Minimum wage hike moves forward.
By on Apr 21st, 2007 at 11:15 am
Minimum wage hike moves forward.
“House and Senate Democrats reached a deal Friday afternoon on a package of tax cuts that will accompany a minimum-wage-hike bill. The $4.9 billion package of tax breaks, along with a $2.10-an-hour increase in the federal minimum wage, will be included in the conference report for the emergency Iraq War spending bill.” More HERE.
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I wonder how many Americans would favor the minimum wage hike if every Starbuck’s coffee and McDonald’s sandwich also went up $2.10?
April 21st, 2007 at 11:18 amThis is exactly why I despise the democrats. As a small business owner increasing the minimum wage means more expenses to me. Oh well. I can always fire one of my employees to compensate for the hike. I guess that’s what the dems want.
–
April 21st, 2007 at 11:23 ammatthews.frank@gmail.com
If the tax cuts go to Wal-Mart corporation, then just forget the whole deal. The minimum wage should have been raised 25 cents an hour every year for the past 8 years, so would be $2.00 higher by now. Congress caused the problem by not pegging to inflation like their own salaries.
April 21st, 2007 at 11:26 amFascistFrank wants more money for him, but has no heart.
April 21st, 2007 at 11:26 amI wonder how many Americans would favor the minimum wage hike if every Starbuck’s coffee and McDonald’s sandwich also went up $2.10?
Hmmm… poverty wages vs. more expensive, already expensive designer coffee… You’re right, let those poor folks continue to barely get by. Cheap designer Starbucks is more important. After all, poor people are poor out of choice right? If they really wanted to do better, they would. I forgot, Republicans are the pro-life party.
April 21st, 2007 at 11:26 amFrank LOL I doubt you own a business, but adds nice touch to your comment.
I did own a coffee shop and art gallery, so raising the min. wage 25 cents a year would have been no problem, but jumping it a buck or more at a time adds an expense, so prices of coffee and such goes up accordingly.
April 21st, 2007 at 11:29 amDan, you seem to think McD’s and Starbucks only sell one coffee and one sandwich per employee per hour… your logic is lousy.
April 21st, 2007 at 11:30 amThese enormous corporations can afford it. Their CEO might get a tiny pay cut, but with the millions they make, they won’t miss it.
And FascistFrank, don’t you think that if all the minimum wage workers in your town had more disposable income to spend, they might spend some of it at your business? Until they found out they were supporting a fascist, of course.
SKdeA: Oh, I see. I should run a business as a charity – more jobs to people and less income to me.
Don’t you people get it. Us who run a business and actually hire people are generating wealth and giving people jobs. I deserve to get more than the other employees because I create the jobs, I take all the lean, I take all the risks and I have no fixed hours. Since the income remains constant, Increases in the minimum wage only mean that someone’s going to be kicked out. That’s not heartless. It’s rational.
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April 21st, 2007 at 11:33 ammatthews.frank@gmail.com
As a small business owner increasing the minimum wage means more expenses to me. Oh well. I can always fire one of my employees to compensate for the hike. I guess that’s what the dems want.
So what should the minimum wage be? Maybe $2/hour. Think of all the people you could employ then. Using your logic it should be next to nothing because it allows you to earn more money or hire more people. You’re not concerned with the ability of your employees to actually live on that wage. You act like it’s a gift to give an employee a job for a wage that is below the poverty line. Oh right, I forgot… expensive Starbucks coffee will result.
I’ve been a small business owner so I know that your line of B.S. is just that. If you actually employeed people right now and paid them min. wage and could let go of them, you would. The fact that you don’t let them go isn’t because you’re a nice guy, it’s because you need them to do whatever it is they do. If their cost goes up you’ll continue to employ them and either make less money or charge more. The cost of fuel goes up and you continue to get by… you don’t come here and tell us that that’s the reason you hate the Republicans… you accept the fact that costs go up. But somehow you expect your wage costs to remain at the poverty level.
April 21st, 2007 at 11:33 amA fair bit of nostalgia over the minimum wage argument. The most I can say, is I don’t support a system, that requires a segment of the population living in poverty. Clearly Frank would like his employees to be poor. And Frank buddy I don’t know what part of the country you live in, but Starbucks coffee, and a MCD’s sandwhich are well over $2 generally. Welcome to the 22nd century.
April 21st, 2007 at 11:35 amFrank
I own a small business and can’t get good help that gives quality service to our customers for under $10 an hour. We also provide health insurance and retirement. You get what you pay for and our customers are thrilled.
Many states have already increased minimum wage with no problem. And I guarantee Starbucks pays it’s baristas over minimum wage.
The difference between neocons and progressives is that we believe that our employees are human and deserve a life as much as we do. You people worry that your coffee will go up a dime.
April 21st, 2007 at 11:41 amKrazny: I’ve got no desire to see poor employees. I pay a good employee more, I pay a bad employee less. Minimum wage nonsense limits my choice and forces me to keep bad employees.
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April 21st, 2007 at 11:43 ammatthews.frank@gmail.com
People who begrudge minimum wage workers a $2.10 raise per hour deserve to go bankrupt.
April 21st, 2007 at 11:45 amFrank, you actually pay your employees $5.15 an hour? Scrooge. Bad enough that Congress has taken this long to raise the minimum. Much worse the employers who undervalue human labor just because the law allows it.
April 21st, 2007 at 11:46 amShane: But why would you pay $10 an hour to someone you don’ t know? If I had my way, the system would work so that if you’re interested in a job, you’d work for free for a few weeks, show that you’re up to the task and then I’d hire you for a decent salary. Now I’ve got to pay all kinds of misfits regardless of whether they work or spend their time talking on the cellphone with their girl/boyfriend and hiding from the customers.
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April 21st, 2007 at 11:46 ammatthews.frank@gmail.com
How does minimum wage prevent you from firing a bad employee?
April 21st, 2007 at 11:49 amFrankie-poo,
April 21st, 2007 at 11:49 amYou should fire yourself for getting involved in something as cut-throat as the stupid coffee house business. I’m self employed, but when I sub-contract, I pay my workers over $12/hour. My line of work must be MUCH more profitable than yours. You reap what you sow. Don’t like it, then find another line of work pal.
Frank, the fascist is now arguing for capitalism…..anyone see the irony in this?
April 21st, 2007 at 11:50 amMinimum wage increases don’t hurt employees of McJobs. They can’t really outsource, and they keep a minimum overhead – including employees – as it is. How are they gonna cut back hours when they already don’t keep enough staff on hand, huh?
Also, in my experience, wage increases will make your food about 50 cents more expensive on the pricier items, maybe. You’re telling me you can’t afford that? Why are you eating out, then, if 50 cents is making such a dent in your pocket? Go shop at an Aldi’s (the cheapest grocery store ever, and they pay really great! wish I worked there!) and cook at home, you poor bastard. Or, get a part-time job at a lax fast food place and take home free or discounted food, like we do. I’ve enjoyed a LOT of nice, free lattes, thanks.
But I think the problem is, the owners and bosses aren’t seeing these as real jobs, so they don’t understand why someone would try to live off them. At the same time, the government views pretty much all jobs just the same. So they need to either compromise or force McJobs to become “real”. I’m not an economist or business person, though. I have no idea which is best.
April 21st, 2007 at 11:52 amI’ve got to pay all kinds of misfits regardless of whether they work or spend their time talking on the cellphone with their girl/boyfriend and hiding from the customers.
Comment by Frank Matthews
Doesn’t say a lot about your interviewing skills, does it Frank?
Fire ‘em.
Maybe the word has gotten around that you pay shit for wages, and you’re only attracting scum?
Shane pays $10 an hour and doesn’t attract scum. Go figure….
April 21st, 2007 at 11:53 amYou must really get pissed when other expenses such as utilities, property taxes, social security, insurance, postal expenses, etc. go up. Hasn’t anyone ever told you that your business must continually increase income or you’ll go out of business. If you have a business and your income is constant, then increasing employee wages isn’t your biggest problem!
You are missing out in employee relations 101. If the employees have a vested interest in making the business successful, then they will work hard. If you treat them like slaves, the you will get minimal effort. Paying lousy wages doesn’t invest employees in making you successful. Figure it out!
April 21st, 2007 at 11:55 am#16: you’ll have to keep the bad employee in while you’re looking for a replacement. I usually cut his salary to a minimum and now, if this hike goes through, I’ll have to pay these deadbeats more.
#17: I don’t have a coffee shop. I deal in hardware.
#18: I’m not a cookie-cut fascist. I don’t believe in the state owning any businesses anymore than I wear jackboots. Nice, illogical thinking there.
–
April 21st, 2007 at 11:56 ammatthews.frank@gmail.com
Frankie-poo’s argument has left little doubt that he in NO WAY owns/runs his own business. If you had crappy employees hiding from customers and talking on cell phones, then YOU’RE the fool for not firing them!!!
You’re either (a) a terrible business owner who will fail miserably, or (b) a liar.
Nice try though.
April 21st, 2007 at 11:58 amI deal in hardware.
Then you’re an even BIGGER FOOL for starting a business which has to compete with HomeDepot and Lowes.
LOL.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:00 pmIf I had my way, the system would work so that if you’re interested in a job, you’d work for free for a few weeks,
Comment by Frank Matthews — April 21, 2007 @ 11:46 am
I would suggest some research on the labor movement Frank, besides even if you could get away with this no one except the retarded would choose to work for you. You are the worst type of boss I can think of, want everyone to give 200%, but are unwilling to treat your employees well.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:00 pm#16: you’ll have to keep the bad employee in while you’re looking for a replacement. I usually cut his salary to a minimum and now, if this hike goes through, I’ll have to pay these deadbeats more.
Comment by Frank Matthews — April 21, 2007 @ 11:56 am
I have noticed in business, problems in any place starts from the top down. Here Frank is clearly incapable of running a business, but wants to blame others.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:02 pmBut why would you pay $10 an hour to someone you don’ t know?
Comment by Frank Matthews — April 21, 2007 @ 11:46 am
Because we respect our customers and assume they have limited time and money to spend. If we have somebody incompetent and we lose customers what have we gained.
Minumum wage increases don’t prevent you from terminating bad employees. And you are already allowed to have a trial period for new employees. It’s obvious you don’t really own a business and are just parroting bs you heard on Fox.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:03 pmNext time Frank, you should maybe start a software company and go after, oh, let’s say, MICROSOFT????
Good luck.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:04 pmKrazny:
You employees just expect that you have somekind of a right to a job and to a salary and yet you’re just too goddamn lazy to start your own business. You and the unions are always screaming about how people have got to be given jobs. Well, start your own business and try to see how easy it is to make a living when you’ve got to carry all the responsibility! You seem to think that the money comes out of nowhere and you deserve it simply for showing up at work.
Maybe I’ll just close my shop and fire all the people. Happy now?
–
April 21st, 2007 at 12:06 pmmatthews.frank@gmail.com
Perfectly logical. You stated you are a fascist, now act accordingly or STFU!
April 21st, 2007 at 12:06 pmShane: I know you can have a trial period, but you didn’t get my point. I still have to pay for these morons.
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April 21st, 2007 at 12:07 pmmatthews.frank@gmail.com
Good case in point Frank, in Spokane, near the border of Washington State and Idaho, they pay the minimum wage of I think $7.60. Idaho on the other hand pays the Federal minimum at $5.50. Most of the people who live in Idaho near the border will seek jobs in Washington, because they get paid more. Idaho business have a tough time finding anyone who will work for $5.50. So not only do business in Washington attract more workers, but they get the better workers as well. Try being human, instead of being greedy.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:09 pmIf I had my way, the system would work so that if you’re interested in a job, you’d work for free for a few weeks,
Comment by Frank Matthews — April 21, 2007 @ 11:46 am
Good point for somebody looking for a job, when somebody shows you what they are, believe it. I took one job in my youth where the owner promised that if I started for less within a month I’d be making twice as much. I didn’t last a week because it was obvious this cheap skate was lying.
It’s people like Frank that make welfare preferable to work.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:10 pmMaybe I’ll just close my shop and fire all the people. Happy now?
Comment by Frank Matthews
I still have to pay for these morons.
Comment by Frank Matthews
What a frickin’ whiner.
Frank, ever heard of Karma?
April 21st, 2007 at 12:10 pmMaybe I’ll just close my shop and fire all the people. Happy now?
–
matthews.frank@gmail.com
Comment by Frank Matthews — April 21, 2007 @ 12:06 pm
Wow Frank, don’t like it when you are confronted do you? Perhaps you should take some courses on how to manage people. You might gain some insight into them, instead of treating them like po’ people. Perhaps if you saw them as people instead of cattle? If you treat your employees poorly Frank, they will respond in Kind. I work very hard for my employer, but he also pays me very well.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:11 pmMaybe I’ll just close my shop and fire all the people. Happy now?
Comment by Frank Matthews — April 21, 2007 @ 12:06 pm
And then you’ll be out looking for a job. Maybe you’ll learn some much needed empathy.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:12 pmMaybe I’ll just close my shop and fire all the people. Happy now?
Well, it’s probably next to impossible to sell anything in Fantasy Land, where your “shop” exists.
Happy? Only if you learn a lesson from your failures.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:13 pmIf I had my way, the system would work so that if you’re interested in a job, you’d work for free for a few weeks,
Comment by Frank Matthews — April 21, 2007 @ 11:46 am
Oh, I get it, you’re a communist…..LOL
April 21st, 2007 at 12:14 pmThe trickle on economics the republicans support doesn’t work. It didn’t work leading up to the great depression, it didn’t work when Reagan tried it, and it isn’t working now. When the majority of the population has disposable income to spend on homes, home repairs, meals out, and TV’s then the economy does well. Consolidating wealth into a few hands doesn’t work.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:17 pmBTW, if Frankie-poo is dealing in hardware, then he’s in a storefront, not a shop. Shops are where things are built. Storefronts are for selling.
What a pathetic liar.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:18 pm…close my shop and fire all the people. Happy now?
oh man… we’ve done it now… went and had a bunch of people fired…
April 21st, 2007 at 12:19 pmit’s all our fault… and ThinkProgress is the ringleader…
waaa.
Hey Frank, who’s your daddy? Hitler? Pol Pot? Mussolini? Stalin? A=A, choose one.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:25 pmoh man… we’ve done it now… went and had a bunch of people fired…
it’s all our fault… and ThinkProgress is the ringleader…
waaa.
Comment by katy — April 21, 2007 @ 12:19 pm
My coffee is now on my keyboard, katy. But it was worth it.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:27 pm#13
People who begrudge minimum wage workers a $2.10 raise per hour deserve to go bankrupt.
Comment by Zooey — April 21, 2007 @ 11:45 am
AMEN TO THAT!!!
April 21st, 2007 at 12:30 pmSomeone please cue up the nazi national anthem every time Frank opens his pie-hole!
April 21st, 2007 at 12:35 pmSo the main issue Frank has with minimum wage is that it puts a limit on how little he can pay his low quality employees. The lack of logic is astounding. Earlier he said that as a result of a minimum wage increase he would have to let go employees. Now he complains that he has to keep sh!tty employees on the payroll and pay them too much because of minimum wage. Here’s a thought Frank… pay your employees a decent wage & they’ll work better. Fire those that don’t. If you’re paying a decent wage it won’t be hard to replace them. If you can’t find anyone to replace them the answer isn’t to pay your sh!tty employees less & keep them on… the answer is to pay the market value of good employees. If you were actually doing that now the minimum wage increase wouldn’t affect you. But you & I both know that this whole hardware store is a fabrication to make a point. And since you aren’t really in business your point is lost due to your lack of knowledge about the true situation.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:35 pmEasy to feel that way when it’s not coming out of YOUR pocket. It’s simple economics folks. If the minimum wage is raised, one of three things will happen: either the company will make less money, lay people off, or prices will go up. Make less money you say? Sure, then the company has less money to pay dividends, less money for R&D, less money for expansion. Lay people off? Just screwed the economy. Prices go up? Okay, so now everything gets more expensive (not just the Starbucks coffee).
On top of this, many union contracts are pegged to the minimum wage; which means an automatic increase for union workers. So now prices go up even MORE.
If you’re that concerned about ‘leveling the playing field’, go live in a socialist country; quit trying to force the US into socialism.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:39 pmMy coffee is now on my keyboard, katy. But it was worth it.
Comment by Shane
My water is up my nose, but yes, it was worth it.
Great one, katy!!
April 21st, 2007 at 12:39 pmSo Dave C, you’re a small business owner, huh? What type of business? Do you provide low-skilled jobs like McDonalds? Do you pay your people greater than minimum wage? What’s the average salary you’re paying?
April 21st, 2007 at 12:40 pmwhy, thank you, shane…
April 21st, 2007 at 12:42 pmso sorry, but i can’t be responsible for your keyboard…
i do feel bad about those jobs though…
Frank pissed his pants, his mommy is changing his diapers, He’ll be right back.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:44 pmzooey – it can happen occasionally… thanks!
April 21st, 2007 at 12:45 pm“try the veal”, as they say…
i do feel bad about those jobs though…
Comment by katy
Hey katy, where should I go to get my sarcastic wit sharpened?
April 21st, 2007 at 12:46 pmI need to go where you’re going. :D
@#2 Frank.
Heartless SOB I hope your business fails and you end up having to work for minimum wage.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:46 pmfrankthefascist is a very lame poser…
i should be outside… not sure about the northern IL weather, but it’s too nice to be inside here in so.central part…
am waiting for a call back – trying to sell my daughter’s car…
talk about bad luck – had a caller/looker and after the test drive the radiator starts steaming/smoking/leaking… w00t…
i’m waiting to hear if, for $200 less the guy will take it off my hands…
what d’ya think? 90 prism, low miliage… heh…
April 21st, 2007 at 12:52 pmHey katy, where should I go to get my sarcastic wit sharpened?
I need to go where you’re going. :D
Comment by Zooey — April 21, 2007 @ 12:46 pm
i may have answered that with my previous post…
even I don’t want to go where i’m going :P
April 21st, 2007 at 12:54 pmSo Dave C, you’re a small business owner, huh? What type of business? Do you provide low-skilled jobs like McDonalds? Do you pay your people greater than minimum wage? What’s the average salary you’re paying?
Comment by Dale — April 21, 2007 @ 12:40 pm
I believe if you go back you’ll find I said I’ve “been” a small business owner. I still am, but I don’t employ any staff. But I did in the past. I write accounting software for a living. When I had staff it was only two people and they were paid $30k plus bonuses based on company earnings. But that’s hardly a comparable situation to someone who’s complaining about minimum wage. What is comparable is the notion that you get what you pay for and if you pay minimum wage you will get very little as far as a quality employee goes. I could have paid less for my staff but I’d have had to take on people with less experience and worse work ethic. It wasn’t worth the savings… would have cost me in the end.
$5.15 isn’t a wage that someone can live on. It hasn’t been raised in 10 years. Inflation runs about 3% so during those 10 years the cost of living has increased about 34%. It’s ridiculous to expect someone to continue to work for that wage.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:57 pmwhy, thank you, shane…
so sorry, but i can’t be responsible for your keyboard…
i do feel bad about those jobs though…
Comment by katy — April 21, 2007 @ 12:42 pm
Not to worry about my keyboard, although I am thinking of getting it a splash guard.
I bet those employees will really miss seeing Frank every day, for shame.
April 21st, 2007 at 1:11 pmComment by Dave C — April 21, 2007 @ 12:57 pm
Dale, I’m waiting with bated breath for Dale’s witty retort.
April 21st, 2007 at 1:13 pmMaybe I’ll just close my shop and fire all the people. Happy now?
matthews.frank@gmail.com
And then, Frank, after you find yourself an employer, and in your own words…
If I had my way, the system would work so that if you’re interested in a job, you’d work for free for a few weeks,
Comment by Frank Matthews
Good luck payin’ them bills, Frank. And after a few weeks maybe your new employer can fire you, and then you can start the process all over again. After all, why should he pay you at all when it’s much cheaper to get another employee to work for free for a few weeks,
et al, ad nauseum.
Talk about a republican wet dream!
April 21st, 2007 at 1:27 pm$5.15 was never meant to be a wage that someone can live on; it’s a starting wage.
You did have one thing correct though; your situation is *not* comparable to someone who hires minimum-wage personnel. Depending on what your staff did, I’m sure they needed at least a modicum of accounting or office experience… if they didn’t already have it, then I’d venture that you expected them to learn those skills. This doesn’t compare to the ’skills’ required to flip burgers or dispense coffee.
Too true. But why would a person try to have a career of flipping burgers? Isn’t there something more demanding that they’d aspire to?
So Shane, what type of business do *you* own?
April 21st, 2007 at 2:45 pmDisclaimer: I’m no economist.
But I have an observation here. Frank is unhappy that he has to pay a certain minimum wage, regretting that he can’t pay what he personally thinks people deserve (and he would certainly pay a FORTUNE to the “worthy”, I’m sure). He bleats that people think they have a right to a job.
Simple solution: start a business that deals only in what YOU PERSONALLY can produce and sell – your own little cottage industry. You don’t have the right to own a business that reaps the rewards of others work while denying some of that return to them. I think Karl Marx mentioned something about that.
I agree with what’s been said here: you tend to get the employees you deserve.
April 21st, 2007 at 2:48 pm$5.15 was never meant to be a wage that someone can live on; it’s a starting wage.
If it’s a starting wage then the premise is that it will go up. It’s now up. Live with it. Hopefully those that earn it can now live with it too. For many that starting wage became their living wage. If not then the increase wouldn’t be that meaningful as it would only affect new hirings, not existing ones. But from the bleating I’m hearing there must be quite a few employees that are still living with that starting wage.
But why would a person try to have a career of flipping burgers? Isn’t there something more demanding that they’d aspire to?
Spoken like a true Republican. It’s the poor people’s fault that they’re poor. They must not aspire to wealth.
April 21st, 2007 at 2:54 pmSpoken like a true Republican. It’s the poor people’s fault that they’re poor. They must not aspire to wealth.
Comment by Dave C — April 21, 2007 @ 2:54 pm
’cause all they have to do is think positive!
April 21st, 2007 at 3:00 pmwish and you shall receive!
Starbucks pays $10/hr, plus optional medical insurance for people who work over 20 hours a week.
In this category, Starbucks is one of the good guys.
April 21st, 2007 at 3:33 pmIt’ll go up through market forces, it shouldn’t go up my government mandate.
Where did I say they shouldn’t aspire to wealth? I specifically said “Isn’t there something more demanding that they’d aspire to?
“. So the only way they should aspire to wealth is through the government? Shouldn’t they aspire to wealth by wanting to get a better job? Why would someone be content with flipping burgers for the rest of their life? And if that’s all they want, why should *I* finance them?
No, it takes hard work… but mandating wages is just another step to socialism. If you don’t agree, please show where I’m wrong.
April 21st, 2007 at 3:33 pm#64. So what will happen now that McDonalds is starting at $7.25? In order to say competitive in hiring, Starbucks will have to pay more money… and so on and so on… raises for everybody, yippee! Let the government take care of me!
April 21st, 2007 at 3:37 pmI wonder how many Americans would favor the minimum wage hike if every Starbuck’s coffee and McDonald’s sandwich also went up $2.10?
Comment by D
If that 2.10 is devided up between all the sandwichs or cups of coffee made in an hour then I dont think anyone would really care.
April 21st, 2007 at 3:49 pmThis is exactly why I despise the democrats. As a small business owner increasing the minimum wage means more expenses to me. Oh well. I can always fire one of my employees to compensate for the hike. I guess that’s what the dems want.
–
matthews.frank@gmail.com
Comment by Frank Matthews
If your company can only survive by working people at the current minimum wage forever then you dont have a viable business model. Move it to china or go get some schooling on how to grow and become more efficient.
The reality is that viable companies can pass some of the cost on and EAT some of the cost out of their profits… stop being stingy bastards.
April 21st, 2007 at 3:52 pm… raises for everybody, yippee! Let the government take care of me!
just when i think that maybe that one is somewhat tolerable,
April 21st, 2007 at 3:57 pmi says a most assinine, illogical thing such as that… …
…
it says…
April 21st, 2007 at 4:06 pm#69, katy, that’s the best you can do?
So katy, how would you feel if the government came in and said you had to discount $500 from your car? Isn’t that essentially what a minimum wage does? Dictate the value of goods? In the case of McDonalds, the “goods” is the labor of the worker. In your case, the “goods” is the car.
So maybe the government should say that since the poor cannot afford to pay new car payments, then you should reduce the price of your car?
Still fair?
April 21st, 2007 at 4:33 pmSpoken like a true Republican. It’s the poor people’s fault that they’re poor. They must not aspire to wealth.
Comment by Dave C — April 21, 2007 @ 2:54 pm
And then he’ll complain when a Mexican who doesn’t speak English wait on him. Many people are thrust into these starting jobs because of circumstances beyond their control. And if they spend more going to work than the money they can’t do it.
Of course I wouldn’t expect our trolls to understand but many women taking these jobs have to pay for childcare.
April 21st, 2007 at 4:41 pmthat one’s bouncing off the walls, dale…
April 21st, 2007 at 4:45 pmand that’s all you’re getting from me…
#71, & 72, so when you can’t discuss the points I brought up, you make assumptions “And then he’ll complain when a Mexican who doesn’t speak English wait on him.” and give up. “and that’s all you’re getting from me…”
Really. You wouldn’t happen to have any facts to back up your supposition, would you?
April 21st, 2007 at 4:53 pmI’m more concerned about the following than Frank’s desire to have others work for him for free:
“…will be included in the conference report for the emergency Iraq War spending bill.â€
This needs to be a stand alone bill. I realize that Iraq Conflict funding needs to be passed in some form and that’s one reason to include it in that bill, but as long as Bush is blowing smoke about a veto that puts a minimum wage increase in limbo (if limbo still existed, of course!).
April 21st, 2007 at 4:58 pmYou wouldn’t happen to have any facts to back up your supposition, would you?
Comment by Dale — April 21, 2007 @ 4:53 pm
Just common sense.
April 21st, 2007 at 5:47 pmDale, it’s incomprehensible to me that with all of the things that your current govt has been doing to take away the rights of the common man and the way they’ve been spending your money & racking up debt on your behalf your biggest concern is that they feel that the poor people deserve a living wage that will sustain life. You see that as meddling in your life but all the rest is fine & dandy. I really would love to hear your opinion if/when the next administration (which will be Democrat) carries on in the same vein as the Bush admin. You’ll be howling at the moon then. Should be good for a laugh. btw, I’m Canadian. I have little faith that either Dem/Rep will do the right thing. The Dems just seem to care more about the other 95% that the Reps have dismissed.
April 21st, 2007 at 5:58 pmDale, 3 of 10 has no common sense, Shane, only collective rebublican talking points.
April 21st, 2007 at 6:29 pmMost of those who make minimum wage are the kids of rich and middle class folks, so it doesn’t really help anyone out. Whoever said we should just index it to inflation is right. Index it to the CPI and be done with it. But the democrats won’t do that because they need this as a political football.
Raising the minimum wage is no big deal. Over a few years, it impacts nobody. Prices and other wages will adjust upwards. Then we’ll be back to the status quo.
April 21st, 2007 at 6:59 pmThis is a great bill I hope everyone supports. A minimum wage hike was desperately needed. The Tax cut is also extremely needed to help continue the economic growth. Our economy has been booming for well over 3 years now and these types of policies pertaining to the tax cut and extra motivation for our work force ($$$) can only help the already fabulous success of the US business owner and the stock market. I only hope the Dems continue to look for more ways to reduce the tax burden so our economy can continue its unreal success. By the looks of it, the Dems are working and taking advice from Bush. This is a smart bipartisan move by the Dems. Bush has done a horrible job on most every aspect of presidency, but the one thing he has proven to excel in is economic policy.
He guided this country through the tech bust of the 90’s and the crippling economic effects from 9/11. He didn’t simply “get us by” either. He has produced policies that have allowed the stock market to climb to its highest point ever. He also can claim great success for the historically low unemployment rate. At this point almost no one is looking for a job as we are hovering around 4% unemployment. I salute the dems for continuing the success of Bush and the previous congress when it comes to economic policy.
April 21st, 2007 at 7:07 pmHe has produced policies that have allowed the stock market to climb to its highest point ever.
ha ha ha. It only took 6 years. While the U.S. economy has languished the stock market of Canada, most of Europe & Asia have been doing double digit growth. You call that success?
And you’re ignoring your dropping dollar, the huge debtload that your country is saddled with, your trade deficit is at an alltime high, the Euro is soon to become the world currency… If China were to call your debt your country would be bankrupt. More success I guess…
April 21st, 2007 at 7:18 pmHe also can claim great success for the historically low unemployment rate. At this point almost no one is looking for a job as we are hovering around 4% unemployment.
This is why the minimum wage is such a big issue. The Bush policies have swapped high paying jobs for menial labor. the unemployment %’s don’t show it but the quality of labor has declined. So minimum wage is more important due to all of the low paying jobs being added to the economy. More success…
April 21st, 2007 at 7:25 pmAnd lastly, either way you look at it, Bush either caused or facilitated 9/11. The crippling effects on the economy were due to his actions or inaction. He owns it and it’s taken 6 years to climb out of the pit he dug. Enjoy your success. While your stock market has finally caught up with where it was most portfolios have increased by 50-75%. I dumped my U.S. stocks as soon as Bush was selected and I’ve never looked back.
April 21st, 2007 at 7:34 pm…I salute the dems for continuing the success of Bush and the previous congress when it comes to economic policy. = r2
holy crap… caraaazy dizzy here! … woooh!
April 21st, 2007 at 7:56 pm“I wonder how many Americans would favor the minimum wage hike if every Starbuck’s coffee and McDonald’s sandwich also went up $2.10?
Comment by Dan — April 21, 2007″
Dan, they’re liberals! They have never understood basic economics!
April 21st, 2007 at 8:11 pm“This is exactly why I despise the democrats. As a small business owner increasing the minimum wage means more expenses to me. Oh well. I can always fire one of my employees to compensate for the hike. I guess that’s what the dems want.
–
matthews.frank@gmail.com
Comment by Frank Matthews — April 21, 2007″
This is exactly what the foolish libs don’t understand!
April 21st, 2007 at 8:12 pm“FascistFrank wants more money for him, but has no heart.
Comment by SKdeA — April 21, 2007″
No, Frank is using common sense! You would rather see the wage increase and Frank takes the hit? That’s not how it happens and never will! Wake up!
April 21st, 2007 at 8:15 pm“let those poor folks continue to barely get by. Cheap designer Starbucks is more important. After all, poor people are poor out of choice right? If they really wanted to do better, they would. I forgot, Republicans are the pro-life party.
Comment by Dave C — April 21, 2007″
If you feel that strongly about them then help them out yourself? I won’t hold my breath! Poor people are poor because they made some very bad decisions whether that be not getting an education or having too many children that they can’t support. It has NOTHING to do with the level of the minimum wage!
April 21st, 2007 at 8:20 pm“Dan, you seem to think McD’s and Starbucks only sell one coffee and one sandwich per employee per hour… your logic is lousy.
These enormous corporations can afford it. Their CEO might get a tiny pay cut, but with the millions they make, they won’t miss it.
And FascistFrank, don’t you think that if all the minimum wage workers in your town had more disposable income to spend, they might spend some of it at your business? Until they found out they were supporting a fascist, of course.
Comment by SKdeA — April 21, 2007″
You can walk down any street here in San Francisco and Practically every Starbucks is advertising $8.25/hr, NO EXPERIENCE!
April 21st, 2007 at 8:23 pm“I dumped my U.S. stocks as soon as Bush was selected and I’ve never looked back.
Comment by Dave C — April 21, 2007″
And it closed over 13,000!
April 21st, 2007 at 8:24 pmAnd it closed over 13,000!
No it didn’t. Close but not quite. And even if it had it’s sadly lagging behing every other investment I own. Check out the 6 year return. Either way the stock market is hardly a reflection of the U.S. economy.
April 21st, 2007 at 8:46 pmIf you feel that strongly about them then help them out yourself? I won’t hold my breath!
I’ll make you a deal… I support helping out the poor so I’ll kick some more money into the pot for the people in my city. You support GWB & his war so you enlist in the army. I’ll put up if you will.
April 21st, 2007 at 9:01 pmComment by Dan #1
…they’d SAVE money…
… and (in the case of McDonalds) their lives…
…by NOT eating there…
April 21st, 2007 at 10:43 pm“I’ll make you a deal… I support helping out the poor so I’ll kick some more money into the pot for the people in my city. You support GWB & his war so you enlist in the army. I’ll put up if you will.
Comment by Dave C — April 21, 2007″
I already served six years in the U.S. Navy! IDIOT!
April 21st, 2007 at 10:50 pmI already served six years in the U.S. Navy! IDIOT!
Comment by michael #93
…so what’re six MORE in defense of “our way of life”?
…you DO believe “we’re fighting for our very survival, our civilization”…
…don’t you?
April 21st, 2007 at 11:08 pmIn Oregon the minimum wage is $7.65 – and we have a Starbucks on every corner – plus both of my kids have worked at Starbucks, and while $7.65 isn’t enough to live on, it certainly helped them get thru college (fewer loans that if they had earned less.)
April 21st, 2007 at 11:10 pmBut why would you pay $10 an hour to someone you don’ t know? If I had my way, the system would work so that if you’re interested in a job, you’d work for free for a few weeks, show that you’re up to the task and then I’d hire you for a decent salary.
–matthews.frank@gmail.com
Comment by Frank Matthews
Frank’s ideal scheme of not paying workers for a few weeks reminds me of a private language school I heard about in Japan, which advertised for teachers of various languages (English, German, etc) and then made the ones who came for interviews give “trial” lessons to students. According to my Austrian friend, a potential German teacher, who got caught in this scam, no one was ever hired, but the school got many free “trial” lessons out of native speakers of various languages until it finally went bust.
April 21st, 2007 at 11:36 pmI live in Arizona. (on the Gonzales sleeps well thread)
Comment by michael — April 20, 2007 @ 9:59 pm
(#88 this thread)You can walk down any street here in San Francisco and Practically every Starbucks is advertising $8.25/hr!
Comment by michael — April 21, 2007 @ 8:23 pm
I didn’t know that San Francisco is loacted in Arizona, Mikey.
April 21st, 2007 at 11:40 pm“I wonder how many Americans would favor the minimum wage hike if every Starbuck’s coffee and McDonald’s sandwich also went up $2.10?
Comment by Dan — April 21, 2007″
Dan, they’re liberals! They have never understood basic economics!
Comment by michael
No, Mikey, it’s you and Dan who don’t understand simple economics if you think, as another poster already pointed out, that Starbucks and McDonalds respectively sell only one coffee or one sandwich per worker per hour. Now that would really be bad business, 阿呆ï¼
April 21st, 2007 at 11:44 pmI already served six years in the U.S. Navy! IDIOT!
Comment by michael — April 21, 2007 @ 10:50 pm
I see, and I should know that eh? I guess when you suggested that I give to the poor I should have shouted that I give to the poor every year moron! And I still do. Yet you don’t continue to serve your country in the War on Terror. What’s up with that? They’re even sending old folks and people with concussions & other mental disorders out to Iraq. I’m sure you’d qualify.
April 21st, 2007 at 11:45 pmI didn’t know that San Francisco is loacted in Arizona, Mikey.
Comment by Lora
Lora,
That dick “Jake” hijacked the name “michael” yesterday.
April 21st, 2007 at 11:55 pm“…so what’re six MORE in defense of “our way of lifeâ€?
…you DO believe “we’re fighting for our very survival, our civilizationâ€â€¦
…don’t you?
Comment by big papa — April 21, 2007″
Yes I do you stupid old man. It seems that time has erased common sense from your brain! Countries like France, Germany, England, and Scandanavia have been overrun with these muslim fanatics. Are you having a tough time seeing this? Is your political correctness going to let the same thing happen here?
April 22nd, 2007 at 12:27 am“I didn’t know that San Francisco is loacted in Arizona, Mikey.
Comment by Lora — April 21, 2007″
It’s not! You have me mixed up with someone else!
April 22nd, 2007 at 12:30 am“No, Mikey, it’s you and Dan who don’t understand simple economics if you think, as another poster already pointed out, that Starbucks and McDonalds respectively sell only one coffee or one sandwich per worker per hour. Now that would really be bad business, 阿呆ï¼
Comment by Lora — April 21, 2007″
Of course I don’t think that BUT I think common sense! Raising the minimum wage when inexperienced people are already making more than it? Of course I’m referring to places like McDonalds & Starbucks. Where it will hurt is the mom and pop store that hires a school kid to stock shelves. Kiss those jobs goodbye!
April 22nd, 2007 at 12:38 amYet you don’t continue to serve your country in the War on Terror. What’s up with that? They’re even sending old folks and people with concussions & other mental disorders out to Iraq. I’m sure you’d qualify.
Comment by Dave C — April 21, 2007″
I don’t? I support them emotionally unlike you traitors on the left!
April 22nd, 2007 at 12:41 am#102 It’s not! You have me mixed up with someone else!
#104 I support them (the troops) emotionally unlike you traitors on the left!
Comments by michael
Are you now claiming, Mikey, that the “michael” posting yesterday on the Gonzo sleeps well thread is not you? I think you’ve just been outed as a liar, Mikey–not that that surprises me.
April 22nd, 2007 at 12:58 amThese are serious allegations. Do you have any proof that all of us are traitors and don’t support the troops, Mikey?
I would also advise you, before you make a further libelous idiot out of yourself, to look at the IAVA (Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America) website for their ratings on how all members of Congress–except the newest ones–support (or don’t support) issues of concern to these veterans. All the Congresspeople receiving As and Bs are Democrats. Your beloved stingy Rethugs, including veterans like John McCain and John Warner, wouldn’t even vote for slightly more funding for Traumatic Brain Injury research. The Repubs mostly earned Ds and Fs (such as previous House Porker Dennis Hastert). So much for supporting the troops! It’s only lip service from the G(reedy)O(ld)(P)erverts.
Checking in hours later… my Makers Mark Manhattan is up my nose, Katy, and worth it!
April 22nd, 2007 at 1:00 am“That dick “Jake†hijacked the name “michael†yesterday.
Comment by Zooey — April 21, 2007″
No zooooooey, it’s the real me looking to make you look foolish!
April 22nd, 2007 at 1:04 amI used the Google… do you suppose this is out Frank Matthews?
Blacks had a hard time competing in the drug arena until the emergence of Frank Matthews. He would become a key supplier in Boston, Philadelphia, Miami, Baltimore, Washington, Atlanta, Chicago, St. Louis, Baton Rouge and Detroit. Matthews headed his operation out of an apartment complex nicknamed “The Ponderosa, the Ponderosa was protected by armed guards as workers cut and bagged the drugs. This operation would eventually cover the entire East Coast. At the height of his power, Matthews operated several drug mills employing more than 100 people. He often strutted around in mink coats. He owned several apartment buildings and owned a fleet of luxury cars. In 1971, he assembled the biggest drug dealers in the country to attend a summit held in Atlanta. The main topic of discussion: how to break mob control on the importation of heroin so that blacks could implement their own shipping services.
“Before any of the suggestions were put in place, Matthews was arrested on drug conspiracy charges. Free on $325,000 bail, Matthews disappeared with $ 20 million dollars and hasn’t been seen since. Meanwhile, Leroy “Nicky” Barnes, based in Harlem, was quickly obtaining power, often referred to as “Hell Up In Harlem” at the height of his power. Barnes began his career as a pusher for an Italian gang in Harlem. He went on his own in 1964. By 1965, Barnes was selling more heroin than the mob. Since he used the mob as drug suppliers, no one ever complained. In late 1965, he was arrested with $500,000 worth of heroin. In prison, he met legendary mob soldier Joseph (Crazy Joe) Gallo. ”
If so, he’s an OOOOOLLLLDDDDD geezer!
April 22nd, 2007 at 1:04 amNot to mention a fascist…
April 22nd, 2007 at 1:04 am“Are you now claiming, Mikey, that the “michael†posting yesterday on the Gonzo sleeps well thread is not you? I think you’ve just been outed as a liar”
I did not post at all yesterday as I was in bed all day with the flu!
April 22nd, 2007 at 1:05 am#
“I wonder how many Americans would favor the minimum wage hike if every Starbuck’s coffee and McDonald’s sandwich also went up $2.10?
Comment by Dan — April 21, 2007″
Dan, they’re liberals! They have never understood basic economics!
Comment by michael — April 21, 2007 @ 8:11 pm
#
Oh look, Michael and Dan are having a conversation with himself. How sweet. Dudes, get a room.
April 22nd, 2007 at 1:07 am“阿呆”
Lora, I am dying to know what that means!
I did not post at all yesterday as I was in bed all day with the flu!
Comment by michael — April 22, 2007 @ 1:05 am
And the dog ate your congressional testimony too, right?
April 22nd, 2007 at 1:14 amFor 12 years, the Republicans ran roughshod with the American people and Congress. Now that the Democrats have control, they still want to have their way. I am sorry, but if Big Business cannot behave itself, then maybe they should not have their tax breaks.
April 22nd, 2007 at 1:19 am” I would also advise you, before you make a further libelous idiot out of yourself, to look at the IAVA (Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America) website for their ratings on how all members of Congress–except the newest ones–support (or don’t support) issues of concern to these veterans. All the Congresspeople receiving As and Bs are Democrats. Your beloved stingy Rethugs, including veterans like John McCain and John Warner, wouldn’t even vote for slightly more funding for Traumatic Brain Injury research. The Repubs mostly earned Ds and Fs (such as previous House Porker Dennis Hastert). So much for supporting the troops! It’s only lip service from the G(reedy)O(ld)(P)erverts.
Comment by Lora — April 22, 2007″
Is that anything like:
liberals lying about flushing the koran down the toilet?
liberals exposing our intelligence gathering methods?
liberals forging military records on a sitting president?
liberals insisting that posed photos from Abu Grhaib be exposed?
liberals accusing our troops of torturing Iraqi women and children?
liberals accusing our troops of being like Nazis?
liberals accusing our troops of holding prisoners in gulag conditions?
liberals stealing classified documents from our archives?
Liberal presidents giving classified nuclear information to the Chinese?
Before you start accusing us of misdeeds, you better clean up your own house! Zoooey? Want to weigh in? Or is this just too complicated?
April 22nd, 2007 at 1:19 am“For 12 years, the Republicans ran roughshod with the American people and Congress.
Comment by Karim — April 22, 2007″
How about explaining that?
April 22nd, 2007 at 1:21 am“Oh look, Michael and Dan are having a conversation with himself. How sweet. Dudes, get a room.
Comment by SKdeA — April 22, 2007″
Nothing intelligent to add?
April 22nd, 2007 at 1:23 amMichael,
April 22nd, 2007 at 1:54 amThere is no proof for much of what you wrote in #114, and you offer none, as well. As for holding prisoners in gulag-like conditions, are you trying to say that holding people for years without any charges and waterboarding them, etc. is a way to treat prisoners that our country’s founding fathers would be proud of? 阿呆： it’s a Japanese word meaning what I think of your “intelligence.”
Been a busy day for me, so I haven’t had time to check in so much, amazed at how a minimum wage thread seems to bring the worst out of the rightards. I guess compassion, and greed don’t mix well. Michael, I hope you are doing well, and the blood vessel on your forehead isn’t ready to pop yet.
I live in a state where the minimum wage is already close to what the federal govt is proposing, and the economy is doing just fine, including the mom and pop stores. I would suggest you enjoy your senile years, and maybe go fishing before you have a heart attack.
Night all.
April 22nd, 2007 at 2:10 amB and S
April 23rd, 2007 at 1:02 pmThe minimum wage should increase WITHOUT tax incentives. For crying out loud, the minimum wage is SO far below the inflationary point when compared to the last increase, there’s NO argument for business owners. They survived last time. And the time before that. And the time before that……
April 23rd, 2007 at 1:04 pmI almost hate to admit it, but in some ways Michael, Frank and Dan are correct in many ways. Now, before you all bite my head off, I am only talking about the companies that can only afford to pay minimum wages. These *should* be the Mom and Pop corner stores where their rents and merchandise are already high. These companies are most likely not going to make a profit in the first few years, as their income will go to more/better merchandise to make their store more attractive to clientele. Let’s be honest, most of the big chains already pay more than the minimum wage (at least they do around here). However, they are wrong in many ways as well. Raising the minimum wage is the right thing to do. The cost of rent, food and gasoline has skyrocketed and people relying on minimum wage most certainly need extra help. However, this still does not help those of us making more than minimum wage, but still not enough to survive on. Instead of mandating a minimum wage increase, we should be insisting on a mandator cost of living increase. Many big companies have stopped giving these, and have lowered pay raises to less than 2% for their employees. For example, let’s say a Starbucks employee is hired at $8/hr (above the new min wage) and after one year goes in for his review. Now the new manager doesn’t really like giving raises, so he gives everyone in the company .25/hr. This is a 3% raise for the person just hired. However, for the guy who has been there 4 years and makes 8.65/hr (because back then he started at $7/hr) it isn’t even 3%. This is a very common problem for people in or around the middle class. Companies know they have the upper hand, as there are not as many good paying jobs, so the employee is reluctant to leave. Especially if there are even close to decent benefits. So, raising the minimum wage is only effective for the people making minimum wage. However, Frank, I suggest you can most of your employees at this point and find three people with good work ethics and people skills. Give them as many hours as they can handle at about 7.50/hour and see how your business fares. Seriously. If you can’t afford them for the entire week, close early on Wed, open late on Thursday or close completely on one day to make up the money. If I walk into a store that is neat and clean and I get treated well by the person behind the counter, I WILL come back to that store. I am sure there are several people looking for part time work in a good environment that could turn your busines around.
Just a thought.
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