In its 2nd annual ‘Green Issue,’
By on Apr 9th, 2007 at 6:36 pm
In its 2nd annual ‘Green Issue,’
Vanity Fair takes an in-depth look at the climate crisis. VF profiles Leonardo DiCaprio, who says: “It’s clear humans have had a devastating impact on our planet’s ecological web of life. Because we’ve waited, because we’ve turned our backs on nature’s warning signs, and because our political and corporate leaders have consistently ignored the overwhelming scientific evidence, the challenges we face are that much more difficult. We are in the environmental age whether we like it or not.” DiCaprio’s documentary 11th Hour, which examines the state of the global environment, will be released this year.
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Very well said. I have a whole new respect for Leonardo DiCaprio.
April 9th, 2007 at 6:38 pm“We are in the environmental age whether we like it or not.â€
I like reasonable practicality. Well done, DiCaprio.
April 9th, 2007 at 6:44 pmYou know, I’d be more likely to believe that there was a climate crisis if the spokespeople were more credible. I mean, come on! An actor and a washed up politician are the leading spokespeople? Why should we believe them? There must be somebody among all the thousands of scientists who are on board with the crisis who is willing to say these things. Isn’t there?
April 9th, 2007 at 6:48 pm#3,
Crawl back into your hole of denial, the grown-ups are talking.
April 9th, 2007 at 6:50 pmGot any suggestions for a spokesperson whom you would listen to?
April 9th, 2007 at 6:52 pm(Bozo is retired, I believe, someone else?)
Yes, yes, cynicon, we know. Your standards are so high. You need real credibility. We’ve all seen the standards you Bush supporters harbor for competence and credibility. You demand at least a ‘C’ average from a conservative insitution and the correct answers on a variety of social policy questions if a person is to get a job.
What I want to know is whether or not that’s a real picture or a photoshop deal. That cub is incredible.
April 9th, 2007 at 6:54 pm#3
There are thousands of scientists with consensus on the issue, isn’t that enough?
The ’spokespersons’ are just people in the public eye that are championing the issue. Why are you using these people to project the entire image of climate change from them? Can’t you look at the actual research yourself and decide?
Scientists aren’t politicians. They inquire and they experiment, and they research, and then write conclusions. They don’t run around in the public eye all the time – Al Gore and DiCaprio are two that do, and so give the issue more of the attention it deserves.
April 9th, 2007 at 6:56 pmCI,
You’re waiting on the “perfect” spokesman? Just read the article, and then Google all the quoted scientists — or don’t read the article (because you wouldn’t anyway).
April 9th, 2007 at 6:56 pm#4 — a classic liberal tactic — when you don’t have a good answer to a conservative point, insult the conservative. You won’t convince anyone of your position but it’ll make you feel superior. And after all, isn’t that the most important thing?
April 9th, 2007 at 6:57 pm#3…Just because Ronald Reagan was an actor doesn’t mean all actors are not credible.
April 9th, 2007 at 6:58 pmGotta put in a plug for Barlett and Steele’s article in the March issue of this very same magazine..Vanity Fair. ( it’s online too). Washington’s $8 Billion Shadow is all about SAIC. If you don’t know about SAIC, you’re missing a big part of the story of Bush’s Iraq War fiasco.
April 9th, 2007 at 6:59 pmCynicon, you have a knack for the irrelevant. Whether or not you like or approve of a “spokesperson’s” credibility is besides the point. DiCaprio and Gore are both supported by an army of scientists. You’ve got a couple of crackpots on the energy industry payroll and a drug-adled, sociopathic Sci-fi author. You’re phony concern about credibility is laughable.
April 9th, 2007 at 7:04 pmYou’re waiting on the “perfect†spokesman? Just read the article, and then Google all the quoted scientists — or don’t read the article (because you wouldn’t anyway).
Comment by Zooey
My point Zooey (obviously I didn’t make it very well) is that it is a bad strategy to use well-known but not-credible people in this effort to win the minds of the public.
If the planet really is in a crisis, let’s hear it straight from the scientists.
April 9th, 2007 at 7:06 pmAnd after all, isn’t that the most important thing?
Comment by Cynicon Implant
Yeah, just totally ignore what Xbot said in #7, because then you wouldn’t feel victimized.
April 9th, 2007 at 7:07 pmThank you Leo!
Can you spend a boat-load of money in 2008 to kick a bunch of Repugniscum a$$holes out of office and into the prisons they built??
Please…please…please???
April 9th, 2007 at 7:09 pmAl Gore is fortunately washed clean of the tawdry life of a modern politician.
April 9th, 2007 at 7:11 pmHe has transcended to the stature of statesman, and is courageously and doggedly addressing an issue which has far reaching consequences for the human race.
#9,
Sorry it took so long to respond, I had to stop laughing first. You are a silly and funny child, I’ll give you that.
Now, do you want to discuss the Climate Crisis or do you want to just throw out baseless and moronic insults against public figures who are helping to bring awareness to the masses? If you choose the latter, then please crawl back into your hole and play with yourself.
In case you haven’t noticed, the future of our children and grand children are at stake, if not that of humanity as a whole. Most here are sensible enough to approach this issue with intelligence and reasoned thought. You want to approach it like a grammar school popularity contest.
So, like I said, let the grown-ups take care of this one. You can occupy yourself by wondering what Britney is up to today, if that does not tax your intelligence too much.
April 9th, 2007 at 7:12 pmHang on as it’s going to be a very bumpy ride. In the coming months and ensuing scandals, we are going to see just how far this administration of smoke & mirrors has sold us out to Big Pharma, Big Oil, and Big Insurance while, at the same time, placing cronies in positions of power who have been doing absolutely nothing – to protect the american people or to even begin to resemble actual governing.
Scandal by scandal, problem after problem, investigation by investigation, we are getting a closer glimpse of the “little shabby man behind the curtain at Oz” as we come to know the “real George W. Bush”. … not the one lying to us about how much safer we are when Katrina victims are still not being helped…..not the one lying to us as our dogs and cats are being murdered by an FDA who’s been asleep at the wheel – what does that mean for our human food supply?? Anyone’s guess I suppose as more ingredients come from China which are not inspected. This is the man whose false bravado allowed him to don a military uniform (hypocrite) and exclaim “mission accomplished” as this insane, immoral and illegal war wages on resulting in the genocide of our military and innocent iraqis….
He was accurate on one count, however: the “mission accomplished” to which he referred was the complete and unequivocal “duping” of the american people. That mission he accomplished with aplomb, folks. And, now, we are left with the ruins of his greed; the ruins of his lust for power; the ruins of a psychologically impaired individual incapable of rational thought processes. Yep, “mission accomplished” was right – the mission was screwing the american public into the next century by one who stole the office (another screwjob) and pretended to be president.
April 9th, 2007 at 7:13 pmCynicon: “If the planet really is in a crisis, let’s hear it straight from the scientists.”
This is a current standard right-wing technique: act like you haven’t heard something which is common knowledge. Scientists have been speaking about this for years now. First, the corporatists pretend not to notice. Then, when a famous spokesperson cannot be ignored, they say “he’s not credible, let’s hear from real scientists.” Give it up, a-hole. Everybody here knows you’re full of sh*t.
April 9th, 2007 at 7:14 pmVis-a-vis global warming….I suspect that this rapidly declining country of ours, thanks to Bush, probably won’t have to worry about global warming or global anything once this cadre of crooks are finished with it.
April 9th, 2007 at 7:15 pmThe poor, lonely trolls that visit this blog. They will post anything just to get a conversation going. Guess they don’t have any real friends to talk with so they come here… just for the conversation.
April 9th, 2007 at 7:15 pmCynicon: The science and scientists have been there for decades for anyone who cared to listen. Now the nationally and internationally known politicians (washed-up and otherwise) and celebrities are bringing the subject the recognition it has always deserved. For better and/or worse, we are a celebrity-driven culture, and if that’s what it takes to get people’s attention, then so be it. The Repubs and their masters in the oil oligarchy are petrified of this entire issue as a proper, global response to the problem spells their ultimate demise. And don’t count out Mr. Gore. Nixon was dead-meat after his California debacle (”You won’t have Dick Nixon to kick around anymore”) only to rise from the dead and be elected President twice! Just get old Al to buff-it-up a little and he can probably beat anyone the Repubs put up.
April 9th, 2007 at 7:16 pmComment by Cynicon Implant — April 9, 2007 @ 6:57 pm
TROLL!!
Are you a ‘ho (paid) or just a simpleton below moron?
April 9th, 2007 at 7:21 pmMy point Zooey (obviously I didn’t make it very well) is that it is a bad strategy to use well-known but not-credible people in this effort to win the minds of the public. Comment by Cynicon Implant — April 9, 2007 @ 7:06 pm
Were you referring to the use of Michael Crichton by the GOP and Inhofe?
If the planet really is in a crisis, let’s hear it straight from the scientists. Comment by Cynicon Implant — April 9, 2007 @ 7:06 pm
BAHAHAHA, you mean like the one that worked for NASA that the government tried to silence? Or maybe the IPCC report (directly from the scientists) that Gore refers to, and you ignore?
The scientists are speaking all of the time, you’re just too st*pid to listen – brain damaged dum bass!
April 9th, 2007 at 7:21 pmCynicon, scientists have been talking about global warming for years. The result? See: Bush Admin’s environmental policy. For what it’s worth, America is in love with celebrity culture. Celebrities are used all the time to boost awareness of issues. Why? Because they’re effective. They’re exciting. Scientists have been at the helm for years on this issue and we have people who think the environment is a political issue instead of a scientific one. Celebrities put a familiar face on global warming, getting the message out to people scientists couldn’t dream of reaching.
April 9th, 2007 at 7:22 pmCynicon: The science and scientists have been there for decades for anyone who cared to listen.
Comment by johnny plumber
johnny, read the article in my previous post and then tell me about how everything is completely settled on this topic.
Oh, and good luck with the Al Gore fan club. Hopefully he doesn’t explode before you get to be president.
April 9th, 2007 at 7:23 pmSo, like I said, let the grown-ups take care of this one.
Comment by Pops
The grown-ups already voted Pops. Last time I checked Kyoto lost in a landslide.
April 9th, 2007 at 7:25 pmBefore who gets to be president, me, or johnny plumber?
April 9th, 2007 at 7:27 pm(I nominate johnny plumber, I’m to busy fighting wildfires….)
CI,
I didn’t see any article linked. Which comment are you referring to?
In the scientific method, nothing is ever “completely settled.” If that’s what you’re hoping for, it will never happen.
Meanwhile, global warming continues to get worse everyday, and our ability to reverse it becomes more difficult.
April 9th, 2007 at 7:28 pmMaybe all we need to do is purchase more carbon offsets. That way, we can use as much energy as we want.
Anyone go swimming at Al Gore’s house this weekend? Could you find a parking space for your SUV? Was the pool heated up to a nice simmer!
“I’ve often heard it said that there’s a consensus of thousands of scientists on the global warming issue and that humans are causing a catastrophic change to the climate system. Well I am one scientist, and there are many that simply think that is not true.” – .
April 9th, 2007 at 7:28 pmThe grown-ups already voted Pops. Last time I checked Kyoto lost in a landslide.
Comment by Cynicon Implant — April 9, 2007 @ 7:25 pm
MORON!!
Only a few countries have not signed on to Kyoto. How is that “lost in a landslide” a$$ clown?
April 9th, 2007 at 7:30 pm#27,
You’re still here? Okay then, I guess you want to act like a grown-up. Let’s see how that works out.
First test: Please cite for me the specifics on the Kyoto accord and its vote. Show me specifically where the democratic majority (you describe a landslide) of grown-ups voted it down.
April 9th, 2007 at 7:30 pmCynicon: “The grown-ups already voted Pops. Last time I checked Kyoto lost in a landslide.”
As usual, irrelevant.
April 9th, 2007 at 7:31 pmWho are you quoting, muckdog?
April 9th, 2007 at 7:32 pmAn actor and a washed up politician are the leading spokespeople? Why should we believe them?
Comment by Cynicon Implant
I’ll put those two up against all of the spoke people for the “man has nothing to do with global climate change” crowd. That would make it 2-0.
April 9th, 2007 at 7:33 pmFirst test: Please cite for me the specifics on the Kyoto accord and its vote. Show me specifically where the democratic majority (you describe a landslide) of grown-ups voted it down.
Comment by Pops
Oh cool….
I’m getting popcorn.
April 9th, 2007 at 7:34 pmPops,
I think Colon Implant is just another boring, useless troll. Maybe we should just walk around this pile of sh!t?
April 9th, 2007 at 7:36 pmThe grown-ups already voted Pops. Last time I checked Kyoto lost in a landslide. Comment by Cynicon Implant — April 9, 2007 @ 7:25 pm
The grownups did vote, and they passed Kyoto – of course they were running other countries. The CHILDREN in the GOP however refused to even allow a vote on the matter when they were in charge.
Now that the GROWNUPS are now in charge of the US, we should finally see progress. While little t*rds like you would quickly flush the whole earth with themselves – we prefer to compost you to the bin of useless political rhetoric, and the soiled diapers of the right wing day care we call TP.
April 9th, 2007 at 7:36 pmWhy won’t TP let me link the article? Frustrating…
I need to go so if you are interested, go to newsweek.com and search “Lindzen” or the article title “Why so Gloomy?”
The author is the leading meteorologist at MIT.
Later guys!
April 9th, 2007 at 7:36 pmLet me make that quote a little more believable, Muckdog — “Well I am one scientist, and I’m paid very well to tell you that there are many that simply think that is not true.”
April 9th, 2007 at 7:37 pm#30…Who are these “many” scientists don’t think humans are causing a catastrophic change to the climate system? Degrees from evangelical universities don’t count.
April 9th, 2007 at 7:38 pmMaybe all we need to do is purchase more carbon offsets. That way, we can use as much energy as we want. Comment by muckdog — April 9, 2007 @ 7:28 pm
Wow, you really can only think in *extremes*! What a st*pid twit you are.
Anyone go swimming at Al Gore’s house this weekend? Could you find a parking space for your SUV? Was the pool heated up to a nice simmer! Comment by muckdog — April 9, 2007 @ 7:28 pm
So Gore goes through much effort to install Solar panels, live more green, and all you can do is say he hasn’t done enough? You’re a hateful little piece of useless sh*t. Didn’t anyone tell you the country flushed you with the rest of the garbage in November?
Get a clue – dum bass! You’re f*cking up the planet, while blaming others that are in fact curbing and changing their own lifestyles. You’re a moron.
April 9th, 2007 at 7:39 pmIf the planet really is in a crisis, let’s hear it straight from the scientists.
Comment by Cynicon Implant — April 9, 2007 @ 7:06 pm
Read the IPCC report, dumb*ss.
April 9th, 2007 at 7:39 pmLater guys!
Comment by Cynicon Implant
Uh huh…..typical….
April 9th, 2007 at 7:39 pmI’m a troll who thinks that we should do our best to cut back on pollution and work hard at finding alternatives sources of energy. I own a hybrid vehicle because it burns less gas and re;eases less emitions into the air that we breath.
At the same time I think we should build more nuclear power plants and open ANWR and the Gulf coast for oil drilling because we need to ween ourselves from middle-eastern oil.
Never the less, I still don’t buy into all the doomsday senerios surrounding the theory of Global Warming. The planet has been warmer in the past and it will get warmer again in the future….but don’t believe the hype. The polar caps will not melt away and the seas will not flood Manhattan.
An Iranian theocracy with nuclear weapons is a far greater and more immediate threat to our world.
PS – I’m looking forward to my first bottle of Scottish Merlot.
April 9th, 2007 at 7:40 pmCynicon Implant, denying global warming science at this point is either EXTREMELY STUPID, or EXTREMELY DISHONEST.
Take your pick, a*sshole.
April 9th, 2007 at 7:41 pmMuckdog is a regular global warming denier here. Likely a paid shill. Certainly a liar.
April 9th, 2007 at 7:42 pmCynicon: “The author is the leading meteorologist at MIT.”
Classic. Cynicon is deeply troubled by the lack of credibility in this movement, so he wants to post an article by an unnamed meteorologist. Listen, Cynicon, there’s a funny guy on my television every morning who also calls himself a meteorologist. Most of the scientists studying this issue are climatologists. There’s a difference, you know.
April 9th, 2007 at 7:42 pmWhy won’t TP let me link the article? Frustrating…
I need to go so if you are interested, go to newsweek.com and search “Lindzen†or the article title “Why so Gloomy?â€
The author is the leading meteorologist at MIT.Later guys!
Comment by Cynicon Implant — April 9, 2007 @ 7:36 pm
Yes, Richard Lindzen is an *sshat who’s research is funded by big coal. What’s your excuse for being a moron? Who’s paying you to look like an idiot?
Did you bother to notice that the *papers* that Lindzen *publishes* aren’t scientific in nature, or peer reviewed?
April 9th, 2007 at 7:42 pmThe author is the leading meteorologist at MIT.
Comment by Cynicon Implant — April 9, 2007 @ 7:36 pm
Wrong again, idiot. Lindzen isn’t the “leading” anything at MIT. He is a discredited crackpot. He is has become an embarrassment to what he once was as a scientist.
April 9th, 2007 at 7:43 pmTo borrow from Amory Lovins…” The stone age didn’t End because we ran out of Stones” .
April 9th, 2007 at 7:43 pmMajor Corporations have changed their minds about this issue, because they checked in to Insurance liability problems. If the war in Iraq isn’t enough to convince the country that we need to find an alternative to Oil, a really Bad Hurricane season will probably seal the deal. Denmark raised their GDP by 50% with NO INCREASE in Greenhouse Gas emmisions. Windmills off their coast did the trick.
If we do Nothing about Greenhouse gases, and are wrong about it…..GAME OVER !
#45…there is no “theory” of global warming. It is a fact. The polar caps are already melting away. Don’t you ever read the news? Or doesn’t the neocon press report that?
April 9th, 2007 at 7:44 pmLater guys!
Comment by Cynicon Implant — April 9, 2007 @ 7:36 pm
Yes, it will be later, and you’ll be as st*pid, uninformed, and incapable of facing reality as you are today. You’re a lost soul, with the mind of a child, and the behavior of a spoiled brat.
Whatever piece of sh*t trailer trash you call a mother should be slapped so hard you are sucked back into the womb. You’re a zit on the *ss of mankind.
April 9th, 2007 at 7:44 pm#39,
I guess you didn’t want to be a grown-up after all. Not surprising. Reality is so much more intellectually challenging than NeverLand.
April 9th, 2007 at 7:44 pmmuckdog’s quote states “….there are many…., etc….”
April 9th, 2007 at 7:45 pmIt does not state what the many actually are.
Any guesses?
Exxon executives, Halliburton employees?
Above quote from Dr. John Christy.
More:
An Experiment that hints that we are wrong on Climate Change.
Enthusiasm for the global-warming scare also ensures that heatwaves make headlines, while contrary symptoms, such as this winter’s billion-dollar loss of Californian crops to unusual frost, are relegated to the business pages. The early arrival of migrant birds in spring provides colourful evidence for a recent warming of the northern lands. But did anyone tell you that in east Antarctica the Adélie penguins and Cape petrels are turning up at their spring nesting sites around nine days later than they did 50 years ago? While sea-ice has diminished in the Arctic since 1978, it has grown by 8% in the Southern Ocean.
So one awkward question you can ask, when you’re forking out those extra taxes for climate change, is “Why is east Antarctica getting colder?†It makes no sense at all if carbon dioxide is driving global warming. While you’re at it, you might inquire whether Gordon Brown will give you a refund if it’s confirmed that global warming has stopped. The best measurements of global air temperatures come from American weather satellites, and they show wobbles but no overall change since 1999.
That levelling off is just what is expected by the chief rival hypothesis, which says that the sun drives climate changes more emphatically than greenhouse gases do. After becoming much more active during the 20th century, the sun now stands at a high but roughly level state of activity. Solar physicists warn of possible global cooling, should the sun revert to the lazier mood it was in during the Little Ice Age 300 years ago.
Climate history and related archeology give solid support to the solar hypothesis. The 20th-century episode, or Modern Warming, was just the latest in a long string of similar events produced by a hyperactive sun, of which the last was the Medieval Warming.
April 9th, 2007 at 7:46 pmI cannot fathom the stupidity and/or dishonesty of the global warming deniers. It is incredible. It is like claiming that tobacco doesn’t cause cancer, or that HIV doesn’t cause AIDS, or that the earth is flat.
April 9th, 2007 at 7:48 pmCynical Con
April 9th, 2007 at 7:48 pmWhen you step out the door in any metropolitan area and the air is the wrong color and stinks , do you need a scientist to tell you it’s polluted ?
Huh. Cynicon Implant vacates, and voila! Ringo appears! Complete with a capital R today!
April 9th, 2007 at 7:48 pmMuckdog is a regular global warming denier here.
——————————————————————
In the morally rootless world of the Left, to question the theory of global warming is akin to being a holocaust denier, perhaps worse.
For conservatives (and any sane person for that matter), the closest thing today to holocaust denial is the so called 9/11 Truthers crowd….A truly delusional bunch.
April 9th, 2007 at 7:50 pm#30 Muckdog has tried to peddle this same crap here before. It is a standard industry talking point. It is totally false, of course.
April 9th, 2007 at 7:50 pmLeo and Mr. Gore aren’t making up this stuff. They have listened and learned from respected scientists who have published their findings on global warming in pee-reviewed scientific journals. Leo and Mr Gore are being good citizens in using their high visibility to spread the word.
April 9th, 2007 at 7:51 pm#3 Let’s see. Leonardo DiCaprio is not credible while YOU are? You are a joke.
April 9th, 2007 at 7:51 pm#62,
published their findings on global warming in pee-reviewed scientific journals
Is that what is called “yellow journalism”? Just curious.
April 9th, 2007 at 7:52 pm#56 Your quote is way out of date, Muckdog. Christy has thrown in the towel and acknowledged that anthropogenic global warming is occurring. Besides, Christy had already shot his credibility by then. Just like you have shot your credibility here.
Liar.
April 9th, 2007 at 7:53 pm#13 Who is using DiCaprio? Did you ever in your tiny pea brain think he might have just been speaking about his personal opinions? Don’t actors have that right in Amerika? You spurt your ill-informed opinions all over TP but because this guy is famous he has no right…right?
April 9th, 2007 at 7:54 pmmuckdog, Antarctica is NOT getting colder, so your quoted argument is ruined by a poor supposition. Because of changing climate in Antarctica, a large glacier in the middle of the continent is getting larger, but the average temp on the continent is going up and the ice shelf surrounding it is receding.
April 9th, 2007 at 7:56 pmOK, now here comes Ringo with more irrelevant B.S. I think we have a pattern here.
April 9th, 2007 at 7:58 pm#39 Funny CI. You know as well as everybody else that Linzen is bought and paid for.
April 9th, 2007 at 7:58 pmWhat I find morally rootless is someone taking money in return for lying. That is what we have here: people who are employed either directly or indirectly by the fossil fuel industry to come here and lie.
April 9th, 2007 at 7:58 pm#68 Pattern? Hell yes. Ringo is a troll.
April 9th, 2007 at 7:59 pmDiCaprio was just nominated for all kinds of awards for the Academy Awarded Best Picture film in which he starred (The Departed). Like George Clooney with Darfur and Angelina Jolie with children living in poverty, some actors actually cash in their celebrity for a good cause. That should be commended, not insulted…
Attacking the messengers really isn’t the kind of valid argument that’s going to get you taken seriously, CI. You should know that by now…
Go read ‘The Last Hours of Ancient Sunlight’ by Thom Hartmann – complete with the footnotes of research from many climatologists…
April 9th, 2007 at 8:01 pm#60 Oh, please, Ringo, expound on the virtues of being a righty. Because in my 34 years I have not seen many from you guys.
April 9th, 2007 at 8:02 pm#39 Funny CI. You know as well as everybody else that Linzen is bought and paid for.
Comment by JPark
That’s why he suddenly had to “go.”
April 9th, 2007 at 8:02 pmThe author is the leading meteorologist at MIT.
Comment by Cynicon Implant — April 9, 2007 @ 7:36 pm
You might wanna look up the definition for the job ‘meteorologist’. They deal with weather – a consequence of climate. It’s climatologists who deal with the climate that you need to study…
April 9th, 2007 at 8:03 pm#67 Blue, not sure it is even worth it. Only the moron thinks because the shelf is getting thicker that it must be getting cooler. Someone totally out of tune with reality and science. This guy should read a book (other than Crichton)
April 9th, 2007 at 8:04 pm#74 He made a mistake that most trolls don’t. He flashed a target. He must be a novice.
April 9th, 2007 at 8:04 pm#74 He made a mistake that most trolls don’t. He flashed a target. He must be a novice.
Comment by JPark
I think he’s conflicted. He needed to go have a good cry…..
April 9th, 2007 at 8:07 pmSomebody asked me for links and quotes from scientists who aren’t on the group-think email list for global warming. I’m going to share something new every time this blog mentions global warming.
There are thousands of scientists with data and writings that contradict what you think you know about global warming. And they have websites, blogs, published papers, graphs, studies, etc.
More to come.
WHY THE HECK IS THE ICE GROWING IN ANTACTICA?
Should this be happening if the planet is heating up?
Oh, by the way, for you baseball fans I hope all that snow isn’t affecting your ability to enjoy these Spring ballgames!
April 9th, 2007 at 8:10 pm#78 I am feeling awfully plucky tonight. I hope he comes back.
April 9th, 2007 at 8:11 pmYou know as well as everybody else that Linzen is bought and paid for.
Comment by JPark — April 9, 2007 @ 7:58 pm
I really think he doesn’t. He’s allowed his brain to erode from lack of use and instead repeats what he hears.
If he genuinely would educate himself and start thinking for himself, he’s one who would switch teams… The problem is getting people like him to get past the irrational fear of the unknown… And I doubt he’s willing. Sad.
April 9th, 2007 at 8:11 pmRingo has been here just long enough to borrow tactics from jake, patrick, et al……….
April 9th, 2007 at 8:11 pm(Man, troll quality control has gone down the tubes since November……….)
Global warming is the Amway of science. Quite a rally we have going on here.
April 9th, 2007 at 8:12 pm# 60 ringworm
April 9th, 2007 at 8:12 pmmorally rootless world of the left ?
This from a supporter of war and a 1/2 a million plus innocent deaths and torture advocate .
Hillaious.
Try closing the door to your garage , starting the car and breathing in those harmless fumes .
#78 I am feeling awfully plucky tonight. I hope he comes back.
Comment by JPark
So do I. :)
Just make sure you offer him a tissue….
April 9th, 2007 at 8:14 pmI find it fascintaing that Republicans and the rest of the kool aid drinking right wing find it necessary to endorse the attack on Iraq to justify future savings? I guess that is it becase they think that forcing a country to take on democracy somehow will make us safer and prevent Iraq from potentially joining forces with terrorists and attacking us at some un specified future date with unspecified weapons. And yet these same right wingers refuse to believe global warming presents any future threat even though there is far more evidence and agreement on global warming than there ever was on Iraq teaming with terrorists to attack us.
April 9th, 2007 at 8:14 pmGlobal warming is the Amway of science. Quite a rally we have going on here.
Comment by muckdog — April 9, 2007 @ 8:12 pm
If you’re so against science, then go move into the middle of the woods and the next time you want something (like food, warmth, medicine) – pray for it.
Let us know how that works for you…
Sheesh. The anti-science crowd grows more delusional every day.
April 9th, 2007 at 8:20 pmTry closing the door to your garage , starting the car and breathing in those harmless fumes .
Comment by freeman — April 9, 2007 @ 8:12 pm
LOL
April 9th, 2007 at 8:21 pmGlobal warming is the Amway of Science?
Is that like the Wal-Mart School of Fine Art?
Speaking of Amway, here’s a little factoid:
Eric Prince, the radical Christian founder and director of Blackwater USA is married to the sister of Dick DeVos, head of Amway, and recent loser of the Michaigan governors race. (Thank god)
April 9th, 2007 at 8:22 pmI DARESAY THAT A SO-CALLED “WASHED-UP” POLITICIAN WHO WON THE ACADEMY AWARD FOR HIS DOCUMENTARY “AN INCONVENIENT TRUTH” AND THE POPULAR VOTE IN THE 2000 ELECTIONS AND HAD THE PRESIDENCY STOLEN AWAY FROM HIM BY THE THIEF CHIMPya AND THE SUPREME COURT OF Bushland CRONIES AND A SO-CALLED MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR EARNING POPULAR ACTOR HAVE A LOT MORE “CREDIBILITY” THAN A SO-CALLED troll #3 WITH HIS HEAD UP HIS ANUS—Gore and Leo SMELL A WHOLE HELL OF A LOT BETTER THAN THE FILTHY PUTRESCENCE FROM THE LEPER LICKING troll #3 ALSO!!!!! HAH!!!!! I DARESAY troll #3 NEEDS A DICTIONARY TO UNDERSTAND SOME OF THE WORDS I USE IN MY COMMENTARY AS WELL!!!!!
April 9th, 2007 at 8:23 pmIt will work if he knows which gods to pray to, unbelievable…..:)
April 9th, 2007 at 8:23 pm#79 Wow, after trolls were warned about that subject (because they would get thrashed unmercifully), you go ahead and flout your ignorance.
Let’s see, Gump, we have ice sheets melting around the edges. With me so far. So, the freaking water level rises. And closer to the center of the ice sheet, where it is cooler, that water refreezes to create a thicker (but smaller) ice sheet. Genius, muck, thanks for playing.
April 9th, 2007 at 8:24 pm#81 I am not sure of the scientific reason for intentional denial.
April 9th, 2007 at 8:26 pmGore and Leo SMELL A WHOLE HELL OF A LOT BETTER THAN THE FILTHY PUTRESCENCE FROM THE LEPER LICKING troll #3 ALSO!!!!! HAH!!!!! I DARESAY troll #3 NEEDS A DICTIONARY TO UNDERSTAND SOME OF THE WORDS I USE IN MY COMMENTARY AS WELL!!!!!
Comment by Raymond Funamoto
Hey, now that’s a visual…..!
April 9th, 2007 at 8:27 pmIt will work if he knows which gods to pray to, unbelievable…..:)
Comment by Raven — April 9, 2007 @ 8:23 pm
Hormel, GE and Robitussin? :)
April 9th, 2007 at 8:33 pmI am not sure of the scientific reason for intentional denial.
Comment by JPark — April 9, 2007 @ 8:26 pm
I think it’s cultural indocrination, which occurs while the brain is still developing.
Last week, I was around my brothers’ respective children. The two kids with neurotics for parents are whiny, crybabies who are afraid of everything, while the other three kids with tolerant parents are curious, well-behaved and smart. I’m guessing it’s what he was taught to do, and he’s too afraid to try anything different. Yet :)
April 9th, 2007 at 8:39 pmHa Ha, good ones!
April 9th, 2007 at 8:40 pmI was thinking more along the lines of Diana, Thor and Herb Gathering Woman……:)
The Science Bit
The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) has been established (since 1988) by WMO and UNEP to assess scientific, technical and socio- economic information relevant for the understanding of climate change, its potential impacts and options for adaptation and mitigation.
The IPCC bases its assessment mainly on peer reviewed and published scientific/technical literature.
The IPCC also prepares Special Reports and Technical Papers on topics where independent scientific information and advice is deemed necessary and it supports the UNFCCC through its work on methodologies for National Greenhouse Gas Inventories.
WMO – World Meteorological Organization
UNEP – United Nations Environment Programme
UNFCCC – UN Framework Convention on Climate Change
Have a look at the scientific basis report here.
April 9th, 2007 at 8:41 pmand this interesting graph here.
Herb Gathering Woman……:)
Comment by Raven — April 9, 2007 @ 8:40 pm
No women would go near him :)
I’m convinced that that was why marriage was created – so guys like that could reproduce…
April 9th, 2007 at 8:43 pmThe cover of this issue was discussed on the TV, and they said the bear was Photoshopped in the picture.
April 9th, 2007 at 8:43 pm…….prayers are not always answered….;)
April 9th, 2007 at 8:45 pm#96 I have seen that a lot of people here have righty family members. That is so alien to me. Mine is liberal and proud of it. And ALL of our kids are curious, well behaved, and smart. Coincidence? I think not.
April 9th, 2007 at 8:45 pmThe cover of this issue was discussed on the TV, and they said the bear was Photoshopped in the picture.
Comment by ForTruth
I thought it must be, since there was no mama polar bear on DiCaprio’s neck…. :D
April 9th, 2007 at 8:46 pm#98 Peer-reviewed is a key term here.
April 9th, 2007 at 8:47 pmThere’s a point the Global Warming deniers are missing…
What is our motive to lie?
There’s nothing financial in it for us. No glory. No easier lifestyle.
In fact, accepting the facts of Global Warming will make our lives MORE difficult. Not exactly evidence of a ’self-absorbed’ delusion…
Silly trolls with zero critical thinking skills…
April 9th, 2007 at 8:47 pmSomeone was trolling the trolls today, damn. :)
April 9th, 2007 at 8:48 pmThe story is set in the near future. Visitors who appear human arrive on Earth. They appear to be friendly, seeking the help of humans to obtain chemicals needed to aid their ailing world. In return, the Visitors promise to share their advanced technology with humanity. The governments of Earth accept, and the Visitors gain considerable influence with authorities.
However, strange things are soon noted. Scientists find themselves facing increasing media hostility, and government restrictions on their activities and movements. Others, particularly those keen on examining the Visitors more closely, begin to disappear or face discredit. Noted scientists confess to subversive activities; some exhibiting other unusual behavior, such as suddenly demonstrating an opposite hand preference to the one they are known to have.
April 9th, 2007 at 8:49 pm…and so the story begins….
…….prayers are not always answered….;)
Comment by Raven — April 9, 2007 @ 8:45 pm
Heck, I’m an Atheist… I don’t think they are ever answered. And, of course, there’s Science for that as well ; )
April 9th, 2007 at 8:51 pm#107….
April 9th, 2007 at 8:55 pmthe story line you have posted has a close ring to a sci fi movie from perhaps the mid eighties-early nineties. It was shown on television as well…..
The aliens were able to shape-shift into human form, they had a “facility” in Central America that pumped out greenhouse gasses to make the planet warm enough for them……….
#105 I disagree. The denyers come before the egg on this one. They are so into their princess complex that they think talk about global warming is an attack against them. Global Warming is the vast, left-wing conspiracy against them.
April 9th, 2007 at 8:56 pmI’m a Pantheist, obviously………….
April 9th, 2007 at 8:57 pm#103 The photo shoot was taken at the Jökulsárlón glacier lagoon in southeast Iceland.
April 9th, 2007 at 8:57 pmIceland is not normally home to polar bears unless there are extremely heavy ice flows, which is very doubtful in the past 10 years.
Therefore, the bear cub was either:
1) Brought along for the shoot; or
2) Added later – Photoshop maybe?
I have seen that a lot of people here have righty family members. That is so alien to me. Mine is liberal and proud of it. And ALL of our kids are curious, well behaved, and smart. Coincidence? I think not.
Comment by JPark — April 9, 2007 @ 8:45 pm
You’re very fortunate… Even my most liberal, anti-Bush relatives are still conservative. Talking to them is like digging up your nose with an ice pick most days… They always need some higher authority to take a stand before they’ll “form” an opinion. I bet you didn’t waste a lot of your life thinking something was wrong with you for having critical thinking skills :)
(By the way, my open-minded side of the family, with the smart kids, has a step father… My brother isn’t a big part of that equation LOL).
April 9th, 2007 at 8:58 pmLindzen accepts the main principle of the greenhouse effect, that increasing greenhouse gases (like CO2) will cause a radiative forcing that, all other things being equal, will cause the surface to warm.
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=222
So much for CI’s sceptic scientist who does agree that CO2 will cause warming.
April 9th, 2007 at 8:58 pmThe forest around my area could very well burn down this year. We have 20% snowpack, and already dry.
These bears can only swim so far. They have been seen swimming over 60 miles from the coast, searching for food.
April 9th, 2007 at 8:58 pmSelected quotes from this summary:
“Both past and future anthropogenic carbon dioxide emissions will continue to contribute to warming and sea level rise for more than a millennium, due to the timescales required for removal of this gas from the atmosphere.”
“The atmospheric concentration of carbon dioxide in 2005 exceeds by far the natural range over the last 650,000 years.”
“The atmospheric concentration of methane in 2005 exceeds by far the natural range over the last 650,000 years.”
Scientists are speaking, but you have to quit porno for half an hour.
April 9th, 2007 at 8:59 pmComment by Royston Vasey
See ForTruth’s comment at #100. :-)
April 9th, 2007 at 9:01 pmGlobal Warming is the vast, left-wing conspiracy against them.
Comment by JPark — April 9, 2007 @ 8:56 pm
Which is why they are missing the point… ; )
Pretty much everything boils down to them in their tiny little minds. I’m nearly convinced that humans are evolving into seprate directions based on brain usage. There seems to be a larger and larger gap between smart folks and morons…
April 9th, 2007 at 9:01 pmI’m a Pantheist, obviously………….
Comment by Raven — April 9, 2007 @ 8:57 pm
Obviously :)
April 9th, 2007 at 9:02 pm#109 Raven – There once was a mini-series in 1984 called V
April 9th, 2007 at 9:02 pmGawd – 23 years ago!
The cub in the photo is actually the Icelandic pop singer Bjork in a bear suit. Leonardo is picking her up to go to the hot springs….
April 9th, 2007 at 9:02 pmScientists are speaking, but you have to quit porno for half an hour.
Comment by Juan C
**SMACK!!**
April 9th, 2007 at 9:03 pm#113 Well, I was raised nominally Christian (more deist really). I struggled with that for about a week when I was 16. Then I realized there is absolutely no evidence or reason to believe in some large, bearded guy. The politics were easier. We were liberal and Reagan made us more so.
April 9th, 2007 at 9:03 pmScientists are speaking, but you have to quit porno for half an hour.
Comment by Juan C — April 9, 2007 @ 8:59 pm
That was hilarious…
Oh – what was the Chomsky book you read?
April 9th, 2007 at 9:05 pm#118 That is exactly what is going on. They hate Al Gore because they don’t actually think about what he is saying. They just see it as an attack against them.
April 9th, 2007 at 9:05 pmComment by Raven
I like the swan suit much better.
April 9th, 2007 at 9:06 pmIf the planet really is in a crisis, let’s hear it straight from the scientists.
Heyzeus Christos, how many more fricking scientists do you have to hear it from???
April 9th, 2007 at 9:07 pmActually, its kind of stupid to have this “green issue”, and then have a fake picture. For some reason that just seems wrong.
I know it’s getting the message out and all. Just sayin’
April 9th, 2007 at 9:08 pm#128 It is a magazine cover.
April 9th, 2007 at 9:10 pmWell, I was raised nominally Christian (more deist really). I struggled with that for about a week when I was 16.
LOL… A whole week? You poor dear :).
Seriously – I wish it had only taken me a week. I was probably that age when I began to have doubts, and because you’re scared into suppressing them in my family, it took me 17 years to give up Christ, and then another 5 more to admit I was an Atheist. One of my brothers is, so that helped.
Then I realized there is absolutely no evidence or reason to believe in some large, bearded guy.
Was that not a difficult issue in high school where ’sheep behavior’ is the norm?
The politics were easier. We were liberal and Reagan made us more so.
Comment by JPark — April 9, 2007 @ 9:03 pm
Oh… That was my father’s idol…
You probably require far less therapy than I : )
April 9th, 2007 at 9:11 pm**SMACK!!**
Comment by Zooey
**bowing**
Oh – what was the Chomsky book you read?
Comment by unbelievable
I think it is not available in English language. I will translate it as: Noam Chomsky talks about Latin America and Mexico. (1998)
It says in the book cover: Includes unedited(?) documments of National Archives of US.
One of those are the one that I posted back in the Kristol thread.
April 9th, 2007 at 9:13 pmHeyzeus Christos, how many more fricking scientists do you have to hear it from???
Comment by JPark — April 9, 2007 @ 9:07 pm
I’d guess ten more than there actually are…
April 9th, 2007 at 9:13 pm#107 …the story unfolds…
April 9th, 2007 at 9:16 pmThe scientists are persecuted – both to discredit them (as the part of the human population most likely to discover the Visitors’ secrets) and to distract the rest of the population with a scapegoat upon whom they could focus their fears.
Key human individuals are subjected to a special mind control process called “conversion”, which turns them into the Visitors’ pawns, leaving only subtle behavioral clues to this manipulation.
One of those are the one that I posted back in the Kristol thread.
Comment by Juan C — April 9, 2007 @ 9:13 pm
Maybe they won’t print it here. Gore Vidal frequently has issues getting his stuff published here until the Big Media sees the revenues he makes, and then they suspend their objections…
I saw the post – wasn’t able to find anything of substance on an initial search, but I’ll try a better one and see what turns up.
Thanks!
April 9th, 2007 at 9:16 pmWHY THE HECK IS THE ICE GROWING IN ANTACTICA? -MuckDog
And it is not known that the Antactic (sic) ice sheet is growing or shrinking.
Coastal change has been most pronounced on the Antarctic Peninsula in the last few decades, where the Wordie Ice Shelf has practically disappeared, the northern part of the Larsen Ice Shelf has disintegrated, and other ice shelves are also changing.
April 9th, 2007 at 9:17 pmhttp://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/2005/3055/
New World Order propaganda to control the population. Time to move on folks ….
April 9th, 2007 at 9:18 pm#130 Ok, the week might be more biblical. Maybe a couple of years, a little less. It would have been tougher if I hadn’t moved from a fairly conservative town (not overly religious but very traditional and very conformist) to a town that, while it votes Republican, is more individual and less nosy.
April 9th, 2007 at 9:19 pm#130 Oh, yeah. When my father died when I was 7 and Reagan cut survivor’s benefits it definitely pushed the liberal in us. My father was a veteran. The Republicans didn’t support the troops then, either.
April 9th, 2007 at 9:20 pm#132 Yeah, like 200,010 instead of 200,000. These people are nuts.
April 9th, 2007 at 9:21 pmOk, the week might be more biblical.
LOL
Maybe a couple of years, a little less. It would have been tougher if I hadn’t moved from a fairly conservative town (not overly religious but very traditional and very conformist) to a town that, while it votes Republican, is more individual and less nosy.
Comment by JPark — April 9, 2007 @ 9:19 pm
Less nosy is always a plus :)
Well – ‘night folks…
April 9th, 2007 at 9:22 pmNight unB
April 9th, 2007 at 9:28 pmNew World Order propaganda to control the population. Time to move on folks ….
Comment by jonny
Better not look at the back of a one dollar bill too closely Jonny.
April 9th, 2007 at 9:29 pmNOVUS ORDO SECLORUM
“a new order has begun.”
Hey,
I trolled Jake, Patrick1, and Michael earlier today. Sorry if anyone is offended. It did get rid of them.
April 9th, 2007 at 9:30 pmFor Muckdog:
Antartica
June 2002, BBC News:
US scientists say the floating fringes of the Antarctic ice sheet are melting faster than previous studies had suggested.
The research, by Eric Rignot, at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, and Stanley Jacobs, at Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory, Columbia University, is reported in Science.
February 2005, BBC News:
Several major sections of Antarctic ice have broken off in the past decade.
1) Larsen A ice shelf, 1,600 sq km, broke off in 1995
2) The 1,100 sq km Wilkins ice shelf fell off in 1998
3) The 13,500 sq km Larsen B dropped away in 2002.
James Ross Island, once surrounded by Larsen, is free of ice and circumnavigable for the first time.
Three more shelves, according to the National Snow and Ice Data Center, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, and the University of Colorado, have receded past a “point of no return.”
March 2006, Washington Post
The Antarctic ice sheet is losing as much as 36 cubic miles of ice a year according to a new paper that provides the first evidence that the sheet’s total mass is shrinking significantly.
The new findings, published in the journal Science, suggest that global sea level could rise substantially over the next several centuries.
In 1994, the British Antarctic Survey (BAS) released data demonstrating that the average temperature on the Antarctic Peninsula had warmed by 4.5F (2.5C) since 1947.
April 9th, 2007 at 9:36 pmThe region has now entered a vicious cycle of polar warming: rising average temperatures, fewer cold years and longer summer melting have resulted in the warming of Antarctica’s waters. This has resulted in a decrease in sea-ice extent.
With a loss of sea-ice and ice shelves, reduced albedo (reflective power) causes a change in the absorption heat and carbon dioxide, which means more warming.
Truth,
I thought that was you trolling Michael — excellent work. :)
April 9th, 2007 at 9:38 pmI don’t know why we’re worried about Global Worming anyway. Today we had a huge freezing windstorm, hail, snow, and now rain. No worries, ya’ll.
April 9th, 2007 at 9:40 pm/sarcasm
#144 Don’t bother Royston, he doesn’t even get why the center would be getting thicker.
April 9th, 2007 at 9:40 pmNovember 2006, Associated Press
WELLINGTON, New Zealand – An iceberg has been spotted from the New Zealand shore for the first time in living memory, drawing tourists and scientists via helicopter.
Last year, icebergs were seen in New Zealand water for the first time in 56 years, but couldn’t be seen from the shore. This year one was visible from Dunedin on the South Island.
That was one iceberg, but there were others:
April 9th, 2007 at 9:45 pmNovember 2006, National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research (NIWA)
A giant flotilla of 100 icebergs is passing just 260km off the coast of the NZ’s South Island – the closest the glacial masses have been to this country for 70 years.
Dramatic pictures taken yesterday show the largest of the icebergs stretches 2km and towers 150 metres above the sea.
Truth,
I thought that was you trolling Michael — excellent work. :)
Comment by Zooey
Thank you. :)
April 9th, 2007 at 9:46 pm#149 Under their names?
April 9th, 2007 at 9:50 pmThat Bucketsofbloodforbucketsofoil was a nasty troll last nite…
April 9th, 2007 at 10:06 pmI own a hybrid vehicle because it burns less gas and re;eases less emitions into the air that we breath.
Comment by Pinnochio — April 9, 2007 @ 7:40 pm
LoL.
I haven’t even decided if you’re old enough to drive, but I know one thing.
You don’t drive no hybrid.
April 9th, 2007 at 10:08 pm#151 – Zep
That was ChildrenofLir. He’s done that before — on a lesser scale.
April 9th, 2007 at 10:08 pmDramatic pictures taken yesterday show the largest of the icebergs stretches 2km and towers 150 metres above the sea.
Comment by Royston Vasey
I wonder if it’s possible to tow something like that to land and use it for some kind of pure water product…
April 9th, 2007 at 10:09 pmAn Iranian theocracy with nuclear weapons is a far greater and more immediate threat to our world.
Comment by Ringo — April 9, 2007 @ 7:40 pm
You guys said that about Russia.
You guys said that about China.
You guys said that about Pakistan.
You guys said that about India.
And you were wrong on all counts. And now we’re supposed to take you seriously?
Not likely.
April 9th, 2007 at 10:11 pmBesides. If Iran does end up making a bomb, thats a long way from having a working long range delivery system.
Pakistan has had em for years, and they don’t have anything that can reach us.
April 9th, 2007 at 10:12 pmSorry. I’ll stop derailing the thread now.
oops
April 9th, 2007 at 10:13 pm#155 I don’t get it. Weren’t these cowards alive during the Cold War? THAT was scary. Mutually Assured Destruction is a bit more nerve-wracking than the remote chance that a terrorist will kill you.
April 9th, 2007 at 10:14 pmMutually Assured Destruction is a bit more nerve-wracking than the remote chance that a terrorist will kill you.
Comment by JPark
But not nearly as politically expedient.
April 9th, 2007 at 10:16 pm#151 – Zep That was ChildrenofLir. He’s done that before — on a lesser scale. Comment by Zooey
Huh, usually he’s fairly coherent. I wonder what the heck got into him, accusing me of not measuring up to being an occultist and then accusing me of being a privileged elite and then of being a liar who made up everything I ever talked about here. It was wack.
April 9th, 2007 at 10:16 pmAn Iranian theocracy with nuclear weapons is a far greater and more immediate threat to our world.
Comment by Ringo
They would probably destroy themselves. Besides I lived thru 40 years of nuclear fear during the cold war era, bomb shelters, School drills etc etc. It never happened.
And even if Iran does get a bomb and even try to use it they would be quickly annihilated.
April 9th, 2007 at 10:19 pm#158 I have to give Reagan his props. He knew how to scare people and he didn’t even have to try. These amatuers couldn’t scare anybody but the weaseliest little right wing puss!es.
April 9th, 2007 at 10:21 pm#159 Times have changed. Not only are people more fearful but if this were the 70’s Bush would be a distant memory by now.
April 9th, 2007 at 10:22 pm#160 – Zep
That’s what I thought, until about a month ago, when he went completely off the rails for some reason I could never figure out, and started accusing me of all sorts of insane crap.
Then on that Feinstein thread a while back, I recalled how I liked Feinstein back in the 70s when the Mayor and a City Councilman were murderd in City Hall, but that I had lost respect for her in recent years. That made CoL go of the rails again, demanding endlessly that I explain why I support her.
Last night it seemed that he sought me out. I didn’t realize he had a different name, or I wouldn’t have responded the way I did — probably wouldn’t have responded at all. I worked out who he was fairly quickly, but it was too late by then.
Pretty damned insane, don’t you think?
April 9th, 2007 at 10:23 pm#161 I am young, 34, but I remember the fear of the early 80’s (which didn’t measure anywhere near the legitimate fear of the late 60’s). These kids like Ringo would have pissed themselves.
April 9th, 2007 at 10:24 pm#154 zep – I’m sure they could tow an iceberg in and use it for fresh water.
April 9th, 2007 at 10:26 pmHowever, New Zealand has plenty of natural, clean mineral water of it’s own already, i.e. the world’s oldest bottled water company, Waiwera Infinity Water.
#164 Then on that Feinstein thread a while back, I recalled how I liked Feinstein back in the 70s when the Mayor and a City Councilman were murderd in City Hall, but that I had lost respect for her in recent years. That made CoL go of the rails again, demanding endlessly that I explain why I support her.
I remember that. It was crazy. The guy seemed fairly coherent before that.
April 9th, 2007 at 10:26 pmI remember that. It was crazy. The guy seemed fairly coherent before that.
Comment by JPark
I thought so, too.
April 9th, 2007 at 10:28 pmlast night it seemed that he sought me out. I didn’t realize he had a different name, or I wouldn’t have responded the way I did — probably wouldn’t have responded at all. I worked out who he was fairly quickly, but it was too late by then.
Pretty damned insane, don’t you think? -Zooey
Yes, he certainly sought you out and you even told him that your opinion had changed over time. I surely didn’t think it was CoL, I thought it was more like something IRI would do.
Yes it was kinda crazy =)
April 9th, 2007 at 10:28 pm#154 zep – I’m sure they could tow an iceberg in and use it for fresh water.
It could certainly come in handy to a country that didn’t have as much water. I think Israel and some middle east countries desalinate sea water, shame to just let it melt and perhap become dangerous to ships.
April 9th, 2007 at 10:33 pm#169 Zoo draws the real freakazoids. Honestly, I am glad I am male.
April 9th, 2007 at 10:34 pm#169 Zoo draws the real freakazoids. Honestly, I am glad I am male.
Comment by JPark
Thanks for your support. I’m feeling all warm and fuzzy now. :P
See why we women are reluctant to comment over our real names?
April 9th, 2007 at 10:36 pm#161 I am young, 34, but I remember the fear of the early 80’s (which didn’t measure anywhere near the legitimate fear of the late 60’s). These kids like Ringo would have pissed themselves.
Comment by JPark
Yeh I was born in 1960.
April 9th, 2007 at 10:38 pmFEAR FEAR FEAR!!
Atoms were supposed to bring peace, I even remember going to Disney World and the Atomic attraction where they made you feel small as an atom.
#155 I don’t get it. Weren’t these cowards alive during the Cold War? THAT was scary. Mutually Assured Destruction is a bit more nerve-wracking than the remote chance that a terrorist will kill you.
Comment by JPark — April 9, 2007 @ 10:14 pm
I think TP deleted my last comment Jpark.I tried answering you but its gone so I guess thats them saying don’t derail the thread, so I ‘ll try quick to respond to this and then drop it for fear of incurring their wrath, lol.
It seems like the right wing doesn’t understand the losses from the type of nuke a terrorist could smuggle into the country, (very hard to do) compared to the losses we would experience in global nuclear war are not even comprable.
Our unbalanced focus on terrorism is causing us to stir up trouble in Russia and China’s back yard, which could spark a much more serious problem than any terrorist could give us.
This is whats known as “straining at a gnat while swallowing a camel”.
April 9th, 2007 at 10:38 pm#172 I feel for you. It is true. You get the nuts (no pun intended). I defend when I can.
April 9th, 2007 at 10:38 pm#174 Honestly, I think the righties like swallowing camels.
April 9th, 2007 at 10:42 pm#172 I feel for you. It is true. You get the nuts (no pun intended). I defend when I can.
Comment by JPark
I appreciate it! :)
April 9th, 2007 at 10:43 pm#169 Zoo draws the real freakazoids. Honestly, I am glad I am male.
Comment by JPark
Sadly, it seems to be true. Zooey is pretty sharp witted though and that seems to set them off. Then again most of our trolls have no sense of humour and maybe they don’t understand that.
April 9th, 2007 at 10:43 pm#178 Yeah, that is why they are so threatened. A woman with a brain. It is pathetic but can be scary at the same time.
April 9th, 2007 at 10:45 pm#177 You don’t deserve the crap you get. It is also why I KNOW MA is male. He is obsessed with you.
April 9th, 2007 at 10:46 pmSee why we women are reluctant to comment over our real names?
Comment by Zooey
Oh, come on, Daniella.
April 9th, 2007 at 10:47 pmHeh.
Our unbalanced focus on terrorism is causing us to stir up trouble in Russia and China’s back yard, which could spark a much more serious problem than any terrorist could give us. -Worfeus
Thats my concern. The Clash of Civilizations won’t be America and the middle east but a major war between the big boys.
April 9th, 2007 at 10:50 pm#181 Hmm, I am guessing Julie.
April 9th, 2007 at 10:51 pmZep & JPark,
These whacked out trolls just don’t like “uppity” women. I considered tempering my style, but then decided it wasn’t me with the problem, so I’m not changing sh*t.
I follow MA around as much as she follows me around these days. Since she told that “funny” story about her alleged dead child, I’ve basically been trolling her.
April 9th, 2007 at 10:52 pmZoo draws the real freakazoids. Honestly, I am glad I am male.
Yeah she does. :)
April 9th, 2007 at 10:53 pmOh, come on, Daniella.
Heh.
Comment by Juan C
Troublemaker…. :-)
April 9th, 2007 at 10:53 pm#182 I doubt terrorism would be the trigger as long as we are supporting there attacks on Chechnya and Tibet. All countries have their dirty little open secrets.
April 9th, 2007 at 10:53 pm#184 Be uppity all you want Zooey!! That dead daughter crap was just sick. That women (man) needs to be in an institution.
April 9th, 2007 at 10:55 pmMany of the males on the right have difficulty with assertive, intelligent women. I made fun of michael on that subject. He was having issues with it.
April 9th, 2007 at 10:56 pmHmm, I am guessing Julie.
Comment by JPark
Whats yours? Can you tell?
April 9th, 2007 at 10:57 pmYup, Jeremy.
April 9th, 2007 at 10:58 pmI recently read the book The Mote in Gods Eye. (1975 sci-fiction)
Ironically we (humanity) are alot like the Moties.
I follow MA around as much as she follows me around these days. Since she told that “funny†story about her alleged dead child, I’ve basically been trolling her.
Comment by Zooey
MA reminds me of Phyllis Schafly. One of those who would think thats it’s okay to be raped by a drunken husband.
April 9th, 2007 at 10:58 pmZoo draws the real freakazoids.
Comment by JPark
Zoo, JPark called me a freakazoid. :D
April 9th, 2007 at 10:59 pm#189 If you think Michael has a problem with women, give Jason Hendler a shot!!!
April 9th, 2007 at 10:59 pm#182 I doubt terrorism would be the trigger as long as we are supporting there attacks on Chechnya and Tibet. All countries have their dirty little open secrets. Comment by JPark
I agree. But the time will come that it may be the oil that causes it.
April 9th, 2007 at 11:01 pmYup, Jeremy.
Comment by JPark
OH…thats a nice one. Reminds me of my grunge days listening to Pearl Jam.
April 9th, 2007 at 11:01 pmYeah she does. :)
Comment by ForTruth
Like draws like… :P
April 9th, 2007 at 11:02 pmZoo, JPark called me a freakazoid. :D
Comment by Juan C
I told him all about you, sweets. :-D
April 9th, 2007 at 11:03 pmwelp I’m gonna log off. TTYL.
April 9th, 2007 at 11:05 pm#196 Yeah, King Jeremy the Wicked. I may just change my handle :)
April 9th, 2007 at 11:05 pmMA reminds me of Phyllis Schafly. One of those who would think thats it’s okay to be raped by a drunken husband.
Comment by Zep Tepi
She’d probably say be careful what you sign up for — until she’s raped by her husband.
April 9th, 2007 at 11:05 pmGoodnight, Zep. :)
April 9th, 2007 at 11:06 pm#193 Well, we are all smitten with Zooey. Just don’t stalk. :P
April 9th, 2007 at 11:06 pmNight Zep.
April 9th, 2007 at 11:06 pmBut the time will come that it may be the oil that causes it.
Comment by Zep Tepi
Or water.
April 9th, 2007 at 11:07 pm#205 Yeah, just read the book, “Salt”. It could be any needed substance.
April 9th, 2007 at 11:08 pmI even remember going to Disney World and the Atomic attraction where they made you feel small as an atom.
Comment by Zep Tepi — April 9, 2007 @ 10:38 pm
How the heck do they do that?
I wanna feel small as an atom.
April 9th, 2007 at 11:11 pm#193 Well, we are all smitten with Zooey. Just don’t stalk. :P
Comment by JPark
Oy, I’ll never get my head through the door now. :D
Juan knows my real name…..
April 9th, 2007 at 11:12 pmOr water.
Comment by Juan C — April 9, 2007 @ 11:07 pm
Well if its water then they’re out of luck.
April 9th, 2007 at 11:12 pm#208 Uh oh, Zoo. I hope the righties didn’t catch that.
April 9th, 2007 at 11:13 pm#208 Uh oh, Zoo. I hope the righties didn’t catch that.
Comment by JPark
Why? Maybe they’ll start stalking Juan, instead of me. :D
April 9th, 2007 at 11:15 pmWell if its water then they’re out of luck.
Comment by WORFEUS
Ha ha ha. I guess by them you mean, ME countries. Well, but they are really developed when comes to solar desalination of water. They have to…
Uh oh, Zoo. I hope the righties didn’t catch that.
Comment by JPark
Its not Daniella. :)
April 9th, 2007 at 11:17 pm#211 They would have to come out for that. We know they need to but they are big fans of the closet.
April 9th, 2007 at 11:19 pmWhy? Maybe they’ll start stalking Juan, instead of me. :D
Comment by Zooey
I choose michael. At least I can fall asleep fast.
April 9th, 2007 at 11:19 pm#212 LOL, whew. Then she might be safe.
April 9th, 2007 at 11:19 pmI see what you meant, JPark. My name is not Daniella. :)
April 9th, 2007 at 11:22 pmI choose michael. At least I can fall asleep fast.
Comment by Juan C
Why? Huh? Why? Wanna debate? Wait a minute, I’ll run away…
:P
April 9th, 2007 at 11:23 pmYou two, JPark and Zoo are in the Obama thread, right?
Ok, I have to work, anyway. Take care. See you later.
April 9th, 2007 at 11:23 pm#214 Hehe, I can just see it. He would just keep asking if you have finished!!!
April 9th, 2007 at 11:23 pmWHY THE HECK IS THE ICE GROWING IN ANTACTICA?
Comment by muckdog — April 9, 2007 @ 8:10 pm
Gee, I don’t know. Maybe they planted some ice seeds?
Ice doesn’t grow Captain Nemo.
It forms.
April 9th, 2007 at 11:25 pmYou guys are the greatest.
I have an early morning tomorrow, so I’m outta here.
Goodnight!
April 9th, 2007 at 11:28 pmLOL, I love Family Guy. Death to America!! says Osama with big old granny shades.
April 9th, 2007 at 11:28 pmChow for now Zooey
April 9th, 2007 at 11:28 pmNight Zoo
April 9th, 2007 at 11:29 pmI love Family Guy. Death to America!! says Osama with big old granny shades.
Comment by JPark
Oh, I saw that one, too!!! Hilarious!!! Is in youtube
April 9th, 2007 at 11:33 pmYou don’t deserve the crap you get. It is also why I KNOW MA is male. He is obsessed with you.
Comment by JPark — April 9, 2007 @ 10:46 pm
Valiant Venus is male?
April 9th, 2007 at 11:55 pm#226 No, he is a tranny.
April 9th, 2007 at 11:58 pmwell done leo , getting involed in eco stuff!!!
April 10th, 2007 at 12:04 am#228 Um, yeah.
April 10th, 2007 at 12:06 amHow sad it is that the very concern that affects us ALL, the very plea that Gore/DiCaprio, etc.etc.etc. are making to the American/Global people is that this issue is NOT to be a political one. It is an ethic problem of gigantic proportions. The point is to put our differences aside and WORK THE PROBLEM.
(FYI, I’m a public school music educator in MINNESOTA (liberal state – though going to the red side of things slowly but surely) but strong conservative Republican who voted for Bush twice. I do not agree with everything that he stands for/does, but I’m a firm believer in supply-side economics. This is why I generally vote republican. Though this goes “against” my Republican status, I believe that global warming is a huge issue that needs to be dealt with. It knows no political or geographical boundaries and we must treat it as such. This is way too important to divide into red/blue territory.)
That being said, it saddens me to see grown adults who obviously have the ability to form intelligent opinons on a variety of subjects turn to ridicule and insults to “win” their argument. Folks, there IS NO ARGUMENT. I’ve been hearing about this issue since I was in elementary school myself (am now in my 30s)…and it hasn’t changed a bit. If you can’t put your differences aside, please realize that you weaken your argument nearly to the point of getting ignored when you feel the need to show your superiority over your ‘opponent”. Honestly, take a step back and discuss/debate like rational people. And you wonder why people think Americans are arrogant people?! If this is typical, then perhaps they are right? And I know that is simply not the case…how sad that some of you are choosing to add to our bad rep. Be part of the solution! Stay positive!
Ok. Feel free to rip into my post now. Call me names. Tell me I’m idealistic and naive. I’ll just be up here on the high road. You’re more than welcome to join me…the view is great!
Thanks Leo/Al, etc. for all that you do! – K.
April 10th, 2007 at 12:45 am#230 Not sure what the right expects. They lose the debate and the world wins.
April 10th, 2007 at 12:47 amJust in case anyone’s still reading this, a couple of comments and resources for future reference:
Global warming denialist Richard Lindzen (MIT meteorology professor) was mentioned above as the author of the “Why so gloomy?” article in Newsweek. Lindzen is far and away the most qualified of the denialist scientists; but now that history is the only thing standing between him and complete laughingstock status. As discussed at http://rabett.blogspot.com/2007/04/where-that-came-from-eli-has-been.html, his global warming views have some rather paranoid roots and his pet “iris” hypothesis (proposed as a means by which Earth’s temperature would be self-regulating) has gone down in flames. Someone had mentioned above that Lindzen is MIT’s leading meteorologist, but I’m afraid his colleague Kerry Emanuel is the one with the Rossby Medal (the meteorological equivalent of the Nobel).
One of if not the leading climate scientist in the world is Jim Hansen, head of NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies in NYC. Jim gives lots of speeches and writes lots of articles, and since the contents of many of them are not exactly approved by the Bush regime he keeps them on his Columbia page. In particular, I like this article from last summer (which for some reason Jim decided was safe to put on the main site). Note its use of one the Goracle’s slides.
Finally, Real Climate remains the best site for climate science by climate scientists.
April 10th, 2007 at 3:02 amAbout Hansen and the government´s actions to discredit him.
April 10th, 2007 at 3:29 amOnce upon a time…..
“During the last 20 to 30 years, world temperature has fallen, irregularly at first but more sharply over the last decade.”
US National Science Board, 1974
So now we’ve had at least 50-60 years of this.
April 10th, 2007 at 4:18 amhttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2006/11/05/warm-refs.pdf
Anyone here want to take on the issue of the “hockey stick” (hokey stick)?
The IPPC is a world government body, as is the UN.
Give up your Republic and merge with Canada and Mexico – that is the plan.
And Al Gore’s carbon swap swindle is the way to ensure that no US economy is around to survive the coming imposition of total globalization – GLOBAL FASCISM.
Wake up people. You are being frogmarched into hell whilst busy abusing and attacking each other with this partisan bullshit.
Global warming is not a partisan issue. It is an existenial political crisis for the USA!!!
April 10th, 2007 at 7:39 amSteve Bloom
I would chose your words very carefully. In labelling people who disagree with your conclusions “denialists” you are paving the way for an eco-fascist dictatorship.
Clearly, you have not read “The Green and the Brown: A History of Conservation in Nazi Germany”. If you had, you would understand the links between “blood and soil” cults, and the history of the environmentalist movement – and in particular its hatred of modern, industrial society.
It is precisely this kind of hysterial propaganda that is being used to whip people into a frenzy against their fellow citizens (the deniers), and civilization at large, that will form the basis of the next fascist movement in the Western world, if this is not stopped NOW.
Stop and reflect carefully on what the central argument of the environmentalist movement is – that mankind is a virus, a disease who pollutes and corrupts this world. If you accept that, then killing people is ok, since they are only a parasite on the “pure” land. Ofcourse, the people that these so called “left wing” politicians want to kill just happen to be those in the “developing” sector, sitting on all those nice juicy resources that our corporations and fund managers think they own for themselves.
The world is not divided into “left” versus “right”, but “humanity” versus “oligarchy”. When you understand that, you know who your enemy is, and to stop hating your brother who is in fact your ally.
April 10th, 2007 at 8:03 amLeo is saving the polar bears while thousands of Iraqis are being killed in a racist war.
Free Iraq!
April 10th, 2007 at 10:04 amThis has to be a National Lampoon parody…it is very funny and well done. Congrats or should I credit the editors of MAD Magazine?
April 10th, 2007 at 12:07 pmRAL, the central argument of the environmental movement is that people are part of the environment and the whole thing (people along with it) is worth saving and restoring to a healthy condition. What you state is more like what one would get from listening to the likes of Rush Limbaugh.
Regarding my use of the term “denial,” not only does it pre-date the Holocaust reference (and BTW, ever heard of Godwin’s Law?), it’s perfect as applied to Lindzen given his persistence in the face of massive rejection of his “iris” by his colleagues over the course of a decade. OTOH, Aussie blogger John Quiggen recently proposed that things have gotten to the point that “delusionist” may have become more apt. While the latter term does bring in the element of hallucination, it seems to me to leave out the element of lying, so for now I’m sticking with denialist.
April 10th, 2007 at 12:59 pmThere is all this shouting from the Left about how we must “do something†about global warming. As Bert once told Ernie on Sesame Street, “It’s easy to have ideas, but it’s not so easy to make them work.†So what, exactly, should we do to reduce greenhouse-gas emissions by enough to have a measurable impact on global temperatures in, say, the next 30 years? The standard cries of “George Bush is destroying the planet!†or “Big Oil is trying to silence its critics!†are not the most useful responses.
April 10th, 2007 at 1:00 pmDear family,
I love the passion, the focus on what is true.
A good lot of us have not been duped by the endless fraud in our midst.
(Well said; Thank you Raven for your eloquent outline!) How is it I know every point that Raven made? My global network of friends and family also share this awareness.
We are united in a stand that allows the new world to emerge.
What is the new world?; one conducive to life, a child-honoring paradigm.
What are the solutions? What is a way of life that supports life?
We have only complicated things. A healthy, thriving life is simple.
Simple!!!
Dive into learning about Permaculture Design. Creating homes as resilient and stable as an ecosystem. Truly beautiful, awe-inspiring, fascinating, and a great way through our current condition.
There are effective, practical solutions being employed all over the world;The indigenous wisdom integrated with our modern potential to live in harmony with the earth and each other is something I have personally witnessed and choose to bring light to.
I imagine we can inspire and design peace on earth for ourselves and have it ripple out locally and globally.
Since 1989, I have been writing, photographing eco-choices, traveling to eco villages and working with families all over the world, planting trees and food forests, and building Super Adobe projects and homes, as well as teaching Permaculture & Earth Art & Architecture to over 600 children and 1,000 adults. I founded the Maui Permaculture Network and 80 people showed up at the second meeting on a Sunday at 9am. The energy in the garden that day was vibrant and charged with great joy and passion.
My conclusion and offering:
The best 2 steps we can take personally right now is to grow our food or support a neighbor to grow enough to share with you, and get to know your neighbors and collaborate in meeting your needs locally.
Permaculture Design (purely organic) food forests are seven layers of food and are a great way to create regenerative food supplies locally! Enjoy!!! Plus they result in far more produce and herbs and medicinal plants that toxic agriculture as well as leaving the soil rich and the people healthy! See bar diagram in The Permaculture Designer’s Manual to know that mono-cropping, pesticide and oil-laden farming is ALL ABOUT PROFITS and lies that dupe the users of these inputs on their food and crops so they do not know that there is LESS YIELD using these toxic poisonous inputs than there is with ORGANIC farming.
I know, we may not like all our neighbors, but this is a time to reach out and risk a little, rejuvenate trust in our connections while we still can.
Clarity about what works is a whole lot sexier than wasting my energy reacting to those who will be distracting us more nd more, if we let them.
Let’s unite in love, however that works for you today, and we can use the power of the human Spirit to continue turning the tide in our favor.
Life deserves living and we have all the answers we need to thrive as an Earth Community. Who’s with me?
Admiring your tenacity and beauty,
April 10th, 2007 at 1:22 pmClaire Kellerman
KLARITY.org
The Maui Permaculture Network
Thank you Claire for sharing your insights, and for your good works!
April 10th, 2007 at 1:34 pm(Thank you as well for the compliment of, I’m guessing, perhaps my understanding of Al Gore?)
(smile, I just re-read my little banter regarding the “gods”…:)
I work in my own small way with the concept of permaculture, and I will certainly look for you at Klarity.org.
Blessings and Balance
Raven
I wonder what Jerry Falwell thinks of DiCaprio’s remarks. That old, bloated tub of shit thinks Christians have a God-given right to abuse the planet any way they see fit.
Spoken like a true profiteer.
April 10th, 2007 at 8:45 pmSo what does anyone think about Leonardo DiCaprio totally screwing over his neighbors property with his personal pool? The man is a phony! He doesn’t care about anyone but himself – and making a name for himself as a flag carrying “greener” is just about celebrity and public relations!!!! Cut me a break – the man does not have any education that he can fall back on to present himself as an expert!!!
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