As an instructor of critical reasoning, I certainly agree with you that fallacies and other intellectual errors must be pointed out whenever committed. About freedom of speech, I never suggested that Jake has no right to express his opinions, and I certainly agree that refutations of his errors help to enlighten the public. He has the right to post, but others have the equal right to ignore him, as J.S. Mill points out about freedom of thought and opinion in On Liberty. You’re right that the “schoolyard level” to which some people have succumbed in replying to him is unfortunate. Irritation with it partly motivated my first post.

I realize that the price for genuine intellectual discourse is that we must put up with the irresponsible Jakes of the world for the sake of improving the world. It would certainly help if everyone who replies to him would conduct themselves in a more civilized, less “schoolyard” manner and, most of all, not bait him so much, which just gives his flaws of character and intellect an excuse for more thoughtless, self-indulgent posts.

Perhaps another way to make the discussions less Jake-centered is if replies to his specific posts were addressed not to him in particular but generically, e.g., “To anyone who believes that …” This might be a way to mitigate his narcissistic need for attention and teach him some impartiality and objectivity as well. It would certainly elevate the level of discussion on these threads.

Sorry Mark, but as an Educator myself, I think it is imperative to point out his fallacious arguments – as ignoring the spead of misinformation in the past has led to a dumbing down of our society.

I cannot speak for Judd who founded TP, but being a counter-voice to the neocon fallacies has become a large part of this site’s culture. Albeit, sometimes the replies do get beyond the subject content…

Since he began to post his comments and others have attempted in vain to point out his sophistries, fallacious reasoning, ignorance, refusal to concede when he’s lost the argument and the like, it’s become more difficult for me to find the intellectually substantial posts which make this site so worthwhile. Thank you.
Comment by Mark Colby — March 28, 2007 @ 10:05 am

The ‘issue’ with having Free Speech in our country is that anyone can say anything. Personally, I’d rather scroll past the posts of commenters I don’t respect than give up that right of free speech. The inconvenience isn’t that problematic to many of us, because we’ve considered the consequences. I think Jake is ignorant, but he has every right to express his opinions… And then be shown why they are so egregious.

While I will give you the point that comments to Jake do reach the school yard level more than they should, I cannot support your request to ignore him entirely. Not because I think I can educate him, but largely because I know that there are people who read comments form this site who may have an epiphany of their own, as a result of teh rebuttals to the misinformation they’ve been told. I know from personal experience. I was raised in a religious Right family, and it was because of the liberals who were willing to refute misinformation from the Right that I had my own awakening. By countering people like Jake and Daryll, I think we help prevent the spread of their fallacies. And I will continue to respond to them with truth…

I’ve been reading Think Progress articles and posts for many pleasurable months without commenting. I’m posting a comment now because I find it appalling that so many individuals–many of whom post on this site regularly and offer thoughtful and reasoned commentary–are willing to give Jake their attention and indulge him in his attempts to monopolize threads and his intellectually empty, inflammatory posts. He strikes me as an extremely dogmatic, unreflective, uncritical individual, thus lacking intellectual integrity, one of the cardinal values of Western civilization. He is unwilling–due to character defects, lack of education or both–to make even a feeble attempt to impartially examine the issues and dispassionately weigh the opinions and arguments of his opponents. He will probably dismiss what I say as a “personal attack” because he is unable to understand that calling attention to an individual’s lack of intellectual integrity, as I have done, is not a personal attack (any more than it is a personal attack to criticize as immoral someone who has lied or stolen, for moral responsibility is another cardinal value of our civilization), but merely an observation that he fails to function as an intellectually responsible individual. I don’t know how old he is, but he strikes me as even more intellectually irresponsible than many of my students. (I teach philosophy at Columbia and Rutgers.) I’m hoping that my post will convince more Think Progress readers to ignore him completely and not post anything whatever in response to his posts. Since he began to post his comments and others have attempted in vain to point out his sophistries, fallacious reasoning, ignorance, refusal to concede when he’s lost the argument and the like, it’s become more difficult for me to find the intellectually substantial posts which make this site so worthwhile. Thank you.

Anyway, I notice this is a theme among the religious right, that since God gave us “dominion” over the earth we can shit all over it. Of course this conveniently skips over the rest of the text and the logic of the Bible, much like the rest of the Right’s talking point.

A Republic is not an ideal — its a political compromise made by a committee. Ours works, but how many other Republics do you know of?

I maintain that I respect Democracy and GWB and the WhiteHouse mob does not. They are working on deceit and falsity without even thinking of working for all of the citizens of the U.S.

The passages I quoted were from Psalm 24:1 and Genesis 2:15. My point is just that even though God gave us dominion over most everything on Earth, He doesn’t want us to be wasteful with it. As good stewards, we should use the resources given to us wisely, and there are passages in the Bible to support that notion.

You could also look to Proverbs 12:10 which states “A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast.” That continues to support the notion of good stewardship.

If you think we *care* who you ignore or don’t, you’re smoking crack again Rushed Limp*ss.

SNAP!!

If you think I am “ignor[ing] the rest” please cite chapter and verse.

The earth is the LORD’s, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein.

God may let us do what we want, but it is still his and we have to use it responsibly.

And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

Again, we can use it but we need to take care of it.

You can’t just quote the passages you like and ignore the rest.

No, if anyone has any questions about what that f*cker said, ask me, trueblue, or TMM. The f*cker doesn’t know what real rape is.

Comment by shane — March 27, 2007 @ 5:51 pm

Just make sure you don’t tailgate the Lexus’s with the fish’s or ‘God Bless Americas’ too close, Shane.

Jake is a sick f*ck.