Rice Falsely Claims U.N. Inspectors Thought Saddam Hussein Had WMD
Rice Falsely Claims U.N. Inspectors Thought Saddam Hussein Had WMD
In his new book, former CIA Director George Tenet alleges that there was “never a serious debate that I know of within the administration about the imminence of the Iraq threat,” suggesting the administration had made up its mind to go to war from an early stage.
On CNN’s Late Edition, Condoleezza Rice responded, “We all thought that the intelligence case was strong,” adding that even “the U.N weapons inspectors [thought] Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction.” She concluded, “So there’s no blame here of anyone.” Watch it:
Rice would like the public to believe that no one is to blame because everyone was misled by the intelligence. In fact, U.N. weapons inspectors declared weeks before the invasion that Hussein did not possess WMD. The inspectors publicly lambasted consistently false and misleading U.S. intelligence leading up to the war:
[On March 7, 2003], the head of the IAEA, Mohamed El-Baradei, reported that there was no evidence that Saddam Hussein had any nuclear weapons or was in the process of acquiring them. Mr Blix said: “By then, Mohamed ElBaradei revealed that Niger was not authentic.” British intelligence falsely claimed Iraq had been trying to acquire uranium from Niger. [4/28/05]
So frustrated have the inspectors become that one source has referred to the U.S. intelligence they’ve been getting as “garbage after garbage after garbage.” … The inspectors find themselves caught between the Iraqis, who are masters at the weapons-hiding shell game, and the United States, whose intelligence they’ve found to be circumstantial, outdated or just plain wrong. [2/20/03]
Chief United Nations weapons inspector Hans Blix told the U.N. Security Council that his inspection teams had not found any “smoking guns” after visiting some 125 Iraqi sites. [1/9/03]
Transcript:
RICE: But let me go back to George on this one. I certainly don’t blame George for the slam dunk comment having the sense that that was the reason we went to war. I think the completeness reading of how, certainly, I read the slam dunk comment…
BLITZER: Does he deserve an apology?
(CROSSTALK)
RICE: You know, I was asked about this, and I was asked “Did he say slam dunk?” I said, “Yes, but we all thought that the intelligence case was strong.” To the degree that there was an intelligence problem here, it was not just an intelligence problem with George Tenet, it was not just an intelligence problem with U.S. intelligence.
It was an intelligence problem worldwide. We all thought — including U.N. inspectors — that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. So there’s no blame here of anyone.
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More delusion and denial.
April 29th, 2007 at 1:46 pmIraq did not even have a nuclear power plant so how on earth it had a nuclear weapon bedazzled most of the worlds population. how they could launch a weapon in 45 minutes is amazing it would take 45 years to get one bomb
April 29th, 2007 at 1:49 pmOne wonders why he did NOT complain when it was relevant! Do you not wonder, too?
http://osi-speaks.blogspot.com/ 2007/ 04/ on-national-scene-george-tenet-slams.html#links
April 29th, 2007 at 1:50 pmWould it be so hard for Blitzer to say, “Hey, wait a minute there…”?
Or does he even know that she’s lying. TV news sucks.
April 29th, 2007 at 1:50 pmKindasleazy Rice is too disgusting to look at on a Sunday.
April 29th, 2007 at 1:50 pmWhat a pathetic piece of shit this sack of protoplasm masquerading as a human comports to be.
I wretch at its sight.
When this war started I was in India and 1 billion people Knew Bush was lying and kept saying its the Oil
The world is not as half as stupid as America likes to think
April 29th, 2007 at 1:51 pm#1 comment, I would like to think they were just delusional, but I have to go with denial. They know what they’re saying, and they know that they’re lying, and they’re war criminals.
April 29th, 2007 at 1:53 pmIf she believes what she says, she shouldn’t be so afraid to testify in Congress.
April 29th, 2007 at 1:53 pmwow… talk about making waxman’s case for him…! ferragamo condi clearly demos WHY henry served her with a subpoena and WHY today’s nyt op-ed supports her dragging her well-shod feet in front of his committee to be questioned under oath… oh, condi… you and your big mouth…
April 29th, 2007 at 1:53 pmAnd, yes, I DO take it personallyhttp://takeitpersonally.blogspot.com/
they are on the defensive whenever they throw Condi on these shows…the fact that she is a woman & person of color is meant to deflect & dampen any criticism.
if she is the public face this week, that means they are busy regrouping & planning PR strategy.
April 29th, 2007 at 1:53 pmWhy aren’t the journalists ready to call these toadies out when they lie? Or maybe they should have Rice on at the same time as the head of the IAEA, Mohamed El-Baradei. Let her lie in his face and see what happens.
April 29th, 2007 at 1:54 pmCondi lies for her boyfriend. Some women just do that kind of thing.
April 29th, 2007 at 1:54 pmIf anyone is interested heres a complete timeline to the war in Iraq
http://downingstreetmemo.com/timeline/
lies after lies after lies ……………
April 29th, 2007 at 1:56 pmMore Condi Rice greatest hits:
“I believe the title was, ‘Bin Laden Determined to Attack Inside the United States.’”
Condi Rice, responding to 9/11 Commission question about the title of the infamous August 6, 2001 PDB warning of Al Qaeda strikes in the U.S., May 19, 2004.
“I know there were people who said, ‘Why don’t we get out of this now, take a peace with the South, but leave the South with slaves?’”
Condi Rice, on Iraq withdrawal debate, September 4, 2006.
“Punish France, ignore Germany and forgive Russia.” Secretary State nominee Condoleezza Rice, on her foreign policy approach, 2003.
“I know we’ve made tactical errors, thousands of them I’m sure.”
April 29th, 2007 at 1:56 pmCondoleezza Rice, March 31, 2006.
Tell Congress to use the
Inherent Contempt Process
Congress has another weapon in its arsenal for backing up the subpoena power: the long-dormant “inherent contempt” process, described below in the Congressional Research Service’s “Congressional Oversight Manual” (PDF):
Under the inherent contempt power, the individual is brought before the House or Senate by the Sergeant-at-Arms, tried at the bar of the body, and can be imprisoned. The purpose of the imprisonment or other sanction may be either punitive or coercive. Thus, the witness can be imprisoned for a specified period of time as punishment, or for an indefinite period (but not, at least in the case of the House, beyond the adjournment of a session of the Congress) until he agrees to comply. The inherent contempt power has been recognized by the Supreme Court as inextricably related to Congress’s constitutionally-based power to investigate.
April 29th, 2007 at 1:57 pmThat is why she is called a lying cunt.
April 29th, 2007 at 1:59 pmLIES. Bullshit! The UN inspectors stayed to support their conclusions for as long as they could without putting UN lives at stake from American shock and awe.
April 29th, 2007 at 1:59 pmAsk Mr AlBaradi (sp, sorry, sir!), he will lay it out in a truthful manner.
The star she thought she hitched her wagon to,
April 29th, 2007 at 1:59 pmturns out to be a black hole,
and she’s rapidly approaching the event horizon.
Too funny Verby but Condi’s boyfriend is that limpwrister prime minister of Canada.
April 29th, 2007 at 2:01 pmYou mean the one she slept on the floor of her plane for?
April 29th, 2007 at 2:04 pmNo, wait, that was Jack Straw, from England…..
Was it all a dream when the so-called liberal media was blabbin’ about a possible presidential run for Condi? I guess if no one from that nasty party can step it up to be frontrunner it’s still wide open. Too hilarious.
April 29th, 2007 at 2:05 pmwhat’s so thoroughly amusing, is that, she can go on the Sunday talk shows and spout that trash, because she knows damn well that if she responded to Waxman’s subpeona and said the same crap under oath, they’d drag her away in cuffs.
April 29th, 2007 at 2:08 pmTHANK YOU WOLF BLITZER! For refusing to call Bush administration officials on their obvious lies. You do the country a great dis-service.
April 29th, 2007 at 2:09 pm“So there’s no blame here of anyone.â€
Translation: I’m to blame, I’m scared that I’ll get caught.
April 29th, 2007 at 2:09 pmTobey Tall@6:
Ditto for us Canadians. Only Americans were persuaded by Colin Powell’s powerpoint presentation.
Prime Minister Jean Chretien had an amusing way with language, but his point was valid and he stuck to it:
“Washington is trying to build an international coalition to support the removal of the Iraqi president. British Prime Minister Tony Blair has already endorsed the proposal, saying Saddam is too much of a threat to world peace.
But Chrétien, who is set to meet with U.S. President George W. Bush in Detroit on Monday, said he wants to see clear evidence that Baghdad now possesses weapons of mass destruction.
The prime minister wants UN inspectors to return to Iraq to find evidence of nuclear, chemical or biological weapons. When asked exactly what kind of proof he needs, he put it this way:
“A proof is a proof. What kind of a proof? It’s a proof. A proof is a proof. And when you have a good proof, it’s because it’s proven.”
http://www.cbc.ca/ news/ story/ 2002/ 09/ 05/ iraq_pm020905.html
Americans should have demanded definitive proof, listened to the inspectors, listened to their allies, or waited for UN authorization. It’s incredibly disingenuous for Rice to claim that everyone was as blind and deceived as she and her cohorts.
And it is stunning that Blitzer doesn’t mention this by way of rebuttal. Aren’t these people aware of ‘the Google’? It makes it pretty easy to check Condi’s veracity.
April 29th, 2007 at 2:11 pmToo funny Verby but Condi’s boyfriend is that limpwrister prime minister of Canada.
Comment by the Lone Voice of Reason — April 29, 2007 @ 2:01 pm
He is just providing cover. What better way to nurture your affair with a married man than to pretend you are dating a single man whose sexual preferences are uncertain?
April 29th, 2007 at 2:12 pmRoyalties from these complacent, go along with it, authors should go to the innocent Iraqi women and children who have had their lives ruined by these thugs. Sell his Freedom metal as well. Then again it ain’t worth much having come from the dufus in chief.
April 29th, 2007 at 2:13 pm#21
Was it all a dream when the so-called liberal media was blabbin’ about a possible presidential run for Condi? I guess if no one from that nasty party can step it up to be frontrunner it’s still wide open. Too hilarious.
Comment by the Lone Voice of Reason — April 29, 2007 @ 2:05 pm
David Igalsias is the only Republican with any ethics. Too bad they screwed him, maybe he should take a poke at running.
April 29th, 2007 at 2:14 pmAgain they say things as if they’re true, even when it’s easy fact check to prove it ain’t. Their own believe it because they don’t read. What a bunch of idiots.
April 29th, 2007 at 2:14 pmToo funny Verby but Condi’s boyfriend is that limpwrister prime minister of Canada.
Comment by the Lone Voice of Reason — April 29, 2007 @ 2:01 pm
He is just providing cover. What better way to nurture your affair with a married man than to pretend you are dating a single man whose sexual preferences are uncertain?
Comment by VerbalKint — April 29, 2007 @ 2:12 pm
FAGHAG
April 29th, 2007 at 2:16 pmits a sad sad day when the closest thing our country gets to credible reporting is on the comedy channel….sharing the airwaves with shows along the lines of “ow my balls!”…
ps..y’all should rent/buy the movie Idiocracy. Alot of people on this list would appreciate it:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/
“Joe Bauers, an Army librarian, is judged to be absolutely average in every regard, has no relatives, has no future, so he’s chosen to be one of the two test subjects in a top-secret hibernation program. He and hooker Rita were to awaken in one year, but things go wrong and they wake up instead in 2505. By this time, stupid people have outbred intelligent people; the world is (barely) run by morons–and Joe and Rita are the smartest people in America. ”
One of the funnier parts is when you see the world is full of idiots and thus fox is the only news station that has survived.
April 29th, 2007 at 2:23 pmImpeach her along with Bush and Cheney. And Gonzales.
April 29th, 2007 at 2:28 pmToo funny Verby but Condi’s boyfriend is that limpwrister prime minister of Canada.
Comment by the Lone Voice of Reason — April 29, 2007 @ 2:01 pm
He is just providing cover. What better way to nurture your affair with a married man than to pretend you are dating a single man whose sexual preferences are uncertain?
Comment by VerbalKint — April 29, 2007 @ 2:12 pm
FAGHAG
Comment by Wretched Refuse — April 29, 2007 @ 2:16 pm
Wow! Sexist, homophobic, and inaccurate. A trifecta!
1) The Prime Minister, Stephen Harper is married.
2) You may be referring to rumours about the Foreign Minister, Peter MacKay. He’s no more the Prime Minister than Condi is President.
3) I suppose by “limpwrister” you are implying that he is gay. Very unlikely, given his personal history. We have a number of gay men holding office in Canada but, when we talk about their sexual preference (which is rarely because it is irrelevant), we try not to use slurs.
April 29th, 2007 at 2:28 pm07-02-2003 Bush comments on insurgency in Iraq “bring them on”
04-29-2007 Insurgents comments to Bush in America “bring them on”
April 29th, 2007 at 2:29 pmBlitzer cannot brin ghimself to challenge Rice and Jamie McIntyre can’t bring himself to admit they were complicit in the Jessica Lynch fraud on the public — CNN went down a few more levels today — soon they will be on par with Fox.
April 29th, 2007 at 2:30 pmWar with Iraq before a genuine attempt at inspection and disarmament, without genuine international support, could swell the ranks of Al Qaeda with sympathizers and trigger an escalation in terrorist acts.
—SENATOR TED KENNEDY (9/27/02)
April 29th, 2007 at 2:31 pmSelf-serving George Tenet does not disappoint. Evidence that Saddam had WMD’s was in the 2002 National Security Estimate….so if George was SO sure the info that all primary Western leaders were relying on was bogus, why is he waiting until now til now for his mea culpa?
Oh well - On a bright note, at least he recovered his memory in shorter time than the insidiously evil Robert McNamara…
Happy Sunday Progs and Progettes!!
April 29th, 2007 at 2:32 pmIt’s so maddening that these criminals can lie like this and not be struck dead by lightning. And so many, many innocent people have been killed because of it. That’s what I can’t get my head around. Someone has to pay for this horror, and I’m afraid it’s going to be all of us, not the real perpetrators.
April 29th, 2007 at 2:34 pm“We have a number of gay men holding office in Canada but, when we talk about their sexual preference (which is rarely because it is irrelevant), we try not to use slurs.
Comment by Freaked-Out Canadian — April 29, 2007 @ 2:28 pm”
Because you’re the most educated nation on the face of the planet. We are currently about 13th (down from 5th since Bush took office). When people reach the height of their intellect, they ad hominem attack… And it’s no less repugnant coming from the left than the right.
I agree - let’s show some grace here and argue the issues, not insult minorities.
April 29th, 2007 at 2:36 pm“It’s so maddening that these criminals can lie like this and not be struck dead by lightning.
Comment by John H. Farr — April 29, 2007 @ 2:34 pm”
Which is why WE need to do something, instead of waiting for some divine retrobution that doesn’t exist.
I think that something should be impeachment.
April 29th, 2007 at 2:41 pmWell if the Condi quote about the South is accurate, it simply shows that no matter how much education one has, a person can still be a complete and total idiot.
April 29th, 2007 at 2:42 pmCondi really needs to go back and reread some Civil War histories (or just catch a Discovery or History Channel documentary) before opening her mouth. Perhaps she was correct about Union feelings before Sept 1862, but after Antietam, the overwhelming feeling in the Union was that the War had become ABOUT liberating slaves in Rebel-held territory. (Of course, the Emancipation Proclamation did nothing for the slaves in the Union’s four slaveholding states, nor did it do anything for the slaves in parts of the South that Union forces occupied since those areas were specifically exempt from the effects of the Proclamation.)
Of course, I shouldn’t be surprised when she works for a president who used the Dred Scott decision as his explanation for wanting to choose “strict constructionists” as future Supreme Court nominees.
Maybe having accurate knowledge about Civil War history should be a prerequisite for any Republicon politician before they invoke any comparison to that period of time.
Re:#37.
(paraphrased)
“Why is george Tenet waiting til now for his mea culpa?”
Timing is everything.
And he wanted to believe he had a chance of avoiding an extraordinary rendition.
April 29th, 2007 at 2:44 pmMA,
The UN knew no such thing. Here’s reality for you (watch out - it’s gonna smack you):
From the mouth of Scott Ritter (former head of UN Weapons Inspection Team in Iraq & former US Marine):
“The Iraqi army is in total disarray, capable of little more than manning security pickets along the Iran-Iraq border, in northern Iraq (Kurdistan), and in southern Iraq. I have visited numerous Iraqi military barracks and have seen soldiers in tattered uniforms and bare feet. Military training is without substance, barely sufficient to convert recruits into simple soldiers, let alone provide skills in the intricacies of modern combined arms combat-the integration of infantry, armor, artillery, and air power in a single military action. Reduced to five corps from seven before the Gulf War, the army today relies on an armored force whose centerpiece if the T-55 tank, a relic of the 1950’s. The few T-62 tanks and BMP armored fighting vehicles are only one generation newer, and countless generations behind world-leading U.S. battlefield technology.”
“Today, Iraq no long possesses arms of mass destruction.” - From an interview with the London-based Arabic newspaper Al-Hayat, March 31, 1999
“The U.S. has perverted the U.N. weapons process by using it as a tool to justify military actions, falsely so. … The U.S. was using the inspection process as a trigger for war.” — From an interview on the NBC Today show, December 17, 1998.
April 29th, 2007 at 2:45 pmThis is not good news for Hillary. Anyone who has access to newspaper archives will know that this “Had we known then what we know now” line ain’t gonna wash. We did know. Blix and ElBaradei were on national TV reporting what they’d found as they found.
Important things to remember: Saddam willing allowed his mid-range missles to be destroyed by the UN weapons inspectors even though they only violated the UN sanctions if fired without a payload; the UN weapons inspectors were not obstructed by Iraq in the way they had been in the 1990s; Blix was perplexed by the American bragging that they knew where Saddam had his cache of WMD hidden but wouldn’t provide any useful information to the UN weapons inspectors; and the Senate Intelligence Committee knew the Oct 2002 NIE was flawed and poorly supported at the time the received it.
I mean, the White House was playing a game of bluff in 2002 and early 2003. Anyone could have called them on the so-called evidence at any time. Colin Powell was embarrassed after his speech before the UN Security Council was shredded. And yet Hillary and Co didn’t challenge the administration. What happened to that Second UN Resolution? Why were France and Germany vilified for objecting –surely the Senate knew these people had spies in the area too? And ‘regime change’ is against international law –although American lawmakers have never seriously embraced that concept. Saddam could only ‘legally’ be taken out if he presented an imminent threat to the world. And he did not.
April 29th, 2007 at 2:45 pmi hate these people who undermine our case by posting homophobic & sexist comments.
the facts are on our side, we dont need to make slurs.
April 29th, 2007 at 2:47 pmA lie ?
April 29th, 2007 at 2:49 pmThe lady doth protest too much?
You can’t imagine my surprise.
#7 Comment by the Lone Voice of Reason — April 29, 2007 @ 1:53 pm
#1 comment, I would like to think they were just delusional, but I have to go with denial. They know what they’re saying, and they know that they’re lying, and they’re war criminals.
I fear you give her/them too much credit, and let reality (mine) off the hook!
It is a chess game! She knows exactly what she is saying. There is no denial or delusion here. Just carefully considered desperation.
And that is the reason the leadership has to react carefully and stay in tune with the general public at large. Not just listen to us progressives who are ahead of the curve.
Reality on the ground (here in the USA) is the benchmark they have to react to. Move too fast and Rove will grab the initiative. So far we have seded nothing and they are crumbling.
The “end game” has arrived. Remember that the hardest game to win is a won game! Wish all you people will understand this chess analogy. It is so right on.
April 29th, 2007 at 2:49 pmThanks, unbelievable.
Whatever devastating mistakes Condi Rice has made, they have to do with her incurious, uninformed, inflexible or ideological approach to her job…not with her sex, race or orientation.
Right-wing talk-radio has made an industry of vicious wink-wink-nudge-nudge innuendos, chortling, and ad hominem slurs. It has cheapened civil debate and infected even the most influential media outlets. Mark Halperin and John Harris write that, “Matt Drudge rules our world.” Well, maybe with Imus’ firing, that world is beginning to change. But it happens one small step at a time…even in the comment fields of blogs.
April 29th, 2007 at 2:51 pm“People were trapped by their own ignorance and the fear that is induced by ignorance so that they could not stand up and speak truth to power because, frankly speaking, most people didn’t know what the truth was. We were told that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, massive stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction, and, to be honest, most Americans didn’t have a clue what a weapon of mass destruction was. They didn’t know what chemical weapons were, biological weapons were, long-range ballistic missiles. They might have a vague understanding of what a nuclear weapon is, but not really, not what it takes to build a nuclear weapon. They were so ignorant about nuclear weapons that they bought into the argument that Iraq, a nation that is sitting on many tons of yellow-cake uranium ore, would have to go to an African country to buy new stockpiles. They were so ignorant about nuclear weapons that they bought at face value Dick Cheney’s proclamation that Iraq was acquiring aluminum tubes to build a new family of centrifuges to enrich uranium when everybody who deals with the enrichment of uranium using the centrifuge method knows that aluminum tubes will never work. We don’t build them with aluminum tubes. It doesn’t happen. But, no, the American people, informed as always about the complexities of these very difficult issues, said ‘my gosh, the President has said yellow cake, and Dick Cheney has said aluminum tubes, and there must be a nuclear threat because Condoleezza Rice has told us ‘we don’t want to wait for the smoking gun to become a mushroom cloud.’ So like the compliant little sheep that we are, we *bah, bah* get led down the path towards a war that has been a disaster, an unmitigated disaster, a war based on a lie, a war based on not just the ignorance of the American public but the moral indifference of those whom we elect to hire office to represent us in our name, namely the congress of the United States of America.”
- Scott Ritter, November 17, 2005, Amherst
April 29th, 2007 at 2:56 pmDavid at #44
This is not good news for Hillary.
Hillary needs to eat some humble pie on this one. It’s one of the reasons that Kucinich is so important to the ongoing campaign. He is a visible reminder that thoughtful, courageous people could see through the lies if they wanted to and weren’t playing it caltulatingly safe. Too bad Russ Feingold isn’t running too.
Here’s a glimpse of Kucinich’s precience:
April 29th, 2007 at 2:58 pmhttp://www.youtube.com/denniskucinich
“Thanks, unbelievable.”
What’s funny was that I was thinking the same thing, reading the posts, and then there was yours :)
“Whatever devastating mistakes Condi Rice has made, they have to do with her incurious, uninformed, inflexible or ideological approach to her job…not with her sex, race or orientation.”
Agreed. We are the only Industrialized Nation not to have Equal Rights laws - as a result, anyone who isn’t a white man is, by our culture, seen as flawed. We don’t accept someone as inferior in intellect or morality just because they are white and male, therefore, I wholly agree that we shouldn’t accept someone as inferior in intellect or morality just because they are black, female, Mexican, etc. Skin color and gender are things no one controls.
“Right-wing talk-radio has made an industry of vicious wink-wink-nudge-nudge innuendos, chortling, and ad hominem slurs. It has cheapened civil debate and infected even the most influential media outlets. Mark Halperin and John Harris write that, “Matt Drudge rules our world.†Well, maybe with Imus’ firing, that world is beginning to change. But it happens one small step at a time…even in the comment fields of blogs.
Comment by Freaked-Out Canadian — April 29, 2007 @ 2:51 pm”
Well said. And again, I totally agree :D
April 29th, 2007 at 3:03 pmRegardless, of her sex, or race, she is an incompetent, inept, disconnected bushie, just like the rest of the bushies. Campbell Brown took every opportunity on the Today show to praise and try and rehabilitate condibushie, but it ain’t going to work. Their huge failures are on display for all to see and nobody is buying the ,”there is no blame here for anyone.” Plenty of blame and she deserves her share.
April 29th, 2007 at 3:05 pmUnbe - You might be a citizen of the UN - I am an American. My countrys’ leaders, and a host of allied leaders, relied on the same info Bill and Hillary recited as well as a plethora of Dem/Progs. Of course, without core beliefs (and wanting to seeeem patriotic, the newly anti-Iraq war Dems are hoping to win the “blowing in the wind” contest of public opinion.
Happy Sunday to you!
April 29th, 2007 at 3:10 pmSounds like Condi’s got a mild case of Gonzo disease.
” I don’t recall” was uttered on Russert’s show when questions were asked related to the Niger uranium boondoggle and then to say on CNN that the UN inspectors did think Hussein had WND’s when Blix explicitly said he didn’t have any.
This mind melting must be contageous.
April 29th, 2007 at 3:10 pmunbelievable at #48
Ritter uses “ignorance” five times in that short passage. Well, who is genuinely responsible for that ignorance. After high school, what part of society is tasked with educating the American populace about issues relevant to their democracy. If it isn’t the press, I don’t know who it is.
And yet, so little of the press’ energy is devoted to explaining the history and geography of Iraq and Iran, explaining the breadth and diversity of Islam, detailing the difference between nuclear energy programs and nuclear weapons production, or exploring the long and often culpable relationship that America has had with both Iraq and Iran. Not to mention following up on Katrina, Afghanistan, or Darfur.
Instead, they pump up stories of celebrity misbehavior, wardrobe malfunctions, and sad but isolated cases of violence and murder.
If people in a democracy are uninformed or worse, deluded - say, by believing in a connection between 9/11 and Iraq - it is because the press has failed in its responsibilities, or been undermined.
April 29th, 2007 at 3:11 pmDear Canadian - Thank you for your support of Dennis Kucinich. He throws red meat to the Progressive/Socialists here and abroad - and with so many vegans, they could use it.
April 29th, 2007 at 3:12 pmComment by valiant venus — April 29, 2007 @ 3:10 pm
Varmint Genus/Mitey Coprolite,
Your post is without an ounce of substance, as usual.
Fact remains that the UN disputed the existence of Iraq’s WMDs, which is why the Bush administration questioned the UN’s relevancy during the run-up to the war -or have you forgotten that now?
It is also the reason why the rabid Bush cult followers (that’d be you) haven’t stopped bashing the UN ever since: It reminds you of your utter stupidity and of the ill-made decision of invading a nation that was not a threat to its neighbors, let alone the US.
Your bringing the Clintons into this discussion is nothing but a weak attempt (the kind only you can make) at changing the subject.
April 29th, 2007 at 3:19 pmCan we put this tired old cannard of “Clinton had the same intelligence” or ” we all thought this or that?”
These arguments are simply a way of changing the subject. The point is not what anyone “felt” or “believed.” The point is the question of whether or not they would have invaded Iraq. We all know that Gore or Kerry or Clinton would have let the UN inspection process continue and that eventually everyone would have been convinced that there were no WMD’s and there would have been no invasion. He would have continued to be hemed in and controlled with no civil war in his country.
Please conservatives. Just let go of this intellectually dishonest attempt at moving goalposts and obfuscating the real issues.
April 29th, 2007 at 3:22 pmOh, and Varmint Genus,
Your “new anti-Iraq war” little smear is, once again, off the mark. At least as far as I am concerned. I was against the invasion before -way before- it happened.
Don’t get mad at us because you were duped; it’s your fault you are such a stupid, blind, brain-dead Bush cult follower.
Try learning from your mistakes, for a change.
April 29th, 2007 at 3:23 pm“Unbe - You might be a citizen of the UN - I am an American.”
Bang your head this morning? You’re as incoherent as usual…
We’re ALL inhabitants of EARTH. America is an arbitrary name of an arbitrary location on Earth.
“My countrys’ leaders, and a host of allied leaders, relied on the same info Bill and Hillary recited as well as a plethora of Dem/Progs.”
Since when do you use the Clintons for a defense? LOL Desperation knows no boundaries (i.e. morals and integrity).
I am an Independent, so if the Democrats acted as stupidly as the Republicans by ingoring the riduculous lies told by the Bush cabal, then I am not swayed. Unlike you, I follow the facts, not party lines or ideologies.
And the facts, if you bother to stop ignoring them were obvious that Saddam, and eighth rate military, was NO threat to the United States.
Go Google “Buying the War” by Bill Moyers. There’s the logic trail that proves you were duped by the Bush Regime, the majority of Congress, and the media.
“Of course, without core beliefs (and wanting to seeeem patriotic, the newly anti-Iraq war Dems are hoping to win the “blowing in the wind†contest of public opinion.”
I suppose you refuse to acknowledge the news about the latest sex-scandal corruption in your party, yet again… If anyone is without ethics, it is your side of the fence.
“Happy Sunday to you!
Comment by valiant venus — April 29, 2007 @ 3:10 pm”
Every day is happy for me, I don’t have to turn it into some silly celebration to make it so… Go buy some shoes. I’m sure that will help with your loneliness.
April 29th, 2007 at 3:23 pmValiant, do you really believe that Dems have no “core values?” Come on. There you are folks. A common conservative cannard — over half of the citizens of the U.S. have no core values. Does that make any sense to anyone?
April 29th, 2007 at 3:24 pm#45 Comment by n69n — April 29, 2007 @ 2:47 pm
“i hate these people who undermine our case by posting homophobic & sexist comments.
the facts are on our side, we dont need to make slurs.”
Anger is a form of grief!
Yes, we have the facts, and yes these slurs are not needed or good. That said, understand that the reason for this outpouring of anger is what has happened over the last 6 years. Blame the right people! It is BushCo that is at fault.
Our anger is truly real, and justified, and Bushco deserves all of it and more. What better way to express the pain and hurt we feel at the death and maining of our finest, for deceptive and political reasons? This open forum helps us grieve our loss of so many things Bushco has brought about.
So, while I agree that their may be a better way to express grief, I won’t criticize the expressions made by others, as strong or as revengeful as they may sound. We all grieve in our own way and in our own time.
I, for one, am angry as hell at what has befallen us in America and the world because of these neocon bastards. My wishes might just surpass those angry responses you “hate”.
As the Mikado sang in the Gilbert and Sullivan song, “Let the punishment fit the crime.”
And, if hell exists, the devil can hardly wait for this crop of “Christian neocon” hypocrits to arrive.
April 29th, 2007 at 3:24 pm#57 - Gregor
Apparently MA believes everyone is as ill-informed and sheep-like as she is.
I was against this war far before it ever began.
April 29th, 2007 at 3:28 pmThere you are folks. A common conservative cannard — over half of the citizens of the U.S. have no core values. Does that make any sense to anyone?
Comment by Bluedog49
It makes sense to MA. I’m just grateful that these self-righteous wingnuts are so upfront with their delusions. It’s easier to keep track of them that way.
I guess lying about every single thing in one’s life — from family to career is a core value. If so, I hope I never acquire them.
April 29th, 2007 at 3:31 pmDoes that make any sense to anyone?
Comment by Bluedog49 — April 29, 2007 @ 3:24 pm
It makes sense only to the self-appointed moral police patrol who extol the virtues of celibacy and abstinence in public, while using escort services to get “massages”.
It also makes sense to the people who believe them. Like Varmint Genus and her ilk -hypocritical lot that they are.
April 29th, 2007 at 3:32 pmVladiant Venus, #52, the last time I checked the USA was a citizen of the UN as well. Indeed, it was one of the Founders of the UN. It has a veto on the Security Council –and yet was too chicken to return for a Second Resolution authorizing invasion. Why? Because France, Germany, Russia, and China didn’t buy this crap about WMD.
The Coalition of the Willing –or Billing, as it was jokingly called– was hardly a collection of the best and brightest. It’s been a nightmare for Blair. The governments of Spain and Italy fell because of their support. And the ragtag bunch of former Warsaw Pact countries are essentially owned by the USA through the World Bank & the IMF.
If America doesn’t want to surrender the smallest amount of sovereignty to enter the international community, it should reembrace isolationism and give up trying to be world cop, world banker, and world preacher. Vladiant Venus, you can’t blow talk of freedom & democracy out your backside if you have only contempt for the other peoples of the world, their cultures, languages, and governments.
Try the Golden Rule for a change. The CIA seems to think it can meddle in every election outside the USA in a way that would enrage Americans should, say, France or Germany tried to do it in Ohio or Florida. US interests do not trump the human rights of non-Americans. That’s what the UN is all about. It’s time Americans got over their Messianic complex.
April 29th, 2007 at 3:32 pm> why is he waiting until now til now for his mea culpa?
because like every piece of vermin who lies down with the dogs in this administration, he was convinced to “take one for the team” to cover for the real liars. yes, he was a democrat, but if george bush kept him on board, theres no way the guys a left wing loonie.. if anything hes more a lieberman-eqsue wolf in sheeps clothings whose political affiliations and loyalties blow in the wind….. and in fact his weather vane idealogy would explain why hes singing a new tune now that hes finally figured out what an mindnumbing fiasco iraq has become. are we staying till iraqis have the right to be just like iran if 51 percent of the people choose that style of government?
>On a bright note, at least he recovered his memory in
>shorter time than the insidiously evil Robert McNamara…
amazing that you talk about memory lapses while defending alberto “I don’t recall remembering my last name” Gonz….uhm..something..
Honestly, your jibes are so self parodying I find it increasingly hard to beleive you are serious about the things you say.
Oh, and after demanding more and more specifics about murthas medals, I was STILL wondering if you could give us some detailed info about the various medals received by the current imposters in the executive branch and republican members of congress?
and is your statement that you’ve seen a purple heart medal in person as accurate as the statement that your a lawyer?
oh, and hermaphodite, only a handful of senators, sworn to secrecy by law, had access to the undoctored, decidely more ambigious information darth dick and dumbya had. its been posted here so many times, and you are so incredibly impervious to logic or reason, theres no point in posting it again.
and stop wishing us a good sunday you patronizing ugly little hag megan. get off the keyboard, put the pipe down, and go get yourself a few dozen egg mcmuffins so you get enough muscle mass to pull the cord on that weed wacker and use it on your filthy dandruff-ridden arms.
ps. saw your myspace. your mother is almost as ugly as you, whoever she whored herself out to that caused your birth must have been even uglier.. and cheap…. daddy still around or he leave when mommy started shooting up and charging him more than 20 bucks?
April 29th, 2007 at 3:33 pmvaliant venus at #52
Back in 2003 there were plenty of Americans and plenty of Dems who thought the pretext for war was specious, the plans for war naive, the justification for war criminal, and the potential for disaster likely.
Ritter, Kennedy, Kucinich, Obama, Feingold, Gore and many, many others. Over the past four years, the adminisration has cast aspersions on their patriotism, the press has marginalized them, and the pundits have mocked them mercilessly.
The real question is whether those who showed such terrible judgement before (and since) are therefore worthy of being elected to high office, or of maintaining their perch at the apex of press and pundity.
If a politician has a record, in retrospect, of knocking the ball out of the park, shouldn’t their batting average count when the new season’s team is being assembled? Shouldn’t the strike-out kings and queens’ records count against them?
And, if a pundit’s opinions, over time, have been shown to be precient, shouldn’t that precience be rewarded with more, not less, exposure?
To pretend that everyone was persuaded by the ‘bad intelligence’ in 2003 not only diminishes the courage and insight of your best politician and journalists, but it virtually guarantees a perpetuation of the dialectical conditions that led to the current crisis.
April 29th, 2007 at 3:35 pmFreaked-Out Canadian,
The media is whole heartedly the most powerful messenger in the United States. A perfect example: my brother says “I don’t believe anything I read on the Internet”. Why? Well, because the MSM on television told him not to… Of course they did, they would rather, for sake of profits, have him tune in there than come here. But he doesn’t have time to consider that, because he’s gotta watch NASCAR or other garbage. And then, he and my mother have lengthy discussions about Anna Nicole Smith’s death, Britny Spears meltdown, Brangelina, atc. And if I interject anything political, the two of them spout propaganda they heard on teh local news, and decide that the both of them can’t be wrong - so I must be. Well, until two or three years later when it finally comes out in the news. It’s horrific what our culture has become, and teh fact that a tool that could be used to educated people has become the epitome of making them ignorant.
I have this thing I do with my students prior to our study of architectural styles across the world. I project a map of the world on the wall and say “For bonus points, today we are going to study architecture in (fill in the blank)… Who can point to it on the map?”. For Iran, I had gone around the entire class, and no could point to it. No one. And I have some AP students…
April 29th, 2007 at 3:35 pmOkay, so now we know precisely how little the Republicans rate the memories of the American people. The inspectors were pretty downright emphatic on there being no evidence of WMDs in Iraq.
Now, if the Rightwing is to continue to rely on outright lies to defend their record, it is time they got shown up as such on national TV.
It is time for the Democrats to release and advert showing Blix’s testimony to the contrary with something along these lines in it:
Condi Rice says that the weapons inspectors in Iraq thought Saddam had WMDs.
Que clip of Hanz Blix saying that “his inspection teams had not found any “smoking guns†after visiting some 125 Iraqi sites.”
Followed by the voice over:
Well Condi, they could have fooled us.
April 29th, 2007 at 3:36 pm“We’re ALL inhabitants of EARTH. America is an arbitrary name of an arbitrary location on Earth.”
Very goood - yes, we all “inhabit” the EARTH - - I have an allegiance to the United States of America (which is not as arbitray as you might think.) Perhaps you do not.
Pssst…credible source? Bill Moyers???? What a laugh!!! He’s been cheering for Amerca’s enemies for the last 40 years…..
And I’m sure as TP has not noted ONE Prog in the Hooker-gate scandal that no Dems or Progs were involved…..Now maybe if they could figure out a way to tax it……
Thanks but I don’t need any new shoes - is that your cloying attempt to seem feminine? It’s a nice start!!
April 29th, 2007 at 3:39 pmApparently MA believes everyone is as ill-informed and sheep-like as she is.
Comment by Zooey — April 29, 2007 @ 3:28 pm
Ill-informed and “short-memoried”
Now, all of the sudden, she forgets that the UN was the target of smears and insults by her Dear (mis)Leader and his cronies, along with the US’ European allies who refused to fall for the tall tales.
These people truly have no shame whatsoever.
April 29th, 2007 at 3:40 pm“Don’t get mad at us because you were duped; it’s your fault you are such a stupid, blind, brain-dead Bush cult follower. ”
Ding ding ding ding!
Clearly the information was there if you wanted to see it. And most people did not. Didn’t even try…
“Try learning from your mistakes, for a change.
Comment by Gregor Samsa — April 29, 2007 @ 3:23 pm”
Yeah… Now that’s hilarious!
April 29th, 2007 at 3:40 pm“And, if hell exists, the devil can hardly wait for this crop of “Christian neocon†hypocrits to arrive.
Comment by Merlin — April 29, 2007 @ 3:24 pm”
It doesn’t, therefore we need to bring justice here through Impeachment.
The problem isn’t anger - it’s using racial and gender epithets. There’s a difference. And like it or not, the second form isn’t credible. We’re angry as well. Call her stupid for chosing stupidity, not for incidentally being a woman….
April 29th, 2007 at 3:44 pm#52 Comment by valiant venus — April 29, 2007 @ 3:10 pm
“…the newly anti-Iraq war Dems are hoping to win the “blowing in the wind†contest of public opinion.
Happy Sunday to you!”
Well, Hi sweetie,
Welcome aboard! Being a bit snide this afternoon, are we? The trolls must have been really worked up in the locker room this morning.
Good you recognize that the “contest of public opinion” is where it is at. Many don’t!
You do know you are reaching beyond your grasp with the above remark don’t you? That you have lost in that most important arena? I think you do, but hey, they pay you well.
So you are thrashing and flailing about trying to find a way back to the neocon fantasy you work for. Too bad! It is a shame to see a great mind like yours lost to the “devil.” Soul selling is rampant these days. You know, 30 pieces of silver and all.
Have you thought much about what will happen at the “end time?” Of course you have. The question you should be asking is who is the antichrist and are you following the right “god.”
Frightening isn’t it?
Toodles.
April 29th, 2007 at 3:48 pmI was reading the reports from Han Blix, Scott Ritter, and I sought out Knight-Ridder’s reports among those from the WaPo and the NYT. I happened to be home the day Powell went to the UN.
April 29th, 2007 at 3:49 pmFrom that day forward my skepticism became total unbelief.
Bush was going forward (incredibly) based upon what even a middle-American like myself was not finding believable. And there were tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of us who wrote, protested, and pleaded with legislators to think again, and demand more evidence.
So what’s Condi Rice’s excuse? Tenet said “slam dunk?” The word of the neocons in the administration who never saw a war they didn’t like and never fought?
I am sorry, I hold it against all who voted for this war that they did not do their due diligence. I know the White House threw up obstacles in their path, but they should have held off until they were absolutely certain before giving the warmonger authority to use force if necessary.
That was like giving a butane lighter to an arsonist.
another great screen shot…
April 29th, 2007 at 3:51 pmi notice her hair is becoming more frazzled since face the nation…
condi’s having a busy day! … it’s hard work…
…
Merlin at #60
“What better way to express the pain and hurt we feel at the death and maining of our finest, for deceptive and political reasons? This open forum helps us grieve our loss of so many things Bushco has brought about. So, while I agree that their may be a better way to express grief, I won’t criticize the expressions made by others, as strong or as revengeful as they may sound. We all grieve in our own way and in our own time.”
The question isn’t one of limiting the expression of anger or grief. Use all the swear words you want, any hyperbole, but when the expression of grief creates new, unintended victims, it is no longer possible to justify grieving “in our own way and in our own time.” Healthy grieving does not spawn more grief.
Attacking Ann Coulter by attacking transvestities,transexuals or women; attacking Lynne Cheney or Condi Rice by attacking lesbians or gays or women; attacking Mark Foley by attacking gays; attacking Michelle Malkin by attacking Fillipinas or immigrants and their ‘anchor babies’.
Any reader of the bogs is familiar with these expressions of what you might call grief and anger. They are, however, simultaneous expressions of both grief and anger as well as racism and sexism. Grief and anger doesn’t provide a free pass to insult whole groups of people.
Consider the road rage model:
As I have often pointed out, when a dangerous driver cuts me off, and I yell, “Screw off, asshole,” it is anger. When a driver of another sex or race cuts me off, and I yell…well, you can imagine…it’s a sign of biases deeper than my disgust for bad road manners.
April 29th, 2007 at 3:54 pmAfter 15 years of bombing Iraq-having killed over 2 million Iraqis-anyone who still believes anything the Bush administration says-deserves the consequences of such a idiotic liar and murderer.
April 29th, 2007 at 3:54 pmVladiant Venus, it’s painfully obvious that you are not loyal to the USA. You seem to owe allegiance only to the Rightwing of the Republican Party –and probably only to it in Red States.
If you are unable to read the US Constitution without thinking that it really only applies to WASPs with property, or that the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights is for them and not us, then I don’t think you can claim to be a loyal American at all. You’re just an opportunist who would betray the Stars & Stripes in a second if it meant rewards of power & wealth.
April 29th, 2007 at 3:55 pm“I have an allegiance to the United States of America (which is not as arbitray as you might think.) Perhaps you do not.”
I have an allegiance to the facts. Definitely you do not. You prefer things that shine…
“Pssst…credible source? Bill Moyers???? What a laugh!!! He’s been cheering for Amerca’s enemies for the last 40 years…..”
Prove that claim. He wasn’t the source - his interviewees are. Not that I expect you to understand that. I have come to never expect you to understand anything thatrequires critical thinking skills.
I also posted information from Scott Ritter. You wanna slam him too? Since, after all, you can’t argue the facts, there’s nothing left but ad hominems and lies…
“And I’m sure as TP has not noted ONE Prog in the Hooker-gate scandal that no Dems or Progs were involved…..Now maybe if they could figure out a way to tax it……”
Most of us said that it would be a large majority of Rebugs. But you choose what one liberal says in jest, and use it to paint the whole of us. This is precisely why you have ZERO credibility. The only reason we respond to you, freak who jokes about dead children, is for the sake of those who read the comments in an attempt to decide for themselves from the facts. Your nonsense gives us a platform for debunking the right-wing propaganda.
“Thanks but I don’t need any new shoes - is that your cloying attempt to seem feminine? It’s a nice start!!
Comment by valiant venus — April 29, 2007 @ 3:39 pm”
No, it was an attempt to compare you to people like Imelda Marcos…
Besides, only you need to ’seem’ feminine. I just am. Comes from having been born with two X Chromosomes.
April 29th, 2007 at 3:59 pmCondi,
Instead of LYING on Sunday (the LORD’S day) talk shows,
you better go in front of Waxman’s committee and start telling the TRUTH.
Otherwise, you will end up with ME and our new MASTER
SATAN.
The choice is YOURS, Condi. Better SAVE YOUR SOUL, otherwise
See you in hell Condi (cause I’LL be THERE),
April 29th, 2007 at 4:01 pmMr. Bush
MURDEROUS WAR CRIMINAL
COWARDLY TRAITOR TO THE USA (TM–BushCrimeCo)
“That was like giving a butane lighter to an arsonist.
Comment by Marie — April 29, 2007 @ 3:49 pm”
Excellent post…
I read that the 100,000’s of war protestors in DC were essentially ignored by the media. Any articles of dissent went to the third or fourth pages, and were kept brief. No MSM outlet aired Ted Kennedy’s amazing speech of Skepticism. Accounts from journalists who went with teeh UN inspectors weren’t carried. And anyone who questioned the war was targetted. Look at poor Phil Donahue and Mike Wallace…
April 29th, 2007 at 4:05 pm#58 Comment by valiant venus — April 29, 2007 @ 3:10 pm
“I suppose you refuse to acknowledge the news about the latest sex-scandal corruption in your party, yet again…”
You are refering to Condi’s deputy…Right?
Thanks for bringing that up, sweetie. You are just soooo informed.
Please don’t ever change! We need your head hanging from the gym ceiling to use as a punching bag.
You know the sound…and the feeling…
Blapity, blippity, blap.
April 29th, 2007 at 4:06 pmWhatever devastating mistakes Condi Rice has made, they have to do with her incurious, uninformed, inflexible or ideological approach to her job…
Comment by Freaked-Out Canadian — April 29, 2007 @ 2:51 pm
Of course these things are true of Condi, but my point is that she is deeply emotionally involved with Bush, in a romantic fantasy way. Remember, this is the person who referred to Bush as “my husband” during a press conference, and who spends much of her free time with the Bush family at their private retreats. Her behavior very much that of a girlfriend who blindly defends her drug-dealer thug boyfriend, even to the point of being sent to prison for it. I would hardly deem this behavior irrelevant to Condi’s on the job problems. To the contrary I believe it is instrumental to understanding here behavior.
As for whether this or that Canadian politician is gay or not, I am uninformed.
April 29th, 2007 at 4:08 pmsorry about those typos…
April 29th, 2007 at 4:09 pm#59 - “Valiant, do you really believe that Dems have no “core values?†Come on. There you are folks. A common conservative cannard — over half of the citizens of the U.S. have no core values…..” Comment by Bluedog49
Most old time Dems had a love of our country - granted they got caught up in the socialistic aspects of the labour movement (which in the 20’s and 30’s was understandable due to widespread mistreatment of employees by business.) However, I have NO DOUBT that FDR, Harry Truman and JFK LOVED our country with fervor. Too many contemporary Democrats/Progressives - that is not to say ALL - seem to despise the US, her culture and enduring traditions.
I think the self-loathing group HAVE no core principles. They claim to care about the environment and hypocritically buy carbon offsets and oppose nuclear power. They claim to care about the most defenseless in a society and promote abortion without limits. They claim to love “free-speech” until they are offended by those they disagree with. They love crime victims and make excuses for criminals.
That said, I have VERY nice Dem/Prog friends and colleagues. (I realize I am their “token” conservative friend.) I enjoy having coffee with them at the latest trendy bohemian coffee place of their choice. I wouldn’t trust a ONE of them with our tax code or defense policy - but I broke that part to them gently…….
In conclusion, you are incorrect that I think half the country has not core values….I would estimate Progs and leftwing activist types account for 15 - 17% of the population - so that is closer to the number I would estimate who have NO core values.
April 29th, 2007 at 4:09 pmMarie - I commented on your post, but it seems the spam filter doesn’t like compliments…
Oh well… I should get going anyway.
Nice conversation with those of you who think.
April 29th, 2007 at 4:11 pmThe Republican definition of patriotism: Buying heels at full price.
April 29th, 2007 at 4:14 pm#70 - Grgrrr- I think you’re mistaken - Unbe loves and defends the UN. Go back and read what you are responding to - I make NO defense of the UN - IF anything, that is one EXPENSIVE “bridge to nowhere”.
April 29th, 2007 at 4:17 pmDavid - Thank you for taking you so seriously - I’m no WASP but thank you for jumping to your poorly informed conclusion - you certainly make Progs proud!! You go worship at the altar of the UN….I’ll pass.
Pssst……This site is FUN for me…so please forgive me if I don’t take you as seriously as you would like.
April 29th, 2007 at 4:21 pm#80 Comment by VerbalKint — April 29, 2007 @ 4:08 pm
Your comment that begins and ends:
“Remember, this is the person who referred to Bush as “my husband and goes on till “I would hardly deem this behavior irrelevant to Condi’s on the job problems. To the contrary I believe it is instrumental to understanding her behavior.”
Spot on! Well said.
We must evaluate these people from an emotional point of view. Their every action is based around that. EMOTIONS RULE
Thanks for making that clear.
Pssst… Venus sweetie. That goes for you too. Tee Hee. Look out, we’re watching you!
April 29th, 2007 at 4:21 pmunbelievable at #67
Your map task is wonderful. I wonder how many of them know what happened in Iran in 1953 and who was responsible for ending the experiment in parliamentary democracy there? Or what the USS Vincennes did for Saddam Hussein back when he was Rumsfeld’s buddy and America’s client.
To my mind, this is the kind of context that the press should be providing. If American wants to play such a dominant role in the affairs of other countries, and if, as a democracy, its citizens are going to logically be held to account for the actions of its government, then it is essential that average American voters know world history - including an unjaundiced look at their own role in world affairs.
Otherwise, Americans will be perpetually surprised, like wide-eyed pollyannas, by the protests, the insurgencies, and the terrorist actions.
And they will resort to facile responses like “they hate us for our way of life” or “they are evildoers” or “I don’t have any respect by and large for the Iraqi people at all. I have no respect for them. I think that they’re a prehistoric group.”
“Know your enemy” is not a bad dictum in times of war, and pretty useful in times of peace. I don’t recall having ever heard,”Stay ignorant of your enemy, but call them nasty names.”
Anyway, unbelievable, keep up the good fight with your youngsters. And speaking of young folks, here’s a semi-off-topic link to Peter, Bjorn & John to keep your Sunday musical. Now, I’m off to take in the sunshine.
April 29th, 2007 at 4:22 pmUnbe - along with you self-professed allegiance to “the facts”. do you have allegiance to the UNITED STATES? This isn’t a complicated question.
April 29th, 2007 at 4:23 pmvaliant venus
Actually he wasn’t commenting on that. He was commenting on how short a memory you seem to have, as to just what those inspectors for the UN said.
Of course, what he doesn’t realise is that your lack of a negative reaction to what Ms Rice said (You know, the actual topic of the thread) is due to the fact that you actually like being lied to.
April 29th, 2007 at 4:24 pmBluePUP - I posted a reply to your question about Progs lacking core values: I’ll see if this makes it through the disagreeable uber-filters before I re-count …
April 29th, 2007 at 4:28 pmvaliant venus
If the facts show that the USA is wrong: The USA must change accordingly in order to better benefit from reality, rather then act on fantasies born of wishful thinking.
Otherwise you are advocating acting in a manner which will ultimately be detrimental to the USA as the facts come to light and the consequences of actions taken under false data become clear.
That you have no allegiance to the concept of truth is simply due to the fact that you ultimately have no loyalty to the USA. You only have an allegiance to some alien concept of winning, in a situation where winning is aside from the point.
April 29th, 2007 at 4:36 pm# 85 Comment by valiant venus — April 29, 2007 @ 4:21 pm
“Pssst……This site is FUN for me…so please forgive me if I don’t take you as seriously as you would like.”
Glad to know that sweetie. At least we agree on that. Thats how I feel exactly! Watching your head bang around like that really is fun. Your statements meant to arouse, simply allow us to grieve openly for the tragedy “your side” has perpetrated.
So thanks for helping us to do that!
Heeeey, just who’s side are you on anyway? You could be one of us in anonymity, helping us to grieve! Does the NRC know about this? A double agent. WOW! Now that’s a thought.
Regarding:
“Pssst……This site is FUN”
Thanks for noticing that. How many other sites do you post on, and what names do you use? I’d love to watch you get blappity blapped anywhere I can.
April 29th, 2007 at 4:37 pmUnbe - along with you self-professed allegiance to “the factsâ€. do you have allegiance to the UNITED STATES? This isn’t a complicated question.
Comment by valiant venus
Watch the evangelicals in this ..
video.google.com/videoplay?docid=881321004838285177&q=The+Power+of+Nightmares+Part+1&hl=en
This is one of the reasons the evangelicals fell out of my favor and I turned against them… they always seem to hate America.
The evangelicals hold more allegiance to Israel than America. To their own religious leaders than to the U.S. Constitution.
April 29th, 2007 at 4:49 pmNOWHERE did the UN weapons inspectors say Saddam did not have WMD as you falsely claim here: “In fact, U.N. weapons inspectors declared weeks before the invasion that Hussein did not possess WMD.
April 29th, 2007 at 4:49 pmNOWHERE did the inspectors say Saddam did not have WMD as you falsely claim here: “In fact, U.N. weapons inspectors declared weeks before the invasion that Hussein did not possess WMD. “
April 29th, 2007 at 4:51 pmComment by LibSlayer
The weapons inspectors appeared on TV before the attack on Iraq and clearly said that there was no more evidence of Saddams weapons after their searches than before… and as the neocons like to do over and over… say that LACK of evidence IS evidence that something even more sinister is going on…
video.google.com/videoplay?docid=881321004838285177&q=The+Power+of+Nightmares+Part+1&hl=en
April 29th, 2007 at 4:54 pmComment by Gerald Gibson Jr
Which says NOTHING about whether or not there were WMD. There were over 10,000 sites, they only looked at 125.
You are a blind fool.
April 29th, 2007 at 4:57 pmGod this woman needs to go.
April 29th, 2007 at 4:58 pmComment by Karim
RACIST!!!!
April 29th, 2007 at 4:59 pmBesides, only you need to ’seem’ feminine. I just am. Comes from having been born with two X Chromosomes.
Comment by unbelievable — April 29, 2007 @ 3:59 pm
There’s a reason MA’s MySpace page says she is like Ann Coulter… both fake women? It’s kind of hard to tell by her pictures as she is so emaciated there aren’t any female characteristics left visible.
April 29th, 2007 at 5:05 pmRACIST!!!!
Comment by LibSlayer
Quit hyperventilating.
Are you breathing normally?
Good.
Now, piss off.
April 29th, 2007 at 5:07 pmComment by LibSlayer — April 29, 2007 @ 4:59 pm
Moron with no ability to use logic. There were no WMD…the apologists, like you are fools. Nothing this administration has said has been true. Facts are facts.
April 29th, 2007 at 5:08 pmComment by LibSlayer
Really? And what are you thoughts on God? Faith?
You have ANY evidence? Oh I see… I am supposed to be a crazy neocon and just make up shit or believe other people who make up shit… no thanks.
Wheres Osama? Why did the neocons make secret deals with the dictator of Pakistan? Why did the republicans surrender to the SAUDIS on 9/12 over a cigar?
April 29th, 2007 at 5:08 pmToday on ABC’s “This Week”, Condi said something in passing that caught my attention:
President Bush “was concerned about Iraq from almost his first day in office”.
The Bush team has repeatedly insisted they were not preparing to invade Iraq before 9/11, but Paul O’Neill and Richard Clarke have said otherwise. And with Rice now conceding Iraq was on Bush’s radar “from his first day in office”, to me, it adds further credibility to those earlier accusations.
April 29th, 2007 at 5:09 pmLibSlayer - I really hope you you keep one hand tied behind your back and your blindfold firmly affixed - otherwise, it’s like shooting fish in a barrel (sorry for offending the anti-gun crowd)…but they ARE funny!
April 29th, 2007 at 5:09 pmWell, LibSlayer, this is technically not true. The weapons inspectors said there was no evidence Saddam had weapons of mass destruction. They knew what had existed previously and they knew there was very little evidence that these had been augmented or replaced. They did state that they had found nothing new or dangerous prior to the invasion. And that all leads offered by the US had proven fruitless. And the inspectors were pleased that the Iraqis were cooperating and hoped the UN would keep up the pressure on Saddam so they could finish their inspections without hindrance.
Part of the problem, however, was the presumption of guilt promoted by the Bush administration. It’s more difficult to prove one’s innocence than it is for others to prove one’s guilt. And the inspectors were being badgered by the US and urged to find the “smoking guns”. They did not. Listen to Blix carefully and you’ll hear him diplomatically telling the US that, although Iraq falls short of proving their innocence, there is NO EVIDENCE OF WMD. Blix was in no hurry, but Bush was. The so-called patient president didn’t want Saddam to be found Not Guilty. He had to attack or the game would be up. He talk about ‘weeks not months’ because he knew Saddam had no WMD. It was all a lie.
April 29th, 2007 at 5:10 pmSkeda - Since I don’t have a page on MY Space, you might be confused. But you seem to confuse easily…
April 29th, 2007 at 5:12 pmGerald - You must be be completely pi$$ed that Bill Cllnton did not kill Osama when he had the chance!! Your anger would be justified if you could muster any.)
April 29th, 2007 at 5:14 pmGerald - You must be be completely pi$$ed that Bill Cllnton did not kill Osama when he had the chance!! Your anger would be justified if you could muster any.)
Comment by valiant venus
I was happy he tried. What I was pissed about was the attempted coup by the republicans over a BJ… and the U.S.S. Cole being completely ignored by the republicans of all people… I remember telling my wife when Bush got into office and she said something bad is going to happen to AMerica now… I said, “Well at least you know that the people behind the Cole are about to get theirs.” … which never happened…
April 29th, 2007 at 5:16 pmI don’t understand. Since when were women a race?
And it’s true that the Christian Right are unpatriotic. They don’t defend the Constitution or the Republic for which it stands. They favor the creation of a Greater Israel that will trigger the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. They’re going to Heaven and California can burn for all they care.
And the Olmert and his cabinet don’t mind at all. They don’t buy the Second Coming nonsense, but they do have a Messianic complex that calls for a restoration of Israel to its historic glory.
It’s insane that we have people using the Holy Bible as their foreign policy briefing book. It may well really end in the Apocalypse.
April 29th, 2007 at 5:17 pmComment by kasinca
Yes there were WMD, we have found it, we found WMD labs and we had Iraqi scientists testify that they were making it right up to the invasion.
April 29th, 2007 at 5:22 pmGerald Gibson Jr
I am atheist.
As for my evidence, read Kay’s testimony to Congress and Deulfer’s report.
April 29th, 2007 at 5:23 pmGerald - You must be be completely pi$$ed that Bill Cllnton did not kill Osama when he had the chance!! Your anger would be justified if you could muster any.)
Comment by valiant venus —
Remember “wag the dog?” Republicans at the time objected to any military undertaking by Clinton.
Pathetic try, cranky.
April 29th, 2007 at 5:25 pmComment by david
“The weapons inspectors said there was no evidence Saddam had weapons of mass destruction”
What they said is that they FOUIND no evidence. Take a class in logic. Just because something isn’t found does not PROVE that it doesn’t exist.
April 29th, 2007 at 5:25 pmYes there were WMD, we have found it, we found WMD labs and we had Iraqi scientists testify that they were making it right up to the invasion.
Comment by LibSlayer
What, no links? Predictable.
April 29th, 2007 at 5:26 pmComment by Mugsy
“The Bush team has repeatedly insisted they were not preparing to invade Iraq before 9/11, but Paul O’Neill and Richard Clarke have said otherwise.”
That is a LIE, they said Bush was working on REGIME CHANGE which was the stated policy of the US since clinton signed it in 1998.
April 29th, 2007 at 5:27 pmComment by Gerald Gibson Jr
“I was happy he tried” He DIDN’T try, clinton had OBL in his SIGHTS, not once but TWICE and refused to pull the trigger.
April 29th, 2007 at 5:29 pmComment by barfly
Remember “wag the dog?†Republicans at the time objected to any military undertaking by Clinton.
You mean when clinton spent MILLIONS to blow up some empty tents?
April 29th, 2007 at 5:30 pmHe DIDN’T try, clinton had OBL in his SIGHTS, not once but TWICE and refused to pull the trigger.
Comment by LibSlayer
And Reagan sold weapons to the same terrorists who held americans hostage. What has your comment have to do with the thread?
April 29th, 2007 at 5:32 pmLibSlayer - Re 114 - WTF???? What logic class did you take - is our kids learning??
Maybe you should review some facts, then apply your logic . . .
See/read CNN’s Miles O’Brians interview with weapons inspector Scott Ritter http://www.cnn.com/ 2002/ WORLD/ meast/ 09/ 08/ ritter.cnna/ index.html - or review your own Mr Powells comments on his UN BS.
Condi is a lier AND incompetant . . . a perfect match for this Republican Cabal.
April 29th, 200