Obey Hits Back Against Washington Post’s Smearing of House Iraq Bill
Obey Hits Back Against Washington Post’s Smearing of House Iraq Bill
This afternoon, the House passed the U.S. Troops Readiness, Veterans’ Health and Iraq Accountability Act. The bill expands funding for veterans health care, requires the Iraqi government to meet certain benchmarks of progress, and calls for the strategic redeployment of all U.S. troops out of Iraq by 2008.
This morning, the Washington Post editorial board, who in 2003 called the Iraq War “an operation essential to American security,” smeared the House plan as “an unconditional retreat.”
Rep. Dave Obey (D-WI) responded on the House floor. “Let me submit to you the problem we have today is not that we didn’t listen enough to people like the Washington Post,” Obey said. “It’s that we listened too much.” Obey concluded, “And I would say one thing, those of us who voted against the war in the first place wouldn’t have nearly as hard a time getting us out of the war if people like The Washington Post … hadn’t supported going into that stupid war in the first place.”
Watch it:
See more of the House floor debate at The Gavel. Glenn Greenwald has more on the Washington Post editorial page here, and Horse’s Mouth has more on Obey’s speech here.
Transcript:
Let me submit to you the problem we have today is not that we didn’t listen enough to people like the Washington Post. It’s that we listened too much. They endorsed going to war in the first place. They helped drive the drumbeat that drove almost 2/3 of the people in this chamber to vote for that misguided, ill-advised war. So I make no apology. If the moral sensibilities of some people on this floor, or the editorial writers of The Washington Post are offended because they don’t like the specific language contained in our benchmarks or in our timelines. What matters in the end is not what the specific language is. What matters is whether or not we produce a product today that puts pressure on this Administration and sends a message to Iraq, to the Iraqi politicians that we’re going to end the permanent long-term dead end babysitting service. That’s what we’re trying to do.
And if The Washington Post is offended about the way we do it, that’s just too bad. But we’re in the arena. They’re not. And this is the best we can do given the tools that we have. And I make absolutely no apology for it. And I would say one thing, those of us who voted against the war in the first place wouldn’t have nearly as hard a time getting us out of the war if people like The Washington Post and those who criticized us on the floor yesterday hadn’t supported going into that stupid war in the first place.
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If the Dems really supported the troops, they would vote to have more of them die over there.
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:05 pmWow! I mean, seriously WOW!!
“It’s that we listened too much.” Finally someone is saying this on the floor.
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:05 pmSpeak the truth Obey.
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:06 pmA withdrawal bill will never get past the Senator (or at least Lieberman) let alone survive a Bush veto. Whether it is “an unconditional retreat†or not, why doesn’t the Congress pass something that will make it to a law? Do they need a refresher course from Schoolhouse Rocks?
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:06 pmYes, the Dems really need a refresher course in the law. Not like me, who claimed that obstruction of justice is not a crime when a member of the White House or Department of Justice does it.
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:09 pmIf aWol really supported the troops he wouldn’t see them as merely props for his photo-ops and public relations ploys.
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:10 pmLooks like Jake’s other brother Jake is posting, too.
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:11 pmYour right Jake your obstructing the phased withdrawal of an illegally occupied country.What do you expect, us to applaud? Go to hell.
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:11 pmIf it doesn’t get through congress the Military will run out of funds.
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:11 pmIf Bush vetoes the bill the military will run out of money while Congress is on vacation. So then Bush has nobody to blame but himself.
If Democrats give the Republicans a blank check then they all should be voted out of office and let new representatives in.
3234 Thanks to small minded people like Jake
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:13 pmDo they need a refresher course from Schoolhouse Rocks?
Comment by Jake
If Bush vetoes or the senators dont pass the bill. Then Bush and his friends will be abandoning the U.S. soldiers THEY illegally sent to Iraq with no funds.
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:13 pmThis is the man that the righties had their tightie whities all in a bunch over when he was “yelling” at a constituent about getting out of Iraq and how he would vote against an immediate withdrawl.
He is no idiot and the way this House did their business was nice to see. I wish they could bring them home immediately but as Obey says “And this is the best we can do given the tools that we have”.
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:14 pmThere are still too many Republicans in Congress to over ride a veto - the solution? Vote them out in 2008 - this makes it perfectly clear, that Republicans should never again hold a majority in Congress.
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:14 pmAnd that would certainly Rock ;-)
If the GrOPer really supported the troops, they would vote to have more of them die over there. Oh wait we did. If the GrOPers really wanted to support the troops we would have more Walter Reeds. Oh wait we do.
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:15 pmComment by Jake
Obey sounds positively Ron Ziegler-like there.
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:16 pmwhy doesn’t the Congress pass something that will make it to a law? Do they need a refresher course from Schoolhouse Rocks?
Comment by Jake — March 23, 2007 @ 3:06 pm
You mean, like a bill banning flag-burning? Or gay marriage? Those kinds of bills?
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:17 pmThis is the part Obey left out.
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:17 pm“If the Dems really supported the troops, they would vote to have more of them die over there.”
Was that supposed to make sense? This is a rhetorical question i certainly don’t want a response from your dumbass.
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:18 pm“an operation essential to American security,â€
I think they meant an operation essential to Oil conglomerate security.
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:18 pmA withdrawal bill will never get past the Senator (or at least Lieberman) let alone survive a Bush veto.
Comment by Jake
So, you and Bush are against expanded funding for veterans health care to fix the issues Bushco has messed up with veteran care.
If Bush vetos he proves he does not give a damn about the troops or veterans.
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:19 pmBut we already know that neither he or YOU really care.
Gerald - you are so correct. The Dems should be hammering on this point over and over again - in front of every mic and camera. The Republicans need to be pushed up against the wall on this one.
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:20 pmhttp://www.antiwar.com/paul/?articleid=10708
The only way to end the war is to de-fund it.
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:22 pmThe bill should be voted down.
why doesn’t the Congress pass something that will make it to a law? Do they need a refresher course from Schoolhouse Rocks?
Comment by Jake
Jason Hendler, this just has to be you, what 75 year old man ever watched schoolhouse rock?
Why doesn’t George want to give the troops medical care?
Why do you think “As they stand up we will Stand down” isn’t redeployment?
Why is George not gonna support our troops by vetoing this bill?
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:22 pmShouldn’t the congress be doing more to protect Terry Schavio from flag-buring gay couples?
Oh, wait. The GOP doesn’t have the majority any longer and we’re forced to deal with issues other than pandering to the extreme rightwing religious nuts.
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:23 pmIf you Dimocrats really loved America you would vote for a party that supports massive, systemic deficits, fruitless and endless wars, the ability of a unitary executive (only if Republican) to ignore the Constitution, the exporting of American jobs, the most expensive and bureaucratic health care system in the world, and ignoring Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda.
Dumbass liberals.
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:23 pmI am about to cry again, because there is now two other people named Jake who are posting on this website!!!
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:24 pmKRank:
Bills banning flag-burning and the Defense of Marriage act DID make it to law — at least DOMA survived activist judges (so far ; )
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:25 pmIf republicans really supported the troops they would assist in the removal of the current administration. they would ask for more oversight into the misshandling of the billions squandered so far. They would demand that accountability for the planning of this shit sandwich be fired and possibly tried for war profiteering.
If the republicans really supported the troops they wouldn’t have jumped on the band wagon to send them without a plan, without proper equipment, without leadership and without supply lines thought out.
If republicans really supported the troops they would back this bill for the additional funding it provides to the troops now plus the forward thinking of getting them home.
If only.
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:26 pmThe Iraq bonanza bill is nothing but pork barrel spending as a shield against the real issue of Iraq.
It is shameless and disgusting and exposes the Democrats’ culture of corruption. They don’t care about govt spending. They hate the troops. AND they have no plan for Iraq.
2007 is looking up by the day.
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:26 pmSupposedly we have trained nearly 150,000 Iraq troops and that pretty much is how many troops we have in Iraq. Isn’t it time to stand down as they stand up, as you say Jake?
BTW, I hear Rush on the Radio calling you, better skeedaddle on so you can get your new talking points programmed into your echo chamber (skull)
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:27 pmJake, buddy, this is a battle you will lose. Bush will lose it. The GOP will lose it. Because all three of you are driven not by what is right, but rather a hyper-partisanship based upon a warped idealogy.
If you look at how far Bush and his zealots have fallen in just a few years that should give you some indication as to where this is all headed.
But cheer up. Maybe you’ll get lucky and we’ll suffer another brutal and devastating terrorist attack and the political climate will be more to your liking.
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:28 pmThe Congress does not need to override Bush’s veto. Without the legislation, the “war” is out of money and will end even sooner.
I say that if/when Bush vetoes the legislation that Congress should reduce the funds in the legislation slated for the outside contractors and war profiteers (Blackwater, KBR/Haliburton, etc…) by 10% and then send it back to Bush with the acknowledgement that each time Bush vetoes it that Congress will then reduce those funds by an additional 10% and send it back.
I hope that’s what they are planning.
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:28 pmI’m an amendment to be, yes an amendment to be, and i hope they’re going to ratify mee..
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:28 pmJake, get all your retarded talking points out in one post instead of spitting your mental diarrhea out every 30 seconds and taking up every other spot on every single thread. Troll.
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:29 pmJake take a break, since you are useless here, you do not need to post every minute.
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:29 pmGeorge W. Bush was for funding the troops before he was against it.
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:30 pmYes, we need to send more troops to their demise so we can have more cheap oil. Hell who cares how much this war costs us? Republicans?
Blood for Oil - Blood for Oil - Eternal war for eternal human suffering! Vote GOP and support corporate welfare thru our defense!!
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:30 pmI am conveniently ignoring the tens of billions of dollars of pork issued intentionally without oversight during the GOP Congress. I am not willfully idiotic, I just watch too much Fox News.
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:30 pmThe Iraq bonanza bill is nothing but pork barrel spending as a shield against the real issue of Iraq.
Comment by Liberals Heart Terrorists
You would consider veteran healthcare pork, figures…..
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:32 pmI am so old I fart dust.
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:33 pmDo they need a refresher course from Schoolhouse Rocks?
Comment by Jake
Jake’s right. We clearly need more Dems in congress to override the veto and get us out of this mess.
Heh heh the message writes itself hey Jake? I am sure you are not so obtuse as to think they should sit on their hands impotently.
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:33 pm“Bills banning flag-burning and the Defense of Marriage act DID make it to law — at least DOMA survived activist judges (so far ; )
Comment by Jake — March 23, 2007 @ 3:25 pm”
Once again, I have to show Jake how much HE DOES NOT KNOW!!!!
Flag-burning amendment fails by a vote
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:33 pmhttp://www.cnn.com/ 2006/ POLITICS/ 06/ 27/ flag.burning/ index.html
The Rightwing retards, who have always been wrong with their predictions about this ill-advised debacle in Iraq, still believe that they will be right in their predictions of the future of this same debacle.
Unbelievable.
Must be a question of Faith in the bazzaro jesus, God of War. They say if you have the Faith, you can move mountains………….
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:33 pmThis is much more than a financial ruin but let us not overlook some basic math. Cost to contain Sadam prior to the War - $1,000,000 a month. The monthly cost of this endless cl*sterf*ck $9,000,000,000. For the cost of what we spent this month alone we could have contained Sadam for 365 YEARS. What we have spent, on borrowed money, in the past four years we could have contained Sadam for 36,000 YEARS. Explain that to the next generation. Disgusted yet?
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:33 pmBills banning flag-burning and the Defense of Marriage act DID make it to law — at least DOMA survived activist judges (so far ; )
Comment by Jake — March 23, 2007 @ 3:25 pm
Congress has made seven attempts to overrule the U.S. Supreme Court by passing a constitutional amendment making an exception to the First Amendment in order to allow the government to ban flag desecration. In 1990, when the amendment was first brought up, it failed to achieve the necessary two-thirds majority in the House. After the Republican congressional takeover of 1994, it has consistently passed the House but failed in the Senate.
http://civilliberty.about.com/ od/ freespeech/ p/ flagburning.htm
Further: DOMA does NOT ban gay marriage. Maybe you should read up on these things before you post… ah, never mind, i forgot I was talking to someone who doesn’t care if he looks like an idiot.
The Defense of Marriage Act, or DOMA, is the commonly-used name of a federal law of the United States that is officially known as Pub. L. No. 104-199, 110 Stat. 2419 (Sept. 21, 1996) and codified at 1 U.S.C. § 7 and 28 U.S.C. § 1738C. The law has two effects.
No state (or other political subdivision within the United States) need recognize a marriage between persons of the same sex, even if the marriage was concluded or recognized in another state.
The Federal Government may not recognize same-sex or polygamous marriages for any purpose, even if concluded or recognized by one of the states.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_of_Marriage_Act
Bonehead.
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:34 pm2007 is looking up by the day.
Comment by Liberals Heart Terrorists
You will be lucky if all you people dont end up in prison by time this is over.
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:34 pmLHT I guess you missed all those emergency expenditures we snuck thru, hahahah! This war will cost you trillions! Hell LHY we set the record for pork barrel spending, bridges to nowhere while not supplying the troops with armor!
Vote GOP for eternal Orwellian war and fascist socialism!! Bllod for Oil Blood for Oil!! Bush for eternal war and for Eternal debt!! YaY big oil and big pig spending!! YaY for the GOP and big government!!! YaY!!!
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:34 pmI am so old I fart dust.
Comment by Jakey Flakey
I am so old I ooze geritol from my rectum!
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:36 pmOf all the people to name-jack, why did you have to do it to Jake? He’s the innocent victim of drive-by name-jacking!
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:37 pmMy nurse says I should stop bothering you young ones, so I am going to go down and watch a movie with the rest of the old folks home.
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:37 pmIf you knew what you were talking about, you’d know that Republicans can’t go to prison. It’s in the Constitution. Try reading it sometime, you liberal twit.
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:38 pm“Bills banning flag-burning and the Defense of Marriage act DID make it to law — at least DOMA survived activist judges (so far ; )
I am so stupid. Please forgive me, it’s my alzheimers. I often forget to go to the restroom as well so I am rather piss soaked at the moment.
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:38 pmGood job, Obey!!
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:39 pmTell the editors at the Post to stick it.
Tell the warmongers to stick it.
Tell the Bushies to stick it.
Notice how the boy-king had to rally friendly faces in uniform behind him while he had his petulant temper tantrum. He has the balls to blame the Democrats for trying to put an end to his horrid, horrid war.
He has the balls to call the add ons here “pork.”
A bridge to nowhere is pork!
Help for Katrina victims, help for farmers who were devastated, help for medical care for veterans is NOT pork - it was what was needed in order to recruit recalcitrant dems who want the war to end sooner not later.
It has been all Bush treason for the last six years and the Republicans have been happily covering up his criminal regime.
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:39 pmBush will fall for his obstruction of justice in the firing of the seven U. S. Attorneys.
2007 is looking up by the day.
Comment by Liberals Heart Terrorists
Yes, if we keep up eternal war we will win again just like we did in 2006!
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:40 pmThat Rove, he has the numbers!
I meant to say “reluctant” not recalcitrant. I am doing too many things at once. I myself wanted a stronger bill - one that would bring home troops sooner.
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:41 pmIf you knew what you were talking about, you’d know that Republicans can’t go to prison. It’s in the Constitution. Try reading it sometime, you liberal twit. Comment by Jake
Yeh, we will show them dumb liberals we can have moral family vlaues and still be crooks and corrupt liars while pigging out on all the pork we can inhale!!
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:42 pmComment by Jake
What did George Washington do to his fellow countrymen the Brits?
Ya now you are getting it…
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:42 pmSeeing as the majority of US troops want this war to end and end soon I hope they see this as a message as to who really supports them. The GOP and Bush refuse to see the reality that Iraq is a meatgrinder chewing up troops and treasure. The Dems understand that this must end.
The blank check to wage war is gone. Sorry, Bushies.
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:42 pmBut you are an Independent, so off you go.
Did I just pee my pants?
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:42 pmHey, lets all post as Jake!
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:43 pmthats some funny sh*t
I suppose it is already too late to tell the WaPo editorial board that pride goeth before a fall.
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:43 pmWhich one of us is the repressed self-hating closeted furry Republican spending 18 hours a day trolling a liberal website and posing as a 75 year old veteran?
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:44 pmHey, lets all post as Jake!
thats some funny sh*t
Comment by Jake
Oh please, everyone knows that Jake doesn’t have a sense of humor. BTW Jake got any more depends? Mine seem to be full of yellow mud.
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:47 pmGerald says :
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:47 pmIf Bush vetoes or the senators dont pass the bill. Then Bush and his friends will be abandoning the U.S. soldiers THEY illegally sent to Iraq with no funds. And I agree with
Raging Gurrl
who agrees with him.
But if most of the news/talk shows are conservative Bushlovers, if the Democrats’ comments are not reported by the media, if the facts don’t get reported - loud and strong - the message won’t get out.
We can write letters to editors, and encourage Dems to keep fighting back, but if we don’t get fair coverage in the media, it’s a long, hard climb.
Will the real Jake please stand up.
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:47 pmKRank:
You are getting very close with the “bonehead” and “forgot I was talking to someone who doesn’t care if he looks like an idiot” comments. I never said DOMA outlawed “gay marriage” (it permits States to do so however and puts the federal government on record as NOT recognizing them, as you cited), and I wasn’t talking about the constitutional amendment attempts at flag-burning — I was talking about the original bill / law that was overturned by the Supreme Court. Proposed amendments (e.g. the ERA) are fair game as far as I am concerned since 3/5 of the States have to ratify anyways. Let me know if you have any other questions, in a civil manner next time : )
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:48 pmWhite House press secretary Tony Snow, a colon cancer survivor, said on Friday he would undergo surgery next week to remove a small growth in his lower abdomen.
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:49 pmMust be his black heart
I wanna be the self absorb, egotistical, racist, lying, cheating, deceitful ignorant 75 year old.
I think I crapped my pants. Better call my nurse.
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:49 pmWill the real Jake please stand up.
Comment by Jake
I’m 75 years old and cant even get it up and you want me to stand?
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:50 pmSay it like it is, Obey. It’s going to be seriously interesting to see the President veto the bill that provides funding for the troops and avails funds for veterans’ health, too. How is the Half-Wit-In-Chief going to explain THAT one to the American people? It’s unfathomable how f*ing stupid one person can be. Go, Chimpy, go!
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:50 pmWhite House press secretary Tony Snow, a colon cancer survivor, said on Friday he would undergo surgery next week to remove a small growth in his lower abdomen. Comment by Jake
That’s me silly!
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:52 pmI am Jake Plummer, and I am a Republican because of what happened to my good friend Pat Tillman, who was killed by friendly fire, a fact which was covered up by the Bush administration while they used his death as a political device to help support the troops. This mendacity about Pat Tillman is far more important than providing the troops with body armor, health care, benefits, or a defined goal as to their mission.
Oh yes, and I am also a 75 year old veteran.
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:52 pmHi, I’m Jake, too. Why me giggle?
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:52 pmI was talking about the original bill / law that was overturned by the Supreme Court
Dayum activist Judges circumventing the separation of powers!!
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:54 pmWhy does Hiatt think he is such a commanding force? Does he like to pretend that he is Dick Cheney? He is sure doing a good job of that here. Like Cheney, Hiatt has learned no lessons. I guess he just can’t bring himself to say “I was wrong”.
The Powell Doctrine was an outgrowth of Vietnam. Had that doctrine been followed our problems today would be much more manageable. But, no, Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld thought they could do this on the cheap. Well, you get what you pay for. (Larry Lindsey was fired for saying the cost would be much higher than $50 billion. Today the cost is 10 times that and growing daily).
Where was Hiatt that he didn’t insist that the Powell Doctrine be strictly followed? Gen. Shinseki was fired for recommendations based on the Powell Doctrine. Did he deplore that move, after all, that is what the field commanders were saying was needed. Does Hiatt even know what he stands for today? His comments are all over the place.
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:54 pmFewer pledge allegiance to the GOP
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:55 pmA poll says 35% of those surveyed identify with Republicans. Public attitudes seem to be drifting toward Democrats’ values.
Jake,
Jake Plummer isn’t a republican, he was on Bill Maher ripping on the administration for what they have done and for using his friend as a prop for his illegal war.
I burped and threw up in my mouth a little bit. NURSE!
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:56 pmam Jake Plummer, and I am a Republican because of what happened to my good friend Pat Tillman, Oh yes, and I am also a 75 year old veteran.
– Jake
Thank God for human growth hormone, the fountain of youth, depends, viagra and outrageously tall tales!
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:57 pmThe Washington Post IS a Repub tool. I was kicked off the blog there for calling Bush a drunk and his mother a whore. I thought they were interested in telling the people the truth. -heh- Oh, well- I’m in good company.
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:57 pmJake sez:
Bwah ha ha ha ha ha!
That’s ‘close’ to insulting? What’s the matter, Jake? Did you compile your “people I’m not afraid to talk to” list like I suggested, only to find it didn’t break double-digits? BWAH HAH HAH HAH!
Careful, Jakey, or KRank will abandon subtlety and openly request that he be added to The List â„¢, and then that’ll be just one more person you’re forced to glare at in silence whilst he expounds on your latest idiocy. ^_^
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:57 pmReality Check, Part 2:
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:59 pmIt’s going to be seriously interesting to see the President veto the bill that provides funding for the troops and avails funds for veterans’ health, too. How is the Half-Wit-In-Chief going to explain THAT one to the American people?
Fewer pledge allegiance to the GOP A poll says 35% of those surveyed identify with Republicans -Jake
But we will win because we are for war and for the culture of corruption and of course vote fraud! -Jake
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:59 pmRep. Obey give them hell!!!!!! I am so glad you and Senator Russ Feingold are from my state of Wisconsin.
Bush said that as long as he is President the troops will not leave Iraq. It will be the next President problem.
March 23rd, 2007 at 4:00 pmThose of us who have been on long enough to read the specific nuances of the written word, know when it is the actual Jake posting to the threads. All of you other idiot fakers can bite the big one.
March 23rd, 2007 at 4:00 pmThe Glenn Greenwald piece is excellent and well worth reading. One of his most cogent points: Moveon.org was right about the war. Why shouldn’t we (or Congress) be listening to them? Why, in contrast, should we ever again listen to fatheads like the editorial board at WaPo or WSJ? They were wrong, they’re wrong now and they seem determined to be wrong forever. Fuggem.
March 23rd, 2007 at 4:00 pmSee and hear some grown-ups talking about the situation in Iraq.
Maybe there is hope for us yet.
March 23rd, 2007 at 4:01 pmThe Washington Post and the Wall Street Journal have the same problem.
Their newsrooms are for the most part top-notch. I have seen a lot of stories from both papers that busted the Chimpy regime.
But their editorial rooms are both Chimpylover clubs. And not just lukewarm Chimpylovers.
They’re get-on-their-knees-and-unzip-Chimpy’s-pants Chimpylovers.
March 23rd, 2007 at 4:02 pmThe Powell Doctrine was an outgrowth of Vietnam. Had that doctrine been followed our problems today would be much more manageable. But, no, Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld thought they could do this on the cheap.
Shooting a camel in the butt (GWB quote) with a ten million dollar precision missile aint cheap! Shock and Awe BayyyyBeee! -Jake
March 23rd, 2007 at 4:02 pmHey everybody listen to me. Me me me me me meme meme memememememememememememememe.
I am really important and have something to say, although it is really stupid and wrong, I want to say it anyways.
Somebody care about what I say, please.
I need to change my drool bucket.
March 23rd, 2007 at 4:03 pmknow when it is the actual Jake posting to the threads.
More like Jason Hendler.
March 23rd, 2007 at 4:04 pmThanks for the link Abby, it was however closed to comments but I will be sending my friends Flaco, Patrick1, Liberals Heart Terrorists and of course Michael over there to do some serious debating.
March 23rd, 2007 at 4:07 pmI said it in the other thread and I will say it in this one.
Jake, I am truly sorry you have become the victim of the simple-minded idiots who think stealing a name is funny. The ones who have read your words can tell who the “real” Jake is. Maybe the children will tire of it soon enough and we can get back to true discussion of the issues at hand.
March 23rd, 2007 at 4:08 pmProud Dem,
Lighten up
March 23rd, 2007 at 4:08 pmI am going to have to go for awhile seems my depends have developed a leak and I need to have a glass of Serutan. Later.
March 23rd, 2007 at 4:10 pmI will be sending my friends Flaco, Patrick1, Liberals Heart Terrorists and of course Michael over there to do some serious Master debating.
March 23rd, 2007 at 4:11 pmMaybe the children will tire of it soon enough and we can get back to true discussion of the issues at hand.
Comment by Proud Dem
Show me a Republican that can debate logically and I will show you a Flaco.
March 23rd, 2007 at 4:12 pmI’m so old that I can’t remember what a big one is and my cateracts won’t let me even find a big one.
March 23rd, 2007 at 4:12 pmI wanted to point out that activist judges are by definition liberal (look it up). They are an evil lot and control the Judiciary and prevent good conservative values from being implemented.
This is true, even though Republican appointed judges dwarf Democratic appointed judges on the Federal bench, including all but two of the Supreme Court. This is also true even though Republican appointed judges (self described originalists or conservatives) have overturned exponentially more Congressional and state laws than Democratic appointed judges, and have reversed past precedents on an unprecedented scale. This is also true even though the “conservative” “originalist” Supreme Court has struck down congressional statutes and broken the doctrine of stare decisis at a rate exponentially higher than the infamous Warren Court.
Yes, activist judges are all liberal. Same with the media.
March 23rd, 2007 at 4:14 pmDo you really think Jake is holding a discussion? Wow. Do you have a neocon decoder ring you can share with the whole class?
March 23rd, 2007 at 4:14 pm#94- Can I cum?
March 23rd, 2007 at 4:14 pmThe money they pay me to puke neocon ideas into this forum ain’t enough reward.
I’ll end up like Tony Snow, growing a ball of crap in my abdomen due to illogical thinking.
March 23rd, 2007 at 4:16 pmI haven’t stolen any names.
But, I did poop my pants.
March 23rd, 2007 at 4:16 pmProud Dem,
Thanks for defending me and my incisive debating skills.
New topic: Why do the Democrats hate America?
Please discuss.
March 23rd, 2007 at 4:18 pmJake: Strike One–The Supreme Court wasn’t “liberal” enough to keep Bush out of the White House. Strike Two–Are O’Reilly, Hannity, and Coulter part of the “liberal” media? Strike Three–Just think, your man President Bush wanted Harriet Miers on the Supreme Court. YOU’RE OUT.
March 23rd, 2007 at 4:23 pmWhy do Repukes hate America?
Why did Repukes drag our great nation into the mud with torture?
Why do Repukes hate our Constitution and Bill of Rights?
Why do Repukes hate Habeus Corpus?
Why did Repukes commit TREASON by outing the CIA’s WMD operation?
Why did Repukes lie to start a war and get over 3200 Americans killed for nothing?
March 23rd, 2007 at 4:24 pm#102: Why start a “discussion” by referring to AmeriKa as America? You do appreciate the difference, don’t you?
March 23rd, 2007 at 4:25 pmWe do not hate America, Jake. What we hate is the way the Republicans have taken what we left them and demolished what was left of the American way. Those in what’s left of the middle-class can barely afford to eat, pay bills, buy gass, buy prescription medication all because the current regime used the goverment and its processes for their own enjoyment.
March 23rd, 2007 at 4:25 pmProud Dem:
Doesn’t bother me — don’t worry about it.
KRank:
I’m more than happy to add you to the “Ignore List” — I was simply giving you the benefit of the doubt since you obviously misunderstood my position — those who level personal attacks far worse than “bonehead” do so exactly because they understand my position.
March 23rd, 2007 at 4:28 pmP.S. I hope the fake Jake at 4:18 pm didn’t really fool you ; )
March 23rd, 2007 at 4:29 pmThat position, for the record, would be bottom.
March 23rd, 2007 at 4:29 pmgood conservative values - Jake
Please illustrate what, if any, GOOD values Cons want to impose on the rest of us?
I need a good laugh.
March 23rd, 2007 at 4:30 pmWhy do the Democrats hate America?
Please discuss.
Comment by Jake
Why do Democrats hate America? -Jake
I am impressed with your highly intuitive, incisive and baseless opine. To answer that question we must first ask another question and that is: Why do Republicans hate America more than the Democrats?
The Republicans have record pork barrel numbers. They have record deficits. They have not armormed our troops. They have not given them adequate health care.
Corruption is an anti American and corruption is what the Republican party represents today. Why do the Republicans hate America?
Thats easy. They see Americans as sheeples, mindless lemmmings and stooges who they can, and do, exploit for self serving materia interests and monetary gain. They wish to use our troops for nation building and misguided preemptive wars instead of national defense.
March 23rd, 2007 at 4:30 pmWait, your bill forces us to retreat in 2008 unconditionally so how is it a “smear” to report the news? This bill was very clear so this news paper reported it just like it was written.
Either way it doesn’t matter. This bill is just like their nonbinding bill. They fully know that this bill will never become law. They have till April 15th to decide whether they support the war or not. How sad it was to see Hoyer and Polosi spend over $23 Billion in pork to get enough yes votes. They wasted $23 billion of our money to get people to vote for something they don’t want just because they get a ton of pork for their district. I guess we are watching one more lie. The Dems just weeks ago promised no pork this year and now rolled out over $23 billion in just 1 year. That is 1/4 the amount needed to insure every America that doesn’t have Health insurance. This is a disgrace.
It is time for them to step up and have a true yes or no vote to this war. Are they to chicken to vote for or against it or what?
March 23rd, 2007 at 4:31 pmthose who level personal attacks far worse than “bonehead†do so exactly because they understand my position.
Comment by Jake
But isn’t that exactly what your favorite pundits do? Why then do you listen to Rush and his highly biased Archie Bunker boneheaded remarks?
March 23rd, 2007 at 4:32 pmWelcome to the thread Roger_Roger. THere are people hijakking names by the way.
How was your Pilates class?
March 23rd, 2007 at 4:32 pmHow was your Pilates class?
Comment by Jake
I blew out 4 inflated exercise balls in less than half an hour and they asked me to leave.
March 23rd, 2007 at 4:44 pmIt would be really nice if the good people at Think Progress would put an end to the name jacking. I know it’s funny in a “look that guy slipped on a banana” kind of way, but it really makes a mockery of Thinking Progressively. I believe it’s good to allow anyone to post here as opposed to conservative blogs that ban any progressives from posting, but the name jacking should be dealt with.
March 23rd, 2007 at 4:49 pmThe following is a small example list of pork they used to get people to vote yes to this bill:
$25 million to spinach farmers in California
$75 million for peanut storage in Georgia
$15 million to protect Louisiana rice fields from saltwater
$120 million for shrimp and menhaden fishermen
$250 million for milk subsidies
$500 million for wildfire suppression
$1.3 billion to build levees in New Orleans
“Altogether the House Democratic leadership has come up with more than $20 billion in new spending, much of it wasteful subsidies to agriculture or pork barrel projects aimed at individual members of Congress.”
Every American, both Dems and Repugs should be extremely upset with this. The Dems lied about no pork and they lied in under 1 month. They used our money to buy the votes they needed for a bill they knew would never become law. WTF is wrong with them? Someone please tell me. Why are the failing to simply vote yes or no to the Iraq war money? It is a very simple thing and they need to do their job before April 15th.
March 23rd, 2007 at 4:50 pmHow sad it was to see Hoyer and Polosi spend over $23 Billion in pork to get enough yes votes.
Still not a record, The Republicans still hold the Pork Barrel Golden Pig award;
(2005) AT $286.4 BILLION, the highway bill just passed by Congress is the most expensive public works legislation in US history. In addition to funding the interstate highway system and other federal transportation programs, it sets a new record for pork-barrel spending, earmarking $24 billion for a staggering 6,376 pet projects
You don’t support the troops and the healthcare they need?
Why if Bush vetos this bill he won’t be supporting the troops, right RrOoGgEeRr?
March 23rd, 2007 at 4:51 pmLastly, what happened to the Dems listening to the commanders on the ground? You folks have critisized the president for years for not listening to them and demanded any smart person would. Now they decide to not listen to them and make battlefield decision for them. Furthermore, they do this by buying the votes with pork they promised not to spend. Everyone should be outraged by this. Demand they do their job and vote yes or no to the money and they need to do it soon.
March 23rd, 2007 at 4:53 pmI believe it’s good to allow anyone to post here as opposed to conservative blogs that ban any progressives from posting, but the name jacking should be dealt with.
Comment by Yikes
Oh please, you gotta admit it’s highly effective in dealing with trolls. Besides it’s Joke Jake and not Jake. Wheres your sense of humor? It’s painfully easy to distinguish one from the other.
March 23rd, 2007 at 4:54 pm#116
March 23rd, 2007 at 4:55 pmUntil TP upgrades this site, it will continue to dissolve into oblivion. I mean, what’s the point? There’s NOTHING progressive being accomplished here, just a bunch of godd*mn whining, and insane babble from paid shills.
Would be tragic if not for the http://dailykos.com/ which is a true grassroots (i.e. not assoc. with Hillary), intelligent, actual BLOG site.
Go figure…
Lastly, what happened to the Dems listening to the commanders on the ground?
Wha? The decider in chief of war president is gonna do what he wants no matter what anyone says.
March 23rd, 2007 at 4:56 pmWhile it makes for longer comment threads, answering questions like those posed by Bill O or Sean H or Rush as well as the Jakes of the world,like why don’t you support the troops or why do you hate America yada yada yada…is a waste of breath or in this case bytes.
March 23rd, 2007 at 4:59 pmGod, you’re all so earnest.
Let’s congratulate Rep. Obey and hope that more of Congress stands up to a complacent and complicit media as they spin their threads to ensnare you in trivial debate (Al Gore is a liar, Hillary’s a controlling bitch,poll tested to be a candidate, Edwards is the Breck girl…. and that’s just Maureen Dowd and the NYT!!!) instead of the issues confronting a country that is well on its way to being 2nd rate. Well we will be if we keep electing guys like Bush.
Oh, and I have a DD-214 from 1972 and I wasn’t drafted, so piss off.
“Altogether the House Democratic leadership has come up with more than $20 billion in new spending, much of it wasteful subsidies to agriculture or pork barrel projects aimed at individual members of Congress.â€
I agree, but that is what lobbyists do. Lobbyists are neither left nor right.
March 23rd, 2007 at 5:00 pmAnd they should be banned from associating with Congress.
R2,
How the hell is supporting portions of our HOME economy pork?
Remember the lettuce/spinach recall?
Remember the peanut recall?
Remember the most devasting storm to hit the US?
Oh wait, you’d rather pay 10 times the total in so called “pork” on SPREADING DEMOCRACY BY KILLING PEOPLE, right.
March 23rd, 2007 at 5:00 pm#118 I was completely against the Repugs wasting our money on pork. I was impressed the Dems came out and promised to not spend one single penny on prok this year. THen of all things, they used pork to buy votes on one of the most important votes of the year. What were they thinking, honestly? It isn’t even funny when our congressmen buy yes votes for battlefield decisions. That is extremely serious and extremely wrong. The sad truth is they now this bill will never become law. They basically punted their responsibility. They need to have no pork and vote yes or no from each member. We the American people want to see a true vote, not a Show vote. It is very important. People elected them for this specific purpose. April 15th is the day it is needed.
March 23rd, 2007 at 5:02 pmYou folks have critisized the president for years for not listening to them and demanded any smart person would.
And Rumsfeld was given the boot for his horrid planning. Rumsfeld did not listen to the generals as well. Don’t try to pin this on the ‘left’ when it is a ‘right’ problem.
March 23rd, 2007 at 5:03 pmYes, those bad bad Democrats. I hear they also threw in a huge appropriations earmark for a bridge to nowhere on an Iraq funding bill, and added a “no Internet gambling” clause at midnight to a port security bill so that some wanker could feed his presidential aspirations. Oh wait, that was the GOP.
March 23rd, 2007 at 5:03 pmObey and hope that more of Congress stands up to a complacent and complicit media as they spin their threads to ensnare you in trivial debate
I applaud Obey for his remarks. But the media has been complacent to the MIC since they took over the BG.
March 23rd, 2007 at 5:05 pmEvery American, both Dems and Repugs should be extremely upset with this. The Dems lied about no pork and they lied in under 1 month. They used our money to buy the votes they needed for a bill they knew would never become law. WTF is wrong with them? Someone please tell me.
Comment by Roger_Roger
Shouldn’t you be mad at the Congressmen that demand they get their pork for their vote. Isn’t that the most despicable part of it? The bill was passed but some slimes wanted handouts for votes. The bill is a good and needed step. Personally I think those that needed to be bribed for their votes for a good bill can go to hell.
March 23rd, 2007 at 5:12 pmWell he “Obey”-ed AIPAC’s directive, so did Pelooka-Pelosi and together they removed the “Iran Provision” from the bill
Now Shrub/Cheney/Israel get to declare war on Iran and condemn us to a nuclear holocaust.
Way to go you AIPAC “Obey”-ing bastards. Thank you so very much for bringing us another war courtesy of you limp spines.
Where are the “minute-men” of youre who organized the Boston Tea Part. We need them now to organize another one by the banks of the Potomac. This time lets toss every damned politician in the river and start all over again.
Government of the People, For the People by the People does not mean being dictated to by AIPAC
March 23rd, 2007 at 5:18 pmEvery American, both Dems and Repugs should be extremely upset with this. The Dems lied about no pork and they lied in under 1 month. -RR
Show me a politician that doesn’t or hasn’t lied. The thing is man has lost his virtue, no longer does he campaign to be elected to office, he campaigns to become wealthy. When it takes hundreds of millions to obtain high office they become as prostitutes.
March 23rd, 2007 at 5:18 pmThe bill was passed but some slimes wanted handouts for votes.
I am reminded of when Homer Simpson snuck in a addendum to a bill and because it was paperclipped to it, it became law.
*sigh*
March 23rd, 2007 at 5:20 pmI believe it’s good to allow anyone to post here as opposed to conservative blogs that ban any progressives from posting, but the name jacking should be dealt with.
Comment by Yikes
Oh please, you gotta admit it’s highly effective in dealing with trolls. Besides it’s Joke Jake and not Jake. Wheres your sense of humor? It’s painfully easy to distinguish one from the other.
Comment by Sigh Crow — March 23, 2007 @ 4:54 pm
Oh I have a sense of humour. I laugh when someone slips on a banana (only if they aren’t hurt mind you and then probably laugh after the fact even then because - it’s funny and I like Chevy Chase). Sometimes it isn’t that easy to distinguish the fake. It’s not difficult to impersonate some one like Jake or Flaco.
There are many people here that deal with the trolls very effectively. It is when trolls are being dealt with that I find I actually learn something. The fakes don’t add anything at all. This blog would just become like a conservative blog if no trolls where allowed - everyone agreeing with everyone else.
I have no problem with Joke Jake as this person is not name jacking.
March 23rd, 2007 at 5:23 pmShow me a politician that doesn’t or hasn’t lied. The thing is man has lost his virtue, no longer does he campaign to be elected to office, he campaigns to become wealthy. When it takes hundreds of millions to obtain high office they become as prostitutes.
Comment by Sigh Crow — March 23, 2007 @ 5:18 pm
I would add that we have lost any sense of SHAME. I mean, wouldn’t you be ashamed to one day say “The President should have some timetable….” and the next day (or year whatever) say “A timetable would embolden the enemy” (Not direct quotes but you get the drift).
For SHAME
March 23rd, 2007 at 5:27 pmHere’s the breakdown.
Jones, Gilcrest (R defectors)
These eight I believe are Blue Dogs:
Barrow (D-GA) BD
L. Davis (D-TN) BD
Taylor (D-MS) BD
J. Lewis (D-GA)
Marshall (D-GA) BD
Boren (D-OK) BD BD
Matheson (D-UT) BD
Michaud (D-ME) BD
And these SIX are Out of Iraq Coalition, voting NAY to protest any continuation:
Kucinich
Lee (founding member OIC)
McNulty
Waters (founding member OIC)
Watson
Woolsey (founding member OIC)
The other members of the OIC voted YEA, since the leaders of the Coalition were convinced by Pelosi to let the members vote their consciences (and give the Speaker enough to get over).
March 23rd, 2007 at 5:33 pmWell he “Obeyâ€-ed AIPAC’s directive, so did Pelooka-Pelosi and together they removed the “Iran Provision†from the bill.
Israel is basically the 51st state. I welcome the Jewish people as well as any person. Israel wishes to independency, yet their independency relies upon US. I don’t hate Israel or the Jews, I am a mixed breed mutt and am part Jewish as well as French and Indian. I fully understand the Torah, Bible and many other belief systems. They all contain many truths but not the full truth or history of the world as we know it. Religion is important and we should never forget it, yet also we should not allow it to cause us hate and war.
The world is small and getting smaller. Mankind needs to come together. Maybe an alien attack is what we need to solve our bias and ingrained hatred to make us as one human race.
March 23rd, 2007 at 5:34 pm~~~~~~~~~~~
Yikes I agree, I have learned many things here, and hopefully others have learned from what I posted.
Bush gets to defund his own war by vetoing the perfectly reasonable, even overly generous, Democratic bill. Hell…Bush is GONE in 2008 anyway so why the f*ck does he care if the troops leave as he is scooting out the door (whether by law enforcement as he is hauled away, post impeachment, to be tried in a court of law with Cheney and Gonzales, or unceremoniously shoved out the door by an incoming Democratic president)?
I say keep sending him a funding bill that sets a timeline and benchmarks and let him keep vetoing it. The Dems keep trying to fund the troops but Bush wont let them! Nor will the GOP as a whole! Nor will the Yella Dog, err…I mean Blue Dog “Democrats”!
March 23rd, 2007 at 5:37 pm“The President should have some timetable….†and the next day (or year whatever) say “A timetable would embolden the enemy†(Not direct quotes but you get the drift).
It’s Orwellian thats for sure.
March 23rd, 2007 at 5:39 pmThey all contain many truths but not the full truth or history of the world as we know it. Comment by Sigh Crow
Sigh Crow, history books are really only one author’s idea of what happened. As well as the ancient texts found in the Dead Sea area, Egypt, etc. The Bible is just a history book. Even if you ask an eye witness what happened at the scene of a crime, you are only getting his opinion of what happened. I am not an atheist, but neither am I a devout Christian. I am a realist.
March 23rd, 2007 at 5:42 pmI’ve been to places in Europe where if you don’t keep your yard kept clean and decent looking, you are shamed into cleaning it up.
In China recently, the government shamed prostitutes and their clients by parading them down the street announcing each ones names.
That’s what I’d like to see. The corrupt CEO’s and politicians that are found guilty of fraud or whatever are paraded for all to see before they go to prison.
March 23rd, 2007 at 5:46 pmLong ago and far away I grew up in Dave’s district. When I was still “home” it was the 3rd Congressional District, and my mother was the president of the 3rd District Republic Party. Thankfully I got out from other that line of “thinking”
Dave Obey speaks from the heart. He speaks with passion. He speaks from a state of intelligence. He knows what he’s saying. As a native born Badger I am so freaking proud of him. GO DAVE. Take names, kick ass, and never EVER stop telling the truth.
March 23rd, 2007 at 5:46 pmEven if you ask an eye witness what happened at the scene of a crime, you are only getting his opinion of what happened. I am not an atheist, but neither am I a devout Christian. I am a realist.
Comment by Proud Dem
I agree, but can even you, or me, or any physicist define reality?
March 23rd, 2007 at 5:50 pm“Well he “Obeyâ€-ed AIPAC’s directive, so did Pelooka-Pelosi and together they removed the “Iran Provision†from the bill.” –Sigh Crow
That is the weakest LIE yet by disaffiliated leftists.
There is ZERO evidence that AIPAC had an impact on Obey or Pelosi.
The ONLY evidence adduced is that there was an AIPAC meeting at the same time as the Iran rider was stripped by Obey (the bill’s author).
Teh absurdity. If that’s all you’ve got (and it is), then you are either a liar or a fool. Please clarify which.
March 23rd, 2007 at 5:51 pmAlso left out of this BAD LIE by disaffiliated leftists about the Iran rider was that Pelosi promised the committee AT THE TIME that they Iran rider would become a bill to itself, which would be presented within the next few weeks.
It is a codicil that Bush will certainly ignore, making it all the less reasonable that AIPAC would bother to try to influence representative Obey to remove it.
March 23rd, 2007 at 5:55 pmThat’s what I’d like to see. The corrupt CEO’s and politicians that are found guilty of fraud or whatever are paraded for all to see before they go to prison.
Comment by Yikes
Yet today we have people who will defend that because they are of the same group.
I am a Republican and I will defend them!
I am a Democrat and I will defend them!
Truth is we are being split just like a child splits mom and pop to get his way. Pundits do not make for a strong nation they divide and weaken it.
March 23rd, 2007 at 5:55 pmI agree, but can even you, or me, or any physicist define reality?
Comment by Sigh Crow
It sure as heck isn’t reality TV!!!! ;)
March 23rd, 2007 at 5:59 pmIt sure as heck isn’t reality TV!!!! ;)
Comment by Proud Dem
LOL
March 23rd, 2007 at 6:07 pm“$25 million to spinach farmers in California
$75 million for peanut storage in Georgia
$15 million to protect Louisiana rice fields from saltwater
$120 million for shrimp and menhaden fishermen
$250 million for milk subsidies
$500 million for wildfire suppression
$1.3 billion to build levees in New Orleans
“Altogether the House Democratic leadership has come up with more than $20 billion in new spending, much of it wasteful subsidies to agriculture or pork barrel projects aimed at individual members of Congress.†— Roger
Please point to the pork in that list. WHAT –specifically– is not a good use of money?
March 23rd, 2007 at 6:11 pmYeah, it’s a real pain in the ass that the only way legislators can be prodded into doing what’s best for the country is to bribe them with hogmeat for their constituents.
March 23rd, 2007 at 6:46 pmBarrow (D-GA) BD
L. Davis (D-TN) BD
Taylor (D-MS) BD
J. Lewis (D-GA)
Marshall (D-GA) BD
Boren (D-OK) BD BD
Matheson (D-UT) BD
Michaud (D-ME) BD
Anybody live in these states? Did you contact these people? I contacted my representative Joe Donnelly (D) and Senator Dick Lugar (R). These people must be over come with contacts. Not like the past 6 years. This is the end game. Contact your republican and democrat representatives. Call them at their state or D.C. office… or both… write them hand written letters (which they pay more attention to), email them… They need a backbone… that comes from us urging them to do our bidding. We cant afford to buy them off like a lobbiest would, but we are the people and that still stands for something.
If we dont do this for real this time Roger_Roger will be right and not enough people will join in to force the presidents hand.
If Nixon went down … well Bush is no Nixon…
March 23rd, 2007 at 7:17 pmDavid Obey, THANK YOU FOR ATTACKING The Washington Post(tm) WHICH HAS BECOME A DEN OF INIQUITY AND ONE OF Bushland Uber Allies’ FAITHFUL LAPDOGS—-UNBIASED NEWS REPORTING MY LEFT NUT!!!!!
March 24th, 2007 at 12:31 am“Yeah, it’s a real pain in the ass that the only way legislators can be prodded into doing what’s best for the country is to bribe them with hogmeat for their constituents.” –RUCerious
And what part of Arkansas do YOU live in?
• $1.3 billion for New Orleans levee repairs is NOT pork — it’s barely a downpayment.
Gerald, that ‘BD’ after their name means Blue Dog. We gained a lot of seats last November and the majority, but not all the seats will vote with the rest of the caucus very reliably. The number of Blue Dogs that DID vote with Pelosi was crucial, and most of why the bill had to be watered down for passage.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Dog_Democrats (list of current members)
Out of 44 Blue Dogs, 8 (or 7) did not vote with the caucus. The cost of that … was in part peanuts, and spinach, and milk.
March 24th, 2007 at 5:29 amSo .. if a war-funding bill is reported out of conference and ends up on the President’s desk with “unacceptable” provisions such as accountability, timetables and/or benchmarks, he says he will veto it. Then what?
March 24th, 2007 at 7:06 pmWill the Democratic Congress just cave, and pass a bill with “the President can do anything he wants about the war(s)” in it? Or will they say “OK .. no war bill”? And then what?
taxelevine, you are making stuff up when you say “Democratic Congress.” We do have the leadership — we do NOT control the Senate itself, and our control over the House is limited as well. So your ‘cave’ is just you making yourself feel better.
The all-powerful Wizard of Oz is NOT in charge. We have to work through compromise — it’s the only available course of action.
March 24th, 2007 at 8:11 pmPaul
Point well taken. So, when you think “compromise” .. what do YOU think that compromise will look like? Will there be ANY enforceable constraints on our course in the Middle East while Bush is President? Do you think that eventually, a bill will pass giving him all the money he wants, and have some “compromise” of non-binding, “sense-of-the-Congress” statements that the war should end as soon as possible … that would not be vetoed?
I’m confused a bit by your position .. you seem to be saying both things .. that the Congress won’t be able to do anything .. and that the President is not in charge. I agree that compromise is the traditional way of addressing these types of issues … it’s just that we have so little contemporary evidence of it it’s hard to know what it would look like in this case.
March 24th, 2007 at 8:19 pm[…] Hiatt and the Post editorial page get it wrong on Pelosi just like they got it wrong on the recent Iraq legislation, the U.S. Attorney scandal, the CIA leak investigation, the decision to invade Iraq, and on and on […]
April 5th, 2007 at 8:36 amThe truth shall set you free.
We need a truth and reconciliation commission in the US or we will never heal as a nation. We are a civil war waiting to happen–largely because of the mendacity that some rich and powerful players have used to obtain consent, surreptiously.
April 16th, 2007 at 11:23 am