Bush’s Sudan Ambassador: There Is No Genocide in Darfur
Bush’s Sudan Ambassador: There Is No Genocide in Darfur
Last month, Bush’s Special Humanitarian Coordinator for Sudan Andrew Natsios told a group of Georgetown students that the “term genocide is counter to the facts of what is really occurring in Darfur.”
In a testy exchange with Sen. Bob Menendez (D-NJ) at a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing yesterday, Natsios defiantly refused to characterize the ongoing violence in Darfur as a genocide.
MENENDEZ: Do you consider the ongoing situation in Darfur a genocide, yes or no? […]
NATSIOS: There is very little violence in Darfur right now.
MENENDEZ: I asked you to answer my question.
NATSIOS: I just answered your question.
MENENDEZ: Is the circumstances in Darfur today a continuing genocide? Yes or no?
NATSIOS: There is very little fighting between rebels and the government and very few civilian casualties going on in Darfur right now.
Watch it:
A recent Oxfam report on Sudan stated that “today the situation is as desperate as ever,” as “in the first two months of 2007, more than 80,000 more people fled the ongoing violence.” “The ongoing violence in Sudan’s Darfur region continued to rise” as peacekeepers were fatally attacked in North Darfur just this week.
Furthermore, the violence is increasingly dispersing. The U.N. reported yesterday that “in latest sign that violence plaguing Darfur is spilling into neighboring Chad,” between 200 and 400 Chadians were feared dead in an “unusally brutal attack” last month. “What is happening in Chad has Darfur as its epicenter,” said a U.N. spokesman. “We’ve been warning this for months.”
Natsios’s comments are part of a sad effort by the Bush administration to declare victory in the midst of an ongoing slaughter.
To learn what can you do about the situation in Darfur, visit the Enough Project.
Transcript:
MENENDEZ: You know, I want to ask you a question: Do you still stand by what you were quoted in the Georgetown Voice, saying that the ongoing crisis in Darfur is no longer a genocide situation?
NATSIOS: Senator, I actually — there was a retraction of that by the newspaper the following week. I actually looked at my statement very clearly. I did not say that at the — there were three mistakes, and the Georgetown Voice…
MENENDEZ: So would now tell the committee what is the situation in Darfur? Is it a genocide?
NATSIOS: In Darfur, Senator, right now there is very little fighting in Darfur.
MENENDEZ: That does not mean…
NATSIOS: Senator, could I finish?
(CROSSTALK)
MENENDEZ: The question is, do you consider…
NATSIOS: Senator…
MENENDEZ: Answer my question. I have a limited amount of time, Ambassador. If I ask you to be specific and answer my question.
NATSIOS: I’m answering your question.
MENENDEZ: Do you — you can’t answer if you haven’t heard it. Do you consider the ongoing situation in Darfur a genocide, yes or no?
NATSIOS: What you just…
MENENDEZ: Yes or no.
NATSIOS: Senator, please. What you just read did not take place in Darfur…
MENENDEZ: I didn’t…
(CROSSTALK)
NATSIOS: There is very little…
MENENDEZ: I’m asking you yes or no.
NATSIOS: There is very little violence in Darfur right now.
MENENDEZ: I asked you to answer my question.
NATSIOS: I just answered your question.
MENENDEZ: Is the circumstances in Darfur today a continuing genocide? Yes or no?
NATSIOS: There is very little fighting between rebels and the government and very few civilian casualties going on in Darfur right now. I told you…
MENENDEZ: I’m not asking whether diminished fighting. I’m asking whether the situation in Darfur today is a genocide. Yes or no. Yes or no.
NATSIOS: The situation is very volatile. There are periods of killing which could be construed as genocide that took place last year.
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85 Responses to “Bush’s Sudan Ambassador: There Is No Genocide in Darfur”
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More denial by the White House.
April 12th, 2007 at 12:54 pmIt is just selective killing. Not genocide. Calm down.
April 12th, 2007 at 12:55 pmThe Mudville Gazette characterizes his position as “Screw Iraq, Invade Darfur:”
The harsh reality is that once we abandon Iraq we’re going to have to put all the newly available troops in Afghanistan. Al Qaeda certainly will, and their recruiting is going to soar. Ultimately we’ll lose that one, too, because they won’t quit knowing full well that we will.
Then we can go to Darfur.
Behind much of the absurd talk of the impact of Iraq on military “readiness” there’s a Democratic talking point: “Because we are in Iraq, we aren’t capable of waging a war somewhere else.” That’s valid to an extent (but absurd to a greater one), but a more complete translation is that “because we are in Iraq we aren’t capable of executing a war that Democrats could hypothetically support, because Democrats are tough on national defense, by golly, and there are plenty of wars in places other than Iraq we’d prosecute to prove it”.
That’s disturbing, I’m concerned they would do so a bit too eagerly given the opportunity. Biden seems to be going that route - but he could just be paying lip sevice to it to earn the “hawk” (or “tough guy realist”) appellation the media bestows on guys like Murtha. (The actual “go to guy” for Dems when it’s time to cut-and-run. See Somalia, for example.)
April 12th, 2007 at 12:55 pmI’m all for doing things about Darfur. But I don’t believe Biden.
has the mofo even been there???
why do i doubt it?
only we in the usa are sick and selfish enough to allow that to continue
April 12th, 2007 at 12:56 pmNatsios isn’t “digging for the pony” like McCain on Iraq, he’s “imagining the pony.”
April 12th, 2007 at 12:56 pmNo genocide in Darfur? Right…. and there’s no oil there either..
April 12th, 2007 at 12:57 pmNatsios was a pariah when he was in gov’t in Massachusetts. One of the most hated and despicable characters in the state’s history. I guess that’s why Bush promoted him!
April 12th, 2007 at 12:58 pmFunny how the Bush Administration is always quick to declare victory. Please can we get a little attention on one of the worst thing to happen since the tsunami. We promised this would never happen again, as Americans, we would stand against tyranny and hate in the world. We have a promise to keep and people to save. Leave Iraq militarily, they don’t want our troops there. Send humanitarians instead. Poverty is the greatest violence. -Ghandi
April 12th, 2007 at 1:00 pmNo oil=no genocide.
April 12th, 2007 at 1:01 pmYep, this is the same guy who insisted the Iraq Invasion would pay for itself
April 12th, 2007 at 1:01 pmUh oh, the Repuke troll is straying from the party line.
He wants to do something about Darfur. But the party line is Darfur is okay.
Better drink some more koolaid, troll. Stick to the talking points or Karla Rove might fire your ass.
April 12th, 2007 at 1:01 pmEvery celebrity that has traveled there has found genocide but Bush’s appointee says it doesn’t exist today.
Must be just like McCain in Iraq, nothing happened while I was standing there. No problems here at all.
That’s the way Bush appoints people this is what we don’t want to know about now go and don’t find it.
April 12th, 2007 at 1:05 pmAnother lying, stonewalling, arrogant jerk! He sounds perfect for the Bush admin! He and Bolton probably lunch together.
April 12th, 2007 at 1:09 pmThen I recommend a White House vacation to Darfur.
Take the entire staff.
And they can take this jackass Natstupidos with them.
April 12th, 2007 at 1:09 pmTo acknowledge genocide would require to acknowledge that something should be done by the most powerful nation in the world to combat genocide. It may be because of no oil, it may be because of limited military resources or it may be for lack of humanitary logistics (remember Katrina).
This administration can’t recognize it because they can’t do anything about it.
April 12th, 2007 at 1:10 pmThere is no genocide, no killing, when one side has already been exterminated.
April 12th, 2007 at 1:11 pmRight…. and there’s no oil there either..
Comment by kelso
Exactly.
Furthermore, this is my opinion of the situation. US is not a MORAL agent, no state is a moral agent. Therefore, US should not get involved in this.
Let me explain.
April 12th, 2007 at 1:14 pmA real UN, (not a puppet of the G-7), should stop things like this from happening. And US, along with other G-7 countries should NOT SELL WEAPONS TO WARLORDS or hold their money in their banks. NO ONE talks about that, no one talks about that the real reasons that stuff like this happens, is that the weapon companies continue to do business no matter what. There is no respect for life, if it gets in the way of weapon trade. No, we wont hear about that, we just hear about how barbarian are those black animals.
Why did we invade Iraq? Oh, yes, to depose a terrible dictator who was killing his own citizens. Gee, if that was the case, we would be morally obliged to do the same, were a genocide taking place anywhere on the planet.
The Culture of Life. But once out of the womb, you’re on your own!
April 12th, 2007 at 1:15 pmChimpy could have rescued Darfur years ago.
Except he had all his troops tied up in Iraq.
Further proof Chimpy is incompetent.
April 12th, 2007 at 1:15 pmThis is the same Andrew Natsios who defended USAID’s original offer of only $35 million in aid following the 2005 tsunami…
April 12th, 2007 at 1:15 pmTime for McCain to take a walk through Dafur and report back that it’s just like a Sunday stroll through Pleasantville.
April 12th, 2007 at 1:16 pmActually, there’s plenty of oil in Darfur…which is precisely the problem.
Check here for more info.
April 12th, 2007 at 1:18 pmsick.. just so horribly sick
April 12th, 2007 at 1:22 pmYes, let’s invade Darfur and get in the middle of another civil war. I am willing to bet America can kill alot of women and children if Darfur if they just try.
April 12th, 2007 at 1:23 pmMore Jedi mind tricks from a loyal Bushie.
“These are not the genocide victims you are looking for.”
April 12th, 2007 at 1:23 pmDid anybody tell Chimpy theres oil in Darfur?
He probably doesn’t know.
Hell, he didn’t know the difference between Sunnis and Shias.
April 12th, 2007 at 1:24 pmBut the US is a moral agent, we use precisely the same argument to run headlong into Iraq. If you’re gonna use that argument, then the UN should have gone to Iraq, not us. Oh wait, we messed that opportunity up. If we’re gonna go it alone, we should do it right.
April 12th, 2007 at 1:25 pmWe needn’t invade.
April 12th, 2007 at 1:28 pmYou remember Natsios’ famous line before the Iraq War don’t you? He claimed it would cost the U.S. $1.7 Billion, TOPS!
April 12th, 2007 at 1:39 pm[…] Think Progress » Bush’s Sudan Ambassador: There Is No Genocide in Darfur […]
April 12th, 2007 at 1:44 pmThere’s no genocide, they’re just eradicating black people.
Remember Bush met with a victim of the Rwanda genocide and wrote in her book ‘not on my watch’.
Another empty promise, from a shallow, empty man.
-GSD
April 12th, 2007 at 1:46 pmTurkish generals are asking their governments permission to move troops into Iraq to go after Kurdish guerrillas.
-GSD
April 12th, 2007 at 1:47 pmNo Genocide in Darfur; No Civil War in Iraq, eh?? The GOP, obviously, is living in an altered state of reality. Get rid of all of these frauds before they tank this country!
April 12th, 2007 at 1:50 pmRemember Bush met with a victim of the Rwanda genocide and wrote in her book ‘not on my watch’.
GSD - are you serious? I mean, did he really do that?
April 12th, 2007 at 1:50 pmYou can bet your bottom dollar that is there was oil in Darfur, Bush would be there! What a schmuck!
April 12th, 2007 at 1:50 pmI just wanted to let TP know that this guy was coached by the same people instructing the AG!
Have y’all started to noticed that Baghdad Bob is pretty tame compared to these people? These people are actually worse …. which is amazing!
April 12th, 2007 at 1:53 pmAnother lying A$$ loyal bushie
April 12th, 2007 at 1:58 pmgen·o·cide
the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group.
I imagine that they’re saying that this is not a systematic extermination but rather a chaotic extermination so it doesn’t fit the definition of genocide.
Parsing the meaning doesn’t change the facts… the United States is no longer the moral compass that the world looks to (if it ever was), but just another ‘me first’ country
April 12th, 2007 at 1:59 pmActually, Regime Change had to be ditched as a reason for going into Iraq because it is clearly against International Law. That’s why WMD became the reason –and not just their existence, but the “clear & present danger” they presented to the West. Only then could an invasion be justified. And the reason Bush never sought the promised second resolution from the Security Council was because it wouldn’t have passed. Too bad the Republican Congress didn’t require a second resolution as well. It would have saved the world a great deal of grief.
As for Darfur, what annoys me is that it is so difficult to have any media go to the trouble of explaining who the players are, what’s happening, why it’s happening, and who is on whose side. We get the same fuzzy reporting from Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Kosovo, and Lebanon. Surely the public attention span is not so short that we couldn’t all handle a little background information. Or would it all be tainted with spin?
April 12th, 2007 at 2:00 pmAs I write this comment there are 30 posts. It took until the 28 post before anyone posted the fact that nastyos is the same piece of garbage that was interviewed by Ted Koppel and said to Ted that this “war” wasn’t going to cost the US anything!
April 12th, 2007 at 2:03 pmNow, when do we wake up to the simple fact that this president and his lying partners are literally telling us, the citizenry of this once great country that we don’t count! If there is ever a serious compillation of all of the lies that these inhuman monsters have perpetuated on us, the list will go on and on for days! They are war criminals, they are the destroyers of a US city, they are the refusers of basic scientific exploration that are resulting in immeasurable deaths and horrors to the citizenry.
It is beyond belief.
What is the answer? I think that it is clear - they have to be removed as quickly as possible.
billjpa
“There is no genocide. These are not the mutilated bodies you’re looking for. Darfur may go on about its business.”
April 12th, 2007 at 2:03 pmhow much did this idiot say the iraq war would cost?
April 12th, 2007 at 2:05 pmSending in the troops should be our last option when it comes to establishing national security in countries abroad. Genocides like that in Sudan, and what happened in Somalia should never be allowed to happen again. Our soldiers are warriors, not peacekeepers. This is the primary reason why they have such a difficult time in un-warlike scenarios, like in Iraq. The enemy is not clearly defined as fighting goes on in the midst of everyday civilian life.
April 12th, 2007 at 2:08 pmAs a nation, in order to preserve our own security should help establish other secure nations, not by military means. Hunger and poverty are petri dishes for militants, terrorists, and sociopaths. Eliminating the growth sites for such terrible things would reduce the need for immediate military action. It would also, be less expensive and possibly even make money. As those who are impoverished move out of poverty and begin to develop all nations involved could begin to profit in a healthy, sustainable way.
how much did this idiot say the iraq war would cost?
Comment by pete — April 12, 2007 @ 2:05 pm
1.7 billion dollars as I recall.
Have we reached that number yet…….?
April 12th, 2007 at 2:10 pmLook Bush said the same thing about the victims of Katrina begging for help and they were Americans. Nothing to see move along. As the people of Africa look like African Americans Bush and Mommy Bush look at them as not really people and their dog is of more value. Oh but of course African Americans can fight for the US in the military if they live and come back to US. They will continue to be worthless. Some even don’t see a problem with Imus’s comment as it’s only about Blacks. Now let anyone say a word about a Jewish person like Gibson did and all hell breaks out. As Barbara Walters as she used her show and wouldn’t even accept an apology yet these young black ladies in college mean nothing but move on nothing to see. Bush Administration will do nothing and could care less about the Darfur people because of the color of their skin, now if there were oil to get Bush/Cheney would have been there yesterday.
April 12th, 2007 at 2:12 pmOil discovery adds new twist to Darfur tragedy
Oil below and war above!
Watch this for a better understanding people…
April 12th, 2007 at 2:14 pmRob Newman’s History of Oil
There is very little violence in Darfur right now.
And there you have it, again, the neo-con alternate version of reality:
Things in Iraq are going “swimmingly”, terrorists are on the run, and there is no violence in Darfur.
Next in the list: Katrina never happened.
April 12th, 2007 at 2:18 pmComment by Gregor Samsa — April 12, 2007 @ 2:18 pm
The next likely thing to happen is another terror attack in the USA followed by Marshall Law and Military Government for our own good!
April 12th, 2007 at 2:22 pmI would recommend we impeach but then who would we have as Pres?!! Can we impeach an administration?
April 12th, 2007 at 2:31 pmRegime Change sez:
In the event of the President and the Vice President being rendered unable to serve, the Speaker of the House is the next in line.
President Pelosi has a nice ring to it…
April 12th, 2007 at 2:36 pmIt’s time for The Loyal Bushies - Greatest Hits, featuring:
It’s a slam-dunk.
No one could have foreseen the levies breaking.
We’ll be greeted as liberators.
We don’t wiretap without a warrant.
They were fired for performance issues.
The WMD’s are south, east, west and north a bit.
Frankly I don’t care where Osama is.
Iraq is safer than Indiana.
Heck of a job.
It’s just a god damned piece of paper.
Scooter’s got a bad memory.
CIA? CYA!
Lawyer, laywer, pants of fire!
and the latest hit climbing the charts…
April 12th, 2007 at 2:40 pmYes, we have no genocide!
Comment by Regime change — April 12, 2007 @ 2:31 pm
There are not enough votes to impeach. If there were then to get Cheney out would need another article of impeachment. Folks we still need to go through the process and conduct hearings, possible depositions and then possible impeachment.
By the time that happens we would have already invaded Iran and if there is another attack on US soil we will be in Marshall Law. Many of us believe that the govt LIHOP or MIHOP regarding a given day several years ago. Thousands were killed and so that can happen again. Cheney has stated that Marshall Law is one of the possible actions to be taken in the event of another g-11 in the US or even abroad!
April 12th, 2007 at 2:49 pmJeezus H Christ!!
April 12th, 2007 at 2:53 pmAnother Bush lackey who has been loyal to the boy-king from day one, and has earned his reward from the prince. He is the one who said we’d rebuild Iraq for less than $2billion, and that we’d be greeted as liberators, that the WMD were surely going to be found, that everything in Iraq would be just rosy. He also was in charge of the Big Dig project that collpsed last year.
Yeah, this is a man with credentials!
This is a wise man we should listen to.
HAH!
This guy couldn’t find his ass with two hands.
This is the same man who said Iraq would cost only $1.7B to rebuild: see the video HERE.
April 12th, 2007 at 3:06 pmEverything is coming up roses.
April 12th, 2007 at 3:10 pmum…ever since the ethiopians came by with US naval support and swept the place pretty clean of those nasty militias, chances are the situation there IS NO LONGER GENOCIDE. It was, but the ethiopians did declare war and sudan, they invaded, and they fucked up the bad guys
April 12th, 2007 at 3:23 pmShould have done what Colbert does: “I’ll put you down for a Yes”
April 12th, 2007 at 3:26 pmI thought everyone knew there was oil in Sudan. Chevron found it in the late 70’s before they pulled out of the area in the 80’s.
All the oil money and jobs now go to Malaysian firms. I don’t know the exact percentage, but the Sudanese pretty much get nothing out of the deal.
April 12th, 2007 at 4:11 pmI’m so ashamed of this government.
We need a clean sweep — NOW.
April 12th, 2007 at 4:14 pmThis guy is a complete douchebag.
April 12th, 2007 at 4:35 pmCheck it out yourself:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Natsios
Who cares about Dafur. It’s like Iraq we should mind our business.
April 12th, 2007 at 4:35 pmAll you chicken hawks wanting for our troops to go to Dafur, why don’t you all sign up?
ernesto confused Sudan and Somalia.
April 12th, 2007 at 5:00 pm“Who cares about Darfur????”
April 12th, 2007 at 6:12 pmAre you just that stupid too?
Read about what is happening over there. I assume you can read.
Ive worked with these families and heard horror stories from six year old kids. Ive seen the SCARS. The last memory one of my students has of her home is a man chopping her fathers feet off with a machete ok?
These people NEED our help and it is our DUTY as a powerful nation to give humanitarian assistance and stop this atrocity.
Anyone who can say “who cares about Darfur” is seriously under educated about the state of the world.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
Natsios IS A NAZI-ASS—-GENOCIDE IS GENOCIDE, NO MATTER HOW YOU TRY TO SPIN IT—-SO FACE THE FACTS, NAZI-ASS Natsios!!!!!
April 12th, 2007 at 11:29 pmI can’t believe he would be so arongant in his responce, which just goes to show that the U.S. government is once again ignorant towards genocide!!!
April 13th, 2007 at 12:18 amInteresting how this news comes just before the usual rallies and recognition throughout the world of the ARMENIAN GENOCIDE, which the USA doesn’t recognize either (Most of the rest of the world recognizes it).
April 13th, 2007 at 1:12 amSo where is Vermin Venus, who once on a particularly crazy rant on another post last year as “Mighty Aphrodite/Hypocrite,” accused me of being a hypocrite for not protesting the genocide in Darfur (which I’ve actually protested), or under Stalin and Hitler (I had yet to be born then)? I suppose now that Dumbya’s Ambassador has stated there is no genocide, Vermin Venus will be okay with Darfur, eh?
April 13th, 2007 at 3:50 amJust watch for the next recess…
April 13th, 2007 at 6:38 amThere is mass killing taking place in Sudan; however, it is not genocide. Based on the definition of genocide first forwarded by Raphael Lemkin and eventually adopted/modified by the UN in the form of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide the killing occurring is not “racially” motivated - it is motivated by the thirsty “Red Dragon” - the PRC. The PRC is providing weapons, helicopters, etc. to the Sudanese military so they can ravage the country and “clear” villagers from the southern oil fields. It is critical to note, the villagers being murdered are Muslim, Christian, and Animists. There is no one specific group being targeted - the one similarity between these people is the location of their villages in relation to oil. One might ask about the Janjaweed, they are simply a militia - in other words, they are for hire. The fact that they are Muslim is irrelevant, they were commissioned by Khartoum and they are taking every opportunity to rape, pillage, and - in general - profit. To quote a Sudanese refugee: “They come and they take oil.” Finally, I believe the killing must stop and an international force must intervene; however, this would be extremely complicated, as both the PRC and Russian hold vetoes in the UN Security Council and would most definitely vote against any intervention as both profit from the killing (Russia also sells arms to Khartoum). I apologize for any spelling/grammatical errors - I am at work!
April 13th, 2007 at 8:50 amThe problem in Dafur is a civil war and according to the socialist democrats we should not be in the middle. The UN has not acted so why should we? A humanitarian crisis seems not to be just cause as is evidenced by the opposition to the Iraq war. The duplicity in this regard leads one to believe that domestic politics are the real motive behind the democrats actions.
April 13th, 2007 at 9:20 amA civil war will continue so long as any fraction thinks it can seize power with violence. A genocide is easy to stop if the media exposes it, the offending State is unlikely to continue such criminal actions while the world documents the crime.
Unfortunately genocide often has international supporters wanting the profits of genocide, or who agree with the State’s policy that the victims are “primitives” or “sub-human” who should be eliminated for the benefit of others.
All Americans should be keenly aware of their largest mine, a combine gold & copper mine in West Papua designed & built by Bechtel and operated by Freeport McMoRan. The gold & copper was discovered in 1936 by Mobil & Chevron, their geologist called it “Ertsberg” (Mountain of Ore), but it was not until 1959 when the Dutch colony discovered there was gold flowing into the Arafura Sea and began searching for the mountain source, that Rockefeller’s Freeport Sulphur suddenly decided it was time to mine West Papua.
Inside the White House, McGeorge Bundy & Robert Komer told Kennedy that the US could only save itself from communism by forcing the Netherlands to sign the New York Agreement selling West Papua to Indonesian control in 1962. After General Suharto came to power by killing a half million Javanese potential opponents in 1966, Freeport Sulphur in 1967 got its first 30 year license from Indonesia to mine the Pacific nation of West Papua.
In 2004 the Yale University Law School published its report:
“Indonesian Human Rights Abuses in West Papua:
Application of the Law of Genocide to the History of Indonesian Control”
http://www.law.yale.edu/ documents/ pdf/ westpapuahrights.pdf
In 2005 the US Congressmen wrote Section 1115 asking questions about West Papua & Indonesia’s claim of sovereignty. In late 2005 Bechtel & Freeport & Exxon used their lobby the “US Indonesia Society” to petition the US Senate to remove the entire Section 1115.
Genocide is about denial, the US Congress was not even allowed to ask questions about West Papua. 40 years of genocide (according to Yale Law School) and colonial mining courtesy of the Indonesian military. GW Bush has allowed Indonesia to keep Jihadist training camps OPEN, he also lifted Clinton’s bans on the TNI, and even commenced U.S. funding & Aid to the Indonesian military which still works with Laskar Jihad and other al Qaeda networks. Why ? Gold & money ?
Will the people of America and the world forget their fear long enough to say no to colonization and genocide?
April 13th, 2007 at 12:21 pmWhat I really hate, beyond the atrocities afformentioned, is the perversion of such acts for political or monetary gain. I agree what happened in Sudan is something that shoud have and could have been prevented, but to blame an administration that actual wants to meet the pledge our country made to development assitance is silly. Before I get flammed, please tell me that some of your research didn’t come from wikipedia. As much as a disagree with the bush administration, I believe I have one of the largest rights too (enlisted marine), I don’t blame oil or corrupted GOP party members. Instead I like to be proactive in helping aid related causes for the country of Sudan (not the government), I actually speak out for help with letters to senators and my local paper. Insulting Bush is a fun hobby, but its seems like wasted effort, at least from my pedastal.
April 13th, 2007 at 6:38 pmNo, eight years of research reading things like the US Dept. of State Foreign Relations Summary, 1961-63, Vol XXIII, Southeast Asia: see http://wpik.org/ Src/ 950306_FRUS_XXIII_1961-63.html
Instead of reading one text like Legges’ fictions based on what Sukarno said he had done during the war and since; I also read better works by authors like CL Penders & Bernard Dahm; and I’ve read what the newspapers and other periodicals did & did not have to say about the people and events. And finally instead of accepting what other people claimed the “UN” had said, I have read the UN’s own records.
I found that Dahm, Penders, government records and the periodicals tell the same story as the Papuan people do; and that Legge, the Indonesian military and the US Indonesia Society tell a totally different story about what is happening & why.
I saw General Yudhoyono “warned the U.S. not to interfere in Indonesia’s domestic affairs after the U.S. House of Representatives recently approved a bill that questions the status of Papua” and that Bechtel’s lobby the US Indonesia Society did Jakarta’s bidding for the next several months telling the US Senate a bunch of lies and that the Congressmen didn’t know what they were doing when they ask questions in Section 1115.
For you, it is easy, you will find copies of the New York Times and other reports and records at http://wpik.org
April 13th, 2007 at 9:15 pmI had to invest the time to find source records, I even have films of many events of 1960-1969 which Jakarta and its associates want you to believe never happen. West Papua is a colony.
I’m watching the re-run on CSPAN2 right now and Natsios just said (towards the end of the session) that what’s happening in Darfur IS genocide - under pressure from Biden, admittedly, but he definitely said that genocide is being committed.
I agree that this guy has a sleazy political past and his attempts to downplay the atrocities to protect US political interests are despicable and unethical, but it’s just funny how everyone is so quick to comment on a two-minute clip taken out of context.
April 13th, 2007 at 9:47 pmmy apologies andrew, my comment was not in reference to West Papua or you, but to other commentorss. I agree with what you are trying to do, its a good thing. Keep it up and my apologies for you taking offense.
April 14th, 2007 at 12:51 pmTruth is being revealed. The man is for Godsakes from the United States. Every person that lives in Sudan and knows about Darfur history, conflict starting from nomadic herders (arabs) and farmers, would definately understand why killing is not racial as many westerners who only hog tv not knowing whether it’s truth or propagandas for oil.
Al Bashir is making efforts to stop this, yet I am not like many Sudanese here in America throwing blame for a falling needle noise. I have watched many sabotage documentaries based on fallacies, poor people acting for money. He has the right to fear new Iraq letting UN to gain access to region, yet I am not supporting Sudan gov’t.
Bless this man, he broke it down to the rest of the world.
April 14th, 2007 at 11:43 pmHow many more people have to be killed or displaced to count this as genocide ???
April 15th, 2007 at 5:53 pmHow many more people have to be killed to call this a genocide ???
April 15th, 2007 at 5:56 pmHow many more people have to be killed to call this a genocide ???
April 15th, 2007 at 5:57 pmDar fur ?????
May 31st, 2007 at 3:05 pmThere is no Dar Fur in Sudan.
The only Dar is Dar-al-Arab.
Ass Tight Ass Ass Worship
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
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Interestingly, this was on CNN last week.
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