Bush’s Definition Of Iraq Success Called ‘Naive’ By Cheney And ‘Frightening’ By Giuliani
Bush’s Definition Of Iraq Success Called ‘Naive’ By Cheney And ‘Frightening’ By Giuliani
During the 2004 election, Sen. John Kerry (D-MA) explained that success against terrorism will occur when terrorist acts, such as those in Iraq, are reduced to the level that “they’re a nuisance.” Kerry explained gains can be made against terrorism when “it isn’t threatening people’s lives every day, and fundamentally, it’s something that you continue to fight, but it’s not threatening the fabric of your life.”
For laying out an honest assessment of his counterterrorism approach, Kerry was mercilessly attacked by President Bush, Vice President Cheney, and Rudy Giuliani:
BUSH: Just this weekend we saw new evidence that the Senator fundamentally misunderstands the war against terror. … Our goal is not to reduce terror to some acceptable level of nuisance. Our goal is to defeat terror by staying on the offensive, destroying the networks, and spreading freedom and liberty. [10/12/04]
CHENEY: Nor can we think of our goal in this war in the way Senator Kerry described it yesterday in The New York Times. Quote: “We have to get back to the place,” he said, where terrorism is “a nuisance,” sort of like – and these are his comparisons — sort of like gambling and prostitution. This is naive and dangerous. [10/11/04]
GIULIANI: “In a conference call with reporters arranged by the Bush campaign, Rudolph W. Giuliani, the former mayor of New York, mocked Mr. Kerry for comparing terrorism to gambling and prostitution. ‘The idea that you can have an acceptable level of terrorism is frightening,’ Mr. Giuliani said.” [NYT, 10/12/04]
But today in his remarks on Iraq, President Bush — without saying so explicitly — embraced Kerry’s definition of success against terrorism. “Success is a level of violence where the people feel comfortable about living their daily lives.” Watch it:
Bush is late in understanding how to fight terror. And while his rhetoric suggests his views have evolved, his policy has not.
Transcript:
BUSH: Either we’ll succeed, or we won’t succeed. And the definition of success as I described is sectarian violence down. Success is not, no violence. There are parts of our own country that have got a certain level of violence to it. But success is a level of violence where the people feel comfortable about living their daily lives. And that’s what we’re trying to achieve.
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don’t blame me, I voted for Kerry
May 2nd, 2007 at 4:38 pmactually, none of these people have it right. success is moving back to the foreign policy of Thomas Jefferson and George Washington.
We CAN move in a new direction.
Some thoughts at :
“What we can do about Terrorism”
http://www.populistamerica.com/what_can_we_do_about_terrorism
May 2nd, 2007 at 4:39 pmDay Late & Dollar Short (plus a few brain cells, too) Bush! He’s just mouthing words which means nothing to him – his handlers put it in his speech and his policy reflects that he totally doesn’t comprehend it.
May 2nd, 2007 at 4:41 pmDo they remember nothing they’ve said in the past? Apparently they’re counting on the press not reminding the people.
Thanks reporters for not doing your jobs.
May 2nd, 2007 at 4:43 pmI’m sure they are all writing apologies to John Kerry as we speak. /sarcasm
May 2nd, 2007 at 4:43 pmOnce again Chimpy flip flops on big issues.
In 1999, Chimpy demanded an exit plan and a timetable for withdrawal from Kosovo.
In 2007 he vetoed them for Iraq.
Chimpy is a dangerously incompetent fool who will flip-flop whenever it suits him.
May 2nd, 2007 at 4:43 pmThere is no such thing as an acceptable level of violence.
May 2nd, 2007 at 4:44 pmReality includes levels of violence, that is not to say it is acceptable at any level.
Such utter hypocrisy coming from leaders who claim to be christians.
Terrorism is not fought with a huge military. To do so breeds more contempt and increases animosity towards America.
May 2nd, 2007 at 4:45 pmMaybe Olbermann will put Kerry and Bush’s quotes back to back for a nice comparison.
May 2nd, 2007 at 4:45 pmThe neocons truly believe that as long as they SAY what the people want to hear,they can do anything else -including the polar opposite of what they just said, and that it’ll be okay.
They don’t get that ACTIONS speak louder than words…
May 2nd, 2007 at 4:45 pmWhere are the tolls? The truth really sucks I guess!
May 2nd, 2007 at 4:50 pmIt’s all part of the strategy: the insurgents will be emboldened if they are able to make sense of American foreign policy, so a schitzoid-seeming administration will be hardest to read. They won’t know what we’re up to, if we don’t know ourselves.
May 2nd, 2007 at 4:50 pmWell said Raven.
May 2nd, 2007 at 4:53 pmSend the same bill back to BUSH again and again.
May 2nd, 2007 at 4:53 pmTerraists? Bush is the biggest terrorist of the 21st century, no contest. The socalled “shock and awe”used against the Iraqi people in 2003 was thousands of acts of terror strung together in rapid succession. There is no “war on terror” (it is absurd to have a “war” on a tactic, in the first place). There has been a systematic terror attack by western imperial nations (The USA, France, Britain) against the people of the third world that has been going on for many many years now, in an attempt to get them to allow us to steal their resources, such as oil and timber…
It is truly vile how most all of these discussions of “terror” seem to be held in a vacuum, with no context of the past western imperial occupations and interventions in the affairs of the countries of the Middle East. When President Carter and President Reagan were getting in a snit about American embassy personnel being seized and held hostage in 1979, there was virtually no media discussion about how our CIA and the Brits had overthrown the democratic government in Iran (at the behest of BP Petroleum Co.) in 1953 and replaced it with the vicious dictator, the Shah of Iran. He tortured and murdered thousands of Iranians, but he was a buddy of Britain and the USA…
May 2nd, 2007 at 4:53 pmRAPE-PUBIC-CANS rank your failures
Pick your favorite
RAPE-PUBIC-CANS rank your favorite failure. The Hunt for Osama.
May 2nd, 2007 at 4:54 pmThe hunt for Mullah Omar.
The hunt for WMD’s.
Social Security reform.
Harriet Miers nomination.
Healthcare reform.
Iraqi civil war.
Stage II of Pre-war intelligence.
Katrina rebuilding.
Restoring integrity to the office.
Reducing the debt.
Ports deal.
Susan Ralston.
Philip A. Cooney, the chief of staff to President Bush’s Council on Environmental Quality.
Grand Moff Baker.
Gonzogate.
Tobias.
David Safavian.
Scooter Libby.
Claude A. Allen.
Tom Delay’s Money laundering trial.
Ney Conviction.
Foleygate.
Cunningham Conviction.
State of Denial.
Ahbramoff.
Missing 8 billion Iraq funds.
Extended tours for military.
Record bankruptcy’s.
1.3 TRILLION tax give away while waging two wars.
Increasing National debt to 8.5 TRILLION.
The UN’s irrelevancy.
Yellowcake uranium from Niger .
Tax cuts for the ultra wealthy.
Skyrocketing energy prices.
Stagnant wages.
Iraq Clusterf***.
Taliban resurgence.
Guest visa give-away.
N. Korea with Nukes on Bush watch.
$20 barrel for oil when Chimpy came to office.
Iran dominance?
Heard this great idea from a caller on Ed Shultz:
Congress to the president: “We will not impeach you, but when you are out of office, we will turn all records to the Justice dept. and put you, Cheney and others in jail.”
Use that threat for negotiating the Iraq Bill.
May 2nd, 2007 at 4:57 pmWhere’s Jeff Gannon and the latest gay hating gay republican from the CPAC?
May 2nd, 2007 at 4:57 pmI wonder…does this mean that the Swift Boat Veterans for Lies will now start swiftboating Bush for being soft on terrorists (or turists as that dumb bastard pronounces it)???
May 2nd, 2007 at 5:01 pmNotice there are two types of Cons now
1. SHEEP – Still dining on the dung curds of a failed administration (Patrick1)
2. RATS – Jumping ship to save their smarmy carcass.
Anyone see a pattern emerging?
Nov 8 – Don Rumsfeld Resigns
Dec 4 – John Bolton Resigns
Jan 9 – Four Appeals Court Nominations withdrawn
Jan 17 – DOJ submits electronic eavesdropping program to FISA Court oversight
Jan 18 – House “100 Hours” Legislative Agenda completed
Feb 7 – El Paso Corp – The nation’s largest natural gas pipeline company agrees to pay the federal government $7.7 million to settle corruption allegations related to the U.N. oil-for-food scandal over aid to Iraq.
Feb 8 – Pentagon Inspector General Report Critical of Douglas J. Feith Released
Feb 16 – House passes resolution opposing Bush’s escalation in Iraq
Feb 16 – DOJ withdraws nomination of J. Timothy Griffin for US Attorney – AR
Mar 1 – General Weightman is relieved of command
Mar 2 – Army Secretary Francis J. Harvey is fired
Mar 12 – Army Sugeon General Kevin Kiley resigns
Mar 12 – DoJ Chief of Staff Kyle Sampson resigns
Apr 6 – DOJ Senior Counsel Monica Goodling resigns
Apr 27 – Deputy Secretary of State Randall L. Tobias resigns
May 1 – Julie MacDonald, deputy assistant secretary at Interior resigns
May 2nd, 2007 at 5:02 pmBush makes statements and takes actions because they are self-serving, not because they are logical, consistent, or make sense.
He is an embarrassment to the presidency and to this nation.
May 2nd, 2007 at 5:04 pmGas is $3 a gallon here in Denver and they’re predicting $4 by summer.
Chimpynomics strikes again!
May 2nd, 2007 at 5:07 pmBush: “f you think progress, i do have clothes on! i do. dick said i does! Dana?”
May 2nd, 2007 at 5:08 pmAmericans don’t like the truth. They want to hear bullshit like completely eliminating terrorism and spreading liberty and democracy.
Getting the terrorism to a livable level is realistic, and attainable.
May 2nd, 2007 at 5:08 pmSo basically the people that voted for bush in 2004 have cost us well over 1500 American lives?
May 2nd, 2007 at 5:09 pmPoor Georgie. It must hurt his faux-macho ego terribly to be such a flip-flopper. He was against acceptable levels of reduced terror before he was for it.
May 2nd, 2007 at 5:12 pmSuccess is a level of violence where the people feel comfortable about living their daily lives, and that’s what we’re trying to achieve
Comment by The Chimp
Ohhh, so they’ve been trying to achieve ’success’ as defined by this crack-pot statement.
May 2nd, 2007 at 5:20 pmThat just settles everything doesn’t it.
I’ve been mistaken all this time . . . I thought for sure it was the prevention of the:
‘Smoking gun in the form of a shroom cloud’ that they were undertaking.
Wow, really glad they’ve straightened me out on this, it’s all worth it now.
So it’s not a war for oil,
It’s not a war against an imminent threat,
It’s not a war against terror,
It’s not a war for global democracy,
It’s not a war against an evil dictator,
It’s a war for an acceptable level of violence?
I think I will read a different fairy tale when I put my children to bed tonight. They are too smart to believe this one.
May 2nd, 2007 at 5:23 pmAmericans don’t like the truth. They want to hear bullshit like completely eliminating terrorism and spreading liberty and democracy.
Getting the terrorism to a livable level is realistic, and attainable.
Comment by ForTruth
America is brain washed by the right wing corporate owned media…400+ am radio outlets spend the entire day spewing LIES to the public. This is what our Dem congress is so afraid of.
“Getting the terrorism to a livable level is realistic, and attainable” How many terrorist do you think we have created by our murderous, filthy, illegal deeds? 10 fold? More?
May 2nd, 2007 at 5:24 pm*
just heard on randi – worth passing along:
new bumper sticker:
MY KID IS AN HONOR STUDENT
MY PRESIDENT IS A MORON
:-)
May 2nd, 2007 at 5:29 pmand W’s Reign OF Terror continues–White House is the open ward where this psycho runs free.
May 2nd, 2007 at 5:29 pmKevin,
Talk to any cop. Do they think crime can be eradicated? Or do they work for keeping crime under control? Same stuff pee-pants.
May 2nd, 2007 at 5:31 pmsniff, sniff….I smell desperation from thinkprogress.org…..
talk about spin, spin, spin zone!
“But today in his remarks on Iraq, President Bush — without saying so explicitly — embraced Kerry’s definition of success against terrorism. “Success is a level of violence where the people feel comfortable about living their daily lives.†”
by thinkprogress.org
no where near what communist John Kerry said. For goodness sake, Kerry the idiot said that our troops were terrorizing Iraqis.
incredible that the left cries about O’Reily and his so called No Spin Zone and here we have thinkprogress.org spining way.
do you guys not get tired of your hypocrisy?
May 2nd, 2007 at 5:35 pmKevin,
You should also inform your child at bedtime that crime cannot be completely eradicated right in your city, but the authorities do the best they can to keep it at a liveable level.
Do you hate the truth? I would say yes you do.
May 2nd, 2007 at 5:35 pmjust heard on randi – worth passing along:
new bumper sticker:
MY KID IS AN HONOR STUDENT
MY PRESIDENT IS A MORON
:-)
Comment by katy — May 2, 2007 @ 5:29 pm
yes, perfect example of how thinkprogress.org dedicates a whole story by O’Reilly using personal attacks and slurs against people he disagrees with and here we have Randi Rhodes doing the same thing. Will thinkprogress.org do an expose and a study on how Randi Rhodes insult anyone she disagrees with?
where is Crump’s Brother who claimed the left doesn’t insult anyone?
Ranid Rhodes, what a joke, how many listeners does she have now, herself and Katy? hahaha!
May 2nd, 2007 at 5:36 pmIn that screen capture, Bush looks like Wayland Flower’s paper mache headed cohort “Madame”… Creepy.
http://www.puppet.org/museum/pix/78.jpg
May 2nd, 2007 at 5:38 pmBut shouldn’t thinkprogress.org be happy that our PResident, according to thinkprogress.org, is talking like the “smart” John Kerry, who received worst grades in college than President Bush?
May 2nd, 2007 at 5:39 pmComment by valiantthehater
Both sides spin, parse, etc. It’s politics. I think you have done it a few times.
Hey I am aware of TP’s spin on things. I’ve come to expect to have to read up and not take the posts at face value. I agree TP is not immune from the political discourse of spinning and what not.
Some of Kerry’s ideas are being tested by the Chimpya, not all of them, but some. I think that can be safely said. You?
May 2nd, 2007 at 5:39 pm“America is brain washed by the right wing corporate owned media…400+ am radio outlets spend the entire day spewing LIES to the public. This is what our Dem congress is so afraid of.
Comment by goehl — May 2, 2007 @ 5:24 pm”
I was appalled by CNN’s coverage of Bush’s veto – and how it tried to smear the Democratic leadership by saying that the party was fractured. It was a very biased article.
May 2nd, 2007 at 5:40 pm#15 “There is no “war on terror†(it is absurd to have a “war†on a tactic, in the first place). There has been a systematic terror attack by western imperial nations (The USA, France, Britain) against the people of the third world that has been going on for many many years now, in an attempt to get them to allow us to steal their resources, such as oil and timber…”
Bite your tongue! Next thing you will be telling me is that Santa doesn’t live in the North Pole. I’ll bet you don’t even like the “Emperor’s new clothes.” Pity you can’t see them!…snark off.
May 2nd, 2007 at 5:41 pmCaption Contest:
Chimpy: A lot of people are tired around here… but I’m not sure they’re ready to lie down stretch out and fall asleep…that’s a famous preacher, who said that that is…
May 2nd, 2007 at 5:42 pmOne difference between the left and right is that the left doesn’t perch themselves as being morally superior. If the right didn’t do that, there wouldn’t be nearly as much attacking of their hypocracy. The left is full of hypocrites too. But the right really opens themselves up to scruteny with thier “values” and “morals”.
May 2nd, 2007 at 5:42 pmBush ‘04: “Our goal is not to reduce terror to some acceptable level of nuisance.”
Bush ‘07: “Success is a level of violence where the people feel comfortable about living their daily lives.”
Bush ‘99: “Victory means exit strategy, and it’s important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is.”
Bush ‘07: “A timetable for leaving Iraq makes no sense.”
I know, I know, Bush cultists. When Bush does it, it’s not “flip-flopping,” it’s simply changing your mind.
May 2nd, 2007 at 5:44 pmRanid Rhodes, what a joke, how many listeners does she have now, herself and Katy? hahaha!
Comment by valiantthehater
I don’t listen to her, nor any pundits. Would, could you, please, flush the pundit potty? Thanks, and have a great day Jane.
May 2nd, 2007 at 5:48 pmSynapsis of Articles of Impeachment Against Vice President Richard B. Cheney
Articles of impeachment exhibited by the House of Representatives of the United States of America in the name of itself and of the people of the United States of America, in maintenance and support of its impeachment against him for high crimes and misdemeanors.
Artice I
The Vice President of the United States, Richard B. Cheney, has purposely manipulated the intelligence process to deceive the citizens and Congress of the United States by fabricating a threat of Iraqi weapons of mass destruction to justify the use of the U.S. Armed Forces against the nation of Iraq in a manner damaging to our national security interests.
(1) Despite all evidence to the contrary, the Vice President actively and systematically sought to deceive the citizens and Congress of the United States about an alleged threat of Iraqi weapons of mass destruction.
(2) Preceding the March 2003 invasion of Iraq the Vice President was fully informed that no legitimate evidence existed of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. The Vice President pressured the intelligence community to change their findings to enable the deception of the citizens and Congress of the United States.
(3) The Vice President’s actions corrupted or attempted to corrupt the 2002 National Intelligence Estimate, an intelligence document issued on October 1, 2002 vote to autorize the use of force. The Vice President’s actions prevented the necessary reconciliation of facts for the National Intellgence Estimate which resulted in a high number of dissenting opinions from technical experts in two federal agencies.
The Vice President subverted the national security interests of the United States by setting the stage for the loss of more than 3,300 United States service members; the loss of 650,000 Iraqi citizens since the U.S. invasion; the loss of approximately $500 billion in war costs which has increased our federal debt; the loss of military readiness within the United States Armed Services due to overextension, lack of training and lack of equipment; the loss of United States credibility in world affairs; and the decares of likely blowback created by the invasion of Iraq.
EVIDENCE:
kucinich.house.gov/UploadedFiles/artI1A.pdf
May 2nd, 2007 at 5:49 pmkucinich.house.gov/UploadedFiles/artI1B.pdf
kucinich.house.gov/UploadedFiles/artI1C.pdf
kucinich.house.gov/UploadedFiles/artI1D.pdf
kucinich.house.gov/UploadedFiles/artI1E.pdf
kucinich.house.gov/UploadedFiles/artI1FG.pdf
kucinich.house.gov/UploadedFiles/artI1H.pdf
kucinich.house.gov/UploadedFiles/artI2A.pdf
kucinich.house.gov/UploadedFiles/artI2B.pdf
kucinich.house.gov/UploadedFiles/artI3.pdf
kucinich.house.gov/UploadedFiles/artI3.pdf
kucinich.house.gov/UploadedFiles/artI3.pdf
kucinich.house.gov/UploadedFiles/clo1.pdf
kucinich.house.gov/UploadedFiles/clo2.pdf
kucinich.house.gov/UploadedFiles/clo3.pdf
kucinich.house.gov/UploadedFiles/clo4.pdf
when to know you are speaking to a wacko communist….
when they start referring to western nations as imperialist countries, when they claim there is no war on terror, when they claim that the terrorists are the first world nations acting against third world nations.
freaking wackos….
yes keep telling yourself that extreme Islamists are wonderful people that want to live peacefully side by side by Jews, Christians, atheists, etc.
wow! incredible that there is such wackyness out there.
May 2nd, 2007 at 5:49 pm“who received worst grades in college than President Bush?
Comment by valiantthehater — May 2, 2007 @ 5:39 pm”
Harvard does a pass fail system in most of its courses.
Once Harvard let’s someone in, they won’t let them fail, or it looks poorly upon their reputation of ‘extreme selectivity’.
Based on those realities, you cannot compare Bush with Kerry, who went to Boston, did in undergraduate school.
As for Yale, they had virtually identical GPAs. I’ll even give you a FAUX “news” link to marinate in:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,158776,00.html
Though, anyone who watched the kid with straight A’s in middle school not get accepted into tehgofted program can attest, it isn’t about grades… It’s about what you do with what you have. And clearly, Kerry’s experience puts him intellectually over Bush, as their three debates mercilessly demonstrated.
Don’t YOU get tired of your own hypocrisy, lies and misformation? And, does your brain hurt from not ever using it?
May 2nd, 2007 at 5:50 pm“who received worst grades in college than President Bush?
Comment by valiantthehater — May 2, 2007 @ 5:39 pmâ€
apparently, you, for using the superlative “worst” as oppossed to the grammatically correct “worse”
May 2nd, 2007 at 5:56 pm“But the right really opens themselves up to scruteny with thier “values†and “moralsâ€.
Comment by ForTruth — May 2, 2007 @ 5:42 pm”
I suppose IF you consider hate a family value… :D
I’ve been studying the bible. The more of it I learn, especially in context to history, Greek + Hebrew languages, as well as common sense, the more I understand the unethical “morality” of the far right. It’s a very violent book filled with a lot of blood-letting of everyone from fetuses and infants to non-Christians. It explains why they are so pro-war, so divisive and so intolerant. Even Jesus was anti-family (read the Chapter of Matthew), misogynistic, and intolerant of fig trees that won’t bear fruit out of season…
Time to get these folks some new role models…
May 2nd, 2007 at 5:59 pmThat’s right Valient, I am a voice of reason and moderate. So please ignore me and focus on stuff that blows up your skirt, as that is your agenda.
Talk about cherry-picking. Jeez.
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:00 pmBut shouldn’t thinkprogress.org be happy that our PResident, according to thinkprogress.org, is talking like the “smart†John Kerry, who received worst grades in college than President Bush?
Comment by valiantthehater
Why don’t you write thinkprogress an email and ask them? And then after you have gotten a reply, usually within 3-4 business months or about 1 F.U. (Friedman Unit=)
Be sure to come back in few months and let us know what they said
Ta Ta! and have a nice summer.
yes keep telling yourself that extreme Islamists are wonderful people that want to live peacefully side by side by Jews, Christians, atheists, etc. wow! incredible that there is such wackyness out there.
Comment by valiantthehater
What you seem to be forgetting is that as with Vietnam and as in the Russian Afghan war, even the Iran and Iraq wars were helped by US. Reagan called them freedom fighters George, and you, call them terrorist. How can that be?
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:00 pmyes unbelieve,
Kerry smearing our troops after he came back from Vietnam and making up lies about them puts him in a complete different level than President bush, you are right.
Kerry meeting with American’s enemies during Vietnam also puts him in a completly different planet.
Yes, Kerry who couldn’t win an election against a supposed idiot has accomplished more than Bush.
Unbelieve, if Kerry is so much smarter than Bush, why couldn’t he beat him, why isn’t Kerry our President?
What does it make you if you are beaten by what you called a chimp, and idiot? I much bigger idiot.
think before you type! your posts will come accross as being written by a smart individual.
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:00 pmBush’s Definition Of Iraq Success Called ‘Naive’ By Cheney And ‘Frightening’ By Giuliani (as it applied to John Kerry).
Ah, yes. But are they saying that today? Of course not!
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:01 pmIOKIYAR.
yes keep telling yourself that extreme Islamists are wonderful people that want to live peacefully side by side by Jews, Christians, atheists, etc.
wow! incredible that there is such wackyness out there.
Comment by valiantthehater
To the right reasoning and scientific thought is “wacky” and “silly”.
What is incredible is how treacherous they are and continue to be by saying those that want to intelligently fight the terrorism threat think terrorists want to be friendly neighbors with jews.
Keep it up republicans you are coving for Osama very well.. and the recruitment effort you are manning is doing wonders for him… keep it up…becaus someday the people of America is going to turn into a mob and then you will pay dearly…
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:01 pm#33 Comment by valiantthehater — May 2, 2007 @ 5:35 pm
“no where near what communist John Kerry said. For goodness sake, Kerry the idiot said that our troops were terrorizing Iraqis.
incredible that the left cries about O’Reily and his so called No Spin Zone and here we have thinkprogress.org spining way.
do you guys not get tired of your hypocrisy?”
Good grief! You trolls even stretch your spin! Don’t your arms ever get tired trying to keep your fantasy world from flying apart?
“communist John Kerry”
BwaHaaaHaaaHaaa
On foriegn policy he is center right, just like Clinton. You must be stuck back in the 50s and wish McCarthy was still around.
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:01 pm“no where near what communist John Kerry said.”
LOL… Poor little VT; now she’s denying the obvious when the two quotes are both available to anyone who cares to read and listen. As usual, dear little VT is dead wrong and Bush did, in fact, use almost exactly the same language that Kerry used. Man, she’s getting desperate now, isn’t she?
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:02 pm#17:
Heard this great idea from a caller on Ed Shultz:
Congress to the president: “We will not impeach you, but when you are out of office, we will turn all records to the Justice dept. and put you, Cheney and others in jail.â€
Use that threat for negotiating the Iraq Bill.
Comment by goehl — May 2, 2007 @ 4:57 pm
goehl, I heard that today too — I thought it was a fine idea! Don’t you?
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:03 pmSometimes, we just have to think outside the box.
Synopsis of Articles of Impeachment Against Vice President Richard B. Cheney
Article II
The Vice President of the United States, Richard B. Cheney, has purposely manipulated the intelligence process to deceive the citizens and Congress of the United States about an alleged relationship between Iraq and al Qeada in order to justify the use of the U.S. Armed Forces against the nation of Iraq in a manner damaging to our national security interests.
(1) Despite all evidence to the contrary, the Vice President actively and systematically sought to deceive the citizens and the Congress of the United States about an alleged relationship between Iraq and al Qeada.
(2) Preceding the March 2003 invasion of Iraq the Vice President was fully informed that no credible evidence existed of a working relationship between Iraq and al Qeada, a fact articulated in several official documents.
The Vice President subverted the national security interests of the United States by setting the stage for the loss of more than 3,300 United States service members; the loss of 650,000 Iraqi citizens since the U.S. invasion; the loss of approximately $500 billion in war costs which has increased our federal debt; the loss of military readiness within the United States Armed Services due to overextension, lack of training and lack of equipment; the loss of United States credibility in world affairs; and the decades of likely blowback created by the invasion of Iraq.
EVIDENCE:
kucinich.house.gov/UploadedFiles/artII1A.pdf
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:03 pmkucinich.house.gov/UploadedFiles/artII1B.pdf
kucinich.house.gov/UploadedFiles/artII1C.pdf
kucinich.house.gov/UploadedFiles/artII1D.pdf
kucinich.house.gov/UploadedFiles/artII1E.pdf
kucinich.house.gov/UploadedFiles/artII1F.pdf
kucinich.house.gov/UploadedFiles/artII1G.pdf
kucinich.house.gov/UploadedFiles/artII1H.pdf
kucinich.house.gov/UploadedFiles/artII1I.pdf
kucinich.house.gov/UploadedFiles/artII2A.pdf
kucinich.house.gov/UploadedFiles/artII2B.pdf
kucinich.house.gov/UploadedFiles/artII2C.pdf
kucinich.house.gov/UploadedFiles/clo1.pdf
kucinich.house.gov/UploadedFiles/clo2.pdf
kucinich.house.gov/UploadedFiles/clo3.pdf
kucinich.house.gov/UploadedFiles/clo4.pdf
Unbelievable,
That bible is made up of a bunch of “stories” from thousands of years ago. And it’s all innuendo and metaphorical. I could interpret the bible any way I want to. And thats what people do. It’s been abused.
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:04 pmOne difference between the left and right is that the left doesn’t perch themselves as being morally superior. If the right didn’t do that, there wouldn’t be nearly as much attacking of their hypocracy. The left is full of hypocrites too. But the right really opens themselves up to scruteny with thier “values†and “moralsâ€.
Comment by ForTruth — May 2, 2007 @ 5:42 pm
are you kidding me ForTruth! the left claims to be moraly superior all the time.
the left is full of hypocrites. Look at Reid and Pelosi, at Diana Feinstein and their corruption.
please, or how about the whole left wing cry about freedom of speech, but they want to shut up anyone that dares speak against anything the left deems to be moral.
I guess you are not aware of the left wing efforts to not allow religious people to speak against homosexuality in their place of worship, eh?
please, the left is a huge joke. Yes, there are some misguided honest individuals, but for the most part, their leaders are corrupt and their followers are blind partisan fools. Not all, but most.
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:05 pm“yes keep telling yourself that extreme Islamists are wonderful people that want to live peacefully side by side by Jews, Christians, atheists, etc.
Comment by valiantthehater — May 2, 2007 @ 5:49 pm”
Prove anyone here has said THAT (hint: you can’t, because we haven’t).
We know that extremes in ANY religion, including your own, are dangerous. It’s why I wouldn’t want to live next door to you either, because you’re the kind of paranoid wackjob who will one day shoot at shadows in his livingroom, miss, and blow your neighbor’s kid’s head off…
If the terrorists are such an immediate threat here in the US, then why are our borders still unsecured nearly SIX years later? Hmmm? Riddle me that.
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:05 pmValient,
You weren’t even alive when Kerry came back from Nam, and did what he did. You only know what the ultra-right thinks about it.
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:06 pm“when to know you are speaking to a wacko communist….”
When to know you’re reading mindless partisan drivel — when it starts with a comment like this or when it’s authored by a certain individual.
“when they start referring to western nations as imperialist countries,”
Really, dear? All communists say this? And everyone who says this is a communist? Wow… what a revelation. You should write a book.
“when they claim there is no war on terror”
Dear heart, since there is, in fact, no “war on terror,” for reasons that have been described in full elsewhere by better men than I, forgive me if we conclude that once again, you’re spouting drivel.
“when they claim that the terrorists are the first world nations acting against third world nations.”
Really, dear? Who is saying that?
“freaking wackos….”
LOL…. If the shoe fits…
“yes keep telling yourself that extreme Islamists are wonderful people that want to live peacefully side by side by Jews, Christians, atheists, etc.”
Really, dear? And how are you defining “extreme Islamists?” And just who is saying that about them?
“wow! incredible that there is such wackyness out there.”
Well, since you are mostly just making shit up, I’m afraid that the “wackyness” [sic] is entirely internal. But hilarious, so please do continue.
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:07 pmComment by ForTruth
Dear god unbelievable is never wrong about anything… dont get her started…. she WONT stop….
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:07 pm“And, does your brain hurt from not ever using it?
Comment by unbelievable — May 2, 2007 @ 5:50 pm”
yes unbelieve,
Comment by valiantthehater — May 2, 2007 @ 6:00 pm
LOL
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:07 pmTo the right reasoning and scientific thought is “wacky†and “sillyâ€.
What is incredible is how treacherous they are and continue to be by saying those that want to intelligently fight the terrorism threat think terrorists want to be friendly neighbors with jews.
Keep it up republicans you are coving for Osama very well.. and the recruitment effort you are manning is doing wonders for him… keep it up…becaus someday the people of America is going to turn into a mob and then you will pay dearly…
Comment by Gerald Gibson Jr — May 2, 2007 @ 6:01 pm
is that what you keep telling yourself, that people on the right don’t believe in science? wow and you call yoursel intelligent, eh? stop sucking all the propaganda the left wing spoon feeds you and start thinking on your own, you wacko.
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:08 pmIf the terrorists are such an immediate threat here in the US, then why are our borders still unsecured nearly SIX years later? Hmmm? Riddle me that.
Comment by unbelievable
That riddle requires the simplist of logic… so it is beyond them… you got to think stone cold dead stupid to get across to these people.
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:08 pmPaulB,
reading comprehension not your forte, eh? along with education and reasoning, right?
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:09 pmSynopsis of Articles of Impeachment Against Vice President Richard B. Cheney
Article III
In his conduct while Vice President of the United States, Richard B. Cheney, in violation of his constitutional oath to faithfully execute the office of Vice President of the United States and, to the best of his ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States, and in violation of his constitutional duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed, has openly threatened aggression against the Republic of Iran absent any real threat to the United States, and done so with the United State’s proven capability to carry out such threats, thus undermining the national security of the United States.
(1) Despite no evidence that Iran has the intention or the capability of attacking the U.S. and despite the turmoil created by U.S. invasion of Iraq, the Vice President has openly threatened aggression against Iran.
(2) The Vice President, who repeatedly and falsely claimed to have had specific, detailed knowledge of Iraq’s alleged weapons of mass destruction capabilities, is no doubt fully aware of evidence that demonstrates Iran poses no real threat to the United States.
(3) The Vice President is fully aware of the actions taken by the United States toward Iran that are further destabilizing the world.
(4) In the last three years the Vice President has repeatedly threatened Iran. However, the Vice President is legally bound by the U.S. Constitution’s adherence to international law that prohibits threats of use of force. Article VI of the U.S. Constitution states, “… all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be supreme Law of the Land.” Article II, Section 4 of the U.N. Charter states, “All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independance of any state…” Article 51 lays out the only exception, “Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defence if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations…” Iran has not attacked the Untied States; therefore any threat against Iran by the United States is illegal.
The Vice President’s deception upon the citizens and Congress of the United States that enabled the failed U.S. invasion of Iraq forcibly altered the rules of diplomacy such that the Vice President’s recent belligerent actions toward Iran are destabilizing and counterproductive to the national security of the United States.
In all of this, Vice President Richard B. Cheney has acted in a manner contrary to his trust as Vice President, and subversive of constitutional government, to the prejudice of the cause of law and justice and the manifest injury of the people of the United States.
Wherefore Richard B. Cheney, by such conduct, warrants impeachment and trial, and removal from office.
EVIDENCE:
kucinich.house.gov/UploadedFiles/artIII1A.pdf
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:10 pmkucinich.house.gov/UploadedFiles/artIII1B.pdf
kucinich.house.gov/UploadedFiles/artIII1C.pdf
kucinich.house.gov/UploadedFiles/artIII1D.pdf
kucinich.house.gov/UploadedFiles/artIII2AC.pdf
kucinich.house.gov/UploadedFiles/artIII2B.pdf
kucinich.house.gov/UploadedFiles/artIII2AC.pdf
kucinich.house.gov/UploadedFiles/artIII3A.pdf
kucinich.house.gov/UploadedFiles/artIII3B.pdf
kucinich.house.gov/UploadedFiles/artIII3CE.pdf
kucinich.house.gov/UploadedFiles/artIII3D.pdf
kucinich.house.gov/UploadedFiles/artIII3CE.pdf
kucinich.house.gov/UploadedFiles/artIII4A.pdf
kucinich.house.gov/UploadedFiles/artIII4B.pdf
kucinich.house.gov/UploadedFiles/artIII4C.pdf
“Kerry smearing our troops after he came back from Vietnam and making up lies about them”
Since he did not do anything of the kind, you once again, and as usual, simply don’t have a point. Don’t you ever get tired of being wrong? Or of being caught in clumsy spin and lies, dear?
“Kerry meeting with American’s enemies during Vietnam also puts him in a completly different planet.”
Dear heart, the Nixon administration “met with American’s [sic] enemies” during Vietnam. In fact, Congresscritters and presidential administrations have been meeting with America’s enemies for as long as America has been a country. You really should get out more.
“Yes, Kerry who couldn’t win an election against a supposed idiot has accomplished more than Bush.”
Well, in this case, an individual doing absolutely nothing has accomplished more than Bush, given his record of catastrophic failure in everything he’s done, so it’s not particularly difficult.
“think before you type! your posts will come accross as being written by a smart individual.”
LOL… Dear heart, you really should consider your own advice. On the other hand, we get so much more amusement out of you this way.
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:11 pmsucking all the propaganda the left wing spoon feeds you and start thinking on your own, you wacko.
Comment by valiantthehater
I grew up in evangelical churches… I know what I am talking about.
I suppose you have not read about Kentuckys anti evolution “museum”?
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:11 pmunbelieve….
but I already live next door to you! hahahaha!!! better watch out….I the “wacko” religious “extremist” will come out to get you at night. BOO! careful now, careful my small minded, paranoid girl.
hey, how is that coming along that Kerry is smarter than Bush, but Kerry lost an election to Bush. how is your tiny brain processing this? let me know, if you are having issues, I can refer you to a friend of mine who is a psycholigists, he made a fortune out of wacky liberals like you who became clinically depressed when their “smart” Kerry lost. :)
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:12 pmValient,
I’ll keep an eye out for any suppression of free speech by the left. Thanks for giving me the heads up on that one. Pffft.
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:12 pm“stop sucking all the propaganda the left wing spoon feeds ”
right, it’s so much easier to suck your rhetoric directly from rush limpdick’s cock, correct valiant?
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:12 pm“reading comprehension not your forte, eh? along with education and reasoning, right?”
LOL…. Really, dear? Then it should be easy for you to provide examples, right?
Of course, given the fact that you insist that Bush’s comments were completely and totally different than Kerry’s, despite their marked similarity, I do have to question your credentials in this area. Ta-ta, snookums.
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:12 pmIf the terrorists are such an immediate threat here in the US, then why are our borders still unsecured nearly SIX years later? Hmmm? Riddle me that.
Comment by unbelievable
That riddle requires the simplist of logic… so it is beyond them… you got to think stone cold dead stupid to get across to these people.
Comment by Gerald Gibson Jr — May 2, 2007 @ 6:08 pm
are you Liberals as stupid as the things you put up on here? what the hell does not securing our border have with terrorist not being terrorists? wow!
who the hell cares that our politicians, yes including Bush have done an incredibly poor job at securing our borders, it doesn’t make terrorists to be less of a threat. duh, duh, duh…
liberalism=stupidity.
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:13 pm“hey, how is that coming along that Kerry is smarter than Bush, but Kerry lost an election to Bush.”
Well, dear, he was certainly assisted by morons like yourself, but the simple fact is that intelligence has absolutely nothing to do with winning elections.
What’s hilarious is that you have to use that example because you quite literally have nothing else to show!
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:14 pmGerald,
Thanks for the articles of impeachment stuff. It’s amazing TP won’t touch that.
If I didn’t know any better, I would start to think TP is a Hillary licker. Hey I’m left, but I wouldn’t lick Hillery.
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:14 pm“smart†John Kerry, who received worst grades in college than President Bush”
Valiantthehater
Setting aside your usage of “worst” here when talking about someone else’s intelligence…grades are not an indication of intelligence, they are an indication of knowledge, at best. College in of itself is not an indication of intelligence: are you really claiming that only college educated people are smart? your buddy george got into college because he was a yale legacy, that makes him smart? he got gentleman’s C’s that makes him smart?
you voted for bush twice, that makes you dumb.
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:14 pm“how is that coming along that Kerry is smarter than Bush, but Kerry lost an election to Bush. how is your tiny brain processing this?”
because morons voted for bush, and there are more morons in this country than intelligent people?
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:15 pm#46 Comment by valiantthehater — May 2, 2007 @ 5:49 pm
when to know you are speaking to a wacko communist….
when they start referring to western nations as imperialist countries, when they claim there is no war on terror, when they claim that the terrorists are the first world nations acting against third world nations.
freaking wackos….
yes keep telling yourself that extreme Islamists are wonderful people that want to live peacefully side by side by Jews, Christians, atheists, etc.
wow! incredible that there is such wackyness out there.
“WOW” Upside down this spells “MOM! Keep calling for your mama, sweetie, cause there is no one else out there that would care to save you. You are bare ass naked just like your emperor. You fool no one but the dwindling 30%. Talk about smelling desperation in your arguments. (You trolls used to at least try and sound reasonable.) Whew, the stench is really bad. It’s enough to stop me from laughing at your insanity.
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:15 pmsucking all the propaganda the left wing spoon feeds you and start thinking on your own, you wacko.
Comment by valiantthehater
I grew up in evangelical churches… I know what I am talking about.
I suppose you have not read about Kentuckys anti evolution “museum�
Comment by Gerald Gibson Jr — May 2, 2007 @ 6:11 pm
yes ggibson, and then, you woke up! it was all a dream. You are still one of those “terrible” evangelicals. Oh no, what shall you do?!
retard, not all right wingers believe that evolution is wrong, you moron, just like not all left wingers believe in evolution.
when’s the last time you opened up a book and read, or have you ever done this?
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:15 pmI was appalled by CNN’s coverage of Bush’s veto – and how it tried to smear the Democratic leadership by saying that the party was fractured. It was a very biased article.
Comment by unbelievable
I canceled my cable TV months ago – the fascist right wing media control was too “Orwellian” – was like watching the ‘teleprompt’.
The trolls here…. Do they seriously take the news/LIES at face value? Or are they merely protecting their republican ‘values’ (aka greed) and going along with the propaganda?
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:15 pmOthers are probably here as they get paid a few cents a post.
“stop sucking all the propaganda the left wing spoon feeds you and start thinking on your own, you wacko.”
Oh, the irony…. No further comment required….
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:16 pm“Kerry smearing our troops after he came back from Vietnam and making up lies about them puts him in a complete different level than President bush, you are right.”
Smear? I SAW the footage. He was DEFENDING them against unnecessary war, as he continues to do so today. That makes him a HERO, as much as it hurts your need to vilify a man who served his country, while whining that liberals spit on Vietnam vets. That, dear boy, is the definition of hypocrisy. No wonder you’re so fond of the word…
“Kerry meeting with American’s enemies during Vietnam also puts him in a completly different planet.”
Condi went to Syria. I haven’t seen you bash that…
(hint: Hypocrisy).
“Yes, Kerry who couldn’t win an election against a supposed idiot has accomplished more than Bush.”
Well, when you let idiots vote, they are bound to pick the bigger idiot… LOL
“Unbelieve, if Kerry is so much smarter than Bush, why couldn’t he beat him, why isn’t Kerry our President? ”
What a ridiculous question. You do know that the Presidential election in this country isn’t about voting for who is smarter, who is more honorable, or who would make the Founding Fathers most proud by fighting for our country (instead of dodging it) and upholding the Constitution, silly boy.
It’s about how much fear against a handful of boogeymen painted in Wizard of Oz gallantry, and against “them homersexuals” that Rove was able to craft.
There have also been valid questions about whether or not he actually won in the first place. And at the time, I voted for him (2000). I now regret that for obvious reasons to anyone who uses their brain.
“What does it make you if you are beaten by what you called a chimp, and idiot? I much bigger idiot.”
I’m an Independent, silly boy.
“think before you type! your posts will come accross as being written by a smart individual.
Comment by valiantthehater — May 2, 2007 @ 6:00 pm”
Too bad you cannot recognize, much less comprehend intellect in the first place. LOL
But I see you totally ignored my post on their grades. Why is that?
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:16 pmPaulB,
YAWN….you are boring me child. try something better kid.
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:16 pmMan, VT is definitely shrill today, isn’t she? She’s not even remotely trying to make sense, much less put together a coherent thought or post. Poor thing…. Maybe we should take up a collection to send her off on a brief vacation?
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:17 pmYes, Kerry who couldn’t win an election against a supposed idiot has accomplished more than Bush.
Unbelieve, if Kerry is so much smarter than Bush, why couldn’t he beat him, why isn’t Kerry our President? -V V unhinged
Gore won the popular vote the first time. The popular vote was still fairly close last time even with the chicanery. What bothers me about this post is you see one as beating the other even they attended the same school and even the same College Frat Society.
What exactly has been accomplished under this Admin V V? Fiscal responsibility? Deficits? Cheap oil? What? Weaned off foreign oil?
The fact is you voted for a ‘team’ based on media taught bias and not for America as a whole. You should not foist your religion upon others, the moral problem today is what was SUPPOSED to bring BACK integrity to our government. This current situation is a product of such faulty “my team” ideology when applied, thru media, to politics.
You are a ‘face-painters’ Yes, I know your type, all wacked out and drunk at the stadium urinating in public when you lose and vomiting everywhere else when you win. They should lock you slopeheaded face painters up on site!
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:17 pm#78 Comment by ForTruth — May 2, 2007 @ 6:14 pm
“If I didn’t know any better, I would start to think TP is a Hillary licker. Hey I’m left, but I wouldn’t lick Hillery.”
Well, who would you lick if it is Hillary vs Thompson or one of the other great neocon wannabes?
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:18 pmNow Valient,
You appear to be resorting to name-calling. It’s a tell tale sign of your debate going down in flames.
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:18 pm“what the hell does not securing our border have with terrorist not being terrorists? wow!”
ROFL…. And you have the chutzpah to talk about my reading comprehension? Dear heart, he wasn’t talking about “terrorists not being terrorists.” He was talking about just how big a threat terrorists actually are to those of us in the U.S. Do try to keep up, won’t you?
“who the hell cares that our politicians, yes including Bush have done an incredibly poor job at securing our borders, it doesn’t make terrorists to be less of a threat. duh, duh, duh…”
ROFL…. Oh my … I don’t even know where to begin with this bit of stupidity. I’ll just let it stand without comment….
“liberalism=stupidity.”
Coming from you, dear, we’ll take that as a compliment.
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:19 pm“You appear to be resorting to name-calling”
When has she not?
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:20 pmwho the hell cares that our politicians, yes including Bush have done an incredibly poor job at securing our borders, it doesn’t make terrorists to be less of a threat. duh, duh, duh…
liberalism=stupidity.
Comment by valiantthehater
What? That made no sense.
Security starts with defense… SOME people understand this. SOME people have the brains to study history and things like “The Art of War” …. SOME others have loud mouths and thats about it.
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:20 pm“YAWN….you are boring me child. try something better kid.”
ROFL… Man, talk about lame! Sorry, VT, but I can’t return the compliment. I’m absolutely loving watching your meltdown. Now where did I put that popcorn?
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:21 pm“I could interpret the bible any way I want to. And thats what people do. It’s been abused.
Comment by ForTruth — May 2, 2007 @ 6:04 pm”
I don’t know how else you interpret:
Psalms 137:9 Here god commands that infants should be “dashed upon the rocksâ€.
I know what you’re saying, but I think it’s easy to abuse it when it’s an abusive book in the first place…
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:21 pm“Kerry meeting with American’s enemies during Vietnam also puts him in a completly different planet.â€
Condi went to Syria. I haven’t seen you bash that…
Comment by unbelievable — May 2, 2007 @ 6:16 pm
retard, we are not at war with Syria. Wow…you keep on proving that liberalism=stupidity.
and guess what, Condi is the top ambassador of the United States right now! John Kerry wasn’t. Pelosi is not an ambassador either.
are you so stupid, so brainwashed by the left that you can’t see the difference?
Condi was sent by the United States, Pelosi and Kerry went on their own.
and we were at war with the Viet-Cong, we are not at war with Syria.
and regardless, say your “logic” was right, two wrongs don’t make a right little one.
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:21 pmIf I didn’t know any better, I would start to think TP is a Hillary licker. Hey I’m left, but I wouldn’t lick Hillery.
Comment by ForTruth
Some of the trolls are always going on about how this site is a secret pro Hillary site….maybe they are correct about that… not that I care… I am hear to educate and change peoples minds and be educated by others.
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:22 pmComment by Merlin
I really haven’t made up my mind who I would lick. I know who I won’t lick.
The one I can think of licking currently is Jessica Alba. Heh.
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:22 pmROFL… Man, talk about lame! Sorry, VT, but I can’t return the compliment. I’m absolutely loving watching your meltdown. Now where did I put that popcorn?
Comment by PaulB — May 2, 2007 @ 6:21 pm
YAWN, still quite boring. Please give me a mental challenge or go play in the sandbox.
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:22 pm#84 Comment by PaulB — May 2, 2007 @ 6:16 pm
“stop sucking all the propaganda the left wing spoon feeds you and start thinking on your own, you wacko.â€
Oh, the irony…. No further comment required….
BwaHaaaHaaaHaaaHaaa
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:22 pmMan, this is fricking awesome. I can’t wait to see what VT writes next. I haven’t had this much fun since I watched “Animal House.”
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:23 pmretard, not all right wingers believe that evolution is wrong, you moron, just like not all left wingers believe in evolution.
when’s the last time you opened up a book and read, or have you ever done this?
Comment by valiantthehater
Not all germans believed in burning the jews, but their silence had the same out come as being a jew killing nazi now didnt it? I know very kind evangelicals that would NEVER kill another human being… but they have kept quite as America murdered Iraqis and our own soldiers.
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:23 pmPaul,
More like taking up a collection to send her to rehab.
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:23 pmComing from you, dear, we’ll take that as a compliment.
Comment by PaulB — May 2, 2007 @ 6:19 pm
is this the best you got, kid? you said this to 10 different people you disagreed with yesterday.
please try something new.
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:24 pm“I suppose you have not read about Kentuckys anti evolution “museumâ€?
Comment by Gerald Gibson Jr — May 2, 2007 @ 6:11 pm”
I saw that… Talk about delusion! It would be funny if it weren’t so scary.
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:24 pm“retard, we are not at war with Syria. Wow…you keep on proving that liberalism=stupidity.” ahhhhh valiant we cut off diplomatic relations with syria YEARS ago.
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:28 pmliberalism=stupidity.
Comment by valiantthehater
Umm, George graduated from the Eastern Ivey League establishment
V V…silly rabbit. Thats why we call it neo-liberalism.
YAWN, still quite boring. Please give me a mental challenge or go play in the sandbox.Comment by valiantthehater
Okay, fine. Then, could you please, list all the achievements of the current administration: (not including bicycle and segway incidents)
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:28 pm#90 Comment by ForTruth — May 2, 2007 @ 6:18 pm
Now Valient,
You appear to be resorting to name-calling. It’s a tell tale sign of your debate going down in flames.
No, No, For Truth, you’re mistaken! This is “valiantthehater” My sweetie, Venus would never resort to these terrible things the hater is saying! (Would you, sweetie? Tell those nasty progs you wouldn’t!)
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:28 pmPsalms 137:9 Here god commands that infants should be “dashed upon the rocksâ€.
I know what you’re saying, but I think it’s easy to abuse it when it’s an abusive book in the first place…
Comment by unbelievable
The old testament was written by taliban minded people… hell the “israelites” killed all men, women, and children in city after city after city … until they finally turned around and said “Look at this wonderful land! And no one is living here!! God promised this land to us!” .. Kinda makes you wonder who was really the bad guy the egyptians or them?
But Jesus sings a different toon…. as you and I have already discussed there are two different Jesus “voices” in the bible… the good one has some very good messages to teach people…
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:28 pmFace-painter pundits.
I likes dat.
Like putting lipstick on a pig except it’s an sports fanatic facepaint idiot doing Oreillys job.
Oreilly aint nothing but a ‘face-painting’ pundit
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:31 pm“better watch out….I the “wacko†religious “extremist†will come out to get you at night. BOO! careful now, careful my small minded, paranoid girl. ”
I sleep, like a baby, with the doors of my house unlocked… You?
“hey, how is that coming along that Kerry is smarter than Bush, but Kerry lost an election to Bush. how is your tiny brain processing this?”
I already answered your question, while you keep dodging mine.
At least I have a brain….
“I can refer you to a friend of mine who is a psycholigists”
Sure you do, you can’t even spell it… LOL
“he made a fortune out of wacky liberals like you who became clinically depressed when their “smart†Kerry lost. :)
Comment by valiantthehater — May 2, 2007 @ 6:12 pm”
Good thing you’re not a “psycholigists”… I’m not depressed. Atheism innoculates me against that tendancy that keeps you neocons on valium and vodka cocktails, because I do not feel like a manipulated puppet who is dependent upon supernatural nonsense to give me a purpose in life. When you’re a thinker living in context of reality, depression isn’t an option…
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:33 pmGore won the popular vote the first time.
Null and Void
nope, that is a myth. bush won the popular vote. Regardless, if it wass true that Al Gore by a tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny slim margin the popular vote, Bush won the electoral college. It wouldn’t be the first time that a President lost the popular vote, but won the electoral college and I can assure you it won’t be the last.
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:34 pmGood thing you’re not a “psycholigistsâ€â€¦ I’m not depressed. Atheism innoculates me against that tendancy that keeps you neocons on valium and vodka cocktails, because I do not feel like a manipulated puppet who is dependent upon supernatural nonsense to give me a purpose in life. When you’re a thinker living in context of reality, depression isn’t an option…
Comment by unbelievable
Bravo. You may be a harded headed one unbelievable but I am glad you are not on their side…
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:35 pm“are you Liberals as stupid as the things you put up on here? what the hell does not securing our border have with terrorist not being terrorists? wow! ”
Do you have a mental disease or handicap? I don’t wanna point out your double-digit IQ irrationality if you’re mentally retarded or something…
“who the hell cares that our politicians, yes including Bush have done an incredibly poor job at securing our borders,”
The families and friends of 9/11, and teh future friends and families of the next 9/11? Hello…
“it doesn’t make terrorists to be less of a threat. duh, duh, duh…”
You can’t control the threat, but you CAN control the defense against it, silly boy. So, yes, our unsecured borders to make it MUCH easier for them to attack us again.
“liberalism=stupidity.
Comment by valiantthehater — May 2, 2007 @ 6:13 pm”
Considering there isn’t really a ‘liberalism’ theory, as liberals come in a variety of flavors, you wave your ignorance like a flag…
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:37 pmnope, that is a myth. bush won the popular vote.
Comment by valiantthehater
What a blatant liar. The truth to that is easy to see …just google it.
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:39 pm“just like not all left wingers believe in evolution. ”
It’s not a belief system. Science goes on facts…
“when’s the last time you opened up a book and read, or have you ever done this?
Comment by valiantthehater — May 2, 2007 @ 6:15 pm”
You aren’t exactly one to make such a claim, considering that you think that people “believe in” Evolution. LOL. That’s hilarious….
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:41 pm“Bush won the electoral college.” because the whack job katherine harris in florida didn’t think it was important to have a revote in broward county. and we ALL know what her loyalty got her in her run for the Senate…the GOP wouldn’t endorse her
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:42 pm“I canceled my cable TV months ago – the fascist right wing media control was too “Orwellian†– was like watching the ‘teleprompt’.”
I saw the ‘news’ on their website which used to be less biased than their television broadcasts because it was something that you had to READ :)
“The trolls here…. Do they seriously take the news/LIES at face value? Or are they merely protecting their republican ‘values’ (aka greed) and going along with the propaganda?
Others are probably here as they get paid a few cents a post.
Comment by goehl — May 2, 2007 @ 6:15 pm”
Probably some of all three, plus those who are mentally damaged, willfully ignorance, and, apparently, just unable to see the giant elephant in the room that keeps pooping in their chair… :D
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:44 pmnope, that is a myth. bush won the popular vote. Regardless, if it wass true that Al Gore by a tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny slim margin the popular vote, Bush won the electoral college. It wouldn’t be the first time that a President lost the popular vote, but won the electoral college and I can assure you it won’t be the last.
Comment by valiantthehater
No, he didn’t. http://www.fec.gov/pubrec/fe2000/prespop.htm
Gore got 48.38% Bush 47.87%
Anyway thats what makes what FOX news and the pundits, and their trolls, so nutty…lack of facts =)
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:45 pmDubya is one stupid SOB…but the idiots who support him and make excuses for them are worthless individuals.
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:45 pm“retard, we are not at war with Syria.”
You called tehm the enemy when Nancy Pelosi visited.
Make up your silly little mind…
“and guess what, Condi is the top ambassador of the United States right now! John Kerry wasn’t. Pelosi is not an ambassador either.”
What? Do you suffer from the inability to pay attention longer than a fiscal quarter?
“are you so stupid, so brainwashed by the left that you can’t see the difference? ”
I’m a former conservative. When I started thinking for myself, I stopped being a conservative. There was no brainwashing, since I read conservative opinion.
You’re so silly…
“Condi was sent by the United States, Pelosi and Kerry went on their own.”
Not exactly… But if, as you claim Syria isn’t our enemy, then what difference does it make?
“and we were at war with the Viet-Cong, we are not at war with Syria.”
Nixon spoke to them – are you gonna bash him now?
“and regardless, say your “logic†was right, two wrongs don’t make a right little one.
Comment by valiantthehater — May 2, 2007 @ 6:21 pm”
But three lefts do make a right (as in correct), and it seems that we have more than just three…. LOL
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:49 pm“But Jesus sings a different toon…. as you and I have already discussed there are two different Jesus “voices†in the bible… the good one has some very good messages to teach people…
Comment by Gerald Gibson Jr — May 2, 2007 @ 6:28 pm’
Then either Jesus was bipolar, or he wasn’t real.
If it takes wading through all that blood and violence to get to those kernels of ‘good’, it’s hard to believe it’s worth the trip… Especially when Jesus’s ‘good’ stuff is just common sense and human decency in the first place – and, with free-thought, there is no saviour required. :D
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:54 pmValient,
YOu have been de-bunked yet again. Does the FEC lie?
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:57 pmAnd for those who still have some humanity, let them peruse the Gospel according to Thomas or, for that matter, Thomas Jefferson’s Bible.
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:58 pmYAWN….you are boring me child. try something better kid.
Comment by valiantthehater — May 2, 2007 @ 6:16 pm
Well then you know how we all feel reading your posts. You are more tiresome today than usual. I didn’t really think that was possible.
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:59 pmMan, VT is definitely shrill today, isn’t she? She’s not even remotely trying to make sense, much less put together a coherent thought or post. Poor thing…. Maybe we should take up a collection to send her off on a brief vacation?
Comment by PaulB — May 2, 2007 @ 6:17 pm
She must have stockpiled some of that “cold medicine” she was babbling about yesterday. She better save some for another day I think.
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:01 pmI see by the comments on this thread that there remains some confusion over the 2000 election. Let me clear it up once and for all.
Bush won the electoral vote in 2000. Had the US Supreme Court allowed the recount in Florida, Bush would’ve won. The liberal NY Times confirmed this as did most of the agencies and organizations that did follow-up recounts. Bush won according to the 2000 election rules.
So now you know.
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:01 pmValiant Venus, sweetie,
I’ve really become disillusioned with you today. I am beginning to think that there is another side to you. Who is this “valiantthehater” person? Seems quite nasty, really, if you ask me. I really have to know… its our “relationship” that is at stake here.
So, I’ve been looking at all your posts, and you know what? I don’t believe you really are the 24 year old beautiful woman all these progs make you out to be. I was fooled! Boo Hoo. (Never mind those that want you to gain a few pounds, I always thought. You were just perfect for me just as anorexic as you were.)
Sigh… I now know the truth. I see you with new eyes, as they say. And I can’t say I like what I see.
The truth is out! You are really an overweight, 54ish old man who chainsmokes Camels while sitting in front of two computers while acting like a troll.
Now appearance isn’t everything to me, you know. But listen, trying to cover your rather large bald spot by combing your hair over from the side? This is too much. Oh, and you might want to clean your glasses more often, dirty ones strain the eyes. BTW. How DO you see through those “coke bottles” when they are so dirty anyway? Doesn’t it make your words come out screwy?
Well, maybe all is not lost, I still admire all those terribly smart things you write. So strong, intellegent and masculine! Really much better than some prissy little no nothing 24 year old! (Now that I think about it!) Maybe we can try again, sweetie. What do you say?
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:02 pmI anxiously await your reply…
The one I can think of licking currently is Jessica Alba. Heh.
Comment by ForTruth — May 2, 2007 @ 6:22 pm
Now that must be off topic because I’m pretty sure Je3ssica Alba isn’t running.
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:05 pm“You may be a harded headed one unbelievable but I am glad you are not on their side…
Comment by Gerald Gibson Jr — May 2, 2007 @ 6:35 pm”
Hard headed? More like realistic, and before I say anything, certain of my opinion because I’ve researched it and thought about it.
Their side was, well, depressing :)
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:09 pmNow that must be off topic because I’m pretty sure Je3ssica Alba isn’t running.
Comment by Shane
Not until ForTruth tries to lick her. :D
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:09 pm“let them peruse the Gospel according to Thomas or, for that matter,”
That Jesus was definitely the best version in print :)
“Thomas Jefferson’s Bible.
Comment by Cassandra — May 2, 2007 @ 6:58 pm”
The U.S. Constitution?
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:11 pmI see by the comments on this thread that there remains some confusion over the 2000 election. Let me clear it up once and for all. Comment by muckdog — May 2, 2007 @ 7:01 pm
How can a confused st*pid troll like you clear anything up? Jake*ss?
Bush won the electoral vote in 2000. Comment by muckdog — May 2, 2007 @ 7:01 pm
Through electioneering, not through getting elected. Not the same thing. You know, the head of Iran also won the “electoral vote”, but some would argue that isn’t a fully democratic victory – right?
Had the US Supreme Court allowed the recount in Florida, Bush would’ve won. Comment by muckdog — May 2, 2007 @ 7:01 pm
Not true.
The liberal NY Times confirmed this as did most of the agencies and organizations that did follow-up recounts. Bush won according to the 2000 election rules. So now you know. Comment by muckdog — May 2, 2007 @ 7:01 pm
David Brooks doesn’t count. The NYTimes article showed the opposite in fact – you compulsive r*t*rded liar.
So there muckdog, it’s settled. Bush lost the popular vote in the US, and with a statewide recount in Florida, he would have lost the electoral vote. He *stole* the election by using the “court-system”, the thing you whiny conservatives always claim everyone’s doing to you!
Loser!
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:11 pmNot until ForTruth tries to lick her. :D
Comment by Zooey
Excellent….
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:12 pmMerlin you’re turning me on, stop it.
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:14 pmnope, that is a myth. bush won the popular vote. Regardless, if it wass true that Al Gore by a tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny slim margin the popular vote, Bush won the electoral college. It wouldn’t be the first time that a President lost the popular vote, but won the electoral college and I can assure you it won’t be the last. Comment by valiantthehater — May 2, 2007 @ 6:34 pm
Poor st*pid dum bass! You actually believe Bush won the popular vote in 2000? St*pid child, you can have your own *opinion*, but you can’t have your own *facts*. The election and subsequent recount showed that Bush lost both the popular and electoral vote – had the RECOUNT REQUIRED BY LAW occurred in Florida.
As for that *slim* margin, you mean a HALF MILLION PEOPLE? Yeah, slim indeed! Maybe for someone who’s head is as FAT as YOURS!
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:14 pm#122 Comment by unbelievable — May 2, 2007 @ 6:54 pm
If it takes wading through all that blood and violence to get to those kernels of ‘good’, it’s hard to believe it’s worth the trip… Especially when Jesus’s ‘good’ stuff is just common sense and human decency in the first place – and, with free-thought, there is no saviour required. :D
Oh, oh! Better duck, unbelievable, here come the evangelical right wing trolls.
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:14 pmI’m a secular Humanist by the way.
Excellent….
Comment by ForTruth
Sorry, I saw an opportunity and took it. Everyone goes under the bus at some point. :D
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:16 pmWhile Bush has a long string of failures in Iraq the American people have failed to hold Bush accountable for those failures, apparently looking to sweep Iraq under the rug so they could get back to watching reality TV shows. But things haven’t worked out so well for the American people and their wish for Iraq to go away. 80 or more Americans killed every month has been the true reality and a huge roadblock sweeping Iraq under that rug. Forced to finally focus on Iraq, the American people are belatedly demanding a new policy. And now is not the time to go soft on demanding that new policy.
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:16 pmPaul,
More like taking up a collection to send her to rehab.
Comment by ForTruth — May 2, 2007 @ 6:23 pm
Liberals! I’d prefer my money was used to buy her more drugs!
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:17 pmis this the best you got, kid? you said this to 10 different people you disagreed with yesterday.
please try something new.
Comment by valiantthehater — May 2, 2007 @ 6:24 pm
No, dear, that was you. Poor thing.
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:18 pm“So now you know.
Comment by muckdog — May 2, 2007 @ 7:01 pm”
Nope. You just gave your regurgitated opinion without offering facts or a logic trail.
Actually, if a full re-count had occurred, according to the New York Times (this is called a source), Gore won Florida by 115 votes.
And here’s a link to an INDEPENDENT source:
http://www.bushwatch.com/gorebush.htm
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:20 pm#133 Comment by ValiantVenusGrewFromUranus — May 2, 2007 @
Look VVGFU, I don’t mind your other profanity but now you’ve gone to far! Dav*d Br**ks? Dav*d Br**ks? This kind of filth is not acceptible here on TP. I’m writing to TP to have you banned!
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:21 pm#138 Comment by Zooey — May 2, 2007 @ 7:16 pm
Sorry, I saw an opportunity and took it. Everyone goes under the bus at some point. :D
Only if you work for neocons like BushCo.
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:25 pmInteresting… some remarks are missing. I didn’t know that this site edited their comments section.
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:26 pmmuckdog: “Bush won the electoral vote in 2000. Had the US Supreme Court allowed the recount in Florida, Bush would’ve won. The liberal NY Times confirmed this as did most of the agencies and organizations that did follow-up recounts.”
If you would take the time to read the actual results of the media consortium’s report, you would find that you are incorrect. The NYT didn’t confirm anything. What they did was distort the findings of the report as did most of the mainstream media which you call “liberal.” What the report showed was that if all the votes in Florida had been recounted as the Florida Supreme court rulled, Gore would have won under ANY counting standard. Go read the report yourself. Scroll down to the table that says “Statewide…” You can find the report here: http://www.aei.org/ docLib/ 20040526_KeatingPaper.pdf
After you read the actual results, please ask yourself this question: how “liberal” IS the NYT if it published articles distorting the findings of the media consortium?
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:27 pmNot until ForTruth tries to lick her. :D
Comment by Zooey — May 2, 2007 @ 7:09
That thar is funny, I don’t care who ya argh!
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:27 pmunbelievable, don’t forget 2004, where 2 Ohio election officials have already been SENTENCED for rigging the recount.
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:29 pm“is this the best you got, kid? you said this to 10 different people you disagreed with yesterday.”
ROFL…. Making shit up again, dear? Can you really not think of any good comebacks? Poor thing.
“please try something new.”
Dear heart, when the classic tactics work so well, as witness your meltdown on this and the other thread where I had fun with you, why should I change them?
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:30 pmExcellent….
Comment by ForTruth
Sorry, I saw an opportunity and took it. Everyone goes under the bus at some point. :D
Comment by Zooey — May 2, 2007 @ 7:16 pm
I think ForTruth liked it … he’s probably still dreaming of Jessica though.
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:30 pm“Oh, oh! Better duck, unbelievable, here come the evangelical right wing trolls.
I’m a secular Humanist by the way.
Comment by Merlin — May 2, 2007 @ 7:14 pm”
You know, it’s funny, but most of them won’t debate their religion with me anymore (all I do is quote the Bible, which is never in their favor, and reality).
If anyone challenges me anymore, it’s the liberal Christians who I consider a completely different group of people who basically hinge their ideology upon about 40-50 verses in the entire bible and discard the rest. They challenge me over sematics, really – because they oddly continue to wrap themselves in the same title as the traditional Christians, and wish to defend it. I
When I taught my class about the technologically advanced architecture of the “godless” Europeans, I found that calling them “Secular Humanists” didn’t even get a twitch out of any of the Jesus Freaks. But mention that the Russians had museums of Atheism, (which seems odd to me, because how to you set up a museum that’s simply a rejection of another ideology?), and a couple of them started with the “evil” nonsense… :D
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:33 pmSorry, here’s the correct link to find the results of the media consortium report on the Florida election in 2000:
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:34 pmhttp://www.aei.org/docLib/20040526_KeatingPaper.pdf
“YAWN, still quite boring.”
LOL… And yet, here you are, responding to my every post. Gotta love it.
“Please give me a mental challenge or go play in the sandbox.”
Sorry, dear, but I’m afraid that will have to wait for another day. I’m having too much fun watching you come apart at the seams and posting some incredibly stupid shit, including that jaw-dropping comment that Bush won the popular vote in the 2000 election! It’s rare to see such idiocy so proudly and prominently displayed. Congratulations, dear.
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:35 pm“I’m writing to TP to have you banned!
Comment by Merlin — May 2, 2007 @ 7:21 pm”
LOL
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:35 pmunbelievable, you have also provided priceless quotes from Hitler on why and how he was a good christian. Thanks again.
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:37 pmInteresting… some remarks are missing. I didn’t know that this site edited their comments section.
Comment by PaulB — May 2, 2007 @ 7:26 pm
I’m not sure they do. I think it it the server or the program or some such thing. A bunch of my comments have simply not showed up. There was no rhyme nor reason. A few weeks ago I waited a while and my post did not appear, so I posted again. Still nothing. So, again, this all over about 30 minutes or so. And then poof, all 3 duplicate posts showed up. I now write everything in a word processor and cut and paste, since I write lots of words and hate to rewrite and try to remember the brilliant things that are now lost to digital heaven.
Anybody know the real story here?
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:38 pm“Interesting… some remarks are missing. I didn’t know that this site edited their comments section.
Comment by PaulB — May 2, 2007 @ 7:26 pm”
TP hasn’t been very forthcoming with the reasons for issues, but there are several reasons posts either get eaten, deleted, or just disappear, to only reappear after they’ve become second page news…
Posting, some days, is a pot shot as to whether or not it will “stick”, and as a result, we see more trolls and fewer regulars these days…
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:39 pmOnly if you work for neocons like BushCo.
Comment by Merlin
Their turn is coming….
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:40 pm“unbelievable, don’t forget 2004, where 2 Ohio election officials have already been SENTENCED for rigging the recount.
Comment by ValiantVenusGrewFromUranus — May 2, 2007 @ 7:29 pm”
I didn’t know that anyone had been sentenced for this… Good! The evidence is pretty obvious that they stole 2004 in Ohio, but considering how they’ve been allowed to get away with their chicanery for six years, I didn’t expect anyone would get caught. I’ll have to go google it and catch up.
Thanks for the info! :D
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:44 pmI think ForTruth liked it … he’s probably still dreaming of Jessica though.
Comment by Shane
Yes……and, yes. :D
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:44 pmThen either Jesus was bipolar, or he wasn’t real.
Comment by unbelievable
OR he was only partially qouted correctly.
Or when the bible was being put together by the Romans they influenced the meanings…
Or when the originals that knew Jesus were retelling his words they got more and more distorted from person to person…
You seem to have proven to yourself only one possibility and really dont care about the “reality” near as much as you claim… or else you wouldnt attempt to tell yourself and everyone else that you got it all figured out… no one does.
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:45 pm“Thanks again.
Comment by Bluedog49 — May 2, 2007 @ 7:37 pm”
Oh, it was MY pleasure ;D
I’ll be happy to do it again for Daryll. Haven’t seen him in a while. I guess he’s been busy ‘converting’ all those gay people… LOL
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:46 pmBush won the electoral vote in 2000. Had the US Supreme Court allowed the recount in Florida, Bush would’ve won. The liberal NY Times confirmed this as did most of the agencies and organizations that did follow-up recounts. Bush won according to the 2000 election rules.
So now you know.
Comment by muckdog
Post the link.
I have seen people say this several times and EVERY time they post the link to NYTimes it says the exact opposite…
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:47 pmLet’s see, the Bush cultist says “liberalism = stupidity.”
But oh, oh, the Father of our country, George Washington said this: “As mankind becomes more liberal they will be more apt to allow that all those who conduct themselves as worthy members of the community are equally entitled to the protection of civil government. I hope ever to see America among the foremost nations in examples of justice and liberality.”
OK, Bush cultist, you go with Leo Strauss. We’ll take George Washington.
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:48 pm#151 Comment by unbelievable — May 2, 2007 @ 7:33 pm
“I found that calling them “Secular Humanists†didn’t even get a twitch out of any of the Jesus Freaks.”
That is interesting! The leaders like Dobson specifically preach that the absolute worst is secular Humanism!. Worse than ‘athesiam” as Humanism really has a “belief.” It argues for multiculturalism for instance, which is the anethma of these frightened evangelicals. Humanists are truly organized and are strong activists for all the things that scares the beJesus out of them. Were this 1600 we would be hunted down and burned at the stake.
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:50 pm“OR he was only partially qouted correctly.”
Maybe the ‘evil’ stuff is correct then? And how do you tell? Better to just think for yourself, frankly…
“Or when the bible was being put together by the Romans they influenced the meanings…”
That’s an argument against the bible, because if the Romans influenced it, then so did all the people who had their hand in writing and translating it…
“Or when the originals that knew Jesus were retelling his words they got more and more distorted from person to person…”
Another reason to not trust ANY of it.
Occum’s Razor suggests it’s just heresay. And I see no proof to the contrary…
“You seem to have proven to yourself only one possibility and really dont care about the “reality†near as much as you claim… or else you wouldnt attempt to tell yourself and everyone else that you got it all figured out… no one does.
Comment by Gerald Gibson Jr — May 2, 2007 @ 7:45 pm”
Oh, calm down… I didn’t say I had it all figured out. But, the more and more I study it, the more and more obvious it becomes that Jesus wasn’t even a real person – simply a means for controlling people.
I find it really funny when you guys insult me for rejecting it with conviction, with your absolute certainity that you are right… LOL.
Seriously, Gerald – either argue the merits of it or don’t – but when you resort to making it personal, and insulting me, it looks like you aren’t able to do anything else.
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:55 pmThat is interesting! The leaders like Dobson specifically preach that the absolute worst is secular Humanism!. Worse than ‘athesiam†as Humanism really has a “belief.†Comment by Merlin — May 2, 2007 @ 7:50 pm
That’s what valiant venus says as well. It’s how you know she’s a REAL ReLiGEiouSO Fanatic freak…
It argues for multiculturalism for instance, which is the anethma of these frightened evangelicals. Humanists are truly organized and are strong activists for all the things that scares the beJesus out of them. Were this 1600 we would be hunted down and burned at the stake. Comment by Merlin — May 2, 2007 @ 7:50 pm
Yeah, then you have the really f*cked up ones like Venus, that’s an Evangelical that also claims to be a Conservative Jew – at the same time! Talk about f*cked in the head!
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:58 pm“OK, Bush cultist, you go with Leo Strauss. We’ll take George Washington.
Comment by Bluedog49 — May 2, 2007 @ 7:48 pm”
I love it! :)
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:58 pm“Humanists are truly organized and are strong activists for all the things that scares the beJesus out of them. Were this 1600 we would be hunted down and burned at the stake.
Comment by Merlin — May 2, 2007 @ 7:50 pm”
Considering the way they reject progress, I figure you’ve got a couple centuries longer before they find out (that’s about how long the word Atheist has been associated with negativity to them)… :)
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:01 pm“Yeah, then you have the really f*cked up ones like Venus, that’s an Evangelical that also claims to be a Conservative Jew – at the same time! Talk about f*cked in the head!
Comment by ValiantVenusGrewFromUranus — May 2, 2007 @ 7:58 pm”
MA told me that “she” also ‘believes in’ Evolution… LOL
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:04 pmOh, calm down… I didn’t say I had it all figured out. But, the more and more I study it, the more and more obvious it becomes that Jesus wasn’t even a real person – simply a means for controlling people. Comment by unbelievable — May 2, 2007 @ 7:55 pm
The question isn’t whether Jesus was a real person, but whether Jesus really said what’s attributed to him. Most of the writings that supposedly derive from his dictation, date to the second century after his death. Hardly the kind of “authoritative” material one would hope to found an historical account on.
Were you aware that of the THOUSANDS of copies of manuscripts that have survived from that early Christian era – there are no two copies anywhere in the bunch that are identical to each other?
I find it really funny when you guys insult me for rejecting it with conviction, with your absolute certainity that you are right… LOL. Comment by unbelievable — May 2, 2007 @ 7:55 pm
Not me, anyone with your intellect I won’t reject – no matter whether we agree or not – I ALWAYS listen ;)
Seriously, Gerald – either argue the merits of it or don’t – but when you resort to making it personal, and insulting me, it looks like you aren’t able to do anything else. Comment by unbelievable — May 2, 2007 @ 7:55 pm
Well, it can be a sensitive issue for people – and the skin is naturally thin where spirituality and death are involved for most of us.
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:04 pm#161 Comment by Gerald Gibson Jr — May 2, 2007 @ 7:45 pm
You opined:
You seem to have proven to yourself only one possibility and really dont care about the “reality†near as much as you claim… or else you wouldnt attempt to tell yourself and everyone else that you got it all figured out… no one does.
What is the “reality†of which you speak? Is not all “reality,” simply opinion, based on the most solid information we have? Or are you saying that there is “reality” in faith? Aside from your being snarky here I’m confused by what your point is. Please explain.
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:05 pmThanks
MA told me that “she†also ‘believes in’ Evolution… LOL
Comment by unbelievable — May 2, 2007 @ 8:04 pm
Yeah, I’m not sure how a bible literalist can really reconcile those. But then that’s the point, as a person they are inherently in conflict on what they believe. She claims to value life, and be moral, yet she drools at the prospect of Genociding anyone that even looks crosseyed at here beloved Israel. She’s a real waco job.
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:06 pm“The question isn’t whether Jesus was a real person, but whether Jesus really said what’s attributed to him.”
Well, if he’s not real, then that solves the dillemma :)
“Most of the writings that supposedly derive from his dictation, date to the second century after his death. Hardly the kind of “authoritative†material one would hope to found an historical account on.”
Exactly. And even then, Matthew, John, Mark and Luke don’t jive. Just read all four ‘resurection’ stories. None of them agree…
“Were you aware that of the THOUSANDS of copies of manuscripts that have survived from that early Christian era – there are no two copies anywhere in the bunch that are identical to each other?”
Yeah… Another ‘turn-off’, huh? ;)
“Not me, anyone with your intellect I won’t reject – no matter whether we agree or not – I ALWAYS listen ;)”
Definitely not you. And I appreciate that. It’s why I always return the respect, even when we don’t agree : )
I was thinking about Gerald and the liberal Christians or Agnostics like him who don’t get how I and people like me can be certain that the Christian god is impossible… I try to be understanding as it’s hard to discard that parachute and take that leap of ‘faith’ LOL… But, when they attack me personally, I have no problems calling them on it.
“Well, it can be a sensitive issue for people – and the skin is naturally thin where spirituality and death are involved for most of us.
Comment by ValiantVenusGrewFromUranus — May 2, 2007 @ 8:04 pm”
True. I haven’t forgotten. But, since they haven’t been on this side of the fence, and we have, it’s hard to have a discourse when one side is one-sided.
I’ve been reading “Losing Faith in Faith: From Preacher to Atheist” by Dan Barker. It’s a brilliant book. Probably the one I’d first recommend to anyone who wants to understand why Atheists are convinced enough to walk away from god(s) and not look back…
I really should run… Always, nice talking with you adults after Valiant finally goes for a diaper change and off to bed… :)
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:18 pm#173 Comment by ValiantVenusGrewFromUranus — May 2, 2007 @ 8:06 pm
MA told me that “she†also ‘believes in’ Evolution… LOL
Comment by unbelievable — May 2, 2007 @ 8:04 pm
Yeah, I’m not sure how a bible literalist can really reconcile those.
Does anyone here actually know “my sweetie”, venus? Is she/it really a woman at all? My snarky post where I posited:
So, I’ve been looking at all your posts, and you know what? I don’t believe you really are the 24 year old beautiful woman all these progs make you out to be. I was fooled! Boo Hoo. (Never mind those that want you to gain a few pounds, I always thought. You were just perfect for me just as anorexic as you were.)
Sigh… I now know the truth. I see you with new eyes, as they say. And I can’t say I like what I see.
The truth is out! You are really an overweight, 54ish old man who chainsmokes Camels while sitting in front of two computers while acting like a troll.
Now appearance isn’t everything to me, you know. But listen, trying to cover your rather large bald spot by combing your hair over from the side? This is too much. Oh, and you might want to clean your glasses more often, dirty ones strain the eyes. BTW. How DO you see through those “coke bottles” when they are so dirty anyway? Doesn’t it make your words come out screwy?
I really was addressing this point. I sort of think the characture I painted of it being a 54 year old man makes as much sense. Too much contradiction, too much writing like an older person (what 24 year old girl writes like this. (A dyke maybe? hmmm) There is no consistancy. In my view, nothing it says is valid from any prespective. The only thing left is snark value. And therein lies the music in punching bags like the character I painted.
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:29 pmOh and Merlin, valiant venus does have *definite* psycho-sexual identity issues – just like her her(oin)e Ann Coulter.
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:39 pmMerlin,
That makes me feel all squirmy inside — and not in a good way. :P
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:49 pmMore on the Florida recount from the Miami Herald, since you don’t seem to like the NY Times:
Enter the Miami Herald, which yesterday said that if the recounts had been allowed to continue, then “under almost all scenarios, Bush still would have won.” The particulars are as follows: Bush officially won by 537 votes. If Gore’s more liberal counting standard prevailed and all dimpled and hanging chads had been counted, then the Bush lead jumps to 1,665. If dimples only count where other races are dimpled (which would suggest a uniform error by the voter or by the machine, rather than a voter changing his or her mind before perforating the chad), then the Bush lead is 884. If two corners of the chad must be perforated, this being the predominant standard for recounts throughout the country, then the lead is 363.
There, the matter is settled.
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:59 pmWait muckdog, you did post the post-analysis article from the Herald, the one that intentionally LIED about the findings of the recount. Sorry son, but the matter is settled, and you’re WRONG.
I suggest you go here. It breaks out how the Herald misrepresented the findings of the recount.
Also look at the link unbelievable posted – it’s a reference to the actual recount data – not the lies of some *reporter* trying to pass on his wingNUT agenda.
http://archive.democrats.com/view.cfm?id=2793
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:08 pm#176 Comment by ValiantVenusGrewFromUranus — May 2, 2007 @ 8:39 pm
Oh and Merlin, valiant venus does have *definite* psycho-sexual identity issues – just like her her(oin)e Ann Coulter.
Yes! And then there is that! Borderline psychotic would fit the bill here, I suppose. In real life I ignore the Ann C**oulters of the world. They are simply not to be trusted, especially since they trust everyone to be after them.
#177 Comment by Zooey — May 2, 2007 @ 8:49 pm
Merlin,
That makes me feel all squirmy inside — and not in a good way. :P
Yes,…well…er…(struggling for words)…I have to go now…
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:10 pmBush became president in 2000 because he got the Black Vote….namely Clarence Thomas. The silver lining in all this is that Bush and his Right wing republican base have been totally discredited and shown to be incompetent, dishonest, corrupt, and dangerous.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:13 pmThe republicans won’t win ANYTHING outside the south in 2008. Too bad America had to pay a nearly Fatal price for this education.
Yes! And then there is that! Borderline psychotic would fit the bill here, I suppose. In real life I ignore the Ann C**oulters of the world. They are simply not to be trusted, especially since they trust everyone to be after them. Comment by Merlin — May 2, 2007 @ 9:10 pm
In the real world, people like valiant venus ask me for change and I tell them to get off the meth.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:16 pm#179 Comment by muckdog — May 2, 2007 @ 8:59 pm
There, the matter is settled.
BwaaaaHaaaaHaaaa
Well DogMuck, I see you are still rolling around in it. I won’t believe it until you show me that O’Reilly and Rush said it.
You haven’t factored in the strong arm tactics the Rethugs used to supress the vote. And you say, “There, the matter is settled.”
BwaaaaHaaaHaaa
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:18 pm#180 Comment by Badger — May 2, 2007 @ 9:13 pm
Bush became president in 2000 because he got the Black Vote….namely Clarence Thomas.
Perfect!
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:20 pmYes,…well…er…(struggling for words)…I have to go now…
Comment by Merlin
Heh. Gotcha!
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:21 pmWell DogMuck, I see you are still rolling around in it. I won’t believe it until you show me that O’Reilly and Rush said it.
Comment by Merlin — May 2, 2007 @ 9:18 pm
Yeah, poor st*pid thing, doesn’t even realize that the Herald was thrashed for posting their OWN conclusion to the findings of the recount. Geez, wonder whether a republican had anything to do with that misinformation! No wonder these guys fear the fairness and truth in reporting bill the democrats are proposing?
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:27 pmvalient; Geeez, you REALLY SHOULD quit eating from the chamber pot.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:28 pm“There, the matter is settled.”
Um, no, actually not. The link you provided is a link to an op-ed, not a link to actual data. Moreover, the op-ed is flatly incorrect. The data you are citing refer to recount scenarios that don’t count the over-votes or only recount the disputed four counties or have other restrictions placed on them. In every single recount scenario where determining the will of the voter was paramount, Gore won.
Counting all the votes in all of the Florida counties, Gore won, regardless of which “dimpled chad” standard was applied.
The full set of results for this ballot count was as follows:
Review of all ballots statewide:
- using standard set by each county canvassing board: Gore by 171
- counting fully punched chads and limited marks: Gore by 115
- counting any dimples or optical mark: Gore by 107
- count one corner of chad detached or optical mark: Gore by 60
Review of limited set of ballots:
- recount of ballots in four disputed counties: Bush by 225
- recount of all undervotes statewide: Bush by 430
- recount as actually implemented by some of the counties before the counting was stopped, with each county deciding for itself whether to count overvotes as well as undervotes: Bush by 493
There were seven potential outcomes. Gore won four of them. Most notably, he won every single scenario where a full, complete and accurate recount was paramount. In short: he won. See Wikipedia for more information.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:33 pmCan ANY lying, hypocritical, TREASONOUS inbred Bushite be buried…
…on consecrated ground…
…after all of this sh*t?
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:37 pmWorst. President. Ever.
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:25 pmWow, you folks really live in some sort of alternate reality.
Bush won. I gave you multiple sources. It takes a really dumb person to believe othrwise. Or be hoodwonked into believing otherwise.
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:34 pmIt turns my stomach when the violence in Iraq is compared
to crime here at home.
Remember Brit Hume’s comment aired by Fox News -Back in
Aurgust of 2003 that our troops are more likely to be murdered in California than to die in Iraq.
Such misrepresentations aimed at downplaying the senseless
bloodshed wrought by this immoral and incompetent administration
are insulting.
“Success is not, no violence. There are parts of our own country that have got a certain level of violence to it.” George Bush
May 3rd, 2007 at 12:02 am“Bush won. I gave you multiple sources”
Dear heart, considering that the sources you provided were either missing, wrong, or incomplete, forgive us for not taking them, or you, seriously. I gave you the full story above. You want to quarrel with that? Take it up with the consortium that did the counting. Those seven scenarios are the scenarios they reported — that is the full and complete report in my post.
The op-ed you pointed to was particularly wrong, by the way, in that it was referring to a different set of data, not the complete consortium report.
The New York Times article that you mentioned (without citing or linking to it) reported only on three of the scenarios, contending that the full recount would not have taken place and that overvotes would not have been counted, both of them highly questionable assertions. However, when you actually read the full article, the Times does admit that there were four scenarios where Gore won. And I repeat: every scenario where determining the actual number of votes and the will of the voters was paramount, Gore won. This is not in dispute by any reputable source.
That you don’t know any of this says a lot about the accuracy of your information and “research” on this issue.
May 3rd, 2007 at 12:38 amWow, you folks really live in some sort of alternate reality.
Bush won. I gave you multiple sources. It takes a really dumb person to believe othrwise. Or be hoodwonked into believing otherwise.
Comment by muckdog — May 2, 2007 @ 11:34 pm
Oops, I guess the Herald missed the 93,000 voters who were purged illegally from the Florida rolls as having the same name as a felon elsewhere in the US – what they were purged for was the ‘crime’ of trying to ‘vote while black’….
Thanks for playing dogmuck, try again soon.
May 3rd, 2007 at 12:57 amWow, you folks really live in some sort of alternate reality. Comment by muckdog — May 2, 2007 @ 11:34 pm
Pure projection.
Bush won. I gave you multiple sources. It takes a really dumb person to believe othrwise. Or be hoodwonked into believing otherwise. Comment by muckdog — May 2, 2007 @ 11:34 pm
Once again, pure projection. You didn’t provide *multiple-sources*, you provided Op-ED pieces. Those aren’t *sources*, dear st*pid little child. Although you tend to post them for everything from Global Warming to politics – it just shows what an idiot you are…
The OP-ED article was about the actual recount numbers (it lied), that were in fact linked by others here. Just because you’re so r*t*rded that you can’t go check those numbers or see the numbers people posted here that prove you’re wrong, it isn’t our fault child. It’s your parent’s fault for raising such an immoral, inbred lying piece of sh*t.
Grow up little boy – you lying here day in and day out is making you evil, not just st*p*d.
May 3rd, 2007 at 1:02 amKerry: Success against terrorism is when terrorist attacks are reduced to the level of nuisance, and do not threaten the fabric of your life.
Bush minions: Kerry is naive and does not understand the nature of the threat! There is no acceptable level of terrorism or terrorist violence! Kerry is a traitor! Dangerous! Frightening!
Pres Bush: Success against terrorism is a level of violence where the people feel comfortable about living their daily lives. And that’s what we’re trying to achieve.
Bush minions: What wisdom! What vision! All hail the Leader!!
May 3rd, 2007 at 1:09 amKind of like when we still feel quite comfortable when something like Virginia Tech happens. Or like, when we still feel comfortable when our leaders goes out to bomb a country we know nothing about back to the stone age. Or like, when we still felt comfortable after Abu Graïb, just because it’s so far away from bed. Some people need to grow the FUEL up, Americans first, muslims last.
May 3rd, 2007 at 7:12 amBush’s Definition Of Iraq Success Called ‘Naive’ By Cheney And ‘Frightening’ By Giuliani
During the 2004 election….
Sorry, I will have to stop you there.
You spent time going back 3 years to find multiple accounts to establish the fact that either:
a – two people disagree with Bush on Iraq, or
b – Bush said something and that didn’t help.
Forrgetting the fact that you could have gone back 3 minutes instead of 3 years and achieved the same result, Is this really a good use of your time ?
You know I think I read someone in the press recently saying that no WMDs were found in Iraq. Dig that up and post it like it’s news.
May 3rd, 2007 at 12:10 pmWhen will the 20% who still approve of Bush realize that he is a LYING, INCOMPETANT A/H.
May 3rd, 2007 at 1:36 pmAre you trying to insult my intelligence? Below are the quotes followed by the transcript of the video. This is straight out of 1984. The rhetoric they are spouting off changes and they take no responsibility for the actions they have previously taken. They need to be held accountable.
BUSH: Just this weekend we saw new evidence that the Senator fundamentally misunderstands the war against terror. … Our goal is not to reduce terror to some acceptable level of nuisance. Our goal is to defeat terror by staying on the offensive, destroying the networks, and spreading freedom and liberty. [10/12/04]
CHENEY: Nor can we think of our goal in this war in the way Senator Kerry described it yesterday in The New York Times. Quote: “We have to get back to the place,†he said, where terrorism is “a nuisance,†sort of like – and these are his comparisons — sort of like gambling and prostitution. This is naive and dangerous. [10/11/04]
GIULIANI: “In a conference call with reporters arranged by the Bush campaign, Rudolph W. Giuliani, the former mayor of New York, mocked Mr. Kerry for comparing terrorism to gambling and prostitution. ‘The idea that you can have an acceptable level of terrorism is frightening,’ Mr. Giuliani said.†[NYT, 10/12/04]
Transcript From video:
BUSH: Either we’ll succeed, or we won’t succeed. And the definition of success as I described is sectarian violence down. Success is not, no violence. There are parts of our own country that have got a certain level of violence to it. But success is a level of violence where the people feel comfortable about living their daily lives. And that’s what we’re trying to achieve.
May 5th, 2007 at 3:53 am