McCain: ‘I Know What’s Best For The Security Of This Nation’
McCain: ‘I Know What’s Best For The Security Of This Nation’
In a recent interview with GQ magazine, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) proclaimed that he can ignore American public opinion polling on Iraq because he knows “what’s best for the security of this nation:”
GQ: Then how can you support sending the military on a mission that the American people don’t support?
MCCAIN: Because I know what’s best for the security of this nation. And if we don’t show signs of success, the American public will force us to pull out.
Here’s a quick review of McCain’s credentials for “knowing what’s best” for U.S. national security:
– Declared Muqtada al-Sadr’s forces were “not contesting American forces,” just as tens of thousands of Sadr loyalists rallied to oppose the U.S. occupation
– Proclaimed Americans could “walk through” Baghdad neighborhoods, evidencing his stroll through a Baghdad market accompanied by 100 soldiers, 3 Blackhawks, and 2 Apache gunships
– Said Gen. Petraeus rides “almost every day in an unarmored humvee” in Iraq, but later acknowledged “obviously, that’s not the case”
– Drew “laughter down the line” from U.S. forces in Iraq over his comments about the effect escalation was having
– Said a “date certain” for withdrawal was the “orderly way” to stop the U.S. campaign in Somalia, but now calls it “surrender” when applied to Iraq
When forced to confront the unpopularity of his Iraq position, McCain told GQ, “I think Americans don’t pay close attention.” He certainly must have to think that in order to publicly claim he knows what’s best for the security of this nation given the record he has.
GQ: The polls indicate that Americans oppose this plan. Do you believe those polls?
MCCAIN: Sure. Americans are angry and frustrated.GQ: Then how can you support sending the military on a mission that the American people don’t support?
MCCAIN: Because I know what’s best for the security of this nation. And if we don’t show signs of success, the American public will force us to pull out.GQ: It seems like the American people tried to force you to pull out, with their votes in the midterm elections.
MCCAIN: I think they were frustrated because we were deploying a bad strategy.GQ: So you think the message of the midterms was about the strategy and not the war itself?
MCCAIN: No, I think the message of the midterms was that the American people didn’t want any more out-of-control spending and corruption. Lieberman could never have been elected in a state like Connecticut if the message was just about Iraq.GQ: Okay, that’s fair. But if you’re saying that the American people have a problem with the strategy and not the war, the polls we just talked about indicate that they don’t like the new strategy, either.
MCCAIN: I think Americans don’t pay close attention. They see the crawl across the screen, and they know that we’ve been there a long time, and they’re frustrated.
Sort Comments By: Top Rated | Date
151 Responses to “McCain: ‘I Know What’s Best For The Security Of This Nation’”
When does McCain’s Swiftboating start?
April 17th, 2007 at 1:20 pmhe must be referring to his new country, McIraq
April 17th, 2007 at 1:21 pmOooooo, now I feel safe.
April 17th, 2007 at 1:21 pmSounds like McCain has bought into the rove/cheney/bush philosophy that Americans enjoy being lied to and told to disregard reality.
April 17th, 2007 at 1:25 pmMCCAIN: No, I think the message of the midterms was that the American people didn’t want any more out-of-control spending and corruption. Lieberman could never have been elected in a state like Connecticut if the message was just about Iraq.
Thanks for confirming your total removal from reality, Senator. Lieberman was elected on republican votes, because their candidate sucked so badly, republicans voted for Leiberman, rather than lose completely.
April 17th, 2007 at 1:25 pmMccrazy is slipping so far down the ladder soon every one will be saying “who”……Blessings
April 17th, 2007 at 1:25 pmsad
April 17th, 2007 at 1:27 pmMcCain: “I think Americans don’t pay close attention.†- - Translation: Most Americans are dumb. Johnny Mac may be on to something.
April 17th, 2007 at 1:28 pmThe biggest flip-flop still awaits: when McCain loses the primary, suddenly sees the light, reverses himself yet again, and calls for troop withdrawl. He might not even wait that long, if his polling numbers show that he can’t win. Wait for it, ’cause it will happen.
April 17th, 2007 at 1:30 pmNo.1 Comment by Elizabeth — April 17, 2007 @ 1:20 pm
“When does McCain’s Swiftboating start?”
Swiftboating by whom? No need for the Democratic party to do it, even if it was in their arsenal. He is self destructing.
April 17th, 2007 at 1:32 pm“They see the crawl across the screen, etc……….”
April 17th, 2007 at 1:34 pmAmericans do pay attention, which is why the only crawl we are really interested in seeing is your’s, back under the bus.
Quit wasting our time, Pork Chop.
McCain has become a joke.
April 17th, 2007 at 1:36 pmThere’s your proof. McCain is Bush If you want more Bush, vote for McCain.
April 17th, 2007 at 1:37 pmFunny that this is the same GQ that McCain said :”I’m a happy loser” during the interview. =P
April 17th, 2007 at 1:38 pmIf he gets the nomination, I’m just noting what is already not included in ThinkProgress.org’s “quick review of McCain’s credentials” that’s all.
April 17th, 2007 at 1:38 pmCaption:
“Wearing his favorite black ‘funeral attire’, John McCain poses for GQ magazine in the stairwell of the Bagdhad Hotel as he prepares to hand out free ‘Straight Talk Express’ bus tickets to the Iraqi Legislature”
April 17th, 2007 at 1:39 pmHas there ever been such a tone-deaf politician in recent memory? We’re all reeling from the incompetence of a president who revels in the fact that he DOESN’T listen to the American people and what they want. And, McCain just admits that he’s the same kind of guy - no respect for the people; no concern for what the people want. The guy is on his way to the dustbin of history - a footnote, nothing else.
April 17th, 2007 at 1:39 pmLieberman could never have been elected in a state like Connecticut if the message was just about Iraq.
Joey Liebs did not win because of his Iraq position. Joey Liebs won because, like any good neocrazy, Joey Liebs lied about his Iraq position in the run-up to the election. He kept talking about how he wanted to end the war. He neglected to mention that two weeks after the election, he would advocate sending more troops into Iraq. Like McCain, Joey Liebs is a very bad truthteller, but a very good neocrazy.
April 17th, 2007 at 1:40 pmFor me this is the money quote:
“And if we don’t show signs of success, the American public will force us to pull out.”
It tells me, right up front, that he will lie, distort or do anything necessary to keep this phony “war” alive. I would guess his fantasy is to become president and have the crown of commander in chief along with its power based around the idea of perpetual war.
And this is the neo-con game plan, following the advice of Machiavelli who stated as a necessary ingredient:
The ends justify the means.
April 17th, 2007 at 1:42 pmWhat he said: MCCAIN: Because I know what’s best for the security of this nation.
What he was thinking: Now shut up and take it up the adze.
April 17th, 2007 at 1:43 pmseems that McCain is following the dictum of Joseph Goebells(the Nazi War Propaganda Minister)which is “if a person lies over and over again, it will eventually become the truth.”
April 17th, 2007 at 1:43 pmDictatorial and domineering tendencies ….
I know what is the best for this country …regardless of majority of people disapproval…
Does not sound like a character who will apply democratic rules….but sounds instead as Stalinist…
April 17th, 2007 at 1:44 pmIf you want more Bush, vote for McCain.
Comment by pete — April 17, 2007 @ 1:37 pm
Now, there’s a winning campaign slogan! At least for testosterone-addled guys . . .
April 17th, 2007 at 1:47 pmI hate to tell McCain that he works for the American people. We make the decisions not McCain or Old Bush. What is it that they don’t get? What is it about 60 % of the American people want us out of Iraq NOW.
We will never have a Republican President in 2008.
April 17th, 2007 at 1:47 pmNo. 15 Comment by Elizabeth — April 17, 2007 @ 1:38 pm
“If he gets the nomination, I’m just noting what is already not included in ThinkProgress.org’s “quick review of McCain’s credentials†that’s all.
Haven’t had enough coffee this am. You have me confused. Please explain again what you mean.
April 17th, 2007 at 1:49 pmThanks
Elizabeth,
“Swift-Boating” connotates lying about a person. Where are the lies here?
April 17th, 2007 at 1:51 pmAnother batsh*t crazy thing from John (I just want to win a war for once) McCain.
At this point shouldn’t there be a question about his mental competency? Or, do we just accept the fact that he is a joke and just continue to laugh at him while people keep dying through our evil deeds that this POS has help to perpetrate?
Just curious.
April 17th, 2007 at 1:52 pmWhy do these politicians, that are but public servants, always think they know what’s good for us? We aren’t stupid McCain we know you idio- servants want to play Roman empire and read from a dual script.
Cut that sheet out, the world is fully discovered and technology has made it much smaller. YOU are the public servant now start acting like one and get my coffee will you. And no back talking either.
April 17th, 2007 at 1:58 pmCall it lies of omission then. McCain’s “credentials” certainly include his Naval Academy training and service in Vietnam, being held as a POW for 5 1/2 years, right?
April 17th, 2007 at 1:59 pmComment by B.Fly — April 17, 2007 @ 1:47 pm
not more bush. more Bush!
April 17th, 2007 at 2:01 pm“I think Americans don’t pay close attention.â€
This too, is right out of the neo-con playbook. Keep the public stupid and they won’t question us.
Back in 2001, Bush told the American public not to pay attention to what he was doing and to trust in the government to take care of everything.
Go out shopping, he told us! Don’t think.
Well, it took a few years for the people to get back from their shopping trip and see what had happened while they were gone. But back they are.
McBush made a political decision to throw in with the neo-cons, and now he has to keep going whether he wants to or not. There can be no turning back regardless how out of touch he is. He is on the bus and if he jumps off he dies. At least if he stays on, he keeps his fantasy alive until the bus goes over the cliff. Push back the execution date, as it were.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:07 pmMcCain: ‘I Know What’s Best For The Security Of This Nation’
To retire your pansy ass?
April 17th, 2007 at 2:08 pmAssuming you meant AFTER Inauguration Day 2009, Mary Poplins, here is just one possible way: during next year’s State of the Union address, Bush, Cheney, Pelosi, as well as Senators McCain, Clinton, Obama, etc. are all killed by Syrian terrorists, catapulting a relatively-unknown Republican cabinet member into the Oval Office, who has to rebuild the entire U.S. government from the ground floor AND successfully attacks Syria, finally bringing a lasting peace to the Middle East.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:08 pmCall it lies of omission then. McCain’s “credentials†certainly include his Naval Academy training and service in Vietnam, being held as a POW for 5 1/2 years, right?
Comment by Elizabeth
And as I recall the conservatives claimed he was damaged from that experience.
“[John] McCain is mentally unstable and vindictive and out of control.”
–Arizona Republican state commiteeman Rob Haney
Whos swiftboating McCain??
April 17th, 2007 at 2:09 pm#33,
Based upon our current “aim”, that means that we’ve have to attack Kazakhstan.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:12 pmWhere did you get your Kool-Aid, Elizabeth?
April 17th, 2007 at 2:14 pmI am guessing not from the regular trolls here, your’s seems to be pretty potent….
who has to rebuild the entire U.S. government from the ground floor AND successfully attacks Syria, finally bringing a lasting peace to the Middle East.
Thats what \/\/ thought would happen if he attacked Iraq. As you see it destabilized the middle east, did not bring lasting peace just as Bush Sr. and Scowcroft said it would.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:14 pm“W” did not get a Marshall Plan going after dropping a couple nukes on the enemy.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:19 pmMcCain: ‘I Know What’s Best For The Security Of This Nation’
Heh, your leaving politics?
April 17th, 2007 at 2:19 pmMight is not Right Elizabeth. You cannot install Democracy thru the end of a barrel. Democracy is like a garden. You have to till the soil, plant the seed and water it.
And if the environment isn’t right it still may not take root.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:20 pmRaven, I am actually drinking Gator-ade.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:21 pmNo. 27 Comment by Fed the Fcuk Up! — April 17, 2007 @ 1:52 pm
At this point shouldn’t there be a question about his mental competency? Or, do we just accept the fact that he is a joke…?
Just curious.
Neither. See my comment at No. 31.
This is all in the neo-con game plan. It ain’t working anymore but it did for a few years. Look at the big (overall) picture. Everything that looks like batshit is really preconceived and done with their end in mind.
They are not crazy. Not Bush or Cheney or any of these viscious neo-con bastards. They know exactly what they are doing! It is their basic philosophy!
April 17th, 2007 at 2:21 pm“W†did not get a Marshall Plan going after dropping a couple nukes on the enemy. Comment by Elizabeth
The enemy? As I recall it was called Operation Iraqi Freedom. Besides your talking about a world war. This was about freeing the Iraqi people from an oppressive ruler. Surely you haven’t forgot about that plan?
April 17th, 2007 at 2:24 pmI’m just refuting what Mary Poplins was claiming “We will never have a Republican President in 2008″ that’s all.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:29 pmComment by Raven — April 17, 2007 @ 1:39 pm
Caption:
“Wearing his favorite black ‘funeral attire’, John McCain poses for GQ magazine in the stairwell of the Bagdhad Hotel as he prepares to hand out free ‘Straight Talk Express’ bus tickets to the Iraqi Legislatureâ€
Beautiful view! Bravo!!
April 17th, 2007 at 2:30 pmI’m just refuting what Mary Poplins was claiming “We will never have a Republican President in 2008″ that’s all.
Comment by Elizabeth
It’s an opinion. You have a different opinion. So be it.
BTW I think Fords suck. And we should never have any FORDS again EVER! (8-P)
April 17th, 2007 at 2:34 pmwell, that was McPatronizing
April 17th, 2007 at 2:37 pmI personally wouldn’t trust him with the security of my completely empty garage.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:37 pmElizabeth,
I’m still waiting for understanding. Please respond to my post No. 25 which I repeat below. Thanks.
No. 15 Comment by Elizabeth — April 17, 2007 @ 1:38 pm
“If he gets the nomination, I’m just noting what is already not included in ThinkProgress.org’s “quick review of McCain’s credentials†that’s all.
Haven’t had enough coffee this am. You have me confused. Please explain again what you mean.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:39 pmThanks
I believe McCain has an incurable case of Bushitis. Retirement is the best meds he can take for this disease.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:42 pmMerlin, ThinkProgress.org failed to include any of McCain’s actual “national security” credentials. I’m just asking when the Swiftboating (he received a Silver Star, a Bronze Star, the Legion of Merit, the Purple Heart, and a Distinguished Flying Cross) starts, that’s all.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:43 pmhttp://www.boston.com/ news/ globe/ editorial_opinion/ oped/ articles/ 2004/ 03/ 21/ the_anatomy_of_a_smear_campaign/
If by swiftboating of mccain you mean a smear campaign that started in 2000 and was done by your demi-god’s henchmen.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:49 pmThe term swift-boating has entered the lexicon of American politco-speak to describe a malicious distortion of facts and events in an attempt to undermine a candidate for public office.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:51 pmThere will be no swift-boating of John McCain. He has done a superb job of sinking his own boat.
(I think ‘jake/patrick1′ has had a gender bender this afternoon……….)
April 17th, 2007 at 2:52 pmWe shall see.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:53 pm#46 Zep Tepi
I don’t care what you think We will have a Democrat President in 2008. The Democrats will add more Senator and House member in 2008.
As far as you hating Fords I want to tell you we have a Ford Mustang and we love it. SO BE IT JERK.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:53 pmAll you need to know about McDick….takes the glimmer off of silver stars, purple hearts and valiant POW stays at the Hanoi Hilton.
McCain has acknowledged engaging in extramarital affairs upon returning from Vietnam. While he was in Vietnam, his wife Carol had been severely injured in a car accident. Due to the accident, she had become 4 inches shorter, gained weight, and had to use crutches to walk. He soon began engaging in extramarital affairs and in 1979, he met Cindy Hensley. A year later, McCain sought a divorce from Carol and a month after that, he married Cindy.
Go home and stay home.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:55 pmNo. 51 Comment by Elizabeth — April 17, 2007 @ 2:43 pm
OK thanks for clarifying.
1. So, are you saying that you expect swiftboating to occur?
April 17th, 2007 at 2:57 pm2. Who do you believe will do the swiftboating?
3. You did not address the point made by Crump’s Brother in No.26 which implies that you might believe that whoever is doing the swiftboating will destroy McCain by lying. He is correct about the lying. So, who do you believe will do the lying?
what a jerk .He saw war from the air . Never saw the horror on the ground .HIS 5 YEARS IN HANOI
April 17th, 2007 at 3:00 pmIf he knew what was best he would have used diplomacy
April 17th, 2007 at 3:01 pmClearly, if McCain knew what was best for himself he wouldn’t have taken that ridiculous photo-op in Baghdad. That tanked his campaign entirely….although it was self-destructing because of his perpetual flip-flopping and outrageous lies. The photo-op really cinched the american people on how far out of touch this guy actually is. Pathetic to have someone so out of sync with the country running for president as though he really has a chance…yuk!
April 17th, 2007 at 3:04 pmComment by Elizabeth — April 17, 2007 @ 2:43 pm
Why even be concerned with an effort to swiftboat Mcsink. The canoe is rocking and there’s no lifejackets. If he is an example of what the republican party is going to allow from a potential candidate entrant, then the country is in great shape for at least a decade of Democratic majority.
They have no starters and they are letting the bench get some minutes.
April 17th, 2007 at 3:05 pmWhat a jerk .He saw war from the air , never the horror on the ground.
April 17th, 2007 at 3:05 pmDid his years in Hanoi warped his mind.He thinks he knows better that american people , what arrogance ? The last thing we need is him as president . What an A.s kissing jerk . Go take a walk by yourself in Bagdad and please do’nt holler for help.
Merlin, does “Never saw the horror on the ground” qualify?
April 17th, 2007 at 3:08 pmIf he knew what was best for his country he would shoot Bush then himself
April 17th, 2007 at 3:11 pmMcCain Claims Iraq Will Be Won Or Lost In ‘Next Several Months,’ Admits Previous Prediction Was Wrong
November 12 2006
Today on NBC’s Meet the Press, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) again claimed this is a “critical time†in Iraq and that “we’re either going to lose this thing or win this thing within the next several months.â€
Host Tim Russert noted that on December 8, 2005, McCain had said, “Overall, I think a year from now, we will have a fair amount of progress [in Iraq] if we stay the course.†McCain admitted he has “proven not to be correct.
April 17th, 2007 at 3:17 pmanyone with half a brain would say the best thing for the security of your country is not to make enemies
April 17th, 2007 at 3:18 pmscraping short range and long range missiles with a ban on nulear fission would be the best thing - Frugin moron
April 17th, 2007 at 3:21 pmNo. 64 Comment by Elizabeth — April 17, 2007 @ 3:08 pm
Merlin, does “Never saw the horror on the ground†qualify?
Is it possible for you to actually answer the questions I asked? Your response does not do that. There were 3 questions. Your answer addresses only no. 3 and does so with a question not an answer. This is no real answer at all.
I would appreciate it if you would try again.
Thanks
April 17th, 2007 at 3:22 pmMcCain Claims Iraq Will Be Won Or Lost In ‘Next Several Months,’ Admits Previous Prediction Was Wrong
November 12 2006
Several means “3″ I believe. So, are we due another admission of faulty prognostication?
C’mon Johnnie, help your neo-con pals push back the date when we we be able to declare “Mission Accomplished”. Oh, oh, that’s been done already.
April 17th, 2007 at 3:28 pmAs far as you hating Fords I want to tell you we have a Ford Mustang and we love it. SO BE IT JERK. Comment by Mary Poplin
I was not serious about Fords. I was making an example how opinions, which are only that, can anger people… You now call me a Jerk because of an opinion that you may not agree with. Now I am a Jerk because of a Car?
LMAO. Too Funny!!
April 17th, 2007 at 3:33 pmActually, it “addresses” all three questions. I expect Swiftboating from the Democrats via lying (and we already got a sample, from “skeptic”). Care to answer my questions now:
1. McCain’s “credentials†certainly include his Naval Academy training and service in Vietnam, being held as a POW for 5 1/2 years, right?
April 17th, 2007 at 3:37 pm2. Does “Never saw the horror on the ground†qualify (as Swiftboating)?
Even better, of course, was Tobey Tall’s “advice” to McCain: If he knew what was best for his country he would shoot Bush then himself.
April 17th, 2007 at 3:39 pmDid I ever tell you guys the color red sucks as well? =)
Elizabeth, I simply don’t think MCcain is electable, He’s wandering all over the political landscape and his own words trip him up. Sure he went to naval academy and that’s a credential. But being a POW, to me, isn’t.
April 17th, 2007 at 3:52 pmJohn Mc CAINE lives in a democracy ?
April 17th, 2007 at 3:53 pmNo. 71 Comment by Zep Tepi — April 17, 2007 @ 3:33 pm
You noted:
I was making an example how opinions, which are only that, can anger people…
Yeah, well you certainly hit the mark on that one! Talk about instant gratification!
April 17th, 2007 at 3:58 pmDoes anyone else see this thought bubble over his head?
“I wonder if I fart really quietly, will anyone smell it? Oops, too late.”
April 17th, 2007 at 3:59 pmNo. 72 Comment by Elizabeth — April 17, 2007 @ 3:37 pm
Elizabeth answers:
Actually, it “addresses†all three questions. I expect Swiftboating from the Democrats via lying (and we already got a sample, from “skepticâ€). Care to answer my questions now:
OK Here you are
1. McCain’s “credentials†certainly include his Naval Academy training and service in Vietnam, being held as a POW for 5 1/2 years, right?
2. Does “Never saw the horror on the ground†qualify (as Swiftboating)?
Answering No. 1-They are part of his history and his “resume” that he is presenting to the American public, I agree.
The problem with your argument is that the past does not excuse the present. The items listed above represent who Johnnie is today not 40 years ago. I don’t care so much what college he graduated from (Bushie was from Yale, whoopie) as how he is applying himself to the problems we face today.
And No. 2-No it does not. Ignorance is not necessarily lying. He may be confusing McBush with someone like Bushie who never saw anything but the US during his supposed NG stint (or Rumsfeld in the ANG). He really may not be aware of McCain’s heroism as a POW. I don’t expect people on this board to be correct about everything and don’t call people liars unless it is blatent and provable. I am not perfect and neither are you. We both will, from time to time, make mistakes and wrong statements. You should, IMO, call people on their errors.
That said, there is a large difference between people on a board like this who’s influence to truly destroy a candidate is almost zilch. “The Democrats” as a national party acting to swiftboat McBush is another story. I will predict there will be no swiftboating by the Democratic party. It frankly is not something they do. You are projecting the true actions of the neo-cons on to the Democratic Party. This is just plain wrong, IMO.
On the other hand McBush, himself, was done in that way by BushCo and the neo-cons in power back in 2000. Add to him, Max Cleland, (the triple amputee war hero) Senator who was visciously destroyed By BushCo, and of course the disgusting destruction of John Kerry’s reputation in 2004. (He hurt himself to get his medal!!! Indeed!)
Have you forgotten this most recent history of your neo-con party?
April 17th, 2007 at 4:34 pmI’m actually a Democrat, perhaps as you point out unduly concerned about my own party (or, let me be more technical, a “Section 527 unaffiliated with the DNC that just happens to be funded solely by Democrats”) Swiftboating a national war hero. I would point out that you may be overly optimistic in your prediction, given the huge temptation for revenge as “pay back” for Kerry’s poor treatment. We at least we agree it was wrong when the Republicans did it, and it would be wrong for us to do it too.
You did also see Tobey Tall’s “advice” to McCain, right?
BTW: attending the Naval Academy and flight school, as well as McCain’s service in Vietnam, qualifies as a hell of a lot more “national security credentials” than either Carter or Clinton had when they ran for President. That was no drunken frat party at Yale.
April 17th, 2007 at 4:56 pm#79 I love that…”I’m actually a Democrat…” That is a popular introduction from trolls.
I have not seen TP trash McCain’s military record so I am really wondering where you are coming from. McCain’s mental stability is the issue and that is more than enough to keep him out of the WH.
April 17th, 2007 at 5:25 pmPerhaps you missed “what a jerk .He saw war from the air . Never saw the horror on the ground .”? Comment by skeptic — April 17, 2007 @ 3:00 pm above. I have also been posting here a while and have been very critical of Bush on other threads. Just because I want to make sure we don’t repeat the mistakes made by the Republicans, you are going to jump all over me?
April 17th, 2007 at 5:31 pmDennis Kucinich (D-OH) is planning to introduce a bill of impeachment in the House against Vice President Dick Cheney.
Democrats are on politically safe ground impeaching Dick Cheney.
IMPEACH CHENEY IS BEST FOR AMERICA
April 17th, 2007 at 5:50 pm#81 So…you took a post by a reader from TP and suddenly everybody is swift-boating McCain? Everybody has their own opinion. To say that one persons comment is indicitive of whatever party they consider them part of is not realistic Anyway, if the left did it (which I don’t condone at all) I am not sure you could say we would be repeating the same mistakes made by Republicans considering it was very effective and handed the election to Bush.
April 17th, 2007 at 5:50 pmNo. 79
You opined:
I would point out that you may be overly optimistic in your prediction, given the huge temptation for revenge as “pay back†for Kerry’s poor treatment.
(Note: Kerry was NOT treated poorly! His reputation was destroyed, as was Cleland’s. What happened to them is a far cry from “politics as usual” or simply treating your opponent “poorly.”)
Maybe so, however, from a pragmatic point of view it would be very bad, not to say stupid, politics to swiftboat McBush. Why bother? He is already on his way down, and destroying his own reputation all by himself so rest your “concern.”
Regarding your “BTW,” I will repeat that the distant past is very little mitigation for recent actions. He is not the same person he was as a cadet at the academy. He is what is now, and that overrides his college credential.
A note: If you are a Democrat and really concerned about the party swiftboating as you posted, then why didn’t you say it that way on the earliest post? To do otherwise, is to confuse people with poor communication as has happened on this thread.
April 17th, 2007 at 5:59 pmIt was not just one isolated comment, and it would be WRONG regardless of whether it would be effective or not.
April 17th, 2007 at 6:01 pmMerlin, I didn’t say it that way because someone would have probably just called me a “troll.” Oh, wait, that just happened anyway.
April 17th, 2007 at 6:04 pm#85 So, it wasn’t an isolated comment? Ok, then where is this coordinated effort to swiftboat McCain and who is funding it? Sorry Elizabeth, it takes more than a few comments on a blog to swiftboat.
April 17th, 2007 at 6:12 pmNonetheless, I hope Tobey Tall will pardon me for saying so, but I believe impeachment, when Bush/Cheney are gone in a year and a half anyway, would be a political mistake for the Democrats as well. Besides, I thought McCain “shooting Bush and then himself” was “best for America”?
April 17th, 2007 at 6:13 pmMerlin, you did see Tobey Tall’s “advice” to McCain, right? BTW: Naval Academy students are Midshipman (for instance, a Freshman being a Midshipman Fourth Class or “Plebe” up through a Senior being a Midshipman First Class) not cadets.
April 17th, 2007 at 6:19 pm#88 I think even if they are out of office when it happens they should be impeached. It isn’t totally about removing them from office. It is about telling them and those who would emulate them that it is not ok to rip up the Constitution.
April 17th, 2007 at 6:22 pmJPark, the SBVT released their book attacking Kerrying in AUGUST of 2004. So. we’ve got a ways to go (and I said it will happen IF McCain gets the nomination). The revenge factor will be too great. You don’t think any Democrats are trying to contact any of his fellow POWs?
April 17th, 2007 at 6:24 pmYou know, some people are speculating that this all has to do with Iraq switching to the Euro in 2000 for oil trading - a move that severely undercuts the dollar’s value. Iran is threatening the same thing, and china has actually converted their currency in dealings with Iran. If this is to happen, the dollar’s value would fall tremendously. Our economy would collapse and we would be in turmoil. So, to me, that’s a legitimate reason. BUT - what are we doing about it? That’s the real kicker. Are we weening ourselves off of oil? no? Then we can expect problems. The only way out of the middle-east is to stop the oil dependency. that’s the only way.
April 17th, 2007 at 6:26 pmWHAT?! “even if they are out of office when it happens they should be impeached”? They can’t be “impeached” then. They can be indicted instead. Maybe that’s what you meant?
April 17th, 2007 at 6:26 pm#91 Well, he isn’t going to get the nomination so the point is moot. And no, I don’t think the Dems would try to swiftboat McCain. They have never taken the gloves off before and they won’t in this election either. I have every confidence in the Dems rolling over…again.
April 17th, 2007 at 6:30 pm#93 No, I meant impeached. There could be a legal challenge to it on jurisdictional grounds but impeachment after resignation has precedent.
http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/pardonop3.htm
April 17th, 2007 at 6:38 pmWow! You learn something new every day. Thanks for the information.
April 17th, 2007 at 6:44 pmelizabeth……….. there’s a great discourse on sex, including verbal masturbation, on the abstinance thread, care to offer your expertise over there?
April 17th, 2007 at 6:45 pmOuch! The claws come out. No thanks.
April 17th, 2007 at 6:50 pmOK, Elizabeth, you pass.
April 17th, 2007 at 6:56 pmYou’re not jake/patrick.
You can stay.
But only until McCain loses the primary, please?
Why is that?
April 17th, 2007 at 6:59 pmMerlin, you did see Tobey Tall’s “advice†to McCain, right?
I haven’t a clue what this is about. Please give us a link so we can follow up.
Regarding your remark to J Park: “The revenge factor will be too great.” I think you impugn your own party more than I think a Democrat would normally would. That confuses me. I’m not aware of the Democrats doing any swiftboating in recent history. Your “over concern,” as you put it sounds more like a damning statement that is guaranteed to happen. That sounds more like something a Republican would say.
Are you really a Democrat? You don’t talk like one.
April 17th, 2007 at 7:11 pmI really am a Democrat. I was referring to post number 65 above:
If (McCain) knew what was best for his country he would shoot Bush then himself
Comment by Tobey Tall — April 17, 2007 @ 3:11 pm
I don’t know if this link will help you:
http://thinkprogress.org/ 2007/ 04/ 17/ mccain-knows-best/ #comment-3754085
April 17th, 2007 at 7:17 pmholy horseshit, batman
April 17th, 2007 at 7:39 pmmccain is a bush-cheney-rice clone (or clown)
don’t waste your money or time on the deluded fool
self-destruction is coming
#100… Elizabeth
April 17th, 2007 at 7:46 pm“why is that”
It seems McCain is the only subject you wish to discuss, and he did say recently how all of a sudden he holds blogging in regard.
Just guessing you might be a campaign worker, that’s all……..
No, I have discussed the Gonzales situation too, but if you guessed “rabidbunny” that would be getting closer …
April 17th, 2007 at 7:49 pmAre you two aquaintances?
April 17th, 2007 at 7:51 pm“I know what’s best for the security of this nation “- John McCain
Yeah, right, like more heavily armed photo ops in Baghdad’s market?
April 17th, 2007 at 8:01 pmMcCain’s stupidity is exceeded only by Bush & Cheney.
April 17th, 2007 at 8:02 pmElizabeth:
You corrected me:
Naval Academy students are Midshipman not cadets.
Sorry, I spent my time in the army and haven’t a clue what navel ranks are. I stand corrected. At west Point they are cadets. And the Air Force calls theirs what?
Regarding Comment by Tobey Tall: I take this kind of remark as his response to the utter devistation in Iraq and the attempted destruction of our Democracy (the Patriot Act being the most eggregious, but there are many). I have felt the anger he expresses from the time I knew Bush was going into Iraq until shortly before the 2006 election. The expression of anger against oppression is a natural one and often motivates people to positive action.
As the saying goes:
I’m mad as hell and I won’t take it anymore.”
So, the bottom line is I don’t take this angry and bitter rant for more than just that. And I do not think using it to prove an argument is a valid use.
In fact, look at all the posturing on the Juan Cole thread. I take none of it to mean anything more than schoolyard taunting. Growing up in NY (as I did many years ago) teaches you that. The combination of the pecking order and raw testosterone flow can create some exciting times. Almost all of it relatively both harmless and meaningless in the big and more important picture.
April 17th, 2007 at 8:06 pmLIAR LIAR, LIAR! This guy should be going to an old folks home, not running a country. He’s lost touch wil reality and he doesn’t know it. I think althemiers is setting in on John McCain.
April 17th, 2007 at 8:54 pmYou could say that, Raven.
Merlin, I don’t know what they call them in the Air Force.
April 17th, 2007 at 9:01 pmWhile you haven’t, Elizabeth.
April 17th, 2007 at 9:09 pmYou are rabidbunny, Elizabeth?
April 17th, 2007 at 9:28 pmNo.
April 17th, 2007 at 9:40 pmThey might be “office buds”, however…
April 17th, 2007 at 9:54 pm#114 Married to rabidbunny?
April 17th, 2007 at 9:55 pmI think I know what’s ailing John…. wish I could remember what it was…
April 18th, 2007 at 12:14 amFour words to the remember when domestic and foreign policy competence matter: BILL RICHARDSON FOR PRESIDENT”
April 18th, 2007 at 2:15 amThe enemy? As I recall it was called Operation Iraqi Freedom. Besides your talking about a world war. This was about freeing the Iraqi people from an oppressive ruler. Surely you haven’t forgot about that plan?
Comment by Zep Tepi — April 17, 2007 @ 2:24 pm
ACTUALLY, this war was about WMD, the support shifted after finding out there were no WMD.
April 18th, 2007 at 7:18 amWhy should anyone trust McCain’s judgement on fighting a war. I’m sorry, but, despite McCain’s bravery and endurance in surviving a POW camp, he really had no experience of the Vietnam War. He was a POW for virtually the entire active part of the war. He saw and learned nothing during the course of the war. Anything he might have learned would have had to come AFTER the war, when he most certainly had other priorities. His judgement about fighting an insurgency and a civil war should be considered non-operational.
Further, he was a pilot. Flyers are notoriously inept on judging how to engage conflict in a civil war. Their idea of success is the tightness of the bomb package on target. McCain, in summary, is UNQUALIFIED to comment about the civil war and insurgency in Iraq. We should ignore him and the American electorate seems to be learning that lesson.
April 18th, 2007 at 7:23 amNo, JPark.
PrahaPartizan, as I said above, McCain has a bit more “national security credentials†than either Carter or Clinton had when they ran for President. I’m not saying I would vote for McCain, but I cannot deny he does have the credentials.
April 18th, 2007 at 9:52 amAfter graduating from the Naval Academy in 1958, McCain went to flight school and was later deployed to Vietnam in 1966. What do you consider the “active part of the war”? I will have to double-check how many combat missions he flew prior to becoming a POW. On July 29, 1967, while aboard the USS Forrestal off the coast of Vietnam, a Zuni rocket from an F-4 Phantom was accidentally fired across the carrier’s deck. The rocket struck McCain’s A-4E Skyhawk as the jet was preparing for launch. The impact ruptured the Skyhawk’s fuel tank, which ignited the fuel and knocked two bombs loose. McCain escaped from his jet by climbing out of the cockpit, working himself to the nose of the jet, and jumping off its refueling probe onto the burning deck of the aircraft carrier. Ninety seconds after the impact, one of the bombs exploded underneath his airplane. McCain was struck in the legs and chest by shrapnel. The ensuing fire killed 132 sailors, injured 62 others, destroyed at least 20 aircraft, and threatened to sink the ship. McCain continued flying combat missions until October 26, 1967, when he was shot down and taken prisoner.
So, claiming he had “no experience” or “saw and learned nothing during the course of the war” sounds awfully close to Kerry’s Swiftboating. I posted his medals above, so which one(s) were undeserved?
April 18th, 2007 at 10:08 amWhat do you think, Merlin (no, I’m not asking whether you think PrahaPartizan has filed the necessary Section 527 paperwork yet)?
April 18th, 2007 at 10:23 amI believe that all this talk of competence is beside the point. I go with the philosophy that I read in the talk and actions of the person I am judging. John McCain is pro war and I am decidedly anti war. Therefore I want him and all other pro war candidates defeated. And that includes the big H and Obama if he doesn’t agree with that position. A couple of months ago my worst case scenario in the presidential election was McCain vs Clinton. I would find voting very painful if those were my choices.
In my view we need to leave Iraq “yesterday,” and all this talk about who is, or isn’t, competent to “win” this phony “war” (that isn’t a war) is simply bullshit. There is no other course of action to take but leave as quickly and safely as possible. And that includes handing over to the Iraqis the bases that we have been, and continue, to build out. These bases represent an obvious goal of continued occupation in someone elses country. This time in Iraq. There are over 100 of them with 4 being huge (almost cities.) We have no right to occupy another country, control their politics or usurp their commerce, (the biggest issue being their oil.) What Paul Bremmer did with his 100 edicts was a really terrible thing (for which he received the Medal of Freedom!) All this not to mention our building the biggest embassy in the world there or the huge mercenary fighting force we use that is flying under the radar of our media reporting. (Estimated to be 150 thousand if I remember correctly.)
This country needs to get off this huge ego trip about being the biggest military power in the world and its view that Pax Americana is our rightful destiny. We have a very important place in the world of nations, but that is comment for another time.
Summarizing McCain, I believe he buys in on all of the things I’ve mentioned above and would only perpetuate the disastrous path the neo-con cabal in power has pursued (since the early 70s, actually.) We need new leadership with a totally new direction without the corruption and arrogance that exists. John McCain is simply unfit to be president because of his philosophy, IMO. I am glad he is self destructing.
Did I answer your question, Elizabeth?
April 18th, 2007 at 11:20 amNo, Merlin, you didn’t answer the question. You skipped right over the question and answered why you won’t be voting for McCain regardless. I’ve already stated I won’t be voting for McCain either. My question (since the beginning of this thread) is about the upcoming Swiftboating IF McCain gets the nomination: is claiming McCain had “no experience†or “saw and learned nothing during the course of the war†is analogous to Kerry’s Swiftboating? Anyone else care to answer THAT question?
April 18th, 2007 at 11:30 amNo, that didn’t answer my question.
April 18th, 2007 at 12:55 pmElizabeth,
Why don’t you try asking for what you want to know? If you don’t, you get back the wrong reply.
You asked:
“What do you think, Merlin (no, I’m not asking whether you think PrahaPartizan has filed the necessary Section 527 paperwork yet)?”
This was so vague that I chose to tell you where I stand and who I am, which I would like you to do as well. All that footsie playing with Raven is just plain silly.
Now, what is it you want me to talk about.
April 18th, 2007 at 1:16 pmI did try that, Merlin, but my post was deleted. So I will try again:
QUESTION: Is claiming that McCain had “no experience†or “saw and learned nothing during the course of the war†analogous in any way to Kerry’s Swiftboating?
April 18th, 2007 at 1:38 pmAs for where I stand and who I am, I already said above I wouldn’t vote for McCain, but I cannot deny that he does have the credentials for the job. That has been my beef with this thread from the beginning.
April 18th, 2007 at 1:41 pmthen put the cow out to pasture…
April 18th, 2007 at 2:03 pmNo. 129
QUESTION: Is claiming that McCain had “no experience†or “saw and learned nothing during the course of the war†analogous in any way to Kerry’s Swiftboating
No it is not, for the reason I stated in a previous thread. This is opinion and not reputation destroying.
On that same point, I disagree with you in your narrow view that
“I cannot deny that he does have the credentials for the job.”
That I disagree with you is only my opinion and does not harm your reputation. No swiftboating here. Likewise, the article listed only his recent actions and did not include his early resume. This is not swiftboating. Slanted opinion, of course. Everything on these blogs is slanted, whether right or left wing. Now had the article stated that McCain lied about his war effort or had it easy in the prison camp, I would agree that would be swiftboating.
Are we on the same page about what swiftboating means? If not, here is Wikipedia on it:
Swiftboating is American political jargon for an ad hominem attack usually resulting in a benefit to an established political force.
April 18th, 2007 at 2:06 pmThis form of attack is controversial, easily repeatable, and difficult to verify or disprove because it is generally based on personal feelings or recollections. It frequently refers to a campaign that uses viral marketing techniques to sell the allegations. By using credible-sounding sources to make sensational and difficult-to-disprove accusations against an opponent, the campaign leverages media tendencies to focus on a controversial story. (bold emphasis mine)
At least I’m not just posting about McCain anymore, Raven. See you over on the Partial-Birth abortion posts.
Sorry, Merlin, but my actual question to you about post number 120 keeps getting deleted. Have a nice life.
April 18th, 2007 at 2:10 pmNow my question in post number 129 is back. Hopefully you see it, Merlin, or are you the one doing magic tricks with disappearing posts?
April 18th, 2007 at 2:17 pmElizabeth,
You asked:
“are you the one doing magic tricks with disappearing posts?”
You give me more credit than I deserve. Might be a nice ability to have. Just because my name is merlin doesn’t mean that I …
I too have been suffering disappearing and non posting posts. I did answer #129 but it appears to have gone to digital heaven. And the bother is my posts are not brief so recreating them is a pain.
April 18th, 2007 at 2:25 pmElizabeth,
April 18th, 2007 at 2:29 pmNow this is wierd. My #129 just replaced your #129 on my screen! Do you see it. I will cut and paste and post it again before it disappears again.
I saw a fleeting glimpse of both for a just a moment:
QUESTION: Is claiming that McCain had “no experience†or “saw and learned nothing during the course of the war†analogous in any way to Kerry’s Swiftboating
No it is not, for the reason I stated in a previous thread. This is opinion and not reputation destroying.
On that same point, I disagree with you in your narrow view that
“I cannot deny that he does have the credentials for the job.â€
That I disagree with you is only my opinion and does not harm your reputation. No swiftboating here. Likewise, the article listed only his recent actions and did not include his early resume. This is not swiftboating. Slanted opinion, of course. Everything on these blogs is slanted, whether right or left wing. Now had the article stated that McCain lied about his war effort or had it easy in the prison camp, I would agree that would be swiftboating.
Are we on the same page about what swiftboating means? If not, here is Wikipedia on it:
Swiftboating is American political jargon for an ad hominem attack usually resulting in a benefit to an established political force.
April 18th, 2007 at 2:30 pmThis form of attack is controversial, easily repeatable, and difficult to verify or disprove because it is generally based on personal feelings or recollections. It frequently refers to a campaign that uses viral marketing techniques to sell the allegations. By using credible-sounding sources to make sensational and difficult-to-disprove accusations against an opponent, the campaign leverages media tendencies to focus on a controversial story. (bold emphasis mine)
Elizabeth,
April 18th, 2007 at 2:31 pmAnd now after a refresh, yours is back and mine is gone! Their server is really screwed up!
Yes, it is weird. Especially given the technical (or nefarious) glitches, maybe we should just agree to disagree for now. IF McCain gets the nomination, and IF the Democrats use any of what I’ve objected to above, then we will have to re-visit the issue.
April 18th, 2007 at 2:34 pmElizabeth,
Here it is again, note the time of the original post.
No. 129
QUESTION: Is claiming that McCain had “no experience†or “saw and learned nothing during the course of the war†analogous in any way to Kerry’s Swiftboating
No it is not, for the reason I stated in a previous thread. This is opinion and not reputation destroying.

On that same point, I disagree with you in your narrow view that:
“I cannot deny that he does have the credentials for the job.â€
That I disagree with you is only my opinion and does not harm your reputation. No swiftboating here. Likewise, the article listed only his recent actions and did not include his early resume. This is not swiftboating. Slanted opinion, of course. Everything on these blogs is slanted, whether right or left wing. Now had the article stated that McCain lied about his war effort or had it easy in the prison camp, I would agree that would be swiftboating.
Are we on the same page about what swiftboating means? If not, here is Wikipedia on it:
Swiftboating is American political jargon for an ad hominem attack usually resulting in a benefit to an established political force.
This form of attack is controversial, easily repeatable, and difficult to verify or disprove because it is generally based on personal feelings or recollections. It frequently refers to a campaign that uses viral marketing techniques to sell the allegations. By using credible-sounding sources to make sensational and difficult-to-disprove accusations against an opponent, the campaign leverages media tendencies to focus on a controversial story. (bold emphasis mine)
April 18th, 2007 at 2:36 pmComment by Merlin — April 18, 2007 @ 2:06 pm
Then you can explain to me how the claim that McCain “saw nothing during the course of the war†is different from “Kerry was not in Cambodia” …
April 18th, 2007 at 2:46 pmNow my original restatement of the question at 11:30 am is back, Merlin:
You skipped right over the question and answered why you won’t be voting for McCain regardless. I’ve already stated I won’t be voting for McCain either. My question (since the beginning of this thread) is about the upcoming Swiftboating IF McCain gets the nomination: is claiming McCain had “no experience†or “saw and learned nothing during the course of the war†is analogous to Kerry’s Swiftboating? Anyone else care to answer THAT question?
April 18th, 2007 at 2:51 pmElizabeth, Here is the post again. Note the time of the original post.
April 18th, 2007 at 3:28 pmNo. 129
QUESTION: Is claiming that McCain had “no experience†or “saw and learned nothing during the course of the war†analogous in any way to Kerry’s Swiftboating
No it is not, for the reason I stated in a previous thread. This is opinion and not reputation destroying.
On that same point, I disagree with you in your narrow view that
“I cannot deny that he does have the credentials for the job.â€
That I disagree with you is only my opinion and does not harm your reputation. No swiftboating here. Likewise, the article listed only his recent actions and did not include his early resume. This is not swiftboating. Slanted opinion, of course. Everything on these blogs is slanted, whether right or left wing. Now had the article stated that McCain lied about his war effort or had it easy in the prison camp, I would agree that would be swiftboating.
Are we on the same page about what swiftboating means? If not, here is Wikipedia on it:
Swiftboating is American political jargon for an ad hominem attack usually resulting in a benefit to an established political force.
This form of attack is controversial, easily repeatable, and difficult to verify or disprove because it is generally based on personal feelings or recollections. It frequently refers to a campaign that uses viral marketing techniques to sell the allegations. By using credible-sounding sources to make sensational and difficult-to-disprove accusations against an opponent, the campaign leverages media tendencies to focus on a controversial story. (bold emphasis mine)
Comment by Merlin — April 18, 2007 @ 2:06 pm
OK This is the 4th attempt.
No. 129
QUESTION: Is claiming that McCain had “no experience†or “saw and learned nothing during the course of the war†analogous in any way to Kerry’s Swiftboating
April 18th, 2007 at 5:54 pmNo it is not, for the reason I stated in a previous thread. This is opinion and not reputation destroying.
On that same point, I disagree with you in your narrow view that
“I cannot deny that he does have the credentials for the job.â€
That I disagree with you is only my opinion and does not harm your reputation. No swiftboating here. Likewise, the article listed only his recent actions and did not include his early resume. This is not swiftboating. Slanted opinion, of course. Everything on these blogs is slanted, whether right or left wing. Now had the article stated that McCain lied about his war effort or had it easy in the prison camp, I would agree that would be swiftboating.
Are we on the same page about what swiftboating means? If not, here is Wikipedia on it:
Swiftboating is American political jargon for an ad hominem attack usually resulting in a benefit to an established political force.
This form of attack is controversial, easily repeatable, and difficult to verify or disprove because it is generally based on personal feelings or recollections. It frequently refers to a campaign that uses viral marketing techniques to sell the allegations. By using credible-sounding sources to make sensational and difficult-to-disprove accusations against an opponent, the campaign leverages media tendencies to focus on a controversial story. (bold emphasis mine)
Comment by Merlin — April 18, 2007 @ 2:06 pm
McCain drove off the road into the desert a few years ago. He used to be a straight talkin son of a bitch who hated Chimpy. Now, I can’t see why he is mostly on his side, when the shit from Chimpy & Co. is all over the place.
Oh, I see, he’s wearing cowboy boots so it don’t matter.
April 24th, 2007 at 11:46 pmBest Country To Retire
I don’t mean to be too in your face, but I’m not sure I agree with this. Anyhow, thanks for sharing and I think I’ll come to this blog more often.
March 26th, 2008 at 5:31 amBest Cities For Retirement
Your blog makes very interesting reading. I’m sure others will think so too I look forward to reading their comments.
March 30th, 2008 at 11:37 ammustang and fast fords
Although various pistonless rotary engine designs have attempted to compete with the conventional piston and crankshaft design, only
March 31st, 2008 at 10:00 pmbest money market
I found your post comments while searching Google. Very relevant especially as this is not an issue which a lot of peaople are conversant with.
April 5th, 2008 at 2:14 amWhen Is Best Month To Sell Your House
Thanks for this post!
April 5th, 2008 at 4:25 pmWeight Loss Low Carbohydrate Diet The Zone Diet
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
April 6th, 2008 at 4:35 amAss Thick Ass Babes Kick Ass
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
April 6th, 2008 at 4:54 am