ThinkFast: May 2, 2007
ThinkFast: May 2, 2007
The Los Angeles Times describes yesterday’s immigration rallies as “a sea of U.S. flags, waved cheerfully by people asking to join a country conflicted about their welcome. Other than a Fourth of July on the Washington Mall, it’s hard to think of a more full-throated pledge of allegiance.”
U.S. diplomats are returning from Iraq with post-traumatic stress disorder and other “debilitating, stress-related symptoms that have afflicted many U.S. troops, prompting the State Department to order a mental health survey of 1,400 employees who have completed assignments there.”
The re-enlistment rate of mid-level soldiers in the U.S. army “dropped from 96 percent in 2005 to 84 percent in the first quarter of this year.”
Congressional leaders will meet President Bush at the White House today to open negotiations on new Iraq legislation. “Several Republican leaders said Tuesday that they were likely to support such benchmarks, and White House aides said Tuesday that Mr. Bush…might back such a measure — but only if the benchmarks are nonbinding.”
“Despite the buildup to a possible meeting between senior U.S. and Iranian officials, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and her Iranian counterpart are unlikely to hold substantive one-on-one talks at a conference in Egypt on Friday.”
Rudy Giuliani’s law firm “is perhaps the nation’s most aggressive lobbyist for coal-fired power plants, heavy emitters of air pollutants and carbon dioxide, a gas associated with global warming. Environmentalists say the firm played a significant role in persuading the Bush administration to roll back major provisions of the Clean Air Act.”
“The inspector general of the Department of Commerce, the watchdog charged with rooting out wrongdoing at the agency, is himself the subject of three separate government investigations into allegations that he misspent his budget and retaliated against employees who raised concerns about his actions.”
In Nov. 2005, a Senate staffer inserted into the Patriot Act a “provision that would change the rules so that federal prosecutors could live outside their districts to serve in other jobs,” the “second example in which the Justice Department sought to use the renewal of the Patriot Act antiterrorism law to assert tighter control over U.S. attorneys.”
And finally: In Tony Snow’s absence, how did Dana Perino do leading the press briefings? “I think we got through it just fine,” she said, but added that she was “never able to beat” Tony’s performances. ABC News’s Ann Compton praised Perino, stating “She was very quick with e-mail responses. … Her BlackBerry hours were so arduous she ran into pain problems in her right index finger.”
What did we miss? Let us know in the comments section.
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Iraqi Parliament Planning TWO MONTH Recess
May 1 2007 crooksandliars.com
Yes, you read that correctly. The Iraqi parliament – who our brave young men and women are fighting to protect and preserve – is planning on taking a two month vacation during the months of July and August. This is wrong on so many levels. Exactly what are we fighting for again? This doesn’t seem like a government committed to getting things done, despite our huge investment and sacrifice. Absolutely shameful…It should come as no surprise that Secretary Rice’s top priority is the having the Iraqis finish up the oil laws.
Senator Levin weighs in:
…the Assembly is apparently planning to go on a two month recess at the end of June. Let me repeat that since it is so unbelievable – the Iraqi Council of Representatives is apparently planning to go on a two month recess at the end of June. And incredibly, Hasan Suneid, a lawmaker and adviser to Prime Minister Maliki, was quoted…as saying that “time is irrelevant.†Well time is plenty relevant to us, our troops and their families.
I hope the Iraqi parliament brings back nice pictures from their vacation!
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:07 amBetter pass Women’s BlackBerry Pain Avoidance Legislation to assist Ms. Perino. The Feminists will get behind you on this one. Why did those stupid men invent the oppressive BlackBerry! To hold women back!
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:10 amWhy not go on an extended vacation? They’ve got someone at home to do all their killing for them…. (sarc off)
Re-enlistment rates are dropping? Don’t blame them at all for getting the heck out of Dodge.
How did Dana do? Horrible. She was too busy tripping over her own words to get the Republican’ts lies out efficiently. She made me miss SnowJob.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:14 amAnd to think, it was only last January when Republicans in the Senate filibustered a non-binding resolution opposing the war. Look how far they’ve come!
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:18 ames un bistec…
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:19 amFirst off, I am not against legal immigration. People that go though the process of becoming a citizen do so to show not only compliance with the law, but allegiance to our country. I respect these people. I welcome them. And I offer my hand in friendship and any help I can provide. Just as I offer that to any law abiding citizen of the United States.
The problem is illegal immigrants. People that sneak in. No paper work. No ID. No way to track them. No allegiance to the country thy now leach off of. Free health care. Free schools, and no restriction to government services. And I have an issue with folks that sneak in and make no effort to assimilate to our culture. If you are going to be living in the US then learn the language. I shouldn’t have to select a language for every interaction with an electronic device. I understand that most of the illegal immigrants are very hard workers that do work that most Americans will not do.
I believe that the laws must be enforced. If an illegal immigrant commits a crime they should be deported. A few weeks ago an illegal immigrant got drunk and drove his car into 2 teenage girls in Virginia Beach. Some will say it’s a problem with drunk driving. (and it is) but as it turns out the illegal was already arrested 4 times. Had he been turned over to immigration officials he would have been deported and the 2 girls would be alive now.
The way to fix the immigration problem is to enforce the law. I also believe that if a company hires an “undocumented worker†they get fined. $10,000 per undocumented illegal immigrant. I had to give my ID to my employer before I could work. I don’t see a problem with that. The same standard should be set for apartment rental. I understand the burden that this type of thing would put on businesses that need the cheap labor or the tenants. But I’m willing to pay a little bit more for fruits and veggies to eliminate illegal immigration.
We also need to build the fence to make it a lot harder to get in.
Now I do think that the process could be made a little easier. But it should be harder than crossing nee high water.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:20 amIf the Iraqi parliament has the “luxury” of taking a two month vacation, so should our troops. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. It’s clear that they aren’t very concerned about the future of their success (as we purport to be although we all know it has absolutely NOTHING to do with us wishing them a successful democracy, it’s all about our lust for oil). If the highest offices in the Iraqi government feel such lack of concern that they are taking two months off, what the hell are we doing in there?? What the hell are we sacrificing our children for? What the hell is going on here??
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:21 amThis is becoming a total farce! It’s time for a people’s revolt I suspect. When the government whom we are attempting to help, throws it into our faces that they are taking a two month vacation, then it’s clear that we’re throwing good money after bad…..sacrificing life and limb and they could give a royal $hit less…..that it’s “over” for us in there.
Wake up, people. Here we have bush attempting to receive a blank check to watch over those oil wells with the blood of our military’s best on their hands and the Iraqi Parliament doesn’t give a crap and is taking 8 weeks off. Appalling. And, time to get out of there.
It’s time for another American Revolution. This is absolutely revolting!
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:24 amFirst, immigration is great. I like immigration. But there is a legal immigration process. Those who are here illegally haven’t followed that process. That doesn’t make our country oppressive to them; it makes us a law-abiding country. Citizenship is a privilege; not a right or entitlement for every Joe Blow
Secondly, immigration helps fill low wage jobs that others don’t want to fill – or so it is often claimed. I agree – legal immigration does this nicely. But I say, that is the problem, at least with ‘illegal immigration’. It further promulgates a misconceived perception of entitlement of some young adults in this country – a perception that ‘they’re better than’ having to pick up trash or work at McDonalds. Newsflash — nobody is better than anyone else; so perhaps stopping illegal immigration would force some in this country here legally to realize they have to work to be something in this country just like everywhere else.
Thirdly, I think the best course of action would be for the US gvmt to actually enforce our immigration laws. Just put cattle gates around the marchers and load ‘em up and drive them to Mexico. You may argue that is harsh, cruel, inhumane all you want but the bottom line is if these people are here illegally have no rights. They are criminals. They can either go to jail (and I don’t want to pay taxes for their sorry ass in jail) or they can return to THEIR home country; apply for citizenship and come back here when they get it! There are no shortcuts to citizenship.
In summary – round up and deport the illegals. I don’t care how much they may claim to help our economy. They are breaking the law. The answer is not changing or ignoring the law as they claim; the answer is complying with the law. They should try it out for a change and stop filling our streets with their ignorance! I personally am sick of it.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:27 amBush supports ‘nonbinding’ benchmarks measures..!!
what is that suppose to mean?!!…
Give me the money now…and I can change my mind later…and no accountability.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:30 amIf the benchmarks are nonbinding, what’s the point? If the Democrats don’t put some teeth in the spending bill, they have just rolled over and the last elections have just been disappeared. If that is the best they can do, I don’t want them.
As far as the Iraqi Congress going on vacation for two months, I think that it is a great idea. We can put our troops on vacation for two months. Since “time is irrelevant,” we can rotate the troops home in groups for a few weeks. I’m sure that they would appreciate that.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:31 amNon-binding sums up Busch’s whole mentality.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:36 amUnglued
WTF does Condimelda DO all frikkin day long?
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:37 amYou want Free Trade? Then bring down the borders. Free immigration. There’s so much hypocrisy in America’s quest for globalization and free trade coupled with its hostility toward international bodies like the UN and the ICC. It only seems to like the World Bank, the IMF and the WTO because it actually controls them. I say we all move the USA and vote to make the US a democracy –sort of what the US did in Spanish California and Hawaii.
Kids, the Iraqi parliament is taking a “recess”. It’s a legislative body, not the civil service. The bureaucrats, police, and Iraqi army won’t be going on ‘vacation’. Take a valium. What will be interesting is whether the Iraqi parliament passes that Oil bill before the recess. I suspect they’re dragging this out so they don’t have to. They’re hoping to run down the clock on that imperialist piece of crap the White House imposed on them.
As for the veto, I say Congress makes the timetable non-binding, but reduces the dollar amount to one third of what Bush asked for. That’ll have Bush back begging for more cash in September. By then, the surge will have proven itself a success or, more likely, a failure and most of the reluctant Republicans will begin to have reelection panic.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:40 amAproximately 150 of our young women and men will come home in body bags while the Iraqi government get some rest and relaxation during a war in it’s own country.
SUPPORT THE TROOPS! LET BUSH’S VETO STAND!
Bush vetoed the money to continue the war. He’s the one who cut off funding!
Provide money ONLY for bringing out kids home ALIVE and giving them the care they need when they get here!
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:43 amInterview with former British Minister of Defense:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,2070256,00.html
Most interesting quote:
“Sometimes … Tony had made his point with the president, and I’d made my point with Don [Rumsfeld] and Jack [Straw] had made his point with Colin [Powell] and the decision actually came out of a completely different place. And you think: what did we miss? I think we missed Cheney.”
It’s mainly self-serving garbage, but it’s more of the same pathetic hand-wringing from warmongers.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:43 amBush must admit to Americans that US occupied Iraq for its OIL only!
Wednesday 2nd of May 2007
by Jay Randal
President George W. Bush must cut the bull-crap, so tell the American public that US occupied Iraq for its OIL, so admit soldiers die to make OIL CEOs richer.
He must stop spewing baloney about democracy being nurtured, in Iraq, and stop lying about fighting terror groups there to prevent them from coming to America.
Most of the horrific car bombings are Iraqis fighting sectarian civil war, between Sunnis and Shiites, and Iraqis pissed-off at coalition troops subjugating them.
A very small percentage of the attacks are terrorists, but nobody has any proof of them being connected to Osama bin Laden, nor if they have direct ties to Iran.
The complete chaos in Iraq has created conditions for various acts of mayhem, and US presence creates fuel for extremists, so if US departs the inferno will abate.
Iraq Fiasco War must end now and troops returned home!
(Jay Randal, political activist and writer in Georgia, USA.)
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:44 amIraqi Parliament Planning TWO MONTH Recess
May 1 2007 crooksandliars.com
Comment by Larry from C — May 2, 2007 @ 9:07 am
Looks like they’re getting the hang of this democracy thing after all. Way to be a role model for the Iraqis Mr. Bush.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:49 amThis Sunday there will be a salute to isreal parade in New York. I can’t wait for lou dobbs’ Monday show. No doubt he will be having fits over the isreali flags that will be flown and carried at the rally.
Bwahahaha! Oh I crack me up.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:51 amGiven her attitude toward the press and the American people, I’d have thought that it was Dana’s middle finger which would have been strained at this point.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:00 amTo the idiot named Chris:
Breaking the law is invading a country, occupying it, provoking a 2 million people exodus and stealing their resources. Thats AGAINST the law. You,. in the past thread, said the police should have used real bullets. That wouldnt be against the law, right? Killing people? Why do you put the law as your argument if you are not willing to follow it, piece of sh*t?
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:04 amYahoo news: “International court issues first warrants for Darfur war crimes”
When will they issue warrants for the PNAC crowd?
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:04 amNon-binding benchmarks.
Can someone tell me if this is for the benefit of the Iraqi government or for the benefit of George W. Bush?
He has no goals to end this war. Has he EVER been accountable for anything in his life?
Even if the benchmarks were non-binding, do we want to tell the Iraqis that up front?
Hell, then their parliament can go on a six month vacation.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:13 amComment by Juan C — May 2, 2007 @ 10:04 am
I have a question for you.
When 180,000 US citizens entered Iraq in 2003, (which some call a crime) it was called an invasion.
If 12 Million people enter a country without the express consent of the government of the country they are entering it (which is a crime), would that not also be an invasion?
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:14 amhacker bob,
Not to peeve but did the 12 Million have spy satellites, attack aircraft, ballistic missles, artillery, tanks, and machine guns?
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:19 amJuan – please stop attacking me; it shows you’re not open to discussion.
I am not a piece of shit; people who cannot engage in discussion are that.
First – I agree – the war in Iraq is an invasion; it is illegal and I count the hours until this schmuck of a President is held accountable.
Secondly – thank you #24 – entering this country illegally is also an invasion. It is also illegal
Thirdly – I rest my argument in the law & yes firing real bullets would, without justification, have been against the law as an unreasonable retaliation for rock throwing. My apologies for overstating in the previous thread in that regard.
Nevertheless, I still rest my argument in the fact that these individuals are breaking the law and have no rights; not even to peaceably protest/rally.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:20 amhacker bob, thats beyond stupid, sorry.
You answer your question by thinking in which terms those 180,000 citizens entered Iraq, in which terms or what for, those 12 million people enter your country. Do you have any sense of danger around an illegal immigrant?
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:21 amChris, you were discredited when you wrote that people should be fired with real bullets. Be responsible for what you write.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:27 am#15
I agree. The Democrats cannot claim that they oppose the war/occupation if they do not support cutting off the funds. As Congressman Kucinich has tried to point out, apparently to no avail, there is already enough money in the pipeline to make sure that the troops are taken care of in the field and to make sure that they are immediately withdrawn, which means in a two tho three month period. Also, as ThinkFast has reported, less military personnel are re-enlisting perhaps because they finally do not see the sense of having the government use them for their own ends to cover their lies as cannon fodder in Iraq. Soldiers resist. Say NO to the war machine in Iraq.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:28 amdogjudge@23
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:32 amThe boyking has said that the US will not leave Iraq while he is co-president. Why does congress not believe him? Nothing short of defunding will bring our troops home while the junta occupies our country.
Comment by Juan C — May 2, 2007 @ 10:21 am
Those 12 million have broken 12 million laws. They are criminals and I am always concerned around criminals.
And to show I am not completely one sided:
The businesses that hire those 12 million criminals are also criminal and should be punished.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:35 amWTF does Condimelda DO all frikkin day long?
Comment by OleHippieChick — May 2, 2007 @ 9:37 am
You mean besides shoe shopping? Love that name. Maybe she “clears brush” behind the White House with George.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:37 amnd I am always concerned around criminals.
Comment by hacker bob
Are you sure? You seemed to defend whenever you could the actions of George Bush.
One thing is to come illegally to this country to WORK, and another thing is to get into a country to seize the OIL ministry.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:38 am#1…seems like the Iraqis are following the George Bush plan for governing. Will they dance with bongos while our troops “bring democracy to the middle east”?
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:41 amAre you sure? You seemed to defend whenever you could the actions of George Bush.
Comment by Juan C — May 2, 2007 @ 10:38 am
Some things I do defend, most I do not. And you know this. We have had this conversation. You confuse my defending the powers of the OFFICE with defending the man himself. Just as I defended Clintons powers as a President even though I did not care for him a bit.
One thing is to come illegally to this country to WORK, and another thing is to get into a country to seize the OIL ministry.
Comment by Juan C — May 2, 2007 @ 10:38 am
Oh, DEGREES of legallity. So, in your opinion, a little illegality is OK.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:45 amComment by Juan C — May 2, 2007 @ 10:04 am
Chris and Kevin got their assignment sheets this morning “First, state that you’re for immigration, then blah, blah, blah
It’s funny that two trolls show up at the same time on the same thread sounding so alike. Must have been a scheduling mixup.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:47 ami know there’s a lot going on, but let’s not overlook global warming as newsworthy:
http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=scienceNews&storyID=2007-05-01T191112Z_01_N01224770_RTRUKOC_0_US-GLOBALWARMING-ICE.xml&pageNumber=1&imageid=&cap=&sz=13&WTModLoc=NewsArt-C1-ArticlePage1
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:47 amOh, DEGREES of legallity. So, in your opinion, a little illegality is OK.
Comment by hacker bob — May 2, 2007 @ 10:45 am
Yes. I couldnt care less about legal issues. I care about justice.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:48 amThe Iraq War/Occupation is nothing more than CORPORATE WELFARE. Its being paid for by selling US Treasuries to the Chinese that’ll eventually have to be paid back by your grandchildren working three shifts a day at Walmart. Eventually a mature politician is going to have to raise our taxes to pay for this fiasco.
Why the Democrats “compromised” by offering $130 BILLION more of our tax dollars to line the pockets of Bush’s contractor/war machine friends is OBSCENE.
The only “benchmarks” Bush wants to meet are:
a) pass the Iraq oil bill privatizing their oil fields so we can control them for 30 years and take 70% of the profits.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:49 amb) set up the military bases to control the puppet Iraq govt. and project military power in the Middle East.
c) set up operations to do both (a) and (b) to Iran
If 12 Million people enter a country without the express consent of the government of the country they are entering it (which is a crime), would that not also be an invasion?
Comment by hacker bob — May 2, 2007 @ 10:14 am
Why has nothing been done to stop the influx of illegals? And why, only now in this administration, is INS looking for illegals on worksites. Who enabled, no encouraged, this migration by failing to enforce existing laws so big business could get the cheapest labor possible?
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:51 am“I care about justice.”
Says the man who believes killing U.S. soldiers in Iraq is “justifed.”
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:53 amLarry from C,
Absolutely right on about the corporate welfare point. Our troops are being used for the personal gain of a group of elites.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:54 amYesterday they had their chance to arrest the illegal immigrant that are breaking the law. Send them back to their country. Find the companies that employ these illegals. securty the borders. Any child that are born in the USA of illegals parents should not not be American Citzens.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:55 amThese incompetent assclowns have broken our military.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:55 amHope we don’t need them any time soon after we end this current fiasco.
hacker bob, you and I both know that the only way to stop illegal immigration is to jail and throw away the key of the corporate cowards who are providing them jobs.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:57 amThrow the key away.
When a couple dozen ceos are rotting in jail, then perhaps a message will be sent to the others who hire them.
Says the man who believes killing U.S. soldiers in Iraq is “justifed.â€
Comment by Exley
Heh. I knew you would be lurking around…
By the way, about the glass of wine when Pinochet died (and not killed) who said I was happy? Have you seen people in bars, really happy when the drink? ;)
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:58 amAs of 2002, Mexico ranked fourth in the world in billionaires, behind the US, Japan and Germany. Nothing will change in the realm of poverty for Mexico as long as we continue to support Mexico’s economic policies by offering an escape valve for pressure on the government of Mexico to make economic reforms.
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:01 amUndocumented workers, grateful for any job, will work for lower wages and minimal or no benefits, therefore enabling employers to make higher business profits.
It’s no coincidence that the Repubs support amnesty. This is a big-business ploy that’s sung to the tune of heartstring “justiceâ€. Who financed Bush’s elections?
In 1999, under President Bill Clinton, the US government collected $3.69 million in fines from 890 companies for employing undocumented workers. In 2004, under President George Bush, the federal government collected $188,500 from 64 companies for such illegal employment practices. And in 2004, the Bush Administration levied NO fines for US companies employing undocumented workers.
The humane and just approach that will lead to fairer wages and greater overall quality of life for all of Mexico and immigrants in the U.S is to enforce current immigration laws. Big business does not want that to occur.
Juan,
I am EXTREMELY happy when I drink!
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:07 amShane – I am not a troll; I agree with 90% of this site and visit it regularly. If you were to do your research you would see that.
I find it interesting that anyone expressing their own opinion that may depart from that of the majority on here is automatically a troll. Way to be more open minded than those you claim to disapprove of so much currently in office.
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:13 amBetter pass Women’s BlackBerry Pain Avoidance Legislation to assist Ms. Perino. The Feminists will get behind you on this one. Why did those stupid men invent the oppressive BlackBerry! To hold women back!
Comment by jonny
Try not to be frightened, little man.
If your knees stop knocking, some naive woman might actually have sex with you.
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:29 amhacker bob, you and I both know that the only way to stop illegal immigration is to jail and throw away the key of the corporate cowards who are providing them jobs.
Throw the key away.
When a couple dozen ceos are rotting in jail, then perhaps a message will be sent to the others who hire them.
Comment by RUCerious
Nail. On. Head.
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:30 amWell, illegal immigrants SHOULD feel “conflicted about their welcome”.
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:32 amThey are here illegally.
I don’t rob a store and then run around waving the store logo and complain that the store doesn’t do enough to help me.
Nevertheless, I still rest my argument in the fact that these individuals are breaking the law and have no rights; not even to peaceably protest/rally.
Comment by chris
Are you saying that ALL of the protesters were illegal immigrants?
Sorry, but if they bought a permit, they have every right to peaceably protest. This is still America. Remember?
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:33 amComment by chris — May 2, 2007 @ 10:20 am
Chris, you seem to want to re-write the Constitution. Take a close look at the Bill of Rights. It grants rights to people, not just citizens. Take a close look at the 14th Amendment, which again grants rights to all persons, not just citizens.
Now, look at the Military Commissions Act of 2006, whereby the President can hold even legal immigrants indefinitely, or try them in a Military Commission and convict them with secret evidence. This is in direct contravention of the Constitution.
Unless you amend the Constitution, all people have certain Constitutional Rights, not just citizens.
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:39 amSo South America has come up with a version of “Manifest Destiny” – what’s the problem again?
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:42 amGood Morning RUCerious, so good to see your post’s, not just because we agree on most thing’s but to note you are doing well….
Hey BnF, again we agree acoss the board on elimating the funding and stoping the war…No suprise huh…I have continued my work, which will come to another close today untill the next cyce..
Today is another hump day and as usual I am a day late, a drink short and millions behind….
The riot’s in L.A and a clip of Kent state yesterday brought night mare’s of previous event’s both of the war and civil right’s….This may be a very hot and riotious summer..I plan to be in the front lines all I can..
As you all go about your day, please remind those that you love how much they mean to you…Plant a tree or flower for our planet and the future….Write your representatives and demand Peace….Impeach…Blessings
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:47 amhacker bob, you and I both know that the only way to stop illegal immigration is to jail and throw away the key of the corporate cowards who are providing them jobs.
Throw the key away.
When a couple dozen ceos are rotting in jail, then perhaps a message will be sent to the others who hire them.
Comment by RUCerious — May 2, 2007 @ 10:57 am
Just great, he’s back;-)
I said earlier that my view is not one sided. I agree that the corporations that employ illegals are also criminal (see #31). But the person that is here illegally is not a victim, just as the corporation that hires the illegal is not a victim. They are BOTH criminal and should BOTH be punished.
I am not a doctor, but I believe that you should not just treat the symptom or just the disease. You should treat the entire body! In the case of illegal immigration, that would mean holding the corporations and the immigrant responsable.
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:57 am“I am not a doctor…”
But you play one on television.
May 2nd, 2007 at 12:03 pmI would like to have one of your “thinkers” explain to me why you are cheerleading the amnesty of millions of people who have broken our laws (many, many laws, not just immigration laws) in this country and committed crimes against Americans?
This is not a liberal issue. Liberals have always supported union organization and the welfare of American workers. I’m an American historian with an expertise in labor history. The idea of these people being imported illegally by corporations and businesses, taking jobs away from legal citizens, stealing identities, and, dont’ forget, running with the Mexican Mafia in their free time–an organization that extorts profits from legal immigrants and cuts off people’s heads with machetes if they don’t comply–then demonstrate in our streets for privileges is unbearable.
I know the Dems need votes and all that, but is it really worth destroying the very fabric of the law and society to get Hispanic votes?
Bush allows Hispanics from all over Latin America to sneak into the U. S. to relieve pressure on dictators so their societies won’t erupt into revolutions that might overthrow these tyrants and replace them with rulers who won’t pander to the neocons–that is documented by responsible American journalists.
Liberals who appear to buy into the corporate talking points that “Americans won’t work” “It’s all the fault of the U. S. that Mexico is a mess” “the U. S. economy will collapse without illegal workers” (what will happen if they do become legal and have to be paid properly? Oh, we’ll need MORE illegals) are either as stupid as the neocons who make up these slogans, or they’re taking money under the table to promote the corporate agenda.
May 2nd, 2007 at 12:05 pm“I am not a doctor…â€
But you play one on television.
Comment by Exley — May 2, 2007 @ 12:03 pm
No, but I play doctor with the Mrs. as often as she will let me!
May 2nd, 2007 at 12:07 pmMary Poplins: I agree, why are these people not arrested? I guess it’s because the corps arrange the demonstrations and tell the illegals they have immunity to protest in the streets. Gotta love it.
May 2nd, 2007 at 12:08 pmOh, and doesn’t anyone get disturbed that these people are so stupid they actually can’t understand why they’re not welcomed and they actually think it’s okay to break the law with abandon? Could people like that ever understand democracy? I think not.
May 2nd, 2007 at 12:10 pmCould people like that ever understand democracy? I think not.
Comment by teak — May 2, 2007 @ 12:10 pm
Teak, thanks for the anti-immigration propaganda. We will call you when we are done laughing.
May 2nd, 2007 at 12:18 pmNo, but I play doctor with the Mrs. as often as she will let me!
Comment by hacker bob
**clearing throat**
Details…
May 2nd, 2007 at 12:19 pmOh, and doesn’t anyone get disturbed that these people are so stupid they actually can’t understand why they’re not welcomed and they actually think it’s okay to break the law with abandon? Could people like that ever understand democracy? I think not.
Comment by teak
Oh well, you know — “those people”
**eyes rolling**
May 2nd, 2007 at 12:20 pmTeak,
I’ll take a shot at helping you out here.
You said – “I would like to have one of your “thinkers†explain to me why you are cheerleading the amnesty of millions of people who have broken our laws (many, many laws, not just immigration laws) in this country and committed crimes against Americans?â€
While I don’t know if many are “cheerleading†amnesty, I unfortunately have to ask the very real question…. If not amnesty, what would you propose we do with the estimated 12 million non-documented workers in this country? Jail them? Do you have any idea how expensive it will be to attempt to round them up and hold them? It would be well on the scale of the Iraq war has already cost us if not way more.
Too the second point of those breaking many laws not just immigration laws. If they have broken our other laws, they should be caught, tried, convicted, and deported. I don’t think many would argue that. There are several criminals of all nationalities in this country committing crime. Just because your undocumented, doesn’t make a crime any more heinous then if you are a citizen does it?
My answer to this issue works like this. (And believe I know it isn’t perfect.) I don’t think we have an illegal immigration problem in this country. I believe we have an illegal hiring problem. I’m guessing that the vast majority of those that come into our country illegally or otherwise are here to find work and a better life. We should not fault them for that. The problem is the employers who knowingly hire them to get around treating them the way they would have to treat American citizens. If we started levying huge fines against the employers of these undocumented workers, say $100,000 per offense. The jobs would dry up for those who are here illegally. Then there would be no incentive for them to come here. This problem has been created by many business owners who lust for the cheap labor force.
May 2nd, 2007 at 12:25 pmBob, I would venture to say that you must be somewhat uncomfortable around most people. I fully believe that a vast majority of US citizens speed, and speediing is breaking the law, thus making them criminals. And you seem to not be comfortable with degree’s of illeaglity so…
Also when we see the immigration marches we assume they are all illegals. Some, may not be in fact I would venture to guess that there are far more citizens and legal aliens iin thhe crowds than any of us care to admit
May 2nd, 2007 at 12:30 pmTeak,
The overwhelming majority of undocumented workers in this country, come from democracies. So I’m guessing they get it.
May 2nd, 2007 at 12:31 pmI know several legal immigrants at various stages in the long process of becoming citizens. They are all angry about those who have come here illegally but rarely tell anyone for fear of being branded a racist or worse. While illegal immigration is not murder it is also not just a speeding ticket. Most have also committed felony document fraud as well and some seem to consider many of our laws to be more of a guideline than a rule. I agree that the primary way of dealing with the problem is harsh penalties to employers who are not really much better than slavers in many cases.
May 2nd, 2007 at 12:42 pmTeak,
Can you propose a method to find the 12 million illegal immigrants which does not violate the 4th amendment rights of the rest of us?
Would you propose a warrantless search of every individual in the U.S.?
Or maybe armed checkpoints, where you would need “papers” to pass?
The point is, you can’t spot them. They come here to work, not to freeload. I know, I teach in a farm labor community. If you truly want to stop illegal immigration, you must stop it at its cause: employers who hire them. If they cannot get work here, they will go elsewhere.
Since Corporations can cross the border freely for economic gain, why not individual workers?
Oh, and the biggest source of “illegals”? Students and professionals who have overstayed their visas. We should have the INS round them up and ship them back to where they came from, right?
May 2nd, 2007 at 12:49 pmLet’s face it: if the economic tables were turned, and it suddenly became necessary for us to sneak into Mexico in order to survive, I’m sure the anti-immigration guys would explain why it was perfectly OK–even virtuous–to do so.
May 2nd, 2007 at 1:35 pmThe conservative anti-immigration crowd are a hoot:
Sending troops overseas to bomb, shoot, kill, and maim Iraqis, displacing 4 million of them? Perfectly ok, righteous, and Iraqis -those ingrates- should be thankful. Oh, and it’s not an invasion or occupation, it’s a “liberation”.
A bunch of poor peasants cross the border illegally, through the dessert, many dying in the process? OMG!! The sky is falling! *They* are a threat, are invading us, and are trying to take away *our* country! Hand me my rifle, Johnny, let’s go shoot them illegals!!
(Just so you know, all of you hispanophobes out there: Not all illegal aliens are Mexican, and not all cross the border. Almost half of all illegal aliens in the US are visa overstayers, and Mexicans make up about half of the total illegal population -which is the reason why building a fence serves no real purpose. Illegal immigrants also pay sales taxes, and income taxes. As someone pointed out, the problem is the illegal hiring by employers who keep the flow of undocumented workers coming into the US)
May 2nd, 2007 at 1:48 pmA bunch of poor peasants cross the border illegally, through the dessert, many dying in the process? OMG!! The sky is falling!
Comment by Gregor Samsa — May 2, 2007 @ 1:48 pm
12 MILLION (And that is LOW) most believe that there is twice that number. 12 MILLION Is about the entire Iraq population. So doing it your way….
Gregor Samsa insists that TWO WRONGS is fantastic. Invading Iraq for plunder (oil, resources) is just as wrong as invading the US for plunder (medicine, taxes, drugs, gangs….). Aliens that go through the process are welcomed by me. Aliens that break the law right off the bat trivialize all rule of law.
Bush is wrong and Gregor Samsa is also wrong!
May 2nd, 2007 at 4:18 pmComment by Saywho — May 2, 2007 @ 4:18 pm
Those 12 million people -or whatever the actual number turns out to be- didn’t all cross the border in one big wave. They’ve moved into the US over the years.
I didn’t insist that two wrongs make a right. I suggest you re-read my post.
Also, I didn’t even hint that immigration laws shouldn’t be enforced. That is your own interpretation of what I wrote.
May 2nd, 2007 at 5:19 pmHERE IS WHAT YOU SAID GREGOR SAMSA::
Sending troops overseas to bomb, shoot, kill, and maim Iraqis, displacing 4 million of them? Perfectly ok, righteous, and Iraqis -those ingrates- should be thankful. Oh, and it’s not an invasion or occupation, it’s a “liberationâ€.
A bunch of poor peasants cross the border illegally, through the dessert, many dying in the process? OMG!! The sky is falling! *They* are a threat, are invading us, and are trying to take away *our* country! Hand me my rifle, Johnny, let’s go shoot them illegals!!
I stand corrected you said that invading Iraq is wrong ( this is true by the way) then you suggested that Illegal Aliens are just “poor peasants” crossing the deserts of LA and boating into the Florida keys and that is no big deal so then you stereotyped the citizens of border states as some sort of alien hunters. Then you brought up some guy named Johnny and involved him with the alien hunting party……
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:09 pmSo are you a socialist or a communist?
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