Iraqis fear U.S. wall will turn them into ‘caged animals.’
Iraqis fear U.S. wall will turn them into ‘caged animals.’
The New York Times reports on reaction to the Bush administration’s “radical new strategy to quell the widening sectarian violence by building a 12-foot-high, three-mile-long wall separating a historic Sunni enclave from Shiite neighborhoods.”
The wall has already drawn intense criticism from residents of the neighborhood, who say that it will increase sectarian tensions and that it is part of a plan by the Shiite-led Iraqi government to box in the minority Sunnis.
A doctor in Adhamiya, Abu Hassan, said the wall would transform the residents into caged animals.
“It’s unbelievable that they treat us in such an inhumane manner,” he said in a telephone interview. “They’re trying to isolate us from other parts of Baghdad. The hatred will be much greater between the two sects.”
Topic Cloud
ArchivesBlog Roll
Yes Bush wants to cage them in, but they can still throw bombs over the wall.
April 21st, 2007 at 11:22 amThey – at least the insurgents – don’t need any help with that.
–
April 21st, 2007 at 11:22 ammatthews.frank@gmail.com
That should unite the two factions into one united group against us for sure. If that was the aim, why in Hell did we blow up the Golden mosque and use Blackwater operations to kill both sides to spark off the civil war in the first place?
April 21st, 2007 at 11:24 amWelcome to democracy! Now shut up and sit down.
April 21st, 2007 at 11:24 amFascitFrank, our troll du jour…
April 21st, 2007 at 11:25 amA wall?
April 21st, 2007 at 11:27 amWhatever happened to the ditch we were digging around Baghdad?
the irony of building a wall in baghdad is almost too much to bear… if anybody in the entire world doubted that the u.s. and israel are virtually one and the same, they will have to concede the point after this…
April 21st, 2007 at 11:28 amAnd, yes, I DO take it personally
Post 6 > ditch would not work unless they filled it with flaming oil, but Bush said not my oil so the idea was canceled.
April 21st, 2007 at 11:32 amC’mon folks we all know walls work so well, look at the biggest wall in the world around China, it worked so well against the Japanese.
April 21st, 2007 at 11:32 amHappy420 > Wall of China was built to keep out the Mongolians, so being inland it did not stop Japanese from coming ashore in boats. But you are right walls alone never work to solve problems. Bush just wants to make it more difficult to set off car bombs, but the wall will do nothing to stop insurgents who could dig tunnels under it or climb over it too.
April 21st, 2007 at 11:40 amI truly cannot believe this wall plan! Who the hell do we think we are to march into another country and put up a 3-mile long wall?!
April 21st, 2007 at 11:44 amReagan takes credit for bringing down one wall. Will bush take responsibility for this new one?
April 21st, 2007 at 11:45 amSounds like Gitmo East.
“radical new stategy”
April 21st, 2007 at 11:45 am?????
Huh, no one ever thought of this before?
sarc/off
Bush the great “divider” is at it again: building more walls…I would laugh if so many people weren’t dieing because of him, his administration and the media that supported/s his lies.
The wall is just one more simplistic view from Bush et al: the deceiver, the divider… the incompetent, the world destroyer.
April 21st, 2007 at 11:46 amLook at the division Bush has done to the US. The GOP and Christian groups are really directing things like the past. Black/White remember.
April 21st, 2007 at 11:46 amNow it’s pasted on to the countries the US invades. The Berlin Wall was knocked down as people learned and changed. Now the US is bringing back that past. Don’t worry Bush doesn’t know anything about it, until he reads about it in the paper. Bush is a figure head and only called when needed. Notice how Gonzales signed orders he knew nothing about. Karl Rove ran the DOJ meetings and directed the firings, so Gonzales was just used as a figure head too. Cheney is busy pulling out as much money as he can get now that he can’t give the Saudi’s the money he promised. Yes the Saudi King has started meeting with Iran as the US Republican party is no longer in control. Those rubber stamp days are gone and so are the White House allies. It was a good run by the Bush Administration. They did more damage in 6 years and stole more money now the taxpayer are broke. This week Americans asked for God’s help knowing full well we did this to ourselves as we allowed Bush to continue these crimes and destroy the morals of our country.
It seems they are right to fear….
April 21st, 2007 at 11:50 amfrom yesterday’s FAST thread :
“The U.S. military is constructing a 3-mile-long concrete wall in Baghdadâ€
Oh, to be a ladder salesman in Baghdad.
Comment by Punchy — April 20, 2007 @ 9:05 am
…
from what i’ve seen of the “bremmer walls”, that city has been
April 21st, 2007 at 11:51 amuglified beyond belief…
these poor people… paying for the bushCO mistakes…
…
Putting a wall up, essentially breaking Iraq into two or three countries, is doing what Biden suggested, and was hammered by republicans. flippityflop
April 21st, 2007 at 11:52 amWell, it takes a chimp.
-GSD
April 21st, 2007 at 11:54 amThree miles isn’t much of a drive, George. Oh, and good way to get them to build stronger roadside bombs so they can blow up your freakin’ wall.
April 21st, 2007 at 11:55 amGeorge, are you out of your mind? (rhetorical)
these poor people… paying for the bushCO mistakes…
…
Comment by katy — April 21, 2007 @ 11:51 am
Aren’t we all?
April 21st, 2007 at 11:57 amAren’t we all?
Comment by Shane
We’re lucky cuz we don’t get blown to bits — only bankrupted.
April 21st, 2007 at 11:58 amThe US is not building just one wall, the plan is to wall in the various neighborhoods of Baghdad so as to turn the city into a gigantic prison. People will need to show US issued photo ID’s in order to enter their neighborhoods. The US mini bases being built throughout the city will be used to control the prisoners. The US hopes that this will conrol the population enough to give the appearance of stability. It won’t work but it’s one hell of a sweet contract for Halliburton.
April 21st, 2007 at 11:58 amBush likes walls and electrified barb-wire fences, since he has those around his ranch in Texas. A 12 feet high wall can be climbed over using ladders, so the real purpose is a thick concrete reinforced blast wall. It is to inhibit car bombings and not to benefit the people located on both sides of it.
April 21st, 2007 at 11:59 amWalls are great cover for hiding behind, to shoot at what’s on the other side.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:04 pmRight now CNN Headline News is running every half-hour a piece where an insurgents den islooked over. Everything they use for bombs are common household items. I guess Bush was right about WMDs, they are batteries, cellphones, and duct tape.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:05 pmThis is just plain awful! We’ll have our own Gaza Strip! Noooooooooo!
April 21st, 2007 at 12:08 pmAren’t we all?
Comment by Shane — April 21, 2007 @ 11:57 am
oh yea… “for sure”…
i was trying to think of a way to add that but figured it was a given… and, i don’t see that we are suffering anything like the iraqi people are…
the only people here who can claim to “suffer” are those who lost loved ones, either by death or maiming, because of this … this… … .
April 21st, 2007 at 12:09 pmGreat.Now we’re going to need a passport and a security clearance to shop at Office Max.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:09 pmRaven > yep when nobody is looking the extremists on both sides of the wall can erect sniper platforms along it and use the cover of the concrete reinforced wall as protection. Even RPGs would bounce off or detonate without doing any damade. What will ultimately happen is that the houses near the wall on both sides will get riddled with bullits and grenades. It will look like the dividing line in Lebanon.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:11 pmI’d like to say something snarky, but the sad irony of a wall; the palpable sense of failure it communicates and its pathetic symbolism of the failures of this administration are too overwhelming. I’m depressed.
Seems like yesterday we were celebrating the destruction of the Berlin wall, now we are talking about walling off Mexico and Baghdad.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:11 pmSince when would we care what the Iraqi’s think. It’s our country now, we can do anything we want with it. The hell with the Iraqi people. All we want is their oil. The rest can just go to hell.
This administration is unbelievably short sited and stupid. The only way the problems in Iraq will be solved is if we leave and let them sort it out for themselves. And that’s what they will do. Once they don’t have US soldiers to hide behind, they will create some sort of a military. And for all the people who say it will be chaos once we leave I ask, exactly what is it now?
April 21st, 2007 at 12:11 pm#26, I guess if you push people far enough anything and everything can become a weapon.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:13 pmPretty much thinking, that with all of the curfews, bombings and other assorted violence, that they pretty much feel like caged animals at this point. I don’t think a wall will make that much of a difference.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:15 pmHow does Bush come up with all these insane ideas that we all end up paying for with thousands of lives and billions of dollars? Does he dream of moats and castle walls while Laura reads “Shakespeares” to him? Why not go high tech and build big domes over each neighborhood and make them impenetrable to bombs and missiles through resurrecting Ronald Reagan’s useless star wars technology? Problem solved and Halliburton can get the no bids contract.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:16 pmWe’re lucky cuz we don’t get blown to bits — only bankrupted.
Comment by Zooey — April 21, 2007 @ 11:58 am
So far. Of course the 9/11 victims and our soldiers have been blown to bits already. And I’m not sure the worst is over for us yet.
Bill Moyers has a special next week on PBS we should all watch.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:18 pmThis proves that the surge is werkin’
April 21st, 2007 at 12:19 pmBill Moyers has a special next week on PBS we should all watch.
Comment by Shane
Do you have more info? Time, subject, etc?
I love his work.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:19 pmWalls were constructed in Belfast between warring communities as well. The spin machine called them peace walls.
Did these walls achieve anything? Very difficult to say.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:21 pmWhere are the trolls?
April 21st, 2007 at 12:21 pmHe was on Bill Maher last night but I thought one time they said Wednesday and one time they said Friday. Sorry.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:23 pmComment by Not Canadian — April 21, 2007 @ 12:19 pm
I think it is about the lack of indignation of the American people with the government and the media’s lack of responsibility.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:25 pmI thought Iraq was a ’sovereign state’…and an indpenedent one,according to Bush…they running their own country…!!
April 21st, 2007 at 12:25 pmHow can US do all of this in a sovereign state?!
I don’t think a wall will make that much of a difference.
Comment by Krazny — April 21, 2007 @ 12:15 pm
well, i think the very phisical presense of it – what it represents, failure – will make a HUGE difference…
April 21st, 2007 at 12:25 pmthis IS depressing…
I’m from Berlin, I’ve been to the Wall museum.
I’ve seen Germans from East Berlin cram themselves into tiny VW Beatles to sneak past the wall.
This won’t accomplish anything except worsening the situation between sects.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:27 pm#40…we’re here but can’t think of anything stupid enough to post yet.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:27 pmLet’s look back in history…just how well did the Berlin Wall work??? I’m sure that is where Shrub got the idea…check the family history.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:28 pmI agree Katy, the wall isn’t such a good idea, I sincerely doubt such a structure would cut down on the amount of violence, merely redirect to a new area. I just can’t help but feeling, that aside from the physical presence, the average Iraqi has a pretty poor standard of living.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:32 pmBILL MOYERS JOURNAL
BUYING THE WAR
Wednesday April 25 at 9
(check local listings)
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/index.html
saw him an maher last night also…
say, that john o’sullivan was a pleasant guest, wasn’t he?
April 21st, 2007 at 12:34 pmyeesh…
.
Thanks Shane. I’ll be watching, TiVo too.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:34 pmThanks Katy.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:35 pm#39…Ukdave
[ Walls were constructed in Belfast between warring communities as well.The spin machine called them peace walls.]
Although I agree with you,there is a lot of difference between the two cases:
Belfast is part of UK, plus Irish and English people has a lot in common,from language to location to race.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:35 pmBut in this case US has nothing in common with Iraqis..and it is over 8000 miles far away.
Nothing says “I care” more than a twelve foot high reinforced concrete wall.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:36 pmRonald Reagan’s useless star wars technology?
Comment by Republicans are the Fear and Smear Party
It wasnt useless… right now America has a laser system that can shoot down several artillery shells at a time. I would imagine that hitting a missle is even easier as long as it is not too high in the atmosphere.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:40 pmsay, that john o’sullivan was a pleasant guest, wasn’t he?
yeesh…
.
Comment by katy — April 21, 2007 @ 12:34 pm
Oh he was a charmer. Thanks for the info on the show, now if my dementia doesn’t kick in I’ll remember to watch it.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:41 pmWhere are the trolls?
Comment by Shane
Um, church?
April 21st, 2007 at 12:41 pmNothing says “I care†more than a twelve foot high reinforced concrete wall.
Comment by legaleze — April 21, 2007 @ 12:36 pm
Thanks for that Hallmark moment. I’m all weepy.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:42 pmUm, church?
Comment by Zooey — April 21, 2007 @ 12:41 pm
That won’t help their vile souls.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:43 pmOf course, all democracies have walls separating their people.
Does anyone think these projects through before they begin them?
April 21st, 2007 at 12:43 pmThe Great Wall of China did work… though it took a few life times to build and required manned guard towers and forts all along it.
Hadrians Wall in England built by the Romans worked… though it took several years to build and required manned guard towers and forts all along it.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:43 pmI am 50 this year. This country spent most of my life trying to tear down the Berlin wall and now we are building one. Everything that was promising about America in my youth has disintegrated in the past 7 years. Future generations will look at this period with wonder not at our achievments but at how far we stuck our heads up our asses.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:43 pmKarl Rove has done a brilliant job making Iraq a policy that is a loser for Republicans AND Democrats. Unfortunately for Rove, his man Bush is in the White House as an unpopular Prsident who continues to escalate and support an unpopuar war. After Bush vetoes the spending bill, the next logical step for the Democrats is to cut all the funding and get our men out of Bush’s war of choice–one he is losing and losing badly.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:44 pmWalls never work.
Great Wall of China.
Maginot Line.
US-Mexico Border.
Walls never work.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:45 pm#54, Thanks I know I feel safer now. I’ve been dreading an artillery bombardment for years here in suburban Philly. And good thing we got the missile defense figured out now, fifteen years after the collapse of the Soviet Union.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:47 pmWHAT HAPPENED TO THE MOAT AROUND BAGHDAD? did they figure out how to out swim the crocs with laser beams on their heads?
how well did that wall work out in germany?
April 21st, 2007 at 12:47 pm#38
April 21st, 2007 at 12:49 pm#41
The Bill Moyers special is on Wednesday night at either 8PM or 9PM depending on your time zone. It runs 90 minutes; a scathing indictment of the news media and their helping to make the case for going to war instead of investigating and checking facts (as did Kinght-Ridder, now McClatchy). See an excerpt on truthout.org and other sources. Bill Moyers is also back for his regular program on Fridays at 9PM (?) every week.
Comment by legaleze
What a short sited comment.
Israel, South Korea, and Tiawan could all use that laser system.
Missles are going to be around for hundreds of years to come… so the USSR falling has no bearing… last I checked Russia has enough nukes left to destroy us all…
April 21st, 2007 at 12:50 pmThe Adhamiya ghetto is one of the first fruits of this sinister and doomed-to-failure plan. Even the most savage pre-war critics of the Bush Faction’s aggression against Iraq — and I was one of them — did not foresee that it would come to this: the Iraqis literally being imprisoned in their own cities, walled up behind tons of concrete and bristling concertina wire, forced to run a gauntlet of armed guards and proffer ID cards simply to reach their own homes.
Any sentient being knew that Bush’s bullshit about “liberation” was a transparent hoax to cover a brutal rape of Iraq; but I never thought he would actually herd the survivors into walled camps and set up ethnic ghettos in the heart of the ancient capital, like the Nazis partitioning Warsaw or Cracow.
But that’s precisely what’s happening now — to the deafening silence of the American Establishment and the Democratic “opposition”.
http://www.chris-floyd.com
April 21st, 2007 at 12:51 pmComment by tarazan — April 21, 2007 @ 12:35 pm
Yes, valid points. However, I argue that the wall is largely being built to stop sectarian violence and this is exactly what the Northern Ireland peace walls were erected for. I’d argue that, at the end of the day, all these walls do is reinforce the idea of totally separate communities and decrease the chance of reconciliation
Sorry, I realise I just used the phrase “at the end of the day”. Pure Football (OK, soccer) punditry term. It is Saturday mind!
April 21st, 2007 at 12:52 pmlast I checked Russia has enough nukes left to destroy us all…
Comment by Gerald Gibson Jr
Time to change yer depends…
April 21st, 2007 at 12:53 pmkaty,
I was disappointed in Maher’s show/guests last night. The governor made a couple of points, but he was out shouted by the two repugs. O’Sullivan was a particularly irritating snob.
BTW, on the Moyers’ special coming on Wednesday – Bill Kristol, Tom Friedman, William Safire and Judy Miller are among those who declined to be interviewed.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:53 pmThis wall, surrounding this neighborhood isn’t the first one that’s been built nor will it be the last. This truly gives me chills. My first thought was the Warsaw Ghetto and other walled cities where Jews were concentrated, then destroyed.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:53 pmTime to change yer depends…
Comment by Not Canadian
That right there is why the left can never stay on top of the rightwingers… short sited dreamy unrealistic idealism…
April 21st, 2007 at 12:55 pmTime for Chimpy to change HIS Depends!!
April 21st, 2007 at 12:56 pmThis wall, surrounding this neighborhood isn’t the first one that’s been built nor will it be the last. This truly gives me chills. My first thought was the Warsaw Ghetto and other walled cities where Jews were concentrated, then destroyed.
Comment by impeachcheneythenbush
I am sure the Sunnis feel the same way… like the guy they interviewed said… this will make matters worse… no one likes being caged in… they will attack it just to spite it…
And so America will have to station soldiers all along it forever to maintain it… just like the great wall of china and the hadrian wall.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:56 pmJay,
I know the wall wasn’t built to keep the Japanese out. More my point was that walls were great 400+ years ago, but not today. The freedom fighters will just blow them up, or shoot mortars over, or get a ladder, or drive through check points, planted IED’s, and so on ;)
More emtpy ideas from the party of Ideas… not…
April 21st, 2007 at 12:57 pmWalls don’t work.
The insurgents are lobbing shells into the Green Zone all the time.
And they infiltrated the Green Zone and blew up Iraqi lawmakers.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:59 pmRead Leon Uris’ ‘Mila 18′ for a good description of a ‘walled’ community in Warsaw. The U.S. has definitely matched the Nazis in brutality, but probably surpassed them in stupidity.
April 21st, 2007 at 1:02 pmI was disappointed in Maher’s show/guests last night. The governor made a couple of points, but he was out shouted by the two repugs. O’Sullivan was a particularly irritating snob
Comment by Marie — April 21, 2007 @ 12:53 pm
I have to agree and this seems to be a pattern this season. In Maher’s effort to be fair to the neocons he seem to be going overboard and giving them more time and leeway to overpower the Demcrat’s views. In the past I would watch the show several times in a week but the last few weeks once is enough.
April 21st, 2007 at 1:05 pmIt seems to be an universal pattern of behavior among knuckle-dragging “conservatives”: They want to solve all their problems either by shooting bullets at it, or building a wall around it.
Illegal immigration? A wall.
Fundamentalist regimes? Bullets
Suicide bombers? A wall
Unlocking a stalled peace process? Bullets
Civil war in Iraq? Bullets and a wall
Imaginative solutions is something that doesn’t come naturally to them, obviously…
April 21st, 2007 at 1:05 pmWell maybe if you could act civilized and stop killing each other hundreds at a time we might not have to wall you off, and put you in separate cages like animals.
April 21st, 2007 at 1:07 pmon the Moyers’ special coming on Wednesday – Bill Kristol, Tom Friedman, William Safire and Judy Miller are among those who declined to be interviewed.
Comment by Marie — April 21, 2007 @ 12:53 pm
oh! what a surprise… damn…
but that speaks volumes, doesn’t it?…
i think the good governor was a bit testy actually…
what was with that grinning at ms.holmes? … maybe i’m wrong…
did maher ever make the exact point that the mass replacement of attorney went back through bush1 and dear reagan?
that woman was an amazing denialist…
even NEW RULES was a bit of a yawn…
April 21st, 2007 at 1:08 pmah well…
But they are already encaged.. and they still do whatever they want.. what can this new cage do or stop? This administration is so lost its unbelievable.
April 21st, 2007 at 1:09 pmCheck out crooksandliars.com … it is about 3 articles down labeled “TDS: Jason Jones Refutes “An Inconvenient Truthâ€
its really funny… and the christianists really do think that way to… when I was a kid in church I remember them showing everyone in church a film about the soon to come end of days…
April 21st, 2007 at 1:12 pmWhat is it about conservatives and trying to promote Apartheid?
April 21st, 2007 at 1:13 pmHow do you make a clusterf#ck even worse? Well, it takes a Chimp….
April 21st, 2007 at 1:14 pm81: Oh yes. We Americans are SUCH adults, aren’t we?
April 21st, 2007 at 1:18 pmIsn’t a wall the current solution to everything? I understand that a wall is being built / is proposed to be built across the US border with Mexico to halt illegal immigration. Have I got this totally wrong? Please help out a Limey.
Are walls the answer? Well, since 2000 the wall they now build around Glastonbury festival means it’s almost impossible to jump over. Saying that, this is a limited area the festival needs to contain and those trying to jump in are largely stoned hippies. Not the hardest to outwit methinks.
It is the only clear example of a wall working that I can think of though.
April 21st, 2007 at 1:25 pmOff topic, but:
http://www.mankatofreepress.com/local/local_story_110182313.html
Iraqi vet with PTSD, driving around with four guns and pipes bombs in his truck. We will be reaping the consequences of Iraq for many years to come. Should we worry about the terraristts following us home or our own soldiers that don’t get the proper mental health care going berserk and killing people? Its already happened.
April 21st, 2007 at 1:35 pmwhats the point of a wal when youre leaving in 3 months with a failed surge
come let the iraqis build their lifes up ………GET OUT
April 21st, 2007 at 1:38 pmI don’t think I’d worry about the wall.
April 21st, 2007 at 1:47 pmWho the Hell will be able to build it without getting blown to bits?
Look how well the ditch worked.
Neo-con speak:
Walls = gated community
See? It’s ok now.
April 21st, 2007 at 2:02 pm/dripping sarcasm
Weren’t we told that we couldn’t afford a US-Mexico “border wall”?
How can we then afford an inner Iraqi wall?
April 21st, 2007 at 2:16 pmWalls = gated community
See? It’s ok now.
/dripping sarcasm
Comment by Zooey
I dont know if someone has written a book on this or not … but there is certainly enough material to do so…
Renaming things to try to change reality instead of accepting reality for what it is happens constantly on the right…
*Its not a fetus … its a baby
*Its not a war of aggression its an invasion for democracy
*Its not an occupation its a war
*Its not withdraw its surrender
*Its not religion its intelligent design
*Its not a obstruction of justice its serving at the pleasure of the president
*The Patriot Act is not destroying the Constitution its strengthing the hand of the terrorist fighters
*Its not spying on Americans its spying on terrorists
*Its not a terrible job.. Its a HECKUVA JOB!!!!!
ITS DECEIPT TO THEMSELVES AND US…
April 21st, 2007 at 2:17 pmGerald Gibson Jr,
If it weren’t so sickening, it would be funny.
April 21st, 2007 at 2:23 pm#94….Yeah, it is called ‘1984′ by george orwell
April 21st, 2007 at 2:23 pmITS DECEIPT TO THEMSELVES AND US…
Comment by Gerald Gibson Jr — April 21, 2007 @ 2:17 pm
um… until that comment, i was wondering if your name
April 21st, 2007 at 2:57 pmhad been hijacked… ggibson from michigan, right?
Mister Gorbachev! May we have those bricks?
April 21st, 2007 at 2:58 pmFrom Indiana..Kokomo Indiana…
Comment by Gerald Gibson Jr — April 21, 2007 @ 3:25 pm
ok… i knew that… it was a test… you passed…
April 21st, 2007 at 3:26 pm:-)
So…what does a Wall in Baghdad do?
It provides a stark, visible reminder that Iraq is living under an occupying force.
Why build the Wall? The article gives us an important clue:
These “reconciliation measures” include Iraq giving up 75% of its oil revenues for the next 30 years. The Iraqi Parliament is reluctant to do that, so Bush further fractures Iraq.
The Wall tells Iraqis that the U.S. is going to run their country for a very, very long time.
The Wall tells the rest of the world that Iraq is now ours to do with as we please.
The Wall is Bush’s way of flipping off Congress, the Iraqi people, and the rest of the world.
April 21st, 2007 at 3:29 pmComment by katy
Is it just me or did my response to you just get deleted?
April 21st, 2007 at 3:35 pmyour response just got deleted… all i did was refresh the page…
April 21st, 2007 at 3:47 pmmaybe it will come back… ’cause otherwise we look kinda silly…
:-)
OT — but have you heard that BushCo now have dropped the priority of training the Iraqis??? As in “When they stand up, we can stand down…”???
Has it been THAT hopeless? (the training)? And, if so, isn’t this an ADMISSION that, as Reid said, “The war is lost”?
April 21st, 2007 at 3:48 pmHere, then, is the legacy of George W. Bush. Fundamentally incapable of uniting anyone, anywhere, anytime through his “leadership,” we therefore institutionalize the true divisiveness of his incompetence and partisanship with an actual wall. Jesus, wasn’t the metaphorical wall he constructed between Americans of different stripe, between the Muslim sects of Iraq, between the United States and the rest of the world, between rationalism and mysticism enough? Now we must have brick and mortar?
Why not? It worked out so well for the Germans in Berlin. I can only pray that the anger this wall will certainly generate will not visit even more violence upon our forces there. I’m not holding my breath. The better path, as usual, would be to withdraw and permit a political solution among the Iraqis themselves.
Can’t have that, of course; ’tis far better to “support the troops” by keeping them entrenched firmly in the field of sectarian crossfire. Bush is a menace both here and abroad, and at this juncture, I struggle to comprehend how any thinking individual could believe otherwise. For the sake of this republic, he must be removed from office.
April 21st, 2007 at 3:50 pm#103 Sandy
April 21st, 2007 at 4:19 pmOf course, it means that the training has not worked; it means that Reid is right (as are so many others in seeing what is before our very eyes) but Bush&Co will never agree.
No, they will stop using that slogan about standing up and standing down, but they will build walls, they will increase the surge, they will stop-loss more troops, they will keep this horror going until they can lay it at the feet of the democrats and then they will blame them entirely for the failure — in 2009!!
yes, marie… sounds like the plan to me…
do you think if we remind the dems of this, enough times,
that they will figure out they have to deal with it… aka impeach?
can’t hurt to try…
April 21st, 2007 at 4:33 pmSandy:
“Training Iraqi troops no longer driving force in U.S. policy”
at
http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/17104704.htm
(linking thingie not working)
and here at
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/19/as-iraqis-stand-up-well-stand-down/#comments
at this rate I’m not sure the Bush admin will be able to hang on until the end of 2008! That’d really throw a wrench into their plans (I’m assuming) to blame the whole thing on the next prez!
April 21st, 2007 at 5:05 pm‘Several residents interviewed likened the project to the massive barriers built around some Palestinian zones in Israel.
“Are we in the West Bank?” asked Abu Qusay, 48, a pharmacist who said that access to his favorite kebab restaurant in Adhamiya has been cut off.’
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0704190704apr20,1,802478.story?coll=chi-newsnationworld-hed
April 21st, 2007 at 5:58 pmBrig. Gen. John F. Campbell “also said that several more gated communities are being erected in the Iraqi capital.”
http://www.thestar.com/News/article/205826
April 21st, 2007 at 6:04 pmWhat the HELL does the Great Wall have to do with the Iraqis, NOTHING. The Iraqis have a RIGHT to live as human beings, free from OCCUPATION, free from outside intervention, and free from getting their doors kicked down by U.S. military and there is NO DOUBT that Israel who has already aided in abu Grahib, according to Karpinski, already help create barriers surrounding Iraqi towns, ID check points etc. , something they specialize in THEIR apartheid state, are helping U.S. occupation forces in building “security walls”, which will give more recruitment to the RESISTANCE.
April 21st, 2007 at 6:08 pmI predicted before the occupation, they will have many reasons to resist occupation, from their BANKS being sold off by BREMMER, to water& SEWAGE controlled by U.S. corps., to THIS.
‘Whatever way you read it, the writing is on the wall for the U.S. occupation of Iraq. Hollow claims by U.S. President George W. Bush that “victory” is still possible are met by homicidal calls from al-Qaida for Sunni Muslims in Iraq to take up arms. The deadlock won’t be broken until U.S. forces get out.’
http://www.christiansofiraq.com/Iraqnowheremar257.html
April 21st, 2007 at 6:11 pmHow long must this insanity go on?
April 21st, 2007 at 6:18 pmI am all ears for a solution that will fix the violence, create the democracy the Iraqi’s deserve, and provide them with Freedom. This post from TP is fairly worthless however. It is just like the anti American senetor Harry Reid declaring America should lose to the terrorists. It is OK to say such things only when you also provide a plan that you believe will produce victory. Simply coming out ans saying Bush is doing the wrong thing is unhelpful and potentially dangerous since you are putting down our troops and enboldening our terrorist enemies in Iraq. Reid should apoligize to our troops. Furthermore, since he opened his mouth to critisize our troops, it is now his responsibility to provide a new solution for victory in Iraq. I hope he mans up this week and produces a complete strategy for success and realizes the damage his comments have causes.
April 21st, 2007 at 7:16 pmComment by katy — April 21, 2007 @ 4:33 pm
Yes, let’s remind them at every opportunity.
April 21st, 2007 at 7:19 pmI am all ears for a solution that will fix the violence, create the democracy the Iraqi’s deserve, and provide them with Freedom.
Comment by Roger_Roger — April 21, 2007 @ 7:16 pm
Then why is it you have not read my posts on the subject?
Why have you not read:
http://kucinich.us/iraqplan
April 21st, 2007 at 7:43 pmI am all ears for a solution that will fix the violence, create the democracy the Iraqi’s deserve
Comment by Roger_Roger
Iraqis dont deserve shit!
What do the people that jumped out of those towers on 911 deserve???
A lynch mob dragging those two traitors out of the white house, strapping them to the front of a car, and playing crashup dirby…
When are these traitors going to be replaced with people that are going to take 911 and the Saudis seriously???
April 21st, 2007 at 7:55 pm“I’m a uniter, not a divider.”
April 21st, 2007 at 7:59 pmGerald, news flash: Iraqi had nothing to do with 9/11. Pass it on throughout the rest of Wingnuttia.
April 21st, 2007 at 8:00 pmComment by jurassicpork
WTH are you talking about?
April 21st, 2007 at 8:05 pmIraqis dont deserve shit!
Comment by Gerald Gibson Jr — April 21, 2007 @ 7:55 pm
Iraqis, and all people, deserve to live in peace. They deserved sufficiency. They deserve basic human rights.
April 21st, 2007 at 8:16 pmComment by Briseadh na Faire
They dont deserve anything from our military….
When is our military going to be used for 911?
Or was 911 just a setup for Iraq?
April 21st, 2007 at 8:29 pmProbably. And an oil pipeline across Afghanistan. And increasing the Power of the President at the expense of civil liberties.
April 21st, 2007 at 9:04 pmWhat an idiotic idea!
April 21st, 2007 at 10:19 pmThe right wing criminal Bushite junta…
…is constructing the BERLIN WALL of the 21st Century…
…in a country they’ve supposedly “liberated”…
…and THEY have the gall to call Liberal Progressives…
…”Stalinists”, “Communists”, and “socialists”?…
…THEIR HYPOCRISY is definitely ingrained in THEIR culture…
…THEY must be destroyed politically, economically, and -where possibe- personally…
…if America is to survive…
April 21st, 2007 at 10:26 pmaww c’mon Bushite inbred trolls…
…I was just funnin’…
April 21st, 2007 at 11:23 pm…It is to inhibit car bombings and not to benefit the people located on both sides of it.
Comment by Jay Randal — April 21, 2007 @ 11:59 am
Seems like inhibiting car bombings would help everyone except the terrorists who use them. Who are you defending?
“… Why not go high tech and build big domes over each neighborhood and make them impenetrable to bombs and missiles through resurrecting Ronald Reagan’s useless star wars technology?”
Comment by Republicans are the Fear and Smear Party — April 21, 2007 @ 12:16 pm
Too bad we can’t just build such a dome over the U.S. and live in peace and let the rest of the world fight all they want. Of course, we’d have to end immigration and tourism to prevent another 9/11.
Where are the trolls?
Comment by Shane — April 21, 2007 @ 12:21 pm
I assume by this you mean conservatives. I’ve mentioned before, when I’ve not responded in as timely a manner as you thought I should, that not everyone has as much free time as you do. Most people have jobs, children, sick and/or elderly family members and school/church volunteer responsibilites.
How can US do all of this in a sovereign state?!
Comment by tarazan — April 21, 2007 @ 12:25 pm
With the cooperation of the elected government.
“… the Iraqis literally being imprisoned in their own cities, walled up behind tons of concrete and bristling concertina wire, forced to run a gauntlet of armed guards and proffer ID cards simply to reach their own homes….
…but I never thought he would actually herd the survivors into walled camps and set up ethnic ghettos in the heart of the ancient capital, like the Nazis partitioning Warsaw or Cracow.
But that’s precisely what’s happening now — to the deafening silence of the American Establishment and the Democratic “oppositionâ€.”
http://www.chris-floyd.com
Comment by Jean — April 21, 2007 @ 12:51 pm
No one is being “imprisoned” or “herded” by the wall. I don’t know that the wall will help much, but this kind of distortion of the truth makes it much more difficult to have a productive discussion. It is possible to express your opposition without making invalid, misleading statements like this.
“The U.S. has definitely matched the Nazis in brutality, but probably surpassed them in stupidity.”
Comment by fuzzwald — April 21, 2007 @ 1:02 pm
You ought to be ashamed of yourself and you owe an apology to every person who suffered at the hands of the Nazis. You have trivialized their suffering by your comparison.
“What is it about conservatives and trying to promote Apartheid?”
Comment by Bruce Gorton — April 21, 2007 @ 1:13 pm
Apartheid is separation based upon race. This wall is an attempt to separate terrorists from their victims. In some cases the terrorists are a different religious sect from their victims, but most are the same race. While I doubt how effective it will be, it is certainly not apartheid.
“81: Oh yes. We Americans are SUCH adults, aren’t we?”
Comment by fuzzwald — April 21, 2007 @ 1:18 pm
What is it about liberals and making blanket statements against America and/or Americans instead of rational statements when discussing an issue. Do we not agree, as Americans, that this is a great country in which to live? Can’t you be opposed to the current administration without disparaging the whole country? Does America go from being a great nation under Clinton, to an abomination under George Bush, to a great nation again if a liberal is elected? Somehow, America seems to me to be more than a reflection of the current administration. And liberals wonder why conservatives say, “if you don’t love it, leave it.”
“Neo-con speak:
Walls = gated community
See? It’s ok now.
/dripping sarcasm”
Comment by Zooey — April 21, 2007 @ 2:02 pm
Just as an aside, there are plenty of liberals in gated communities these days. I find this rather contradictory since they are usually the ones making excuses for criminals, yet they try to wall them out. Also, many conservatives hate gated communities and choose to live outside of town instead.
If you read sources other than NYT, you will find that not all the residents are opposed to the wall. Apparently, some of them view the wall as something they would rather not have, but are willing to live with because of the terrorists who are killing innocent people everyday. If it makes it a little more difficult for the terrorists, and results in a few less murders, I can see how they would feel.
April 22nd, 2007 at 4:30 amcc
The wall is about seperating Sunni’s and Shiites. It is all about seperating people based on their race – based on a fear of terrorism and the potential for genocide, which was very much a driving force behind Aparthied in its later years. Die swart gevar referenced pretty much the same thing that this wall references.
Trying to pretend that it isn’t Apartheid is simply not paying attention.
You know, just like how you conservatives have tried repeatedly to saint the man who, alongside Maggie Thatcher, tried to put an end to sanctions against the Apartheid government.
April 22nd, 2007 at 7:18 amToo bad they can’t do that in NYC, erecting a wall between The Donald and Rosie.
Homer http://www.altara.blogspot.com
April 22nd, 2007 at 10:00 amUPDATE:
Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki said Sunday that he has ordered a halt to the construction of a barrier that would separate a Sunni enclave from surrounding Shiite areas in Baghdad, saying there are other ways to protect the neighborhood.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070422/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_neighborhood_barrier
April 22nd, 2007 at 3:41 pmcc
The wall is about seperating Sunni’s and Shiites. It is all about seperating people based on their race – based on a fear of terrorism and the potential for genocide, which was very much a driving force behind Aparthied in its later years. Die swart gevar referenced pretty much the same thing that this wall references.
Trying to pretend that it isn’t Apartheid is simply not paying attention.
You know, just like how you conservatives have tried repeatedly to saint the man who, alongside Maggie Thatcher, tried to put an end to sanctions against the Apartheid government.
Comment by Bruce Gorton — April 22, 2007 @ 7:18 am
It is my understanding that the differences between the Sunni and Shiite Muslims are religious and some of them were originally from different tribes, but the same race. If you are saying this is incorrect and they are actually different races, then apartheid could apply. If they are different races, and I have misunderstood this information, then I will stand corrected. If they are not different races, then you also ought to be ashamed of yourself for comparing their situation to apartheid. It’s one thing to fight with your same race neighbors over religious opinions. It’s quite another to live along side of and be separated from people who think you are subhuman or at least not as good as they are due to your race.
As for your second comment, sainthood is a religious designation, not political. And my religion does not recognize sainthood. We believe they were just like everyone else, but they were especially godly people who committed their lives to His service. Politicians who serve their countries selflessly deserve to be called statesmen. I’m aware of very few who begin and end their careers that way. And, just for your information, liberals weren’t alone in their opposition to apartheid. There were differences of opinion as to how best to bring it to an end, but that doesn’t equal support for it.
April 22nd, 2007 at 5:07 pmThat right there is why the left can never stay on top of the rightwingers… short sited dreamy unrealistic idealism…
Comment by Gerald Gibson Jr — April 21, 2007 @ 12:55 pm
mmm…the true left doesnt want to be in top of any other ideology, otherwise we would be the same. Left is a response of right wing ideologies.
April 22nd, 2007 at 6:25 pm