Virginia Tech Gathers For Memorial Service At 2 PM
Virginia Tech Gathers For Memorial Service At 2 PM
“President George W. Bush and Virginia Gov. Tim Kaine will lead tributes to the victims of yesterday’s shooting at Virginia Tech’s memorial service today. Bush, joined by his wife Laura, will appear on campus ‘as representatives of the entire nation,’ White House spokeswoman Dana Perino said at a briefing this morning. … The event, to take place at the Blacksburg, Va, university’s Cassell Coliseum, will begin at 2 p.m. with a musical prelude by the Virginia Tech Corps of Cadet’s band, the Highty Tighties.”
UPDATE: Many media organizations have turned to the blogs and social networking sites for news on what happened. But other news organizations, such as ABC, NBC, and the Times of London, have started pages on Facebook soliciting interviews from students in hope of scoring “the big ‘get’” — an interivew with someone who “knew Cho Seung-Hui”:
UPDATE II: Right-wing reaction to the shootings: The National Review’s John Derbyshire asks, “[W]hy didn’t anyone rush the guy? It’s not like this was Rambo, hosing the place down with automatic weapons. He had two handguns for goodness’ sake–one of them reportedly a .22.” Right-wing pundit Debbie Schlussel speculated that Cho Seung-Hui, “who had been identified at that point only as a man of Asian descent, might be a ‘Paki’ Muslim and part of ‘a coordinated terrorist attack.’”
UPDATE III: “An English professor recommended that gunman Cho Seung-Hui receive counseling after the Virginia Tech student submitted a violent one-act play that featured scenes of murder and pedophilia as part of a creative-writing class, according to The Smoking Gun, a website that features original documents and reporting.”
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Wait a minute. Didn't this just happen yesterday?
It took him 3 days to do a "fly-by" over New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina!
April 17th, 2007 at 1:57 pmAh yes, thing's have changed for our dear leader..It took him 4 day's to respond to Katrina, now his poll's have sliped and he will go to the college to insure a good photo op.....bush is a disgusting piece of crap....Blessings...Impeach, jail and seize all their asset's.. P.S..N.O. is still waiting for his promises and 1,500 died....Iraq is still on going and 3,312 troop's died....
April 17th, 2007 at 1:58 pmWhile he is at it maybe Bush can pay tribute to the almost 100 Iraqis who everyday in Iraq or the almost 600000 Iraqis who have died since his war started. A couple of sentences should cover it.
April 17th, 2007 at 1:59 pmanyone want to bet that George talks about how "neat" guns are?
April 17th, 2007 at 2:00 pmFailure in Chief has not represented me the past 6+ years. he does NOT represent me now.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:01 pmWow, 30 or so soldiers have died in Iraq this month alone. No "memorials", no events, no yellow-ribbons, no tributes, no mourning.
But, 30 students (roughly same age as the dead soldiers) get killed and its a tragedy of epic proportions. There will be a day of prayer. There will be endless coverage of the trauma caused the family and friends. There will be news stories about what promising lives they were. There will be calls for stricter immigration and a general condemnation of anything "Korean".
If you do not see the moral hypocrisy here then you just aren't looking.
Heck, in Iraq a day where only 30 people were killed in acts of insane violence would be a GOOD DAY.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:02 pmYou people are sickening , you make me embarassed to be a progressive! Is there ANYTHING that you can leave politics and Bush out of? Jesus. He's the POTUS and this is a national tragedy. Let's show the appropriate respect and class.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:03 pmPolitically staged Photo Op. Period.
Will he read from "my pet goat" and sit there with a blank moronic stare for 20 minutes afterwards? Or, if the meds have kicked in, will he mention the war on terra and 9/11 without mentioning the higher number of daily Iraqi fatalities that he and his gang are responsible for?
April 17th, 2007 at 2:05 pmThy name is hypocrite and thy name is Joe.
Save us your sanctimonious feigned indignation.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:07 pmThe number is 58.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:07 pmjoe: Is there anything his bushness does that Rove has not politically spun? He has neither respect nor class, and IS a national disaster.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:08 pm#7.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:08 pmSorry, joe, but Bush's capitalization on this event is pretty sickening.
You people are sickening , you make me embarassed to be a progressive! Is there ANYTHING that you can leave politics and Bush out of? Jesus. He’s the POTUS and this is a national tragedy. Let’s show the appropriate respect and class.
Comment by joe — April 17, 2007 @ 2:03 pm
I concur. This is a day of mourning and prayer. Libs, leave the politics out.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:09 pmjoe: "You people are sickening , you make me embarassed to be a progressive!"
When Whitehouse spokesperson Dana Perino made her very first public statement on this tragedy, she took the time to defend the NRA and point out that this shouldn't be about the right to own firearms. If you thought that was inappropriate, fine. If not, then shut up.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:11 pmMy ex-wife snapped this picture of the Beta Bridge in Charlottesville, Virginia, home of The University of Virginia. Normally, rivals, but now bonded in shared sorrow and support. Hoos for Hokies...
April 17th, 2007 at 2:11 pm
32 African American children died in Los Angeles over the weekend due to violence. Where is your prayer vigil for them? Is YOUR POTUS going to visit? Yeah thats what i thought.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:13 pmDarryll: from the "Libs" to the Cons on leaving politics out: you first.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:16 pm#10,
Whose counting. I mean, isn't this a tree falling in the forest scenario?
I say that not with intended wit, but utter disgust.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:17 pm(comment by Daryll)
"... leave the politics out"
April 17th, 2007 at 2:17 pmWhich is why Bush should stay away.
Spiritual leaders only.
Whoops, the link didn't come through... Click here for the picture of Beta Bridge.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:17 pmIf he did not go you would bash him. If he goes you bash him. Tell me you friggin a______s, what could he do that right? Nothing right? Look in the mirror. There is someone who is a hater. You made up you mind and closed it. You are the most ignorant group ever.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:18 pmI thought what Perino said was highly inappropriate and I think just about every comment on this site has also been highly inappropriate.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:18 pmSorry Joe, but both Hurricane Katrina and the Iraq Occupation are national tragedies and Bush is the POTUS.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:18 pmWhich is why Bush should stay away.
Comment by Raven — April 17, 2007 @ 2:17 pm
He is the PRESIDENT. I don't like the guy, but it's part of his duty to speak at events like this.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:19 pmDaryll sez:
Daryll, every day is a day of prayer for you...
April 17th, 2007 at 2:19 pmI am for one. I'll bet many of the others here, sans trolls of course, are counting as well.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:21 pmYes, let's keep politics out of this and only "feel" it from a humanistic viewpoint.
Say those who walk around with the death certificates of 600,000 plus American-murdered Iraqis in their back pockets to be used as toilet paper.
Yes, indeed.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:21 pmI'm with Joe.
Bush's failures as a president and his administration's eagerness to politicize everything have little to do with his response to this tragedy. He himself has little to do with this tragedy.
Let's focus on the grieving survivors and loved ones, overcome our political wounds and concerns, and pay respect to the moment and the solemnity it demands.
There are some things bigger than politics.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:22 pm(comment by Daryll)
“… leave the politics outâ€
Which is why Bush should stay away.
Spiritual leaders only.
Comment by Raven — April 17, 2007 @ 2:17 pm
He's our COMMANDER IN CHIEF. He should be there to comfort the families of the deceased. Cease adding liberalism into this issue. I will continue to pray for your party. There must be change!!!
April 17th, 2007 at 2:22 pmWas there anything Hitler did "right?" He had a dog I think. So, Hitler and Bush have dogs. That could be considered "right." Everything else Bush does is for political purposes. So, go fu*k yourself.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:23 pmThe MSM is referring to the sad, deplorable events of yesterday as the largest single mass killing in U.S. history...39 were killed by the NY state police at Attica!
my goal is to find a cure for irony and make a fool outta god
April 17th, 2007 at 2:23 pmIf he did not go you would bash him. If he goes you bash him. Tell me you friggin a______s, what could he do that right? Nothing right? Look in the mirror. There is someone who is a hater. You made up you mind and closed it. You are the most ignorant group ever.
Comment by Happy Guy — April 17, 2007 @ 2:18 pm
They're not ignorant, they're just confused. I truly believe Satan is using them right now, but I will continue to rebuke him.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:24 pmGo suck your wife's d!ck Daryll.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:24 pmYeah, he is so good at comforting. As comforting as the Spanish Inquisition.
You better start with praying for your own party or it won't be around very much longer.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:26 pmDaryll sez:
I concur. This is a day of mourning and prayer. Libs, leave the politics out.
Daryll, every day is a day of prayer for you…
Comment by TripMaster Monkey — April 17, 2007 @ 2:19 pm
You've got that right. I have to pray deamons out of our society. I also pray that people like you are able to see the light and give your life to Jesus. I will continue to pray until the coming of Jesus Christ.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:26 pmdude, you gotta love how HAPPYGUY links directly to the Drudge report, and is busting on us for being 'haters'. And how is Drudge NOT everything you just accused us of being, Happy Guy?
April 17th, 2007 at 2:27 pmALSO, this is a POLITICAL BLOG.idiots
April 17th, 2007 at 2:28 pm"He’s the POTUS and this is a national tragedy" You are right. This is a national tragedy which Bush immediately policicized by speaking about our right to bear arms before the bodies of the 32 students were even cold. He's going there for a photo op and nothing else. Actually I think Bush is probably very happy this happened. It has knocked the crimes and misdeeds of his Administration off the front page. Bush may be your POTUS but he isn't mine. He is a usurper and he is a criminal.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:28 pmWhich, I assume you are pretty sure is coming before Jan 21st, 2009 Darryl?
April 17th, 2007 at 2:29 pmVirginia Tech reports shooting (multiple)
April 17th, 2007 at 2:30 pm#26,
Great, I'm glad that you have an awareness, but it's my opinion that you are in the minority.
So, being one that pays attention to the numbers, what number is the pinnacle, in your mind, when you stand up and say "ENOUGH!" Will it be the number that represents my nephew? Or the number that represents someone that you know and love? Or the number that will be for some poor African/American kid from Alabama? Or do we just deal in round numbers, say 5,000 or 10,000 or 100,000?
Just curious.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:30 pmThanks Joe. I agree. But, at some point we have to begin a discussion on why our society is so violent. We're not the only society subject to this kind of tragedy. Germany and Australia have also had incidents like this in recent years.
I would like people to consider what Michael Moore demonstrated in his movie, "Bowling for Columbine" -- Canada has more gun ownership per capita than we do, but lots less violence. Why?
April 17th, 2007 at 2:31 pmFind me a quote from the President himself politicizing this.
Perino made an unnecessary comment at the press briefing, and I am angry about that - just as I am angry about what all of you are doing.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:31 pmI didn't think we needed Captain Obvious, but he does come in handy from time to time. Already ready to say the day with logic.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:34 pmJoe the concern troll is like the fundie p0rn censorship committees: if it's all so inappropriate, why does joe keep looking at it? oooh, aaah, that's nasty, let me see it again, ohhhh yeahhh.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:37 pmSpudgie: sometimes a reminder of just what these troll are posting to is in order....
April 17th, 2007 at 2:37 pm"here I come to save the day!"
Joe: "Find me a quote from the President himself politicizing this."
I don't want to argue about this, but Perino IS the President's spokesperson. As such, she speaks for the President. Now, how about the various bible thumpers around here using this tragedy as an opportunity to "witness" us? I don't know about you, but that annoys the heck out of me. One of the people killed was a Jewish professor who was a survivor of the holocaust. He died while attempting to protect students. The same people who are here trying to "witness" us think he's going to hell. I find that disgusting.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:37 pmBush just told the students they can "call any one of us" if they need help.
Maybe Katrina victims ought to call while the line is "temporarily" open.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:38 pmWhile he is at it maybe Bush can pay tribute to the almost 100 Iraqis who everyday in Iraq or the almost 600000 Iraqis who have died since his war started. A couple of sentences should cover it.
Comment by rk — April 17, 2007 @ 1:59 pm
Brown people don't count so Bush doesn't count brown people.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:39 pmWe have already had this conversation, but since you seem to have a short term memory problem, I will return to the same subject to remind you.
1
One is too many. The first soldier killed in Iraq was one too many. We should have never gone into Iraq. I was against it since Bush started pounding his chest. He had his sites set on attacking Iraq before he became president. It has nothing to do with the "war on terror" or 9/11. Bush went into Iraq to make his friends money. No other reason.
Now, are you gonna remember this time?
April 17th, 2007 at 2:40 pmIt is disingenuous to act all morally highfalutin in regard to this tragic event of unjustifiable violence that caused the death of 30 people while ignoring, or dismissing as "collateral", the murder of 600,000 plus innocent Iraqis and the deaths of 3,300 young people that were sent to Iraq (by us) to become murderers.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:40 pmJoe and thos agreeing with him:
I would agree, except do you remember Bush's statement yesterday, where he said "many" American's are praying for these families? He couldn't even make a respectful gesture without qualifying it with the same type of exclusions that he does with everything else he does. So f#ck him.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:40 pmThat was a nice speech by the Pres. and a wonderful speech by the Governor of Virginia.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:41 pmWhile he is at it maybe Bush can pay tribute to the almost 100 Iraqis who everyday in Iraq or the almost 600000 Iraqis who have died since his war started. A couple of sentences should cover it.
Comment by rk — April 17, 2007 @ 1:59 pm
Brown people don’t count so Bush doesn’t count brown people.
Comment by Shane — April 17, 2007 @ 2:39 pm
Your statement shows the lack of class in your life. Why would you pull the Race card? Why not call Jesse and Al about this issue?
April 17th, 2007 at 2:41 pmIs YOUR POTUS going to visit? Yeah thats what i thought.
Comment by Your Conscience — April 17, 2007 @ 2:13 pm
But those are "brown people" and Bushies can't clutter up his mind with those kind of deaths or "white poor people" like soldiers and Katrina victims.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:43 pmIt's too hard.
Dana Perino speaks for the president. She doesn't just say whatever she wants. Just like my job as a PR person for a technology company. I am told what to say. I am not supposed to just get on the phone and say whatever comes to mind. That isn't how it works. Perino is the mouthpiece of the Bush administration.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:43 pmExactly the right attitude. This thread is about a memorial service, yet many of the posts (with the exception of Joe-bashing) have been about Bush/Iraq/Katrina.
My thoughts and prayers are with the VT community.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:44 pmYour statement shows the lack of class in your life. Why would you pull the Race card? Why not call Jesse and Al about this issue? Comment by Daryll — April 17, 2007 @ 2:41 pm
The term Uncle Tom exists for people like you. Then again, you're such a racist homophobic pig, no one here actually believes you're black or straight.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:44 pmI thought what Perino said was highly inappropriate and I think just about every comment on this site has also been highly inappropriate.
Comment by joe — April 17, 2007 @ 2:18 pm
Well joe, if it offends your sensibilities, you could always leave. Last I check blogs can't force themselves onto your computer.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:44 pmcareful, daryll, your pulpit is starting to teeter...........
April 17th, 2007 at 2:44 pmI will never understand the need trolls have for commenting on sites where they don't belong. No one wants them here, no one agrees with them. They are here simply to piss on us.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:46 pmBut what they don't realize is that we all get to see their little shriveled dicks when they try and they always miss their mark by miles. They must die a little each time. They'll never admit it, but they really do sense that the end is near and it'll be over for them in 2008.
Poor little pricks.
Exactly the right attitude. This thread is about a memorial service, yet many of the posts (with the exception of Joe-bashing) have been about Bush/Iraq/Katrina.
My thoughts and prayers are with the VT community.
Comment by Dale — April 17, 2007 @ 2:44 pm
You lecturing others on class, and attitude - that's rich.
It is true we should feel for those that have lost, but this is the appropriate time to open a dialog - one fringe lunatics like you don't want to have. A dialog on why this is getting so much attention, when many more people that are minorities die all of the the time in this country.
Put away the patronizing and lecturing son, you aren't smart, or moral enough to do either.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:46 pmDaryll sez:
Fine. You pray for me. I'll think for both of us.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:47 pmTell me you friggin a______s, what could he do that right?
Comment by Happy Guy — April 17, 2007 @ 2:18 pm
He could admit that he doesn't have a clue what he's doing. He could blame Dick Cheney for getting him into all this trouble. Issue an executive order for Cheney and Rove to be locked up and quit.
That works for us.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:47 pmI remember the way Bill Clinton was skewered by the right for going to the memorials of the Oklahoma City bombing victims. The ugliness and disdain for his genuine concern was mocked, as if he was a cartoon. All I could think was how completely lost in their delusional hatred of the Clintons these people had become who could say such terrible things about a completely decent act by the President in a time of national tragedy.
Now I understand where they were coming from.
But I also know even more how wrong they were to use that tragedy as an excuse to be less than human in the name of politics.
Let today be about these fine people who were struck down while fulfilling the highest human principles of gaining knowledge, broadening horizons, and searching for the interconnectedness we all have.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:48 pmUh, I'd bet if you asked the TP admins, they *like* having others on here, people like myself, Jake, Patrick1, etc. Face it, having us on this site helps generate traffic.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:48 pmIs YOUR POTUS going to visit? Yeah thats what i thought.
Comment by Your Conscience — April 17, 2007 @ 2:13 pm
But those are “brown people†and Bushies can’t clutter up his mind with those kind of deaths or “white poor people†like soldiers and Katrina victims.
It’s too hard.
Comment by Shane — April 17, 2007 @ 2:43 pm
How could the President visit N.O. when it was completely flooded. It was not safe for him to visit the area. Also, you had a number of vigilantes near the SuperDome. Now would a normal person visit the area in that type of condition? NO!!!!
April 17th, 2007 at 2:49 pmI would ask the surprised, deskchair bound Rambos to jump up from their desks, crouch into combat mode, charge an armed opponent over desks, chairs and other students, and disarm an obviously distraught, fit youth in less time than it takes him to put a 9mm into the space between their ears.
Mr. Cho apparently went from room to room, surprising occupants and himself, and firing effiiciently with two semi-automatic pistols. A single round from a 9mm can do a lot of damage. Those who think no one could be surprised and dispatched with a "lowly" .22 calibre should ask Bobby Kennedy. Ian Fleming, experienced in such things before he took to lounging on the beach in Jamaica, thought so highly of small calibre weapons, he gave a .25 to Mr. Bond.
The racist jokes about South Asians are undoubtedly part of Mr. Cho's troubled past, and will do little to help avoid a recurrence of such bloody acts of desperate suicide-murder. All they'll do is increase donations from the Faithful to the ever willing NRA.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:50 pmMy prayers go out to the victims and their families. There's a time and place to throw the insults and attack the other side. There will be other threads for that.
Put down your guard for a moment a reflect on the tragedy.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:51 pmI have no problem with the Thief in Charge visiting a memorial for the victims!
I do have a problem with the first response from the White House indicating the continued right to bear arms, thus politicizing the situation.
Again, I dare the President to attend a funeral, and utter those exact words that his press secretary said.
(hey st.daryll of 2 seconds land, how's it hanging? This ain't a homo erotic thread. Ya know that, dontcha???)
April 17th, 2007 at 2:52 pmI will continue to pray for your party. There must be change!!!
Comment by Daryll — April 17, 2007 @ 2:22 pm
Maybe you should pray for yourself and the evil doers in your own party.
Liberals believe in DOING the right thing not praying for the right thing to happen.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:53 pm#50,
I remember.
I remember that I've been having this conversation for 4 years. I remember hearing that the 2004 elections would change everything. Then I remember hearing that the 2006 elections would change everything. Then I remember the jubilation of Nov 2006 and the promise of a great January. Then I remember that today is April 17th, 2007 and nothing has changed.
I also remember Vietnam, and our claim of "never again".
I remember it all, though I really don't want to.
It all started at number 1, and all that I'm asking is what number is the magical one that causes us to take this issue seriously and actually have the courage to do something? I think that it's a legitimate question.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:53 pmWhile this is definitely a PERSONAL tragedy, I'm sorry to say that this is definitely not a NATIONAL tragedy. But it's still proper that the POTUS shows up, but if he utters the word "terrorist" he should just ooze back to the WH.
> There are some things bigger than politics.
Nothing is bigger than politics. Politics is the 5000 pound gorilla. Even climate change isn't bigger. So how's this bigger? Pray and mourn if you must, but just reflect why you don't care about any of the other gun victims that occur every single day. At home and abroad.
> I will continue to pray until the coming of Jesus Christ.
He's been here once and won't come back soon. Get over it, you are on your own. Which is not necessarily bad.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:53 pmI'm here because I'm a regular reader of this blog and I agree with its political positions. I find it highly entertaining and informative to read on a daily basis... or more like a 20x daily basis. :)
I don't agree with its venom-spewing readers, though. Talk about extremists.
And that person complaining that Bush said "Many" were praying for them --- that was the right thing to say. I'm not praying for them. I'm an atheist. I hate it when people make blanket comments assuming everyone prays and believes in God.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:54 pmHow could the President visit N.O. when it was completely flooded. Comment by Daryll — April 17, 2007 @ 2:49 pm
B*llsh*t.
It was not safe for him to visit the area. Comment by Daryll — April 17, 2007 @ 2:49 pm
B*llsh*t.
Also, you had a number of vigilantes near the SuperDome. Comment by Daryll — April 17, 2007 @ 2:49 pm
B*llsh*t.
Now would a normal person visit the area in that type of condition? NO!!!! Comment by Daryll — April 17, 2007 @ 2:49 pm
How would you, you aren't normal.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:54 pmRight-wing pundit Debbie Schlussel speculated that Cho Seung-Hui, “who had been identified at that point only as a man of Asian descent, might be a ‘Paki’ Muslim and part of ‘a coordinated terrorist attack.’â€
I'm surprised none of you so far have made mention of this little fact. This scares the bejeebers out of me. How stupid can you right wingers be? Jeez.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:56 pmDale -
You think too highly of yourself. Really. You're not needed. Sorry to break the news to you big guy.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:56 pmThe MSM is referring to the sad, deplorable events of yesterday as the largest single mass killing in U.S. history…39 were killed by the NY state police at Attica
Comment by Central Scrutinizer — April 17, 2007 @ 2:23 pm
Two words, "brown people."
Here 3 more, "poor white people."
They don't count, not at Attica, not in Katrina and not in Iraq.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:56 pmThey’re not ignorant, they’re just confused. I truly believe Satan is using them right now, but I will continue to rebuke him.
Comment by Daryll — April 17, 2007 @ 2:24 pm
LOOK IN THE MIRROR DARYLL! WHAT ARE THOSE HORNS COMING FROM YOUR HEAD?
April 17th, 2007 at 2:57 pm#69- Good point. I completley agree with you. This is not the day for Buisness as usual. I think, for this day there needs to be a time for quiet and reflection on the events in Blacksburg. There will be other threads and days for the usual stuff. Not Today.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:58 pmIf Mr. Bush were sincere, he would express his sympathy from a discreet distance. The VT community does not need the President and several hundred Secret Service and Army personnel descending onto a small town in western Virginia, any more than it needs several hundred reporters asking distraught survivors "how they feel". For the next few weeks, it will be tough enough to cross campus or close a dorm room door.
Mr. Bush might then reflect, and decide to attend his first military funeral for someone killed in Iraq, following the orders of superiors and his or her commander-in-chief.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:59 pmAh, your usual witty, well-informed rebuttal.
April 17th, 2007 at 3:01 pm> I will continue to pray until the coming of Jesus Christ.
He’s been here once and won’t come back soon. Get over it, you are on your own. Which is not necessarily bad.
Comment by El Tonno — April 17, 2007 @ 2:53 pm
People were in doubt of his return after the crucifixion, but he rose again. He was no longer at the tomb, glory be to God. So be careful, doubter.
April 17th, 2007 at 3:02 pmJust curious.
Comment by Fed the Fcuk Up! — April 17, 2007 @ 2:30 pm
Just about everybody here, outside of trolls, is against the war. This is the 3rd thread today where I have seen you berate us all.
My guess is some of your outrage, which is justified, would do wonders posted on a right wing blog.
But we're on your side and we agree with your outrage. And we all use the things we learn here to do things outside of posting here.
April 17th, 2007 at 3:03 pm#72
I think the problem is that we've become so desensitized to violence and death, that the numbers don't mean much any more. Here in Colordao, after Columbine, there was total shock, marches protesting the NRA having a convention in Denver during the same week it happened, and pledges to do something - imagine 13 high school kids being gunned down. Nothing has changed - not a damn thing. Now yesterday, we have 32 - and it won't change anything either because we are getting more and more used to it. It is really disgusting.
April 17th, 2007 at 3:03 pmI would agree, except do you remember Bush’s statement yesterday, where he said “many†American’s are praying for these families? He couldn’t even make a respectful gesture without qualifying it with the same type of exclusions that he does with everything else he does. So f#ck him.
Comment by muzz — April 17, 2007 @ 2:40 pm
Remember, many also are not praying for the families. Atheists don't pray as far as I know. If he were to say "All Americans are praying for the families" he would have been criticized for that as well.
April 17th, 2007 at 3:03 pmSpudgie: sometimes a reminder of just what these troll are posting to is in order….
“here I come to save the day!â€
Comment by whiteyfresh — April 17, 2007 @ 2:37 pm
That's why you're our hero whiteyfresh!
April 17th, 2007 at 3:04 pmYeah, nice try. Everybody else that wanted to get there could and did. Those were normal people. Bush gave his Jackson Square speech when it was still flooded. Next excuse.
April 17th, 2007 at 3:05 pmPerino made an unnecessary comment at the press briefing, and I am angry about that - just as I am angry about what all of you are doing.
Comment by joe — April 17, 2007 @ 2:31 pm
Perino doesn't say one thing that isn't on the piece of paper handed to her. Oh yeah, as deputy press secretary the administration tells her to "just go for it." Get a clue.
April 17th, 2007 at 3:06 pm32 dead American children GOOD guess what the Iraqis feel like then
April 17th, 2007 at 3:07 pm#74 - you missed the point.
Bush uses terms like "some" and "many" to EXCLUDE anybody that doesn't agree with him. It has nothing to do with believing in God - it's the same old divisive crap that we've been living with for many years now.
April 17th, 2007 at 3:07 pmTrolls: sometimes a bit much, but mostly really entertaining.
Think Progress is a bit thick with trolls, but they do help us fine tune our skills in dealing with the inane stuff that personality disorders and spin doctors spew out there in meatspace. Keeps us from being surprised when some wingnut at work or in the family sez something stupid: we have already heard it.
The collective wingnuttery showing it's hand in card game of life! You can play troll bingo here: Clenis did it! Night of the Zombie Jebus will get you! Respect the preznit!
April 17th, 2007 at 3:09 pmYour statement shows the lack of class in your life. Why would you pull the Race card? Why not call Jesse and Al about this issue?
Comment by Daryll — April 17, 2007 @ 2:41 pm
Well then explain why Bush doesn't worry about these people.
Oh I know, we're attacking them in Iraq so they don't attack us here.
Well how'd that work for us yesterday.
Hey Uncle Tom, or Mr. Stepford, whichever you prefer, why don't your care that your President doesn't care when brown or poor people die?
You want to wait around for the rapture, fine, but most of us would rather make our PLACE ON EARTH better.
April 17th, 2007 at 3:12 pmThe National Review’s John Derbyshire asks, “[W]hy didn’t anyone rush the guy? It’s not like this was Rambo, hosing the place down with automatic weapons. He had two handguns for goodness’ sake–one of them reportedly a .22.â€
This from the party whose leaders dodged the draft, and whose President not only dodged the draft but failed to fulfill his National Guard obligations. Yeah, you yellow-stained-paints Republicans can go back to hiding under the bed.
April 17th, 2007 at 3:12 pmJohn Derbyshire always has some tough-guy talk for situations where he would so obviously just wet his pants if he were anywhere near such a situation. What a stupid little man he is.
April 17th, 2007 at 3:12 pmMy thoughts and prayers are with the VT community.
Comment by Dale — April 17, 2007 @ 2:44 pm
You right wing nuts bash progressives, THAT'S US, every day.
If this thread or site offends you then get the f**k out of here.
April 17th, 2007 at 3:14 pmThen I could turn around and blame Iraq on you, because I was too young during Vietnam, but you guys said never again and here we are again. But, I know that saying that would be the same thing as you blaming us for Iraq continuing. Stop attacking those on your side.
April 17th, 2007 at 3:14 pmPoor little pricks.
Comment by Raging Gurrl — April 17, 2007 @ 2:46 pm
It's kind of a chicken or the egg case isn't it.
Do they come here because of their "poor little pricks" or do they have "poor little pricks" because they some here. Six of one ...
April 17th, 2007 at 3:16 pm> People were in doubt of his return after the crucifixion, but he rose
> again. He was no longer at the tomb, glory be to God. So be careful,
> doubter.
I _am_ careful, but I'm beyond doubting.
Gearing up for "Jesus II: The Return"?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqMnSzJY2tg
April 17th, 2007 at 3:16 pmI see a pattern that started well before Katrina and holds true today: To Republicans, prayer for these communities after the fact is much easier than trying to provide communities with the aid and education resources they require.
April 17th, 2007 at 3:16 pmFace it, having us on this site helps generate traffic.
Comment by Dale
And it shows the world the moronic and dangerous viewpoints of the 28%ers that still support the Fascist-in-Chimp, like you.
Your moronic views are actually turning people against you in droves, keep it up
April 17th, 2007 at 3:18 pm85:
Sure things have changed, but not what needs to change. We installed metal detectors, hired more security. But it doesn't get to the root of the problem.
American Families are broken, very few have a stay at home mom/dad, very few parents even know how to take care of children. America has turned into the YOYO soceity, "You're on you're own"... Too much divorce, too much baby sitting with TV & video games. Christ you need a second job if you want to take a family of four to a ball game. Parents often feel they have no where to turn. Many kids simply left at home all night while single parents work 2 jobs to make ends meet. Just a quick glance at all the trash on TV not intended for children, but we know they watch it.
April 17th, 2007 at 3:18 pmComment by elemgee — April 17, 2007 @ 2:48 pm
Sorry, but the right wing developed the game and made the rules. Now they can live with the game they started.
Anybody offended here needs to go to a right wing blog.
April 17th, 2007 at 3:19 pm#84,
It is not my intention to “berateâ€, but rather to provoke thought and maybe even action.
I understand that most here are against the war (I was banned from Red State in less than 10 minutes, by the way). I also understand that people here may be doing “somethingâ€. My question is, What?
And then my question would be: How is it working?
And then that leads me to the question that I’ve been asking that you seem to take issue with: Since what is “happening†isn’t working, at what point do we acknowledge that and then take a more earnest approach?
Uncomfortable questions all, but does that matter? It seems that we should be addressing these questions and not “How many lies has McCain told?†or “How many corrupt politicians are there?â€.
Don’t you think?
April 17th, 2007 at 3:19 pmUh, I’d bet if you asked the TP admins, they *like* having others on here, people like myself, Jake, Patrick1, etc. Face it, having us on this site helps generate traffic.
Comment by Dale — April 17, 2007 @ 2:48 pm
Having you brain dead neocon Nazis is good target practice. Just wish you'd stop all your whining today.
April 17th, 2007 at 3:20 pmSo, because his body wasn't in the hole, it is a miracle? So, if I drug your rotting corpse out of your grave, then told people to go look, would that be a miracle? Or is it because nobody could move the rock? If nobody could move the rock, how did they find out his body was gone? Or is it that only one group of people could move the rock? What is the significance of the body not being in a hole?
"Hey look, the body we put in this hole isn't in the hole any more. It's a miracle!"
April 17th, 2007 at 3:22 pmNow would a normal person visit the area in that type of condition? NO!!!!
Comment by Daryll — April 17, 2007 @ 2:49 pm
And he still hasn't gotten around to sending funding he promised either. What's the excuse for that nutwad?
April 17th, 2007 at 3:22 pmDid anyone of you read the excerpt of Cho's creative writing posted in linked blog? He was a very disturbed individual.
I truly believe he acted alone in this whole thing. I'm not buying the "conspiracy" theory that some of you have been posting.
The liberals didn't make this a political issue of this tragedy, the neo-cons did. They were the first ones to use this issue for NRA propaganda.
April 17th, 2007 at 3:22 pmThe comments here show the true underbelly of the so-called tolerant left. Blaming George Bush, insulting conservatives, telling people who disagree to get the f**k out. This is what passes for high political discourse in the opium dens and parents' basements of the over privileged children who let musicians and movie stars do their thinking for them. It matters not that 30+ people were slaughtered. To the progressives, the iron is hot to strike Bush again...sympathy and courtesy be damned. Go back to smoking dope, living off mommy and blaming everything from 9/11 to dandruff on the object of your blind, irrational hatred. Oh, and keep telling yourselves that you are the enlightened ones.
You are all pathetic. God bless those affected by this tragedy.
April 17th, 2007 at 3:27 pmThat is a much better way of putting it. You didn't attack anybody and made your point very clear. That is all we are asking. We don't mind the passion and in fact welcome it. You are asking very good questions. That should be addressed.
Is it partially the Democrats fault? Hell yes. They let the mess go on long enough. Yes, their hands were tied, but did any of them say anything? A few have been outspoken, like Russ Fiengold and John Murtha. Were they backed up by the rest of the Democrats? No, they weren't. The Democratic party allowed their own people to get attacked and called traitors and cowards.
The first time anybody called somebody a traitor or coward, the entire Democratic party should have stood up and called foul, but they didn't, so I do partially blame them for the mess we are in.
April 17th, 2007 at 3:29 pmIm a democrat, im a liberal, and im a graduate student at Virginia Tech, and I'll admit the President touched my heart.
April 17th, 2007 at 3:30 pmVasco,
"Go fu*k yourself"
April 17th, 2007 at 3:31 pm#96,
Yes, I do blame myself. My voice has not been loud enough. My message has not been clear enough. My efforts have not yielded results.
I also blame myself because I do not have the political gene that allows me to separate myself from the actions of my country and its military simply because the president and its administration belong to a political party for which I am not a member. That's a convenient cop-out in my eyes, but I may be somewhat unique in that analysis.
So yes, I am speaking to the anti-war crowd because theoretically we share the same beliefs. Anyone who claims that the anti-war efforts to date have produced results is not keeping track of the numbers like you and I. So the question of "At what point do we change our strategies to include some form of action?" is not only pertinent, but has surpassed "urgent".
At least in my eyes.
April 17th, 2007 at 3:31 pm#108. You are a moron. No one here cares about your ignorant opinion.
These sorts of communities only get attention from Conservatives when a tragedy strikes. In six weeks, you'll all be back in your gated communities watching American Idol while the liberals reach out to help communities like this one, as we've always done.
Keep telling yourselves that you hold the moral high ground, when so many of your policies fly in the face of the teachings of Jesus. Just keep looking for more tax cuts and praying on Sundays.
April 17th, 2007 at 3:32 pmquestions all, but does that matter? It seems that we should be addressing these questions and not “How many lies has McCain told?†or “How many corrupt politicians are there?â€.
Don’t you think?
Comment by Fed the Fcuk Up! — April 17, 2007 @ 3:19 pm
Then maybe you should propose a course of action that we're all missing.
April 17th, 2007 at 3:33 pmsend the same commiserations every time thirty people are killed in Iraq.
April 17th, 2007 at 3:35 pmVasco goes ballistic:
> It matters not that 30+ people were slaughtered.
Sadly, it matters not.
> Go back to smoking dope, living off mommy and blaming
> everything from 9/11 to dandruff on the object of your blind,
> irrational hatred. Oh, and keep telling yourselves that you
> are the enlightened ones.
You are mistaken. Your are talking about "the others".
> You are all pathetic. God bless those affected by this tragedy.
Very pious. Limbic system's guilt-avoidance mechanisms kicking in?
April 17th, 2007 at 3:37 pmPsychologists will no doubt take to the airwaves tonight pleading with parents and teachers to look for the warning signs of the next Cho Seung-Hui in their own family and friends.
The language of violence, bestiality and pedophilia in the piece is really disturbing:
"At age ten the madam put the child in a cage with a bear trained to couple with young girls so the girls would be frigid and not fall in love with their patrons. They fed her through the bars and aroused the bear with a stick when it seemed to lose interest...He ased if they should f**k the deer."
Oh no, wait. That's not the Virginia Tech student, that's the work of Scooter Libby.
April 17th, 2007 at 3:37 pmIm a democrat, im a liberal, and im a graduate student at Virginia Tech, and I’ll admit the President touched my heart.
Comment by Breaux
How are you holding up? Were you anywhere near the chaos? Would you feel comfortable enough letting us hear about the memorial service since we couldn't be there?
Our thoughts are with you and all the students at VT.
April 17th, 2007 at 3:40 pmHopefully any you may know who're still at VT are safe.
April 17th, 2007 at 3:41 pm.
"This is what passes for high political discourse in the opium dens and parents’ basements of the over privileged children who let musicians and movie stars do their thinking for them."
You are all pathetic. God bless those affected by this tragedy
Comment by Vasco — April 17, 2007 @ 3:27 pm
You think one liberal speaks for all liberals. Or do you think every liberal in America is on this thread today.
You're so high minded that because Rush Limbaugh says we're all drug heads you believe him and come to a progressive site and insult us all.
Why aren't you neocons on a right wing site licking your wounds? Come back on Thursday when Gonzo is testifying and see if you're any happier then.
April 17th, 2007 at 3:42 pm#113,
I have tried, but either get ridiculed or just waved off as irrelevant. I suggested a general strike. I suggested a march upon DC that involved camping there until this thing ends. I suggested not paying taxes. All non-violent. All laughed off even though each and every one would work.
So I'm openly soliciting ideas, thoughts, and suggestions. However, I do request that the standard "call your congressman" or "put a bumper sticker on your car" be refrained from being spewed. They are not working, that it undeniable.
April 17th, 2007 at 3:43 pmFor the whining trolls who are complaining about the "politization" of the tragedy by ThinkProgress, you may want to check the newest thread about Nathaniel Blake, where he blames "our culture" for the lack of "self-sacrifice" in the people who got shot.
I will also point you to the "Paki Muslim" comment by Debbie Schlussel; yes, she was trying to blame Muslims for this horrible tragedy, facts be damned.
April 17th, 2007 at 3:45 pmShane:
The President did not presume to tell students to call him for help. He was quoting one recent graduate who wrote this: "I don't know most of you guys, but we're all Hokies, which means we're family. To all of you who are okay, I'm happy for that. For those of you who are in pain or have lost someone close to you, I'm sure you can call on anyone of us and have help any time you need it."
April 17th, 2007 at 3:49 pmHowever, I do request that the standard “call your congressman†or “put a bumper sticker on your car†be refrained from being spewed. They are not working, that it undeniable.
Comment by Fed the Fcuk Up! — April 17, 2007 @ 3:43 pm
But I think these things do work while maybe not as quickly as we'd all like. Also donating and working for candidates you believe in helps.
And there are peace rallies that need attending, maybe you should organize one of those.
April 17th, 2007 at 3:54 pmFed the Fcuk Up!,
Her eis the problem:
My job, thanks to the republicans is not protected by a union. If I don't go to work, I lose my job. I spent way to long in college to just lose a job, because I didn't come. While I am outraged over the war, I will not put my own family in jeopardy to stop it. If it gets to marshal law or a civil war, I will take up arms, as my job won't be around anymore. Does that make me selfish? Nothing is more important than my family. Sorry.
Once more, read the above, because this has the same exact problem.
The problem with this one is that Bush will go away sooner or later, but the IRS will not. Do I think Americans should be forced to pay a voluntary income tax. Absolutely not, but it is against the law to not voluntarily pay an income tax. I don't need to be audited from now unti lI am dead.
Yes, and great ideas, if I was retired. But, I have been in my career for 7 years and it cost me a lot of money that I am still paying on to get where I am. Once again, am I selfish? Yeah, until you consider that I have real family values. My family comes before anything else.
April 17th, 2007 at 3:54 pmWhat Bushco going to do there? Attempt to convince us how safe we are? Get a life - Shrubbie!
April 17th, 2007 at 3:55 pmComment by Elizabeth — April 17, 2007 @ 3:49 pm
I only heard the end of the speech but assumed as the President he'd have a speech of his own prepared. Silly me.
April 17th, 2007 at 3:57 pmThe NRA owns Bush and his entire white house. Maybe those are the criminals we need to hold responsible for this outrageous laxity in gun control?? Then how about homeland security for spying on innocent americans and/or political foes rather than observing foreign nationals purchasing weapons?? Either way - it's vomit on BushCo once again.
Everything that is going wrong in this country can be traced directly back to a president whose party enabled him to steal the presidency.
You know what they say regarding "ill gotten gains", don't you? It all turns to putrification and disaster - and we're beginning to just view the tip of this white house garbage heap.
April 17th, 2007 at 3:58 pmComment by Spudge_Boy — April 17, 2007 @ 3:54 pm
While the neocons think we're all a bunch of opium smokers living in our mother's basements, (vasco #109) most of us are adults with careers and jobs and families to take care of.
Frankly, most of us don't trust this administration to even extend our civil liberties to us and that puts us in a position of wanting to take less risks than we did during previous administrations.
April 17th, 2007 at 4:01 pm#125 & #126,
Okay, so one of you (Shane) says that contacting your congressman, going to non-existent rallies, and donating money to the same politicians who got us into and keep us into this mess will eventually work, just have to give it time. McCain much? How many Friedman’s should I wait, by the way.
Then the other (Spudge_Boy) says that he’s all in as long as it does not involve any sacrifice, or even the risk of sacrifice. And a little thought for you “values†man, selling of your children’s souls and future just so you can feed them some Kentucky Fried Chicken is a short-sighted “value†at best.
And the murders continue while Spudge gets his extra crispy.
April 17th, 2007 at 4:13 pmHey a$$hole. Why don't you fu*king do something. Stop typing on this fu*king blog and doi something b!tch. You come on here and act all high and mighty, but you have zero ideas, so you take it out on others. Go fu*k yourself. You wanna do something, do it.
You have been here before under a different name spewing the same garbage and you still have no ideas. You get off your lazy a$$ and do something, rather than being holier than thou and telling other people do come up with ideas. Yours do not work. If they did work, we wouldn't be in the situation we are in now, because if you guys really did mean never again, you would have made sure it didn't happen again, but it did and it is your fault, so now you want the younger generation to clean up the mess that you people allowed to happen again. A$$hole.
You can take your extra crispy and shove it up your a$$.
April 17th, 2007 at 4:40 pmWhy would the English teacher want to have him see counseling for writing about "murder" and "pedophelia" in a "creative" writing class? Look at some of the most famous movies, they include these dark sides of humans and we have eduactionally shown much worse. just think for one quick second and you cant deny it. I know this maybe irrelevant but maybe some of the foudation of building his hate for this horrid crime.
April 17th, 2007 at 4:55 pm#132,
"Daddy, why didn't anyone do anything to stop the Iraq massacre even though they knew it was wrong."
"Well, honey, we did do things. We called our politicians. We posted on blogs..."
"Whatsa blog?"
"Uh, kind of like FOX News' HappyPlace (formerly known as "MySpace"), just without peoples videos or names and stuff."
"Sounds boring."
"Well kinda. Anyway, no matter how much we blogged, nothing seemed to have any effect. But we tried."
"Why didn't you try anything else?"
"Well, daddy had to work to make sure and have the money to buy food and pay for the house and the bills and couldn't risk losing his job because he was so important."
"Wow, thanks Daddy. By the way, what's a house?"
"You know, it's those buildings that our superiors live in."
"Oooh, you mean the ones that they get to stay in all the time and even sleep in them all by themselves?"
"Uh, yeah."
"Why don't we have a house?"
"Well, our job requires that we live in this tent here at the Productivity Village."
"Will we ever have a house?"
"Honey, let's not discuss such silliness. Our superiors, who are smarter than us and are always protecting us, will hear you and they don't like us talking about such things."
"Okay, thanks for taking care of me Daddy."
"Sure thing honey. Now, finished getting dressed because we have to get to work at the Emperor's stalls."
"Alright. Are they going to feed us today?"
"No honey, today is Tuesday. It's 'Fridays' that are food days."
"Darn. Wish I had some extra crispy chicken."
"Don't we all, dear, don't we all."
April 17th, 2007 at 5:15 pmI see FTFU is back on his high horse while he actually does absolutely nothing.
April 17th, 2007 at 5:21 pm#135,
Gosh, you got it all wrong. After shane told me what I should be doing and Spudge_Boy used a bunch of profanity to tell me that actually doing nothing was the moral thing to do, I decided to take their advice.
So, I'm practicing my creative writing skills and just going to blog away about, I don't know, whatever.
It will all be over soon, I guess, because the politicians are always great people and they always work to the greater good. It shouldn't be more than another, oh I don't know, 6 months, 6 years, but I can't see it lasting more than 6 decades.
Ooh, look! Shiny things...
April 17th, 2007 at 5:35 pmYour lame little story line ignores the fact that I have already stated that if it comes to what your little story is about, I will take up arms, whether that is with you or against you.
You are a holier than thou fu*k head your words are empty. You come on here and pretend that you are better than the other posters. You think you have great ideas, but you have nothing.
Keep living in your little dream world and let the younger generation take the reins, because your generation let this happen again. Your "never again" has happened again. Are you proud of your non-work?
Good job troll.
April 17th, 2007 at 5:43 pm#136 Oooo, more condescension. Thanks!!
April 17th, 2007 at 5:46 pm#137,
The reins are yours there cowboy, or I guess I should say "stall boy". Oddly appropriate in many ways.
And I am taking your advice. I'm not going to do a thing until, uh, until everything is Mad Maxish. All those people dying, hey it's not me pulling the trigger so what do I have to worry about.
I also like your idea of staying in my "dream world". Ah, that place where an iPod is less important, exponentially, than the life of someone that I do not know and will never meet.
Oh yeah, and you're absolutely right, none of my ideas would have worked because of the enormous logic flaw of actually having to do something. We know that they would never work because we never even tried. However, we're certain that what we are "doing" will work because it never has.
It's all ice cream and lolipops.
April 17th, 2007 at 5:55 pmFed up, when you say "do something," what exactly do you mean?
April 17th, 2007 at 6:19 pmGood you piece of sh!t. Sit around and do nothing. Good for you. We will keep pushing and you sit on your thumbs. We will accomplish something, while you do nothing. Sit in your own filth as you watch us take back the country.
We will also fight to make sure this really is "never again" unlike your failed attempt.
You can also shove your lollipops and ice cream up your ass. Troll.
Useless.
You want a revolution? That is what you are trying to push for. You have been on this site before under a different name and you had the same argument. "Nobody's doing enough." "Nobody's trying to stop the war." You want to take to the street with your gun and make the bad men in Washington do what you say? Go for it. Go get yourself killed before you can even say "Viva la revolutione." You want a revolution, get it started punk. Otherwise, STFU.
April 17th, 2007 at 6:21 pmI personally think that this Memorial taking place is entirely too soon. I live in Virginia and know a lot of people down in Blacksburg (who are all doing okay), but I was watching the news last night around 7-8 and some of the victim's parents hadn't even been told yet.
I just can't imagine being told about the death of your child and in the next sentence saying hey, why don't you come down here tomorrow for a meet and greet with the president, so he can show the cameras how much he cares. Sorry, I'm just not buying it. This is not a political thing, its a taste thing, and it leaves a bad one in my mouth. And maybe in a few days it wouldn't be such a big deal, but the next day, not giving anyone a chance to think about it or even breathe, just seems a bit fishy. I could be wrong. Is there a precident for holding such a high-profile service the very next day after a tragedy like this? It just doesn't seem genuine to me.
Fed,
You say that the things the anti-war activists have done haven't changed anything, but I would disagree. Yes, we are still in Iraq, but now even most Republicans have told the President that this "surge" is the last chance he has to show results and no one, not even McCain, has a "plan B", so this is it for them.
The public opinion of the war has changed dramatically in the last couple of years. This didn't just happen by itself. Something so obvious took too long for the general public to catch on, but it has happened. Even if it is only "cool" to be against the war, its better than it being "unpatriotic" so, so be it.
Your ideas aren't practical and when you assume the moral high ground because someone else, who shares your views, is looking out for their children, it is very telling of your age or at least naivety and is utterly offensive to your own parents and parents in general. Your heart and frustrations seem to bascially be in the right place though, but you certainly need to grow up.
What is wrong with writing our Senators and Congressmen and letting them know that they should end the war? The only way to end it is in their hands, why not let them know where we stand? How exactly is some camping trip to DC going to be any more effective? You know Cindy Sheehan was doing that down in Crawford already, right? Where were you?
April 17th, 2007 at 6:24 pm#140,
Good question. I came here seeking the same answer and even brought a few suggestions of my own (listed above somewhere). All the suggestions that I've received are "stay the course" items.
- Write your congressman : Which I have done, scores of times. And I called her (she is a she) dozens of times. And I've emailed her, thousands of times.
- Attend protests and rallies: Tried, but have discovered two things. 1) A single protester protesting is also known as "loitering". 2) Trying rally people to attend a protest on a weekend is harder than trying to pick up someone at a bar when you have a cold sore the size of Rhode Island on your lip. And weekdays? Fagetaboutit (saddest part, I live in that bastion of San Francisco Values, California)
- Blog: I've tried that but the blogs are laid out on these "partisan" lines that cannot be crossed. It's like preaching to a choir while playing a game of whack-a-troll.
Okay, now take off on your tirade telling me how I'm condescending, unrealistic, idealistic, or engage in a spewage of "colorful" metaphors to describe me or my family or both. Unfortunately, that is the M.O. here.
In the end, there is only one fact that is relevant, and that is that I'm alive and observing a mass murder/genocide, a frontal assault on our Constitution and values, and a pilfering of the treasury that would have previously been thought to be unfathomable.
This is not a dream world, it's a flippin' nightmare.
April 17th, 2007 at 6:44 pm#142,
J-man,
Some answers to your questions should be in the comment I just posted a few minutes ago. I do have a couple of serious questions for you: Were you alive during the Vietnam war? And, do you remember what key promise Mr. Nixon made to the nation when he was elected in 1968?
April 17th, 2007 at 6:49 pm#143 Instead of doing anything you just whine.
April 17th, 2007 at 6:50 pmFed up, I'm not going to slam you for being frustrated. Our form of representative democracy is messy and subject to subversion by large corporate power. Our Fourth Estate is essentially broken and unable to function the way our Founders envisioned it. Our representatives spend way too much time having to get money instead of governing. I get it. Sounds to me like you're doing as much as any citizen can do. Good for you. Keep it up.
April 17th, 2007 at 7:07 pm#146 Bluedog, he does nothing but deride others on this site for "doing nothing". He demands answers to his question, which is "what are YOU doing?" He rips people for working within the system. He tore into someone who is active that told him she what she was doing about it and saying it takes time by ripping into her about her "comfortable patience". Frankly, unless he has some suggestions he should bring them up instead of getting in people's faces about what they are doing.
April 17th, 2007 at 7:16 pmSo, then we find out that what ol' dumb sh!t has done to stop the war is the same thing we have been doing, only he doesn't do any of it the right way.
Project much d!ck head?
April 17th, 2007 at 7:24 pmJPark, I hear you, but I also understand that people are just angry and frustrated. I don't blame anyone for being angry. Things are really f*cked up. But, I hope people keep in mind that the last time our system was even close to as screwed up as things are today, we got the New Deal, which led to the strongest middle class in our nation's history. We can still turn this thing around.
April 17th, 2007 at 7:28 pm#146 - I don't believe the status quo is working nor do I believe that the "stay the course" option for the anti-war movement is going to produce results. I applaud your optimism, but do not share it.
#147 - I have brought suggestions, but they all require sacrifices and apparently, losing one's job is worse than death. Unless we are talking about the people being murdered by our actions, at which time losing ones job is worse than the deaths of 650,000 Iraqis and 3,300 Amercian service members (and counting). I believe that we need to try some new approaches. Unless someone, anyone, can show me tangible results from the "actions" that are taking place currently.
#148 - Turret's much?
April 17th, 2007 at 7:44 pmwhoa........I better go get more ammo before I step in here.....:)
April 17th, 2007 at 7:54 pmFed up, characterising "loyal opposition" as "stay the course" is just not accurate. In our system, if you don't like what they're doing, you vote for different people who are closer to your way of thinking. For example, funding the troops with a stipulation that they have to leave Iraq within a set time table is not "staying the course." It's changing to a different course. That course may not bring results which are fast enough to satisfy you, but that hardly qualifies as no change.
You've got our system, or you can go to a parliamentary system, but by far the quickest systems are the undemocratic ones. I don't think you want totalitarianism.
April 17th, 2007 at 7:55 pm#152,
Very reasoned and accurate, with one notable exception, war. We're not talking about a zoning issue or changes to the tax tables. Nor are we talking about the establishment of laws or policy. People are dying violent deaths right now as a direct result of our nations actions. It only took 5 months to get into this "war", yet we are 4 years down the road from the point where it became obvious to every being that the reasons for the invasion were thoroughly debunked. The only thing that has "changed" is that the congress is threatening to send legislation to the president that has timetables (word is that they are non-binding) for withdrawal some time in the next year.
This is a life and death issue. What is most bizzare is that since the only ones experiencing the deaths are foreigners and our own service members, people justify a "patient" approach as if we were talking about a law for having nutrition information on water bottles.
If we, as a nation, were experiencing a Virginia Tech incident on a daily basis, would we allow it to continue to happen for the next 4-5 years while we debated how best to stop it?
I appreciate your civility, but I believe that the situation is much more urgent than you give it credit for and warrants an immediate solution.
April 17th, 2007 at 8:19 pmWhile some of you, slam Fed the Fcuk Up I actually agree with him in almost all levels. For me it is always welcomed that someone voices some words that disrupt my rutinely line of thought and action. It is important for progressives to always criticize government and corporation doings, but MOST IMPORTANT our own doings.
As usual in any society with a strong burgueoisie (?), nobody will do nothing until we see our own children dying or getting killed. Example: Argentina 2001.
April 17th, 2007 at 9:07 pm#140 Of course there is tangible progress being made but you ignore it because it isn't happening fast enough for you. Only immediate gratification would please you, it seems.
April 17th, 2007 at 9:17 pm#154 I know, Juan, I know.
April 17th, 2007 at 9:17 pmI know, Juan, I know.
Comment by JPark
Do you mean it or you are being sarcastic?
April 17th, 2007 at 9:28 pm#157 I know what you think. I disagree. I really don't think a revolution doomed to fail is in the best interests of the progressive movement.
April 17th, 2007 at 9:33 pmbut by far the quickest systems are the undemocratic ones. I don’t think you want totalitarianism.
Comment by Bluedog49
I disagree. Democracy is the government of the people, right? How come you have a president whose approval ratings fall to 35% and still is a democracy? You changed Saddam´s regime in little time, from Shock and Awe to the seizing of Baghdad. Why it is not possible to change your own regime in the same time?
April 17th, 2007 at 9:35 pmI really don’t think a revolution doomed to fail is in the best interests of the progressive movement.
Comment by JPark
Ok, I also agree with that. But, then, what does progressive mean?
April 17th, 2007 at 9:36 pm#160 Hold on Juan, do you equate progressive with anarchic or leftist?
April 17th, 2007 at 9:44 pmdo you equate progressive with anarchic or leftist?
Comment by JPark
Do you think there is progress in being moderate? And, this is a phylosophical question of course, and the usual discussion of any resistance movement: do we continue on the intellectual, moderate line or do we take the arms and make a revolution?
I, of course, would be in favor of anarchism, all the way. But feel free to tell me what you want, it is the story of my life.
April 17th, 2007 at 9:50 pm#159 Well, changing the Saddam regime was against our laws so I would say it was done undemocratically.
April 17th, 2007 at 9:50 pm#162 Who is moderate? The fact is the American people would not countenance a revolution at this time. I am not going to martyr myself for a doomed cause. Selfish? Maybe.
By the way, nice way of equating me with the US government:
But feel free to tell me what you want, it is the story of my life.
April 17th, 2007 at 9:54 pmWe can still turn this thing around.
Comment by Bluedog49 #149
This is the country's greatest test since the Civil War...
...will the Rule of Law prevail?
...will JUSTICE be served?
...If Bushiva, Lil Dick and company are not brought to JUSTICE...
...America will NEVER recover...
April 17th, 2007 at 10:06 pmThe fact is the American people would not countenance a revolution at this time.
Comment by JPark
There is one thing you cant take out of people. Dignity. If US was invaded, I could bet you would give your life (I know I would) in order to fight for the right causes, or at least the ones I think are the right ones. Im sure US people is ready, but the circumstances seem mild to take that stand.
By the way, nice way of equating me with the US government:
Comment by JPark
Huh? I didnt understand.
April 17th, 2007 at 10:08 pmI wasnt trying to pick on you. I was just saying that everytime I say I gladly would be an anarchist Bakunin-type, people look at me as if I was crazy.
can i say again,
homeland security, gotta love it!
April 18th, 2007 at 12:24 am#159 Well, changing the Saddam regime was against our laws so I would say it was done undemocratically.
Okay Jpark, prove it. Name the laws violated.
And by the way, good luck.
Cheers
April 18th, 2007 at 12:46 amJuan C 159
Civics 101: The United States is a Constitutional Republic that is governed by rule of law.
And that is why a President with an approval rating of 35% is still in power.
Under the rules you can impeach and convict, have a revolution, or wait until the next election.
Those are your choices. Have at 'em.
April 18th, 2007 at 12:51 amI feel sorry for all the victims of this tragedy; and as far as what Bush said, he is a no good president; all the victims of Iraq every day; why don't you send our people home for a change and stop all the suffering that is going on. CAN YOU NOT SEE THAT YOU ARE NOT DOING ANY GOOD? I GUESS NOT!
April 18th, 2007 at 9:14 pmYou people make me sick. I can honestly say that I am not proud to be an american knowing that people like you live here. How can you makes this into something political? I dont care for bush as much as the next man but damn 32 people shot for no reason!! They didnt want to go to war.. they didnt sign up to go to iraq... they signed up for COLLEGE. Get off your high horse on the iraq shit, has nothing to do with this situation what so ever. These kids didnt sign up to go to war they were not armed and looking for a fight!! They were sitting in a damn classroom and were gun down for what?? Some screwed up kid who should have been locked away years ago. So stop you bullshit talk about bush and iraq that has nothing to do with this. SHOW SOME DAMN RESPECT FOR THE KIDS FAMILIES AND FRIENDS!!!!
April 19th, 2007 at 11:19 pmI'd like to say spiritual advisors only, but Bush's presence probably helped the students feel that the country was backing them. Remember, you are not the only ones in the world. Although I did not like bush saying "the scripture" in reference to the bible.
April 25th, 2007 at 2:38 am