Immigration rally disrupted by police.
By on May 2nd, 2007 at 1:54 am
Immigration rally disrupted by police.
CNN reported a disturbing account from an immigration rally in Los Angeles yesterday:
It was a dramatic and chaotic end to what was otherwise a peaceful day here in Los Angeles. … Police started to move and disperse the crowd and fired rubber bullets, dozens of rubber bullets, into the crowd. People went running and fleeing, trying to get out of their way, and there really was, there didn’t seem to be any warning. Police just took ground and moved forward and started firing on this crowd. … There were a lot of children and families at the rally, in the crowd, and I’ve got to tell you, there really wasn’t a lot of warning.
Watch the report:
So, first the CIA spends billions creating terrorists to use “against” the “evil empire” of the soviets, then our Fairness Doctrine and Equal Time provisions instituted following WW2 are summarily stripped, then, after Cheney and Bush bamboozle and propagandize in this deregulated media environment, finally manage to steal the US elections in an outright theft in our Supreme Court, then, after 9/11, even though they had since 1993 to catch whomever tried to blow up the WTC the first time, they use the existance of those very same terrorists which they originally created as a pretext to now “crack down” on “terrorism” by entirely dismantling our U.S. constitutional rights of privacy and freedom, all while “justifying” this on the basis that the “technology is changing”, yet at the top of this whole international scam is technology you have never heard of and secretive groups of billionaires running all of the countries to begin with. It’s all a big joke designed to undo everything generations of Americans have fought and died for, in order to institute a fascist “total surveillance” dictatorship with no protections, no rights, no privacy and no real security, except for the spooks, goons, and brownshirt collaborators foisting this despicable nazism on America under the guise of “patriotism” in order to effectively destroy it. When do they show the “hearings”? at 2:30 in the morning on CSPAN, and every other question they insist on answering in “closed session”, while mumbling platitudes about “the President” who STOLE election to justify this completely unamerican fascistic garbage. Meanwhile, there is no protection against any of this, or against the actual domestic terrorism which is encouraged and conducted against private US individuals, they routinely violate all of our laws to begin with, and now they are rushing and rushing to “legitimate” the anti-human illegal and immoral operations they have already conducted and are conducting every day by getting “new” laws “passed” to cover their criminal asses, all while a growing number of Americans are demanding Dual Impeachment. This is nothing less than the planned death of American Freedom and Democracy at the hands of totalitarian monsters, and it has been carried out for a very long time. Kabuki hearings in D.C. are not going to do anything; Immediate Dual Impeachment is the only possible antivenom for this traitorous GOP snakebite which has already infected plenty of weakened and succeptible Americans in both parties. Bottom line is if some cheetohhead maroon at the tasteefreeze decides to lable you a “terrorist”, which he has every incentive and encouragement to do, the entire mindcontrol apparatus of the hyperpolitical uberhysterical globalist corporatist media state gets turned against you. Enough is enough already. It’s six years past time to impeach.
=*=
May 2nd, 2007 at 2:03 amWhy didnt they just use real bullets? It´s not like they are real citizens, right?
May 2nd, 2007 at 2:03 amI really hate to see this. I don’t know if there is any way we can turn back the tide. Even if we busted a cap on Limpballs and The Manne, what good would it do…the damage has already been done. Our fascist nightmare has just begun.
May 2nd, 2007 at 2:08 amSo, first the CIA spends billions creating terrorists to use “against” the “evil empire” of the soviets, then our Fairness Doctrine and Equal Time provisions instituted following WW2 are summarily stripped, then, after Cheney and Bush bamboozle and propagandize in this deregulated media environment, finally manage to steal the US elections in an outright theft in our Supreme Court, then, after 9/11, even though they had since 1993 to catch whomever tried to blow up the WTC the first time, they use the existance of those very same terrorists which they originally created as a pretext to now “crack down” on “terrorism” by entirely dismantling our U.S. constitutional rights of privacy and freedom, all while “justifying” this on the basis that the “technology is changing”, yet at the top of this whole international scam is technology you have never heard of and secretive groups of billionaires running all of the countries to begin with. It’s all a big joke designed to undo everything generations of Americans have fought and died for, in order to institute a fascist “total surveillance” dictatorship with no protections, no rights, no privacy and no real security, except for the spooks, goons, and brownshirt collaborators foisting this despicable nazism on America under the guise of “patriotism” in order to effectively destroy it. When do they show the “hearings”? at 2:30 in the morning on CSPAN, and every other question they insist on answering in “closed session”, while mumbling platitudes about “the President” who STOLE election to justify this completely unamerican fascistic garbage. Meanwhile, there is no protection against any of this, or against the actual domestic terrorism which is encouraged and conducted against private US individuals, they routinely violate all of our laws to begin with, and now they are rushing and rushing to “legitimate” the anti-human illegal and immoral operations they have already conducted and are conducting every day by getting “new” laws “passed” to cover their criminal asses, all while a growing number of Americans are demanding Dual Impeachment. This is nothing less than the planned death of American Freedom and Democracy at the hands of totalitarian monsters, and it has been carried out for a very long time. Kabuki hearings in D.C. are not going to do anything; Immediate Dual Impeachment is the only possible antivenom for this traitorous GOP snakebite which has already infected plenty of weakened and succeptible Americans in both parties. Bottom line is if some cheetohhead maroon at the tasteefreeze decides to lable you a “terrorist”, which he has every incentive and encouragement to do, the entire mindcontrol apparatus of the hyperpolitical uberhysterical globalist corporatist media state gets turned against you. The state has trillions of dollars of your money which they are using in a war on you. Enough is enough already. It’s six years past time to impeach.
=*=
May 2nd, 2007 at 2:10 amLA cops, go figure. Everywhere else in the US (and there were tons of protests today) was peaceful. Mark Furmanitis must really infect the LA police department.
May 2nd, 2007 at 2:11 amMilwaukee was fine and it is one of the most divided cities in the country.
May 2nd, 2007 at 2:12 amAnd today was the 15th anniversary of the Rodney King riots.
May 2nd, 2007 at 2:15 amthe ex CIA student Cooper was very interested in the rubber bullet, “can you squeeze it”, wonder what the point of that was. To down play the pain it causes.
It was also really nice of the thug to jab the woman as she was trying to help another lady up from the ground.
Any way, take our rights to peacefully protest, and it’s on.
May 2nd, 2007 at 2:18 am#7 Those crazy LA cops!!! I am thinking they need a leave of absence. Especially the chief.
May 2nd, 2007 at 2:18 amWhat is the point of shooting into a crowd of peaceful protestors? I am thinking these guys need to cut back on the HGH shots.
May 2nd, 2007 at 2:20 amIf businesses and corporations were held to the law, made to account for illegally hiring the undocumented, then we would not be having these problems. This is another screw job be the Reagan administration - turn a blind eye to those employers breaking the law - all for big business.
May 2nd, 2007 at 2:26 amJPark, the guys who staff the police force and who man the prisons are filled to the brim of their hats with hate speech every day. When I was falsely arrested in Virginia, I saw this with stunning clarity. As I sat there in the van with chains on my hands and feet, the guards kept the radio tuned to Limpballs to get the latest update. Something has to be done about the rampant immorality of the talk-radio figures and the televangelists. What that something needs to be should be the subject for national debate.
May 2nd, 2007 at 2:44 am“I really hate to see this. I don’t know if there is any way we can turn back the tide. Even if we busted a cap on Limpballs and The Manne, what good would it do…the damage has already been done. Our fascist nightmare has just begun.” –stonehinge
NONSENSE. Look, we have had HUNDREDS of peaceful protests in Los Angeles, and the LAPD has been cool throughout. I hear exactly the same thing from San Francisco, btw.
All it would have taken to set off such a police response is a couple of rockthrowers. There are nitwits in Hollywood (near MacArthur Park, where I heard this happened) who are into inciting the LAPD, and there are radicalized factions which have beefs with the LAPD anyhow, many of them CONFUSING, as you do, ’stonehenge,’ a single incident with their epic fight ungainst world domination, or something.
City cops are NOT representatives of our federal problems. They are city cops. Don’t throw rocks at them as if they were ‘the Man,’ or at least don’t do it when children are present.
And, for reference, I personally participated in stopping a similar event two years ago, when with other older activists we stopped some younger people from confronting the LAPD while children were present.
What those clowns said was something like “let the revolution start here.” It is easy to understand how the rhetoric makes some people radicalized, but it is easy to see how that radicalization and a crowd could make some try to take a public opportunity to cause chaos, thinking they are serving a function by doing so.
I’m sorry I wasn’t there to interfere with that effort to turn YET ANOTHER PEACEFUL MASS PROTEST into a fiasco. And then trading on it around here as if it’s a sign of something. It’s an anomaly — not the rule.
May 2nd, 2007 at 4:30 amOur fascist nightmare has just begun.
Comment by stonehinge — May 2, 2007 @ 2:08 am
Well it’s about fkn time.
We’ve been hearing for 6 years that this administration was akin to the Nazis and Bush akin to Hitler.
So far they haven’t managed to pull anything that hasn’t happened before in the US, let alone moved into Nazi Germany territory.
May 2nd, 2007 at 4:34 am“LA cops, go figure. Everywhere else in the US (and there were tons of protests today) was peaceful. Mark Furmanitis must really infect the LA police department.” –JPark
Bullshit. HUNDREDS of peaceful protests have taken place. Chief Bratton has kept the lid on during some VERY dangerous situations in the last seven years of federal tyranny.
Fourth of July three years ago I was told by CHP that they had a meeting in Sacto and had decideed to ‘be on the right side of this mess when it’s all over’ — which both recognized the danger of this out-of-control Executive and also REAFFIRMED their commitment to the rule of law and professionalism, not hooliganism like the Bushies.
Your experience in VA is not representative, stonehenge. Los Angeles is one of the most integrated cities in the world. We have something like 250 cultures, living here together, pretty much in harmony. This is NOT Virginia.
The same does not go for the Sheriff, which are NOT nice people in general. If there is a danger, it mainly comes from them, not the LAPD, most of whom live here (unlike the Sheriffs, who tend to live in Riverside or other rightwing haven outside Los Angeles).
May 2nd, 2007 at 4:40 amSure thing, Kilo, they’ve only killed 1 million Iraqis during an illegal invasion in which our National Guard has been raped, while employing tens of thousands of mercenaries and giving them a legal waiver.
• Hey, remind me of any other time in U.S. history where deployment of mercenaries next to our troops — with a total legal waiver — was mainstreamed.
During which events they have set up a network of illegal secret prisons and abducted people en masse, taking bounty on thousands of innocent persons, holding hostages, violating all international treaty laws and US war crimes law (before amended in a corrupt process), while denying habeas corpus on a scale NEVER seen before in US history.
And on and on. Your kind of Apology Troll apparently never deviates from the shit-eating stupidity of your kind.
May 2nd, 2007 at 4:44 am(Well, of the years Bratton was here, which isn’t yet seven)
May 2nd, 2007 at 4:45 amWell, LET THE RIOTS COME!
I have a baaad feeling about this.
May 2nd, 2007 at 5:01 amAs further evidence, here is a great shot of the downtown protest, which was completely peaceful:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/eecue/480389988/
If the LAPD was on some sort of immigrant bashing bit, then why didn’t they show it downtown?
What’s the difference? A couple of miles, but far enough from Hollywood that the few malcontents didn’t show up to cause problems.
May 2nd, 2007 at 5:41 amLike I said, ain’t nothing un-American or new so far.
Did I miss something ? Are we no longer doing Vietnam comparisons ?
Why ?
Was this how the US has become the equivalent of Nazi Germany ? Because of the need for security details, which US troops aren’t responsible for, which are filled by private security contractors.
Was that relevant in some way or just your convoluted way of agreeing with me ?
Where have they abducted people en masse ? The only numbers which would qualify for such a statement would be surrendering brigades of Iraqi army and Taliban at the fall of each regime. Hardly out of the norm for war zones or typical for the numbers of people detained in groups since in either war zone.
The most recent report on Iraqi detainees from WaPo was the US is holding 18000 detainees, for a country that is in the midst of almost all-out civil war with that scale of bloodshed, anarchy and lawlessness.
Did I miss something else or were those comparisons between Iraqi markets and ones in Indiana no longer ridiculous ?
Or the crime rate in Baghdad and Washinton no longer laughable ?
Because I’d suggest detaining 18,000 in Iraq is pretty tame when compared to prison populations of both of those and their comparitive crime rates and populations.
In fact, since this is the case why are you not complaining about the Washinton police detaining Americans en masse ?
Still waiting for something new to pop up.
Except for the times it was denied on a scale 10 times this. One wonders how it is “Nazis” didn’t need explaining but American participation in WW2 apparently does.
My kind of “apology troll” ? WTF would that be exactly ?
The only apology that I can imagine you’ve interpreted from what I’ve written is one which is still owed all the countries and populations the US has visited these crimes on before doing it this time.
Not really relevant to me, but hey, who’s betting on nutjobs like you to make sense.
Still the “troll” part would remain baffling given that comparing the US to Nazis is practically a sport here.
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:08 amIs that what you meant, idiot ?
Or were you just throwing some labels around in lieu of having any kind of relevant response to make.
policemen should be required to wear cameras in their badge and belt buckles. first time both cameras are not filming while on the job,you’re fired , no more law enforcement work for you , any where period. any decent peace officer would see that this protects them as well as the public. it would make convictions a snap. it would unclog court systems, and in general make the public safe, like what governments should do . cameras in society can work, but instead of filming the public at large, we should be focusing the cameras on the leaders who are in charge.
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:12 amYou’re right. For one thing there are twice as many race-hate groups in CA than VA and more than 6 times the amount of race-hate incidents.
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:15 amThat kind of cultural harmony.
Well it would be quite an effort to detail on how many levels this is a ridiculous suggestion.
So how about instead you just tell us you would be happy to be sacked and denied any future work in your field based on the same test.
That test being whether 2 pieces of sensitive electronics equipment you can’t repair or even tell if they are operating, stop operating. In particular, you’ve specified that if this electronics equipment stops operating during a riot. Wow. So many levels of dumb.
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:21 amWhat PAP!
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:06 amBush Regime is responsible, because they are keeping the Mexican border wide open and the entire poverty stricken population of Mexico is pouring across it. The border has to be secured to prevent a further influx and Mexican government must be forced to employ their citizens.
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:40 amI hope this event does not trigger a racial war in California, but if it happens then Bush himself would be responsible. I was born and raised in California and watching my birth state self-destruct is sad.
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:48 am1. Welcome to the Police State.
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:53 amthomas sewell will get wet watching that tape.
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:56 amPaul in LA–
A few nitwits isn’t enough to justify indiscriminate firing into a crowd.
This is why every abuse of police power has to be scrutinized. To dismiss this as an isolated incident is dangerous. If they fired dozens of rounds into the crowd without warning, their supervisors either gave the order or else numerous individual officers took it upon themselves to fire (a la the Boston Massacre) and their supervisors were powerless to stop the firing once it started. In either case, given that there doesn’t (yet) seem any provocation in the crowd strong enough to merit this response, those who gave the orders or assumed the authority must become an example. Or else the example will be that anyone in legitimate authority can assault peaceful protesters without consequence.
We have too many examples of that.
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:56 amLos Angeles is a tender box that has ignited in racial riots in the past, so if this triggers another one it could spread all over California, then spread to other states with Latino populations like Texas and Arizona.
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:59 amHonestly it IS time to teach those wetbacks a lesson.
Send them back. Theyre all subhumans anyway.
How can we make money off their misery….
Thats what theyre thinking in the white house.
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:02 amAnd some wonder why we call them “pigs”.
Best intentions and all that…
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:04 amCinco de Mayo celebration occurs this Saturday, so I fear something bad starting this weekend. Racial tensions could overheat and just explode.
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:06 amVery brave police- hitting women and shooting unarmed peaceful protesters.
These cops day will come and we will see them running like the corrupt pigs in New Orleans.
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:07 amYou people are blaming Bush & Cheney for this? You need to back up on this. #1 something may have happened that we didn’t see causing the cops to move in and break things up. In other words we don’t know the full story (yet). #2 these protests are “FOR” allowing illegal aliens to have citizenship in mass. When the welted guy was interviewed he said, “We are here to demand our immigration rights!” I got news for you and him, if he is not a US Citizen he has NO RIGHT TO DEMAND some other RIGHT. Citizens don’t even have the RIGHT TO DEMAND some other RIGHT.
Immigration in and of itself is not a RIGHT. Immigration is an orderly change that is based on privilege and is not a right. By the way most property in the US is OWNED by somebody or some group. We already have a few million HOMLESS CITIZENS so you contend that we need to ADD these 12,000,000 aliens to the mix? Then what happens with the next 12,000,000 behind them…?
I can hear it now, “Hey! You let them in, we DEMAND OUR IMMIGRATION RIGHTS TOO!”
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:23 amRubber bullets are NOT “non-lethal” they are called “less-lethal” by the police.
Just one recent example:
Student killed during postgame celebration
Woman hit by projectile fired by officer; police take full responsibility
Posted: Thursday October 21, 2004 4:35PM; Updated: Thursday October 21, 2004 8:42PM
BOSTON (AP) — A 21-year-old college student died Thursday of a head injury after a clash between police and a crowd of Red Sox fans who poured into the streets outside Fenway Park to celebrate their team’s victory over the New York Yankees.
Victoria Snelgrove, a journalism major at Emerson College in Boston, was shot in the eye by a projectile fired by an officer on crowd-control duty. The nature of the projectile was not immediately identified but the weapons are meant to be non-lethal.
During a news conference carried live on local television stations, Boston Police Commissioner Kathleen O’Toole expressed the department’s sympathies to Snelgrove’s family and said the agency “accepts full responsibility for the death of Victoria Snelgrove.
“The Boston Police Department is devastated by this tragedy. This terrible event should never have happened,” O’Toole said.
Snelgrove, of East Bridgewater, was among 16 people hurt in Boston’s Kenmore Square neighborhood early Thursday morning, after thousands of fans spilled out onto the streets to celebrate the Red Sox winning the American League pennant. She died at Brigham and Women’s Hospital later in the day.
“It appears from evidence we have reviewed thus far that Tori was killed when she was hit in the eye by a projectile fired as officers tried to control mobs outside the ballpark,” O’Toole said. “Designated officers were equiped with less-lethal systems that use projectiles designed to break upon impact, dousing the target with [pepper-like] spray.”
For more info:
The National Police Accountability Project (NPAP)
The National Police Accountability Project (NPAP), a project of the National Lawyers Guild, is a non-profit organization, dedicated to ending police abuse of authority through coordinated legal action, public education, and support for grassroots and victims’ organizations combating police misconduct.
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:32 amSaywho > 1 to 2 million illegals have crossed the Mexican border into US every year since Bush has been president. A couple of million came in during Clinton’s presidency. Both of them failed to secure the border.
I am an advocate of securing the border to prevent any more influx of illegals pouring across it, but police shooting the ones already here with rubber bullits and beating them just ignites racial problems.
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:33 amDivide, Circle back and capture the cops. Then fuckem up good.
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:36 amWhy would anyone start getting violent at all? Isnt this America?
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:38 am#
You people are blaming Bush & Cheney for this? You need to back up on this. #1 something may have happened that we didn’t see causing the cops to move in and break things up. In other words we don’t know the full story (yet). #2 these protests are “FOR†allowing illegal aliens to have citizenship in mass. When the welted guy was interviewed he said, “We are here to demand our immigration rights!†I got news for you and him, if he is not a US Citizen he has NO RIGHT TO DEMAND some other RIGHT. Citizens don’t even have the RIGHT TO DEMAND some other RIGHT.
Immigration in and of itself is not a RIGHT. Immigration is an orderly change that is based on privilege and is not a right. By the way most property in the US is OWNED by somebody or some group. We already have a few million HOMLESS CITIZENS so you contend that we need to ADD these 12,000,000 aliens to the mix? Then what happens with the next 12,000,000 behind them…?
I can hear it now, “Hey! You let them in, we DEMAND OUR IMMIGRATION RIGHTS TOO!â€
Comment by Saywho — May 2, 2007 @ 8:23 am
The RIGHTS in the Consitution extend to ALL CITIZENS of the world. PERIOD. I am done with the within our borders crap. The LIBERAL document is meant to be the context to a world human rights document. Figure it out schmuck.
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:39 amI would rather have muslims here in the US than Mexican cut throats robbing us with no morals at all
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:43 amI thought America was built by immigrants.
Maybe I’m wrong, but I seem to remember hearing something about that a while ago.
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:45 amdear #41.
yes - America was built by immigrants. LEGAL IMMIGRANTS.
ILLEGAL ONES have NO RIGHTS. I agree with #2 - why didn’t they just use real bullets?
I am so sick to death of hearing these people whine about how they’re oppressed and scorned by society. Yes - you are - b/c you’re criminals!
Obey the law or get the hell out of our country you scumbags. Bottom line.
The problem is not with the law; it’s with the illegals disobeying it. And in my opinion it is high time that the US actively began enforcing that law.
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:48 ampolice beating immigrants? consternos are surely salivating and becoming aroused about now…
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:49 amOf course the illegal immigrants and their supporters did nothing wrong. They never do. They are just such peaceful people.
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:49 amAmen! Citizenship is NOT a RIGHT for any of us. It is a privilege. It comes after following the rules for getting it. Obey the law and follow the rules or shut up already. These illegals should consider themselves dang lucky they’re still in this country today given the fact that they’re breaking the law.
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:50 amTP, you’re a liar. How about telling the whole truth. Tell the libs what caused retaliation by the police authorities. Didn’t they throw rocks and contraband at the police, hmm? These are the same illegals that are seeking a path towards citizenship. They must understand that they broke the law and must pay the consequences.
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:52 amDaryll > do not incite any more violence over this incident. The police overreacted to a few rock throwers. They should have fired tear gas to disperse the crowd. Shooting at them and then beating them is the worst thing to do.
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:57 amYou people are blaming Bush & Cheney for this? You need to back up on this. #1 something may have happened that we didn’t see causing the cops to move in and break things up. In other words we don’t know the full story (yet). #2 these protests are “FOR†allowing illegal aliens to have citizenship in mass. When the welted guy was interviewed he said, “We are here to demand our immigration rights!†I got news for you and him, if he is not a US Citizen he has NO RIGHT TO DEMAND some other RIGHT. Citizens don’t even have the RIGHT TO DEMAND some other RIGHT.
Immigration in and of itself is not a RIGHT. Immigration is an orderly change that is based on privilege and is not a right. By the way most property in the US is OWNED by somebody or some group. We already have a few million HOMLESS CITIZENS so you contend that we need to ADD these 12,000,000 aliens to the mix? Then what happens with the next 12,000,000 behind them…?
I can hear it now, “Hey! You let them in, we DEMAND OUR IMMIGRATION RIGHTS TOO!â€
Comment by Saywho — May 2, 2007 @ 8:23 am
Saywho, thank you. It is a privilege to be a U.S. citizen not a right.
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:58 amI am glad that the police did NOT use the new microwave device that cooks your skin when hit by it.
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:58 amWhat a sad day for our Constitution, and for the people of Los Angeles.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:00 amDaryll > do not incite any more violence over this incident. The police overreacted to a few rock throwers. They should have fired tear gas to disperse the crowd. Shooting at them and then beating them is the worst thing to do.
Comment by Jay Randal — May 2, 2007 @ 8:57 am
It’s considered assault.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:00 amI wonder if the meathead Arnold the Gov. terminator ordered the police to use force against the protestors in Los Angeles?
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:03 amI am an advocate of securing the border to prevent any more influx of illegals pouring across it, but police shooting the ones already here with rubber bullits and beating them just ignites racial problems.
Comment by Jay Randal — May 2, 2007 @ 8:33 am
There is no doubt in my mind that large scale race wars are around the corner! Again, watch that video and you will see that we didn’t see the trigger but only the tail end. Beyond that you also want anarchy in the US based on what you said… I stand by my last post and I pointed out that blaming Bush & Co for this local police action is a stretch. According to the police there was a justification. By the way police can in fact disperse crowds by force and it can even be lethal force if necessary.
In this case it was not lethal and if you watch it you can see that the cops were holding back. Crowd control is difficult and by the looks of it the police in LA did a fantastic job. Illegal aliens are breaking the law just by being here. Now if you want to get into it, start with the Mayor of LA or the police chief. To be complete go back to that protester guy with the welt and ask him how it is that he can DEMAND something and not be another anarchist like you!
Keep in mind that public protests using city property and streets can be halted at any time if crowd control becomes an issue. The police allowed the protest under strict conditions like all protests these days. You should agree that if the crowd became aggressive, disorderly, destructive, drunken or began to encroach on or use private grounds the police would be well within their rights to use force.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:05 amDear #26.
Don’t be naive - while I would like to blame the illegal immigrant problem on GW, the problem is way beyond that; it rests in an overarching and also underlying problem within our society. First that the law isn’t meant to be obeyed; and secondly that everyone has their rights to this or that. Both are false. The law creates a peaceful society; and all that we enjoy in this country are privileges; namely privileges that come from obeying the laws of this country and abiding by them. Those protesting in the streets cannot do this; hence they have no privileges; let alone any rights.
Furthermore, I hope this tension does trigger a public reaction. You title it a racial war; I would disagree. How can it be racial when the issue is the illegality of these individual’s actions. I, and most American citizens I know are perfectly fine with legal immigration - from whatever country. The problem is illegal immigration - it is WRONG. For you and everyone else out there who tries to degrade this into a racial issue - shame on you; shame on you for promulgating racism in America. For once, focus on the real issue at hand; the illegality of these people’s actions and take a stand for obeying the law.
As an aside to any who may attack my presumption that the law should be obeyed as incorrect; claiming as I have heard so many times that the law is either not enforced, or complicated, or unfair - that is no excuse for the illegality of these people’s actions. And any grant of amnesty would send the WRONG message; it would tell those still waiting for their chance to come here illegally that it is ok to keep trying; that it is ok to break the law in the US; b/c we wouldn’t dare enforce a law for fear it may discriminate against a certain group of individuals. I don’t know about you; but that is NOT the message I want to send the world about the US.
Its high time we enforced our legal immigration laws; requiring these people to go back to their country and follow the established process. Anything less will be an insult not only to the foundation of our country but also to those millions that have followed the rules and legally immigrated into this country. There are no shortcuts to earned privilegees such as citizenship; to allow any such shortcut via amnesty or whatever you wish to label it would mere dilute the significance of any privilege that still exists with holding legal citizenship.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:06 amWhat a sad day for our Constitution, and for the people of Los Angeles.
Comment by RUCerious — May 2, 2007 @ 9:00 am
There isn’t a Constitutional Law that states that illegal immigrants can break the law.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:07 amthe revolution is coming.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:07 am#47 - please don’t tell Daryll not to incite this incident further; it needs incited. It is about time that this country stopped worrying about stepping on people’s toes and actually enforced our laws for LEGAL immigration. The first step in doing that would be to deport those who are here ILLEGALLY!!
Bottom line. It’s not racial. It’s a matter of law.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:08 amDaryll > do not act like an enraged Israeli on here who demand that rock throwers be shot dead on sight. The police wore helmets, shields, and padded armor, so the rocks could not hurt them. They should have fired some tear gas to disperse the crowd, but not fired rubber projectiles, nor beaten women with young children or babies.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:09 am#50 - you claim a sad day for our Constitution? how so? have you read our Constitution? it gives privileges that come with citizenship. Citizenship is thus a pre-requisite for those privileges. Until these individuals protesting in the streets manage to come here legally - the Constitution doesn’t apply to them. they have no privileges.
and #53 - you can’t have a ‘race war’ when the issue is over ‘illegal immigrants’. any race that wants to come here; can do so legally! the fact that those of us who hold a US citizenship don’t want our privilege of citizenship diluted by those coming here illegally doesn’t make this a racial issue. your statements indicate your failure to grasp the issue here.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:12 amThis is a very important attempt by Sen. Leahy to protect Americans from Bush’s Police State.
http://leahy.senate.gov/press/200702/020707.html
…….Yet by the time committee work was completed in the House and the Senate on the Fiscal Year 2006 Defense Authorization Bill, the law had been changed and that useful ambiguity had vanished.
In addition to the cases of insurrection, the Act can now be invoked to restore public order after a terrorist attack, a natural disaster, a disease outbreak, or — and this is extremely broad — “other condition.†Restoring public order has suddenly become an entirely new purpose for the Insurrection Act. And, as if to underscore this fundamental change, the conference committeechanged the name of the Act from “Insurrection†to “Enforcement of the Laws to Restore Public Order.â€
This significant change was made without consulting the Nation’s Governors, mayors, sheriffs, or the National Guard Adjutants General. It was made without consulting the other relevant policy committees in the Senate and the House. It was merely slipped in, at the Administration’s request, as rider to a bill that was hundreds of pages long.
And when the Nation’s Governors learned of the change and expressed their strong opposition, they were ignored, and this facilitation of presidential ability to federalize the National Guard – even over the objections of the Nation’s Governors — remained in the bill that was signed into law by President Bush.
Now this President and future Presidents can more easily take control of the National Guard and use our entire military apparatus for law enforcement at home. In a situation like another Katrina or even a more contained incident like a terrorist incident, the President will be able to bring in federal troops and take away control from the Governors, the Emergency Managers, the Sheriffs, and the state Adjutants General who know their communities best and are responsible for responding…
What we should be doing instead is buttressing the response abilities of these local and state officials. We should ensure every State has a state-of-the-art emergency operations center, that our first responders have the best equipment and training, and that the National Guard has adequate equipment and available people at home to provide support. Any federal assets — military or otherwise — that might come into a State should be in a supporting and not commanding role.
The local officials who know their communities are in the best positions to control the situation, not the President or the military…
Last year’s Insurrection Act rider reflects the general lack of close
oversight that has taken a toll on our system of government. I hope the days of rubberstamping are over, and I hope the Senate will quickly remedy this situation by considering and passing the bill that we introduce today.
# # # # #
Text of legislation, S.513.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:13 amPress release.
Letter of support from the National Governors Association.
Letter of support from the National Sheriffs’ Associaiton.
Letter of support from the Enlisted Association of the National Guard.
Letter of support from the Adjutants General of the United States.
Letter of support from the National Guard Association
http://www.newswithviews.com/Takala/rudy.htm
It would seem the home schooledRepublican mindset never advances past the age of 16. This guy, kid I should say, who is homeschooled (By the TV apparently) reminds me of the graduates (Jake and crowd) of pundit media.
As for these illegals, the problem begins and ends with those who hire and exploit them.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:15 amSaywho > lol I am not an anarchist. I believe the border must be secured, but Bush has done ZERO to secure it, so go yell at him.
Shooting any kind of projectile at protestors can cause a riot. They should have fired tear gas to disperse the crowd. In the clip you can clearly see a cop hitting a woman with children.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:16 amI think this post admits there’s an open-season against the vital police force of the U.S. The officers likely acted appropriately. Immigrants - legally or illegally - are capable of committing crimes, too. The LAPD likely operated on some legit red flag.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:18 amWelcome to Amerika. Used to be (when America still existed) that police saw themselves as citizens who protect our communities, who we could all appreciate and look up to, not mindless storm troopers. Now they are ordered to fire their guns at women and children in peaceful assembly and do so with the eagerness of mad dogs let off chain. What is next, boot stomping pregnant women in our streets, night raids on our homes, or shooting us in our pews at Sunday congregation? Can you seriously believe they wouldn’t? Remember, this is how they make a living! If this incident isn’t the epitome of cowardliness (grown men fully armed and anonymously cloaked in full riot gear firing on a receding crowd of unarmed, peaceful protesters), then the word simply has no meaning! How do these guys sleep at night? What in God’s name are we doing to our precious sons and daughters that they would so willingly treat their fellow citizens so inhumanely upon an order to do so? Who would give such an order? God help us.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:18 amTo those who are angry and suggest retaliation, I suggest that a violent response to violence only creates a culture of violence (witness Iraq today). We need a culture of peace and non-violence which sometimes means taking the wounds dealt by these misguided souls and refusing to answer violently ourselves. Let them see the results of their actions and make their own justifications before God. Even if they have forgotten, let’s you and me remember the Golden Rule!
64 - you miss the point - the police weren’t acting against our ‘fellow citizens’ they were acting against ILLEGAL immigrants - who have no citizenship; who have no right to jack squat in this country until they follow the law!
I agree with you the Golden Rule should be followed; but even so these people are breaking the law - whether they’re children or pregnant women or whomever. when you break the law you pay the consequences.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:21 am#64
I agree; non-violence would be the best approach; provided it is a non-violent deportation of those people who are breaking the law by being here illegally.
if that can be done; please make it happen now!
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:23 amThanks TP for sending my post to the graveyard. Sheesh
Jay, I agree with you. Most of these meatheads here have no compassion for their fellow human being. All they can see is color. The color is green. If they percieve it to effect them financially, then f*ck humanity! F*ck compassion. Let’s stick it to them, they deserve it! You troglodites make me sick! How do you justify hitting a woman who is helping someone who has fallen/pushed down? Seriously. Justify those individual actions that separates us from beasts. Try if you can.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:23 am#67.
no, actually what we’re saying is ‘f*ck people breaking the law’
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:32 amBluedahlia > thanks. This thread has attracted ranters who believe in police violence. If they watched the video carefully, then they would notice a police officer wacking a woman who has small children. If their wives were beaten like that, then they would be furious about it.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:33 am#68
no, actually what we’re saying is ‘f*ck people breaking the law’
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:37 amThank you for proving my point.
Shooting any kind of projectile at protestors can cause a riot. They should have fired tear gas to disperse the crowd. In the clip you can clearly see a cop hitting a woman with children.
Comment by Jay Randal — May 2, 2007 @ 9:16 am
Did you ever get hit by a teargas canister? Now back in reality ANARCHIST the police did their job and dispersed a disorderly crowd and by the way this is to secure the rights of the taxpaying public. They didn’t pull MP5s or Glocks and they didn’t risk starting a riot by the use of teargas.
In the clip I saw the police dispersing a crowd of what looked like Mexican and/or South American nationals. Many times protesters bring children to hot button protests as a form of human shield. To me this is tantamount to child abuse since at any point the protest could become a mob rules riot! This is a sad truth of how low people will go by dragging children to political rallies and protests to enhance sympathy from people like you.
The woman went one way and the “kid” went the other way. The cop shoved her and he did his job and you didn’t hear him commanding her to get back and disperse but she decided to run at the cop in an attempt to grab something on the ground.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:37 amI believe in LEGAL immigration. My son’s mother-in-law was an immigrant from Germany and waited 5 years to become a LEGAL citizen of the United States.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:38 amWhy should the mexican people get prioroty over the
folks who have gone the way of the LEGAL process.
I am beginning to wonder what rights an American citizen has an illegal does not.
The stormtroopers are becoming more common.
It’s not just seen at events to stop globalization anymore. The media defended the abusive tactics saying those protesters are hippies and radicals. But how are these people hippies? They are families. They get the same soviet-style jack-booted treatment. And the Union protests. Are they hippies? The unionists are herded like cattle into tiny “protest zones” and disrespected by the police. And remember the Janitor’s protest? There were horses stomping all over those employees.
The old adage that says if they come after the first group and you do nothing, they will eventually get around to coming after you, is true. What group of Americans are immune to this kind of treatment? None.
We need a congress with some backbone to stop this kind of treatment, and we need a modern day MLK to stand up to them. None of these police are truly local anymore, they are trained and financed from the federal government, and they all look alike and act alike now. It’s created from the top and it can be stopped at the top. If they won’t do it, we have to demand that they do.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:40 amWhile police brutality, and the abuse of civil authority, has always been an issue to contend with, the concept of “homeland security” and the promulgation of frear since 9/11 has only increased the enabling of law enforcement to feel they have greater powers to intimidate and exert their authority. Many seem to quickly forget that they serve the populace, and appoint themselves lordship over the citizenry who write their paychecks.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:42 amLibs, I think I solved the problem. The illegal immigrants can stay here. We can tax their wages, but they will not qualify for income tax or Social Security because they have an illegal status within our country. This will will fix the large debt within our economy and Social Security. Yeah!!!
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:43 am#70.
and what was your point?
All I got from your post was that you think people say ‘f*ck humanity’ because they’re financially burdened in some way.
where did you pull that from?
my statement that I don’t appreciate people breaking our laws and think they should be enforced didn’t prove that point. way to think logically.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:45 am#71, your right. It’s sick and demented that they would bring their children in to fight their battles. I guess they’re not for peace after all.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:46 amI agree with you the Golden Rule should be followed; but even so these people are breaking the law - whether they’re children or pregnant women or whomever. when you break the law you pay the consequences.
An authoritarian sentiment, if I ever heard one.
Indiscriminate shooting into a crowd is not a lawful response to law violation. Arrest of suspected lawbreakers is the lawful response to a law violation, but the police chose overwhelming violence instead. So what you’re seeing here is not law enforcement but the use of police officers for political terror; terror is the tool of the authoritarian. That is why, I suspect, our authoritarian posters seem to be giving this violence by “legitimate authority” a free pass, while blaming the victims of the violence. They simply approve of terror for its own sake.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:47 am#75.
I’ve got a better solution - the Illegal immigrants can stay here - IF & WHEN they return from a 3 year tour of duty in Iraq. That way we can solve two problems - we’ll cut down the # of actual US citizens dieing in Iraq; and these people presently breaking the law can earn citizenship by showing they will really fight for this country.
go chew on that for a bit!!
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:47 am#67.no, actually what we’re saying is ‘f*ck people breaking the law’
Comment by chris
I like the way you ‘put’ yourself into the scenario by your little tough talk words. Do you jump out of your car and F*ck people speeding? Or driving drunk? I don’t see you out f*cking these politicians getting massaged.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:49 amSaywho > you are a fascistic person for advocating police violence and then justifying it. Tear gas canisters can be rolled into a crowd or tossed. Firing rubber bullets and beating people with batons is the wrong way to disperse crowds.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:50 amAnother black eye for Los Angeles and California as well.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:51 am#80. shut up already, and stop trying to divert the conversation.
Of course I’m consistent; all people breaking the law should be punished.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:51 amSame applies regardless of the offense. This topic is on illegal immigration though. Hence why I was discussing that and not speeding.
Saywho - you racist piece of crap.
Your type is the reason there’s facism in the world. You enable your leaders to do so. You looked the other way when Hitler rounded up people in your neighborhood. You took the good jobs in communist russia and turned in your friends. Loyal to the government, to the core.
You piece of crap.
You label peaceful protestors waving american flags as something less than human, and accuse them of using their children as shields? We all have a right to peacefully assemble, no matter our immigration status. And we have a right to do so as families. It’s ok when they pick your vegetables and clean your dishes, but not ok to walk on your streets?
You act like these people are terrorists or something. Or Palestinians pelted by Israeli rubber bullets in a war zone. This is America!
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:52 amLibs, I think I solved the problem. The illegal immigrants can stay here. We can tax their wages, but they will not qualify for income tax or Social Security because they have an illegal status within our country. This will will fix the large debt within our economy and Social Security. Yeah!!! Comment by Daryll
Another 16 year old homeschooler Daryll?
Do you realize many of these illegals use fake ID’s and DO pay hundreds of millions if not billions in taxes and social security? Do you ever use your brain for anything other than repeating pundit points?
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:52 am#80,
Dealing with police in riot gear is sure better than a visit from ICE.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:55 am“The border has to be secured to prevent a further influx and Mexican government must be forced to employ their citizens.”
If you really want to stop immigrants from coming here then start arresting the corporate fat cats who are hiring them. When was the last time you saw an employer arrested for hiring an illegal? If we cut off the jobs, they will not come. There will be no reason for them to risk their life and freedom to come across the border if there is no job here waiting for them. I was listening to the radio the other day and I heard some talk show host say that we should arrest the employers, but we should not put them in prison. My question is “why not”. If they are breaking the law, they should go to prison. If they don’t, there will be no deterrent to some other employer to hire illegals.
Here in Oregon, many illegals are taking jobs our young people could fill (like labor jobs in the housing industry or landscaping jobs). But, the greedy employers would rather hire an illegal for $8.00 an hour than pay union wages of $16 an hour.
Our illegal alien problem is not with the illegals themselves, it is with the greedy employers who give them a job.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:56 am84:
We all have a right to peacefully assemble, no matter our immigration status.
Actually you’re wrong - if you’re here illegally you have NO RIGHTS. except the right to be arrested and deported.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:57 am’ve got a better solution - the Illegal immigrants can stay here - IF & WHEN they return from a 3 year tour of duty in Iraq. -Chris
How patriotic of our little GOP chickenhawk Chris!
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:57 amthinkpropgress.org is being 100% disingenious. While yes there were American flags all over these marches, there were also a lot of anti-American slogans, El Che signs, Communist flags, etc, etc.
this was the last thing from being a pro-American rally. What happened here is that organizations like ANSWER and other communist organizations learned from last year when people weren’t flying any American flags, insted they were flying Mexican and other countries flag and there was a huge back lash.
this is typical left wing bull trying to pass a fast one over the ignorant masses.
I had friends who went to the march here in Chicago and were stunned at the level of anti-American sentiment coming from these individuals that are begging to become citizens of the USA.
but how can we expect a left wing site to be honest about anything.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:58 amI guess beating women is within the LAW. Right, chris?
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:59 am89. actually I’m a fairly liberal Democrat - just fyi Null & Void.
Get your facts straight.
I am just opposed to people breaking the law, regardless of how or when.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:00 amand what was your point?
All I got from your post was that you think people say ‘f*ck humanity’ because they’re financially burdened in some way.
where did you pull that from?
my statement that I don’t appreciate people breaking our laws and think they should be enforced didn’t prove that point. way to think logically.
Reading comprehension 101 for chris please.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:01 amI don’t have time to explain myself to someone who doesn’t want to understand. I have to get to class. You know, another liberal plot to destroy America with thinking individuals……
I look forward to Chris serving in Iraq.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:02 amActually you’re wrong - if you’re here illegally you have NO RIGHTS. except the right to be arrested and deported.
Comment by chris
You think you can’t be labeled a terrorist? Heh. Boy you better wtfu.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:02 am#91. people breaking the law have no rights. bottom line.
when are you going to get that through your thick skull?
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:03 amI agree kate, but it’s a no win situation for anyone. If you target the large companies, and do a “raid”, it is considered racist. (how, I’m not sure) The people crossing and working are doing the same thing any one of us would do to support our families, if we were in similiar circumstances. (I know I would anyhow) those that are here should get worked into the system, so as to become TAXPAYING citizens. Concentrate on border security first, and work with the people here to get legal.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:03 amBut, if they get caught, and are illegal, back across they go, no questions asked. Have a 6 month “amnesty period” where everyone can at least get documented. After that, if you get caught, you get bounced.
Libs, I think I solved the problem. The illegal immigrants can stay here. We can tax their wages, but they will not qualify for income tax or Social Security because they have an illegal status within our country. This will will fix the large debt within our economy and Social Security. Yeah!!! Comment by Daryll
Another 16 year old homeschooler Daryll?
Do you realize many of these illegals use fake ID’s and DO pay hundreds of millions if not billions in taxes and social security? Do you ever use your brain for anything other than repeating pundit points?
Comment by Null and Void — May 2, 2007 @ 9:52 am
That’s false. The La Raza group proclaims that these illegal immigrants pay taxes, but IRS reports contradict that belief. Also, If they did pay taxes, they should not qualify for income tax or Social Security because of their illegal status.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:04 amThe stormtroopers are becoming more common.
It’s not just seen at events to stop globalization anymore. The media defended the abusive tactics saying those protesters are hippies and radicals.
Comment by Sam — May 2, 2007 @ 9:40 am
The police are allowed to use force to disperse a crowd so says the LAW. This has in fact been the case since the rule of law was established. The police I’m sure could not tell what status a person had at this protest (citizen or alien) but if they were ordered to disperse the crowd then they did exactly that and there was no riot, death and minimal destruction of public or private property…
My point is that exercising the 1st Amendment must respect local laws, traffic, sanitary conditions, tax payers, merchants, rule of law and even the police. For instance if you throw a rock at a cop and the cops catch you, your ass is grass! @ a minimum throwing stuff at cops or trespassing or looting, or disorderly conduct or destruction of property or violence etc are all things that could END a protest…
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:04 amYou think the LAW only applies to the police, Juan?
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:05 am#93 -
regardless of what you may think; I’d bet a million dollars I’m more educated than you and have the diplomas to prove it. So don’t talk down to me.
#94 - I wouldn’t serve in Iraq b/c I am 100% against that war. Therefore I chose not to join the military. I can find no way that your comment relates to this thread; please try to remain focused and on topic.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:06 amComment by chris
Yawn, another GrOPer trying to distance themself away from the culture of corruption they helped to create……
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:08 amI guess beating women is within the LAW. Right, chris?
Comment by Juan C — May 2, 2007 @ 9:59 am
I’ll like to know the other side of the story. Why did the police go in shooting rubber bullets? while most of the people in these demonstrations are usually peaceful, you always have your anarchists and idiots that just want to cause trouble.
the rally here in chicago was full of anarchists, communists, anti-american, anti-military fools. thus, i am sure that the one in LA which was larger was full of the same. Just because these individuals flew American flags, it doesn’t mean that the marches were in any shape, way or form, pro-American.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:08 amThat’s false. The La Raza group proclaims that these illegal immigrants pay taxes, but IRS reports contradict that belief. Also, If they did pay taxes, they should not qualify for income tax or Social Security because of their illegal status.
Comment by Daryll — May 2, 2007 @ 10:04 am
Daryll, actually, a lot of these people do pay income taxes, why? Because they use illegal social securities to obtain jobs, unless you are paid straight up cahs or with a personal check, you pay income taxes.
Now, the problem is that these illegals are stealing the identities of other individuals, using the other person’s name and Social Securities.
I would imagine that the left who loves to claim that they are for the rule of law would be outraged by these illegal immigrants stealing the identities of other individuals and then using them to obtain jobs. These is a federal crime and most legal citizens that do this end up in jail.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:11 amFirst this by Chris:
people breaking the law have no rights. bottom line.
Then this:
I’d bet a million dollars I’m more educated than you and have the diplomas to prove it. So don’t talk down to me.
Yeah, Chris…yeah.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:13 amNull&Void:
please see my above posts. (reading comprehension 101 for you too!).
I have never voted on the GOP ticket. never.
I largely disagree with their policies and programs.
However, there are two issues that I am more conservative on - based upon my own intellectual thinking; and one of those is illegal immigration.
While these people are humans just like the rest of us - as oh so many of you have been more than welcome to point out to me again; that is largely outside the scope of the issue at hand here. Yes, they should be treated as human beings; provided they don’t disrupt our cities and/or do anything illegal. As was pointed out by some above, these crowds threw rocks at the police; that warrants some reaction from the police. Even if it was just one person; a reaction is warranted because these individuals are breaking the law. They have no right to even be in this country.
And that is ALL that this boils down to in my book. These people are breaking the law and need to comply with it in order to remain here. That doesn’t not translate into a GOP mindset. It translates into my own personal view.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:14 amChris,
I spoke off tangents and I apologize. Should have stayed strictly on topic, I agree. Thanks for clearing that up.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:14 amJuan - please quit attacking people on here; it shows your ignorance and inability to engage in a debate or discussion.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:16 amyou always have your anarchists and idiots that just want to cause trouble.
Comment by valiantthehater
Me? You are speaking loosely.
Now, idiots and anarchists are the ones who cause trouble? Are you sure?
I would like to make the same question that you have not answered yet: What do you mean by left?
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:16 amJuan C,
another thing, while illegals and other pro-illegal groups are crying about their treatment here in the USA was they are caught. These same groups turn a blind eye to how countries like Mexico, and other nations treat their illegal immigrants.
I would urge anyone that thinks we treat illegals bad, to go spend some time with the border police of Mexico between Mexico and Guatemala and Belize. You will be shocked at the human right abuses occurring at that border.
We treat illegals like kings and queens compared to how they are treated in most, if not, all other nations.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:18 amI’ll like to know the other side of the story. Why did the police go in shooting rubber bullets?
Why Arnold didn’t want to kill any of his buddies corporations cheap labor force, they would never put up with that. Who would pick those grapes for that expensive wine? YOU? Maybe Chris?
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:19 amWelcome to America! Where you get shot at with Rubber Bullets for peaceful protests with Children in them.
This is Insane, WTF is Chief Bill Bratton doing? This was hardly the LA Riots all over again.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:20 am#91. people breaking the law have no rights. bottom line.
when are you going to get that through your thick skull?
Or, put another way, the police are above or beyond the law once they see someone in violation of it. They can shoot a shoplifter, arrest someone they dislike (and concoct a crime after the fact), and loot their property. After all, offenders have no rights.
But in this country, whether you like it or not, they do have rights. Because if they have no rights, then what rights do you have? In a tyranny, it doesn’t matter if you’ve broken the law–it only matters if killing you would make a good example to others. The bruhaha about immigration is incidental–the real issue is the resorting of these police to political terror.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:20 amAlso: “people breaking the law have no rights. bottom line.”?!?!?
Our you out of your mind? What do you think Miranda is (was?) about?? Ever hear of “Innocent until proven Guilty“?
C’mon…
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:22 amChris,
Exactly, there are many Democrats who are for better border control and stricter border laws and who just want the current laws int he books to be enforced.
there are republicans who don’t want border control, who love illegal immigrants, etc, etc
and the opposite of these are true.
this is not a partisan issue, it is an issue that cuts through both parties.
the bottom line is that we need to do a much better job at controlling our borders and BOTH parties have done NOTHING to achieve this.
I would also say that for the illegals that are already here, something must be done. we must fine a humane solution to this problem.
and more importantly, every single company that knowingly higher illegals, must be fined heavily. If the incentive to come illegally wasn’t here, it would not happen, right?
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:22 amIt doesn’t matter whether these people are citizens or not. Does this mean that our police can beat anyone anywhere, so long as they’re not citizens? That’s a very dangerous notion. Where does that train stop, hm? Sub noncitizens with communists, with liberals, with democrats, with nonrepublicans; or maybe they’ll just use the ideal umbrella phrase of ‘unamerican.’
Additionally to all this, those protestors were not proven illegal. They could be legal residents protesting to help their latino brotherin - where’s the wrongdoing there, hmm?
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:22 amS.D.,
They really have no business involving their children in their protests.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:24 amThe LAPD once again handled the situation the wrong way. What was the purpose of shooting rubber bullets? With that being said, I do believe that the people protesting should not be allowed amnesty. They did come here illegally, the first thing they did in the country was break the law. I live in Tucson and my sister in law is a nurse, the hospital she worked at closed down a few months ago. Now she is working at a new hospital and they just had massive lay-offs. This is because of the illegal immigrants getting free health care. Border states are being crippled by illegal immigration. Something needs to be done.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:24 am113.
you are incorrect in some aspects.
you mistakenly assume that the every day shoplifter, looters, etc are on the same footing as the illegal immigrations. there is a distinction though.
the common criminal is a citizen of the US - therefore they have some rights. even their rights however are tempered by the fact they broke the law. thus their rights are limited.
in contrast, the illegal immigrant is not a citizen of the US - therefore they do not have any of the rights that come along with US citizenship.
that’s the distinction you missed.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:24 ambob, thank you for your suggestion.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:24 amAlso: “people breaking the law have no rights. bottom line.�!?!?
Our you out of your mind? What do you think Miranda is (was?) about?? Ever hear of “Innocent until proven Guilty“?
C’mon…
Comment by S.D. — May 2, 2007 @ 10:22 am
Actually, this applies to American citizens and legal residents of the USA. Illegals don’t have the same rights granted to us under the American Constitution.
they fall under international treaties that countries have with the USA. and there is no such thing as Miranda rights in international treaties.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:24 am114.
please see my post immediately above to clarify the distinction you too missed. Miranda rights and ‘innocent until proven guilty’ are rights given to citizens under the constitution.
they are not rights given to non-citizens, which illegal immigrants are.
until they are citizens; they do not have these rights.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:25 amNull and Void,
You liberlas should be up in arms on the fact that many of these illegals are hired, first of all, illegally and they are paid the lowest wages possible and have no benfits at all.
and yes, if there wasn’t a pull of illegals that were highered a cheap wages to pick grapes, you can be sure that Americans would do this job.
It is a huge myth the whole thing that illegals are doing the job that Americans won’t do.
Here in Illinois there was a raid in which about a hundred illegals were caught. It was in a poor neighborhood of Illinois. Once the word got out that this place needed new workers, there was a huge line of LEGAL workers, Americans mostly, who were looking for jobs. This has been repeated in many cities.
Regadless, Liberals claim to love the rule of law, why aren’t liberals outraged at the illegals who steal other people’s identity, social security, driver’s licenses, name, etc so they can obtain a job. Is this not illegal? I thought you liberlas loved the rule of law and demand that Republicans follow it. I guess you only push for the rule of law when it is convinient to you, eh?
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:29 amThese people are breaking the law and need to comply with it in order to remain here. -Chris
Blah Blah Blah, more blame the victim crappola.
But why are they breaking the law? Who’s assisting them in breaking the law? Who’s breaking the laws by hiring them? Why aren’t you focused on the real problem, the employers?
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:29 amValiant, what is the left for you? You seem to use that word a lot. I want to know.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:30 am125…
I don’t disagree - the employers should be punished as well.
But just because employers are hiring the illegals and thereby encouraging them to come here illegally - that doesn’t excuse their own criminal conduct.
They’re still here illegally. Hiring them is also illegal.
The companies should be fined; and the individuals should be deported.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:33 amI haven’t read your constitution, but even I know the Bill of Rights applies to all persons, not just citizens.
Likewise for the Constitution in regard to laws, as explained by a U.S. Assistant Attorney General here: http://tinyurl.com/yt8pr2
You must feel special.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:35 amSaywho - you racist piece of crap.
Your type is the reason there’s facism in the world. You enable your leaders to do so. You looked the other way when Hitler rounded up people in your neighborhood. You took the good jobs in communist russia and turned in your friends. Loyal to the government, to the core.
You piece of crap.
You label peaceful protestors waving american flags as something less than human, and accuse them of using their children as shields? We all have a right to peacefully assemble, no matter our immigration status. And we have a right to do so as families. It’s ok when they pick your vegetables and clean your dishes, but not ok to walk on your streets?
You act like these people are terrorists or something. Or Palestinians pelted by Israeli rubber bullets in a war zone. This is America!
Comment by — May 2, 2007 @ 9:52 am
You forgot a few points about me so I will list them:
1) American Citizen
2) Property Owner
3) Taxpayer
4) Constitutionalist
5) Democratic
6) Hard Worker
7) Parent
8) Honest
9) Law Abiding
10) Since I was born in the 60ies your whole post is flawed. More than that I’m not a racist and your comments are simply ignorant, negative, abusive, crap! Shame on you Sam! You hit a good point about peaceful assembly, however this turned into a less than peaceful assembly and at that point the police did what they DO.