Immigration rally disrupted by police.
By on May 2nd, 2007 at 1:54 am
Immigration rally disrupted by police.
CNN reported a disturbing account from an immigration rally in Los Angeles yesterday:
It was a dramatic and chaotic end to what was otherwise a peaceful day here in Los Angeles. … Police started to move and disperse the crowd and fired rubber bullets, dozens of rubber bullets, into the crowd. People went running and fleeing, trying to get out of their way, and there really was, there didn’t seem to be any warning. Police just took ground and moved forward and started firing on this crowd. … There were a lot of children and families at the rally, in the crowd, and I’ve got to tell you, there really wasn’t a lot of warning.
Watch the report:
[flv http://video.thinkprogress.org/2007/05/immig51.320.240.flv]
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So, first the CIA spends billions creating terrorists to use “against” the “evil empire” of the soviets, then our Fairness Doctrine and Equal Time provisions instituted following WW2 are summarily stripped, then, after Cheney and Bush bamboozle and propagandize in this deregulated media environment, finally manage to steal the US elections in an outright theft in our Supreme Court, then, after 9/11, even though they had since 1993 to catch whomever tried to blow up the WTC the first time, they use the existance of those very same terrorists which they originally created as a pretext to now “crack down” on “terrorism” by entirely dismantling our U.S. constitutional rights of privacy and freedom, all while “justifying” this on the basis that the “technology is changing”, yet at the top of this whole international scam is technology you have never heard of and secretive groups of billionaires running all of the countries to begin with. It’s all a big joke designed to undo everything generations of Americans have fought and died for, in order to institute a fascist “total surveillance” dictatorship with no protections, no rights, no privacy and no real security, except for the spooks, goons, and brownshirt collaborators foisting this despicable nazism on America under the guise of “patriotism” in order to effectively destroy it. When do they show the “hearings”? at 2:30 in the morning on CSPAN, and every other question they insist on answering in “closed session”, while mumbling platitudes about “the President” who STOLE election to justify this completely unamerican fascistic garbage. Meanwhile, there is no protection against any of this, or against the actual domestic terrorism which is encouraged and conducted against private US individuals, they routinely violate all of our laws to begin with, and now they are rushing and rushing to “legitimate” the anti-human illegal and immoral operations they have already conducted and are conducting every day by getting “new” laws “passed” to cover their criminal asses, all while a growing number of Americans are demanding Dual Impeachment. This is nothing less than the planned death of American Freedom and Democracy at the hands of totalitarian monsters, and it has been carried out for a very long time. Kabuki hearings in D.C. are not going to do anything; Immediate Dual Impeachment is the only possible antivenom for this traitorous GOP snakebite which has already infected plenty of weakened and succeptible Americans in both parties. Bottom line is if some cheetohhead maroon at the tasteefreeze decides to lable you a “terrorist”, which he has every incentive and encouragement to do, the entire mindcontrol apparatus of the hyperpolitical uberhysterical globalist corporatist media state gets turned against you. Enough is enough already. It’s six years past time to impeach.
=*=
May 2nd, 2007 at 2:03 amWhy didnt they just use real bullets? It´s not like they are real citizens, right?
May 2nd, 2007 at 2:03 amI really hate to see this. I don’t know if there is any way we can turn back the tide. Even if we busted a cap on Limpballs and The Manne, what good would it do…the damage has already been done. Our fascist nightmare has just begun.
May 2nd, 2007 at 2:08 amSo, first the CIA spends billions creating terrorists to use “against” the “evil empire” of the soviets, then our Fairness Doctrine and Equal Time provisions instituted following WW2 are summarily stripped, then, after Cheney and Bush bamboozle and propagandize in this deregulated media environment, finally manage to steal the US elections in an outright theft in our Supreme Court, then, after 9/11, even though they had since 1993 to catch whomever tried to blow up the WTC the first time, they use the existance of those very same terrorists which they originally created as a pretext to now “crack down” on “terrorism” by entirely dismantling our U.S. constitutional rights of privacy and freedom, all while “justifying” this on the basis that the “technology is changing”, yet at the top of this whole international scam is technology you have never heard of and secretive groups of billionaires running all of the countries to begin with. It’s all a big joke designed to undo everything generations of Americans have fought and died for, in order to institute a fascist “total surveillance” dictatorship with no protections, no rights, no privacy and no real security, except for the spooks, goons, and brownshirt collaborators foisting this despicable nazism on America under the guise of “patriotism” in order to effectively destroy it. When do they show the “hearings”? at 2:30 in the morning on CSPAN, and every other question they insist on answering in “closed session”, while mumbling platitudes about “the President” who STOLE election to justify this completely unamerican fascistic garbage. Meanwhile, there is no protection against any of this, or against the actual domestic terrorism which is encouraged and conducted against private US individuals, they routinely violate all of our laws to begin with, and now they are rushing and rushing to “legitimate” the anti-human illegal and immoral operations they have already conducted and are conducting every day by getting “new” laws “passed” to cover their criminal asses, all while a growing number of Americans are demanding Dual Impeachment. This is nothing less than the planned death of American Freedom and Democracy at the hands of totalitarian monsters, and it has been carried out for a very long time. Kabuki hearings in D.C. are not going to do anything; Immediate Dual Impeachment is the only possible antivenom for this traitorous GOP snakebite which has already infected plenty of weakened and succeptible Americans in both parties. Bottom line is if some cheetohhead maroon at the tasteefreeze decides to lable you a “terrorist”, which he has every incentive and encouragement to do, the entire mindcontrol apparatus of the hyperpolitical uberhysterical globalist corporatist media state gets turned against you. The state has trillions of dollars of your money which they are using in a war on you. Enough is enough already. It’s six years past time to impeach.
=*=
May 2nd, 2007 at 2:10 amLA cops, go figure. Everywhere else in the US (and there were tons of protests today) was peaceful. Mark Furmanitis must really infect the LA police department.
May 2nd, 2007 at 2:11 amMilwaukee was fine and it is one of the most divided cities in the country.
May 2nd, 2007 at 2:12 amAnd today was the 15th anniversary of the Rodney King riots.
May 2nd, 2007 at 2:15 amthe ex CIA student Cooper was very interested in the rubber bullet, “can you squeeze it”, wonder what the point of that was. To down play the pain it causes.
It was also really nice of the thug to jab the woman as she was trying to help another lady up from the ground.
Any way, take our rights to peacefully protest, and it’s on.
May 2nd, 2007 at 2:18 am#7 Those crazy LA cops!!! I am thinking they need a leave of absence. Especially the chief.
May 2nd, 2007 at 2:18 amWhat is the point of shooting into a crowd of peaceful protestors? I am thinking these guys need to cut back on the HGH shots.
May 2nd, 2007 at 2:20 amIf businesses and corporations were held to the law, made to account for illegally hiring the undocumented, then we would not be having these problems. This is another screw job be the Reagan administration – turn a blind eye to those employers breaking the law – all for big business.
May 2nd, 2007 at 2:26 amJPark, the guys who staff the police force and who man the prisons are filled to the brim of their hats with hate speech every day. When I was falsely arrested in Virginia, I saw this with stunning clarity. As I sat there in the van with chains on my hands and feet, the guards kept the radio tuned to Limpballs to get the latest update. Something has to be done about the rampant immorality of the talk-radio figures and the televangelists. What that something needs to be should be the subject for national debate.
May 2nd, 2007 at 2:44 am“I really hate to see this. I don’t know if there is any way we can turn back the tide. Even if we busted a cap on Limpballs and The Manne, what good would it do…the damage has already been done. Our fascist nightmare has just begun.” –stonehinge
NONSENSE. Look, we have had HUNDREDS of peaceful protests in Los Angeles, and the LAPD has been cool throughout. I hear exactly the same thing from San Francisco, btw.
All it would have taken to set off such a police response is a couple of rockthrowers. There are nitwits in Hollywood (near MacArthur Park, where I heard this happened) who are into inciting the LAPD, and there are radicalized factions which have beefs with the LAPD anyhow, many of them CONFUSING, as you do, ’stonehenge,’ a single incident with their epic fight ungainst world domination, or something.
City cops are NOT representatives of our federal problems. They are city cops. Don’t throw rocks at them as if they were ‘the Man,’ or at least don’t do it when children are present.
And, for reference, I personally participated in stopping a similar event two years ago, when with other older activists we stopped some younger people from confronting the LAPD while children were present.
What those clowns said was something like “let the revolution start here.” It is easy to understand how the rhetoric makes some people radicalized, but it is easy to see how that radicalization and a crowd could make some try to take a public opportunity to cause chaos, thinking they are serving a function by doing so.
I’m sorry I wasn’t there to interfere with that effort to turn YET ANOTHER PEACEFUL MASS PROTEST into a fiasco. And then trading on it around here as if it’s a sign of something. It’s an anomaly — not the rule.
May 2nd, 2007 at 4:30 amOur fascist nightmare has just begun.
Comment by stonehinge — May 2, 2007 @ 2:08 am
Well it’s about fkn time.
We’ve been hearing for 6 years that this administration was akin to the Nazis and Bush akin to Hitler.
So far they haven’t managed to pull anything that hasn’t happened before in the US, let alone moved into Nazi Germany territory.
May 2nd, 2007 at 4:34 am“LA cops, go figure. Everywhere else in the US (and there were tons of protests today) was peaceful. Mark Furmanitis must really infect the LA police department.” –JPark
Bullshit. HUNDREDS of peaceful protests have taken place. Chief Bratton has kept the lid on during some VERY dangerous situations in the last seven years of federal tyranny.
Fourth of July three years ago I was told by CHP that they had a meeting in Sacto and had decideed to ‘be on the right side of this mess when it’s all over’ — which both recognized the danger of this out-of-control Executive and also REAFFIRMED their commitment to the rule of law and professionalism, not hooliganism like the Bushies.
Your experience in VA is not representative, stonehenge. Los Angeles is one of the most integrated cities in the world. We have something like 250 cultures, living here together, pretty much in harmony. This is NOT Virginia.
The same does not go for the Sheriff, which are NOT nice people in general. If there is a danger, it mainly comes from them, not the LAPD, most of whom live here (unlike the Sheriffs, who tend to live in Riverside or other rightwing haven outside Los Angeles).
May 2nd, 2007 at 4:40 amSure thing, Kilo, they’ve only killed 1 million Iraqis during an illegal invasion in which our National Guard has been raped, while employing tens of thousands of mercenaries and giving them a legal waiver.
• Hey, remind me of any other time in U.S. history where deployment of mercenaries next to our troops — with a total legal waiver — was mainstreamed.
During which events they have set up a network of illegal secret prisons and abducted people en masse, taking bounty on thousands of innocent persons, holding hostages, violating all international treaty laws and US war crimes law (before amended in a corrupt process), while denying habeas corpus on a scale NEVER seen before in US history.
And on and on. Your kind of Apology Troll apparently never deviates from the shit-eating stupidity of your kind.
May 2nd, 2007 at 4:44 am(Well, of the years Bratton was here, which isn’t yet seven)
May 2nd, 2007 at 4:45 amWell, LET THE RIOTS COME!
I have a baaad feeling about this.
May 2nd, 2007 at 5:01 amAs further evidence, here is a great shot of the downtown protest, which was completely peaceful:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/eecue/480389988/
If the LAPD was on some sort of immigrant bashing bit, then why didn’t they show it downtown?
What’s the difference? A couple of miles, but far enough from Hollywood that the few malcontents didn’t show up to cause problems.
May 2nd, 2007 at 5:41 amLike I said, ain’t nothing un-American or new so far.
Did I miss something ? Are we no longer doing Vietnam comparisons ?
Why ?
Was this how the US has become the equivalent of Nazi Germany ? Because of the need for security details, which US troops aren’t responsible for, which are filled by private security contractors.
Was that relevant in some way or just your convoluted way of agreeing with me ?
Where have they abducted people en masse ? The only numbers which would qualify for such a statement would be surrendering brigades of Iraqi army and Taliban at the fall of each regime. Hardly out of the norm for war zones or typical for the numbers of people detained in groups since in either war zone.
The most recent report on Iraqi detainees from WaPo was the US is holding 18000 detainees, for a country that is in the midst of almost all-out civil war with that scale of bloodshed, anarchy and lawlessness.
Did I miss something else or were those comparisons between Iraqi markets and ones in Indiana no longer ridiculous ?
Or the crime rate in Baghdad and Washinton no longer laughable ?
Because I’d suggest detaining 18,000 in Iraq is pretty tame when compared to prison populations of both of those and their comparitive crime rates and populations.
In fact, since this is the case why are you not complaining about the Washinton police detaining Americans en masse ?
Still waiting for something new to pop up.
Except for the times it was denied on a scale 10 times this. One wonders how it is “Nazis” didn’t need explaining but American participation in WW2 apparently does.
My kind of “apology troll” ? WTF would that be exactly ?
The only apology that I can imagine you’ve interpreted from what I’ve written is one which is still owed all the countries and populations the US has visited these crimes on before doing it this time.
Not really relevant to me, but hey, who’s betting on nutjobs like you to make sense.
Still the “troll” part would remain baffling given that comparing the US to Nazis is practically a sport here.
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:08 amIs that what you meant, idiot ?
Or were you just throwing some labels around in lieu of having any kind of relevant response to make.
policemen should be required to wear cameras in their badge and belt buckles. first time both cameras are not filming while on the job,you’re fired , no more law enforcement work for you , any where period. any decent peace officer would see that this protects them as well as the public. it would make convictions a snap. it would unclog court systems, and in general make the public safe, like what governments should do . cameras in society can work, but instead of filming the public at large, we should be focusing the cameras on the leaders who are in charge.
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:12 amYou’re right. For one thing there are twice as many race-hate groups in CA than VA and more than 6 times the amount of race-hate incidents.
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:15 amThat kind of cultural harmony.
Well it would be quite an effort to detail on how many levels this is a ridiculous suggestion.
So how about instead you just tell us you would be happy to be sacked and denied any future work in your field based on the same test.
That test being whether 2 pieces of sensitive electronics equipment you can’t repair or even tell if they are operating, stop operating. In particular, you’ve specified that if this electronics equipment stops operating during a riot. Wow. So many levels of dumb.
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:21 amWhat PAP!
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:06 amBush Regime is responsible, because they are keeping the Mexican border wide open and the entire poverty stricken population of Mexico is pouring across it. The border has to be secured to prevent a further influx and Mexican government must be forced to employ their citizens.
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:40 amI hope this event does not trigger a racial war in California, but if it happens then Bush himself would be responsible. I was born and raised in California and watching my birth state self-destruct is sad.
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:48 am1. Welcome to the Police State.
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:53 amthomas sewell will get wet watching that tape.
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:56 amPaul in LA–
A few nitwits isn’t enough to justify indiscriminate firing into a crowd.
This is why every abuse of police power has to be scrutinized. To dismiss this as an isolated incident is dangerous. If they fired dozens of rounds into the crowd without warning, their supervisors either gave the order or else numerous individual officers took it upon themselves to fire (a la the Boston Massacre) and their supervisors were powerless to stop the firing once it started. In either case, given that there doesn’t (yet) seem any provocation in the crowd strong enough to merit this response, those who gave the orders or assumed the authority must become an example. Or else the example will be that anyone in legitimate authority can assault peaceful protesters without consequence.
We have too many examples of that.
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:56 amLos Angeles is a tender box that has ignited in racial riots in the past, so if this triggers another one it could spread all over California, then spread to other states with Latino populations like Texas and Arizona.
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:59 amHonestly it IS time to teach those wetbacks a lesson.
Send them back. Theyre all subhumans anyway.
How can we make money off their misery….
Thats what theyre thinking in the white house.
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:02 amAnd some wonder why we call them “pigs”.
Best intentions and all that…
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:04 amCinco de Mayo celebration occurs this Saturday, so I fear something bad starting this weekend. Racial tensions could overheat and just explode.
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:06 amVery brave police- hitting women and shooting unarmed peaceful protesters.
These cops day will come and we will see them running like the corrupt pigs in New Orleans.
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:07 amYou people are blaming Bush & Cheney for this? You need to back up on this. #1 something may have happened that we didn’t see causing the cops to move in and break things up. In other words we don’t know the full story (yet). #2 these protests are “FOR” allowing illegal aliens to have citizenship in mass. When the welted guy was interviewed he said, “We are here to demand our immigration rights!” I got news for you and him, if he is not a US Citizen he has NO RIGHT TO DEMAND some other RIGHT. Citizens don’t even have the RIGHT TO DEMAND some other RIGHT.
Immigration in and of itself is not a RIGHT. Immigration is an orderly change that is based on privilege and is not a right. By the way most property in the US is OWNED by somebody or some group. We already have a few million HOMLESS CITIZENS so you contend that we need to ADD these 12,000,000 aliens to the mix? Then what happens with the next 12,000,000 behind them…?
I can hear it now, “Hey! You let them in, we DEMAND OUR IMMIGRATION RIGHTS TOO!”
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:23 amRubber bullets are NOT “non-lethal” they are called “less-lethal” by the police.
Just one recent example:
Student killed during postgame celebration
Woman hit by projectile fired by officer; police take full responsibility
Posted: Thursday October 21, 2004 4:35PM; Updated: Thursday October 21, 2004 8:42PM
BOSTON (AP) — A 21-year-old college student died Thursday of a head injury after a clash between police and a crowd of Red Sox fans who poured into the streets outside Fenway Park to celebrate their team’s victory over the New York Yankees.
Victoria Snelgrove, a journalism major at Emerson College in Boston, was shot in the eye by a projectile fired by an officer on crowd-control duty. The nature of the projectile was not immediately identified but the weapons are meant to be non-lethal.
During a news conference carried live on local television stations, Boston Police Commissioner Kathleen O’Toole expressed the department’s sympathies to Snelgrove’s family and said the agency “accepts full responsibility for the death of Victoria Snelgrove.
“The Boston Police Department is devastated by this tragedy. This terrible event should never have happened,” O’Toole said.
Snelgrove, of East Bridgewater, was among 16 people hurt in Boston’s Kenmore Square neighborhood early Thursday morning, after thousands of fans spilled out onto the streets to celebrate the Red Sox winning the American League pennant. She died at Brigham and Women’s Hospital later in the day.
“It appears from evidence we have reviewed thus far that Tori was killed when she was hit in the eye by a projectile fired as officers tried to control mobs outside the ballpark,” O’Toole said. “Designated officers were equiped with less-lethal systems that use projectiles designed to break upon impact, dousing the target with [pepper-like] spray.”
For more info:
The National Police Accountability Project (NPAP)
The National Police Accountability Project (NPAP), a project of the National Lawyers Guild, is a non-profit organization, dedicated to ending police abuse of authority through coordinated legal action, public education, and support for grassroots and victims’ organizations combating police misconduct.
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:32 amSaywho > 1 to 2 million illegals have crossed the Mexican border into US every year since Bush has been president. A couple of million came in during Clinton’s presidency. Both of them failed to secure the border.
I am an advocate of securing the border to prevent any more influx of illegals pouring across it, but police shooting the ones already here with rubber bullits and beating them just ignites racial problems.
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:33 amDivide, Circle back and capture the cops. Then fuckem up good.
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:36 amWhy would anyone start getting violent at all? Isnt this America?
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:38 am#
You people are blaming Bush & Cheney for this? You need to back up on this. #1 something may have happened that we didn’t see causing the cops to move in and break things up. In other words we don’t know the full story (yet). #2 these protests are “FOR†allowing illegal aliens to have citizenship in mass. When the welted guy was interviewed he said, “We are here to demand our immigration rights!†I got news for you and him, if he is not a US Citizen he has NO RIGHT TO DEMAND some other RIGHT. Citizens don’t even have the RIGHT TO DEMAND some other RIGHT.
Immigration in and of itself is not a RIGHT. Immigration is an orderly change that is based on privilege and is not a right. By the way most property in the US is OWNED by somebody or some group. We already have a few million HOMLESS CITIZENS so you contend that we need to ADD these 12,000,000 aliens to the mix? Then what happens with the next 12,000,000 behind them…?
I can hear it now, “Hey! You let them in, we DEMAND OUR IMMIGRATION RIGHTS TOO!â€
Comment by Saywho — May 2, 2007 @ 8:23 am
The RIGHTS in the Consitution extend to ALL CITIZENS of the world. PERIOD. I am done with the within our borders crap. The LIBERAL document is meant to be the context to a world human rights document. Figure it out schmuck.
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:39 amI would rather have muslims here in the US than Mexican cut throats robbing us with no morals at all
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:43 amI thought America was built by immigrants.
Maybe I’m wrong, but I seem to remember hearing something about that a while ago.
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:45 amdear #41.
yes – America was built by immigrants. LEGAL IMMIGRANTS.
ILLEGAL ONES have NO RIGHTS. I agree with #2 – why didn’t they just use real bullets?
I am so sick to death of hearing these people whine about how they’re oppressed and scorned by society. Yes – you are – b/c you’re criminals!
Obey the law or get the hell out of our country you scumbags. Bottom line.
The problem is not with the law; it’s with the illegals disobeying it. And in my opinion it is high time that the US actively began enforcing that law.
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:48 ampolice beating immigrants? consternos are surely salivating and becoming aroused about now…
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:49 amOf course the illegal immigrants and their supporters did nothing wrong. They never do. They are just such peaceful people.
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:49 amAmen! Citizenship is NOT a RIGHT for any of us. It is a privilege. It comes after following the rules for getting it. Obey the law and follow the rules or shut up already. These illegals should consider themselves dang lucky they’re still in this country today given the fact that they’re breaking the law.
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:50 amTP, you’re a liar. How about telling the whole truth. Tell the libs what caused retaliation by the police authorities. Didn’t they throw rocks and contraband at the police, hmm? These are the same illegals that are seeking a path towards citizenship. They must understand that they broke the law and must pay the consequences.
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:52 amDaryll > do not incite any more violence over this incident. The police overreacted to a few rock throwers. They should have fired tear gas to disperse the crowd. Shooting at them and then beating them is the worst thing to do.
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:57 amYou people are blaming Bush & Cheney for this? You need to back up on this. #1 something may have happened that we didn’t see causing the cops to move in and break things up. In other words we don’t know the full story (yet). #2 these protests are “FOR†allowing illegal aliens to have citizenship in mass. When the welted guy was interviewed he said, “We are here to demand our immigration rights!†I got news for you and him, if he is not a US Citizen he has NO RIGHT TO DEMAND some other RIGHT. Citizens don’t even have the RIGHT TO DEMAND some other RIGHT.
Immigration in and of itself is not a RIGHT. Immigration is an orderly change that is based on privilege and is not a right. By the way most property in the US is OWNED by somebody or some group. We already have a few million HOMLESS CITIZENS so you contend that we need to ADD these 12,000,000 aliens to the mix? Then what happens with the next 12,000,000 behind them…?
I can hear it now, “Hey! You let them in, we DEMAND OUR IMMIGRATION RIGHTS TOO!â€
Comment by Saywho — May 2, 2007 @ 8:23 am
Saywho, thank you. It is a privilege to be a U.S. citizen not a right.
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:58 amI am glad that the police did NOT use the new microwave device that cooks your skin when hit by it.
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:58 amWhat a sad day for our Constitution, and for the people of Los Angeles.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:00 amDaryll > do not incite any more violence over this incident. The police overreacted to a few rock throwers. They should have fired tear gas to disperse the crowd. Shooting at them and then beating them is the worst thing to do.
Comment by Jay Randal — May 2, 2007 @ 8:57 am
It’s considered assault.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:00 amI wonder if the meathead Arnold the Gov. terminator ordered the police to use force against the protestors in Los Angeles?
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:03 amI am an advocate of securing the border to prevent any more influx of illegals pouring across it, but police shooting the ones already here with rubber bullits and beating them just ignites racial problems.
Comment by Jay Randal — May 2, 2007 @ 8:33 am
There is no doubt in my mind that large scale race wars are around the corner! Again, watch that video and you will see that we didn’t see the trigger but only the tail end. Beyond that you also want anarchy in the US based on what you said… I stand by my last post and I pointed out that blaming Bush & Co for this local police action is a stretch. According to the police there was a justification. By the way police can in fact disperse crowds by force and it can even be lethal force if necessary.
In this case it was not lethal and if you watch it you can see that the cops were holding back. Crowd control is difficult and by the looks of it the police in LA did a fantastic job. Illegal aliens are breaking the law just by being here. Now if you want to get into it, start with the Mayor of LA or the police chief. To be complete go back to that protester guy with the welt and ask him how it is that he can DEMAND something and not be another anarchist like you!
Keep in mind that public protests using city property and streets can be halted at any time if crowd control becomes an issue. The police allowed the protest under strict conditions like all protests these days. You should agree that if the crowd became aggressive, disorderly, destructive, drunken or began to encroach on or use private grounds the police would be well within their rights to use force.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:05 amDear #26.
Don’t be naive – while I would like to blame the illegal immigrant problem on GW, the problem is way beyond that; it rests in an overarching and also underlying problem within our society. First that the law isn’t meant to be obeyed; and secondly that everyone has their rights to this or that. Both are false. The law creates a peaceful society; and all that we enjoy in this country are privileges; namely privileges that come from obeying the laws of this country and abiding by them. Those protesting in the streets cannot do this; hence they have no privileges; let alone any rights.
Furthermore, I hope this tension does trigger a public reaction. You title it a racial war; I would disagree. How can it be racial when the issue is the illegality of these individual’s actions. I, and most American citizens I know are perfectly fine with legal immigration – from whatever country. The problem is illegal immigration – it is WRONG. For you and everyone else out there who tries to degrade this into a racial issue – shame on you; shame on you for promulgating racism in America. For once, focus on the real issue at hand; the illegality of these people’s actions and take a stand for obeying the law.
As an aside to any who may attack my presumption that the law should be obeyed as incorrect; claiming as I have heard so many times that the law is either not enforced, or complicated, or unfair – that is no excuse for the illegality of these people’s actions. And any grant of amnesty would send the WRONG message; it would tell those still waiting for their chance to come here illegally that it is ok to keep trying; that it is ok to break the law in the US; b/c we wouldn’t dare enforce a law for fear it may discriminate against a certain group of individuals. I don’t know about you; but that is NOT the message I want to send the world about the US.
Its high time we enforced our legal immigration laws; requiring these people to go back to their country and follow the established process. Anything less will be an insult not only to the foundation of our country but also to those millions that have followed the rules and legally immigrated into this country. There are no shortcuts to earned privilegees such as citizenship; to allow any such shortcut via amnesty or whatever you wish to label it would mere dilute the significance of any privilege that still exists with holding legal citizenship.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:06 amWhat a sad day for our Constitution, and for the people of Los Angeles.
Comment by RUCerious — May 2, 2007 @ 9:00 am
There isn’t a Constitutional Law that states that illegal immigrants can break the law.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:07 amthe revolution is coming.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:07 am#47 – please don’t tell Daryll not to incite this incident further; it needs incited. It is about time that this country stopped worrying about stepping on people’s toes and actually enforced our laws for LEGAL immigration. The first step in doing that would be to deport those who are here ILLEGALLY!!
Bottom line. It’s not racial. It’s a matter of law.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:08 amDaryll > do not act like an enraged Israeli on here who demand that rock throwers be shot dead on sight. The police wore helmets, shields, and padded armor, so the rocks could not hurt them. They should have fired some tear gas to disperse the crowd, but not fired rubber projectiles, nor beaten women with young children or babies.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:09 am#50 – you claim a sad day for our Constitution? how so? have you read our Constitution? it gives privileges that come with citizenship. Citizenship is thus a pre-requisite for those privileges. Until these individuals protesting in the streets manage to come here legally – the Constitution doesn’t apply to them. they have no privileges.
and #53 – you can’t have a ‘race war’ when the issue is over ‘illegal immigrants’. any race that wants to come here; can do so legally! the fact that those of us who hold a US citizenship don’t want our privilege of citizenship diluted by those coming here illegally doesn’t make this a racial issue. your statements indicate your failure to grasp the issue here.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:12 amThis is a very important attempt by Sen. Leahy to protect Americans from Bush’s Police State.
http://leahy.senate.gov/press/200702/020707.html
…….Yet by the time committee work was completed in the House and the Senate on the Fiscal Year 2006 Defense Authorization Bill, the law had been changed and that useful ambiguity had vanished.
In addition to the cases of insurrection, the Act can now be invoked to restore public order after a terrorist attack, a natural disaster, a disease outbreak, or — and this is extremely broad — “other condition.†Restoring public order has suddenly become an entirely new purpose for the Insurrection Act. And, as if to underscore this fundamental change, the conference committeechanged the name of the Act from “Insurrection†to “Enforcement of the Laws to Restore Public Order.â€
This significant change was made without consulting the Nation’s Governors, mayors, sheriffs, or the National Guard Adjutants General. It was made without consulting the other relevant policy committees in the Senate and the House. It was merely slipped in, at the Administration’s request, as rider to a bill that was hundreds of pages long.
And when the Nation’s Governors learned of the change and expressed their strong opposition, they were ignored, and this facilitation of presidential ability to federalize the National Guard – even over the objections of the Nation’s Governors — remained in the bill that was signed into law by President Bush.
Now this President and future Presidents can more easily take control of the National Guard and use our entire military apparatus for law enforcement at home. In a situation like another Katrina or even a more contained incident like a terrorist incident, the President will be able to bring in federal troops and take away control from the Governors, the Emergency Managers, the Sheriffs, and the state Adjutants General who know their communities best and are responsible for responding…
What we should be doing instead is buttressing the response abilities of these local and state officials. We should ensure every State has a state-of-the-art emergency operations center, that our first responders have the best equipment and training, and that the National Guard has adequate equipment and available people at home to provide support. Any federal assets — military or otherwise — that might come into a State should be in a supporting and not commanding role.
The local officials who know their communities are in the best positions to control the situation, not the President or the military…
Last year’s Insurrection Act rider reflects the general lack of close
oversight that has taken a toll on our system of government. I hope the days of rubberstamping are over, and I hope the Senate will quickly remedy this situation by considering and passing the bill that we introduce today.
# # # # #
Text of legislation, S.513.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:13 amPress release.
Letter of support from the National Governors Association.
Letter of support from the National Sheriffs’ Associaiton.
Letter of support from the Enlisted Association of the National Guard.
Letter of support from the Adjutants General of the United States.
Letter of support from the National Guard Association
http://www.newswithviews.com/Takala/rudy.htm
It would seem the home schooledRepublican mindset never advances past the age of 16. This guy, kid I should say, who is homeschooled (By the TV apparently) reminds me of the graduates (Jake and crowd) of pundit media.
As for these illegals, the problem begins and ends with those who hire and exploit them.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:15 amSaywho > lol I am not an anarchist. I believe the border must be secured, but Bush has done ZERO to secure it, so go yell at him.
Shooting any kind of projectile at protestors can cause a riot. They should have fired tear gas to disperse the crowd. In the clip you can clearly see a cop hitting a woman with children.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:16 amI think this post admits there’s an open-season against the vital police force of the U.S. The officers likely acted appropriately. Immigrants – legally or illegally – are capable of committing crimes, too. The LAPD likely operated on some legit red flag.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:18 amWelcome to Amerika. Used to be (when America still existed) that police saw themselves as citizens who protect our communities, who we could all appreciate and look up to, not mindless storm troopers. Now they are ordered to fire their guns at women and children in peaceful assembly and do so with the eagerness of mad dogs let off chain. What is next, boot stomping pregnant women in our streets, night raids on our homes, or shooting us in our pews at Sunday congregation? Can you seriously believe they wouldn’t? Remember, this is how they make a living! If this incident isn’t the epitome of cowardliness (grown men fully armed and anonymously cloaked in full riot gear firing on a receding crowd of unarmed, peaceful protesters), then the word simply has no meaning! How do these guys sleep at night? What in God’s name are we doing to our precious sons and daughters that they would so willingly treat their fellow citizens so inhumanely upon an order to do so? Who would give such an order? God help us.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:18 amTo those who are angry and suggest retaliation, I suggest that a violent response to violence only creates a culture of violence (witness Iraq today). We need a culture of peace and non-violence which sometimes means taking the wounds dealt by these misguided souls and refusing to answer violently ourselves. Let them see the results of their actions and make their own justifications before God. Even if they have forgotten, let’s you and me remember the Golden Rule!
64 – you miss the point – the police weren’t acting against our ‘fellow citizens’ they were acting against ILLEGAL immigrants – who have no citizenship; who have no right to jack squat in this country until they follow the law!
I agree with you the Golden Rule should be followed; but even so these people are breaking the law – whether they’re children or pregnant women or whomever. when you break the law you pay the consequences.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:21 am#64
I agree; non-violence would be the best approach; provided it is a non-violent deportation of those people who are breaking the law by being here illegally.
if that can be done; please make it happen now!
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:23 amThanks TP for sending my post to the graveyard. Sheesh
Jay, I agree with you. Most of these meatheads here have no compassion for their fellow human being. All they can see is color. The color is green. If they percieve it to effect them financially, then f*ck humanity! F*ck compassion. Let’s stick it to them, they deserve it! You troglodites make me sick! How do you justify hitting a woman who is helping someone who has fallen/pushed down? Seriously. Justify those individual actions that separates us from beasts. Try if you can.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:23 am#67.
no, actually what we’re saying is ‘f*ck people breaking the law’
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:32 amBluedahlia > thanks. This thread has attracted ranters who believe in police violence. If they watched the video carefully, then they would notice a police officer wacking a woman who has small children. If their wives were beaten like that, then they would be furious about it.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:33 am#68
no, actually what we’re saying is ‘f*ck people breaking the law’
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:37 amThank you for proving my point.
Shooting any kind of projectile at protestors can cause a riot. They should have fired tear gas to disperse the crowd. In the clip you can clearly see a cop hitting a woman with children.
Comment by Jay Randal — May 2, 2007 @ 9:16 am
Did you ever get hit by a teargas canister? Now back in reality ANARCHIST the police did their job and dispersed a disorderly crowd and by the way this is to secure the rights of the taxpaying public. They didn’t pull MP5s or Glocks and they didn’t risk starting a riot by the use of teargas.
In the clip I saw the police dispersing a crowd of what looked like Mexican and/or South American nationals. Many times protesters bring children to hot button protests as a form of human shield. To me this is tantamount to child abuse since at any point the protest could become a mob rules riot! This is a sad truth of how low people will go by dragging children to political rallies and protests to enhance sympathy from people like you.
The woman went one way and the “kid” went the other way. The cop shoved her and he did his job and you didn’t hear him commanding her to get back and disperse but she decided to run at the cop in an attempt to grab something on the ground.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:37 amI believe in LEGAL immigration. My son’s mother-in-law was an immigrant from Germany and waited 5 years to become a LEGAL citizen of the United States.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:38 amWhy should the mexican people get prioroty over the
folks who have gone the way of the LEGAL process.
I am beginning to wonder what rights an American citizen has an illegal does not.
The stormtroopers are becoming more common.
It’s not just seen at events to stop globalization anymore. The media defended the abusive tactics saying those protesters are hippies and radicals. But how are these people hippies? They are families. They get the same soviet-style jack-booted treatment. And the Union protests. Are they hippies? The unionists are herded like cattle into tiny “protest zones” and disrespected by the police. And remember the Janitor’s protest? There were horses stomping all over those employees.
The old adage that says if they come after the first group and you do nothing, they will eventually get around to coming after you, is true. What group of Americans are immune to this kind of treatment? None.
We need a congress with some backbone to stop this kind of treatment, and we need a modern day MLK to stand up to them. None of these police are truly local anymore, they are trained and financed from the federal government, and they all look alike and act alike now. It’s created from the top and it can be stopped at the top. If they won’t do it, we have to demand that they do.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:40 amWhile police brutality, and the abuse of civil authority, has always been an issue to contend with, the concept of “homeland security” and the promulgation of frear since 9/11 has only increased the enabling of law enforcement to feel they have greater powers to intimidate and exert their authority. Many seem to quickly forget that they serve the populace, and appoint themselves lordship over the citizenry who write their paychecks.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:42 amLibs, I think I solved the problem. The illegal immigrants can stay here. We can tax their wages, but they will not qualify for income tax or Social Security because they have an illegal status within our country. This will will fix the large debt within our economy and Social Security. Yeah!!!
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:43 am#70.
and what was your point?
All I got from your post was that you think people say ‘f*ck humanity’ because they’re financially burdened in some way.
where did you pull that from?
my statement that I don’t appreciate people breaking our laws and think they should be enforced didn’t prove that point. way to think logically.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:45 am#71, your right. It’s sick and demented that they would bring their children in to fight their battles. I guess they’re not for peace after all.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:46 amI agree with you the Golden Rule should be followed; but even so these people are breaking the law – whether they’re children or pregnant women or whomever. when you break the law you pay the consequences.
An authoritarian sentiment, if I ever heard one.
Indiscriminate shooting into a crowd is not a lawful response to law violation. Arrest of suspected lawbreakers is the lawful response to a law violation, but the police chose overwhelming violence instead. So what you’re seeing here is not law enforcement but the use of police officers for political terror; terror is the tool of the authoritarian. That is why, I suspect, our authoritarian posters seem to be giving this violence by “legitimate authority” a free pass, while blaming the victims of the violence. They simply approve of terror for its own sake.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:47 am#75.
I’ve got a better solution – the Illegal immigrants can stay here – IF & WHEN they return from a 3 year tour of duty in Iraq. That way we can solve two problems – we’ll cut down the # of actual US citizens dieing in Iraq; and these people presently breaking the law can earn citizenship by showing they will really fight for this country.
go chew on that for a bit!!
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:47 am#67.no, actually what we’re saying is ‘f*ck people breaking the law’
Comment by chris
I like the way you ‘put’ yourself into the scenario by your little tough talk words. Do you jump out of your car and F*ck people speeding? Or driving drunk? I don’t see you out f*cking these politicians getting massaged.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:49 amSaywho > you are a fascistic person for advocating police violence and then justifying it. Tear gas canisters can be rolled into a crowd or tossed. Firing rubber bullets and beating people with batons is the wrong way to disperse crowds.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:50 amAnother black eye for Los Angeles and California as well.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:51 am#80. shut up already, and stop trying to divert the conversation.
Of course I’m consistent; all people breaking the law should be punished.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:51 amSame applies regardless of the offense. This topic is on illegal immigration though. Hence why I was discussing that and not speeding.
Saywho – you racist piece of crap.
Your type is the reason there’s facism in the world. You enable your leaders to do so. You looked the other way when Hitler rounded up people in your neighborhood. You took the good jobs in communist russia and turned in your friends. Loyal to the government, to the core.
You piece of crap.
You label peaceful protestors waving american flags as something less than human, and accuse them of using their children as shields? We all have a right to peacefully assemble, no matter our immigration status. And we have a right to do so as families. It’s ok when they pick your vegetables and clean your dishes, but not ok to walk on your streets?
You act like these people are terrorists or something. Or Palestinians pelted by Israeli rubber bullets in a war zone. This is America!
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:52 amLibs, I think I solved the problem. The illegal immigrants can stay here. We can tax their wages, but they will not qualify for income tax or Social Security because they have an illegal status within our country. This will will fix the large debt within our economy and Social Security. Yeah!!! Comment by Daryll
Another 16 year old homeschooler Daryll?
Do you realize many of these illegals use fake ID’s and DO pay hundreds of millions if not billions in taxes and social security? Do you ever use your brain for anything other than repeating pundit points?
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:52 am#80,
Dealing with police in riot gear is sure better than a visit from ICE.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:55 am“The border has to be secured to prevent a further influx and Mexican government must be forced to employ their citizens.”
If you really want to stop immigrants from coming here then start arresting the corporate fat cats who are hiring them. When was the last time you saw an employer arrested for hiring an illegal? If we cut off the jobs, they will not come. There will be no reason for them to risk their life and freedom to come across the border if there is no job here waiting for them. I was listening to the radio the other day and I heard some talk show host say that we should arrest the employers, but we should not put them in prison. My question is “why not”. If they are breaking the law, they should go to prison. If they don’t, there will be no deterrent to some other employer to hire illegals.
Here in Oregon, many illegals are taking jobs our young people could fill (like labor jobs in the housing industry or landscaping jobs). But, the greedy employers would rather hire an illegal for $8.00 an hour than pay union wages of $16 an hour.
Our illegal alien problem is not with the illegals themselves, it is with the greedy employers who give them a job.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:56 am84:
We all have a right to peacefully assemble, no matter our immigration status.
Actually you’re wrong – if you’re here illegally you have NO RIGHTS. except the right to be arrested and deported.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:57 am’ve got a better solution – the Illegal immigrants can stay here – IF & WHEN they return from a 3 year tour of duty in Iraq. -Chris
How patriotic of our little GOP chickenhawk Chris!
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:57 amthinkpropgress.org is being 100% disingenious. While yes there were American flags all over these marches, there were also a lot of anti-American slogans, El Che signs, Communist flags, etc, etc.
this was the last thing from being a pro-American rally. What happened here is that organizations like ANSWER and other communist organizations learned from last year when people weren’t flying any American flags, insted they were flying Mexican and other countries flag and there was a huge back lash.
this is typical left wing bull trying to pass a fast one over the ignorant masses.
I had friends who went to the march here in Chicago and were stunned at the level of anti-American sentiment coming from these individuals that are begging to become citizens of the USA.
but how can we expect a left wing site to be honest about anything.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:58 amI guess beating women is within the LAW. Right, chris?
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:59 am89. actually I’m a fairly liberal Democrat – just fyi Null & Void.
Get your facts straight.
I am just opposed to people breaking the law, regardless of how or when.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:00 amand what was your point?
All I got from your post was that you think people say ‘f*ck humanity’ because they’re financially burdened in some way.
where did you pull that from?
my statement that I don’t appreciate people breaking our laws and think they should be enforced didn’t prove that point. way to think logically.
Reading comprehension 101 for chris please.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:01 amI don’t have time to explain myself to someone who doesn’t want to understand. I have to get to class. You know, another liberal plot to destroy America with thinking individuals……
I look forward to Chris serving in Iraq.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:02 amActually you’re wrong – if you’re here illegally you have NO RIGHTS. except the right to be arrested and deported.
Comment by chris
You think you can’t be labeled a terrorist? Heh. Boy you better wtfu.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:02 am#91. people breaking the law have no rights. bottom line.
when are you going to get that through your thick skull?
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:03 amI agree kate, but it’s a no win situation for anyone. If you target the large companies, and do a “raid”, it is considered racist. (how, I’m not sure) The people crossing and working are doing the same thing any one of us would do to support our families, if we were in similiar circumstances. (I know I would anyhow) those that are here should get worked into the system, so as to become TAXPAYING citizens. Concentrate on border security first, and work with the people here to get legal.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:03 amBut, if they get caught, and are illegal, back across they go, no questions asked. Have a 6 month “amnesty period” where everyone can at least get documented. After that, if you get caught, you get bounced.
Libs, I think I solved the problem. The illegal immigrants can stay here. We can tax their wages, but they will not qualify for income tax or Social Security because they have an illegal status within our country. This will will fix the large debt within our economy and Social Security. Yeah!!! Comment by Daryll
Another 16 year old homeschooler Daryll?
Do you realize many of these illegals use fake ID’s and DO pay hundreds of millions if not billions in taxes and social security? Do you ever use your brain for anything other than repeating pundit points?
Comment by Null and Void — May 2, 2007 @ 9:52 am
That’s false. The La Raza group proclaims that these illegal immigrants pay taxes, but IRS reports contradict that belief. Also, If they did pay taxes, they should not qualify for income tax or Social Security because of their illegal status.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:04 amThe stormtroopers are becoming more common.
It’s not just seen at events to stop globalization anymore. The media defended the abusive tactics saying those protesters are hippies and radicals.
Comment by Sam — May 2, 2007 @ 9:40 am
The police are allowed to use force to disperse a crowd so says the LAW. This has in fact been the case since the rule of law was established. The police I’m sure could not tell what status a person had at this protest (citizen or alien) but if they were ordered to disperse the crowd then they did exactly that and there was no riot, death and minimal destruction of public or private property…
My point is that exercising the 1st Amendment must respect local laws, traffic, sanitary conditions, tax payers, merchants, rule of law and even the police. For instance if you throw a rock at a cop and the cops catch you, your ass is grass! @ a minimum throwing stuff at cops or trespassing or looting, or disorderly conduct or destruction of property or violence etc are all things that could END a protest…
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:04 amYou think the LAW only applies to the police, Juan?
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:05 am#93 –
regardless of what you may think; I’d bet a million dollars I’m more educated than you and have the diplomas to prove it. So don’t talk down to me.
#94 – I wouldn’t serve in Iraq b/c I am 100% against that war. Therefore I chose not to join the military. I can find no way that your comment relates to this thread; please try to remain focused and on topic.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:06 amComment by chris
Yawn, another GrOPer trying to distance themself away from the culture of corruption they helped to create……
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:08 amI guess beating women is within the LAW. Right, chris?
Comment by Juan C — May 2, 2007 @ 9:59 am
I’ll like to know the other side of the story. Why did the police go in shooting rubber bullets? while most of the people in these demonstrations are usually peaceful, you always have your anarchists and idiots that just want to cause trouble.
the rally here in chicago was full of anarchists, communists, anti-american, anti-military fools. thus, i am sure that the one in LA which was larger was full of the same. Just because these individuals flew American flags, it doesn’t mean that the marches were in any shape, way or form, pro-American.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:08 amThat’s false. The La Raza group proclaims that these illegal immigrants pay taxes, but IRS reports contradict that belief. Also, If they did pay taxes, they should not qualify for income tax or Social Security because of their illegal status.
Comment by Daryll — May 2, 2007 @ 10:04 am
Daryll, actually, a lot of these people do pay income taxes, why? Because they use illegal social securities to obtain jobs, unless you are paid straight up cahs or with a personal check, you pay income taxes.
Now, the problem is that these illegals are stealing the identities of other individuals, using the other person’s name and Social Securities.
I would imagine that the left who loves to claim that they are for the rule of law would be outraged by these illegal immigrants stealing the identities of other individuals and then using them to obtain jobs. These is a federal crime and most legal citizens that do this end up in jail.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:11 amFirst this by Chris:
people breaking the law have no rights. bottom line.
Then this:
I’d bet a million dollars I’m more educated than you and have the diplomas to prove it. So don’t talk down to me.
Yeah, Chris…yeah.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:13 amNull&Void:
please see my above posts. (reading comprehension 101 for you too!).
I have never voted on the GOP ticket. never.
I largely disagree with their policies and programs.
However, there are two issues that I am more conservative on – based upon my own intellectual thinking; and one of those is illegal immigration.
While these people are humans just like the rest of us – as oh so many of you have been more than welcome to point out to me again; that is largely outside the scope of the issue at hand here. Yes, they should be treated as human beings; provided they don’t disrupt our cities and/or do anything illegal. As was pointed out by some above, these crowds threw rocks at the police; that warrants some reaction from the police. Even if it was just one person; a reaction is warranted because these individuals are breaking the law. They have no right to even be in this country.
And that is ALL that this boils down to in my book. These people are breaking the law and need to comply with it in order to remain here. That doesn’t not translate into a GOP mindset. It translates into my own personal view.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:14 amChris,
I spoke off tangents and I apologize. Should have stayed strictly on topic, I agree. Thanks for clearing that up.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:14 amJuan – please quit attacking people on here; it shows your ignorance and inability to engage in a debate or discussion.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:16 amyou always have your anarchists and idiots that just want to cause trouble.
Comment by valiantthehater
Me? You are speaking loosely.
Now, idiots and anarchists are the ones who cause trouble? Are you sure?
I would like to make the same question that you have not answered yet: What do you mean by left?
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:16 amJuan C,
another thing, while illegals and other pro-illegal groups are crying about their treatment here in the USA was they are caught. These same groups turn a blind eye to how countries like Mexico, and other nations treat their illegal immigrants.
I would urge anyone that thinks we treat illegals bad, to go spend some time with the border police of Mexico between Mexico and Guatemala and Belize. You will be shocked at the human right abuses occurring at that border.
We treat illegals like kings and queens compared to how they are treated in most, if not, all other nations.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:18 amI’ll like to know the other side of the story. Why did the police go in shooting rubber bullets?
Why Arnold didn’t want to kill any of his buddies corporations cheap labor force, they would never put up with that. Who would pick those grapes for that expensive wine? YOU? Maybe Chris?
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:19 amWelcome to America! Where you get shot at with Rubber Bullets for peaceful protests with Children in them.
This is Insane, WTF is Chief Bill Bratton doing? This was hardly the LA Riots all over again.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:20 am#91. people breaking the law have no rights. bottom line.
when are you going to get that through your thick skull?
Or, put another way, the police are above or beyond the law once they see someone in violation of it. They can shoot a shoplifter, arrest someone they dislike (and concoct a crime after the fact), and loot their property. After all, offenders have no rights.
But in this country, whether you like it or not, they do have rights. Because if they have no rights, then what rights do you have? In a tyranny, it doesn’t matter if you’ve broken the law–it only matters if killing you would make a good example to others. The bruhaha about immigration is incidental–the real issue is the resorting of these police to political terror.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:20 amAlso: “people breaking the law have no rights. bottom line.”?!?!?
Our you out of your mind? What do you think Miranda is (was?) about?? Ever hear of “Innocent until proven Guilty“?
C’mon…
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:22 amChris,
Exactly, there are many Democrats who are for better border control and stricter border laws and who just want the current laws int he books to be enforced.
there are republicans who don’t want border control, who love illegal immigrants, etc, etc
and the opposite of these are true.
this is not a partisan issue, it is an issue that cuts through both parties.
the bottom line is that we need to do a much better job at controlling our borders and BOTH parties have done NOTHING to achieve this.
I would also say that for the illegals that are already here, something must be done. we must fine a humane solution to this problem.
and more importantly, every single company that knowingly higher illegals, must be fined heavily. If the incentive to come illegally wasn’t here, it would not happen, right?
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:22 amIt doesn’t matter whether these people are citizens or not. Does this mean that our police can beat anyone anywhere, so long as they’re not citizens? That’s a very dangerous notion. Where does that train stop, hm? Sub noncitizens with communists, with liberals, with democrats, with nonrepublicans; or maybe they’ll just use the ideal umbrella phrase of ‘unamerican.’
Additionally to all this, those protestors were not proven illegal. They could be legal residents protesting to help their latino brotherin – where’s the wrongdoing there, hmm?
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:22 amS.D.,
They really have no business involving their children in their protests.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:24 amThe LAPD once again handled the situation the wrong way. What was the purpose of shooting rubber bullets? With that being said, I do believe that the people protesting should not be allowed amnesty. They did come here illegally, the first thing they did in the country was break the law. I live in Tucson and my sister in law is a nurse, the hospital she worked at closed down a few months ago. Now she is working at a new hospital and they just had massive lay-offs. This is because of the illegal immigrants getting free health care. Border states are being crippled by illegal immigration. Something needs to be done.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:24 am113.
you are incorrect in some aspects.
you mistakenly assume that the every day shoplifter, looters, etc are on the same footing as the illegal immigrations. there is a distinction though.
the common criminal is a citizen of the US – therefore they have some rights. even their rights however are tempered by the fact they broke the law. thus their rights are limited.
in contrast, the illegal immigrant is not a citizen of the US – therefore they do not have any of the rights that come along with US citizenship.
that’s the distinction you missed.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:24 ambob, thank you for your suggestion.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:24 amAlso: “people breaking the law have no rights. bottom line.�!?!?
Our you out of your mind? What do you think Miranda is (was?) about?? Ever hear of “Innocent until proven Guilty“?
C’mon…
Comment by S.D. — May 2, 2007 @ 10:22 am
Actually, this applies to American citizens and legal residents of the USA. Illegals don’t have the same rights granted to us under the American Constitution.
they fall under international treaties that countries have with the USA. and there is no such thing as Miranda rights in international treaties.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:24 am114.
please see my post immediately above to clarify the distinction you too missed. Miranda rights and ‘innocent until proven guilty’ are rights given to citizens under the constitution.
they are not rights given to non-citizens, which illegal immigrants are.
until they are citizens; they do not have these rights.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:25 amNull and Void,
You liberlas should be up in arms on the fact that many of these illegals are hired, first of all, illegally and they are paid the lowest wages possible and have no benfits at all.
and yes, if there wasn’t a pull of illegals that were highered a cheap wages to pick grapes, you can be sure that Americans would do this job.
It is a huge myth the whole thing that illegals are doing the job that Americans won’t do.
Here in Illinois there was a raid in which about a hundred illegals were caught. It was in a poor neighborhood of Illinois. Once the word got out that this place needed new workers, there was a huge line of LEGAL workers, Americans mostly, who were looking for jobs. This has been repeated in many cities.
Regadless, Liberals claim to love the rule of law, why aren’t liberals outraged at the illegals who steal other people’s identity, social security, driver’s licenses, name, etc so they can obtain a job. Is this not illegal? I thought you liberlas loved the rule of law and demand that Republicans follow it. I guess you only push for the rule of law when it is convinient to you, eh?
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:29 amThese people are breaking the law and need to comply with it in order to remain here. -Chris
Blah Blah Blah, more blame the victim crappola.
But why are they breaking the law? Who’s assisting them in breaking the law? Who’s breaking the laws by hiring them? Why aren’t you focused on the real problem, the employers?
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:29 amValiant, what is the left for you? You seem to use that word a lot. I want to know.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:30 am125…
I don’t disagree – the employers should be punished as well.
But just because employers are hiring the illegals and thereby encouraging them to come here illegally – that doesn’t excuse their own criminal conduct.
They’re still here illegally. Hiring them is also illegal.
The companies should be fined; and the individuals should be deported.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:33 amI haven’t read your constitution, but even I know the Bill of Rights applies to all persons, not just citizens.
Likewise for the Constitution in regard to laws, as explained by a U.S. Assistant Attorney General here: http://tinyurl.com/yt8pr2
You must feel special.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:35 amSaywho – you racist piece of crap.
Your type is the reason there’s facism in the world. You enable your leaders to do so. You looked the other way when Hitler rounded up people in your neighborhood. You took the good jobs in communist russia and turned in your friends. Loyal to the government, to the core.
You piece of crap.
You label peaceful protestors waving american flags as something less than human, and accuse them of using their children as shields? We all have a right to peacefully assemble, no matter our immigration status. And we have a right to do so as families. It’s ok when they pick your vegetables and clean your dishes, but not ok to walk on your streets?
You act like these people are terrorists or something. Or Palestinians pelted by Israeli rubber bullets in a war zone. This is America!
Comment by — May 2, 2007 @ 9:52 am
You forgot a few points about me so I will list them:
1) American Citizen
2) Property Owner
3) Taxpayer
4) Constitutionalist
5) Democratic
6) Hard Worker
7) Parent
8) Honest
9) Law Abiding
10) Since I was born in the 60ies your whole post is flawed. More than that I’m not a racist and your comments are simply ignorant, negative, abusive, crap! Shame on you Sam! You hit a good point about peaceful assembly, however this turned into a less than peaceful assembly and at that point the police did what they DO.
We all have to make choices in life and sometimes we choose to make a stand. Protest organizers must obey laws like having enough Porta-Johns for sanitary conditions, permit fees, staying in an area, agreeing to terms, etc. Throwing rocks at the cops is at a minimum instigating a full riot. Yes, sometimes protesters start violence.
In the future if you wish to comment or discuss my posts by all means do so but I object to your childish name calling and some of the language you used. Regardless you are mainly an ignorant pustule on the ass of the world! PAX
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:36 amRegadless, Liberals claim to love the rule of law, why aren’t liberals outraged at the illegals who steal other people’s identity, social security, driver’s licenses, name, etc so they can obtain a job. -VTH
Okay, VTH, you corporate greedster, who is hiring these people? I am outraged allright, but not at the victims, but the one who continually hire them for the almighty God of Republicanism, Mammon, the bottom line.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:37 amF*ck the police.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:39 amBlah Blah Blah, more blame the victim crappola.
But why are they breaking the law? Who’s assisting them in breaking the law? Who’s breaking the laws by hiring them? Why aren’t you focused on the real problem, the employers?
Comment by Null and Void — May 2, 2007 @ 10:29 am
Null and Void,
this is your problem, you view these people as victims. THEY ARE NOT VICTIMS!
they chose to come into the USA illegaly. If you chose to break the law, you should also know the consequences and be mature enough to know that if caught these consequences will be applied to you. These people need to take responsability for their actions.
Have you ever worked, or met an illegal? I have and guess what, most if not all of them know they broke the law and all of them know that if caught, they will be sent back.
where I have a soft spot for all these is when they have kids in the USA and these kids grow up as Americans, then what. We should not punish these kids for the crimes of their parents.
But none of these are in any way, shape or for victims of anything.
Why do Liberals always want to portray eveyrone as victims of something? why?
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:40 amRegadless, Liberals claim to love the rule of law, why aren’t liberals outraged at the illegals who steal other people’s identity, social security, driver’s licenses, name, etc so they can obtain a job. -VTH
Okay, VTH, you corporate greedster, who is hiring these people? I am outraged allright, but not at the victims, but the one who continually hire them for the almighty God of Republicanism, Mammon, the bottom line.
Comment by Null and Void — May 2, 2007 @ 10:37 am
So, what you are saying is that you don’t care that these illegals are breaking the law and stealing other people’s identity, eh? wow! interesting.
and Republicanism? please, you might want to go into the homes of Democratic Politicians and voters, they hire illegals as much if not more than Republicans. Take off the partisan glasses and stop calling these peole victims, they are NOT victims of anything.
Most illegals break the law by stealing identities, they go into corporations and get hired through these stolen identities, do tell, how is the company suppose to know that the social security was stolen? please do tell.
while there are many companies that higher illegals knowing so, there are many that higher illegals not knowing, why? because the illegal will present the company legal documentation that was stolen.
but nice to know that you don’t care about the rule of law. So much for Liberals demanding that Republicans follow the law.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:43 amMay 2nd, 2007 at 10:46 am
Juan C,
I apologize, I didn’t see your question.
what is the left to me? Liberals or so called progressives and most Democrats. the extreme left to me are Commnuists and Socialists.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:48 amI don’t like Bush.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:49 amTherefore this is all Bush’s fault.
Let’s just blame Bush!
Bush must resign, he ordered the protesters shot!
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:52 amIt’s not that simple, seeing that Bush is merely a puppet. And a rather poor quality one at that.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:53 amJuan must be in consultation with Hugo Chavez. Quite the bullyish attitude, I must say.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:53 am113.
you are incorrect in some aspects.
you mistakenly assume that the every day shoplifter, looters, etc are on the same footing as the illegal immigrations. there is a distinction though.
the common criminal is a citizen of the US – therefore they have some rights. even their rights however are tempered by the fact they broke the law. thus their rights are limited.
in contrast, the illegal immigrant is not a citizen of the US – therefore they do not have any of the rights that come along with US citizenship.
that’s the distinction you missed.
Where’s your evidence that these were illegals? Who made that determination? At any rate, you’re saying that our law enforcement should unilaterally determine who is an illegal alien, and having done that they are free to loot them, torture them, or shoot them on the spot. Because that’s what you’re saying when you say that somebody has no rights. The fact that there are penalties already on the books for being an illegal, and procedures that officers are expected to follow in detaining someone, means that even illegals have rights. So enough with the “they have no rights” theme.
Again, the real theme of your posts is that you approve of using police to indiscriminately terrorize protesters under any provocation or none at all. Just acknowledge this, and we can move on.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:54 amThe companies should be fined; and the individuals should be deported.
Comment by chris
And they, like deer to a feeder, will keep coming back as long as business keeps putting food in it. It doesn’t solve the problem. If you really want to crack down on Illegal immigration stop hiring them. Period. I talk to people all the time that hire illegals to work in their yard while griping about illegals.
Why do Liberals always want to portray eveyrone as victims of something? why? Comment by valiantthehater
Well living in Texas, amd having worked around alot of illegals, they KNOW they are being exploited (Victimized) for that very REASON, (being Illegal) CHEAP LABOR!! I thought you knew about that little fact of capitalism VTH? You know outsource jobs to other countries because you LOVE America so much!!!
Anyway, they are usually Republicans, like VTH, worried about a few lousy dollars….who could really care less if that worker then spent his yard pay, got drunk, and ran over some innocent people before fleeing back across the border. BTW when I say victim I do not mean a victim of a crime VTH, I mean a victim of poverty.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:54 amLet’s just blame Bush. He’s responsible!
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:54 amI don’t like President Bush, but the police don’t need to first consult with him to carry out their rightful duties.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:59 amWelcome to your new Police State!
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:01 amSubmit and obey to the Neo Cons, and you will be fine!
Don’t worry about rubber bullets, they will switch to Microwave guns soon!
Enjoy your last days of freedom…
Quite the bullyish attitude, I must say.
Comment by Joe — May 2, 2007 @ 10:53 am
Hey, stupid, make me.
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:02 amLet’s just blame Bush. He’s responsible!
Comment by Mark
I think you mean irresponsible. George want’s to give them amnesty, remember? Buit then again George is an Oil man, and we know that plays a large part of this. (Mexican Oil)
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:02 amJoe said:
And IMO, the Police had no business overreacting.
Chris said:
Not at all. Despite your draconian (IMO) interpretation, Illegal immigrants do have rights. Generally speaking Illegal Aliens aren’t free punching bags or shooting targets. At the moment, they are at least entitled to Due Process. You also said “until they are citizens; they do not have these rights.” which isn’t quite the truth either. They don;t get the full rights of Citizenship, but that’s a far cry from No rights.
Also, you seem to be assuming that they are All Illegal Immigrants. Since they look like anyone else, how would you know? Lots of Citizens feel the way that way too.
valiantthehater said:
I agree, but they do have some rights. Their certainly not free targets for shooting practice.
I think the Police Seriously overreacted here.
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:10 amSo, illegal aliens and their supporters gather to demand forgiveness for using fraudulent documents and assisting others in entering this country illegally.
Did you notice they picked an unfortunate and ironic choice on the part of the organizers of the demonstrations? Yes, May 1 in the United States is actually Law Day.
A good choice for those who break the laws either by entering this country illegally, or as most do, stealing legitimate identities to commit more crimes.
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:11 amThey used REAL bullets at Kent State and there was NO warning before the shots.
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:15 amDoes anyone have evidence that these protesters were ILLEGAL immigrants?
Does anyone have any evidence of wrongdoing that made it legitimate for the police to attack the protesters?
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:19 amThere is a current story running on the CNN site about an audio tape from Kent State, where an order is being given to fire…….
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:20 am#149
T-shirts that say, “I’m illegal, so what?” Or banners that say, “I’m here illegally, what are you going to do about it?” Or chants that repeat, “We are illegal, but we belong here too.”
Enough evidence for you? As they say in the rules of evidence, statements against your own self-interest are the most damning of all.
Ergo, they are criminals by their own admission.
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:25 amDo Illegal Immigrants Have Constitutional Rights?
… The Bill of Rights applies to everyone, even illegal immigrants.
http://www.slate.com/id/1008367/
http://www.nlg.org/resources/kyr/kyr_english.htm
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:30 amDoes anyone have evidence that these protesters were ILLEGAL immigrants?
Does anyone have any evidence of wrongdoing that made it legitimate for the police to attack the protesters?
Comment by Zooey — May 2, 2007 @ 11:19 am
do you have evidence of the oppossite? that these demonstrators were all legals and didn’t do anything to get the police to attack them?
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:32 amthe Bill of Rights doesn’t apply to illegals, despite what left wing sites that love to promote illegal immigration say.
an officer of the law, can by its good will have these apply, but the Bill of Right only protects American citizens and legal resident aliens.
Illegal Immigrants have rights under international treaties that have been established through history and the world.
one of these rightrs which you will never find in our Constitution is the right of illegal immigrants to contact their respective embassy.
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:36 am#152
They sure do, only with respect to due process in respect of a deportation hearing. Your overly simplistic post implies that illegals have the same rights as US citizens. This is not true.
In fact, illegals have due process rights during immigration proceedings. These types of proceedings are matters of administrative law, not criminal law.
This is called procedural due process, and should not be confused with substantive due process.
So, the Bill of Rights applies to US citizens, with certain procedural due process rights in the context of US court proceedings being applicable to, as you stated, everyone.
Your post would have earned an “F” in my Constitutional Law class.
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:36 amvaliantthehater said:
valiantthehater, Remember that pesky “Innocent Until Proven Guilty“? Same principle…
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:37 amHey, stupid, make me.
Comment by Juan C — May 2, 2007 @ 11:02 am
Anyways, Juan, can you admit that it’s tantamount to child cruelty to bring your children to a protest where chaos has a history of erupting? And I’m not talking solely of the the police, either.
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:37 amvaliantthehater said:
do you have evidence of the oppossite? that these demonstrators were all legals and didn’t do anything to get the police to attack them?
valiantthehater, Remember that pesky “Innocent Until Proven Guilty“? Same principle…
Comment by S.D. — May 2, 2007 @ 11:37 am
and how about for the police….does “Innocent until proven guilty” apply to the police also? many of you seem to have already convicted the police, why?
and once again, Innocent until proven guilty only applies to Citizens and legal residents of the USA and even legal residents don’t have all the rights that an American citizen has.
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:41 am#103
Maybe the demonstrators were pro-american, just not pro-rethuglican?? Ya think?
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:41 amSorry I meant #130 – valientthehater!
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:44 amPolicemen should be required to wear cameras in their badge and belt buckles. first time both cameras are not filming while on the job
Comment by gary — May
Super naive/dumb comment from someone with a techno-bias. Those cams work on cop-cars because the tableau plays out opposite a stationary car/camera. Now use it in a pedesitran situation where a crowd doesn’t follow roads, and subjects are atomized, approaching the cop from any direction. We don’t need to waste the enormous sums of money you require to learn that an honest (or dishonest) cop will just say “The guy came at me from off camera.”
duh.
Think things through people.
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:46 amdo you have evidence of the oppossite? that these demonstrators were all legals and didn’t do anything to get the police to attack them?
Comment by valiantthehater
You first, baby. Innocent until proven guilty, right?
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:46 amT-shirts that say, “I’m illegal, so what?†Or banners that say, “I’m here illegally, what are you going to do about it?†Or chants that repeat, “We are illegal, but we belong here too.â€
Enough evidence for you? As they say in the rules of evidence, statements against your own self-interest are the most damning of all.
Ergo, they are criminals by their own admission.
So, you’re saying that we can dispense with the determination of guilt or innocence at a court and go straight to summary punishment? After all, a t-shirt or a banner is self-evident proof that the person, and everyone in the crowd, is an illegal and ought to be fired upon or beaten, right?
Again, just say that you’re an authoritarian–where any violent act by government authority whether provoked or not is okay with you–and we will understand each other and can move on.
do you have evidence of the oppossite? that these demonstrators were all legals and didn’t do anything to get the police to attack them? Comment by valiantthehater
What you’re saying is that the police can fire into any crowd, so long as there is the pretext that there may be suspected criminals lurking around? So much for the notion that innocence is all the protection you need to avoid being terrorized by the government. That alone ought to give the authoritarians posting here pause, since their innocence won’t save them from a malevolent government; however, I’m not holding my breath.
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:47 am#154 – valiantthehater
Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution.
Read it sometime.
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:50 amOnce again, SD, there’s an open season on police officers in this country and not enough punishment for acts committed againts them. It was an isolated incident and the officers were apparently provoked.
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:50 amZooey,
and the police is also innocent until proven guilty? right? or do policemen have no rights?
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:51 am#154 – valiantthehater
Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution.
Read it sometime.
Comment by Zooey — May 2, 2007 @ 11:50 am
sorry, the 14th Amendment only applies to Citizens of the USA and some legal residents of the USA.
try again. A for effort, but F for ingorance.
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:53 amvaliantthehater said:
The Difference being that the Police were videotaped shooting Rubber Bullets into a peaceful protest. I’m hardly convicting the police, but whomever gave the order to do that F____d up big time. Even if we buy into your many “have already convicted the police”, are you saying two wrongs make a right?
Regardless of their immigration status: Based on the video taped accounts, do you think the police was justified in shooting rubber bullets into a crowd containing children?
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:53 amOnce again, SD, there’s an open season on police officers in this country and not enough punishment for acts committed againts them. It was an isolated incident and the officers were apparently provoked.
Comment by Joe — May 2, 2007 @ 11:50 am
Of course it was provocation from the crowd. That is what CNN won’t show, what happened BEFORE the rubber bullets were fired and the tear gas was fired.
and the sad part is that this pro-illegal immigrants breaking the law people always assume that all policemen are evil and they are ready to convict them without a trial.
interesting enough then they turn around and cry about the demonstrators having rightrs and being innocent until proven guilty. You would think that they would also want the police to be innocent until proven guilty.
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:55 amHmmm, illegal people waving foreign flags making Demands start throwing rocks and bottles at police and expect nothing to happen? Yup, sounds like liberal thinking.
So not only do you want them to have the right to break our laws like entering the country illegal and either not paying taxes or paying them on social security numbers that are the result of identity theft (screwing those Americans with Rights). But now they should be able to throw things at police.
Standard liberal thinking and just the type of scum who would vote Democrat.
ROTFL
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:55 amZooey,
and the police is also innocent until proven guilty? right? or do policemen have no rights?
Comment by valiantthehater
Yes, the police have rights, but not MORE rights than the people. They answer to the people, since we pay their salaries. Surely you don’t have a problem with that?
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:56 am#163 said:
So, you’re saying that we can dispense with the determination of guilt or innocence at a court and go straight to summary punishment? After all, a t-shirt or a banner is self-evident proof that the person, and everyone in the crowd, is an illegal and ought to be fired upon or beaten, right?
MY RESPONSE:
I did not say those things, and your implication that I did connotes a refusal to acknowledge what I posted–FACTS.
A commentor asked if there was EVIDENCE to which I responded, yes, it appears that there IS ample evidence that they are here illegally.
I did not make those other comments, and any implication by you to the contrary is merely adding your own thoughts to mine in an sophmoric attempt to undermine my FACTUAL assertions.
Please at least try to use intelligence in your posts, Mr. Flibble…
The rest of us can see through your ungainly attempts to join an otherwise intelligent discussion.
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:56 amS.D.,
what about what the video is not showing! what happened BEFORE the police starting firing rubber bullets.
this video, as much as this site, is only telling half of the truths.
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:56 amIt does appear that the LAPD dispersed a crowd by force. There were in fact reports of violence by the police claiming that objects were hurled at them. A motorcycle cop was knocked off his bike by one of these objects (so say the cops). One of the “demonstrators” (must be a spokesperson or a gang member) said, “We are here to DEMAND our IMMIGRATION RIGHTS” As it stands the police were in fact protecting the area! Good work LAPD!
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:57 am“Of course it was provocation from the crowd.”?
Let me guess: The Liberal media won’t show the “Truth”?
Don’t you think the press would be all over that? At the least Fox “News” would be there.
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:57 am#155 “Your post would have earned an “F†in my Constitutional Law class.”
Didn’t mean to threaten you…
… The Bill of Rights applies to everyone, even illegal immigrants.
http://www.slate.com/id/1008367/
http://www.nlg.org/resources/kyr/kyr_english.htm
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:57 amOf course it was provocation from the crowd.
Comment by valiantthehater
Proof, please.
I guess those women provoked the police officers so they have to clubbed them. Yep.
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:57 amsorry, the 14th Amendment only applies to Citizens of the USA and some legal residents of the USA.
try again. A for effort, but F for ingorance.
Comment by valiantthehater
Back at ya moron.
The 14th Amendment applies to ALL PERSONS, not just citizens.
You have a right to your own opinion, but not your own facts.
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:59 amvaliantthehater Said:
Well, we’re delving into conspiracy theory now, don’t you think? Wouldn’t you say that Fox “News” would be all over that if that actually was the case?
May 2nd, 2007 at 12:00 pmand the police is also innocent until proven guilty? right? or do policemen have no rights?
They have the same rights. But the police have coercive power that the average citizen does not have, meaning that they and their commanders are held to a higher standard and ought to be investigated any time they use power the average citizen does not have. That’s the price of having the authority to detain, arrest, or even shoot somoene.
If you can exercise coercive authority without accountability or oversight, then you have tyranny. Which seems to be what you’re saying you want, unless I mistake you.
May 2nd, 2007 at 12:01 pmrfinca,
do you think I care what a bunch of liberla lawyers say about what rights illegal immigrants have.
the Constitution was written for citizens of the USA and some of these rights, not all are also afforded to legal residents.
as for illegals, yes they have rights, but not through our Constitution, but through international treaties.
May 2nd, 2007 at 12:04 pmS.D.,
hmmmm….I think the one with the conspiracy theories is you. You are making assumptions based on a video that only shows the police using force to disperse a crowd.
The video doesn’t show anything of what happened before. So how can you or I come to a conclusion of whether the police is innocent or not, whether the demonstrators were innocent or not, when we are not being shown the full picture, right?
does the video show what happened before the rubber bullest started flying? a simple yes or no, S.D., will suffice.
May 2nd, 2007 at 12:06 pmRFINCA
Your post in #176 was already refuted twice. Quit reposting the same erroneous comment over and over. Repetition does not make it true. If you still don’t understand, see my post #155, and move on.
May 2nd, 2007 at 12:08 pmBack at ya moron.
The 14th Amendment applies to ALL PERSONS, not just citizens.
You have a right to your own opinion, but not your own facts.
Comment by Zooey — May 2, 2007 @ 11:59 am
Yes, Zooey, because calling people “morons” will really changed my mind. What a child you are.
follow your own advice, you can hold your opinions, but stop making up the facts. Just because some liberal lawyer, teacher, television station, site, etc told you that illegals have Constitutional rights, it doesn’t make it so.
The Constitution of the United States doesn’t afford any rights or freedoms to illegal immigrants. Yes, they have rights, which are afforded to them through international treaties.
stop spewing left wing propaganda that you have been brainwashed with.
May 2nd, 2007 at 12:09 pmvaliantthehater –
Here ya go. It’s fromt he Wiki, so it’s easy to read!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
May 2nd, 2007 at 12:12 pmMY RESPONSE:
I did not say those things, and your implication that I did connotes a refusal to acknowledge what I posted–FACTS.
A commentor asked if there was EVIDENCE to which I responded, yes, it appears that there IS ample evidence that they are here illegally.
I did not make those other comments…..
I deleted the ad hominems from your post, since they serve no purpose. Being under a pseudonym, I have no ego to protect and so insults are unlikely to intimidate me.
Of course you didn’t make those comments. I was drawing conclusions from your post, since people usually post “evidence” in support of a position. You didn’t indicate that you were playing devil’s advocate, so it is not unreasonable to conclude that your claim that there were “criminals” in the crowd was a way of justifying the action of the police in terrorizing that crowd. If this isn’t the case, then what was the point of your earlier post? Or were you posting just because?
May 2nd, 2007 at 12:13 pmstop spewing left wing propaganda that you have been brainwashed with.
Comment by valiantthehater
Read it. I provided you with a link. Liberal lawyer don’t interpret the Constitution, the Supreme Court does.
Ok, I shouldn’t have called you a moron. You are simply uninformed.
May 2nd, 2007 at 12:15 pmValiant, is there any proof or a link that you could give us where it shows that protesters crossed a line?
stop spewing left wing propaganda that you have been brainwashed with.
Comment by valiantthehater
Just to make some sense out of this…what do you mean by left? Do you know which class thought and made the Bill of Human Rights? Were they leftists? I want some proof of your assertion, please.
May 2nd, 2007 at 12:16 pmZooey,
Like Wikidpedia is so reliable. My two year old son can go in there and edit it. Try a grown up source that can’t be edited by everyone and their mother, son, brother, sister, daughter, etc, etc, etc.
Liberals love wikipedia, i guess because they can go in there and edit anything they want.
May 2nd, 2007 at 12:17 pmComment by Mr. Flibble — May 2, 2007 @ 11:47 am
What is being said is that the police can disperse a crowd or mob to protect the interest public in ORDER. The police can also ARREST anyone they believe is a threat to the public interest. Then those arrested have rights under Miranda Act, then court etc. Some here mentioned the woman. She disobeyed the command to disperse and instead moved in the direction of the cop (most likely to retrieve that stuff on the ground). At that point he could have knocked her into orbit with that baton. He shoved her back and then she ran in the required direction.
May 2nd, 2007 at 12:21 pmI have been in a few protests and it sucks to get lumped up. I would NEVER take my kids to a protest for many reasons. No matter how passionate a cause I would never attack the police and if something happened out of my control I would run as fast as I could. Regardless store owners, businesses, institutions, home owners and bystanders in the area’s rights come first.
Frank Zappa and the Mothers
Were at the best place around
But some stupid with a flare gun
Burned the place to the ground
Smoke on the water, fire in the sky
Mr. Fibble.
YOU SAID:
“I was drawing conclusions from your post”
MY RESPONSE:
To draw such erroneous comclusions from my post is way off-base and the fact that you drew such conclusions only to support your own absurd ideas (rather than respond directly to the posts for which I involved in) is, frankly frightening.
I cannot imagine how you made the huge leap from my post regarding evidence of wrong-doing to (your) asserting it as a basis for supporting shooting people on the street. You sir, need help in your analytical skills.
At the very least, read the posts more carefully and try to avoid the stupidity that Juan C. and Zooey routinely engage in.
May 2nd, 2007 at 12:21 pmJuan C,
as soon as I find it, I will post it up. But I am guessing that the media, which is pro-illegal immigration, only captured the video of the police using force. The media won’t dare paint this “poor”, “innocent”, “victimized” demonostrators as agressors. C’mon Juan, you know this.
and what the heck do you mean about the Bill of Rights being written by lefties?
the Bill of Rights was written by great men who today wouldn’t probably recognize the right and the left as we define them today.
the point is that the bill of rights, the American Constitution doesn’t apply to illegal immigrants.
May 2nd, 2007 at 12:22 pm# 183 Your post in #176 was already refuted twice. Quit reposting the same erroneous comment over and over. Repetition does not make it true. If you still don’t understand, see my post #155, and move on.
Comment by JT — May 2, 2007 @ 12:08 pm
It was refuted twice? I’m sorry; I must have missed those links proving my post wrong.
I’ll check back a little later to check those links you’ll be providing that prove me wrong. ;)
May 2nd, 2007 at 12:22 pmvaliantthehater,
You will find that the text is the same in every source, but I’ll humor you:
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment14/
http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.amendmentxiv.html
http://www.nps.gov/archive/malu/documents/amend14.htm
Enjoy!
May 2nd, 2007 at 12:23 pmValiant, I will wait for the link, thanks.
May 2nd, 2007 at 12:29 pm#192, cute comment. But, it doesn’t support your erroneous assertion. I have moved on since I don’t debate people who cover their ears and close their eyes whilst humming loudly.
May 2nd, 2007 at 12:32 pmYou folks who are calling this an isolated incident are painfully naive. Cops pull this kind of crap ALL THE TIME. They regularly lie, falsify evidence, and abuse the innocent. They get away with it because they’ll pretty much ALL lie to protect each other.
May 2nd, 2007 at 12:33 pmzooey,
you can put as many links as you want, it doesn’t mean you are right. Nazis made many excuses and “proved” that Jews were of a lower sub-human species, did it make them right? of course not.
point all you want to any and all sources, the FACT remains that illegal immigrants don’t enjoy the same Constitutiona rights that American citizens do.
You can tell me you are right until your face turns blue, it doesn’t make you right. You can link up to as many sources that side with you as you want, it doesn’t make you right.
I don’t need to be told what is right and wrong, brainwashed child, I know what is right and wrong. Try to think on your own one of this days, it will honestly be amazing.
May 2nd, 2007 at 12:33 pmValiant, I will wait for the link, thanks.
Comment by Juan C
Hey Juan,
I’ll leave the uninformed to your tender mercies. I’m outta here until later. :)
May 2nd, 2007 at 12:36 pmAbout human rights: (even if you are an illegal)
Modern human rights law developed out of customs and theories that established the rights of the individual in relation to the state. These rights were expressed in legal terms in documents such as the English Bill of Rights of 1688, the U.S. Declaration of Independence of 1776, the U.S. Bill of Rights added to the U.S. Constitution in 1789, and the French Declaration of the Rights of Man and the Citizen added to the French Constitution in 1791.
Valiant, you meant this great man, right?
May 2nd, 2007 at 12:37 pmThe Persian Empire (Iran) established unprecedented principles of human rights in the 6th century BC under the reign of Cyrus the Great. After his conquest of Babylon in 539 BC, the king issued the Cyrus Cylinder, discovered in 1879 and recognized by many today as the first human rights document.
I don’t need to be told what is right and wrong, brainwashed child, I know what is right and wrong. Try to think on your own one of this days, it will honestly be amazing.
Comment by valiantthehater
If you refuse to read the 14th Amendment for yourself, you will learn nothing for yourself.
Suit yourself.
Notice a common theme? It’s all about you, babes, not me.
May 2nd, 2007 at 12:37 pm#192, cute comment. But, it doesn’t support your erroneous assertion. I have moved on since I don’t debate people who cover their ears and close their eyes whilst humming loudly.
Comment by JT — May 2, 2007 @ 12:32 pm
You have moved on?… Can’t substantiate your claim? That’s what I thought.
May 2nd, 2007 at 12:38 pmZoo, be well. ;)
May 2nd, 2007 at 12:38 pm#196–Realist
Regarding your post that “[cops] regularly lie, falsify evidence, and abuse the innocent.”
Wow-this is a huge assertion. Our society is falling apart.
Provide PROOF of your assertion or quit wasting our time.
May 2nd, 2007 at 12:41 pmJuan C,
what? who is talking about the Persian Empire and BC? stay focuse, stay in American history.
the Founding Father’s these great man included the bill of rights into our Constitution.
No on is talking about a unversial human bill of rights. This is typical liberal bs, the world is one, countries are all one, blah, blah, blah, blah.
May 2nd, 2007 at 12:48 pmThis thread has nothing to do with Constitutional Rights or for that matter immigration. It seems that we all have different views on the both of those…
This thread is about police dispersing a crowd or mob of individuals by force that turned to violent acts. That is ANARCHY and that is the issue… If you checked you would have noticed that the rally was happening for the entire day. In the afternoon objects were thrown at the cops who in turn shut the entire thing down.
May 2nd, 2007 at 12:48 pmZooey,
since you are so focused on the 14th Amendment, point out to the exact article, paragraph, sentece, etc, there, that uses the words, “Illegal Immigrants have rights under the USA Constitution”.
I would hold my breath, but I know I would die before you can fine these words in the 14th Amendment.
May 2nd, 2007 at 12:49 pmIn a Civilized Manner (which I appreciate, BTW), valiantthehater said:
Actually, I’m basing my opinion on what I see, Please correct me if I’m wrong: you seem to be basing it on what you assume.
Does the video show what happened before the rubber bullest started flying? To me, it seems too. I see people scattering wildly, not challenging police. If nothing else, I’m going by what Eye witnesses are reporting. What are you basing it on?
Note, I’m NOT calling you a conspiracy nut, If you have any links, I’d love to see them. It just seems that your assuming.
Try this: in news.google.com search for “rubber bullets”.
According to this CBS News report, News reporters were injured too.
Can you find video or News Reporters that actually saw “missiles” being thrown? Mind you I only spent 5 minutes looking, but I’ve found none.
May 2nd, 2007 at 1:03 pmI would hold my breath, but I know I would die before you can fine these words in the 14th Amendment. Comment by valiantthehater — May 2, 2007 @ 12:49 pm
You would die before you would admit that attacking Americans that march like this with the police is also a violation of the constitutional right to assembly. If you’re saying they aren’t citizens – how do you know, because they march? Was everyone that marched for civil rights in the 60s black? In this country, we are innocent until proven guilty – not the other way around, despite the efforts of you fascist pigs.
You’re mentally deranged – child.
May 2nd, 2007 at 1:03 pmThe 14th Amendment states that if you are born here or naturalized (lawful entry through the INS, including marriage) you are in fact a CITIZEN in both the US and your state. It goes on to say that no person in the country is above the law and even non citizens must obey the law (ignorance of the law is no excuse). What the law is is determined by the people who are made up of citizens only. Local laws to protect the taxpayers from angry mobs are in place in all localities. Throwing bottles and rocks at anyone 9 times out of 10 ends the party!
May 2nd, 2007 at 1:14 pmmmm…still no proof that Protesters provoked the police, Valiant.
Still no accurate definition of what left and liberals mean to you.
Still no admittance that the Bill of Rights (whose first glimpse was made in Persia, no, not Jefferson) is a part of the Constitution of the US, that says ALL PEOPLE, not ALL CITIZENS OR LEGAL RESIDENTS.
Still no nothing of substance from you.
May 2nd, 2007 at 1:15 pmPeace!?…I got your Peace right here! Police: you are here to Protect and Serve, kidos.
May 2nd, 2007 at 1:25 pmComment by ValiantVenusGrewFromUranus — May 2, 2007 @ 1:03 pm
The US Constitution’s Bill of Rights is the center of attention to you at the moment. Here people are bringing up the 14th. The other day people like you were down on the 2nd and my Right to protect myself…
None of you mention LOCAL LAWS. Think about it; should 100,000 people assemble who pays for the bathrooms? Should 1500 assemble who pays for the damages to property? Should 5000 gather who cleans up all of the garbage? Should 3500 people gather and violence erupts are not the tax payers allowed to protect themselves from a possible Rodney King Riot? Local laws allow local cops to keep the peace. Should a protest become violent the police can and will use force to restore order!
Protestors are not above the law!
May 2nd, 2007 at 1:26 pmInteresting Youtube link from FOX NEWS (Of all places).
Officers are caught on Video assaulting the members of the press. (Starting at 1:15, more at 2:20) All for something that may or may not have happened over a block away.
Based on that video, Anyone think the police didn’t Overreact?
May 2nd, 2007 at 1:26 pm197. “You can tell me you are right until your face turns blue, it doesn’t make you right. You can link up to as many sources that side with you as you want, it doesn’t make you right. ”
Actually, it does. It’s called facts, truth comes from education, I know your terrified of those things but books are our friends and your enemy.
“I don’t need to be told what is right and wrong, brainwashed child, I know what is right and wrong. Try to think on your own one of this days, it will honestly be amazing.”
Actually, you do need to be told what is right and wrong, because you seem quite confused. Because you look pretty stupid to all of us, something your complelety un-aware of, because your mental health problems blind you from it. Stupid people like you are parted like wheat for us, but your so foolish, and blinded by unfounded arrogance, your not even aware of it yet.
May 2nd, 2007 at 1:33 pmmmm…still no proof that Protesters provoked the police
Comment by Juan C — May 2, 2007 @ 1:15 pm
MMMMMMMMM still no protestors pressing charges against the LAPD.
May 2nd, 2007 at 1:36 pmMMMMMMMMM still no protestors pressing charges against the LAPD.
Comment by Saywho
And that has a lot to do with … what? Get a grip, trigger happy.
May 2nd, 2007 at 1:44 pmBased on that video, Anyone think the police didn’t Overreact?
Comment by S.D. — May 2, 2007 @ 1:26 pm
“Group of young guys provoking police…..(witness)” Police established a police line and enforced it!
May 2nd, 2007 at 1:48 pmI have heard that beings the Police departments, in all states get their equipment (military) from the Fed. Gov. that the police in all the states are kind of like under the Feds. orders now. Maybe I am wrong (wouldn’t be the first time, or the last) but that is what I have been told.
May 2nd, 2007 at 1:51 pmAnd that has a lot to do with … what? Get a grip, trigger happy.
Comment by Juan C — May 2, 2007 @ 1:44 pm
It has to do with your assertion that the police started this and are to blame since as of yet we have not seen what triggered it. I mentioned that the protestors/demonstrators have not filed charges (at least not yet) against the LAPD. So then the personal comments you made like get a grip or trigger happy are nothing more than antagonistic!
May 2nd, 2007 at 1:57 pmSaywho, I was wondering if you’d watch the video and see the Single witness (55 second in) who said that.
Notice she said “Group of young guys provoking police“, not throwing things. The FOX News Reporter also mentioned right before that this was a few blocks away.
So, from your posts, you think it’s acceptable for the Police to assault members of the Press? Members who, I might add, have to fill out an I9 form to prove legal residency prior to employment.
Again, Other than the US can do no wrong crowd; Based on that video, Anyone think the police didn’t Overreact?
May 2nd, 2007 at 2:01 pmSaywho, I was wondering if you’d watch the video and see the Single witness (55 second in) who said that.
Notice she said “Group of young guys provoking police“, not throwing things. The FOX News Reporter also mentioned right before that this was a few blocks away.
So, from your posts, you think it’s acceptable for the Police to assault members of the Press? Members who, I might add, have to fill out an I9 form to prove legal residency prior to employment.
Again, Other than the US can do no wrong crowd; Based on that video, Anyone think the police didn’t Overreact?
Comment by S.D. — May 2, 2007 @ 2:01 pm
Sorry about the delay in posting…
Yes, I watched it completely. For years LA has been a war zone so this is no surprise. The police formed a police line and pushed everyone in including the press.
The witness said “antagonized” and throwing rocks and bottles at riot cops is a good way to start a riot. Knocking a cop off of his motorcycle is also another way to start a riot.
While it looks harsh the police can and did enforce a police line. I doubt the LAPD is going to allow another Rodney King type of RIOT…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfmEjIJyDT8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FP_y8_kqXlY&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oZYol7pwpc&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0hQuf0287g&mode=related&search=
In general when a cop tels you to move you should just GO!
May 2nd, 2007 at 3:06 pmHater, I think we can all agree the Founding Fathers and those who subsequently amended the Constitution were educated individuals with a reasonable vocabulary – it seems ridiculous to need to emphasize this given the beauty of the writing. With that in mind, would you be kind enough to answer the following three questions please?
Q1) Would you not agree that in some parts of the Constitution the word “citizen” (citizens) is used, and in other parts the word “person” (persons) is used? I’m thinking the XIVth Amendment specifically, since that seems to be an issue here. (I’d offer links or a cut-and-paste, but you didn’t seem to respond well when Zooey offered you various sources to check the content of the Constitution for yourself.)
Q2) Do you think this distinction (citizen/person) was accidental – like maybe they didn’t know the difference, despite defining citizenship in the same document?
Q3) It appears to me that the distinction was intentional; i.e., that the Constitution meant to enumerate certain rights for citizens and certain rights for all people. The text to me plainly says all persons have some rights (like equal protection under the law), and citizens have additional rights that not all people have. Can you please show where the Constitution supports the position that only citizens have rights?
Thank you for your time.
May 2nd, 2007 at 3:09 pmSaywho politely said:
Saywho, IMO, she’d have said people threw stuff if she saw it.
Also, those links are all of the Riots after the Rodney King Verdict. At that time, there wasn’t the same police presence there as there was yesterday. Yesterday, the police were geared for just about anything and, as I mentioned, I think they over reacted. I don’t think assaulting members of the press or the public was justified.
As for Knocking a cop off of his motorcycle: Why didn’t any of the many Video cameras catch that?
Also, are you from LA? While I’ve never been there, I have friends and family there who say it’s not so bad. They certainly don’t describe it as a War Zone.
May 2nd, 2007 at 3:51 pmHater? No?
Anyone who shares hater’s opinion then? IIRC someone posted earlier that “the people” in the Constitution only included those who were citizens – any chance of showing us documentation for that concept?
If not, well, another time perhaps.
May 2nd, 2007 at 4:08 pmSeems to me that from the beginning of this thread the entire point has been missed. The point is that armed troops opened fire with projectile weapons on a peaceful demonstration. Anyone presuming that the ENTIRE crowd was composed of “illegals” is an absolute idiot. Therefore, the police action is in fact ILLEGAL as there was no verification that the ENTIRE CROWD was composed of illegals. For all of you ranting about “rights”, try actually reading the DoI for once. Pay particular attention to the part “created equal”. Discussing the “immigration problem” is a good thing, covering up the blatantly wrong with a blanket of fear, hatred, nationalism, and the like has never in the history of our entire species solved any problem.
May 2nd, 2007 at 4:27 pmSaywho, IMO, she’d have said people threw stuff if she saw it.
Also, those links are all of the Riots after the Rodney King Verdict. At that time, there wasn’t the same police presence there as there was yesterday. Yesterday, the police were geared for just about anything and, as I mentioned, I think they over reacted. I don’t think assaulting members of the press or the public was justified.
As for Knocking a cop off of his motorcycle: Why didn’t any of the many Video cameras catch that?
Also, are you from LA? While I’ve never been there, I have friends and family there who say it’s not so bad. They certainly don’t describe it as a War Zone.
Comment by S.D. — May 2, 2007 @ 3:51 pm
I brought up the LA riots to let you and the rest know exactly that LAPD has no intentions of letting things slip out of control again like back then. I commented on the witness’ statement and it sounds like “provoked”. From several other sources I read that rocks, bottles and other objects were thrown at the cops. The video on this thread at the end mentions that the police stated that an officer was knocked off his motorcycle. Here I would have to believe that the police decided to rapidly deploy tactical before things exploded to the LA Riot #1 level.
Yes, I have been to LA and as far as I know it is still the murder capital of the USA. Not all areas are war like but East LA got to be known as “gangland” not for its farms but from all of the gangs!
As far as video of trigger incidents goes there may or may not be video so we will have to wait and see.
Sorry that seems a bit jumbled up but I have the kids today and they are not helping me stay on track.
May 2nd, 2007 at 4:38 pmSaywho said:
Nope, fairly concise and to the point. I suppose we’ll have to see if any other video show up. In the mean time, we’ll have to agree to disagree.
I sympathize: I had to watch my Niece and Nephew (both todlers) and I needed a day off after…
May 2nd, 2007 at 4:45 pm;)
Comment by patriot — May 2, 2007 @ 4:27 pm
I mentioned that aspect several times except to say that the police can exert force to put down riots, violence, self preservation and to protect the taxpayers. The police did not appear racially motivated to me. They marched a police line and cleared ground quickly.
May 2nd, 2007 at 4:46 pm“For one thing there are twice as many race-hate groups in CA than VA and more than 6 times the amount of race-hate incidents.” –Kilo
Population of California = 36 million
Population of Virginia = 7.5 milion
Which shows you that California has 5 times as much population, so most of your comparison is moot. The rest is geographical ignorance, apparently.
The rightwing part of California is on the east side, towns like Tracy, Riverside, and Stockton, which have large outposts of hate-groups (and around-the-clock rightwing hate radio).
Los Angeles is coastal, and liberal. Virginia, by contrast, is far more uniform in its distribution of such events or groups.
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:10 pm“Los Angeles is a tender box”
Well, thanks for the kind reference to the female organ, I guess.
“that has ignited in racial riots in the past, so if this triggers another one it could spread all over California, then spread to other states with Latino populations like Texas and Arizona.” –Jay Randal
What a liar you are, Jay.
• There haven’t been Mexican or Latino race riots in Los Angeles since 1943 (the Zoot Suit Riots).
As with other ‘race riots,’ they are triggered by the police, which prior to Rodney King were indeed infiltrated with racists and run by racists (like Darryl Gates).
Watch the tape — the level of violence is MINOR. The injuries were MINOR. There was no return of fire from the crowd, which simply dispersed. And no such incident occured downtown, two miles away, with a crowd a hundred times (+) larger.
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:20 pm“Yes, I have been to LA and as far as I know it is still the murder capital of the USA. Not all areas are war like but East LA got to be known as “gangland†not for its farms but from all of the gangs!” –Saywho
Gangs, not race in itself, are the cause of that violence.
CHICAGO, not Los Angeles, had the highest per capita murder rate in the U.S. in 2003 with 598 murders.
Murder rates have gone down around the country, but in the late 90s, here was the score:
“SELECTED WORST CITIES
MURDER (LATE-1990s)
MURDERS PER 100,000
(1) Washington, D.C., USA 69.3
(2) Philadelphia, USA 27.4
(3) Dallas, USA 24.8
(4) Los Angeles, USA 22.8
(5) Chicago, USA 20.5″
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/153988.stm
Unless you have actual information, you’re just spreading lies. Why would you do that?
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:35 pmI would hold my breath, but I know I would die before you can fine these words in the 14th Amendment.
Comment by valiantthehater
I have given you at least 4 links to the information you need.
READ IT FOR YOURSELF! EDUCATE YOURSELF!
Lazy ass.
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:38 pm“The point is that armed troops opened fire”
The LAPD are not ‘troops.’ They are city cops.
“with projectile weapons on a peaceful demonstration. Anyone presuming that the ENTIRE crowd was composed of “illegals†is an absolute idiot.” –patriot
There is no indication that the police action was due to the status of the persons who were involved.
I live here; I protest here every week. I have had HUNDREDS of interactions with LAPD–in general the relationship with protesters has been one of mutual restraint and professionalism.
• Please stop spreading lies.
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:42 pm“Saywho, IMO, she’d have said people threw stuff if she saw it.” — SD
Dem Now! played extended footage today, and indeed there are masked (what appear to be) teenagers throwing projectiles (rocks?) on the tape.
LAPD is a for-real police agency. They will not tolerate such attacks.
In the context of the throwing of projectiles at them, their actions appear to have been restrained, and produced only minor injuries.
Angelica Salas, who was one of organizers of the MacArthur Park permitted protest, spoke on Dem Now! She said “what I saw, instead of isolating a problem group, they (LAPD) pushed them into the crowd.”
The LAPD tactics once they decided to clear the park aside, this is Ms. Salas confirming that there was “a problem group.” That group was not terrorists or ‘illegals,’ but most likely high school students and other youth who DO, I know from personal experience, often confuse the LAPD for ‘the Man,’ as if all police are extensions of a monolithic U.S. power (which is not the case). On the tape you can see them throwing what appear to be rocks.
NO SUCH ACTION OCCURED IN THE MUCH LARGER MARCH EARLIER.
This problem occured toward sundown, and BY provocation by a problem group. The LAPD does not appear to have overreacted, did not (so far as it appears) cause grevious bodily harm to anyone.
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:55 pmThere were Latino militants (likely roudy gang types) who were becoming violent and throwing rocks and bottles. The cops responded as anyone would logically expect: and then promptly got backstabbed by their own Chief Bratton, who immediatle sided with the monied Capitalist interests and condemned his own officers’ actions.
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:14 pmHad this been a group of anti-war protestors, the cops could have gotten away with beating someone savagely and the media likely would have ignored it. (They pretty much ignore most anti-war rallies as it is.)
It is obvious that the Oligarch rulers of North America want more cheap slave labor and DO NOT want to advertise against the war effort, erego, little war protest coverage, mush to do about immigrant rallies.
There were Latino militants”
How do you know they were Latino? They wore masks.
“then promptly got backstabbed by their own Chief Bratton, who immediatle sided with the monied Capitalist interests and condemned his own officers’ actions.”
HILARIOUS. Supply a quote of him siding with ‘monied interests.’ That’s about as funny as anything I’ve heard today. It is btw his DUTY to manage such responses, and he said he was ‘troubled’ by some of what he saw on the video (there were some emotions shown by a few officers who nonetheless appear to have restrained themselves).
“Had this been a group of anti-war protestors, the cops could have gotten away with beating someone savagely”
That’s an utter lie. We have had HUNDREDS of antiwar actions in Los Angeles, and there have been NO savage beatings by LAPD.
“It is obvious that the Oligarch rulers of North America” –Cassandra
The Oligarch rulers of North America do not run the LAPD. It’s city cops, run by a pretty good Chief. Your exaggerated worldview would have the chief siding against his officers — there is NO evidence of that, or post it. I think you’re hallucinating.
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:48 pmUnless you have actual information, you’re just spreading lies. Why would you do that?
Comment by Paul in LA — May 2, 2007 @ 6:35 pm
Excuse me? Ah so LA lost the numero uno in the murder ranking, what a shame but ranking 4th is disinformation how exactly? Since I am against illegal immigration the aliens are the ones who play the race card. Now as you found out it appears that I was correct many posts ago and the police were attacked by a “faction” of the protest members.
So what was that about lies and disinformation? LA has been and continues to be a disgusting S**T HOLE loaded w/ gang members, violence, drugs, human traffic, prostitution, disease and all the rest. La Raza; People in masks throwing rocks that want to spread socialism by creating anarchy. Then TP posters talking about how LAPD looks like the Gestapo. That would take quite a bit of lead people not rubber.
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:23 pmMore footage:
http://www.gamejew.com/?q=node/67
What is clear from this extended tape is that the helicopters were broadcasting orders to leave the park long before there was any firing, contrary to various reports that claimed there was no warning.
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:40 pmHaving viewed that tape, there isn’t anything there to be particularly excited about. The police were measured and deliberate — once they decide the permit is void, it’s OVER.
Peaceful protesters don’t contest such decisions by police, which is why we have had so many completely peaceful protests. But as you listen to the rhetoric, you can see that people confuse a relatively simple action by police for fascism.
Hey, you ought to have tried protesting during Vietnam. THEN the cops were really nasty and uncontrolled. This was an unfortunate event, but to blame the cops for being cops (or fascists) is just hopelessly naive. The whole trick of protest is NOT to hassle the cops to the point that they attack the crowd.
The results of the antagonists are there to see. Rather than blame the cops, the blame is on those FEW who wanted a riot instead of a protest, just as people will gather at a car accident, because it scratches their itch.
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:47 pmAP says that the Chief said that some of the behavior was excessive. Supposedly two ‘television camermen’ were beaten with truncheons, and apparently rubber bullets should not have been fired into a crowd with children (by policy?).
His statements don’t appear to be a coverup, or to justify the assumptions by many that the LAPD is out of control or working for Bush.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:52 pmGuiliani’s man…
…must be Chief…
…it figures…
…shoot first…
…then deny wrongdoing tomorrow…
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:19 pmWell Paul in LA you took over this thread to spread baloney today. I am a 4th generation Californian who grew up in Claremont/Pomona and have been to LA too many times to count. The police overreacted by firing rubber bullets into crowds of protestors and then beating some with batons. That behavior is unjustified > PERIOD. I am glad I live in Georgia now.
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:41 pmGood point Jay. The actions of the criminal few does Not justify indiscriminate actions against everyone. From the footage it is difficult to tell how much time lapsed between the first orders from the helicopter and when the first shots were fired. There is also the question of the legality of ordering Everyone out of the park. These events deal with civil rights and Not immigration/illegal alien issues. As for the rock and debris throwers check for gang and/or agent provacateur connections.
May 3rd, 2007 at 3:01 am#233
“The point is that armed troops opened fireâ€
“The LAPD are not ‘troops.’ They are city cops.”
Then kindly explain why THEY ARE DRESSED AND ARMED AS TROOPS.
“with projectile weapons on a peaceful demonstration. Anyone presuming that the ENTIRE crowd was composed of “illegals†is an absolute idiot.†–patriot
“There is no indication that the police action was due to the status of the persons who were involved.”
Then kindly explain why the various terms describing them as “illegals” and “militants” and “latinos” keep being used as justification for the military-style action.
“I live here; I protest here every week. I have had HUNDREDS of interactions with LAPD–in general the relationship with protesters has been one of mutual restraint and professionalism.”
Here being where? I have lived in Los Angeles County for 38 years thus far. Presently in the SFV. My main point is really very simple. If there are some people running around (wearing rags or wearing badges take your pick) that cannot identify the “threat” precisely (especially given the level of surrveillence clearly evident due to the footage and use of warnings, etc before action) THEN WHAT THE FUCK ARE THEY DOING WITH IT. I am a taxpayer, American citizen, born and bred (as some say), from the deep South, and gee fellers …… if those derned fools can’t find the enemy when they are a’lookin straight at ‘em, well maybe we shouldn’a just fired all them derned fools for doing such a shitty job.
Whatever.
“• Please stop spreading lies”
Aren’t spreading any at all, only clear logic. I appreciate your thoughts as well, we all learn together or we do none of us learn at all …… DEMOCRACY.
“#238
Having viewed that tape, there isn’t anything there to be particularly excited about. The police were measured and deliberate — once they decide the permit is void, it’s OVER.”
Kindly explain to me again the whole concept of what is public property somehow demands ANY “permit” in the first place. Better yet, let’s maybe start with the concept of PUBLIC v PRIVATE.
“Peaceful protesters don’t contest such decisions by police, which is why we have had so many completely peaceful protests. But as you listen to the rhetoric, you can see that people confuse a relatively simple action by police for fascism.”
Personally, I think that “fascism” (as it was) was pretty much tame in comparison to what may be coming that my Great Grandchilren (15 years from now) will be inheriting. Corporate rule by “we own it” rather we the public who paid for it. So, was this public or private property? Besides, WHY IN THE FUCK WOULD SOME LAME HAVE ARMOR AND PROJECTILE WEAPONS ?????? I have personally worn the armor and geez, somehow, small rocks and bottles and such primitave weaponry that must be thrown just really, well, it pisses you off because it sure as hell doesn’t hurt.
“Hey, you ought to have tried protesting during Vietnam. THEN the cops were really nasty and uncontrolled. This was an unfortunate event, but to blame the cops for being cops (or fascists) is just hopelessly naive. The whole trick of protest is NOT to hassle the cops to the point that they attack the crowd.”
Was, and they were. From what I saw in all the footage, lames “attacking, controlling”, whatever, it sure as hell wasn’t some obviously unthreating people doing the tossing whatever (be it bricks, shit, or butterflys). The “trick” of protest is what this country is founded upon …… at it’s roots. Sissies have never taken anything in the history of humanity, sure weren’t a bunch of sissies that founded this great country. Nor that fought for equal rights, nor that fought for ANYTHING …… EVER.
“The results of the antagonists are there to see. Rather than blame the cops, the blame is on those FEW who wanted a riot instead of a protest, just as people will gather at a car accident, because it scratches their itch.”
Please expalin why lames are given weapons, and then paid to use them? In what universe can I beat Jill for something Jack did (especially when I know Jack did it)? Come on, shitty employees at best. Or are they not our employees (as in PUBLIC SERVANTS). What the hell does the word public now mean anyway? Is it totally backwards as in “Big Brother” on television (private made public to which some media outlet “owns the rights” to BTW), while my park, my lands, my Bill of Rights, my children’s future, my healthcare, my Constitution, on and on (plenty to choose from out there) are “owned” by some business (public made private)?
May 3rd, 2007 at 4:28 amI heard some local radio reports (KPFK) that stated that it was SWAT who attacked those people in MacArthur park. One of the interviews with a fellow who said that people weren’t even throwing things ANY MORE when he was hit in the ribs by a baton (at 7th & Alvarado).
If this chronology is correct, then the ‘problem group’ the event organizer spoke of acted directly against the LAPD at that corner, and the police assault was extended to the park — even though the permit was for an evening event. In that case, the earlier event was used as a pretext for barring the evening event — that smells of Bushco.
(Bush, in 2003, drove MLK Jr. birthday celebrants in Atlanta from their daylong event and forced them behind a long row of city buses.)
Video does clearly show that the LAPD dispersed a predominantly Latino group without bothering to translate into Spanish. The audio from the helicopters preceded the attacks in the video I’ve seen, but it was in English only. That also suggests a rightwing element.
Another fellow was hit in both elbows by rubber bullets (shot from behind) later in the park, who said that there was no warning.
If SWAT was deployed, that could mean that they were operating on a ‘force protection’ mandate instead of crowd control (which isn’t a SWAT duty, SFAIK). But it’s just a rumor at this point.
But a key point about the timing seems to be that the event which triggered SWAT (?) occured at least an hour before the scheduled evening event, at 7th and Alvarado, off the park itself. The police response to that, if such occured, may have been the excuse to use SWAT, which would be a closer relationship to Bushco, since they presumably get a lot of the terrorism funds and extra training. Maybe they wanted a training exercise.
In 2003, a Stryker and a tank were rolled out onto Wilshire Blvd., and the tank pointed its machine guns at the peaceful protesters. This is a previous example of an opportunistic use of a protest situation by rightwing elements, so it may be that if SWAT was deployed, it was opportunistic. It’s also now in question whether Gov. Schwarztika had a hand in swatting the innocent Latinos and lawful protesters — since his security detail has brandished merc-type weapons at street protesters as well.
“That behavior is unjustified > PERIOD. –Jay Randal
With the above SWAT issue included, the picture is more complex. Unjustified behavior like installing a private military base in San Diego, with a contract from the (illegally-elected) Governor, to come to LA to help out after natural disasters — these FEDERAL and state cabals — is NOT Chief Bratton.
The guy may be the thin blue line, again. But to the monolithic view, you inadvertently foster some rightwing antagonists/opportunist efforts to tar the entire agency for an opportunist event using a terrorism squad that is NOT normal LAPD crowd control.
The KPFK interviews attested to an incident with an LAPD officer being knocked-off her(?) (three-wheeled?) motorcycle by some in the crowd — after she bumped a woman who was in the street at 7th/Alvarado, apparently as the motorcycle officer was trying to herd people back onto the curbs (they were in the street).
IF that happened, then ‘force protection’ protocols would have been (internal to LAPD) justified. At that point SWAT would have had its pretext for deployment, if that happened. These events, attested to by interviewed eye witness/victims, would support the ‘force protection’ interpretation.
But if you stand in the street in front of the LAPD, they will generally ticket or arrest at protests. One can also suggest some disarray in the organized protest, since there do not appear to have been many crowd monitors to help the safe evacuation, maybe because the event had not started yet?
I still have a lot of questions about it.
May 3rd, 2007 at 5:01 amThere are two ways to speak to a police officer; yes sir and no sir. Properly raised Americans know this. When a police officer tells you to get off the street, you get off the street, don’t give them grief. You give them grief and make them angry they will respond in kind. Every action has a reaction and this is what happened. Did they “rise up” against the police for what they did? No, they can’t do it in their own country what makes you think they’ll do it here. They’re whining and crying they got jabbed with blunt sticks and shot with rubber bullets when they should be saying they’re glad they didn’t get shot and stabbed, which is probably what would’ve happened in the country they ran from.
As for the warning from the helicopters coming in English…yeah that’s the American language…are we supposed to feel bad because immigrants won’t try to integrate and insist on trying to making their broken down culture stick in the U.S.? Broken down as in it’s not working in they’re own country so they bring it here. Instead of hanging little Mexican flags from their rear view mirrors they should hang white surrender flags. If you want to come to America and be American then be American and integrate and not replace. If they don’t want to be American run the other way from their country, no ones stopping them from running into the ocean. It’s pretty sad when the citizens in Finland speak better English than the citizens in Miami and L.A.
May 3rd, 2007 at 12:28 pmIt’s amazing how a thread about an immigration rally attracts like a magnet so many fascist and racist authoritarians.
There are so many bigoted comments right upside, that is very difficult to answer all of them.
Fair warning: if you feel yourself urged to this post in a mean way, probably it’s because you’re a bigot.
May 3rd, 2007 at 2:15 pm“There are two ways to speak to a police officer; yes sir and no sir.”
Great. Now get your big toe off our impeachment rights, since you are so respecting of law and order.
“When a police officer tells you to get off the street, you get off the street, don’t give them grief.”
This was not a street. This was A PARK. Try to conceive the difference.
“they’re glad they didn’t get shot and stabbed, which is probably what would’ve happened in the country they ran from.”
Well, you racist pig. The people at MacArthur park no doubt include some ‘illegals.’ The great majority of Latino LEGAL RESIDENTS.
“As for the warning from the helicopters coming in English…yeah that’s the American language…”
What does that have to do with crowd control? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
“Instead of hanging little Mexican flags from their rear view mirrors they should hang white surrender flags.”
You wingers are the real surrender monkeys.
“It’s pretty sad when the citizens in Finland speak better English than the citizens in Miami and L.A.” –The Last American
That’s sad? Finland is a white supremacist’s dream. Why don’t you move there?
May 3rd, 2007 at 4:40 pm“The great majority of Latino LEGAL RESIDENTS.”
The great majority ARE Latino legal residents. MacArthur Park is a community, not a parking lot.
May 3rd, 2007 at 4:43 pm#80
#75.
I’ve got a better solution – the Illegal immigrants can stay here – IF & WHEN they return from a 3 year tour of duty in Iraq. That way we can solve two problems – we’ll cut down the # of actual US citizens dieing in Iraq; and these people presently breaking the law can earn citizenship by showing they will really fight for this country.
go chew on that for a bit!!
Comment by chris — May 2, 2007 @ 9:47 am
About 69,000 non U.S. soldiers are in Iraq. Why aren’t you?
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/texassouthwest/stories/112806dnteximmigmilitary.331e2bd.html
May 3rd, 2007 at 5:25 pmYo all u racist bitches go to hell ….immmigrants got to stand up for their rights in this country it was really horrible what those police officers did.. I mean the protest was peaceful they had no right to do that. Their was kids and parents in this rally this is police brutally
May 3rd, 2007 at 7:11 pmI see lots of comments about “illegal” Mexican immigrants and how they don’t deserve any rights.
Haven’t seen anyone comment on the fact that the US actually took CA from THEM. How about some self-serving arguments about the “legality” of that move?
May 3rd, 2007 at 11:53 pmKatherine — From what I understand all this started when a woman police officer got pushed off her motorcycle by protestors…explain how that is a “peaceful protest”, please.
Also, immigrants already have rights, it’s the illegal immigrants that want rights, and being against the illegal immigrants movement does not make someone “racist”.
May 4th, 2007 at 6:28 pm“Katherine — From what I understand all this started when a woman police officer got pushed off her motorcycle by protestors…explain how that is a “peaceful protestâ€, please.” –The Last American
A single incident is solved by arresting that person or persons. That person may have been related to the woman hit by the motorcycle, in which case the ‘peaceful’ question moves to the police themselves.
The march itself, like the much larger march downtown, was entirely peaceful.
May 4th, 2007 at 6:35 pmWhen you are a racist opposed to what you call ‘illegal immigration,’ then indeed that does make you a racist.
May 4th, 2007 at 6:36 pmI believe that our Constitution does not distinguish between ‘legal’ or ‘illegal’ immigrants when addressing inalienable rights. I might also be mistaken, but the Declaration of Independence begins with the follwoing 3 words: We the People. I’m assuming we should have that changed to read : We the legally resident People. As for the use of less-lethal weapons, what ever happened to the use of high pressure water hoses to disperse mobs? Oh, and a PEACEFUL, legally organized and sanctioned gathering of individuals in a public park epitomizes what this country is all about. Or does clandestine meetings of anarchy sound more palatable? And for those less fortunate to know first hand about illegal workers in California, yeah, they are the ones laboring in the fields for measley wages and substandard living conditons, they are the ones doing the jobs that no one else wants. If you don’t beleive me, ask any black man holding up a sign that reads: Will work for food. If you want to end the illegal immigration issue, then look at the countires of origin and ask the leaders to intervene or risk losing vital US funded economic/military aid. The US would be flooded with illegal immigrants from other countries were it not for 2 things: the Atlantic and Pacific oceans.
May 4th, 2007 at 6:52 pmThere are several issues at hand here. The main one is in regards to the response of the Police. The lessor one is in regards to illegal immigrants.
First off, the Hispanic people were not the only people at the park, and were not the only ones beaten. Second, how does anyone condone beating a child, a women or anyone for that matter unless it is a life or death situation?
One of the main lawsuits already filed involves a women reporter for a news station that was beaten by a Police Officer until her wrists was broken, and the officer hit her in the breast. What kind of sick person condones beating a women or a child or shooting rubber bullets at them?
What is the point of this, unless to create fear or to show power?
Every officer that hit someone at that rally needs to be removed from the police force and never be allowed to act in that capacity again. Furthermore their employment record, and FBI record should show clearly that they were removed from duty for assault and battery, and illegal use of force. Regardless of who gave the orders, the Chief of Police should step down, and the Mayor should not only apologize for the incident, but should promise that it will never happen again.
In regards to the illegal immigrants: This is a perfect place to round them up peacefully, and take them back to Mexico where they belong until they can legally immigrate in the US.
May 5th, 2007 at 3:26 pm“Just because your white you think you can do anything you want “.. White people werent in this country to start off with. They came and took over Indians, and thats why Indians have reservations around the world. So white people are basically immigrants because they ‘re white asses immigrated to the united states from England!! France!! or wherever the hell you guyz are from! just like you tell us mexicans! and no i’m not saying anything bad, but its messed up how our race marched in peace, and the LAPD destrupticed everything! and The police should get in trouble for that..
May 8th, 2007 at 12:14 am30 MILLION ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS & WORST THAN HITLER US POLITICIANS
USA who claims to be champion of Civil Rights and Richest Democracy has 10% of its Population with no documents. Which are almost 30 million people living in this country who is undocumented out of the total population of 290 million.
The various branches of the US Federal government like Congress, Senate and President himself has been stating since 2005 that there are more than 12 million illegal immigrants/undocumented immigrants and they are working on providing some relief to them on humanitarian grounds. After almost 2 years that relief is still illusive.
This Federal government and politicians belonging to both Political Parties are misrepresenting, there are another 12-15 million people who have entered USA legally but has over stayed in America due to various reasons and does not want to go back. So here we are talking about 30 million human lives. All those who are in various branches of the Federal Governments and running state & local governments are playing with 30 million human lives as if they are toys and enjoying the miseries and sufferings of these human lives and still call themselves “Champions of Democracy & Civil Rights.”
The Immigration and Custom Enforcement ICE is every day indulging in Selective Enforcement of Law rather than stopping the new influx of unskilled individuals entering USA illegally for the benefit of big businesses, who have vested interest in new cheap unskilled labor which they can not find in America. ICE is breaking up families, breaking up lives that have not seen anything but America for almost 2 decades. Then ICE without application of human mind, compassion and feelings separating US born underage adolescent children from their undocumented parents. There are no other words for these cowardly acts other than barbaric, inhuman and human genocide.
There is no point in waiting for US Politicians to get serious about Immigration Reforms; they will always choose the path of least resistance. Here we are talking about 30 million human lives, why as the most civilized and richest society in the world we are not behaving like human beings? Do we have lost compassion, passion, emotions and brain all of which gives us the ability to differentiate between ethical & unethical, moral and immoral and finally what is right & what is wrong? Are we mere Animals? US Politicians are worse than Hitler who took 6 million innocent human lives of Jews in Europe. In USA these Politicians who swear by Human Rights are destroying 30 million human lives and what we should call them?
Dave Makkar
May 8th, 2007 at 3:28 pmhttp://www.citizensfordemocracynj.org
FEDERAL & NEW JERSEY SPEND $100,000.00 TO PROTECT A RACIST COP
Who says apartheid and racial inequalities have been abolished in America? Field office of Immigration and Custom Enforcement ICE in Newark, New Jersey belonging to Federal Government and the State of New Jersey has spend almost $100,000.00 to save a white Patrolman Michael Dotro accused of Police Brutality under racial bias by a colored skin store clerk Rajnikant Parikh belonging to a minority community.
This community of Indian origin talk about their rich culture, heritage, big wealth created in America and non-violent very docile peace loving nature has mixed up their cowardliness & factionalism with that for not helping the poor victim Rajnikant Parikh of Police Brutality. They never even raised their concern or protested why the Police Union called the entire community of Indian origin living in New Jersey, Cockroaches, Animals, Illiterates, Illegal go home in the presence of Print & TV Media.
By the way New Jersey is legally corrupt and legally racially segregated state under a political rookie, maverick and a thug from Wall Street Governor Jon Corzine. He started his political adventures in 2000 with the blessings of then President Bill Clinton & his wife Hillary Clinton both of who lacks core convictions and was the first one to support him. Jon Corzine created a history in America at that time by buying a US Senate seat for $63 million but soon he got fed up and gave up that seat for another $84 million to become the King of the world’s most corrupt & racist Princely State New Jersey. Against the state average of 28% polling, Corzine got 97% polling in the township of Irvington!
A piece of advice to Senator Barak Obama and his supporters please do not waste your energy, money, time and other resources in the contest for White House. If the Federal & State of New Jersey alone can spend over $100,000.00 to protect a white Patrolman Dotro, think of Federal and all 50 state machineries how much they can spend to protect their white supremacy? Senator please spends that money and resources to bring one type of education in America. Springfield Twp. has class size of 18-20 and every student 6th grade onward has a Lap Top with broad band connection to carry home. Irvington Twp. class size 35-38 and students sit on window sills and play ground being used as a parking lot! Both the towns are 5 miles apart and are in the legally racially segregated Princely State of New Jersey with 588 Kingdoms in 566 racially carved out Princely Estates.
Maverick, Rookie and Thug Corzine’s Attorney General Stubner abandoned the 3 month long on going investigations into the financial misappropriations of a School Board started on my complaints. He ordered audit of our small business in 375 sq feet which lasted for almost 2 months, whereas our previous audits including the 1 by IRS never lasted for more than 2 days! In 7 years of our existence we have been audited 6 times and similar businesses belonging to the community who controls trade, commerce, real estate and politics are rarely audited, in some cases 10 years! In New Jewrsey “Jews are above law†they can even blow up a Hill to make luxury condos!
Is New Jersey part of the champion of Democracy “United States of America?â€
May 8th, 2007 at 3:40 pmDave Makkar
RAJNIKANT PARIKH WAS DEPORTED ON APRIL 12, 2006 BY FEW RACIST IN NJ.
http://www.citizensfordemocracynj.org
Dave Makkar — Are you telling us that the U.S. politicians are throwing 30 million immigrants in gas chambers, lining them up against walls and shooting them, burning their homes and cities, making carpets and lamp shades from the hair from their dead bodies, and burying them in mass graves? Don’t compare U.S. politicians to Hitler. The U.S. was one of the countries that liberated the Jews from the camps. Immigrants know the consequences of what can happen to their families when they come here illegally and THEY are putting their OWN families in jeopardy with the poor choices they make.
May 10th, 2007 at 9:05 amdude what the hell is wrong with u people and treat them like that.
May 16th, 2007 at 3:36 pmI hate these videos. What videos like these don’t show are the peopel throwing rocks, spitting, and attacking police who are there for no reason but to make sure things don’t get out of hand. What of the video by the mexican networks? Those broadcasters were actually in an area they were not allowed to be taping in, and ofcourse they show only the police reacting, but not why they are reacting. I have no compassion for these people. Go ahead, get your amnesty, but make no attempt to get your citizenship legally on your own.
May 29th, 2007 at 1:08 pm