Gingrich Blames Virginia Tech Tragedy On Liberalism
Gingrich Blames Virginia Tech Tragedy On Liberalism
In the wake of the 1999 shootings at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado, former House Speaker Newt Gingrich laid the blame for the tragedy at the feet of liberals. Here’s what he said:
“I want to say to the elite of this country – the elite news media, the liberal academic elite, the liberal political elite: I accuse you in Littleton…of being afraid to talk about the mess you have made, and being afraid to take responsibility for things you have done, and instead foisting upon the rest of us pathetic banalities because you don’t have the courage to look at the world you have created.”
On ABC’s This Week, host George Stephanopoulos asked Gingrich if he would apply those same words to the Virginia Tech tragedy. “Yes,” Gingrich said, offering a rambling, nonsensical response that segued into Don Imus and McCain-Feingold campaign finance reform. Watch it:
Gingrich has a history of spinning tragedy for ideological and partisan gain.
- In 1994, after Susan Smith confessed to drowning her two children in South Carolina, Gingrich quickly blamed liberals, saying the only way to avoid similar future incidents was “to vote Republican.”
- After former Rep. Mark Foley (R-FL) was forced to resign over his sexually inappropriate behavior towards House pages, Gingrich declared that conservatives didn’t act to stop Foley because they “would have been accused of gay bashing” by liberals.
- At the Conservative Political Action Conference earlier this year, Gingrich blamed the residents of New Orleans’ 9th ward for “a failure of citizenship,” by being “so uneducated and so unprepared, they literally couldn’t get out of the way of a hurricane.”
In Gingrich’s mind, anything bad that happens can always be traced back to the culture created by liberals.
Transcript:
STEPHANOPOULOS: How about the broader context? After Columbine, you gave a speech where you blamed 35 — blamed the shootings on 35 years of liberalism. You went — you said, “I want to say to the elite of this country, the elite news media, the liberal academic elite, the liberal political elite — I accuse you in Littleton of being afraid to talk about the mess you’ve made and being afraid to take responsibility for the things you have done, and instead foisting on the rest of us pathetic banalities because you don’t have the courage to look at the world you have created.” Do you stand by that prescription today?
GINGRICH: Yes, I think the fact is, if you look at the amount of violence we have in games that young people play at 7, 8, 10, 12, 15 years of age, if you look at the dehumanization, if you look at the fact that we refuse to say that we are, in fact, endowed by our creator, that our rights come from God, that if you kill somebody, you’re committing an act of evil.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But what does that have to do with liberalism?
GINGRICH: Well, who has created a situation ethics, essentially, zone of not being willing to talk about any of these things. Let me carry another example. I strongly supported Imus being dismissed, but I also think the very thing he was dismissed for, which is the use of language which is stunningly degrading of women — the fact, for example, that one of the Halloween costumes this last year was being able to be either a prostitute or a pimp at 10, 11, 12 years of age, buying a costume, and we don’t have any discussion about what’s happened to our culture because while we’re restricting political free speech under McCain-Feingold, we say it’s impossible to restrict vulgar and vicious and anti-human speech. And I would argue that that’s a major component of what’s happened to our culture in the last 40 years.
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Can he blame his infidelity on the Liberals too?
Waiting…
April 22nd, 2007 at 12:05 pmYou forgot one – after a multiple shooting in Chicago, Gingrich blamed Democrats. One of the victims’ parents then put a statement telling New to STFU and stop politicizing the tragedy.
April 22nd, 2007 at 12:08 pmAs it turned out, Susan Smith’s father was a Republican fund-raiser.
Perhaps Gingrich might want to consider the political leanings of Tim McVeigh…
April 22nd, 2007 at 12:11 pmSearching for unfounded excuses…of course to him ‘Liberals’ . He never questions who sold the guns and the ammunition to a ’sick man’…who otherwise should be denied of buying any weapons.
Gingrich using empty words with nothing to back his rant,as long as he injects ‘Liberals’ as a ‘puching bag’ for his silly arguments.
April 22nd, 2007 at 12:12 pmYes, those pesky liberal gun laws certainly added to this tragedy.
April 22nd, 2007 at 12:15 pmHey Newt why did Cho say I died like Jesus Christ? Where is the AGAG thats supposed to protect the children?
Hell, they can’t even protect the paiges from Foley, even going so far as to cover that up.
April 22nd, 2007 at 12:17 pmStupid little sh*t can’t even explain what he is talking about. All these republicans are the same, stupid…the fools of our society, borderline retards, and psychopaths, severely lacking in logic and intellegence, heads ripe with confusion, unable to comprehend the world they live in, so they make obviously confused comments like this, inherent signs of severe confusion and madness.
April 22nd, 2007 at 12:18 pmThis is a riot. Serial adulterer and hyprocrite Newt Gingrich talking about bad morals in this country? Crazy.
Look in the mirrror, Newt.
April 22nd, 2007 at 12:19 pmHa! And I guess Rush Limbaugh should be regulated then by your naively moronic statement.
make Doom illegal but keep machine guns legal. youve really figured it out Newt.
April 22nd, 2007 at 12:20 pmEye of Newt must have one of the ingrediants of his parents’ favorite meal, hence, his warped and wavy thought process. He does his own thinking, dosen’t he?
April 22nd, 2007 at 12:22 pmNewt’s is an illogical response. Has he hit his head recently? A (”zone of not being willing to talk about any of these things”)??? This logic folds back on itself. If anything it is repressive ideological parents who restrict that “zone”- cetainly not someone who is “liberal”—by definition a liberal is tolerant.
And Newt’s own failures? Who gets the blame for for his compassionless bloviatings as exampled in this blog entry?
And why does Stephanopoulus open the door for this slam?
And what is it about grown men named “Newt” and “Scooter” anyway?
April 22nd, 2007 at 12:23 pmYes, because the past 20 years have been acme of liberalism in America, right Newton?
Why can’t we blame the past 7 years of unchallenged Republican rule.
-GSD
April 22nd, 2007 at 12:23 pmSo, this is their strategy? Blame us for their mistakes and messes? They’re really scrapping the bottom of the barrel with that nonsense.
The reality is that conservative Ronnie Raygun broke our mental health system during his two terms.
The Columbine community was a conservative one.
And Timothy McVeigh was a decorated Army hero.
The problem is obviously NOT us.
April 22nd, 2007 at 12:25 pmWell this should give hacks like these the title of Worst Person In the World for the second day in a row after admitted water-carrier Rush’s similar ignorance topped the list Friday. I would ask how anyone can hear them through the foot lodged in their mouth but then it dawned on me of course that they’re always talkin out of their @$$es.
April 22nd, 2007 at 12:26 pm“Can he blame his infidelity on the Liberals too?
Comment by Not Canadian — April 22, 2007 @ 12:05 pm”
LOL…
April 22nd, 2007 at 12:26 pmIn Gingrich’s mind, anything bad that happens can always be traced back to the culture created by liberals.
that is a very crowded field, actually… lots of like-minds there…
kinda funny that that it works both ways… except the libs have facts to back it up… cons can only spout lies…
he is right about one little thing, and i’ll twist it a bit… the elected libs are afraid to talk about gun regulation… they didn’t make the mess, but it’s past time to be talking about cleaning it up…
April 22nd, 2007 at 12:27 pm.
Don’t forget about that murder spree several years ago in Chicaog where a nine months pregnant woman was shot and the foetus ripped from her belly. Gingrich was there right away to blame the killings on liberalism.
Best link I can find: a couple paragraphs down in second section:
http://www.hoover.org/publications/policyreview/3552167.html
April 22nd, 2007 at 12:27 pmAnd why didn’t George S. make the average American’s observation about such absurd generalizations? Suggest that decent thinking people would call them unserious, silly pandering. Mr. S. should have then demanded an apology on behalf of about half of Americans that Mr. Gingrich slandered.
The MSM is not a paid soapbox entitling anyone who appears on it to say whatever stupid things come to mind. The First Amendment requires more than staying mum, especially when stupid people have the notoriety to be taken seriously by those not paying attention. The MSM will never be taken seriously unless it starts doing “reality checks” with the mix of serious thinkers and idiots it chooses to put on air.
April 22nd, 2007 at 12:28 pmThe killing scene could be done by the same killer or others outside the univeristy.
April 22nd, 2007 at 12:28 pmThis killer should not have been stopped from buying guns and ammunitions.
He could have killed people in a restaurant,shopping mall, or anywhere else…
The argument that Gingrich made is so stupid,because killing is not limited to schools.
What if this happened in a restaurant like what happened few years ago in Luby’s Cafereria in Texas….Will Gingrich blame it on liberal restaurant also.
Missing child found in shot croc
POSTED: 5:06 a.m. EDT, April 22, 2007
• Crocodile shot during search for missing 9-year-old contained child’s remains
• Witnesses say child had earlier tormented reptiles in park
• Police hold park keeper, who was absent at time of the attack
BEIJING, China (AP)
“The children shot the animals with catapults and beat them with wooden sticks,” the agency said. “One of the irritated crocodiles bit Liu’s clothes and dragged him into water, where he was eaten by a swarm of crocodiles.”
Don’t torment animals children.
April 22nd, 2007 at 12:30 pmRun Newt Run! You are sure to win over LOTS of people…
April 22nd, 2007 at 12:30 pmSadly, another opportunity is passing for a conversation on Corporations and media enablers not party who cannabalize and evicerate the American citizen and the lingering residue of fear.
April 22nd, 2007 at 12:30 pmAmerica rapidly speeding towards the sewer becasue of the likes of rat Gingrich.
April 22nd, 2007 at 12:30 pmNewt, Reagan and Bushco helped craft social and economic policies that’s sole purpose is to create a elite ultra rich class of republicans that have already destroyed the middle class and want to turn us all into $3.00 an hour slaves.
April 22nd, 2007 at 12:31 pmWe know who the fucking ELITE are in this country you fucking liar Newt.
Oh, yea. This is absolutely the Reich Wing’s strategy. Blame the victim. They’ll be doing it a lot soon after Mr. Bush departs. Imagine the other messes that will then come to light. They will blame them on those who brought them to light. I think you can drop the Mayberry; these guys are all real Machiavellis.
April 22nd, 2007 at 12:31 pmYet another old, white, male, pasty-faced, fat-ass republican making idiotic statments. Keep it up!
April 22nd, 2007 at 12:34 pmHow can anyone approach anything this philandering hypocrite says with any measure of intellectual gravity?
That said, as a member of the “liberal academic elite,” here is my liberal, academic (albeit not scholarly), response: f*ck you, Gingrich.
April 22nd, 2007 at 12:35 pmNewt, Reagan and Bushco have gamed the system for years and destroyed the middle class in order to create a ultra rich rightwing republican ruling class and Newt has the audacity to talk about ELITE?
April 22nd, 2007 at 12:37 pmWhen is this little sociopath finally going to disappear?
Liberlism causes E-Bay ammunition. 2nd amendment rulez eh newtie
April 22nd, 2007 at 12:38 pmWasn’t Susan Smith’s stepfather the chairman of the Virginia Republican party at one point? It sounds par for the course: a high-ranking GOP member who repeatedly rapes his young stepdaughter.
April 22nd, 2007 at 12:38 pm“BLAME CLINTON!!!”
“BLAME THE LIBERALS!!!”
“BLAME THE DEMOCRATS!!!”
The same old shit from hypocritical repugs like Gingrich.
April 22nd, 2007 at 12:39 pm#25
Yet another old, white, male, pasty-faced, fat-ass republican making idiotic statments. Keep it up!
April 22nd, 2007 at 12:42 pmExactly!
“Missing child found in shot croc
Comment by ForTruth — April 22, 2007 @ 12:30 pm”
It pisses me off when animals are killed for following their instincts and eating what is available. Humans who want to put themselves in front of a hungry animal, and then abuse it, deserve to be eaten. In fact, there are more stupid people who need to be some carnivore’s lunch… It’s called Darwinism for a reason…
April 22nd, 2007 at 12:42 pm“Mankind’s true moral test, its fundamental test (which lies deeply buried from view), consists of its attitude towards those who are at its mercy: animals. And in this respect mankind has suffered a fundamental debacle, a debacle so fundamental that all others stem from it.”
April 22nd, 2007 at 12:43 pm– Milan Kundera
No different, really, than Slippery Joe Biden blaming it on conservatism.
http://news.bostonherald.com/editorial/view.bg?articleid=195873&srvc=home
Seems to be plenty of this idiocy going around on both sides of the aisle.
April 22nd, 2007 at 12:48 pmI still can’t figure out why Newton gets so much air time and attention.
April 22nd, 2007 at 12:48 pm.. and he knows his audience… intellectually lazy, morally bankrupt, stupid and what repubs call “patriotic” … double digit iq and he knows what to feed them
April 22nd, 2007 at 12:51 pm“What if this happened in a restaurant like what happened few years ago in Luby’s Cafereria in Texas….Will Gingrich blame it on liberal restaurant also.”
I still remember one from my childhood, a shooting at a McDonald’s in San Ysidro outside of San Diego over 20 years ago, something like 19 people were killed. I’m sure he would have blamed that on liberals too if he had a stage back then. Heck, why stop there? There was a plane crash in San Diego in 78, when it was clipped by a Cessna and plummeted into a neigborhood, killed about 140 people give or take. Was that a liberal’s fault too?
OK, I admit I’m getting a little ridiculous invoking 20-30 year old tragedies. Then again, people who I won’t name come on here bringing up Carter when trying to defend Gone-zo so maybe I’m not stretching.
April 22nd, 2007 at 12:52 pmNewt is a goof. . . please run for president. . . . all the idiots need a candidate.
April 22nd, 2007 at 12:54 pmWhy are politicians always sought out for commentary on social issues? Couldn’t ABC find some experts in social science, even with opposing views, to give us real information about social problems? I’m sick to death of hearing these clowns spew their hypocritical nonsense. Vote Republican and solve all of the worlds ills. Give me an “F”ing break! Goddamn bloviating idiots!
April 22nd, 2007 at 12:55 pmIf a chicken crosses the road……or …..If the chicken does NOT cross the road………….. well, those are just some very good reasons to vote Republican in the next elections.
You can’t blame them though. If it’s not misinformation, religion, downright lies, fear and hate that they run on, what are they supposed to run on……… their performance record??
April 22nd, 2007 at 12:56 pmAnd then he later talked about how awful it is we have such divisive partisanship.
This man has done much to harm our country.
April 22nd, 2007 at 12:56 pmNo different, really, than Slippery Joe Biden blaming it on conservatism.
http://news.bostonherald.com/ editorial/ view.bg?articleid=195873&srvc=home
Seems to be plenty of this idiocy going around on both sides of the aisle.
Comment by Jeanie D. — April 22, 2007 @ 12:48 pm
Ah, the good ole out of context quote. Now, from the real article:
Biden, the Senate Foreign Relations committee chairman, called for military action to resolve the killing in Darfur and promoted his plan for peace in Iraq that would divide the country along ethnic lines.
He said Republicans – from former House Speaker Newt Gingrich to President Bush and White House political adviser Karl Rove – had “wallowed in the politics of polarization.”
“I would argue, since 1994 with the Gingrich revolution, just take a look at Iraq, Venezuela, Katrina, what’s gone down at Virginia Tech, Darfur, Imus. Take a look. This didn’t happen accidentally, all these things,” he said.
Clearly the implication here is that the GOP has polarized the politics of all these issues. Let me know when Biden accuses the victims of “not being me.” Then we can discuss the equal share of idiocy on both sides.
April 22nd, 2007 at 1:00 pmWhat a disgusting alleged human being. Reminds me of DeLay, Rove, Bolton and any of the dozens of other sociopath creeps that surround Amerika’s Fuhrer.
April 22nd, 2007 at 1:03 pmA few days ago republicans were blaming this massacre on gun-free school zones, which George Bush fully supports. Why aren’t they blaming George Bush?
April 22nd, 2007 at 1:04 pmOh well he’ll regret that his party did not have a better approach to ending terror. What a weird dude.
April 22nd, 2007 at 1:08 pmEverything Newt the repitle rails against is thrown right back into the REligious0right’s backing of the Corporatist agenda. Why is society crumbling, well go ask FOx TV why THEY put on the most degrading shows. Go ask the CORPORATE games makers why THEY make the games where kids can beat the shit out of hooker, go ask the costume makers why THEY make the hooker and pimp costumes? His ridiculous arguments are so OOF THE MARK that they are laughable.
And even IF liberalism was to blame for these tragedies or problems, then LIBERALISM is also to be COMMENDED for its betterment of society as a whole. We have hospitals BECAUSE of liberalism. We have philanthropy BECAUSE of liberalism, we have Fire Departments BECAUSE of Liberalism, and on and on.
Unbridled Whorporatism leads to dicatorship, NOT a viable society.
Newt lives under the rock of Christo-fascism, what do you expect from him. Go get raptured Newt.
April 22nd, 2007 at 1:13 pmWell, Republicans have been blaming the Modern World now for nearly 500 years. Blame Galileo, Newton, Darwin, Einstein, Frazer, Pavlov, Bohrs, and Keynes. Republicans have substituted Creationism for Science and Monopoly Capitalism for Political Economics. Both Creationism and Monopoly Capitalism require blind faith to support their tenets as their claims are without observational merit.
Republicans such as Newt, Rush, Bill, and others claim to have exclusive rights to Family Values. This, despite multiple divorces, addiction to drugs, gambling, and alcohol, and various ethical lapses involving cash, the truth, and decency. However, a true believer will see what isn’t there and will not see what is there.
April 22nd, 2007 at 1:13 pmYep, because you know, liberals are totally against things like gun control
And, oh look, liberals totally oppose funding public healthcare, particularly for things like mental health.
And yeah, liberals really, really ratcheted up the “Violence as an acceptable response to someone not liking you, even if that someone isn’t even particularly doing anything about it” bit when they started the Iraq war.
Of course, the terrible, evil liberals were also, at that very same time, playing up America’s fear of terrorism in order to politically exploit 9/11.
Seen the video? That boy seriously went to church, the dirty liberal.
I could go on an on, but frankly pretending to be retarded enough to be a troll is kind of boring.
April 22nd, 2007 at 1:13 pmOh my gosh … I do pray very hard that he is the republican nominee for president … please God make him the nominee. Please Please Please !!!
April 22nd, 2007 at 1:15 pmRepublicans (and conservatives) have to blame and attack because they have nothing to stand on. Every issue they come up hypocritical: like calling yourself pro-life but supporting the death penalty; calling yourself conservative but supporting ‘pre-emptive war’; condemning someone for infidelity while your cheating on your wife.
Self-proclaimed ‘conservatives’ have a false sence of moral superiority. They have that because they don’t apply the same standards to themselves that they apply to all their perceived enemies. That’s the double standard. You don’t have to go back but a few years to find these guys saying the exact opposite things they said in support of Bush as a way to oppose Clinton.
This latest tide of ‘conservatism’ has set us (as a country) back about 50 years. It is the vain, manipulative, authoritarian, self-rightous, bigotry of ‘conservatives’ that is destroying our country.
April 22nd, 2007 at 1:17 pmBlame the liburals! Blame Obama! Blame the Clintons! Blame the ‘liberal media! Blame the ACLU! Blame…….!(fill in the blank). Sarcasm supreme!
April 22nd, 2007 at 1:18 pmOh yeah, and
April 22nd, 2007 at 1:20 pmFCK Newt! Not worth the oxygen he’s breathing fcking GdDamn hypocrit ass.
Newt is a moron…always has been..always will be….I can’t believe this ass hat still gets media attention today…He, his views, and his hypocracy have been marginalized a very long time ago. I’ve always been utterly embarassed this clown is from my home state…there’s no better correlation that exemplifies this than the one to elected officials from the state of GA to the state consistantly being one of the worst U.S. states in education.
April 22nd, 2007 at 1:25 pmNo hablo ingles. Como se dice en espanol?
April 22nd, 2007 at 1:27 pmOh my gosh … I do pray very hard that he is the republican nominee for president … please God make him the nominee. Please Please Please !!!
Comment by G. Smith
Make it so….oh, please make it so. :D
April 22nd, 2007 at 1:28 pmHitler operated the same way.
April 22nd, 2007 at 1:31 pmThat’s how he was able to round up all the Jews, gypsies, gays, infirm and gas them.
He convinced the German people that these “inferior” people were responsible for everything that was bad in Germany.
This latest tide of ‘conservatism’ has set us (as a country) back about 50 years. … destroying our country.
Comment by Bob — April 22, 2007 @ 1:17 pm
hear, hear…
so many good comments this morning!
April 22nd, 2007 at 1:36 pmSomewhere, a used car lot is missing a salesman.
This piece of shit deserves to be in prison along with the rest of the criminals running the asylum.
They’re all guilty of taking bribes, and they’re all compromised…easy marks for blackmail.
April 22nd, 2007 at 1:41 pmI blame Newt Gingrich for being a dick.
April 22nd, 2007 at 1:46 pmDisgraced, ex-GOP Congressman Tom DeLay blames lack of principles and moral character on “liberals,” too.
April 22nd, 2007 at 1:52 pmSpin this Newt: Posada Carriles and Orlando Bosch… Now the two of them must certainly be a liberal plot to spawn more evil on the world.
April 22nd, 2007 at 1:54 pmI got a question for you this morning. How can anyone understand a word Rush Gingrich says, seeing how far up his own rear end he tends to keep his head?
April 22nd, 2007 at 1:55 pmso blame liberals for someone who made videotapes where he dressed up like a blackwater employee and compared himself to jesus?
April 22nd, 2007 at 2:03 pm.
Soft-spoken Newt is the worst and most dangerous kind of right-wing ideologue. He sounds so reasonable – as long as you don’t actually listen to what he’s saying.
When I watch or listen to him, I’m reminded of the Wannsee Conference and how horrible ideas can be presented with such formality and calmness.
.
April 22nd, 2007 at 2:07 pmI blame liberals for forcing me to serve my wife divorce papers while bedridden and suffering from cancer. [/Gingrich]
April 22nd, 2007 at 2:08 pmWhat a slimeball. This is the kind of crap that is destroying America.
April 22nd, 2007 at 2:12 pmI blame liberals for forcing me to serve my wife divorce papers while bedridden and suffering from cancer. [/Gingrich]
Comment by AkaDad
I’m so sorry I made you do that, Newtie. Your wives betrayed you in the worst possible manner, by becoming ill. You are truly long suffering.
April 22nd, 2007 at 2:15 pm/sarcasm
Just an incoherent rant. Makes no sense, just what can be expected from these neocon retards.
April 22nd, 2007 at 2:16 pmNotice how when it is just Newt that the trolls don’t bother to show up and post anything is his defense, but if any current member of the Bush administration is criticized here, there is a prompt and determined effort by one or more trolls to hijack the thread?
April 22nd, 2007 at 2:18 pmI accuse Newt Gingrich of:
- the Columbine massacre,
- drowning Susan Smith’s children,
- sodomizing children in the US House of Representatives and
- the Virginia Tech massacre.
For America’s sake, please vote Democratic.
April 22nd, 2007 at 2:22 pmThe real question is whom is booking Newt to advertise this nonesense? Why?
April 22nd, 2007 at 2:29 pmWe need to elect Newt because he is the only candidate who will tackle what really matters.
The plight and oppression of the white man.
April 22nd, 2007 at 2:37 pmTypical of the little lies party.
Move along folks nothing to see or hear just another RWN ranting foolishly away about totally unrelated subjects. Ignore the big giant head, move along folks. It’s the same insane MO as the last decade. The Republicans in charge are in no way responsible for anything whatsoever.
Vote Republican the irresponsible, fiscally and morally defunct party of valueless voters and Darvos.
April 22nd, 2007 at 2:40 pmHow does such a low life like Gingrich continue to be invited to these shows?
Who cares what this fool and hypocrite thinks? His own party booted him out of his leadership position so he quit and went home.
April 22nd, 2007 at 2:50 pm“The real question is whom is booking Newt to advertise this nonesense? Why?”
Comment by dono
EXACTAMUNDO!
I say give Newt and those of his ilk all the free time they want – on FOX, Rush, Hannity and any other Rovian Ministry of Propaganda media outlet that’ll have them.
April 22nd, 2007 at 2:50 pmI think he also said something like this wouldn’t have happened if students and teachers were armed – just before he said the schools should be gun free.
April 22nd, 2007 at 2:57 pmcomment by Zooey @ 2:15 Zooey; I LOVE your uppity sarcasm. You go girl!
April 22nd, 2007 at 3:05 pmI think he also said something like this wouldn’t have happened if students and teachers were armed – just before he said the schools should be gun free.
Comment by Marie — April 22, 2007 @ 2:57 pm
That must have been right after I changed channels. And this is the Sunday morning show I stay home to watch, usually. Thanks, George.
April 22nd, 2007 at 3:26 pmcomment by Zooey @ 2:15 Zooey; I LOVE your uppity sarcasm. You go girl!
Comment by Uncle Ho
**blush**
April 22nd, 2007 at 3:44 pmWhat do you expect from Newt? Disappointed (again) with ABC, that gasbag shouldn’t wander from FAUXews.
April 22nd, 2007 at 3:48 pmMatt notes: “In Gingrich’s mind, anything bad that happens can always be traced back to the culture created by liberals.”
No Matt, NOT everything bad that happens can be traced to liberals. I DO NOT blame Liberals for any of the following:
Tsunamis, earthquakes, tornadoes or hurricanes.
The criminal behaviour of Randy “Duke” Cunningham.
Ted Haggard’s perversions and drug use.
Mark Foley’s pedophiliac stalking.
Richard Nixon’s paranoia.
I do blame the following on a “culture created by liberals:
The absurd egos of Baby Boomers.
The rampant acceptance of illegitimacy.
A decline in “good manners”.
The coarsening of our movies, music and language.
The increase in the “victim/excuse” mentality .
The moral relativism of the Left.
The denigration of many fathers.
The excuses of many mothers.
As you can see Matt, you may want to quit being so defensive with your sweeping statements…….
April 22nd, 2007 at 3:55 pmAnother GOP troglodyte proving he is out of touch with reality.
April 22nd, 2007 at 4:05 pmComment by valiant venus — April 22, 2007 @ 3:55 pm
There is something seriously wrong with a female who claims to be a 28% moron, who supports the troglodyte party. Think about it, mAnn Coulter and Valient Venus? Who can take that non-sense serious.
April 22nd, 2007 at 4:07 pmWhy is this multi x’s adulterer even allowed to come on shows and make statements regarding morality? Didn’t he serve one of his wives divorce papers at the time she was recovering from surgery for cancer?
April 22nd, 2007 at 4:18 pmWhy are we not seeing Pelosi, Reid and other fine Democratic leaders on the Sunday shows?
A question for self-absorbed liberals:
Would you rather send your child to school in an atmosphere where the most hideous violations included, gum chewing, running in the halls etc.
-OR-
To a school where kids can buy and use drugs listen to their teacher get cursed, and carry weapons to protect themselves.
Then tell me how GREAT liberal culture is and who the knuckle draggers really are……Remember, you can always click your ruby slippers…..
April 22nd, 2007 at 4:19 pmI do blame the following on a “culture created by liberals:
The absurd egos of Baby Boomers.
-Of which roughly 50% are republicans.
The rampant acceptance of illegitimacy.
-Illegitimate what?
A decline in “good mannersâ€.
-From the party who’s 2nd in command told a Senator to go fuck themselves on the Senate floor.
The coarsening of our movies, music and language.
-You mean the movies and music that are produced by companies like Fox, owned by Rupert Murdoch, a sweetheart of the right. For language, refer to the previous point.
The increase in the “victim/excuse†mentality.
-Perhaps you should instead seek out the reason that there are more actual victims.
The moral relativism of the Left.
-Everything is relative. I’ll take that over the moral hypocrisy of the right.
The denigration of many fathers.
The excuses of many mothers.
-These are too vague to respond to.
April 22nd, 2007 at 4:20 pmThen tell me how GREAT liberal culture is and who the knuckle draggers really are……Remember, you can always click your ruby slippers…..
Comment by valiant venus — April 22, 2007 @ 4:19 pm
More aimless blathers from her self-righteousness.
April 22nd, 2007 at 4:24 pmThese killing sprees are the result of a culture where right-wing fascists blame caring, compassionate people for all the illness in the societ produced by right-wing fascists who only love money. Money uber alles.
Meanwhile the community of people suffers and dies from neglect, poverty, long prison terms for petty crimes like marijuana possession, lack of affordable, good health care.
The right-wing fascists don’t believe in the Constitution where it says the purpose of the government is to provide for the general welfare.
The right-wing fascists only believe in welfare for the rich, for corporations, and for the military. Those groups can live off the taxpayer dollar, but the rest of us can’t because then it would be socialism. Somehow it’s not socialism when all those retired military and contractors get to shop at the PX and get everything cut rate.
End the standing army, which we did not have prior to WWII and it will solve most of our current problems.
April 22nd, 2007 at 4:26 pm85 valiant venus
I’m not sure why you and some want to put a label on the tragic acts we see going on…. liberals fault or conservatives fault? If we are going to do that, then, wouldn’t the Bush administration and his supporters absolutely be the culture of KILLING? The culture of increased poverty, the culture of decreased health car including MENTAL HEALTH CARE… put all that together and what do you have?
April 22nd, 2007 at 4:31 pmright-wing fascists
April 22nd, 2007 at 4:33 pmi lost a false choice. has anyone seen a false choice around here?
April 22nd, 2007 at 4:33 pmright-wing
April 22nd, 2007 at 4:33 pmright
April 22nd, 2007 at 4:34 pmr
April 22nd, 2007 at 4:34 pmI do blame the following on a “culture created by liberals:
The absurd egos of Baby Boomers.
-Of which roughly half are Republicans. You don’t make any sense.
The rampant acceptance of illegitimacy.
-Illegitimacy of what? Again, no sense here.
A decline in “good mannersâ€.
-From the party who’s second in command told someone to go f*** themselves on the Senate floor and who’s first in command regularly passes gas in front of guests. Nice manners.
The coarsening of our movies, music and language.
-You mean the movies and music produced by large corporations such as Fox, owned by Rupert Murdoch, sweetheart of the right. For language, see the previous point.
The increase in the “victim/excuse†mentality .
-Perhaps instead you should try to find out why there are more real victims.
The moral relativism of the Left.
-Please define moral relativism as you use it here. However you define it, I’ll take it over the moral hyprocrisy of the pro-life, pro-death penalty stance of the right.
The denigration of many fathers.
The excuses of many mothers.
-These are too vague to respond to. Please refine your point.
As you can see Matt, you may want to quit being so defensive with your sweeping statements…….
Comment by valiant venus — April 22, 2007 @ 3:55 pm
April 22nd, 2007 at 4:34 pmRight-wing fascists blame liberals for all the problems right-wing fascists cause in their pursuit of money.
April 22nd, 2007 at 4:35 pmband wagon time and so here comes newt
April 22nd, 2007 at 4:38 pm“More aimless blathers from her self-righteousness.”
Comment by erock
No substantive argument – no defense of “liberal” culture – no surprise….
April 22nd, 2007 at 4:39 pmRight-wing fascists would rather through someone in jail for a petty crime so the other right-wing fascists who have the prison contract can make millions. Meanwhile all those people wasting away in jail are used as slave labor for right-wing fascist corporations. They want to create in the US what the Chinese communists created in China, a whole country of slave-waged workers – destroy the unions so people are forced to work for nothing, then throw them in jail and make the work for even less when they end up on the streets struggling to survive.
It’s an old game, and the right-wing fascists are just sharpening their skills as slave masters. They are perfecting the AUshwitz model of slave labor camp. Now instead of starving people to death by not feeding them as they whip them to work, they give them just enough to eat in order to leave out their usefulness.
April 22nd, 2007 at 4:41 pmNewter,
Here in Littleton, a largely GOP community, we’d like to kick your ass.
April 22nd, 2007 at 4:41 pmPardonl your chicken-hawk ass.
April 22nd, 2007 at 4:42 pm. . . or perhaps your wing nuts.
April 22nd, 2007 at 4:43 pmTHis is right-wing fascism at its best
Incarceration May Not Work, but it Sure Can Be Profitable
Anna Mundow
Article Courtesy of Toward Freedom Online
Beeville, Texas: 4.30 a.m.
One by one the bosses clip-clop over to one of the guard towers that surround the prison. They chat for a while among themselves, waiting amiably on horseback. Above them, the picket guard attaches a rope to a plastic milk crate, then lowers the crate over the side. Inside the crate are the bosses’ guns.
They are .357 Magnums, and the bosses are authorized to shoot to kill. When the crate reaches saddle height, each boss dips in and grabs one. There is one more guard on horseback, and he stays aloof from the others. He is known as the Highrider, and he is armed not with a pistol, but with a rifle: a .30-30 capable of picking off a running inmate at several hundred yards.
Incarceration May Not Work, but it Sure Can Be Profitable
Anna Mundow
Article Courtesy of Toward Freedom Online
“The inmates line up two by two for their work detail. They have been awake since 3.30 a.m., the start of their morning feeding…. For hours, the men will pound the ground, clearing acres of land in a process known as flatweeding. To pass the time, the inmates, nearly half of whom are black, sing work songs. This is old music, handed down from generation to generation of convicts. Some of it dates back to the days of the plantation.
April 22nd, 2007 at 4:45 pmhttp://www.viperrecords.com/activism/prisonbis.shtml
The American Gulag, brought to you by right-wing fascists
Texas Prison Camp Future American Gulag?
Detention facility currently holds as many as 200 children incarcerated after midnight arrests
Paul Joseph Watson & Alex Jones
Prison Planet
Monday, January 8, 2007
A detention camp in Taylor Texas that currently holds hundreds of rebuffed asylum seekers who legally entered the country, half of which are children swept up in midnight raids, is a potential prime location for the enforced transfer of American citizens during a time of national emergency.
April 22nd, 2007 at 4:47 pmNewt, you like guns? We’ll fire you out of a cannon over Columbine.
April 22nd, 2007 at 4:48 pmConservative cutbacks in action
April 01, 2004
Psychiatric Times April 2004 Vol. XXI Issue 4
In Virginia, a state agency charged with the protection and oversight of the disabled has filed a lawsuit charging that state-run mental hospitals are neglecting patients. In Florida, the North Broward Hospital District has stopped paying for psychotropic drugs for indigent patients. In Missouri, the state mental health department plans to shut down a treatment center and a psychiatric rehabilitation hospital to save money. In California, proposed cuts in the state’s budget will force counties to shut down mental health facilities despite legal mandates to provide care.
Now remind us how liberalism causes mass murder by the mentally ill.
April 22nd, 2007 at 4:51 pm#88 – “The culture of increased poverty, the culture of decreased health car including MENTAL HEALTH CARE… put all that together and what do you have?” Comment by had enough
Dear HE – Fair questions. The increase in poverty can be attributed to an increase in out of wedlock births. (You do not mention the 928,000 new millionaires who have emerged from the middle class.)
The mental health crisis in America ca be laid directly at the feet of the ACLU who sued the Reagan administration and Rudy Guiliani (when he was mayor of NYC) to allow the wholesale release of patients from mental institutions.
The culture of poverty is exacerbated by a welfare Uncle Sam who substitutes for a real Dad. What is really sad is the fact certain political interests MUST maintain a poor underclass. These poor voters generally support liberals. Conservatives want all boats to rise with the tide – we call them customers….
April 22nd, 2007 at 4:52 pmTell us about how liberalism causes all these cutbacks for mental health. TELL US!!!!!!
From Maine to Oregon, from West Virginia to Texas, mental health services are being curtailed as bureaucrats and lawmakers try to stretch fewer dollars across an increasingly large, underserved population.
State tax revenues per capita declined 7.4% in fiscal 2002. In a Kaiser Commission on Medicaid and the Uninsured issue paper titled “Is the State Fiscal Crisis Over? A 2004 State Budget Update,” Donald Boyd, Ph.D., and Victoria Wachino, MMP, wrote, “While the national recession was fairly mild, the falloff in state tax revenues was severe and led to daunting state budget shortfalls.” They continued, “The big falloff in state tax revenue in 2002 means that it will take states some time to return to pre-2002 tax levels, and the recent modest growth in state tax revenues is far from sufficient to do that.” Boyd is director of the Fiscal Studies Program at the Rockefeller Institute of Gov-ernment, and Wachino is associate director of the Kaiser Commission on Medicaid and the Uninsured.
April 22nd, 2007 at 4:53 pmhttp://www.psychiatrictimes.com/p040401a.html
Just to CLARIFY – while I think Newt Gingrinch is an interesting historian, I find his moral compass on a par with Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and Bill Clinton – he doesn’t speak for many conservatives….
April 22nd, 2007 at 4:55 pmWelfare, you want to talk about welfare
HALLIBURTON has stolen billions BILLIONS of taxpayer dollars.
If you want to look for the cause of the collapse of our health system, and the impoverishment of our citizenry
HALLIBURTON and all the other corporate and military contractors who are bilking, stealing, billions and destroying our country. DESTROYING it.
April 22nd, 2007 at 4:56 pmANd all you can say is liberalism is the cause. WHAT A F”KING JOKE that would be funny if it wasn’t so outrageous and sickening./
The fact that Gingrich can easily get on TV and spout such nonsense is virtually conclusive proof that the MSM is largely owned and run by the right. If a liberal had said something similar about conservatives he would have been challenged immediately and continuously for the next several months.
April 22nd, 2007 at 4:58 pm“Conservatives want all boats to rise with the tide – we call them customers….”
i think the southern strategy was the exact opposite of that.
April 22nd, 2007 at 4:59 pmBuckets, presumably, that would be Tyler, not Taylor. You don’t know what you’re ranting about . . . but if it feels good – do it.
April 22nd, 2007 at 4:59 pmAnd, like, where do we find this nostalgic school, valiant venus? In Norman Rockwell illustrations?
It seems to me that the drug of choice in high schools over 50 years ago was alcohol. That belligerent kids didn’t need to put up with teachers because they could simply drop out and find good paying manual labor. And, in case you forgot, it’s liberals who are trying to take weapons out of the hands of children.
Actually, you can find your model of good mannered children who respect their teachers and don’t do hard drugs. It’s called Europe. And there’s a direct correlation between how much time children spend with their families and how they behave. Which is why British children –who have a more American model of parenting– are the worst behaved in Europe. Whereas the French and Italian families are likely to very close-knit and caring. And guess what? These are countries which, by American standards, are very liberal (universal health care, gun control, planned economies, subsidized university, pro-choice, etc) even if they have elected a conservative government.
Wake up. The Neo-con ideal is to have saps dreaming of the old swimming hole and pretending to be Tom Sawyer while the big multi-nationals pollute land, sea, and air. There are no Family Values in the Neo-con vision. It’s all minimum wage work and indentured slavery.
April 22nd, 2007 at 4:59 pmHere’s Conservative greed and corruption at work
“In one bizarre incident, a newspaper in Salt Lake City reported that one of the suspects in the sensational kidnapping of teen-ager Elizabeth Smart had been ordered into the forensic unit of the state mental hospital for treatment prior to facing trial, but was detained in a county jail instead because at least 10 other suspected criminals were lined up ahead of her waiting for beds in the hospital. The waiting list developed after the state closed one wing of the hospital in 2002 to save $1.7 million a year, according to the newspaper.”
First the right-wing fascists outsource your job so the big shots can pocket billions of their un-earned income, then when you can’t pay your mortgage because you’ve lost your job, they force you into sub-standard housing with the rest of the poor and mentally deranged. Where you go crazy fearing for the security of your children as the police play round up and lock up every poor teenager they can find to feed the prison industrial complex.
April 22nd, 2007 at 5:01 pmTexan
Well you can read that’s surprising considering the pathetic state of Texas education. I know I live there.
April 22nd, 2007 at 5:03 pmTexan
April 22nd, 2007 at 5:06 pmOne of my ancestors was Brigadier Bullis, the same Bullis that Camp Bullis in San Antonio is named after. So I know my right-wing fascists. I have a whole family of ‘em. So the fact that I mistyped Tyler doesn’t mean squat. I type fast and I don’t worry about little things like that. So take the plug out of your ass and loosen up.
Newt Gingrich was Intimately involved in the planning for operation Iraqi Freedom. Along with the other neocons, he sat in on many meetings to plan the toppling of Saddam and its aftermath. Obviously his vision and judgement were divorced from reality. So why should anyone take his comments seriously??? ABC should have asked him that.
April 22nd, 2007 at 5:07 pmBuckets, don’t let facts get in your way. . . . just rant! Fun for all!
April 22nd, 2007 at 5:08 pmBuckets,
Your a reader too!
April 22nd, 2007 at 5:09 pm#81
It’s sad that certain individuals who repeatedly post here are ignorant about liberalism. It’s even sadder that they have no desire to rectify their ignorance by learning about it. After all, attacking a fiction of one’s own mind by persisting in the illusion that it’s fact is the best way to avoid the painful activity of thinking. But this pathetic situation shouldn’t surprise anyone, for those who are so ignorant as not to be aware of their own ignorance are the least able to distinguish fact from fiction, truth from error, and knowledge from ignorance. Socrates realized this about 2,500 years ago, some still haven’t realized it, and others never will.
Since I teach liberalism among my courses, I’d be happy to invite said individuals to attend and learn why they, and Mr. Gingrich, have no understanding of liberalism.
This post has been brought to you by a professor of philosophy in the interest of elevating public discourse by improving people’s reasoning skills and intellectual and moral integrity.
April 22nd, 2007 at 5:09 pmAll Newt Gingrich knows how to do is how to torment his wives by serving them with divorce papers while their dying from breast cancer in the hospital, or by having affairs.
It’s just sickening that people like Newt Gingrich feel they have the right to even speak such drivel.
April 22nd, 2007 at 5:11 pmBuckets,
My great, great, great grand daddy was the first Texas Supreme Court Justice. He was appointed by Sam Houston. That doesn’t make me a wizard or permit me, like so many polls, to just make Frito go “poof.”
April 22nd, 2007 at 5:12 pmTexan
Where are your facts.
Oh right, you don’t have any. Just attacks.
I will ignore your stupidity now. YOu’re just another right-wing fascist infecting Texas.
April 22nd, 2007 at 5:12 pmANother example of Conservativism, greed, and corruption. Putting people to death no matter what you have to do – falsify evidence, find two people guilty of the same crime, a crime in which there was only one perpetrator, and put both to death.
It’s not liberalism that causes mass murder, it’s the policies and corruption of the right-wing Conservatives and their corporate syphons stealing the money and destroying our society. But they don’t care they just blame it on the liberals.
A STATE OF DENIAL:
TEXAS JUSTICE AND THE DEATH PENALTY
Texas prosecutors freely engage in tactics that other jurisdictions have found violate due process. In multiple-defendant cases, for example, Texas prosecutors have presented irreconcilably inconsistent theories of the same crime: to the first jury, the prosecutor presents evidence and argument that ‘A’ shot the victim while ‘B’ stood by; in a later trial to a different jury, the same prosecutor presents evidence and argument that ‘B’ shot the victim, while ‘A’ stood by.
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=19&did=221
April 22nd, 2007 at 5:19 pmYeah, you and dubyal, stay the course: war is going well; gonzales is good; god is great; remember 9/11 . . .oh yeah . . . doubts creeping in . . . where’s Rove?
April 22nd, 2007 at 5:20 pmGingrich is…
…just a “HO” sic…
April 22nd, 2007 at 5:21 pmHere’s another Conservative moment – murdering the mentally retarded
“On the morning of May 6, 1997, Governor George W. Bush signed his name to a confidential three-page memorandum from his legal counsel, Alberto R. Gonzales, and placed a bold black check mark next to a single word: DENY. It was the twenty-ninth time a death-row inmate’s plea for clemency had been denied in the twenty-eight months since Bush had been sworn in. In this case Bush’s signature led, shortly after 6:00 P.M. on the very same day, to the execution of Terry Washington, a mentally retarded thirty-three-year-old man with the communication skills of a seven-year-old. ”
April 22nd, 2007 at 5:21 pmhttp://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200307/berlow
Buckets, you’ve gotta be an inmate.
April 22nd, 2007 at 5:21 pmHey Gingrich, I bet I can find a way to blame everthing that is wrong with America on the rightwing nuts like you.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
April 22nd, 2007 at 5:21 pm#94 – I’ll address your points S-L-O-W-L-Y in hopes you’ll catch on.
(Re: Self centered Boomers)”-Of which roughly half are Republicans. You don’t make any sense.”
*****I don’t CARE if they are Repubs, Martians or Greens. I detest the self-absorbed who think their contribution to societal mayhem was a “great achievement”.
“-Illegitimacy of what? Again, no sense here.”
***Only to the moral relativist. I am talking about the tragedy SO many children do not have two married parents. (Interesting studies of prison inmates and generational welfare MIGHT open your eyes to the necessity of traditional families.)
“A decline in “good mannersâ€.”
***Dick Cheney was rude to tell Patrick Leahy what he did. That said – the manners of TOOOO many children and teens (as seen in schools,malls and supermarkets in the country) is disgusting and vulgar.
“Please define moral relativism as you use it here. However you define it, I’ll take it over the moral hyprocrisy of the pro-life, pro-death penalty stance of the right.”
****As a pro-life anti-death penalty conservative, you should know many believe as I do. However, my pro-death penalty friends who are anti-abortio make an excellent point. As one friend said, “One death s earned – the other is innocent.” I am opposed to the death penalty as I have a mortal fear of deadly mistakes in the courtroom.
“The denigration of many fathers.
The excuses of many mothers.”
****Feminists declared no need for dads – and many guys said “Thanks!!” In fact children need the input and care of both mothers and fathers. Naturally, there are circumstances (death of a spouse, abuse by a spouse, addiction of a spouse, etc.) in which we find single parent homes preferable. But the culture that constantly makes fun of the idiot father (”The Simpsons”)or the freak father (”American Beauty”) is like Chinese water torture – it takes a toll.
As for mom’s – I am sick to death of teachers, society, etc. putting up with hovering “helicopter” moms. These moms make every excuse for their poorly behaved or poorly achieving child. They micro-manage their kids lives so much so that children develope little imaginative skills.
Plese take the following as constructive criticism: EVERY retort you offered has been said here by someone at different times. I normally do not have the time to waste on yet another reiteration….
I’ll check back later to read your “clever” criticism…Who knows – you might shock me for once and not leap to your predictable conclusions!
April 22nd, 2007 at 5:22 pmBut here’s the real face of Conservatives
Prescott Sheldon Bush — Best known for serving in the US armed forces in Arizona during WWI spent defacing Geronimo’s grave and grave-robbing the skull for his germanic secret piracy club “Skull and Bones Society” headquartered at Yale, University. [22] [23] [24] What he is not famous for was his financier banker support of Adolph Hitler, the Nazi Storm Troopers, Auschwitz and death camps. In his quest to get rich Prescott Bush collaborated with the Nazis before war broke out and through the year after Pearl Harbor.
April 22nd, 2007 at 5:27 pmWhere are Jake and Michael? Guess the RNC gives them Sunday off to go to church.
April 22nd, 2007 at 5:29 pmHere’s the real face of COnservatives. Liberalism ain’t got nothin’ on this
October 9, 2002
IBM and Auschwitz
The infamous Auschwitz tattoo began as an IBM number.
In August 1943, a timber merchant from Bendzin, Poland, arrived at Auschwitz. He was among a group of 400 inmates, mostly Jews. First, a doctor examined him briefly to determine his fitness for work. His physical information was noted on a medical record. Second, his full prisoner registration was completed with all personal details. Third, his name was checked against the indices of the Political Section to see if he would be subjected to special punishment. Finally, he was registered in the Labor Assignment Office and assigned a characteristic five-digit IBM Hollerith number, 44673.
The five-digit Hollerith number was part of a custom punch card system devised by IBM to track prisoners in Nazi concentration camps, including the slave labor at Auschwitz.
http://www.ibmandtheholocaust.com/articles/auschwitz.html
April 22nd, 2007 at 5:29 pmComment by Texan #128
Don’t confuse buckets…
…with your incestuous parents…
…both Huntsville ‘gradiates’ sic I presume…
April 22nd, 2007 at 5:31 pm#112 – Dear David – Liberals would take guns away from the law abiding to make it easier for the poor-downtrodden criminal class to “even the score” of the oppressor class. I found many Euro kids nihilistic, spoiled and indulged when I was there a couple of years ago. Personally, the French riots to guarantee workers could not be fired was laughable – such losers! Thankfully, Old Europe is a poster of child of how NOT to grow an economy…..I have long thought most of the great Europeans… LEFT.
Til later….(P. S. Thanks for playing!!)
April 22nd, 2007 at 5:31 pmRight-wing fascists always blame good people for the bad things the fascists do in their lust for power and money. Right-wing fascists hate everyone except themselves, and they especially hate liberals, because liberals like people and want to create a sense of community.
Right-wing fascists want to profit off the suffering of the community and then blame the community for its suffering.
April 22nd, 2007 at 5:36 pmI’ll check back later to read your “clever†criticism…Who knows – you might shock me for once and not leap to your predictable conclusions!
Comment by valiant venus — April 22, 2007 @ 5:22 pm
None of your “clarifications” actually point the finger at liberalism. Way to conveniently rearrange your position.
The only two issues I will bother responding to (as in the others you basically said I was right) are that of the pro-life, pro-death penalty and the effect of feminism on the American family.
1. Pro-life, pro-death penalty hypocrisy – As you are presumably a woman, I hope you realize the extent that women have had to go to in the past to earn you the rights you have today. Why you would want to cast off some of those rights is beyond me. That said, there is no current agreement on when life begins. To even compare the abortion (by the way, most pregnancies terminate naturally) to the active taking of a life is absurd. Even you conservatives’ beloved Bible considers the loss of a fetus equivalent to the loss of property.
Also, I would like to point out here that you attacked the “liberal agenda.” In turn I believe that its only fair to be able to attack the “conservative agenda.” Your personal beliefs have no place under such terms.
2. Feminism vs the Family
While you seem to enjoy referring to the outer reaches of feminism when making this argument, the mainstream feminist (or liberal as the case may be) does not advocate the absence of the father. Feminism, as I understand it, merely encourages women to not be subservient to or dependent on a man. Again, as a woman, I am not quite sure how you can be opposed to this but to each his/her own.
Now its your turn to move the goalposts again.
April 22nd, 2007 at 5:38 pmDear Bucket – I do NOT hate liberals – many are sweeet people and many of the rest are amusing.
April 22nd, 2007 at 5:39 pmCorporate conservatism at its best –
“The Polish timber merchant’s punch card number would follow him from labor assignment to labor assignment as Hollerith systems tracked him and his availability for work, and reported the data to the central inmate file eventually kept at Department DII. Department DII of the SS Economics Administration in Oranienburg oversaw all camp slave labor assignments, utilizing elaborate IBM systems.
Later in the summer of 1943, the Polish timber merchant’s same five-digit Hollerith number, 44673, was tattooed on his forearm. Eventually, during the summer of 1943, all non-Germans at Auschwitz were similarly tattooed.
Tattoos, however, quickly evolved at Auschwitz. Soon, they bore no further relation to Hollerith compatibility for one reason: the Hollerith number was designed to track a working inmate-not a dead one. Once the daily death rate at Auschwitz climbed, Hollerith-based numbering simply became outmoded. Soon, ad hoc numbering systems were inaugurated at Auschwitz. Various number ranges, often with letters attached, were assigned to prisoners in ascending sequence. Dr. Josef Mengele, who performed cruel experiments, tattooed his own distinct number series on “patients.” Tattoo numbering schemes ultimately took on a chaotic incongruity all its own as an internal Auschwitz-specific identification system.
However, Hollerith numbers remained the chief method Berlin employed to centrally identify and track prisoners at Auschwitz. For example, in late 1943, some 6,500 healthy, working Jews were ordered to the gas chamber by the SS. But their murder was delayed for two days as the Political Section meticulously checked each of their numbers against the Section’s own card index. The Section was under orders to temporarily reprieve any Jews with traces of Aryan parentage. ”
April 22nd, 2007 at 5:39 pmhttp://www.ibmandtheholocaust.com/articles/auschwitz.html
This post has been brought to you by a professor of philosophy in the interest of elevating public discourse by improving people’s reasoning skills and intellectual and moral integrity.
Comment by Prof. Mark Colby
They also sometimes fail to understand irony…..
April 22nd, 2007 at 5:39 pm2. Feminism vs the Family
While you seem to enjoy referring to the outer reaches of feminism when making this argument, the mainstream feminist (or liberal as the case may be) does not advocate the absence of the father. Feminism, as I understand it, merely encourages women to not be subservient to or dependent on a man. Again, as a woman, I am not quite sure how you can be opposed to this but to each his/her own.
Comment by erock
Simple. Self-loathing women hate all women.
Well said, erock. Good luck.
April 22nd, 2007 at 5:42 pmCorporate conservatism and efficiency at its peak
“In some camps, such as Dachau and Storkow, as many as two dozen IBM sorters, tabulators, and printers were installed.
IBM’s custom-designed prisoner-tracking Hollerith punch card equipment allowed the Nazis to efficiently manage the hundreds of concentration camps and sub-camps throughout Europe, as well as the millions who passed through them. Auschwitz’ camp code in the IBM tabulation system was 001.
Nearly every Nazi concentration camp operated a Hollerith Department known as the Hollerith Abteilung. The three-part Hollerith system of paper forms, punch cards and processing machines varied from camp to camp and from year to year, depending upon conditions. ”
April 22nd, 2007 at 5:44 pmhttp://www.ibmandtheholocaust.com/articles/auschwitz.html
Now Newt, let us speak of Conservatives and mass murder
Prescott Bush became Hitler’s banker when he became Fritz Thyssen’s banker. [25] [26] The incredible loot Fritz’s father made in steel, coal, and railroads during WWI was hidden in Holland. Shortly afterwards he was looking to spread some in America and opened a front operation through E.R. Harriman in New York City. [27] [28], [29] In fact, reports indicate that the Bush connections to Nazi money continued through 1951
April 22nd, 2007 at 5:48 pmNewt – let us speak of Conservatives and mass murder
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1312540,00.html
“How Bush’s grandfather helped Hitler’s rise to power
Rumours of a link between the US first family and the Nazi war machine have circulated for decades. Now the Guardian can reveal how repercussions of events that culminated in action under the Trading with the Enemy Act are still being felt by today’s president
Ben Aris in Berlin and Duncan Campbell in Washington
Saturday September 25, 2004
The Guardian
George Bush’s grandfather, the late US senator Prescott Bush, was a director and shareholder of companies that profited from their involvement with the financial backers of Nazi Germany.
The Guardian has obtained confirmation from newly discovered files in the US National Archives that a firm of which Prescott Bush was a director was involved with the financial architects of Nazism.
His business dealings, which continued until his company’s assets were seized in 1942 under the Trading with the Enemy Act, has led more than 60 years later to a civil action for damages being brought in Germany against the Bush family by two former slave labourers at Auschwitz and to a hum of pre-election controversy. “
April 22nd, 2007 at 5:53 pm“The culture of increased poverty, the culture of decreased health car including MENTAL HEALTH CARE… put all that together and what do you have?†Comment by had enough
Dear HE – Fair questions. The increase in poverty can be attributed to an increase in out of wedlock births. (You do not mention the 928,000 new millionaires who have emerged from the middle class.)
The mental health crisis in America ca be laid directly at the feet of the ACLU who sued the Reagan administration and Rudy Guiliani (when he was mayor of NYC) to allow the wholesale release of patients from mental institutions.
The culture of poverty is exacerbated by a welfare Uncle Sam who substitutes for a real Dad. What is really sad is the fact certain political interests MUST maintain a poor underclass. These poor voters generally support liberals. Conservatives want all boats to rise with the tide – we call them customers….
Comment by valiant venus — April 22, 2007 @ 4:52 pm
There is so much bull to deal with in your post……
poverty is created by the loss of the middle class due to laws made by the republican congress for corporate opportunity. Ex:o out sourcing, bankruptesy laws written by credit card co’s, tax breaks for the very rich,. Our health care system began to crumble when Reagan made if FOR PROFIT from the moral not for profit. Have you noticed homelessness became a common word during Reagan’s term? Along with that grew the gated communities… at the same speed perhaps?
Unless something is done about our increasing poverty, lack of health care along with mental health care, our fascist government taking our rights away, along with the horrible abuse our soldiers are receiving (1 in 3 have some sort of mental problem?) all hell is about to break loose. There will not be enough gates, the gated communities depend upon, to keep the mayhem out. And you want to talk about illegitemate births?????
April 22nd, 2007 at 5:56 pmvermin venus misses one little fact amidst her/his long, drawn-out blather: the divorce and out-of-wedlock birth rates are higher in the conservative red states than in the liberal blue ones. Yes, I know that facts seldom are allowed to get in the way of favored neoCOn talking points.
April 22nd, 2007 at 5:58 pmIt’s good to know that even mass murder didn’t stop IBM from fulfilling its service contracts.
“IBM did not sell any of its punch card machines to Nazi Germany. The equipment was leased by the month.
Each month, often more frequently, authorized repairmen, working directly for or trained by IBM, serviced the machines on-site-whether in the middle of Berlin or at a concentration camp. In addition, all spare parts were supplied by IBM factories located throughout Europe. Of course, the billions of punch cards continually devoured by the machines, available exclusively from IBM, were extra.”
April 22nd, 2007 at 6:05 pmhttp://www.ibmandtheholocaust.com/articles/auschwitz.html
As I remember it, one of the news magazine TV programs did a special on Columbine and the school that one of the students who did the shooting went to before attending Columbine.
Guess what – both are in heavy military industry areas.
April 22nd, 2007 at 6:12 pmNo substantive argument – no defense of “liberal†culture – no surprise….
Comment by valiant venus — April 22, 2007 @ 4:39 pm
It doesn’t need a defense. Just as it doesn’t need to trump up false charges against the right.
How do you defend against trumped up, cover your own ass arguments? You ignore the idiots like Newt and VV who make them.
April 22nd, 2007 at 6:16 pmAnd of course let’s not forget to mention that Virginia is home to an impressive list of military companies, contractors, bases, and the pinnacle of military armaments and waste – the Pentagon, and of course, last but not least, there’s the CIA.
One wonders where Virginia would even be without the military welfare system.
None of these organizations, institutions, businesses, or federal agencies could in any way shape or form be considered ‘liberal.’
No Newt, me thinks thou dost protest too much.
April 22nd, 2007 at 6:25 pmhttp://www.virginiaplaces.org/military/milbase.html
In fact Newt, the facts seem to point to the opposite conclusion –
it is the militarization of the American community and economy that is at the root of this problem with mass murder.
April 22nd, 2007 at 6:28 pm#136
Erock,
An excellent post. Don’t be surprised if you don’t get a coherent or fair-minded response, though, as the individual you’re trying to reason with doesn’t understand the meanings of the terms “liberalism” or “feminism.” This is why she’ll move the goalposts again and not even admit that she’s done so. She likes to attack straw men. She doesn’t even realize that they arestraw men, with no relation to the actual, sophisticated views of liberal or feminist thinkers. Of course, without any knowledge of these views, all she can do is what she’s done to many others here–bait them. You’re being baited. She has no desire to reason, argue or learn.
April 22nd, 2007 at 6:37 pmIt’s good to know that IBM was so efficient at helping the Nazis in their business of mass murder. Think of the brilliance of thinking to set up a punch card print shop right across the street from the Warsaw Ghetto. What genius!
In March of this year, the Village Voice broke exclusive new details of a special IBM wartime subsidiary set up in Poland by IBM’s New York headquarters shortly after Hitler’s 1939 invasion. In 1939, America had not entered the war, and it was still legal to trade with Nazi Germany. IBM’s new Polish subsidiary, Watson Business Machines, helped Germany automate the rape of Poland. The subsidiary was named for its president Thomas J. Watson.
Central to the Nazi effort was a massive 500-man Hollerith Gruppe, installed in a looming brown building at 24 Murnerstrasse in Krakow. The Hollerith Gruppe of the Nazi Statistical Office crunched all the numbers of plunder and genocide that allowed the Nazis to systematically starve the Jews, meter them out of the ghettos and then transport them to either work camps or death camps.
The trains running to Auschwitz were tracked by a special guarded IBM customer site facility at 22 Pawia in Krakow. The millions of punch cards the Nazis in Poland required were obtained exclusively from IBM, including one company print shop at 6 Rymarska Street across the street from the Warsaw Ghetto. The entire Polish subsidiary was overseen by an IBM administrative facility at 24 Kreuz in Warsaw.
April 22nd, 2007 at 6:50 pmThis is the 153nd (at least) post about a person whose name does not deserve to be spoken.
He is a failed historian, failed politician, failed husband, failed ideologue (even venomous venus, the defender of all things “conservative” has negative things to say about him), and failed human being.
He deserves a common fate of those who speak in disparaging generalities about groups of people they neither know nor understand or about figments of their imagination, made up to “prove” and unprovable point: He deserves to be ignored.
April 22nd, 2007 at 6:55 pmYou’re being baited. She has no desire to reason, argue or learn.
Comment by Prof. Mark Colby — April 22, 2007 @ 6:37 pm
I realize that. But she’s just so darn arrogant, someone has to try to educate her.
April 22nd, 2007 at 7:02 pmValiant Venus: “What is really sad is the fact certain political interests MUST maintain a poor underclass.”
See, now here’s where I see a big hole in the thinking of modern conservative libertarians such as you. The only “political interests” in this country which consistently want to maintain a poor underclass are large corporations. Large corporations want cheap labor. Corporate power does not want a strong middle class our strong labor unions which go hand in hand historically with a strong middle class. You say “conservatives want customers,” but modern conservatives favor policy which allows corporations to outsource American jobs and get tax advantages for it. You seem to see more corruption in trying to get poor people to vote for you than you do in policies which create more poor people. I find that strange.
April 22nd, 2007 at 7:05 pm# 119 – Comment by Prof. Mark Colby:
I wish everyone in this blog would read Hegel and Strauss, so they would understand what they (Neo-Conservatives) mean when making comments as such. First, Gingrich’s comments have nothing to do with moral imperatives and who is truly at fault in any tragedy. Neo-Conservatives believe in the “Noble Lie” that Plato spoke of in “The Republic”. Strauss the true father of Neo-Conservatism believed in the “Noble Lie”, but argued against Plato’s assertions that this was God’s intervention. Instead, Strauss an atheist, argued that in order to control the “vulgar” (masses) the “Noble Lie” should be framed as a moral imperative aginst “Liberalism” whether true or not. In other words they will always blame the Liberal for any incompetence or tragedy that may occur.
April 22nd, 2007 at 7:15 pmcertain political interests MUST maintain a poor underclass
There’s a natural law – in order to have very very rich people, you must have very very poor people. After all how do rich people become rich, they become rich as some one else becomes poor. The resources, salaries, flow out of the poor person’s hand and into the hand of the rich. It is a balancing act, and in this country the balance is going farther and farther out of balance.
Soon the US will be like the South American oligarchies, where there are the super super rich and the super super poor, and the cycle just gets worse until the entire system collapses because the super super rich do not work, produce nothing, while the super super poor do all the work and starve to death. It just doesn’t work as a system.
But people like VV can’t understand that because when the facts are presented VV disappears, unable to discuss the facts.
April 22nd, 2007 at 7:16 pmWhile the much touted Average income of Americans has been rising, the Median income (half the people higher…half the people lower) has been FLAT for Bush’s 6 years. Averages are a tricky measurement. As Robert Reich (who is about 5 feet tall) says…Me and Michael Jordan are , on average, 6 feet tall. My point is …. incomes have been rising due mostly to the rising incomes of those at the Top. The rest of us are left grumbling about $3 gas.
April 22nd, 2007 at 7:18 pm#154,
Erock,
I too tried to educate her. I tried to point out problems with her reasoning and her flippant, smug attitude toward reasoning (i.e., her intellectual dishonesty), and I told her that I was an authority on these problems of hers because I’m a professor of philosophy, who teaches critical thinking. (In other words, if anyone ought to be correct in identifying fallacies in her reasoning, it would be someone like me, who’s paid to educate students to do exactly that.) Her response was to accuse me of being autocratic and to promise to ignore me from now on. This, of course, was her evasion of the validity of my points, but it reveals her true character. No one can be educated who doesn’t have a sincere desire to be educated.
There was another individual, who posted by the name of “Jake.” He was just as arrogant, uninformed, smug, condescending, and flippant as she is. He was much worse than she in one respect: he persistently interrupted and disrupted posts here, to the point where half or more of the posts on a particular topic were either his intellectually empty or dishonest posts or posts made by others in futile attempts to engage him in argument. Because of these interruptions and disruptions, I posted once on TP asking others to ignore Jake until he exhibited enough intellectual and moral integrity to respect others by taking their arguments seriously. Someone named “Unbelievable” replied to my post. She said that she replied to Jake, not for Jake’s sake (since she knew that reasoning with Jake was hopeless) but for the sake of other conservatives who might visit TP.
If Unbelievable is correct, perhaps your attempts to educate Valiant Venus will succeed in educating others. I think Unbelievable is right in one respect: the only good that will result from your attempts to educate Venus, if anything, will be the education of third parties who visit TP from the right and read your attempts to reply to Venus. Venus, however, has doomed herself to live the rest of her life in intellectual ignorance.
April 22nd, 2007 at 7:20 pmEighteen percent of Texans, and 25 percent of Texas children, lived below the federally defined poverty level, according to the 2005 American Community Survey. The nationwide percentage below poverty level was 13 percent.
April 22nd, 2007 at 7:22 pm#155,
Bluedog49,
Excellent post. I just want to add one comment: it’s not strange at all. What you’ve identified is the limit of her intellectual ability. There are undeniable logical defects in her reasoning, as you and others here have repeatedly tried to point out to her, but she’s unable to see them. What makes this limitation even worse is that she’s also unwilling to acknowledge that there are any such defects. (A necessary condition for anyone’s intellectual development is the capacity to acknowledge one’s own ignorance, errors, and limits.) The defects are not hers, of course–only ours, hence her bottomless smugness. Intellectual incapacity combined with intellectual dishonesty is an impossible combination for any rational individual to overcome.
April 22nd, 2007 at 7:29 pmThank you for your input Mr./Ms. Had enough – We’ve always had homelessness – we simply changed the name from h-o-b-o to homeless…..But I do have a suggestion to fix CHRONIC homelessness – let a kind-hearted liberal take one home. You’ll feel wonderful about yourself and can pat each other on the back!!
April 22nd, 2007 at 7:34 pmIntellectual incapacity combined with intellectual dishonesty
Describes Bush to a T
April 22nd, 2007 at 7:35 pmAnd did you go to Europe, Valiant Venus, as an American or pretending to be a Canadian. (Judging by your experience with European youth, I’d say you made it all too clear you were American.)
What Global Warming tells us is that America’s obsession with growth is misguided. Cancers are the only things that grow without an end in sight besides laissez-faire capitalism.
Europe is more of a cultivated garden than a cancer. And they’re much happier than Americans. (Even there riots are civilized. Unlike American riots, which just give fodder to the Right to yearn nostaligically for the days of segregation.)
Prof Colby is correct. The Republican Right doesn’t know what liberalism and feminism are. They’ve demonized both. I’ve even heard Ann Coulter insist to a British journalist that John Stuart Mill was a ‘conservative’. The journalist thought she was delusional.
Indeed, most of the Republican Right feel they can redefine words at will, just as Lewis Carroll’s Humpty-Dumpty did. This is the source of Stephen Colbert’s ‘truthiness’.
Consider this site, TP. It links to actual news stories that expose the lies of the Republican Right or offer glaring examples of the Right’s propaganda. When I visit Rightwing news sites, all I find are editorials and commentary buttressed with unverified statements, uncited sources, and weasel words.
What is most depressing is the lockstep Right/Left debate that the Republicans impose on every issue. Gun control is never about the types of weapons or owners that should be restricted; it’s always about denying lawabiding citizens the right to bear arms. To win, the Right always needs to drive a wedge between people who might otherwise find common ground. In this, the Right can be said to be undemocratic and unAmerican.
50% +1 is a poor way to run a country. Where %50% -1 disagrees, there isn’t much hope for the Union. Liberalism is the philosophy of inclusiveness and expanded rights and freedoms. The Republican Right is about creating a class war where there had never been one before. Indeed, the division between the haves and havenots –and the addition of the havemores– is a hallmark of modern Republicanism. And it would make Lincoln weep.
April 22nd, 2007 at 7:36 pmNewt’s message resonates with the clueless quarter of America. Enough to keep the hate alive, but not enough to win elections. Goodbye, ol’ pus and bile.
April 22nd, 2007 at 7:38 pmThis “in your face” idiot shares responsibility for Mediocre America.
April 22nd, 2007 at 7:42 pmBut he still gets an audience. How sorry!
Dear Prof. Colby – Speaking of smug…….clean your mirror and see “smug” “up close and personal”!
As easy as you are to ignore, allow me to reiterate – YOU are an autocrat.
“a person invested with or claiming to exercise absolute authority. a person who behaves in an authoritarian manner; a domineering person. ”
(i.e. see Mark Colby)
If you teach in the same manner you write, students all over the Columbia campus could catch up on their much needed sleep. I’ll go back to ignoring you now (which is far more mentally invigorating.)
Have a great week!!
April 22nd, 2007 at 7:49 pmExcellent comments, as usual, Professor Colby.
Everytime I read one of your comments, I learn so much. Thank you.
BTW: Jake is now using the name “Dan.”
April 22nd, 2007 at 7:53 pmSadly, I know “a clueless quarter of America” is enough to win elections when only half of eligible voters go to the polls. In business, ruling with less than a majority ownership is known as having “controling interest”.
It is this understanding of “controling interest” that gives the Republicans such a keen interest in divisive issues. Issues, which in other democracies are settled by compromise or consensus, the Republicans will play up the differences, demonize the other side of the debate, and insist there can be no common ground.
On the war in Iraq, redeployment is painted as surrender even though Kissinger and numerous generals, retired and in the field, say the war cannot be won militarily. The objective is not to govern, but to win power. Power is all they’re interested in and one must always beware of the power-hungry because they’ll consume their own kind rather than relinquish an ounce of power.
April 22nd, 2007 at 7:55 pmAs easy as you are to ignore, allow me to reiterate – YOU are an autocrat.
“a person invested with or claiming to exercise absolute authority. a person who behaves in an authoritarian manner; a domineering
Comment by valiant venus — April 22, 2007 @ 7:49 pm
LOL project much?
Mark Colby, your wasting your breath on Ms. Venus. She is a woman capable of making sick jokes about her deceased child. Whether the child existed or not is irrelevant.
A little more on topic, I find the constant refrain from the right about how this shooting is all the fault of liberals is pretty funny/sad. I am guessing it plays well with the bottom 30% who still believe Saddam was about to give nukes to Osama.
April 22nd, 2007 at 7:59 pmIn 1974 Nixon was forced to slink away from the White House in disgrace. He was merely following on the heels of his previous Vice President, Spiro Agnew, who was also a thief and a liar. But the right-wing Republicans who supported Nixon got their feelings hurt. They felt slighted. They devoted themselves to changing the structure of their political party, and they succeeded.
Twenty years later, in 1994, Newt Gingrich led the so-called Republican Revolution, touting his “Contract On America.” Never mind that Gingrich was forced to leave the halls of Congress in disgrace when his own hypocricy was discovered. But the ‘publican pukes he left behind in his wake managed to maintain their hold on the Congressional majority by using their propaganda machine. Each and every day for the past thirteen years these corporate-backed reich-wing dirt-bags have been spewing forth their filth, divisiveness and hatred across the public airwaves with a single goal in mind: Smear anything that is not hatched by fascists for the benefit of fascists; Stand solidly behind all fascist backers, until they get sent to prison; Blame everything that goes wrong on liberals.
No, Newt, liberals did not create this culture. You did. We’re being forced to live in the culture you devised, and we’re sick of it.
Certainly we’re seeing lots of kids act out with a violence that would have sent you running to hide behind your mother’s skirt in fear, peeing your pants all the way home. But what else would you expect? They’re only imitating what they see you and your kind doing.
They understand what America’s doing. They can’t help but witness how the dominant nation in the world is acting out on the world stage. They see what’s going on in Iraq. They hear about the kidnapping/rendition flights, the secret prisons; they understand the perverse pleasure your kind derives from the torture inflicted on innocent human beings by your kind. They see your disregard for human decency and established judicial principles — and they understand the implications all this holds for them.
No, Newt, after 13 years of ‘publican governance, you can’t blame what taking place today on liberals. We understand you have no one else to blame but liberals, because you can’t accept the blame that so rightfully belongs to you. Unfortunately, you’re stuck with it. So suck it up big boy, you’re no longer a kid.
April 22nd, 2007 at 8:29 pm#167,
Once again, for the third or fourth time (and certainly the last), you fail to understand the point, which is rather elementary. Logic and good reasoning aren’t about me. They aren’t about you (except in the sense that you should try to learn about them and, incidentally, depersonalize the matter so that it doesn’t threaten you). They are about how the human mind functions when it functions well and when it desires to function even better. And again, as you have time after time, you lower yourself to the level of personally insulting me. I’m actually a modest person. I don’t have intellectual pretensions. What I do have is advanced graduate training in philosophy. (If I told you how much, and from where, you wouldn’t believe me. And, judging from your character, even if you did believe me, it wouldn’t matter to you.) Training and knowledge confer a certain amount of authority, no? If not, then from where does your own legal authority derive? Are you not paid to deliver an intellectual service which you’re qualified to deliver on the basis of such training?
What would be your response if someone who had, by his own admission, no training in the law yet who told you that your legal reasoning was defective? Presumably you’d be dismissive, and you’d have every right to be, by virtue of your legal training. The situation with you and me is no different. I have intellectual training that you do not, and this training could not be more relevant to the functioning (or impairments and limitations of functioning) of your own mind. Yet you refuse to acknowledge this and, instead, insult, deprecate, and distort. It’s quite amusing, and I am genuinely grateful because you’ve provided me with material for my book.
Krazny,
Yes, I know I’m wasting my breath; I’ve said as much to others here, especially today. I almost never directly reply to her, but I just did. This proves that I’m only human after all. But, as I just said in reply to her, I have a book to write and I certainly won’t allow the likes of her to interfere with it in the future. (Maybe it will even help in its own modest way to prevent more from becoming like her.)
Zooey,
Thank you again. If you don’t see me posting much anymore, it’s only because I have more urgent matters. Take care.
April 22nd, 2007 at 8:42 pmI know this is probably going to be an unpopular point, but I think the hypocritical Newt has a point. (Granted… it is exaggerated, confrontational, and it blames “liberals†for some reason.)
We are exposing young people to a lot of violent images and ideas… and I believe this is a bad thing… (I also think there should be a law that makes it illegal for people with a mental illness to buy a gun.)
April 22nd, 2007 at 8:58 pmZooey,
Thank you again. If you don’t see me posting much anymore, it’s only because I have more urgent matters. Take care.
Comment by Prof. Mark Colby
Thanks, Professor Colby.
April 22nd, 2007 at 9:02 pm“As for mom’s – I am sick to death of teachers, society, etc. putting up with hovering “helicopter†moms. These moms make every excuse for their poorly behaved or poorly achieving child. They micro-manage their kids lives so much so that children develope little imaginative skills.
Comment by valiant venus — April 22, 2007 @ 5:22 pm”
Then why the hell are you a neocon? Because, living in a very red area of a red state, that is the perfect description of every bible-beating, Bush-apologistic, paranoid conservative control-freak parent I’ve ever met.
And I don’t tolerate them, because, although my conservative administration tells me to call the parents of “rude” (their word) “children” (also their word for my 17 and 18 year old students), I work it out with the students. On the occasions that I have met parents, at open houses or football games, it is always the parents of students who complain about how strict their parents are who are conservative. It’s what conservative means, silly no-thinker.
I had conservative parents. I know what that means. It’s why I’m a liberal teacher who gives my students an assignment and lets them figure out a lot on their own. I know that it will be their mistakes that they will learn from the most.
It’s not liberal parents that you complain about – it’s conservative ones. I know you are confused about this because you’re in here so much neglecting your imaginary offspring thinking you’re being a good parent – but the alternative of smothering your kid isn’t ignoring it completely…
April 22nd, 2007 at 9:05 pmThis man is becoming even more despicable as the years pass.
April 22nd, 2007 at 9:06 pmThat’s incoherent in addition to being BS. Gingrich isn’t this dumb. He just knows it’ll play well with the base. Shame on him. Today’s movement conservatives: afraid of boogeyman everywhere, quick to blame liberals for everything, unwilling to take responsibility for anything.
April 22nd, 2007 at 9:12 pmSo Imus spews anti-female statements because someone bought their kid a pimp costume? And that caused the Virginia Tech shooting? It’s perfectly clear…take your meds, newt.
April 22nd, 2007 at 9:14 pm“Now its your turn to move the goalposts again.
Comment by erock — April 22, 2007 @ 5:38 pm”
Excellent post!
Might I ad that the bible actually approves of abortion, as there are several verses in which the Christian god performs them himself in response to acts that do not please him or in response to prayers.
I consider myself a Feminist. Those who blame us for societiy’s ills generally, as you mentioned, take the most extreme 1% mindset and broadly paint us all with it. The real reason for the problems we have with children today is simple. It boils down to their parents. For example, a ceratin poster here claims to have four children in addition to a busy law career – yet spends hours at a time in this blog posting. Just think what would happen if parents who put their chidlren last instead chose to put them first. We’d have far fewer negative children’s issues facing us today.
Any woman who supports a belief-system that degrades women and considers them second class citizens cannot be taken credibly or seriously…
April 22nd, 2007 at 9:16 pmThank you, DB. Just wait until we find out about ALL the violent movies, music, and video games Cho played.
April 22nd, 2007 at 9:17 pmunbelievable:
If America had elected Strom Thurmond as President, we wouldn’t have all these problems either. Hypotheticals abound (I’ve been a lawyer for 16 years now, if that helps).
April 22nd, 2007 at 9:20 pmThe Fox-Republican officials and politicians always blame the liberals.
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/22/gingrich-liberalism-vatech/
See Newt blame the liberals for the VT tragedy. As if! Maybe the conservative NRA had just a bit to do with it? Virginia is one of the easiest states from which to obtain firearms, and that’s exactly what the shooter did. Try to make handguns harder to obtain, even by freaks like the shooter, and you’ll see the conservative NRA jump up and down about the constitutional right to bear arms, as if it’s more important to everyone else’s right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness (as opposed to getting jacked by a psycho who bought a gun like it was a pack of gum). And as the report shows, it’s hardly Newt’s first time at this game.
Newt and his fellow fops make me sick.
April 22nd, 2007 at 9:28 pmDear me, Dan. I’m so sorry. How many ambulences backed over you?
April 22nd, 2007 at 9:30 pmI’ll go back to ignoring you now (which is far more mentally invigorating.)
Have a great week!!
Comment by valiant venus — April 22, 2007 @ 7:49 pm
Prof. Colby, I think the queen of mean is slinking back to her lair. She won’t admit it but I think she knows whe was “bitch slapped”. Sorry for the language but sometimes with vv it’s manadatory.
April 22nd, 2007 at 9:34 pm“If Unbelievable is correct, perhaps your attempts to educate Valiant Venus will succeed in educating others
Comment by Prof. Mark Colby — April 22, 2007 @ 7:20 pm”
Thanks for quoting me correctly and fairly. I’m not used to that… : )
I agree that we will not educate the trolls, because they came here to “educate” or convert us. I truly do think that there are others who venture here, out of curiousity, who are open. I was once one of them myself. And because of people who were willing to point out the holes in the dangerous belief systems of the non-thinking right, I became a liberal. Liberals had the better argument, and eventually, I couldn’t find any reason to deny the reality that they were talking about. So, because I am grateful for those who were willing to speak truth to power, I now rebutt the conservative arguments of the trolls never knowing who might be looking in with an open mind…
April 22nd, 2007 at 9:35 pm(I also think there should be a law that makes it illegal for people with a mental illness to buy a gun.)
Comment by DB — April 22, 2007 @ 8:58
Apparently there is such a law. Cho’s background wasn’t thoroughly checked in that regard. But thanks to the previous Rethug-led Congress the families of the victims won’t be able to sue the parties that sold Cho his weapons for negligence.
April 22nd, 2007 at 9:36 pmWhy are my posts disappearing?
I put a lot of effort into composing them, and they aren’t ‘delete’ material… What gives?
April 22nd, 2007 at 9:44 pmIf I were into making sweeping generalizations, which I’m not (and I am aware that the causes of mental illness and the reasons why some people become killers can be complex), I would say that if any one group is responsible for a decline in morals in the US, it’s the hypocrite neoCONs like Gingrich, Wolfowitz, Rev. Haggard, Dan Burton, Bob Ney, etc. who very publicly don’t practice what they preach–not to mention, this administration which lies about almost everything.
April 22nd, 2007 at 9:48 pmDan (Jake) – Strom Thurmond? Get a better hypothetical.
You’re in luck that I’m annoyed that one of my posts was “eaten”, and I’m not in the mood to type something else thoughtful and see it disappear.
Later
April 22nd, 2007 at 9:49 pmDear Prof. Colby – Speaking of smug…….clean your mirror and see “smug†“up close and personalâ€! Comment by valiant venus — April 22, 2007 @ 7:49 pm
Ah, is it sad to see what a smug, self righteous, bighting little c*nt you are? Did someone else hold a mirror to you, and show you what a hate filled miserable loathing c*nt you are? Ah, wah! And all you can do is piss, moan and whine about it? How sad for you!
As easy as you are to ignore, allow me to reiterate – YOU are an autocrat.
“a person invested with or claiming to exercise absolute authority. a person who behaves in an authoritarian manner; a domineering person. â€(i.e. see Mark Colby) Comment by valiant venus — April 22, 2007 @ 7:49 pm
BAHAHAHAHAAHA, more projection, how FUNNY! If you could see exactly how INSANE you look on the blogs, you’d realize what a JOKE you are. Then again, if you could accurately see yourself, you wouldn’t be a crazy Anorexic either…
If you teach in the same manner you write, students all over the Columbia campus could catch up on their much needed sleep. Comment by valiant venus — April 22, 2007 @ 7:49 pm
If you read, as poorly as you write, that explains a lot.
I’ll go back to ignoring you now (which is far more mentally invigorating.) Have a great week!! Comment by valiant venus — April 22, 2007 @ 7:49 pm
You think *ignorance* is invigorating? That explains a lot about you, and your fellow gun slinging terrorists.
April 22nd, 2007 at 9:51 pmThank you for your input Mr./Ms. Had enough – We’ve always had homelessness – we simply changed the name from h-o-b-o to homeless…..But I do have a suggestion to fix CHRONIC homelessness – let a kind-hearted liberal take one home. You’ll feel wonderful about yourself and can pat each other on the back!! Comment by valiant venus — April 22, 2007 @ 7:34 pm
A good percentage of homelessness comes from mentally *challenged* people like you. You expect us to solve the chronic homelessness by sharing MORE time with crazy lunatics, spouting sh*t about the rapture like you? Don’t you think we’re punished enough by your presence on here? ;)
St*pid hate filled miserable c*nt. I have a better idea, why don’t some of you *compassionate* conservatives do something about it, like in the last 6 years? Maybe because your *compassion* is as fake as your morals, values, and integrity?
St*pid miserable c*nt.
April 22nd, 2007 at 9:54 pmAh, the resident Jake*ss is here showing everyone he can’t tell the difference between Hypothetical and “strawman”. You know, you and venus really should have been aborted, when your parents realized they’d impregnated a sibling! You’re both a shining example of why abortion SHOULD be legal! St*pid inbred Jake*ss.
April 22nd, 2007 at 9:55 pm#180,
Dan,
I’m not sure what you’re claiming. By “hypotheticals” do you mean statements about possible alternate realities, such as one where Thurmond became President? If so, reasoning this way is fallacious; it’s called the fallacy of unknown facts. For example, one could argue that, had Thurmond become President, we would have a very different America. This is only valid in the most general logical sense that anything that’s not a logical contradiction is physically possible. (It’s logically possible that I’m a battery-powered robot.) In an argument, though, it’s a fallacy. Arguments can proceed only on the basis of actual facts, not hypothetical facts (the latter don’t exist). If I misunderstood you and you knew this about hypotheticals, I apologize. I explained this because this fallacy is one of the most common ones among the hundreds that people commit.
#183,
Shane,
I hope Venus has indeed returned to her lair, perhaps to rest in preparation for another onslaught of insult and invective in lieu of rational, civilized argument. My language is as polite as it is because, to me, this is a matter of intellectual and moral integrity–the insistence on the highest possible standards. But I’m an academic and a philosopher, so I impose such unusual burdens on myself. I would never ask anyone else to do so. But, having just said that, I think everyone on TP should try to make our debates more civilized. Certainly people like Venus make this difficult–even for me.
#184,
Unbelievable,
You’re welcome. I try to quote everyone correctly and fairly, even Venus. Intellectual integrity requires this. So, Venus, if you’re still here (and I hope you are so that you learn something), I practice what I preach.
April 22nd, 2007 at 10:01 pmSo, because I am grateful for those who were willing to speak truth to power, I now rebutt the conservative arguments of the trolls never knowing who might be looking in with an open mind…
Comment by unbelievable — April 22, 2007 @ 9:35 pm
I think that it is very important to rebuke their attacks whenever possible. That is primarily what the trolls here do, attack, attack, attack. However, the more you know, the more you realize you really know nothing. It is important to listen to those who actually come here to discuss the issues. Exley and Roger^2 are two great examples of this. Often I find myself pulled somewhat to the right on various issues as a result of their arguments. This is not to say that I 100% agree with them, but there is occassionally some credence to their ideas.
Trolls such as VV on the other hand only come here to agitate other posters and mischaracterize the left’s position. I engage her in the same way I would engage a “smart-a**” student. She, as Prof. Colby pointed out is primarily guilty of being ignorant of her own ignorance. She, like many trolls, are unteachable and hence are beyond our concern. Sad though that idea is.
April 22nd, 2007 at 10:04 pmif you look at the fact that we refuse to say that we are, in fact, endowed by our creator, that our rights come from God, that if you kill somebody, you’re committing an act of evil.
this really ticks me off. i’m an atheist, i don’t need some invisible super-hero in the sky to tell me what is right and what is wrong. i don’t need a big white-bearded granddaddy sitting on a cloud endowing me with rights. and i ain’t afraid of no ghosts.
if newt can’t determine what is good and what is evil without the threat of eternal damnation over his head, that’s his problem. and based on how he has treated all his past wives, he’s having trouble with it even his likely toasty afterlife.
April 22nd, 2007 at 10:09 pmhe’s having trouble with it even his likely toasty afterlife.
bad editing – i meant DESPITE his likely toasty afterlife.
April 22nd, 2007 at 10:13 pmThe Bible calls people like Newt…hypocrites. Deal with it, Cons…you are just like him.
April 22nd, 2007 at 10:23 pm“Feminism, as I understand it, merely encourages women to not be subservient to or dependent on a man. Again, as a woman, I am not quite sure how you can be opposed to this but to each his/her own. ”
Comment by erock #136
…”I ain’t sayin’ she (vv) a gol’ digga”…
-Kanye West-
April 22nd, 2007 at 10:25 pmGINGRICH IS AN CLASS A IDIOT IF HE IS THE BEST THAT CBS CAN OFFER US ON THEIR SUNDAY MORNING TALK SHOW THEN PERHAPS CBS NEEDS TO GIVE IT UP!
April 22nd, 2007 at 10:27 pm#
Thank you for your input Mr./Ms. Had enough – We’ve always had homelessness – we simply changed the name from h-o-b-o to homeless…..But I do have a suggestion to fix CHRONIC homelessness – let a kind-hearted liberal take one home. You’ll feel wonderful about yourself and can pat each other on the back!! Comment by valiant venus
Strongly disagree…the term Hobo has been around for decades. These were almost always men living this way by choice. During the 80’s – the Reagan era, homelessness become a common word. Before Reagan you did not see homeless families, for profit health care, dumping of patients into the streets as they were a financial drain on the health care system, gated communities, high school shootings, college shootings… from your attitude, I can tell you are part of the problem. With this downward trend, what do you think our future is going to be like when the military, 200,000 trained killers (?), 1/3 with mental problems come back to the states to this broken health, mental health care system?
April 22nd, 2007 at 10:47 pmGet some empathy… homelessness can happen to anyone. We have a huge problem from within and it is time we started to fix it.
Dear Prof. Colby – Thank you for sharing your knowledge with the great unwashed.
Seriously, I appreciate the training and sacrifice you have made to benefit and enlighten mankind.
My job requires logical digestion of facts and evidence. However, zealous criminal defenses require a multi pronged approach to evidence examination and explanation, forensic knowledge, accounting skills and believe it or not, people skills. (An aside: you come here to educate and/or demonstrate vast knowledge in your field of study. I come here to play.)
The most successful criminal defense attorneys zealously protect our clients Constitutional rights with vigorous challenge of the prosecution and their evidence. But all this is for naught if a jury PERCEIVES defense counsel to be lecturing or condescending. Some attorneys “mirror” a couple of jurors – people tend to like people similar to themselves. Remember, because of the threshold the DA must uphold to convict a guilty client, but spare the death penalty – that can be a WIN. But we have to relate to the jury – not lecture monotonously.
I will conclude by saying that many liberals are very noble. They are sweet, kind, sensitive people who often think the government should solve major problems – they will continue thinking about the problems. Many enjoy redistributing other people’s money. Others believe in non-violence at any cost. But independent thought is not held in monopoly by liberals. On our college campuses (and both coasts), being a liberal is conformity.
Good night.
April 22nd, 2007 at 10:55 pmMy language is as polite as it is because, to me, this is a matter of intellectual and moral integrity–the insistence on the highest possible standards
I think everyone on TP should try to make our debates more civilized. Certainly people like Venus make this difficult–even for me.
Comment by Prof. Mark Colby #192
At the risk of being overly simplistic…
…engaging inbred Bushites like valiant venus, Dan, michael, Jake et al…
…in civilized, intellectual debate…
…is impossible…
…because for THEM this site is about playing games, and getting a rise out of posters here…
…THEY realize how disastrous and criminally corrupt the TREASONOUS Bushite junta is for America…
…but Bushiva “represents” THEIR tenuous hold on racial, economic, and political superiority…
…in an increasingly more diverse, minority-soon-to-become-majority filled transitional America…
…THEIR stubborn,obsessive, kamikazee-like devotion to a failed president and his failed policies…
…are reminiscent of Hitler’s bunker faithful… worshippers clinging to a dream (the conned’self-serving ideology) and its symbolic leadership…
…now in its death throes…
…the ONLY weapon they have left against those of us who would tear down their political gods…
…is “intellectual dishonesty”…
April 22nd, 2007 at 10:58 pm#201 thank you prof. for telling us all how to behave
April 22nd, 2007 at 11:17 pmBig Daddy – How would you characterize your “devotion to the failed social and economic agenda espoused by the Left? Tepid, lukewarm, white-hot?
But so as not to engage in intellectual dishonesty would you kindly explain the positive impact on society of:
increasing numbers of illegitimate children
legalized drugs
casual sex
debasement of women and gratuitous violence in entertainment?
I look forward to your candid answers with bated breath…..
Have a great week – however you spend it!
April 22nd, 2007 at 11:18 pm> MA says: I will conclude by saying that many liberals are very noble. They are sweet, kind, sensitive people who often think the government should solve major problems – they will continue thinking about the problems. Many enjoy redistributing other people’s money. Others believe in non-violence at any cost. But independent thought is not held in monopoly by liberals. On our college campuses (and both coasts), being a liberal is conformity.
April 22nd, 2007 at 11:19 pmHmm, odd. The rest of my post said “Poor, poor MA. I hope you have on original thought one day.” or something to that effect.
April 22nd, 2007 at 11:23 pm#202 Because the reich wing Christianists aren’t clear enough on how we are supposed to live.
April 22nd, 2007 at 11:24 pm#200,
Valiant Venus,
This post doesn’t sound like you. It’s too civil, reasonable, and slightly too well written given most of your other posts. Still, I appreciate it and I would like to think that it’s from you.
I understand how the legal system and its practices and instutions operate; but intellectual inquiry and debate operate on other principles and require other practices and institutions. My expertise is the latter; yours is the former.
I want to comment briefly on the rest of your post.
“many liberals are very noble.”
Like any other human group, many are noble, many are not. Many conservatives are very noble too, and many are not. Stereotypes and sweeping generalizations are unreliable and should be avoided. It’s better to focus on the issues, not on the individuals involved.
“They are sweet, kind, sensitive people who often think the government should solve major problems – they will continue thinking about the problems.”
Many major problems cannot be solved by individuals on their own, no matter how well-intentioned they are. This is a well-known problem, the problem of coordination, in political and social theory.
“Many enjoy redistributing other people’s money.”
One of the major issues in political theory is what desert is, how to measure it, and how to distribute social goods like wealth on its basis. Other people’s money may or may not belong to them alone; the question is a huge one. I hope that you familiarize yourself with some of the arguments for redistribution of part of people’s earnings to promote the public good; some are quite strong and worthy of anyone’s attention.
“But independent thought is not held in monopoly by liberals.”
I never said that it was. I would never make such a claim.
“On our college campuses (and both coasts), being a liberal is conformity.”
There’s nothing inherently wrong with conformity. Almost everyone conforms to the belief that love is important, that truth matters, that trust should be earned, etc. The question is not whether a belief or value is conformist but whether it is right–a huge difference.
I hope you read this post because, if it really is you and not an imposter, you might find it worthwhile.
April 22nd, 2007 at 11:30 pmDear Prof. Colby – Thank you for sharing your knowledge with the great unwashed. Comment by valiant venus — April 22, 2007 @ 10:55 pm
While we don’t doubt, that you’re *unwashed*, especially where it counts, you are by no measure *great*. Except perhaps grealtLY incompetent.
Seriously, I appreciate the training and sacrifice you have made to benefit and enlighten mankind. Comment by valiant venus — April 22, 2007 @ 10:55 pm
She says facetiously, and with great envy, as she faces the great chasm of her own st*pidity, incompetence, and lack of either training or sacrifice.
My job requires logical digestion of facts and evidence. Comment by valiant venus — April 22, 2007 @ 10:55 pm
B*llsh*t. You’re a hack, 24 year old commodities trader. You have no skill at digesting, recognizing or appreciating either facts or evidence, based on the ludicrous, and inept posts you make.
However, zealous criminal defenses require a multi pronged approach to evidence examination and explanation, forensic knowledge, accounting skills and believe it or not, people skills. (An aside: you come here to educate and/or demonstrate vast knowledge in your field of study. I come here to play.) Comment by valiant venus — April 22, 2007 @ 10:55 pm
Ah, now comes the “My d*ck is bigger than yours”, and “I’m smarter than you” from valiant venus. For someone that hates “intellectuals”, how ironic when she postulates to be one! Bah!
The most successful criminal defense attorneys zealously protect our clients Constitutional rights with vigorous challenge of the prosecution and their evidence. Comment by valiant venus — April 22, 2007 @ 10:55 pm
Successful, by constitutional measures? Or Successful, by terms of monetarily? The only *real* measure, for a *capitalist* like you – right? Don’t go all *commie* on us now – we KNOW you only value the *money*!!!!
You forgot the best way of being successful. Just use your Federalist connections, to get the President and Attorney General to fire the prosecutor…
But all this is for naught if a jury PERCEIVES defense counsel to be lecturing or condescending. Comment by valiant venus — April 22, 2007 @ 10:55 pm
Then *never* become an attorney. You are ALWAYS PERCEIVED as someone that’s lecturing and condescending – just like this post. You hypocritical little hag.
Some attorneys “mirror†a couple of jurors – people tend to like people similar to themselves. Remember, because of the threshold the DA must uphold to convict a guilty client, but spare the death penalty – that can be a WIN. But we have to relate to the jury – not lecture monotonously. Comment by valiant venus — April 22, 2007 @ 10:55 pm
You’ve been watching too much LAW AND ORDER – st*pid c*nt.
I will conclude by saying that many liberals are very noble. Comment by valiant venus — April 22, 2007 @ 10:55 pm
I will conclude by saying that you’re an immoral ignoble piece of lying, hate filled nazi sh*t.
They are sweet, kind, sensitive people who often think the government should solve major problems – they will continue thinking about the problems. Comment by valiant venus — April 22, 2007 @ 10:55 pm
You are a hate filled c*nt, that thinks your government should solve all of its problems with *force* – st*pid hypocrite.
Many enjoy redistributing other people’s money. Comment by valiant venus — April 22, 2007 @ 10:55 pm
You mean like towards Halliburton and Exxon? St*pid little hypocritical hag.
Others believe in non-violence at any cost. Comment by valiant venus — April 22, 2007 @ 10:55 pm
Now you hate the *amish*? What a piece of nazi terrorist trash you are!
But independent thought is not held in monopoly by liberals. Comment by valiant venus — April 22, 2007 @ 10:55 pm
So you claim, yet never are capable of *proving*. Thanks for noticing that liberals are the *center* of independent thought. At least you got that part right, st*pid c*nt.
On our college campuses (and both coasts), being a liberal is conformity. Good night. Comment by valiant venus — April 22, 2007 @ 10:55 pm
BAHAHA Liberal Conformity? I guess you’ve never been to a College Republican meeting! It’s hard to be *more* conformist!
Tell me, which *conforming* group are you referring to in college? There are so MANY different college groups. Oh wait, that undermins your LIBERAL CONFORMITY.
St*pid c*nt.
April 22nd, 2007 at 11:34 pmBut so as not to engage in intellectual dishonesty would you kindly explain the positive impact on society of:
increasing numbers of illegitimate children
legalized drugs
casual sex
debasement of women and gratuitous violence in entertainment?Comment
by valiant venus #203
vapid vagina,
…well I suppose you can’t help yourself…
…intellectual dishonesty must be a recessive gene trait…
…with you ignorant conned’selfserving types…
…if you’re implying that the litany of social ills you’ve listed above…
…are solely the domain of liberals (and worse yet a part of a “liberal agenda”)…
…then you’re more DELUDED than I thought…
…hasn’t Mr. Aphrodite come home from his nightly carousing?
…you two really should see a sex therapist…
…or is it MORE than just a matter of your frigidity? :-P
April 22nd, 2007 at 11:34 pm“Logical digestion of the facts and evidence”??? What is your job, Valiant Venus? Don’t tell me. Let me guess. You’re Monica Goodling, right?
That would explain the arrogance, the syntactical incoherence, and the irrational pride. And your haste to invoke the 5th as soon as Prof Colby got the better of you.
Newsflash: In a democracy, WE are the government. The government doesn’t solve our problems; we employ it to solve our problems. The trouble comes when our representatives seem more interested in working for the legal fictions we created in the form of companies.
Of course, if one believes that government should be run like a company where one share equals one vote instead of one shareholder/ one vote, I know there’s a word for that kind of government. And, boy, I know the Framers of the Constitution weren’t in favor of that!
April 22nd, 2007 at 11:37 pmBig Daddy – How would you characterize your “devotion to the failed social and economic agenda espoused by the Left? Tepid, lukewarm, white-hot? Comment by valiant venus — April 22, 2007 @ 11:18 pm
How ould you characterize your “devotion to the failed social and economic agenda espoused by the Right? Tepid, lukewarm, white-hot?
But so as not to engage in intellectual dishonesty would you kindly explain the positive impact on society of:
increasing numbers of illegitimate children
legalized drugs
casual sex
debasement of women and gratuitous violence in entertainment?
Debasement of women? BAHAHAHA, yeah, like saying they don’t deserve fair and equal treatment under the law, medicine or even in their own family structure?
Why do you care what drugs are legal or not? How has that CONSERVATIVE project of *prohibition* of drugs worked for you?
As for casual sex, bahahaha! Yeah, like *abstinence* is working so well for you! Maybe if you want your children to be 6 times more likely to engage in an*l intercourse and have unprotected sex?
You say you’re anti-abortion, yet there are more abortions now, than there were under the previous president.
You say your CON agenda in the world is making us safer, yet everyone from the pentagon forward say our policies have made us less safer!
You’ve been saying leave no child behind will improve education, and all it’s done is make Neil Bush richer!
You’ve been saying strengthen marriage, but then you attack gay people that want to join the institution.
You say help the poor become more rich, yet under this administration we have increased poverty, and a greater gap between rich and poor.
Sorry little c*nt, but your wingnut agenda has SO FAILED, that America has relegated you to the 30% that are UN-LURNABLE!
I look forward to your candid answers with bated breath…..
Have a great week – however you spend it!
Comment by valiant venus — April 22, 2007 @ 11:18 pm
You should try a dog biscuit for that. Watch out for the brands made in China though – that *capitalism* and *conservative* trade agenda of yours has made them a little dicey!
St*pid b*tch.
April 22nd, 2007 at 11:41 pm#199 – “Strongly disagree…the term Hobo has been around for decades. These were almost always men living this way by choice. During the 80’s – the Reagan era, homelessness become a common word. Before Reagan you did not see homeless families..”
****Unfortunately,there have always been homeless families. It ***became a “common word” thanks to a liberal media who fallaciously treated the homeless as a NEW phenomenon.
“for profit health care,”
***You are wrong again. What was uncommon was having health insurance. Doctors and hospitals were more rudimentary, they weren’t worried about the exorbitant malpractice suits and insurance and lurking ambulance chasers.
“dumping of patients into the streets as they were a financial drain on the health care system,”
****I agree – this is an abhorrent practice and charity or publicly funded hospitals (which we contribute to) should assist these people. I am also supportive of billing for hospital and medical care the corrupt Third World countries who encourage their poor citizens to come here illegally.
“gated communities,”
***….are a matter of choice. I am not a CC&R kind of gal but I would not tell other people where they should feel comfortable making their home purchase.
“high school shootings, college shootings”
***Sadly, contemporary society is forcing young people to grow up faster and faster – all in the name of honesty. They do not allow children the fun of being children. Imagination is squelched and adult problems are thrust on kids. What a shame.
… “from your attitude, I can tell you are part of the problem. ”
****Your trite assumptions about me reinforce what I KNOW about assumptions….May I assume you are not a student in Prof. Mark Colby’s Philosophy class?
“With this downward trend, what do you think our future is going to be like when the military, 200,000 trained killers (?), 1/3 with mental problems come back to the states to this broken health, mental health care system?”
****They will probably adjust in much the same way a majority of veterans have adjusted in ALL our previous wars. I have great confidence in the quality of “trained killers” we are fortunate enough to have face our mortal enemy.”
“We have a huge problem from within and it is time we started to fix it.”
****I agree – and I gave you a suggestion.
Comment by had enough
It’s been fun!!!
April 22nd, 2007 at 11:42 pmSounds like he’s right – Newt. Who was responsible for making it impossible to put nuts away without them having to kill someone? The ACLU. Also responsible for the “homeless”, i.e. crack and alcohol addicted mentally ill people.
How does making the entrances of all urban subways smell like urine show your wonderful concern for the “little people”?
April 22nd, 2007 at 11:43 pmvaliant venus apparently you have problems with as you stated:
increasing numbers of illegitimate children
legalized drugs
casual sex
debasement of women????
You have to be a follower of savage….women should have their place like in the 50’s right? debasement of women???? What?
April 22nd, 2007 at 11:44 pmAre you one that is threatened as women can now support themselves, equally have casual sex, have children without marriage, without a man? I know many professional women that prefer that life style. They have children without marriage to avoid any future custody battles and the children turn out fine.
Legalize drugs??? Let’s see, who are the real drug pushers – can’t be the corporate pharmaceuticals drugging our children and population now could it?
“…if you’re implying that the litany of social ills you’ve listed above…”
Big Daddy – Allow me to congratulate you – FOR ONCE you have been halfway honest!!!!!!!!!!!!
ALL of those things I mentioned are SOCIAL EVILS….and ALL have increased and flourished since the 1960’s.
I’ll mark my calendar – It’s a momentous occasion!
April 22nd, 2007 at 11:48 pm#212,
Ah, this is the Valiant Venus I’ve come to know and dismiss! As dogmatic, as thoughtless, as intellectually uncurious, as riddled with fallacies and unsupported generalizations, as insulting as ever! #200 must be an impostor. Too bad; for a moment I had hope for the future of your mind and for humanity as well.
April 22nd, 2007 at 11:51 pmNewt had little facts to support his old ideas … next thing you know, he’ll jump on the bandwagon blaming videogames. Of course it isn’t hard to find a list of games the shooter sold on Ebay http://digg.com/gaming_news/Virginia_Tech_shooter_Cho_owned_these_video_games_according_to_Ebay_records (even if Ebay has suspended the account)
April 22nd, 2007 at 11:51 pmProf. Colby – Whether you believe it is me or not is not as important as acknowledging (which I doin YOUR case) that other people have expertise in their field of study which I could never equal…and “my gifts” are my passion, strategizing and zealousness to assure my clients rights are not abridged.
Have a good week!
April 22nd, 2007 at 11:54 pmDID LIBERALISM CAUSE NEWT TO CHEAT ON HIS WIFE TOO?
F*CK OFF NEWT!
April 22nd, 2007 at 11:59 pmToo bad; for a moment I had hope for the future of your mind and for humanity as well.
Comment by Prof. Mark Colby
Silly you….
April 22nd, 2007 at 11:59 pm218,
Valiant Venus,
If it is indeed you, why such an immense difference in tone and content between your post to me in #200 and all you others to other posters here? Why be civil and reasonable with me and not with others? How can you just turn civility and reasonableness on and off like this? Everyone else here deserves as much of these as you gave me in #200.
April 23rd, 2007 at 12:01 am#220,
Zooey,
Yep, silly me. I knew it was too good to be true, sort of like “they’ll welcome us with flowers” and “the insurgency’s in its last throes.”
April 23rd, 2007 at 12:03 am#214 – To have and keep a biological child without a husband is one of the MOST selfish “me” oriented boomer ACTS ever. (I don’t care if your clock is ticking.) I care about kids….and too many women treat them like dolls.
The last four court appointed (death qualified) cases I took demonstrate (in a microcosm) how important married, sober parents are to kids. If you check with the DOJ you will see the numbers of incerated illegitimate “children” – if you’re human, you will weep.
Tooodles……..
April 23rd, 2007 at 12:05 am#212 – Ah…. Professor Colby – it was short ….but sweeet. So the fact I disagree with Dem talking points and….. I’m a poser? How logical is that? Just when I was beginning to hope you’re weren’t the nit-picking stuft shirt I often envision….*sigh*…
Have a great week, anyway!!
April 23rd, 2007 at 12:10 amWell, it depends on what Valiant Venus’s objective is. If it is to disrupt and provoke, then her shrillness and incivility short circuit discourse and anyone coming to TP will see ranting and raving liberals screaming 4 letter words and curses. The approach to Prof Colby is different. Her objective is to disarm and disengage. She really wants nothing to do with rational discourse; that is not her job. Her job is to bait and then to offer up the abusive response as proof liberals are wicked.
April 23rd, 2007 at 12:14 amTone and content are dictated from the top of this post on down – you may notice it ebbs and flows. Some lib posters are funny, some are filthy, some are satirical. Some people are fast on their feet – many are not.
One particular post of yours seemed condescending and smug. I realize you have a passion for your field of study which might seem tedious to others. Again, what you think of me, my profession,
etc. is of little importance.
Unfortunately, certain prog women can’t understand (or in any way accept the fact) fairly intelligent women who disagree with them. They don’t call them cat fights for nothing
April 23rd, 2007 at 12:22 amvenus
April 23rd, 2007 at 12:23 amLighten up… I am talking about self supporting women, women who, like you, also love children but choose to go it alone. These children grow up well balanced as they are around extended friends/family. The only difference is they do not go through the horrors of divorce, child custody battles which as we all know can cause emotional damage to the child. If a woman wants to have a child on her own and can physically, emotionally, financially provide plus give a good social structure, what is the problem?
to assure my clients rights are not abridged.
Have a good week!
Comment by valiant venus #218
…should Alberto Gonzales be replaced at DOJ?
…should Bushiva and L’il Dick be impeached?
…if not, why not?
April 23rd, 2007 at 12:26 amDavid – I don’t think liberals are wicked. I think they are sweet, kind, emotional people. Some of them feel guilty because they have so much without earning their rewards – others are lazy and feel other people owe them something. Some are social justice progressive religious folks and others are atheists.
As I said before – I come here to play. I come from a fun boisterous family and we view argument as sport…..
April 23rd, 2007 at 12:27 am#227 – Oh….you mean like fictional Murphy Brown? FYI – the VAST majority of single moms with incarcerated kids aren’t one iota like Murphy….
Thanks for playing!
April 23rd, 2007 at 12:30 amOh NO YOU DON”T, you sick Ph*ck. OH MAN can they make me any angrier, no I think not…..wait there is alway W and Dick….sigh, they are alway more evil….. where does it stop.
Hating the Repuke Mafia daily
April 23rd, 2007 at 12:39 amProf. Mark Colby:
I am not playing games or even hypothetical fallacies (I agree with you that we may have had all new problems had Thurmond been elected). I am simply stating my opinion that what MAJORITY LEADER Harry Reid said was worse than what Trent Lott said. Only one was forced to resign though. That’s all.
April 23rd, 2007 at 1:20 amI am simply stating my opinion that what MAJORITY LEADER Harry Reid said was worse than what Trent Lott said. Only one was forced to resign though. That’s all.
Comment by Dan — April 23, 2007 @ 1:20 am
An ignorant opinion only proves you’re ignorant – Jake*ss.
April 23rd, 2007 at 1:26 am#214 – To have and keep a biological child without a husband is one of the MOST selfish “me†oriented boomer ACTS ever. (I don’t care if your clock is ticking.) Comment by valiant venus — April 23, 2007 @ 12:05 am
This is why people accuse you of *gender-confusion*. You first claim that a woman is selfish, if she doesn’t have a *man*. Sorry, but that smacks of the worst kind of sexism.
What’s selfish is a society and people like you that would leave a single parent to struggle without support in education, health care and services to ensure the children are being raised with the resources to protect and nurture them.
Children raised without the proper education and support, are the ones you see and complain about.
I care about kids….and too many women treat them like dolls. Comment by valiant venus — April 23, 2007 @ 12:05 am
You care about kids? B*llsh*t!!! You don’t think their schools, health care and services should be provided to ensure they have positive and hopeful paths to pursue, not just criminal endeavors.
The last four court appointed (death qualified) cases I took demonstrate (in a microcosm) how important married, sober parents are to kids. Comment by valiant venus — April 23, 2007 @ 12:05 am
Now, we have the blind c*nt, trying to lead the way out of the forest of confusion. Unfortunately you’re lost on that path. While it’s important to have sober parents, statistics show that income is more important than whether there are *married* parents. You probably didn’t know that – did you st*pid little c*nt? Why does income matter? Because income can provide the education, health care and services necessary to support a child’s growth.
If you check with the DOJ you will see the numbers of incerated illegitimate “children†– if you’re human, you will weep. Tooodles……..
Comment by valiant venus — April 23, 2007 @ 12:05 am
Severe Poverty (and race) is often more of an indicator of incarceration than marriage. But then again, marriage can improve earning potential. You could also improve the living wages, and provide state support.
You’re probably unaware that internationally more children live in single family households than in the US? Are you going to blame *LIBRULS* for those ills as well?
What makes me weep, is how st*pid people like you are. How you think you’re doing good, but how your policies undermine support for the poor and especially young women who end up single moms – who you treat as *criminals*. You’re as much of the problem, as people like you don’t support birth control programs, poverty and education programs and any number of other programs which have decreased the number of poor, and brought millions out of poverty. All you can do is *whine* about social ills, without understanding their existence, or how they are to be resolved.
For instance, drugs *aren’t* illegal, and that *prohibition* is what many blame for the increase drug problems. It sure does make it easier to fund illegal wars around the world, when the CIA can make vast fortunes selling it as they did under Reagan, doesn’t it?
You’d happily flush these people down the toilet, if you could. So your *fake* concern is seen for what it is. Nothing more than an excuse to *whine* about liberals, avoid any real responsibility your side has in creating the problems of the world, and avoiding reality.
You’re a sad, st*pid little c*nt, that acts like the worst kind of misogynistic boorish piece of sh*t man. You aren’t just a disgrace to the human race, you’re a disgrace to your gender – you st*pid useless c*nt!
April 23rd, 2007 at 1:30 am#227 – Oh….you mean like fictional Murphy Brown? FYI – the VAST majority of single moms with incarcerated kids aren’t one iota like Murphy…. Thanks for playing! Comment by valiant venus — April 23, 2007 @ 12:30 am
I’ll even help you out with some statistics you probably have never heard, and certainly aren’t smart or confident enough to handle, venomous p*nis.
I suggest you pay close attention to several of those factors, including that few opportunities for success are available. Why is that? Maybe underfunding of schools? And the inadequate sex education, what part does the GOP play in that? Family poverty which increases when the GOP has its way, especially around wage control, what part does the GOP play in that?
I could go on, and on, but your “claim” of the 1960s coming to play is complete and utter b*llsh*t. If anything, it’s the swing right, that has caused the largest wage gaps in generation, the worst funding issue in public schools and the complete failure to do proper sex education.
So what does that make you? Not only ignorant, but also a hypocrite, as usual.
You, sad, st*pid little girl. You really are completely useless c*nt.
April 23rd, 2007 at 1:37 amValiantVenusGrewFromUranus:
You REALLY think Trent Lott expressing a birthday wish for Strom Thurmond was worse than Harry Reid claiming the current war is lost?!
April 23rd, 2007 at 1:42 amAlso, is it somehow better to use the word “c*nt” with an asterisk rather than without?
April 23rd, 2007 at 1:47 amYou REALLY think Trent Lott expressing a birthday wish for Strom Thurmond was worse than Harry Reid claiming the current war is lost?!
Comment by Dan — April 23, 2007 @ 1:42 am
You REALLY think Trent Lott longing for segregation and oppression of black people is worse than Harry Reid pointing out the position that the Pentagon has already reached?
You really are so st*pid you can’t see the difference?
The Trent Lott comment expressed racism, and bigotry – period, and a “what the world might be in tar-baby land”.
The Reid comment expressed an honest critique of the military situation, echoed by *reality*.
So in your world, speaking the truth is WRONG?
BAHAHAHA, spoken like a wingnut idiot!
April 23rd, 2007 at 1:53 amAlso, is it somehow better to use the word “c*nt†with an asterisk rather than without? Comment by Dan — April 23, 2007 @ 1:47 am
You tell me? I’m betting you prefer it without it – don’t you SON?
April 23rd, 2007 at 1:53 amTo have and keep a biological child without a husband is one of the MOST selfish “me†oriented boomer ACTS ever. (I don’t care if your clock is ticking.) I care about kids….and too many women treat them like dolls.
….Unfortunately, certain prog women can’t understand (or in any way accept the fact) fairly intelligent women who disagree with them. They don’t call them cat fights for nothing
comment by vermin venus
What a crock: as if single women never bore and kept their children before the 1960s!
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:06 amAnd you care so much about kids that you make jokes about dead ones, eh?
I’ve never seen any sign that you actually accept thinking different from yours. Either you call progressives/liberals “confused and guilt-wracked” or else “traitors who give comfort to the enemy.”
Your last sentence is poorly constructed and normally the “them” should refer to the “women” discussed in the previous line. I will give you the benefit of doubt by assuming that you mean here “fights between women” and not “women,” but, anyway, in the real feline world it’s usually the Toms who have the fights.
Noodle-loo, 阿呆!
The Pentagon has never claimed the war in Iraq is “lost”, liar.
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:08 amThe Pentagon has never claimed the war in Iraq is “lostâ€, liar.
Comment by Dan — April 23, 2007 @ 2:08 am
The last report described Iraq in terms of a civil war. We (as a party not fighting), can’t win a civil war in Iraq – st*pid Jake*ss.
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:49 amSo, do we have to live up to Newt’s standard of “humanization?” If so, I would like him to attempt at a fair declaration of what is human or not so I can attack it more specifically.
April 23rd, 2007 at 4:09 amPerhaps Newt might consider that the degradation of the sanctity of life with in our culture can be tied to 60 years of post-world war II battles and wars. Many of these wars driven by neo-conservative agendas. The non-stop imagery of soldiers in battle likely has more to do with the desensitization of the public and our youth to violence than movies, tv or videos. In fact an argument could be made that culture and art more times than not reflect the political climate versus the reverse trend he seems to be making a case for.
April 23rd, 2007 at 4:10 amIt’s time we turned this “elitism” sword the conservatives use against them. We should start talking about the “financial elite.” I’ve never invented buzzword before. How do you do it?
The “financial elite” have manipulated the country so that an even greater proportion of the wealth is concentrated in fewer people and the decisions we made are based on corporations rather than on what is good and true and needed for the people.
What other petty dictators are we supporting today that we will have to fight tomorrow, just to satisfy the perogatives of the financial elitists? Has anyone thought of that?
April 23rd, 2007 at 4:19 amThe bickering that goes on in this forum is a great reason why terrorists want to destroy America.
April 23rd, 2007 at 5:05 amI have a responsibility as a parent to raise up my children to respect others and I should watch what they do on the internet and what kind of games they play and what is put in front of their eyes.
April 23rd, 2007 at 5:16 amI would like guns to be banned completely and not be available to the public.
Has any collective not been blamed yet?
I blame morlocks!
If the USA is going to restrict political free speech they should start by conservative vultures who feed on tragic events like the VT crimes. What this idiot does is several times much worse than using prostitute or pimp costumes for fun. How is using an unrelated crime to restrict political free speech by blaming the crime on it an acceptable moral behavior?
April 23rd, 2007 at 5:41 amWhen all you ever do is screw up, you’ve got to blame someone else. This is part of the psychopathology of the Right.
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:34 amNewt Gingrich; todays worst person in the world.
April 23rd, 2007 at 7:07 amDan, how is what Sen Reid said worse than advocating segregation. One is a statement of fact, the other is racist fantasy. Acknowledging there is no military solution means facing up to the need to change direction.
Actually, Lott’s fantasy is a lot like Bush’s fantasy. It’s a fundamental denial of reality. It’s as if Republican’s had a gambling addiction and felt that just one more surge would pay off BIG TIME. Statistically, it ain’t gonna happen.
Valiant Venus, I’m happy you had such a good time playing with your boisterous family. But I wouldn’t call what you do argumentation, it’s more bickering and backbiting. And calling it sport only reminds me of King Lear’s line
April 23rd, 2007 at 7:19 amActually its the republicans whom are to blame. They slash socal programs to help mentally ill people, and are sleeping with the gun lobby. And their beliefs in seperatism have greatly divided the country.
April 23rd, 2007 at 9:00 amHe’s correct, Liberalism is the major corrupting force in the United States. Where have our morals gone?
It’s disgusting to me that the Liberals in this country allow themselves to be spoon-fed by the nightly news. These news company’s are making MILLIONS of dollars off of these kid’s deaths, even releasing video tape of the killer, and basically slapping the family’s of the victims in the face over and over again. If you were those family’s would you want to turn on the tv and see the killer time and time again? Who are they glorifying??? And Newt is the problem? You’ve got to be kidding me!
This is what Newt was talking about, the fact that nothing is sacred to Liberals, except for Political Correctness. Newt first and foremost is a CONSERVATIVE, not simply a Republican. He believes in trying to conserve what has made our country a great place to live.
Liberalism IS a disease, it IS a major problem in this country. I could go on, but why bother. So many of you have your heads so far up your own asses it’s not even funny
April 23rd, 2007 at 10:13 am#250 – “But I wouldn’t call what you do argumentation, it’s more bickering and backbiting. And calling it sport only reminds me of King Lear’s line”
Comment by david
Spoken like a true bench warmer. Do not make the foolish assumption that you know how my siblings, etc. discuss politics and social issues. This forum allows those without a great amount of time to suggest alternative points without grand dissertations.
I’m certain TP will have an interesting thread discussing, for example, the merits of electing a (more) Socialist public trough spender in France vs. a tax cutter to help stimulate that sluggish, and increasingly irrelevant country. Should be fun!
April 23rd, 2007 at 10:21 amIf the teachers had been armed, a lot of this may have been avoided.
April 23rd, 2007 at 10:36 amIt’s disgusting to me that the Liberals in this country allow themselves to be spoon-fed by the nightly news. These news company’s(SIC) are making MILLIONS of dollars off of these kid’s(SIC) deaths, even releasing video tape of the killer, and basically slapping the family’s(SIC) of the victims in the face over and over again. If you were those family’s(SIC) would you want to turn on the tv and see the killer time and time again? ……
Liberalism IS a disease, it IS a major problem in this country. I could go on, but why bother.
Comment by me(ss)
Your comment is so off-kilter that at first I thought you were writing a parody of neoCON ideas. I won’t even bother refuting most of your ignorance. But are you really trying to convince us that the very conservative FOX News didn’t show the same tape and deaths and that rightwingers are never spoon-fed by the nightly FAUX News?
April 23rd, 2007 at 10:40 amI would also like to advise you to learn the difference between the possessive and the plural sense in basic English grammar–something I recall learning in elementary school. But why bother? (This is actually a question, though you don’t seem to know that.) I haven’t seen a troll here yet who could write decent English.
If the teachers had been armed, a lot of this may have been avoided.
Comment by Douglas G. — April 23, 2007 @ 10:36 am
You know what, I am actually willing to indulge this experiment. Let’s arm everyone (non-felon) in the nation for a year and see if the violent crime/murder rate goes up or down. Taking bets now.
April 23rd, 2007 at 10:44 amFor more information on the victims of this terrible tragedy, there is a great website here:
http://www.bloggingwv.com/virginia-tech-victims-list-and-their-myspace-pages/
April 23rd, 2007 at 11:05 amHe should blame his white hair on the Liberals. They’ve caused him so much worry and fret. He should blame his pasty white skin on the Liberals, they’ve driven him indoors because of their wild ways. He should blame his womanizing on the liberals, those darned liberal sex attitudes! This man is a totla crazed lunatic like all the righties are.
April 23rd, 2007 at 11:05 amJAG
April 23rd, 2007 at 11:12 amYou forgot to say that “he should blame his pudginess on the liberals. Damned Liberals, they know how to cook well!”
Once again, Newt shows us just how out of touch with reality he is.
April 23rd, 2007 at 11:23 amWasn’t it the Liberal elite that decided our students didn’t have the right to protect themselves? When you put our children in harm’s way and then take away their right to protect themselves, YOU ARE AT FAULT.
April 23rd, 2007 at 11:52 amThis man is right, the liberals continually want to loosen the laws, hide the religious origins of the US, and allow more and more bad things to happen in this country.
April 23rd, 2007 at 12:50 pmYou can polish a turd and run him out there again to speak for the authoritarian right–but he’s still just a turd.
April 23rd, 2007 at 1:02 pmComment by Me — April 23, 2007 @ 10:13 am
And you probably support the chimp and listen to that lard assed, drug addled, gas bag, who takes Viagra to help him bang fourteen year old hookers in the Dominican Republic…please tell more abour your morals, shit for brains.
April 23rd, 2007 at 1:50 pmI have to say “WOW!”. I read this thread and could not believe my eyes. If I were to decide what the problem in this country is based exclusively on this post, I would conclude that people are simply obsesed with making broad, sweeping generalizations. Liberals this republicans that! What pointless drivle. People are ALL different and that is the ONLY thing that makes us the “same”. I hate to indulge in those ways but here goes: Anyone who generalizes as such about important and complicated subjects as these is at best ignorant or worse, intentionally misleading. And now I must apologize for in reality after reading this I was not surprised at all since this is exactly how most of these posts turn out. But thanks to all who posted since your posts were either amusing, some actually informative but most just entertaining. My condolences to those who lost in this tragedy and shame on those who would use this to further your own agendas.
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:06 pmRoger_Roger
Wait, are you advocating giving hormonal 13-18 year olds guns?
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:18 pm#261 already tested. There is a city in georgia that requires all citizen over 18 to be armed, and their crime rate is almost ZERO!!!
http://www.topix.net/content/reuters/3461942589269215633934874432060019077598
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:53 pmDoes anybody understand what the hell Newt was trying to say?
Does Newt understand what he was trying to say?
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:24 pm#272, I doubt that Kennesaw’s crime rate is almost zero. Certainly not for a city that size. Also, only 50% of it’s residents now own guns, according to the city’s latest information. The law, of course, has never been inforced.
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:33 pmWrong Newt,
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:35 pmMorality doesn’t belong to the Republicans or the Democrats. Furthermore it belongs to America only as long as it’s people continue to love justice and do good. Replace moral judgment with situational ethics and soon anything can be justified including the depaved. As a societies capacity for moral judgements becomes impaired, with that impairment comes a waning lack of willingness to pass moral judgement and with lack of judgment comes the consequences of depravity. Once a society loses it’s aility to govern from a moral grounding we all lose and civilzation becomes uncivilized.
It’s close enough. here are the actual statistics using the 2003 FBI data.
http://www.cityrating.com/citycrime.asp?city=Kennesaw&state=GA
State: GA
City Population: 25,183
Murder: 1
Forcible Rape: 0
Robbery: 7
Aggravated Assault: 15
Burglary: 89
Larceny or Theft: 455
Car Theft: 47
Arson: 0
I meant to use the term “VIOLENT CRIME” earlier in my statement. Compared to the national averages this city appears to be the place to live!
April 23rd, 2007 at 4:04 pmJust how brain dead would you have to be to buy *that* load he is shoveling? That isn’t Republican vs. Democrat or Conservative vs. Liberal – that’s abject stupidity vs. common sense.
Newt’s a loser.
April 23rd, 2007 at 5:30 pmWho the hell is Nuett Gengrich?
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:19 pmSTEPHANOPOULOS: But what does that have to do with liberalism?
No George, wrong question – what does Gingrich’s inane blather have to do with untreated mental illness and easy access to firearms?! When will these partisan troglodytes stop blaming these massacres on everything except the 800 lb gorilla in the room, too many guns?!
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:49 pmI meant to use the term “VIOLENT CRIME†earlier in my statement. Compared to the national averages this city appears to be the place to live!
Comment by Douglas G. — April 23, 2007 @ 4:04 pm
Yes, the policies of a town of 30,000 people would translate very well to say New York City.
April 23rd, 2007 at 7:14 pmI meant to use the term “VIOLENT CRIME†earlier in my statement. Compared to the national averages this city appears to be the place to live!
Comment by Douglas G.
Nobody’s stopping you, Douglas. So go live there.
April 23rd, 2007 at 7:33 pmSo why is he be given the opportunity to speak about this on national television?
Why was he invited to say what anyone who knows anything about the guy knew he would say?
The guy is a bomb thrower, and I feel it best to ignore him and not waste time talking about his bs because that only gives it life. Ignore his bs. And I think the same is true with the president of the united states naming bin Laden in his pseeeches, over and over and over again.
Talking about him gives his “ideas” weight.
Next topic.
April 23rd, 2007 at 8:54 pmdavid re: #255
1) I doubt Lott was advocating a return to segregation.
2) Even if he was, it’s not going to happen.
3) Saying there’s “no military solution” is vastly different than “we’ve lost the war.”
April 23rd, 2007 at 9:04 pmerock re: #261 Did you see Douglas G’s example of the Georgia town where this experiment was already a huge success?
April 23rd, 2007 at 9:07 pmFox? Conservative? Give me a freaking break. Next time point out the flaws in someones ideology, not their grammar.
http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/pictures033104.html
April 23rd, 2007 at 11:36 pmFox? Conservative? Give me a freaking break. Next time point out the flaws in someones ideology, not their grammar.
Warning: not for minors, possibly NSFW
April 23rd, 2007 at 11:36 pmhttp://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/pictures033104.html
(me)ss,
April 24th, 2007 at 12:02 amNo one here but you considers Fox News “liberal.” A lot of us don’t even consider NBC, CBS, ABC or CNN particularly “liberal.” That’s one place where the flaws in your ideology begin.
(me)ss,
April 24th, 2007 at 2:45 amI looked at the website you posted. I don’t even know what you think it proves. Another flaw in your “ideology:” taking thrice-married, serial adulterer Newt Gingrich as a moral authority. Give us a break!
erock re: #261 Did you see Douglas G’s example of the Georgia town where this experiment was already a huge success?
Comment by Dan
Erock brought up whether the record for a Georgia town with less than 30,000 people would translate well for NYC, implying that it wouldn’t.
April 24th, 2007 at 2:56 amInstead of insisting that the Georgian town is the only valid measure, you might try comparing the violent crime rate in Tokyo or any other large city in Japan, which has strick gun controls, with that of NYC or any large US city. The annual murders in all of the large Japanese cities combined don’t even approach the figure for one large US city.
Re#289: typo: “strick” should be “strict”
April 24th, 2007 at 3:52 amMaybe “Little Newt” is a liberal…
April 24th, 2007 at 9:34 am“No one here but you considers Fox News “liberal.†A lot of us don’t even consider NBC, CBS, ABC or CNN particularly “liberal.†That’s one place where the flaws in your ideology begin.”
So by this we can conclude that 24 hour coverage of Anna Nicole Smith is ‘conservative’?
Perhaps it was harsh to say that the stations are completely Liberal, but they do have a liberal bias.
Have a nice life.
April 24th, 2007 at 6:08 pmme(ss)
April 24th, 2007 at 6:18 pmLiberals aren’t interested in 24-hr. coverage of Anna Nicole Smith, period.
I have a nice life, thank you.
Newt Gingrich, the Republican hypocrite adulturer, has yet again demonstrated that he has no heart or soul, and why the Republicans lost both the House and Senate. His comment about the Virginia Tech tragedy is unbelievable, even for him. Someone please give him (and his party) back his heart and soul because he really needs it. The man is a disgrace.
April 25th, 2007 at 10:57 amDo you people really even know what side you’re on? I mean, you attack Newt/conservatives/Republicans for their opinion that liberals are to blame by saying in your attack that Newt/conservatives/Republicans are to blame. In other words, you thrown stones back at a person who threw stones, yet you want to claim you are not like your adversary?
Come on…get off Newt….everyone is an attack dog -even you liberals- and if you say you’re not, then you’re not seeing your part in any mess this world is in, and that is what is wrong with humans wanting to find answers by blaming someone else.
In my opinion, the whole liberal/conservative politics needs to stop being the focus of what drives human nature in the ways they act, react etc. Instead, all humans need to find ways to maintain their independence and individuality while harming no one in the process lest it be your own self and only your own self with no collateral damage.
People need to stop wanting to drag others into the messes they make of their own lives. But why don’t they? Because we live in times where it’s always someone else’s fault. It’s the liberals, or it’s the conservatives, or it’s the warmongers, or it’s the Radical Islamists or the people who drive SUVs, etc…..
we live in times where we feel a need to join groups and then uphold that group mentality or else feel we don’t belong to anything. Too often these groups are not out to foster their beliefs, but to attack the beliefs of others. Once we find our scapegoat, so to speak, we are reluctant to switch our thought patterns for fear of not belonging to the group anymore….we are afraid to be alone in our opinions so we echo the daily phrases of our group leaders without really giving a thought to what traps we might be being dragged into or whose loud-mouth personal agenda we may be blindly supporting….so we have prospered a copy cat society that can’t think for themselves as we thus divide ourselves along group lines…. and the problem with that is that makes us lemmings doomed to run off some cliff and not realize we have made a mistake until it’s too late to turn back so we must then justify our mistake by blaming it one someone else because it feels too bad to say, oh I screwed up. We live in a society afraid to be wrong or be seen as wrong. We must all be proud only if we are right…and I accuse the school system’s psychology of control for that one, but that’s another story. (but notice I said the psychology which is an abstract, not the school as in teachers who are people)
So….the Va Tech massacre and others like it are a result of jerks doing what they want to do to anyone they want to do it to. It is a result of blaming others just like is happening with so many messages on here. Blame needs to be stopped and the word changed from ‘blame’ to ’cause and effect’ of infringing on the rights of others. Easy, isn’t it? If you can bring yourself to it.
April 26th, 2007 at 5:43 amThe conservatives have been in charge for 12 years. WTF is he talking about? If parents didn’t let their kids dress up like pimps and prostitutes for Halloween this wouldn’t have happened? Who cuts the mental health funding? Liberals? Who insists on lax gun laws? Liberals?
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