Experts: Iraq will be worse for U.S. than Vietnam.
“As fighting in Iraq enters its fifth year, an increasing number of experts in foreign policy and national strategy are arguing that the biggest difference may be that the Iraq war will inflict greater damage to U.S. interests than Vietnam did.”
“It makes Vietnam look like a cakewalk,” said retired Air Force Gen. Charles F. Wald, a veteran of the Vietnam War. The domino theory that nations across Southeast Asia would go communist was not fulfilled, he noted, but with Iraq, “worst-case scenarios are the most likely thing to happen.”
Iraq is worse than Vietnam “in so many ways,” agreed Andrew F. Krepinevich Jr., a retired Army officer and author of one of the most respected studies of the U.S. military’s failure in Vietnam. “We knew what we were getting into in Vietnam. We didn’t here.”
Also, President Richard M. Nixon used diplomacy with China and the Soviet Union to exploit the split between them and so minimize the fallout of Vietnam. By contrast, Krepinevich said, the Bush administration has “magnified” the problems of Iraq by neglecting public diplomacy in the Muslim world and by not developing an energy policy to reduce the significance of Middle Eastern oil.
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43 Responses to “Experts: Iraq will be worse for U.S. than Vietnam.”
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Yeah, that is genius. There was less of a reason to go into Iraq. There was not much chance that going into Vietnam would create MORE communists. Now we are radicalizing moderate Muslims. Good job George, you psychotic f#ck.
April 29th, 2007 at 12:44 amJPark - you hit it on the head - they’re absolutely creating more and more enemies every day. It’s the foreign policy, not just of the Bush criminals, but virtually every president of the last 5-6 decades.
We have a military “presence” in 120+ nations around the world - something the Roman empire couldn’t even boast in its long reign…
The U.S. spends trillions and trillions on a national OF-fense, rather than a national DE-fense. We meddle in the affairs of other countries, use “foreign aid” to prop up ruthless dictators and on and on, and on…
The obvious result? The CIA calls it blowback. In short, more enemies with every single action.
For a good read on a new direction for this country, I recommend:
A Foreign Policy for America
April 29th, 2007 at 12:51 amby Harry Browne
http://www.populistamerica.com/a_foreign_policy_for_america
#2 Yeah, blowback is not a new concept. We have been breeding anti-American extremists for a long time. It didn’t start with Bush but damned if he isn’t good at it.
April 29th, 2007 at 12:58 amIraq will be worse for the U.S. than ANYTHING, except possibly the Civil War, and that’s if we’re lucky. Oh, by the way, where the f*ck is Osama? bin forgotten?
April 29th, 2007 at 1:27 amIt is incredible and terrifying that there are still people who still sing praises of Bush. On what planet are these people living? Their myopic presence has steered this country so off course.
April 29th, 2007 at 2:19 amAnd even more incredible is that our democratic leadership will not attempt to impeach, saying that to do so would impede progress on other “important” legislation. Re: cop out.
There can be no progress without first regaining our nation’s credibility among other nations. Even a failed impeachment would regain some credibility.
Emperor Bush does not care, because he wants to control Iraq’s OIL. This is the worst fiasco in US history and is a horrendous disaster too.
April 29th, 2007 at 2:22 amSo correct, Jay. It may take an entire generation to dig out of this failed presidency . Bush has tilted the world on its side.
April 29th, 2007 at 2:27 amWorst.
President.
Ever.
God help us all.
April 29th, 2007 at 3:00 amIf you spend less on defence and on occupying hundreds of military bases around the world you could easily solve global hunger. Isn’t there more to America than stealing from the world’s poor?
April 29th, 2007 at 3:49 amAmerica the world is watching you
April 29th, 2007 at 5:06 amMore money is spent on the military in two weeks than it would take to educate, feed and house the whole world for 5 Years
April 29th, 2007 at 5:07 amAn understatement. Vietnam was and remains a strategic bywater. We had little to do with it before the war and for decades afterwards. Cuba, by comparison, is less of a bywater, thanks to its proximity, emigres and former massive US private investments. Yet, we have had virtually nothing to do with it for forty years.
Iraq, however, lies at the heart of the world’s most important extraction industry. The global economy is oil-based and oil’s availability and price affect virtually every other commodity and service. Thanks to Mr. Bush, the price of oil has multiplied and seems likely to escalate further as supplies dwindle and delivery becomes subject to greater risk.
Mr. Bush has also made Iraq the heart of the cultural divide between East and West, developed and developing, “Christian” and non-Christian. China - with whom we will compete most this century - is virtually untouched by our stupidity in Iraq and will ultimately gain much from it, as will Russia and much of the EU.
Mr. Bush’s debacle in Iraq may signal the end of the US dominance that Mr. Bush inherited, and which his cadre dreamed of making permanent. In less than eight years, Mr. Bush has destroyed our credibility, and eroded our ability to be a force for progress, for international cooperation and non-violent change. His politics of division have done similar damage at home.
George Bush has vastly increased the number and fervor of our enemies, and those with whom we simply compete for global resources. He is a calamity of biblical proportions.
April 29th, 2007 at 6:02 amThe half billion dollars proposed for a Bush Think Tank [sic], to be attached to his presidential “libary” and sleeping room at SMU, would be a monument to the denial and failed dreams of his supporters. That money would be better spent persuading Mr. Bush to change his mind, an even harder task than winning in Iraq. But America and the world would be better for it.
April 29th, 2007 at 6:11 amLadies and gentlemen, I give you the fruits of the Republican Revolution.
April 29th, 2007 at 6:23 amSupport for Iraq War Pullout Hits 64% in US
(Angus Reid Global Monitor) - Many adults in the United States believe their federal government should establish a date for the end of the coalition effort, according to a poll by CBS News and the New York Times. 64 per cent of respondents think the U.S. should set a timetable for the withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq sometime in 2008, up seven points since
http://www.angus-reid.com/ polls/ index.cfm/ fuseaction/ viewItem/ itemID/ 15551
April 29th, 2007 at 6:25 amBAGHDAD (AFP) - Iraq’s firebrand Shiite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr on Saturday lashed out at US President George W. Bush for refusing to set a timetable for the withdrawal of American troops.
April 29th, 2007 at 6:31 am# 5. We have people who “sing the praises” of Bush and the Bush Abomination because the sheeple of the nationa get their “news” from Faux Noise Network. With a built in 24/7 cheerleading network, and with an American public more interested in who’s in the lead on American Idol, we can’t expect anything other than a nation willing to blindly support Bush despite all the horrific evidence to the contrary.
April 29th, 2007 at 6:36 amLies on top of lies on top of lies on top of incompetence on top of more lies!!!
April 29th, 2007 at 6:52 amThe Bush Legacy
April 29th, 2007 at 6:52 amDubya has failed at EVERYTHING he has ever done. Wat to go America, two terms of this putz.
April 29th, 2007 at 7:17 amBaghdad rocked with loud explosions
BAGHDAD - U.S. forces fired an artillery barrage in southern Baghdad Sunday morning, rocking the capital with loud explosions,
April 29th, 2007 at 7:23 amPeople of the US can restore the outlook on their country reasonably fast, but there is only one way to do that, hang the criminals of genocide and high treason.
April 29th, 2007 at 8:11 amAh the long war. Stoopid Bush’s long war. lol
April 29th, 2007 at 8:47 amRestore America?
We are responsible for hundred of thousands Iraqi deaths.
We have stoically sat by while thousands of U.S. troops were killed, and we are responsible for tens of thousands of our brave men and women being permanently mamed.
We are now seen as the evil empire; how do we change that moniker?
Shall we ever be able to regain the helm of the ship of freedom?
There were terrorists to be sure that were willing to attack America; but, that group has grown to millions because of the failings of this presidency. Our children and grandchildren will pay the price and will live in a society of fear and the slavery that such fear creates.
You may not believe in God, but this might be a good time to ask for forgiveness and restoration, and then impeach the Bush Crime Family.
April 29th, 2007 at 8:53 amNixon the Domino Theory, Bush the Cluster Fuck theory and ordering from Domino’s.
April 29th, 2007 at 10:03 amAt times, it’s hard not to believe that Bush and the Repubs didn’t set out to deliberately destroy the country.
And I don’t mean, Steal the money,
or Put the Dems out of business.
I mean, Flat Out, F*#K up the Country, period.
April 29th, 2007 at 10:08 amWhy is everyone fixating on Bush? Do you really think it is _HE_ who is behind the 2 decade long machinations to get better control of Iraq/Middle East?
Have you ever noticed just _how_ much interest a certain V.P. takes in affairs of foreign policy and war-making? It is not Bush, but a whole group of people who conspired to bring America to this catastrophic disaster for their stupid little motherland that they stole from someone else anyway. And Bush is just the perfect idiot who will do whatever he’s told. He’s too stupid to govern. But he has the rubberstamp given to him by the voters. They hijacked the American Republic and flew it right into the middle east.
It’s the PNAC crowd Stupid!!! And they played you morons like a Cello!
Israel wants to devastate the countries in M.E which pose a threat to it. Iraq/Iran were the remaining ones. They got you idiots to take care of Iraq and they knew exactly what was happening. Iraq is going to turn into Nigeria and the warlords are going to control the oil. Just give it a decade.
The other remaining one is Iran. Every single douchebag who cheer-led the Iraq war “effort” is now calling for attacks on Iran. It is the same group of people. They are PNAC, they are the NeoCons and they are AIPAC. More than Oil, it has to do with Israel’s security. They want NO THREAT to their beloved little homeland for the next 50 years. But this is the only time they can actually use the U.S. to devastate their enemies. It would be too late in 10 years even. That is why they are frantic! pushing for a war with Iran despite the debacle.
Not a debacle by their account, Iraq is devastated, never to recover as a viable state and therefore a threat. They want to nuke Iran to achieve the same effect quickly because the U.S. public just isn’t in the mood for getting ‘fooled aginn’.
the sad part is, that all this anarchy generated, ,will actually create more problems than it will solve. It is going to be dominoes for real this time, but it will be the paper-kings of Saudi/Jordan/Syria and the other fake “kingdoms” put up by the west to steal the oil that will fall one after the other.. What will happen then? We’ll have Gaza-fication of the middle east?
Then what? Does Israel have enough cobras and enough bulldozers to devastate the whole of the middle east like they do at will in Gaza?
Look at the names of people who fucked America, and it is a who’s who of the Zionist movement and the pro-israel lobby. And they want you to kill another million, nevermind that the American republic will die because of this. They’ll find someone else to be their daddy.
China and Europe anyone?
April 29th, 2007 at 10:27 amWell, I’ve had quarrels with progressives about he value of Western Values. They seem to think –even though they’re progressives– that we are better than the East.
I love Eastern Philosophy, poetry, and culture. And I don’t see there to be anything particularly greater about the West. The main difference was the rise of Capitalism and the agressive spread of trade.
My East Asian Buddhist professor once explained the difficults in discussing Human Rights in an Asian context. The words “Human Rights” are usually translated as “People Power” in China. And this concept then runs against the Chinese Confucianism with its emphasis on Duties.
Even in the West, the Biblical tradition is one of Duties for Jews and Christians. And in the East, one doesn’t find the emphasis on individual rights –which can become sociopathically egotistical in the West– but a concern for duty to one’s country, one’s parents, one’s spouse, one’s family, one’s friends.
In many ways one can see China as a traditional society slowly being broken by the Western concept of Capitalism as it destroys its forests, rivers, and air. And all to produce the endless supply of products that fill the shelves of WalMart and Home Depot.
If you thought “Family Values” was the rallying cry of the Christian Right, you ain’t seen nothing compared to what will happen if we threaten the centuries old cultures of the East.
April 29th, 2007 at 10:30 amIt will be worse because it was dreamed up and conducted by civilian fools and cowards who learned nothing of the sacrifice and hell of war…they are all cowards who dodged their duties. Dubya the drunken AWOL coward and Cheney the five deferment coward and enabled by the cowards in the PNAC, most of all William Kristol.
April 29th, 2007 at 1:06 pmMost of America’s oil doesn’t come from the Middle East. I see no problem for America if Iran goes to war with Saudi Arabia. The war mongers are wrong. Iraq is not worse than Vietnam. Withdraw all U.S. forces from Iraq immediately and stop the handwringing.
April 29th, 2007 at 1:48 pmThe truth of this conclusion was apparent before the war was even launched.
April 29th, 2007 at 1:56 pmOil is the quintessential global commodity. Oil and oil equivalents are fungible. If oil deliveries are seriously disrupted anywhere, prices everywhere go up. The disruption needn’t happen in the direct supply line to the US. Supplies destined everywhere go up in price or are diverted to where supplies are disrupted.
Villagers raiding oil pipelines in Nigeria are the equivalent of raising poppies in Afghanistan. It’s sometimes the only way to feed a family or “make a living”. Those disruptions are have little impact on oil prices because they are small and local. If those disruptions threatened an entire refinery or pipeline, however, or were terrorists to pose a risk of disrupting Saudi deliveries, global prices would immediately go up.
April 29th, 2007 at 2:17 pmThe attacks by the Islamo-fascists (Muslim extremists/terrorists) began decades ago. Remember the Iranian hostage crisis of the 1970s? How about the Pan Am bombing over Lockerbee, Scotland? Then there was the bombing of the U.S. Marine barracks in Lebanon, the first World Trade Center bombing in 1993, the bombings of the U.S. Embassies in Africa in the 1990s, and the USS Cole bombing in the fall of 2000, followed by the attacks on September 11, 2001. It goes against what many liberal college professors are teaching but these terrorist attacks on the U.S. and many other countries are the result of a large group of radical Muslims; not as the anti-American left-wing want to believe, the fault of U.S. and Western policies or the Jews. Children growing up in many Muslim countries have school textbooks eaching them from the time they can read that Jews, Christians, any people of no faith or any faith other than Islam are infidels and should be killed. These young children are raised to believe that martyrdom is the most noble thing they can do and will be rewarded with 72 virgins in “Heaven.” As Americans we need to stand together, not surrender. Expand your sources of information.
April 29th, 2007 at 2:27 pmIt may be popular to bash the president and America for everything but it is not a sign of having knowledge and knowing the truth. This is not to say the president is perfect, by a long shot, but the hateful rhetoric used against our country and president is also the same language used by our true enemies, such as Al Qaeda and other Islamo-fascist terrorists. Calling President Bush a fascist is a reflection that one does not know the true meaning of the word. When those who say we should leave Iraq and should have never gone there to begin with, this is merely an indication one is not knowledgeable about he facts which triggered the ousting of Saddam and his regime, which over 80% of Iraqi’s supported and still support our troops, or knowledgeable about national security, foreign policy, or political science in general. I have met many of our brave troops who have been to Iraq and some Iraqi citizens, all of which support President Bush and the war against those who are fighting against the new, elected government of Iraq. If we surrender and pull out-who do you think we would be surrendering to? What do you think would happen to the newly elected democracy and the Iraqi people?
April 29th, 2007 at 2:52 pmRobert, you clearly are clueless. You seem to lump any act of terrorism involving the Middle East into some vast conspiracy involving the Protocols of the Elders of Mecca. Get a grip! Your tinfoil hat is on too tight.
You claim those who use fascism to describe Bush don’t know the meaning of the word and then you bandy about the meaningless oxymoron “Islamofascism”. Get a dictionary, Robert!
Finally, 80% of Iraqis welcomed America??? That’s a laugh. When did they do this polling, during Shock & Awe?? And the latest surveys don’t show Iraqis supporting the US troops at all. Indeed, they want the US out NOW. And look how popular America’s puppets, Chalabi & Allawi, turned out to be –losers, both of them. Get a grip, Robert.
I hear the US bureaucrats are already booking spots for the rooftop heliport when the final evacuation of the Green Zone takes place.
April 29th, 2007 at 3:05 pmIf there is no such thing as Islamo-fascists, what would you call the radical Muslim terror groups who are striving for an Islamic world. Groups like Al Qaeda, the Taliban, Hamas, Hezzbolah, Islamic Jihad, are all Islamo-fascists and would cut off your head or blow up you and your family whether you are a Christian, Jew, or atheist. Wake up!! Bin Laden declared waron the U.S. in 1998. Bill Clinton lauched Operation Desert Fox on Iraq in 1998 because, as President Clinton sai, “Saddam poses a threat to America and his neighbors with his chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons programs.” The Left-Wing lunatics are completely out of touch with history, current events, and reality. If these intellectually challenged people hate America so much, just move to one of those socialist countries you admire so much. We don’t want people so gutless that you not only lack the balls to fight for your country, you are also too stupid and ungrateful to support the men and women who have and do fight for our country. Uncle Ho, you apparently are too stupid to know what Republicans stand for and what a neo-nazi is-complete opposites. You are so uneducated and brainwashed that there is no point trying to discuss anything with you and your type. Since you lack the ability to reason and posess no coherent thoughts, all you are able to do is respond with untrue accusations and name-calling.
April 29th, 2007 at 3:23 pmAll right, Robert. I admit that my idea of “fascist” may be somewhat vague and impricise. But there are some words of which I have a clear and concise idea as to their use and meaning, and describe GWB very well. How about words like “liar”, “torturer”, “law breaker”, “dry drunk”, “psychopath”, “spendthrift”, “megalomaniac”, etc., etc. There is plenty of evidence in support of each of these in reference to GWB.
April 29th, 2007 at 3:49 pmDavid - Apparently you have not studied the teachings of radical Islam or read the Koran. Not only have I done both, I have also studied Muslim terrorist groups, which if you would try to learn about, you too would realize that Islamo-fascism is a real threat to Western civilazation. It is not because of anything any of our presidents have done, it is because of their interpretation of the Koran. This is what THEY profess!! If you read and researched the issue, you would see it for yourself. That is unless you too have been brainwashed by the lies propagated by the left-wing media and some of the left-wing radical blogs. I don’t know what polls you are talking about but the Iraqi government does not want us to leave yet as well as the vast majority of Iraqi people. Recent findings are showing that a large amount of attacks against Iraqi’s and U.S. forces are coming from the Al Qaeda forces in Iraq. Sectaian violence is happening too but no to the extent that the media is portraying it. I have been talking to U.S. forces and Iraqi civilians, which have been the source for much of my information. I spend many hours a day doing political research, so David, I have more than just a clue, I have more knowledge on the subject than most, if not all of the so-called experts on CNN and other liberal “news” sources. I have to go but I honestly hopoe you will invest some time doing real and objective research on Radical Islamists and their terrorist organizations. Don’t be like so many of these other liberals who stick their heads in the sand and refuse to see the real threats we are facing. Liberal or conservative, we need to remember we are Americans first. By he way, Islamo-fascist is not an oxymoron. It is a person of the religion Islam who is also a fascist. This fits any one of a number of Radical Muslim terrorist groups. Have a great day!
April 29th, 2007 at 4:05 pmRobert, not only are you clueless, you are arrogantly clueless. I sincerely doubt you’ve read the Koran as you’ve already incorrectly quoted it. And you seem unaware of the history of the term Islamofascism or you would know it was invented by the neo-cons to justify the West’s jihad against Islamic nations.
You can’t cite these polls on Iraqi support for the US occupation because they don’t exist. The polls that have been conducted in the past two years all show great hostility toward the occupation and a desire to have the Americans leave immediately. The government of Iraqi doesn’t support the occupation and al-Maliki despises Bush. Try opening your eyes, Robert.
Your copy of The Protocols of the Elders of Mecca is a forgery, Robert. It’s fake. A consruct of the neo-conservatives eager to “drain the swamp” and occupy Syria, Iraq, Iran, and Afghanistan. This vicious propaganda blinds America from what is really behind the attacks that have occured in the Middle East and on September eleventh.
Sayyid Qutb and the Muslim Brotherhood is perhaps the key source of terrorist philosophy and an inspiration for al-Qaeda. But this is hardly Islam. And even the Islamic terrorist know they Islamic heretics. And they are proud of that. If one is to call them Islamofascists, one must also label Bush’s Republicans Christofascists. It makes as much sense. And the convoluted thinking in both camps is much the same. It is not representative of either religion or the people who follow them
You’re a fraud, Robert. You’re claiming expertise you don’t have and never did. You’re just parroting Republican talking points. The violence advocated by splinter groups like al-Qaeda and given philosophical legitimacy by the heretical teachings of Qutb and Mawdudi and Khomeini. And yet these heresies have been a response to the crimes against Islam committed by the West in Guantánamo, Abu Ghraib, Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, and Palestine.
Don’t expect the insurgency to end any time soon. Or the attacks against Western targets to stop when Americans like yourself are deluded by lies that the occupation army was greeted as liberators and is wanted by the “vast majority”. You, Robert, are deluded. And your Christofascist friends, if you want to use these oxymoronic terms, are deluded as well. And it will end with the Middle East becoming a wasteland.
April 29th, 2007 at 4:51 pmRobert, there are 6 billion people in the world. Try to just sit back and imagine that. Most of them are like you, rushing about work, kids, food. Most countries do not have the resources like US to pay for soldiers to sit around foreign countries, and for those who are occupied, they pretty much resent that, and I’d imagine you’d be too. There are people like Al Qaeda, but they are pretty much self funded hobbyists too, and they do that in between work, kids, and family time. That is until US invaded Iraq.
April 29th, 2007 at 9:14 pmIraq WILL be worse? Nono, Iraq is already long worse… That’s what you get for a Resident that’s deciding with his wallet. He lies to his public and he calls the people that out him liars, he rapes democracy and tries to spread it abroad, he kills for no good reason and dares call his victims the killers, he tortures fake confessions out of people but he will never testify about anything, he will never HAVE to tell the truth about anything. But America is good, America is blessed, America is the best, just not the people.
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