Ex-Bush Official: I Fixed The Facts Around The Policy
Ex-Bush Official: I Fixed The Facts Around The Policy
Philip Cooney is the former chief of staff to President Bush’s Council on Environmental Quality who made hundreds of edits to government climate reports in ways that played down links between human activity and global warming. He worked for the American Petroleum Institute before coming to the Bush administration, and left the White House for Exxon shortly after his edits were revealed.
Cooney appeared yesterday before the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee. Committee chairman Henry Waxman (D-CA) told Cooney he wanted to determine whether what is “driving the policy of this administration on global warming and climate change is the science or whether it’s something called the politically correct science.”
Cooney admitted it was the latter: “My objective was to align these communications with the administration’s stated policy” of climate skepticism. Watch it:
If Cooney’s line of fixing facts around policy sounds familiar, it’s because it is a Bush administration classic, made famous by the Downing Street Memo on the White House’s pre-war planning:
C reported on his recent talks in Washington. There was a perceptible shift in attitude. Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy. The NSC had no patience with the UN route, and no enthusiasm for publishing material on the Iraqi regime’s record. There was little discussion in Washington of the aftermath after military action.
Gristmill and Chris Mooney have much more on yesterday’s hearing.
Transcript:
Mr. Cooney, I guess what we’re trying to figure out is whether what drove the policy and is driving the policy of this administration on global warming and climate change is the science or whether it’s something called the politically correct science.
And as I look at the edits that you’ve proposed, I think there were a…
(UNKNOWN): Mr. Chairman, while you’re looking for those, may I just ask some questions of the chair?
WAXMAN: Excuse me, the gentleman’s out of order.
(UNKNOWN): I think, Mr. Chairman, a point of order. Did you recognize yourself for an additional five minutes before the rest of the panel has a chance to question for five minutes?
WAXMAN: No, I did not.
I recognize Mr. Issa first for the second round. You proposed 181 edits to the strategic plan, 113 edits to the other global warming reports. There were three reports.
I guess what I’m trying to find out is whether all of your proposed edits moved in one direction, which was to increase the uncertainty in global warming science.
Would that be a fair statement or an unfair statement?
COONEY: I think the fair statement would be that my comments were aligned with the findings of the National Academy of Sciences in June 2001, as emphasized by the president in his policy book in chapter 3 on June 11th, 2001.
WAXMAN: Mr. Cooney, you had a senior position at the White House, but there were officials in the White House who were more senior to you. Your immediate boss was James Connaughton, chairman of the White House Council on Environmental Quality.
Was Mr. Connaughton aware of your role in the proposed edits for climate change reports?
COONEY: He knew that we were reviewing reports as they came in, ordinarily from OMB from review.
WAXMAN: Did he personally review your edits?
COONEY: No, not most of them.
(UNKNOWN): Mr. Chairman…
WAXMAN: Would you discuss…
(UNKNOWN): Mr. Chairman, his boss is behind him and is available.
WAXMAN: Excuse, but I have the time. I didn’t interrupt you. I waited till you were finished and then I interrupted you.
Did you discuss the edits with him?
COONEY: No, not ordinarily.
WAXMAN: Did he give you any instructions about how any of these three documents should be edited?
COONEY: No. He understood that my objective was to align these communications with the administration’s stated policy.
WAXMAN: And the administration’s stated policy was different than what the scientists were saying in those documents?
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Death from a thousand cuts.
March 20th, 2007 at 12:16 pmI knew it!
March 20th, 2007 at 12:16 pmThe Orwellian concept of ‘fixing facts around the policy’ is a cornerstone of the neocon mindset, and is a concept that Chimpy & CO. have zealously pursued since 2000.
Nothing sums up this concept better than this excerpt from Ron Suskind’s Without a Doubt:
March 20th, 2007 at 12:18 pmThe video link no workie for me.
March 20th, 2007 at 12:19 pmThere was more evidence that Saddam had WMD than there is that humans are the sole cause of global warming.
March 20th, 2007 at 12:19 pmThe fix is in. It’s time to take this to the ultimately responsible party who demanded the fixed info. It’s time to file charges of impeachment and lying to Congress.
March 20th, 2007 at 12:20 pmJake sez:
Wow…I don’t think I’ve ever seen a more manifestly false statement ever on this board…well done, Shakey!
March 20th, 2007 at 12:22 pmThis administration fixes all the facts around all the policies. It’s telling Dumbya what he wants to hear.
March 20th, 2007 at 12:22 pm#5 Jake
Nice unsubstantiated assertion!!
I’m sure if you say it a few more times, the rest of the knuckle draggers will join in your chorus of idiocy!!
March 20th, 2007 at 12:24 pmThis guy better hire some heavy duty protection. I see an ‘accident’ in his immediate future.
March 20th, 2007 at 12:24 pmSigned The Prognosticator…
Jake, Believes the bible supports war and he says I have a tin foil hat.
March 20th, 2007 at 12:26 pmPlease post the evidence that global warming is due solely to anthropogenic causes, as opposed to those occurring in natural environments without human influences.
March 20th, 2007 at 12:26 pmYet another Chimpy Regime scandal.
There are so many now, I can hardly keep them straight.
March 20th, 2007 at 12:27 pmTripMaster Monkey,
You must consider that Jake declared yesterday he was around for FDR’s administration and apparently old enough to remember the politics of that era so he’s really really old and confused.
I’ll bet5 his colostomy bag needs emptying, I’ll probably be about half mental sitting in my own sh*t fifty years from now too, so lets not be too hard on the old codger
March 20th, 2007 at 12:29 pmThere was more evidence that Saddam had WMD than there is that humans are the sole cause of global warming.
Comment by Jake
Probably a lot of truthiness to this statement. Bush attempted to control both sets of data after all.
March 20th, 2007 at 12:29 pmThere was more evidence that Saddam had WMD than there is that humans are the sole cause of global warming.
Comment by Jake
Prove it…. ( not that you have ever backed up a damn thing you have ever said here with a verifiable fact )
Show me the evidence.
verifiable links to a reputable source.
As with the subject of this thread, we are on to you neocons twisting things into lies.
Lets see your proof, Jacko
March 20th, 2007 at 12:29 pmThere was more evidence that Saddam had WMD than there is that humans are the sole cause of global warming.
Comment by Jake — March 20, 2007 @ 12:19 pm
No there isn’t.
March 20th, 2007 at 12:30 pm#5 What kind of evidence do you want? You’re going to have to be satisfied with a theory supported by facts which fit the model — after all, that’s all we have to explain gravity.
March 20th, 2007 at 12:30 pmPrograms, Programs Getcha White House Scandal Programs right here!
March 20th, 2007 at 12:30 pmPrograms! Can’t tell the players without a program! Only 3 dollars, Programs, right here, programs!
Jake, go back to Freeperville. Nobody here gives a crap what you say.
March 20th, 2007 at 12:31 pmGood. We need to keep religion and government seperate.
March 20th, 2007 at 12:31 pmPlease post the evidence that global warming is due solely to anthropogenic causes
Comment by Jake — March 20, 2007 @ 12:26 pm
Solely, Jake? Now whoever said it was solely due to anthropogenic causes? Nice try moving the goal posts, lackey. Anthropogenic causes are the primary driver of global warming, but nobody is claiming they are the sole driver.
March 20th, 2007 at 12:32 pmgoose1:
Even the Pope supports the “Just War” doctrine, based on the Bible, too.
March 20th, 2007 at 12:32 pmPlease post the evidence that global warming is due solely to anthropogenic causes, as opposed to those occurring in natural environments without human influences.
Comment by Jake
NO, you back up your statements with verifiable proof before insisting that we answer your questions…….
We are waiting…..
March 20th, 2007 at 12:32 pmJake is an idiot and doesn’t get it.
This is about the White House censoring scientific data and reports, to make them support their predetermined idea that global warming is not happening.
This is a scandal in itself. Whether or not global warming is caused by man, this scandal is still here.
It figures Jake would attempt to spin this. Typical Repuke liar.
March 20th, 2007 at 12:33 pmJake, don’t ask for evidence about AGW. It is a jerk thing to do. Anyone can get the latest IPCC report for an authoritative summary of the current science. Everyone knows it. So just STFU about the evidence.
March 20th, 2007 at 12:34 pmJake sez:
Straw man. No one is claiming that global warming is due solely to anthropogenic causes.
March 20th, 2007 at 12:35 pmEducate yourself.
Jake, the AGW issue you are trying to fight is a loser’s play. Give up and move on.
March 20th, 2007 at 12:36 pmGood. We need to keep religion and government seperate.
Comment by Patrick1
Good. Now you will support homosexual marriage and homosexuals serving openly in the military.
Even the Pope supports the “Just War†doctrine, based on the Bible, too.
Comment by Jake
And the Pope called the war on Iraq unjust.
March 20th, 2007 at 12:36 pmrocks911:
I’m 75 — you do the math.
wayne and VerbalKint:
Does hundreds of thousands of dead Khurds count as “evidence”?
DM:
I’m fine with ANY evidence, but remember it has to rule out any non-anthropogenic causes.
RUCerious:
More like “Pogroms Against Conservatives” right?
Tom3:
I’m staying right here, thank you very much.
March 20th, 2007 at 12:37 pmThis is truly Bush’s largest failure without a doubt. Climate change is the largest problem facing the world today. To back away from doing anything about it endangers all of us and severely cripples our ability to demand China, Russia, and India change. It is time we get in this game. We need to call for a 30% reduction at a minimum because the EU has already said they would join us. Furthermore, this type of policy would allow us to go after the biggest polluters based on Greenhouse gas intensity studies. Currently, China, Russia, and India produce 25% of all greenhouse gas’ and only 7% of global GDP. What is worse is the fact they are scheduled to increase emissions by over 600% by 2025. This type of increase will destroy the world. Even if the EU and the USA do in fact reduce our emissions by the stated 30% the world would still be doomed as those 3 countries would be producing more emissions then the rest of the world’s combined reduction. Currently, our hands are tied because of Bush’s failure to see the danger. I truly hope this administration at least starts the steps towards reducing the USA’s emissions. The next president must get to work on this problem ASAP if we want to stand any chance of influencing China to not only stop their planned massive increase in emissions but also start to reduce their emissions. We are very close to the tipping point right now.
I congradulate the Dems for forming the first panel to look into climate change. I just wish they had more power and influence to change current US policy. For all the little problems we aruge about, they are all peanuts compaired to this one. Personally, I feel the USA federal government should make this priority #1. We should shift much of the federal budget towards fixing this problem. We should also start focus most of the congress time towards this problem as Bush clearly isn’t focused on it. The only way to get our government serious about this problem is you. The Dems are our only hope but we need to get them to stop treating it with kiddie gloves.
They need to stop the stupid forums where they attempt to discredit the disbelievers. It is past that. They should look over the, forget them, and get to work on a solution. Furthermore, we need to get them to realize the severity of the problem. They are way to hung up worrying about a slightly more efficient light bulb or gaininy 1 more mile per gallon. While those micro details could be important, they are a waste of time when we don’t address the biggest polluters. Farming is actually the single largest polluter in the USA when it comes to emissions and we do nothing on that front. Furthermore, we are concerned with micro details while places like China build on average 1 more coal plant every 3 days and are planning to add over 300 million new cars within 10 years. All our effects could be in vein if we fail to get them to work with us for change.
March 20th, 2007 at 12:37 pmJake, this is not about global warming. It’s not about the Pope or the bible. This is about proof that the Downing Street Memo was correct — the Bush administratin was “fixing facts around the policy.” In other words, the Bush administration was manipulating and distorting data to build a case to invade Iraq. This, if true, is an impeachable offense. How do I know that? Simple. I’ve read the articles of impeachment which caused Nixon to resign rather than face them.
One of these days, Jake, you may be able to make a pilgrimage to Uruguay to visit GW Bush at his ranch where he will be living under the protection of the government of Uruguay and kept safe from the demands that he stand in the docket at the World Court facing a war crimes trial. I’m sure it will be an inspirational experience for you to make the pilgrimage.
March 20th, 2007 at 12:38 pmSorry, I’m a lurker. Disgusted lurker. You go guys! Still laughing over the Delay blog response! This is your time! Go! Lead! Great Stuff! GO!
March 20th, 2007 at 12:40 pmJake,
That would explain it.
March 20th, 2007 at 12:40 pmDon’t you have something better to do like take the great great grand kids for a walk, or go play shuffleboard, or take a nap?
Jake sez:
Hey, look. The straw man’s back.
Jake, please refer to this post for the latest reason you’re wrong.
March 20th, 2007 at 12:42 pmThere is no “duty” of an advocate for one side of the debate to present your side’s evidence as well. What exactly did Bush do wrong here again?
March 20th, 2007 at 12:42 pmI’m fine with ANY evidence, but remember it has to rule out any non-anthropogenic causes.
Comment by Jake — March 20, 2007 @ 12:37 pm
Non-anthropogenic causes, e.g. solar variability, are covered in depth by the publicly available scientific research. Educate yourself, dimwit.
March 20th, 2007 at 12:43 pmThese right wing trolls remind me of the children who ride the short bus to school. We humor them by treating them like they are somehow as normal as the rest of us, all the while secretly hoping to see them bash their head against the wall when they get mad.
March 20th, 2007 at 12:43 pmrocks911:
Thanks for your concern. Let mw know when you want to discuss the topic.
TMM:
Actually, several people claimed a lot of truthiness to the staement already — most of the leftist sheeple think it is solely man-made as well.
March 20th, 2007 at 12:45 pmJake has locked onto a new angle about AGW: a false dichotomy that if GW isn’t all A, then there must be no A.
Where are the critical thinking skills?
March 20th, 2007 at 12:47 pmthey also fixed the fiction round KSM
March 20th, 2007 at 12:47 pmOh, golly gee. If I wasn’t already spitting mad and furious, I might find myself a little disgruntled by this revelation. I would like to keep hammering away with the findings and make even the most stupid and sheep-like Americans to wake the f* up from thier content little slumber.
March 20th, 2007 at 12:48 pm— most of the leftist sheeple think it is solely man-made as well.
Comment by Jake — March 20, 2007 @ 12:45 pm
There he is again with that word solely. He has used some variation of this false dichotomy at least four times now. Jake doesn’t have the rhetorical skills or intellectual discipline to mount this argument on his own. He must have attended a training session this morning. Good work, Jake! Attaboy!
March 20th, 2007 at 12:50 pm#30 Given that the scientific consensus is you’re completely wrong, how about you make the effort to go out on a limb and prove that it’s caused by solely non-anthropogenic sources. Please do it in a way that is sufficient to counter the entire global scientific establishment, and we will crown you the basement-dwelling emperor of earth sciences.
March 20th, 2007 at 12:50 pmJake,
Oh, so a discussion was what you wanted… yeah right old man. Nonsense is all you spout, there’s no room for discussion.
March 20th, 2007 at 12:50 pmWhere are the critical thinking skills?
Comment by VerbalKint
In the political emergency room, in critical condition, along with the whole Bush administration.
March 20th, 2007 at 12:50 pmIt’s simply called “obstruction of justice, truth, and scientific facts to advance a policy which was hatched by our corporate-owned administration” (i.e. fascism). Nothing new here. George Orwell’s fictional account is the genesis of the neocon’s supposed “new america”.
We’ve now connected significant dots between The Downing Street Memo (another impeachable offense pointing directly at Bush) where the facts were fixed around the fiction and now we have prima facie evidence of precisely the same Modus operandi in fixing of the scientific facts around global warming to fit the president’s agenda of “denial”. How treacherous are these days? How filty corrupt is this government? Sadly, each day reveals new injustices, new fraud, new deceit, new corruption. The longer this dog ‘n pony show continues to out this presidency, the greater the damage Bush is doing to his party. From what we’ve seen of Bush’s character or, more poignantly, lack thereof, it’s safe to say that he doesn’t give a crap for the GOP either…..or Gonzales….or Rove. He’ll throw them all under the bus in order to save his own sorry hide.
March 20th, 2007 at 12:52 pm“There is no “duty†of an advocate for one side of the debate to present your side’s evidence as well. What exactly did Bush do wrong here again?
Comment by Jake — March 20, 2007 @ 12:42 pm”
He took DATA from SCEINTISTS and changed them by a person who is NOT a sceintist to present the data as they wanted it.
That is almost the same as a police officer modifying a EMT report because the EMT stated the cop was standing over the victim with the gun billowing smoke out the gun when they came to the scene.
Maybe one day your Republican mind can wrap it’s self around TRUTH and FACTS……. I doubt it though!
March 20th, 2007 at 12:53 pmOur resident God-Troll is at it again….how’d we get blessed with such an idiot on our threads?
March 20th, 2007 at 12:53 pmPlease do it in a way that is sufficient to counter the entire global scientific establishment, and we will crown you the basement-dwelling emperor of earth sciences.
Comment by DM — March 20, 2007 @ 12:50 pm
ROTFLMAO
March 20th, 2007 at 12:53 pmSimple trolls present simple-minded hypotheses and our jackoff troll remains true to his reputation. Oversimplification is his game; jackoff is his name.
March 20th, 2007 at 12:54 pmJake sez:
Joy. Shakey Jake follows up his ridiculous straw man with a variation on the ’some people say’ tactic popularized on Fox Noise.
Jake, I’m not going to be drawn into defending a specious argument of your own malicious design. Sorry if that ruins your day.
Discuss the actual issue, or leave. Your choice.
March 20th, 2007 at 12:54 pmIgnore the slime and he’ll slink away to his crusty cell again.
March 20th, 2007 at 12:55 pmIt’s a definite affinity: Jackoff and Fuch Snooze.
March 20th, 2007 at 12:56 pmDiscuss the actual issue, or leave. Your choice.
Comment by TripMaster Monkey — March 20, 2007 @ 12:54 pm
I already entered Jake’s obligatory two-wrongs-make-a-right comment for him on the Think Fast thread this morning, so I see no reason for him to stay.
March 20th, 2007 at 12:59 pmSomething tells me that Bill Clinton made him do it. Any bets??
March 20th, 2007 at 12:59 pmI remember how some people used to feel about home computers. They were afraid of being “left behind” if they didn’t jump on the technology. Maybe the neo-fascist, right-wankers feel that way too, with regard to a renewed liberal shift in the government. Well, maybe we can put thier minds to rest on this one and offer a little emotional support. -heh- You won’t be left behind- you’ll be buried.
March 20th, 2007 at 1:00 pmSince liberalism doesn’t work and a prior hero of the left said they would bury us 45 years ago, not real worried.
March 20th, 2007 at 1:03 pmwayne and VerbalKint:
Does hundreds of thousands of dead Khurds count as “evidence�
— Jacko
No, verify and post your proof
March 20th, 2007 at 1:05 pmWe cannot accept answers you pull out of your a$$
Are you talking about the new Nazi Pope?
Because………..
Pope takes issue with America’s ‘just war’
February 10, 2003
Wrong again Jakey boy. You can’t just make up sh!t and expect us to believe it. Especially when we have been paying attention this whole time.
March 20th, 2007 at 1:07 pmAll fascists eventually bury themselves through arrogance, we don’t need to do it.
March 20th, 2007 at 1:12 pmEven the Nazi Pope came out against Saddam’s execution.
March 20th, 2007 at 1:12 pmWow…Shakey Jake’s taking a beating on this thread. ^_^
Who ever said being a neocon shill was easy?
March 20th, 2007 at 1:14 pm#58- We’re a lot smarter now, after this latest mess your heroic, alpha dog created. We will bury you and your doctrine of hate and bigotry. Eventually after a few flushings, all turds down down the toilet.
March 20th, 2007 at 1:15 pmThe Repukes censored scientific reports to push their agenda.
The Repuke trolls in here think that is okay.
Repukes are evil criminal scumbags and their trolls prove that in here.
March 20th, 2007 at 1:21 pmI think Chimpy is going to get us ALL buried.
The entire population of the world.
March 20th, 2007 at 1:21 pmAt the risk of feeding a troll, Jake is technically correct when he says “There was more evidence that Saddam had WMD than there is that humans are the sole cause of global warming.” He’s disingenuous, but correct. The key word that Jake convenientky inserts here is “the SOLE cause of global warming”.
No responsible scientist claims that man is the SOLE cause of global warming. There are a number of factors involved, most of them natural. But the scientific community agrees that man has a significant, perhaps THE MOST significant impact on observed climate change over the last 150 years. Evidence supports this.
So for Jake to demand proof that man is the SOLE cause of global warming, well, he’s either being sneaky (by changing the terms of the debate to suit his own purposes) or he’s confused. I’ll let you folks make that call.
March 20th, 2007 at 1:21 pmPoor Jake. He doesn’t even know the Pope doesn’t agree with him on this illegal war. What the hell else don’t you know, Jake?
March 20th, 2007 at 1:26 pmLiberal trolls know there’s no such thing is global warning …it’s a conspiracy to get the druid and hippy votes …nothing more - same group that tries to redefine marriage. George Bush is an honest Christain man who’s a GOD-fearing man - he lives the WORD OF GOD. Jesus has made sure that Bush would only put godly Chrstian MEN in positions to protect our culture of LIFE!
March 20th, 2007 at 1:30 pm#67- No one save Jake said “sole”. It has been said that man-made pollution is a “contributing” factor. Manipulation of semantics is another Repub talent.
March 20th, 2007 at 1:33 pmKRank sez:
And once again, it comes down to poisonous disingenuousness vs. terminal stupidity. Funny, how all of Shakey Jake’s arguments can be shaken down to this central question… ^_^
March 20th, 2007 at 1:35 pm“Liberal trolls know there’s no such thing is global warning …it’s a conspiracy to get the druid and hippy votes …nothing more - same group that tries to redefine marriage. George Bush is an honest Christain man who’s a GOD-fearing man - he lives the WORD OF GOD. Jesus has made sure that Bush would only put godly Chrstian MEN in positions to protect our culture of LIFE!
Comment by Jamie Kinstle Wapakoneta OH — March 20, 2007 @ 1:30 pm”
I hope to god that this is sarcasm?
March 20th, 2007 at 1:36 pmAgain, I personally think it is a waste of time even aruging with those that don’t believe in Global Warming or that it is caused by man. Screw them and move on. It is time we start identifying solutions and it is time we start actually putting them to use. Don’t you realize that these folks only goal is in fact to keep the “debate” going? Every day and everytime our congress has a debate is one more chance lost for them to discuss what needs to be done to fix this problem. Take the kiddie gloves off already. Stop dragging your feet and feeding the deniers. We really need to get serious or we need to forget about the problem and simple be doomed.
Are we going to keep debating it for the next 10-15 years? Are we going to wait until every single person agrees and then realize it is to late? If the science community is correct, we need to act right now. Some already feel it is to late and most think we have 1-2 years max before it is to late. With all that said, why again are we not stepping up in a big way? Do you honestly think simply driving your Prius will solve this massive problem? In reality, current electric cars, especially the Prius, are more energy inefficient then even a Hummer.
We drive these cars because they make us feel like we are making a difference when in fact we are simply speeding up Global Warming. The Toyota Prius has become the flagship car for those in our society so environmentally conscious that they are willing to spend a premium to show the world how much they care. Unfortunately for them, their ultimate ‘green car’ is the source of some of the worst pollution in North America; it takes more combined energy per Prius to produce than a Hummer.
Before we delve into the seedy underworld of hybrids, you must first understand how a hybrid works. For this, we will use the most popular hybrid on the market, the Toyota Prius.
The Prius is powered by not one, but two engines: a standard 76 horsepower, 1.5-liter gas engine found in most cars today and a battery- powered engine that deals out 67 horsepower and a whooping 295ft/lbs of torque, below 2000 revolutions per minute. Essentially, the Toyota Synergy Drive system, as it is so called, propels the car from a dead stop to up to 30mph. This is where the largest percent of gas is consumed. As any physics major can tell you, it takes more energy to get an object moving than to keep it moving. The battery is recharged through the braking system, as well as when the gasoline engine takes over anywhere north of 30mph. It seems like a great energy efficient and environmentally sound car, right?
You would be right if you went by the old government EPA estimates, which netted the Prius an incredible 60 miles per gallon in the city and 51 miles per gallon on the highway. Unfortunately for Toyota, the government realized how unrealistic their EPA tests were, which consisted of highway speeds limited to 55mph and acceleration of only 3.3 mph per second. The new tests which affect all 2008 models give a much more realistic rating with highway speeds of 80mph and acceleration of 8mph per second. This has dropped the Prius’s EPA down by 25 percent to an average of 45mpg. This now puts the Toyota within spitting distance of cars like the Chevy Aveo, which costs less then half what the Prius costs.
However, if that was the only issue with the Prius, I wouldn’t be writing this article. It gets much worse.
Building a Toyota Prius causes more environmental damage than a Hummer that is on the road for three times longer than a Prius. As already noted, the Prius is partly driven by a battery which contains nickel. The nickel is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the ‘dead zone’ around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the plant is devoid of any life for miles.
The plant is the source of all the nickel found in a Prius’ battery and Toyota purchases 1,000 tons annually. Dubbed the Superstack, the plague-factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario, becoming every environmentalist’s nightmare.
“The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the soil slid down off the hillside,†said Canadian Greenpeace energy-coordinator David Martin during an interview with Mail, a British-based newspaper.
All of this would be bad enough in and of itself; however, the journey to make a hybrid doesn’t end there. The nickel produced by this disastrous plant is shipped via massive container ship to the largest nickel refinery in Europe. From there, the nickel hops over to China to produce ‘nickel foam.’ From there, it goes to Japan. Finally, the completed batteries are shipped to the United States, finalizing the around-the-world trip required to produce a single Prius battery. Are these not sounding less and less like environmentally sound cars and more like a farce?
Wait, I haven’t even got to the best part yet.
When you pool together all the combined energy it takes to drive and build a Toyota Prius, the flagship car of energy fanatics, it takes almost 50 percent more energy than a Hummer - the Prius’s arch nemesis.
Through a study by CNW Marketing called “Dust to Dust,†the total combined energy is taken from all the electrical, fuel, transportation, materials (metal, plastic, etc) and hundreds of other factors over the expected lifetime of a vehicle. The Prius costs an average of $3.25 per mile driven over a lifetime of 100,000 miles - the expected lifespan of the Hybrid.
The Hummer, on the other hand, costs a more fiscal $1.95 per mile to put on the road over an expected lifetime of 300,000 miles. That means the Hummer will last three times longer than a Prius and use less combined energy doing it.
So, if you are really an environmentalist - ditch the Prius. Instead, buy one of the most economical cars available - a Toyota Scion xB. The Scion only costs a paltry $0.48 per mile to put on the road. If you are still obsessed over gas mileage - buy a Chevy Aveo and fix that lead foot.
One last fun fact for you: it takes five years to offset the premium price of a Prius. Meaning, you have to wait 60 months to save any money over a non-hybrid car because of lower gas expenses.
My point is we need to get serious. We need to stop doing these fake things that don’t actualy work. I am certainly not suggesting driving a Hummer. They are very bad too. What I am suggesting is we need to work together as a Global community. Reducing emission in the USA without the world behind us simply shifts emissions to another country. If we can’t get China, Russia, and India to not only stop their increases but also reduce their emissions, all our potential efforts are worthless. We need to think much bigger. This is the worst problem today.
I understand you enjoy the casual “get Bush” game and feel free to do that on the side. What I think your missing is the fact that Bush’s largest failure by a mile is his inaction on Global Warming. It is time you start utilizing some of that Hate to go after him on an important issue.
March 20th, 2007 at 1:37 pmJesus has made sure that Bush would only put godly Chrstian MEN in positions to protect our culture of LIFE!
Comment by Jamie Kinstle Sixpakonthecounter OH —
And then He changed His mind, and gave democrats control of the House and Senate. Don’t you wish He was a little less flighty?
March 20th, 2007 at 1:42 pmGeorge Bush is an honest Christain man who’s a GOD-fearing man - he lives the WORD OF GOD. by Jamie Kinstle Wapakoneta OH
Now THERE is a statement that no one but the NeoCon Kool-aid drinkers could ever believe. Bushco may be oone of the least Christian person on this earth.
I just got my best laugh of the week. Thank you Jamie of the 29%ers!!!
March 20th, 2007 at 1:45 pm#69 Jamie Kinstle Wapakoneta OH (waited for that comment number, didja?):
Liberal trolls know there’s no such thing is global warning …it’s a conspiracy to get the druid and hippy votes …nothing more - same group that tries to redefine marriage. George Bush is an honest Christain man who’s a GOD-fearing man - he lives the WORD OF GOD. Jesus has made sure that Bush would only put godly Chrstian MEN in positions to protect our culture of LIFE!
Jesus’ General agrees with ya, Jamie! Bookmark it for the latest news from godly Chrstian [sic] MEN….
Cheers,
March 20th, 2007 at 1:45 pmGeorge Bush is an honest Christain man
— Comment by Jamie Kinstle Wapakoneta OH
What kind of drugs are you taking that make you so delusional?
March 20th, 2007 at 1:46 pmWhat I am suggesting is we need to work together as a Global community. Reducing emission in the USA without the world behind us simply shifts emissions to another country.
All well and good; can we get those pesky multinational oil companies on board? Exxon/Mobile’ gas production alone creates more pollution than most counties. It’s a huge polluter, and that’s without any oil spills.
March 20th, 2007 at 1:48 pmWhat I think your missing is the fact that Bush’s largest failure by a mile is his inaction on Global Warming. It is time you start utilizing some of that Hate to go after him on an important issue.
Comment by Roger_Roger
RR, You are close to being right. It is GW and Iraq. But we are fighting Big Oil on one side and the NeoCons on the other, so we have very large bogeys to overcome. But we will prevail!!!
March 20th, 2007 at 1:48 pmRoger that was actually informative. Good post on the Prius.
March 20th, 2007 at 1:49 pman honest Christain man
Freudian slip? Bush certainly has done a great deal to stain the reputation of Christianity.
March 20th, 2007 at 1:50 pmThe Goracle will kill you before the CO2 does.
March 20th, 2007 at 1:51 pmThis is one of the most egregious acts of the Bush administration: distorting science in the name of policy. If you don’t like the results of research, rewrite them and suppress any attempts by the researchers to correct the distortions. “Don’t mention the polar bears!”
Pope Paul V would have been proud.
March 20th, 2007 at 1:52 pmSeems like it’s fine for Al Bore to “fix” his facts (or distortions to be more accurate) in his schlockumentary but not OK for Chimpy to “fix” his.
The problem is that neither is dealing with facts because there are no real facts around the impact of global warming — only predictions. The crucial test is actual prediction, in which a model is run today to forecast the climate for some future time-period, and then is subsequently validated or falsified. No global climate model has ever demonstrated that it can reliably predict the climate over multiple years or decades—never.
March 20th, 2007 at 1:52 pmHere are some more fixed facts for the moonbats.
Gore helped found Generation Investment Management, through which he and others pay for offsets. The firm invests the money in solar, wind and other projects that reduce energy consumption around the globe…
March 20th, 2007 at 1:52 pmIt’s a TP World
It’s a world of spinlessness
A world of lies and deceit
It’s a world of no hope
And a world of disinformation
There’s so much that’s laughable
It’s time we’re scared
It’s a TP world after all.
There is just one Blog
And he’s KOS’s son
And his smile gleams
Different stuff to the chosen ones
Truth is what they destroy
And the people they crush
It’s a TP world after all.
by FlacoPoet
March 20th, 2007 at 1:57 pmRoger that was actually informative. Good post on the Prius.
Comment by ForTruth
It would have been even better if it wasn’t plagiarized. Nice work Roger_roger, but next time give the actual author credit.
Not roger_roger’s writing
March 20th, 2007 at 1:59 pmgummitch sez:
Heh…good eye, gummitch. Roger Rhetoric tried to pull a rachel on us,and you nailed him. ^_^
March 20th, 2007 at 2:02 pm#73 Roger_Roger:
Say, where’d you crib this crapola from?
Essentially, the Toyota Synergy Drive system, as it is so called, propels the car from a dead stop to up to 30mph. This is where the largest percent of gas is consumed….
E = mv*2, to begin with. car travelling at 60mph has four times the kinetic energy as one travelling 30mph. Do the math.
It is true that for city driving, more energy goes into acceleration (increasing kinetic energy) than in compensating for the dissipation of energy through air resistance and friction, which is the major drain of energy at constant highway speeds. This is why the Prius does better at city driving compared to conventional cars.
… As any physics major can tell you, it takes more energy to get an object moving than to keep it moving….
False (at least under certain circumstances). Roger_Roger is not a physics major, I can see.
… The battery is recharged through the braking system, as well as when the gasoline engine takes over anywhere north of 30mph. It seems like a great energy efficient and environmentally sound car, right?
You would be right if you went by the old government EPA estimates, which netted the Prius an incredible 60 miles per gallon in the city and 51 miles per gallon on the highway. Unfortunately for Toyota, the government realized how unrealistic their EPA tests were, which consisted of highway speeds limited to 55mph and acceleration of only 3.3 mph per second. The new tests which affect all 2008 models give a much more realistic rating with highway speeds of 80mph and acceleration of 8mph per second. This has dropped the Prius’s EPA down by 25 percent to an average of 45mpg. This now puts the Toyota within spitting distance of cars like the Chevy Aveo, which costs less then half what the Prius costs.
Bit of an unfair comparison. Toyotas cost more than Chevy Chitboxes to begin with.
FWIW, while the new EPA numbers do reflect the lead-foot habits of the average driver, I’ve found that my RX400h gets close to the (old) advertised mileage when I drive it (but not my more lead-footed sweetie). But I do use slow acceleration so the electrics can do more of the work, and anticipate stops and slow gradually so that more energy goes to the regenerative braking and less into the friction disks.
IOW, Roger_Roger is just spouting nonsense and propaganda here.
Cheers,
March 20th, 2007 at 2:09 pmYeah, that was a long post even for Roger Roger.
Come on, can you see that he and Jake just came here and with one tiny comment disrupt the whole blogging? Now, Flaco is just an idiot, we all knew that.
March 20th, 2007 at 2:11 pmNazis and Stalinists the bunch.
March 20th, 2007 at 2:12 pmEmploy the experts to research and write… then put words in their mouths.
What a meaningless cabal this administration is.
Totally defunct. devoid.
Robber barons beyond comprehension.
The American people need to go to court with the bunch. We need restitution. They need jail.
#79 Fighting Big Oil directly is a lost cause. We need to limit consumption of Oil by using alternatives. Alternatives are something we truly need to jump on right now. We need to figure out the very best ones and start TODAY. We cannot stop producing gas and pumping Oil without an alternative ready that moment to take its place as you would effectively shut the world down, people would riot, etc. What I am trying to point out if that without the world working together, they world would be simply “shifting” emissions from one country to another. If we alone limit Big Oil in the USA and limit gas production, they would simply move somewhere else and the emissions would continue. Actually, they may get worse as other countries don’t always have the regulations and safety measures in place like the USA. This is why we need to first identify an alterative. We then need to get it ready to be used in mass WORLD WIDE. With that in place, Oil will die on it’s own.
In fact, Oil constitutes only 42% of emissions in the USA and we always forget that Coal counts for 40%. Places like China add on average 1 more Coal plant every 2-3 days. We need alternatives for both if we want to suceed. In the end, the USA in my opinion needs to set a reduction closer to the 50% mark. Furthermore, we need to DEMAND China, India, and Russia at least commit to a greenhouse gas intensity equal to the USA’ current standard at a minimum. They currently produce around 0.5 GDP per 1 emission which makes them the worst polluters. They need to get inline and shoot for a range of 2 GDP per emissions. The USA and the EU should work towards a 3.5 GDP per emission standard OR BETTER.
If China, Russia, and India refuse to work with the rest of the world we should instal heavy fines on all exported goods. We should make their products the most expensive in the world and use that money to protect more rainforest and research more efficiencies and more alternatives. We need to start now in a very big way. We need to stop playing nice and demand the world as a whole, join us.
March 20th, 2007 at 2:14 pm#73 Roger_Roger:
The Prius costs an average of $3.25 per mile driven over a lifetime of 100,000 miles - the expected lifespan of the Hybrid.
The Hummer, on the other hand, costs a more fiscal $1.95 per mile to put on the road over an expected lifetime of 300,000 miles. That means the Hummer will last three times longer than a Prius and use less combined energy doing it.
Ummm, nope. Grade school students will be able to tell you that 3.25 * 100,000 is less than 1.95 * 300,000 (assuming arguendo that even these numbers are right.
And why we should think that those pieces’o'crap Hummers are going to last 300,000 miles (while the Toyota, known for longevity, will not)?
Cheers,
March 20th, 2007 at 2:15 pm#89 I apoligize for not including the quotes. I do agree with everything in that article and everything I wrote. This problem is very big. Please don’t attempt to belittle the arguement. You need to either get on board or we need to ignore you, move on, and attempt to fix our planet. This isn’t a USA problem, this is a world problem. GLobal warming doesn’t care if it get’s it emissions from the USA or a third world nothing country. Warming will happen regardless. I have personally wrote all my congressmen and women from Minnesota demanding they stop talking and start working on solutions today. I also wrote Bush (4 times now) demanding that he put his own personal views aside and start working to fix this problem. Even if you don’t believe in Global warming, why take the chance? If we are all wrong about Global Warming, THAT WOULD BE A GOOD THING. Why take the chance.
March 20th, 2007 at 2:18 pmAha Juan C the masturbator and killer of sperm is back.
March 20th, 2007 at 2:18 pmGlobaloney and GlobalarmismComment posted on
March 20th, 2007 at 2:20 pmJuan C the masturbator and killer of sperm is back.
Comment by Flaco
You must have known me in high school…well… ;)
March 20th, 2007 at 2:26 pmCheers. Make another poem, Flaco.
You just havent scene teh light - only by accepting Jesus as your savior will you see the true word of God. Jesus wants Bush to create this Christain nation just as Jefferson wrote in the Bill of Rights! Bush would never lie -he talks to God! Thats why the arabs dont like him.
March 20th, 2007 at 2:32 pmYeah, fake another poem Maco.
March 20th, 2007 at 2:34 pmThats a good poem Flaco
March 20th, 2007 at 2:40 pmThat is also why we think he and you are both loony.
Talking TO God doesn’t mean he answers back. You talk TO God to make excuses for attacking people of other religions who talk TO their God, which just happens to be the same God.
March 20th, 2007 at 2:54 pm#94 Roger_Roger:
#89 I apoligize for not including the quotes. I do agree with everything in that article and everything I wrote….
Even though I showed it to be a pile’o'ignerrent’crap?
And “apologize”.
Cheers,
March 20th, 2007 at 2:58 pm#102 So you are someone attempting to infringe the efforts of those of us trying to save this planet Arne? May I ask why?
March 20th, 2007 at 3:01 pmToo bad our senate isn’t…
…Roman…
March 20th, 2007 at 3:14 pmNot knowing the difference between “fixed around” and “fixed for”: priceless.
March 20th, 2007 at 3:14 pm#103 Roger_Roger:
#102 So you are someone attempting to infringe the efforts of those of us trying to save this planet Arne? May I ask why?
You might first ask if I am “someone attempting to infringe the efforts of those of us trying to save this planet” (whatever the hell that means.
What I am trying to do is challenge and refute nonsense being spread. If you “agree with everything in that article”, you’re just showing that you aren’t capable of knowledgeable discussion. The errors I pointed out are fundamental and basic. To then take this pile of stinking Shinola and use it to argue that Hummers are more eco-friendly than Priuses is just ignerrent.
If you have a better, more realistic and factual, argument to make in support of this dubious proposition, out with it. But seeing as you cribbed the original (and without attribution), I’d guess not.
Cheers,
March 20th, 2007 at 3:26 pm#106 Come come. I was posting that article because it was an interesting read. It was also relevant because it shows that many of us “think” we are saving the planet when in fact our efforts are fairly meaningless in the grand scheme of things. I certainly realize the Hummer is a very bad choice for our environment. I am attempting to get people to think more Global instead of regional as currently many Americans are to wrapped in our effort while not caring about others.
March 20th, 2007 at 3:39 pm[…] “My objective was to align these communications with the administration’s stated policy.” […]
March 20th, 2007 at 3:46 pm#107 Roger_Roger does the tapdance:
I was posting that article because it was an interesting read.
Horsefeathers. Here’s what you said, you dissembling sack’o’shite: “I do agree with everything in that article…” If you do, you’re a fool, and someone needs to point that out.
It was also relevant because it shows that many of us “think†we are saving the planet when in fact our efforts are fairly meaningless in the grand scheme of things.
How can it show any such thing when it was chock-full of egregious errors of fact and questionable numbers?
Cheers,
March 20th, 2007 at 3:58 pmDems are on a fools errand trying to protect the planet. God said it would be destroyed as morality fails. If you’d stop trying to force gays to marry in God’s country then things would be a lot different.
March 20th, 2007 at 4:06 pmI think it is sad that posts about Schumer’s political show trial get more interest then a real problem like Global warming. It proves that the left is almost as bad as the right. The right simply deny this problem which is bad. The left in many ways are worse. They currently only use it for political gain. The fact that they show little interest in it otherwise proves they don’t honestly care that much about it. I don’t see anyone in Congress nor any of the base (at least on this site) actually step up and demand change. Why is it you come to post about global warming only looking for a fight? Why is it that congress only uses it to set up a commitee so they get a little headline in the paper? Do these political show trials really take this much of their time that they truly have no time to look into saving the world?
Do they honestly believe that Global warming is a big problem? They treat it like a nominal problem that can be handled tommorrow. They put all this effort into shredding Bush for purging some attorney’s in a dirty way while legal, yet find no time to work for change on the most important issue of all. It is sad and proves we are doomed. Man I wish someone would go to washington and actually work to fix problems instead of only work to gain more power.
March 20th, 2007 at 5:12 pmRoger_roger, don’t you get tired of looking like an ignorant fool every time you post?
Why don’t you pull your head out of your *ss for a change, grandpa? And realize that you’ve become a big file of stinking sh*t from head to toe?
March 20th, 2007 at 5:26 pmJamie Kinstle, don’t you know that:
You can’t run a country on a book of religion.
March 20th, 2007 at 6:01 pmNot by a lump or a smudge or a smidgon
Of foolish rules of ancient date,
Designed to make you all feel great,
While you bend, fold and mutilate
Those unbelievers from the neighboring state.
Roger, it’s ok. Really. Your bitter tears are a sad spectacle, but you’ll survive. Besides, it could get worse. Repubs have 21 Senators up for reelect next year and Dems have 8.
March 20th, 2007 at 6:03 pm#114 I have zero problem with the Repugs losing all their seats. They have proven to be completely worthless. They increased government in a large way and have rubber stamped more pork then I thought possible. I am more then happy to give the Dems a shot at it. I just hope the Dems will realize soon that they are the leaders of this country. I think they are still in the opposition mindset which they need to shake. I also hope they start addressing the important issues like Global Warming soon. I’ll give them a few more months before I start to pass some judgement. I understand that anytime a new party takes power, they need to have a bunch of political show trials to make their base happy. Once all that junk is over, I can only hope they will govern much better then the repugs. When the Dems are in power, I look for other things then when the repugs are in power.
I fully understand tax cuts and help for business won’t happen. What I am looking for is to see if they can fix or end Social Security, fix or end mediaid, help our schools as they are a failure currently, help the Iraqis work towards freedom and Democracy, stop all the pork spending like they promised, stop all illegal aliens by getting tough on business and any illegal alien coming here, and removing all current illegal aliens. If they could accomplish even 1/2 of this list I would be very happy.
March 20th, 2007 at 6:10 pmRoger_Roger, global warming is officially a cult. Not that there aren’t some good ideas in there for cleaning up air quality and eliminating the use of fossil fuels. But you can see how insane the followers here are. They’ve gone off the deep end.
The only real solution to stop burning fossil fuels in 2007 is nuclear energy. Which is the conclusion of scientists in France, China, India, England, Australia, Russia. Actually, even here in the US. But the cultists here oppose nuclear energy.
So the people who want to “do something” about global warming are the same people who continue to cause it!
March 20th, 2007 at 6:16 pm#110 Jamie,
I do find your dogmatic and ‘Doomsday’ approach to life very entertaining but also quite frightful. (Thankfully you are in the minority in this country). By trying to force YOUR morality on other people is why this country was founded in the first place…. for religious and social freedom.
What do you want to do, take us back to being a Fundamentalist society like our forefathers left behind in England?
Seems you have been listening to too much Falwell, Robertson, Dobson and Haggarty. But it did make for a fun read.
March 20th, 2007 at 6:18 pmThe only real solution to stop burning fossil fuels in 2007 is nuclear energy.
Comment by muckdog
Yeah. We can drive cars with little fission reactors. Right.
March 20th, 2007 at 6:32 pm[…] reports that yesterday’s House Oversight and Government Reform Committee’s hearing into Philip Cooney’s editing of global warming reports revealed that Cheney’s office also played a role. Kevin […]
March 20th, 2007 at 8:34 pmWhy should I be surprised?
March 20th, 2007 at 9:39 pmPhilip COON-ey, YOU IS A “GONE COON*”!!!!!
“Gone Coon”–A person in a hopeless situation, one who is doomed, a “dead duck”–AIN’T IT THE TRUTH!!!!!
March 20th, 2007 at 10:57 pmTo all the IQ temperature IQ trolls; this just in from Captain Obvious:
The fact that the White House saw it necessary to edit government reports to play down the anthropogenic nature of the current climate change, should give you an indication that they fully realize the relation between human activity and global warming is a reality.
If there were no relation, the reports wouldn’t have stated as much, and there would be nothing to “align” with the White House’s “stated policy”.
Duh.
March 21st, 2007 at 12:33 amOops! Typo -the first line in my post should read:
“To all the room temperature IQ trolls…”
March 21st, 2007 at 12:35 am#114 I have zero problem with the Repugs losing all their seats. They have proven to be completely worthless. Comment by Roger_Roger — March 20, 2007 @ 6:10 pm
Good, then you have no reason to be here carrying their water, so STFU st*pid old man.
March 21st, 2007 at 2:20 amHa! I love it! Thank you!
You can also watch the EPA Adminstrator get raked over the coals by the budget appropriations committee at appropriations.senate.gov
March 21st, 2007 at 7:18 amI’m confused by the comments. Roger_roger seems to present pro-environment ideas but other “liberal” folk on the board are flaming him. Granted he’s hard-core (which usally means not living in reality), but he makes some good points (especially about China, Russia and India). What gives?
I work for an environmental agency. “Global warming” is a bit of a farce, but “climate change” is very real.
March 21st, 2007 at 7:28 amAll pathological deviants (psycopaths) twist the truth to hide there intent and distract from what their real purpose is. Although the global warming debate has many implications for normal people to survive, those in control might be covering up and preparing for the real danger to survival.
March 21st, 2007 at 1:04 pmI read this last night and think it is worth considering in the context of the changes we’ve seen in the US and globally in terms of personal freedom and controls being put into place.
Forget About Global Warming: We’re One Step From Extinction!