Bolton: We have no interest in Iraq’s well-being.
By on Apr 16th, 2007 at 12:56 pm
Bolton: We have no interest in Iraq’s well-being.
Via Andrew Sullivan: “What staggers me about this clip is Bolton’s point-blank view that the US had no responsibility to impose order after the invasion, and no responsibility for security within the country. Bolton actually says that the only error Bush really made was not giving the Iraqis ‘a copy of the Federalist papers and saying, “Good luck.”‘ Yes, he says he’s exaggerating for effect, but he is conveying the gist of the policy. The casual recklessness and arrogance of these people never cease to amaze. The world is theirs to play with — and the victims of predictable and predicted violence are left to help themselves.”
View Most Popular
Advertisement
What We're About
What We're Fighting For
What We're Fighting Against
Featured
Subscribe to the Progress Report
Topic CloudView topics sorted by popularity
Afghanistan
Bachmann
Beck
Boehner
Bush
Cheney
Civil Rights
Congress
Corporate Ethics
Dobbs
Economy
Education
Election
Energy
Environment
Ethics
Fox News
Gingrich
Global Warming
Health Care
Immigration
International Relations
Iraq
Justice
LGBT
Lieberman
Limbaugh
Maddow
McCain
Media
Military
Obama
Palin
Pelosi
Public Plan
Race
Radical Right
Religion
Sports
Steele
Steve King
Stimulus
Tea Parties
Technology
Women's Rights
Visit Our Affiliated Sites
Reports
In-depth studies on select topics
Got a hot tip?
Have a hot news tip? We'd love to hear from you. Use the form below to send us the latest.
ArchivesBlog Roll
Well, duh!? AMERICA’s national security interest is paramount — not Iraq’s – I never did buy into Colin Powell’s “Pottery Barn” thinking.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:00 pmRepublicans are sociopaths.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:00 pmBolton: “We broke it. You fix it.”
April 16th, 2007 at 1:00 pmFinally, someone in DC is being honest for once.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:01 pmWelcome to hell. And we cannot claim that we ended up here by accident, we have been following the highway signs religiously (pun intended) for the past 12 years.
Well, here we are. Now what?
April 16th, 2007 at 1:01 pmWell, duh!? AMERICA’s national security interest is paramount — not Iraq’s – I never did buy into Colin Powell’s “Pottery Barn†thinking.
Comment by Jake — April 16, 2007 @ 1:00 pm
Imagine you had this attitude with your neighbors. Let’s say you had a problem with one of them: you disagree with the way they run their household or you envy some of the plants they have in their landscaping.
Do you go on their property, beat the crap out of the people that live in the house, take their plants, and then justify it by saying, “At least I’m in a better situation, now?”
Idiot.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:04 pmWait a minute, if we have “no responsibility to impose order” why are we still there? If we have “no responsibility to impose order”, why is the GOP so concerned with what will happen if we begin a draw doown of troop levels?
If we must impose order in order to keep from “fighting them here” why don’t we have a responsibility to do so? Am i missing the logic train here?
My head is spinning.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:05 pmi can’t watch… i don’t know how i got through the daily show interview recently… except that i was fascinated, somehow…
and i agree with sullivan about this:
he says he’s exaggerating for effect, but he is conveying the gist of the policy. The casual recklessness and arrogance of these people never cease to amaze.
i just wanna spit on people like bolton…
April 16th, 2007 at 1:05 pmIsn’t Bolton on one of Giuliani’s foreign policy advisors?
If so, someone should ask Rudy his view.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:09 pmCompassionate Conservatism !!!
April 16th, 2007 at 1:11 pmThe more they speak, the more they show their pure evil soul.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:11 pmAnd to illustrate my point with crystal clarity is the “patriotic” american in comment #1. For that person, and millions of other “patriotic” americans, the cost of 600,000 plus INNOCENT Iraqi lives, plus the torture, oppression, and terrorism of the remaining 25 million Iraqis is justifiable under the banner of “national security interest”.
We as a nation knowingly terrorize and murder thousands upon thousands of innocent foreigners and even though it is publicly known that it was wrong from the outset and continues to only get worse, we refuse to stop it because doing so would put at risk not our security, but our current level of creature comforts.
As I said before, welcome to hell.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:12 pmI don’t agree with Bolton’s politics, but you must admit his mustache is amazing!
April 16th, 2007 at 1:13 pmBolton is the personification of the Ugly American and Jake is his sniveling drooling piss boy.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:14 pmFor the record, I would personally torture any terrorist if I knew it would save 300 million American lives.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:14 pmThe disturbing thing is that there are many Independents and Democrats who also agree with this repugnant interventionist policy. There’s this nosey parker aspect to WASP ideology that really offends the rest of the world.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:17 pmUnderlying bolton’s view has to be the idea that some human lives are more valuable than others. In other words, this man and his ilk are FASCISTS!
April 16th, 2007 at 1:17 pmIf anyone NOT on the “Ignore List” wants to debate whether “Bolton is the personification of the Ugly American and Jake is his sniveling drooling piss boy” qualfies as a “personal attack” let me know.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:18 pm#15. Would you also torture an American to save 700,000 Iraqi lives?
April 16th, 2007 at 1:18 pmFor the record, I would personally torture any terrorist if I knew it would save 300 million American lives.
Comment by Jake — April 16, 2007 @ 1:14 pm
Okay. What about killing 3,000 Americans and who knows how many innocent Iraqis on the off-chance it MIGHT save some American lives?
Seriously, Jake, you have a myopic view of the world.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:18 pmRE-DICULOUS. The man is out of his mind.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:19 pmJake,
Don’t forget to wait for shake. Piss boy.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:21 pmFor the record, I would NOT torture an American to save 700,000 Iraqi lives. As for killing 3,000 Americans and who knows how many innocent Iraqis on the off-chance it MIGHT save some American lives, I would not do that either (of course, I am not the President of the United States charged with making that decision, but if I were, I would have gone into Iraq just the same — in hindsight, I would have sent in double or triple the troops).
April 16th, 2007 at 1:24 pmIs Jake’s ignore list similar to Dwight Schrute shunning Andy?
April 16th, 2007 at 1:26 pm#15,
For the record I personally hold all 300 million americans responsible for the torture, murder, and maiming of millions of innocent people.
The accountability moment is coming, and I do not think the excuses of “I wanted to do something but I was too busy worrying about my own comfort” or “our national security is more important than the lives of hundreds of thousands of innocent brown people” is going to carry much weight.
Get your affairs in order.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:26 pm#23, Why wouldn’t you do it? It is fine to say you wouldn’t, why wouldn’t you?
April 16th, 2007 at 1:28 pmI have/had friends who are conservatives and this is a familiar refrain: we should have just gone in, toppled Hussein, then got out. So we could go in and topple Iran. Essentially, these people, Bolton’s type, espouse a ClockWork Orange, ‘Droogies’ form of foreign policy, where you invade countries, wreck them, then leave to visit their neighbors.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:29 pmBased on Bolton’s interview on The Daily Show, the man is just plain dumb.
Let him talk and make an ass of himself, and of the movement that he holds dear, because the American People are no longer in the mood to buy it.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:29 pmBolton is a psychopath. Jake is an idiot.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:30 pmJohn Bolton is another typical Bushevite psycho/sicko.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:31 pmis the blogger of this forum really outrage? Isn’t this exactly what Liberals in Congress say what should have happened? in fact they say that we should have never taken Hussien down and allowed him to keep on going with his torture, rape and mass graves camps…
it never cease to amaze me the level of stupidity and hypocrisy on extreme left wing blogs like thinkprogress.org and others.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:31 pmFor the record, I would personally torture any terrorist if I knew it would save 300 million American lives.
Comment by Jake — April 16, 2007 @ 1:14 pm
What you, and your fellow chickenhawks fail to realize is that when you torture a suspected terrorist that’s not the same as torturing a terrorist. So many have been released from Abu after being tortured… why? Because they were found out to be innocent. So really what you’re saying is that you’d personally torture anyone from any other country if you thought it might save your ass. You’re also ignoring the fact that information obtained from torture is inherently useless… stick someone’s head under water for minutes on end and they’re likely to tell you anything you want.
I remember the day when the U.S. was the good guy and the terrorists were bad. These days, and after watching that Bolton video, it’s hard to tell them apart.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:31 pmJake the Patriotic Joke must have his own copy of Malleus Maleficarum at hand. Sadly, Jake, your kind tried this before and merely tortured, burned and hanged thousands of innocents. The rationale of extracting confessions of witchcraft were the same; destroy the body, but save the soul.
Jake & Patrick1trickPony both have this idea that Presumption of Innocence, the Geneva Conventions, and Habeus Corpus are obsolete and naive ideas. Of course, without them, what exactly was the point of the American Experiment? Bolton’s recommendation of The Federalist Papers should be met by Iraqis with sardonic laughter.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:31 pmJake -
So, 1 American life is worth more than 700,000 Iraqis?
Why?
April 16th, 2007 at 1:32 pm#29 Looks like we’re chanelling the same mental messages here today. I just sent in a post mentioning that Bolton is another Psycho/Sicko. I don’t give Village Idiots like Jake even a nod of recognition. His ilk are better off totally ignored because they feed off the anger and incredulousness of others.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:32 pmOne of the things Bolton said particularly truly amazed me. He said that it was never an American claim that Saddam’s WMD program constituted an “imminent threat” and was the British “problem,” and the Americans said that the threat was the regime itself.” Gee…I seem to remember Condi, Bush et.al. repeating endlessly how “the smoking gun could be a nuclear cloud. ” Another interesting claim of his…he didn’t ever agree about the importance of democracy in Iraq as part of the rationale for the invasion…he was only agreeing with Bush due to “loyalty.” Wasn’t he, at the time of the invasion, one of Bush’s “advisors?”
One more for the Hague.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:32 pmDidn’t Al Gore AND Bush both not run in none nation building? so why the outrage about this and there was no outrage against Al gore?
once again, the left wing selective outrage is pathetic.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:33 pmBush’s pathetic attempt to prop up his own lack of ego by placing puppets and fools like himself in positions of power. Never let it be said that Bush is ever one-upped by someone on his staff. It doesn’t happen. They’re all idiots the same or bigger than he is.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:34 pmLiberals right now want us out, they don’t want the USA to impose any order in Iraq…..so why is the writer of this thread supposedly outrage? He should be rejoicing at what Bolton said since it is what Liberals want…..
April 16th, 2007 at 1:34 pmJeffery Stewart:
You are asking why I would NOT torture an American to save 700,000 Iraqi lives or, even worse, kill 3,000 Americans?? That’s a strange question. I guess the answer would be because I would have no right to do so.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:34 pmGood points, Captain Kirk.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:35 pmAll you have to do to discredit any of these idiot trolls is ask them why we went to war or why we are still engaged in war and they can’t answer it at all. Then they usually skulk back into their dark, slippery corner.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:35 pmWhy do we care what JOHN BOLTON thinks? This is a 2-bit hack who landed in a job he was unqualified for because our dictator took advantage of an obscure phrase in the Constitution which was intended to be in place because it could take WEEKS to convene a Congress in the 18th century. The time for recess appointments is long past, and they should be ammended out ASAP. Along with the electoral college, but that’s another topic…
April 16th, 2007 at 1:36 pmCaptain Kirk -
Hypocrisy and stupidity? Have you been sleeping the past 6 years with a Republican Congress and Neo-Conservative Administration?
It would take extreme effort by Democrats to even begin to approach the levels of hypocrisy and stupidity demonstrated by that crack group of ‘leaders.’
April 16th, 2007 at 1:36 pmFor the record. I’m so glad Jake’s not president. I also want to go on the record saying Both Jake and Bolton are great examples of what is wrong with the country. For the record of course.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:36 pmFor the record, I would personally torture any terrorist if I knew it would save 300 million American lives.
Comment by Jake — April 16, 2007 @ 1:14 pm
Please, YOU would torture 100 innocent people to stop your “bosses” from bitching at you. You are a sad, scared patsy doing dirty work for this administration.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:36 pmIncidentally, Captain Kirk is Jake’s alter ego. Firehead is another one of his multiple personalities.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:36 pmis the blogger of this forum really outrage? Isn’t this exactly what Liberals in Congress say what should have happened? in fact they say that we should have never taken Hussien down and allowed him to keep on going with his torture, rape and mass graves camps…
Comment by Captain Kirk — April 16, 2007 @ 1:31 pm
You’re comfortable ignoring the torture, rape & mass graves elsewhere in the world. Hell, you’re comfortable ignoring it when it’s shown that your own govt is doing it. And were you one of the Americans that stood up & complained when the U.S. govt was supplying Iraq with the weapons that were used to kill the Kurds? It was convenient to arm Saddam then, not use useful now so you remove him & a couple hundred thousand Iraqi civilians. Your hypocrisy is the real joke.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:36 pm#40. If your actions are determined and inhibited by rights, what right do you have to torture anyone?
April 16th, 2007 at 1:37 pmThe outrage is over the pure amoebas Bush puts his faith in and names to positions in his administration. That’s the outrage.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:37 pmDidn’t Al Gore AND Bush both not run in none nation building? so why the outrage about this and there was no outrage against Al gore?
once again, the left wing selective outrage is pathetic.
Comment by Captain Kirk — April 16, 2007 @ 1:33 pm
Psst… Bush is President. It’s HIS stubborness and dumb decisions we have to deal with.
Gore ‘lost.’
April 16th, 2007 at 1:38 pmDon’t let the Captain Kirk moniker fool you. It’s jake, jake-off, and more half baked jaking off.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:38 pmJake,
I didn’t know you had the right to torture anyone let alone an American. Looking through the Constitution I see no such right.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:39 pmIncidentally, Captain Kirk is Jake’s alter ego. Firehead is another one of his multiple personalities.
Comment by ForTruth
And who are you, using my name?
April 16th, 2007 at 1:39 pmFor the record, President Bush never said Saddam was an “imminent threat†— he said we cannot afford to wait until the threat became imminent — big difference, don’t you think? Go look it up on Google if you don’t believe me.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:39 pmJake –
To repeat the question you ignored earlier:
So, 1 American life is worth more than 700,000 Iraqis?
Why?
April 16th, 2007 at 1:40 pmIf anyone NOT on the “Ignore List†wants to debate whether “Bolton is the personification of the Ugly American and Jake is his sniveling drooling piss boy
Comment by Jake — April 16, 2007 @ 1:18 pm
What is the question? There doesn’t seem to be any debate needed on this post.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:40 pmMy first guess at who is using my name would be Rachel.
Even though she “let me go”, it appears she really didn’t.
Be yourself, not me.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:40 pmLOL, Captain Kirk — they are so scared, they think we are the same person ; )
April 16th, 2007 at 1:41 pmFor the record, I would personally torture Jake because I am a sadistic degenerate who would simply enjoy it.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:41 pmIs Jake’s ignore list similar to Dwight Schrute shunning Andy?
Comment by Mark — April 16, 2007 @ 1:26 pm
Absolutely. Except Dwight is way cooler than Jake. And Dwight has a concience and heart. The list is the same but the motivation is way uglier for Jake’s list.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:43 pm#53 -
Your mistake is looking at the ACTUAL Constitution. Jake and other neo-conservatives have their own: The Constitution : We Know What’s Best Edition.
In that edition, the right to torture people is right next to Article 42, Section 10: “Instead of President, we call him King. Whenever the King feels like it, he can ignore anything in this document he wants. Just because.”
April 16th, 2007 at 1:43 pmJeffrey Stewart and Crump’s Brother:
The rights to self-defense and defense of others are well-established in our legal system, even if they are not mentioned in the Constitution. Much more well-established than the right to an abortion. If I had to torture one terrorist to save 300 million lives, there’s not a prosecutor / jury in the country that would charge / convict me. Next question?
April 16th, 2007 at 1:43 pmFor the record, President Bush never said Saddam was an “imminent threat†— he said we cannot afford to wait until the threat became imminent — big difference, don’t you think? Go look it up on Google if you don’t believe me.
Comment by Jake — April 16, 2007 @ 1:39 pm
We cannot afford to wait until kittens become an imminent threat. We must take out all kittens.
See how stupid that sounds?
April 16th, 2007 at 1:44 pmDidn’t Al Gore AND Bush both not run in none nation building? so why the outrage about this and there was no outrage against Al gore?
once again, the left wing selective outrage is pathetic.
Comment by Captain Kirk — April 16, 2007 @ 1:33 pm
Wow. Can you even be that stupid?
April 16th, 2007 at 1:45 pm#
For the record, I would personally torture any terrorist if I knew it would save 300 million American lives.
Comment by Jake — April 16, 2007 @ 1:14 pm
You are asking why I would NOT torture an American to save 700,000 Iraqi lives or, even worse, kill 3,000 Americans?? That’s a strange question. I guess the answer would be because I would have no right to do so.
Comment by Jake — April 16, 2007 @ 1:34 pm
So Jake. What gives you the right to torture a (suspected) terrorist (accused) and not torture an American to save Iraqi lives? I’d also like to point out that you HAVE killed over 3,000 Americans (and maimed over 20,000) by supporting the invasion and occupation of Iraq.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:46 pmFor the record, we have no King but Jesus — if any NOT on the “Ignore List” wishes to discuss, let me know.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:46 pmWhen Saudis kill 3,000 innocent Americans it’s called “Al Qaeda Terrorism” and warrants the barbaric extermination and terrorism of an innocent race of people, except Saudis of course.
When Americans kill 1,000,000 or so innocent Iraqis and Afghanis it’s called “Spreading freedom and democracy” and our claim of following the will of some “god” is expected to provide some impenetrable shield of justification.
Can someone logically explain this without having their head spin in circles?
April 16th, 2007 at 1:47 pmis the blogger of this forum really outrage?
it never cease to amaze me the level of stupidity and hypocrisy on extreme left wing blogs like thinkprogress.org and others.
Comment by Captain Kirk — April 16, 2007 @ 1:31 pm
Read your first sentence and call us stupid. If there is nothing for you to learn here and we’re so stupid we’re accomplishing nothing, why are you here?
April 16th, 2007 at 1:47 pmJake,
Many vigilantes have been tried and convicted in our country where the rule of law applies to everyone.
You are not the judge. You have no right to torture anyone. Our country did sign and ratify the Geneva Conventions. It is the law of the land.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:48 pmOnce a Chickenhawk NeoCon Utopian, always a Chickenhawk NeoCon Utopian.
Invading and then Occupying Iraq will go down as the worst foreign policy action ever made by a US President.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:48 pmSo…that means Bolt-head is for a withdrawl??
If not then why in his twisted logic are we there???
I guess he won’t be invited to future PNAC or Neocon sorties.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:49 pm#63:
http://criminal.lawyers.com/Criminal-Law–Defenses-FAQ.html#four
In otherwords, nope. That ‘defense’ doesn’t cut it.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:50 pmJake,
So you not have tortured Terry Nichols to save all those people killed by American Christian Terrorist Tim McVeigh?
April 16th, 2007 at 1:51 pmWell, duh!? AMERICA’s national security interest is paramount — not Iraq’s – I never did buy into Colin Powell’s “Pottery Barn†thinking.
Comment by Jake — April 16, 2007 @ 1:00 pm
Well at least you’re honest, unlike most of your CON friends that claim to have Iraq’s best interest at heart.
It’s nice to see you believe we should just allow it melt down, like Afghanistan did before 9 eleven. I can’t possibly see anything wrong with that happening.
You’re an idiot Jake*ss, but you already knew that FACT.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:52 pmonce again, Bolton said what Liberals want right now….so why the outrage.
liberals want America out of Iraq regardless of the level of stability in Iraq. so why the outrage? once again typical liberal selective outrage.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:52 pmFor the record, we have no King but Jesus — if any NOT on the “Ignore List†wishes to discuss, let me know.
Comment by Jake — April 16, 2007 @ 1:46 pm
I suppose anyone willing to swallow neo-conservative talking points is also willing to swallow nice stories about a nice man in a 2,000 year old book that has been edited hundreds of times by men with ulterior motives, too.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:53 pmshane,
i come in here to laugh at the huge level stupidity and hypocrisy that is so prevelent on extreme left wing blogs. :)
April 16th, 2007 at 1:53 pmJake –
To repeat the question you ignored twice earlier:
So, 1 American life is worth more than 700,000 Iraqis?
Why?
(What’s wrong? Tough questions a little too tough to answer?)
April 16th, 2007 at 1:54 pmWhat’s the question, Crump’s Brother?
April 16th, 2007 at 1:55 pmonce again, Bolton said what Liberals want right now….so why the outrage.
liberals want America out of Iraq regardless of the level of stability in Iraq. so why the outrage? once again typical liberal selective outrage.
Comment by Captain Kirk — April 16, 2007 @ 1:52 pm
Sweet. So if you support Bolton and everything that comes out of his mouth, that means you support immediate withdrawl.
I knew people like you would see the light one day. When can I expect you to start calling your congressperson and telling them how much you support the withdrawal of the troops?
April 16th, 2007 at 1:56 pmIncidentally, Captain Kirk is Jake’s alter ego. Firehead is another one of his multiple personalities.
Comment by ForTruth — April 16, 2007 @ 1:36 pm
They “may” have seperate bodies but they are all sharing one very small brain.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:57 pmkill 1 million Iraqis? what? I would urge the extreme wackos on the left to go read theirr god the UN, they put the Iraqi deaths at about 60,000 and most of them have NOT been at the hands of americans.
leave it to liberal wackos to believe that our military kills, as a sport, innocent men, women and children….pathetic.
you guys scream at supposed torture being done by Americans to our enemies, but you liberal wackos say nothing about our enemies beheaing our soldiers, torturing and killing Iraqi men, womena nd children.
extreme left wing wackos are so consumed with hate for their own country that they turn a blind eye when our enemies do real torture.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:58 pmFor the record, President Bush never said Saddam was an “imminent threat†— he said we cannot afford to wait until the threat became imminent — big difference, don’t you think? –Jake
Actually, it does make a big difference. It makes the invasion a violation of international law and the UN Charter. Which explains why Bush never went for that second resolution and never waited for those UN weapons inspectors to finish their job.
Regime Change was his real goal. The White House did admit that in mid 2002, but had to switch to WMD because no one would go along with that illegal premise.
“Couldn’t afford to wait”? Bush seems to be an expert at waiting while others die. He didn’t seemed rushed when there’s a hurricane in New Orleans, a war between Lebanon and Israel, or missle tests in North Korea. Nope. He can’t afford to wait when he can fumble the capture of Osama bin Laden and switch America’s resources to the non-threat of Iraq.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:58 pm#80,
Why is your life more “valuable” than that of an Iraqi child?
April 16th, 2007 at 1:59 pmMe thinks Jake’s Ignore list is patterned after Bush’s Ignore list:
“Anyone who asks a tough question or has an actual point contrary to what I believe to be true is dismissed without a second thought. That way, I don’t have to deal with people who are smarter than I am who can look at thing objectively.”
April 16th, 2007 at 1:59 pmSo did you hear that folks. Jake*ss the political theorist claims the Marshall Plan doesn’t work, and the historic plan of destroy your enemy and leave them weakened (as Europe did to Germany after WWI) does work!
BAHAHAHAA, Jake*ss, you’re so dumb, you make dumb people cringe!
April 16th, 2007 at 1:59 pmbobcat_grad…..
700,000 Iraqi lives? where do you wackos get your numbers from? the voices that speak into your head?
and if you must know, YES the life of my children are worth more than any other amount of lives put together. I rather see an Iraqi child die than my child die. Harsh, but it is the truth.
I know you liberals would rather see your sons and daughters die before you see Iraqi childreen die, oh you “compassionate” wacked out liberals.
April 16th, 2007 at 2:00 pmFor the record, we have no King but Jesus — if any NOT on the “Ignore List†wishes to discuss, let me know. Comment by Jake — April 16, 2007 @ 1:46 pm
He died over 2000 years ago, and left instructions for you to be peaceful. Sounds like you’re a rebel then that won’t go to heaven Jake*ss! Then again, you knew that, and it’s why you’re so desperately attentive at *trying* to be religious – isn’t it Jake*ss?
April 16th, 2007 at 2:01 pmi come in here to laugh at the huge level stupidity and hypocrisy that is so prevelent on extreme left wing blogs. :)
Comment by Captain Kirk — April 16, 2007 @ 1:53 pm
Really, I thought you came here to lie about your military service. Or do you come here because you’re too chicken to serve and think your pro-war argument here makes us for your lack of service. Maybe you and Jake should discuss if imaginary military service is the same as actual service.
April 16th, 2007 at 2:02 pm#83 -
They couldn’t behead our soldiers if our soldiers weren’t put there in the first place.
I’m curious, Kirk. What’s your stance on Darfur?
April 16th, 2007 at 2:02 pmextreme wacked out liberals,
go check out CNN interview with John Edwards when he was running in the Presidential Primaries against Kerry…..back then, Sen. John Edwards called Saddam Hussein, Iraq, an imminent threat……was Edward right? oh no wait, this super, duper intelligent person was lied and believed the lie of what you left wing wackos call a chimp, right?
read it children from the left….did John Edward lie to you kids? did he? from CNN Larry King interview….
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0202/24/le.00.html
EDWARDS: Well, I don’t think we’re focused on military options right now, John.
I think it was important, in answer to your last question, it was important for the president to go to the region. I think he did help alleviate some of the concerns that people in that area had about this “axis of evil” comment.
But I do think that the more serious question going forward is, what are we going to do? I mean, we have three different countries that, while they all present serious problems for the United States — they’re dictatorships, they’re involved in the development and proliferation of weapons of mass destruction — you know, the most imminent, clear and present threat to our country is not the same from those three countries. I think Iraq is the most serious and imminent threat to our country.
And I think they — as a result, we have to, as we go forward and as we develop policies about how we’re going to deal with each of these countries and what action, if any, we’re going to take with respect to them, I think each of them have to be dealt with on their own merits.
And they do, in my judgment, present different threats. And I think Iraq and
April 16th, 2007 at 2:04 pm#1 — Mostly right. Which is why we should’ve left Saddam in power. As demonstrated by an abject lack of viable Iraqi WMDs, it’s much easier to contain a minor pissant thug who is okay with killing his own people so long as he gets to play the hero-leader in the grand palace(s) — Bush Sr. & Clinton — than it is to deal with hotheaded disenfranchised nobodies who are readily persuaded that martyrdom is a quick way to fame and glory — Bush Jr.
So to that end — as demonstrated by North Korea — we do have an interest in the well-being of a dictator’s citizens. We want them to be content enough that the dictator isn’t afraid of them and doing stupid things like building nukes and selling them to terrorists or rogue nations to get funding while reassuring his people that he’s a strong leader. This is why flowers & chocolates got North Korea to cooperate with Clinton as opposed to building and testing nukes followed by a demand that they be allowed to continue their counterfeiting operations per the Bush Jr. (lack of) policy.
Eisenhower said that our military industrial complex exists for one purpose: To make nations and dictators that hate us fear their annihilation such that they dare not provoke our wrath. If we eliminate the dictators or allow something else to scare them more than we scare them, then our $450B+/year military isn’t being useful.
(Interesting side note: Anybody remember the smaller surgical-strike, technology-empowered military that Rumsfeld said he wanted to downsize us to back before we started the occupation? Kind of sounds different from the current imperialist calls from Gates and McCain to expand the size of the standing military, eh?)
Bush’s foreign policy has no coherent plan behind it, has been botched from vision to execution, and has diminished America’s ability to influence the future of the world for the better. I can’t possibly support any politician who can’t distance themselves from it.
April 16th, 2007 at 2:04 pmand if you must know, YES the life of my children are worth more than any other amount of lives put together. I rather see an Iraqi child die than my child die. Harsh, but it is the truth. Comment by Captain Kirk — April 16, 2007 @ 2:00 pm
Who said your child? And you would rather see an Iraqi Christian die, than an American Muslim?
I know you liberals would rather see your sons and daughters die before you see Iraqi childreen die, oh you “compassionate†wacked out liberals. Comment by Captain Kirk — April 16, 2007 @ 2:00 pm
Actually we would rather so no one die, it’s you that’s wacked out, hoping to see others die. You really don’t understand this *compassion* thing, do you wacko?
April 16th, 2007 at 2:04 pmThe rights to self-defense and defense of others are well-established in our legal system, even if they are not mentioned in the Constitution. Much more well-established than the right to an abortion. If I had to torture one terrorist to save 300 million lives, there’s not a prosecutor / jury in the country that would charge / convict me. Next question?
Comment by Jake
So, are you trying to say, old fart, that my 11-year old daughter learning self-defense in Tae Kwon Do is actually studying to become a terrorist?
April 16th, 2007 at 2:05 pmWould you like to start water boarding her now?
How does this a-hole get any face-time at all.
April 16th, 2007 at 2:05 pmHis office should be located very near the N. Pole, without heat.
i come in here to laugh at the huge level stupidity and hypocrisy that is so prevelent on extreme left wing blogs. :) Comment by Captain Kirk — April 16, 2007 @ 1:53 pm
Yep, Jake, you and the rest of the trolls do provide a huge level of stupidity and hypocrisy to laugh at! After all, Jake*ss whining that he won’t vote for anyone that’s pro-abortion, but cries for war and murdering of children that get in the way of the bombs. That kind of hypocrisy can only be found among you CONS.
April 16th, 2007 at 2:06 pm#88-
Idiot. I never said it was your kid that would die. And sure, if it was my kid vs. an Iraqi kid, I’ll admit I’d want mine to survive.
But your argument is a strawman one. You can not prove that by killing any number of Iraqis over there has any demonstrable impact on the survival of your child. And our point is that invading a country, destroying its infrastructure, killing tens of thousands of innocent people, displacing hundreds of thousands of others, destroying a country’s economy, ratcheting up hate towards ourselves and their fellow countrymen IS NOT worth increasing the odds that your child is safe from a terrorist attack from .000000001% to .000000002%.
April 16th, 2007 at 2:06 pmSounds like Capin Kerk is off the meds again.
April 16th, 2007 at 2:06 pmunlike the outright lies, smears, and pure hatred of the right-wing blogs Captain Kirk?
April 16th, 2007 at 2:07 pm“I have/had friends who are conservatives and this is a familiar refrain: we should have just gone in, toppled Hussein, then got out.”
But, that wouldn’t do. The plan was to invade Iraq and keep it in chaos long enough to get the Iraqi puppet legislators to sign a law giving the US and Britian 70% of their oil profits for 30 years. As soon as that happens, you will see an immediate change of heart. When that happens it will be time to remove our combat troops and only leave behind to protect our new oil interests. Oh and also people to populate the Disneyland embassy we built.
April 16th, 2007 at 2:07 pm#
For the record, we have no King but Jesus — if any NOT on the “Ignore List†wishes to discuss, let me know.
Comment by Jake — April 16, 2007 @ 1:46 pm
How dare you stand as a representative for Jesus! He taught the OPPOSITE of how you think.
April 16th, 2007 at 2:07 pmextreme left wing wackos are so consumed with hate for their own country that they turn a blind eye when our enemies do real torture.
Comment by Captain Kirk — April 16, 2007 @ 1:58 pm
We love our country and would love to have our liberties and constitution left intact by this criminal administration. How does that equate with “hating” the country.
And for the record, we learned all about hating the President from the way you neocons hated Bill Clinton. So much so that you persecuted him for getting a blow job so much that he missed capturing Osama Bin Laden by minutes.
You support the “Party of Hate” and then accuse us of hate. Nice spin.
April 16th, 2007 at 2:07 pmbobcat,
I think we should go into Darfur….
Maybe you can explain….
why are liberals pushing for american troops to go into Darfur, but want them out of Iraq?
Iraq was in a worst state than Darfur. Mass graves and starvation was occuring in Iraq just like in Darfur, right?
you can’t be for Iraq and against Darfur like some conservatives and you can’t be against Iraq, but for Darfur.
anyway, they hypocrisy bobcat about Darfur and Iraq is from the left. Look at sad human beings like Hollywood elites that want us in Darfur, ,but out of Iraq….
why does the left hate Iraqis, but love people from Darfur? why is the left racist against Iraqis? what do you liberals have agains Iraqis?
April 16th, 2007 at 2:07 pmI know you liberals would rather see your sons and daughters die before you see Iraqi childreen die, oh you “compassionate†wacked out liberals.
Comment by Captain Kirk
Excuse me? I would rather see NO children, American, Iraqi, or otherwise die. Especially for a useless war like the one that is going on now. Idiot. SULOGA!
April 16th, 2007 at 2:08 pmInvading and then Occupying Iraq will go down as the worst foreign policy action ever made by a US President.
Comment by Robert — April 16, 2007 @ 1:48 pm
Unless the idiot, in his short term left, finds a way to invade Iran. That may outdo the Iraq disaster.
April 16th, 2007 at 2:09 pmValiant,
whether he is a Christian or Muslim, I rather see an Iraqi child die over my child dying. Being Christian or Muslim plays no party in it……you racist you.
April 16th, 2007 at 2:10 pmWell we won’t have any of this to worry about when the glorious rapture comes, will we! Hallelujah! Today’s Iraqi children will be tomorrow’s anti-American terrorists. This simply has to go down in history as the absolute low point of American history.
War crimes trials for Bush, Cheney, Wolfie, Rice, Bolton, Feith, and the whole lot of them.
And on another note, a Pew poll just confirmed that Americans are generally stupid and uninformed. (from Crooks and Liars)
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003571876
Un-fricking-real.
April 16th, 2007 at 2:10 pm#104 -
Captain Kirk. I didn’t say we should go into Darfur. I asked what your stance was.
Explain to me why your leaders have ignored the Darfur crisis but willing went into Iraq. Not enough oil in the ground in Darfur?
April 16th, 2007 at 2:11 pmThis is an email I sent to a bunch of friends. I thought I would post it here to get some feedback:
This is a very important interview, in my opinion, if you want to
understand many of the policies of this administration. First of all,
there is the staggering arrogance of John Bolton which is so obviously
carried by so many members of this administration past and present
(i.e. Wolfowitz — he came in as a self-styled reforming who was going
to rid the bank of corruption and now he refuses to resign when faced
with clear evidence of his own corruption).
Secondly, and in my mind much more importantly, you really have to
listen to what Bolton says (and this very much echoes what he said
during his Daily Show performance) to get a flavor of the intellectual
underpinnings of their whole driving force.
Many people, myself included, have compared the Bush White House to
that of President Nixon (and, in many ways, rightly so). However, I
think that comparing the two can sometimes lead to ignoring a crucial
difference between the two. When Nixon said, “If the President does it
then it isn’t illegal,” that was the end all and be all of his
administration’s ideas. In contrast, listening to Bolton you can see
that he and others in this administration have come to same conclusion
but have actually done the legwork to create and ideological edifice
that coherently (if incorrectly) justifies their actions. Basically,
it is a distortion of an extreme idea of democratic theory.
In my mind it appears that their view is that the majority is always
April 16th, 2007 at 2:12 pmright. However, they have taken this idea and warped it so that the
majority now means their base supporters (who are clearly no longer a
majority of Americans if they ever were). Thus, their only
responsibility is to these supporters. In addition, they flip things
on their head and say that instead of the President trying to follow
the will of the people, he instead represents the will of the people
so that whatever he does is democratically supported. Thus, even if
the President’s actions are or would be otherwise illegal, in their
mind they are justified and legitimate. They then couple this twisted
democratic theory with a view in which only the self-interest (and
they take this to mean the economic and national security interests
only) of the United States matters.
sorry for the repeat.
April 16th, 2007 at 2:12 pmYou can not prove that by killing any number of Iraqis over there has any demonstrable impact on the survival of your child.
Actually, it’s pretty clear that killing Iraqis does have an impact on the survival of our children.
The problem is, it’s in the other direction from what the wingnuts think it is. Every dead Iraqi leaves behind friends and relatives who will want revenge, or just peers who figure that it would be a good idea to take us out before they’re the next victim of our killing spree.
April 16th, 2007 at 2:14 pmCK -
Terrorism will always exist. And using violence to fight it has the opposite effect in the long run.
So using terrorism as justification for what has happened and continues to happen in Iraq is misguided at best, idiotic at worst.
There are always going to be extremists in the world. All we’ve done in the past six years is paint an even larger target on our collective chests.
April 16th, 2007 at 2:14 pmShane,
nice to know that like a good wacked out, idiotic extreme liberal, you like painting anyone you disagree with with one color.
Retard, and I am insulting retards by call you a retard, I was 100% against going after Clinton. I respected PResident Clinton, but disagree with his policies. I backed up Clinton when he went into Kosovo and as I told my conservatives friend back then, there were many other things that Congress could have gotten Clinton besides lying about a blow job.
but leave it to a hateful, uneducated, ill-informed extreme liberal like you to believe that all conservatives think the same way. sad, sad…..
and….i thought you liberals were better than us conservatives….how different are you from us if you supposedly learn to hate President Bush by how you claim conservatives treated Clinton?
and i take it you are too young to remember how Liberals treated Reagan, right? or how about Eisenhower? Ike was called an idiot, a chimp, pretty much the same insults used against Bush today were used by Liberals against General Ike when he ran for the Presidency….go figure, you idiots are so unoriginal that you recycle the same crap, over and over and over again….
get a clue, open up a book and get an education while you are it.
April 16th, 2007 at 2:14 pmValiant, whether he is a Christian or Muslim, I rather see an Iraqi child die over my child dying. Being Christian or Muslim plays no party in it……you racist you. Comment by Captain Kirk — April 16, 2007 @ 2:10 pm
We weren’t discussing *your-child*, we were discussing your fellow Americans.
And you still avoided the question.
Me thinks you do protest too much, as it was you that recognize the *racism* or more like religious fanaticism of your actions. After all, why else would you only care about your own race (family) and care nothing for the suffering of others.
So I’m guessing you wouldn’t care if anything happens to Israel either?
April 16th, 2007 at 2:15 pmI rather see an Iraqi child die than my child die. Harsh, but it is the truth.
I know you liberals would rather see your sons and daughters die before you see Iraqi childreen die, oh you “compassionate†wacked out liberals.
Comment by Captain Kirk — April 16, 2007 @ 2:00 pm
Explain to us how an Iraqi child dying makes your children safer? Does it occur to you that an Iraqi parent watching his children die might be more angry and the United States and more likely to support terrorists.
It’s also apparent from your tenor that you would rather “our” children died than yours. And doesn’t that make you as big a threat to us “dumb liberals” as any other terrorist. Obviously you think of us as less important than members of your party.
April 16th, 2007 at 2:16 pmIf I had to torture one terrorist to save 300 million lives, there’s not a prosecutor / jury in the country that would charge / convict me. Next question? Comment by Jake
The Jake*ss has been watching too much 24 again. He thinks torture actually *works*. What an idiot! This from a guy that claims to have been military Intel – BAHAHAHAA, NOT!!!!
April 16th, 2007 at 2:17 pmbobcat,
our leaders, in BOTH parties don’t see the “personal” interest for our nation in Darfur. I agree with you.
but liberals claim that Iraq was no national threat, right? neither is Darfur. Iraq had no WMDs, right? neither does Darfur, right? Darfur’s armed forces? my son could defeat them, right?
so, why are liberals for going into Darfur, but against being in Iraq when both nations were and are suffering from the same thing…..not enough people from DArfur in Iraq? not enough Hollywood elites supporting Iraq like they support Darfur? Not a fad to adopt children from IRaq like it is adopting children from Africa?
can you answer my questions?
April 16th, 2007 at 2:17 pmIf I had to torture one terrorist to save 300 million lives, there’s not a prosecutor / jury in the country that would charge / convict me. Next question? Comment by Jake
Actually Jake, they would convict you. Because you don’t have a right to torture another American for any reason you *suspect*. Jake*ss.
Those values are what you find among Religious Fanatical Terrorists, a group you would CLEARLY be better suited to live among.
April 16th, 2007 at 2:18 pmJake,
I guess the question is, do you justify vigilante justice? Even against fellow Americans?
I think you’ve made it clear taht you feel justified in torturing non-americans in the hope of thwarting a terror attack. But Americans too can be terrorists. So why do you draw the line, and why are you in favor of breaking the laws of our country?
April 16th, 2007 at 2:18 pmComment by Captain Kirk — April 16, 2007 @ 2:04 pm
You do REMEMBER that John Edwards DID NOT win the primary. So maybe Democrats weren’t all that thrilled with some of his positions. Just Maybe, Dumbass
April 16th, 2007 at 2:19 pmIn my mind it appears that their view is that the majority is always
right.
Not at all. Their view is that they are always right. What anybody else thinks, even if it’s a majority, doesn’t matter and never did.
If they had any regard for the views of the majority, they’d never have stolen office in the first place.
April 16th, 2007 at 2:20 pmbut leave it to a hateful, uneducated, ill-informed extreme liberal like you to believe that all conservatives think the same way. sad, sad….. Comment by Captain Kirk — April 16, 2007 @ 2:14 pm
99.9% of the time it’s a safe bet.
and i take it you are too young to remember how Liberals treated Reagan, right? or how about Eisenhower? Ike was called an idiot, a chimp, pretty much the same insults used against Bush today were used by Liberals against General Ike when he ran for the Presidency….go figure, you idiots are so unoriginal that you recycle the same crap, over and over and over again…. Comment by Captain Kirk — April 16, 2007 @ 2:14 pm
And by your own admission, your Conservative friends, and the entire party establishment persecuted Clinton in a far worse manner, for no legitimate reasons.
How did we treat Reagan again? The man that prosecuted an illegal war, and negotiated with terrorists against the US government’s will before he was even elected?
Your fixation on only the other side, is typical of a partisan fool.
April 16th, 2007 at 2:21 pmCaptain Kirk,
I think the answer lies in the fact according to UN treaties, once a genocide has been accepted to be occuring, the world has the obligation to step in and do something about it. Not that those kind of legal niceties matter to our current administration.
April 16th, 2007 at 2:21 pmFor the record, POW John McCain believes torture works too — he wrote about it in his book Faith of My Fathers.
April 16th, 2007 at 2:21 pmvalient,
bwahahahaha!! you can’t be as stupid as the crap that you post on here, can you?
yes, strangely enough, retard, I will care 100 times more for my family than I will for anyone else….I don’t call me crazy…..
i take it you would have no problem feeding your family to the sharks if it save a strangers family, eh?
you are funny….thanks for the laughs my young fool.
April 16th, 2007 at 2:22 pm#118
Yes. I can.
We were told that Saddam had WMDs. He didn’t. We were then told that we were there to fight terrorism. Yet we let Afghanistan fall into chaos. We were then told we were there to spread peaceful democracy. That’s going swimmingly, isn’t it?
The only time that the ethnic cleansing issue was discussed was AFTER WE WERE THERE. Kinda like, “Ummmm… oops. Crap, we need to come up with something to justify why we invaded.”
So the left is calling Bush’s bluff. If your motivations to invade Iraq were purely humanitarian, then please, turn your attention to the area in Africa where hundreds of thousands are being killed.
April 16th, 2007 at 2:23 pmCrump’s Brother:
I do NOT justify vigilante justice against fellow Americans. My hypothetical above was where I knew the torture of a TERRORIST would save 300 million American lives — did you not see that — if you think I would go to jail for THAT scenario, no wonder you are so wrong on every other opinion.
April 16th, 2007 at 2:24 pmnice to know that like a good wacked out, idiotic extreme liberal, you like painting anyone you disagree with with one color.
Comment by Captain Kirk — April 16, 2007 @ 2:14 pm
“Hello, Pot? Kettle here. Yes, I wanted to tell you you’re black.”
Can we all agree that the jake persona, although desparately dim and unreflective, is at least amusing, while the Cap’n Kirk character is just stupid? And ugly to boot.
April 16th, 2007 at 2:25 pmShane….
BWAHAHAHAHA!!! you retard, he ran as Kerry’s VP!!!! Kerry didn’t mind he called Iraq an imminent threat, right? are you this dumb or do you just play one?
April 16th, 2007 at 2:26 pmCK -
Selective reading, no?
You keep turning this into “My Family vs. Terrorist Family.” Yet, repeatedly, people here (including myself) have pointed out the fact that no one is targeting your family specifically.
We’re speaking in generalizations. When is the life of any 1 American (let’s pretend your entire family, even second cousins, is exempt from this hypothetical) worth more than 5, 10, 50, 100, 500, or even 60,000 (to use your figure) Iraqis?
April 16th, 2007 at 2:27 pmMy hypothetical above was where I knew the torture of a TERRORIST would save 300 million American lives
Since nobody is considering torturing Bush, that particular scenario isn’t germane to the current discussion.
April 16th, 2007 at 2:29 pmMy hypothetical above was where I knew the torture of a TERRORIST would save 300 million American lives — did you not see that — if you think I would go to jail for THAT scenario, no wonder you are so wrong on every other opinion.
Jake – okay. If the situation was that narrow and definitive, I’d agree with you. It’s umpleasent, but a no-brainer.
That’s different than the killing of tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis to possibly protect some American ones.
April 16th, 2007 at 2:29 pmbobcat,
wrong, wrong, wrong….you might want to look at Amnesty International Reports, Human Rights Watch and speeches from this administration before we went into IRaq….the human right violations being done by Hussein were discussed and given as one of the main reasons to get rid of Hussein. Not the only reason, but it was given as a reason to go into Iraq.
and before you cry and whine about Bush……..let us not forget that President Clinton, liberals and the United Nations did NOTHING about the genocide that occured in Rwanda in 1994, when 800,000 Tutsis were massacred by Hutus.
so, all i see is a bunch of hypocrites.
and by your own claim it looks like the left is using Darfur as a political tool, rather than being interested in helping the people of Darfur. nice and then you cry about Bush. do you not see your own hypocrisy?
April 16th, 2007 at 2:30 pmDon’t feed the trolls, folks.
It makes them more flatulent & God knows they have enough hot air.
Don’t bolt my dick, Bolton!
Overrated & underarmed, Johnny Boy is in over his moustache. He is a symbol of why the rest of the free world has begun hating the USA.
Not just a prick, Bolton takes it all the way for ’shock & awe’. Yeah, that worked well in ‘03, Johnny.
Why is anyone listening to this jerkoff? He’s like Newt Grinch; in the way, out of office & out of line.
STFU, both of you. America has work to do & it sure as hell doesn’t include your opinions.
April 16th, 2007 at 2:31 pmCK -
For someone who throws around such compassionate words such as “retard,” I feel sorry for your children. I mean, they don’t really get a choice on who their father is.
April 16th, 2007 at 2:31 pmJake,
How would you know that the person you were about to torture had the information you needed?
Thanks for telling me I’m wrong. I’m sure I’ll lose sleep over your vastly minority opinion.
Further, in retrospect we know that Terry
April 16th, 2007 at 2:34 pmNichols knew what was about to happen on the Morning of April 19th 1995, and you wouldn’t have tried to stop that? I just want to be clear on that point.
bobcat,
read Valients posts before you claim I am the one turning this into my family…..
anyway, to me, the life of any American, including you wacked out liberals, is worth more than the life of any foreigner. I don’t live in this, “we are the world fantasy land….” like you liberals. Unlike most of you, i have pride and honor in being an American and helping my fellow American first.
April 16th, 2007 at 2:34 pmSo it seems that we have come to the foundation of this argument, and it is all based on the premise that (1) American life is more valuable than (infinite) non-American lives.
When history looks back at the wreckage of what was once the “Great experiment in democracy”, I am certain that the heinous and arrogant logic flaw described above will rise prominently as one of the key causes of the collapse and also one of the key justifications for it.
April 16th, 2007 at 2:35 pmbobcat,
if we follow your logic and that of most liberals, we should have never invaded Europe in order to free it from Nazi Germany, right? because since when is the life of one Frenchman worth more than that of a German, correct?
or for that matter Japan, we should have never gone to war against Japan because….since when is the life of one Phillipino worth more than that of a Japanese?
April 16th, 2007 at 2:36 pmbobcat….
i am not attacking you… I believe I have respected you….shane on the other hand is poor, sad excuse of a human being that loves attacking anyone that she thinks is a Republican. The poor woman is one hateful, ignorant fool.
April 16th, 2007 at 2:37 pmUnlike most of you, i have pride and honor in being an American and helping my fellow American first.
Comment by Captain Kirk — April 16, 2007 @ 2:34 pm
Why are we more important than other human beings? That’s not very Christ-like of you.
April 16th, 2007 at 2:37 pmCaptain Kirk was one of those idiots that said about Katrina:
“It wasn’t my house that was destroyed so therefore, I don’t care.” Your lack of compassion disgusts me.
April 16th, 2007 at 2:38 pmCaptain Kirk:
April 16th, 2007 at 2:39 pmDamnit, Jim, I’m a Dr., not a soldier!
Call The Hague! We have a few that are looking for permanent residence.
April 16th, 2007 at 2:41 pm“anyway, to me, the life of any American, including you wacked out liberals, is worth more than the life of any foreigner. I don’t live in this, “we are the world fantasy land….†like you liberals. Unlike most of you, i have pride and honor in being an American and helping my fellow American first.”
Why do you think that an American life is more valuable than any other? I know this sounds argumentative but I don’t mean it that way. I am just interested in how you came to believe this.
April 16th, 2007 at 2:41 pmBolton, the incredible moronic representative for the incredibly moronic administration.
April 16th, 2007 at 2:42 pmbobcat,
if we follow your logic and that of most liberals, we should have never invaded Europe in order to free it from Nazi Germany, right? because since when is the life of one Frenchman worth more than that of a German, correct?
or for that matter Japan, we should have never gone to war against Japan because….since when is the life of one Phillipino worth more than that of a Japanese?
Comment by Captain Kirk — April 16, 2007 @ 2:36 pm
Wow.
Umm… I’ll pull one of your arguments out and throw it back on you. “Open and book and learn something.” Japan attacked us. There was this little thing called Pearl Harbor – maybe you’ve heard of it. Japan, Germany, and Italy were the aggressors.
And don’t pull out the tired, “We were attacked on 9/11″ excuse. Yes. We were attacked on 9/11… by terrorists. Not by Iraq.
As far as being respectful, you lost that argument the first time you used the word ‘retard.’
April 16th, 2007 at 2:42 pmCrump’s Brother:
It doesn’t matter HOW I know that the torture of said terrorist would save 300 million Americans — that’s the hypothetical in play and if I convinced ONE person on the “Ignore List” already, imagine how many more lurkers see my point — as for torturing a specific person such as Terry Nichols, your question is a good one: did he have training in the military to resist torture, would he have given false information in order to delay, etc.? How would you have known? Just to be clear, however, if I knew that torturing Mr. Nichols would have saved those American lives too, I would have done it — but I would be facing a more likely prison term for that ; )
April 16th, 2007 at 2:45 pmbobcat,
actually, WRONG!! goes to show how much you liberals that pretent to know Jesus Christ know…..
Read the 4th commandment, it is a lot more than just honoring and respecting one’s parents. Lots to do with patriotism a virtue, most, not all, but most liberals lack.
yes, an American is a lot more important to me than a person from another nation. Call me crazy, but I can guarantee you that if a Frenchman has to save you or a fellow Frenchman, he will save the fellow frenchman first……
you liberals live in a box.
April 16th, 2007 at 2:47 pmHey, Cappy, who was it that said this quote?
“[War] is instinctive. But the instinct can be fought. We’re human beings with the blood of a million savage years on our hands! But we can stop it. We can admit that we’re killers…but we’re not going to kill…today. That’s all it takes! Knowing that we’re not going to kill…today!”
Must’ve been your mirror universe version.
April 16th, 2007 at 2:47 pmso bobcat,
according to you, if a nation attacks the USA you claim that the life of those that live in that nation are worthless compared to American lives? is this what you are getting at? is this the only time for you that a a foreign life is worth less than an American life?
so if Iraqis had attacked the USA than you would agree with me as say that an Iraqi life is worth less than an American life, right? but since Iraq never attacked us, then an Iraqi life is the same as an American life, correct? this is your logic, correct?
how about Iraq shooting at our jet planes? how about Iraq violating human rights?
why are you for going into Darfur and not for staying in Iraq?
and don’t have such a persecution complex, I never called you a retard, but geez guy if the shoe fits, wear it.
April 16th, 2007 at 2:50 pmbobcat,
how about Germany? did Germany attack us? or once again since Germany declared war on us it ment that the life of a Frenchman was worth more than that of a German kid?
are you so blinded by your obtuse logic that you can’t see how idiotic your arguments are?
April 16th, 2007 at 2:52 pmbut I can guarantee you that if a Frenchman has to save you or a fellow Frenchman, he will save the fellow frenchman first
As someone who is certified to save lives through CPR, I wouldn’t care one whit if they were American, French, Saudi, or Iraqi. The fact is, I hold ALL life as equal and no one is better than anyone else.
You, CK, probably fantasize about beating up people weaker than yourself too.
April 16th, 2007 at 2:54 pmare you so blinded by your obtuse logic that you can’t see how idiotic your arguments are?
Comment by Captain Kirk
Talk about obtuse logic. Do you even read your own posts?
April 16th, 2007 at 2:55 pmJake is an idiot.
And knowing that people continue to rise to his bait.
April 16th, 2007 at 3:04 pm“Obtuse logic is often quite necessary, Captain, as it provides a counter balance to your acute lack of logic. Sir.”
April 16th, 2007 at 3:09 pm#
Read the 4th commandment, it is a lot more than just honoring and respecting one’s parents. Lots to do with patriotism a virtue, most, not all, but most liberals lack.
Comment by Captain Kirk — April 16, 2007 @ 2:47 pm
#
That interpretation is part of the Catholic Cathecism, but is not shared by non-Catholics. Considering that the (Holy Roman) Catholic Church was both the creation of and arm of the Roman government, it’s not surprising that such an interpretation would have been promulgated. But it was self-serving then, and still is.
April 16th, 2007 at 3:16 pmAl Gore did not run on a ‘no nation-building’ platform. Bush’s comment was a dig at Clinton’s excursion into Bosnia. Al Gore was consistentlly for engagement with the rest of the world, but always in the context of our multilateral agreements.
The difference between ‘no nation-building’ in the Pat Buchanan isolationist sense, as being “don’t go in in the first place,” is one thing, and in the John Bolton sense of ‘invade their country, wreck it, and then hand them the Federalist papers’ is quite another.
April 16th, 2007 at 3:17 pmIf there was any justice in the world, Bolton and the rest of the Neocon(NAZI) would be at Hague facing charges of War Crimes.
April 16th, 2007 at 3:19 pmhow about Germany? did Germany attack us? or once again since Germany declared war on us it ment that the life of a Frenchman was worth more than that of a German kid? Comment by Captain Kirk — April 16, 2007 @ 2:52 pm
Actually the German/Japanese alliance attacked us. You know, that *formal* alliance between these governments that was publicly known and announced?
are you so blinded by your obtuse logic that you can’t see how idiotic your arguments are? Comment by Captain Kirk — April 16, 2007 @ 2:52 pm
Yeah, obtuse. Project much dum bass?
April 16th, 2007 at 3:44 pmaccording to you, if a nation attacks the USA you claim that the life of those that live in that nation are worthless compared to American lives? is this what you are getting at? is this the only time for you that a a foreign life is worth less than an American life? Comment by Captain Kirk — April 16, 2007 @ 2:50 pm
Unlike terrorists like yourself and Osama, we belief all life is valuable. You do realize this is why Osama attacked us right? Because he felt the American lives were less valuable than those of his fellow religion and countrymen? It must feel good, to know you have so much in common with a *values* leader like Osama.
so if Iraqis had attacked the USA than you would agree with me as say that an Iraqi life is worth less than an American life, right? but since Iraq never attacked us, then an Iraqi life is the same as an American life, correct? this is your logic, correct? Comment by Captain Kirk — April 16, 2007 @ 2:50 pm
Iraq never once attacked American soil.
how about Iraq shooting at our jet planes? Comment by Captain Kirk — April 16, 2007 @ 2:50 pm
You mean the planes that were bombing them? They called this self defense, and once again, they weren’t attacking America, they were attacking an invading force – an act you yourself would participate in if the tables were turned – Jake*ss.
how about Iraq violating human rights? Comment by Captain Kirk — April 16, 2007 @ 2:50 pm
You already established you don’t believe the rights or lives of Iraqis matter to you – strawman argument based on that premise.
why are you for going into Darfur and not for staying in Iraq? Comment by Captain Kirk — April 16, 2007 @ 2:50 pm
Darfur is seeing a Genocide, and humanitarian disaster than an *international* force could help prevent, Iraq wasn’t.
Darfur is seeing two clearly different ethnic/race groups fighting, that could be separated – Iraq is nothing like this.
and don’t have such a persecution complex, I never called you a retard, but geez guy if the shoe fits, wear it. Comment by Captain Kirk — April 16, 2007 @ 2:50 pm
Project much? You live in a persecution complex, as do most that are overly religious, and self righteous as you are.
As for your r*t*rd comment, that’s called a passive aggressive response, as are most of your responses to the world.
You’re a sociopath, wacko.
April 16th, 2007 at 3:49 pmUnlike most of you, i have pride and honor in being an American and helping my fellow American first.
Comment by Captain Kirk
Change, Americans for Germans and welcome to the Nazi regime.
according to you, if a nation attacks the USA you claim that the life of those that live in that nation are worthless compared to American lives? is this what you are getting at? is this the only time for you that a a foreign life is worth less than an American life?
so if Iraqis had attacked the USA than you would agree with me as say that an Iraqi life is worth less than an American life, right? but since Iraq never attacked us, then an Iraqi life is the same as an American life, correct? this is your logic, correct?
how about Iraq shooting at our jet planes? how about Iraq violating human rights?
Now, I really want to make a pause here and nominate this as the most stupid post ever written in TP.
Please, why do we bother with this bozo that just writes “liberal wackos” and stuff like that?
April 16th, 2007 at 4:06 pmHere is the quote from Bolton that stuns me (It start a little less than a minute before the end of the video.):
“It was never the American claim that Saddam’s weapons of mass destruction programs constituted an imminent threat. What we said was and what was approved by broad majorities of both houses of Congress was that the threat was the regime itself.”
This is a huge lie. Bolton is trying to morph one justification into another. Why would we have spent so much time, energy, and money looking for WMD if that wasn’t such a key reason for our invasion? Bolton has no shame.
April 16th, 2007 at 4:07 pmMr. Bolton, of course, purposely misstates traditional international law on the subject of state responsibility. But then he thinks both those phrases are oxymorons, which is why Cheney put him into the Diplomatic Corps in the first place.
April 16th, 2007 at 4:18 pmFor Mr. Cheney and his acolytes, like Mr. Bolton, the whole point of having power is to avoid accountability.
He is the political equivalent of a serial philanderer who keeps forgetting to tell his many partners that he tested positive for AIDS some time ago, but has had “other priorities” than getting treatment.
April 16th, 2007 at 4:24 pmI can’t help but feel just pity for the likes of jake, ck, and the many other Americans that ignorantly follow the demagogic Republican leaders who are using them to further their own goals of ambition and wealth, and who give so little in return, including often pain and shame.
The rich and powerful who know the real reasons for what the Bush government is doing and support him, while repugnant and immoral, are at least in a position of real awareness based advantaged financial and social status.
Their multitude of peons, however, are left clinging to baseless diatribe that will eventually fall like a house of cards, leaving them aimless and disillusioned.
There is always the chance, however, that they may make the fearful leap to true introspection and reflection of the reality of the world, and leave their cave of darkness to bathe in the empowering light of real knowledge.
April 16th, 2007 at 4:39 pmAn update on origins. I don’t know when this article from the French newspaper Le Monde will be translated, but based on confidential government, it seems to show that the Bush Administration was informed about 911 type plans months in advance.
The Bushies knew or should have known about the threat. It seems they at best ignored it.
http://www.lemonde.fr/web/article/0,1-0@2-3224,36-896448,0.html
April 16th, 2007 at 4:39 pmThe toppling of Saddam Hussein did MORE to spread Al Qaeda’s influence throughout the Arab Middle East than any other factor. Saddam was a check on Bin Laden, and kept him bottled up in Afghanistan. And for this, we’ve destroyed a country of 28 million people. Bolton and Co. need to pray for their souls.
April 16th, 2007 at 5:43 pmThis is the most honest statement I have ever heard by any Bushie!
The attack on Iraq was purely for selfish interests and had nothing to do with “liberating” anyone.
April 16th, 2007 at 11:25 pmfothermucker
April 17th, 2007 at 12:03 amgangsta republican
April 17th, 2007 at 2:19 amBush and his cronies are going to crash and burn. The only aim they have left is to take the economy and their countrymen with them. Everything they do now is just to buy time, line their pockets and burn the evidence.
Ordinary, decent American citizens should be in the streets demanding that the corrupt and corrupting filth now ruining their country be removed from power. Witness the true blackness of their souls when the administration has to put down a rebellion in its own back yard.
American citizens: please, please revolt; give them HELL and take back your country.
April 17th, 2007 at 7:34 amFIRST POST!
April 17th, 2007 at 8:16 amThis is an attitude that successive American governments have had, and until enough honest people stand up and say it is wrong it will continue.
April 17th, 2007 at 8:23 amattitudes such as that expressed in comment no.1 are exactly the reason that events like 9/11 are perpetrated in the first place. are you really too foolish to realise this? you are a perfect example of why the world is slowly but surely turning against the US.
April 17th, 2007 at 8:34 amI back John Bolton 100%. He is totally right. Let me be clear: I am an experienced international worker who has worked on failed states. The main rule is handing over responsibility to the locals as fast as possible. Iraqis are the only people responsible for their country’s fate. That their country is a bloody tragedy is all their own fault. Let’s also be clear about this: the British, who have never done much good around the world, are in no position to lecture anyone and maybe should go back to their one true inclination: to be the world’s global homos.
April 17th, 2007 at 8:42 amImagine you had this attitude with your neighbors. Let’s say you had a problem with one of them: you disagree with the way they run their household or you envy some of the plants they have in their landscaping.
Do you go on their property, beat the crap out of the people that live in the house, take their plants, and then justify it by saying, “At least I’m in a better situation, now?â€
If you’re gonna pull that leftist shit, let’s do it honestly. Let’s say your neighbors are beating their kids. Every night you hear the kids scream, and every day when you’re getting the paper, you see them with black eyes, and busted lips. Do you do anything? Nah, of course not, child abuse, much like genocide, fucking rocks.
April 17th, 2007 at 8:53 amOf course it’s hypothetical, and will always be hypothetical because no such situation could ever really exist. The more time you spend fantasising about being forced to live out your Jack Bauer daydream in order to save the world, the more likely you are to see any given situation as that kind of scenario. The reality it that the real world is more nuanced and that the good guys and bad guys don’t fit into neat stereotypes.
As for people claiming that Jesus would support the actions of the US, I suggest they go back and read the sermon on the mount, consider who their neighbour is, and what Jesus said about loving your enemy and praying for those who persecute you.
April 17th, 2007 at 9:00 amBob – you must be kidding.
“That their country is a bloody tragedy is all their own fault”
What kind of statement is that? You are not an ‘experienced international worker’ or if you are, you have a reality distortion field around you.
So, your country invades another sovereign state on false claims, provoke chaos and tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of deaths, and then… just leave? I am appalled that you could actually believe that.
April 17th, 2007 at 9:10 amIt’s telling that Mr. Bolton repeated his belief that there are two fundamental questions we should ask. In the process of answering the first, “Should we remove Saddam?”, he said the answer is “unquestionably” yes. Should we, or shouldn’t we ask the question, Mr. Bolton. It’s this type of faulty logic and attempts to manipulate the listener that have led to the current tragedy.
April 17th, 2007 at 9:15 amBolton and Jake and Captain Kirk need to gather up all the other neo-con nazis and get the hell out of america. Let them found their own nazi country and start the “4th reich”. Then the rest of us who still believe in liberty and decency (not torture for “security”) can go over there and kill the living hell out of all of them just like we did those other nazis…
April 17th, 2007 at 10:32 amFor you americans, Jezza Paxman is harcore. He’s been a bit of a pansy of late, but it’s nice to see a return to form. He’s the reason the British government don’t appear on newsnight anymore.
April 17th, 2007 at 10:34 am9/11= inside job
April 17th, 2007 at 10:39 amdoes this interview make any sense ? BBC talking to a US guy.
Where was BBC before or at the time things were happening..
this is totally irrelevant, anyway haven’t watched BBC after they fired that guy who said they-TonyB and co- are “sexing up†Iraq story
April 17th, 2007 at 10:44 amConservatives in this country and abroad who have supported the Iraq War have never truly believed in their want for the Iraqi people to be free. Oh sure, they say this on a regular basis, but one can only hold scorn and shame for a political movement that, by its actions and rhetoric, would just as soon nuke the entire Middle East, rather than liberate it.
They say the problem in Iraq is the fault of the Iraqis, or opine that life would just all be simpler if we nuked the place…”turn it into a mirror” I believe I once heard a neocon caller to a radio show say. Then there’s the calls to assassinate leaders and convert the masses to Christianity…there’s the indifference to reports of hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths, there’s stark wonderment at why Iraqis dying under our bombs and their families don’t understand we’re there to save them. There is total disregard for the backstory of the Iraqi people, its factions, and its politics and political affiliations. Indeed there is the very dishonesty of invading a country on the basis of manufactured claims, and then using the Iraqi Liberation rhetoric and sloganeering as an afterthought political bandaid to try to explain why we even went there.
The conservatives do not care about the Iraqi people. They never have, and they don’t evince such a tendency as we move into the future. And indeed if there was a point at which they did truly care, their incompetence in planning anything other than bombing campaigns over Iraq can only be seen as the folly of powerful dunces with money and a finger on the button.
April 17th, 2007 at 11:07 amThe U.S. executed an illegal search without a warrant, kicked down a nation’s door, killed its guardians, offers to fix the door, but tells the children “Good luck, you’re on your own.” Illegal only if you’re an American living in the U.S.
April 17th, 2007 at 11:37 amI want to fight Bolton.
April 17th, 2007 at 11:41 amI dispute the first point that he proposed, and then answered all on his own.
Should we have deposed Sadaam Hussein?
It’s not that Sadaam Hussein wasn’t a bad person… But using the neo-cons “logic”, we should be deposing bad people the world over.
Who’s next?
I was, and still am, in favor of imprisoning the ones who put him in power in the first place. But that trail inevitably leads back to US intelligence services, so it’s never going to happen.
Who’s next? Are there any other despots in the world that we’ve placed in power? And are we going to invade their countries, just to cover our CIA’s tracks?
…………….
April 17th, 2007 at 11:44 amAMERICA HAS NOT CAUSED THE VIOLENCE.
America gave Iraq freedom from a mass-murdering dictator. America should have done a better job maintaining security. However, America has not caused this violence.
The removal of Sadaam got rid of a murderous and torturous regime which controlled every Iraqi through fear, intimidation and death. Without that control in place, people were able to have more freedom to express themselves. If the radical factions would have helped restore Iraq instead of killing each other, we would have been able to leave by now. America has helped setup schools, sewer systems, electrical grids and replaced the country’s currency. What have the militias done? If every contractor and citizen didn’t have to worry about being bombed or beheaded by people loyal to some Sunni or Shiite tribe or militia, Iraq would be a much better and safer place.
The failings of the Bush administrator are no excuse for the murders of innocent Iraqis by Iraqis.
The failings of the news media is no excuse to believe that conservatives do not care about the Iraqi people. Some of the US soldiers are conservatives and I do not believe that they would have just dropped a bunch of bombs to end it all quickly. They have given up being with their families to rebuild Iraq and help provide security for the Iraqs not kill innocent Iraqis.
Notice that the news media tells you everyday of another bombing. Do you really believe that nothing happens in Iraq except bombings, kidnappings and gun fights? Where are the daily stories of progress in Iraq? I believe the situation in Iraq is horrible, but the news media does a horrible job of providing a complete picture.
April 17th, 2007 at 11:53 amCaptainKirk said: “actually, WRONG!! goes to show how much you liberals that pretent to know Jesus Christ know…..Read the 4th commandment”
The 4th commandment has nothing to do with Jesus Christ. Commandments are Old Testament, Jesus is New Testament.
JC is quite clear on matters of social justice: treat your neighbor well, and do not respond to violence with violence.
You, CaptainKirk, are not a Christian. If you were, you would know that you’d be headed straight to Hell for your lack of Christian morals.
April 17th, 2007 at 11:59 amI’m not a republican, but this interviewer is full of shit. He brings nothing but contempt and questions we’ve heard 100 times to the table. At least Bolton articulates his opinions very well and keeps his cool which can’t be said for the English fellow.
April 17th, 2007 at 12:35 pmNot all americans believe the way so many of you seem to think we do. we are not overly concerned with luxury, or underly concerned with foreign peoples. In point of fact, we are appalled at the current situation, and are unfortunately forced to live under a corrupt president(who i might add was NOT elected by the people), with a corrupt government party willing to follow him down the path to international destruction.
There was another world leader not that long ago who had similar ideals about ejecting the governments of other nations and inserting his own. That person and his ideals was killed towards the end of the second world war…
Some of us Americans can see this president for who and what he is, and it scares the shit out of us.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:51 pmJeez – I don’t know whether Kirk (insult to the man) and Jake are trolls, 13-year old morons, or just borderline sociopaths. Come to think of it, I don’t know this about Bush & Bolton either.
Some advice to the rest of the people here – you can’t argue on-line in this non-linear format. It will never come to anything. Stop feeding the trolls and ignore them.
April 18th, 2007 at 5:06 amhttp://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/92.htm
Nuff said.
April 18th, 2007 at 12:31 pmits nice to see democracy at its finest hour.. the ad infinatum wars of words between our fellow americans (i.e. “jake” v. the world)
April 18th, 2007 at 2:46 pmto take the name of james t kirk in vein is an insult to my sensiblities, son. However, in this alleged land of the free, everyone has a right ( or wrong) to think and believe as we choose.
I dont agree with you, just respect you for being honest with us.. another great reason why thinkprogress in its wisdom doesnt publish email addresses or else there would be a great influx of viruses on his computer..
in other news, i just wish the aliens from outer space would just hurry up and blow us ALL to hell– then we would see what ideology works or if they would even care. Orwell anyone?
Verily, V
There is nothing wrong with Jake and Bolton’s assessment of the situation. The US could have just toppled the regime and left Iraqis to fend for themselves in the anarchy of a bombed out country.
However, then neither Jake nor Bolton should be surprised when terrorists kill American civilians. Today’s orphans are tomorrow’s terrorists.
April 20th, 2007 at 4:16 pmChaos is perfect to spread the PNAC wars. Perfect.
April 25th, 2007 at 8:22 amGeorge bush still being president of this great country is a travisity. The man should be absolutely impeached for what he has caused to the iraqis people, these people never deserved the kind inhumanity inflicted on them by this great country. The people sent a strong message to bush war machine in the last general election to stop the never ending killing and brutality, but apparently it has fallen on by the wayside. How could any compassionate man allow this to go on.
May 26th, 2007 at 10:41 am