neocons and probably can't believe it is happening.
March 16th, 2007 at 4:12 pm"fair and balanced"
LOL
Guess that means FOX doesn't have to worry about the truth. As long as they believe it's fair and balanced. LOL
March 16th, 2007 at 4:13 pm#102 - I did....and still am thinking about his rationale in doing that. I suspect that he will get her on a perjury charge down the road.
March 16th, 2007 at 4:13 pmIt would seem we have a known leak.
We also have an unknown leak.
Was it a good leak? That's not known.
Was it a bad leak? Yes, that's known.
How can the department of leaks know?
That's unknown.
What is known is leaks took place.
Look, you don't go to Congress with the leaks you know.
You go to Congress with the leaks that are unknown.
When will be know?
That's unknown at this time.
How soon will it be known?
March 16th, 2007 at 4:15 pmI don't know, but I'll talk to myself about it at the office.
Nice. I think it's time to start impeachment proceedings.
March 16th, 2007 at 4:15 pm"Waxman would not stand for her grandstanding."
Comment by Marie
ESPECIALLY when he so eloquently grandstanded himself. I could have sworn the re-invention of Tom Foley had taken place....
March 16th, 2007 at 4:15 pmTroll #101 - you know the adage - "if you don't like the game, take your toys and split"...hahahah!
March 16th, 2007 at 4:15 pmGSD - The Law the Dems have been citing was co-authored by Victoria Toensing and is VERY pre-9/11. Thank you for paying attention.
Comment by valiant venus — March 16, 2007 @ 4:10 pm
If I'm not mistaken, laws written pre-9/11 still apply today.
March 16th, 2007 at 4:15 pm#101 valiant venus
Watching the collective progressive orgasm here at TP reminds me that Waxman, et al, are doing exactly what they are supposed to do - throw you guys bones to nibble on…..
Yup, the bones of dead corrupt Republicans.
March 16th, 2007 at 4:17 pmShane, education aside, what makes you think a logical sequence of events for the release of something's classification should exist. What if , after all the President granted the Vice President the authority to declassify something on March, 23 2003, the decision to shut down Brewster Jennings along with Ms Wilson hadn't already happened and all the VP was doing was clearing the release of that information. Why was she at Langley? Well maybe she'd already been given the pink slip from Cheney's group and her husband called them on why her op was shut down. Why were the 16 words removed from the SOU speech? How's that?
March 16th, 2007 at 4:18 pmJust saw on another thread that the WH is feigning "blurry memory" on the purging of the justices....hah! They've got more than blurry memory - they've got a whole omelet on their faces these days. Since we pay them to do their jobs competently and with clear memory, then clearly admitting to having "memory problems" is indicative of serious mental disease and, therefore, they are no longer capable or qualified to do the jobs for which they are paid....
They're getting boxed into a corner now like cowering, sick animals....desperation is written all over this administration. Desperate people do desperate things.....Gonzo will walk, Cheney will take medical leave and Dumbya will be hospitalized for psychiatric problems....
March 16th, 2007 at 4:19 pmValiant Venus is a misnomer....the planet they're from is not Venus at all.....it's Uranus!
March 16th, 2007 at 4:20 pmI think Valient Venus should defend Victoria Toensing Pro Bono.
She could use a really bad lawyer about now.
March 16th, 2007 at 4:20 pmWhen Ms. Plame that it hit her in the gut what her country had done to her (to paraphrase) we have to ask why anybody would want to serve this country anymore. Agent of the CIA and FBI have always been the best and the brightest of law enforcement and that's the respect they get.
March 16th, 2007 at 4:21 pmSoldiers fight wars to protect us and our rights and the government not only doesn't take care of these brave people when they return but the President and his cronies steal our rights out from under us at the same time.
It is sickening and something needs to be done and soon.
39. Comment by Fitz for president — March 16, 2007 @ 3:22 pm
To quote the great Yogi Berra, "It ain't over til its over."
March 16th, 2007 at 4:23 pm#108,
We watched the entire hearing at work today. (small office)
It was hard to get work done.
Zaid's testimony was very interesting - and revealing in that no one has suffered anything from this breach of security.
March 16th, 2007 at 4:24 pm-------------------------------------------
VV This was not her hearing. She put on her attorney's hat and used her talents - I give her credit for being one smart cookie, but she did not come off well. She was parsing words too much, and ignored that the executive order was the standard; she ignored that and continued to tout her credentials from the past.
No wonder the Repugs wanted her there - she did her best, and she must be formidable in the courtroom, but this was a hearing and she was obviously defiant and intransigent.
Unless we get these criminals out of office there's going to be as many pardons by this fascist regime as there are signing statements!!
March 16th, 2007 at 4:25 pmSorry, shane, the Terms of Use I agreed to a few days ago prohibits me from posting personal information including, but not limited to, where (or if) I went to college. You will note that I do not ask for your personal information. Why don't we stick to the relevant points of the debate?
P.S. freeman -- thanks for the heads up.
March 16th, 2007 at 4:26 pmWonder what Toensing's quid pro quo was for today's testimony? Bet she ends up with a big appointment, oh that's right they're looking for a replacement for that Gonzalez guy.
March 16th, 2007 at 4:27 pmLet's pick side then. I am in favor of the proposition that the White House never investigated the Plame leak because no law was broken or, alternatively, they were asked not to by Patrick Fitzgerald. Anyone willing to debate that?
March 16th, 2007 at 4:33 pmI'd have to go with the VP's office had shut down BJ and didn't realize she was Wilson's wife. That certainly would be quite a cocktail tidbit wouldn't it. What fuck ups. What day did BJ shut down?Makes sense that she was at Langely doesn't it? Everyone is disposable to this administration, aren't they?
March 16th, 2007 at 4:36 pmTrust me, Shane, it is "Over" and has been "over" for some time. Now it's all about the crying - investigating, indicting, and incarcerating....get a grip, 'tis OVER long ago.
March 16th, 2007 at 4:37 pmshane,
Jake’s career is what made him what he is today.
He worked as a crash dummy for the NASA Rocket Sled program.
After each run they would scrape his brains off of the base of the sled into a bucket, turn him upside down, put a funnel into each nostril and pour them back in.
He still sloshes when he nods or shakes his head.
Every once in a while, the air relief valve at the back of his head malfunctions and a little grey matter drips out. Of recent, no one notices a difference when that occurs.
March 16th, 2007 at 4:38 pmJake, there are more than two possibilities.
March 16th, 2007 at 4:39 pmIt's clear that this government doesn't take a "breach of national security" to be significant in any way - that is, when they are doing the intentional "breaching". However, the letter of the law exempts no one in the breaching of national security and the quashing of Knodell's investigation which, as concluded today, SHOULD HAVE TAKEN PLACE IMMEDIATELY, was part of the criminal cover up. Now that the ugly truth about how certain individuals feel themselves to be "above the law" and "able to intentionally breach our national security, it will be interesting to observe the wheels of justice move in the direction of chewing them up and spitting them out, one by ugly one.
March 16th, 2007 at 4:41 pmLet’s pick side then. I am in favor of the proposition that the White House never investigated the Plame leak because no law was broken or, alternatively, they were asked not to by Patrick Fitzgerald. Anyone willing to debate that?
Comment by Jake
Sure. You start by providing any evidence at all that supports your pure supposition.
And start by making a clear case that the White House was in the position to know that a law had not been broken, prior to any investigation.
Then explain how they could have been acting at the behest of a special prosecutor who had not been appointed, and at the time when they were actually resisting the need for such an appointment. Did Fitz have a time machine?
March 16th, 2007 at 4:42 pmWe all knew this and I'm sure the do nothing 109th congress did too...
March 16th, 2007 at 4:42 pmJake, dear misinformed (and probably juvenile), you are oversimplifying a very criminal misdeed here in your inane assertion. We now KNOW the facts; they've admitted to violating the executive order in intentionally outing a covert agent. What is your brain malfunction here?
March 16th, 2007 at 4:42 pmThanks, Walt for "outing" Jake the snake! I love it!
March 16th, 2007 at 4:44 pm#132 don't waste your intelligent brain cells on a misinformed, arrogant, ignorant individual and save them for conversation which is meaningful. Most of us at TP recognize "Jake" and know that he is irrelevant and a paid troll. We don't feed the trolls here at TP.
March 16th, 2007 at 4:45 pmOversimplification appears to be Jake's mantra.
March 16th, 2007 at 4:46 pmThat’s huge! Now the american people know the distinction, know that national security was intentionally breached, and can do something about it.
Comment by veritas — March 16, 2007 @ 4:10 pm
Not necessarily. Since the average American doesn't even watch the news and there's all those Fox News nut how many people will actually know.
Apathy seems to be the enemy of this democracy.
While we are here discussing and learning how many people were watching soap operas and E!
Apparently the media doesn't feel beholding to the United States but worships at the feet of this administration.
Capitalism trumps democracy - god help us all.
March 16th, 2007 at 4:47 pmThe Law the Dems have been citing was co-authored by Victoria Toensing and is VERY pre-9/11. Thank you for paying attention.
Comment by valiant venus — March 16, 2007 @ 4:10 pm
Keep up VV - they didn't break the law but they violated Executive Order and broke Administrative Rules.
March 16th, 2007 at 4:51 pmWhat are you so happy about. STFU
#129 - Walt, thanks for clearing that up. :)
March 16th, 2007 at 4:51 pm[...] maybe they already knew who did it? Dr. James Knodell, director of the Office of Security at the White House, revealed today that to [...]
March 16th, 2007 at 4:52 pm"Marie - Hi! Can you believe that clients lost their security clearance for taking ball point pens and Rove didn’t lose it when he admitted to outing a CIA operative’s identity?"
Re Rove: Have you always been so mentally challenged - or do you suffer from an audio disability. A-R-M-IT-A-G-E "outed" Val.
What do you think of Sandy Berger's sentence for concealing documents in his pants and socks and leaving them under a truck? Naturally, he picked them up later.....I tried really hard not to kick up pebbles in his face!
March 16th, 2007 at 4:52 pmTerrible trolls today! Can't we get some intelligent ones for a change?
March 16th, 2007 at 4:55 pmOh, maybe they are all hiding under their beds!
Sorry, shane, the Terms of Use I agreed to a few days ago prohibits me from posting personal information including, but not limited to, where (or if) I went to college.
Comment by Jake — March 16, 2007 @ 4:26 pm
Another example of Jake's poor reading comprehension. The terms of agreement say no such thing. What a doofus.
March 16th, 2007 at 4:56 pm#135 - veritas,
March 16th, 2007 at 4:56 pmI'm glad you liked it. Iy popped into my mind after Jake's post #125. It took me two minutes to compose. I hesitated, but, then, Jake came up with #127 - that sealed the deal.
111. Comment by Zimzone — March 16, 2007 @ 4:15 pm
Good one. Can you read Bushies mind?
March 16th, 2007 at 4:58 pmComment by the fly-man — March 16, 2007 @ 4:18 pm
You lost me at education aside - sorry I don't understand what you're saying or in response to what.
March 16th, 2007 at 5:01 pm"Can you read Bushies mind?"
Nothing there to read.
March 16th, 2007 at 5:01 pm#143 He also said he served (in the armed forces) which is personal information and now he says he can't give personal information.
March 16th, 2007 at 5:02 pmRove is apparently an expert at political dirty tricks, mean-spiritedness, revenge and underhandedness, but fortunately he's too stupid to know to fake an investigation. Or perhaps it was hubris that caused him to overlook this strategy. Truth always wins in the end.
March 16th, 2007 at 5:05 pmTrust me, Shane, it is “Over†and has been “over†for some time. Now it’s all about the crying - investigating, indicting, and incarcerating….get a grip, ’tis OVER long ago.
Comment by veritas — March 16, 2007 @ 4:37 pm
This was in response to somebody saying the Plam investigation was over and I don't believe it's over. I think there's much much more that can be investigated after today.
March 16th, 2007 at 5:06 pmall legal issues aside, this kind of thing just doesn't pass the smell test. it severely undermines this administration's already anemic credibility, which may not be a big thing to the 30%ers and other apologists, but to the rest of the country, it matters. snow tried to parse the phrase "loyal Bushies." it just doesn't pass the smell test and it's embarrassing to have leadership [or lack thereof] like this.
March 16th, 2007 at 5:06 pmShane - A bit about a woman you obviously KNOW NOTHING about:
"Toensing was Chief Counsel to the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, where she helped draft the Intelligence Identities Protection Act of 1982.....Being one of the key people to help draft the Intelligence Identities Protection Act of 1982, Toensing has been retained by a number of media organizations to give commentary on the Plame Affair."
So your brain doesn't expplode - allow me to assist you. From the Freedom if Information website -
"It's with special pride, then, that I now sign this piece of legislation into law. Thank you, and God bless you.
[At this point, the President signed the bill.]
It's law.
Note: The President spoke at 11:32 a.m. outside the Central Intelligence Agency headquarters building in Langley, Va. Prior to his remarks, he was given a tour of the building at which time he spoke to a small group of CIA employees.
As enacted, H.R. 4 is Public Law 97 - 200, approved June 23."
March 16th, 2007 at 5:07 pmYour welcome, little tool......
George said that he could enjoy eating a pink taco for dinner, tonight. Does anyone know where I can get a decent recipe for making a good pink taco with hot sauce? Anyone... ? Karl... ? Gonzo... ?
March 16th, 2007 at 5:08 pmAnother example of Jake’s poor reading comprehension. The terms of agreement say no such thing. What a doofus.
Comment by VerbalKint
• Post any private information or otherwise harvest, collect or disclose information, about another Blogger without his or her express consent.
Too many words, apparently. Something has to slip through the cracks.
March 16th, 2007 at 5:10 pmSorry, shane, the Terms of Use I agreed to a few days ago prohibits me from posting personal information including, but not limited to, where (or if) I went to college. You will note that I do not ask for your personal information. Why don’t we stick to the relevant points of the debate?
P.S. freeman — thanks for the heads up.
Comment by Jake — March 16, 2007 @ 4:26 pm
Bullshit Jake - all day yesterday you were asserting that you had the definitive answer on all laws that fit your argument. And I said nobody had the interpretation of all laws that's why there are judges. You implied you were retired from practicing which was obviously a bald face lie.
March 16th, 2007 at 5:10 pmSo your a liar, no problem for you, your party loves that. But don't act like you understand the law if you're not an attorney. Its not that simple.
Not to change the subject but since this is part of the bigger picture of the culture of corruption of this fascist regime...
March 16th, 2007 at 5:11 pm
"If there is a leak, we wouldn't know anything about it, since we aren't going to look into this. There may be some sort of invesigation ongoing someday...Blah, freakin blahggg."
March 16th, 2007 at 5:12 pmhttp://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/10221.html
this was supposed to be in post 156
March 16th, 2007 at 5:14 pm#148- He also said that he is 75-years-old, an Independent and intimated that he works on the West Wing. He seems to have "flights of fancy" that shouldn't be taken seriously. I told him/her/it the other day that some clearasil and night school should be able to clear up the problem skin and illiteracy, eventually.
March 16th, 2007 at 5:15 pmBeing one of the key people to help draft the Intelligence Identities Protection Act of 1982, Toensing has been retained by a number of media organizations to give commentary on the Plame Affair.â€
Comment by valiant venus — March 16, 2007 @ 5:07 pm
Actually VeneralVenal I did know about her career. If you had watched c-span as I suggested you would know that instead of answering questions she was patting her self on the back about her career. Obviously she's bright enough to not answer the questions that were asked but to address the talking points she was paid to follow.
March 16th, 2007 at 5:19 pmThis kind of heinous woman is no doubt who you would admire. Birds of a feather
An officer serving under her was upset to have received an inquiry from the vice president's office about yellowcake from Niger and evidently, while she was comforting that junior officer, some guy walked by her office and suggested her husband should go to Niger to check it out.
She said she was ambivalent about the idea because she didn't want to have to put her 2 year-old twins to bed by herself at night. Still, she and the guy who had just happened to walk by then went to her supervisor.
Supervisor: Well, when you go home this evening, would you ask your husband to come in.
Then her supervisor asked her to write an e-mail about the idea. She did so. That e-mail, she said, was the basis for the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence claim that she had been responsible for sending her husband to Niger for the CIA.
In other words, she didn't recommend him or suggest him. Rather, it was a guy who walked by.
If that is how the CIA works, it certainly solves a helluva lot of mysteries about US foreign policy failures.
March 16th, 2007 at 5:20 pmThere was nothing to investigate. A drunken fool out on the party circuit ?
March 16th, 2007 at 5:22 pmShane, in response to your comment to Jake in #107QUOTE:"What if Plames status was declassified by the White House?
Comment by Jake — March 16, 2007 @ 3:12 pm
Maybe somebody should have told her or the head of the CIA so he could remove other operatives from harms way.
Where did you go to college again Jake?
Comment by shane — March 16, 2007 @ 4:10 pm" Why are you assuming that the other operatives were still in harm's way when her name was revealed? Suppose they were already out of harms way. She was back at Langley, let's suppose that her operation had already been shut down and the VP's office twisted Intel that SHE generated along with the Niger forgeries and the never knew until later that she was Wilson's wife. No wonder everyone everyone had heard about her, the VP had canned her operation and then declassified INFORMATION about her and her group, thus validating everyone's conclusion that she wasn't covert at the time of Novak's article and thus the reluctant approval , not denial of permission for Bob Novak to write the story given to him by the CIA.
March 16th, 2007 at 5:23 pmHe also said that he is 75-years-old, an Independent and intimated that he works on the West Wing
Comment by R — March 16, 2007 @ 5:15 pm
The West Wing, hahahahahaha, don't make me laught. I have to go forward some of Jakes posts to Martin Sheen. He's going to love this one. Thanks for sharing R - the West Wing - hahahahaha- I'm dying here.
March 16th, 2007 at 5:23 pmThank you very much, gummitch, for allowing me to proceed first.
First, for the record, I am not claiming that Fitz had a time machine. Second, I am indeed claiming that no law was broken in the release of Ms. Plame's name, and my opponents will not even point to any prosecution for such offense. Libby's trial, for instance, and the charges he was convicted of recently, stem from allegations that he lied to investigators and obstructed justice on the matter, but NO other violation of law has been charged on the underlying release.
My debate partner, Ms Toening, has covered one such law that might have been charged, namely the Intelligence Identities Protection Act ("IIPA") and testified how there has been only one successful prosecution under that law. Further, she set forth countless reasons why revealing Ms. Plame's identity would not be covered under the IIPA. If our opponents have any specific charge as to the IIPA, or any other law alleged violated, we reserve the right to rebut that in follow-up.
As for how the White House knew no crime had been commited, the evidence will show that the President was advised that Vice President Cheney declassified her status in order to expose the lies being spread by her husband, Joe Wilson, and those collaborating with him to damage our national security and the fight against terrorists. Following the July 14, 2003 revelation of Valerie Plame's name, specifically on February 15, 2006, the Vice President CONFIRMED that his office indeed possessed the authority to declassify such matters, although he declined to confirm or deny whether that was done in this particular case:
(Emphasis Added).
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11373634/page/7/
I am prepared at this juncture to submit on my first point, but reserve the right to rebut any alleged crime being alleged, whether the IIPA or any other crime. The White House did not investigate any crime because Plame was not protected under any law barring the disclosure of her identity. As the bipartisan Senate Intelligence Report would later confirm, Mr. Wilson was indeed lying about his role in the Niger matter. He, his wife, and those collaborating with them to damage our national security and the fight against terrorists constituted a "clear and present danger" to the United States and were dealt with accordingly. They should count their blessings they still live in Georgetown rather than Gitmo.
In the alternative, however, once Patrick Fitzgerald was appointed to investigate any alleged criminal violations arising from the release of Ms. Plame's name, the White House was asked not to comment on the case by the prosecutors:
(Emphasis Added)
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/07/20050711-3.html#2
Indeed, after Fitzgerald was appointed, ANY interference with his investigation (even an internal probe) could have been construed as obstruction of justice as well. It is clear that, at the very least, it is not "pure supposition" once Mr. Fitzgerald was appointed, the White House could no longer conduct any internal probe, even when additional evidence came to light that would have warrented such a probe.
Thank you very much, but I see my initial time limit has expired.
P.S. veritas, et al -- please feel free to point out my "brain malfunction" with any point herein.
March 16th, 2007 at 5:25 pmI just finished reading "Vice" by Lou Dubose and Jake Bernstein. A really interesting, enlightening read.
March 16th, 2007 at 5:25 pmThere is an entire chapter (12) devoted to the CIA, outing of Valerie Plame Wilson, and the run up to the Iraq war with it's BS intel. It puts it all in context and puts Cheney smack at the lead of what happened. It stinks.
A great read and I highly recommend it.
P.P.S. Sorry, Shane (and anyone else) if you think only an attorney can come up with debating points like that. For the record, however, I never intimated I worked in the West Wing.
March 16th, 2007 at 5:30 pmand...........we're suppose to be surprised by this....ssstuppid shit.
March 16th, 2007 at 5:31 pmP.S. veritas, et al — please feel free to point out my “brain malfunction†with any point herein.
Comment by Jake
Taking anything Darth Cheney or Britney Hume says at face value.
March 16th, 2007 at 5:31 pmThere's a very simple, clear explanation for all of this.
Cheney planned the leak with assistance from Armitage, Rove, and Libby and, after it backfired, conspired to cover it up. Bush had no interest in an investigation that would implicate most of his staff, so he simply looked the other way while telling baldfaced lies to the public and instructing his press office to do the same.
In other words, the entire top level of the administration was involved in:
1. Compromising our national security as an act of political revenge.
2. Covering it up.
Based on the facts, there's no other logical conclusion.
March 16th, 2007 at 5:36 pmWell, CONservative, feel free to prove the Vice President could not declassify Plame's status then.
March 16th, 2007 at 5:36 pmBy the way, Toensing lied about how old she was when she drafted that legislation so why should we believe her on more important matters??
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Toensing
March 16th, 2007 at 5:36 pm"Taking anything Darth Cheney or Britney Hume says at face value."
and how.
March 16th, 2007 at 5:38 pmJust like you lied about my "brain malfunction" CONservative?
March 16th, 2007 at 5:39 pmJake:
As for how the White House knew no crime had been commited, the evidence will show that the President was advised that Vice President Cheney declassified her status in order to expose the lies being spread by her husband, Joe Wilson, and those collaborating with him to damage our national security and the fight against terrorists. Following the July 14, 2003 revelation of Valerie Plame’s name, specifically on February 15, 2006, the Vice President CONFIRMED that his office indeed possessed the authority to declassify such matters, although he declined to confirm or deny whether that was done in this particular case:
Present the evidence. All you present is a statement made three years later that Cheney had the authority to declassify "such matters" but absolutely no indication that "such matters" included Plame's status; again, sophomoric supposition masquerading as evidence.
The assertions about Wilson are even more ridiculous. Wilson was being punished for revealing the fact that the State of the Union address contained misinformation about Niger, a simple fact that has been acknowledged in the interim by the CIA and the White House.
You really are a silly man.
March 16th, 2007 at 5:44 pmWell, CONservative, feel free to prove the Vice President could not declassify Plame’s status then.
Comment by Jake
He was on Faux News, a known propaganda arm for this regime. This is someone who still insists there was a link between 9/11 and Iraq, and that the latter had WMDs, not to mention the infamous 'last throes' remark, why SHOULD we believe anything he says?
March 16th, 2007 at 5:47 pmJust like you lied about my “brain malfunction†CONservative?
Comment by Jake
Whatever you have to tell yourself to look yourself in the mirror each day...
March 16th, 2007 at 5:48 pmAll together now, say
Jake!
March 16th, 2007 at 5:53 pmFake!
Yellow Cake!
No one said that your have a brain malfunction. The only mystery is whether you possess any brain function.
March 16th, 2007 at 5:56 pmGee I wonder why the WH obstructed justice all these years by not allowing Knodell to testify? Anyone watching today's personal "knodell meltdown" knows the answer to that one.
March 16th, 2007 at 5:59 pmNo one is safe any longer if a covert CIA agent is outed by the very government they serve! Head for the hills!
March 16th, 2007 at 6:00 pmI see that my "brain malfunction" remark resonated with lil'Jake the Troll-Snake. What a hoot! He's so predictable and sooooooo ignorant.
March 16th, 2007 at 6:01 pmComment by the fly-man — March 16, 2007 @ 5:23 pm
Whatever you say.
March 16th, 2007 at 6:02 pmgummitch:
I am comfortable, in this forum, with what I have presented thus far (opportunity, authority, and motive for declassification). If no one even rebuts that much, I win by default.
CONservative:
That's right -- Cheney was on Fox News, the channel John Edwards is too scared to go on -- even if they provided him with a hair and makeup person. As for the link between 9/11 and Iraq, you know that Saddam supported terrorists, right? Every intelligence agency in the world thought Saddam had WMDs, and the risk he could transfer those to terrorists post-9/11 was too great. Lastly, how long does each "throe" last?
March 16th, 2007 at 6:02 pmBTW, when the WH took the "no comment" when asked questions about this leak due to an "ongoing investigation", what the heck were they talking about? Their investigation which didn't exist?? What dorks.
March 16th, 2007 at 6:03 pm"why SHOULD we believe anything [Cheney] says?"
we shouldn't, but 30% of the country disagrees
March 16th, 2007 at 6:03 pmRUCerious and/or WaltTheMan:
Yes, very funny. Care to debate my points?
March 16th, 2007 at 6:03 pmSorry....I am no lawyer, but I don't understand WHY anyone at the White House would release to the press information about someone who worked at the CIA, covert or not...WHY? ANd to do it in such an elaborate and obviously coordinated fashion? This did not happen by accident. I am not a genius, but even I can figure this out.
March 16th, 2007 at 6:04 pmSecondly, why would the Pres and VP and their staff release classified information about a covert agent (and Victoria Toensing is full of shit) that would damage spies working with informants abroad who were collecting information on weapons of mass destruction in order to PROTECT our HOMELAND, for God's SAke? This is an outrage. It is TREASON. It is HIGH CRIMES against us, the people of the U.S. and should be grounds for impeachent and criminal prosecution of Bush ANd Chaney and all others involved.
We all are certain now that the act of declassifying Plame's status was an intentional act by Cheney and Bush in order to out her and imperil those with whom she had any contact. Their level of reprehensible behavior is apparent now. Whether they had the "right" to do this is irrelevant to the cause of showing just how low these thugs will go to do their dirty work. They may not be impeached by the letter of the law; but they will be effectively "emotionally impeached" by the "intent" behind each of their disgusting activities.
March 16th, 2007 at 6:05 pmComment by Jake — March 16, 2007 @ 5:30 pm
Sure Jake just like you never pretended to be an attorney. West Wing, that's a good one. I'm going to look you up on IMDBpro.com. West Wing, indeed. So are you back to admitting you're a Walmart greeter?
March 16th, 2007 at 6:06 pmCompromising our national security is a breach of trust by this administration and must be punished.
Covering up the "tactics" involved in the breach of trust means "obstruction of justice" - plain & simple.
March 16th, 2007 at 6:06 pmP.S. veritas, et al — please feel free to point out my “brain malfunction†with any point herein.
Comment by Jake
Jake we don't have to point out your "brain malfunction" you do that all by yourself every time you try to show how intelligent you are.
You don't even know what you don't know.
March 16th, 2007 at 6:08 pmgoose1: "Anyone find it interesting that Waxman left Vicki’s testimony open and was going to exam her statements under oath?"
I'd bet good money that by tomorrow, Victoria Toensing is going to be "lawyering up." Lying to or misleading a congressional committee is a federal crime and she should know.
March 16th, 2007 at 6:08 pmand Toensing (the attorney-turned-baglady) thought she would come in and create a smokescreen between "the law" and the "executive order" - interestingly, it's precisely the "executive order of Bush 41" which will bring down his own son's presidency - amazing how karma works every time! Little did he know at the time he was concocting the law....
As for Toensing, Waxman clearly shut her trap when he told her that she was asked to only address "the executive order" and she continued to make a jerk of herself by addressing "the law"....
I guess it goes without saying that "there's no fool like an old fool" and Miss T-Bag is a very, very old (hag) fool.
March 16th, 2007 at 6:09 pm"Lastly, how long does each “throe†last?"
are you f*cking serious?
March 16th, 2007 at 6:09 pmveritas:
If you are all so certain now that declassifying Plame’s status was an intentional act by Cheney, could you please remind gummitch? He seems to have forgotten.
shane:
I never pretended to be an attorney, West Wing actor, West Wing employee, or a Walmart greeter. I provided quote to back up my assertions above -- I'd like to see you back up yours.
March 16th, 2007 at 6:11 pmBTW, when the WH took the “no comment†when asked questions about this leak due to an “ongoing investigationâ€, what the heck were they talking about? Their investigation which didn’t exist?? What dorks.
Comment by veritas — March 16, 2007 @ 6:03 pm
Veritas, you just made my day!
March 16th, 2007 at 6:13 pmYes, I am, pgw. Have you read The Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire? What page number did her last throe begin on?
March 16th, 2007 at 6:13 pmJake, the fact that you're still beating that dead horse about Saddam's support for terrorists kind of disqualifies you from being taken seriously by anyone who is at all informed on the facts.
March 16th, 2007 at 6:15 pmJake -
Why did the CIA request the outside investigation? Was it because they thought no crime had been committed?
How can you make statement like Mr. Wilson lied without producing any proof? Mrs. Wilson specifically addressed the issue of who sent Mr. Wilson today in her sworn testimony.
How can you say that the White could not have held an investigation because of the ongoing investigation by Fitzgerald, when Fitzgerald's investigation didn't start until months after leak occurred?
At this point you have not presented any evidence to support your claims. Is this how all Republicans argue without evidence without logic?
March 16th, 2007 at 6:16 pmbluedog40 and goose1 - you betcha! Very sharp on Waxman's part to keep the records open until her comments were checked for veracity, while testifying under oath. Did you see the deer-in-the-headlights-look on Vicky's puss when Waxman made that clear to her? Did she ever backpedal a bit! I hope she gets what she so deserves and that will probably be prison time for lying to a congressional investigation committee under oath.
I think we're beginning to see why so many Rethugs have refused to raise their right hands and take the oath when they've testified in the past....because they're all disgusting liars, that's why.
It will be fun to watch the demise of the career of one Miss Vicky Toensig now, won't it?
March 16th, 2007 at 6:16 pmComment by hangtraitorswholeak — March 16, 2007 @ 6:04 pm
Well if you're not a genius and you get it and I'm not a genius and I get it why can't JAKE get it? He needs to take that alzheimer's medicine I don't care what he say.
March 16th, 2007 at 6:17 pmI like your name.
That's good - because this hearing today just "made my day" and will bring down this entire administration - and handily!
March 16th, 2007 at 6:18 pmValerie Plame testified under oath today that as a secret operative for the CIA, one of the things she was doing is keeping track of illegal nuclear weapons in Iraq and elsewhere. Some of the cultists here seem to think that it would NOT be treason for the VP to ruin an intelligence asset involved with that while we were planning an invasion based on the contention that they had illegal nuclear weapons. I don't know if I have ever seen Americans act so strangely and harbor such treasonous, unamerican thoughts in all of my 50 plus years.
March 16th, 2007 at 6:20 pmIsn't it interesting how the Rethugs and Trolls have only dead people (Saddam) and ex presidents to blame for the avalanche of corruption now falling down on the people of this country? It's so typical of the psychotic condition of the blame game - some people really believe that they are so disempowered that they must blame someone (anyone) else for choices they make. Hysterical to view.....psychiatry 101 here on their posts.
March 16th, 2007 at 6:20 pmYou are certainly entitled to your opinion, Bluedog49
March 16th, 2007 at 6:20 pmI provided quote to back up my assertions above — I’d like to see you back up yours.
Comment by Jake — March 16, 2007 @ 6:11 pm
Maybe you'd like to point out what number above cause I didn't see it and I don't have all freakin' day to sort out your lies and fabrications. What would you like to see me back up now, where I pointed out your lies. You're really not worth too much effort old man.
March 16th, 2007 at 6:21 pmI’d bet good money that by tomorrow, Victoria Toensing is going to be “lawyering up.†Lying to or misleading a congressional committee is a federal crime and she should know.
Comment by Bluedog49 — March 16, 2007 @ 6:08 pm
If Clinton got impeached because of his sex life shouldn't she be in trouble for lying about her age?
March 16th, 2007 at 6:23 pmBoth issues are just so important.
ben:
I am not a Republican, first of all. I'm sorry you think the Vice President admitting to having the authority, opportunity and motive to declassify is "no evidence" but, again, I feel comfortable with my hypothesis so far. Especially if no on rebuts it.
As for why the CIA requested an outside investigation, most likely because of the major turf war going on among competing intelligence agencies within the government. I don't know if they knew there was no crime or not. I can try to find the link to the bipartisan Senate Intelligence Report that stated Mr. Wilson lied, but I thought you guys would already know about that allegation. The questions asked to Mrs. Wilson seemed pre-scripted to me, so I wouldn't put anything past Waxman and her.
Lastly, I am saying that the White House though there was no law broken, at least up until the point in time when Fitzgerald was appointed. After that, their hands were tied.
March 16th, 2007 at 6:27 pmactually, i think a "throe" is the amount of time from when you shoot a man in the face, go to sleep, and then finally, in the morning, talk to the police. that's the guy that you and only 30% of america are carrying water for.
March 16th, 2007 at 6:27 pmshane:
My post # 165 provided links to actual transcripts for the points I was making. Your post # 190 accused me of pretending to be an attorney, a West Wing actor, or a Walmart greeter -- all without a single link or quote.
Is that clear enough for you?
March 16th, 2007 at 6:30 pmpgw:
I disagree -- some "last throes" through history have lasted decades, if not longer.
March 16th, 2007 at 6:32 pmJakers, I'd love to debate you. Seems like you didn't get enough trashing from VK?
What if Plames status was declassified by the White House?
Comment by Jake — March 16, 2007 @ 3:12 pm
Yes, the White House has the legal authority to declassify the covert operation that Ms Plame was involved with.
Now, that said. Can you name me another administration that has declassified such a valuable asset for the purpose of discrediting someone who publicly called BS on their asses?
March 16th, 2007 at 6:33 pmben:
"no on" = no one
"though" = thought
(Darn spell-checker ; )
March 16th, 2007 at 6:34 pmI'd sure like to see the White house completely declassify all the undercover operatives working on domestic spying. That'd be great.
March 16th, 2007 at 6:34 pmNo links needed to prove you are a worthless waste of oxygen and space Jake. Senile old neocon fu*ktard. A traitor to your country.
March 16th, 2007 at 6:41 pm"I disagree — some “last throes†through history have lasted decades, if not longer."
i'm sure that's what the parents of the soldiers serving in iraq thought when dick made his 'last throes' prediction. parsing statements while americans continue to get their limbs blown off in iraq doesn't "play well in peoria," as the saying goes.
March 16th, 2007 at 6:43 pmSame to you, Spudge_Boy.
March 16th, 2007 at 6:43 pmRUCerious:
Can you name me another administration that has declassified such a valuable asset . . .
Assumes facts not yet in evidence.
March 16th, 2007 at 6:45 pmAbout these trolls that receive entirely too much attention here….
Do they get paid by the post and by how tightly they conform to the talking points/party line/cult speak ? And do they get paid by the Republican National Committee, one of those neocon nonthinktanks or the Likud party….or the KKK or what…? And do they put the money into their PayPal accounts or what? I have a friend who is whacky and a former hooker and not too bright, can she apply for a job with one of your employers Jake? Patrick? Valient Venus? Please let me know. She claims to be a real good ho who gets orgasm when she lies. Kinda fringe benefit some of you may share?
March 16th, 2007 at 6:53 pmOK, let's review. • The President looked us in the eye and said he'd be "getting to the bottom of this." The record now seems to show that he was bullshitting us.
• Valerie Plame has testified under oath that she was a covert operative.
• The head of the CIA has testified under oath that she was a covert operative.
• In the midst of a "War on Terrorism," Valerie Plame's job was tracking the illegal proliferation of nuclear weapons.
• The VP definitely intitiated the disclosing of her job which effectively ended her secret operation.
• The VP may have unilaterally declassified her status.
BY WHAT TORTURED SET OF LOGIC DOES ANY PATRIOTIC AMERICAN NOT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THIS???!!! It's ridiculous. You Bush supporters are like cultists. You owe more allegiance to your dear leader than you do the country. it's a complete disgrace. You are a disgrace.
March 16th, 2007 at 6:55 pm"BY WHAT TORTURED SET OF LOGIC DOES ANY PATRIOTIC AMERICAN NOT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THIS???!!!"
2/3 of america has a problem with it; 1/3 do not.
March 16th, 2007 at 7:02 pmit certainly does not pass the smell test.
Sponge - Have you heard when Joe Wilson will be testifying before the committee?
March 16th, 2007 at 7:03 pmI have to say that I feel stupid for being shocked, but I am shocked. I would have thought that Bush supporters would just steer clear of this. Defending it is simply astounding. They've taken pains to remind us at every opportunity that we're in a war. We all now know that Valerie Plame was a huge ASSET in this war. Do these mindless, unamerican Bush supporters have one shread of self-respect? Do they have no shame? Do they see themselves as the "good guys?" It simply boggles the mind and I'm glad it's Friday. I need a cocktail. I think I need a few cocktails.
March 16th, 2007 at 7:07 pmJake: "Assumes facts not yet in evidence."
What a f*cking weasel.
March 16th, 2007 at 7:17 pmFrom ONE of my favourite sites, Little Miss Attila:
"Finally, John Podhoretz provides a funny bit of testimony telling us that, although she did not recommend her hubby for the 2002 Niger trip, Ms. Wilson went to her boss accompanied by the man who did, talked to her hubby about the assignment, and wrote the recommending email. She also (per the SSCI) had recommended her hubby for his 1999 trip to Niger. So please pardon our confusion about her obvious non-involvement here. (And how will this be treated in the movie? Will Val be dragged into her boss's office at gunpoint? Or depending on how they want to position the film, the producer could have the CIA waterboard her into giving up her husband's name - good looking woman, bondage, water everywhere... just thinking out loud and trying to help. TGIF.)"
Who do you think is going to play "St. Val of Arc" in Michael Moore's "documentary"? (There's some serious money riding on this....)
March 16th, 2007 at 7:26 pmBluePuP - We're astounded YOUR team defends, Joe Wilson, with his confirmed allergy to the truth......
March 16th, 2007 at 7:28 pmNow why on Earth Valient Crackhead, would this administration not investigate the leak?
March 16th, 2007 at 7:29 pmSponge - Have you heard when Joe Wilson will be testifying before the committee? Comment by valiant venus — March 16, 2007 @ 7:03 pm
Mighty Anorexic, can you tell us when you'll be *issuing* your apology for smearing Wilson and Plame? Now that it's been *proven* - the attacks on them were entirely *political*?
Oh wait, a st*pid c*nt like yours can't face reality, it's why you have an eating disorder, and whine ceaselessly like a spoiled rotting toothed princess.
March 16th, 2007 at 7:33 pmBluePuP - We’re astounded YOUR team defends, Joe Wilson, with his confirmed allergy to the truth…… Comment by valiant venus — March 16, 2007 @ 7:28 pm
Funny, when you consider that only your side is in *jail* for lying about the affair! Someone as allergic to *food* as you are, is equally as allergic to facing reality.
You're one st*pid little c*nt!
March 16th, 2007 at 7:34 pmVV: "BluePuP - We’re astounded YOUR team defends, Joe Wilson, with his confirmed allergy to the truth…"
What? You mean the guy who told the American public that the claims about Saddam making nuclear weapons were bogus? That guy? You mean the guy who President George H.W. Bush called "truly, a great American," after he stood up to Hussein on behalf of Americans in Iraq during the Gulf War? That guy? You know what, cultist. I'll take that guy any day of the week over your little coven of treasonous freaks.
March 16th, 2007 at 7:35 pmAssumes facts not yet in evidence.
Comment by Jake — March 16, 2007 @ 6:45 pm
BAHAHAHA, you st*pid piece of rotting old sh*t! Your entire *argument* is based on facts not yet in evidence! We already *know* this was political, and put our national security at risk. That's treason, and an offense that has a clear penalty. You're a fcuking terrorist - you disgusting piece of filth!
March 16th, 2007 at 7:36 pm[...] Publisher, The Gavel, The AP, CNN, The Washington Post, New York Times, JustOneMinute, The Nation, Think Progress, Firedoglake, Nico @ Think progress Hat Tips to you [...]
March 16th, 2007 at 7:37 pmValiant Venus, I'd like you to clear something up for us here - if it were true that a valuable intelligence asset was ruined for political purposes, would you think that was a bad thing, or would that be OK with you?
March 16th, 2007 at 7:41 pm"She also (per the SSCI) had recommended her hubby for his 1999 trip to Niger."
why would she need to recommend wilson when he had diplomatic experience with both in niger and iraq? that's a no-brainer for the c.i.a. i'm sure the neo-cons would've rather sent someone who has a less relevant resume; maybe someone who just hangs out in italy forging documents. [michael ledeen, i'm looking at you.]
March 16th, 2007 at 7:54 pmWhat, you can't answer a simple question like that? A question which is at the heart of what people have been arguing about? Almost makes me suspect that you don't have the best of intentions. Time for those cocktails.
March 16th, 2007 at 7:57 pmMA, can't speak tothe article can you?
Hey, look over here. Hey Look over there!!! Hey there goes Sandy Berger! Oh OH there goes Joe Wilson!
Really, your attempts at logic are truly pathethic.
Face up to the fact that your hero, the worst President this country has had or will EVER have, is nothing but a damned liar.
March 16th, 2007 at 8:02 pmHonestly, MA, with reasoning like that, you should apply for Tony Snow's straw headed job.
I guess that is your job - apply the same worthless talking points to liberal blogs.
March 16th, 2007 at 8:11 pmIt is so frickin’ funny to watch the Moonbats defend CIA operative Plame with their covert operations, overthrowing foreign goverments, domestic surveillance, propaganda, stuffed ballot boxes, purchased elections, extortion, blackmail, sexual intrigue, false stories about opponents in the local media, infiltration and disruption of opposing political parties, kidnapping, beating, torture, intimidation, economic sabotage, death squads and even assassination. etc. The Wilsons are part of the CIA atrocitities and you guys are defending them!
Plame/CIA is in the torture business. Nice people to defend Moonbats!!!
Oh the Irony is too much!
Heh
March 16th, 2007 at 8:21 pm[...] Video here [...]
March 16th, 2007 at 8:28 pmThe Wilsons are part of the CIA atrocitities and you guys are defending them! Plame/CIA is in the torture business. Nice people to defend Moonbats!!! Oh the Irony is too much! Heh Comment by Flaco — March 16, 2007 @ 8:21 pm
When you have proof that the Wilsons were involved in *torture* in any way, come back and see us - idiot. Until then, I'll remind you that the CIA participating in *torture* is a Bush/Republican thing. If what you CONs keep saying is true, then Plame is a Dem, and didn't do torture.
Your *twisted-logic* that so quickly contradicts itself is typical of the wingnuts! On the *irony* of exactly how *st*pid* you are, while *pretending* to enlighten other never ceases to make me chuckle! You're a fool!
March 16th, 2007 at 8:31 pmwow ... and it all came crumbling down ...
now I know I've said this before many times to the point that of despair : "I don't know how they're going to get out of this" and been disappointed ...
but this time ... wow
I'd love to be a fly on the wall at the White House right now - it must look like a room full of drunk monkeys trying to put a jigsaw puzzle together while dancing on thumb-tacks ...
March 16th, 2007 at 8:37 pmA point that everyone keeps missing is that the story is more about Brewster Jennings than it is about Valerie Plame. They (the Bushies) may be able to convince themselves that Valerie was not a covert agent, but what excuse do they have for outing a cover company that was covering numerous CIA agents? Why was Brewster Jennings never brought up in anything Fitzgerald did? Personally, I think that Fitzgerald made a deal with Bush and he came through on the deal. Someone should have been indicted for blowing the cover of a CIA cover company therein putting many CIA agents in harms way. For all we know, people are dead because Rove, Armatage and Novack outed Valerie Plame and her cover company.
March 16th, 2007 at 8:51 pmwhat can bush say?
"... well, I know I said publicly that I wanted to get to the bottom of who in my White House may or may not have been part of this leak, but, I ahh, well, ah ... terr'a ... I was investigating , ah terr'a ... busy ... hard work ... it's hard work ... if I stopped protecting you, and you and your little babies and families from evil-doers ... no time ... gotta go ... "
really, what excuse can bush have for not DOING what he said - and by LAW is obligated - to do?
March 16th, 2007 at 8:55 pm"valiant venus":
Being one of the key people to help draft the Intelligence Identities Protection Act of 1982, Toensing has been retained by a number of media organizations to give commentary on the Plame Affair.
You misspelled "shill for the Dubya maldaministration" (and that she is; as well as a long-time partisan Republican operative). As I pointed out elsewhere, it could have been written by Daffy Duck or aliens from Betelgeuse, and it would still be the same law. Her misdirections about "stationed" -- which does not exist in the statutory language -- (as I pointed out in another thread) indicate her fundamental dishonesty.
Cheers,
March 16th, 2007 at 9:07 pmI’d love to be a fly on the wall at the White House right now - it must look like a room full of drunk monkeys trying to put a jigsaw puzzle together while dancing on thumb-tacks …
Comment by Com-n-sense
And the dyspeptic monkey poo, flying everywhere.
March 16th, 2007 at 9:19 pmComment by Kate Henry #241
Kate,
...It ain't OVER...
...til it's...
...OVER...
March 16th, 2007 at 11:49 pmKate, I agree. Her's my take on it.
March 17th, 2007 at 12:15 amThere were people criticizing the decision to go to war. Questions about the intel, and the evidence were out there (how did so many of us become so skeptical: we learned about the reasons to doubt the administration in the print media). So why did they zero in on Wilson and therefore his wife? I think it was exactly because she was working for Brewster Jennings and she, with the "company," was working on weapons proliferation. They were a carefully set up front company and they were close to proving the same thing that Wilson was claiming - the administration is wrong; the invasion is misguided.
So I think the admin. set out to close down the CIA company, Brewster Jennings. I believe that was the point. Wilson was the avenue to Plame and she was the avenue to Brewster Jennings. If you look at the chart at the hearing today - who could have been the one to tell Cheney and Rove - it had to be Tenet. Who else would have known the full story of Brewster Jennings?
THE CHIMPEACH MONKEY IS GETTING ANTSY AND HOPPING AROUND AS THE ORGAN-GRINDER(Rudy Giuliani) TURNS HIS HURDY-GURDY TO THE TUNE OF:
"YES, WE HAVE NO SUBPOENAS,
WE HAVE-A NO SUBPOENAS TODAY!
WE'VE HEARINGS, AND MEETINGS,
SALUTATIONS, AND GREETINGS,
AND ALL SORTS OF NUTS WHO SAY
WE HAVE A "HOTTIE" Jean Schmidt TOE-MOTT-O,
A Gonzo "HOT PO-TOTT-O,
BUT YES, WE HAVE NO SUBPOENAS,
WE HAVE NO SUBPOENAS TODAY!
YES, WE HAVE NO SUBPOENAS,
March 17th, 2007 at 1:24 amWE HAVE-A NO SUBPOENAS TODAY!
JUST TRY THOSE repug-NUTS
THOSE pundit-NUTS and blog-NUTS
THERE AIN'T MANY NUTS LIKE THEY!
WE'LL SELL YOU TWO KINDS OF RED HERRING,
OBFUSCATE and PREVARICATE AT HEARING!
BUT YES, WE HAVE NO SUBPOENAS,
WE HAVE NO SUBPOENAS TODAY!!!!!"
Want to know who Knodell resembles? Check here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Martin_Bormann_Staatliche_Photographie.jpg
March 17th, 2007 at 8:52 amhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Martin_Bormann_Staatliche_Photographie.jpg
If you want to know who Knodell resembles check this out!
March 17th, 2007 at 8:55 amThe Wilsons are part of the CIA atrocitities and you guys are defending them!
Plame/CIA is in the torture business. Nice people to defend Moonbats!!!
Oh the Irony is too much!
Heh
Comment by Flaco — March 16, 2007 @ 8:21 pm
Flakehead already posted this same message twice on the Valerie Plame thread and perhaps elsewhere. Is he going senile, or perhaps already there. Oh, but the irony is too much that a neo-CON troll has admitted that the US intelligence services engage in torture! Heh, yoursel, Flakehead.
March 17th, 2007 at 11:37 am#233 - "Valiant Venus, I’d like you to clear something up for us here - if it were true that a valuable intelligence asset was ruined for political purposes, would you think that was a bad thing, or would that be OK with you?" Comment by Bluedog49
St. Val of Arc was SUCH a "valuable intelligence asset" she claimed the job-description "covert" and was roundly repudiated. This repudiation was not politically based, or personality motivated - it was based on the LAW! Victoria Toensing noted REPEATEDLY (after continued Dem badgering) "Ms. Wilson did NOT fit the legal definition of the term "undercover" or "covert". So as you can see, counselor, the premise of your question is seriously flawed - but why am I not surprised.....
March 17th, 2007 at 1:07 pmHenry WAXmans' true personality emerged in his exchange with Victoria Toensing. I especially liked the part where he wouldn't allow her to answer the questions he was posing!Sadder yet was watching Diane Watson (D-California). THAT was painful - My fourth grader has better reading skills, questions and common sense....
March 17th, 2007 at 1:12 pmVV ignores the fact that the CIA declared Plame was covert.
March 17th, 2007 at 1:52 pmHayden, Dir. of CIA, declarerd Plame was covert.
Plame declared under oath that she was covert.
Toensing has no way of knowing all that Plame was doing because she was covert.
The word-parsing, Toensing, helped write the law 25 years ago, but in 2003, Bush wrote Executive order 12985 and THAT is what has been violated - his own order.
Apologists have been trying for four years to make this story less than what it is, but the facts are not on their side.
Exposing a covert agent is treason.
Got brains ?
March 17th, 2007 at 2:18 pmMarie ignores the fact Val wasn't even sure of her "covert" status - and General Hayden, the new CIA director, did not properly quote THE LAW. Don't let yourself be confused with FACTS, Marie. I'm sure Gen Hayden has NEVER made a mistake........well, that's what his mother said!
March 17th, 2007 at 2:55 pmFIX THE SOUND! All of your videos have HORRID sound. I don't even watch them cuz it's so bad.....I just take the name and go to youtube directly and watch it.
Whatever you are doing to your sound, STOP. IT sux!
March 17th, 2007 at 2:58 pmHa ha, you American are fucked up, this is your democracy? This is what you killed so many iraqis for? I can see the roman empire crumbling. I shall do nothing but dance and party.
March 17th, 2007 at 3:27 pmI don't think VV will give in to the facts on this argument. She has been listening to and lying about this affair since July 2003. The facts that came out 3/16/07 are disregarded, and she sides with the lone conservative who insists everyone else is lying.
March 17th, 2007 at 4:08 pmExecutive order 12985 was violated - a covert agent was exposed whether or not VV likes to admit it.
THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary
For Immediate Release
March 25, 2003
EXECUTIVE ORDER 13292
- - - - - - -
FURTHER AMENDMENT TO EXECUTIVE ORDER 12958, AS AMENDED,
CLASSIFIED NATIONAL SECURITY INFORMATION
This is the order, written by Bush, that was violated by his own people.
March 17th, 2007 at 4:15 pm#258 - Gosh Marie - Thanks for the info - I KNOW this is hard for you to believe but apparently the honchos at the CIA disagree with YOU. Who'da thunk? The CIA supervisor Plame reported her "outing" to - remember the guy from Vanity Fair Joe blabbed to? apparently didn't think enough of Vals covert status to lean on Robert Novak (and we know the NYT would spill a national secret in a second to hurt the administration). Funny, no one from the CIA gave the heads up to Richard Armitage, et al. Now I know you think people should read minds (or in Braid Faire's case, runes) but your theory is such a stretch.
March 17th, 2007 at 5:17 pmWatching the little martian, Dennis Kucinich, thank Val P. for her "service to our country" and feign outrage at her "outing" - Isn't this the little putz that would gut our national defense and establish a Department of Peace?? Puhleeeeeze..........
March 17th, 2007 at 5:19 pm[...] Link [...]
March 17th, 2007 at 5:52 pm[...] ThinkProgress: Dr. James Knodell, director of the Office of Security at the White House, revealed today that to [...]
March 17th, 2007 at 6:02 pm#261 Unvaliant Venus aka Mighty Hypocrite
March 17th, 2007 at 6:02 pmYou've used the tired Vanity Fair chestnut extensively. But in actuality the Wilsons appeared in that magazine after Robert No-facts outed Valerie as a CIA agent. Not only has CIA Director Hayden confirmed Valerie Plame's covert status, but so have several colleagues who entered the agency the same time she did. Get over it already, VV/MA. Nobody here is falling for your hackneyed arguments but your fellow trolls.
It's difficult to reason with VV who cannot admit she has backed the wrong horse. Her boy-king is a total failure. His administration is full of stooges and criminals. They have broken laws, including their own, but their toadies continue to defend them with their slim number in the Senate.
March 17th, 2007 at 7:19 pmThis adminsitration is unethical, illegal and just plain wrong. But for VV, who has spent the last 6 years defending an warmongering egomaniac who thinks he is Caesar, it is just out of her abilities to think clearly.
Even facts are not comprehended, but twisted into her mold.
Marie ignores the fact Val wasn’t even sure of her “covert†status - and General Hayden, the new CIA director, did not properly quote THE LAW. Don’t let yourself be confused with FACTS, Marie. I’m sure Gen Hayden has NEVER made a mistake……..well, that’s what his mother said!
Comment by valiant venus
And how wasn't Valerie Plame sure of her covert status, Mighty Unvaliant Hypocrite? She clearly declared that she was covert until Robert No-facts outed her. We also know that you never let yourself be confused with FACTS, when it comes to spewing your neo-CON talking points. Yes, Ms. Toensing was familiar with the law, which she helped draft. However she admitted under oath that she had never actually asked the CIA about whether Valerie Plame had been doing undercover work overseas during the five years prior to her outing by NO-facts and, thus, was completely in the dark as to whether or not the law applied to Plame--which it did. Nothing like cherry-picking the facts, is there, VV/MA?
March 17th, 2007 at 8:01 pm[...] a probe, report, or sanctions as a result of the outing of covert CIA operative Valerie Plame.read more | digg [...]
March 17th, 2007 at 9:05 pmTop Bush Official Reveals White House Never Investigated Plame Leak...
Apparently the disclosure of top secret information and the outing of an undercover CIA agent ranks below clipping toenails on Bush's priority queue....
March 18th, 2007 at 2:24 amhis face should be paler than his hands
March 18th, 2007 at 1:07 pmVice President Cheney has virtually admitted that the callous
treatment of "classified information" related to Valerie Plame,
originated through his orders, in an interview with Tim Russet:
Vice President Cheney:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idPFHEdp-Qo
-----
President Bush acknowledged that disclosure of "classified information"
is a serious matter and would be dealt with, if it has originated
from within his Administration.
President Bush:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ft0xqyilpo
-----
These Video Bloggers covering the Libby Trial
give a few reasons why disclosing Valerie Plame's identity
should matter to everyone:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WtW-it56w4
-----
Don't let the "daily news cycle", spin you,
These Disclosures MATTER!
BIG Time!
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