Exclusive: Army Sgt. Questions Why American Flags Lowered For VA Tech Students, But Not Troops
Exclusive: Army Sgt. Questions Why American Flags Lowered For VA Tech Students, But Not Troops
Last week, President Bush commemorated the Virginia Tech massacre in his radio address, at the White House correspondents dinner, and in a speech at the college’s convocation. He also ordered that American flags be flown at half-staff for one week.
Today in a “rare opinion article” obtained by ThinkProgress HERE, Army Sgt. Jim Wilt commended the President’s honoring of the Virginia Tech students, but wondered why he — and the American public — don’t pay as much attention to the U.S. troops who die in Iraq every day:
Following the deaths of 32 Virginia Tech students, the President of the United States ordered that all American flags be flown at half-staff for one week. …
But I find it ironic that the flags were flown at half-staff for the young men and women who were killed at VT yet it is never lowered for the death of a U.S. servicemember.
Is the life of Sgt. Alexander Van Aalten, a member of our very own task force, killed April 20 in Helmand province not valued the same as these 32 students? Surely his death was as violent as the students.
Aalten’s death lacked the shock factor of the Virginia massacre. It is a daily occurrence these days to see X number of U.S. troops killed in Iraq or Afghanistan scrolling across the ticker at the bottom of the TV screen. People have come to expect casualty counts in the nightly news; they don’t expect to see 32 students killed.
Six U.S. soldiers died on the day of the Virginia Tech shooting. In total, 3312 U.S. troops have died in the Iraq war and 337 in Afghanistan.
Last week, University of Michigan Professor Juan Cole also pointed out that Iraqis have to deal with these types of tragic massacres on a daily basis.
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We should just fly all flags at half-staff continuously until 2009.
While we're at it, turn all the flags upside down as well.
April 23rd, 2007 at 1:39 pmExcellent question Sgt. Wilts.
Our flags should have been at half mast since March 17, 2003.
April 23rd, 2007 at 1:39 pmThe reason, Sgt. Stupidass, is because flags would be permanently at half mast because Americans are dying every day in Iraq. Furthermore, Sgt. Stupidass, the government doesn't want this public reminder of the carnage. That's bad for Presidential approval polls.
April 23rd, 2007 at 1:42 pmThis man does not support the president or his country. How dare he say such a thing, we're at war darn it!!!
April 23rd, 2007 at 1:45 pmMy flags flying upside down again....Like last year....I wonder how many will know what it mean's.? Most just looked and kept walking...On the good side, many more of the troop's are speaking out, here and over there....Blessings
April 23rd, 2007 at 1:45 pmbut bush can't acknowledge military deaths without acknowledging his own complicity in those deaths. his hands are much less bloody from VT, although he is against resonable gun control. If those who died in Blacksburgh had died in Baghdad, bush wouldn't blink an eye.
April 23rd, 2007 at 1:46 pmIt's all theater to Bush. Flying flags at half-staff every day would be another reminder that American soldiers are being killed every day. This would be bad for Bush's "we're making progress in Iraq" message.
April 23rd, 2007 at 1:46 pmError! 3323 soldiers have died, per link in Amanda's article.
April 23rd, 2007 at 1:47 pm"Comment by dave — April 23, 2007 @ 1:42 pm"
How about showing a LITTLE respect for our soldiers?????
It's one thing to be sarcastic about what he is talking about, but it is another to insult him the way you did.
April 23rd, 2007 at 1:48 pmI believe that flags were ordered lowered after Tillman's death.
April 23rd, 2007 at 1:48 pmCheering on the dead again.
April 23rd, 2007 at 1:48 pmSharon:
I believe flying the flag upside down is an internationally-recognized distress signal.
April 23rd, 2007 at 1:50 pmUmm - well ya see...
You troops are only a motto for the right wingers to use. Sorry but really your lives mean nothing to them. They just wanted to get a few oil contracts signed, get 100,000 more terrorists recruited (that was missions accomplished).
Just look at all the defenders of this war, who fight it so bravely here..
Jake, Dan, Patrick, Valiunt, and so on. My god they might break a nail or something. Those are the true warriors, hell they have sacrificed so much for their nation I vote we replace the 50 stars, with 50 little crosses.
I'm sorry Sgt, you're just cannon fodder for Exxon, Mobile, Walmart, and so on.
Welcome to Amerikkka!
April 23rd, 2007 at 1:51 pmCheering on the dead again.
Comment by Patrick1 — April 23, 2007 @ 1:48 pm
Yes, we know you are cheering on the dead again.
April 23rd, 2007 at 1:51 pmThank you SGT. Wilt for your service and for your question. Flying the flag at half mast shows a nation in mourning. The president doesn't believe the deaths of the military in Iraq and Afghanistan have risen to the level of deserving national mourning. The citizens do but the Decider doesn't.
April 23rd, 2007 at 1:52 pmPresident Bush has said time and time again the troops that die in Iraq are numbers. He even had Connie Rice explain the same thing as did Tony Snow. Americans just don't want to listen to Bush's answers and it is plainly he doesn't care about the death of our soldiers, he wants Congress to give him the money he asked for. If only American would put their heads out of the sand and look at what Bush has done so far for the troops. Has everyone forgot about Walter Reed already. Bush is busy as President/Dictator of Iraq right now. Maliki wants the wall down Iraq Dictator Bush wants it up. So the wall will go up per the President/Dictators orders. If the troops are waiting for Bush to care well let's just say did he go to Vietnam NO well he wont care about the soldiers.
April 23rd, 2007 at 1:53 pmDon't look for Cheney to step in his busy packing up his money to off shore accounts and as a five deferment man he wouldn't know how to spell Military.
re # 3
dave,
Did you read the opinon piece before you barked? What do you want, self imolation? Sgt Wilt is doing what he can. If all you want is to score points, by all means fire away at the ideologically impure, I would rather build a real coliltion of the willing and bring everyone home. But that will include folks who aren't as ferverntly antiwar as me.
April 23rd, 2007 at 1:53 pmPatrick1 sez:
Patrick, do you even read what you type??? "Cheering on the dead" doesn't make even a minimal amount of sense...it's stupid even by your abysmally low standards.
April 23rd, 2007 at 1:53 pmI have no respect for people who don't think before they speak. That he doesn't know the answer to his own stupid question speaks volumes about how clueless he is.
And apparently those little ribbons on the SUV's are a show of respect for the soldiers.
April 23rd, 2007 at 1:53 pmAlfred sez:
Of course they were. Tillman's death (at least the heavily fictionalized administration account of Tillman's death) was politically expedient.
April 23rd, 2007 at 1:54 pmThe president doesn't give a rats ass about the troops. Now the defense contractors that's another thing, part of "the base" don't ya know.
April 23rd, 2007 at 1:55 pmSgt. Wilt, methinks you should ask your so-called "commander-in-chief" about this. It was his perogative.
April 23rd, 2007 at 1:55 pmWhy does Army Sgt. Wilts hate our troops?
Wait a minute, that didn't come out right... um, why does Army Sgt. Wilts want to see the terrorists win and America lose?
Still sounds wrong... ah! Now I got it. Army Sgt. Wilts must be a liberal Democrat! That explains it!
April 23rd, 2007 at 1:56 pmdave sez:
Perhaps he does know the answer to his own question. Perhaps the only way he can speak out against this administration's policies without getting court-martialed is to phrase in the form of a question...a question he can claim was not rhetorical, even though it most obviously is...
Perhaps he's not as 'clueless' as you would like to believe...
April 23rd, 2007 at 1:57 pm"I have no respect for people who don’t think before they speak. That he doesn’t know the answer to his own stupid question speaks volumes about how clueless he is.
Comment by dave — April 23, 2007 @ 1:53 pm"
Have YOU ever stopped to THINK that perhaps he was putting in a manner that most people have not given it a thought about?????
It might be a STUPID question to you, but to many it is something they have not given ANY thought to.
As a Vet, I find your ASSININE comment revolting and would love to see you fighting in Iraq to see that no one here lowers a flag for your brother, but can for kids not fighting a "war" for this country.
Why don't YOU try and take your own advice and THINK before you speak?
April 23rd, 2007 at 1:59 pmTripMaster Monkey:
Then it is not "ironic" that the flags were flown at half-staff for the young men and women who were killed at VT yet "never" lowered for the death of a U.S. servicemember.
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:00 pmDo you know what a rhetorical question is?
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:01 pmre #s 24, 25
right on!
dave, try to figure out the difference between a left wing ideologe and a liberal...
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:04 pmIf the President hadn't directed flags to be flown for VT, people would've whined.
If the President had flags flown every time a soldier lost his/her life, people would've whined.
If the President never had the flags flown, people would've whined.
Flags are normally flown at half-mast
.
So here's a question... should we fly the flags at half-staff when a servicemember dies during training? What about during a peace-time exercise? Aren't those soldiers just as important as the ones dying in battle?
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:09 pmToday Military Bases observed a moment of silence, and we have NEVER had a moment of silence for fallen troops in the middle east.
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:12 pm
Extra kudos to Spudge boy with the rhetorical question in describing the rhetorical question. Dave's veiw of respect and those deserving of it is different than the vast majority here. Your responses are more than sufficient in showing disgust/anger at Dave's post.
I don't believe this President has any idea how to accurately honor those that have fallen for this cause. It will take the American people to stand up and lead.
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:12 pm"So here’s a question… should we fly the flags at half-staff when a servicemember dies during training? What about during a peace-time exercise? Aren’t those soldiers just as important as the ones dying in battle?
Comment by Dale — April 23, 2007 @ 2:09 pm"
No that's not the question........
I'll say this as slow as I can for your simpleton mind.....
It....is....about.....the.....fact......that.....the....flags....were......lowered.....for......people.....who.....are.....not......sacraficing.....for.....thier.....country!!!!!
As you pointed out.... The flags should not belowered for something like this. If you are NOT going to honor people dying for the country in a ILLEGAL war, then why lower it for a senseless crime???
But then again, I don't expect an intelligent answer from someone who thinks the way you do.
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:16 pm"Army Sgt. Questions Why American Flags Lowered For VA Tech Students, But Not Troops"
Because according to the Numbnut-In-Chief troops are commas!
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:18 pmRemoveBush:
Did you see my point above about Tillman's death? Bush also ordered flags lowered in remembrance of the 9/11 attacks, the death of Pope John Paul II, the Space Shuttle Columbia disaster in 2003, the victims of Hurricane Katrina, the Indian Ocean earthquake and tsunami victims, and the deaths of Coretta Scott King and Rosa Parks. The honor was at least as deserving for the victims at Virginia Tech. Get over it.
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:21 pm"Alfred" sez:
You're joking, right? Please tell me you're joking...I'd hate to have to believe you're seriously this stupid.
Are you really trying to point to this administration lying about Tillman's death for political gain as refutation of Sgt. Wilt's question?
This is completely morally bankrupt, even for you. And yes, we know who you are.
Oh, and BTW, (in case there was any doubt), here's a quote from you on the Sheryl Crow thread (emphasis mine):
Troll on, Shakey.
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:23 pmIn Indiana, the governor, a republican that used to work fro Bush, orders flags to flown at 1/2 staff when a soldier from Indiana is killed. I mistakenly assumed it was a national thing. IIRC, Michigan's governor does the same thing.
Sad that the man that sent them there doesn't show the same respect. What's sad is that it's been months since I've seen a flag at full staff.
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:23 pm"should we fly the flags at half-staff when a servicemember dies during training? What about during a peace-time exercise? Aren’t those soldiers just as important as the ones dying in battle?"
the difference in not a question of individual importance, but of a needless and senseless loss of life. Those who died at VT don't fit your requirements for flying the flag at half mast but it seems like the right thing to do to acknowledge, on a national scale, the senselessness, the tragedy of their deaths. Soldiers who die in training exercises are accidental deaths and are tragic losses for their loved ones, soldiers who die in a needless, wasteful war die a tragic and needless death on a national scale.
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:23 pm"Get over it.
Comment by Alfred — April 23, 2007 @ 2:21 pm"
"Get over" WHAT????
Was I addressing YOU?
I was addressing someone else who was insulting a SGT in the military.
YOU GET OVER IT!!!!
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:24 pmDale sez:
Oh...is that all it takes to change policy in this country? "Whining"?
Well, Dale, there's a solid majority of Americans that are "whining" that we should be leaving Iraq. When can we expect the policy change on that issue?
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:26 pmWell troll alfred, we all know what should be and under dictator in charge it is rarely the case of what should be....Given the state of our country all flag's should be flown upside down and at half mast untill we get these pieces of garbage out of our administration....
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:30 pmI agree, we should honor our troops more. We should be upset when anyone treats our falling troops without respect. Senetor Reid is a prime example. This man has declared our troops have failed. Furthermore, he has decided that we need to not care about their sacrifice by leaving Iraq. he dishonors all our troops and also shows no care for the Iraqi people his speech hurt so much. Does he believe his "we are a failure" speech will somehow help the Iraqis gain the Democracy and Freedom they deserve? Or does he simply not care about the Iraqis?
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:33 pmFor those who are interested, here's the entire text of Sgt. Wilt's opinion article:
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:34 pm
This is a stupid thread.
Of course, that doesn't differentiate much it from lots of others.
Why doesn't President Bush just consult the liberal bible -- The Book of Political Correctness -- and he can look up which dead Americans deserve the half-mast treatment.
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:34 pmMaybe you right wingers would, but us lefties wouldn't.
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:35 pmWhy does Bush hate our troops?
What does he think - that the troops get themselves killed so he will look bad?
He professes to love and respect the troops, even as he cuts their benefits, sends them into battle ill-prepared, refuses to attend their funerals, or even lower the flag in respect.
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:35 pmHe is a user of men.
Uh, maybe when we become a democracy instead of a representative republic?
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:37 pmI don't understand why trolls continue to visit here when our comments are so upsetting to them -- it's not like we are allowed to post on the conservative sites.
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:37 pm"Comment by Roger_Roger — April 23, 2007 @ 2:33 pm"
Roger square head......
Reid did not say anything about "our troops"!!!!
He said the POLICY has failed!!!
Now pick up a riffle and support your failed presidents policy or STFU!
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:39 pmBush stopped everything and flew his 747 to Blacksburg. He has yet to attend a funeral where the coffin had an American flag on it and has baned cameras filming the home delivery.
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:39 pmSupport our troops?
TripMaster Monkey:
I am "seriously" refuting the premise that American flags have "never" been ordered lowered for any U.S. serviceman killed in Iraq, and therefore the conclusion that such a make-believe situation is "ironic." As for Sheryl Crow, I don't think she was being rude to Karl Rove. What does that have to do with flying the American flag at half-staff?
RemoveBush:
I was not addressing TripMaster Monkey, yet she chimed in. As I pointed out, the honor was at least as deserving for the victims at Virginia Tech. You don't think I am "insulting" Army Sgt. Jim Wilt?
Sharon:
I disagree.
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:39 pmI have been wondering the very same thing. Why aren't we flying the "Flag" at half mast for our fallen troops. Even if it does mean we fly them every day until we remove the current White House administration and its politics. Will America never rise up and DEMAND that our troops be redeployed immediately.
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:40 pmAnother note, why is it that Mr. Bush visited Virginia Tech (funerals?) But to date has not attended the funerals of our fallen soldiers who have died horrific deaths in the middle east. Our values seem to extend only to those in school and not to those who 'serve'.
roger_roger
you may think the troops have failed, but reid doesn't. he has said that that adminsitration has failed, the policy has failed, the war plan has failed. he is stating the obivious, only cowards like bush, rush, and you are hiding behind the troops. how has this war succeeded? Do you care about the iraqis? they are dying in droves. horribly. there is nothing we can do about it. not now, not 10 years from now. by all means offer a solution if you have one, otherwise quit blaming other people for your mistakes, you republican coward.
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:41 pmre # 46
"Uh, maybe when we become a democracy instead of a representative republic?"
or a democracy instead of a right-wing facist dictatorship lead by a hand puppet and a cyborg. and "uh" is the most intelligent thing you've ever posted here.
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:44 pmI don't believe the majority of trolls who post here find our comments upsetting.
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:44 pmMore than a few post here simply to annoy, rile, distort, and in general get their jollies by insulting sensible discourse.
And there is the handful who are just plain wacko....
So, then explain why we aren't spreading representative republic in Iraq. Why are we pushing them into a form of government we don't use?
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:44 pmSo c'mon over to HotAir and post there (when registration opens). As long as you're respectful to other posters, you're more than welcome.
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:45 pmGood post's Marie, in answer to your question." why do troll's post here"..Given how stupid they all are bet they are not welcome even on the red sight's..LOL..Like R2 they are all just black hearted little troll's that change the subject to suit their mindless masterbation..Lame posting and made up crap, to much sugar in the kool aid that bush and rove supply them.....Blessings
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:45 pm"Alfred" sez:
Say, "Alfred", before we go any further, could you please produce a link showing that Chimpy ordered the flag to be flown at half-mast for Tillman? I can't seem to find one...but seeing as how it's your talking point, I'm sure you already have a reference lined up.
(P.S.: You know I'm male, Jake...as surely as I know you're Jake. ^_^ )
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:45 pmFrom Crooks and Liars:
History will be made today when Copperas Cove resident Bill Thomas and his wife, Georgia, present President George W. Bush with a Purple Heart at the Oval Office.
Thomas said he and his wife came up with the unprecedented idea to present the president with the Purple Heart over breakfast one morning a few months ago as they discussed the verbal attacks, both foreign and domestic, the commander in chief has withstood during his time in office.
"We feel like emotional wounds and scars are as hard to carry as physical wounds," Thomas said. [. . .]
First Purple Heart bandages, and now this? Is there any clearer indication that republicans place party over country? This little stunt devalues what Purple Hearts have always represented. I'll bet all the other Purple Heart recipients, who got them in this bogus war, really feel honored to be in such august company as a guy who skipped out on his service. Way to show your naked partisanship, dude. It devalues your service, even if you don't yet know it.
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:46 pmDale sez:
So....how do you reconcile this with your earlier statement?
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:47 pmAnd with this formatting, we know beyond a doubt that Alfred IS jake.
What is it about trolls that they can't figure out that it is their style and formatting that gives them away. If you use a catch phrase, it gives you away.
What is even more astonishing is that we tell them that it is their style and formatting and yet, they go right back to the only thing they know.
Much like their talking points. Always the same old already debunked bullsh!t.
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:47 pmOur Governor requires the American flag to be flown at half staff whenever a soldier from New Mexico is slain.
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:48 pmI believe a number of other states (with Democratic governors) do the same....
I'm not Jake, but I will look for a link on Tillman.
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:48 pm#52, if the Dems are so interested in supporting the troops, why did only one Democrat (Levin) attend a briefing by Gen. Petraeus earlier this month?
The Dems are invested in defeat in Iraq; anything else won't meet their political plans.
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:48 pmI need to send a new batch of trolls to this site. The group I deployed here SUCK!
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:50 pmThis article that Sgt Wilt wrote is one of the best articles I have read about what a true soldier truely wishes. For all you F'ing Trolls who seem to THINK you know what is good for the soldiers F'off and read this article over and over until you finally figure it out. This should be answered to the fullest by the administration but never will. Yes I am a veteran so you can save your stupid a$$ comments for someone who really gives a *hit.
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:50 pmWhich earlier statement TMM?
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:50 pmThe flags aren't lowered for our brave troops, because Bush and the rest of the Republicans in charge don't care about the deaths of troops.
Barbara Bush said on ABC's "Good Morning America" on March 18, 2003,
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:52 pm"Why should we hear about body bags and deaths. Oh, I mean, it's not relevant. So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that?"
"Alfred" sez:
Good luck with your search, Jake.
P.S.: While you're out there looking, find yourself an new alias as well, so we can play another exciting round of "Spot the Jake". This round is over.
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:52 pm"Comment by Dale — April 23, 2007 @ 2:48 pm"
Do you have any other proof?????
Sorry, but RS is NOT a credible place for news...... It is ONE SIDED and just as ignorant in it's talking points as most the trolls here....
Provide another link!
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:53 pmSo Dale, Rep. Boehner said three months ago that if the situation didn't improve in that time, he would acknowledge that the surge strategy wasn't working. Do you believe that he should now call for withdrawl? Or should he be given another Friedman? How many Friedmans should we grant them -- until we are bankrupt?
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:55 pmDale sez:
This one:
Sounds a lot like the federal half-mast policy is based mainly upon whining. Interesting, isn't it, that you would think that a federal policy should be decided thus?
If this policy, why not others? Why not the Iraq Occupation, which (unlike the half-mast policy) costs lives, both American and Iraqi, every day?
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:57 pmS_Boy:
I thought on the other thread you said I wasn't Jake? You need to get your story straight.
Tripmaster Monkey:
For the last time, I am not Jake. I could not find the Tillman link with a quick search either, but I remember it as clearly as you admitted to in your post #20. If I find a link later, I will certainly post it.
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:58 pmI’m not Jake, but I will look for a link on Tillman.
Comment by Alfred
Hi, Jake.
I occurred to me that you can deny you are "Jake" everytime one of us calls you "Jake," because that's not your actual name. That's how you can square being a morally bankrupt, common liar with your god.
If your god exists, Jake, and you believe he does, he knows what's in your heart. You're not fooling anyone -- least of all your god.
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:58 pmFor shame...
#
#52, if the Dems are so interested in supporting the troops, why did only one Democrat (Levin) attend a briefing by Gen. Petraeus earlier this month?
The Dems are invested in defeat in Iraq; anything else won’t meet their political plans.
Comment by Dale — April 23, 2007 @ 2:48 pm
Perhaps because he reports to Chimpy in charge, not the dems. And honestly dude what was Gen P going to tell us? Things are improving?
The flowers and chocolates ran out so that's why we're not longer greeted as liberators.
Dude just spend 10 minutes and wake up to reality.. The GOP have started Americas biggest F- UP since this country was founded.
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:02 pm#70, I've found other links on conservative sites, haven't had time to check C-Span, but tell me this... if it *is* true that only 1 Dem attended a Petraeus briefing, what would be your reaction?
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:03 pmUh, no, I clearly said that people would've whined no matter what action he took... read it again.
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:04 pmSo now Bush has a medal to pin on his flightsuit, as he plays dress-up with Saddam's old pistol.
"Ah'm a War Presdent, and a war herah too!"
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:05 pmSome have asked, sensibly, why many TPers devote so much attention to Jake in his many incarnations.
It's absolutely true that Jake, Elizabeth, Michael, Dan, Alfred et al disrupts the discussion on the boards and the drive to unmask him behind his latest identity sometims disrupts even more. Why not just inore him then?
The answer is that, because Jake pretends to be reasonable and interested in honest discussion of views, he can suck unwitting posters into his vortex of right-wing illogic. They take him seriously and try to respond to his posts. But his posts are just bait, his views are boring and he trafficks in dishonesty. His frequent name changes, much like a disreputable fly-by-night business, demonstrate as much.
Besides, it's not like it's difficult to spot him.
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:06 pmApril 23rd, 2007 at 3:07 pm
"Alfred" sez:
God, this is pathetic. I find myself actually pitying you.
Look around the thread. You're not fooling anyone, Shakey.
I told you early on that writing styles are like fingerprints, and your greasy ham-handed prints would be instantly obvious to anyone who has had even a nominal amount of experience with your posts. Since then, it seems that you've gone out of your way to prove me right.
We know it's you. I know it'll be a real stretch for you, but try to be enough of a man to pick one alias and stick with it. You can't escape your bankrupt credibility by madly switching screen names...all you can do is bankrupt it even further.
I admit nothing. I'm the one who demanded proof that the President ordered the half-masting (as is your insinuation), versus Gov. Janet Napolitano. Pony up or admit your lie.
We won't hold our breath, Shakey.
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:09 pmI never said you weren't Jake. You may have had me fooled for one post on another thread, but it is clear that your style and formatting that you are jake.
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:10 pmReferencing my comment on another forum... 100 times the number of soldiers and marines dead from Iraq and 1000 times as many wounded.... where is the commensurate grief and compassion? An equal response to the travesty of our troops could end this Iraq mess.
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:10 pm"if it *is* true that only 1 Dem attended a Petraeus briefing, what would be your reaction?
Comment by Dale — April 23, 2007 @ 3:03 pm"
Given ALL the LIES this administration has given Congress..... I am not surprised.....
All they were going to get is what Bush told the Gen. to tell Congress.
You tout ONE general who walks the line, but ignore and ridicule the 4 other Generals who were there and state that the war CANNOT be won militarily!
So I don't care if they showed up or not..... This, as you Repubs state, "was simply a pony show'.
If he would have spoken the truth, then he would be gone just like the many other people who tried! So do YOU really expect this Gen to tell the truth if he wants to keep his job?????
Just look at that Gen for Walter Reed! Or Gen. Sengeky (SP?), who said that it would take a min of 350,000 troops. Who also kept presenting a POST war plan and talking about it.....
So you see.... There was not really a big need to appear to hear the same lies..... I certainly want them to DRILL the crap out of him in this next update to Congress about how he can claim "progress" when there have been more deaths since the start of the "surge" than before.
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:14 pmBush admin response to soldier:"...wha? What troops? Are they in a dome too?.....wha?.....well....naw....f**k them....an tell dim to git muh awl!...."
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:17 pmFine, gentlemen. It must have all been my imagination then. SOMEONE above admitted "Of course [flags were ordered lowered after Tillman’s death]. Tillman’s death (at least the heavily fictionalized administration account of Tillman’s death) was politically expedient." So much for my devil's advocate role around here.
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:18 pmDid Dale actually post a link to redstate as proof of his position. That owuld be like us going to redstate and using Think Progress as proof. That is friggin' stupid. Get some source material.
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:21 pmoff topic,
who is the proto jake? was he/she someone who posted honestly and then slid into jake/elizebeth/Dan/alfred/micheal/john/paul/ringo/ (wait, ringo seemed more like patrick1)? I'm just curious. I got sucked into jake when i started posting a few months back but caught on pretty quick.
Back to topic, it would be difficult to fly the flag at half-mast for every war casulity, but people wouldn't be so dismissive of bush if he did acknowledge their deaths in some meaningful way, like attending one funeral a month, without tv cameras of course, and if he did stop using live soldiers as backdrops for his speechs.
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:21 pmSo much for my devil’s advocate role around here.
Comment by Alfred
Is that what you're calling it, Jake?
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:24 pmwho is the proto jake? was he/she someone who posted honestly and then slid into jake/elizebeth/Dan/alfred/micheal/john/paul/ringo/ (wait, ringo seemed more like patrick1)? I’m just curious. I got sucked into jake when i started posting a few months back but caught on pretty quick.
Comment by bob (not the hacker)
As far as I can tell, Not Hacker Bob, that particular commenter showed up as "Jake," and remained so for quite a while. It's only been the last week or so that he's been playing "Musical Names."
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:25 pmre # 86
"So much for my devil’s advocate role around here."
alfred
oh alfred don't go away, just stick with one name, ditch the ignore list, use reason and logic in your posts, stop using refuted talking points, grow some pubic hair, and join the army and fight for your beliefs.
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:26 pm"Alfred" sez:
So...let me get this straight...I make the mistake of assuming something you said is true, and now when I ask you for for proof of your statement, you point to my assumption?
Sorry, Jake, but reality doesn't work that way. I know you'd love for it to, since that would make the democratic members of congress responsible for the invasion of Iraq, even though they agreed to the invasion based upon a lie foisted upon them by the Executive Branch. Sorry, but it didn't work that way then, and it certainly doesn't work that way now.
We're still waiting, Jake. Provide proof of your assertion that Chimpy mandated that the flags be flown at half-mast in honor of Tillman, or admit your lie. Either one...I don't care which. After that, we can move forward and discuss how other aspects of your argument are fallacious.
But of course, I'm pretty sure you're not going to answer at all, are you? Just run and hide again, and pull on a brand new mask, now that "Alfred" has been outed.
If I was you, I'd kill myself. Honestly....I wouldn't be able to live with the shame...but you and shame are good friends, aren't you?
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:28 pm#84, so no matter the source, you'll make excuses for your Democrat masters... "the general will just lie to us anyway".
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:29 pmre # 93
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:31 pmis dale an ancroymn for DumAssLyingEunch?
It it easy to understand: The administration does not want anyone to know about the American deaths in Iraq...they do want us to be afraid, they want us to be very afraid here at home. The administration does not allow flag draped caskets to be photographed. It does not allow dead soldiers to be photographed and they lie about the war on a daily basis. The administration does not respect the troops.
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:34 pm"#84, so no matter the source, you’ll make excuses for your Democrat masters… “the general will just lie to us anywayâ€.
Comment by Dale — April 23, 2007 @ 3:29 pm"
He is going to say what Bush tells him to say!
If you doubt that...... I guess your well beyond help!
Evidence is beyond belief for this suggestion.....
Look at the financial person who stated it was going to take TRILLIONS for this war, and then was canned because HE TOLD THE TRUTH!
Look at the Gens who resigned because they could not speak openly and the only way they could was to resign.... One Gen. said specifically that he resigned because he felt he could do more by speaking out for the troops then he could in his position.
Try and pull your head out of Bush's A$$ once in a while and take a look around to see what the real world is like......
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:34 pmThe only place that flags were flown at half mast for Pat Tillman was at the Arizona State University.
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:35 pmIf you really wanted to know what the Dems are most interested in:
"We're going to pick up Senate seats as a result of this war," Senate Majority Leader Harry M. Reid (Nev.) told reporters yesterday. "Senator Schumer has shown me numbers that are compelling and astounding."
And yet the Dems *support* the war? Riiight.
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:35 pmbob (not the hacker)
I am not going away. I can't address the rest of your make-believe post though.
TripMaster Monkey:
I am not ashamed, and I am not going to kill myself either. If you don't have the same memory as I do anymore, that's fine. I already said if I find a link later, I will certainly post it.
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:36 pmI'm sure the thinking in bush central goes that US service members volunteered to have a crazy psychotic man end their lives, versus the VT students who didn't volunteer for such a fate. bush is just acknowledging that US military personnel get what they deserve for volunteering under his reign of error and disregrad for the lives of service members.
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:39 pm.
"Comment by Dale — April 23, 2007 @ 3:35 pm"
What is it about FACTS and TRUTHS that you on the RIGHT have a problem with????
So by stating the TRUTH with FACTS this is somehow twisted into some perverted manner by the Repubs.....
I am sooooooo Ashamed of what my country has become under this president!!!
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:40 pm"Comment by justfred — April 23, 2007 @ 3:39 pm"
Sadly, this is absolutely true!!!!
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:41 pmS_Boy:
I was not in Arizona, so I know there were American flags flown at half-mast elsewhere too. Regardless, thanks for admitting that Sgt. Wilt is factually incorrect as well.
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:43 pmI thought it was telling that the President specifically chose not to make jokes (in his words, "not to be funny") at this year's correspondents' dinner, in light of the VT killings. But every year before that, it's been fun & games, and of course we all remember the classic "Bush trying to find the WMDs" bit he did while the real soldiers actually doing that job were being killed by the dozens. Which became hundreds. Now thousands.
It's funny what passes for respect these days.
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:43 pmOne dead soldier does not troopS make.
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:48 pmSenator Harry Reid is a straight forward and honest man, he tells it like it is.
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:48 pmHe does not couch his statements in slick politico-speak, so that he can deny what he said later if there are objections.
As evidenced by Rethug speak, the epitomy of which was Alberto Gonzos endless non-statements of last week.
The lackluster intelligence of the lower level trolls here is starting to rub off on you, Dale.
If you are Dale this afternoon, you are usually a dawn troll...................
"Alfred" sez:
I never advocated you kill yourself, Jake. I said I would, if I was you. If I had to wake up every morning and be Jake for the rest of my life, I'm certain I would find a way to shorten that life.
I don't expect you to feel the same way, Jake...you've already demonstrated time and again that you are utterly bereft of any sort of integrity.
All I'm asking if for you to prove your assertion. Without proof or disproof, this conversation cannot move forward. And every minute you fail to provide either proof or and admission of your lie, the worse you look.
And again, my assumption that your assertion was truthful does not count as proof of the assertion's truthfulness. Every time you try to claim that it does, the more idiotic you appear.
(P.S.: I think it's interesting that if I had know at the time of my post #20 that you were in fact Jake, I would have never extended you the benefit of the doubt, and instead demanded proof from the beginning. Funny, that the only way you can find to even pretend to win an argument is to trick another poster into accepting your claims at face value. You are beyond contempt.)
Again, we're not holding our breath.
It's time to choose a new nick, Jake...every time I see the name 'Alfred', I'm going to ask you for that proof again.
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:52 pmS_Boy:
The good Sergeant did not use the plural here: ". . . I find it ironic that the flags were flown at half-staff for the young men and women who were killed at VT yet it is never lowered for the death of a U.S. servicemember."
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:52 pmRe # 99
alfred/jake/elizibeth/Angela/miguel/constance/etc.
I didn't ask you to go away. it would be nice if you were honest though.
ps, can we just call you JED? that stands for Jake, Elizibeth/Dan.
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:53 pm#42
R_R...except Harry Reid was criticizing the "strategy" of the administration in regards to Iraq.
That straegy of course leaving almost no hope of "victory" (which is defined as what exactly lil Bushie?), and definitely puts our troops in harm's way more often than not. But you would rather have them over there dying in a criminally mismanaged war than admit that your idol has screwed up huge on this.
We have the bravest soldiers in the world, but when the policy that puts them on the battlefield fails, they are the only ones who suffer. That is what Harry Reid is trying to get across there bud...you're dead wrong to try and lie to yourself just so you can preserve your drooling adoration of a man who couldn't run the Texas Rangers!
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:56 pmComment by dave — April 23, 2007 @ 1:42 pm
Dave, Dave, Dave
From the bottom of my heart
F*&K YOU!
Have a nice day
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:56 pm"Is the life of Sgt. Alexander Van Aalten, a member of our very own task force, killed April 20 in Helmand province not valued the same as these 32 students? Surely his death was as violent as the students."
Neocon talking point 132:
"The difference is that Sgt. Alexander Van Aalten volunteered to go out there and be killed. The Virginia Tech kids did not volunteer to die. They didn't try to save themselves, but, the certainly didn't volunteer to be killed."
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:56 pmYeah, if you only read one sentence like a stupid fu*king troll. The story is about the flag not being lowered for TROOPS. dumb a$$.
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:57 pm43
You're right Cynicon. Just like any dyed-in-the-wool neocon you don't care at all about the sacrifice our troops have had to make. In fact, you want them to keep being fed into the meat grinder!
What a precious soul you have.
When are you enlisting again? I'll remember to host a "Going Away for Good!" party in your honor.
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:59 pm*
this may have been covered...
when i first heard of the order to lower the flags, i thought it was odd, and out of place... i thought the practice was reserved for heads of state/public officials... but especially for service people...
i was correct:
Other Rules:
.Only the President and state Governors can decide when and how long the flag should be flown at half-staff.
.Thirty days after the death of a president or former president
.Ten days after the death of a vice president, the chief of justice or a retired chief of justice or the speaker of the house of representatives.
.Until the burial of an associate justice of the Supreme Court, secretary of a military department, a former vice president, or the governor of a state, territory, or possession.
.On the day of and the day after the death of a member of Congress.
.On Memorial Day, the day set aside to honor all the people who have died while serving the United States & originally called Decoration Day, the flag is flown at half-Staff until noon, then raised to full staff until sundown.
When is it permitted to half-staff the U.S. flag?
Only the president of the United States or the governor of the state may order the flag to be at half-staff to honor the death of a national or state figure. Unfortunately, many city, business and organization leaders are half-staffing the flag upon the death of an employee or member. Instead, it is suggested to half-staff (if on a separate pole) the city, business or organizational flag. The federal flag code does not prohibit this type of half-staffing.
more: http://www.gettysburgflag.com/FlyFlagHalfMast.php
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:59 pmFine, TripMaster Monkey. Too bad you aren't Jake too.
April 23rd, 2007 at 4:00 pmS_Boy:
I am only refuting THAT one single sentence. Understand now?
katy:
Thanks, but we've already been discussing when the flag's been ordered lowered or not.
April 23rd, 2007 at 4:02 pm"Alfred" sez:
Still waiting for that proof, Shakey...
April 23rd, 2007 at 4:04 pm110...
OOPS, referencing #41
April 23rd, 2007 at 4:05 pmWhy were the flags flown at half staff for the students at Virginia Tech but not for the troops that have been killed in Iraq and Afghanistan? The answer should be obvious. There was political capital to be gained in the case of the students and political capital to be lost in the case of the troops. Add that to the appallingly deficient treatment given to the wounded troops and it shouldn't take a genius to recognize all those "support the troops" signs and statements are mostly hypocritical bullshit. In other words, Sarge, all they wan't you to do is put yourself in harm's way to make the warmongers look tough. And not exercise your freedom of speech as you did.
April 23rd, 2007 at 4:12 pmStill waiting,
Jake...er..."Alfred".I have to go home now, but once I'm home, I'll log back on and see if you've somehow managed to defy my estimation of you...I'm not holding my breath, though...
April 23rd, 2007 at 4:15 pmkaty:
Thanks, but we’ve already been discussing when the flag’s been ordered lowered or not.
Comment by Alfred
Don't dismiss her, you prick.
April 23rd, 2007 at 4:16 pmDitto to most of the earlier posts (those that regarded Bush's use of the flag as a "prop").
GOP Jesus says:
"Free thinkers are terrorists and anti-Christian fascists. GOP Jesus is for Group-think Only People."
April 23rd, 2007 at 4:17 pmKarp's disciple:
Please see discussion above. American flags HAVE been flown at half-staff for troops killed in Iraq and Afghanistan.
April 23rd, 2007 at 4:18 pmComment by Alfred
Alfred
Please read my post to Dave at #111 and apply to yourself.
April 23rd, 2007 at 4:20 pmIn fact, even Sgt. Wilt admits that some States ARE flying their flags at half-staff. Even he "can understand not lowering flags across the country for the death of a single servicemember. But shouldn’t the servicemember’s state lower the flag to show their respect to the fallen trooper, if only for one day? Some states do, but not all of them."
I think his suggestion about "the servicemember’s forward operating base and the installation of his or her parent unit should show their respect by lowering the flag for one day" is very reasonable.
April 23rd, 2007 at 4:22 pmHave a nice day, yourself, hacker bob.
April 23rd, 2007 at 4:23 pm...because the Bushites neither support...
...nor RESPECT...
...the sacrifice the troops and their families are making...
...why else would the criminal Bushite junta use the troops...
...as a political delaying tactic...
...and war profiteering tools?
April 23rd, 2007 at 4:26 pm"Alfred" sez:
You have yet to show proof that the President ordered that flags be flown at half-mast in honor of Tillman, as you attempted to suggest.
No one here is suggesting that flags haven't been flown at half-mast for fallen troops in Afghanistan and Iraq. It happens every day....ordered by the governors of the states that the fallen soldiers hail from.
In fact, the half-masting for Tillman was ordered by Gov. Janet Napolitano...NOT the President, as you assert.
I've asked you time and again for proof of your assertion, and time and again you slink away like an earthworm on a hot sidewalk.
So quit trying to move the goalposts, Jake. The issue at hand...the issue that Sgt. Wilt is raising, is that the President ordered a federal half-masting for civilians, but not for the troops that die every single day as a result of his disastrous war of imperialist aggression. That is the issue here, Jake. Stick to it.
April 23rd, 2007 at 4:31 pmthanks zooey... i took no offense, be assured (i know you are)...
i was pretty sure that jumping in at 100ish posts there was a good chance it had been covered...
which is why, of course, i prefaced my comment with, "this may have been covered…" (and this explanation is not for your benefit) (heh)...
i was in from mowing, but now heading out for more work before cleaning up for the night...
keep 'em in line...
April 23rd, 2007 at 4:39 pm...
Dave, Dave, Dave
From the bottom of my heart
F*&K YOU!
Have a nice day
Comment by hacker bob
Well and plainly stated, Robert.
That was a nice touch -- "Have a nice day." :D
April 23rd, 2007 at 4:39 pmThe Sergeant asks a fair question.
April 23rd, 2007 at 4:47 pmAs I pointed out above, Bush ordered flags lowered in remembrance of CIVILIANS from the 9/11 attacks, a FOREIGN CIVILIAN Pope John Paul II, more CIVILIANS from Hurricane Katrina, lots of FOREIGN CIVILIANS from the Indian Ocean earthquake and tsunami victims, and the deaths of CIVILIAN Coretta Scott King and CIVILIAN Rosa Parks. Again, I don't have a "link" handy for those either. I also don't think Iraq has been a disastrous war of imperialist aggression.
April 23rd, 2007 at 4:51 pmWhich question(s) are you referring to, Karim?
April 23rd, 2007 at 4:52 pmI think that the act of lowering the flag is important for those who choose to fly the flag. This choice of showing your love of country comes with the price of respect for how it is used. But if we lower the flag for in times of war, the flag would always be at half staff. So we all again forget. Instead, we should require a one hour lowering of the flag per kill. Asking everyone who flies and respects the flag to create a more meaningful expression would be a good reminder to them and to everyone else of the continuing loss.
Another idea would be to send up multiple flags, one for each death reported the previous day.
April 23rd, 2007 at 4:55 pmComment by Sharon — April 23, 2007 @ 2:45 pm
Sharon, Your comments always bring a smile. :)
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:34 pmOnce again, the massacre at Virginia Tech is nothing more than a photo-op for our Dear Leader. Individual soldiers just don't count.
April 23rd, 2007 at 7:08 pmWake up, America.
thanks zooey… i took no offense, be assured (i know you are)…
i was pretty sure that jumping in at 100ish posts there was a good chance it had been covered…
Comment by katy
I hate that prick's attitude. His comment was unnecessary and rude.
(You're making my nose itch...) :)
April 23rd, 2007 at 8:09 pmScrew all you Armchair Generals. And fuck you "dave". To call a real American, Sgt Stupidass, while you jerk off at home. I was over there, those kids are seeing shit no kid should see, and doing shit you pussies could never do. Fuck VT, and fuck Bush. Bring our boys home!!
April 23rd, 2007 at 8:34 pmI salute you, Sgt. Wilt, for bringing this to our attention as a nation. Saying "we support our troups" should be more than a catch-phrase, or a campaign slogan.
As I see the flags at half-staff, I will not only remember the tragedy of those 32 students, but also the sacrifice of Sgt. Aalten.
April 23rd, 2007 at 8:40 pmI am a soldier, and on November 6th, 2004, I almost became one of those "numbers". I have lost over 20 of my closest friends and brothers to this conflict. What you all seem to be forgetting is that the flag being flown at half mast is a sign of respect. Further more, it doesn't take a presidential order to fly them at half mast. Flags are brought up and down the mast each and everyday by people, just like you and me. Forget Bush, and his messed up policies, forget the policies of the current administration. "Flying flags upside down", the Star Spangled Banner is the sign for our country. Not for some elected official figure head. If you have a problem with Bush, go f---ing vote. I'm not praising him, but to fly the flag upside down in the manner spoken of in these comments is a sign of disrespect for our country. If you hate America so much, then fucking leave, and quit wasting my tax dollars. I fly a flag in my front yard at half mast everyday by my own choice. I have that choice because other brave men and woman have fought and died to give me that choice. I have pride in them, and my country. I volunteered to do the job I do now, and recognize that I had the CHOICE to do so. Be greatfull that you don't live in a counry that forces you to serve, unlike so many others out there. And remember that these "numbers" are people, just like you and me, they are your brothers, sisters, sons, daughters, mothers, and fathers. Give them some respect! Don't blow off their deaths because you don't like the elected figure head that sent them there.
April 23rd, 2007 at 8:51 pmNo, troops do not deserve the same treatment. An army's primary function is to kill. Those who join the military thinking otherwise are retarded at best. Even the medics contribute toward this goal by saving the lives of those that will be doing the killing. A military does not defend by saying "Please don't attack us mister $WHOEVER." It defends by killing or using the threat of killing. Therefore, it's only logical that opposing forces would be trying to kill members of the American military. Not knowing this when signing on the dotted line is infinitely worse than not knowing a military's primary function. There should be no risks of murder at a school. It was a tragedy that the students died, and thus, only right that flags are flown half staff. It is sad that soldiers die, but it is not unusual, nor tragic; it's expected.
April 23rd, 2007 at 8:59 pmNew Mexico sets the flags at half mast when a New Mexico service person is killed. I see it as an important reminder of those who have sacrificed everything for their service.
April 23rd, 2007 at 9:02 pmWhen a soldier goes to war, he knows what he is doing and is given the means to defend himself.
Those students went to class to learn, not to fight, and had no means to defend themselves.
If you have a problem with the flag not being flown at half mast for soldier deaths then that is your decision, but do not use the events of last Monday to further your own personal agenda. Using last Monday has caused me to lose all respect for Sgt. Wilt.
April 23rd, 2007 at 9:03 pmExcellent idea! Thanks for sharing it with me.
April 23rd, 2007 at 9:16 pmCollege pussies have always hidden from their responsibilities to this country. Ask them Why aren't they serving in the military.
THEY'RE PUSSIES that's why.
Our combat soldiers deserve respect, a dead college kid deserves maybe pity...pity...pity.
So on your next spring break pussies think about who's putting it on the line while your toking one up and pissing your diapers.
April 23rd, 2007 at 9:59 pmUngrateful pussy college pansies.
Why would any college kid deserve any kind of national sympathy???
April 23rd, 2007 at 10:07 pmWhat has a college kid done for anyone...
They're probably in college hiding from the war.
HIDING FROM THEIR RESPONSIBILITY AS A CITIZEN.
This country is in danger because you college pussies are treated so pathetically tender.
You are so self entitled. Get over it and get on with making this country better than when you arrived.
Comment by bang #s 144 & 145
...another proud dumb a*s home-schooled inbred dropout...
...maybe if you had paid attention in school and applied yourself...
...your stupid a*s wouldn't be in the HELL you've created for yourself...
...you non-human shit-fer-brains" hater...
...don't hate the players fool...
...hate YOUR inability to play the frickin' game...
April 23rd, 2007 at 10:36 pm@ Alfred
"I believe flying the flag upside down is an internationally-recognized distress signal."
Not always. In some countries, flying the flag upside down is a sign that the country is/has been invaded and at war. I am not sure if that is the case with the USA but if so, then flying the stars and stripes upside down should have been done since 9/11.
Maybe it should be flown at half mast all the time....just to remind us EVERYDAY of our losses. The more we sweep this under the rug the longer it will last, the easier it will be to forget and the faster it will be to repeat.
April 23rd, 2007 at 11:02 pmFrankly, sir, I think it's appropriate that the flag be flown at half-mast for the VT students because they didn't sign up to go to VT to die. It was unexpected and horrendous. Soldiering, on the other hand, kind of goes hand in hand with death. You knew when you signed up that there was more than half a chance you were going to get your balls blown off. Lighten up. I don't complain about my job. Don't complain about yours.
April 23rd, 2007 at 11:07 pmit's because GWB is a fucking prick that needs to be impeached right now.
April 24th, 2007 at 12:54 amClay, I bet your job doesn't consist of being blown up one day by people who were friendly to you the day before. Am I right?
Yes, soldiers know what risks we are assuming when we sign up for the job. That doesn't mean you can pretend that going into a combat zone is the same thing as sitting behind a desk and staring at a computer, though.
As a former Army medical sergeant, I know first-hand that this stuff is dangerous, but I firmly believe that so many soldiers have been killed that America is numb to it. I'll never be numb to it -- I lost 14 friends during my last tour of Iraq, and it still hurts.
April 24th, 2007 at 1:55 amBig difference. Those students at Vtech weren't in the middle of a war. They were students in the middle of class... who got ambushed with nothing to defend themselves.
Where as.... Service men and women know exactly where they are. They are in a WAR. A situation most of them chose, regardless if right or wrong.
April 24th, 2007 at 3:17 amFirst of all, the USA needs to get ride of Bush. Then get ride of guns, or rather, amend your laws to make owning a gun extremely difficult. By that, I mean you don't sell a gun to every numpty that can say his name if it's less than 2 syllables and is able to mark an X on a bit of paper. Then you might respect life for what it is and honour your dead.
April 24th, 2007 at 4:00 amEr... see the title of this post. It would appear this one soldier isn't real clear on the whole 'war' scenario.
Apparently someone who spent several years being schooled on the exact unwaivering military policy for how bed sheets are folded thought that whether flags get lowered or not wouldn't have one.
BTW, has ThinkProgress taken a leaf out of Drudge's book and is now claiming EXCLUSIVES for articles that already exist on the wire ?
April 24th, 2007 at 4:04 amOne death is a tragedy; a million is a statistic
April 24th, 2007 at 5:58 amI thank the service men and women who fight for the country. What saddens me is that there is a lack a respect for these men and women shown throughout this post. You may not agree with the current administration or why the military is in Iraq, but the fact of the matter is those who chose to serve their country should be honored. It doesn’t matter if you are discussing WWII, Vietnam, or Iraq. It seems that death and war have become accepted (or ignored); many of you will never know what war is like, and you should be grateful. Honor the dead (the VT students) and honor those who put their lives out there to help yours.
April 24th, 2007 at 10:51 amBush could care less about the soldiers as do many on these boards who are always trying to defend this dumb inept piece of sh*t. These soldiers like stupid a** people in america were lied to and you fell for it. Yes, people at VA tech were killed now what? Just like thousands around the world but I do not see the Americans mourning them. Americas always want sympathy when their own gets killed but to hell with everyone else. Americans always want sympathy when they are in fact the aggressors. Bush, Cheney , Wolfowitz and the rest of these crooks see nothing but oppression of people and the collection of their weak dollar.
This soldier is right and he has every reason to state his opinion. There is no honor in war.
April 24th, 2007 at 11:08 amThis soldier is way out of line, these students were in the wrong place at the wrong time. These soldiers cannot join and not except to face danger, these students had no such expectations. This soldier is paid to defend this country, he had a choice he made it, these students had no such choice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
April 24th, 2007 at 12:50 pmI too wondered why the flags are flown at half mast when our soldiers die for protecting our so-called liberties that we no longer hold because of the Patriot Act and Homeland Security. Our soldiers deserve the same respect that was shown for the Virginia Tech students and other dignitaries. It didn't take the Virginia Tech students deaths for me to wonder this. Our flags need to flown at half mast. Maybe then people will begin to wake up and question this so-called war for profit for the Bush/Cheney Administration.
April 24th, 2007 at 1:34 pmYou are not the only one to question why the flag was lowered for people who did nothing more than be in the wrong place at the wrong time while we have sailors, airmen, soldiers and marines voluntarily in harms way. Regardless that they are trained and paid, it is the voluntary (by choice) aspect that entitles our servicemembers to a higher level of awe and respect over those that are merely killed by chance.
Our servicemembers put their lives on the line- voluntarily, but not without great soul searching. They question such things as why is my life worth less than others- it isn't. I'm sure noone meant disrespect by flying the flag at half mast for VA-Tech and I'm also sure that our servicemembers are not getting their due homage and respect.
April 24th, 2007 at 1:40 pmSoldiers go to war and the fact that some are killed is expected. It is their job, that they signed up for, to put themselves in harms way according to the orders of our President and his war. Students don't go to class expecting to face danger, especially not a crazed gunman. And they shouldn't have to.
April 24th, 2007 at 4:23 pmI didn't sign up to make some asshole (Prez) and his buddies rich. I didn't sign up to have children bombed by the hundreds daily. I raq was not a threat. We should have went to Africa if we really wanted to make a difference. But there's no oil in Africa. So keep driving you SUVs and let the real men die for your sins. VT did not deserve half mast, either.
April 24th, 2007 at 6:19 pmI asked the same question about the VA Tech massacre. 32 people? Thats nothing... we lose that many soldiers a week in Iraq and Afghanistan. Insensitive? No. I'm a military wife. Is my husband's life any less than these students' lives? No. Do YOU know how it feels to watch the number of latest fatalities rise, and wonder if you are going to get a knock at your door, because it's YOUR husband, or dad that didn't make it? Odd, because I face that every day.
April 24th, 2007 at 7:14 pmThese people, they all deserve the same respect because at the end of the day, they're still people. They are sons, daughters, moms, dads, husbands and wives. Student, soldier... All the same. Some choose to go to college, some choose to make sure the ones that want to go to college, get to. Thank you to the soldiers that are dying to let your kids, and you, go to Virginia Tech, and every other college in the U.S. Just remember, you people that post the insensitive posts about "the soldiers signed up to do it"... karma. If a draft ever comes to be again, you better hope and pray to your God. Karma.
To all: So Much Hate.................and yet you say you value life, I think I'm becoming ashamed to have lived in this era. If you applied all that hate and venom to doing good things and being invovled in your town, County, nation, think of what a nation and world we could have.
Shame
Shame
Shame
Todkahdohs
April 25th, 2007 at 6:01 pmIn these comments there seems to be so much name calling going on. We need to bind together as a nation. We may not agree with the decisions that are being made as far as the war is concerned, but we must support our armed forces. They are just doing the job they signed on to do which was to defend our nation. Our freedom is not "free", and some make the ultimate sacrifice. For that reason alone, we as a nation OWE them due respect.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:24 pm