Bush Administration’s Secret Plan To ‘Gut’ Endangered Species Act Revealed
Bush Administration’s Secret Plan To ‘Gut’ Endangered Species Act Revealed
A 117-page document obtained by Salon.com highlights a “secretive plan” by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) to “gut” the Endangered Species Act.
The law, which is credited with saving the American Bald Eagle from extinction,” would be changed to limit the number of species that can be protected,” curtail preserved acres of wildlife habitat, and “dilute legal barriers that protect habitat from sprawl, logging or mining.”
These proposed changes are the latest in the Bush administration’s attempts to weaken the Endangered Species Act in favor of special interests:
– Scientists pressured to alter findings. FWS scientists had been “forced to alter or withhold findings that would have led to greater protections for endangered species,” according to a 2005 survey.
– Political appointees overruled scientists’ findings in favor of industry positions. Deputy Assistant Secretary Julie MacDonald consistently “rejected staff scientists’ recommendations to protect imperiled animals and plants under the Endangered Species Act.” She called scientific studies “opinion” and told employees to treat them “as we would treat an industry publication.”
– FWS lists fewer endangered species under Bush. Since January 2000, President Bush has listed only 57 species as endangered — “fewer than any other administration in history.” George H. W. Bush listed 234 and Bill Clinton listed 512.
The proposed changes are also “littered with language lifted directly” from former Rep. Richard Pombo’s (R-CA) failed attempt in the 109th Congress to cripple the Endangered Species Act, and mirrors legislation that current Interior Secretary Dirk Kempthrorne — who oversees the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service — attempted (and failed) to pass while in the Senate in 1998.
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Fine by me — God gave us dominion over the earth and animals — not the other way around.
March 27th, 2007 at 4:20 pmMore polar bear propaganda. Pay no attention. Move along.
March 27th, 2007 at 4:20 pmGood. One the great frauds of history is this silly act.
March 27th, 2007 at 4:22 pmJake, you are getting stupider by the minute.
March 27th, 2007 at 4:23 pmTypical: Bible-thumping hypocrits don’t care ’bout none of God’s creatures but themselves.
Isn’t vanity a sin?
March 27th, 2007 at 4:24 pmAnyone who fishes, hunts, hikes, camps, etc. should be up in arms against Bush. Always the question on my tongue when I read these types of stories is “Why?”. Why destroy the natural resources we have? Why? Money? That will always be made by someone but when an animal or tree goes extinct that’s it. Done. No more.
March 27th, 2007 at 4:25 pmWow, how evil.
March 27th, 2007 at 4:26 pmJake you’re a crazy old man.
Fine by me — God gave us dominion over the earth and animals — not the other way around.
Comment by Jake — March 27, 2007 @ 4:20 pm
Jake,
I haven’t called you any names, but when you’re going to be this self-absorbed and uncaring – you deserve to be called a self-absorbed jerk – because your actions fit the term.
While you cannot prove your god, therefore its decrees, even if I give you the benefit of the doubt – the reality is that with the responsibility of being “in charge” comes the responsibility of caring for that which you have assumed responsibility.
Conservative means conservation. Conservation of our natural world is critical. I’ve beeen doing research on teh Great Barrier Reef for an aquarium project my students will be doing, and it is absolutely disgusting what human greed has done to ensure that the world’s largest coral reef will become extinct by 2030. A 25 million year old “creation”, you think you can destroy on a selfish whim? You truly think that’s either responsible or conservative?
Think again… Or perhaps thinking at all is the operative…
March 27th, 2007 at 4:27 pmFine by me — God gave us dominion over the earth and animals — not the other way around.
Comment by Jake
“God gave us the earth. We have dominion over the plants, the animals, the trees. God said, ‘Earth is yours. Take it. Rape it. It’s yours.’”
Ann Coulter
Aren’t they lovely together.
March 27th, 2007 at 4:28 pmOFF TOPIC:
CAN WE GET A THREAD ON THIS?
Before we go about blaming other countries for endangering our troops, we need to take a closer look in our own back yard!
And the $100 million penalty…how does that stack up against their profits?
March 27th, 2007 at 4:28 pmOnce again, I see they’ve been ignoring scientists like crazy and trying to suppress science (i.e., reality). The Right are psychotic.
March 27th, 2007 at 4:29 pmYou know Jake I’m one of the few lefty’s who does not believe in global warming. And sometimes I agree with Bush’s Iraq policy (even though I don’t consider it a “war”), but man you say some pretty crazy shit, bro.
March 27th, 2007 at 4:31 pmthat pombo was a real classy dude
March 27th, 2007 at 4:32 pmJeff, “belief” has nothing to do with global warming.
March 27th, 2007 at 4:33 pmwow, jake, at least you don’t lie like jeff does!
March 27th, 2007 at 4:33 pm(ps:what up?)
Jake,
I’m no bible expert, but isn’t there something about stewardship in there?
Oh, never mind, I forgot that you’re no Christian.
March 27th, 2007 at 4:34 pmThe only endangered animals not worth protecting are the neocons.
March 27th, 2007 at 4:35 pmAnyone (NOT on the “Ignore List” of course) who thinks that “God gave us dominion over the earth and animals” means that we don’t have to be good stewards, let me know.
March 27th, 2007 at 4:35 pmI’m with you, dlet.
Why on earth would someone actually go out of their way to make it easier for animals to become extinct?
…Someone who liked to blow frogs up, I guess.
This man is a monster.
March 27th, 2007 at 4:36 pmHow’s it hanging, whiteyfresh!
March 27th, 2007 at 4:36 pmNice to see Jake and near-sighted friends think the Earth is theirs to do with as they please. The Earth belongs to my children too. I know you’d like to cut down all the trees to make an extra dollar, but those trees aren’t yours to cut down.
Surprising how quickly Republicans can drain the governments coffers – whether it be a fiscal surplus or natural resources – to line their own greedy pockets. Of course, the Bible also says we should act as stewarts of the Earth. I guess they conveniently ignore those parts of the Bible they don’t like.
March 27th, 2007 at 4:36 pmAnother OFF TOPIC:
Dubai Aerospace eyes $1.5B chunk of Carlyle
March 27th, 2007 at 4:37 pmArab firm reportedly in talks to buy aircraft maintenance provider, repair service from private equity giant.
Jake – this is as New Testament as it gets:
Revelation 11:18
And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
March 27th, 2007 at 4:37 pm#18: I do, but I’m probably on your childish “ignore list.” Now, go cry to your mommy that you don’t want to play with us anymore.
March 27th, 2007 at 4:38 pmDon’t all of us rightards love to sh*t where we live?
March 27th, 2007 at 4:39 pmIn the books of Jeremiah (9:9-11) and Habakkuk (2:17), the Lord warns against destroying nature and wildlife. In Jeremiah, the Lord says that He “…will take up a weeping and wailing, and for the habitations of the wilderness a lamentation…;neither can men hear the voice of the cattle; both the fowl of the heavens and the beasts are fled; they are gone.†And Habakkuk condemns “….the destruction of the beasts, which made them afraid.†In both cases, the punishment is that the land is “laid waste,†just what we are doing today to much of our farmland and wilderness.
Trees and forests are accorded a special reverence in the Bible, and one of the first things the Israelites were commanded to do when they “came into†the Promised Land was to plant trees and allow them to mature before eating the fruits thereof (Leviticus 19:23).
One of the world’s first nature-protection regulations is found in the Mosaic Law (Deuteronomy 20:19), which forbids the destruction of fruit-bearing trees even when waging war against a city. The verse concludes that “thou shalt not cut them down (for a tree of the field is man’s life) to employ them in the siege.”
http://www.all-creatures.org/articles/an-tpr-are-08.html
March 27th, 2007 at 4:39 pmJake is neither old, nor a man.
March 27th, 2007 at 4:43 pmFrom the inception of creation, God gave us a mandate to be stewards, or servants, of the earth. A steward is someone who has been given the responsibility to care for the property of another. As an example, God placed Adam in the Garden of Eden to “work it and take care of it†(Gen. 2:15). Christ tells us in the Parable of the Wise Servant and the Parable of the Talents (Matt. 24 and 25) that we must be good stewards of the things he has placed in our care.
http://www.marah.org/basis.html
March 27th, 2007 at 4:46 pmletter attributed to Chief Seattle:
March 27th, 2007 at 4:46 pmOkay, Jake, I posted proof that your religion expects you to care for the planet. Now retract your statement.
March 27th, 2007 at 4:47 pmHow long has it been since the infestation of Jake anyway? 2….3 weeks? What is the lifespan of a worm anyway?
March 27th, 2007 at 4:48 pmunbelievable: those are great references. I will have to put those aside somewhere when another Republican claims he can do what he wants with the planet because God told him so. Thanks!
March 27th, 2007 at 4:48 pmFine by me — God gave us dominion over the earth and animals — not the other way around.
Comment by Jake — March 27, 2007 @ 4:20 pm
Amen, Jake. Animals were put on this earth for many reasons, transportation, clothing, food, etc. It’s great to have fellow christian on this blog to tell these libs what thus saith the lord.
March 27th, 2007 at 4:49 pma little to the left,jake,as usual.
March 27th, 2007 at 4:50 pmWhat’s up?
There’s a very long list of very fundamental things that scientists cannot explain or even understand. Digestion, for example, is not fully understood. We’ll never be able to understand electromagnetism, or tinnitus (chronic ringing in ears). Yet a baffoon like Al Gore is going to explain the god damn universe to me?!
That’s BULLSHIT. I believe in pollution, and I think coal plants should be green, and I think Global Warming is a rally cry.
And Jake, God made young females fertile before legal age. You got a problem with that? Probably not.
March 27th, 2007 at 4:50 pmDaryll,
You are a fake, a parody, heh, heh.
March 27th, 2007 at 4:50 pmJake and Daryll love “dominion” over animals, right guys? Especially sheep, goats, etc…
March 27th, 2007 at 4:51 pmUnbelievable has to go scrub the eyeballs after looking up that biblical stuff.
March 27th, 2007 at 4:52 pmUnbelievable,
The cat’s names are Amanda and Nico?
March 27th, 2007 at 4:53 pmIt’s great to have fellow christian on this blog to tell these libs what thus saith the lord.
Comment by Daryll
Really, Daryll.
Did he tell you directly?
Or were you just hanging around the water cooler one day?
March 27th, 2007 at 4:53 pmDaryll: Ignoring the rest of the posts on this thread, primarily unbelievable’s? How convenient. Hypocrite.
March 27th, 2007 at 4:54 pm“Fine by me — God gave us dominion over the earth and animals — not the other way around.
Comment by Jake — March 27, 2007 @ 4:20 pm
Amen, Jake. Animals were put on this earth for many reasons, transportation, clothing, food, etc. It’s great to have fellow christian on this blog to tell these libs what thus saith the lord.
Comment by Daryll — March 27, 2007″
i asked the lord if he agreed with what you posted; he pleaded the 5th.
March 27th, 2007 at 4:54 pmHey Jake and Darryl,
GOD IS DEAD. Hate to break the news to ya.
So is Jesus, and neither one is coming back to save you either.
March 27th, 2007 at 4:54 pmsorry Daryll, it’s not “what thus saith the lord“, it’s what the men sayeth the lord sayeth.
March 27th, 2007 at 4:54 pmAnd god so revered his creations that he instructed Noah to build an arc and bring aboard two of every creature, male and female, so that they would survive the great flood and be able to repopulate and roam the planet as was his intent.
But then god got drunk, called up George Bush and said, “Go ahead and kill them off Georgie, I grow weary of their splendor and I invented McDonalds so that you would have plenty of sustenance.”
George paused for a moment, and then inquired, “But lord, what about the chickens for the McNuggets and beef for the Big Macs?”
god chuckled as a father would laugh at the naiveté of their son and replied, “George, you foolish little man, do you really believe that they use real chickens and beef?”
Georgie, looking down sheepishly at his feet responded, “I understand lord, but does that mean that there is not an oil fairy either?”
god then laughed a belly laugh that shook the mountains. “Georgie”, he exclaimed, “what the f*ck do you think the Saudis are? I mean, you’ve seen that ridiculous and flamboyant stuff they wear!” He continued, “Only fairies would walk around looking like that.”
Georgie, looking confused then asked, “Does that mean I have to kill them?”
god, frowned in disappointment and said, “Quit being an idiot George, that’s what the nigras are for.”
Georgie awoke from his dream with a smile, because the world once again seemed right to him.
And then he nuked Iran.
The end.
March 27th, 2007 at 4:55 pmThe problem with the effing bible, among others, is that anyone can find anything in there to back up whatever belief they choose. The book is full of contradictions. How do you determine which statement carries more wieght than the contradicting counterpart? If I tried real hard, I bet I could find something in the bible that states its ok to smoke weed.
March 27th, 2007 at 4:55 pmunbelievable: those are great references. I will have to put those aside somewhere when another Republican claims he can do what he wants with the planet because God told him so. Thanks!
Comment by And You Thought REAGAN Was Stupid — March 27, 2007 @ 4:48 pm
Thanks – but the real credit must go to the people who wrote them… I only used “the google” : )
I think these are the ones they intentionally ignore – like all the ones Jesus gave about peace, love and understanding… So that they can instead focus on hating gays and Muslims…
March 27th, 2007 at 4:56 pmAnimals were put on this earth for many reasons, transportation, clothing, food, etc.
Comment by Daryll
So tell me how warm are your Northern Aplomado Falcon socks. And I just had a Blunt-nosed Leopard Lizard pie yesterday. Hmmm Hmmm.
March 27th, 2007 at 4:56 pmSince when is digestion a mystery?
Or can your brain not understand saliva, bolus production,acid production, bile, peristalsis, and absorption?
You sure can understand defication.
March 27th, 2007 at 4:58 pmBoth Jake and Daryll ignore Unbelievable’s posts where scripture shows their attitude is wrong if they are the “christians” they claim to be.
Daryll just had to post, giving jake a reacharound, funny stuff.
Amazing what hypocrites they do show to be.
March 27th, 2007 at 4:58 pmAmen, Jake. Animals were put on this earth for many reasons, transportation, clothing, food, etc.
The same book says that you, a descendant of slaves, were put on this Earth to serve white Christians.
It’s great to have fellow christian on this blog to tell these libs what thus saith the lord.
Comment by Daryll — March 27, 2007 @ 4:49 pm
Only witch hunters speak like that, Shakespeare… Which fits considering your habitual bashing of gays…
March 27th, 2007 at 4:59 pmComment by jeff
You slept through science and biology classes in school, I see.
March 27th, 2007 at 5:01 pmGood one TrueBlue.
March 27th, 2007 at 5:01 pmJake and Daryll love “dominion†over animals, right guys? Especially sheep, goats, etc…
Comment by ForTruth — March 27, 2007 @ 4:51 pm
Exactly! LOL
Unbelievable has to go scrub the eyeballs after looking up that biblical stuff.
Comment by ForTruth — March 27, 2007 @ 4:52 pm
Really – I have no problems with responsible, loving and respectful Christianity. In fact, I agree with 90% of the stuff Jesus taught. It’s all the Old Testament, belief in a god, hypcritical nonsense that I rail against.
The cat’s names are Amanda and Nico?
Comment by ForTruth — March 27, 2007 @ 4:53 pm
Well, the cats are, respectively, 10 and 7.5 years old. TP is only what – 2ish… ; )
March 27th, 2007 at 5:03 pmFinally!!!!! Now some of these damned, dirty Eagles will finally make their way into my meat smoker!! I’m up here in the Pacific Northwest, and those damned things are nothing but a nuisance!! Good eatin’ though, or so my great grandpappy’s diaries say.
March 27th, 2007 at 5:03 pmLooks like Jake has decided to run and hide, just like Alberto G.
March 27th, 2007 at 5:04 pmIf I tried real hard, I bet I could find something in the bible that states its ok to smoke weed.
Comment by ForTruth — March 27, 2007 @ 4:55 pm
Okay… Go ahead… :)
March 27th, 2007 at 5:05 pmIf anyone wants some delicious bald eagle jerky, just drop me a line with your address – I’ll be giving it away for free as soon as they get that damned hippy law out of my way!!!!
March 27th, 2007 at 5:05 pmThanks, For Truth.
Every now and again I come up with something good.
March 27th, 2007 at 5:06 pmThey don’t get it. THERE IS MORE TO LIFE THAN BUSINESS.
March 27th, 2007 at 5:06 pmI hear in Alaska, they call the Bald Eagle a “dumpster chicken”
March 27th, 2007 at 5:07 pmLooks like Jake has decided to run and hide, just like Alberto G.
Comment by And You Thought REAGAN Was Stupid
Jako always runs from the facts. His standard MO.
March 27th, 2007 at 5:08 pmDigestion, for example, is not fully understood. We’ll never be able to understand electromagnetism, or tinnitus (chronic ringing in ears).
Comment by jeff
Do you know about Wikipedia? All three of those are explained in detail. I wouldn’t stop there though since you should get a more reliable source but its a good place to start.
I think they hit the extremely stupid layer of trolls. I can’t wait for the next wave.
March 27th, 2007 at 5:09 pmJake, do you have a job or anything constructive to do with your life other than sit on your butt and make blog comments? You sure do have a lot of spare time. Unemployment must be really lucrative for you.
March 27th, 2007 at 5:09 pmLooks like Jake has decided to run and hide, just like Alberto G.
Comment by And You Thought REAGAN Was Stupid — March 27, 2007 @ 5:04 pm
Good riddance…
Fortunately, he and Daryll are the minority opinion in this country.
Unfortunately, the other twenty-five of them are in the Bush Administration.
March 27th, 2007 at 5:09 pmMan, the poor bald eagle! :(
They’re getting ripped on.
It could have been the turkey we revered, and had eagle every Thanksgiving!
March 27th, 2007 at 5:11 pmunbelievable:
Did you not see my post #18? I said we have to be good stewards.
March 27th, 2007 at 5:11 pmFine by me — God gave us dominion over the earth and animals++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
March 27th, 2007 at 5:12 pmThis is the latest in right wing clap trap, scumbags like Prager have been spewing this. God will take care of everything, we don’t need to worry about the environment, overpopulation, or emerging diseases, god will take care of it. What idiots, you are in the same ballpark as the ufo loons that thinks aliens will give us advanced technology. How easy, why think or learn or solve problems, the invisible man will take care of it. I wish there was a rapture and all you bible thumping fools were disappeared, it would be the happiest day of my life.
Jake, no one is really paying attention to you, but I find you good comic relief. Keep up the jokes.
March 27th, 2007 at 5:13 pmIf we have to choose between science and this government I say replace the government. They ARE replaceable.
March 27th, 2007 at 5:14 pm#57-”and God brought forth all SEED BEARING PLANTS for man to use” I think it’s in Genesis 2 something.
March 27th, 2007 at 5:14 pmDid you not see my post #18? I said we have to be good stewards.
Comment by Jake — March 27, 2007 @ 5:11 pm
If you truly believe this, then your comment at number one misrepresents your ideology and you should clarify that Bush’s actions are NOT fine by you….
If you think we’re supposed to be good stewards – then allowing animals to go instinct by human actions should be WRONG by you…
See what I mean?
March 27th, 2007 at 5:15 pmI wish there was a rapture and all you bible thumping fools were disappeared, it would be the happiest day of my life.
Comment by ckerst — March 27, 2007 @ 5:12 pm
Ditto…
March 27th, 2007 at 5:16 pmI always engage in the act of gutting an endangered species, they taste really good.
March 27th, 2007 at 5:18 pm-â€and God brought forth all SEED BEARING PLANTS for man to use†I think it’s in Genesis 2 something.
Comment by whiteyfresh — March 27, 2007 @ 5:14 pm
Do you truly not know the difference between ‘use’ and ‘abuse’? Hmmm? Because THAT is what we are talking about.
Of course we need to use what’s here to exist – including eating those plants – but we cannot abuse them – or we will find ourselves in a grave predicament.
Go google Easter Island.
March 27th, 2007 at 5:19 pmSo, I guess the answer to my question, unbelievable: “Did you not see my post #18?: is “no”. I don’t agree that being good stewards means doing everything possible, regardless of cost vs. benefit, to save any particular animal from going “instinct” (or even EXtinct ; )
March 27th, 2007 at 5:21 pmI believe in green coal plants. Who gives a crap if I don’t believe in Global Warming?
March 27th, 2007 at 5:21 pmI support National Forests, eco friendly energy, conservation, wildlife. And I happen to think Gore is an opportunist. But I haven’t seen his movie so I can only go on his character. But no matter what I think of him I know Joe Barton is twice the piece of crap Gore will ever be.
From the inception of creation, God gave us a mandate to be stewards, or servants, of the earth. A steward is someone who has been given the responsibility to care for the property of another. As an example, God placed Adam in the Garden of Eden to “work it and take care of it†(Gen. 2:15). Christ tells us in the Parable of the Wise Servant and the Parable of the Talents (Matt. 24 and 25) that we must be good stewards of the things he has placed in our care.
How does this scripture have anything to do with endangered species? I can use ethanol in my car and protect certain types of animals so their phecies can be used to cure soil, but I will continue to consume dead animals. Species come and go.
March 27th, 2007 at 5:25 pmTry and watch the movie with an open mind, jeff.
Who knows, you might change you mind. Or not – just give it a whirl.
March 27th, 2007 at 5:25 pm:)
Ugh.
Chimpy & Plastic Man, walking hand-in-hand in the doomed forest.
March 27th, 2007 at 5:26 pmLater to dine on Spotted Owls and Bald Eagles.
hey jeff – what’s the difference between “an opportunist” and “our president”??
March 27th, 2007 at 5:27 pmSo, I guess the answer to my question, unbelievable: “Did you not see my post #18?: is “noâ€. I don’t agree that being good stewards means doing everything possible, regardless of cost vs. benefit, to save any particular animal from going “instinct†(or even EXtinct ; ) Comment by Jake — March 27, 2007 @ 5:21 pm
That’s called a *strawman*, and tell me Jake, what *cost* are you willing to incur on the environment to make a *fast-buck*? Or are you so old and spiteful you don’t give a dam about the people you’re soon to leave behind?
You’re a 75 year old *child*.
March 27th, 2007 at 5:29 pmHow does this scripture have anything to do with endangered species? Comment by Daryll — March 27, 2007 @ 5:25 pm
You have to ask? Wow, you really are st*pid.
I can use ethanol in my car and protect certain types of animals so their phecies can be used to cure soil, but I will continue to consume dead animals. Species come and go. Comment by Daryll — March 27, 2007 @ 5:25 pm
That doesn’t say sh*t, you st*pid twerp. Do you always *destroy* what you’re supposed to protect? Is that why you’re going to *destroy* the life of your *wife* by pretending to be *straight*?
March 27th, 2007 at 5:30 pmunbelievable: well DUH. ‘Everything in moderation’ I like cheeze, but i don’t inject it.
March 27th, 2007 at 5:31 pmWait, Jake is supposed to be 75, and he makes rape jokes?
Now that’s just extra sick.
March 27th, 2007 at 5:32 pmSo, I guess the answer to my question, unbelievable: “Did you not see my post #18?: is “noâ€.
Yes, I saw it, but it was inconsistent with your other comments, so I figured you left out a ‘not’ somewhere…
I don’t agree that being good stewards means doing everything possible, regardless of cost vs. benefit, to save any particular animal
See Jake, if you’re going to base your ideology on the Bible, then it isn’t about what you think. It’s about what the Bible says, and clearly it says in Deuteronomy that you are supposed to put animals and thr environment over profits. Go read it. Either you follow it, or you’re not being a true Christian… I didn’t make up the rules, but I do know that you cannot decide for yourself – you must obey your god’s ‘word’, and it’s pretty specific.
from going “instinct†(or even EXtinct ; )
Comment by Jake — March 27, 2007 @ 5:21 pm
If syllable swaps are all you can point out here, really, you should just find another thread…
March 27th, 2007 at 5:33 pmTell me Jake, is that the same bible that glorifies rape, murder, incest, slavery and claims the earth is 8000 years old? Because if that’s where you get your *morality*, it explains a *lot* about you!
March 27th, 2007 at 5:34 pmSpecies come and go.
Comment by Daryll — March 27, 2007 @ 5:25 pm
Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be the case with stupid or selfish… You’re still here.
March 27th, 2007 at 5:36 pmunbelievable: well DUH. ‘Everything in moderation’ I like cheeze, but i don’t inject it.
Comment by whiteyfresh
Injecting the cheese would require quite a committment on your part — stick to melted lard instead. :)
March 27th, 2007 at 5:36 pmwell DUH. ‘Everything in moderation’ I like cheeze, but i don’t inject it.
Comment by whiteyfresh — March 27, 2007 @ 5:31 pm
Except that moderation clearly escapes you when it comes to things other than cheese…
March 27th, 2007 at 5:37 pmWait, Jake is supposed to be 75, and he makes rape jokes?
Now that’s just extra sick.
Comment by trueblue — March 27, 2007 @ 5:32 pm
Oh, he’s some 25 year old GOP operative, just like the one that got *caught* in New Hampshire a few months back. Same “M/O”, of pretending to be an *indy*, while dishing out right wingnut talking points…
You can see what a lying fraud that piece of sh*t is a mile a way.
March 27th, 2007 at 5:40 pmFine by me — God gave us dominion over the earth and animals — not the other way around.
Comment by Jake
GOD – NOAH – ARK
The Jakeoffs only quote the parts of the bible that fit their agenda.
March 27th, 2007 at 5:40 pmI am obeying God’s “Word”, unbelievable.
March 27th, 2007 at 5:48 pmYou can see what a lying fraud that piece of sh*t is a mile a way.
Comment by ValiantVenusGrewFromUranus
Well, if anyone can take care of that situation, it you, VVGFU!
March 27th, 2007 at 5:50 pm;)
I am obeying God’s “Wordâ€, unbelievable.
Comment by Jake
Are you hearing voices, or are you referring to the book written by fallable men?
A person who follows god’s word, doesn’t make rape jokes.
March 27th, 2007 at 5:50 pmI wish there was a rapture and all you bible thumping fools were disappeared, it would be the happiest day of my life.
Comment by ckerst — March 27, 2007 @ 5:12 pm
Ditto…
Comment by unbelievable — March 27, 2007 @ 5:16 pm
That’s three of us.
March 27th, 2007 at 5:51 pmHow many “friends” will Cheney shoot hunting Eagles?
March 27th, 2007 at 5:54 pmre:#96,
Ever see the bumpersticker,
“After the Rapture, can I have your car?”
March 27th, 2007 at 5:55 pmFor the record, I’ve never made a rape joke either.
March 27th, 2007 at 5:58 pmWait, Jake is supposed to be 75, and he makes rape jokes?
Now that’s just extra sick.
Comment by trueblue — March 27, 2007 @ 5:32 pm
Can you imagine what kind of inappropriate behavior he participated in when he was younger then. At 75 he makes jokes, what did he do in his twenties and thirties.
March 27th, 2007 at 5:59 pmSpecies come and go.
Comment by Daryll — March 27, 2007 @ 5:25 pm
No idiot they just go. They don’t come back. And nobody knows what species may some day hold the answer to saving the human race.
March 27th, 2007 at 6:02 pmComment by Daryll @ 78,
listen up, you freekin’ troglidyte: Species don’t “come and go”, as if the two were equivalent. Since the beginning of recordkeeping by man (we won’t go into the fossil record, because fossils aren’t real, they were put here by the Devil to trick man into thinking that the Earth is more than 6,000 years old), hundreds, if not thousands, of species have ceased to exist – mostly by the hand or actions of man. However, you freekin’ intellectual midget, not one species has emerged in that time. Not freekin’ one. Ever hear of the “food chain”? Ever hear about the interconnectedness of species in an ecosystem?
You are a jackass. Your ignorance is a danger to us all. Evolve yourself.
March 27th, 2007 at 6:03 pmFor the record, I’ve never made a rape joke either.
Comment by Jake
Liar.
You made a joke about rape, and you’re a liar.
March 27th, 2007 at 6:04 pmZooey,
I believe he said,
“Lay back and enjoy it.”
Sicko. Perv.
March 27th, 2007 at 6:07 pmJake: Remember – according to your book, the Devil is the father of the lie. Who’s yer’ daddy?
March 27th, 2007 at 6:09 pmJake you did make a rape joke, stop floating up that river of denial.
And Daryll is a parody, he never argues with that statement.
March 27th, 2007 at 6:09 pmAnyone else (NOT on the “Ignore List” for personal attacks and/or refusing to answer my questions) have any questions for me?
March 27th, 2007 at 6:14 pmIts the “secret” plan that offends me. If GWB really thinks this is something proper, why doesn’t he do it honestly and openly? Tell everyone what he wants to do and why he wants to do it and ask for their support. This is suppose to be government by the people, not by some small secretive cabal.
So if GWB has a secret plan, he knows that its dishonest and unpopular and inherently unethical and deceitful.
Oh Jake: Do you believe in Democracy?
March 27th, 2007 at 6:15 pmWhy is it when Jake is forced to see the truth, every single time, he reverts back to his, “Those not on the ignore list” crap?
We are ALL on the Ignore List.
Face up to your problems and transgressions.
(or else you won’t go hang out in the clouds with a little harp.)
March 27th, 2007 at 6:18 pmSkeptic:
Exactly. Well put.
March 27th, 2007 at 6:19 pmI am obeying God’s “Wordâ€, unbelievable.
Comment by Jake — March 27, 2007 @ 5:48 pm
Prove there’s a god, prove he wrote the Bible and prove you obey it…
March 27th, 2007 at 6:22 pmAnd Daryll is a parody, he never argues with that statement.
Comment by ForTruth — March 27, 2007 @ 6:09 pm
I don’t think he knows what the word ‘parody’ means…
March 27th, 2007 at 6:23 pmJake, a paid operative?
March 27th, 2007 at 6:27 pmEd Rockstein:
No. You?
skeptic:
Yes. Do you believe in a Republic?
March 27th, 2007 at 6:33 pmJake sez:
You sniveling little piece of dog sh!t!
You’re actually going to sit there and deny typing these words?
So…you’re gonna deny saying that? Maybe try to claim it was just ‘fake Jake’ too?
No one’s buying it, Jake. You leave a trail of lies behind you, like a slug’s slime trail.
If I saw you in public, I’d consider spitting in your face, but you’re not worth the saliva I’d have to expend.
March 27th, 2007 at 6:34 pmJake’s “ignore list” sounded very funny when I first read about it. But now it looks very juvenile, like the early part of elementary school. If he doesn’t want to be part of a raucus and unstructured and often petty debating society, why is he here? Everyone is annoying part of the time, but this just has to be endured, not keep little lists of trivial grudges.
March 27th, 2007 at 6:36 pmI believe he said,
“Lay back and enjoy it.â€
Sicko. Perv.
Comment by trueblue
Sounds like he’s making a joke about rape to me. F*cking loser.
Ah, I see TMM has the exact quote. Thanks, TMM!
March 27th, 2007 at 6:38 pmWhat do you mean by believe? By Democracy I believe that the government should tell the people what it is doing, why it is doing something and only act with its approval. The moral power in the government should come from the people. It is inherently dishonest to campaign for the environment, and then turn around and gut the environmental legislation. It is a betrayal of the pact between the politician and the electorate.
Yes, this is an ideal case but its the ideals that I am talking about. Our “Republic” was done as an inherent compromise between groups and factionsm, rights and priviledges, with a bow toward pragmatism. “Pure Democracies” are nearly too unwieldy to work and can often trample on regional demands and individual privileges.
So Jake, where do your ideals lead you?
March 27th, 2007 at 6:41 pmI’m sure they’re trying to do this as quietly as possible while so much else is going on.
March 27th, 2007 at 6:43 pmskeptic:
My conservative ideals lead me to believe (think is another word if you are having a problem with it) that a) the Republic is much better suited for governing 300 million citizens, and b) if someone cannot debate without resorting to personal attacks against me or refusing to answer my question, then I extend them the same.
March 27th, 2007 at 7:04 pmThanks, TMM.
I think we should all copy and paste it in a file, and greet Jake with it every time the slimeball posts something here.
How dare you say we are personally attacking you when it is your own words.
Explain yourself.
Ask forgiveness.
Do something worthwhile.
March 27th, 2007 at 7:12 pmDon’t mention it, Zooey.
Between his denying he claimed to be both Catholic and Baptist, making the (false) claim that I’m on The List â„¢ because I failed to answer a question he asked (the truth being that he deliberately evaded my question, and justified it by claiming I was on The List â„¢…details here), and now, trying to rewrite history and deny making a joke about rape, I’ve just had it with his lying ass. I’m fed up with his bullsh!t. Period.
March 27th, 2007 at 7:16 pmAs the lurkers can see, I did not make a joke about real rape — anyone else (NOT on the “Ignore List†for personal attacks and/or refusing to answer my questions) have any questions for me?
March 27th, 2007 at 7:20 pmTMM,
You always say things so well. :)
My standard “F*ck you!” isn’t always succinct. :D
March 27th, 2007 at 7:24 pmAs the lurkers can see, I did not make a joke about real rape — anyone else (NOT on the “Ignore List†for personal attacks and/or refusing to answer my questions) have any questions for me?
Comment by Jake
F*cker, you made a joke about rape. Rape is real. Just ask anyone who’s been raped.
March 27th, 2007 at 7:25 pmFor the record, Gerald Gibson Jr ., made the comment on that thread that Iraq was being “raped” — I was responding to that, not making a joke about real rape — if anyone else (NOT on the “Ignore List†for personal attacks and/or refusing to answer my questions) has a question whether my response was about real rape, please let me know?
March 27th, 2007 at 7:34 pmCHIMPya IS SHOWN IN ONE CARTOON AS A GRINNING GHOUL SETTING FIRE TO THE WHOLE EARTH AND ITS ECOSYSTEMS WITH A GAS PUMP EMITTING FLAMING GASOLINE—-I THINK IT IS ONLY FAIR TO SHOW A PISSED-OFF MAGNA MATER, MOTHER NATURE/EARTH RETURNING THE FAVOUR BY SETTING CHIMPya, Bushland Uber Allies and THE trolls of THE BLOGOSPHERE ON FIRE AND BURNING THEM INTO ASHES—–A PLEASANT SIGHT AND A PLEASANT THOUGHT—–ONE WHICH IS COMING TRUE EVEN AS I SPEAK AND MY GEAS-CURSE AND KARMA CATCH UP WITH MONKEY-BOY CHIMPya, Bushland Uber Allies and its SUPPORTIVE trolls OF THE BLOGOSPHERE—-YOU MISERABLE F*CKERS ARE GOING TO GET WHAT’S COMING TO YA ALL!!!!!!! SO MOTE IT BE!!!!!
March 27th, 2007 at 7:35 pmDitto Zooey’s sentiments, you scum!
You did.
You did.
Have a daughter? Why not read that sentence to her and see how she likes it!
You are a disgusting excuse for a human being.
I literally feel sick to my stomach.
March 27th, 2007 at 7:36 pmJake sez:
Now isn’t that interesting? Jake attempts to lie about making a rape joke, but when confronted with his own words, he tries to justify it by slipping in the qualifier ‘real’.
When forced to admit the truth, Jake is like a worm writhing on a hot sidewalk.
I don’t have any questions for you, you lump of ambulatory phlegm. So you can take your list and jam it in sideways.
March 27th, 2007 at 7:39 pmJust in case you were thinking of taking me off ‘the List’, Jake, your rape joke makes you a sick piece of filth. And the ‘fascist bastard’ comment stands….
March 27th, 2007 at 7:59 pmI literally feel sick to my stomach.
Comment by trueblue
Jake is a sick f*ck.
March 27th, 2007 at 8:01 pmI wish there was a rapture and all you bible thumping fools were disappeared, it would be the happiest day of my life.
Comment by ckerst — March 27, 2007 @ 5:12 pm
Ditto…
Comment by unbelievable — March 27, 2007 @ 5:16 pm
That’s three of us.
Comment by shane — March 27, 2007 @ 5:51 pm
Just make sure you don’t tailgate the Lexus’s with the fish’s or ‘God Bless Americas’ too close, Shane.
March 27th, 2007 at 8:02 pm…if anyone else (NOT on the “Ignore List†for personal attacks and/or refusing to answer my questions) has a question whether my response was about real rape, please let me know?
Comment by Jake
No, if anyone has any questions about what that f*cker said, ask me, trueblue, or TMM. The f*cker doesn’t know what real rape is.
March 27th, 2007 at 8:03 pmA scientific truism: if we kill off too many of the creatures on God’s Earth, we’ll be next. It’s actually suicide.
March 27th, 2007 at 8:32 pmFor those who say that we have dominion over the Earth and can do as we want, please read the rest of your Bible.
The earth is the LORD’s, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein.
God may let us do what we want, but it is still his and we have to use it responsibly.
And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
Again, we can use it but we need to take care of it.
You can’t just quote the passages you like and ignore the rest.
March 27th, 2007 at 8:50 pmBlu:
If you think I am “ignor[ing] the rest” please cite chapter and verse.
March 27th, 2007 at 9:15 pmThe ESA is one of the most impressive pieces of work that has come out of DC in appr. 40 years. The worlds ecosystems are unraveling at the seams. When the honey bee, which is declining at an extremely alarming rate, is extinct, humankind will be starving. Someone please tell Jake-off to read A. Einstien’s remark on the lowly honey bee. But he won’t be hungry, he will continue to eat the feces he continuously spreads on this thread.
March 27th, 2007 at 10:02 pmrms,
SNAP!!
March 27th, 2007 at 10:37 pmIf you think I am “ignor[ing] the rest†please cite chapter and verse.
Comment by Jake — March 27, 2007 @ 9:15 pm
If you think we *care* who you ignore or don’t, you’re smoking crack again Rushed Limp*ss.
March 28th, 2007 at 2:58 amJake:
The passages I quoted were from Psalm 24:1 and Genesis 2:15. My point is just that even though God gave us dominion over most everything on Earth, He doesn’t want us to be wasteful with it. As good stewards, we should use the resources given to us wisely, and there are passages in the Bible to support that notion.
You could also look to Proverbs 12:10 which states “A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast.” That continues to support the notion of good stewardship.
March 28th, 2007 at 8:34 am[...] environmental groups leaked the Interior Department’s secret plan to “gut” the Endangered Species Act yesterday, senators vowed to block the proposed [...]
March 28th, 2007 at 9:03 amJake;
I don’t think you have gotten my point. In an ideal democracy the leadership does not TRY to fool the electorate, or make decisions that the majority oppose. I believe ( think this is correct, valid ) in a Democratic ideal. I believe that the moral authority comes when campaigning is honest — the politician can HONESTLY say that she/he was elected because the voters believed in the same issues. This is invalidated when people campaign on lies. Jake, do you believe in a Democratic ideal?
A Republic is not an ideal — its a political compromise made by a committee. Ours works, but how many other Republics do you know of?
I maintain that I respect Democracy and GWB and the WhiteHouse mob does not. They are working on deceit and falsity without even thinking of working for all of the citizens of the U.S.
March 28th, 2007 at 9:12 amI know jake-the-ass just plays – not very well – at being a right-wing shill, poking himself in the eye with a stick so people pay attention to him. Hell he’s probably a Liberal who just gets more notice by acting like an idiot (there was a kid in my 3rd grade class like that).
Anyway, I notice this is a theme among the religious right, that since God gave us “dominion” over the earth we can shit all over it. Of course this conveniently skips over the rest of the text and the logic of the Bible, much like the rest of the Right’s talking point.
March 28th, 2007 at 9:39 amTo everyone,
I’ve been reading Think Progress articles and posts for many pleasurable months without commenting. I’m posting a comment now because I find it appalling that so many individuals–many of whom post on this site regularly and offer thoughtful and reasoned commentary–are willing to give Jake their attention and indulge him in his attempts to monopolize threads and his intellectually empty, inflammatory posts. He strikes me as an extremely dogmatic, unreflective, uncritical individual, thus lacking intellectual integrity, one of the cardinal values of Western civilization. He is unwilling–due to character defects, lack of education or both–to make even a feeble attempt to impartially examine the issues and dispassionately weigh the opinions and arguments of his opponents. He will probably dismiss what I say as a “personal attack” because he is unable to understand that calling attention to an individual’s lack of intellectual integrity, as I have done, is not a personal attack (any more than it is a personal attack to criticize as immoral someone who has lied or stolen, for moral responsibility is another cardinal value of our civilization), but merely an observation that he fails to function as an intellectually responsible individual. I don’t know how old he is, but he strikes me as even more intellectually irresponsible than many of my students. (I teach philosophy at Columbia and Rutgers.) I’m hoping that my post will convince more Think Progress readers to ignore him completely and not post anything whatever in response to his posts. Since he began to post his comments and others have attempted in vain to point out his sophistries, fallacious reasoning, ignorance, refusal to concede when he’s lost the argument and the like, it’s become more difficult for me to find the intellectually substantial posts which make this site so worthwhile. Thank you.
March 28th, 2007 at 10:05 amI’m hoping that my post will convince more Think Progress readers to ignore him completely and not post anything whatever in response to his posts.
Sorry Mark, but as an Educator myself, I think it is imperative to point out his fallacious arguments – as ignoring the spead of misinformation in the past has led to a dumbing down of our society.
I cannot speak for Judd who founded TP, but being a counter-voice to the neocon fallacies has become a large part of this site’s culture. Albeit, sometimes the replies do get beyond the subject content…
Since he began to post his comments and others have attempted in vain to point out his sophistries, fallacious reasoning, ignorance, refusal to concede when he’s lost the argument and the like, it’s become more difficult for me to find the intellectually substantial posts which make this site so worthwhile. Thank you.
Comment by Mark Colby — March 28, 2007 @ 10:05 am
The ‘issue’ with having Free Speech in our country is that anyone can say anything. Personally, I’d rather scroll past the posts of commenters I don’t respect than give up that right of free speech. The inconvenience isn’t that problematic to many of us, because we’ve considered the consequences. I think Jake is ignorant, but he has every right to express his opinions… And then be shown why they are so egregious.
While I will give you the point that comments to Jake do reach the school yard level more than they should, I cannot support your request to ignore him entirely. Not because I think I can educate him, but largely because I know that there are people who read comments form this site who may have an epiphany of their own, as a result of teh rebuttals to the misinformation they’ve been told. I know from personal experience. I was raised in a religious Right family, and it was because of the liberals who were willing to refute misinformation from the Right that I had my own awakening. By countering people like Jake and Daryll, I think we help prevent the spread of their fallacies. And I will continue to respond to them with truth…
March 28th, 2007 at 11:58 amDON’T feed the trolls, people. And don’t give them any protection- they aren’t endangered, unless you consider that they’re probably too stupid to dress themselves in the morning.
March 28th, 2007 at 12:21 pmunbelievable,
As an instructor of critical reasoning, I certainly agree with you that fallacies and other intellectual errors must be pointed out whenever committed. About freedom of speech, I never suggested that Jake has no right to express his opinions, and I certainly agree that refutations of his errors help to enlighten the public. He has the right to post, but others have the equal right to ignore him, as J.S. Mill points out about freedom of thought and opinion in On Liberty. You’re right that the “schoolyard level” to which some people have succumbed in replying to him is unfortunate. Irritation with it partly motivated my first post.
I realize that the price for genuine intellectual discourse is that we must put up with the irresponsible Jakes of the world for the sake of improving the world. It would certainly help if everyone who replies to him would conduct themselves in a more civilized, less “schoolyard” manner and, most of all, not bait him so much, which just gives his flaws of character and intellect an excuse for more thoughtless, self-indulgent posts.
Perhaps another way to make the discussions less Jake-centered is if replies to his specific posts were addressed not to him in particular but generically, e.g., “To anyone who believes that …” This might be a way to mitigate his narcissistic need for attention and teach him some impartiality and objectivity as well. It would certainly elevate the level of discussion on these threads.
March 28th, 2007 at 12:27 pm[...] habitat, and “dilute legal barriers that protect habitat from sprawl, logging or mining.†– ThinkProgress anti-hero: environment, government, endangered species act, secret. [...]
March 29th, 2007 at 7:09 am[...] Â You should totally want to kick the current administration in the balls for this one. [...]
March 29th, 2007 at 1:47 pm[...] Bush administration’s plan to ‘gut’ Endangered Species Act [...]
March 29th, 2007 at 8:08 pm