FLASHBACK: In 1999, Bush Demanded A Timetable
President Bush will soon ignore the will of the American people and veto a bill that would set a timeline for ending U.S. involvement in Iraq’s civil war.
For the last several weeks, Bush and members of his administration have attacked proponents of a timeline, saying they were undermining U.S. generals and legislating defeat:
I believe artificial timetables of withdrawal would be a mistake. … I will strongly reject an artificial timetable withdrawal and/or Washington politicians trying to tell those who wear the uniform how to do their job. [President Bush, 4/23/07]
“The…attempt to micromanage our commanders is an unwise and perilous endeavor. It is impossible to argue that an unconditional timetable for retreat could serve the security interests of the United States or our friends in the region.” [Vice President Cheney, 4/13/07]
“He’s also in denial that a surrender date he thinks is a good idea. It is not a good idea. It is defeat. It is a death sentence for the millions of Iraqis who voted for a constitution, who voted for a government, who voted for a free and democratic society.” [Dana Perino, 4/23/07]
Flashback to 1999, when George W. Bush was governor of Texas. Then, Bush criticized President Clinton for not setting a timetable for exiting Kosovo.
George W. Bush, 4/9/99, Houston Chronicle:
“Victory means exit strategy, and it’s important for the president to explain to us what the exit strategy is.”
And on the specific need for a timetable:
George W. Bush, 6/5/99, Scripps Howard/Seattle Post-Intelligencer:
“I think it’s also important for the president to lay out a timetable as to how long they will be involved and when they will be withdrawn.”
Despite his past statements, Bush now refuses to apply the same standard to his war and smears those who want a similar timetable for Iraq.
UPDATE: We’ve placed the full text of the 1999 articles online HERE.
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Does this actually surprise anyone? When out of power, politicians are always demanding something “good” - but once they get in power, they use what is given to them to often times do just the opposite of what they say.
Bush is a perfect example of this - but politicians on both sides of the aisle do it quite well…
A good read on this: “Promises, Promises”
http://www.populistamerica.com/promises__promises
May 1st, 2007 at 12:11 pmIt’s easier to throw darts than to be the target of the darts.
May 1st, 2007 at 12:15 pmEvery heard of changing your mind? You know. Presidents are allowed to do that too.
May 1st, 2007 at 12:15 pmOf course nothing this lying hypocrite says means a d*mn thing. He is a sociopathic liar, and probably a psychopath too.
May 1st, 2007 at 12:16 pmWhy has it taken you so long to figure out this little tidbit and find that quote? I mean, the President has stated since the day timetable was first mentioned — say 2 or 3 years ago to be nice — that he opposes them.
May 1st, 2007 at 12:18 pmQ: Why does President Bush change his mind?
A: To remind himself that he has one.
May 1st, 2007 at 12:19 pmI can only assume you were all against Clinton when he wasn’t providing an exist strategy………
May 1st, 2007 at 12:20 pmI strongly supported President Clinton’s efforts to stop the slaughter in Kosovo in the 1990s and was dismayed by the opposition of many Republicans to that effort. I thought their opposition was wrong then and now we see that that opposition is coming back to bite them.
May 1st, 2007 at 12:22 pmEvery heard of changing your mind? You know. Presidents are allowed to do that too.
Comment by MAF54
Especially when there’s a partisan political goal to be had. Bush almost got whiplash from changing course so suddenly.
May 1st, 2007 at 12:23 pmBush is a certified moronic hypocrite who needs to be institutionalized.
May 1st, 2007 at 12:23 pmActually, Clinton did much better with providing humanity with an exist strategy.
May 1st, 2007 at 12:24 pmBush is hell bent for leather on providing an extinction stategy.
Why should this be surprising? Look back a few posts to the one about how Bush can’t see past his own short-term political gain.
May 1st, 2007 at 12:24 pm#7 - No. The Kosovo mission was working.
May 1st, 2007 at 12:25 pmRoger_Roger,
Wow what an original question. Get a new line of reasoning that one is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo old.
May 1st, 2007 at 12:25 pm911 Truth Ends War
May 1st, 2007 at 12:25 pmI strongly supported President Clinton’s efforts to stop the slaughter in Kosovo in the 1990s and was dismayed by the opposition of many Republicans to that effort. I thought their opposition was wrong then and now we see that that opposition is coming back to bite them.
Comment by Exley
How even handed you sound! Too bad you can’t post anything to back up this assertion. Then it might be convincing.
May 1st, 2007 at 12:26 pmEver heard of flip-flopping? You know, Democratic presidential candidates aren’t allowed to do that.
May 1st, 2007 at 12:27 pmBush cultist: “Every heard of changing your mind? You know. Presidents are allowed to do that too.”
Right. I think I’ve heard of it somewhere. Oh, I know. It was during the last presidential election. You guys had a different term for it at that time. You called it “flip-flopping.”
May 1st, 2007 at 12:27 pmRoger-Roger
May 1st, 2007 at 12:28 pmWhat difference does it make in the world what anyone else thought about Clinton at that time.
The point is that this president, who can make a difference in the world, is so duplicitous, and cannot be trusted.
This is called flip flopping. It’s lack of vision. No real plan. No foresite.
Kerry got slapped down for changing his view on spending for this clusterfu@k but the forever forgiving bushmen here won’t call it what it is.
This isn’t about Clinton, it’s about Bush who said one thing and reversed. All the Clinton Bashers of the time had the same view. Now they have the opposite because it’s them in the crosshairs.
No principle. No real argument.
Flip and flop, repeat.
May 1st, 2007 at 12:28 pmIt’s not about victory or defeat. And it’s not for the benefit of Iraq or its neighbors as it’s obvious that US presence only escalates violence. If the US want to continue stealing oil and milking the Iraqi government they cannot withdraw. I assume that anyone who is against a timetable is only voicing that they are happy trading 100 US lives per month to fatten already fat corporations.
May 1st, 2007 at 12:30 pmRoger,
CLINTON ISN’T IN OFFICE!! LET IT GO!!!
May 1st, 2007 at 12:30 pmThis is why having a bad memory comes in so handy.
Maybe if they named Bill Clinton the “war czar,” old habits would kick in and they would start badgering him for an exit strategy. The main difference being that Clinton is apt to produce one.
May 1st, 2007 at 12:31 pmI don’t recall…
May 1st, 2007 at 12:31 pmHypocrisy fro a republican. Color me shocked.
May 1st, 2007 at 12:33 pmThink Progress continues to compare apples to watermellons. These are two very different scenarios with two very different effects from withdrawal.
May 1st, 2007 at 12:33 pm“I can only assume you were all against Clinton when he wasn’t providing an exist strategy………
Comment by Roger_Roger — May 1, 2007″
Because we ALL remember how there were 100’s of US troops dying each month in former Yugoslavia. We remember the terrorist bombings of US, the hundreds of amputees, the billions of dollars of US military equipment getting ground into the dust…The regional instability caused by the Kosovo conflict……and the scores and scores of US troop deaths.
Clinton ran a successful war, Bush has failed twice.
-GSD
May 1st, 2007 at 12:33 pmRoger,
CLINTON ISN’T IN OFFICE!! LET IT GO!!!
Comment by Crump’s Brother
But this story is about when Clinton was in office. To not relate him to the situation is wrong.
May 1st, 2007 at 12:34 pmI seem to recall some major event that affected the United States since 1999…what was it.?…emmmm…..
May 1st, 2007 at 12:34 pmThere’s an easy way to tell if this is a true change of mind, a different situation, or a flip-flop. Ask Bush to explain the two positions. I’m sure with his articulatory and logisticating skills he can muddy the clear waters for us all.
May 1st, 2007 at 12:34 pmA great, truthful one liner submitted by Raven..”Bush is hell bent for leather on providing an extinction strategy.” …Me think’s this has been the sole purpose since cheney/ rove/ bush/ rice/ wolfawits/ pearl and all of this evil group ploted to steal the election’s and go after the worlds wealth long before they were self imposed…..Blessings
May 1st, 2007 at 12:36 pmBut this story is about when Clinton was in office and Bush did not agree with anything Clinton did or said, just like when Bush was “elected” and undid Clinton’s policies in many areas, including attention to terrorism. To not relate Bush’s contempt of Clinton is wrong.
There, now it’s fixed.
May 1st, 2007 at 12:38 pmRoger cubed is curled up in a corner.
May 1st, 2007 at 12:38 pmIt’s rough when your first post of the day contains a typo which completely changes the whole meaning of what he was trying to say……….
The Republican trolls here must be afraid of Clinton’s gleaming legacy. Considering they’ve had to set of a dedicated group of full-time staff to try to polish Reagan’s dismal legacy and Bush continually tries to establish a legacy for himself other than one of outright failure, the Republicans must hate to look at Clinton’s legacy of prosperity, economic growth, record budget surpluses, and lower rates of poverty and just quiver with fear and hate.
May 1st, 2007 at 12:39 pmYou see, Kosovo has 3 syllables while Iraq has 2
so they’re totally different, you see
May 1st, 2007 at 12:39 pmI can only assume you were all against Clinton when he wasn’t providing an exist [sic] strategy………
Comment by Roger_Roger — May 1, 2007 @ 12:20 pm
Great Freudian slip there. An “exist” strategy would be nice since hundreds of thousands of people have died because of Bush and his policies. At least your subconscious knows the truth, Roger.
May 1st, 2007 at 12:40 pmBut this story is about when Clinton was in office. To not relate him to the situation is wrong. Comment by liberalism=mental disorder — May 1, 2007 @ 12:34 pm
Which situation is that? The one where it shows what hypocrites and fools you Conservatives are? Your post shows that sufficiently as well dum bass! HEHEHE
May 1st, 2007 at 12:40 pmBush cultist: “Think Progress continues to compare apples to watermellons.”
Yes, I see your point. Comparing the 42nd president to the 43rd president doesn’t work for you. You compare Iraq to WWII, but you can’t possibly compare it to Kosovo.
See, this is why you guys get no respect around here. You make absolutely no sense.
May 1st, 2007 at 12:40 pm“I seem to recall some major event that affected the United States since 1999…what was it.?…emmmm…..
Comment by Patrick1″
i’m highly disappointed that it took you until #29 to put up the most predictable post evah.
May 1st, 2007 at 12:40 pmI can only assume you were all against Clinton when he wasn’t providing an exist strategy……… Comment by Roger_Roger — May 1, 2007 @ 12:20 pm
We can only assume you agreed with Bush then, but not when he’s the one that has to live up to his own words? Hypocrite!
May 1st, 2007 at 12:41 pm“The left hand
(gestures with the right)
doesn’t know what the right hand
(gestures with the left)
is doing.”
George W. Bush
May 1st, 2007 at 12:41 pmPUERTO PIRITU, Venezuela (Reuters) — President Hugo Chavez’s government took over Venezuela’s last remaining privately run oil fields Tuesday, intensifying a decisive struggle with Big Oil over one of the world’s most lucrative deposits.
Oil Minister Rafael Ramirez declared that the oil fields had reverted to state control just after midnight. Television footage showed workers in hard hats raising the flags of Venezuela and the national oil company at a refinery and four drilling fields in the oil-rich Orinoco River basin. Chavez planned a more elaborate celebration Tuesday afternoon with red-clad oil workers, soldiers and a fly over by Russian-made fighter jets.
READ HERE:
http://money.cnn.com/ 2007/ 05/ 01/ news/ international/ bc.venezuela.nationalization.reut/ index.htm?cnn=yes
May 1st, 2007 at 12:42 pmMurtha revises: Impeachment is ‘on the table’
Now if he can get Pelosi to stop her crap and go along with that….
=P
May 1st, 2007 at 12:42 pmI seem to recall some major event that affected the United States since 1999…what was it.?…emmmm….. Comment by Patrick1 — May 1, 2007 @ 12:34 pm
It was Bush using the Supreme Court to STEAL an election, and then proceeding to ALLOW a terrorist attack on our soil, as well as him f*cking up the economy, and everything he touched!
What HAPPENED SON, was that Bush failed - yet again. Just like YOUR POSTS - Jake*ss!
May 1st, 2007 at 12:43 pmReid: Bush Must Halt Slaying of Terrorist Leaders
by Scott Ott
(2007-05-01) — As unconfirmed news broke that the chief of al-Qaeda in Iraq may have been killed in a battle with a rival terror group, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid called on President George Bush to step in and halt the slaying of terror leaders.
“It’s a known fact that every time a terror leader is killed, another rises to take his place,†said Sen. Reid. “Therefore, the only way to stop the spawning of new terror leaders is to halt the slaying of the current ones.â€
The Nevada Democrat said Mr. Bush should petition the United Nations to send in an unarmed peacekeeping force to protect the known terror leaders from accidental or intentional execution by Iraqi and U.S. forces, as well as by their own colleagues in the terror industry.
“If these guys keep getting knocked off,†Sen. Reid said, “how will we ever build relationships that lead to negotiations and peace treaties? The longer a terror leader stays at the helm, the more we can get to know him. When Democrats talk about bringing stability to the region, this is what we mean.â€
May 1st, 2007 at 12:44 pmBTW, I heard about this little tid bit several week’s ago…Bush telling Clinton to submit a time line etc: and I wrote my representatives, Palosi and Reid as well demanding they make bush accountable and his past demand’s, just incase they had forgotten….Have you all written your rep’s to remind them of bush word’s then and now.? Please do so, nothing will get done unless we continue to let them know (we are watching)….Blessings
May 1st, 2007 at 12:45 pmThis is a good post. After you you get done cherishing Bush’s contradiction, ask yourself why Clinton (the left’s Einstein of foreign policy) resisted a timetable? Maybe it is not a good idea to broadcast that you are leaving on a certain date regardless of what the conditions may be. If Clinton were consistent he would be one of the lead spokesmen for a ’stay the course’ strategy.
May 1st, 2007 at 12:45 pmI agree Murtha should be impeached.
May 1st, 2007 at 12:46 pmHey mental,
Nice try but not buying it. You are Clinton obsessed… we understand.
However the stupid f*ck running this country, government, economy, and military into the ground is an unprecedented failure, with the possible exception of Richard “the crook” Nixon, evil paranoid prick he was.
There is no comparrison, period.
May 1st, 2007 at 12:46 pmMove on, we’re not buying.
Which situation is that? The one where it shows what hypocrites and fools you Conservatives are? Your post shows that sufficiently as well dum bass! HEHEHE
Comment by ValiantVenusGrewFromUranus
Congratulations on making no sense at all.
May 1st, 2007 at 12:47 pmYes, I see your point. Comparing the 42nd president to the 43rd president doesn’t work for you. You compare Iraq to WWII, but you can’t possibly compare it to Kosovo.
See, this is why you guys get no respect around here. You make absolutely no sense.
Comment by Bluedog49
Don’t remember comparing Iraq to WWII, can you show where I did that?
May 1st, 2007 at 12:47 pmIt’s amazing the Trolls here continually bring up 9/11 to defend some position or other. When your fearful leader out-rightly failed to stop the worst terrorist attack ever to occur on United States soil, despite receiving warnings, you’d think you would want to stop embarrassing yourselves. Of course, Bush’s quick reaction — continuing to read a children’s book for several minutes after being told “The country is under attack” shows what a true “leader” we have in George “I think I pissed myself” Bush.
May 1st, 2007 at 12:50 pmHey mental,
Nice try but not buying it. You are Clinton obsessed… we understand.
However the stupid f*ck running this country, government, economy, and military into the ground is an unprecedented failure, with the possible exception of Richard “the crook†Nixon, evil paranoid prick he was.
There is no comparrison, period.
Move on, we’re not buying.
Comment by Republic666ans are evil
I didn’t bring up Clinton. The article at the top did since it was Clinton that was president in 1999. Please try and follow here, maybe I should go slower for you.
May 1st, 2007 at 12:50 pmLooks like the only consistant one is McCain heh, who would have thought.
May 1st, 2007 at 12:50 pmYou can’t expect a drunken frat boy to remember what he said eight years ago. Afterall, he has more important things to occupy himself with like riding his bike, weekends at Camp David and entertaining his “wife” Condi.
May 1st, 2007 at 12:50 pmClinton ran a successful war, Bush has failed twice.
-GSD
Comment by GSD — May 1, 2007 @ 12:33 pm
Sorry. There are no succesful wars, there are no humanitarian wars (as Kosovo was sold), there are no just wars (as WWII is sold). If one measures the degree of success of an armed conflict according to the number of your forces that return alive to your country, then those bombers that blew up Hiroshima and Nagasaki, killing thousands of civilians must have been the most succesful operation in history. It just depends on which side you are. In a war, nobody wins. There are no sides.
May 1st, 2007 at 12:51 pmI wish this country would remember what happened since 1999. Too easily we forget and allow us to be led by less than honorable men and women.
Bush isn’t a man of prinicple, he’s an opportunist and a puppet. 9/11 has nothing to do with having over 100,000 hired guns in Iraq. We are paying these private contractors many times more than what we would a soldier. But these mercs don’t have to follow the same standards. That’s what our govt. has decided to do. We would have over 300,000 troops in Iraq if it weren’t for the 21st century hussiens (?).
All who are supporting Bush are supporting the use of hired guns instead of a shared sacrifice and a legit military. Didn’t we win a war against hired guns?
May 1st, 2007 at 12:51 pmLooks like the only consistant one is McCain heh, who would have thought.
Comment by Tundra
Are you calling McCain consistant?
hahahahahaha
funny….
May 1st, 2007 at 12:53 pmYou can’t expect a spoiled frat boy to remember what he said eight years ago. Remember, Prezidenting is hard work–just as Brownie. Besides, The Decider has more important things to think about like riding his bike, his ongoing Guiness record as the laziest president in history and entertaining his “wife” Condi.
May 1st, 2007 at 12:54 pm#52: That’s just one ridiculous talking point that just doesn’t seem to go away. Just what should President Bush have done when he heard of the incident? Jump up, wave his hands in panic and scream at the kids? No. He acted like a real President: calm and collected.
May 1st, 2007 at 12:54 pmBoy, W has aged a little since ‘99.
Heat getting to you, W?
Well, Mission Accomplished!
Your two word culture club was impressed with that carefully crafted crap.
How about you meet in the middle with the Dems, admit you f#cked the whole thing up, establish firm timetables & benchmarks & save your soiled legacy?
No?
OK. Bring in the Impeachment towel, boys, it’s time to throw it in.
May 1st, 2007 at 12:55 pmPresidents can change their mind. Which is why I hope someone in the press asks him or Tony Snow about this so we can hear his reasons. I’m sure they’ll be fantastic.
May 1st, 2007 at 12:56 pmThe only thing consistent about McCain is his constant flip-flopping.
May 1st, 2007 at 12:56 pmAs for Bush on 9/11: he should have gotten up and excused himself. It’s really quite simple. He could have told them he had to go potty. Instead of, you know, just sitting there and doing it anyways.
May 1st, 2007 at 12:57 pmIt must be lunch hour at gestapo headquarters. The true believers are out in force, or just changing their names a lot.
May 1st, 2007 at 12:57 pmSorry. There are no succesful wars, there are no humanitarian wars (as Kosovo was sold), there are no just wars (as WWII is sold). If one measures the degree of success of an armed conflict according to the number of your forces that return alive to your country, then those bombers that blew up Hiroshima and Nagasaki, killing thousands of civilians must have been the most succesful operation in history. It just depends on which side you are. In a war, nobody wins. There are no sides.
Comment by Juan C
I would expect a post like this from you. Since in your mind then WWII was not just, we should have allowed Hitler to do whatever he wanted, killing thousands and thousands of jews until he grew to rule the world? Do you think your life would be better now if you were ruled under the Nazi regime? Or maybe you would have been turned into a lamp shade by now.
May 1st, 2007 at 12:57 pmDouble-talking neonazi! Everything this guy says is a lie! It’s time for the State Governments to take the “governance” of their people into their own hands which is precisely what the Founding Fathers suggested “if/when the federal government fails the people”. NY State did so with their impeachment proceedings yesterday; other states need to follow suit. As well, it’s time to take the law-breaking illegal alien situation into hand by the individual states. The Federal Government continues to fail the american people in every department, every aspect of the law, and it’s “time”for the people to take back control via each State Government.
May 1st, 2007 at 12:57 pmLooks like the only consistant one is McCain heh, who would have thought.
Comment by Tundra — May 1, 2007 @ 12:50 pm
Troll comments are becoming increasingly bizarre and unhinged from reality.
May 1st, 2007 at 12:57 pm#52: That’s just one ridiculous talking point that just doesn’t seem to go away. Just what should President Bush have done when he heard of the incident? Jump up, wave his hands in panic and scream at the kids? No. He acted like a real President: calm and collected.
Comment by MAF54
I believe when he was told of the incident it was that a plane crashed into the world trade center. He was not told that we were under attack, but a horrible accident had just happened.
May 1st, 2007 at 12:58 pmIf the “enabling congress” fails to recognize the critical mandate of the mass consciousness of the people by dragging their feet or giving in to this Dictator, then it’s time for the people to regain control of their individual states and stand up to both Congress and the Federal government.
May 1st, 2007 at 12:58 pmComment by MAF54
Please explain why using the AIM moniker of a pedophile ex-congressman should endear use to believe one f*cking thing you post?
Obviously a pedophile is your hero, since you use his name, pervert.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:00 pmBush has defined a withdrawal strategy. When the peace is won.
It’s as simple as that.
Not sure why you surrender monkeys are on his back so much. If you want a withdrawal date, why not tonight? What’s the difference between tonight and 6 months from now or 5 years from now? If you plan on surrendering, why not just get on with it?
May 1st, 2007 at 1:00 pmMAF54,
In a world that the extremist Republic666ans have characterized as extremely dangerous with everyone wanting to launch nukes at us, time is of the essence. He had no way of knowing what the threat was, so continue with story time with the kids, I don’t think so. He was frozen pissing his pants.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:00 pmDo you think your life would be better now if you were ruled under the Nazi regime?
What makes you think that the Nazis would still be in power right now?
May 1st, 2007 at 1:01 pm“I would expect a post like this from you.”
Comment by liberalism=mental disorder — May 1, 2007 @ 12:57 pm
Juan, I think she has a crush on you. She’s already talking to you as if you’re married.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:01 pmSince in your mind then WWII was not just, we should have allowed Hitler to do whatever he wanted, killing thousands and thousands of jews until he grew to rule the world?
Read Howard Zinn. He was bombing German cities and thought he was doing a good thing.
Hitler ruling the world??? You are delusional. For real.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:01 pmAs I said, WWII has been sold at you bought the whole kit.
He acted like a real President: calm and collected.
Comment by SMF54 — May 1, 2007 @ 12:54 pm
Huh. sitting dumbfounded, with the deer in the headlights look, for over 7 minutes, is now “calm and collected”?
Whodathunk?
Oh, and strumming a guitar in Arizona while thousands drowned in New Orleans. Yeah, that’s our calm, collected, and concerned President.
Now, how do I get involved in an exist strategy?
May 1st, 2007 at 1:01 pmIs that similar to existentialism?
Why am I here? and for how long?
oh my God. BUsh is talking right now, said he’s going to sign the bill, and let everyone leave GITMO!!!
oh, wait, no he’s not.
*sigh*
It’s like a Repuplican talking point rehash. You know, the SAME one he’s given for 3 years now…
May 1st, 2007 at 1:01 pmUMMM….. Breaking…..
May 1st, 2007 at 1:01 pmIraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki has created an office within the Iraqi government that U.S. and Iraqi military officials say is being used as a smokescreen to carry out an extreme Shiite agenda that is worsening the country’s sectarian divide. “It’s people with no power who want to have power,” a senior Iraqi army officer told CNN.
Damn, he’s aged 20 years in the last 8.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:02 pmMental,
You said “I believe…”
May 1st, 2007 at 1:02 pmdon’t really care what you believe.
She’s already talking to you as if you’re married.
Comment by Republicans are the Fear and Smear Party
Ha hahahaha. Im laughing so hard… havent realized that.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:04 pmFor an administration that claims to place so value on “accountability,” the Bush White House once again exempted itself and its allies. On Monday, Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice announced that President Bush would reject any Iraq funding bill that included benchmarks for the Al Maliki in government in Baghdad. As it turns out, that free pass for Al Maliki not only flies in the face the President’s own words from January, but contradicts the “accountability” talking point comically present in virtually all of Bush’s other rhetoric.
For the details, see:
May 1st, 2007 at 1:04 pm“Benchmark and Bush’s Double-Standard on Accountability in Iraq.”
What’s the difference between tonight and 6 months from now or 5 years from now?
Billions and billions and billions of dollars given to war profiteering Republic666ans, and death for American soldiers.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:04 pmWhat makes you think that the Nazis would still be in power right now?
Comment by bob’s your uncle
Well if he followed his there is no just war then nobody would stop them.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:07 pmOver $340 billion has been spent so far on a war that nobody wants. The situation in Iraq is still far from stable and it doesn’t appear as though this will change anytime soon. So wouldn’t the logical solution be to either change our strategy, drastically, or get out? Not only will this satisfy the majority of the world, it will free up the United States to spend money on other issues, instead of just throwing it at an impossible cause. In 2000 we agreed to the Millennium Goals which outline a plan to end poverty. According to the Borgen project only $19 billion annually is needed to eliminate world hunger. Think of everything we could accomplish if we were free to use our resources on something other than war.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:10 pmRead Howard Zinn. He was bombing German cities and thought he was doing a good thing.
Hitler ruling the world??? You are delusional. For real.
As I said, WWII has been sold at you bought the whole kit.
Comment by Juan C
Pretty simple really. You beleive there is no just war. Since Hitler had no problem killing people and if we didn’t stand up to him he would rule. That’s the problem with pacifists, they can’t understand that there are bad people that want to kill them.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:10 pmMental,
You said “I believe…â€
don’t really care what you believe.
Comment by Republic666ans are evil
Do you know what was said to him? Do you actually think that they knew right away we were under attack, even before the second plane crashed?
May 1st, 2007 at 1:11 pm“What makes you think that the Nazis would still be in power right now?”
They are. They have the presidency.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:12 pmJordan,
You are assuming there is a strategy at all, there isn’t.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:13 pmIt’s already been documented that Chief of Staff Andrew Card told Bush that “America is under attack” on 9/11/01. Sheesh, are you just coming out of a coma?
May 1st, 2007 at 1:14 pmMental,
Dubya has no problem killing people either.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:14 pm#31. Sharon.
thanks, I was jabbing at Roger2’s typo (?) regarding the Clinton “exist” strategy.:)
I firmly believe that the corporatist sponsors of the neo-con Bushco regime have staked their survival (and to hell with anyone elses, especially impoverished non-white cultures) on technology, an eventual artificially created environment, and the plundering of the Earth’s resources in a race to achieve the necessary infrastructure for the provisioning of their enclaves.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:15 pmSince in your mind then WWII was not just, we should have allowed Hitler to do whatever he wanted, killing thousands and thousands of jews until he grew to rule the world?
Most Americans were cool with that. It was the Japanese bombing Pearl Harbor that changed all that.
2/3 of all Americans have at least some German ancestry, and many (especially in Texas) still spoke German as their first language back then.
Once again, conservatives don’t know a fucking thing about America.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:15 pm.
Well if he followed his there is no just war then nobody would stop them.
Comment by liberalism=mental disorder — May 1, 2007 @ 1:07 pm
That’s assuming that everyone in the world subscribed to that belief. Is that the case?
May 1st, 2007 at 1:15 pmThey are. They have the presidency.
Comment by Republic666ans are evil
That just shows how out of touch libs are. Comparing the president to Hitler does a huge dis-service to everybody involved in the Holocaust.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:16 pmWell if he followed his there is no just war then nobody would stop them.
Comment by liberalism=mental disorder
You think that Hitler made war against Europe just to kill jews, right? Behing every war there is an economic motive, religion and racism is just the trigger to get the supoport from the ignorant masses, just like the Arian myth that Hitler sold to the German people. Hitler made war to Europe because Volkswagen and other big German corporations wanted to expand their markets…by invading countries. Japan and China are flooding their products without invading any country, a more efficient way than what Hitler thought.
Hitler minions, soldiers, the German population REALLY thought that doing an ethnic cleansing was a good thing, a Christian duty against greedy evil non-Christian jews. Just like the US is selling the war to its population saying that Islam wants to take over the world, therefore it is ok to wipe them off. Same thing, different governments. This is mankind. Arent you proud?
May 1st, 2007 at 1:16 pm“Do you actually think that they knew right away we were under attack, even before the second plane crashed?”
p.d.b.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:17 pmThat’s the problem with pacifists, they can’t understand that there are bad people that want to kill them.
And the problem with warmongers is that to them, everything is a battle.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:17 pmThat’s the problem with pacifists, they can’t understand that there are bad people that want to kill them.
Comment by liberalism=mental disorder
Thats the problem with you, war mongers. You think, we pacifists cant kick ass. Remember the left has endured pretty heavy sh*t. Dont f*ck with us.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:18 pmThat’s assuming that everyone in the world subscribed to that belief. Is that the case?
Comment by bob’s your uncle
Doesn’t matter, if they didn’t he killed them.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:18 pmThat just shows how out of touch libs are.
Yes. We’re “out of touch” with the voters who drove your kind into the sea, you loser.
Comparing the president to Hitler does a huge dis-service to everybody involved in the Holocaust.
Comment by liberalism=mental disorder
Yes, I’m sure that members of the SS would hate being compared to Bush’s Keystone Cops administration.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:18 pm.
Republican philosophy:
“Consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.”
“Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself.”
‘We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality – judiciously, as you will – we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.’” - Bush senior adviser.
They don’t care about being true to their word.
The say whatever is expedient.
They care about now - and keeping you off-balance.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:19 pmMental,
Dubya does a diservice by creating a new holocaust, a muslim holocaust.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:19 pmChief of Staff Andrew Card came over and whispered in Bush’s ear, “A second plane hit the second tower. America is under attack.”
http://www.thememoryhole.org/911/bush-911.htm
May 1st, 2007 at 1:20 pmThat’s the problem with pacifists, they can’t understand that there are bad people that want to kill them.
That’s the problem with Republicans. They think that everyone who wasn’t stupid enough to fall for their phony little case for war with Iraq is a “pacifist.”
But you can keep arguing with your strawman, since that’s all a conservative is up for.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:20 pm.
You think that Hitler made war against Europe just to kill jews, right? Behing every war there is an economic motive, religion and racism is just the trigger to get the supoport from the ignorant masses, just like the Arian myth that Hitler sold to the German people. Hitler made war to Europe because Volkswagen and other big German corporations wanted to expand their markets…by invading countries. Japan and China are flooding their products without invading any country, a more efficient way than what Hitler thought.
Hitler minions, soldiers, the German population REALLY thought that doing an ethnic cleansing was a good thing, a Christian duty against greedy evil non-Christian jews. Just like the US is selling the war to its population saying that Islam wants to take over the world, therefore it is ok to wipe them off. Same thing, different governments. This is mankind. Arent you proud?
Comment by Juan C
I dont’t dispute that, but if we didn’t stand up to him that would have continued and continued. It was just for us to take him out and wage war against Nazi Germany and Japan.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:20 pmThats the problem with you, war mongers. You think, we pacifists cant kick ass. Remember the left has endured pretty heavy sh*t. Dont f*ck with us.
Comment by Juan C
But no war is just so you wouldn’t be a real pacifist if you did anyting about it. Hypocrisy anybody?
May 1st, 2007 at 1:21 pmThat’s the problem with Republicans. They think that everyone who wasn’t stupid enough to fall for their phony little case for war with Iraq is a “pacifist.â€
But you can keep arguing with your strawman, since that’s all a conservative is up for.
.
Comment by Grand Moff Texan
Juan said that “There are no succesful wars, there are no humanitarian wars (as Kosovo was sold), there are no just wars (as WWII is sold).” I was referring to him only on this.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:22 pmMental,
Dubya does a diservice by creating a new holocaust, a muslim holocaust.
Comment by Republic666ans are evil
When you say things like that, it does nothing more than make you look like a loon.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:23 pmIt’s already been documented that Chief of Staff Andrew Card told Bush that “America is under attack†on 9/11/01. Sheesh, are you just coming out of a coma?
Comment by Republicans are the Fear and Smear Party
If you give me a reputable link I will admit I was wrong.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:24 pmBut no war is just so you wouldn’t be a real pacifist if you did anyting about it. Hypocrisy anybody? Comment by liberalism=mental disorder — May 1, 2007 @ 1:21 pm
What, you think using *words* is the same thing as murdering people? And you think OTHERS have a mental disorder? BAHAHAHA, pure projection CHILD!
May 1st, 2007 at 1:24 pmDoesn’t matter, if they didn’t he killed them.
So are you saying that Hitler killed everyone in the world who didn’t agree with him?
May 1st, 2007 at 1:24 pmYes. We’re “out of touch†with the voters who drove your kind into the sea, you loser.
Comment by Grand Moff Texan
You won a single mid-term election don’t start dancing in the streets just yet.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:25 pmI dont’t dispute that, but if we didn’t stand up to him that would have continued and continued. It was just for us to take him out and wage war against Nazi Germany and Japan. Comment by liberalism=mental disorder — May 1, 2007 @ 1:20 pm
Actually they waged war against us, we merely defended ourselves - the opposite of Iraq. Where we waged war, and they defended themselves.
Imagine that? You really should up your meds, child, you’re not just a lunatic, you’re a st*pid lunatic!
May 1st, 2007 at 1:25 pmit’s not just Bush… a lot of Republicants who pushed Clinton for timetables are the same ones who are questioning the patriotism and mettle of Iraq war critics… they need to be reminded directly… like by calls and letters to their office…
May 1st, 2007 at 1:26 pmComparing the president to Hitler does a huge dis-service to everybody involved in the Holocaust.
Comment by liberalism=mental disorder
Yes, I’m sure that members of the SS would hate being compared to Bush’s Keystone Cops administration.
. Comment by Grand Moff Texan — May 1, 2007 @ 1:18 pm
Yeah, no kidding, it’s actually an insult to Hitler! At least his government was *competent*! George and his men, are like the r*t*rded inbred cousins that they left home, taking over!
May 1st, 2007 at 1:26 pmliberalism=mental disorder @ 12:47 pm: “Don’t remember comparing Iraq to WWII, can you show where I did that?”
liberalism=mental disorder @ 12:57 pm: “Since in your mind then WWII was not just, we should have allowed Hitler to do whatever he wanted…”
Dude, just take your meds. You’re the best argument against yourself today.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:27 pmIf you give me a reputable link I will admit I was wrong.
And what constitutes a “reputable” link for you?
May 1st, 2007 at 1:27 pmThank you VVGFU. Sometimes people seem to forget that both Germany and Japan formally declared war on us.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:28 pmYou won a single mid-term election don’t start dancing in the streets just yet.
I don’t see Republicans lining up to do the conga either.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:28 pmComment by liberalism=mental disorder — May 1, 2007 @ 12:58 pm
Geez, I love this site. It’s freaks-on-parade here. The bumbling intellectual impotence of the koolaid drinkers is a spectacle to behold, and it convinces me of their inevitable demise.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:28 pmActually they waged war against us, we merely defended ourselves - the opposite of Iraq. Where we waged war, and they defended themselves.
Imagine that? You really should up your meds, child, you’re not just a lunatic, you’re a st*pid lunatic!
Comment by ValiantVenusGrewFromUranus
Ask Juan if he believes your account of how WWII went?
May 1st, 2007 at 1:29 pmYou won a single mid-term election don’t start dancing in the streets just yet. Comment by liberalism=mental disorder — May 1, 2007 @ 1:25 pm
You say *won*? As in the only time in decades where the winning party didn’t lose a single seat? Is that what you mean by *won*?
Or would you be referring to the loss in the numbers of registered Republicans, while there’s an increase in Democrats? Or would you be referring to the demographic and polling trends which say you’ve shot your wad as a political movement?
Sorry, child, but your mental disorder causes you to be unable to see politics as it truly exists. Your *wave* of conservatism has left you high, dry, and probably bankrupt if you’re as bad with your *money* decisions, as you are with your political ones!
May 1st, 2007 at 1:29 pmBush the Flipflopper in action:
2003:Mission Accomplished!
May 1st, 2007 at 1:29 pm2007: Mission Not Accomplished but soon, very soon! Just give me some more of the people’s money.
You won a single mid-term election don’t start dancing in the streets just yet.
Comment by liberalism=mental disorder
Watching FOX News keeps you safe from the reality you can’t handle.
Voter ID was 50/50 in 2002. Now Democrats lead Republicans by a wide margin nationwide. Phony values issues are losing traction in a big way. No new majority has ever taken power WITHOUT LOSING A SINGLE SEAT. And the Republicans themselves don’t like their presidential candidates in 2008.
America just took a big healthy shit called you.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:29 pm.
Mental,
Wow, calling me a loon, what a comeback, really powerful stuff ya got there.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:30 pmbut if we didn’t stand up to him that would have continued and continued. It was just for us to take him out and wage war against Nazi Germany and Japan.
Comment by liberalism=mental disorder
First, you didnt stand up. People in Europe did. Dont take victories for yourself. Russians won the war against Hitler, 20 million russians died in that war. There was no war in US soil, so spare me your vacous sense of pride. Stalingrad was the turning point in the war and not the “battle in Seattle”.
Second, what do you think was the reaction of right wing groups in Austria, Poland, etc when they found out that Germany was about to invade? Do you think they freaked out? Come on…they were charmed by the idea of getting more power within the Nazi ranks. When Hitler entered Poland, there were almost no resistance, except from few, brave groups. The problem is that you just see consequences…talk about Hitler and Fatherland and blah, blah…what about the causes? The real causes of wars are economic based.
Same thing in Bosnia…oh, Milosevic is killing people…why is he doing that? Wasnt Milosevic a guy from the IMF? Why did the IMF support Milosevic in the first place? See? You just see evil guys popping out in the world and then you are fed with the moralist crap of your government´s propaganda about how good we are and how evil are the others. You are being talked like a children by your media, and you are fine with that.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:30 pmliberalism=mental disorder @ 12:47 pm: “Don’t remember comparing Iraq to WWII, can you show where I did that?â€
liberalism=mental disorder @ 12:57 pm: “Since in your mind then WWII was not just, we should have allowed Hitler to do whatever he wanted…â€
Dude, just take your meds. You’re the best argument against yourself today.
Comment by Bluedog49
Great job you could work for think Progress, you are great at distorting facts. My second post you showed there was in response to Juan saying that WWII was not just. It had nothing to do with comparing Iraq to WWII. Nice try though.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:31 pmGeorge Bush is Adolph Hitler’s “Roger Clinton”.
Unfortunately, he’s also Jeb Bush’s, “George Bush”…
May 1st, 2007 at 1:32 pmJuan said that “There are no succesful wars, there are no humanitarian wars (as Kosovo was sold), there are no just wars (as WWII is sold).†I was referring to him only on this.
Yeah, he also said “You think, we pacifists cant kick ass. … Dont f*ck with us.”
Hate to break it to ya, but that’s not a “pacifist.” Look it up. One can be cynical of war (veterans are, civilian amateurs aren’t) and still not be a “pacifist.”
The economic reasons for WWII are well understood, just not in your trailer park, apparently.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:33 pm.
#60: What I expected Idiot Boy to have done is excuse himself, leave the room, and begin assessing the situation and taking action. LIKE A REAL LEADER. Staying calm and collected only works if you’ve already DONE SOMETHING.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:33 pmAnd what constitutes a “reputable†link for you?
Comment by bob’s your uncle
There are many-anything mainstream will do.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:33 pmSending in the troops should be our last option when it comes to establishing national security in countries abroad. Genocides like that in Sudan, and what happened in Somalia should never be allowed to happen again. Our soldiers are warriors, not peacekeepers. This is the primary reason why they have such a difficult time in un-warlike scenarios, like in Iraq. The enemy is not clearly defined as fighting goes on in the midst of everyday civilian life.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:34 pmAs a nation, in order to preserve our own security should help establish other secure nations, not by military means. Hunger and poverty are petri dishes for militants, terrorists, and sociopaths. Eliminating the growth sites for such terrible things would reduce the need for immediate military action. It would also, be less expensive and possibly even make money. As those who are impoverished move out of poverty and begin to develop all nations involved could begin to profit in a healthy, sustainable way.
It was a democrat that lead us into and thru WWII. A democrat built the strongest military might the world has ever seen.
It was the republicans that were the isolationists. In today’s lingo that would be surrender monkeys.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:35 pm“It was just for us to take him out and wage war against Nazi Germany.”/ “Since in your mind then WWII was not just, we should have allowed Hitler to do whatever he wanted…â€
the war started in sept. ‘39; the u.s. did not declare war against germany until dec. ‘41.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:35 pmFirst, you didnt stand up. People in Europe did. Dont take victories for yourself. Russians won the war against Hitler, 20 million russians died in that war. There was no war in US soil, so spare me your vacous sense of pride. Stalingrad was the turning point in the war and not the “battle in Seattleâ€.
Yes the people of Europe made great sacrifices and stood up. However, the war was won because the U.S. got involved by sending their troops in harms way.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:35 pmliberalism=mental disorder @ 12:57 pm: “Since in your mind then WWII was not just, we should have allowed Hitler to do whatever he wanted…â€
Dude, just take your meds. You’re the best argument against yourself today.
Comment by Bluedog49
That’s hilarious!!! What sort of moron claims “you haven’t heard me make that comparison” then MAKES THE COMPARISON HIMSELF a few minutes later. Republicans=Morons
May 1st, 2007 at 1:36 pmTo bring the thread full circle, the Bushes supported Hitler, so those comparisons aren’t exactly out of left field.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:37 pm.
OK, hold up here. Juan says the war is not just. You say, “I suppose you think WWII wasn’t just either,” or something like that.
In what universe is this not comparing Iraq to WWII? Face it, man. You’re just not making sense.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:37 pmYou say *won*? As in the only time in decades where the winning party didn’t lose a single seat? Is that what you mean by *won*?
Or would you be referring to the loss in the numbers of registered Republicans, while there’s an increase in Democrats? Or would you be referring to the demographic and polling trends which say you’ve shot your wad as a political movement?
Sorry, child, but your mental disorder causes you to be unable to see politics as it truly exists. Your *wave* of conservatism has left you high, dry, and probably bankrupt if you’re as bad with your *money* decisions, as you are with your political ones!
Comment by ValiantVenusGrewFromUranus
The republicans have controlled the house and senate since 1994 and the presidency since 2000. The dems have controlled the house and senate since 2006. We’ll see over time if you are right.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:37 pm#135. Bush has demonstrated that Republicans have no idea how to plan for or win a war. He’s demonstrated it for the past four years over and over.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:37 pmIt was a democrat that lead us into and thru WWII. A democrat built the strongest military might the world has ever seen.
It was the republicans that were the isolationists. In today’s lingo that would be surrender monkeys.
Comment by hellinabucket
It was also a democrat that put people in “camps” because they were Japanease. What’s your point?
May 1st, 2007 at 1:38 pmThat’s hilarious!!! What sort of moron claims “you haven’t heard me make that comparison†then MAKES THE COMPARISON HIMSELF a few minutes later. Republicans=Morons
Comment by And You Thought REAGAN Was Stupid
That was not a comparison. I replied to Juan saying that WWII was not just. Re-read it and you will see who the moron is.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:39 pmYour *wave* of conservatism has left you high, dry, and probably bankrupt if you’re as bad with your *money* decisions, as you are with your political ones!
Even the big corporate donors have defected to the Democrats. No one backs a loser, you know.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:40 pm.
#138
BlueDog….If you look at posting#66, you will see that Juan himself says that World War II was not a just war:
“there are no just wars (as WWII is sold).”
May 1st, 2007 at 1:40 pmOK, hold up here. Juan says the war is not just. You say, “I suppose you think WWII wasn’t just either,†or something like that.
In what universe is this not comparing Iraq to WWII? Face it, man. You’re just not making sense.
Comment by Bluedog49
Actually here is exactly what was said.
“there are no just wars (as WWII is sold)”
Now learn to read, it might help your attempt here.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:41 pmA note to the troll’s…This pacifists, know’s very well there are evil people who want to kill us, we also know our own govt. is now controled by said evil people that want to kill us and any one else that want’s to stop their total take over of world power..The world and america are now in the grip of a hand full of evil, greedy people with the sole purpose of increasing their power and bringing on a genocide with their end time’s in mind…..To be uninformed and buying into the bush cabal makes you one of the evil and stupid…Your cubords are full of kool aid, wraped in scriptures by evil pedaphiles and our flag thrown over the top to disguise all the lies and deciets….You troll’s and reich winged fundamentalists christian’s have been made fool’s of..By their own word’s bush/ rove called all the relegious reich fundies and freak’s..They won them support through lies….9/11 happened on this mindless parasites watch, he was warned, he knew and wanted to use this event to further their cause…By design or neglect bush/ rove/ cheney and all this cabal is at fault..
Get the hell off our thread unless you can offer something valed to post, stop flipping your stupid shit to people that are trying to save our country and the world…You are no better than the black water I dump out of my RV tank, indeed you all are black hearted little troll’s…..Blessings to all but the troll’s.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:43 pm“Despite his past statements, Bush now refuses to apply the same standard to his war and smears those who want a similar timetable for Iraq.”
Does this surprise you? George considers himself King and Kings only have to do what they want. They don’t need to listen to their serfs. Kings know what is best for their kingdoms and if the serfs don’t like it, too bad.
This man is a disgrace and needs to be impeached NOW!
May 1st, 2007 at 1:43 pmYes the people of Europe made great sacrifices and stood up. However, the war was won because the U.S. got involved by sending their troops in harms way.
Comment by liberalism=mental disorder
Thats debatable. Im not against the right of US to strike back after its COLONIES were attacked. However, the general population of the US didnt suffer the war in their streets. They suffered because their troops were overseas, but you didnt have to risk your life in order to fix a broken tank, like Russians did, for example. I agree that US was a great force against German and Japan, however in my opinion, you entered too late in Berlin and for no other reason than to stop the soviets for getting into Lisboa.
In any case, thats not the point. My point is how wars are sold. You are a war based economy. You need wars. Dems or Reps presidents need wars. You need to sell weapons, you need to reinforce totalitarian regimes so armed conflicts keep flowing. It is so evident that it is almost a joke if there werent so many innocents dying. There are no just wars, cuz only corporations win.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:44 pmHe complains about a rough comparison as if conservatives haven’t tried to compare the current war to WWII.
Then, he makes the same rough comparison.
Then, he maintains that he never made the rough comparison.
Yep, that’s our Bush cultist. So confused that he doesn’t need any of us to look stupid. He accomplishes that all by himself. Contratulations, Bush cultist!
May 1st, 2007 at 1:44 pmBluedog, yes. For me there are no just wars. It´s ok of you want to debunk me. Im used to that. :)
May 1st, 2007 at 1:45 pmExley, are you also going to argue that conservatives haven’t tried to compare Iraq to WWII???!!! Don’t go there. You’ll just make a fool out of yourself like our beloved Bush cultist here. We know how to “google” and we still have memories.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:46 pmIt was also a democrat that put people in “camps†because they were Japanease [sic]
Comment by liberalism=mental disorder — May 1, 2007 @ 1:38 pm
And the Reich-wingers agreed with it. What’s your point?
May 1st, 2007 at 1:46 pmRoger, Roger “I can only assume you were all against Clinton when he wasn’t providing an exist strategy………”
Excuse me, but how long were we in Kosovo? How many of our military were killed? How many innocent bystanders were killed?
There is a huge difference between Kosovo and Iraq. People with small minds like you can’t see things like that. You lack critical thinking skills.
If we had been in Kosovo for over 4 years and had seen over 3,300 of our men and women killed and over 500,000 civilians killed, I certainly would have been for a withdrawl. But, Clinton would have withdrawn our troops way before we ever got the the place where we are now in Iraq.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:48 pmBlueDog,
You are missing the point (a not-unfamiliar action with you)…It is not I who have compared Iraq to World War II here, but Juan, who initiated the topic by saying that both World War II and Iraq were equally unjust.
Do you agree with Juan that World War II was not a just war?
May 1st, 2007 at 1:51 pmHa ha ha.
What cracks me up is that Exley is challenging another blogger for the quotes of another blogger, after he has been WRONG about WMDs, Al-Qaeda/Hussein, OBL, etc…
Come on, Ex. You have zero credibility and even less moral stance.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:56 pmHe complains about a rough comparison as if conservatives haven’t tried to compare the current war to WWII.
Then, he makes the same rough comparison.
Then, he maintains that he never made the rough comparison.
Yep, that’s our Bush cultist. So confused that he doesn’t need any of us to look stupid. He accomplishes that all by himself. Contratulations, Bush cultist!
Comment by Bluedog49
What is crazy is that you have been shown by two people the quotes made by Juan and then Juan replied saying that he does believe that WWII was not just, but you can’t admit you were wrong. You are looking a lot like Bush yourself.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:57 pmHa ha ha.
What cracks me up is that Exley is challenging another blogger for the quotes of another blogger, after he has been WRONG about WMDs, Al-Qaeda/Hussein, OBL, etc…
Come on, Ex. You have zero credibility and even less moral stance.
Comment by Juan C
Looks like Bluedog has lost all credibility himself here.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:58 pmAnd the Reich-wingers agreed with it. What’s your point?
Comment by Dr. Matt
Just pointing out hypocrisy.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:59 pmLooks like Bluedog has lost all credibility himself here.
Comment by liberalism=mental disorder
With that moniker, I dont think you should be saying that.
May 1st, 2007 at 2:01 pmJuan is feeling very defensive here because he has been called out onhis hypocrisy. A few days ago he said Iraqi militants killing U.S. military personnel was “justified,” but now he is trying to portray himself as some type of sensitive pacifist who decries all war and injustice.
So, to sum up Juan’s position:
Allied campaigns in World War II? NOT justified.
Iraqi militants killing U.S. soldiers: Justified.
May 1st, 2007 at 2:02 pmIf we had been in Kosovo for over 4 years and had seen over 3,300 of our men and women killed and over 500,000 civilians killed, I certainly would have been for a withdrawl. But, Clinton would have withdrawn our troops way before we ever got the the place where we are now in Iraq.
Noone ever sets a standard before starting something like this. What is the acceptable cost (In lives and money) for a free Iraq? Darfur genocide stopping? Haiti? Getting Osama Bin Laden? etc?
At what point is it no longer worth it? Should they have walked into Iraq and said, as soon as you kill our 3000th soldier we are leaving so don’t do it?
Personally I say screw them all, let everyone else play for awhile, but I am a cold heartless person.
May 1st, 2007 at 2:02 pmMAF54
Actually, what he should have done was go straight to the site of the attack. Instead, he gave a tough talk speech and promptly hid in a bunker.
Meanwhile the rightwing loves to call Jimmy Carter, who knowing the risks went to 3 Mile Island as the nuclear reactor was melting down, a coward.
liberalism=mental disorder
Did the Poles, the gypsies, the gays, the leftwingers or the Jews at the end of WWII get justice?
Did the allies set up death camps so that the Germans, could suffer the same fate that they meeted out on others? Were German children used for scientific experiments, and were the straight, rightwing Germans who bought everything Hilter was selling, get thrown en masse into gas ovens along with their infants?
Did the Japanese have to send their women over to China