ThinkFast: March 28, 2007
ThinkFast: March 28, 2007
“The population is in despair,” retired Gen. Barry McCaffrey wrote in an assessment on the situation in Iraq, based on a recent round of meetings there with Gen. David H. Petraeus and 16 other senior U.S. commanders. “Life in many of the urban areas is now desperate.” McCaffrey was scheduled to brief White House officials on his findings yesterday.
“The Army’s new acting surgeon general said Tuesday she is concerned about long-term morale because the military lacks money to hire enough nurses and mental health specialists to treat thousands of troops coming home from Iraq and Afghanistan.”
Donald Rumsfeld “cannot be tried on allegations of torture in overseas military prisons, a federal judge said Tuesday in a case he described as ‘lamentable.’” The district judge “threw out a lawsuit brought on behalf of nine former prisoners in Iraq and Afghanistan,” arguing Rumsfeld “cannot be held personally responsible for actions taken in connection with his government job.”
After environmental groups leaked the Interior Department’s secret plan to “gut” the Endangered Species Act yesterday, senators vowed to block the proposed changes through appropriations legislation.
“Hundreds of Iraqis detained in the current security crackdown have been crammed into two prisons run by the Defense Ministry that were designed to hold only dozens of people.”
$100 million. The amount of the penalty the leading manufacturer of night vision gear will pay for sending classified materials overseas.
“Federal and state lawmakers have launched a new drive to pass the Equal Rights Amendment,” which “would subject legal claims of gender discrimination to the same strict scrutiny given by courts to allegations of racial discrimination.” The constitutional amendment was three states short of passage in 1982.
“The House on Tuesday approved a two-year extension [through 2010] of a program offering tax credits for construction of low-income housing in areas hit by Hurricane Katrina in 2005.”
And finally: Angelina Jolie’s father, actor Jon Voight, was yesterday spotted “putting in a good word for meticulous oral hygiene.” Waiting for a meeting in the Hart Senate office building, Voight engaged in a “five-minute dental-flossing session.” “He was really digging in there,” one witness noted. “Like some people pace and talk on their cell phones, he was pacing and flossing.”
What did we miss? Let us know in the comments section.
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Jon Voight, of Costanza’s used-car fame, is the dad of Jolie? Wow…
March 28th, 2007 at 9:10 amI hope the Senate manages to protect the animals from the Right Wing.
March 28th, 2007 at 9:14 ambased on a recent round of meetings there with Gen. David H. Petraeus and 16 other senior U.S. commanders
When has this administration EVER listened to anything actual experts had to say?
March 28th, 2007 at 9:16 am#3 hil
When what the experts say supports their reality.
March 28th, 2007 at 9:18 amLife in many of the urban areas is now desperate.â€
McCain, walking with Baghdad Bob Gates, remarked how lovely the spring landscape looked in the city this morning. John quietly remarked that he never knew how beautiful KABOOM!!
March 28th, 2007 at 9:20 amWar is f***ing depressing news with all sides only losing.
http://www.tekno-world.blogspot.com
March 28th, 2007 at 9:23 amre. Rumsfeld and his case being tossed.
While I disagree with people being unaccountable for their actions while they are in office, such as the Duke prosecutor fiasco, there has to be some accountability in these issues.
If it could be proven that Rumsfeld authorized the use of torture, a crime against human rights, and isn’t accountable when does this end?
Could he have ordered the execution of someone (ultimate form of torture) without a trial and still not be held accountable?
March 28th, 2007 at 9:26 amarguing Rumsfeld “cannot be held personally responsible for actions taken in connection with his government job.â€
Which is why these goons do what they do, no consequences. Since rummy felt it necessary to outsource torture because American law couldn’t deal with these prisoners ‘effectively’, perhaps we should outsource his prosecution to the world court.
March 28th, 2007 at 9:28 amfrom INN:
*****”More than 50,000 Iraqis have been arrested by US and Iraqi forces in the past four weeks as part of the joint U.S.-Iraqi military campaign to subdue Baghdad. Overall ,more than 100,000 Iraqis
are currently behind bars. To hold those arrested U.S. troops and the Iraqi government are investing heavily in the construction of new prisons. A parliamentary investigation commission has found that U.S. troops alone now detain more than 61,000 Iraqis, a figure which is expected to grow. Iraqis in U.S. custody can be held without trial. U.S. troops can detain Iraqis indefinitely merely on suspicion, and deny them access to lawyers .
Since emergency rule was imposed, the Iraqi judicial system cannot question even what the Iraqi security forces do, or who they arrest.
As has been documented, detainees are often subjected to torture. The detainees are denied visits by family members or relatives and usually
have no means to get in touch with them.U.S. troops do not inform relatives of the Iraqis they capture. Iraqi families searching for missing relatives often do not know if their loved ones have been arrested or killed.”
(I expect to hear about concentration camps next.)
March 28th, 2007 at 9:28 amITT gets a $100 million penalty for sending classified material overseas. But not really.
Half of this they get to use as new product development which will probably make them more money back.
So they break the rules and get a guarantee we’ll keep doing business with them. No mention of officers being helt accountable at all. Wonder if they’re Republicans?
March 28th, 2007 at 9:30 amRumsfeld and his case being tossed.
Comment by Dogjudge — March 28, 2007 @ 9:26 am
Do you have a link for that?
March 28th, 2007 at 9:30 am#10 shane, yes they are Republicans. One of my close relatives works for ITT(fluid technology). They told me that several memos were sent out before the 2004 elections to the staff and workers nudging them to vote (R) due to the fact that much of their business is with the Nuclear Ind. and Pharm. Ind, more or less “if you know what is good for you”………and by the way they are currenty outsourcing anything they can to China and India at a dizzying pace.
March 28th, 2007 at 9:41 amskeptic — then you grant the right of other Senators to block Gore’s concert at the Capitol, right?
March 28th, 2007 at 9:42 amWe should be focusing on the war against Iran today. We have built up our troops overnight. England cut diplomatic ties and is also building up forces. The pentegon even said yesterday that they are looking for a way to bring Iran “to its knees at minimul cost to the USA”. Oil spiked $5 yesterday and it is predicted to spike a whole lot more today. GET READY FOR WAR (unless they wise up and let all these kidnapped sailors go today). Itchy trigger finger Bush looks to be gettting a little to itchy again and the Iranian terrorist leaders are helping him make this decision. I think the whole situation is foolish myself. The Iranians should back down unless they have a death wish. Who would confront Bush militarily at this point? He has proven to not hesitate and attack people for looking at us the wrong way. Now they go and kidnap 15 sailors??? WTF were they thinking?
March 28th, 2007 at 9:44 amthen you grant the right of other Senators to block Gore’s concert at the Capitol, right?
Comment by William
Ahh the Fightin’ Repugs. They know what the hot-button issues really are. Concerts.
After environmental groups leaked the Interior Department’s secret plan to “gut†the Endangered Species Act yesterday, senators vowed to block the proposed changes through appropriations legislation.
Of the last few presidents, Bush has added the least amount to the endangered species list at 58. Were these Republic Senators?
March 28th, 2007 at 9:54 am“Like some people pace and talk on their cell phones, he was pacing and flossing.â€
I’m at a loss to explain why anyone would care enough to mention this, and doubly flummoxed by the decision to quote it. Please, on behalf of the Institution for Prevention of the Internet Being Flooded with Useless Crap, think about the children.
March 28th, 2007 at 9:54 amYeah, we get into a war with Iran and we’ll likely get a stomping, not because the Iranian military is better, but because we are stretched already and it will cause an uproar. You can bet your bottom that ‘friendlies’ such as Musharef in Pakistan will get overthrown, violence will go up in Iraq, Israel will be targeted even more.
March 28th, 2007 at 9:55 amWe should not be surprised that Iran went after coalition forces in those waters. They’ve been contested since before we came. Plus, with the Iranian hostages we are holding and the captured/defected high ranking Iranian, they likely feel they are just doing the same to us as we are to them.
If war starts with Iran, the conflict will widen, and our economy will be under threat of collapse. Of course that doesn’t matter to Bush, all he wants is to show he is tough. Like most reactionaries on the right, he is willing to destroy others to cover up his insecurity over his manhood.
The Iranians should back down unless they have a death wish.
Comment by Roger_Roger #14
The days of people living on their knees while the “Great White Father”…
…runs rough shod over their sovereignty and dignity…
…are long past…
…better to die on ones feet (fighting Satan)…
… than on one’s knees (serving him)…
March 28th, 2007 at 9:55 amshane,
The story is about an unscrupulous corporation screwing the American people for profit, of course they have Republic666an protection, the Republic666ans won out over the mob, so they provide the protection.
March 28th, 2007 at 9:55 amAshenShard,
Iran has mercenary groups in Central America believe it or not. If we attack it will likely get ugly here in America. But I’m sure the Administration doesn’t care because Dubya is God’s man, God help the rest of us.
March 28th, 2007 at 9:58 amSo the Iranians say the brits were in their water, the brits say they were in international waters.
Our govt’s told us Saddam had WMD, looking to buy yellow cake, the oil will pay for the war, and so on, and so on….
This one, I’m believing Iran, I don’t really think they are that stupid to “capture” Brits to start a war they would lose.
March 28th, 2007 at 10:01 amThe pentegon even said yesterday that they are looking for a way to bring Iran “to its knees at minimul cost to the USAâ€.
Itchy trigger finger Bush looks to be gettting a little to itchy again and the Iranian terrorist leaders are helping him make this decision. I think the whole situation is foolish myself. Now they go and kidnap 15 sailors??? WTF were they thinking?
Comment by Roger_Roger
GET READY FOR WAR (unless they wise up and let all these kidnapped sailors go today).
Why would the US start a war with Iran when they are holding British soldiers? Seems pretty insane to me.
The Iranians should back down unless they have a death wish. Who would confront Bush militarily at this point? He has proven to not hesitate and attack people for looking at us the wrong way.
I don’t think you understand. Iran is not Iraq. If you remember they conducted war games not too long ago before the second fleet arrived. They have prepared for this and US losses will be high. And remember it’s George’s call. HE coesn’t have to do it. He has no reason to do it. Sanctions were just put into place.
March 28th, 2007 at 10:02 am#11
Huh?
How about the third item in the article?
March 28th, 2007 at 10:04 amDonald Rumsfeld “cannot be tried on allegations of torture in overseas military prisons, a federal judge said Tuesday in a case he described as ‘lamentable.’†The district judge “threw out a lawsuit brought on behalf of nine former prisoners in Iraq and Afghanistan,†arguing Rumsfeld “cannot be held personally responsible for actions taken in connection with his government job.â€
What a wonderful message to send to the rest of the world!
Rummy can’t be held accountable…why?
If he was only “following orders”, that defense has already been tried. It didn’t go over so well, as I recall.
If he was the one giving the orders, he’s even more culpable.
Well, there’s no way I’m going overseas ever again. Thanks, Justice Hogan, for doing your part to make us the most universally reviled nation on the planet.
March 28th, 2007 at 10:05 amMcCain, appearing on NBC’s “Today” show Wednesday from Orlando, Fla., said the war “was badly mismanaged. But there are signs of progress everywhere. … I am confident that given the opportunity, we can have success. The consequences of failure are catastrophic because if we come home, bin Laden and Zarqawi, they are going to follow us.”
Apparently Bin Laden and Zarqawi don’t have a map. That’s it for me with McCain, what a retard
March 28th, 2007 at 10:05 amCatchy name don’t ya think?
“Theater Iran Near Term” (TIRANNT)
Code named by US military planners as TIRANNT, “Theater Iran Near Term” has identified several thousand targets inside Iran as part of a “Shock and Awe” Blitzkrieg, which is now in its final planning stages.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=CHO20070221&articleId=4888
March 28th, 2007 at 10:05 amcurrenty outsourcing anything they can to China and India at a dizzying pace.
Comment by . — March 28, 2007 @ 9:41 am
Ggrrghhh – that’s me growling. First though they send classified information and then the work. But we’re not worrying about China, apparently they don’t have any oil, just Iraq and Iran.
March 28th, 2007 at 10:07 ambest/worst part about TIRANNT is:(as most here know)
“In early 2003, even as U.S. forces were on the brink of war with Iraq, the Army had already begun conducting an analysis for a full-scale war with Iran.”
March 28th, 2007 at 10:13 am…so remember that when the MSM tells you about the 15 Britsh detainees/hostages.
skeptic — then you grant the right of other Senators to block Gore’s concert at the Capitol, right?
Comment by William — March 28, 2007 @ 9:42 am
HI JAKE.
March 28th, 2007 at 10:14 am“Code named by US military planners as TIRANNT, “Theater Iran Near Term†has identified several thousand targets inside Iran as part of a “Shock and Awe†Blitzkrieg, which is now in its final planning stages. ”
I’m personally in favor of it. I want this administration to provoke a war with everybody they can, and in short order before Dubya leaves office. I want the American people so sick of republic666an’s wars that they wont soon forget who got us in this shape.
March 28th, 2007 at 10:16 amComment by . — March 28, 2007 @ 10:05 am
Thanks for the info. Just more confirmation that something very big is in the works.
March 28th, 2007 at 10:19 amComment by shane — March 28, 2007 @ 10:14 am
BWAH HA HA HA! Good catch, shane!
Apparently, when Shakey told us yesterday that he wouldn’t be in today, he meant that he wouldn’t be in under his regular name. Don’t blame him…the wheels have been coming off Shakey’s little red wagon for a while now, and yesterday was especially brutal for him.
March 28th, 2007 at 10:23 amI have not read the RUmmy case, but was it tossed out on jurisdictional issues? i.e. is this an issue for international law and should be brought to the Hauge?
March 28th, 2007 at 10:29 am….”the population is in despair” but according to Dipdong McCain, the streets in Baghdad are “safe to walk around on”…yeah, right, ding-a-ling!! What planet is McCain living on?? Uranus!! He’s nothing more than a typical Bushie Thug!
March 28th, 2007 at 10:33 am“Shakey told us yesterday that he wouldn’t be in today”
he’s at a southern baptist catholic mass service revival
March 28th, 2007 at 10:33 amI’d hate to be Rummy these days! No doubt he, like Dumbya, is aging well before his years! A good facelift might net him some public time; otherwise, I wouldn’t want to be in his shoes after what he’s done to Iraq and this country as well.
March 28th, 2007 at 10:34 amNow they go and kidnap 15 sailors??? WTF were they thinking?
Comment by Roger_Roger — March 28, 2007 @ 9:44 am
R2 those are British soldiers not American. But since Bush is already set to invade Iran I guess that’s as good an excuse as any.
March 28th, 2007 at 10:35 amComment by TripMaster Monkey — March 28, 2007 @ 10:23 am
Do you suppose he tried to stay away but couldn’t help himself? Weak little pansy that he is.
March 28th, 2007 at 10:38 amThis doesn’t mean that Rummy is getting off scott-free – Rummy can and probably will still be tried by an international court or military tribunal for his war crimes. Just like The Chimp will be tried for the war crimes involved in the killing of innocent Iraqis in an illegal war intentionally based on lies; the slaughter of our own “innocents” now numbering 3200 and rising every day; as well as those involved in the collapse of buildings in NYC on 911. It’s all coming down the pike….the dots are being connected…..and TheChimp’s day in court is not far off!
March 28th, 2007 at 10:38 amThe Chimp needs to pay for every single crime he’s committed and the people will not rest until justice is served.
#36 I don’t believe it for a moment! Just as GB was “complicit” in Bush’s scheme to invade Iraq, these two thugs are working in tandem. Of course, it can’t be the US again and now has to involved GB instead. Of course, Blair and Bush are in cahoots on this. It was the Downing Street Memo on Iraq – what shall we call this piece of propaganda??
March 28th, 2007 at 10:40 amskeptic — then you grant the right of other Senators to block Gore’s concert at the Capitol, right?
Comment by William — March 28, 2007 @ 9:42 am
I don’t see the relevance to my earlier post. I don’t know what the rules are for having a concert or other public events on Capitol grounds. If it complies with ESTABLISHED rules, surely Gore should be allowed his concert, if not then not. A concert shouldn’t be banned due to political or personal animosity by a Senator or group of Senators. We are trying for rule of law, not rule of tin-plated dictators. Oh I don’t approve of tin-plated tyrants of any party or political affiliation.
March 28th, 2007 at 10:42 amDonald Rumsfeld “cannot be tried on allegations….
Saddam and other government officials were hanged by the Iraqi government for the crimes they committed.
March 28th, 2007 at 10:46 amThey weren’t immune.
So is it that Rummy ordered torture of foreign nationals only? What about Padilla?
McCaffrey says the population in Iraq is in despair — this morning Bush is touting how much progress is being made and shopkeepers are opening.
March 28th, 2007 at 10:49 amThe cattlemen are applauding.
skeptic sez:
That’s because there is no relevance. “William” is attempting to derail the point you were making. It’s a standard tactic of most trolls, and a preferred tactic of one particular troll who, coincidentally, doesn’t seem to be present today.
March 28th, 2007 at 10:49 amthe military lacks money to hire enough nurses and mental health specialists to treat thousands of troops coming home
Now see this is an easy fix.
March 28th, 2007 at 10:56 amBring all the troops home now and use the money to help them get on with their lives.
TripMaster Monkey;
But I didn’t have a point!! I was just applauding the Senate’s action. This was just commentary for the sake of typing.
Do you think that William is just a troll clone?
March 28th, 2007 at 10:57 amDonald Rumsfeld “cannot be tried on allegations of torture in overseas military prisons
I guess Rummy will have to be tried in the Hague, or in the court of public opionion.
Isn’t there a rowdy roadhouse bar named Public Opinion somewhere in east Texas?
March 28th, 2007 at 10:57 amRummy better not set foot inside there.
Think Progress, the ITT story is much bigger, and I really think it should be more fully explained IMHO. ITT is a massively large defense contractor that has been caught giving classified, sensitive military information to China, among others. They were ordered to pay a $100 million fine, however, half of that is to go into research and development of night vision equipment for our military. In other words they are still being allowed to handle classified military information and continue to receive military contracts.
March 28th, 2007 at 11:05 amHE coesn’t have to do it. He has no reason to do it. Sanctions were just put into place.
Comment by dlet
Just like every single time.
March 28th, 2007 at 11:24 amNow they go and kidnap 15 sailors??? WTF were they thinking?
Comment by Roger_Roger
Seems to me that those soldiers were really far away from home…traspassing Iranian territory. You wont hear that.
This is from Robert Fisk:
March 28th, 2007 at 11:32 amThirty hours later, I flicked on the television in my Valdosta, Georgia, hotel room and there was a bejewelled lady on Fox TV telling American viewers that if “we†left Iraq, the “jihadists†would come after us. “They want a Caliphate that will take over the world,†she shrieked about a report that two children had deliberately been placed in an Iraqi car bomb which then exploded. She ranted on about how Muslim “jihadists†had been doing this “since the 1970s in Lebanonâ€. It was tosh, of course. Children were never locked into car bombs in Beirut – and there weren’t any “jihadists†around in the Lebanese civil war of the 1970s. But fear had been sown. Now that the House of Representatives is talking about the US withdrawal by August 2008, fear seems to drip off the trees in America.
Good Morning all, ….A good short response by Pelosi was just on CNN…..Check it out, while bull shit is screaming all over the air way’s the Dem’s are responding, all be it slowly at least it is in the proper direction…Heard the fund’s for the troop’s will run out in mid April…I do hope bull shit keep’s up his crap of blaming every one but himself and that the fund’s do run out and the war is ended….
Hug someone you love today, send a thank you note to your senators, plant a flower or tree…Do someting for our world…..Blessings all..Peace
March 28th, 2007 at 11:38 amA very apt comparison . . .
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i213/barhege/cwjmo070326.gif
March 28th, 2007 at 11:45 amHow about the third item in the article?
Comment by Dogjudge — March 28, 2007 @ 10:04 am
Thanks. That item wasn’t up with the very first thinkfast posting and I missed it when I checked back a few minutes later.
March 28th, 2007 at 11:48 amHug someone you love today, send a thank you note to your senators, plant a flower or tree…Do someting for our world…..Blessings all..Peace
Comment by Sharon
Thanks Sharon for reminding me that. I would add tell all the people you love that you love them.
March 28th, 2007 at 11:48 amAre we citizens or politicians?
March 28th, 2007 at 11:50 amComment by Mark — March 28, 2007 @ 10:29 am
One of the prerequisites to an international war crimes tribunal is the failure of the home country to prosecute under domestic laws.
March 28th, 2007 at 11:56 amThank You Juan C. ..I love you all…..Blessings
March 28th, 2007 at 12:10 pmBritain puts pressure on Iran; female sailor may be freed
Yeah equal Rights my left toe. Where is the outrage that she is being treated differently than her male counterparts?
March 28th, 2007 at 12:17 pmI am suspicious of the captured Brits story. Would Iran provoke an international incident? Were the Brits illegally in their territory? Will anyone actually tell the truth?
March 28th, 2007 at 12:17 pmRemember the Maine.
Remember the Gulf of Tonkin.
Is this a pretext to full-scale war?
Or is this Iran playing “double-dog-dare” – or are we?
I am not sure we will learn the truth.
Marie, I agree with you and take it one step further..It is hard for me to believe the Brit’s or our own at this point, given the terrible war monging track record of both…Iran has done nothing but spout a few word’s…The brit’s and our administration has bombed the shit out of every body with oil…Blessings
March 28th, 2007 at 12:24 pmI think Iran is a threat to US and Brit forces. You know, nobody likes a hostile fundamentalist country when you are sending carriers next to their door.
Isnt it possible in this world to occupy a country without neighbor countries messing in? Damn.
March 28th, 2007 at 12:27 pm“Seems to me that those soldiers were really far away from home…traspassing Iranian territory. You wont hear that.” Juan C
Actually, the British sailors were operating pursuant to UN Security Council Resolution 1546 (renewed by UNSC 1723), which authorizes the Royal Navy to patrol Iraqi territorial to hunt for smugglers.
But you won’t hear that….from Juan, anyway.
March 28th, 2007 at 12:30 pmInteresting scale comparison of Baghdad and Los Angeles.
http://www.cockeyed.com/citysize/baghdad_la.html
And you can select ANY US city for comparison, to help you get a good idea of what “securing†Baghdad geographically truly entails.
March 28th, 2007 at 12:37 pmWell Exley, perhap’s I can put this in perspective for you..BTW I don’t give a rat’s ass what reg’s you spout.Here’s my take on this bush/ blare forever war madness….I am peacefuly at home and a tank pull’s up in front of my drive way, then several more pull up and have trained arm’s pointed in my direction..What the hell do you think I am going to do.? I wont bother your pretty mind with my answer, serfice to say there would not be a stand off….Is it at all possible to get negotiation’s with all these countries and bring all those ship’s out of those water’s?. ..Sure it would, but that’s not what bull shit bush want’s….All this madness is bull shit’s making….It can all be brought to an end and save lives with out a lunatick in the black house….The united states is now the world’s worst threat because we have insane people running it……Law’s mean nothing when the people that put bad law’s in place don’t follow them but merely change them to suit their evil purpose on a daily bases…..There can be no respect of a mad man when he respect’s no one else, even his own people…..Evil, greed and war like deed’s only create more…..Blessings….Peace
March 28th, 2007 at 12:48 pmComment by Exley — March 28, 2007 @ 12:30 pm
But, But, But Exley they lie, so whatever any of them says is completely wrong and must involve a huge conspiracy.
Occam’s Razor doesn’t exist on his planet.
March 28th, 2007 at 12:50 pmOccam’s Razor doesn’t exist on his planet.
Comment by Tundra
Huh? They lied, as always. Simple explanation.
March 28th, 2007 at 1:01 pmYeah equal Rights my left toe. Where is the outrage that she is being treated differently than her male counterparts?
Comment by Tundra
If you are so concerned just right the British Embassy that you think that the British Governement should reject any proposal that would not include all the hostages. If they accept the lone female to be released then you have a cause to rally your resentment around.
March 28th, 2007 at 1:06 pmHuh? They lied, as always. Simple explanation.
Yeah well your simple explanation requires GPS and Satellite data.
March 28th, 2007 at 1:09 pmThat’s what you think Occam’s Razor means? BAHAHAA, st*pid dum bass.
Um when did I ever explain Occam’s Razor? I realize how difficult it is for you to comprehend English with your head stuck that far up your 4th point of contact.
To Juan (Which I am guessing you are joining on this) The answer to everything is that Bush/blair Lie, Falsify data, realign satellites, have a team of graphics designers on staff doctoring photos, rearrange several bank accounts, redesign the specs of a ship to change it’s maximum rate of acceleration and top speed all to hold true to the lie that they were in Iraq waters the whole time.
As opposed to the simple answer, Iranian boats entered Iraq waters and took them. Perhaps they were confused, perhaps there was human error, but that is to easy of an answer.
March 28th, 2007 at 1:17 pmYeah well your simple explanation requires GPS and Satellite data.
Comment by Tundra
mmm…yeah, man. *slowly backing away*
March 28th, 2007 at 1:19 pmIt’s my understanding Iran has the tendency to take hostages. Sooooo, don’t get close enough to them to get caught. Seems pretty simple.
March 28th, 2007 at 1:22 pmTundra:
Brits sailors were really far way from home, buddy. You can say whatever you want. Iraq is not Britain nor it is US. Get used to that.
Blair and Bush has already lied a lot!! in the past and they are playing war games near Iran. So, yeah, Brits were taken by the force by Iranians for no good reason. Just like the Israeli soldiers who were kidnapped. Anyway, you keep on believing what you want, I guess it is your right. But last time I checked Iran hasnt invaded a country with the excuse of WMDs.
March 28th, 2007 at 1:23 pmAll thing’s are relative…Peace is just the oposit of the same coin with war on the flip side…Truth is just the opasit of lie’s…..Taking all this into account, war’s pay big buck’s to the select few and many suffer for those few to profit….Peace on the other hand pay’s huge blessings to the masses, more job’s, security, a non secretive administration, all benefit, not just the profateere’s..When we turn this terrible corner that this evil administration has created it will also end the divided hatred that they have brought on our country and the world….Fear can not dictate and run lives forever, fear is what has brought us to this point and it all has been created by the evil few for their own gain….Love, understanding and compassion will go along with investigation’s and impeachment….Like light and dark we must bring light to all the evil and clean it up…Blessings all
March 28th, 2007 at 1:24 pmI admit, I know very little of this story. However, if they are British Military searching for poachers, shouldn’t they be armed? Why did they surrender so easily? Seems like another Bush/Blair attempt to provoke Iran, maybe even sacrificing their own to make Iran the “instigator”.
March 28th, 2007 at 1:36 pmI wonder what the total tab will be for cleaning up after the Republicans. I’ll bet it’ll cost trillions. It might well be incalculable. When Republicans screw up, they break world records. Too bad all those trillions disappeared from the Treasury under “Death Squad” Reagan and the Two Bad Bushes. It would come in handy about now.
March 28th, 2007 at 1:49 pmComment by Not Canadian — March 28, 2007 @ 1:36 pm
As I understand, the Brits were only armed with side arms (pistol) and were traveling in a small craft that they used to board a merchant vessel for routine inspection ( a practice that has been going on for years).
15 Sailors and Marines in a RIB (Rigid Inflatable Boat) only armed with sidearms are not in a position to “battle it out” with a patrol boat. That would not be bravery, but suicide.
And yes, the GPS/ “Blue Force Tracking” devices say they were in IRAQI waters, not Iranian. These devices are accurate, at sea, to within 100 meters (in most cases.) I work with these every day so I know they are VERY accurate.
March 28th, 2007 at 1:52 pmAnd while the Bush Administration is planning yet another war, vital things get neglected. The US is headed the wrong way in each and every aspect.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6502725.stm
Hi Sharon, hugged a nice birch for you today. Blessings.
March 28th, 2007 at 1:55 pmThanks Bob.
March 28th, 2007 at 2:01 pmInteresting stuff. In that situation, I might carry a white flag, just in case since both Iraqi and Iranian waters seem both equally dangerous to me.
I might carry a white flag, just in case
Oh French Canadian!
March 28th, 2007 at 2:04 pmAll seems to point that Brits were really in Iraq waters. But, can you really believe them?
March 28th, 2007 at 2:05 pmWatch it Tundra, or we’ll yell at you and run back to the Maginot line…
March 28th, 2007 at 2:07 pm[...] at AMERICAblog The Heretik, Think Progress and, especially, Neptunus [...]
March 28th, 2007 at 2:08 pm#76
And yes, the GPS/ “Blue Force Tracking†devices say they were in IRAQI waters, not Iranian. These devices are accurate, at sea, to within 100 meters (in most cases.) I work with these every day so I know they are VERY accurate.
Comment by hacker bob — March 28, 2007 @ 1:52 pm
From wiki:
Developed by the United States Department of Defense, it is officially named NAVSTAR GPS (NAVigation Satellite Timing And Ranging Global Positioning System). The satellite constellation is managed by the United States Air Force 50th Space Wing.
Oh! The system was made by te DoD and actually is controled by the USAF!
To being completely fair, LET’S remember how the GPS system works: a series of USA satellites (at least three for every measurement) give its coordinates to every GPS device, to help the device determine its position. The information of the satellites must be then deciphered and interpreted by the GPS system.
Let’s remember also (don’t forget to explain this, hacker bob), that the technology sold for civil uses (and most probably for other countries’ use) makes the use of it far less accurate. As a matter of fact, many hitchhickers’ magazines inform of this deviation of civilian GPS. A deliberate deviation is introduced in non-military GPS receivers.
Also from wiki:
Calculating a position with the P(Y) signal is generally similar in concept, assuming one can decrypt it. The encryption is essentially a safety mechanism; if a signal can be successfully decrypted, it is reasonable to assume it is a real signal being sent by a GPS satellite. In comparison, civil receivers are highly vulnerable to spoofing since correctly formatted C/A signals can be generated using readily available signal generators. RAIM features will not help, since RAIM only checks the signals from a navigational perspective.
Oh! The GPS system can be fooled with false signals!
And also from wiki:
Jamming of any radio navigation system, including satellite based navigation, is possible. The U.S. Air Force conducted GPS jamming exercises in 2003 and they also have GPS anti-spoofing capabilities. In 2002, a detailed description of how to build a short range GPS L1 C/A jammer was published in Phrack issue 60[13] by an anonymous author. There has also been at least one well-documented case of unintentional jamming, tracing back to a malfunctioning TV antenna preamplifier.[14] If stronger signals were generated intentionally, they could potentially interfere with aviation GPS receivers within line of sight. According to John Ruley, of AVweb, “IFR pilots should have a fallback plan in case of a GPS malfunction”.[15] Receiver Autonomous Integrity Monitoring (RAIM), a feature of some aviation and marine receivers, is designed to provide a warning to the user if jamming or another problem is detected. GPS signals can also be interfered with by natural geomagnetic storms, predominantly at high latitudes.[16]
So a GPS signal can be jammed, the USAF conducted GPS jamming exercises in 2003, and a simple TV antenna amplifier can jam a GPS signal.
hacker bob, swear me that the british or USA military aren’t playing with the GPS precission of the Irani vessels, to force an invasion of the Iraqi territorial waters. And please, save me the “We are the good guys” explanation.
March 28th, 2007 at 2:33 pmsheesh… make a hitchhiker a hiker. But the sense of the post is perfectly understandable.
March 28th, 2007 at 2:53 pmI can not swear to anything that I have no knowledge of. I have seen nothing to indicate that we are interfering with Iran’s GPS.
Also, the GPS devices being used, were they Northrop/ Grumman? Were they part of an FBCB2 suite? What were the Iranians using? Were they using US/GPS? Were they using Russian/GPS? How did every one end up in the exact same place at the same time? Did the US/UK plant “remote control” devices on the Iranian vessels? WHAT PROOF HAVE THE IRANIANS PROVIDED TO SHOW THAT THE BRITS WERE IN THEIR WATERS? What about not only the NAVISTAR but the POSNAV readings?
Yes, for civilian models of GPS there is a deviation. Just like in the military models. Just maybe not the same amount. There is also a certain amount of deviation when using a map and compass. That is why a map has a declination diagram at the bottom. Could you hit an apple on persons head with an arrow from 300 meters? That is essentially what a GPS Satellite is trying to do.
But, for the record, I have seen the location of where the Brit position was. It appears that they were in Iraqi waters (and within appropriate declination of the GPS/NAVISTAR and POSNAV, not Iranian. And this is not the first time the Iranians have done this.
March 28th, 2007 at 3:06 pmStyle gave the satellite coordinates of the British crew as 29 degrees 50.36 minutes north latitude and 048 degrees 43.08 minutes east longitude, and said it had been confirmed by an Indian-flagged merchant ship boarded by the sailors and marines.
March 28th, 2007 at 3:32 pmWhy just buy votes, when you can buy the support of a governor?
Has she no shame?
March 28th, 2007 at 3:38 pmKinda looks like a toupe’ he’s wearing.
March 28th, 2007 at 5:02 pmWhy just buy votes, when you can buy the support of a governor?
Has she no shame?
Comment by Dale
I agree with you there. Pitiful act. Just another reason I won’t vote for her.
March 28th, 2007 at 5:20 pmThank’s Doro, was it a pretty white paper birch?, I love those…..Hugged the big cedar in my yard for every one here….Blessings
March 28th, 2007 at 5:59 pmhacker bob,
my post was a fact based refutation of your assertion that GPS are virtually infallible. They’re not, and there are reasonable doubts about the reliance of GPS systems, especially when the data are filtered through one of the contenders of an hostile situation. I did left out some facts (the article in wiki is really extense and accurate), as the one that the one disclosing (partially) the GPS system for civilian usage (I understand civilian as non-american military here) was due to not other than Reagan.
Wait a moment. Reagan and Iran? You can bet that there are security measures in the GPS standard (security as in military control of the accurate data flow), and I’m sure as h3ll that the USA has means to embargo the GPS service to regions or countries, based in the technology they use. It’s the typical paranoid mentality of the USA GOP (this and prior ones). And the USA controls the technology sold.
Aside of that, the GPS system help GPS receivers to place themselves globally, but don’t forget radars. I’m sure too that Iran has a good couple radars in their coast and vessels, so locating a ship in the sea isn’t an only GPS matter. Look, I’m contradicting my previous argument here? No, not really. I was only stating that the GPS system IS NOT 100% reliable, and in fact, subject to manipulation.
I’m defending Iran either? No, not so much as raising doubts about the USA behaviour. Is Iran acting as a bully and not reliable? For sure. But admit it, as of today, the USA has no better credibility than Iran, and this is thanks to the last 6 years policy. Your two countries are acting like schoolyard bullies, and you’re hellbent to war. And a mayority of the people of the globe is against war. But hey, you love to drive humvees in deserts under a rain of bullets and IEDs exploding left and right, it’s a manly man dream.
Note also that the doubts raised against the USA integrity here have the same credibility that the ones of Iran creating weapon grade uranium.
March 29th, 2007 at 7:04 amGee, Ret. Gen. McCaffrey, “the population is in despair?” It TOOK MEETING with Gen Petraeus and 16 OTHER SENIOR U.S. CXommanders to GARNER YOUR FINDINGS? YOU MEAN YA COULDN’T TELL THAT BY SEEING THE CONFLAGRATION UNFOLDING BEFORE YA EYES FROM THE NEWS COVERAGE(WHEN IT WAS UNBIASED)? “in despair?” TALK ABOUT THE UNDERSTATEMENT OF THE CENTURY!!!!! HOW ABOUT IN TOTAL TERROR FOR THEIR LIVES, BLOODIED, RUNNING SCARED, CRAZED WITH FEAR AND HATRED???????? IDIOTS LIKE McCaffrey GET REWARDED BY BECOMING SPECIAL COMMENTATORS AT MSNBC!!!!!
FISH-MOUTHED POLLACK Pollock “concerned about long time morale?” IF SHE HAD REALLY BEEN CONCERNED SHE WOULD HAVE RATTED OUT HER CRIMINAL PREDECESSOR Kiley AND THROWN HIM TO THE WOLVES—-INSTEAD SHE ATTACKED THE REPORTING PRESS IN THE BEST Bushland Uber Allies APPROVED SWIFT-BOAT SMEAR MANNER—-WHAT A TOTAL F*CK-UP Pollock IS, JUST AS BAD AS Kiley!!!!!
DUMBSFailed CANNOT BE TRIED? WHO IS THIS Judgsie-Wudsie WHO THREW THE LAWSUIT OUT? A Bushland Uber Allies FELLOW-TRAVELLING TOADY? A FUGITIVE FROM “THE THREE STOOGES(tm)”? A SYMPATHETIC repugnant-repub rightwingnut crank fudge-pachyderm? NO, ALL OF THE ABOVE!!!!! WOO WOO WOO WOO WOO!!!!! NYA AH AH AH AH AH AH AH AH AH AH AH!!!!!!!!!!
“Gut the ENDANGERED SPECIES ACT”? I KNOW THAT TURD Inhofe IS ONE OF THE senators WHO VOTED NOT TO BLOCK THE PROPOSED CHANGES, THAT DESPICABLE CREEP!!!!!
HUNDREDS CRAMMED INTO A MERE TWO PRISONS? SOUNDS A LOT LIKE ABU GHRAIB, MANY PILED UPON MANY OTHERS!!!!!
A MERE 100 MILLION SIMOLEONS FOR SENDING CLASSIFIED MATERIALS OVERSEAS? IN MY DAY THAT WAS CALLED “TREASON”AND PUNISHABLE BY DEATH TO THESE NIGHT VISION GEAR MANUFACTURING SCUM, WHO ARE NOW RESPONSIBLE FOR MANY AMERICAN SOLDIER CASUALTIES!!!!!
ERA MUST BE STRENGTHENED TO STAND AGAINST repugnant-repub rightwingnut crank and Bushland Uber Allies ATTACK AS WELL AS TROGLODYTE Reaganite and Nixonite VOICES LIKE THE OLD FART-FOSSIL Pat Buchanan, WHO SHOULD BE RUN OVER BY THE GRANNY FROM HELL IN HER MOTORIZED V-8 WHEELCHAIR WITH SPIKED WHEELS!!!!!
HOWSABOUT MONEY FOR THOSE WHO NEED IT TO SURVIVE REACHING THEM AS SOME STILL HAVE NOT RECEIVED MONETARY AID TO GET BACK ON THEIR FEET AS WAS “PROMISED” BY CHIMPya IN SUCH A CAVALIER MANNER AND NEVER FULFILLED, OF COURSE!!!!!
Jon Voight, “Midnight Cowboy”(tm) HIMSELF—CHANGED HIS NAME FROM “Ride ‘Em COWBOY” to “FLOSSIE”!!!!!
March 29th, 2007 at 11:01 pmchris craft boats
I found your post comments while searching Google. Very relevant especially as this is not an issue which a lot of peaople are conversant with.
March 20th, 2008 at 2:22 amCat5e for High Speed Networks.
Bandwidth precedes data rates just as highways come before traffic. Doubling the bandwidth is like adding twice the number of lanes on a highway. The trends of the past and the predictions for the future indicate that data rates have been doubling ever…
March 20th, 2008 at 3:12 amMarine Satellite Tv Antenna
This article sounds well, but how everything is related together?
March 22nd, 2008 at 5:52 pm