ThinkFast: April 25, 2007
ThinkFast: April 25, 2007
Several retired generals endorsed Congress’ Iraq withdrawal legislation yesterday. Maj. Gen. John Batiste called it “important legislation [that] sets a new direction in Iraq,” while Lt. Gen. William Odom said it will “re-orient US strategy to achieve regional stability, and win help from many other countries - the only way peace will eventually be achieved.”
“Embattled Attorney General Alberto Gonzales will return to Capitol Hill on Wednesday, this time to meet with Democratic Sen. Mark Pryor, who recently called for the attorney general’s resignation, accusing Gonzales of lying to the senator and his constituency in Arkansas.”
“After more than a decade of government inaction, gay-rights proponents in Congress have gotten several major bills moving through the Democratic-controlled chambers, a development that could result in the greatest expansion of federal protections for gays and lesbians in US history.” The measures include tougher action against both workplace discrimination and hate crimes based on sexual orientation.
“The Iraqi government withheld recent casualty figures from the United Nations, fearing they would be used to present a grim picture of Iraq that would undermine the coalition’s security efforts.” The United Nations released its own figures, showing that sectarian violence remains high in Baghdad, despite the U.S. escalation strategy.
“After months of furious debate and threats of excommunication by the Catholic Church, Mexico City’s legislative assembly on Tuesday overwhelmingly voted to legalize abortion for the first time in the capital’s history.”
An NYT expose shows how the Occupational Safety and Health Administration, “charged with overseeing workplace safety,” has placed safety “in the hands of industry.” The agency “has killed dozens of existing and proposed regulations and delayed adopting others” under President Bush.
Office of Special Counsel chief Scott Bloch, who has launched an investigation into White House officials, “is himself under investigation by the inspector general of the Office of Personnel Management over accusations of politicizing his agency.” A lawyer for agency employees “said it was obvious that Mr. Bloch was trying to use the investigation to divert attention from his own problems.”
President Bush said that Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice might have one-on-one talks with Iranian leaders at an international conference on Iraq next month. “What I’m not willing to do is sit down bilaterally with the Iranians,” he said in an interview. Later, he said Rice and Iran’s foreign minister might have bilateral conversations. “They could. They could,” Bush said.
Newly-appointed Defense Undersecretary James Clapper Jr. “is moving to end the controversial Talon electronic data program,” which “collected and circulated unverified reports” about alleged threats, including data on “anti-military protesters and peaceful demonstrators.”
And finally: There are “problems” in Sen. Lisa Murkowski’s (R-AK) office, according to an internal memo sent to staff. The biggest one: “[I]f you have a long magazine-reading bathroom trip planned (and you know what I mean), please go to the public restrooms. We don’t want to subject our staff or constituents to any fowl (sic) smelling odors while they are in the office.”
What did we miss? Let us know in the comments section.
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To the person who wrote SIC after "fowl," how do you know that the Senator isn't really worried about chicken or duck smells? (sarcasm off)
April 25th, 2007 at 9:00 am“After months of furious debate and threats of excommunication by the Catholic Church, Mexico City’s legislative assembly on Tuesday overwhelmingly voted to legalize abortion for the first time in the capital’s history.â€
excommunication??? Wouldnt it be Excomulgation??? (Im just translating literally, and I dont know the answer). Yeah, we have a series of demonstrations from right and religious-related groups. Pathetic.
April 25th, 2007 at 9:05 amUnder 12 weeks, abortion is legal now. Good.
We don’t want to subject our staff or constituents to any fowl (sic) smelling odors while they are in the office.â€
Does this include 'attack dog' Cheney?
He leaves a foul smell wherever he goes, kind of like the smell of sulfur.
April 25th, 2007 at 9:07 amas for the first article:
Bushco manages the government exactly as most U.S. corporations manage their companies nowadays. The guiding philosophy is to enrich those on the top at the expense of the consumer, the small investor, and those lower down on the company's organizational structure.
These guys all have a glaring character flaw: The assumption that everything they touch will turn to gold. This assumption - that every decision they make is correct regardless of the realities of the market - negates the role of the experts they have hired to guide them in the decision-making process.
They have surrounded themselves with yes men.
Retired Generals? Why do you think they're retired?
April 25th, 2007 at 9:14 am“After months of furious debate and threats of excommunication by the Catholic Church, Mexico City’s legislative assembly on Tuesday overwhelmingly voted to legalize abortion for the first time in the capital’s history.â€
excommunication??? Wouldnt it be Excomulgation??? (Im just translating literally, and I dont know the answer). Yeah, we have a series of demonstrations from right and religious-related groups. Pathetic.
Under 12 weeks, abortion is legal now. Good.
Comment by Juan C — April 25, 2007 @ 9:05 am
W.W.J.D.
April 25th, 2007 at 9:14 amNewly-appointed Defense Undersecretary James Clapper Jr. “is moving to end the controversial Talon electronic data program,†which “collected and circulated unverified reports†about alleged threats, including data on “anti-military protesters and peaceful demonstrators.â€
Nice, in the beacon of freedom, pacifists and ecologists have less liberty and more government spying than schizoid gunmen.
April 25th, 2007 at 9:16 am#3:
"brimstone" is a more appropriate term.
April 25th, 2007 at 9:16 amW.W.J.D.
Comment by Daryll — April 25, 2007 @ 9:14 am
W.W.J.D.? FU, Drll.
April 25th, 2007 at 9:19 amDaryll,
April 25th, 2007 at 9:19 amJesus would be in Washington, trying to clean up the stinking mess VV
and his minions have created.
W.W.J.D.
Comment by Daryll — April 25, 2007 @ 9:14 am
Probably look at you, and the hypocrites in the Christian movement, then strap on an IED and walk into Focus On the Family and blow a few of you idiots up.
April 25th, 2007 at 9:21 amDaryll sez:
That's an intriguing question, Daryll. It's unfortunate that you have already proven yourself completely unqualified to answer it.
April 25th, 2007 at 9:21 amSorry ,Darryll. Didnt get it.
April 25th, 2007 at 9:22 amA salute to the resident attack dog...
April 25th, 2007 at 9:23 am………………… /´¯/)
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Oh, ok, now I get it.
Jesus was a liberal, so I guess he would be in favor of abortions. There you go.
April 25th, 2007 at 9:23 amJuan,
What Would Jesus Do...
Typical bullsheet from a typical lame brained Christian.. I tell ya the fluoride in the water much be in high concentrations where DUHryll grew up.
April 25th, 2007 at 9:26 amW.W.J.D.
Comment by Daryll — April 25, 2007 @ 9:14 am
Tell you to shut up and tell you to do your job and let him do his.
1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
Matthew 7:1-2
April 25th, 2007 at 9:26 amWhat Would Jesus Do, Juan.
A rightwing slogan of christian fundamentalists in the USA that pretend to be as wise as Jesus, and answer whatever problem they have in their real lifes imagining they are carpenters of the 0th century. Usually, they fail, and act like fanatic morons.
April 25th, 2007 at 9:27 amW.W.J.D.
Comment by Daryll — April 25, 2007 @ 9:14 am
b*tchslap you back to Bethlehem, fool.
April 25th, 2007 at 9:27 amWWJD?
April 25th, 2007 at 9:27 amI believe he would give them free choice. Isn't that what happened after the garden of Eden? Man (and women) were given free will, free choice? Didn't he die on a cross for the sins of mankind, so that we could make our own choices? That is what I understood from when I went to church. So basically, Mexico is finally doing what Jesus wanted inthe first place. Giving the people free choice.
Daryl:
The real question would be, "What Did Jesus Do?"
From what I remember of the Bible, Jesus was said to have died for the sins of mankind - thereby saving them from devine retribution in the hereafter. So, everybody's already forgiven and saved.
According to the Bible, Jesus saved us all.
Try as you might, you can't revoke it.
April 25th, 2007 at 9:29 am“The Iraqi government withheld recent casualty figures from the United Nations, fearing they would be used to present a grim picture of Iraq that would undermine the coalition’s security efforts.â€
Sounds a bit like another 'quagmire' type conflict a few years back...as I recall, that conflict didn't end too well.
The historical parallels are highly disturbing. Is this administration really too blind to see what is readily apparent to anyone who cares to look? It seems too much to believe.
A much more plausible explanation is that 'victory' is unattainable because the conflict was specifically designed so as not to be 'winnable' in any measurable sense. The true objective isn't 'victory'...it's endless occupation.
April 25th, 2007 at 9:30 amW.W.J.D.
Comment by Daryll —
He would leave everyone alone to practice their own belief systems. He never, I repeat, never forced anyone to follow his way of living, his beliefs, his teachings. The worst thing his disciples could do was to kick the dust off their sandals as they left a town or villiage.
Judgement, and punishment, was left to God.
April 25th, 2007 at 9:31 amThat is, if you believe that fairy tale stuff....
April 25th, 2007 at 9:31 amWell clearly these generals don't care about America and the troops or they wouldn't have retired. They'd still be fighting for our freedoms, you know, the right to shop 'til we drop at Walmart, the right to ogle photos of Britney Spears' crotch as she gets out of a car, the right to gorge ourselves to death at McDonalds or a Sizzler...
And now that they're leeching off the public they don't care about by drawing retirement benefits, they have the nerve to try and make the President look bad, obviously for political gain, by publicly disagreeing with him and undermining the moral of our troops.
(Gee, I'd make a pretty decent right-wing pundit, wouldn't I? In your face, Glenn Beck...)
April 25th, 2007 at 9:31 amSheesh, people...let's not let our resident bible-thumper completely derail this thread...
April 25th, 2007 at 9:32 amAn NYT expose shows how the Occupational Safety and Health Administration, “charged with overseeing workplace safety,†has placed safety “in the hands of industry.â€
Wanted: Fox to guard henhouse. Previous henhouse guarding experience preferred, but not necessary. Please send all resumes to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW Washington, DC 20500.
April 25th, 2007 at 9:34 amWow. I didn't know that a bunch of retired generals now hate America. They must be suffering Bush Derangement Syndrome. Lock 'em up. They're traitors.
/sarcasm off
April 25th, 2007 at 9:36 am#25,
April 25th, 2007 at 9:36 amI don't think it is derailed if people want to talk about it.
WMD = What Would Moses Do?
April 25th, 2007 at 9:37 amSomehow, ThinkProgress missed this:
US Presidential Candidate Calls for Impeachment of VP Cheney
http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/cheney
Kucinich has introduced articles of impeachment against Cheney. The questions are: Does the rest of the Democratic Party have the stomach for the fight?
Will Republicans circle the wagons around Cheney?
April 25th, 2007 at 9:38 amOffice of Special Counsel chief Scott Bloch, who has launched an investigation into White House officials, “is himself under investigation by the inspector general of the Office of Personnel Management over accusations of politicizing his agency.†A lawyer for agency employees “said it was obvious that Mr. Bloch was trying to use the investigation to divert attention from his own problems.â€
_______________________
This seems to be a classic case of win-win. Bloch either redeems himself by doing a thorough investigation of the White House shenanigans or he proves himself to be one of this administration's partisan hacks whose loyalty is to party more than country. Again, isn't oversight and transparency a wonderful trait of true democracy!
April 25th, 2007 at 9:40 amWMD = Want More Deception?
April 25th, 2007 at 9:41 am#30,
April 25th, 2007 at 9:44 amI guess TP doesn't think it is newsworthy, eh. I keep seeing it, but not here.....
Kucinich introduced the articles yesterday, in spite of Chainee's faking, and still no mention of it here.....
April 25th, 2007 at 9:50 amwhazzup?
W.W.J.D.
Comment by Daryll
I don't think he'd excommunicate anyone. Seeing as how he shared his Last Supper with Judas.
April 25th, 2007 at 9:51 amI keep seeing it, but not here…
I thought it was delayed because of Cheney's medical problems...
April 25th, 2007 at 9:51 amWWVVD?
What would Vince Vaughn do?
April 25th, 2007 at 9:52 amTMM:mornin!
April 25th, 2007 at 9:55 amRaven::Still shakin those tailfeathers?
Zimzone:that's one of the nices works of art I have ever seen(#13 :)
Wilco: Judas, who was actually in on the whole deal.....
April 25th, 2007 at 9:56 amI don't know what I would have done, but I know what I'm gonna do now!
April 25th, 2007 at 9:57 amHey, Daryll, man, forget Brazil and c'mon down to our place and paaaarty!
WWJD?
If he saw what people were doing in his name, if he heard George W. Bush calling himself a "Christian", he would never stop puking.
April 25th, 2007 at 9:57 amWWJB?
Who Would Jesus Bomb?
April 25th, 2007 at 10:29 amGood Morning all, I caught a short clip on a new's source yesterday about the Bloch's investigation tactick....The new's reporter asked a question about the working's of this investigation and what it will do...In short it will BLOCK any other legitimate investigation's of Rove while it is on going and form a protection of sort's for Rovie....There ya have it one more tiny little blocking move in this evil empire we call America... Blessings...Peace
April 25th, 2007 at 10:34 am#5 - "W.W.J.D." Comment by Daryll — April 25, 2007 @ 9:14 am
Jesus would ask you why you pick & choose certain veses of the Bible to follow and why you ignore his teachings.
Repent, Daryll!
April 25th, 2007 at 10:34 amI just heard Rosie O'Donnell will no longer be on the View. Something about her contract. Sounds like an excuse. We just lost perhaps the anti-Bush voice reaching the largest audience. This is a bad news. Rosie reached millions. They should've fired the young blonde chick. She's so stupid and uninformed. Anyone who saw the Rosie clip from a couple weeks back when she talks about Building 7 will know what I'm referring to. You can find the clip on You Tube.
April 25th, 2007 at 10:37 amL from C,
They've been gunning for her since Donald Dump took issue with her.
I agree that she at least speaks her mind, unlike the rest of the Sheeple on the show.
April 25th, 2007 at 10:50 am#46 Zim...At a time when networks should be hiring Progressives/Independents they're hiring Glenn Beck and Michael Smernicosh. And now we lost access to the huge View audience.
April 25th, 2007 at 10:58 amDaryll,
F.E.A.R.
April 25th, 2007 at 11:05 amNewly-appointed Defense Undersecretary James Clapper Jr. “is moving to end the controversial Talon electronic data program,†which “collected and circulated unverified reports†about alleged threats, including data on “anti-military protesters and peaceful demonstrators.â€
Good for him! That crap needs to go.
BTW, I absolutely love this guy's name. :)
April 25th, 2007 at 11:08 amNewly-appointed Defense Undersecretary James Clapper Jr. “is moving to end the controversial Talon electronic data program,â€
________________
"Clap on, clap off" - the CLAPPER!
April 25th, 2007 at 11:13 amWe should demand that Rosie is replaced by someone representing Liberals/Progressives. Janeane Garofalo, Randi Rhodes, Stephanie Miller, Rachael Maddow would be excellent choices.
April 25th, 2007 at 11:14 amIf we don't demand a replacement of similar beliefs they'll give the seat to a neo-con talking point reader. You can bet on it.
WWJD? Confront the modern Christian Pharisees and call them "hypocrites, fools, vipers" - just like we do!
April 25th, 2007 at 11:15 amGood Morning Lady Z...You love the name Clapper?...LOL..Pretty funny, Is that more than one case of the clap, or.?....Blessings
April 25th, 2007 at 11:16 amWWZD
What would Zooey do?
Anyway, Zooey...I saw your last posting addressed to me....Fair enough...How about instead: "I now PROPOSE that the hatchet be officially buried. Let peace reign over all the land!"
_____________________________
I know this will surprise you, Exley, but you don’t get to “pronounce†anything involving me.
You might want to get a band-aid for that hatchet in your head.
April 25th, 2007 at 11:19 amComment by Zooey — April 25, 2007 @ 10:49 am
Good Morning Lady Z…You love the name Clapper?…LOL..Pretty funny, Is that more than one case of the clap, or.?….Blessings
Comment by Sharon
He's the local distributor for the tri-state area. :-D
And on the side he sells those "Clapper" things PLC mentions in #50.
April 25th, 2007 at 11:20 am"...to any fowl (sic) smelling odors while they are in the office."
Now even the Repugs are admitting they are chicken sheet.
April 25th, 2007 at 11:41 amYou might want to get a band-aid for that hatchet in your head.
Comment by Zooey — April 25, 2007 @ 10:49 am
This from the cheap tart talking phony who feigns offense at a rape quip.
April 25th, 2007 at 11:45 amI got it Lady Z...Never owned one and never had it but it is funny any way...LOL...
Sun's trying to come out over here...Hope classes are going well....Lot's of errand's to run today so better leave...Blessings all..
April 25th, 2007 at 11:48 am#57 !!!!! who was ????? before....Be gone you cowardly black hearted little troll, back under the bridge....
April 25th, 2007 at 11:51 am"!!!!!" sez:
This from the jackass who thinks rape is a fit subject for humor.
(Hi, Jake. Running out of names?)
April 25th, 2007 at 11:55 amThis from the cheap tart talking phony who feigns offense at a rape quip.
Comment by !!!!!
What could you possibly know about any of it? Coward.
April 25th, 2007 at 12:00 pmSun’s trying to come out over here…Hope classes are going well….Lot’s of errand’s to run today so better leave…Blessings all..
Comment by Sharon
Clouds over here, sadly enough. Yesterday was so sunny and nice, and I got an attack of the freckles. :)
Take care, great lady.
April 25th, 2007 at 12:02 pmAnyway, Zooey…I saw your last posting addressed to me….Fair enough…How about instead: “I now PROPOSE that the hatchet be officially buried. Let peace reign over all the land!â€
Comment by Exley
Peace.
April 25th, 2007 at 12:03 pmZooey,
Excellent. Now we can disagree and debate far more substantive issues than trivial stuff like where a link appeared.
April 25th, 2007 at 12:18 pmZooey,
Excellent. Now we can disagree and debate far more substantive issues than trivial stuff like where a link appeared.
Comment by Exley
Don't push me. I push back.
April 25th, 2007 at 12:23 pmThis from the jackass who thinks rape is a fit subject for humor.
Comment by TripMaster Monkey
Or a hatchet to the back of someone's head.
April 25th, 2007 at 12:35 pmObviously,Monkey,you're too dense to see the double standard.
Don’t push me. I push back.
Comment by Zooey
And she'll damn sure scream like a stuck pig if someone makes a rape reference. The whole time sounding like a cheap tart and intimating burying a hatchet in the back of someone's head.
April 25th, 2007 at 12:47 pmComment by !!!!!
SShh! Military Intelligence Jake is hiding in the weeds, on recon patrol. Just humor him; eventually the senility will kick in, and he'll become a jet pilot. Or perhaps an Indian chief . . .
April 25th, 2007 at 12:47 pmReid, D-Nevada, dismissed Cheney's comments. "I'm not going to get into a name-calling match with the administration's chief attack dog," he told reporters.
So "Chief Attack Dog" isn't name calling?
April 25th, 2007 at 12:51 pm#65 Zooey,
Wha? I wasn't "pushing." I was just saying that our disagreement over the past two days started over something rather trivial.
And yes, I know you push back....In some ways, we are not so different you and I, Zooey. We both stand up for our beliefs and our selves and neither one likes to back down...ever!
April 25th, 2007 at 12:53 pmHurray for General Batiste! He's one of the only Generals who has any integrity left after this administration turned them into partisan morons who blindly follow orders they know will get men killed unneccessarily. Men like General Peter Pace, and the General who headed the join chiefs before him are lackys with NO guts or honor. Just wearing a uniform doesn't mean you have honor. Having four stars doesn't mean you have honor. Being an honorable soldier, marine, airman, or sailor means not only taking orders, but standing up when you know they orders don't make sense or will get men killed.
I was a lowly enlisted man, but in my 11 years of service, I refuse several orders because I believe they were flat wrong. I was never court-martialed because the officers issuing the orders knew they were out of line. I risked being sent to jail for what I believed was right and my honor was at stake. I refused to do anything that I considered as dishonorable or that would make me question my own morals. As a soldier one must conduct himself as a man of honor and you will rarely if ever follow bad orders or lost that which no one can replace, HONOR!
April 25th, 2007 at 1:45 pmAnd she’ll damn sure scream like a stuck pig if someone makes a rape reference. The whole time sounding like a cheap tart and intimating burying a hatchet in the back of someone’s head.
Comment by !!!!!
Rape is real, the hatchet in the back of Exley's head was not real.
See the difference?
Didn't think so.
F*ckwit.
April 25th, 2007 at 2:50 pmJake wasn't joking about "real" rape either.
April 25th, 2007 at 3:36 pm#73 is a name/symbol jacking.
What Jake said was a QUIP~a witty,off handed remark.
Just like the hatchet remark.
Taken out of context,both are equally violent.
Still trying to figure out why Zooey made such a big deal over it~a cry for counciling should be done with a psyco therapist,or google web m.d.;not here.
And stop calling names,Cheap Tart.
April 25th, 2007 at 4:29 pmKucinich: 'Impeachment may well be the only remedy which remains to stop a war of aggression against Iran'
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Kucinich_Impeachment_may_well_be_only_0315.html
April 25th, 2007 at 5:14 pm
"W.W.J.D.
Comment by Daryll — April 25, 2007 @ 9:14 am"
Hosea 9:11-16 Hosea prays for God’s intervention. “Ephraim shall bring forth his children to the murderer. Give them, 0 Lord: what wilt thou give? Give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts. . .Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb.†Clearly Hosea desires that the people of Ephraim can no longer have children. God of course obeys by making all their unborn children miscarry. Is not terminating a pregnancy unnaturally “abortion�
Numbers 5:11-21 The description of a bizarre, brutal and abusive ritual to be performed on a wife SUSPECTED of adultery. This is considered to be an induced abortion to rid a woman of another man’s child.
Numbers 31:17 (Moses) “Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every women that hath known man by lying with him.†In other words: women that might be pregnant, which clearly is abortion for the fetus.
Hosea 13:16 God promises to dash to pieces the infants of Samaria and the “their women with child shall be ripped upâ€. Once again this god kills the unborn, including their pregnant mothers.
2 Kings 15:16 God allows the pregnant women of Tappuah (aka Tiphsah) to be “ripped openâ€. And the Christians have the audacity to say god is pro-life. How and the hell is it that Christians can read passages where God allows pregnant women to be murdered, yet still claim abortion is wrong?
April 25th, 2007 at 5:58 pmAnd stop calling names,Cheap Tart.
Comment by !!!!!
Just finishing what you started, motherf*cking jackass.
April 25th, 2007 at 5:59 pm"What would Vince Vaughn do?
Comment by Wilco — April 25, 2007 @ 9:52 am"
LOL...
Jennifer Aniston?
April 25th, 2007 at 6:02 pm"So “Chief Attack Dog†isn’t name calling?
Comment by Tundra — April 25, 2007 @ 12:51 pm"
No more so than calling him Vice President... :D
By the way - what's a 'cheap tart'? Is that what the kids at school call Jake's mother?
April 25th, 2007 at 6:09 pmunbelievable,
That must be Jake in stupid and aggressive mode. Cheap Tart? Please. :D
April 25th, 2007 at 6:21 pm"The real question would be, “What Did Jesus Do?â€
From what I remember of the Bible, Jesus was said to have died for the sins of mankind - thereby saving them from devine retribution in the hereafter. So, everybody’s already forgiven and saved.
According to the Bible, Jesus saved us all.
Try as you might, you can’t revoke it."
Comment by smafdy — April 25, 2007 @ 9:29 am
Jesus died for all mankind and all we have to do to claim that salvation is acknowledge He is God's son and died for our sins, that there is no other path to salvation, and ask forgiveness for our sins. Then we are forgiven and saved. And yes, it is then irrevocable. Salvation is freely given, but does require action on our part to accept it.
"...How and the hell is it that Christians can read passages where God allows pregnant women to be murdered, yet still claim abortion is wrong?"
Comment by unbelievable — April 25, 2007 @ 5:58 pm
As liberals have pointed out here repeatedly, you can take passages out of the Bible out of context and make them mean just about anything you want them to. As you well know. I won't take the time or space to address each passage that you listed. They can all be addressed with the same answer. It has always been God's desire for people to live in peace and happiness. After all, He gave us the Garden of Eden. Sin entered the world through Adam and Eve and mankind has continued to turn away from God. Every evil that occurs in the world is the result of sin. God gave us freedom to choose His way or ours and we live with the results. We will all have our day of reckoning and sarcasm and vile comments will be of little use. I don't intend to argue the point with anyone. God doesn't require that Christians argue for Him, just that we be prepared to give an accounting of our faith. The rest is between the individual and God.
April 26th, 2007 at 2:02 am