I love what I am reading here. Shall drop by again….

One notable blogging tool that does not support trackback yet is Blogger. The term is used colloquially for any kind of Linkback….

I didn’t agree with you first, but last paragraph makes sense for me…

I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view…

I found your post comments while searching Google. Very relevant especially as this is not an issue which a lot of peaople are conversant with….

I didn’t agree with you first, but last paragraph makes sense for me…

So you don’t think that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed planned and plotted 9/11? You aren’t one of those wacko Rosie O’Donnell types that think that the 9/11 attacks were and inside job…are you?

http://www.shout.net/~bigred/Khalid.html

The FBI was responsible for capturing Timothy McVeigh so no credit can be given to Clinton (even though in reality a police officer had stopped McVeigh).

The FBI failed to put together the seperate pieces of Middle eastern individuals in flight training across the U.S. & FBI HQ in D.C. altered the FISA requests made by field agents in Minnesota, to examine Moussaui’s laptop (which contained information on Mohammed Atta) prior to 911 – but this is now Clinton’s fault & not a failing of the FBI?

Clinton sends cruise missiles to Afghanistan as retaliation to Osama one of his terrorist acts, but the right wing idiots all scream “wag the dog” in unison. Clinton doesn’t feel he can continue these types of attacks and certainly cannot put ground troops in if public sentiment is not there (elected officials work for the people of the U.S.)

Bus43 was in office for 8 months prior to 911 and received repeated warnings of a large scale attack on US soil from Tenet, Clarke & numerous foreign governments. Bush did NOTHING!

And if you believe anything a right wing liar says, “911 changed everything” is their mantra and supposedly things are different now.

But if you remember 911 happened after Clinton left office.

Were Drudge’s panties in a bunch when it concerned the right wing activist reporter & male prostitute, Jeff Gannon, being let loose in the White House?

Well probably… but for a different reason I’m sure. Another example of TOP GOP journalism?

Again, can you explain why you agree with the 9/11 Commissions findings about the Taliban/Al Qaeda resurgence, but doubt their findings about KSM?

If this question was addressed to me, which is unclear since the numbering of posts is unreliable, I will answer:

I never said I “agree” with this or that finding of the Commision. I find the Commision to be yet another “cover your ass with paper”, infested with lobbyists and self-serving “securocracy” “experts”, full of political dealers and wheelers, bureaucratic excercise in futility. The reliability of its “report” ranges anywhere from that of “Might actually be true”, via “we know where Saddam stashed them WMDs” to rather sratchy toilet paper.

Which is true of most of the “intelligence” related information that comes out of the government these days. Such is the state of decay of the whole system. Amongst other things it is the result of privatisation of vital governmental functions to well-connected “old boys” network contractors, misguided focus on high technology when faced with low-tech opponent (mostly because the “old boys” can make oodles of mulah that way), entrenched inflexible career personell refusing or incapable to let go of still fighting the Cold War, etc, etc.

A list of recommendations and my opposition to some of them is quite a bit different than a specific conclusion(s) reached about an international terrorist base on intelligence and other facts. It’s not even in the same realm.

Again, can you explain why you agree with the 9/11 Commissions findings about the Taliban/Al Qaeda resurgence, but doubt their findings about KSM?

“Analysis done by a neutral party. Trial by an impartial court, say in Hague. Or as a matter of fact anywhere where the “jury, judge and executioner” does not have an axe to grind with the dude.”

Well considering Pakistan, the country where KSM is from, is not an ICC member state, your suggestion is meaningless.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Criminal_Court

“The Court can generally only exercise jurisdiction in cases where the accused is a national of a state party, the alleged crime took place on the territory of a state party, or a situation is referred to the Court by the United Nations Security Council.”

“Not to mention that all evidence obtained under duress, including “confessions”, is null and void, no exceptions.”

And what is your definition of “duress”?….Torture? OK, again you are going to have to provide proof of the torture, which you STILL haven’t done.

“So if the Iraqis ever get Rusmfeld in court for all the vile shit he has done to them that will make Bush merely a “co-conspirator” because he was not the one to actually put pins into the map to represent the specfic targets for bombing?”

Well if that’s your warp way of thinking then we would, if they were still alive, you would need to put quite a few past American presidents on the stand like oh say Roosevelt, Kennedy, Truman, Reagan, Johnson, Clinton, Bush Sr., ect….. Give us a break!

“Osama is the one who put together the movement. He is the one on the Al-Queda recruitment tapes, not Khalid.”

Bin Laden didn’t and isn’t doing any of the plotting and planning…just as I said. I take it that you are going to be able to point to an attack planned by bin Laden? Please by all means, try again.

“Besides it is impossible for anyone to determine the relative involvement of Osama and Khalid in the actual planning…”

I don’t think anyone has actually fingered bin Laden in anyway for the actual planning of the 9/11 attacks.

“Extracted by a group of people who can be called anything but “impartial”.”

As if the ICC is impartial. The judges are all members of states that have signed on to the ICC and again Pakistan isn’t one of them. In fact here is a map of the ICC member states. I don’t see many Middle Eastern countries on there….

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:World_map_ICC_member_states.png

“And it is such unreliable, biased, self-serving evidence which the 9/11 commision used.”

Well I guess everyone is entitled to their self serving opinion.

“Therefore the onus is on you to demonstrate that he was not tortured.”

BS! I subscribe to the innocent untill proven guilty rule of law….but obviously you don’t.

“How many times do I have to repeat it: the reason we are “fixated” on Osama because for decades the “experts” have been feeding us a steady stream of “evidence” which painted him as I described earlier.”

So? He isn’t the only big fish out there. The fixation comes from what the media reports about al Qaeda…not what the experts at the CIA has been reporting for years on terrorists like KSM and Ayman al-Zawahiri. Osama is the “figure head” and is the most visible figure of Al Qaeda.

“Now these very same “experts” are pretending to have a mighty conveniently timed collective amnesia and you are taking the new party line at face value.”

What amnesia? They captured the architect of 9/11 and you and others like Lora think somehow he wasn’t the main plotter.

“So which one of the two became the “face” of 9/11 immediately after the attcks at the urging of the very same “experts”?”

I am not referring those so-called “experts” that showed up on the cable talk shows, I am talking about the real experts inside the CIA that presented that 9/11 Commission their information about KSM.

“Most people did not even hear about Khalid Sheikh Mohammad until he was captured.”

No?…really? Now do you understand why the “fixation” on bin Laden is the media’s and their “experts” call own fault? I knew right after 9/11 happened that the U.S. was looking intently for KSM and Zawahiri. I guess it matters what news sources you read or listen to if you didn’t know that the U.S. was hunting these two people immediately after 9/11 if not prior to.

Can you explain why you agree with the 9/11 Commissions findings about the Taliban/Al Qaeda resurgence, but doubt their findings about KSM?

“…Cheney off?”

So you don’t have the courage to type what you really ment? Doesn’t suprise me a bit as it does for so many others here who tell people fuck off and the like. I thought you were above all of that. I guess I was wrong.

No matter how many times I have written that you are making assumptions about something I never wrote or said, you still repeat the same drek. You are not my boss, teacher, or ruler, and I am under no obligation to explain anything further to you–especially something I have already explained. As far as I am concerned, you can go Cheney-off.

So you consider the 9/11 Commmission’s findings that Khalid Sheikh Mohammad was the chief architect for the 9/11 attacks as bogus? And his confession? What would convince you, along with Lora, that he was responsible?

Analysis done by a neutral party. Trial by an impartial court, say in Hague. Or as a matter of fact anywhere where the “jury, judge and executioner” does not have an axe to grind with the dude. Not to mention that all evidence obtained under duress, including “confessions”, is null and void, no exceptions both on moral and practical reliability grounds in any sane court in any civilized nation. Something you clearly do not even begin to comprehend.

Well if you can point to one terrorist plot that he personally planned then by all means do so. Yes he was a financier and co-conspirator in many attacks but I have yet to see him be indicted for what Khalid Sheikh Mohammad was, i.e. personally plotting the actual attacks.

So if the Iraqis ever get Rusmfeld in court for all the vile shit he has done to them that will make Bush merely a “co-conspirator” because he was not the one to actually put pins into the map to represent the specfic targets for bombing?

Khalid is an equivalent of a commander in an army headed by Osama. Without Osama’s guidance, finances and recruitment efforts he would have been reduced to trying to kidnap some hapless tourists in Middle East instead of executing far-reaching schemes involving coordinated overseas strikes. Osama is the one who put together the movement. He is the one on the Al-Queda recruitment tapes, not Khalid.

Besides it is impossible for anyone to determine the relative involvement of Osama and Khalid in the actual planning of 9/11 based on “confessions” extracted out of him (and the previous detainees) under duress. Extracted by a group of people who can be called anything but “impartial”.

And it is such unreliable, biased, self-serving evidence which the 9/11 commision used. Which renders their report as credible as the “slum dunk” one about WMD locations in Iraq.

You need to provide some proof that Khalid Sheikh Mohammad was tortured into his confession for the 9/11 attack among others.

You gotta be kidding me. You mean you missed the whole brouhaha about the Geneva Conventions provisions being “quaint”. The cages and GITMO? The standard operating procedure and Abu Ghraib? The secret CIA prisons? The snatching of people from streets of cities in Europe? You are really gotta be kidding me.

The thugs in charge have thoroughly and completely destroyed any presumption of decency and rule of law in these Gulags.

Therefore the onus is on you to demonstrate that he was not tortured. All of the “evidence” obtained by the idiot warriors of GWOT is tarnished and highly suspect by default. And they only have to thank their own stupidity for it.

You guys are the ones so fixated on bin Laden. Others however that have been captured like Khalid Sheikh Mohammad, who have been found to be personally involved in plotting 9/11, is mearly a baseless assumption according to you and others.

How many times do I have to repeat it: the reason we are “fixated” on Osama because for decades the “experts” have been feeding us a steady stream of “evidence” which painted him as I described earlier. Now these very same “experts” are pretending to have a mighty conveniently timed collective amnesia and you are taking the new party line at face value.

“We have always been at war with Oceania” comes to mind.

Well they haven’t been lying their asses off about Khalid Sheikh Mohammad who BTW has been involved in terrorist plotting well before bin Laden even started the terrorist operations for al Qaeda, after that Soviets pulled out of Afghanistan.

Really? So which one of the two became the “face” of 9/11 immediately after the attcks at the urging of the very same “experts”? Or is your memory, like theirs, highly selective?

Most people did not even hear about Khalid Sheikh Mohammad until he was captured. Meanwhile the “experts” where beating the drum of Osama Bin Ladin on every damned interview on every damned channel.

Daily.

“To explain what I thought was clear English to you, that means you have assumed that I think capturing Khalid is trivial, though I never wrote such a thing.”

You specifically said you have doubts that he was the mastermind of the 9/11 attacks! Sounds like you are trivializing it to me. If that wasn’t your intent then you need to explain how you could possibly think that the 9/11 Commission’s findings are unfounded and let me know why you could possibly think that KSM could be a “fall guy” for bin Laden.

“I haven’t even heard that anyone from the 9/11 Commission has been to Afghanistan/Pakistan lately or that they have been denying a resurgence of the Taliban/Al Qaeda in that region.”

Well isn’t that lovely, because I haven’t heard anyone say that they doubt that KSM was the mastermind of the 9/11 attacks….like you have.