With regard to the innocent killed — consider this fact, 12 million of their relatives voted in the third election. That “poll” tells us in no uncertain terms just how the Iraqi’s feel about their own dead. They need our support, not a show of cowardly withdrawal.

And why are there no sustained and large anti-US demonstrations in Iraq? Why? Because the only people who want us to go home right now, before the Iraqi’s can serve themselves are some in this country.
Peolpe are not hating us over there, the general public.
Absolutely not. All you have is a traitorist newwork news media distorting the facts, day after day, without a pause —- never, absolutely never, giving both sides of the story. Outrageous. During Viet Nam, we often heard news about the enemy’s casualties. But it is my generation that is in power, now — many of them ex-hippies — and that is reflected in the anti-war (actually anti everything) stance of the curren media players.

The “war” has been over for quite some time. It is now a police action. I personally believe Bin Laden is dead — he has not made a “public” appearance or a video that can be positively identified as including himself in nealry 4 years.

John Smithson
http://barthandtheboyz.blogspot.com

This is what is so frustrating with the anti-anything crowd ….. their memories (assuming they are honest folk) do not really work them.

Your statement, the “most important figures are missing” simply is not true.

First , go to your chart on this site — BAM, there they are !! But where oh where are the enimies casalties? Nowhere to be found. Again, 19,000 prisoners taken, 200,00 killed and they have been defeated in every single political effort they have tried. Blowing up bombs is not a “political effort” by the way … neither is taking 10 minutes to cut someone’s head off, saving the throat-cut until the last so you can hear him/her scream during the ordeal. They are not “freedom fighters.” They are Nazi style perverts with a blood lust.

Secondly, the innocent dead are more the result of Muslim jihadist than anything we have done. Let’s not forget that. It is THE reason the people of Iraq are not demonstrating by the tens of thousands for us to leave — because they know who is doing the killing.

Thirdly, why are the dead more important than the living? Tell me that.
This last Iraqi election was the most populated of the three – something close to `12 million adults took their lives into harms way not from us but from the Muslim punkish hords, and voted — that was nearly 80% voting. If we are cramming democracy down their throats, why in the world are they voting in record numbers??? So tell me why that is not a positive “poll ” for what we are attempting to do in that country ?

There isn’t anyone who wants us to stay forever —- including President Bush. But there are precious few (in Iraq) who want us to leave right now. You cry for the Iraqi people when they do not want us to cut and run. You cry for the poor old soldier when they do not want your tears.

Right now, this very minute, the new Democrat congress has an approval rating of 29% according to Thurs. Gallop Poll – less than the Pres and sinking !! So while all you Anti’s want no responsibility for the deafeated of this world , comparatively few Americans agree.

John Smithson
http://barthandtheboyz.blogspot.com

This is what is so frustrating with the anti-anything crowd ….. their memories (assuming they are honest folk) do not really work them.

Your statement, the “most important figures are missing” simply is not true.

First , go to your chart on this site — BAM, there they are !! But where oh where are the enimies casalties? Nowhere to be found. Again, 19,000 prisoners taken, 200,00 killed and they have been defeated in every single political effort they have tried. Blowing up bombs is not a “political effort” by the way … neither is taking 10 minutes to cut someone’s head off, saving the throat-cut until the last so you can hear him/her scream during the ordeal. They are not “freedom fighters.” They are Nazi style perverts with a blood lust.

Secondly, the innocent dead are more the result of Muslim jihadist than anything we have done. Let’s not forget that. It is THE reason the people of Iraq are not demonstrating by the tens of thousands for us to leave — because they know who is doing the killing.

Thirdly, why are the dead more important than the living? Tell me that.
This last Iraqi election was the most populated of the three – something close to `12 million adults took their lives into harms way not from us but from the Muslim punkish hords, and voted — that was nearly 80% voting. If we are cramming democracy down their throats, why in the world are they voting in record numbers??? So tell me why that is not a positive “poll ” for what we are attempting to do in that country ?

There isn’t anyone who wants us to stay forever —- including President Bush. But there are precious few (in Iraq) who want us to leave right now. You cry for the Iraqi people when they do not want us to cut and run. You cry for the poor old soldier when they do not want your tears.

Right now, this very minute, the new Democrat congress has an approval rating of 29% according to Thurs. Gallop Poll – less than the Pres and sinking !! So while all you Anti’s want no responsibility for the deafeated of this world , comparatively few Americans agree.

John Smithson
http://barthandtheboyz.blospot.com

Interesting to see that many Americans only look at their own losses.

to PD Johnson (#414) responce:

Pres Bush DID NOT act alone in the Iraqi circumstance. Such a claim would be down right silly if it were not for the fact that so many present this statement as “truth.”

Not even close and for the following reasons:

Bush was told by Clinton that Saddam was a threat and that he had WMDs. So who is yealling at Clinton? And why did he have Sandy Berger steal documents about 9/11 from sequestered files? Let’s talk cover-up, shall we? And let’s call it what it is — criminal cover-up. But, heh, it is so much more fun to blame Bush.

Clinton’s CIA Director told Bush that Saddam had WMDs and was a very dangerous threat to the region and to the U.S. That is why, no doubt, Bush kept Clinton’s CIA Director on board after he took office. Have you never wondered why he did that — kept the Director? Apparently not. Well, what other reason than the fact that it was the Clinton administration who claimed this danger. So serious a porposition that Bush, of course, would keep those in place who knew more about the problem than anyone else.

All of the world’s intellignece agencies told Bush that Saddam had WMDs and was a real danger to the world.

Saddam pretended to have WMDs and Bush gave him 14 months to admit that he did not have them and let the UN verify this notion. Saddam did not. His own generals have told us that they thought the military had them, as well.

Saddam plotted the assasination of both Bush 41 and Pres Clinton — acts of war in their own rite and serious acts of war, at that.

Nearly all of the Democrat leadership thought Saddam had WMDs and said so, at the time. They should have never opened their mouths if they did not know what they were talking about — something they now claim to be true (that they did not know what they talking about) , but it was all Bush’s fault. and why would we want such a bunch of fools in office, anyway. Its not my fault, I only said what they wanted me to say, I didn’t have time to check it out for myself, and so on.

The 9/11 governmental conspiracy theory is utterly silly and speaks to the credibility of its authors. Absolutely asinine

And to your opinion that we are at war with 1 billion Arabs – again, sadly misinformed. But we cannot cut and run as do the cowards of this world. I cannot defend “WMDs.” But who was to know, especially when Saddam himself was pretending to still — key on that word “still” — have them in his military?

And how do you get out of Iraqi without the massacre of the last 20 or 30 thousand troops? It might not matter to you, but it does to me and THAT is part of the source of my angst about all this. absolutely no one in the left of left cares about the troops. 70% of the troops still — key on that word “still” — wants to stay and finish the job. Why? BECAUSE THEY THINK THEY CAN FINISH IT. Because they see people everyday thanking them for being there. I have heard their (the soldiers) testimony on this countless times.

You cannot guarantee to get the troops home safely under a cut and run as cowards do scenario. That last 10 or 15 or 20 or 30 thjousand troops — are they dead men because of the Democrats? Time will and if they are — the days of being “Mr mice Guy” will end for this 62 year old father of 3 boys.

John Smithson
bart(h)andtheboyz.blogspot.com

So as a qualified idiot let me take your 200K number. This is good news. But from the other numbers shown above we can observe that attacks have increased exponentially!! So (as an idiot of course) I would assume to say that there are a lot more out there. To dispute if these are the effect of our intervention or not is futile but we can not deny that there are much more out there now!! So lets say there are maybe 2-400K more! does that mean the we have another 4-8 years left before the situation is truly under control? Will it really every end though.. their are 1B Arabs out there and not withstanding these efforts the population will grow very rapidly!!

You mention 9/11 will we ever really know the truth behind what happened? By the time it will be revealed nobody will care anymore because other real problems would put that at the bottom of any list, like shortage of water supply and perhaps the effects of global warming. But of course these are only fairy tales that will never happen.

The good news if such things do occur the folks with the big guns will be well prepared to eliminate the weak cowardice/traitor idiots who were wining in the year 2007.

In the end we all need to take the emotion out and truly try and see each sides view points. I guess I am just one of the idiots but this a real tough problem and unless we can show some maturity we will never make any progress. And while we are so entrenched in our arguments. The Chineese Communists, Arabs and others have diverted enough attention to have played on this as a true weakness and driven our nation to bankrupcy. Brilliant!!!

On the other side of the fence are those who claim we need to pull out and that this is not anti-patriotic at all but just the most logical thing to do to stop the bleeding. The weakness here is how do you just pull out without admitting defeat, and what will be the consequences of such action?

I feel this has been a huge error, however, we can not just pull the plug. We made the mess and we can not just wash our hands of the matter. At the same time our current course of action does not seem to lead anywhere and the more we go down this path the worse things seem to get. Here are my thoughts on a possible path that can lead to overall success.

The goal – establish stability in the region. Provide hope and well being to the people of the region. Assure that the peoples in this region recognize the sacrifices that the US has made to truly grant them a better future.

How – First of we need to admit our error. We need to show the world that we admit that invading another country without the consensus of the UN and most of the world is something that is wrong and should not repeat itself. We need to admit that hundreds of thousands have died and most of these innocent people due to these errors. We should not pull out but make a commitment to help the country rebuild but not only the US other countries should actively pitch in. Our only scope should be peace keeping, education and rebuilding. This can not really be accomplished without admitting our errors. To do this I believe the following needs to happen:

1. The American People must demand the resignation and removal from power of all who have been involved with making these errors. Starting with the president himself.

2. The rest of the world should demand that trials be held against those responsible for these errors and the death of hundreds and thousands of people!!!

3. A new administration needs to be put in place with a mandate to make amends and establish amicable relations with not only the Iraq government but the people of Iraq and the region.

4. The Iraq government needs to take full ownership of the mess that remains. Plus the UN needs to monitory actions there to assure that atrocities are not committed by the government.

5. The UN needs to establish a global capacity to try and even execute anyone who commits crimes against humanity. This should not only be for the deeds of the likes of Saddam Hussein but of Drug Lords and those who illegally deal in arms sales etc. Political corruption should also be considered a crime against humanity in my opinion.

Of course what I have stated is utopia, however, pulling out is not the correct thing to do, and trying to stay the current course is also invalid. Other alternatives need to be considered based on a very exact mission statement, that the entire world can buy into.

Let us re-collect what we didnt know then and just assumed because Bush said so;

1/ Iraq had nothing to do with 9 /11, nor did Syria or Iran. We assumed otherwise.

2/ Saddams party (Bath) had an Arab Nationalist / Secular ideology in sharp contrast to Al-Qaeda’s version of Islamic fundamentalism. We assumed otherwise and now Al-Qaeda has a foothold in Iraq.

3/ US was the post popular country in the Middle East, particularly among the youth. We assumed that they all hate us.

Certain other facts to note, Al-Qaeda was then an obscure organization born out of the turmoil in Afghanistan, financed by an extremely rich and crazy zealot. It had no country then, it has none now, it was sort of like Kuo Klux Klan but thousand times more dangerous. After 9/11 all the governments in the region wanted to to get rid of it and fight it to the end in Afghanistan. Even Iran offered help. Many of us might not know but Iran and Al-Qaeda are sworn enemies.

However, what we did and 75% of us supported is mind boggling. We set aside our mission which had international support i.e. destroying Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan, capturing / killing Osama, the man behind 9/11.
We nearly did it but then we attacked Iraq and brought death and destruction to a country that meant us no harm. I wonder who is responsible Bush or us? Will any time in future we as a nation start making decisions on facts rather than assumptions? Will we pressure our media to inform us about the world rather then the OJ trial or cat & dog stories? Believe it or not people in the 3rd world countries are more informed than us, ironically we are the ones driving the information age.

to conclude, the greatest threat to a Nations security or for that matter anybody’s security is not knowing who your enemy is and who your friends are.

As for the 5 million that were killed after we cut and run, that’s a valid point. But these things need to be viewed in the round, we are not entirely blameless in this cycle of hate and violence.

We supported Saddam in his war against Iran, provided him with the technology for ‘WOMD’ and then, after the Kuwaiti War, were obliged to impose sanctions and a bombing campaign to have them removed. Millions have already died and unless we learn from these events will history have to repeat itself yet again?

Unbelievable…

January 20, 1965 – Lyndon B. Johnson takes the oath as president and declares, “We can never again stand aside, prideful in isolation. Terrific dangers and troubles that we once called “foreign” now constantly live among us…”

March 2, 1965 – Operation Rolling Thunder begins as over 100 American fighter-bombers attack targets in North Vietnam. Scheduled to last eight weeks, Rolling Thunder will instead go on for three years.

March 8, 1965 – The first U.S. combat troops arrive in Vietnam as 3500 Marines land at China Beach to defend the American air base at Da Nang. They join 23,000 American military advisors already in Vietnam.

By year’s end, 1966, U.S. troop levels reached 389,000 with 5008 combat deaths and 30,093 wounded. Over half of the American causalities are caused by snipers and small-arms fire during Viet Cong ambushes, along with handmade booby traps and mines planted everywhere in the countryside by Viet Cong.

By year’s end, 1967, U.S. troop levels had reached 463,000 with 16,000 combat deaths to date.

If history is repeating itself, expect moves to re-introduce the draft. Heck, why wait for the call up, take to the streets now. Dubya managed to avoid service in Vietnam …. he’ll understand the message?

The evil done by our administration (causing much death, injury, destruction) has been and still is horrible! The real motivation is oil. One of the world’s well known problems this century is energy shortage. Instead of cooperating with other countries, our government is selfishly trying to rob Iraq’s oil, even murdering many to do so!

ustedes los estado unidenses son todos unos idiotas hijos de puta…

ojala les callera una bomba atomica!

weones imbeciles!

mueranse!