You must have done a lot of research, wacko. You are a Christian Jihadist.

Newton had to say he was a God fearing man or he would have been executed, so debating that is probably pretty pointless.
Comment by Crump’s Brother — April 24, 2007 @ 4:12 pm

I think you mean Galileo. Newton was never under that threat.

::sigh::

Yes, theHater, I want every loony religious group to get away with whatever loony claim they may come up with.

/sarcasm off

Keep asking hyperbolic questions like that and I will stop responding in a civilised manner.

What are you talking about?

I asked if you were actually taking a movie as a historical reference. In other words, do you think the movie is 100% accurate? Do you think you can use the movie to make a point about Iraq’s history? (remember that it’s a movie and parts are fictionalized)

And you think my Wikipedia references are shaky? What a joke.

Iraq as we know it today did not exist under the Ottoman Empire as you are trying ot make it seem.

I didn’t make anything seem anything at all. You are a bad case of poor reading comprehension.

What I said was “what is modern-day Iraq was unified before that; under Ottoman rule, of course.”

In other words, although the territories that make up moder-day Iraq were under the Ottoman Empire’s jurisdiction, the country now-known as Iraq didn’t exist.

Iraq as we know it today began in the 1920s thanks to Lawrence of Arabia, England and the League of Nations.

Iraq was granted independence by the English crown in the 1930s. The League of Nations intervened at the end of WWI to give England mandate over what is now Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, etc.

I would urge you to close down wikipedia and pick up a real book.

You could follow your own advise and pick up a book instead of watching a romanticized account of T.E. Lawrence’s life.

you aren’t sounding too smart or too educated, but you are certainly assuming a lot of things.

Well, at least I know how to spell “snippets”.

Heaven’s existance doesn’t rely on whether you believe it exists or not. You don’t need to believe in Heaven in order for it to exist. Understood? It is there, whether you believe in it or not.
Comment by Valiantthehater — April 24, 2007 @ 3:12 pm

Lots of assumption in one short paragraph.

The belief in the after life is just that: A belief.

Understood? A belief.

and you refuse to answer the question of how women are though of by Muslims [...] can they enter what Muslim calls Heaven?

Because it’s a silly question. Of course women can enter the Islamic version of Heaven. Fatima will be there to greet them, and they will be led by her.

And of course you will say that that is not true.

You don’t need to believe in a religion in order to enter Heaven or go to Hell.
Comment by Valiantthehater — April 24, 2007 @ 3:12 pm

Yes, you do. You need to have been baptized. You also need to have accepted Christ as the Messiah in order to gain access to the Christian version of Heaven.

That’s part of the Catholic Church’s catechism.

Bottom line: You need to accept the basic tenets of a religion in order to qualify for access to that particular religion’s version of Heaven.

This is a good conversation. Newton had to say he was a God fearing man or he would have been executed, so debating that is probably pretty pointless.

I must defend Einstein here though. He was not a Christian. Many have made this claim, but it isn’t true. His own words make it so.

“It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie, which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but expressed it clearly.”

oh no, it goes beyond being told a story! please. Have you ever studied theology? my beliefs about Heaven, Hell, etc as a young boy were based on stories, but as I grew older and went to college and beyond. I have studied theology, and through human logic, going way beyond logic, I have come to the conclusion and know that God, Heaven, Hell, Satan exist.

You know, not attacking you, but most people that haven’t studied theology say what you say. Also most people that studied religion only until high school or only until the end of junior high say what you just said.

think about this, if you only studied science, history, math, etc until the end of junior high, would you not say that these are for children, myths taught to us when we were young?

furthermore, human logic, studying, reading, etc, leads you to believe in a God, Heaven, etc.

there is a reason why great scientist like Einstein, Newton, etc all came to the conclusion that there was a God.

and just like when you study science, math, history, etc and you know there is more to it than what you know, theology is the same way.

sorry, not myths guy, not even close to Zeus, Odin, etc, etc.

While I respect your ‘beliefs’ you must understand that you don’t ‘know’! You believe. You have a very strong belief, but it is a belief based on stories that you have been told. That’s ok, but it’s not that same as having actual evidence which would, at the very least, make heaven a probability. It is only myth. No different in it’s truth than Odin or Zeus.

No, it isn’t possible, because I know there is a Heaven, a Hell, a God, a Satan, Angels, etc, etc, etc.

there is no doubt in my mind.

1. Muslims view all others as infidels, who in turn must be destroyed. This point is irrefutable and those who have not researched this issue should not attempt to chime in with half-baked truths (alas, but you probably will anyway…). I will state this again so you understand, if you are not Muslim, you are an infidel. No debate.

2. Christianity did cause havoc centuries ago, but when a purported Christian causes havoc today, he is soundly denounced by other (true) Christians and there is no fear of irrational escalation of violence (unlike Muslims who think a person creating a cartoon in the name of free speech earns you a ticket straight to Hell).

3. Muslims do not condemn acts of atrocity committed today in the name of their religion. See my point in #2 above. Indeed, they glorify mothers who leave their children behind while they strap a bomb under their dress and blow up other children.

4. Muslims do not believe in equal protection or due process of the laws. Before you chide this point, think VERY carefully. It is irrefutable that if you are not a Muslim, your ability to own property, vote, go out in public without being fully covered, get a divorce, seek custody of your children, embrace a different religion, embrace a person of the same sex, engage in free speech (as we do now), etc., will not be guaranteed as a basic human right and may well earn you a ticket to their beloved headchopper.

5. Any person who thinks that Muslims believe in a form of co-existence with the rest of the world may continue to believe so, even to the point where they are carted off to be killed, or otherwise destroyed in the name of (silly) “martyrdom.”

How many women have been president of the United States?

Seems many people here have a clue about the difference between a religion, which is embraced by over a billion people in almost every country in the world, and the cultural restrictions and bias unique to different countries, regions and people’s.

Many people on this thread can’t seem to grasp that sexism and bigotry (evne insitutionallized ones) which are prevalent in many places in the Islamic world are not based on the religion, but long-standing cultural custom. Such inequality would exist where the culture religion Christianity, or Buddhism, etc.

The level of ignorance on display in this thread is nothing short of amazing.

Isn’t it also possible, that you will be shocked to find that when you die, there is no heaven or hell?

I will have to admit it is a leap of Faith, but it is one of those things that I am just 100% sure about. Kind of like I am 100% sure my wife loves me. You know.

But just as I know that my wife loves me because of her actions and me “studyinig” her actions. I have studied the Catholic Faith and its theology and the Great Doctors of the Church. While there is plenty that you must make a leap of Faith to believe in, there are many things that can be believed through simple human logic.

but we must all understand that God, Heaven, Hell, Satan, etc do not rely upon us believing in them in order for them to exist.

Now, I believe that Gregor, and others have the right to not believe in Heaven, Hell, God, Satan, and just like the Church teaches, it doesn’t mean that they will go to Hell. At the end, only God knows and only God can judge your soul and what you were really thinking and why you thought that way.

I know that Gregor will be shocked when he dies and his soul goes to either Heaven or Hell.

First, the British made contradictory promises during World War One. They promised the Arabs independence and they promised the Zionists a Jewish homeland. At the end of the war, the British betrayed the Arabs (see Lawrence of Arabia’s Seven Pillars of Wisdom) and occupied Palestine –that’s what it was called.

As the governing authority, the British then began encouraging Jewish immigration and offering public land to Jewish settlers. The Palestinians were understandably upset as they were not even consulted and had no control over their own land and its dispossession. (BTW, the slogan “A land without people for a people without land” is a lie.)

How could the UN ‘give back’ the land of the Israelis? Israel had ceased to exist 2000 years before. Shall we see if the UN will give back the USA to the First Nations of America? Perhaps one could convince the UN to give back Britain to the Britons and take it away from those WASPs.

Finally, what’s all this nonsense about scary Muslim states. Israel is a Jewish state. Why? What’s with the throwback to the 17th century? Shouldn’t Israel be a secular state? Why shouldn’t Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza not be reunited into a secular state?

Israel exists. That’s a fact. And both Syria and Iran have periodically expressed interest in recognizing that fact. But Israel cannot occupy the West Bank and Gaza forever, keeping the Palestinians in what is more or less bantustans or concentration camps. If Israel cannot get along with the people who were there before the Balfour Declaration, then Israel is a failed state.

let us talk modern times in Spain. Do you think it is right for Muslims in Spain to be calling on the Roman Catholic Church to give up one of their Churches because during the 400 year occupation of the Spanish Kingdoms it was built as a Muslim site to pray?

Islam as you know, says that once you conquer a land it belongs to Muslims whether they stay or not. Did you know that? of course not. Thus according to the Muslims, all of Spain and many parts of South Western Europe still is part of Muslim countries. Today, they are asking for territories and buildings to be given back to them.

do you agree with this?

It is there, whether you believe in it or not.

Interesting assertion. You seem to be very sure of this. What makes you so sure?

Heaven’s existance doesn’t rely on whether you believe it exists or not. You don’t need to believe in Heaven in order for it to exist. Understood? It is there, whether you believe in it or not.

and you refuse to answer the question of how women are though of by Muslims….

do tell, do Muslims regard women as human beings, as equals? do they?

can they enter what Muslim calls Heaven?

and as a Roman Catholic, I can tell you that you may or may not go to Heaven. Only God knows. You don’t need to believe in a religion in order to enter Heaven or go to Hell.

are you kidding me, do you not know that there is a Biography of Lawrence of Arabia, that there are countless books written about him and what he did in Iraq? wow!!!

Not united in the sense I wanted to give it? do tell, how do you know what sense I ment? where you in my head? did you read my thoughts? please! don’t even try it. You put meaning into my posts where no meaning exists! try again.

and once again, I would urge you to read Lawrence of Arabia books, and his great accomplishments in united the arab tribes in Iraq!

Iraq as we know it today did not exist under the Ottoman Empire as you are trying ot make it seem. Iraq as we know it today began in the 1920s thanks to Lawrence of Arabia, England and the League of Nations.

I would urge you to close down wikipedia and pick up a real book.

you aren’t sounding too smart or too educated, but you are certainly assuming a lot of things.

I didn’t make any such claim. I mentioned Europe for historical reference which you misconstrued as me blaming the US.

Go back and re-read my (and your) posts.

Heaven doesn’t exist according to whether you believe in it or not.
Comment by Valiantthehater — April 24, 2007 @ 2:53 pm

Your question only makes sense if I believe in Heaven.

And you are right. Heaven doesn’t exist regardless of whether you want to believe in it or not.

Once again, I dare you to ask your Muslim friends whether or not according to their religion you will go to Heaven.

And the answer I gave you is that all religious persons I may ask this question to will give me the same answer because I am not a follower of any religion.

why are you afraid of the answers?

What are you talking about? All religious people have already told me I am not going to Heaven, not just the Muslims.

Which is just as well, because there is no Heaven.