House Iraq Withdrawal Plan Appears Likely To Pass
House Iraq Withdrawal Plan Appears Likely To Pass
NBC’s Mike Viquiera: “Speaker Nancy Pelosi and her allies in the House now appear to have the Democratic votes necessary to pass the measure that requires American combat troops to be out of Iraq by Fall 2008 at the latest.”
UPDATE: Watch video of today’s House debate HERE. MissLaura and Kagro X are following the debate online.
UPDATE II: Atrios writes:
It isn’t perfect, but the choice isn’t between nothing and a pony, it’s been nothing and this. From what I understand Pelosi has called in every chip she has (and thrown some elbows) for the Bill. Whatever its imperfections, it’s better than the realistic alternative. Let’s hope it passes.
UPDATE III: Greg Sargent reports, “Less than 24 hours before the House Dem Iraq supplemental spending bill is set to go to a vote, the key liberal House Dems holding out against the bill have decided to back it, making its passage far more likely.” From the progressives’ statement:
After two grueling weeks of meetings, Progressive members of Congress brought forth an agreement that provided the momentum to pass a supplemental spending bill that, for the first time, establishes a timeline for the withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq.
Congresswomen Barbara Lee (D-CA), Lynn Woolsey (D-CA), Maxine Waters (D-CA) and Diane Watson (D-CA) have led Congressional opposition to the war in Iraq since before it started and have consistently voted against funding for the war as a matter of conscience. Still, they decided that they could not stand in the way of the passage of a bill that would establish a clear timeline for ending the war, especially if the failure of that bill would mean the passage of a supplemental without any restrictions.
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Fall of 2008 is too late. Why do more Americans need to die for Bush’s friend to get richer off of taxpayer money.
Bums.
March 22nd, 2007 at 7:16 pmIs that the best we can do? That means another 18 months of death and destruction. How many more lives is that? How many more billion is that?
March 22nd, 2007 at 7:19 pmDon’t get me wrong, I am happy to see that a deadline may be reached, but I can’t help but feel deep sadness that this is the best we can do.
3230
March 22nd, 2007 at 7:19 pmThats really good news the fact is a quicker withdrawal can be acheived now
March 22nd, 2007 at 7:20 pmThey have the votes for 2/3 majority?
March 22nd, 2007 at 7:20 pmWho has to be the last American soldier to die for Bush’s revenge crusade?
March 22nd, 2007 at 7:20 pmGive the Democrats 60 Senators and the executive branch and things will get done more quickly. Unfortunately, they’re working with a slight majority. Don’t get me wrong, though, I agree that it’s underwhelming.
March 22nd, 2007 at 7:22 pmThank God that Congress never voted to withdraw from WWII.
March 22nd, 2007 at 7:23 pmA quicker withdrawal will be acheived
the problem is and NOTE
Thats combat troops ONLY
next some training Troops will stay behind ……… dont fall for the word COMBAT………. I read this the other day
March 22nd, 2007 at 7:23 pmJake
March 22nd, 2007 at 7:25 pmToo bad your father didn’t withdraw sooner.
COMBAT TROOPS ONLY
dont forget blackwater Bushes republican guards
this means troops can be in Iraq for training purposes like the coalition
The trick is the word COMBAT
March 22nd, 2007 at 7:26 pmNot enough, but way better than what the last two (Republican controlled) congresses did. They are keeping the pressure on – think of your 6 year old saying ‘mom’ over and over and over. (Not comparing Nancy Pelosi to a 6 year old, for all you trolls out there – just a metaphor for keeping the pressure on.)
March 22nd, 2007 at 7:29 pmDoes anyone not on the “Ignore List” want to discuss the thread topic? Why is Pelosi even having this vote if she knows Bush is going to veto any specific date for withdrawal? Is she going to put impeachment “back on the table” just because he vetos her?
March 22nd, 2007 at 7:30 pmIs she going to put impeachment “back on the table†just because he vetos her?
Jake – stop asking rhetorical questions. If you were interested in discourse you would say something reasonably intelligent. Instead you make stupid comments and pretend to be interested in what people think. Why do you even bother?
March 22nd, 2007 at 7:34 pmNow we know who works for the American people and who does what they want. Just keep praying for our soldiers because the republican lip service of SUPPORT OUR TROOPS really mean stay the course and keep dying while Bush keeps money going to the contractors and pay off money to Iraq leaders. Oh yes and Halliburton needs those billions of dollars for the pipe lines their building. Cheney is really busy now as the CEO of Halliburton. Cheney is moving Halliburton out of the US just in time for Americans find out we’ve been robbed Trillions of dollars with the help of the rubber stamp 109th Congress. Two thumbs up Cheney you played the American people for fools and got away with it.
March 22nd, 2007 at 7:35 pmNo need to. The entire country was behind that war. Except for George Bush grandpa Prescott Bush who had funded the Nazi.
March 22nd, 2007 at 7:35 pmPowcat: “Not enough, but way better than what the last two (Republican controlled) congresses did.”
Exactly! Right now, I think meaningful oversite and legislation which puts lawmakers on record as either supporting the President’s policies or not is a step in the right direction. But, I agree with everyone who says withdrawing is going too slowly.
March 22nd, 2007 at 7:36 pmHere is a more likely path for the fall of 2008:
“We’re sorry but we will need to draft all able body Americans and first send them to any one of the 14 Enduring Bases in IRAQ for deployment to the front in IRAN. We believe the IRANIANS million men army will be easy to stop once we get our troop levels up to 3 to 5 million strong!”
March 22nd, 2007 at 7:37 pmAnd for a third time Jake has invoked The List ™ I am seriously starting to think I know who Jake really is.
March 22nd, 2007 at 7:37 pm#2- Marie
Well said. Anti-war activists should not be fooled by this bill which Think Progress seems to think is so worthy of praise. First, the supplemental spending bill allows Bush to decide when U.S. troops should begin- possibly not until Sept. 1, 2008, by which time very possibly over a thousand more Americans will end up in flag draped coffins and thousands nore returning to this country grievously wounded and maimed and crippled.
It does not address the issue of the U.S. attacking Iran.
It allows an unspecified # of troops to remain in Iraq indefinitely.
It would bring spending on this most unnecessary war/occupation to more than $500 billion while the Democrats have made sure that the bill proposed by the Out of Iraq Caucus headed by Barbara Lee and Lynn Woolsey, which proposes a “fully funded, and systematic, withdrawal of U.S. soldiers and military contractors from Iraq” by the end of 2007, will not be debated on the floor of the House. So much for true democracy being allowed to be heard by our less than democratic friends.
March 22nd, 2007 at 7:37 pmLets imagine American troops have left iraq already 1 -2 -3
now that feels a lot better
March 22nd, 2007 at 7:38 pmRocket Hits Baghdad as PM Tells Media Iraq “Nearing Stability”
By Qassim Abdul-Zahra
The Associated Press
Thursday 22 March 2007
Baghdad – A rocket landed near the prime minister’s office Thursday during the first visit to Iraq by the head of the United Nations in nearly a year and a half, sending Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon ducking unharmed behind a podium at a news conference.
March 22nd, 2007 at 7:38 pmThe irony of this situation would be funny if it weren’t so sickening.
Jake, it seems you do not understand how human minds work.Pelosi & the dems are putting the chimpy in chief on defensive.
Action-Reaction.
It is much better if the idiot plays the role of reaction.
March 22nd, 2007 at 7:39 pmyou’ve got ot cut off the money:
White Hot Rage
By Cindy Sheehan
“I am outraged that Congress expediently buys into Bush’s evil rhetoric that voting to cut off the funding will not be supporting the troops! THE TROOPS AREN’T GETTING THE MONEY! Blackwater security agents make more in two days in Iraq than our troops do in a month. Blackwater security agents are better equipped and armored than our troops. Our troops are dying guarding pipelines and Halliburton convoys”
March 22nd, 2007 at 7:39 pm8
Yeah, like they’re comparable
10
That’s what we call a BURN
March 22nd, 2007 at 7:40 pmThe entire country was behind that war. Except for George Bush grandpa Prescott Bush who had funded the Nazi.
THat’s right Jake-off. PRescott Bush was a traitor to the US even while his son was in the US military.
Prescott was running a company jointly with German nazis, and he managed the Silesian Mining company in Poland, which became part of the Aushwitz slave labor camp system. Prescott made millions off of Nazi slave labor during WWII.
March 22nd, 2007 at 7:41 pm18 months is way too long. Although I do understand the politics (and physics oddly) of it in that in order to reverse course, a full stop in forward momentum must be achieved first. I think that this measure would achieve that initial goal from a political standpoint.
However, from a humanistic perspective we should seek to achieve an immediate cessation of hostile activities by US forces and a full redeployment of all US troops. Next we would have to enforce the laws against mercenaries (Blackwater, DynCorp, etc…) and work with the United Nations so that it can lead up the security and rebuilding process in Iraq. Then comes impeachment and the investigations into Haliburton, the Carlyle Group, and the rest of the war-profiteers.
March 22nd, 2007 at 7:41 pmHector Garcia:
See, e.g. Cindy Sheehan’s comments — you’d better protect against a rear flank action — also, who is on the defensive exactly?
THE HOUSE IN DISARRAY
Dem leadership pulls DC voting bill from floor; conservative Dems were supporting DC gun repeal…
Leader Hoyer seen yelling at staff on floor…
Speaker Pelosi absent because she is desperately searching for Iraq supplemental votes…
Holmes-Norton standing silently in disbelief..
LOL
March 22nd, 2007 at 7:45 pmI don’t like this “plan.” I want them home ASAP.
March 22nd, 2007 at 7:46 pmAnd for a third time Jake has invoked The List â„¢ I am seriously starting to think I know who Jake really is.
Comment by Spudge_Boy
Definately Time for us to ignore “Jake Who?” it seems.
March 22nd, 2007 at 7:46 pmThe War in Iraq Costs-
$410,582,455,624 as of 7:43:39
See the cost in your community
Or compare to the cost of:
PRE-SCHOOL
KIDS’ HEALTH
COLLEGE SCHOLARSHIPS
PUBLIC HOUSING
PUBLIC EDUCATION
http://nationalpriorities.org/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=182
March 22nd, 2007 at 7:46 pmI would like all democrats, progressives, liberals, whatever you want to call yourselves to keep in mind that elected democrats are not working in a “free market of ideas.” Anything they do will be presented in the worst possible light by corporate media. If they cut funds, the corporate media will say they are leaving our soldiers stranded in a war zone without bullets to defend themselves. You know this is the case. It does not excuse their carefulness, but it does explain it.
March 22nd, 2007 at 7:47 pmAnother meaningless move by the Dems. They don’t have the authority to dictate how to prosecute a war. That lies with the Commander in Chief nda the military.
Why do Dems always want to be in charge of things they aren’t and can’t be? Some kind of inferiority complex, I suspect.
March 22nd, 2007 at 7:48 pmAuthoritarian personalities who tend to be what I call Bush cultists seem to see disarray among democrats as funny. They, of course, prefer a Stalinist-like political party which enforces autocratic discipline on its members forcing them to march in lock-step. I like the Democrats. They’re messy like democracy. They tolerate more dissent. They listen to more voices. They’re not goose stepping around like a bunch of shiny puppets.
March 22nd, 2007 at 7:50 pmAll this plan does is it provides Congress with 18 months to over turn their decision. I’d like to see the troops home now, but this is a step in the right direction.
March 22nd, 2007 at 7:50 pmYou all might have missed this one while dealing with Jakeoffisaurous…
So take 2…
Here is a more likely path for the fall of 2008:
“We’re sorry but we will need to draft all able body Americans and first send them to any one of the 14 Enduring Bases in IRAQ for deployment to the front in IRAN. We believe the IRANIANS million men army will be easy to stop once we get our troop levels up to 3 to 5 million strong!â€
March 22nd, 2007 at 7:52 pmCynicon: “They don’t have the authority to dictate how to prosecute a war.”
Hey, that’s right. But, they do have the authority to fund (or not) a war and since they have the authority to declare war, some say they have the authority to declare that it’s over as well. They certainly have the authority to revisit the specific authorization they gave the president before this war. After all, Bush has not lived up to the terms of that agreement.
March 22nd, 2007 at 7:52 pmThank God that Congress never voted to withdraw from WWII.
Comment by Jerk — March 22, 2007 @ 7:23 pm
You know Jake, for a guy who claims to be 75, you’re pretty stupid.
No one here would have been opposed to the fight in WW2.
In WW2, Hitler was invading our allies country, and leaving the boundary’s of his dominion. That is why we went in. And that is why we won. Because we went in with our ALLIES.
And because we were in the right.
In 1991, Saddam Hussein invaded another country. We, along with the our Allies went in, and kicked his militaries ass back to the stone age. We won, because we went in with our allies.
And because we were in the right.
In 2003, your little tyrant invaded Iraq. The world told us not to go. Most of our allies refused to go. The CIA said don’t buy Chalabi, or the Niger story. But Bush went anyway.
And that is why we lost.
Because we didn’t go in with our Allies.
And because we were in the wrong.
March 22nd, 2007 at 7:55 pmJake – is all war good for our country?
March 22nd, 2007 at 7:56 pmWW2, was a war to drive back and defeat countries that were invading other nations.
Deseret Storm was to drive back and defeat a country that was invading another nation.
Bush’s invasion and occupation, is not even in the same catagory.
March 22nd, 2007 at 8:02 pmthey do have the authority to fund (or not) a war
Comment by Bluedog49
Exactly what they should do if they want to bring it to an end faster, Blue. Question is, do they have the balls to do it? Based on the way they are dancing around it right now, I doubt it.
March 22nd, 2007 at 8:04 pmDon’t any of you see this for the “Made for TV” drama that it is? Honestly the Reps & Dems have no desire or compulsion to EXIT from IRAQ. Not now, not soon, not later, not ever. We are there to protect our (new found stolen) oil to guarantee our lifestyle for a little while longer. They can’t use my words so they have trained us to use theirs. Mistake, WMD, 9-11, Axis of Evil, Satan & Hitler are just a few. Now you can be diverted by the DC Drama called…..
DIVIDE AND CONQUER
March 22nd, 2007 at 8:05 pmWORFUES:
That’s your opinion. I disagree, obviously.
Cynicon Implant:
I doubt it too. If they actually do get anywhere close to shutting down the war in the Senate, though, I hope Lieberman finally decides to caucus with the GOP.
March 22nd, 2007 at 8:08 pmJack Murtha wants us out.
March 22nd, 2007 at 8:09 pmJack “Cut and Run” Murtha?
March 22nd, 2007 at 8:11 pmWe hope so too. He, just like you pretends that he isn’t a republican, but backs every policy and ideology of the republican party. You are loyal republicans.
March 22nd, 2007 at 8:14 pmDepending on the propaganda a whole nation can be destroyed without firing one shot. Many here mention how corporations run the nation. The corporations are tools that report to the DoD and it is the MILITARY that runs EVERYTHING. Look how they provide the DC show for us but we will be on the wrong end of the guns should we wind up under Martial Law.
March 22nd, 2007 at 8:15 pmJake i cannot understand what are you doing in this blog.Do you have any other skills besides torturing progressives?
March 22nd, 2007 at 8:16 pmNo.
Jack “kick-ur-ass” Murtha, you inbred chickenhawk.
March 22nd, 2007 at 8:16 pmThat’s your opinion. I disagree, obviously.
Comment by Joke — March 22, 2007 @ 8:08 pm
Oh I’m sorry.
Were you under the mistaken notion that I give rats ass about what you agree or don’t agree with?
:|
My bad.
March 22nd, 2007 at 8:19 pmHector Garcia sez:
I don’t think you’re using that word right, Hector. Despite what the neocons might say to the contrary, “torturing” is not a synonym for “amusing”.
March 22nd, 2007 at 8:19 pmOUT Of Iraq and out of my Govt.
Jake and Cynicons heros
Women who were arrested with their children were forced to watch their boys being sodomized with chemical glow sticks as the cameras rolled. Investigative journalist Seymour Hersh says that the U.S. government is still withholding the tapes because of the horror of the “soundtrack of the shrieking boys” and their mothers begging to be killed in favor of seeing their children raped and tortured.
…and there is nothing now from preventing the same thing in this country.
March 22nd, 2007 at 8:22 pmI didn’t know laughing fits into the torture category, because that is all Jake does is make me laugh. He is a 75 year old bafoon. The nurse at the old folks home needs to give him an extra Jello pudding cup to keep him busy.
March 22nd, 2007 at 8:22 pmActually I think the word you’re looking for is “nauseating“.
March 22nd, 2007 at 8:23 pmJake sez:
It’s not an opinion, Jake, it’s an observation of fact. Opinion may be equivalent with fact in your little world, but this is the reality-based community.
March 22nd, 2007 at 8:24 pmHector Garcia:
I don’t mean to “torture” anyone. I understand I won’t change their minds. I’m posting the other side mainly for the lurkers out there : )
March 22nd, 2007 at 8:29 pmThis is unfair for the Americans that dont want to be in Iraq, but are forced to be “the last asked to die” for a false war.
If the Democrats allowed Bush to move forwards with a continued blank check the Democrats should be “impeached” by We the People. If this is the best agreement the Democrats can get for now then they better not let it slip by them. Most complex tasks must be done in steps.
March 22nd, 2007 at 8:32 pmdon’t mean to “torture†anyone. I understand I won’t change their minds. I’m posting the other side mainly for the lurkers out there : )
Comment by Jerk— March 22, 2007 @ 8:29 pm
You mean like calling a decorated 38 year veteran of the United States Marine Corps, a coward?
Is that the “other side” you want to show them?
Yes by all means.
Please do show all the “lurkers” out there that side.
I’m sure it will go over well.
March 22nd, 2007 at 8:32 pm“Thank God that Congress never voted to withdraw from WWII.”
Thank God Roosevlet didn’t attack Brazil, and then lose.
March 22nd, 2007 at 8:33 pmWORFEUS sez:
Jake’s idiotic screeds have done wonders for the Progressive movement.
If he’s not a paid troll, he should be…by us.
March 22nd, 2007 at 8:37 pmThank God Roosevlet didn’t attack Brazil, and then lose.
Comment by joe — March 22, 2007 @ 8:33 pm
Amen.
If North Korea decided to overrun the DMZ, Bush would probably attack Taiwan.
March 22nd, 2007 at 8:38 pmIf he’s not a paid troll, he should be…by us.
Comment by TripMaster Monkey — March 22, 2007 @ 8:37 pm
LOL
Now THATS funny.
March 22nd, 2007 at 8:39 pmSo, we give the reality side of the story and Jake the dumb fu*k will give the fantasy side.
BTW: Welcome back WORFEUS
March 22nd, 2007 at 8:39 pmThanks Spudge
March 22nd, 2007 at 8:41 pmGerald Gibson Jr.:
How are the Democrats going to be “impeached†by We the People? Election Day is not even until November of 2008! Maybe if you live in San Francisco, you could try recalling Pelosi?
joe:
FDR attacked north Africa, of all places, after Pearl Harbor. He never won against Japan. You do know that, right?
March 22nd, 2007 at 8:42 pmWORFEUS, (and you too, Jake),
You know what we would do if North Korea crossed the DMZ tomorrow?
You know what we would do if China jumped the Straights?
You know what we would do if an Islamist militia seized the oil fields in Nigeria?
Nothing. Because we can’t.
There are worse things than living to fight another day, Jake. Let’s go back to Afghanistan and win.
March 22nd, 2007 at 8:43 pmJake,
FDR attacked the Axis Powers in North Africa. The ones who attacked us. He didn’t attack some North African country that was in a state of war with Germany.
For the record, I’m all for attacking al Qaeda wherever they are found, and their allies, like the Taliban.
March 22nd, 2007 at 8:50 pmCongresswomen Barbara Lee (D-CA), Lynn Woolsey (D-CA), Maxine Waters (D-CA) and Diane Watson (D-CA) have led Congressional opposition to the war in Iraq since before it started and have consistently voted against funding for the war as a matter of conscience.
…American Heroines…
March 22nd, 2007 at 8:51 pmjoe:
FDR attacked north Africa, of all places, after Pearl Harbor. He never won against Japan. You do know that, right?
Comment by Joke — March 22, 2007 @ 8:42 pm
You realize the rest of us attended grade school, right?
FDR died BEFORE the war was ended on both fronts.
But less than a month after his death, the war he had fought defeated Hitler.
Truman acknowledged on VE day that FDR’s commitment to defeating the spread of the Nazi’s in Europe was the wisest decision anyone could have made.
Had Hitler been permitted to continue, we’d have a very different world today.
Course, that might be good for guys like you, huh?
March 22nd, 2007 at 8:55 pmHow are the Democrats going to be “impeached†by We the People?
Comment by Jake
You dont know much about Thomas Jefferson do you?
March 22nd, 2007 at 8:59 pmBut I will give you this Jake.
I can see some similarites to our occupation of Iraq, and WW2.
Our occupation of Iraq, reminds me of the Nazi occupation of Poland.
Right down to the IED’s.
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:00 pmJake,
Remember 1966, and 1968, when people were saying “Let’s end this. It’s not getting any better.” People like you – probably you, you old bastid – were saying we should stay the course. Would you care to inform me what a half dozen more years of pointless warfare in Southeast Asia accomplished?
If we leave now, we can do so on something like our own terms. We can protect the Kurds’ democracy, keep other countries like Iran from setting up shop in Iraq, and keep Al Qaeda from taking over Anbar.
If we leave in five years, we’ll be flying helicopters off the roof of the embassy, the Kurds will back under some Arab dictator’s boot (assuming the Turks don’t kill them all first), Iranian troops will own most of the rest of the country, and Anbar will look like Afghanistan circa 1998.
Dude, take half a loaf already. There’s no pony under this manure. Is this stubbornness really about your country? Or your pride?
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:05 pmThe Polish women used to stand on the balconies, and lure the German halftracks and kubelwagens (their Humvee) down the strasse’s, waving cheerfully, and flirtatiously, until the German vehicles were directly below their windows.
Then they’d throw homeade fire bombs (molotof cocktails-kerosene or any flammable liquid in a bottle with a rag for a fuse) onto the halftracks and trucks and burn the Germans alive in their vehicles.
And we honored them as hero’s. And rightfully so.
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:05 pmThey have the votes for 2/3 majority?
Comment by Jake
What, you want to see more death even after your prescious oil law passes? Haven’t you caused enough grief?
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:07 pm***** More than 50,000 Iraqis have been arrested by US and Iraqi
forces in the past four weeks as part of the joint U.S.-Iraqi
military campaign to subdue Baghdad. (SURGE)Overall,more than 100,000 Iraqis
are currently behind bars.
To hold those arrested U.S. troops and the Iraqi government are
investing heavily in the construction of new prisons.
****(Gee I wonder who got those contracts?)**** parliamentary investigation commission has found that U.S. troops
alone now detain more than 61,000 Iraqis, a figure which is expected
to grow. Iraqis in U.S. custody can be held without trial. U.S. troops
can detain Iraqis indefinitely merely on suspicion, and deny them
access to lawyers .
Since emergency rule was imposed, the Iraqi judicial system cannot
question even what the Iraqi security forces do, or who they arrest.
As has been documented, detainees are often subjected to torture. The
detainees are denied visits by family members or relatives and usually
have no means to get in touch with them.U.S. troops do not inform
relatives of the Iraqis they capture.Iraqi families searching for
missing relatives often do not know if their loved ones have been
Democracy has been delivered
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:11 pmOne last time:
They are never going to “PULL OUT” NEVER!
Understand something if we were not there for “SOME” reason we would have left the exact moment we found no WMD or captured Saddam. Our reason for being there powers your lights, makes trucks and trains move, heats your home and powers your refrigerators (not to mention grows your crops and powers your computers) OIL
We are NEVER leaving that place!
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:15 pm***** More than 50,000 Iraqis have been arrested by US and Iraqi
forces in the past four weeks as part of the joint U.S.-Iraqi
military campaign to subdue Baghdad. (SURGE)Overall,more than 100,000 Iraqis
are currently behind bars.
To hold those arrested U.S. troops and the Iraqi government are
investing heavily in the construction of new prisons.
Comment by Jesus the unskilled laborer — March 22, 2007 @ 9:11 pm
It doesn’t matter what idiots like Jake think. We keep going the way we’re going, and the world will remember the Iraqi’s as the new Jews, and us as their oppressors.
The torture chambers we are building that we call prisons, will become monuments to our cowardice.
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:20 pmBy the way, I hate to infringe on your handle, but Jesus was a skilled worker.
He was a stone mason.
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:21 pm[...] with the likely passage of an Iraq withdrawal bill and the ongoing U.S. attorney purge scandal, the right-wing today is [...]
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:22 pmOut of all the things Bush could have done after 911, invading Iraq, was the most cowardly one.
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:23 pmHey-zeus —–Worfeus
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:23 pm#69 Africa was “key†to the Germans since it was there gate to the OIL and was nothing more than a continuation of WW1 that was another war over OIL and over the same floggin desert we are in today. General MacArthur led the US against the Japanese and was able to push them all the way back to mainland Japan. Then the USA became the first and only country to drop 2 atom bombs on Japan ending the Pacific war in a complete surrender.
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:24 pm@Japan and the US were at odds about trade passage and the main trade issue was OIL
Good for Barbara Lee (D-CA), Lynn Woolsey (D-CA), Maxine Waters (D-CA) and Diane Watson (D-CA), and good for the Democrats in Congress.
and
“Thank God Roosevelt didn’t attack Brazil, and then lose.”
Funny!
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:26 pmHey-zeus —–Worfeus
Comment by Jesus the unskilled laborer — March 22, 2007 @ 9:23 pm
Oh. Sorry.
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:26 pmjoe:
We can do plenty, don’t you worry (what would have happened if we left Vietnam in ‘66 or ‘68 is just speculation — I could argue we would not have won the Cold War yet). I’m sorry to see any American selling our nation short. That’s not personal pride I’m talking about. The United States of America is the greatest nation the world has ever seen. And, as for cowardly attacking only al Qaeda, I’d rather attack ALL the terrorists who want to bring another 9/11 to our shores — our resolve from that tragedy must not pass — I pray it does not.
Gerald Gibson Jr.:
LOL — you think Thomas Jefferson would have penned the Declaration of Independence if there has been an Election Day pending 19 months from July 4th which they all could have voted in to toss out the entire House of Commons, 1/3 of the House of Lords, who could have then impeached the King of England?! Maybe he would have, but he would have been the only one to have signed it.
Jesus the unskilled laborer:
Maybe you should get to work on the DEMOCRATS who are on the verge of VOTING TO FULLY FUND AND CONTINUE THE WAR!!! BTW: wasn’t He a carpenter (probably could make the argument He was the ultimate Journeyman : )
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:26 pmDon’t mean to “torture†anyone. I understand I won’t change their minds. I’m posting the other side mainly for the lurkers out there : )
You haven’t changed anyones mind, thats true, but yet you continue your nonsensical drug addict Lushian drivel. Nobobody, even the lurkers find you amusing. So why do you persist?
We won’t solve the problems in Iraq until we confront our failed policy of foreign interventionism and misguided logic of preemptive wars based on lies and faulty intelligence. We will not solve the problems of energy by attacking countries that do have oil for it is in limited supply.
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:28 pmSaywho. I can assure you I don’t need a history lesson on WW2. My father served, as did all of my uncles, and I spent the greater part of my youth studying the war.
You can belittle it to oil if you want, but I can assure you it was not.
Hitler invaded Poland and France, and was carpet bombing England.
Our trade issues with Japan aside, once we were struck by Japan, and our Navy sent to the bottom of the sea, I don’t think we needed the oil incentive, if you get my drift.
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:30 pmI had to laugh today when Tim “Tweety” Matthews actually handed VA Rep. Cantor his ass in terms of his lack of knowledge of the Constitution. The dude simply did not know if the Constitution says Congress has to approve the President if he wants to go to war. He kept babbling that the Pres is “commander in chief” which in his warped, uninformed Republican view means “King”. He just didn’t know or didn’t believe anything else, actually–either way, Cantor was lost, totally lost. He was opposite CA Congresswoman Tauscher who said that she wished we DID have a Commander in Chief for this war, which was like a terrific punc in the nose. It occurred to me that newly elected Rep.’s and Sen.’s should be forced to attend a Constitutional Law immersion class before they ever set foot in the damn halls of Congress. Dumb freaking idiots.
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:32 pmBTW: wasn’t He a carpenter (probably could make the argument He was the ultimate Journeyman : )
Comment by Jake — March 22, 2007 @ 9:26 pm
No.
Like most Sunday School neocons you don’t even know the man whom you claim to follow.
:|
He was a stone mason siegfried.
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:32 pmAfghanistan was invaded so that Halliburton could build a NG and OIL pipeline from the Caspian Sea to Iraq in order to shorten the trip distance for LNG and OIL tankers to the USA. That pipe has been completed by the way. They have enduring US bases too. The pipeline can be protected in this way.
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:33 pmComment by Jake
Post Revolutionary War Jake… Post… Know who John Adams is? Know anything about the Bill of Rights? And how Jefferson is connected to those two?
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:34 pmComment by The Artist Formerly Known as WORFEUS
I took Saywhos comments as a demonstration of humanity acting like idiots over oil even if it meant war (Japan bombing the USA). Though maybe he was strickly blaming the US…
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:36 pmAnd, as for cowardly attacking only al Qaeda, I’d rather attack ALL the terrorists who want to bring another 9/11 to our shores — our resolve from that tragedy must not pass — I pray it does not.
Comment by an inbred trailer park idiot — March 22, 2007 @ 9:26 pm
You’re an idiot. I’d tell you Al Quaida wasn’t in Iraq, but you know that already.
You’re just creating more enemies as you murder people for your cowardice.
If Patton were here, he’d slap you.
Coward.
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:37 pmI’m an editor for FOX NEWS Jake, thanks for caring about my career
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:38 pm#86 Wars exist for one reason and one reason alone. RESOURCES (land, minerals, food, slaves and ENERGY) Germany and Japan both lacked OIL and were polluted from burning COAL way back before WW1. Hitler needed slaves and OIL to assume control of Europe. Japan’s area of the Pacific was a trade route. SUGAR, PALM, etc
The methods that are used to control us during war are by propaganda causing GROUP THINK
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:40 pmComment by The Artist Formerly Known as WORFEUS
Didnt Indiana Jones in the Temple of Doom say Jesus was a Carpenter?
Mark 6:3 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain
Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mk%206:3&version=9;
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:41 pmIf you guys want a good example of how these idiots like Jake lie the way they do, just watch Jon Boltons interview with Jon Stewart on Comedy Central.
Bolton said a President should surround himself with people who think like he does.
Stewart pointed out that Lincoln surrounded himself with his opponents (a fact any 3rd grader knows).
Bolton looked right at Stewart and said “no he didn’t”. When Stewart countered Bolton repeated and demanded, “thats not historically correct”.
See, to a republican idiot, like that peice of crap Bolton, or the peice of crap in here calling himself Jake, if you present a peice of truth that contradicts their position, they simply say “NUH UH”.
Doesn’t matter if you’re telling them the sun is hot. If the fact the sun is hot doesn’t fit into their position, they will look you in the eyes, and say, “no, actually the sun is not hot”.
And then they will demand you accept that, and either threaten you, or mock you, for not believing their lie.
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:43 pmThis $124 billion appropriation is only part of the nearly $1 trillion in military spending for this year’s budget alone. We should be concerned about the coming bankruptcy and the crisis facing the U.S. dollar.
-Ron Paul
Way to go Bushovists. Why aren’t the Republicans crying about having their tax dollars stolen by a government that has grown by 35% under the “fiscally” responsible GrOPers?
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:43 pmI’m an editor for FOX NEWS Jake, thanks for caring about my career
Comment by Jesus the unskilled laborer
Well I am glad to see that your not like Jake here.
But I cannot help but notice you call Jesus unskilled when he wasnt. Isn’t that kinda ironic for a conservative station? BTW Why hasn’t Bill stopped supporting the Bush Admin like he promised if no WMD were found?
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:48 pmDidnt Indiana Jones in the Temple of Doom say Jesus was a Carpenter?
Mark 6:3 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain
Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.
http://www.biblegateway.com/ passage/ ?search=Mk%206:3&version=9;
Comment by Gerald Gibson Jr — March 22, 2007 @ 9:41 pm
Lol. You’re kidding about the Indiana Jones thing, right?
As for the scripture passage from Mark you quoted, the author used the word “TEKTON”, which the scribes translating the codices originally misinterpreted to mean carpenter.
Tekton however means essentially, builder of homes, and refers to stone, not wood.
Besides. There were no wood homes in Jerusalem 30 CE.
Jesus was a stone mason.
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:50 pmWORFEUS
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:52 pmHi,
Look you can pontificate as you please but you are wrong as to the reasons behind things. Jesus was in fact a carpenter and wars are always about resources. In our time the main one is OIL yet we still even see HUMAN trade for labor and sex slaves. The main issue is that we are not leaving IRAQ and so there is the reason we are told we are there and then there is the actual reason we are there… Since Iraq is mainly desert there and we killed 750,000 so far and all of these billions of $$$ what is the PRIZE???
To the victor (that is the US) go the spOILs!
it’s Hey-zeus– Joke Jake
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:54 pmDamn it must really suck to be named HeyZeus in real life. Think I’m dropping this moniker.
Fellas, is it really that important what Jesus’ day job was?
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:55 pmThe dude simply did not know if the Constitution says Congress has to approve the President if he wants to go to war.
That’s certainly true, but this was never really a ‘war’, the resolution was for the use of force to enforce UN/US resolutions which have been found to be untrue: IE this makes this ‘police action’ illegal.
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:58 pmWORFEUS
Hi,
Look you can pontificate as you please but you are wrong as to the reasons behind things. Jesus was in fact a carpenter
Comment by Saywho — March 22, 2007 @ 9:52 pm
Pontificate?
I only do that in private.
Look, it is not pontificating to provide you with the correct translation of a word.
You can believe whatever gets you up the hill.
But you quoted me a scripture from Mark.
I gave you the original word from the original codex, both in Greek and its English translation.
Its just a fact. Sorry.
Mark used the word, Tekton.
Tekton does not mean carpenter. In this instance, in 80 CE when it was written, it refered to STONE MASON.
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:59 pmHeyZeus in real life. Think I’m dropping this moniker.
In greek it was IsouV. Hey-Zeus is a hispanic pronounciation. Besides there was no ‘J’ till much later.
March 22nd, 2007 at 10:02 pmFellas, is it really that important what Jesus’ day job was?
Comment by TripMaster Monkey — March 22, 2007 @ 9:55 pm
Probably was to his boss.
:|
Just kidding. No, its probably not.
But I do not deal in misinformation or half truths.
I can’t tell a guy, yea you’ve got a point, if he’s completely wrong.
Theres lots of disinformation about Jesus out there, and the reason its out there is because people just don’t know.
But everyone wants to be a preacher.
March 22nd, 2007 at 10:03 pmAnd he’s wrong about WW2. While there was obviously other factors involved, the fact is our involvement was primarily to stop the advance of Germany and liberate our allies, and that was a great and noble cause.
But I agree with him wholeheartedly on Iraq.
Iraq is clearly about oil. And at the end of the day, I doubt there will be anyone denying that.
March 22nd, 2007 at 10:14 pmBesides. There were no wood homes in Jerusalem 30 CE.
Jesus was a stone mason.
Comment by The Artist Formerly Known as WORFEUS
Well I got to do a little looking around on the Internet about that, but you just about have me sold…google:Tekton … lets see …
March 22nd, 2007 at 10:14 pm#106 You don’t want a history lesson and so I didn’t give you one. Jesus might not have existed at all. War does though and you conclude that WW2 is about the Blitzkrieg, Poland, France, Rome, Russia, etc. In fact these are locations of RESOURCES that Hitler needed to build an Empire that was energy poor. You mention the affects and think of the people but war like Hitler’s is based regarding the requirements of the people doing the attacking. Expansion works but requires ENERGY
March 22nd, 2007 at 10:17 pm#96 The Artist Formerly Known as WORFEUS:
… or put you on their list…
March 22nd, 2007 at 10:17 pmchrist almighty…
#107 Here we go again… Wars are fought over RESOURCES. WW1 was about Mesopotamia and both the Germans and the Britts fighting over a rail way to get the oil located there. Later it was called IRAQ
WW2 was about the control of N. Africa and snaring the Mid East and mass industrialization. As a result of WW1 the German economy was devastated. Most were out of work. Germany lacked OIL and was polluted by burning COAL… need I go on?
March 22nd, 2007 at 10:25 pmWell I got to do a little looking around on the Internet about that, but you just about have me sold…google:Tekton … lets see …
Comment by Gerald Gibson Jr — March 22, 2007 @ 10:14 pm
Gerald. I woudn’t lie to you, nor would I make something up.
I was a theology student in my 20’s, and I studied the original codices and the historical Jesus for many years during that time. I was going into the priesthood, but life took me in other directions.
:|
Way other directions.
March 22nd, 2007 at 10:28 pmJesus might not have existed at all.
Comment by Saywho — March 22, 2007 @ 10:17 pm
Unlikely.
Too much peripheral data.
But there is a school of thought there, but they, like the Christians, have an axe to grind.
As for your interpretation of surrounding circumstances pre WW2, just because Germany needed oil doesn’t mean that was the summation of the causes for war.
Your argument is simplistic and tunnel visioned.
WW2 was much bigger than that.
March 22nd, 2007 at 10:33 pmBased on how badly this regime has conducted this war would anyone care to speculate how the withdrawal will look if they are still in charge?
March 22nd, 2007 at 10:36 pmBased on how badly this regime has conducted this war would anyone care to speculate how the withdrawal will look if they are still in charge?
Comment by Dreary Urbanite — March 22, 2007 @ 10:36 pm
:|
Like a monkey fu$#$#ing a football?
March 22nd, 2007 at 10:39 pmHOPEFULLY, #6 Spudge_Boy, THE LAST AMERICAN TO DIE FOR Bush’s REVENGE CRUSADE WILL BE CHIMPya and FRANKENCheney–SINCE THEY ARE BOTH HALF-WITS, IT TAKES TWO OF THEM TO MAKE A SINGLE NORMAL PERSON, BOTH MENTALLY AND PHYSICALLY!!!!! IT WOULD BE NICE IF THEY WERE BOTH SIMULTANEOUSLY HIT BY A BOLT OF DIVINE LIGHTNING FROM THE SKIES AND FRIED TO A BLACKENED EMBER!!!!! DIVINE RETRIBUTION TO DESTROY THE EVIL F*CKS CHIMPya/Cheney!!!!
March 22nd, 2007 at 10:41 pmGerald. I woudn’t lie to you, nor would I make something up.
Comment by The Artist Formerly Known as WORFEUS
Totally irrelevant. Trust but verify. You dont set an example by giving people you agree with special treatment… that would teach the right wingers that the left acts like facists to wouldnt it? > -)
Besides when you look stuff like that up on the Internet you learn all kinds of things.
March 22nd, 2007 at 10:42 pmSomething Jesus made??
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/10/21/jesus.box/index.html
Regardless, they had furniture, doors, frames, timber frames, thatch and the wealthy had stone. The Egyptians made furniture long before the time we are talking about and invented some of the tools that Jesus would have used if he even existed.
If you dig about his vocation you will get to the point where Jesus was mentioned to be a Rabbi 13 times in the New Testament and many believe that the one time in Mark that a possible trade was mentioned that they were insulting Jesus…
“Depending on which ancient manuscript you read, the people are either asking if Jesus is a carpenter or if He is the son of a carpenter. Either way, they were asking because they were surprised to see someone whom they thought was a carpenter functioning as a rabbi. Jesus was teaching in the synagogue on the Sabbath; in other words, He was preaching the sermon. Since they thought He was a carpenter usurping the role of a rabbi, they understandably took offense. If He were a carpenter, as they wondered, His ability to preach would be quite amazing.
However, the only people who thought this situation was remarkable and offensive were the people who were mistaken. Obviously, the synagogue authorities had allowed Him to preach, which means they knew that He was not a carpenter.”
March 22nd, 2007 at 10:43 pmIf you dig about his vocation you will get to the point where Jesus was mentioned to be a Rabbi 13 times in the New Testament
Comment by Saywho — March 22, 2007 @ 10:43 pm
I don’t need to dig Saywho. I studied the historical Jesus for many years of my life, in fact, giving up many years to of my youth to it.
In fact, I’d wager to say I’ve forgotten more about the historical life of Christ than you’ve probably known.
Unless your a Priest.
March 22nd, 2007 at 10:50 pm“Fall of 2008 is too late. Why do more Americans need to die for Bush’s friend to get richer off of taxpayer money.
Bums.
Comment by Spudge_Boy — March 22, 2007 @ 7:16 pm”
What a dumb unintelligent and plain stupid statement. What friends of Bush are getting richer? I don’t want to hear the usual Halliburton and Bechtel, give us some real specifics?
March 22nd, 2007 at 10:51 pmAnd if you knew anything about it, instead of googling and responding, then you’d know that in order to be a Rabbi, Jesus would have had to maintain a “temporal profession” of a skilled nature, as well as he had to be married.
March 22nd, 2007 at 10:52 pmI’m not trying to be smug.
Its just what I did, and I won’t make apologies for it.
March 22nd, 2007 at 10:52 pm“I don’t like this “plan.†I want them home ASAP.
Comment by Zooey — March 22, 2007 @ 7:46 pm”
You don’t like this plan? Who the hell are you? What experience do you posses to be able to make such a sweeping statement? What will happen when Iran takes over? Do you even think of the ramifications? Of course not, you liberals think you know everything when in fact you know nothing!
March 22nd, 2007 at 10:55 pmWhat friends of Bush are getting richer? I don’t want to hear the usual Halliburton and Bechtel, give us some real specifics?
Comment by michael — March 22, 2007 @ 10:51 pm
Ok. How about we start with Dick Cheney, former head and CEO of Haliburton and current stockholder.
Sure, his stocks are held in trust while he’s Veep, but when he gets out in 08, thats stocks going to be worth just a wee bit more.
Considering its split several times thanks to the war.
Chew on that one for a while slappy, and then we’ll give you some more.
March 22nd, 2007 at 10:56 pm#113 We need to get the religion out of this since actual evidence suggests that Darwin (evolution) is at work here and if Jesus existed at all he was not the Son of God.
Regarding war… RESOURCES are why wars are waged. Religion, race or any factors considered human can be and have been used as motivations or excuses but the actual chocolate center is a RESOURCE.
It was touching to read about the Molotov cocktail throwing polish chicks by the way. Fighting is about killing and while a firefight is brutal the leaders always have a bigger prize in mind. They require land, slaves, gold, water, food, women, oil, diamonds and those are RESOURCES.
WW2 even has an added dimension of population reduction brought in so that there were more resources per German. Hitler got the millions he needed from a banker in NY named Prescott Bush by the way….
Honestly this is all the same war going on and on…
March 22nd, 2007 at 10:59 pmYou don’t like this plan? Who the hell are you? What experience do you posses to be able to make such a sweeping statement? What will happen when Iran takes over? Do you even think of the ramifications? Of course not, you liberals think you know everything when in fact you know nothing! Comment by michael
Michael you always ask questions and never prove a thing you say. What experience do you possess? Why can’t you spell possess Einstein? Rumsfeld didn’t think of the ramifications and didn’t send enough troops now did he? How much intelligence does it take to lie?
March 22nd, 2007 at 11:03 pmwhen in fact you know nothing!
Comment by michael
Where is your certificate Mr. Expert? You been alive for 900 years with a lot of built up wisdom? No? I didnt think so.
Unlike the pussy republicans most people remember the USSR which was only about 1billion times more dangerous than Iran. We got enough nukes to dig a hole straight to the center of the earth where Iran exists now. You are sacrficing AMERICANS for the Zionist experiment. There was no Israel a few decades ago. Rome destroyed it. Iran is no threat to the USA and in the long term only a minor one to Israel if they would shut down their crazies like we need to shutdown our crazies here in the USA.
Our over throw of THEIR government put the Iranian crazies in power. We own up to that. We make up for that. And we act as honest brokers that talk with REASON and the crazies in Iran will lose their control.
March 22nd, 2007 at 11:04 pmWhat friends of Bush are getting richer? I don’t want to hear the usual Halliburton and Bechtel, give us some real specifics?
Comment by michael
Why don’t you know genius? Wouldn’t that be the Bush pioneers? No bid contracts are usual? Why did Bechtel sell WMD? Why did Reagan and Sr. look the other way? Why? Why? Why? Surely you dont make a million a year and if you don’t your being screwed, why do you screw yourself?
March 22nd, 2007 at 11:05 pm“To be out of Iraq by Fall 2008″ is the key phrase. It needs to be happening sooner than later. To continue with another year and a half of death, destruction and mayhem is too much to consider and political cards need to be put on the table and not squandered, like has been done by this administration. Congress needs to push hard for an earlier withdrawal.
March 22nd, 2007 at 11:09 pmhttp://www.whitehouseforsale.org/ContributorsAndPaybacks/
Heres a few starters for you slappy Michael.
http://www.whitehouseforsale.org/contributorsandpaybacks/pioneer_search.cfm
March 22nd, 2007 at 11:11 pmWatch, Michael won’t read the links and continue with his inane questions.
March 22nd, 2007 at 11:12 pmCongress needs to push hard for an earlier withdrawal.
Comment by R — March 22, 2007 @ 11:09 pm
If I understand the plan as Granny Pelosi put it, the plan is staged with a series of milestones where certain conditions must be met. If those conditions are not met, then the pull out could come sooner.
Thats how she explained it any way.
:|
I think.
March 22nd, 2007 at 11:13 pmCmon Michael. Waiting for your ‘intelligent’ questions.
Heh.
March 22nd, 2007 at 11:16 pm#119 So you READ about someone that your religion is based around just like I did but I was able to conclude that religion was and is a path to control just like drugs. You have brought up many points but none related to Iraq. Here I have shown you a path from WW1 to present that hinges around a place and what is below it. Since the industrial revolution started all war has been over LAND/OIL resources. Naturally the land is contested or the passage to it but what makes the land important is what is under it.
Hitler loved his war machines and to build them he needed steel. Foundries were already located in Poland as well as the mines that supplied the iron ore. Tell me you are not that daft to realize why wars are waged. Communism or stopping the spread of it gives us the Cold War, Korea, Vietnam, Bay of Pigs and several other events. When these periods are broken down we see that the root of them lie in a given or group of resources.
In N. Vietnam I wonder if you know what the USSR drilled for and found there? Ah, but the prize was not as large as suspected. The USA has a thing about control of areas that have oil and wants to get a grip before China or Russia do as a matter of fact. We don’t really want the land above or the ocean space just control of the oil a first crack at it so to speak excluding the Chinese and Russians.
March 22nd, 2007 at 11:22 pmIf I understand the plan as Granny Pelosi put it, the plan is staged with a series of milestones where certain conditions must be met. If those conditions are not met, then the pull out could come sooner. -Worfeus
As I read the Iraqi Resolution it stated Bush must give progress reports every 60 days. Where are these progress reports?
For Immediate Release
Office of the Press Secretary
October 2, 2002
Joint Resolution to Authorize the Use of United States Armed Forces Against Iraq
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/20021002-2.html
Hellooo Zooey, haven’t seen you about much as of late. -Zep
March 22nd, 2007 at 11:23 pmWe don’t really want the land above or the ocean space just control of the oil a first crack at it so to speak excluding the Chinese and Russians.
Comment by Saywho
So much for weaning us off foreign oil and Bush’s plan for ethanol eh?
Guess that was just another great big fib.
Atoms for peace!
Yeh right.
March 22nd, 2007 at 11:27 pm#134 The 14 giant enduring bases and the huge BILLION DOLLAR embassy complex in IRAQ all speak louder than this bill. Look out that gives us 18 months to attack IRAN too.
March 22nd, 2007 at 11:32 pm119 So you READ about someone that your religion is based around just like I did but I was able to conclude that religion was and is a path to control just like drugs.
Comment by Saywho — March 22, 2007 @ 11:22 pm
No.
What I studied was historical and analytical. While there was a point where I had considered the priesthood, my studies were secular.
I said nothing about religion. I am not a religious person. I belong to no denomination, or order. I do not attend services, meet with any groups, or accept communion from a priest.
What I gave you was historical data. The best historical data we have.
March 22nd, 2007 at 11:37 pm#131- I think AND HOPE that you’re right. At least we have our foot in the door.
March 22nd, 2007 at 11:39 pmComment by Saywho
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Aramco
#134 The 14 giant enduring bases and the huge BILLION DOLLAR embassy complex in IRAQ all speak louder than this bill. Look out that gives us 18 months to attack IRAN too.
Comment by Saywho
18 months to steal your money and resell you the oil you already paid for. Your gonna be enslaved and endebted to the oil companies. How proud you must be of your oily socialism.
March 22nd, 2007 at 11:39 pm#136 Ethanol is in the works and will help slow us till the cliff. However ETHANOL is a combination of Alcohol and Gasoline. The world consumes 85 million B of crude each day. As the population goes up we require even more. As it stands oil is depleting at 8% per year. So we will not run out but our supply will fall as we require more. Resource wars and the big one will be China. Nuclear would be good but it has a poor EROEI since it requires a permanent support system and uranium mines are DEEP. Everything we do requires OIL
It is BLEEK news the worst. Our population uses oil and NG to grow crops… No fertilizer and no food!
March 22nd, 2007 at 11:41 pmYour argument on the military industrial complex has merit. Eisenhower promoted it.
But your description of our duty in WW2 was inadequate and insensitive.
Our fathers fought that war for more than oil. Our country fought that war for more than oil.
The American people rallied in WW2 like never before, and like never since. We beat a truly evil man, and a country seduced by delusions of grandeur and misguided patriotism, and conquest.
We beat Hitler. And we didn’t do it just for the oil.
March 22nd, 2007 at 11:43 pmIt is BLEEK news the worst. Our population uses oil and NG to grow crops… No fertilizer and no food!
Comment by Saywho
Funny that plants grew quite well for millions of years with no oil.
Yeh, Historically we have fought for resources. But today the world is technologically smaller and wars become counterproductive. Mankind is simply too stupid, and too damn greedy to realize we all live on this same little planet.
March 22nd, 2007 at 11:50 pmSaywho forgets about Fischer Tropsch (synthetic oil from coal) and the possibility of using Helium 3 (from moon) For what we have spent on war (which is now a scam) we could have created Tokamak type reactors or starting using Candu type reactors.
March 22nd, 2007 at 11:53 pmAnd by the way Saywho. You said I didn’t say anything about Iraq. But I did.
I said I agreed with you on Iraq and Oil.
March 22nd, 2007 at 11:56 pmHitler loved his war machines and to build them he needed steel. Foundries were already located in Poland as well as the mines that supplied the iron ore. SayWho
So why did American corporations supply him with steel and weapons?
March 23rd, 2007 at 12:00 amOh and Micheal?
While you’re busy googling for something smart to say, you might recall that the Congressional Research Service concluded that holding stock options does constitute a financial interest.
March 23rd, 2007 at 12:00 amOh and Micheal?
While you’re busy googling for something smart to say…-Worfeus
Michaels idea of using Google is typing in a ? and pressing enter.
March 23rd, 2007 at 12:05 am#139 Sorry they fought over RESOURCES and RESOURCES are all that is important. I’m glad you mentioned IKE he killed 11 million Germans after the war but yes he made a dramatic speech and the military controls everything.
Test what you are thinking at this moment. We as a fact fought to control IRAQ in WW1 (they had nothing else we wanted) then again in WW2 we defended our interests (by this time more extensive) and the main interest was again OIL. There was in fact everything else that there was too. The US and UK had IKE and Churchill in WW1 and again in WW2.
Test it go back in time a bit and think of T.E. Lawrence (of Arabia) now consider what on earth were the British doing there? The canal shortened shipping resources and the main one is OIL. I can link to footage, pictures and text to support all of this but you do know in your heart that most things have a basic focus. Take the isolationist country the USA prior to WW2. After WW1 the US was keeping out of any more issues. If we did not enter the war then today the Germans would have the entire middle east lock stock and OIL barrel.
March 23rd, 2007 at 12:08 amTo look at the dynamics here is a popular site. It is not about war, peace, liberation, oppression or anything like that. The oil drum speaks about the science of geology and resources.
http://www.theoildrum.com/
4.3 million Unique hits make The Oil Drum a popular site even though the news is not great. I will say that they are more optimistic about what happens when we start down the cliff than I am. Anyway that is the place where all things oil go down.
“Sure, his stocks are held in trust while he’s Veep, but when he gets out in 08, thats stocks going to be worth just a wee bit more.
Considering its split several times thanks to the war.
Chew on that one for a while slappy, and then we’ll give you some more.
Comment by The Artist Formerly Known as WORFEUS — March 22, 2007″
Do you dopes really think Cheney:
#1 Needs the money
#2 Started this war to enrich Halliburton
#3 Was so dumb that this never crossed his mind
We knew some companies were going to have to go in an help rebuild, who would you liberals suggest who that company should have been?
March 23rd, 2007 at 12:10 am“Michael you always ask questions and never prove a thing you say. What experience do you possess? Why can’t you spell possess Einstein? Rumsfeld didn’t think of the ramifications and didn’t send enough troops now did he? How much intelligence does it take to lie?
Comment by Joke Jake — March 22, 2007 @ 11:03 pm”
Joke, in case you are new to this blog let me explain why I come here. I don’t post statements, I simply challenge yours which is a full time job and most of the time you can’t back them up! Get used to my presence!
March 23rd, 2007 at 12:14 am“Why did Bechtel sell WMD? Why did Reagan and Sr. look the other way? Why? Why? Why? Surely you dont make a million a year and if you don’t your being screwed, why do you screw yourself?
Comment by Joke Jake — March 22, 2007 @ 11:05 pm”
Want to back those accusations up with facts?
March 23rd, 2007 at 12:16 am““To be out of Iraq by Fall 2008″ is the key phrase. It needs to be happening sooner than later. To continue with another year and a half of death, destruction and mayhem is too much to consider and political cards need to be put on the table and not squandered, like has been done by this administration. Congress needs to push hard for an earlier withdrawal.
Comment by R — March 22, 2007 @ 11:09 pm”
And explain what happens when Iran takes over Iraq?
March 23rd, 2007 at 12:17 am“To be out of Iraq by Fall 2008″ is the key phrase. It needs to be happening sooner than later. To continue with another year and a half of death, destruction and mayhem is too much to consider and political cards need to be put on the table and not squandered, like has been done by this administration. Congress needs to push hard for an earlier withdrawal.
Comment by R — March 22, 2007 @ 11:09 pm”
Please, some dumb liberal website lecturing us about the White House for Sale after Clinton!
March 23rd, 2007 at 12:20 am“Watch, Michael won’t read the links and continue with his inane questions.
Comment by Joke Jake — March 22, 2007 @ 11:12 pm”
Joke, you don’t know me very well, I don’t back down from anyone!
March 23rd, 2007 at 12:21 amMichael, You don’t really do much of anything.
March 23rd, 2007 at 12:24 am“Oh and Micheal?
While you’re busy googling for something smart to say…-Worfeus
Michaels idea of using Google is typing in a ? and pressing enter.
Comment by Joke Jake — March 23, 2007 @ 12:05 am”
I’ve just responded to 4 of your dumb posts and never resorted to Google. Unlike you, I used my brain!
March 23rd, 2007 at 12:25 am“Michael, You don’t really do much of anything.
Comment by Bob — March 23, 2007 @ 12:24 am”
Sure I do Bob! Make a dumb liberal statement then I’ll show you what I do.
March 23rd, 2007 at 12:27 am#141
K well if you can get fusion going (30 years and still a no go) we are saved. To the plants go I follow please…
How many acres of food does one person consume in a year?
How many people are on the Earth?
How many acres are needed to feed the world (multiply)?
How many farmable acres exist?
How many acres are lost to drought or population expansion every year (use this to create a curve)?
Alcohol does not offer the same number of calories (energy units) as gasoline when equal amounts are burned. So if the world uses 85MILLION barrels a day of OIL then due to the caloric difference we will require more than 85MILLION barrels.
Do the math (it is depressing in the end) then take this short cut… How many Africans, South Americans, etc die of starvation each day?
How much has 6.5BILLION humans depleted the Earth’s carrying capacity? If you have any number there greater than 1 and climbing then we have (I’m sorry) hit the cliff!
Coal liquefaction requires ENERGY so it winds up with a negative EROEI. Forget the pollution, when a process exists it is subject to thermodynamic laws. This is the worst news of all since it is a law and the Earth is viewed as a closed system. Each day the Earth receives about the same amount of radiation as all other days but our caloric demands have outpaced even that (I’m sorry about that too). In short we would receive more calories from burning the coal then converting it since converting is a caloric loss.
None of that matters….
March 23rd, 2007 at 12:38 amOnce oil crests $100.00 per barrel the USA is DONE, FINISHED. People drive to work in cars some going over 100 miles a day. Carter was laughed out of DC and Regan killed the solar panels on the WH. Now to keep the cheap oil coming we need to KILL. We will all fight there or fight HERE. There the sad aXXed truth cause nothing else can explain why we spent 100s of BILLIONS and all of those dead to guard a desert.
Now we have michael Jake’ing off. What a useless set of broken trolls come here…
March 23rd, 2007 at 12:43 amI’ve just responded to 4 of your dumb posts and never resorted to Google. Unlike you, I used my brain! Comment by michael — March 23, 2007 @ 12:25 am
Prove you have a brain michael, so far you haven’t demonstrated that you have any such thing!
March 23rd, 2007 at 12:44 amSure I do Bob! Make a dumb liberal statement then I’ll show you what I do. Comment by michael
Rush is a drug addict chickenhawk with an ingrown butt hair for an excuse.
Now show me what you ‘don’t do Michael
March 23rd, 2007 at 12:44 amUnlike you, I used my brain!
Comment by michael — March 23, 2007 @ 12:25 am
That would explain why your average post has under twenty words, michael, and why you are unable to follow a link to find the supporting facts behind the claims -facts that you never stop asking for, but you always refuse to read.
What’s more, you said:
I don’t post statements, [...]
Comment by michael — March 23, 2007 @ 12:14 am
Problem is, you do. Here:
And explain what happens when Iran takes over Iraq?
Comment by michael — March 23, 2007 @ 12:17 am
Now please provide evidence to support the assumption behind your question: that Iran will -or even wants to- “take over” Iraq.
March 23rd, 2007 at 12:44 amShit Mikey, having fun talking to yourself?
March 23rd, 2007 at 12:48 amOnce oil crests $100.00 per barrel the USA is DONE, FINISHED. People drive to work in cars some going over 100 miles a day.
Fischer Tropsch become workable when oil hits about 75$ a barrel.
I don’t disagree with most of the numbers you gave, but warring over resources is not an answer either.
People have a computer in their home then drive 100 miles to another computer (unless you work with hands et et et) That to me makes no sense.
March 23rd, 2007 at 12:49 amUnlike you, I used my brain!
Comment by michael
Yet we have no idea what for other than to type question marks.
Never once, and anyone can google this, has Michael issued a valid URL or made any significant point. Your spelling is atrocious, your questions childish. I posted links to Bush Pioneers (Wackenhut etc) yet you simply ignored them. Ignorance isn’t debating Michael.
Heres one for you Michael.
Ann Coulter is a plagiarist prove she isn’t.
March 23rd, 2007 at 12:55 amAnd explain what happens when Iran takes over Iraq? -Michael
So what does happen Mikey? How do you know that will happen? Got a hotline to Miss Cleo?
March 23rd, 2007 at 12:56 amUnlike you, I used my brain!
Comment by michael
Please, some dumb liberal website lecturing us about the White House for Sale after Clinton!
I can tell you didn’t even read the link. What Clinton has to do with Bush Pioneers only your deluded little brain can connect together.
It goes beyond idiocy and approaches unreality at light speed.
You might want to ‘back down’ because your only making yourself look even denser than before.
March 23rd, 2007 at 1:05 am#161 Fischer Tropsch is simply not going to make a dent in our consumption. Sure we will try everything but in the end our economy (based on energy) will fall hard and there will cease to be cheap energy. Blackouts, famine, disease….
You are an optimist….
March 23rd, 2007 at 1:10 amI am a realist and realize that if people are dumb enough to believe that punishing IRAQ for 9-11 is just swell and now 4 years later we are just going to pack up and go ahahahah tooo funny. If anything it will get much, much worse.
Carter was laughed out of DC and Regan killed the solar panels on the WH. Now to keep the cheap oil coming we need to KILL -Saywho
So if I come into your home and steal from you that’s OK? Why then aren’t you in Iraq killing innocent people for oil?
The problem is the oil thru war scenario is not cheap as it comes at a cost to the taxpayer at more than a trillion dollars. A war that you, not Exxon, pays for. Gas has not become cheaper under Bush, nor with this war.
If Exxon wants to go to war for oil fine. Let them buy an island and then create their own Army. If they want to go to war let them foot the bill.
March 23rd, 2007 at 1:11 amDo you dopes really think Cheney:
#1 Needs the money
#2 Started this war to enrich Halliburton
#3 Was so dumb that this never crossed his mind
Comment by michael jerkson — March 23, 2007 @ 12:10 am
Do you dopes really think that they just happened to give a NO BID contract to the VICE PRESIDENTS firm, where he was the CEO, and is still holding stock?
Do you really think there is nothing there?
They just happened to hand the Vice presidents firm a 10 BILLION dollar NO BID contract, locking everyone else out?
You really buy that?
If you really believe that, then boy have I got a piece of real estate for you.
March 23rd, 2007 at 1:19 am161 Fischer Tropsch is simply not going to make a dent in our consumption. Sure we will try everything but in the end our economy (based on energy) will fall hard and there will cease to be cheap energy. Blackouts, famine, disease….
Please, Fischer Tropsch uses coal to synthesize fuel. America has large quantities of coal. It is a fact at 75% a barrel it becomes doable. What about the stuff needed to ‘crack’ fuel at refineries?
The fact is world population will nearly double by 2050. That means twice as many sources of energy will be needed. Oil wells do not replenish themselves.
March 23rd, 2007 at 1:19 amWe knew some companies were going to have to go in an help rebuild, who would you liberals suggest who that company should have been?
Comment by michael bore — March 23, 2007 @ 12:10 am
You don’t even want to go there pinhead.
I happen to know a little something about government contracting, and I can tell you this was an unprecedented award.
Normally this stuff is sub’d out to several firms, who in turn sub out to hundreds of other firms.
This is an unprecedented award.
Unprecedented.
March 23rd, 2007 at 1:24 amDo you dopes really think Cheney:
#1 Needs the money
#2 Started this war to enrich Halliburton
#3 Was so dumb that this never crossed his mind
Comment by michael jerkson
Once again questions with no reasoning. So why did a millionaire take such a lowly paying government job? Huh WHy? Why did Halliburton get no bid contracts? Huh Why?Isn’t that kinda detrimental to free market economics?
Why didn’t he spread the wealth if he believes in free markets?
Of course it crossed his mind. A friend to a CON is someone who makes them money.
March 23rd, 2007 at 1:27 amWe knew some companies were going to have to go in an help rebuild, who would you liberals suggest who that company should have been?
Comment by michael bore
So why have they left without finishing their job? Was a liberal ever asked who it should have been? Do you think Corporations really care about politics? No they care about the bottom line, not what political groups, right?
March 23rd, 2007 at 1:29 amMake a dumb liberal statement then I’ll show you what I do.
Comment by michael dolton — March 23, 2007 @ 12:27 am
Ok.
But you better clean it up when you’re done.
March 23rd, 2007 at 1:33 amNow, Michael, answer your own questions, and don’t ask new questions okay?
Do you dope-o-cons really think Cheney:
March 23rd, 2007 at 1:34 am#1 Needs the money
#2 Started this war to enrich Halliburton
#3 Was so dumb that this never crossed his mind
Comment by michael jerkson
Make a dumb liberal statement then I’ll show you what I do.
Comment by michael dolton
Bush went to a liberal Ivey League School, prove he didn’t.
Prove that Rush wasn’t a drug addict.
March 23rd, 2007 at 1:37 am#168 Don’t break into my house that would be the last thing you do should I catch you. I am not advocating the killing man. My point is wars are about resources. Iraq has OIL and a great location to strike Iran that also has OIL. Big Oil has already split up Iraq and Exxon (and others) provides the energy so that Raptors fly and tanks roll, etc. I’m just letting folks know that congress is a show and we are puny surfs. I also hope that I am wrong since I would like a long life. When I said WE I was talking about the powers that be not me. If things go bad I will try to cut out your liver and eat it though :)
March 23rd, 2007 at 1:39 amIf things go bad I will try to cut out your liver and eat it though :)
Comment by Saywho — March 23, 2007 @ 1:39 am
Well I won’t.
People who say things like “we have to do whats necessary to stay safe”, or “we’ll do whatever we need to to survive”, forget one thing.
They’re dying.
They started dying sometime around their 17th birthdays.
We all did.
So we can’t stay safe.
And we cannot save our lives.
They are lost.
All we can do at best, is extend them. But sooner or later, time catches up.
So instead of worrying about extending our miserable soft spoiled lives, perhaps we should pay more attention to how we live, and the things we do.
Cause once you die, the only thing that lives on are the things you’ve done, and the people who either remember them, or were impacted by them.
“What we do in life, echo’s in eternity”
Decius Meridius Maximus Ulpianus
March 23rd, 2007 at 1:48 am#168 Don’t break into my house that would be the last thing you do should I catch you. -SW
Oh, so you don’t like being invaded? You don’t like people stealing from you? huh.
If things go bad I will try to cut out your liver and eat it though :) -SW
You’d just get drunk =)
I’m just letting folks know that congress is a show and we are puny surfs -SW
That I knew. BTW it’s serf. =)
March 23rd, 2007 at 1:50 amMy point is wars are about resources. Iraq has OIL and a great location to strike Iran that also has OIL.
My point is that this is business and our troops should not be used for it nor should we pay for it.
March 23rd, 2007 at 1:52 am#179 Well I can see your hostile to the point your correcting my spelling. Congress says that @ 2008 and we are done. I said that in my opinion even if congress thinks 2008 is ‘real’ enduring bases (14) in Iraq alone make quitting Iraq unlikely. You’re optimistic and I think the streets of the US are going to run red with blood. When do these clowns repeal the Patriot Act I & II? Etc.
March 23rd, 2007 at 2:29 amWASHINGTON, March 22 (UPI) — U.S. fatality rates in Iraq are staying stable, but the rate at which American soldiers are being wounded is rising.
As of Wednesday, March 21, 3,222 U.S. troops had been killed in Iraq since the start of military operations to topple Saddam Hussein on March 19, 2003. Of these, 2,601 were killed in action according to official figures issued by the U.S. Department of Defense.
In all, 67 U.S. soldiers were killed in action in the 22 day period from Feb. 28 through March 21, 2007 at an average rate of just over three per day.
Troops are dying cause Bush is stubborn
thers no mission accompliced here
Just death to thousands
Dont need no more Lies
Dont need no more Lies
Neil Young ( The best American Ive ever heard …… Oh I forgot hes Cannadian )
March 23rd, 2007 at 7:58 amThe fastest way to end the war is to impeach the President.
March 23rd, 2007 at 8:01 amIf, and that is a big IF this bill passes in the House, this Bill will never pass in the Senate….all about grand standing and the Democrats playing to their base……
too bad the left wingers were not outraged about Clinton’s 5,000+ troops that died while he was in office, and we weren’t at war then.
March 23rd, 2007 at 9:56 amPeter…
do you realize that if things happen as you extreme liberals want President Bush was impeached, there would need to still be a trial to prove that the indicment against him are true? and say that he is removed from office, guess who takes power, Cheney….
you guys hate Bush so much that you don’t even think about what you are saying….
March 23rd, 2007 at 10:00 amYou know, you Liberals have been crying about Bush and the Republican controlled Congress spending money like mad…..
do you guys realize that if this bill would actually pass it would be one of the biggest money wise bills in the history of America? it is full, full, full, I mean full of pork…
so much for the Democrats being fiscally responsible…
March 23rd, 2007 at 10:02 amYou poor Liberal saps….you guys were fooled by Pelosi, Emmanuel and the rest of your party…..you poor, poor saps….I don’t know if to feel sorry for you, or to point and laugh at you….
http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/anti-war-protesters-arrested-at-pelosis-office-2007-03-22.html
Anti-war protesters arrested at Pelosi’s office
By Chris Good
March 22, 2007
Four members of the anti-war group CODEPINK were arrested outside the office of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) Thursday afternoon, following an announcement that they would seek to take over the office.
The group’s members had planned to hold a symbolic “Pin the war on the Donkey†demonstration at Pelosi’s office to show their frustration with the Democratic leadership’s inaction on ending the war in Iraq.
However, Capitol Police prevented the taping of a drawn donkey to the wall.
CODEPINK members were crying outside Pelosi’s office. When asked why, Rae Abileah, 24, said she was crying out of “outrage that this is all we can get from the Democrats,†referring to the Iraq supplemental funding bill, scheduled for a vote Friday.
“We’re just heartbroken that Nancy Pelosi has decided to keep funding George Bush’s war, and now the war belongs to the Democrats as well as the Republicans,†said CODEPINK co-founder Medea Benjamin. “We thought we were going to get a change when they came into power.â€
March 23rd, 2007 at 10:15 amCongresswomen Barbara Lee (D-CA), Lynn Woolsey (D-CA), Maxine Waters (D-CA) and Diane Watson (D-CA) have been steadfast heros. Since Pelosi’s visit to AIPAC, I have not trusted her at all – I do hope this bill passes but what happened to the bill to remove our dying soldiers in the army that bush is deliberately destroying within 120 days?
March 23rd, 2007 at 10:32 am184 – you might as well laugh, howsad, cause we’re already laughing at you because you’re a hapless cultist – a manson family member, a branch davidian daddy, a heaven’s gate-er, and a jonestowner – enjoy your kool-aid while it’s still avaible. After the Republican’ts have slinked back under their rocks, you can join a evangelical church and go protest gay people or something, or maybe join a Aryan Militia chapter in Idaho, and prepare for “the great race war” – whatever keeps your scrambled brain occupied – I’d hate to see you on the news, like so many others of your ilk, under arrest for trying to seduce a 12-year-old, or shooting up your place of employment because they wouldn’t let you keep the radio tuned to Rush and Sean all day every day.
March 23rd, 2007 at 12:11 pmComment by howsad — March 23, 2007 @ 10:15 am
What “sad” sadsack, is that you don’t grasp the significance of that event.
Unlike your reichstag party, members of the liberal stick to their principals regardless of what our leaders happen to be promoting at the time.
And if those leaders think being elected to congress is a popularity contest, and once they’re in they’re free to abandon our causes and issues, then we protest them.
Just like we protest you.
We don’t goosetep to the party line, nor lick the boots of leaders who screw up.
Pelosi is a disaster. An utter train wreck.
And our people are letting her know it.
Too bad you guys don’t get it, and didn’t clue your little emperor in about 5 years back.
March 23rd, 2007 at 1:58 pmRepublicans are made from cookie cutter molds.
But liberals are each hand made, one individual at a time.
March 23rd, 2007 at 2:00 pmFrom Update !!!, ” Still, they decided that they could not stand in the way of the passage of a bill that would establish a clear timeline for ending the war, …”
Maxine, Lynn and Barb – You and your Progressive comrades have neatly filled the prediction made by Osama binLaden in the book “The Cell”, by John Miller et al. A HAPPY “Allah Akbar” to you gals!
March 23rd, 2007 at 8:08 pmDear Worfeus – Nice to have you back – Since there hasn’t been an original liberal thought in over 30 years, how can Progressives be accurately labelled PROGRESSIVE?
I admire your pricipled stance, but you would no more vote for a Conservative than I would vote for a member of the Progressive Dems of America. Sometimes we hold our nose and choose the “lesser of two evils”. I actually feel sorry for Nancy Pelosi – (I NEVER thought I would EVER sincerely post those words!) Knowing any legislation which conveys a definite date for withdrawal WILL be vetoed, and knowing conservatives will pounce on the “Soft on Defense” bandwagon, that poor dear is STUCK.
Ifeeeel really badly for her – I really do.
Tooodles….
March 23rd, 2007 at 8:20 pm