50 White House officials have used RNC accounts.
The LA Times reports:
Today, 22 staffers have e-mail accounts issued by the Republican National Committee, Stanzel said, noting that it is a tiny percentage of the 1,000 political appointees in the executive office of the president.
Since 2001, about 50 staffers e-mailed using the system, he said. One former White House staffer told National Journal recently that Rove uses his Republican National Committee e-mail account for 95 % of his e-mail communications.
One former White House official, Assistant Press Secretary Adam Levine, told The Times that he was issued a private laptop computer but he found the dual system so cumbersome that he decided to use only his official White House computer.
However, Levine recalled seeing White House staff members moving fluidly between their official computers and the laptops provided by the Republican National Committee.
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This one is going to be good. C-Span is going to be a must see this year.
April 12th, 2007 at 12:11 amFluidly… like oil…
April 12th, 2007 at 12:13 amFor the latest news, email archives, hearings, legal filings and other essential documents on the Bush DOJ prosecutor firings, see:
April 12th, 2007 at 12:17 am“The U.S. Attorney Scandal Documents.”
Everybody in the Bush Regime are corrupt and devious liars. Everything they do is shifty and sinister.
April 12th, 2007 at 12:30 am“game over man, game over”
April 12th, 2007 at 12:40 amAs long as Impeachment remains off the table, this is but a side-show.
We can get all upset about this and that revelation, but our kids are still getting blown apart in Bush’s war.
Until their lives matter more than who’s getting embarassed politically, the side-shows will continue.
Why do you think the 2008 campaign started as soon as the 2006 results were in? To keep us distracted - entertained.
To put it crudely, all this is like p!ssing into the wind. Sure, you vent your bladder, but at the end of the day you’re soaked, you smell bad, and you feel really stupid.
Follow the money.
Make Peace more profitable than war.
April 12th, 2007 at 12:54 amCheckmate.
April 12th, 2007 at 12:55 am“HUH HUH HUH HUH HUH(CHIMPyaesque LAUGH) THE (BURIAL) PLOT (FOR Monkey Boy CHIMPya, FRANKENCheney and Bushland Uber Allies) THICKENS!!!!!”
April 12th, 2007 at 1:14 amSo, how does this implicate the Presidential Records Act?
Did Rove find a legal loophole to be able to hide his fingerprints?
What about Waxman’s earlier direction to not delete any emails or other electronic correspondence? Did that carry any teeth?
Hopefully some of these questions will be answered in tomorrow’s ThinkFast.
April 12th, 2007 at 1:15 am#9 I am not sure but I am guessing it was a not so legal loophole.
April 12th, 2007 at 1:17 am“Oh my God, and the quarterback is toast!”
April 12th, 2007 at 1:19 amThey only gave ‘em all a week to delete them before they pretended to make an effort to look for them.
Shades of Plamegate.
Cheers,
April 12th, 2007 at 1:29 amSend the FBI, NSA to the RNC to recover these supposedly lost emails !!!!
April 12th, 2007 at 1:39 amSend the FBI, NSA to the RNC to recover these supposedly lost emails !!!!
Comment by Willy
Yeah, there is always a copy stored somewhere.
April 12th, 2007 at 2:04 amAny bets that ECHELON has a copy of it all?
April 12th, 2007 at 3:07 amWaxman isn’t stupid…I would think that the email server for the RNC was also given a letter to hold backups. If so, it will be interesting to see when all these emails were deleted. You would have the information and proof of any of those who tried to cover it up by erasing their email. It is such a shame that the people in the White House decided that our laws were not for them….now who isn’t a loyal American? People might not be paying attention to the things we wish they did, like the seriousness of the Plame disclosure and its chilling effect on the FBI, but they do understand a cover-up, or even the appearance of one. People “get” the meaning of deleting email and having outside accounts to avoid the laws. It is just disgusting that they sit there thinking they don’t have to use the WH server and actually carry around RNC laptops so they can use a separate email system. Everyone from regular Joe to GI Joe to CEO Joe knows they’d be tossed in jail if they had done that. I hope they aren’t technically assisted by some IT ghoul in Cheney’s office that has “taken care of” the trails. I hope this shows what we know is probably there. I don’t think this will lead to impeachment but we need the proof to clean up the DOJ and get the real investigations back on track. We need to know so we can undo the harm that has been done to our systems. We need the proof in their writing to get those good Republicans who can’t take one more thing from this crowd to finally act. We can’t let this stand unpunished because it will set the lowest “dirty tricks” standard which all future administrations will be able to work from. I don’t want to tolerate or even begin to fathom this behavior being seen as the norm some day in our government, because they were able to get away with this.
April 12th, 2007 at 5:00 amSo now that Congress has a reason for getting their hands on the RNC mail systems, which aren’t covered by executive privelege, what other cans of worms will they find when they review the contents?
April 12th, 2007 at 6:16 amWhy is the RNC handing out laptops to Whitehouse employees in the first place?
April 12th, 2007 at 6:20 amI’m sure naked pics of Jiffy Lube Gannon and Matt Sanchez are all over that RNC server.
April 12th, 2007 at 6:53 amYour GOP: Setting the bar lower and lower since 2000.
April 12th, 2007 at 6:54 ami love it how these “deleted email” threads are amazingly troll free.. i guess there are some things even nazis can’t defend…
April 12th, 2007 at 6:58 amwhy is this important?
April 12th, 2007 at 7:05 amI’m sure the “lost” emails were to save the vanity of GOP members who want to keep all of their good deeds anonymous. How many GOP emails are on subjects of really trying to do good for America? Or all of the messages about keeping a “permanent Republican majority?”
April 12th, 2007 at 7:07 amI don’t think people in the whitehouse should be allowed to use RNC computers at all. If they were fluidly moving back and forth between computers that means they weren’t doing RNC business (no matter the current Gonzo Hatch act scandal) because that means, and and of itself, that they were being paid on the taxpayers dime while conducting RNC political duties and not the duties they were elected to do for ALL the people of the U.S. This should go for whatever political party takes office. If they want to do political party chores, fine -
DO IT ON THEIR TIME, NOT THE TAXPAYERS DIME!!
And just to show the hypocrisy of the neo-cons read this from David Corn about the Neo-cons (now passed on) Godmother’s (my condolences as well) rebuke of the Neo-Con war machine she once Rah Rah’d for;
April 12th, 2007 at 7:24 amhttp://rawstory.com/ showarticle.php?src=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidcorn.com%2Farchives%2F2007%2F04%2Fneocon_godmothe.php
First of all, yes, this is a clear violation of the Presidential Records Act. The Act was put in place precisely to make shenanigans such as this illegal.
Second, there’s no way the emails are “lost”. As many people have pointed out already on this and earlier threads, it’s harder to ‘lose’ an email than these jokers are making out. Even if the emails in question have been deleted off the server, there’s still the backups to consider.
I make my living doing exactly this sort of thing, and if I told my users that their emails were “lost” and just shrugged my shoulders, I’d be cleaning out my desk at the end of the day. Our email servers replicate email databases among themselves, to guard against one of them going down, and I make tape backups of all the databases nightly. Are we seriously to believe that the RNC is unable to take the elementary precautions necessary to safeguard their data?
It doesn’t matter anyway. The administration has dug its own grave on this one. If it fails to turn over the emails, it’s a clear violation of the Presidential Records Act at the very least…depending on what sort of backup strategy the RNC employed, and how it was circumvented to allow this “loss”, I’d say charges of contempt of Congress could be justified as well.
April 12th, 2007 at 7:29 amIf the White House is using outside email accounts for their day-to-day monkey business, doesn’t that blow the whole “executive privilege” defense out of the water? I mean, the whole idea about “executive privilege” is that no one outside the White is supposed to know about it, right? National security issues, right?
So how can they exercise executive privilege if they’ve already posted emails outside the White House in public domain? They can’t have it both ways.
But that’s never stopped them before and I’d bet dollars to donuts that they get away with it this time, too. Who’s to stop them, eh?
April 12th, 2007 at 7:34 amsort of reminiscent of when all of algore’s emails were lost while he was takin a leak, having drunk too much ice tea at lunch.
don’t remember any lib having a problem with that whopper
April 12th, 2007 at 7:49 amhttp://lordhumungus.ytmnd.com/
April 12th, 2007 at 7:57 amFluidly - like pure slime! The RNC is the epitome of corruption - They’ve reinvented it and need to be punished severaly for their “aiding and abetting” this abuse of the law.
April 12th, 2007 at 8:00 amDown with the putrified RNC! They need to be abolished and their WH co-conspirators need to be indicted.
April 12th, 2007 at 8:01 amThis is a very “high crime” with Karl Rove at it’s genesis, no doubt. Rove needs to be subpoenaed along with the head of the RNC and held accountable to the People for these criminal actions and overt abuse of the law. The people need to see an investigation by Congress IMMEDIATELY on this before the trust of the people and the respect for this government erodes even further. Time is of the essence on this - the people have lost faith in the White House already and it is eroding with each passing hour, each passing day.
April 12th, 2007 at 8:04 amThis is another corrupt, flagrant abuse of our laws by these charlatans in public office for which no punishment is “off the table” - which now includes hasty IMPEACHMENT!! Let’s go Congress….don’t let the people down or you, too, will be held accountable as enablers and co-conspirators in this war against the people of this country.
Violation of the President Records Act IS a HIGH CRIME against the people. IMPEACHMENT is the only remedy along with criminal time for those directly involved. Let’s begin this investigation today and get to the bottom of this cesspool called the administration and the RNC.
April 12th, 2007 at 8:05 am“As long as Impeachment remains off the table, this is but a side-show.
Comment by Briseadh na Faire — April 12, 2007 @ 12:54 am
EXACTLY!
April 12th, 2007 at 8:10 amNow we need to turn impeachement on its head and tell those who do not want Impeachment, that if they DO NOT seek impeachment of the shrubya, we will call for impeachment of them, for dereliction of duty.
Everybody in the Bush Regime are corrupt and devious liars. Everything they do is shifty and sinister.
Comment by Jay Randal — April 12, 2007 @ 12:30 am
I hope you don’t base this opinion on this news item, otherwise there are a lot of corrupt, devious liars among the American public.
It is just disgusting that they sit there thinking they don’t have to use the WH server and actually carry around RNC laptops so they can use a separate email system. Everyone from regular Joe to GI Joe to CEO Joe knows they’d be tossed in jail if they had done that.
Many, many “regular Joe’s and GI Joe’s” would be in trouble if they were investigated for this because many people switch back and forth between work and home computers doing things from one on the other. Granted, one would hope those working for the government would be more careful about it, but I’d bet if you checked this out among all government employees, you’d find it a fairly regular practice. Simply because it’s human nature to do things the easiest way rather than switch from one computer to another if you can do all you need to from one. If there is wrongdoing, then obviously, it needs to be punished. But you are on very thin ice making blanket condemnations based upon using the wrong computer to send a certain email. This might have a “chilling” effect on many Americans who do the same thing every day using their work computers. And yes, while government employees are paid by public money rather than private, it’s still using their “work” computer for other things, a VERY common thing in our society today.
April 12th, 2007 at 8:16 am34 dont count on anyone from this site being able to recognize any of the many criminals saturated thoughout the lib party. quite the opposite. they are worshiped here on a daily basis.
April 12th, 2007 at 8:46 amComment by CC — April 12, 2007 @ 8:16 am
Your argument falls apart at about the time the subject of the Presidential Records Act is raised.
April 12th, 2007 at 8:47 amThe Federal Government is our business. Bush and Karl Rove don’t have the right to create a sneaky and devious back channel to prevent their(our) historical records from being subjected to oversight.
Knock it off.
-GSD
April 12th, 2007 at 8:53 amA CEO and his officers are a “tiny percentage” of a Fortune 100 company’s staff. That’s the role of the White House staffers whose RNC-server based e-mail the White House claims is missing, inadvertently “mishandled”.
Those “missing records”, like the infamous missing minutes on Mr. Nixon’s tapes, are a Big Deal. They are wanted in a probe of possibly criiminal wrongdoing; at a minimum, they are likely to prove excruiciatingly embarrassing for a White House that prides secrecy above everything but upward loyalty. They are also almost certainly violations of the Presidential Records Act. There’s no “Ooops” defense.
Those too conveniently missing e-mails should make a prosecutor’s skin crawl and her instincts reach for the grand jury.
April 12th, 2007 at 9:12 amIf Rove used the RNC’s email system for 95% of his work and it’s all non-governmental political work, then when does he do the work he’s getting paid for?
Fire the lazy slacker and save taxpayer’s money!
April 12th, 2007 at 9:37 amMany-a-laptop swimming in the Potomic….
April 12th, 2007 at 9:51 amYour argument falls apart at about the time the subject of the Presidential Records Act is raised.
Comment by TripMaster Monkey — April 12, 2007 @ 8:47 am
If you read the entire Act, including the definitions of Presidential Records and Personal Records, there is enough ambiguity to allow for disagreement as to what must be kept. And, again, the point of my post was that not every improper use of White House and RNC computers condemns the user as “corrupt, devious, shifty and sinister.” Sometimes people choose the most expedient way to do things rather than the most proper. And I suspect that it is quite common among government employees of all parties, as all are human. I simply suggest waiting to see what improprieties are proven before implicating everyone with whom you disagree.
April 12th, 2007 at 10:16 amComment by CC — April 12, 2007 @ 10:16 am
So you think you’re allowed to break laws because they’re inconvenient for you. The law says that White House business needs to have records kept of all of it and records are kept of all emails or work done at these computers. What reason would these people have for bringing laptops into the White House when they have computers available to do their jobs.
April 12th, 2007 at 10:32 amCC sez:
While there may be room for disagreement there (which I doubt), the simple fact is: any communication that doesn’t fall under the Presidential Records Act won’t be covered by Executive Privilege either. You can’t have it both ways.
Establishing a covert channel of communications to circumvent the Presidential Records Act is most certainly “corrupt, devious, shifty and sinisterâ€.
Oh yes…because maintaining two separate lines of communication is infinitely more expedient than maintaining one.
</snark>
There’s more to your post, but what’s really interesting is what’s not there…namely, any mention of the RNC “losing” these emails. Again, as many posters, including myself, have pointed out repeatedly, it’s much more difficult to “lose” emails than the RNC is making out. If these emails have been deliberately destroyed (as is almost certainly the case), that’s obstruction of justice.
April 12th, 2007 at 10:34 am[…] of note, Karl Rove apparently uses the RNC account for 95% of his email communications. And this doesn’t only have to do with the US Attorney Purge Scandal; it’s also got […]
April 12th, 2007 at 10:40 amComment by TripMaster Monkey — April 12, 2007 @ 10:34 am
Thanks for describing that more clearly. I think cc ran off, good.
April 12th, 2007 at 11:31 am[…] 22 staffers have e-mail accounts issued by the Republican National Committee. “Since 2001, about 50 staffers e-mailed using the […]
April 12th, 2007 at 11:33 amComment by TripMaster Monkey — April 12, 2007 @ 10:34 am
Thanks for describing that more clearly. I think cc ran off, good.
Comment by shane — April 12, 2007 @ 11:31 am
Shane, forgive me for not responding in a manner that you consider timely. Please be aware that not everyone has as much free time as you. Outside of your world, there are people who have responsibilities like jobs, small children, sick children, elderly parents, school and church volunteer work. Not everyone’s the world revovles around this website.
While there may be room for disagreement there (which I doubt), the simple fact is: any communication that doesn’t fall under the Presidential Records Act won’t be covered by Executive Privilege either. You can’t have it both ways.
If you doubt my comment, read the document from the perspectives of, say George Bush and Bill Clinton while trying to put the best spin on their respective troubles and see if you can’t find various ways to interpret it. And I never mentioned Executive Privilege.
And, again, the point of my post was that not every improper use of White House and RNC computers condemns the user as “corrupt, devious, shifty and sinister.â€
Establishing a covert channel of communications to circumvent the Presidential Records Act is most certainly “corrupt, devious, shifty and sinisterâ€.
The majority of this article dealt with the fact that RNC and Whitehouse computers were used interchangeably, or one system used for all rather than each system used for its respective purpose. That is a mistake and a violation of the Hatch Act. It is not necessarily sinister. If some used it to circumvent the Presidential Records Act, then they should be punished. You paint everyone with the same brush.
Sometimes people choose the most expedient way to do things rather than the most proper.
Oh yes…because maintaining two separate lines of communication is infinitely more expedient than maintaining one.
“Stanzel said that the law has gray areas defining what sort of activity is permitted using government resources, and that some employees may have opted for the RNC system to avoid any suggestion of a Hatch Act breach or because the private equipment was easier to use.”
And you must have noticed in the article where Adam Levine said he saw staffers moving fluidly from White House to RNC computers, but that he opted to use his White House computer exclusively because the dual system (put in place to keep communications separate)was “cumbersome.” Not the right thing to do, but not in itself sinister. If you have never used a work (or school) computer to do ANYTHING other than work related specifically to your job, then you are in the minority.
There’s more to your post, but what’s really interesting is what’s not there…namely, any mention of the RNC “losing†these emails. Again, as many posters, including myself, have pointed out repeatedly, it’s much more difficult to “lose†emails than the RNC is making out. If these emails have been deliberately destroyed (as is almost certainly the case), that’s obstruction of justice.
Comment by TripMaster Monkey — April 12, 2007 @ 10:34 am
“In addition, the White House will begin the forensic process of trying to reconstruct any lost records. That will probably be hampered by an RNC policy of automatically erasing most e-mail after 30 days. Since 2004, White House records have been exempt, Stanzel said, though individuals might have been able to kill out e-mail messages.”
If this accounts for some of the lost emails, it doesn’t point to wrongdoing. My emails are deleted after 30 days and I have absolutely nothing to do with it.
I’m just saying wait to see what evidence is uncovered. Those who broke the law need to be punished. But government employees enjoy the same right to be “innocent until proven guilty” as murderers and drug dealers do.
April 12th, 2007 at 12:13 pmThe RNC is now saying the emails have gone missing. This is the equivalent of “the dog ate my homework.” Maybe we should call today’s scandal, “DogAte.”
Why are we not surprised?
Back in February of 2006, I reported on the Plame-gate prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald’s efforts to resist Scooter Libby’s demand for production of all the documents that Fitzgerald had reviewed, including highly classified documents. Scooter’s lawyers claim to need the documents to fight charges of perjury and lying to the FBI.
A (New York) Daily News article at the time said, “Fitzgerald, who is fighting Libby’s request, said in a letter to Libby’s lawyers that many e-mails from Cheney’s office at the time of the Plame leak in 2003 have been deleted contrary to White House policy.â€
Read the post at Nixon blamed his secretary, Rosemary Woods. Who will Cheney blame?
Visit the Schapira blog, “What we know so far …
“… and tell ’em Big Mitch sent ya!”
April 12th, 2007 at 2:13 pmsort of reminiscent of when all of algore’s emails were lost while he was takin a leak, having drunk too much ice tea at lunch.
don’t remember any lib having a problem with that whopper
Comment by ct — April 12, 2007 @ 7:49 am
Hey ct, provide a link to that information, please, or crawl back under your rock.
April 14th, 2007 at 7:11 am“DoGate” perfect.
April 14th, 2007 at 1:03 pmI think the RNC should reimburse the U.S. Treasury (taxpayer dollars) for all salaries for the 50 employees for as long as they used RNC email services. They are not employees of the U.S. Government; they are employees of the RNC. We should get our money back. Now.
Fraud, waste, and abuse runs rampant within this administration. Why are they being allowed to get away with it. Even ol’ W should return his salary.
April 14th, 2007 at 11:16 pm“Many, many “regular Joe’s and GI Joe’s†would be in trouble if they were investigated for this because many people switch back and forth between work and home computers doing things from one on the other. Granted, one would hope those working for the government would be more careful about it, but I’d bet if you checked this out among all government employees, you’d find it a fairly regular practice.”
Wrong again, Bush-breath. Rank and file Government employees are required to use only Gov’t issued, Gov’t configured computers connected to Gov’t network to perform their jobs for reasons related to protecting information that, while not classified, is considered “For Official Use Only” and not to be shared with anyone who does not have an official “need to know” in order to perform their job.
Your feeble argument that this was just human nature looking for the easiest way to email is undone by the Abramoff email complaing that (paraphrasing): “Dammit this wasn’t suppossed to get into the official White House system; there might be lawsuits.” It is obvious to anyone capable of rational thought that this was a deliberate conspiracy to evade the law.
April 15th, 2007 at 10:33 am“Wrong again, Bush-breath.”
I need to start a running list so I’ll know when I’ve received an unprovoked nasty response from the majority of regular posters here. Since this site regularly calls conservatives hate mongers, I would expect everyone here to be models of civility. Kind of makes you susceptible to your own constant refrain of “hypocrite! as well.
“Rank and file Government employees are required to use only Gov’t issued, Gov’t configured computers connected to Gov’t network to perform their jobs for reasons related to protecting information that, while not classified, is considered “For Official Use Only†and not to be shared with anyone who does not have an official “need to know†in order to perform their job.
Your feeble argument that this was just human nature looking for the easiest way to email is undone by the Abramoff email complaing that (paraphrasing): “Dammit this wasn’t suppossed to get into the official White House system; there might be lawsuits.†It is obvious to anyone capable of rational thought that this was a deliberate conspiracy to evade the law.
Comment by t-bone — April 15, 2007 @ 10:33 am
I was not referring to people like Abramoff and Rove. I don’t support crooks, conservative or liberal (and yes, you have yours just like we have ours). I was referring to lower level employees, not policy makers (rank and file government employees). Everyone isn’t perfect as you apparently are. People make mistakes and they don’t always have criminal intent. Had you read through my comment instead of simply attacking, you might have noticed that I suggested waiting to see who the evidence incriminates instead of condemning everyone. Everyone has the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty as progressives are so quick to point out for drug dealers and child molesters.
April 16th, 2007 at 2:36 amAs an apologist for these thugs (don’t try to pretend you’re not), I would have thought that Bush-breath would be considered a compliment of the highest order. I didn’t “attack”, I debunked your ridiculous, specious spewing of disinformation, which was in and of itself an insult to anyone with half a brain. Nice try though.
April 16th, 2007 at 7:38 amComment by t-bone — April 16, 2007 @ 7:38 am
I don’t pretend anything. Show me one post of mine, just one, where I’ve defended anyone who has been shown guilty of a crime. I don’t blindly follow any politician, which you seem to have difficulty understanding. I agree with SOME of Bush’s policies, both domestic and foreign. I believe we should have gotten out of Iraq soon after Sadaam was gone (and no, I don’t think Sadaam was behind 9/11, but he obviously supported terrorists who have attacked and killed Americans as well as killing his own people). I have always been a little suspisious of Bush’s character, just as I was Clinton’s. I wonder if your blind allegiance to the progressive (liberal) agenda makes it impossible to recognize when someone else is actually a moderate.
April 16th, 2007 at 9:36 amsort of reminiscent of when all of algore’s emails were lost while he was takin a leak, having drunk too much ice tea at lunch.
don’t remember any lib having a problem with that whopper
Comment by ct — April 12, 2007 @ 7:49 am
Interesting this exact post comes up every time a WH email thread comes up.
April 25th, 2007 at 8:58 pm34 dont count on anyone from this site being able to recognize any of the many criminals saturated thoughout the lib party. quite the opposite. they are worshiped here on a daily basis.
Comment by ct — April 12, 2007 @ 8:46 am
34 & 35 you two work together on every lost email thread. Easy since you post the same exact post every time. You must be the laziest troll out there.
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