Lou Dobbs: We Can Deport All Undocumented Immigrants ‘Because This Is The United States’
Lou Dobbs: We Can Deport All Undocumented Immigrants ‘Because This Is The United States’
In a 60 Minutes interview last night, CNN’s Lou Dobbs said that, while he has never explicitly called for the mass deportation of all undocumented immigrants living in the United States, he believes it can be done.
“When this president and open-borders, illegal-alien-amnesty advocates say, ‘You can’t deport them,’ my answer is, ‘You wanna bet?’ Because this is the United States,” Dobbs said.
Host Lesley Stahl followed up, “If you think it’s possible. How’s it possible?” Said Dobbs: “I think this country can do anything it sets its mind to.” Watch it:
To quell the rising clamor of those like Dobbs who suggest mass deportation, the Center for American Progress produced the first-ever estimate of the costs of a policy designed to deport all undocumented persons currently in the United States. The July 2005 study found it would cost at least $206 billion over a five-year period. The report concluded:
The cost assessment presented in this report hopefully illustrates the false allure of adopting a mass deportation policy as a response to the challenges threatening our immigration system. The costs of a massive deportation policy would not only be substantial, but in many ways, financially reckless. Implementing such a policy would seriously jeopardize our commitment to secure the homeland and pay for our commitments overseas, as well as threaten other vital national priorities.
The non-financial costs associated with mass deportation may be even more painful. The AP notes the “hidden side” of the government’s stepped-up efforts to track down and deport illegal immigrants: “When illegal-immigrant parents are swept up in raids on homes and workplaces, the children are sometimes left behind — a complication that underscores the difficulty in enforcing immigration laws against people who have put down roots and begun raising families in the U.S. More than 3.1 million American-born children have at least one parent who is an illegal immigrant.
Dobbs appears too willing to muster the national will to waste financial resources and permanently fracture American society.
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Maybe lou can volunteer some his multi-million dollar salary to fund the cause?
May 7th, 2007 at 10:58 amWhy is 60 Minutes interviewing Lou Dobbs?
Why do they think his opinion matters?
May 7th, 2007 at 10:59 amAre you people Mexicans or what? All the “humane” problems associated with illegals are of their own making. Nobody kidnapped them and forced them to come here. They don’t have to leave their children behind, they can take them to Mexico! What vacuous arguments.
May 7th, 2007 at 10:59 amI agree with Lou, if we wanted them out they would be out period. Their using fake papaers, track them down. This is a post 9/11 america we can’t have this right? The Boogie man is stil otu there just listen to the Bush administration.
May 7th, 2007 at 11:00 amdobbs seems so sane when he talks about most issues. But bring up immigration and he becomes a latter day father coughlin. Sometimes I want to reach through the screen and punch his effing lights out.
May 7th, 2007 at 11:01 ami watched that interview last nite…lou dobbs didnt mention and leslie stahl failed to point out that the REASON so many are willing to enter illegally is for the jobs…so blame the cheap labor republicans who dont want to pay prevailing wages or union wages…no one points this out, instead we hear the “they do jobs that americans dont want to do.” thats bull, except for the back breaking farm work, no one wants to do that for $4 an hour. but i see lots of construction crews etc who are obviously immigrants…dont tell me we have a shortage of carpenters electricians and laborers .. dont tell me americans dont want to do those jobs.
May 7th, 2007 at 11:06 amklyde-i concur: Lou can be downright entertaining, or downright assholishly annoying… It’s like he starts frothing at the mouth when he brings up illegal immigration…
May 7th, 2007 at 11:07 amit’d be easy to do it, just wait for another one of their lay-out-of-work rallies and BAM round em’ up!
grayhound is shure to pull in record profits!
May 7th, 2007 at 11:10 amDobbs rocks! Kick all the illegals out, it won’t cost the American tax payer much, we’ll confiscate their homes, cars, clothing, and everything else. Ship them back on a greyhound bus, empty handed just like they we’re when they came here.
May 7th, 2007 at 11:13 amThis Democrat agrees with Lou Dobbs. These people have broken our laws by ILLEGALLY entering our country. If they were Middle Easteners they would have been deported immediately. Every immigrant should have to go through the proper channels to become a citizen. We have let this go unchecked for far too long.
May 7th, 2007 at 11:14 amLets see, such a massive operation would require a great deal of order and efficiency… the involvement and use of a massive amount of government resources, not to mention a focus on this operation at the expense of others… who can we look to for an example of a mass deportation well done?
How many cattle cars will it take?
May 7th, 2007 at 11:14 amAmen #6. Dobbs and his corporate masters live off the backs of working people, regardless of color or visa status. Ready for food that isn’t super-cheap? Who’s going to clean up after your horses dipshit? Make the penalties on ALL employers hardsh enough that they’ll avoid hiring and creating a market.
ARGHRHHHGR
May 7th, 2007 at 11:14 amWhere was Lou Dobbs 500 years ago when us Native Americans needed him??
May 7th, 2007 at 11:14 amThere should be a law that a child born in the USA is not a citizen unless the mother is a citizen.
May 7th, 2007 at 11:15 amI’d like to see everybody deported except for the people on “reservations,” but that’s just me.
May 7th, 2007 at 11:16 amWhy does Lou Dobbs want to deport Hispanics? It was Muslims that attacked us on 9/11.
May 7th, 2007 at 11:18 amThe Muslims should be deported let the Mexicans stay!
We can do anything since we’re the US. Just like we can invade Iraq, overthrow their gov’t, take over their oil fields, bring peace and democracy to the grateful residents, and control the Middle East.
Oh, wait — that didn’t work out so well, even though we’re the US.
May 7th, 2007 at 11:18 amAre you people Mexicans or what? All the “humane†problems associated with illegals are of their own making. Nobody kidnapped them and forced them to come here. They don’t have to leave their children behind, they can take them to Mexico! What vacuous arguments.
Comment by teak — May 7, 2007 @ 10:59 am
1. Trafficking in persons does happen in the United States, so it’s not entirely correct to say that “nobody kidnapped them.”
2. U.S. farm subsidies allow the US to dump agricultural products on Couth and Central America, lowering the prices of local produce. This, combined with the boneheaded IMF “Washington Consensus” economic policies of the 1990s, is destroying jobs in their rural markets, and forcing migration to the cities and, when these fill with unemployed people, to the US for work.
If we really wanted to stop illegal immigration, we should attack the root causes, not the people who are struggling to support themselves and their families.
May 7th, 2007 at 11:19 amDEY TOOK ER JERBS!!1
May 7th, 2007 at 11:20 amThe US had there chance on Tuesday to arrest all these Illegal and deport them. The children that are born here of Illegals need to go with their parents back to their country. Any child that is born of illegals in the US should not be American Citizens.
May 7th, 2007 at 11:22 amYet another right-wing conviction based on myth and fevered imagination.
May 7th, 2007 at 11:22 amAll one ever hears from the ‘Right’ is that there are 10-12 million illegal immigrants and that this is a huge problem.
I hear no distinction between migrant illegals and resident illegals or what their proportions might be.
There has never been any concerted strategic effort on the part of the DOJ/INS to address the fact that illegals are attracted to the US precisely because they ARE employed. Just as it makes sense to go after drug dealers it makes sense to go after employers of illegals.
Typically the ‘Right’s solution to every problem is to work themselves up into hysteria and then lash out with a big stick.
We can do anything since we’re the US. Just like we can invade Iraq, overthrow their gov’t, take over their oil fields, bring peace and democracy to the grateful residents, and control the Middle East.
Oh, wait — that didn’t work out so well, even though we’re the US.
Comment by Lisa
I thought all conservatives hated big government, and yet they propose massive projects that require the full weight of government to achieve — and this would be the same government that conservatives have always argued were massively incompetent.
Maybe this is a job for Halliburton. A no-bid contract to engineer the evacuation of all undocumented aliens in the US. Lord knows the contractors in Iraq have done a bangup job.
May 7th, 2007 at 11:22 amOnce again, the Liberal Great White Guilt.
Sorry, I am a Latino and as a Latino I say to my fellow latinos that come here illegally. If you want the benefits of this great nation come legally, other wise, pay the price.
It is illegals who put their children in danger for coming here illegaly. It is ridiculous for the AP or any other stupid news organization to tell us the “hidden consequences” of deporting illegals since then we shouldn’t punish any parent for the crimes they commit because at the end it is the kids that end up paying for the crimes of the parent.
should we not punish murderers who have children? should we not punish thieves who have children? because the children would be left behind?
of course they should be punish. If you come to the USA illegaly and you are caught, you need to pay for your crime, you should have thought about the consequences to your family before you decided to break the law.
May 7th, 2007 at 11:22 amLou. Start advocating for mandatory life in prison sentences for the officers of all companies caught significantly exploiting undocumented immigrants. Such a plan would greatly reduce the money available for undocumented immigrants and it would get rid of the scum of our society at the same time!
May 7th, 2007 at 11:23 am#14 and if the father is a citizen? screw him I guess.
May 7th, 2007 at 11:24 amDang-it responded to a troll. Broke my own rule sorry about that
Who’s going to make your bed and pick your tomatoes, Lou?
May 7th, 2007 at 11:26 amPersonally, I’m tired of being at the gym every day, and while I’m on the treadmill, Dobbs comes on. I swear, every damn day, he harps on the immigration thing. Yes, it’s a problem, Lou. Mass deportation isn’t the answer.
I’m ashamed to admit I turn the little listening device to the TV with Judge Judy on instead. It’s mindless entertainment that is good while I’m running.
May 7th, 2007 at 11:26 amThe question is, what is the monetary price of illegals staying the USA?
how about hospitals having to close because illegals tend not to pay their medical bills and there is no way for illegals to be tract down….how much has this cause the American economy.
how about schools having to close because their are over crowded and under fund because illegals don’t pay their dues into the tax system to support public schools….
how about illegals taking jobs that Americans would have taken.
How about illegal Mexicans sending well over half of their earnings to Mexico and not going back into the American economy.
For those that don’t know, Mexicans in the USA send so much money back to their families and friends in Mexico that the Mexican government, when doing the government budget put these countless billions into the budget. It is either the second or third largest way for Mexico to make money. Many Mexicans that are here legally send money back to Mexico, but most if not all illegals that are here send their dollars back to Mexico.
It is great that the Center for American Progress has done this current study, but why didn’t they bother to do a study showing the burden that illegals put on the American economy.
May 7th, 2007 at 11:27 amhe’s probably right. whether or not its a good idea is a seperate discussion.
May 7th, 2007 at 11:28 amDeportation is like ethnic cleansing. That’s no good. But there’s a way to solve the problem without harrassing people based on how they look. It’s really very simple:
INS sets up a crime tip line and makes a lot of public service announcements promoting it. Then, they make a couple of high-profile arrests of fat cat CEOs denying citizens jobs to profit off the slave labor of illegal immigrants. Swift trial and conviction should yield the ten-year sentence already codified by statute.
If we had the balls to do what law already provides, the need to build a fence would vaporize as well, because it would only serve to hinder the mass migration south. But instead, the people profiting from this slave labor use the public’s xenophobia for their defense, distracting the attention of the typical American racist dimwit to the symptom instead of the problem with the ease of peddling death and torture of a bunch of “rag-heads.”
But the symptom, dear dimwit America, is not solvable. If the problem is solved, the symptom goes away. So don’t take your eye off the ball, dimwit America. I know it’s hard for you to rely on your intelligence rather than your instinct to hate people you don’t know, but try to pry yourselves loose from your animal heritage for just this one time and we might have a chance solving this problem.
May 7th, 2007 at 11:28 amThis liberal agrees with Dobbs. Married to a Mexican, he puts forth his position on illegal immigration on sound principles.
First, what are immigration laws for if millions of foreigners (Mexican or otherwise) and their employers can just ignore them. We should change the law if it’s ok to allow millions in who will work for dollars an hour, under the table, under the minimum wage laws.
Second, why is Wal Mart, and every other major corporation employing these people – again, in violation of minimum wage laws – we all know why, so they don’t have to pay into the society we all live in; that same society that has provided them with their core wealth. It’s wrong.
Dobbs doesn’t have anything against immigrants. He is against the abuse of them – and us, by corporations who could care less about minimum wage laws designed to protect our middle class.
May 7th, 2007 at 11:29 amLou Dobbs seems to have more colors to him than a chameleon. One moment he is saying things that I cant believe are coming from Lou Dobbs’ mouth (about Iraqnam) and then the next he’s saying things like this that I cant believe are coming out of the mouth of anyone with an IQ greater than a house fly.
May 7th, 2007 at 11:30 amAny phobia will disable all rational thought and Lou Dobbs suffers from xenophobia.
It is practically, physically, and morally impossible to deport all illegal immigrants and, in a whole lot of cases, it would be a violation of their basic human rights. Yes, unfair as it sounds, even illegal immigrants have human rights. Every case must undergo due process and the logistics of that exercise simply boggle the mind.
Illegal immigrants are a burden to any society and no country can bear the burden of a continuous “surge” of illegal immigrants but only saner minds, dispassionate third parties, can solve this problem. With just the extremist nuts from both sides hogging the megaphone, reason is not about to come to this subject anytime soon.
May 7th, 2007 at 11:31 amIllegal immigrants from Mexico and Central America are only 56% of the total, the rest are from China, Asia, Europe and oddly enough even some Canadians who all overstay their visa’s, work for cash, fall in love and have a kid. None of the above have committed a terrorist act against the united states and there is a valid economic argument for them being here, because they absolutely do do jobs that you can’t get a ipod carrying 19 year old to do.
All of the 9/11 kami kaze pilots were here legally.
Does anybody else see an intended and calculated distraction from the real problem?
May 7th, 2007 at 11:32 am………………
I know! I know!
Here’s what we do, Lou:
There’s gotta be a whole bunch of whackos in that 28% that still love Duhhbya – let’s get ‘em together and give ‘em tattoo guns, unlimited police power and some MAC 10s (for them unruly border-violators) and turn ‘em loose.
Ya see, we’ll have ‘em tattoo “MEXICAN” in 1-inch letters on the foreheads of all the suspected border-violators. That way, EVERYONE will be able to recognize ‘em and they won’t be able to sneak back after their one-way bus trip.
That way, we won’t be wasting that $23 billion, right?
………….
May 7th, 2007 at 11:34 amWe are not going to solve the problem by deporting them all, it just isn’t possible. And if we did, it would damage us economically since most, besides breaking the law to get here, do obey the laws, work hard and pay taxes on top of that.
If they want to get here, fine, make it easier for them to do so legally. That way they will have to be payed minimum wage, so they cannot be blamed for lowering wages and they won’t have to risk working in slave like conditions (which are quite prevalent in the south I hear).
Also this would greatly reduce instances of ID theft since they will not have to acquire other peoples identities to get a job.
And for those of you who think all these brown people should be kept out, what about all the Cubans living in Florida who cam here illegally? If you support that then maybe we should have a similar form of amnesty for those who cross through Mexico (barring illegal drug trafficking)….
By the way, the migration that we are seeing that we call ‘illegal’ is much older than our country. It was occurring even before Columbus decided to discover America accidentally. And, I think it will continue even after our country is gone. This migration is more permanent than any wall we could ever build.
May 7th, 2007 at 11:34 amhow about hospitals having to close because illegals tend not to pay their medical bills and there is no way for illegals to be tract down….how much has this cause the American economy.
Comment by valiantthehater — May 7, 2007 @ 11:27 am
I know it’s trivial to go after spelling and grammatical errors, but these are errors that even my 10 year old would make! Valiant, you’re showing what statistical analysis can easily reveal – the people that watch Fox news and vote Republican tend to have lower IQs than those that don’t.
May 7th, 2007 at 11:34 amSounds good to me.
It is an undisputed fact that the vast majority of illegals are not “undocumented,” but rather use stolen identities. Unless your identity has never been stolen, you have no idea of horrible this crime affects you personally.
May 7th, 2007 at 11:35 amUnless the goal is deport only those with brown skin, everyone should get used to the idea of a National ID which must be produced on demand at checkpoints so as to weed out the illegal Europeans as well. If you don’t mind being asked to produce your ID by armed agents of Homeland Security on a routine basis, then the Lou Dobbs’s of the world are for you. Oh, you left your ID card at home? Tough shit, it’s off to the gulag for you! No you can’t make a phone call or talk to an attorney.
May 7th, 2007 at 11:35 amI thought all conservatives hated big government
They do. We haven’t had a conservative in the White House since buchanon quit as nixon’s speech writer. The rethug administrations have been a series of corportist and proto facist allied with christianist all of whom are bent on undermining the constitution and the rule of law.
May 7th, 2007 at 11:37 am#34
You claim that all the 9/11 terrorists were here legally. You are flat out WRONG. Their visas had expired or were obtained under false premises. Thus they entered this country, or remained in this country, illegally.
The fact is, if we had stronger immigration enforcement laws, this may not have been a problem in the first place. This is the real problem. Open borders are not the solution.
May 7th, 2007 at 11:38 amWhat America needs to do is enforce the laws that are already in our books AND heavily fine and punish the freaking corporations that hire illegals. You do this two things and you will see how you take control of the illegal immigration problem.
Immigration is great for the USA, but that is LEGAL immigration. Once again as a Latino I say to my fellow Latinos who come here illegaly, to stop breaking the law and stop jumping ahead of those that are doing things legally.
May 7th, 2007 at 11:39 amLou Dobbs entire purpose is to jump start the hatred of immigrants and he’ll make up any old shit to make that happen.
Last night he pulled some figures out of his ass and he got called on it. He refused to provide any source info (his ass) and stated that because he said it, IT MUST BE TRUE.
These people are not driven here by high wages but have been driven out of their own country because we are destroying the livelyhood of their farmers and their environment by the trade policies enacted between the US and Mexico.
George Bush works for the corporados.
They don’t want an end to illegal entry and neither does he. They want cheap labor to keep down American wages as well. At the same time they would like to feed Bush’s racist base something to jump on the old flatbed and yell about.
With only the “show” arrests made so far at a few places there have been disasterous results for the local communities and those family memebers which remained.
If they wanted to stop illegal immigration they would fine the corporations that hire illegal immigrants. They often have offices across the border activly recruting and hiring them even before they arrive.
That way no wall is needed.
That way your taxes don’t have to pay for a never ending shuttle service across the border.
That way local communities are not thrown into chaos and made to pay for it.
That way you collect taxes in the form of fines from those Corporations that want to keep us all poor.
That way the racists can get back to buggering each other between gay bashings and other stuff i’m guessing racists do.
Lou’s a lying sack of crap.
May 7th, 2007 at 11:39 amWell, my visa has expired two years ago, so that would make me an ‘illegal alien’ according to the rules.
May 7th, 2007 at 11:40 amI tried to renew my visa 4 times, three times the US Immigration lost my case (not sure how is this possible) and the 4th time I was told I had applied too late? What happened to the three times I applied, once again I am not sure.
I have paid $190,000 in taxes to the US Govt over 8 years, and continue to pay taxes.
There is a lot of emphasis on Mexicans, I understand, because they keep coming. I am from Europe work in the Biotech industry, and a friend of mine, a doctor just became illegal even though the guy performs 2 surgeries daily. He too, has applied for permanent documents (just like me) and hasn’t heard back in 7 years.
I feel no resentment towards US Immigration, simply because when I called them, a US Imm. Officer apologized and told me to get married to an American, that’s the only way I can get a document, as of this moment.
You always have to appreciate honesty.
how about hospitals having to close because illegals tend not to pay their medical bills and there is no way for illegals to be tract down….how much has this cause the American economy.
Comment by valiantthehater — May 7, 2007 @ 11:27 am
I hate to be trivial about spelling and grammar. But my 10 year old wouldn’t make these types of mistakes! It only goes to show you what statistical analysis can easily reveal – those that watch Fox News and vote Republican tend to have lower IQs than those who don’t.
May 7th, 2007 at 11:42 amComment by valiantthehater — May 7, 2007 @ 11:27 am
Have you got an example of an actual school district or hospital that has had to close as a result of abuse by illegal immigrants from Mexico?? I’m dying to see that.
Taxes? If an illegal anything is getting paid cash does that also mean that the employer is also getting an advantage by not paying benefits and having 2 sets of books?
And when an illegal anything buys something from his/her half of the extraordinary amount of money that they are making are they not paying sales tax and also adding to the economy?
There is not one factual study (other than rants) that demonstrates that illegal anythings are straining our health care services and are even abusing it. Unless of course you are referring to a child that was born here in the united states and now enjoys citizenship and needs health care. Does that mean that you have a problem with taking care of children? Sick children?
May 7th, 2007 at 11:42 amWE DON’T HAVE AN ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION PROBLEM!!!!
We have an illegal empolyment problem!!! If we start enforcing the employement regulations, and jack up the penalties for knowingly hiring undocumented workers, the jobs would dry up and you would effectively kill the motivation to come here illegally.
May 7th, 2007 at 11:42 amYou know, the Liberals in this country love to claim that they love the law and that they are tired of Republicans or conservatives breaking the law….
A question to Liberals…..many if not most illegals obtain jobs at Wal-Mart, Target, and other corporations by STEALING the identity of Americans. They steal their Social Security numbers, name, etc, etc.
why are Liberals so worried when they think Republicans and Conservatives break the law, but in this instance, they could careless that illegals are breaking the law, why?
Identity theft is a huge problem in the USA. Why aren’t Liberals demanding that illegals stop breaking the law? oh wait because they want illegals to see Democratis and Liberals as saviors and then have them vote for Democrats.
I know plenty of illegals that voted for Durbin, Obama and other Democrats. and this is the reason why Democreats and Liberals don’t want to do anything about the illegal immigration.
May 7th, 2007 at 11:43 amWhy should our borders be wide open to whomever wants to cross them for whatever reason they want? I am a democrat, but also a realist and I do not see how having tons of illegal “immigrants” crossing our borders helps us out. It also is a huge offense to those immigrants who are entering this country LEGALLY. Just because I am a liberal does not mean I endorse breaking our laws.
May 7th, 2007 at 11:44 amgnois,
Yes, there are plenty of hospitals in California that have closed down do to illegals not paying their bills.
Here in Chicago the illegal problem is so terrible that our schools are over crowded and children under taught. Our school system is more worried about keeping these illegals save from the law (ironic enough) that they don’t report the over crowdness.
furthermore, while many illegals do get paid cash, most of them don’t get paid cash. Most of them stole an American’s identity and use it as their own.
as for adding to the american economy….no way, they send back their money to Mexico or their country of origin and only spend enough to survive here.
it is obvious that you have never lived in a community where a huge part of it is full of illegals.
May 7th, 2007 at 11:47 amFools! Don’t you know there’s an international hispanic conspiracy to take control of America and force all Americans to speak Spanish and eat chili & refried beans? Read the Protocols of the Elders of Chihauhua. Arm yourselves with knowledge.
America is WASP because of illegal immigration. That’s how America took New England, Ohio, Texas, California, and Hawaii. If we don’t deport the hispanics now, they’ll undo everything we’ve cheated for.
May 7th, 2007 at 11:49 amWE DON’T HAVE AN ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION PROBLEM!!!!
We have an illegal empolyment problem!!! If we start enforcing the employement regulations, and jack up the penalties for knowingly hiring undocumented workers, the jobs would dry up and you would effectively kill the motivation to come here illegally.
Comment by Crump’s Brother — May 7, 2007 @ 11:42 am
Sorry Crump, we have both problems, and the bigger problem is the illegal immigration.
Many corporations have no idea that they are hiring an illegal since guess what, the illegal will show the company legal documents that they stole from someone else.
How is the corporation suppose to know you are illegal if the identity you present, which is not yours, is legal? please explain.
do you not care that illegals steal the identity of thousands if not millions of Americans and use it as their own? that these illegals destroy the credit rating of millions of Americans?
I thought you liberals were about the law….
May 7th, 2007 at 11:49 amOpen borders are not the solution.
Comment by JT — May 7, 2007 @ 11:38 am
But it may be the only solution when it comes to Mexico and Canada. There is simply to much border to police and if you build a 10′ wall someone will build a 12′ ladder. If you are a bordering country, much the same as say Europe, then you have a reciprocal agreement between all three countries where you can work in all three and the cost of health care for example is on your home country.
Got a problem with taxation and tax avoidance change to a goods and services tax and tax base and everyone is taxed on consumption. It’s fair and spreads the tax base on an equitable basis.
May 7th, 2007 at 11:52 amValianttheVenushater, any citations to back up your racist drivel? You don’t have anything. It’s all fearmongering.
May 7th, 2007 at 11:53 amBravo Mr. Dobbs! I couldn’t agree more! When they were all out waving their Mexican flags in LA the cops should have just marched them down the I-5 to Tijuana and been done with them.
May 7th, 2007 at 11:54 amThe illegal immigration issue sounds so much like the war on drugs, both being “supply-side” enforcement orientated with only token consideration of the “consumption side” or consideration of the underlying causes of the supply or consumption. There is no easy path into the problem, or out. Trying any easy solution will only add to the problem. We need politicians who think, use research, and are willing to look for nuanced and complicated solutions that are not flashy, made for TV sound bites.
May 7th, 2007 at 11:55 amThere more than 12m hispanics here, not because they are needed, but because they work cheap. There are many areas of CA that indistinguishable from Mexico. No Safeways or Albertsons; the markets are the same down to the paint, so the restaurants and bars. In Oakland’s Fruitvale and SF’s Mission, one find vendors with stuffed toys stacked high atop, sidewalk food stands and food carts on the sidewalk. Many of these residents speak no english. Not as large as the Chinese, perhaps, (no long line of container ships yet) but it’s a huge market.
Terrible thing to do, but I must: Was it right, and if so whose, to cede CA to the Hispanic and Chinese immigrants? Fine people, the both, but make no mistake, CA now belongs to these two groups. If surveyed, would the ethnic Chinese living in SF say no mas Chinese immigrants? The Latino?
May 7th, 2007 at 11:56 amvaliantthehater,
I said “knowingly hire”. I am all for helping employers get the tools they need, but in turn must do there due diligence when hiring. If they (Wal-Mart etc.) were to understand that $100,000 fine would be handed down for everytime they knowingly hired an undocumented worker, or didn’t go through the due diligence to find out, then they would quit hiring them.
May 7th, 2007 at 11:57 amI’m sorry. But this identiy theft problem doesn’t wash, ValianttheVenushater. WalMart knew perfectly well it had hired over 4000 illegal immigrants. There was no question of fake papers. It doesn’t take too much effort to confirm an identity –it’s like doing a background check when selling a gun. Honestly, when two or three people show up using the same social security number, I think it makes it easier to decide someone’s not legit.
Please cite your sources.
May 7th, 2007 at 11:59 amComment by valiantthehater — May 7, 2007 @ 11:47 am
I’d suggest that the California problem had as much to do with no one being able to pay their bill then just an illegal. I lived in Orange County when it was just oranges and not an endless sprawl of suburban mini-mansions. The Irvine Company was built on the backs of immigrant labor. I watched those jobs disappeared as it became painfully obvious to the Company that their dirt was worth a whole bunch more to them as residential property than orange crops.
Chicago’s education system is not to be blamed on illegals. It is systemic of all dying a decadent metro areas and the every child left behind system. Look around you. The CBD’s in most midwestern states died a slow death and there is no money to support school systems. It doesn’t surprise me that school systems and communities are doing their best to protect individuals because that’s all they have.
The rest have moved to the suburbs.
May 7th, 2007 at 12:01 pmValianttheVenushater,
May 7th, 2007 at 12:02 pmYou are not Latino you liar! If you were, you would understand it’s Corporations that are raping Latin American resources that forces people to come here.
America’s greed is responsible!
I thought you liberals were about the law….
Comment by valiantthehater — May 7, 2007 @ 11:49 am
Yes, but then we learnt about signing statements. Torture used to be illegal before it was made legal and then illegal again before being made legal again by signing statements. The “law” when it’s applied selectively, in a biased manner, and can also mean different things at different times of the day, ceases to have any meaning. Just like the term “terrorism”. Does that term have any meaning? Application of a law in an atmosphere of blatant double standards is impossible and meaningless.
All Republicans must be flushed down the toilet somewhere before the “law” regains any meaningful meaning.
May 7th, 2007 at 12:04 pmValianttheVenushater, any citations to back up your racist drivel? You don’t have anything. It’s all fearmongering.
Comment by david — May 7, 2007 @ 11:53 am
racist drivel? care to explain how anything I said was racist? or do you just call anyone you disagree with a racist?
typical of the left, use insults to shame people into silence.
and do tell, how can I be racist against my own people……tick, tock, tick, tock, tick, tock….
May 7th, 2007 at 12:04 pmI favor a segmented approach when dealing with dealing with Illegal Immigrants. First, deport the criminals. Second, favor only those illegal workers (i.e. farm labor, etc.) who are not any major detriment to our economy. We have to think of cost vs. savings. We can save a few cents on some produce but if these same laborers overuse the hospital, it drives up the cost for your average Joe to go there. Not much savings afterall.
Also, Identity theft is a HUGE problem with illegal immigrants. I think we have reason to worry. Liberals are losing at the issue of illegal immigration because they refuse to acknowledge its creeping downfalls. They’re looking for their own kind of cheap labor: votes.
May 7th, 2007 at 12:04 pmCrump’s Brother @ 45
Bwahahaha. Oh good one. Go after corporate criminals? In the US? Bwahahahaha. Wait were you serious?
May 7th, 2007 at 12:05 pmPeople are going to move. People have moved from Asia to America via land bridges and boats and airplanes. People have moved from Europe to America via boats and airplanes. People have moved in response to migrating animal populations and they have moved in response to unsustainable environmental conditions (see Chaco Canyon). People have moved in response to wars and famine (of all sorts) and economic conditions.
It is the height of foolishness, arrogance and shortsightedness to think that the United States is going to stop people from moving to this country (and with the coming of more frequent coastal flooding, from moving within this country). The U.S. needs to find ways to accommodate such people legally, with minimal environmental, economic, and cultural disruption. Also, among the reasons to continue well-managed foreign aid and encourage peaceful foreign government is so that people who live there won’t want to move, or, more positively, will want to stay.
It’s also important for governments here in the U.S. to prepare intelligent and caring responses to negative (neither good nor bad) emotions that many U.S. citizens feel regarding immigration. No matter their basis in fact, their feelings are real and should not be ignored (even if they can’t always be alleviated).
May 7th, 2007 at 12:06 pmken melvin, what’s with the hatred of the Chinese? I suppose you think the Japanese-American internment during WWII was just. Little historical fact, it was WASPs coming from the Eastern seaboard who took Calfornia away from Mexico. Indeed, you might think CA, New Mexico, Arizona, and Texas are easily defined as WASP, but Hispanics have been living on either side of this imaginary border for 250 years. The law should reflect reality and not racist ideology.
May 7th, 2007 at 12:06 pmValianttheVenushater,
You are not Latino you liar! If you were, you would understand it’s Corporations that are raping Latin American resources that forces people to come here.
America’s greed is responsible!
Comment by Juan C — May 7, 2007 @ 12:02 pm
No soy Latino por que tu lo dices? por favor hombre! I am probably more Latino than you will ever dream to be.
that I am not a communist Latino like you is something else.
American greed is not responsible for illegals, please! Illegals chosing!, get it, chosing to come into the USA illegaly is the problem.
but call me a liar all you want, it won’t change the fact que soy Latino.
May 7th, 2007 at 12:07 pmken melvin, what’s with the hatred of the Chinese? I suppose you think the Japanese-American internment during WWII was just. Little historical fact, it was WASPs coming from the Eastern seaboard who took Calfornia away from Mexico. Indeed, you might think CA, New Mexico, Arizona, and Texas are easily defined as WASP, but Hispanics have been living on either side of this imaginary border for 250 years. The law should reflect reality and not racist ideology.
Comment by david — May 7, 2007 @ 12:06 pm
WRONG!!! it was the Mexican government selling all of the Southwest to the USA that gave the USA control of the Southwest.
History not your forte, eh?
May 7th, 2007 at 12:09 pmI am sick of the depressed wages and crime that have come along with the illegals. I work at construction sites and 10 years ago all the workers were young people from the area. Now the only people that speak english on the sites are the managers and supervisors. These were good paying jobs that are now low paying. We had a raid here just last night with 23 arrested for drug trafficing, all hispanic. The murder rate has sky rocketed because of drug wars. I’m sick of it. No work permit, no green card, go home.
May 7th, 2007 at 12:10 pmWith that price tage, we can call it the “War on Illegal Immigration”!!! Yaaay, another war on an abstract concept!!!! Yaaaay!!!!
May 7th, 2007 at 12:11 pmVery simple… enforce the verification of I-9… when people don’t have the ability to work they will leave voluntarily… wouldn’t you if you couldn’t work… don’t make this about racism… make this about economics…
May 7th, 2007 at 12:11 pmI thought you liberals were about the law….
Comment by valiantthehater — May 7, 2007 @ 11:49 am
Yes, but then we learnt about signing statements. Torture used to be illegal before it was made legal and then illegal again before being made legal again by signing statements. The “law†when it’s applied selectively, in a biased manner, and can also mean different things at different times of the day, ceases to have any meaning. Just like the term “terrorismâ€. Does that term have any meaning? Application of a law in an atmosphere of blatant double standards is impossible and meaningless.
All Republicans must be flushed down the toilet somewhere before the “law†regains any meaningful meaning.
Comment by Abby — May 7, 2007 @ 12:04 pm
wait, you mean to say that illegals were only breaking the law under the Bush administration? so no one entered illegaly the USA while Clinton was in power, eh? wow!
not to mention that your rant and rave against the Republican is laughable at best.
sorry kid, Liberals claim to love the law, but it is obvious that LIberals only care about the law when they believe that a Republican or Conservative broke it.
Liberals could careless about the law when the law stands on their way to achieve Liberal causes.
The only reason that so many Democrats are for illegal immigration is because they know illegals vote, yes, VOTE for Democrats. It happens here in Chicago, California, New York, etc, etc…..Here in Chicago even Legal residents with a green card were being told to vote.
May 7th, 2007 at 12:12 pmvaliantthehater,
May 7th, 2007 at 12:13 pmYou’re a Latino who sides with the Anglo power structure! You are a traitor!
Either way our Ilsamic allies are killing you and your Anglo masters by the dozens in Iraq!
Why couldn’t we spend 200 Billion on an assimilation program run thru the State Department? Let’s look at this as a foreign policy issue and give the states, impacted by the effects of making these people all vigilant tax paying americans, the proper resources. Latin America and Canada first and then every country that we give foreign aid to can trade in aid in the form of immigration compensation .This massive deportation thing is a pipe dream. Why not just re-write the 14th amendment?It was originally set up for the newly free slaves, not immigrants willing to risk their lives to get here and have a baby at Parkland.Again I think if we looked at this like a foreign policy issue we’d get over the emotional argument and make everyone a taxpayer.
May 7th, 2007 at 12:13 pmUndocumented? Its easier for some of these people to get fake documentation then it was to get my daughter a passport to go on vacation. I “jokingly” said “I should have went to the Mexicans to get a passport for her, I would have gotten it faster and it would have been cheaper”
I can guarantee you there are hundreds of thousands of illegals working with fake documentation. And the corporations and companies that hire them take it, as long as they have documentation stating they are legal to work. Why? Think about it, if they are illegal with illegal documentation and are hurt at work, are they going to report it as a workmans comp case? probably not.
Am I a little bitter? yes. Why? because as a legal born American citizen I was passed up for a promotion at a company that has mostly Hispanics employed there. Why? Because I dont speak Spanish.
May 7th, 2007 at 12:14 pmValianttheVenushater, you seem to change race from thread to thread. I’m sure you’re a troll using a dramatic persona. What’s happened to your syntax? Your falling out of character.
And where’s the proof that identity theft is an immigration problem. It’s organized crime that’s behind it. And it’s not about getting jobs with fake papers, it’s about stealing money from banks. You have no citations.
And that was my request. Where’s your citations? Your proof? You’re a Quisling if you claim to be Hispanic. You’d sell your own grandmother to score points with Rove.
May 7th, 2007 at 12:14 pmI’m a flaming liberal, and I agree with Dobbs – but for different reasons:
1. Illegal entry into our country must not be rewarded.
2. History (even our own) shows that the unregulated influx of non-citizens (especially when a language barrier exists, see below) into any political system is one of the signs that the political system is in decline (these folks don’t want citizenship, they want jobs – historically, they wanted bounty. In our case, jobs are the bounty).
3. The language barrier. This is not an ignorant, “Our language is better than yours” argument. If I could choose my language, it’d be French, because of the rich history of liberal philosophy and thought originally expressed in that language, and because it sounds beautiful (as opposed to, say, German). This about our Constitution and the ability to accurately communicate an idea in any two languages. It’s impossible. Can’t be done. We already argue over exactly what it is that our Constiutution says, semantics and nuance (French!) being what they are. Try litigating a Constitutional issue before the SCOTUS and insisting, as a Citizen, on your right to do so in Spanish (or any other language).
Bottom line: Other than those allowed into the US for humanitarian reasons (and there are millions who would legally qualify under those conditions), proficiency in English and functional literacy (in English) should be required for anyone wishing to immigrate and/or apply for citizenship. The oath of citizenship should only be given in English.
Sounds harsh, but it’s not unfair.
4. Everybody bitches about Corporate Greed in the US today, but the rich wouldn’t be leaving the vast majority of Americans in the economic dust if they had to buy goods and services at the prevailing American wage. Want me to dig ditches? Fine. I’m an American, so I’ll have to charge you $60,000 a year, no benefits, or $40,000, full benefits. Why? Here you go: food, clothing, energy transportation, healthcare. These are the things that the illegals scrimp on (you don’t – at least nowadays – see 20 unrelated Americans sharing a suburban single family home). Ask yourself: Who benefits from illegal immigration? And that’s just for starters. if you want a college degree, I’ll have to charge you $250,000 a year.
Where would American business get the kind of money I’m talking about? From the bloated saleries of the CEOs.
5. Government is by permission of the governed. Not just here. Everywhere. Those coming here illegally have chosen the path of least resistance. They have abrogated their responsibility to their own countries – why would anyone think they’d make good citizens here?
As I sat at a red light across from the building I work in, I noticed the extremely diverse mix of people entering the building to begin their work days. Indians, hispanics, anglos, blacks (some Africans, some Americans), asians, and more. I love America, and I love the dynamic and diverse population that immigration has always provided – it might be our greatest strength. I believe in the American Dream.
Illegal immigration is not the way to go. It’s dangerous.
May 7th, 2007 at 12:15 pmWhat! How can you claim to be a fake Hispanic, ValianttheVenushater, and be completely ignorant of the Mexican-American War and the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo. Maybe you should tatoo Santa Anna to your chest. History is definitely NOT your forte. You fraud.
May 7th, 2007 at 12:18 pmJuan C. was name jacked at #72
May 7th, 2007 at 12:18 pmValiant you aint.
You sure are a BUSH Republican though.
Never let reality intrude into your stupid arguements.
Stay the dumb ass course. Then repeat.
There is a problem with Illegal immigrants and George Bush likes it that way.
Just like he likes outsourcing American jobs and paying the corportations to take those jobs out of the country.
And in the very same way Bush is now trying to increase the number of legal immigrants that can enter with technical skills.
We have such a terrible shortage of Americans with technical skills, RIGHT?
Bush is all about a global economy.
That means an even playing field between all workers.
The plan is not to bring other workers up to American wages and standards.
It’s to bring American workers to third world wages and standards.
Your ok with that as long as you can blame it on a mexican farmer.
May 7th, 2007 at 12:19 pmvaliantthehater,
You’re a Latino who sides with the Anglo power structure! You are a traitor!
Either way our Ilsamic allies are killing you and your Anglo masters by the dozens in Iraq!
Comment by Juan C — May 7, 2007 @ 12:13 pm
Juanito, so I take it you don’t live in the USA, right?
My Anglo masters? wow…and who is your master, the ridiculous and laughable Communist Manifesto?
do you know how ridiculous your post above reads?
and I am a traitor? typical of the communists who love to try to get people they disagree with to agree with them through same.
No my friend, if you are going to speak about traitors look in the mirror. You betray us Latinos every time you side with the communist pigs, every time you claim that the problem is not with us Latinos, but rather with the “Anglo masters”.
honestly Juan is hard to take you seriously when you post ridiculous stuff like the post above.
May 7th, 2007 at 12:20 pmsmafdy,
May 7th, 2007 at 12:21 pmYou are racist! It’s the US’s Imperialistic economic policies that cause the migrations here!
Valiant,
May 7th, 2007 at 12:22 pmI bet you some Rightwing Cuban from Maimi. You’re a Gusano!
It is also very sad, Juan, that you are happy that Islamo-terrorists are killing Americans in Iraq
You are the face of a true Liberal. Happy that Americans are dying in a war.
how truly sad for you, how truly sad for Liberals.
you are quite disgusting mi amigo. El Che (un pedazo de mierda), the murderours and rapist pig would have been happy having you amongst his murderous, rapist, disgusting soldiers.
May 7th, 2007 at 12:22 pmJuan C. is exactly what’s wrong with our country. Stereotyping Latino immigrants as being only fascist-planning haters, that’s the America that radical dems, including Juan, want to see.
You haven’t contributed anything meaningful to this conversation, Juan, so please exit the commentary section.
May 7th, 2007 at 12:23 pmThey must go! They have no Constructional protections in this nation unless they enter in full compliance of the law! Overstaying your visa is AGAINST THE LAW. Identity theft is AGAINST THE LAW. Tax evasion is AGAINST THE LAW. Smuggling is AGAINST THE LAW. Violating any immigration law is AGAINST THE LAW. Get the picture??
ALL ILLEGIAL ALIENS not RACIAL ALIENS must go home!
May 7th, 2007 at 12:23 pmValiant,
May 7th, 2007 at 12:24 pmYou are a race traitor siding with a Whiteman against your people! How do you live with yourself? It’s like a Muslim who doesn’t support Al-Qaeda or Hamas! Traitors all you.
You are the lowest form!
mparker,
are you stupid, or do you just play one? since when did I defend Bush on the illegal immigration problem? please put up post number and sentence.
Bush along with all Democratic Party politicians and most of its members are part of the illegal immigration problem.
Bush along with the Democratic and Republican party have done NOTHING to stop the illegal immigration problem.
get a clue and an education while you are at it.
and I am sorry that you are jelouse that I am a Latino and you are not. NOt my fault you were born an idiot. Talk to the big guy upstairs. :)
May 7th, 2007 at 12:25 pmsmafdy,
You are racist! It’s the US’s Imperialistic economic policies that cause the migrations here!
Comment by Juan C — May 7, 2007 @ 12:21 pm
Migration is done by some animals and birds! What you are calling a MIGATION in REALITY is TRESSPASSING!
May 7th, 2007 at 12:25 pmValiant,
May 7th, 2007 at 12:26 pmChe is loved and admired by Millions around the world. Your hero Bush is hated. Che was a courageous lover of life!
Juan C is a COMMUNIST!
May 7th, 2007 at 12:27 pmJoe,
May 7th, 2007 at 12:27 pmI don’t live in your Nazi nation.
I live in Mexico and know 1st hand what how the US corporations rape us Latinos!
Hey, Juan:
Do you see something racist in my post?
I’m not a racist.
You, however, appear to be an idiot.
May 7th, 2007 at 12:27 pmValiant,
You are a race traitor siding with a Whiteman against your people! How do you live with yourself? It’s like a Muslim who doesn’t support Al-Qaeda or Hamas! Traitors all you.
You are the lowest form!
Comment by Gerald Gibson Jr. — May 7, 2007 @ 12:24 pm
I am a race traitor becausee I don’t walk in lock step with other Latinos? wow….the level of stupidity and ridiculousness in this site is laughable.
sorry kid, there are plenty of Latinos who think just like me. We just don’t take the word of Liberals and Democrats for granted. We know that the Democratic Party and that Liberals do not have our best interests at heart. We know that the Democratic Party uses and abuses us.
regardless, your post is laughable at best.
but nice to know that already two Liberals who have always claimed to lvoe the USA don’t mind Al Qaeda, Hamas and other terrorist organizations that kill Americans or for that matter anyone that dares stand against them.
Nice to know that the Democratic Party and the Liberals are made of…..monsters. sad, sad……
May 7th, 2007 at 12:28 pmI’d encourage our Mexican friends to be very suspicious of the US govt. allowing you such free passage back and forth. Even when the US offers you amnesty you should think it over very carefully. The US govt. (vampire) needs some fresh blood to feed on and it has its target set on the Mexicans. Mexicans, if you want your families destroyed and your women to become bitter man-hating superficial, materialistic, career chyck feminists who are dependent on big daddy government then by all means come to the USA. But, if a strong family is what you desire, I’d advise you to avoid coming to the USA. It’s crazy here in Femerica! You’ve been warned! Mexican Men, you will be fleeced by the US govt. Count on it!
——————
AnimarÃa a nuestros amigos mexicanos que fueran muy sospechosos de los E.E.U.U. govt. no prohibiéndote tal paso libre hacia adelante y hacia atrás. Aun cuando los E.E.U.U. te ofrecen amnistÃa que debes pensarla encima muy cuidadosamente. Los E.E.U.U. govt. (vampiro) necesitan una cierta sangre fresca alimentar encendido y la hacen su blanco fijar en el mexicano. El mexicano, si deseas a tus familias destruidas y a tus mujeres para hacer el hombre-odiar amargo superficial, materialistic, las feministas del chyck de la carrera que son dependientes en el gobierno grande del papá entonces por supuesto viene a los E.E.U.U. Pero, si una familia fuerte es lo que deseas, te aconsejarÃa evitar de venir a los E.E.U.U. ¡Está loco aquà en Femerica! ¡Te han advertido! ¡Los hombres mexicanos, la cuenta de los E.E.U.U. govt. en ella te esquilarás! Hermanos de la paz
May 7th, 2007 at 12:28 pmI’m a Marxist. What do you know about Marxism other than the lies told in your corporate media.
May 7th, 2007 at 12:28 pmGerald Gibson Jr.,
You’re are officially a psycopath. Print yourself a certificate of commencement and have yourself a radically-prepared meal.
May 7th, 2007 at 12:29 pmKick those illegals out of my country. Take their property, cars everything they have. Kick them out to Mexico where they come from. Revoke their children’s citizenship too. Citizenship should be earned and should not be granted on the basis of birth. I say, no more automatic citizenship.
They dont pay any taxes, they dont have any right to use our infrastructure, our schools, our hospitals etc.
There are other immigrants also from other countries, but they come through proper channel using proper documentation, they work here according to the law of US and they contribute to the society by paying taxes. Illegal immigrants dont pay any taxes, so why shd we as taxpayers bear the brunt of these illegals.
May 7th, 2007 at 12:30 pmOooh: they steal identities!
And then they—go to work at companies where they pay payroll taxes into the other person’s account!
The horror!
The fact of the matter is thatwe have absolutely no legal way for a worker to come here legally to work and/or become an American citizen. None.
So it’s illegitimate to say they should obey the law. It’s like saying you can’t drive without a license, and refusing to issue a license. That’s not justice, that’s Catch-22.
On the other hand there’s work. There are hundreds of thousands of companies offering better money than they can make in Mexico.
The solution is simple: allow them to apply for work visas–that really exist. Change the quotas, and allow unskilled or semi-skilled manual laborers to come in from Mexico to work–the way we don’t now.
No new laws, no new principles. Just change the quotas, and stop discriminating against people who want to work hard and work with their hands. Let them come, let them apply for citizenship legally.
I don’t think most of these folks want to break the law. But we’ve been giving them no choice.
May 7th, 2007 at 12:31 pmJuan C,
I am still waiting for you to tell everyone the one Communist nation that has achieved the workers paradise….
is a week too short for you? do you need to do more research and make up more lies?
May 7th, 2007 at 12:31 pmvaliantthehater,
You said – “You are the face of a true Liberal. Happy that Americans are dying in a war. how truly sad for you, how truly sad for Liberals.”
I have tried to have solid debate with you on this site before, but these type of statements (and I know they happen from people on both sides of aisle and it makes me sick when anyone does it) makes me want to completely ignore you.
It is not the “face of a true Liberal” ‘Liberals’ are not interested in allowing Islamo-Terrorists or Christo-terrorists to kill anyone. It’s sad to me that you would think such a thing. It’s especially more sad that since you disagree with your countrymen on the best way to fight the “terrorist” threat, that you paint us all as terrorists sympathizers. Surely you must be smarter than this.
May 7th, 2007 at 12:32 pmYeah baby, we round them all up, run through a brief hearing to determine their illegal status, tag them with GPS device and tatoo their arms to deter them from coming back. We load them up in cattle cars, buses, and ship them just across the border. If they come back across we….we….uh….do it all again, if they come back we….we…..uh shoot them as they cross the border, nah, we cut off their feet, nah, that won’t work, we send the bill for transportation to Fox in Mexico City…we lay out landmines, a wall, a squadron of Predator drones with weapons, just think the opening scenes from “Terminator”. That is it, then we can proudly proclaim victory over the brown horde and pat ourselves on the back for stooping to level of genocidial authortarians, you know like Pol Pot and Hitler, those guys.
May 7th, 2007 at 12:34 pmJoe,
I don’t live in your Nazi nation.
I live in Mexico and know 1st hand what how the US corporations rape us Latinos!
Comment by Juan C — May 7, 2007 @ 12:27 pm
JUAN C IS A LIAR! For a fact he said he was not in Mexico on several different threads that are now in the old thread section. Stop BSing Juan C you communist!
May 7th, 2007 at 12:34 pmValiant,
Che is loved and admired by Millions around the world. Your hero Bush is hated. Che was a courageous lover of life!
Comment by Juan C — May 7, 2007 @ 12:26 pm
Si, El Che, un puto, is also adored by the European Nazis…..you are in with your friends my man. I take it you haven’t seen or heard about the Nazi Youth groups in Europe who love wearing El Che shirts and preach about him, eh?
and El Che has been mytholized (if there is such a word) by the left wing press of the world.
Very few people know the true Ernesto Guevarra, a little doctor who became a muderer, who believed that the ends justify the means. If a woman and a child stood on his way of communist progress, he would rape the woman, and kill them both.
you stand by and admire a muderer, a rapist.
May 7th, 2007 at 12:35 pmChe Guevarra was a compassionate, intelligent and learned man who struggled for human rights. He and Alberto Granado together founded the Cuban medical system, which still produces doctors renowned for their skill and compassion.
May 7th, 2007 at 12:35 pmChe was disillusioned by Castro’s coziness with the Soviets, he saw that the Soviet version of communism was less than true communism, and more authoritarian totalitarianism.
Which caused him to focus his efforts in South America, where he was murdered, after being captured by CIA backed Bolivian mercenaries.
There are far worse things to be these days than a true communist.
“I am still waiting for you to tell everyone the one Communist nation that has achieved the workers paradise….”
Cuba and now Venezuala!
May 7th, 2007 at 12:37 pmCrump’s Brother….
I see no Liberal demanding an apology from Juan C for very gleefuly claiming that Americans are being killed in Iraq by Islamo-terrorist pigs.
will any of you Liberals demand an apology from Juan C for being happy that Americans are dying in Iraq? will you?
until then you are siding with him by omission.
you always seem to be outraged by my posts, but obviously you aren’t outraged by Juan C’s comments.
yes my friend, sadly enough there are many liberals in america who are very happy that American soldiers are dying in a war. that is a fact.
Liberals side with pigs like Juan C through their silence and lack of condemnation.
May 7th, 2007 at 12:38 pmValiant,
May 7th, 2007 at 12:39 pmJuan C es un hijo de mami y papi! He’s a ridch spoiled Mexican who feeling guilty over having money is a Marxist. He’s a 1st class loser.
Che Guevarra was a compassionate, intelligent and learned man who struggled for human rights. He and Alberto Granado together founded the Cuban medical system, which still produces doctors renowned for their skill and compassion.
Comment by Raven — May 7, 2007 @ 12:35 pm
Compassionate? hahahahahaha!!!! oh man this is getting better and better…..El Che compassionate…hahaha!!! you might want to tell that to the countless of people he murdered who stood on his way to accomplish his dream of the Communist Utopia.
go ahead, go to their graves and tell them que Ernesto Guevarra was a compassionate man. wow!
May 7th, 2007 at 12:39 pmI’m a Marxist. What do you know about Marxism other than the lies told in your corporate media.
Comment by Juan C — May 7, 2007 @ 12:28 pm
So you are a COMMUNIST and the US is a DEMOCRACY that you and those like you want to DESTROY.
GFY
May 7th, 2007 at 12:40 pmvaliant prick
No, your not here to show your support for Bush.
You just happen to want all the same things he wants and at the same time you can’t stop crying about all the nasty Liberals.
Boo Hoo
You can’t support Bush because nobody can.
He’s unsupportable.
Like you, nobody is buying the lies.
Boo fucking hoo.
May 7th, 2007 at 12:41 pm“I see no Liberal demanding an apology from Juan C for very gleefuly claiming that Americans are being killed in Iraq by Islamo-terrorist pigs. ”
They are not terrorists. They are brave Jihad warriors fighting the unjust Capitalistic systemj. The US gov. did 9/11, that’s a fact.
May 7th, 2007 at 12:41 pmWatch Loose Change then we can talk.
I believe that Juan was the devil having relations with Sadaam in that old south park movie.
May 7th, 2007 at 12:43 pmhey valiantthehater :
How about all the money the amreican consulate in Mexico City receives every day?
Almost 1500 mexicans try to apply for a visa and have to pay $100, that gives you every day $150,000 , monthy $ 4,500,000 regardless they get or not a visa. More than 50 millions dollars per year, only that consulate, plus they have a process to fingerprint people whi their names match with criminals in US and that gives you 10 per hour at $ 85.00 rate, so in 5 hours you have at least $ 4,250.00 per day and per month $ 127,500, per year only $ 1,530,000.
Have you seen how much money some software companies in US get every year?. At this moment technology is in a crisis, sending all the jobs to India and China, outsourcing the minimum job and if a software company makes $50 million dollars in one year, was too much, and look the american consulate, so why do you cry for all those mexicans sending money to US?. oh and therea re about 5 american consulates around Mexico , so that will give more than $100, 000 million dollars just to tell them , no visa!. So stop crying like a cc.
May 7th, 2007 at 12:43 pmJuan C,
hahahahaha!!! Cuba a workers paradise? really….hahaha!
y Venezuela con el puto de Hugo Chavez? haha….another joke.
do tell, what is the standard of living in Cuba? how about homosexuals in Cuba, do tell everyone here how many rights homosexuals have in Cuba. While you are it, why don’t you tell everyone about the ration books in Cuba.
furthemore, when you speak about Venezuela, why don’t you speak about the poverity rate of Venezuela. How many years has Hugo Chavez been in power, 10 in 2008, what is the poverity rate in Venezuela? and in Cuba.
I guess a workers paradise for you is one in which the charlatans in government tell everyone that the government is for them, but oddly enough those in governemnt at fat cats and the people are dirt poor, eh?
I guess your workers paradise is one in which the media and the peopole can’t disagree with the government, in which if anyone dares speak against the governmnt they end up being political prisoners. right? I take it you don’t care that in cuba and venezuela the media is controlled by the government.
Venezuela and Cuba a workers paradise….hahaha!! do you have anymore jokes Juanito?
and what do you think about the Nazis in Europe wearing El Che shirts and praising him, ,etc, etc.
May 7th, 2007 at 12:44 pmI’m with Dobbs. I’m a Democrat and pretty much a liberal on most issues, but “respecting” those who break our laws and catering to their wishes because they’ll be a huge future voting demographic is B.S. Their is a procedure for legally coming to the U.S., let them abide by it.
May 7th, 2007 at 12:44 pmIf we can send a man to the moon, fight a ridiculous war in Iraq, and cut taxes for the ultra-rich, we can scrape up some change to crack down on illegal border crossings of all types, as well as deport criminal aliens in our country. Yes, I said criminal, if you break the law to get here, you’re a criminal.
The Joker,
Yes, Juanito seems to havce the Great White Guilt. I have seen this before, rich kids in Latino America who feel guilty and end up believing in Marxism. funny enough, they believe in it, but don’t live by it. Much like Liberals here in the USA.
May 7th, 2007 at 12:46 pmComment by valiantthehater — May 7, 2007 @ 12:12 pm
———————————–
Nice, if irrational, rant at an attempt to avoid the questions. I’ll try to keep is simple to make it easier for you:
(1) What is a “law” supposed to mean if it’s applied in a double standard and can change three times a day at whim? Specifically like the laws against torture and Iran’s right to nuclear power.
(2) We love to charge “suspected” terrorists for committing acts of “terrorism” but there is no legal definition of “terrorism” that we recognize, is there? Can you direct me to that “law”?
That should be simple enough even for the Republican “law abiding” mind like yours.
May 7th, 2007 at 12:47 pmright on dobbs, right on.
Oh, excuse me, TP, yeah I still don’t like seeing Dobbs’ face, I thought we went over this. don’t let it happen again
May 7th, 2007 at 12:50 pmvaliantthehater,
your arguments are getting harder to understand. Siding with him by omission? Really? So one is with everything someone else says unless they go out of there way to say otherwise? That’s rich….
If Juan C said this “Either way our Ilsamic allies are killing you and your Anglo masters by the dozens in Iraq!” Then he is a jackass!!!
But regardless, if it is someone who was not trying to be “juan c” and say something imflammatroy just to set you off, and they were serious, then I would argue that they are a fringe whacko, nad would need to be marginalized. But I would say the same of many in the current Republican Party and viewpoint. I kow that most good Republicans don’t think their Democratic countrymen are “for terrorist” if they disagree with the way the war is being waged. In fact many Republicans are with the 70 percenters who think the whole thing should shut down. But try not to paint all Republicans that way. Surely you can see the difference.
May 7th, 2007 at 12:51 pmWowee. This thread has devolved into a full-on rhetorical food-fight with crap being slung right to left and back again. Valiant The Hater never did come up with citations for her bizarre charges of hospitals closing because of illegal immigrants, and some of you guys let her get away with it. With equally stupid pro-terrorist and marxist comments leading the way, you just handed a small victory to the resident trolls. They’re gonna get an extra ice cream sandwich at lunch, because of you.
May 7th, 2007 at 12:51 pmDear Juan,
No one party is supposed to endear themselves to applauding worker poverty, racism, etc. Radical politics on either side of the political spectrum yield the same result: racism, poverty, etc. You don’t have to make a fool of yourself. The US is supposed to be about individualism, not one group pounding for dominance over another.
May 7th, 2007 at 12:53 pmDiversity lies in individualism, not groups like LA RAZA.
May 7th, 2007 at 12:55 pmkRank,
it never stops with you liberals, begging and begging for people you disagree with to put up sources for their claims, but you LIberals never put up one source for you claims.
please, when every single liberal on this site and every other site who makes a claim provides sources and citing for their claims, then I’ll start doing the same. Until then, stop crying about it.
Just look at those that agree with you, pro-terrorist, pro-communist pigs. It must make Liberals happy that they are in such good company.
May 7th, 2007 at 12:57 pmAnybody not for mass deportation is a fool.
May 7th, 2007 at 1:00 pm#97 said:
What a ridiculously childish and wrong statement. Illegals don’t pay into the “accounts” of those persons whom identities they steal. Sure they pay sales taxes when they buy food, but that’s it. They don’t pay local taxes that affect your services, i.e., property or transfer taxes, or other taxes. It is also undisputed that a vast majority don’t pay income taxes either (state or federal). Why should they obey our tax laws if they certainly can’t obey our simple immigration laws?
Additionally, as posted elsewhere, they take advantage of social services such as emergency rooms and other taxpayer-supported services (which they don’t pay into). Thus, many hospitals in L.A. and other heavily populated areas of illegals are shut down.
I’m a tax professor–your statement has no merit and must be discounted before anybody else picks it up.
May 7th, 2007 at 1:01 pmMass deportations won’t help a thing. Any country with jobs will inevitably be a target for illegal immigration from countries without jobs. The “cure” is for the illegals to be politically active in their home countries to affect change (which is tough when you can’t put food on your table) and for the well off countries to adopt sensible LEGAL immigration policies (out of the shadows, they can feel more comfortable being active community members instead of being closed off). Closing the door on immigration doesn’t help anybody — illegals are consumers too, but an open door policy (which includes blanket amnesties) can cause a significant strain on resources, jobs, and wages, not to mention be discouraging and infuriating to those that DID follow the rules for years and years. It’s a difficult balance! I can tell you from working in the immigration law field, it takes freaking FOREVER to get anything done with the CIS. No wonder illegal immigration is an option for many.
May 7th, 2007 at 1:04 pmCrump’s Brother,
name all the Democratic Party leaders who condemn the extreme left wingers who called Dr. Rice Aunt Jemima….
while you are it, name all the Democratic Party leaders who condemn those who called Powell as sell out.
while you are it, do tell me the name of all the Democratic Leaders who have condemned anti-American groups like Code Pink, ANSWER, etc who love to join Liberals in marches against Republicans and right wing causes.
yes, there are many, many I mean many misguided, but very patriotic Democrats, but I truly believe that there is an equal number who hate America, love to blame America first, who are shameless in their insults towards minorities who join Republicans.
I mean just look how main stream Democrats treated Michael Steel during the election.
May 7th, 2007 at 1:05 pmJoe,
La Raza is a shameful, racist organization. It is full of ignorant, racist Latinos.
La Raza, the Brown berets, are no different than the KKK, Nazis, etc.
Just like the Black Panthers and Farakhan’s group are also no different than the KKK and the Nazis.
May 7th, 2007 at 1:07 pmJoe,
May 7th, 2007 at 1:07 pmYou are racist!
I’m not sure about your comment either. Unless the employer is knowingly hiring illegals, FICA and income will be withheld like anybody else. Citizens who rent don’t pay property taxes, but the landlords do (what’s the difference?) and as far as the hopital argument… what would you say we do? Ask for proof of citizenship before treatment?? That’s incredibly inhumane – screw the tax burden! I’ll pay that in taxes if I know it’s saving a life.
May 7th, 2007 at 1:08 pmDiversity lies in individualism, not groups like LA RAZA.
Comment by Joe — May 7, 2007 @ 12:55 pm
Juan C….
I wonder if you know that you are barking up the wrong tree. Most citizens (born or naturalized here, especially those that were naturalized here) regard illegal aliens as criminals!
May 7th, 2007 at 1:08 pmMy guess is that you will next want a race war!
Anybody not for mass deportation is a fool.
Comment by EasyRider — May 7, 2007 @ 1:00 pm
—————————–
Anybody for mass deportation needs to grow a brain.
May 7th, 2007 at 1:09 pmvaliantthehater,
May 7th, 2007 at 1:11 pmGeoirge Bush is to blame for all the world’s ills. He’s done nothing on global warming, AIDs and world hunger. He was behind 9/11 and ok’ed Israeli agression against the peace loving Palestinians and brave Hezzbollah fighters.
So it’s Bush that is to blame. When Hillary wins the world be set right!
I’m so tired of this “hate America” argument the right uses. As if us left wingers sit around in their basement rubbing their hands together like some James Bond villain planning what they can do next to the citizens of this country since they “hate it” so much.
Affecting change and believing in a cause so much that you fight for it is the MOST AMERICAN thing you can do! That most CERTAINLY includes civil protesting. If anything, it shows how much you LOVE this country since you are fighting so hard to fix it. If you hated it, you’d move away and quit paying the tax burden. You know, like the mega-wealthy that revoke their citizenship and move to the Bahamas.
May 7th, 2007 at 1:13 pmGerald Gibson Jr.,
Resorting to name calling when you’ve lost a debate…. why make it obvious? Put up some credible information or ship out. Your ideology, sir, is bigoted all on its own and breeds hate and division. Then, once you’ve succeeded, you blame the opposite party for creating your mess.
Think twice before you slander me.
May 7th, 2007 at 1:18 pmJust got on for today… sorry for all the racists talk from the person that hijacked my name. I suppose it is the same person that has done so in the past because everytime they do it they spew racists BS in my name because they are COWARDS that support Saudi Arabia getting off scott free for 911 and wont use their real names to publically say so…. Thanks for another Vietnam Iraqi style you righty traitorous cowards.
May 7th, 2007 at 1:20 pmvaliantthehater,
Why do I need to name people for you. WHAT IN GOD’S EARTH ARE TALKING ABOUT?!?!?!?!?
Why is it my job to justify or disavow the views of another just because he/she calls themself a Democrat? I’m not a party leader. What happen to personal responsibility?
Are their times when people should openly distance themselves from whacko fringe elements? Of course. Just as the Republican candidates tried to do when Ann Coulter called John Edawards a “faggot”. But they aren’t responsible for what she said. They are responsible for giving her a platform. Now if something similar happened at a Democratic Presidential event, I would expect thsoe candidates to distance themselves. But they are the party leaders. I’m not going to justify or in anyway be told I’m responsible for the words of idiot on a blog site. Are you responsible to the Republican Party for the inflammatory crap you say on here? Should be puttin gout press releases disavowing your thoughts when you call us all terrorist sympathizers.
May 7th, 2007 at 1:21 pmAffecting change and believing in a cause so much that you fight for it is the MOST AMERICAN thing you can do! That most CERTAINLY includes civil protesting.
Comment by Parrotlover77 — May 7, 2007 @ 1:13 pm
you certainly have been brainwashed by college professors.
I am sorry that you are too blind to face the truth, but there is a good segment of the left that hates America and wished America was not a super power. that is a fact.
Obviously, you seem to not be part of this group. But i have spoken with, debated with many left wingers who calmly and wishfuly say that America is the cause of all evils in the world, who claim that America should not be a super power, and who like Juan C and ggibson on this thread love it when americans soldiers die in wars.
like it or not, there are many left wingers who think like and speak like the American haters Juan C and Gerald Gibson.
Just like the 2nd Amendment, the right to own a gun, comes with great responsability, freedom of speech and the right to gather and protest comes with great responsability. The problem with the left is that they don’t believe the latter. They believe that they can say what they want, whenever they want with no consequences and without taking responsability.
May 7th, 2007 at 1:22 pmValiant,
You’ve been winning the debate, so you don’t need to worry much.
May 7th, 2007 at 1:24 pm#30 I’m down with ethnic cleansing, good work on this one
May 7th, 2007 at 1:24 pmHow’s this for typical Republican “respect” for the letter and the spirit of “The Law”.
And, if our invasion, destruction and occupation of Iraq is legal, why is the US under invasion and occupation by undocumented workers illegal?
May 7th, 2007 at 1:27 pm>and do tell, how can I be racist against my own people……tick, tock, tick, >tock, tick, tock….
>Comment by valiantthehater
Because of dumbness?
May 7th, 2007 at 1:28 pmI am sorry that you are too blind to face the truth, but there is a good segment of the left that hates America and wished America was not a super power. that is a fact.
Facts require evidence…. something you antiScience people never seem to get.
The traitors that sold out America to Saudi Arabia and made secret deals with Pakistan in the days after 911 to let Osama live there without American intervention are the ones that hate America… I heard them at church every sunday, thursday, some wednesdays, and during tent revivals… they hate America because we let our people live lives of individual freedom no matter what hate is taught in the bible… and that really pisses these rightwing terrorist America haters off… They want to FORCE bible laws on America no matter what the U.S. Constitution or the Bill of Rights says…
May 7th, 2007 at 1:28 pmValiant,
You’ve been winning the debate, so you don’t need to worry much.
Comment by Joe — May 7, 2007 @ 1:24 pm
May 7th, 2007 at 1:29 pm——————————
And the liberals claim that Republicans cannot be funny! That will sure show them.
No, it’s not.
Then you should have no trouble finding quotes and feel no shame in naming these left wingers.
May 7th, 2007 at 1:30 pmlike it or not, there are many left wingers who think like and speak like the American haters Juan C and Gerald Gibson.
Comment by valiantthehater
You cowards are so pathetic that you have to INVENT crazy lefties that dont exist to act as straw men for you to knock down by HiJACKING my name and spewing BS that I and most people to the left of bat shit crazy right would never say.
May 7th, 2007 at 1:32 pmExcellent! Without addressing a single point in my post, Valiant has successfully reiterated his entire original post (apparently as a retaliation and/or argument against what I was saying, but I’m not sure), sans any actual facts…again. Good Job! With that type of writing, you could be a successful politican just like the President, never answering any question, never addressing real issues, but always ready to spout out talking points (and more importantly, fear) that fit your agenda.
Good job on the dig on college professors (surprised the word “liberal” didn’t find its way in there). I’ll take the writings of Thomas Jefferson any day over your dribble about how the left hates America. Or did all the college professors in the world somehow take all copies of Jefferson’s writings and replace them with versions that slant to the left in an attempt to brainwash America?
May 7th, 2007 at 1:32 pmGerald Gibson,
I don’t advocate the bible-thumping, in-your-face conservatism. You only speak of conservatism on one side, and you are a bigot.
May 7th, 2007 at 1:35 pmExactly! Any human of any political persuasion is a disgusting and vile soul to relish in the fact that ANYBODY (soldier or civilian) died. That’s absolutely repulsive.
Such contempt for human life would be met with great hostility in any liberal blog I know of.
May 7th, 2007 at 1:35 pmI don’t advocate the bible-thumping, in-your-face conservatism. You only speak of conservatism on one side, and you are a bigot.
Comment by Joe
I grew up in their world… if I am a bigot against them then they made me that way…
And you are correct… not ALL conservatives are like that …just the ones that are involved in politics it seems…
May 7th, 2007 at 1:38 pmAmerica has been said to be a beacon of hope, prosperity and hope throughout the world. So we shouldn’t be surprised when people show up that is what a beacon does, it attracts. The problem is it isn’t a trickle of people but a wave of immigrants. I read yesterday that Mexico is losing more people to immigration than to death, think about that for a minute. Why I am all for people coming here for an opportunity I don’t believe that they should be exploited as an almost slave class of citizens. It isn’t that they are doing the jobs that American’s won’t do, its that they will do them for $3 an hour with no rights. Someone mentioned construction earlier, well the white guy on the construction site is called the foreman.
What is amnesty going to do but make everyone who was just thinking about crossing make a mad dash to the other side of the border.
Are education system and health care system are maxed out now as it is, what are we supposed to do? All I can think of is promoting English Classes in Mexico.
May 7th, 2007 at 1:43 pmMore fear tactics from a talking head. Pay no attention to this BS.
May 7th, 2007 at 1:43 pmEverybody,
Thanks to all of you for a lively discussion. I apologize if my words got too heated.
And Gerald, your point on the other side of conservatism is well taken, thank you.
May 7th, 2007 at 1:46 pmThis Bushco Crime family has no intention of deporting anyone – They and their pals in the prison privatizing industry need to fill beds…and the ‘guest workers’ will become the answer. Checkout the GEO Group, CCA and TMC out of Utah…this is the future for illegals. They will become guest workers alright. Lou Dobbs is a jackass.
May 7th, 2007 at 1:49 pmBush has done nothing for illegal immigration. He is a bum.
May 7th, 2007 at 1:53 pmFrankly, is shameful the amount of racists who blossom in threads about immigration.
BTW, I think a big share of the posts of Juan C in this thread have been from a hijacker troll.
May 7th, 2007 at 1:56 pmvaliantthehater,
You’re a Latino who sides with the Anglo power structure! You are a traitor!
Either way our Ilsamic allies are killing you and your Anglo masters by the dozens in Iraq!
Comment by Juan C
I see racism is not exlcusive to whites.
May 7th, 2007 at 1:56 pmeducation system and health care system are maxed out now as it is, what are we supposed to do? All I can think of is promoting English Classes in Mexico.
I agree. We can not just act like there is no problem to be solved.
It seems this problem exists because of an imbalance. If we evened things out a bit then the problem would reduce as well. But how can we help make Mexico a more attractive place to live so more Mexicans want to stay in their own country… or even go back?
May 7th, 2007 at 2:01 pmNo one has advocated mass deportation for illegal aliens, however the USA is perfectly capable of deporting them all. Deporting through attrition is the only reasonable solution, which could easily come about by enforcing all the immigration laws. Unfortunately, the truth is that the Bush administration picks and chooses the laws it enforces.
Punishing corrupt employers with the laws on the books as written would bring about change in a hurry. When employers realized they were facing fines and jail time the employment of illegals would cease quickly. With jobs unavailable many illegals would self-deport.
However the borders should be secured because of possible terrorists and the danger that drug smugglers bring to our country. What kind of president openly welcomes illegals and has not secured the borders so many years after 9/11?
May 7th, 2007 at 2:04 pm#154 – Evil Spaniard
I think you’re right. Juan’s name has been hijacked. He said earlier he was leaving for the day.
May 7th, 2007 at 2:10 pm“I think this country can do anything it sets its mind to.â€
I guess this country just hasn’t set it’s mind to ending things like:
Poverty
May 7th, 2007 at 2:12 pmRacism
Sexism
Equal Rights
Peace
Quality education for all
Healthcare for all citizens
Mexico is the wealthiest country in Latin America with an abundance of natural resources that could be used to provide the Mexican people with a good quality of life. However, Mexico is ruled by a corrupt elite that must be replaced. Unfortunately, the Mexican people must do this for themselves, there is nothing that the USA can do or should do. It is up to them to remake their country into a place they want to live and raise their children.
May 7th, 2007 at 2:12 pmLets see, Whos SCREAMING ” ILLEGALS”? Not Doctors, Professors, Technicans, Bankers, Business Owners, Teachers or Professionals,
But theUNEDUCATED LOW WAGE PERSON. Also most are from BOISE Idaho who got laid off when Whirlpool closed, so now they have time to get unemloyment & sit online. WELL DONE, YEAHHHHHHH :)
The only way this issue will be resolved will be by changing the Immigration Laws.
ANSWER ONLY ONE SIMPLE QUESTION, Who will pay Social Security for the BABY BOOMERS “YOU” or your Father that will be needing it soon ?
May 7th, 2007 at 2:19 pm# 97 pbg, you should not make such bold statements when you are wrong. The USA does have programs for guest workers. In addition, you seem to forget that the United States is a sovereign country, which means it has the power to decide who comes and goes across our borders. Just because a foreigner wants to come here doesn’t mean they have a right to. We are a country governed by the rule of law, which makes the ongoing invasion of illegal aliens so dangerous and unacceptable. Advocating for the violation of our laws can only lead in one direction and that is to anarchy.
May 7th, 2007 at 2:20 pmps: Lou DObbs dose not talk about, Foregin trade, Trade deficit, Social Security, Health Care, Education, MEdicare, Medicaid?? HMMM Straching head, ,
Yep its easier to bash someone who has no voice and install hate than to find the RIGHT SOLUTIONS TO THE AILMENTS OF OUR NATION.
We will suffer if we do not tke care of the things above, WE ARE A NATION OF DEBT, YOU GET IT? USA WILL BEOWNED BY CHINA, WE ALREADY OWE THEM TRILLIONS, Where will all this money come from? “YOU” the Unemployed LOW wage worker, or form the Corporations that are here and still try to mantian their profitibilty in the Global Economic world markets and pay Biullions in taxes?
May 7th, 2007 at 2:28 pmBefore you waste time and ahting others, Learn a Profession , and you wont have to WORRY about some poor migrant picking food in the Feilds or washing cars & Dishes..
# 40, JT, you are right about the terrorists staying illegally here on expired visas, but I disagree that with your second premise. The truth is that we have adequate laws already, the problem lies squarely with President Bush who blatantly refuses to enforce them.
In addition, there are laws that need to be changed such as eliminating anchor babies, the visa lottery, etc.
The only solution to the problem of millions of illegals in the USA with thousands more coming everyday is for American citizens to contact their reps from President Bush on down to the local level demanding enforcement of our laws and that our reps fulfill their oaths of office.
May 7th, 2007 at 2:29 pmStart deporting CEOs of companies that have more than 100 illegal immigrants and work down from there. By the end of the month we should be able to increase the quota of legal immigrants.
May 7th, 2007 at 2:30 pmBrooke2 and John M.
To lay the blame at Bush’s is pedantic. This problem predates Bush and rises above politics (why do you all jump on the hate bandwagon so easily?).
The solution you propose (about contacting politicians) won’t solve the problem. The solution lies on having our immigration laws enforced, period. We have the laws on the books, we just don’t have the wherewithal to enforce them.
May 7th, 2007 at 2:43 pmLou Dobbs is Pro-Immigration. That is to say, Pro-Legal-Immigration. Who here in their right mind, Republican or Democrat, is honestly Pro-Illegal-Immigration. Barring the Bush Administration and their Borderless America allies in the Democratic Party, what decent and intelligent citizen can honestly say they are Pro-Illegal-Immmigration?
May 7th, 2007 at 2:45 pmDreary Urbanite,
Really? Let’s analyze this: How many CEOs are there of companies with the potential for >100 illegals? A few thousand.
So, we deport a few thousand CEOs. Yeah, that will really provide increase quotas for more immigrants. Problem solved. We should elect you as the next President.
May 7th, 2007 at 2:45 pmthe Mexican people must do this for themselves, there is nothing that the USA can do or should do. It is up to them to remake their country into a place they want to live and raise their children.
Comment by brooke2
Once their problems spill over out of their house into ours … it becomes our problem also… and so we should consider ALL options for how we can fix this problem. I didnt say there is an imbalance between Mexico and the rest of central and south America… i said between Mexico and the USA. The imbalanced slide is leaning in our direction and so it is towards the USA that these people drift to… balance things out and they are less likely to be drawn here.
May 7th, 2007 at 2:49 pm“VALIANTHEHATER” the fact that you’re a Latino doesn’t mean you get a special status which makes it ok to offer ridiculous arguments for the deportation of illegals. Ignorance afflicts all races and ethnic groups.
Wow! America’s ignorance, arrogance, and racism continue unabated, even in progressive circles. Those of you who desire the most severe consequences for illegal immigrants’ violations of immigration laws are hypocrites and dare I say idiots. Hypocrites because not a day goes by that you don’t reap the benefits of the illegal immigrants’ exploitation by big corporations. Idiots because you lack human decency and because you fail to grasp the economic, emotional, and societal costs associated with mass deportation, a human rights tragedy in the making.
Do the illegal immigrants break American law when they enter into the U.S.? Yes. Are there problems caused by unchecked immigration into this country? Absolutely. Can these problems be dealt with in comprehensive and humane approaches? Of course. There is legislation in the making that calls for background checks, reasonable fines to pay, and a path to legal resident status with citizenship down the line available for those who work hard, obey the laws, pay their taxes and who contribute and want to participate in the American dream.
Mass deportation would be cost prohibitive to the tune of over $200 billion dollars. Crime would dramatically increase. Neighbor would be pitted against neighbor. Corporations would continue to exploit illegal immigrants potentially creating a new slavery where there are absolutely no rights for the illegal worker, and that would have a much bigger impact on overall wages in the U.S. Human beings would be forced to live in the shadows of American society, completely segregated. The racial divide would increase. The likely negative consequences of such a move would be catastrophic for America and the American way of life.
I don’t advocate open borders as an effective immigration policy. There have to be limits. But, the fact of the matter is the 12 million or so undocumented immigrants who are here now are here because there have been jobs available for them to take. Simple supply and demand. Let’s honor those who are honest and hardworking, and whether you like it or not, are already part of the American fabric, with the opportunity for permanent residency and eventually citizenship, after they pay fines, and learn some English. For those who are guilty of identity theft, there should be a just punishment. Those who have criminal records, depending on the severity of their crimes, should either have to pay more fines, or, if deemed to be threats to society, or guilty of serious crimes, should not be allowed to remain in this country and immediately deported. They constitute a very small percentage of undocumented immigrants.
Keep in mind, the vast majority of the illegal immigrants who enter the U.S. were farmers and agricultural workers who lost their jobs and livelihood as a direct result of American trade policies. The subsidies that we all pay in taxes to American farmers are in effect buying out their Mexicans’ and Central and South Americans’ ability to earn a living and support their families. The vast majority of these people aren’t coming here for handouts. They come to work so that they and their children can eat, and have an opportunity to live a dignified life.
We should start by changing American foreign trade policy so that it not decimate other countries’ economies and ruin peoples’ ability to earn a living. It would probably be far cheaper to invest in rebuilding these tattered economies than to carry out the ludicrous proposition of deporting 12 million human beings, and it would be much more humane and far more effective at curbing migration to the U.S.
Try to understand the fact that when people decide to leave their home country, more often than not it is done as a last resort. Most people don’t want to leave their families and their entire lives behind at home to travel to a foreign country where they’re not welcomed just so they can make ends meet. It is done out of frustration and desperation.
Lastly, some of you immigrant haters need to keep things in perspective. Unlike your immigrant ancestors who committed murderous genocide against the Native Americans to steal their lands, immigrants today want to become part of the American fabric, not to destroy it.
May 7th, 2007 at 2:53 pmOK, brooke2 and greenback, JT, too…. it’s just gonna cost the U.S. some dough.
May 7th, 2007 at 2:55 pm[b]Bush is so full of crap.[/b] Ike rounded up millions.. it worked fine.
Kennedy and Mc Cain are spineless, bought and paid for
May 7th, 2007 at 2:59 pmBrooke2 and John M.
To lay the blame at Bush’s is pedantic. This problem predates Bush and rises above politics (why do you all jump on the hate bandwagon so easily?).
The solution you propose (about contacting politicians) won’t solve the problem. The solution lies on having our immigration laws enforced, period. We have the laws on the books, we just don’t have the wherewithal to enforce them.
Comment by JT — May 7, 2007
Bush has to be put to blame on this. He has had 6 years to rectify the problem with a congress and senate that he could pass anything through. The problem is that he does not want to stop it. He wants the borders to be wide open.
As for fixing the problem, it is easy. Cut off free healthcare and any other benefits for illegals, get rid of the anchor baby loophole and nail the hell out of companies that hire illegals without documents. If you take away the advantage that they gain by coming here, the won’t come.
May 7th, 2007 at 3:00 pmdantheman,
well said!!!
I have always said that we don’t have an illegla immigration probalem so much as a illegal employer problem. I realize that is a simplistic view, but it gets people thinking about what the reasons would be that someone would break the law to come to a country that seems so vociferous about not wanting them.
May 7th, 2007 at 3:02 pmSomeone should break the news to Dobbs: Vietnam, Iraq were two of those things the US “set its mind to”.
We all know how well one turned out, and how well the other is turning out for everyone involved.
What an idiot.
May 7th, 2007 at 3:02 pmPeople in this country like to believe that all those illegals are swarming the border because everything is so wonderful here that they can’t resist, because capitalism has created an Eden here. The attitude ignores the other end of the occasion: that those illegals are leaving their homelands because conditions there are really bad and that American foreign policy, in its support of companies like the American Fruit Company (aka Chiquita) have helped to create and continue those conditions.
If the US was really interested in discouraging immigration from Latin America, we would help people in those countries grow their own food, rather than be a source of cheap food and flowers for Los Estados Unidos. We would also help those people by not supporting the corrupt oligarchies that run countries like Mexico, or propping up dictatorships as we have traditionally done. There is no real reason why Mexico and the rest of Latin America can’t provide a decent living for their citizens except to keep us in cheap bananas and help Chiquita pay massive bribes to dope dealers and right-wing terrorists.
Talk about “personal responsibility.” Typical two-faced crap from the conservatives.
May 7th, 2007 at 3:04 pmJT, yes the problem predates Bush but he is in control of the United States now and has been for six years. He has the power to enforce immigration laws, in addition, his yes-men control everything in Washington.
I said nothing about “hate” please keep on topic.
On the contrary JT, contacting our reps is the only solution that American citizens have. The reason our leaders are not enforcing immigration laws is because Americans have not demanded it. The only real power that individual citizens have is in our collective numbers. Concerned citizens scattered around the U.S. sitting in silence will do nothing, we must tell those in power what we want done regarding this issue.
You say that we don’t have the wherewithal to enforce them. The “we” you speak of has no power, our reps and the president have the power. Can you think of any other way of letting our concerns be known, especially considering Congress is out of touch with the American people?
May 7th, 2007 at 3:08 pmThe imbalanced slide is leaning in our direction and so it is towards the USA that these people drift to… balance things out and they are less likely to be drawn here.
May 7th, 2007 at 3:15 pm
The costs of deportation will prove to be insignificant in comparison to the inflationary spiral that would occur with mass deportations. Remove those workers and unemployment will drop to zero. Wages will rise in response, but never fast enough to cover the resulting price increase in absolutely everything. The Fed will be forced to raise interest rates. Stock prices will plummet.
May 7th, 2007 at 3:22 pmAaron G. Stock, it will cost a lot more if illegals remain. Here are a few excerpts from a new study by Robert Rector of the Heritage Foundation and the link for the full report.
Balance of Taxes and Benefits
On average, low-skill households received $32,138 per household in immediate government benefits and services in FY 2004, including direct benefits, means-tested benefits, education, and populaÂtion-based services. Total benefits rose to $43,084 if public goods and the cost of interest and other financial obligaÂtions are added.
By contrast, low-skill households paid only $9,689 in taxes. Thus, low-skill households received at least three dollars in benefits and services for each dollar in taxes paid. If the costs of public goods and past financial obligations are added, the ratio rises to four to one.
Net Lifetime Costs
Receiving, on average, at least $22,449 more in benefits than they pay in taxes each year, low-skill households impose substantial long-term costs on the U.S. taxpayer. Assuming an average 50-year adult life span for heads of household, the average lifeÂtime costs to the taxpayer will be $1.1 million for each low-skill household, net of any taxes paid. If the costs of interest and other financial obligations are added, the average lifetime cost rises to $1.3 million per household.
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Welfare/sr12.cfm
May 7th, 2007 at 3:46 pm# 178, paul, according to the studies I have read you are wrong. You really should do a little research before making such comments.
May 7th, 2007 at 3:50 pmLastly, some of you immigrant haters need to keep things in perspective. Unlike your immigrant ancestors who committed murderous genocide against the Native Americans to steal their lands, immigrants today want to become part of the American fabric, not to destroy it.
Comment by dantheman — May 7, 2007 @ 2:53 pm
ahhhhh….typical of liberal wackos to claim that anyone that doesn’t want ILLEGAL
May 7th, 2007 at 3:52 pmIt’s the Us’s responsi bilty to fix Mexico. We stole 1/2 there land and our companies have raped their resources. We owe them.
May 7th, 2007 at 3:53 pmThe US has done alot of wrong in the world and now it’s coming back to haunt us. The brave Jihadi fighters are finally defeating American forces in Iraq and Afghanistan. Things couldn’t be better from my point of view!
Lastly, some of you immigrant haters need to keep things in perspective. Unlike your immigrant ancestors who committed murderous genocide against the Native Americans to steal their lands, immigrants today want to become part of the American fabric, not to destroy it.
Comment by dantheman — May 7, 2007 @ 2:53 pm
ahhhh, typical of liberals to claim that anyone that dislikes ILLEGAL immigration, hates immigrants.
sorry kid, we don’t hate immigrants….shit my family and I are LEGAL immigrants……… we welcome and want LEGAL, immigrants. Know the difference between Legal and illegal? nice try at trying to portray anyone that doesn’t want illegal immigration as racists.
as for your rant about Native Americans, you might be unaware that Native Americans committed genocide against each other long before the “evil” white man landed in the Americas and after the “evil” white man landed in the americas.
As for all illegals that have entered in the USA being part of the Ameircan fabric….WRONG again. Many of those that enter the USA illegaly have no interest in being americanized, many actually want to steal American from the Americans. Not all, but many.
In the Latino communities of the United States if you dare become Americanize yourself you are marginalized, ridiculed, and called a sell out.
I can agree with you that we must find a solution that is humane, but you can’t stop deportation because you claim is not humane because you break up families. These individuals broke the law, yes or no? If we stop punishing people because members of their families will be affected negatively, then we should not punish the murderer, the rapist, the thieve, etc, etc.
Also, there is a huge, huge number of illegals that end up in our jails. About 20,000 of the inmates in California jails are illegals, similiar high numbers can be foun din cities like Chicago, New York, etc.
Illegals are a burden on society, not a benefit. I am more than willing to stop the alleged benefiting of illegals work. Let me know exactly what fruits they picked, etc, etc and I will stop buying anything from anyone that knowingly hires illegals.
May 7th, 2007 at 4:06 pmWell, I’m glad to see the racist and fascist ravings of ValianttheVenushater have stopped. Again, all that venom and not one citation to back up her Peronist crap. She probably has a small shrine to her heroes: Peron, Pinochet, Batista, and from the mother country, Franco.
Talk of illegal immigrants just breeds racism and xenophobia. Particularly without any facts to back it up. And there’s the hypocrisy that Texas Republicans routinely exempt themselves from all laws regarding hiring workers without papers.
Saywho is out in libertarian left field as usual. What a jackass!
It’s not even an employer problem. It’s the hypocrisy of pretending you can have Free Trade without Free Borders. Why should goods & capital travel freely from land to land, but not people? Why are people hostage to the land? And then you have this capitalist crap that even the land cannot be tied to the people but can be bought and sold to the highest bidder whatever their nationality. And so people become nationless hobos. No wonder they try to move to the USA.
Prohibition didn’t work because people went on drinking alcohol. All it did was establish organized crime and corrupt officials. The amendment was repealed to reflect reality. If you have a major problem with immigrants, restructure the law.
Citizenship is the key. Refugees should be required to return home should the situation change there. And what’s wrong with letting people work but not grant them citizenship? Those old unionist who think Hispanics are taking away jobs are wrong. The good jobs have been lost to Free Trade that pays no attention to the cruel conditions in Asian sweatshops or the environmental degradation in China and Vietnam. In case you didn’t know, jobs are leaving Mexico too and flying to China, Indonesia, Taiwan and India. NAFTA is a bust.
Free Trade is part of the goofy neo-con belief in laissez-faire capitalism. But there’s no such thing. It’s a crock. Adam Smith’s invisible hand is as mythic as God. It don’t exist. Even Smith said his system only worked with a large number of similar sized firms competing. Look around you! Do you see that? NO. Everything is monopolies and near-monopolies. And nobody cares what the consumer thinks; the consumer can be brainwashed.
May 7th, 2007 at 4:15 pm“ahhhhh….typical of liberal wackos to claim that anyone that doesn’t want ILLEGAL
Comment by valiantthehater — May 7, 2007 @ 3:52 pm”
Man. Can a conservative put together a complete and coherent sentence?
May 7th, 2007 at 4:16 pmWait, that might require thinking, rationality, and facts… Never mind.
valiantthehater,
You said – “as for your rant about Native Americans, you might be unaware that Native Americans committed genocide against each other long before the “evil†white man landed in the Americas and after the “evil†white man landed in the americas.”
This is the latest line of justification for the systematic destruction of the aboriginal tribes of the western hemisphere by christian europeans. Never mind that it isn’t true. (Was there ritual scarifice and the like, yes, but it was far from what one could even remotely consider genocide) But there you go towing the “well they did id first so they had it coming” line of logic. Nicely done!!
May 7th, 2007 at 4:20 pmdantheman,
Idiots because you lack human decency and because you fail to grasp the economic, emotional, and societal costs associated with mass deportation, a human rights tragedy in the making. No one has advocated mass deportation. Deportation can only take place through attrition. Where is all that compassion you have for low skilled American workers whose jobs have disappeared or the wages have fallen so low the jobs left are not worth taking?
Can these problems be dealt with in comprehensive and humane approaches? Of course. There is legislation in the making that calls for background checks, reasonable fines to pay, and a path to legal resident status with citizenship down the line available for those who work hard, obey the laws, pay their taxes and who contribute and want to participate in the American dream.
Why would any reasonable person support giving illegals a path to citizenship? Illegals have violated our laws beginning with their presence on American soil. Then they go on to purchase fraudulent ID, which would get an American arrested if caught. They drive without licenses and car insurance. Their false ID gives them access to any number of government programs they are not entitled to. What about the estimated 3 million foreign nationals who have obeyed the laws and regulations and have waited, sometimes for years to come into the USA? I do not believe in legalizing criminals and I don’t want them for neighbors and according to polls that have been taken for years, the majority of Americans don’t either.
Mass deportation would be cost prohibitive to the tune of over $200 billion dollars. Crime would dramatically increase. Neighbor would be pitted against neighbor. Corporations would continue to exploit illegal immigrants potentially creating a new slavery where there are absolutely no rights for the illegal worker, and that would have a much bigger impact on overall wages in the U.S. Human beings would be forced to live in the shadows of American society, completely segregated. The racial divide would increase. The likely negative consequences of such a move would be catastrophic for America and the American way of life. Why would crime increase because of mass deportations? How? Why? Why would neighbor be pitted against neighbor? How could corporations exploit illegals if they were all deported? The impact on wages would be they would rise, which is not a bad thing. If there were no illegals left then who would be living in the shadows? What racial divide, between what groups? How would mass deportations be catastrophic for Americans other than to markedly reduce traffic on our crowded freeways, which I would gladly welcome?
Simple supply and demand. Yes, supply and demand for corrupt employers who cheat workers by not paying them proper wages, who then become a burden on taxpayers who are forced to subsidize their existence here.
I don’t advocate open borders as an effective immigration policy. Open borders equals no immigration policy.
I will finish this later, but for now dantheman your argument is easily taken apart because you are wrong. You really should spend some time catching up on the facts before posting again.
May 7th, 2007 at 4:24 pmbrooke2, plenty to think about. But is any of it true? Where are your citations? What are the stats? It’s all pretty vague speculation. And ValianttheVenushater likes to toss in these big numbers without citations as well. She’s just hoping to get a little Latino-bashing going. (She probably is a groupie to certain Central American death squads.)
I don’t think you understand how the payroll system works. There’s under the table wages, and that’s a case of employer crime. And then there’s casual labor where taxes are withheld. And the government gets to keep this. How many illegals actually pay more in taxes than they’d be required if they were legal? Come on. Show me the stats before you start burning crosses on Hispanics front lawns.
May 7th, 2007 at 4:32 pm“VALIANTTHEHATER”
What a hater…
First of all, Native Americans went to war with one another this is true, but by a large there was no genocide. They had this thing called honor, where after fighting a war, they would usually make a treaty an uphold it. You might want to freshen up on your history, and while you’re at it, grab a dictionary and look up the definition to the word “genocide.” Wait, that might involve opening up a book and actually doing some research instead of just talking out of your ass. Let me help you my unenlightened co-latino.
Definitions of ‘genocide’ (jÄ•no-sÄ«d) – 1 definition – The American Heritage® Dictionary
Genocide (n.) The systematic and planned extermination of an entire national, racial, political, or ethnic group.
Whoops! You got punked!
I am also a Latino and proud Native Born American Citizen. My parents migrated here legally when they were very young, and they have been able to participate and work hard to achieve the American Dream. Their hard work has paid off and they live in relative comfort as middle class American “Citizens.” My parents did in fact assimilate into American culture. In fact I have very many relatives, most of them U.S. citizens, with a few choosing to remain legal residents instead, and they have all done just fine assimilating into the culture of America. That doesn’t mean we completely abandoned our Latino, specifically, Mexican American, heritage. We are proud to be both Americans and Latinos. Our allegiance however, lies with the U.S. We live our lives here, we love this country, and we want to preserve its true ideals.
You on the other hand don’t seem capable of understanding what America is all about. Perhaps you should attain some higher education and enlighten yourself with some facts and some history. Granted, if you went to college, you might actually become a progressive thinker and you might no longer recognize your current ignorant self. You would use facts instead of rhetoric when making an argument. You would learn how to think critically and rationally, and not get caught up in nationalist propaganda. Instead of having a knee jerk reaction by allowing your basest instincts to influence you, you would become thoughtful and deliberate. Dare I say, you might join the civilized?
As far you ranting about the “evil white man” you are once again way off base. My quote was exactly this:
“Lastly, some of you immigrant haters need to keep things in perspective. Unlike your immigrant ancestors who committed murderous genocide against the Native Americans to steal their lands, immigrants today want to become part of the American fabric, not to destroy it.”
No mention of the “evil white man” in there at all. In fact, it’s funny that it should bother you because the jab was directed specifically and exclusively to “some of you immigrant haters.”
I’m intelligent and humble enough to recognize that evil comes in all shapes, sizes, races, ethnic groups, religions, nationalities, genders, sexual orientation, and familial status. I would not and do not equate the white race with evil. Still, it is factually true that the European colonists, and then the early white male landowner only U.S. government committed the genocide of the Native Americans. You can’t argue with that fact. They don’t teach that at junior high or high school, but if you pursue a higher education, you’ll learn many things that will cause you to pause and change the way you look at the world and America.
I love America, its ideals, the opportunities it presents, the comfort, and the way of life. But, that doesn’t mean I have to turn a blind eye when corrupt and racist government officials, greedy corporations, and misguided Americans pursue unjust, inhumane, ineffective, and poorly thought out public policy. I owe it to my children, and I owe it to my country to be vigilant against tyranny and oppression.
As far as immigrants not assimilating, it is true that many immigrants find it difficult to assimilate, and many choose not to. I believe that we should educate immigrants on assimilating into American culture. We should teach them English, and teach them the better qualities of American culture. Likewise, we should teach Americans to be more tolerant of people who look differently, dress differently, and speak different languages. I’m from an agricultural town of about 180,000 in Southern California. Here’s a little bit of history. During the 1960s and 1970s, legal and illegal Hispanic immigrants started moving into this town. There was plenty of work, but not enough local workers to meet the demand, so immigrants filled that void. When the city started “browning”, there was a phenomenon known historically as “White Flight.” A vast majority of the town’s white residents, which numbered about 60,000 or so back then, started leaving town in a hurry. Interestingly enough, there was no surge in crime or delinquency during this “browning” period. There were plenty of jobs, so there was very little crime as well. The white left because they didn’t like the looks of the newcomers. They didn’t like their language, the way they looked, or the way they dressed. They left because the newcomers where not white. Had white folk come to fill the many job openings, there would have been no white flight. If you have any intelligence, you can probably guess what happened next. Since there were very few whites left, there was no American culture to assimilate into. So they continued living the way they always has. This phenomenon has happened in towns and cities all across America, whether in Detroit, when blacks started moving in to the city and whites moved to the suburbs, or in California where whites wanted to get away from Hispanics and moved from the plains to the hills. Cultural Assimilation by necessity requires acceptance and participation by both the natives and the newcomers. It’s a two way street.
The last point I want to make is regarding your claim about large numbers of “illegals” in American jails. Statistically speaking, the percentage of both illegal and legal immigrant jail population is far lower than the percentage of incarcerated native born American.
I hate to break it to you but when you present an argument deprived of the facts, you can only make an ass of yourself.
Educate yourself fool! You owe it to yourself and to this country.
May 7th, 2007 at 5:37 pm“BROOK2″
You’re entitled to your own opinion, but your not entitled to your own facts.
Some people, including politicians are openly advocating for the mass deportation of illegal immigrants. Look it up on Google.
Low skilled workers are losing their jobs overseas to places like China, with little or no labor standards or human rights, not to immigrant workers. This is a result of American trade policy and Republican backed tax cuts to corporations that move their operations over seas. Look it up.
The reason we should grant them a path to citizenship is that even though they are here illegally as you like to say, they are here because the system, lax immigration the business interests, and the demand for labor allowed them to come and obtain jobs. The overwhelming majority of them are law abiding, tax payers, who contribute with their back breaking labor to the American economy.
As far as crime increasing, neighbors being pitted against each other, etc, etc, the nation is divided on immigration on humanitarian as well as practical and economic terms. In fact, you can look this up if you want, a recent poll show that most Americans favor some kind of path to citizenship fro undocumented workers. It seems painfully obvious that I would have to spoon feed you all the facts, and you would probably get a really bad case of indigestion, not to mention it might be a futile effort. Instead I will say only this. Do your own damn research from reliable and accurate sources, and you’ll be surprised at what you find.
May 7th, 2007 at 5:51 pmSorry dantheman, but the onus is on you because you are one who is claiming that politicians are calling for the mass deportation of illegals. If that is true and you want to be believed, then you must name who they are.
Wrong again, dantheman, Americans are indeed losing jobs to illegals here as well as overseas. You must be aware of the meat packing industry, services in the hotel, motel industry, construction is another.
The reason we should grant them a path to citizenship is that even though they are here illegally as you like to say, they are here because the system, lax immigration the business interests, and the demand for labor allowed them to come and obtain jobs. The overwhelming majority of them are law abiding, tax payers, who contribute with their back breaking labor to the American economy.
It doesn’t matter why they are here, they are illegal, the law requires their deportation. The overwhelming majority of them are criminals who break our laws as I have already stated. Their contributions do not cover their costs of being here whether they are employed or not. The truth is that taxpayers subsidize their existence here, which means that Americans are shortchanging themselves in order to support millions of illegal aliens who have no business being here in the first place.
Oh you mean because a few people support giving illegals legalization that means neighbors will be pitted against each other? I think you are melodramatic as well as have trouble evaluating what you read.
In fact, you can look this up if you want, a recent poll show that most Americans favor some kind of path to citizenship fro undocumented workers.
Right, there are polls appearing all the time and most show that Americans are split about 70% – 80% Americans against illegal immigration and 20% – 30% for it. But, then, we really can’t be sure unless we know what questions are asked, can we?
It seems painfully obvious that I would have to spoon feed you all the facts, and you would probably get a really bad case of indigestion, not to mention it might be a futile effort. Instead I will say only this. Do your own damn research from reliable and accurate sources, and you’ll be surprised at what you find. Your arrogance is noted along with the absence of any facts that I have seen. In addition, you might take your own advice and use credible sources as well as asking for help on how to evaluate what you have read.
May 7th, 2007 at 6:52 pmdavid, if you want stats then ask me specific questions.
May 7th, 2007 at 7:00 pmSome of you have if half-right, the illegal employer is the problem that must be dealt with. Blanket amnesty will simply cause the amnestied to be displaced by new undocumented immigrants willing to work at a lower wage.
The solution it to grant amensty to only those who can bring a successful prosecution against an illegal employer. The more draconian the better.
If you are going to insist upon open-borders this is the only way to ensure workplace compliance.
May 7th, 2007 at 7:23 pmbrooke2, okay, why don’t we do the whole shebang in stats then.
1. How many immigrants are there illegally in America?
2. How do you support the charge that these aliens are engaged in criminal activity? That is, beyond simply being here without papers, which I don’t see as being the same thing.
3. How many aliens here illegal are directly related to legal residents? That is, how many are married to legal residents, have parents here or have children who are legally here? This is a perplexing question.
4. Is the quota system inherently racist? And just how fair & balanced is the immigration criteria and are the rules for claiming refugee truly reflective of what it means to be a refugee or does it serve a propaganda purpose?
5. What exactly is the cost to the US of having an illegal immigrant? Are there no benefits? Do immigrants do work US citizens won’t do? Would wages really go up? Or would businesses close down?
6. Is it not that Hispanics are Spanish-speaking Catholics that makes illegal immigration so hot? (The exception being Cuban exiles who were welcomed with open arms by the Reagan administration until they turned to drug-dealing and gun-running.)
7. What’s wrong with an immigration amnesty? The truth is that you can’t stop illegal immigration. That’s the history of the world. The whole history of English-speaking America is one of illegal immigration from stepping onto Plymouth Rock –the Pilgrims were in the wrong spot– the movement across the Ohio River, the Mexican-American War, and the slow takeover of Hawaii. If you want to look back in history, the Anglo-Saxons were illegal immigrants in Britain. So, I don’t think it makes much sense to say STOP, unless you’re will to spend a lot of money deporting people. And that will cost way more than an amnesty.
8. Why do they want to come here? Could it be America is disrupting their home countries? Seems to be the US Marines have constantly made little forays into Latin America on behalf of banana plantations, oil companies, copper mines, and ‘business friendly’ dictators. It seems hypocritical to sponsor and train death squads & torturers and not take in the very people fleeing from this business investment.
9. Can you explain why obeying immigration law is so important to you, but having the president uphold the US Constitution is not? Apparently we can be very forgiving of trading arms for hostages, warrantless wiretaps, or rigging elections. It seems to me the US Congress has the power to grant amnesty. And the rules of immigration are forever changing.
10. Why should goods and capital be allowed to cross borders freely, but not people? Should there be some kind of universal passport? Indeed, people aren’t even allowed to be tied to the land of their birth since the US insist all land must be ‘for sale’ to the highest bidder. Consider all the forced privatization in Iraq, the Amerindians of Latin America forced from their lands to benefit natural resource industries from the USA.
Fut! I don’t think this immigration issue is anything but old fashion fascist propaganda designed to distract people from the real story of globalization and to give them their two minutes of hate. Shame on you and all your kind.
May 7th, 2007 at 8:57 pmUmh, why even speak about deporting illegal immigrants when Dobbs knows that the North American Union (NAU) is being formed?
May 7th, 2007 at 9:27 pmYeah, that’s right. Old Saywho should be pro-amnesty as he believes we’re going to become one big union.
May 7th, 2007 at 9:41 pmBrooke2,
For the sake of entertaining myself with you and your silly and feeble attempts to undermine my factually supported arguments, I’ll give you a little bit of what you’re asking for. Mind you, I have a busy life, and I don’t like to waste time arguing with fools who don’t do research, but here are a few bones for you.
Article that cites USA Today/Gallup poll where 78% of Americans support giving illegal immigrants a path to citizenship:
http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/daily/local/48761.php
Article regarding costs of deporting all illegal immigrants:
http://www.ilw.com/articles/2005,1128-goyle.pdf
Link to google so you can search for reliable sources on immigration
http://www.google.com/
May 7th, 2007 at 10:05 pmLiberals and Progressive, quick to defend illegals and not so quick to defend America’s working poor, haven’t figured out the politics. The losers are these working poor and they know it. If you want to win an election, get their support. You won’t get that by championing the rights of illegal immigrants. They lost their jobs to illegal and any other job they can get pays less because of the illegals. Progressive and liberals need to show that they care about those things important to Americans.
May 7th, 2007 at 10:23 pmWhere did I last see a statement like this? Oh, wait! Of course, on a recruitment poster for the KKK during the Jim Crow era.
Illegal immigrants stole the jobs of the working poor? Holy Moly, them illegals must be everywhere then. NOT. The working poor voted for Reagan, Bush Sr, and Bush Jr. They killed their own jobs by helping give birth to Free Trade and Globalization. The working poor are anti-union, anti-affirmative action, and anti-immigration.
Immigration is NOT the problem. The problem is we have trade agreement that don’t help us and don’t help the developing countries. The agreements are designed to provide cheap labour for multi-national corporations and access to the high NA markets. It isn’t working.
I favour a mixed economy. And that includes a mixed tariff and trade policy. If a nation can show it has sound environmental policy and protects workers’ rights, I say let them trade with us. And if not, put up the barriers on any good that doesn’t meet the benchmarks.
And I favour a universal passport that allows us to travel freely from country to country. We should be permitted to work, but have to pay for it. And our rights should be in no way diminished.
May 7th, 2007 at 11:12 pmThe right wingers here seem to forget that the FTAs of the past 15 years has increased undocumented aliens. And it interesting that all these “America is for Americans ” all have names like Schumacher or Reilly. Not exactly American, now is it?
May 7th, 2007 at 11:31 pmDavid, don’t expect to make much hay calling a card carrying Berkeley Liberal a klukluxer. It was a heads up before you become the fringe. Why so quick to defend the illegal and no cry for the displaced black, brown and white American? Fringers pick an issue and jump up and down and scream and shout while being oblivious to all else. ‘Tis they who attract the nut cases. Seen in hanging around lately? The undocs are here because someone is making more money hiring them then they could hiring US citizens, and because their own government sold them out. (Notice, I said their government sold them out. Might want to remember that for future reference.) That doesn’t speak to well of the greedy grubby bastards doing the hiring, does it? But, that’s how Leland made his. Americans hiring illegal Mexicans is not going to solve Mexico’s problem. Nor ours.
May 7th, 2007 at 11:45 pmMost illegals could be deported if America chose to do so. I hate the right wing bleeding heart liberals harping that we have to reward illegals because the USa can’t deport 20 million illegals. WE CAN deport them. There are millions of people from countries all over the world that are “more deserving of compassion” as in from poorer countries.
Mexico is actually a fairly wealthy country. They have oil. Their people have food. Unemployment is low, most illegals had jobs in Mexico before invading the USA. People from South American countries actually ILLEGALLY INVADE MEXICO to work because it is a better place to live than their country. If caught invading on the southern border of Mexico they are pretty much just shot.
Children in India are literally starving to death. Seriously. Why are they less deserving of LEGALLY immigrating to the USA? Who gets to play God with which child dies and which child just gets a slightly better life?
We should not reward criminal illegal behavior at the expense of the children that are even more deserving of our compassion. Breaking in line, pushing and shoving … Might Makes Right….. have any of you even looked at the condition of the people on the waiting lists that want to immigrate legally?
May 8th, 2007 at 12:09 amI think that it is interesting that someone commented on the cost to deport illegal immigrants. “Maybe lou can volunteer some his multi-million dollar salary to fund the cause?” My wife works for a county hospital in the State of Arizona (Maricopa Integrated Health Services) and has told me how the system works. I can assure you that Lou can more afford to deport every person who is in this county illegally then he could to front the bill being spent at just this one hospital. Maybe we should enforce the law that states legal citizens or approved guest workers can only get paid by businesses. Fine the businesses that break the law, like Lou has suggested. And maybe we should use our tax dollars to only pay for medical cost incurred by legal tax paying citizens. At the hospital my wife works at they ran out of funding for some programs, so they dropped the program to assist elderly retired citizens of this country who paid taxes and fought in wars to protect the country. But low income families that are not even citizens of this county still get full coverage for all their medical needs. Now deportation is probably very expensive, but can it really cost more than not fixing the system while exploiting it’s services for people who do not contribute to the income of that system?
May 8th, 2007 at 1:43 amIllegals, hell. Let’s deport all the Republicans. We can give them their own country–an entire nation of creepy-assed white guys.
May 8th, 2007 at 6:54 amLiberal that agrees with Dobbs. Against illegal immigration, for LEGAL immigration.
May 8th, 2007 at 9:38 amWhat Dobbs seems to be doing is answering people who claim it is impossible to expel most of illegal aliens in this country. The bigger question, which he does not appear to address is should we? I think the argument that we do not have the capability is not helpful since solutions stemming from it will necessarily treat the aliens as pests to be mitigated.
May 8th, 2007 at 11:36 am> I feel no resentment towards US Immigration, simply because when I called them, a US Imm. Officer apologized and told me to get married to an American, that’s the only way I can get a document, as of this moment.
You always have to appreciate honesty.
>Comment by Michael F — May 7, 2007 @ 11:40 am
It can takes months to get a green card and permission to reenter the country even when married to a US citizen.
The GOP has cut the government to the bone in many places and the result is that it is unable to function: long processing time in immigration, food inspections undone, regulations not enforced, etc. The GOP only wants a government that fields an army and enforces pro-business laws and they seem to be realizing that dream.
May 8th, 2007 at 12:02 pm# 194, david,
1. No one knows how many illegal aliens are in the USA, but estimates range from 12-20 million and recently the figure of 30 million has been used.
2. I addressed that above. Illegal aliens first of all violate our sovereignty by being here in the first place; most purchase false ID that ranges from using Social Security numbers of Americans either living or dead, and beyond to purchasing birth certificates of dead people, phony driver’s licenses, etc.; illegals often drive without driver’s licenses, illegals often have no car insurance, illegals are often paid under the table. All of these offenses if committed by an American citizen would have him or her arrested and serving time in some cases.
3. It does not matter if illegals are related to American citizens or legal immigrants or have children who are citizens. Illegal aliens are illegal and the law states that they must be deported. The citizen children of illegals have the choice of staying with legal relatives in the USA or the common sense option of accompanying their parents back to the illegals’ home country. This is not perplexing at all.
4. All countries must have a quota system of one kind or another. For a country to give carte blanche access to everyone would quickly lead to its ruin. The US immigration policy now is based on family reunification that has led to millions of poor uneducated people given legal immigrant’s status that has added a heavy burden on taxpayers financially and could impact the quality of the lives of Americans depending upon the rate of population growth.
a. I don’t know much about the refugee part of immigration except that our system has been abused and it is driven for the most part by church groups or those who profit from it.
5. See #179 that I posted yesterday for the answers.
6. I have not come across anything resembling Hispanic Spanish speaking Catholics regarding immigration period. I have problems with illegal immigration because it undermines the rule of law in this country and makes a mockery of what defines us as a country, which is our sovereignty. If we lose that then we have nothing. This is the core of it for me and then add the multiple negatives that illegals bring to our society. It is a no brainer for anyone with average intelligence.
7. Of course we can stop illegal immigration. We are a country governed by the rule of law. Illegal immigration is out of control because our country’s leaders refuse to enforce the laws.
8. There are likely many reasons why illegals come here and it doesn’t matter, it is against the law.
9. I’m not sure what you mean by this question. Could you clarify it please?
10. Bestowing amnesty on millions of illegal aliens is wrong for many reasons and if it happens the sheer numbers alone will change our country fundamentally.
* Rewarding people that break our laws is insane and will only encourage more foreigners to come and do the same thing. It will send a message around the world that everyone is welcome.
* The approximately 20 million newly legalized immigrants will have immediate access to a long list of government programs that were initially created to help Americans in need.
* In addition, as the law stands now the newly legalized immigrants will have the right to bring in an unlimited number of relatives who will receive legal status as well who will also have the same rights. The key here is “unlimited numbers” that will create an endless chain of immigrants that would quickly change our country into a welfare state that would quickly spiral into a third world country.
10. I’m not sure why anyone would advocate for the free movement of people across our borders. Why, 9/11 alone should give everyone reason enough to question the stupidity of such a proposal?
Furthermore, it strikes me as positively insane that any reasonable person living in today’s world of terrorism, drug smuggling, human trafficking, beheadings, the fear of dirty bombs, etc., would think that open borders should exist for any reason.
Can you tell me why you would even think that people moving freely across borders should even be conceptualized let alone enacted?
May 8th, 2007 at 2:30 pmHoly cow, there’s a lot of looney, racist rhetoric going on here. The problem is as Thom Hartman would say, is an illegal employment problem, not an illegal alien problem. The other problem? “Hey, don’t pay attention to the corporations, the administration or Al Qaeda! Look over here, it’s a shiny new object! One you can all dump all of your problems on! It’s easy, just shift all of your economic stress at the feet of the undocumented illegals! It’s a win-win situation, first, they won’t complain, or we’ll deport them without their children. The other win is hey, they are brown and we all know since they’re brown people, it’ll be easy to lay this at their feet, that’s what we do! What d’ya say?!” Unbelievable.
May 8th, 2007 at 4:46 pmOK, dantheman, re: # 197. Thank you for providing the link, but the only fact that this proves is the report that a poll took place. There are dozens of polls regarding illegal immigration. I have been looking at them for about 5 years. The majority show that as I said 70% – 80% of Americans do not approve of illegal immigration.
Besides it is impossible to determine what the poll proves if anything because we do not have access to the questions asked. Polls are easily manipulated in a myriad of ways depending upon the agenda and the integrity of those involved.
The report shown on the second link is interesting, beginning with the title Deporting the Undocumented with (my) emphasis on the word “undocumented” which is a word that pro-illegal groups use instead of the correct term “illegal aliens”.
This started when I stated that I was not aware of any group advocating mass deportations, the term you used in # 169. You countered with, Some people, including politicians are openly advocating for the mass deportation of illegal immigrants. Look it up on Google.
Followed by my response, #191 Sorry dantheman, but the onus is on you because you are one who is claiming that politicians are calling for the mass deportation of illegals. If that is true and you want to be believed, then you must name who they are.
Which led to your # 197 and the report entitled Deporting the Undocumented A Cost Assessment. After skimming a bit of the report I see where you came up with the term, “mass deportation” that is used incorrectly in the report.
The term, “mass deportation” or “deportations” brings to mind visions of masses of illegals being loaded on buses, trains, and planes by the millions before ceremoniously deported to their home countries. Which is a scenario that would never happen. I explained earlier how best to deport illegals through attrition.
May 8th, 2007 at 6:16 pmThis voter (Democrat, Republican, Independent — who cares??) TOTALLY agrees with Lou. Illegal is “Illegal”. What is people don’t understand about the word “illegal”?? We have a system for people to come into this country legally and if people aren’t going to do it, then they need to get out and stay out. If we weren’t so busy dealing with the “illegals” we would have the resources to expand the legal programs. But then let’s not even go into the cost of all the extraordinary burdens the illegals bring with them. That money could solve the common cold.
May 8th, 2007 at 9:15 pmThe new president of France says that France can not take on the misery of the world. We can not in America either, the price of deportation would be cheaper than free welfare, medical and education benefits. Look at what illegal and legal migration has done to France and Britan, with the riots, friends we are not far behind.
May 8th, 2007 at 9:15 pmI agree with most comments, but I add. Lets kick them all out. Better yet, lets go back to the original Ilegal Immigrants and kick them out too, along with their offspring and their offspring. This is our country, who the hell invited those pilgrims in the first place. Send them back to Europe.
May 9th, 2007 at 11:22 amThis is America! Home of The Brave, Land of the Free…If you are White!
May 9th, 2007 at 11:28 amSend the Pilgrims and their offspring back to where they came from. How do we do that, simple, lets use this idiot, Lou Dobbs’ plan and confiscate all
their wealth they stole while invading our land and use that to send them back!
White Europeans are the biggest terrorists of all, look at all the killings they have made for pure greed.
I apologize to those that don’t fit the mold, but honestly those are a minority so small that all would fit in New Jersey and have land left vacant.
May 9th, 2007 at 11:39 amKRYSTAL SERRANO’S KEYNOTE SPEECH | GED Programs | GED FOR UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS »
May 08, 2007
LOU DOBBS ON SIXTY MINUTES
By Profesor Martin Danenberg “El Quijote del GEDâ€
Lou Dobbs was on 60 Minutes last night espousing the issues that are important to his campaign to help the middle class. He was confronted about the fact that his news telecast is full of his own opinions (I chose telecast instead of show). I have long felt that newspapers and the media should give people a chance to read different opinions without knowing who expressed those ideas. We Americans are ant-Giuliani, anti-Hillary, anti-lots of people and we should have the opportunity to absorb ideas without the personality of the person being called into question. For example, if Hillary Clinton had a plan to save us four times the amount of money that we are saving in current tax refunds or savings, wouldn’t we support her? This is what is wrong with Lou Dobbs. Someone is paying a lot of money to build him up larger than he is, but this happens in sports, Hollywood, and everywhere on the globe. If there is an abundance of one side of an issue in the news, it should be balanced by having someone else present the contrasting opinion and not Lou Dobbs.
Here is an idea for all Lou Dobbs fans and Lou Dobbs himself. Much of his reporting is wrong about important domestic issues. Once upon a time, doctors treated most ulcers with anti-acids medications. Now they treat most ulcers with antibiotics, because a doctor proved that all doctors were wrong. Once upon a time, medical science believed that the heart does not heal itself. Now those scientists know they were wrong. Much of what all reporters are reporting falls into the “Once upon a time†level of fairy tale. We can tell you the savings to your car by changing your oil according to the manufacturer’s standards and we can easily estimate the savings to the tax payer by educating people. The savings is in the billions, no hundreds of billions. Nobody has focused on the
GED issue across our large nation, an issue that has tens of millions who are in need. This is where we have gone wrong in the last 41 years since the GED became civilianized. This is where Lou Dobbs’ reporting has gone wrong. Oh, his shows are factually correct, just as the doctors were correct in their time, but he is far off the mark.
My fellow Americans, you have been looking for relief with your taxes for many years, but I tell you now that the greatest relief within the tax structure that exists is to invest in most of the 40 million adults who do not have a GED and keep them away from jail and extremely high costs related to jail and social services. Lou Dobbs is just another “bad†leader who is helping us waste our money. All of the social service agencies at the local, state, and national level have to be reorganized and you can throw in the services provided on Native American reservations too.
The American Teacher magazine in May 2007 pointed out that there will be 700.000 students who will drop out of school and cutting the dropout rate in half would save the American taxpayer $46 billion per year. The article goes on to cite strategies for keeping youth in school and says nothing or nada about GED. The savings mentioned is only the tip of the iceberg. We can effectively cut taxes by mobilizing those who are already costing us those billions and more toward the GED, better jobs, more justice for people, higher education, better families and churches, and a stronger nation that can compete better in the global economy that people tell us about. Make the GED test free for everyone in the United States (40 million adults need a GED) and can see the investment pay off in greatly reduced taxes. I do not think that the liberal Democrats and Republicans of the 1960’s and 1970’s really did what was needed to help the American people in a revolutionary manner, but the conservatives and Republicans who have dominated American politics since then, by their collective ignorance, have made matters worse. Even though there may have been some tax relief, it could have been much greater than it is. So now is the time for liberal and conservative and Democrat and Republican to unite in investing in everyone in America. Have you heard Lou Dobbs comment on the GED issue? I wrote an article about him and sent the article to his staff. Maybe we will find out if Lou Dobbs is “spineless†like journalists he has criticized. He objects to “fair and balanced†journalism and insists on “objective†journalism. Maybe Dobbs, Sean Hannity Brit Hume, Keith Olbermann, and Bill O’Reilly should team up and present my information to the American people. The American people deserve better than those men are giving. Raising the minimum wage will help the poor, but it will only produce moderate gains. Cutting the dropout rate is much more significant, but it will help less than one percent of the people each year. I propose cutting the dropout rate in half (350,000), but helping 400,000 more adults from 21 years of age and up to obtain the GED. Will people learn about this on the Lou Dobbs show?
I BELIEVE THAT THERE ARE TENS OF MILLIONS WHO WATCH THE LOU DOBBS SHOW WHO EITHER NEED THE GED OR WHOSE CHILDREN OR NEIGHBORS CHILDREN NEED THE GED AND LOU DOBBS IS NOT HELPING THEM. THERE ARE EVEN A MILLION OR MORE OF THOSE PEOPLE IN THE MIDDLE CLASS, TOO, WHO MUST WONDER WHY THERE IS NO HELP FOR THEIR CHILDREN AND NEIGHBORS.
MARTIN N. DANENBERG
7 BLAZER DRIVE
ISLANDIA, NEW YORK 11749
631-348-1341
GEDHOTLINE@AOL.COM
http://www.ahorre.com/ged
http://www.geocities.com/gedhotline
Profesor Martin Dane
May 10th, 2007 at 7:58 pm