Comments on: Deciphering McCain. http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/14/deciphering-mccain/ Thu, 26 Nov 2009 06:27:07 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: Kilo http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/14/deciphering-mccain/comment-page-1/#comment-3753204 Kilo Tue, 17 Apr 2007 11:13:19 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/14/deciphering-mccain/#comment-3753204 <strong>In 2005, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) believed in polls:</strong> Is this hypocrisy is it ? Via Pew polling who you recently cited on another matter, for the first 3 years of his Presidency, Bush had positive approval ratings. For the first two years of the war the majority of the public thought military action in Iraq was the right decision. Wanna check your own archives for evidence that polls only matter when they support your own postions ? Ever posted a single one that shows your own positions were a minority opinion ? Yeah. You know the answer to those questions. In 2005, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) believed in polls:

Is this hypocrisy is it ?
Via Pew polling who you recently cited on another matter, for the first 3 years of his Presidency, Bush had positive approval ratings.

For the first two years of the war the majority of the public thought military action in Iraq was the right decision.

Wanna check your own archives for evidence that polls only matter when they support your own postions ?
Ever posted a single one that shows your own positions were a minority opinion ?

Yeah. You know the answer to those questions.

]]> By: Chinese politburo http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/14/deciphering-mccain/comment-page-1/#comment-3751024 Chinese politburo Mon, 16 Apr 2007 10:10:07 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/14/deciphering-mccain/#comment-3751024 With enemies like this (i.e. Bush), who needs friends!!! Hahahaahahahaahah With enemies like this (i.e. Bush), who needs friends!!!

Hahahaahahahaahah

]]> By: Chinese politburo http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/14/deciphering-mccain/comment-page-1/#comment-3751020 Chinese politburo Mon, 16 Apr 2007 09:49:03 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/14/deciphering-mccain/#comment-3751020 Pls stay in Iraq, pleassse stay in Iraq, pleassssee stay in Iraq. Pls don’t build new schools or roads or rebuild New Orleans or improve health care. Pls just stay in Iraq and become a failed state back home. Better still fight Iran! hahaahahahahahahaah Pls stay in Iraq, pleassse stay in Iraq, pleassssee stay in Iraq.

Pls don’t build new schools or roads or rebuild New Orleans or improve health care.

Pls just stay in Iraq and become a failed state back home. Better still fight Iran!

hahaahahahahahahaah

]]> By: Jimbo http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/14/deciphering-mccain/comment-page-1/#comment-3741310 Jimbo Sun, 15 Apr 2007 07:49:55 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/14/deciphering-mccain/#comment-3741310 MCCAIN IS A COMPLETE CORRUPT THING......... AND I AM SURE HE MOST LIKELY IS RELATED TO A VERY SERIOUS SCANDAL WITHIN THE WHITE HOUSE ACCORDING TO CREW, SO HERE'S THE LINK TO UNDERCOVER THESE PARASITES, THUGS, HOODLUMS, AND LEECHES OF THE VERY LATEST SCANDAL. OF COURSE MCCAIN IS MOST LIKELY WITHIN THIS CRIMINAL ACTIVITY AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT CREW CALLS IT -- CRIMINAL ACTIVITY AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL -- CREW'S LINK http://www.citizensforethics.org/node/27637 MCCAIN IS A COMPLETE CORRUPT THING………

AND I AM SURE HE MOST LIKELY IS RELATED TO A VERY
SERIOUS SCANDAL WITHIN THE WHITE HOUSE ACCORDING
TO CREW, SO HERE’S THE LINK TO UNDERCOVER THESE
PARASITES, THUGS, HOODLUMS, AND LEECHES OF THE
VERY LATEST SCANDAL. OF COURSE MCCAIN IS MOST
LIKELY WITHIN THIS CRIMINAL ACTIVITY AND THAT IS
EXACTLY WHAT CREW CALLS IT — CRIMINAL ACTIVITY AT
THE HIGHEST LEVEL — CREW’S LINK

http://www.citizensforethics.org/node/27637

]]> By: DmitriG http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/14/deciphering-mccain/comment-page-1/#comment-3740778 DmitriG Sun, 15 Apr 2007 07:21:31 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/14/deciphering-mccain/#comment-3740778 Further, I'm very interested to know what ThinkProgress or any of its readers think 'belief in polls' consists in. If you 'believe in polls,' does this means that you think you ought to always vote according to the latest public opinion poll? Does this mean that legislators in Va ought to pass an ammendment to their constitution banning gay marriage (supported to 53 percent of their electorate)? Ought we similarly outlaw flagburning (73 percent of the American electorate)? Ought we have invaded Iraq (77 percent support at the time of the invasion)? Ought we teach intelligent design in the classroom (55 percent support)? I would hope that no legislator would ever hold such a 'belief in polls,' and I'm fairly certain that John McCain does not nor has ever held such a 'belief.' There is a vast difference between being '<em>glad</em>' that the electorate agrees with you and yeilding the authority of governance <em>to</em> the electorate. There is, again, a vast difference between acknowledging that a politician must be attentive to civil unrest and assuming that the reigns of the military be placed in the hands of the citizenry. I have been a fan of this website for a while, but frivolous stories like these have been waring my patience a bit thin. This is not a political matter. Liberals and conservatives do not each have their own forms of logic. On no account are the above quotes inconsistent, and none of them entail 'belief in polls' in any obvious interpretation of that phrase. Further, I’m very interested to know what ThinkProgress or any of its readers think ‘belief in polls’ consists in.

If you ‘believe in polls,’ does this means that you think you ought to always vote according to the latest public opinion poll? Does this mean that legislators in Va ought to pass an ammendment to their constitution banning gay marriage (supported to 53 percent of their electorate)? Ought we similarly outlaw flagburning (73 percent of the American electorate)? Ought we have invaded Iraq (77 percent support at the time of the invasion)? Ought we teach intelligent design in the classroom (55 percent support)?

I would hope that no legislator would ever hold such a ‘belief in polls,’ and I’m fairly certain that John McCain does not nor has ever held such a ‘belief.’ There is a vast difference between being ‘glad‘ that the electorate agrees with you and yeilding the authority of governance to the electorate. There is, again, a vast difference between acknowledging that a politician must be attentive to civil unrest and assuming that the reigns of the military be placed in the hands of the citizenry.

I have been a fan of this website for a while, but frivolous stories like these have been waring my patience a bit thin. This is not a political matter. Liberals and conservatives do not each have their own forms of logic. On no account are the above quotes inconsistent, and none of them entail ‘belief in polls’ in any obvious interpretation of that phrase.

]]> By: DmitriG http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/14/deciphering-mccain/comment-page-1/#comment-3740174 DmitriG Sun, 15 Apr 2007 06:51:12 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/14/deciphering-mccain/#comment-3740174 20 - "USA is a democracy. Please go hide in a hole and don’t come out, you second-class thinker." The article claims that McCain was changing his opinion. That means that he held one opinion on wednesday and another <em>inconsistent</em> opinion on thursday. When I say that there is nothing incoherent or contradictory about these three positions, I was simply stating that they can all be embraced together without contradiction. I was not thereby endorsing those opinions myself. I'm not sure what you mean by the 'second-class thinker' comment, but since you bring it up, we do <em>not</em> live in a pure democracy, we live in a constitutional republic, with elected representatives. And these representatives are absolutely permitted to diverge from public opinion polls. Since your previous comment leads me to think you might miss this: none of this means that I support McCain or the Iraq war. I'm <em>only</em> objecting to the insinuation that McCain was being inconsistent with these three quotes, because, as a matter of pure logic, he was not. This is not a statement of opinion, or something that can really be debated. The three statements are logically cotenable. 20 – “USA is a democracy. Please go hide in a hole and don’t come out, you second-class thinker.”

The article claims that McCain was changing his opinion. That means that he held one opinion on wednesday and another inconsistent opinion on thursday. When I say that there is nothing incoherent or contradictory about these three positions, I was simply stating that they can all be embraced together without contradiction. I was not thereby endorsing those opinions myself.

I’m not sure what you mean by the ’second-class thinker’ comment, but since you bring it up, we do not live in a pure democracy, we live in a constitutional republic, with elected representatives. And these representatives are absolutely permitted to diverge from public opinion polls.

Since your previous comment leads me to think you might miss this: none of this means that I support McCain or the Iraq war. I’m only objecting to the insinuation that McCain was being inconsistent with these three quotes, because, as a matter of pure logic, he was not. This is not a statement of opinion, or something that can really be debated. The three statements are logically cotenable.

]]> By: JPark http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/14/deciphering-mccain/comment-page-1/#comment-3737842 JPark Sun, 15 Apr 2007 03:47:12 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/14/deciphering-mccain/#comment-3737842 #21 Well, in some cases not looking at polls is a good thing. Like in the 60's on civil rights. The minority should be protected. There is nothing to protect them from in this case, however. The polls are clear the American people are sick to death of this pathetic attempt to force another people to adopt our political system and it is only going to get more lopsided the longer it goes on. #21 Well, in some cases not looking at polls is a good thing. Like in the 60’s on civil rights. The minority should be protected. There is nothing to protect them from in this case, however. The polls are clear the American people are sick to death of this pathetic attempt to force another people to adopt our political system and it is only going to get more lopsided the longer it goes on.

]]> By: USA http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/14/deciphering-mccain/comment-page-1/#comment-3736853 USA Sun, 15 Apr 2007 02:53:15 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/14/deciphering-mccain/#comment-3736853 15. "There’s absolutely nothing incoherent or contradictory about saying 1) that you don’t think that polls should be the sole decider of policy" Are you joking? USA is a democracy. Please go hide in a hole and don't come out, you second-class thinker. 15. “There’s absolutely nothing incoherent or contradictory about saying 1) that you don’t think that polls should be the sole decider of policy”

Are you joking? USA is a democracy. Please go hide in a hole and don’t come out, you second-class thinker.

]]> By: Roket http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/14/deciphering-mccain/comment-page-1/#comment-3736511 Roket Sun, 15 Apr 2007 02:31:01 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/14/deciphering-mccain/#comment-3736511 I’m wondering why the American people are stuck with footing the bill for a McCain Campaign photo op in some Baghdad Marketplace. What was the purpose of McCain’s visit to Baghdad other than to prove that, yes, you could actually walk the streets of Baghdad (with a 100 troop escort plus 3 Apache helicopters and 2 Gunships. Oh, and snipers). I’m trying to picture Pelosi doing the same thing, but no one is that stupid. Well, except for a Republican Presidential Candidate, that is. Oh yea, isn’t it about time Bush paid a visit over there? I’m wondering why the American people are stuck with footing the bill for a McCain Campaign photo op in some Baghdad Marketplace. What was the purpose of McCain’s visit to Baghdad other than to prove that, yes, you could actually walk the streets of Baghdad (with a 100 troop escort plus 3 Apache helicopters and 2 Gunships. Oh, and snipers). I’m trying to picture Pelosi doing the same thing, but no one is that stupid. Well, except for a Republican Presidential Candidate, that is. Oh yea, isn’t it about time Bush paid a visit over there?

]]> By: Republicans Are The Fear And Smear Party http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/14/deciphering-mccain/comment-page-1/#comment-3734753 Republicans Are The Fear And Smear Party Sun, 15 Apr 2007 00:52:22 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/14/deciphering-mccain/#comment-3734753 Oops! I forgot that he does like polls again. I have never been able to keep up with a flip-flopper. Oops! I forgot that he does like polls again. I have never been able to keep up with a flip-flopper.

]]> By: Republicans Are The Fear And Smear Party http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/14/deciphering-mccain/comment-page-1/#comment-3734665 Republicans Are The Fear And Smear Party Sun, 15 Apr 2007 00:48:29 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/14/deciphering-mccain/#comment-3734665 McCain sez: "I do believe that history shows us Americans will not continue to support an overseas engagement involving the loss of American lives for an unlimited period of time unless they see some success.” This statement is so 'out there" that it baffles the mind. Does he even know that what he is saying is that if we see some success that we will continue to support an overseas engagement involving the loss of American lives for an unlimited period of time? It's crazy statements like this that have driven his own poll numbers down to third place...right behind Fred Thompson who hasn't even entered the race. Polls show that the majority of Americans do want our troops out of Iraq. Maybe this is why he suddenly doesn't like polls again. McCain sez: “I do believe that history shows us Americans will not continue to support an overseas engagement involving the loss of American lives for an unlimited period of time unless they see some success.” This statement is so ‘out there” that it baffles the mind. Does he even know that what he is saying is that if we see some success that we will continue to support an overseas engagement involving the loss of American lives for an unlimited period of time? It’s crazy statements like this that have driven his own poll numbers down to third place…right behind Fred Thompson who hasn’t even entered the race. Polls show that the majority of Americans do want our troops out of Iraq. Maybe this is why he suddenly doesn’t like polls again.

]]> By: Kate Henry http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/14/deciphering-mccain/comment-page-1/#comment-3734124 Kate Henry Sun, 15 Apr 2007 00:27:49 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/14/deciphering-mccain/#comment-3734124 "if the Bush administration’s plan had not produced visible signs of progress by the time a McCain presidency began, he might be forced — if only by the will of public opinion — to end American involvement in Iraq. " Why does this have to happen when his presidency begins. The signs are already showing that no progress has been made in 5 years and the public wants us out of there. So, if he really means this, why does he not mean it until he is President (like that will ever happen). What is he saying, make me President and then I'll get us out of there. What a jerk and who does he think is listening to him much less believing him these days? “if the Bush administration’s plan had not produced visible signs of progress by the time a McCain presidency began, he might be forced — if only by the will of public opinion — to end American involvement in Iraq. ”

Why does this have to happen when his presidency begins. The signs are already showing that no progress has been made in 5 years and the public wants us out of there. So, if he really means this, why does he not mean it until he is President (like that will ever happen). What is he saying, make me President and then I’ll get us out of there. What a jerk and who does he think is listening to him much less believing him these days?

]]> By: DmitriG http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/14/deciphering-mccain/comment-page-1/#comment-3733739 DmitriG Sat, 14 Apr 2007 23:58:38 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/14/deciphering-mccain/#comment-3733739 <strong>There's absolutely nothing incoherent or contradictory about saying 1) that you don't think that polls should be the sole decider of policy, 2) that you are glad that the american people feel the same way you do, and 3) that, in the face of overwhelming opposition, it may be most prudent and expedient for a politican to yeild and adopt a policy that they do not wholeheartedly endorse. These inane accusations of 'flip-flopping' - which suppose any form of changing one's mind to be a deficit in a leader - were as frivolous when the GOP used them against John Kerry as they are here. I would hope that you would at least have the foresight to recognize that these three positions are not, in point of fact, contradictory before you published them with your accusation of flip-flopping. But, more to the point, why on earth have you decided to adopt the cheap rhetorical devices of Karl Rove?</strong> There’s absolutely nothing incoherent or contradictory about saying 1) that you don’t think that polls should be the sole decider of policy, 2) that you are glad that the american people feel the same way you do, and 3) that, in the face of overwhelming opposition, it may be most prudent and expedient for a politican to yeild and adopt a policy that they do not wholeheartedly endorse.

These inane accusations of ‘flip-flopping’ – which suppose any form of changing one’s mind to be a deficit in a leader – were as frivolous when the GOP used them against John Kerry as they are here. I would hope that you would at least have the foresight to recognize that these three positions are not, in point of fact, contradictory before you published them with your accusation of flip-flopping. But, more to the point, why on earth have you decided to adopt the cheap rhetorical devices of Karl Rove?

]]> By: USA http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/14/deciphering-mccain/comment-page-1/#comment-3733566 USA Sat, 14 Apr 2007 23:48:55 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/14/deciphering-mccain/#comment-3733566 CENSORSHIP CENSORSHIP my post was deleted CENSORSHIP CENSORSHIP

my post was deleted

]]> By: joe http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/14/deciphering-mccain/comment-page-1/#comment-3733441 joe Sat, 14 Apr 2007 23:43:17 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/14/deciphering-mccain/#comment-3733441 A real leader would be able to decide on his own when the time has come to pull the plug. Or, heaven forbid, actually have the foresight to see it coming. McCain can't conceive of any set of circumstances that would lead him to wind down the war absent public opinion forcing him. A real leader would be able to decide on his own when the time has come to pull the plug. Or, heaven forbid, actually have the foresight to see it coming.

McCain can’t conceive of any set of circumstances that would lead him to wind down the war absent public opinion forcing him.

]]> By: Tobey Tall http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/14/deciphering-mccain/comment-page-1/#comment-3733091 Tobey Tall Sat, 14 Apr 2007 23:18:13 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/14/deciphering-mccain/#comment-3733091 Proof then that bush wants to end office with the war still going on Proof then that bush wants to end office with the war still going on

]]> By: Vance http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/14/deciphering-mccain/comment-page-1/#comment-3732974 Vance Sat, 14 Apr 2007 23:14:12 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/14/deciphering-mccain/#comment-3732974 Does he really believe that if the public is anywhere near the "Point" he speaks of (Which I belive we are) that they will elect a pro war canidate? Put down the glass pipe old man, you had your shot. Does he really believe that if the public is anywhere near the “Point” he speaks of (Which I belive we are) that they will elect a pro war canidate? Put down the glass pipe old man, you had your shot.

]]> By: old hack http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/14/deciphering-mccain/comment-page-1/#comment-3732955 old hack Sat, 14 Apr 2007 23:13:30 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/14/deciphering-mccain/#comment-3732955 Is Hillary president yet? Is Hillary president yet?

]]> By: Uncle Ho http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/14/deciphering-mccain/comment-page-1/#comment-3732589 Uncle Ho Sat, 14 Apr 2007 22:53:54 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/14/deciphering-mccain/#comment-3732589 I guess I'm not the only deviant here. heh. I guess I’m not the only deviant here. heh.

]]> By: RB-Chicago http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/14/deciphering-mccain/comment-page-1/#comment-3732587 RB-Chicago Sat, 14 Apr 2007 22:51:23 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/14/deciphering-mccain/#comment-3732587 WHY are we paying attention to this fool?? HE'S OVER THE HILL - SENILE - AND SHOULD JUST GO AWAY! WHY are we paying attention to this fool??

HE’S OVER THE HILL – SENILE – AND SHOULD JUST GO AWAY!

]]>