Rice: ‘Iraqis Need To Know That We Are Not Looking To Leave Iraq’
Rice: ‘Iraqis Need To Know That We Are Not Looking To Leave Iraq’
In an interview last night on the Charlie Rose Show, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice pointedly said, “[O]ur friends in the [Middle East] need to know and the Iraqis need to know that we are not looking to leave Iraq.” “Ever?” Rose asked. Rice responded, “We are not going to leave an Iraq that is not capable of defending itself and with a foundation for future reconciliation.”
Rose then asked Rice if she believed she’ll have the support of the American people to continue the war. Rice claimed the American people are looking for “progress.” Rose replied, “But nobody can answer the question: If it doesn’t happen, what?” Avoiding discussion of a Plan B, Rice answered, “Charlie, because as the President said to you, we’re focused on having it happen.”
Watch it:
In the interview, Rose also noted that Rice once worked for President George H.W. Bush, who was “famous for insisting there be an exit strategy. [But] no one seems to know what’s the exit strategy [now],” he said. Rice responded that Iraq is “a long-term proposition.”
When Rose asked Rice if the administration was “looking for a strategy for the United States to exit from Iraq.” Rice answered, “No, we’re looking for a strategy that is going to do what we went there to do.”
Last month, Rose similarly asked President Bush, “Can you imagine a circumstance in which you would have to say, we did our best, good men and good women sacrificed their life, but we can’t in the end do what we want to do, and we have to leave?” “No,” Bush replied. “I can’t imagine that, because I believe that with time, this Iraqi government is going to be able to reconcile and move forward.”
Transcript:
ROSE: Let me make this point. You worked with President Bush 41 at the National Security Council for him. He was famous for insisting there be an exit strategy. No one seems to know what’s the exit strategy.
RICE: Well, in this case, because we know that this is a long- term proposition –
ROSE: On the part of participation by American forces on the ground?
RICE: Let me just finish this point, which is that on the long term, Iraq’s evolution to a state that is fully democratic and fully capable of defending itself, that’s a long-term proposition.
[...]
ROSE: I sense — and you can tell me this is absolutely wrong — that the Administration and you as the point person are looking for a strategy for the United States to exit from Iraq.
RICE: No, we’re looking for a strategy that is going to do what we went there to do, which is to help the Iraqis create a more stable environment, lay a foundation for democracy and national reconciliation to evolve in Iraq, and to leave an Iraq or to have an Iraq that is able to defend itself and secure itself.
[...]
RICE: So our friends in the neighborhood need to know and the Iraqis need to know that we are not looking to leave Iraq. That’s not why this President went into Iraq and it’s not how –
ROSE: Ever?
RICE: Charlie, we are not going to leave an Iraq that is not capable of defending itself and with a foundation for future reconciliation.
ROSE: Do you believe you’ll have the support of the American people to do that?
RICE: I think that the American people are looking for progress and so are we.
[...]
ROSE: But nobody can answer the question: If it doesn’t happen, what?
RICE: Charlie, because as the President said to you, we’re focused on having it happen.
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Well said. Take that Zawahiri and your pal Harry Reid.
May 8th, 2007 at 12:55 pmThe Republicans speak on Plan B in Iraq:
"By the time we get to September or October, members are going to want to know how well this is working, and if it isn't, what's Plan B."
House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-OH), May 6, 2007.
"I have no Plan B."
John McCain, on his support for the Iraq surge, April 13, 2007.
"Plan B was to make Plan A work."
Joint Chiefs Chairman General Peter Pace, on Iraq, March 5, 2007.
"I don't think you go to Plan B. You work with Plan A."
May 8th, 2007 at 12:57 pmSecretary of State Rice, asked what the U.S. should do if the Iraqi government does not live up to its assurances, March 5, 2007.
Rice, the people run the government and tell you what to do, not the other way around. STFU, twit.
May 8th, 2007 at 12:57 pmCondi, can you explain the aluminum tubes again?
May 8th, 2007 at 12:57 pmMy God, this is utterly disgusting. Say all you want about the distinctions between desert and jungle, trolls, but the political foundation being laid for this debacle makes the parallels between Iraq and Vietnam all the stronger.
Will we ever learn???
May 8th, 2007 at 12:57 pmGee, the Iraqis ALL want the USA out of their country. Just wait until every Iraqi is an insurgent.
May 8th, 2007 at 12:57 pmWe're not leaving...
...ever.
I think that's what she meant to say.
May 8th, 2007 at 12:57 pmPentagon tells 35,000: Prepare to deploy
May 8th, 2007 at 12:58 pmAP - 4 minutes ago WASHINGTON - The Pentagon has notified more than 35,000 Army soldiers to be prepared to deploy to Iraq beginning this fall, a move that would allow commanders to maintain the ongoing buildup of troops through the end of the year if needed.,
So is the increased violence against American troops a sign of progress, or is the Iraqi government falling apart a sign of progress?
May 8th, 2007 at 12:58 pmZawahiri wants our troops in Iraq forever, so that al Qaeda can keep killing our troops.
Patrick1 is a terrorist sympathizer. Even worse, he is plotting with the terrorists to keep our troops in harms way. Patrick1 is a traitor to this country and should be hung for it.
May 8th, 2007 at 1:00 pm"we’re looking for a strategy that is going to do what we went there to do.â€
we've all known that... thanks for finally admitting it...
Production-Sharing Agreement (PSA)
May 8th, 2007 at 1:00 pmWhat is the exact mission?
May 8th, 2007 at 1:00 pmthese people are just fascinating: now the reason we went into iraq was to help it realize democracy??
wait a minute, i don't remember anyone saying back in spring of '03 that the entire point of the invasion was to bring democracy. if that was the case, NOBODY would have supported it EXCEPT the most extreme right wing faction of the GOP. in other words, a cabal.
May 8th, 2007 at 1:02 pmThey don't have an exit strategy because they never planned on leaving Iraq. It was to be our 51st state since our oil was there.
May 8th, 2007 at 1:02 pm"What is the exact mission?
Comment by Edward — May 8, 2007 @ 1:00 pm"
OIL!
May 8th, 2007 at 1:03 pmSounds like she agrees with the aptly named DICK Morris who wants to keep us in Iraq to make the terrorists happy and so that it's more convenient to kill American soldiers.
This woman must have been trained to avoid answering questions I swear.
May 8th, 2007 at 1:03 pmToo bad they don't really know what they set out to do when they went there. And, it's not like they weren't warned of what would happen after the easy mission was accomplished. They messed up the final part and refuse to own up to it. Now it is someone else's fault -- always someone else's fault. Face it, folks, W and those that don't get pushed or jump are not going to change anything with regard to Iraq. Nothing. Accept it and decide what you want to do about it. Then, try and convince your Representative and Senators. Do so, if only for me, because my pleas here in Georgia will always fall on deft ears, at least as to my Senators.
p.s. To those of you who support W and the rest, take a deep breath and think about how you might react when say a Democrat sits in the White House and this type of drivel masqueradiing as policy is shoved down your throught. Believe me, you are not going to like it any more than I am. But remember, they'll always say you started it.
May 8th, 2007 at 1:03 pmComment by BlueArkansas — May 8, 2007 @ 12:57 pm
I doubt very much of the fighting takes place in the desert. American air forces and artillery would make an open space like the desert a killing field. Most of the combat seems to be occurring in urbanized areas, where the air and arty are neutralized.
May 8th, 2007 at 1:04 pmThere's Kinda-Sleezy-Lice with her dead, soul-less eyes, lying right through her teeth.
This woman has no soul.
May 8th, 2007 at 1:04 pmAnd, if 70% of the American public WANT us to leave, f*ck em, right Condi?
May 8th, 2007 at 1:04 pm“No, we’re looking for a strategy that is going to do what we went there to do.â€
what, find those nonexistent WMDs?
the Iraqis don't need to know that, Condi - they want us to leave...
May 8th, 2007 at 1:05 pmendless war for endless peace - or however Orwell wrote it. That's the plan of these criminals in D.C......don't be fooled, they DO want to stay forever.. that's my opinion.
The only way we'll have peace and prosperity in this country is if we change our national policy from one of national OF-fense to one of National DE-fense - and get out of Iraq and the other 130+ nations where our military is based....
Some reading on this:
"National Defense vs National Offense"
May 8th, 2007 at 1:05 pmhttp://www.populistamerica.com/national_defense_vs__national_offense
Poor Patrick1trickpony. He's so desperate to distract that he keeps posting the same line over and over in every thread. It's a sign that the GOP and the Neo-con revolution is in its death throes.
Why does Rice's line sound a lot like "You're doing a heck of a job, Brownie"? Bush has always sounded most confident, most adamant just moments before he's changed direction, cut and run.
And now Bush and Rice are following Osama bin Laden's script and they're pushing deeper into the quagmire. They're bankrupting the US treasury, breaking the US military, and destroying America's influence in the wider world. They must be celebrating Bush's veto over at al-Qaeda's HQ.
May 8th, 2007 at 1:06 pmWhat Rice said reinforces the comparison between Iraq and Vietnam, when those who worked in the Kennedy and Johnson administrations believed that the United States was going to stay in Vietnam until "the job was done". It also proves that David Halberstam was right when he wrote in his best selling classic the Best and the Brightest that "the difference between intelligence and wisdom, between the abstract quickness and verbal facility which the [Kennedy] team exuded, and true wisdom, which is the product of hard-won, often bitter experience. Wisdom for a few of them came AFTER Vietnam." One wonders if Condeleezza Rice will, like Robert McNamara, be issuing her mea culpas only after the Iraq War/occupation becomes a distant memory for the American people.
May 8th, 2007 at 1:07 pmI think the correct interpretation is:
We're not leaving until all the oil is gone,
May 8th, 2007 at 1:08 pmthen we'll go
Getting Rocked In Iraq - great video from BOTH sides WOW
2 points-of-view taken at the same time. 1st part is from inside the US vehicle. 2nd part (probably a repost) is from the Iraqi stone throwers.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=132_1178529835
looks very much like your not welcome - But hey thats only my view
May 8th, 2007 at 1:10 pm"We Are Not Looking To Leave Iraq" What's this "we" shit.
May 8th, 2007 at 1:10 pm“No, we’re looking for a strategy that is going to do what we went there to do.â€
It's soooo reassuring to know that 4+ years later, the Bush
War Machine is still trying to figure out what to do...
Heavy sigh...
May 8th, 2007 at 1:10 pmHERES A GREAT READ
A canny Vietnam veteran wrote me the below but requested that it be posted without attribution. I thought it well worth sharing.
http://www.juancole.com/ 2007/ 05/ guest-comment-iraq-prognosis-canny.html
May 8th, 2007 at 1:11 pmI've an idea...
Rather than allowing the administration to express their delays in terms of months staying in Iraq, let's force them to acknowledge the human cost:
Instead of 5 more months to "see if it's working," let's use the casualty averages and have the republicans ask for more dead troops (rather than months) before they change plans.
That will put the foot-dragging republican chickenhawk bastards in perspective. "Two more months? Don't you mean 140 more dead troops?" (Since they care not a wit for the Iraqi civilian population, I haven't included the civilian averages but they would be staggering.)
Let's add a dose of reality for the cushy republican cowards and see if they survive the next election...
May 8th, 2007 at 1:11 pmI like this part:
When Rose asked Rice if the administration was “looking for a strategy for the United States to exit from Iraq.†Rice answered, “No, we’re looking for a strategy that is going to do what we went there to do.â€
Anybody have the slightest idea what it is that we went there to do in the first place?? The reasoning has changed more times than a runway supermodel. I can no longer recall.
May 8th, 2007 at 1:12 pmQuestion: How is Iraq supposed to defend itself from Civil War?
You know, the way the Sunni insurgents and Shiite fanatics go at each other, you'd actually have to be really f*cking stupid to attack the country and have them focus their collective anger on you.
Oh yeah... Oops.
May 8th, 2007 at 1:12 pmThat link again
http://www.juancole.com/2007/05/guest-comment-iraq-prognosis-canny.html
May 8th, 2007 at 1:12 pmcondi is our best ambassador promoting endless war for bushwa.
May 8th, 2007 at 1:13 pmshe will like prison. maybe they will have a piano and she can learn enough to play the blues.
Condi can go suck a shoe.
May 8th, 2007 at 1:15 pmi think what she meant to say was:
"But I will tell you this, the benchmark that I’m looking at — the oil law is important"
May 8th, 2007 at 1:15 pm“We are not going to leave an Iraq that is not capable of defending itself and with a foundation for future reconciliation.â€
______________________________________
Is Rice saying the Iraqis are INCAPABLE of defending Iraq now? If so, why is that? Or is it that they AREN'T defending Iraq? Is this because they are too busy killing each other? Is it because the American-insurgent crossfire is detrimental to doing so? If either of these last two questions are answered with "yes", then why are we still there?
May 8th, 2007 at 1:18 pm#18:
So true. Unfortunately, that whole "desert v. jungle" nonsense is the kind of simplistic claptrap I see neocons muster in defense of Iraq as a conflict incomparable to Vietnam.
Thank you for sharpening my point!
May 8th, 2007 at 1:18 pm5 more months to "see if it's working," equals out to at least 350+ killed US soldiers.
Let's see John McClown and Boener demand or exhort patience to allow "at least 350 more violent deaths so we can tell if the mismanagement is working."
Even the more savvy news reporters could calculate on-the-spot the numbers of what it really means-someone's family member isn't coming home- when republican cowards talk 'months' instead of violent deaths.
Chickenhawks whine and real patriots die.
May 8th, 2007 at 1:21 pmYay! Let know the insurgents that they'll have fun forever planting IED's.
Looks like insurgent is the job with better perspectives of future as of today in Iraq.
May 8th, 2007 at 1:23 pmWell said. Take that Zawahiri and your pal Harry Reid.
Comment by Patrick1 — May 8, 2007 @ 12:55 pm
Patrick stretches the depths of his imagination and this is the best he can come up with?! It just shows that he's only interested in posting first and trying to stir up crap. This troll can be completely ignored that's for sure.
May 8th, 2007 at 1:23 pmThe Iraqi government is going on vacation, and the oil contracts aren't signed. Bush has to stall.
May 8th, 2007 at 1:23 pmIsn't there a shoe store in Bagdad where this idiot can go, and never return?
May 8th, 2007 at 1:24 pmFour years, 3300 dead SMs and half a trillion dollars squandered and they're looking for a strategy. Lord save us.
May 8th, 2007 at 1:27 pmUnfortunately, TOO many anti-war "types" want to leave before giving the full complement of the surge a chance to succeed. With "Tokyo" Reid leading the surrender, it's no wonder Dems have not been able to improve their national security image.
May 8th, 2007 at 1:28 pmi'm real glad she got that major GAP in her teeth fixed...
at least it's easier to LOOK at her...
break time's over... back out to finish mowing...
May 8th, 2007 at 1:30 pm...
Not Canadian - A bit off topic, but can anyone explain why France voted for the more conservative candidate? How in the world did that happen?
May 8th, 2007 at 1:31 pm#
Unfortunately, TOO many anti-war “types†want to leave before giving the full complement of the surge a chance to succeed. With “Tokyo†Reid leading the surrender, it’s no wonder Dems have not been able to improve their national security image.
Comment by valiant venus — May 8, 2007 @ 1:28 pm
#
So is the increased violence against American troops a sign of progress, or is the Iraqi government falling apart a sign of progress?
May 8th, 2007 at 1:31 pmanother planet heard from.....
May 8th, 2007 at 1:32 pm#45 -- Give it a break. Your guys failed to surge in the beginning, thus the fucked up quagmire we find ourselves in. At a certain point, VERY EARLY ON, it was too late for a surge to work, the damage had been done and ethinic tensions needed to be resolved the way they typically are involved. You guys failed to recognize or even acknowledge that this was the case. Now, you claim others are responsible. Face it, you borke it and you own it and the cost is having to make deals with people you don't like. SUCK IT UP and let's get on with that prosperity everyone keeps talking about.
May 8th, 2007 at 1:32 pmBecause you are a stupid fu*k.
May 8th, 2007 at 1:33 pmHey Condi, Henry Waxman will have you under oath shortly, the world will see what a liar you are. As a black man, I want you to know Condi, you make me sick. Damn you and your sorry ass parents, may they burn in hell. I can't way to see you on c-span, the lies are over.
May 8th, 2007 at 1:34 pmWhy do you or any of the other crazy fu*king trolls here think that the 7th escalation will be any different than the first 6?
May 8th, 2007 at 1:34 pmHA! The Dems have a problem with their national security image?!?! That's the funniest thing I've read all day.
Having our troops in IRAQ doesn't help our national security! The Repukes are setting us up for another major attack on American soil...all to steal oil and plunder the US Treasury. Traitor.
May 8th, 2007 at 1:35 pm#45 princess valiant...
May 8th, 2007 at 1:35 pmNot like the current regime has a good national security image, it was a clerk in photo shop who caught on to half a dozen terrorist suspects.....
Valiant: "How in the world did that happen?"
1. Fear and loathing of Muslim immigrants.
2. ESS electronic voting machines.
May 8th, 2007 at 1:36 pmThat's it. I'm done carrying the water.
Today is the day when I hate everything. I'm friggin' broken and bruised decayed to the core. Long time ago I tried to believe and be just like you, but lost all my faith. Found a new faith, tried to save a small part of me, but the layers of hate dismembered me. Now despise all of you.
My damaged skin is wearing thin.
May 8th, 2007 at 1:37 pmFred: "Damn you and your sorry ass parents, may they burn in hell."
Fred, I have read that most of her family are liberal democrats. Strange, huh?
May 8th, 2007 at 1:38 pmSo, what is the Democratic plan for Iraq? details...
furthermore, what is the Democratic Plan for Iraq, if we leave Iraq and then Iraq turns into a humanitarian disaster?
will Liberals demand that we go back into Iraq like they are demanding that we go into Darfur?
why are Liberals racist towards Iraqis? why do they want to help people from Darfur, but not Iraqis?
why do Liberals want to help children from Darfur, but not the children of Iraq?
why are Liberals such great racists?
May 8th, 2007 at 1:38 pmvery dumb terrorist suspects, I might add........
May 8th, 2007 at 1:39 pmNot Canadian - A bit off topic, but can anyone explain why France voted for the more conservative candidate? How in the world did that happen?
Comment by valiant venus — May 8, 2007 @ 1:31 pm
#
The conservative party has been in power in France for 12 years. Nothing has changed. What do you think of Sarkozy's statement that the US should lead the fight on global warming?
May 8th, 2007 at 1:40 pm#56.....
May 8th, 2007 at 1:41 pmwild night after the queens dinner party, maf54?
Sponge Cake - I had NOTHING to do with the French election - but I'm sure the ACLU will be hot-jetting over to defend the "misunderstood" rioters of the Socialist constituency....
ChrisL - when you get a moment, you might note the violence, which had ratcheted upwards, is less frequent. Unfortunately, murdering K*ranimals go for the most muder for the buck - and the victims include the innocent as well as military personnel. But how about those arrests re: those radical Islamists planning an attack on East Coast military installations....And your side has a hard time identifying and condemning the enemy because......?
Toooodles...
May 8th, 2007 at 1:41 pmWhy oh why would anyone in the Middle East get the notion that the US plan was to simply occupy Iraq?
-GSD
May 8th, 2007 at 1:41 pmIs this chapter one of your pedophiles manifesto?
May 8th, 2007 at 1:42 pmSince the atmosphere in Washington is reaching Katrina levels for the administration, Rice wanted to get outta town to buy hip-boots (for her testimony) and see the new play opening in Baghdad:
Saddam-A-Lot
*rimshot*
May 8th, 2007 at 1:42 pm(thankyewthankyewI'llbehereallweek...)
Valiant Douche Water,
Why are the Republicans and Conservatives always talking about Iraqis as "ragheads"? You know like Coulter?
Find a better spin point.
-GSD
May 8th, 2007 at 1:43 pmcondi, today:
"We are not going to leave an Iraq that is not capable of defending itself "
bush, sept./oct. 2004:
"We've got 100,000 [troops] trained now, 125,000 by the end of this year, over 200,000 by the end of next year."
May 8th, 2007 at 1:43 pmWe're building PERMANENT bases in Iraq. We're not leaving. We 'need' the oil.
May 8th, 2007 at 1:44 pmComment by valiantthehater — May 8, 2007 @ 1:38 pm
So, what is the Republican plan for Iraq? details…
furthermore, what is the Republican Plan for Iraq, to never leave Iraq because Iraq will turn into a humanitarian disaster?
will Republicans demand that we stay in Iraq forever , but continue to ignore Darfur?
why are Republicans racist towards Darfur? why do they want to help people from Iraq, but not Darfur?
why do Republicans want to help children from Iraq, but not the children of Darfur?
why are Republicans such great racists?
Why do the states with the lowest education always vote republican?
May 8th, 2007 at 1:45 pmwhy are Liberals such great racists?
Comment by valiantthehater
You guys armed both sides of the Iran/Iraq war, and then used the dead as political props. You have no credibility to speak of the dead of Darfur, or Iraq.
Liberals are racists?
Republicans fought against American civil rights reforms tooth and nail, saying that blacks didn't need help overcoming past wrongs -- but now, you guys suddenly embrace the same affirmative action for Iraqis. Do you now think it's also a good idea for America's blacks? Or are you just a hypocrite?
May 8th, 2007 at 1:46 pmSo, what is the Democratic plan for Iraq? details…
furthermore, what is the Democratic Plan for Iraq, if we leave Iraq and then Iraq turns into a humanitarian disaster?
will Liberals demand that we go back into Iraq like they are demanding that we go into Darfur?...HeeHaw,HeeHaw...Comment by valiantthehater — May 8, 2007 @ 1:38 pm
Why do Neoclods always float this garbage? "Hey daddy, I totaled the car then set it on fire, now, what's your plan to drive it home?? Huh?...What?? What's your plan??"
Oy...
May 8th, 2007 at 1:46 pmNot Canadian - A bit off topic, but can anyone explain why France voted for the more conservative candidate? How in the world did that happen?
Comment by valiant venus — May 8, 2007 @ 1:31 pm
#
The conservative party has been in power in France for 12 years. Nothing has changed. What do you think of Sarkozy’s statement that the US should lead the fight on global warming?
Comment by Chris L — May 8, 2007 @ 1:40 pm
Is what I was trying to explain this morning in another thread: being a rightist, nothing makes Sarkozy a USA Republican. VV's is stupid ethnocentrism. And being 'conservative' and 'nationalist' doesn't means that Sarkozy is an USA conservative or an USA nationalist.
Part of the pride of the french right is being self-sufficient. Hence the origin of the word 'chauvinism'.
But hey, don't burst the VV's little bubble dream of world's USA Republican dominance. It helps she sleep tight, with all those fears of muslim and liberal baddies coming after her.
May 8th, 2007 at 1:48 pm"No, we’re looking for a strategy that is going to do what we went there to do, which is to help the Iraqis create a more stable environment, lay a foundation for democracy and national reconciliation to evolve in Iraq, and to leave an Iraq or to have an Iraq that is able to defend itself and secure itself."
Well good luck with that search for the strategy.
May 8th, 2007 at 1:48 pmWithout the social foundation of dedication to the principles of fairness, respect for minority rights, and the absolute discipline to solve political differences at the ballot box, democracy is a pipe dream.
You think people who had PHDs would freakin know this.
She says we are not leaving - the Pentagon tells 35,000 more toops to preare for the fall in Iraq.
May 8th, 2007 at 1:49 pmRepugs are going down and they are going down big - but what about the meantime -- more deaths, more destruction, more people hating us, more money down the drain -- and Bush wants to stay there forever -- tell me again this was never about oil in the first place.
Who would believe that?
They have revealed themselves to us from the start, but some chose to not see what was before their eyes - can they still continue to deny this blatant admission of their plan to stay in Iraq forever?
"Republicans fought against American civil rights reforms tooth and nail,"
should be 'fight', not 'fought'
May 8th, 2007 at 1:50 pmPatrick1 is a terrorist sympathizer. Even worse, he is plotting with the terrorists to keep our troops in harms way. Patrick1 is a traitor to this country and should be hung for it.
Comment by Spudge_Boy
Absolutely correct. He is a traitor to his nation and the Constitution. He has no business even describing himself as an American anymore. He is part of the last throes (28% er's) who want to make Bush into their King. As to why he wants that, only Patrick1's therapist can explain that to us.
May 8th, 2007 at 1:50 pm#52 - Sponge Cake - To answer your question - Because of troop concentrations and the impetus of Iraqi military. (That wasn't too complicated for you, was it.)
BluePUP - The Europeans don't loathe Muslim immigrants - they loathe radical K*ranimals. (We plan to let each Progressive, offended by heightened security interest of radical Islamists, the opportunity to participate in the "Adopt a Muslim extremist" program. No doubt, your "peace and conciliation" attitude toward all people (EXCEPT CONSERVATIVES) will win many "converts". )
Tooodles.....
May 8th, 2007 at 1:51 pmThe only plan bushco had was to control the oil fields and build a big ass compound to spy on all the middle eastern countries. They have done it so talking about an exit plan is a joke.
May 8th, 2007 at 1:51 pmOur plan was to occupy and control Iraq for as long as possible. Condi is basically affirming this policy. Our 'exit strategy' is so muddled because we never had one. They were hoping the war would go better so the long-term occupation would be more palatable to Americans and the rest of the world. Now that it's gone to hell, they really don't care. Their plan is still the same - keep the troops in Iraq, get the Iraq oil law signed, and start pumping out the oil so that Exxon and other American oil companies can make oodles off of the easy to get Iraqi oil.
Yes, it's that simple!!
May 8th, 2007 at 1:51 pmhttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/08/AR2007050800465.html?hpid=topnews
According to the documents, U.S. authorities were alerted to the group's existence by a video store employee, who said a man had brought in a recording of 10 young men shooting assault weapons and shouting jihadist slogans. The man asked for the videotape to be copied onto a DVD, the charging documents said.
Are people really this stupid? I mean other than the wingnuts on this blog.
May 8th, 2007 at 1:51 pmWe won't leave until the multinational oil corporations are sure it's safe to rape the populace without significant consequence. In other words a long time. Thanks G.I. for clearing the way for enormous future profits, how about we throw you a bone...literally to replace the one that was blown off.
Republic66ans are evil.
May 8th, 2007 at 1:53 pmYou hear that, you 70% of Iraqis that want us to stop occupying your country, we're not going to leave ever, we want your OIL and we want it NOW.
Bush doesn't care how many of you he has to kill, his pals need that OIL to make lots of cash.
Hating the Repukian Mafia daily...and you still suck a$$ Patti 1"
May 8th, 2007 at 1:53 pmComment by valiant venus — May 8, 2007 @ 1:31 pm
Because you are a stupid fu*k.
Comment by Spudge_Boy — May 8, 2007 @ 1:33 pm
Perfect reply, brief and to the point. I'm not sure habitual trolls need 3 chances to prove their worthiness for discussion as mentioned on another thread.
May 8th, 2007 at 1:53 pmHater: "why are Liberals such great racists?"
Why do conservatives project?
May 8th, 2007 at 1:53 pm"furthermore, what is the Democratic Plan for Iraq, if we leave Iraq and then Iraq turns into a humanitarian disaster?"
By that you mean Iraq isn't a humanitarian disaster already? Gimme a break.
Americans will be paying for this debacle for decades to come, at the very least, but our suffering is nothing compared to the Iraqis.
May 8th, 2007 at 1:54 pmAs a black man, I want you to know Condi, you make me sick. Damn you and your sorry ass parents, may they burn in hell. I can’t way to see you on c-span, the lies are over.
Comment by Fred Espy — May 8, 2007 @ 1:34 pm
Just so you know Fred, she is as big a disappointment to women. We're all in this together.
May 8th, 2007 at 1:55 pmChris L. - He's French - he is supposed to want the US to fall by the wayside. Like environmental hypocrite Al Gore, Euro environwacks are not interested in curbing green house gases - it's about POWER.
(Note to Al Gore - IF YOU WANT PEOPLE TO BELIEVE YOU REAAAALLLLY ARE CONCERNED WITH THE ENVIRONMENT - USE LESS E-N-E-R-G-Y. THE CARBON OFFSETS PURCHASES DON'T IMPACT YOU.
'til later, dear Progs.....
May 8th, 2007 at 1:56 pmfurthermore, what is the Democratic Plan for Iraq, if we leave Iraq and then Iraq turns into a humanitarian disaster?
Comment by valiantthehater — May 8, 2007 @ 1:38 pm
Iraq is ALREADY a humanitarian disaster!! Does it not bother you that it is a disaster that was wholely created by a misguided war effort? Your mind is so small, violent and full of hate that the only solution you can see for Iraq is to send more American soldiers. In case you haven't noticed, we have been trying that for the last four years and the country is a f*cking mess!! How do you explain that?!?!
Our best intelligence has said repeatedly - THERE WAS NO TERRORIST THREAT FROM IRAQ PRIOR TO OUR INVASION AND OCCUPATION OF THE COUNTRY!!! If there is a terrorist threat now, then it is the result of our invasion.
May 8th, 2007 at 1:56 pmwhy do Liberals want to help children from Darfur, but not the children of Iraq?
why are Liberals such great racists?
Comment by valiantthehater — May 8, 2007 @ 1:38 pm
We'll we're there and Iraq has the highest rate of mortality for children in the world. Getting them killed is helping them how?
May 8th, 2007 at 1:57 pmHere's what happens when we leave . . . the UN goes in along with Iraq's neighbors and you get the Palestinian occupied territories scenario. Enjoy. Civil war, hunger, depravity like none imaginable. Just like we have now. Perhaps on a larger scale, perhaps not. But, there will be one major difference, American troops will not be targets. Our presence will not be viewed as occupation. Our actions might start to match our words.
So, what's the Right's plan for Iraq if the Surge fails? Specifics, please.
May 8th, 2007 at 1:58 pmSo, what’s the Right’s plan for Iraq if the Surge fails? Specifics, please.
Comment by po — May 8, 2007 @ 1:58 pm
Come on! That's an easy one. We surge 'once' more.
May 8th, 2007 at 2:01 pmF*ckin schizofrenic piece of sc*m.I would puke on her 1000 times.
May 8th, 2007 at 2:01 pmWhy, thank the stars above, Patrick! It looks like we'll be bleeding in the sands of Iraq forever.
/sarcasm off
May 8th, 2007 at 2:01 pm"The Iraqi government is going on vacation, and the oil contracts aren’t signed. Bush has to stall."
Exactly....this might be the only thing that actually unites the Iraqi's...they all lose if this law is enacted. I suspect that they might stay on vacation until January of 2009. Anyways, we'll never get their oil under the terms of this law...they'll destroy their pipelines and transfer stations before they let us legally steal it.
May 8th, 2007 at 2:03 pmShane #82
I was being courteous, that's all. To extend the analogy, though, I suppose one of the troll's posts could be "foul" and once caught in our collaborative mitts, the said troll can be benched immediately.
May 8th, 2007 at 2:04 pm#85 - Dear Shane - Condoleeza Rice is not a "disappointment" to conservative women.
Mr. Espy - Maybe you damn to hell the parents out there who do not encourage their children to excel in school, buy their children clothes SO large that said clothes can double as a tent and support vicious rap "starz". How sad that you expect people to think like you and 90% of black voters. The Dem Party, which has controlled America's largest cities for decades, have done little or nothing for their black constituency. But they EXPECT you to vote for them because....you always have. How sad.
May 8th, 2007 at 2:04 pmIt was obvious to most of the world then, and obvious to all but the most devoted fools now:
* Reason one-Production Sharing Agreement
* Reason two--Status of Forces Agreement
The fantasy of permanent bases on top of huge oil deposits was more than the Republicons could resist. Who knew that the oil would be cheaper to buy than to steal?
Folks, we are all criminals for letting this go on. Start-up the Draft, it's the only thing that will keep us honest. The mercenary military is too easy to use for evil purposes.
May 8th, 2007 at 2:04 pmBig Dick in trouble?
Cheney's name is on DC Madam's list, according to today's Wayne Masden Report. WMR says White House came down heavy on ABC to muffle the news.
May 8th, 2007 at 2:05 pmIraqis: ‘Iraqis Need To Know That We Are Looking To Leave Iraq’
May 8th, 2007 at 2:06 pmNothing complicated about your answer. So, you should have said "Was that enough bullsh!t for you?" Because that's all you posted. More troll bullsh!t that isn't based in reality. You would know that if you had any military experience. But you don't just like all of your troll brethren.
May 8th, 2007 at 2:08 pm"Condoleeza Rice is not a “disappointment†to conservative women."
i guess not:
“Chevron, the second-largest American oil company, is preparing to acknowledge that it should have known kickbacks were being paid to Saddam Hussein on oil it bought from Iraq as part of a defunct United Nations program, according to investigators. … At the time, Condoleezza Rice, now secretary of state, was a member of Chevron’s board and led its public policy committee, which oversaw areas of potential political concerns for the company. Ms. Rice resigned from Chevron’s board on Jan. 16, 2001, after being named national security advisor by President Bush.â€
May 8th, 2007 at 2:09 pmMy ideal plan for Iraq (as a libertarian) is to pull all of our troops out post haste, impeach Bush+Cheney+the rest of the administration who lied to the American people and disobeyed the law, and extradite them to Iraq or the UN to be tried for starting an aggressive war. They can go down in history as being responsible for all of the deaths in Iraq.
Furthermore, I wouldn't mind seeing some kind of system where every US international action would have to be voted on by the population. Those who voted for it would be considered financially liable for damage resulting from it. Why should the people who were at war protests before we even invaded the sovereign country be responsible for cleaning up the predictable mess that was created? Let the people who thought that being vaguely safer somehow justified attacking another country bear the responsibility for the aftermath.
May 8th, 2007 at 2:09 pmDick Cheney's on DC Madam's list, according to today's Wayne Masden Report. The White House came down hard on ABC to muffle the news, he claims. Could get interesting if one the big papers decides to check it out.
May 8th, 2007 at 2:09 pmValiant Venus, you posed a legitimate question. I responded with a civil, legitmate answer. Then, you responded with a catty, childish attack on liberals. Evidently, it is useless for liberals such as myself to give you the courtesy of responding to your posts in a civil manner. Was that the purpose of your response? To remind me that it's useless to try to engage you? If it was, then you accomplished your objective. Congrats!
May 8th, 2007 at 2:10 pmFolks, we are all criminals for letting this go on. Start-up the Draft, it’s the only thing that will keep us honest. The mercenary military is too easy to use for evil purposes.
Comment by RBee — May 8, 2007 @ 2:04 pm
I'm not so sure about this draft idea. Maybe I'm too cynical but it seems to me that the rich and/or connected children of this country will either find a way out or be posted to safer areas like the green zone.
May 8th, 2007 at 2:10 pm"as the President said to you, we’re focused on having it happen."
It sounds like the President has read "The Secret".
May 8th, 2007 at 2:10 pmI think I'd rather he have an astrologer.
Tom,
Have you ever seen the movie Blade or watched any vampire movies?
There is a sect of humans that worship their vampire masters. They want to be turned into vampires, so they will have immortality. The vampires use these humans to do their bidding. The humans are pretty much slaves until they are turned, which they aren't always.
These trolls are the republicans slaves to do their bidding. The trolls hope to be picked up out of their wretched existence by their neo con masters.
May 8th, 2007 at 2:13 pmfourth largest proven oil reserves in the world, baby. We're staying!
Condi knows from her Chevron days.
May 8th, 2007 at 2:14 pm"There is no 'Plan B'...."
Into the valley of death rode the six hundred ... uhhh, make that thirty three hundred (and counting).
May 8th, 2007 at 2:15 pmThat makes sense. Who the heck would fu*k Cheney for free? His lesbian wife?
May 8th, 2007 at 2:17 pmmargaret: "Maybe I’m too cynical but it seems to me that the rich and/or connected children of this country will either find a way out or be posted to safer areas like the green zone."
Yes, but at least we'd get some of the wealthy and powerful taking part. Remember, in Viet Nam, people like Kerry and Gore joined up because they didn't want another member of their community to be forced to go in their place.
May 8th, 2007 at 2:17 pmThe trolls hope to be picked up out of their wretched existence by their neo con masters.
Those trolls are gonna be sorely disappointed when the indictments start.
May 8th, 2007 at 2:18 pmCrap, VALIANT DOUCHE BAG, you are just as stupid and ignorant as yesterday, you never learn do you.
And quit with the, "This is what Libs think crap." it is obvious that you don't know Jack Sh*t about what Libs think from you dumb a$$ posts, bite my bottom you scum sucking bottom feeder.
Hating Valiant Douche Bag and Patti 1" and the pervert daily.
May 8th, 2007 at 2:20 pmWe MUST make sure that this effing war ends before 2008!
May 8th, 2007 at 2:21 pmTo you guys, that commented on my post, thank you. To bluedog, Condi,s father was John Rice if I remember right. He was a preacher in Bham, that was not involved in the civil rights movement. He ran to Denver, damn him to hell. To the lady that commented, you get my point, it is time for Condi to stop lying, people are dying behind her lies. And to you small penis, I don't need your approval of how I choose to vote. The repug party to me is a party of racist, I think that black people have gotten it right on the repug party. I just voted here in Indy today for the dem party, without any thought of how I was voting. I have never voted for a repug, I think you guys are cowards and I know you are racist. I am 50 years old this month, guess what I don't listen to rap music, did you think all black people listen to rap music. But i do believe in free speech, to include Don Imus's right to free speech. How many of those parents you mention have caused the death of anyone. Bush lied people are dying. Stop the lies and the dying will end. Comment on that you dumb fucker.
May 8th, 2007 at 2:24 pmBluePUP - I gave you a very honest answer. The only religion most humanist Progs defend is the Muslim relgion. Many can't stand the social constraints of Christianity or Judaism - Who knew? (Isn't it amusing that people who do NOT have a counterargument respond with "Project much?" Talk about muddying the water....)
Back later....for more fun and games.....
May 8th, 2007 at 2:25 pmI'm still waiting for Valiant and patrick to let me know wha the Right's plan is for Iraq when the Surge fails? What is your Plan B. Cuz me and som eof my ilk think it's LONG OVER DUE for y'all to be thinking about Plan B. That's why God gave you that brain. While it looks like a sponge, it has some amazing other characteristics. Use it. And let me know your plan
May 8th, 2007 at 2:30 pmNtz... Condi is swimming in some wild waters with this.
guess what.. the iraqis wont understand at all. instead they will get more angry at us troops. => neverending insurgency
May 8th, 2007 at 2:31 pmvaliant venus
Your constant STEREOTYPING and LIES about the religious beliefs of progressives adds nothing to the discourse at TP and is insulting. I, for one, remember defending YOU (during your Mighty Aphrodite fake bio-building days) against a progressive regarding your alleged Jewish background. You repaid me by later questioning and demeaning MY faith. The true social constraints of MY Christianity are to keep MYSELF connected to God and to treat others honestly, fairly, and respectfully. YOU, on the other hand, condone oppression on the basis of religious beliefs.
Too dull (s)
May 8th, 2007 at 2:35 pmHer head tilt is a dead giveaway that she is being deceptive! She was able to change from a question & answer session to preaching through filibustering. These are the talents needed to be a politician these days apparently. Done and gone are the days of honesty.
May 8th, 2007 at 2:35 pmVV: "The only religion most humanist Progs defend is the Muslim relgion. Many can’t stand the social constraints of Christianity or Judaism - Who knew?"
Where on earth did you get this nonsense. Did you pull it out of your dark place? Most American Jews refer to themselves as liberals and there is a long tradition of progressive ideas among christians. I would point you to the Book of Matthew. Take the liberal ideas out of Matthew and there's almost nothing left in there. Do you just make this stuff up as you go?
May 8th, 2007 at 2:37 pmCONDI ... what a piece of BASURA (trash)!
What would her mother think?
Dispicable "human" beings come in all colors it now appears.
May 8th, 2007 at 2:40 pmDo you just make this stuff up as you go?
Comment by Bluedog49 — May 8, 2007 @ 2:37 pm
Er... yes.
But Varmint Venous is not even good at that either.
On topic,
Rice's statement "Charlie, because as the President said to you, we’re focused on having it happen", says it all. This administration really do think they can alter reality by wishing it.
May 8th, 2007 at 2:43 pmI watched about 15 minutes of Charlie Rose last night and I thought my head would explode. This woman is not qualified nor is she capable enough to be SOS.
She flits around the world on these trips, stays for a short visit and then leaves. Her position is to sit down and talk to and negotiate with those with whom we have differing opinions. She should also stay for as long as it takes. I have come to the conclusion that this administration has no interest in world peace because if it did the results would not be stagnant.
She lied throughout the interview.
To Patrick and Prince Valiant--vanish until you can participate on this site with some insight and intelligence. Until such time, do the rest of us a favor and disappear--you bring nothing to the discussion at hand.
May 8th, 2007 at 2:51 pmShut yer pie-hole candy and prepare for prison when
May 8th, 2007 at 2:51 pmyou are proven to be a federal offender after Waxman
grills your lying war-pig a#s.
And in the meantime, there aren't enough National Guard troops and equipment in Kansas to help the victims of the tornado.
May 8th, 2007 at 2:53 pmI understand that many of the trolls argue in favor of staying in Iraq based on the notion that when we leave many Iraqis will be killed in the ensuing civil war. Can one of them please tell me why they think staying an addition 1,2,5... years will prevent this?
May 8th, 2007 at 2:53 pmCondoleeza Rice is not a “disappointment†to conservative women.
Comment by valiant venus — May 8, 2007 @ 2:04 pm
She should be. Not all conservative women think like you. She has failed to impress anybody except Bush. I guess you and Condi are praying at the same altar so YOU respect her. Now all you need is somebody to respect you.
By the way, nice racist rant shit for brains.
May 8th, 2007 at 2:53 pm"I'm going to jump off this building and fly."
"You know, it's pretty much impossible that you're going to fly."
"I fully belive that I will successully fly."
"Um...what do you plan on doing if you can't actually fly?"
"I plan to make flying work, of course!"
May 8th, 2007 at 2:54 pm#115 - Good point!! The whole premise of Condi's speech is that the Iraqis want us to be there. From what I've read, most of them view their current situation as OUR fault. (And given how incompetently the occupation has been conducted, who can blame them?)
The continuing lie will be that we are there to help THEM out. (You can see this in Valiant's rants.) If we cared more about them we would have made sure that the billions spent on reconstructions weren't pissed away. As another poster put it, we want our soldiers on top of their oil. It's Cheney's wet dream.
May 8th, 2007 at 3:00 pmI’m not so sure about this draft idea. Maybe I’m too cynical but it seems to me that the rich and/or connected children of this country will either find a way out or be posted to safer areas like the green zone.
Comment by margaret
Actually, Israel has the right idea for this but the politicians will have to leave the loopholes out of the bill. Make universal service mandatory for ALL out of HS with documented exceptions for family hardship.
And, I would guarantee it, support for this will dry up as soon as EVERYONE has a dog in this fight. (and future, similar, fights, I might add.)
May 8th, 2007 at 3:03 pmI’m still waiting for Valiant and patrick to let me know wha the Right’s plan is for Iraq when the Surge fails? What is your Plan B. Cuz me and som eof my ilk think it’s LONG OVER DUE for y’all to be thinking about Plan B. That’s why God gave you that brain. While it looks like a sponge, it has some amazing other characteristics. Use it. And let me know your plan
Comment by po — May 8, 2007 @ 2:30 pm
I understand that many of the trolls argue in favor of staying in Iraq based on the notion that when we leave many Iraqis will be killed in the ensuing civil war. Can one of them please tell me why they think staying an addition 1,2,5… years will prevent this?
Comment by erock — May 8, 2007 @ 2:53 pm
IMHO, we need to pepper the trolls with these kinds of questions. Just like our president, they have no valid replies and go only go off on tangential attacks.
May 8th, 2007 at 3:03 pmWhether it IS a long-term commitment or not (nevermind that we were promised a SHORT war and little cost...HA!) is no excuse for not having an exit strategy.
May 8th, 2007 at 3:04 pm“I’m going to jump off this building and fly.â€
Comment by Gunner — May 8, 2007 @ 2:54 pm
I think you'd have better luck throwing yourself at the ground and missing.
May 8th, 2007 at 3:04 pmRachel Maddow told a story yesterday on her show about Condi getting up after a light-skinned black woman had spoken about her opposition to some stuff she wanted to do as provost at Stanford. Condi said to the audience "can't no white woman tell me what to do."
Condi in a nutshell.
May 8th, 2007 at 3:06 pmWTF?
May 8th, 2007 at 3:09 pm“I plan to make flying work, of course!â€
Comment by Gunner — May 8, 2007 @ 2:54 pm
Heh, but the shorter version of Bush's stragedy, if I may:
I plan to jump off the cliff, but I've decided hitting the ground is not an option....
May 8th, 2007 at 3:14 pm“Charlie, because as the President said to you, we’re focused on having it happen.â€
That reference scares me. To me its the same kind of personality cult thinking thats the norm in dictatorships.
No matter what the facts are, no matter what reality shows to be true, if the great leader says something you should shut up and accept his words as the only truth you need to know.
May 8th, 2007 at 3:25 pm"Actually, Israel has the right idea for this but the politicians will have to leave the loopholes out of the bill. Make universal service mandatory for ALL out of HS with documented exceptions for family hardship."
Comment by Dave E. — May 8, 2007 @ 3:03 pm
I completely agree to NO loopholes but I'm still uneasy.
It feels as though we're playing into their hands somehow. All those neocons over at the American Enterprise Inst. that have so much influence on our government are really pushing to to increase the size of the military so that we can "respond" to all the threats they see out there.
May 8th, 2007 at 3:30 pm$#&#@&*(%#(#%^#@*%^#+_@%%$#%&#@***!!?!?!?!? And "what we went there to do" is... what, non-operational now? Finding WMDs? Removing Saddam Hussein? Spreading Democracy?
Oh, the horrors of watching Condi spout the party line of the hour. It ain't a pretty sight, but it sure is an ugly one.
May 8th, 2007 at 3:42 pmThere is no Plan B except for the comming Democrat Bashing and Blaming campaign.
Sad.
May 8th, 2007 at 3:43 pmPIECE OF SHIT.
May 8th, 2007 at 3:44 pmThere is no Plan B except for the comming Democrat Bashing and Blaming campaign.
Sad.
Comment by Squidbilly — May 8, 2007 @ 3:43 pm
The squidman is right! I foresee much blaming of the Democrats in the future! I'm sure they've already got their, "It's the Democrats fault!!" talking points all prepared.
Oh that a staffer with a conscience leaked THAT memo to the press!
May 8th, 2007 at 3:49 pmIt's all about oil. We will never leave.
It doesn't matter how many Iraqis die. It doesn't matter how many Americans die. It doesn't matter how many Americans lose their minds.
We will never leave Iraq. They have built huge concrete fortresses.
We will never leave.
We should...but we won't.
May 8th, 2007 at 3:49 pm"I completely agree to NO loopholes but I’m still uneasy.
It feels as though we’re playing into their hands somehow. All those neocons over at the American Enterprise Inst. that have so much influence on our government are really pushing to to increase the size of the military so that we can “respond†to all the threats they see out there."
Comment by margaret
I have three sons, all HS age. I know what you're saying . . . given their track record, what the Congressional membership say they will do and what actually gets passed may be two different things. Sad when you can't really trust your representative in Congress to be just that - representative of all. It has to be passed at a time when the public will not stand for any loop-holes - after the next election, maybe?
May 8th, 2007 at 3:49 pmDraft or Leave.
May 8th, 2007 at 3:52 pmTranslation: When the Iraqis kick our asses out of their country for good, then we'll leave.
May 8th, 2007 at 3:55 pmKeep the oil flowing.
NO METERS!!!
How much oil has been pumped out of Iraq?
May 8th, 2007 at 3:57 pmNO ONE KNOWS.
Dave E. - good luck with those sons of yours! Are they militarily-inclined? Maybe it would help if you steered them into some specialty that could keep them out of harm's way just in case?
May 8th, 2007 at 4:01 pm"Draft or Leave."
Comment by feckless
I agree. I think that we'll be out sooner rather than later. The draft will just serve to inhibit our involvement in future little "adventures" such as this.
No matter how "hawk-ish" you may be on a war, having one of your own (or a friend's child) in harm's way does put a different perspective on things.
And, by NO exceptions, I think the hawks at the AEI should be over there too, not as intel analysts behind the lines, but as rifle-carrying participants. Diving for cover might make them think a little differently. War wouldn't be just a video game or theoretical any more.
May 8th, 2007 at 4:01 pm#17 Comment by po — May 8, 2007 @ 1:03 pm
"Too bad they don’t really know what they set out to do when they went there."
Do you really believe this?
Good grief, man. Of course they knew, and they still do today. Their philosophy and mission has never wavered one iota.The short term mission was to control Iraq and then to watch the ME dominos fall (in the "arc of instability, as they call it.) Their medium range goal is complete control of the ME and all the energy resources there. The long range goal is world domination. That is why we are not getting out of Iraq! It is the critical first step in their plan and it can't fail or they are dead in the water.
This is not a conspiracy theory. Listen to what they say, (like both Bush and Rice on C. Rose,) in the big picture.
That is why Rice is such a horrible person along with this cabal of neocons. Look into their Straussian neocon history and everything they say and do, then and now, fits in like pieces of a puzzle.
May 8th, 2007 at 4:05 pm"Dave E. - good luck with those sons of yours! Are they militarily-inclined? Maybe it would help if you steered them into some specialty that could keep them out of harm’s way just in case?"
Comment by margaret
No - both my brother and I spent 20+ years in the AF - Vietnam-era. At one point, I might have steered them in that direction, but with this idiocy ongoing, I would not right now. I have no problem with their serving for the right reason (and as as long as all are asked to sacrifice equally). That's the problem right now. We have enough of the right age to do whatever we need to do, but have never asked that they step up. This war is being fought in a way that the "elite" are do not have to give much of anything (unless they REALLY want to, but even then, it's up to them).
May 8th, 2007 at 4:09 pmWe won't leave until the supertanker "Condi Rice" is steaming away with the last of Iraq's oil, en route to China.
May 8th, 2007 at 4:23 pmBut nobody can answer the question, "If it doesn't happen, what?"
What an epiphany!!
May 8th, 2007 at 4:31 pmContinuing from my post from #146
Answer these questions (and more) and the big picture that BushCo is painting comes clear.
Why is BushCo building permanent bases in Iraq?
Why has BushCo constructed the largest embasy in the world in Iraq?
Why did BushCo have Bremmer write the laws that are today governing Iraq?
Why is BushCo threatening Iran and talking tough on Syria?
Why was Bolton put in as ambassador to the UN?
Why was Wolfowitz put in as the world Bank president?
Why did BushCo promote the Isreali invasion of Lebanon?
Why was Powell pushed out?
What is the surge really about?
Why can't BushCo "see" the error of their way?
Why is there no Plan B?
And there are a lot more questions you could ask. Each one worthy of an essay to explain the connection to the big picture (which, by the way is really called PLAN A). Plan A really exists and is faithfully being carried out as all the events over the last 6 years have shown. Look at Plan A! It is huge and its terrible.
Nothing that is happening is stupid, happenstance or done out of ignorance. Plan A was conceived and first put into action back in the Nixon Administration by the same crazies that are in power today. Happily for us and the world, Plan A has been carried out very badly, (thanks for small favors) and that is why it is going down.
May 8th, 2007 at 4:37 pmCondolleezza Rice is a genuinely dumb human being.
May 8th, 2007 at 4:43 pm"I have no problem with their serving for the right reason"
Comment by Dave E. — May 8, 2007 @ 4:09 pm
And that is the crux of the matter isn't it? If Iraq was a true threat to the U.S. that would have been a whole 'nother matter now wouldn't it? Do your sons buy the line that we need to 'nuke Iran' or any of the nonsense about Iran being an imminent threat?
May 8th, 2007 at 4:46 pmSo Dave - you don't believe in an all volunteer armed service?
BluePuP Any expression in non-parochial schools by Christians or Jews result in the ACLU threat of a lawsuit - but if Muslim "children" request a "prayer room", the accommodation of their religion is defended on the basis of "diversity". I do wish the moderate Muslim community would stand up to the radical hijackers of their religion.
Re: your assertion about Jews. Many Jews are very liberal, but for the first time in contemporary history more than a handful of Jews vote for Repubs due to the anti-Israel stance of many progressives. I admire the Book of Matthew. So what do you do with the rest of your Bible - cut, paste, and BURN?
May 8th, 2007 at 4:47 pmSure, we have no intention of leaving Iraq......
Until we've obtained every last drop of oil under the Iraqi desert. Then (and only then), we'll be like a sheepherder and get the flock out of there.
My best wishes to the troops stuck in Iraq, due to a buckaroo-minded, spoiled brat, horrible excuse of a p(r)esident. Grant at his most drunken state has nothing on Dubya.
May 8th, 2007 at 4:50 pmWhy is BushCo building permanent bases in Iraq?
For permenant Iraqi security
Why has BushCo constructed the largest embasy in the world in Iraq?
an embassy??? is he??? well, that would mean, he was plotting to have an on going international relationship!!! how dare he!!!
Why did BushCo have Bremmer write the laws that are today governing Iraq?
Look, you can't just give a bunch of out of control, violent, people free reign. They have to be deserving of freedom and independence, this is at the heart ofthe issue, and it is why we have not left yet.
Why is BushCo threatening Iran and talking tough on Syria?
Because their shady, and what's his face in Iran is a koran-thumping nutjob
Why was Bolton put in as ambassador to the UN?
He was qualified for the job
Why was Wolfowitz put in as the world Bank president?
ditto, stop asking stupid questions
Why did BushCo promote the Isreali invasion of Lebanon?
Israel has a right to defend their freedom, we support that, stop asking stupid questions
Your last questions are, in fact, "begging the question". You should take a long walk in the woods, clear your head, try to relax... sober up, maybe? - then think real hard before you open your mouth
May 8th, 2007 at 4:56 pmMerlin, are you really jimbo dude???
come on...
May 8th, 2007 at 4:58 pmMr President
May 8th, 2007 at 5:11 pmOur sweet trollie is here again. And with more of its useless tripe. Back, I say, back, back to the "West Hollywood all male gym" with you, obnoxious pest. Trolls are like cockroaches, The more you skoosh the more new ones arrive. But watch out, prez, "Troll Hunter, Private Eye" is on your case.
Last installment from # 46 and #50
Plan A also includes the domestic front.
Why the pressure to change the SCOTUS to a strongly conservative bench?
Why the push to put hundreds of evangelical trained lawyers in the federal system?
Why the wire tapping and skirting of FISA?
Why the extensive use of fear BushCo has used since 911?
Why the attempted destruction of Social Security?
Why the changes leading to Attorneygate?
Why the abandonment of New Orleans?
Why the use of signing statements?
Why the recess appointments of unapprovable candidates?
The list of questions goes on and on.
Looked at as individual incidents, you come up with answers like arrogance, petty power play, stupidity, incompetence, no compassion, petty partisan politics etc. But look for one, just one, idea or plan that includes all of them and there is only one answer. That answer is a real and thought out PLAN A, that BushCo will (and MUST) pursue to their bitter end.
They have been telling us just that all along. There is only Plan A! Rice said it to a Senate Sub-committee. Iraq is not isolated. It is part of a much larger picture, she said (i.e. Plan A). (Sorry I can't remember when this happened. Will try to track it down. Anybody remember that?) We just need to really pay attention, listen and look at the big picture.
OK prez, go to it, write more of your tripe. I love reading your "intelligent" responses.
May 8th, 2007 at 5:14 pmBwaaaaHaaaaHaaaa
She isn't competent as a liar.
May 8th, 2007 at 5:14 pmBy the way, there's another thread today about the fact that Chevron knowingly took part in kickbacks to Saddam Hussein for oil. Rice was on the Chevron board when this was going on.
May 8th, 2007 at 5:20 pmDoubt if anyone will ever read this comment but I am just so angry. Rice is lying, manipulating, self-serving embarrassment to this country. Bush charged right into an ambush and this slow escalation splurge keeps us in the shooting gallery. Rice does what she is told and her "royalty" attitude mocks justice as she runs from her subpoena. I'm disappointed in Rose for letting her get away with 'not' answering his questions but talking around them. He didn't call her on her crap. What about ignoring Iran's email offering support at the beginning of the occupation. Ignoring Iraq's neighbors for 5yrs refusing to engage talks with them. "The speech was cleared...ladeda, ladeda" and Rose just sat there. She talked around the point rather than saying we're staying in Iraq no matter what the Iraqis do until Bush is out of office. All those dead people meant nothing to her, her conscience is just one big rationalization. She should be barred from ever holding public office again. She should be jailed but nooo...she'll probably teach and write books and never be held accountable for her treachery. She doesn't deserve the respect Rose was showing her. I would have thrown up every time she said, "Now Charlie, Charlie...". Her condescending attitude was sickening. She so deserves the fate she was responsible for bringing on so many Iraqis. How much longer must we endure this kind of ilk
May 8th, 2007 at 5:22 pm#56 Comment by Mr. President — May 8, 2007 @ 4:58 pm
"Merlin, are you really jimbo dude???
come on…"
What a stupid question. Typical of tour troll mentality. Only you trolls run and hide in more than one user name in order to deceive.
But OK, if you want me to be "jimbo dude" in your little trollie mind, you go right ahead and call me anything you want, sweetie. (Listen, don't tell VV I'm calling you sweetie, it will be very hurt. Let this be our little secret, OK sweetie?)
May 8th, 2007 at 5:26 pmSorry Merlin, I was doin' squats to show off my fine ass to fellas down at W.H.A.M.G., tsss... sa-moking.
Let me read what ya have to say real quick
May 8th, 2007 at 5:28 pm"So Dave - you don’t believe in an all volunteer armed service?"
I believe that we ALL owe the country some form of service - male and female, without exception, except for family hardship.
I formed my opinion after attending some computer training taught by an Israeli emigre. (Eating lunch and talking with him for a week was a far sight better than the training.) He gave me a lot of insight into why Israel treats threats the way it does. (They don't have the population to fight anything prolonged so their actions are almost universally decisive and overpowering.) All serve so any soldiers lost in a war are painful to them as a nation. It's personal and they have managed to insure that the service is truly universal.
We are fighting this war with a self-imposed limitation on the size of our armed forces. We have the manpower but refuse to require that all serve and sacrifice for the common good. In Israel, ALL just assume that military service is expected so they plan their futures around that. I think that's what should be expected in this country too.
When needed, we would have a willing pool of citizens to serve. And I do think that those at the top would think more carefully about our involvements if they had to worry about their children being put in harm's way.
Margaret, as for your question as to the use of nukes to solve our problem in the middle east, no I do not. I'm worried for the soul of this country. And I'm worried about the amorality of the leaders. They are who the rest of the world sees as our public "face".
I have honestly started to think that the major "religious" divisions in this country are no longer Protestant, Catholic, Jewish, Muslin, etc. We have too often proven that we will compromise those beliefs for political or monetary gain. We are now either Democrat or Republican, and base our morality and outrage on what happens with which of the labels applies to others around us.
We pick our sins and apply our outrage to them unevenly.
May 8th, 2007 at 5:29 pmWho is VV?
Anyway
Why the pressure to change the SCOTUS to a strongly conservative bench?
Bush is conservative. The people who voted for him are too. The Court is supposed to interpret the constitution for those people.
Why the push to put hundreds of evangelical trained lawyers in the federal system?
Yeah, I don't like evangelicals either... their creepy.
Why the wire tapping and skirting of FISA?
Homeland security is an active process
Why the extensive use of fear BushCo has used since 911?
petitio principii
Why the attempted destruction of Social Security?
petitio principii
Why the changes leading to Attorneygate?
for the pleasure of the president
Why the abandonment of New Orleans?
petitio principii
Why the use of signing statements?
I don't know what your referring to here
Why the recess appointments of unapprovable candidates
??? I get my news from Stewert and Colbert
May 8th, 2007 at 5:36 pmWhy are liberals such racists indeed?
Good question. We'd have to ask the people like Albert Gore Sr and the rest of the Dimocrats who filibustered the Civil Rights Act.
May 8th, 2007 at 5:38 pmThat woman is soulless. Disgusting.
May 8th, 2007 at 5:41 pmComment by po — May 8, 2007 @ 2:30 pmI’m still waiting for Valiant and patrick to let me know wha the Right’s plan is for Iraq when the Surge fails? What is your Plan B?
I'm not my sweetie VV (alias The pres.), but here is their answer anyway.
1. Plan A. Make it work at all costs.
May 8th, 2007 at 5:45 pm2. If Plan A fails, see #1
Not to be picky, but the Democrats who took part in filibustering the Civil Rights Act were not liberals. Some, like Strom Thurman, went on to have a long career as Republicans. Moreover, some of the Republicans who supported the Civil Rights Act couldn't get past first base in today's Repub party and you know it.
May 8th, 2007 at 5:45 pmNo, Bluedog, be as picky as you want. But you forgot to mention that the Republicans amended women to the Act, solely because they thought it would make the Act that much more unattractive.
May 8th, 2007 at 5:52 pmI saw some unidentified right winger say on CNN that we would be staying in Iraq for "generations," so that's at least 60 years. I actually jerked out of my stupor and said 'whaaaat!?' but of course it was not questioned or followed up.
May 8th, 2007 at 5:54 pmMr. President is so convenient with his pat answers. Bolten was "qualified" to represent us at the UN an organization he thought was worthless and should be disbanded. Wolfowitz ditto...how's that girlfriend working out for him, or the abstinence policy to control AIDS, Cheney still in the last throes of PNAC, Largest embassy in the world in the middle of a war torn civil war without an established central government isn't suspicious to you. How about all the attack ships in the Persian Gulf or the "attack Iran" rhetoric just to help England get their sailors back. Or what up with the politicalization of the DoJ with the intention of blocking the Democratic vote. The cog in the machine was the '06 elections and oversight begun for the 1st time in 6yrs. You are an ignorant name caller with stupid answers or you are just an uninformed big mouth who could give a shit about truth but just can't entertain the idea you could be wrong. With all the info that's come out from every corner of this incompetent, corrupt administration all I can say to you is, "The only way to not know is to not want to know" (Penn-Warren). Bush thought he was smart and just like General George Custer charged right into an ambush called a civil war; proceeded to rape and bleed the country with war profiteer contractors; closed all the factories and put Iraqis out of work, out of electricity, out of water robbing not only them but our own troops with profit privateering; sent 12 billion in $100 bills shrink wrapped on skids into a war zone and can't account for where it went; Had no other option other than admit complete and total failure and withdraw except the slow escalation splurge which is keeping us in the shooting gallery ambush just to get him to the end of his term and keep KBR and Haliburton profits soaring: This yahoo cowboy strategy is so easily manipulated just like the Indians did to Custer.."just call 'em chicken and they'll chase you right into the ambush over and over again". Terrorist don't say look what we did to them they say look what we made them do to themselves...and our troops our dying daily...This is how badly Bush has blown Plan-A else we would be in Armageddon by now. And you Mr. President try to glaze over it all as if it's just business as usual..Nothing to get suspicious about her...you are just a troll to mention it. Yeah, the only way to not know is to not want to know and that is where you and your comments thrive.
May 8th, 2007 at 6:25 pm# 64 Comment by Dave E. — May 8, 2007 @ 5:29 pm
"When needed, we would have a willing pool of citizens to serve. And I do think that those at the top would think more carefully about our involvements if they had to worry about their children being put in harm’s way."
Dave, history does not support your reasonable conclusion. As exhibits A & B I submit "W" whose avoidance of military service after entering the ANG (via political power) has been well chronicled. And of course Cheney who had 5 deferments in order to pursue his own agenda rather than serve.
I was lucky, I served in the army for 2 years from 1958 to 1960 missing both Korea and Vietnam. Then 3 years in the National Guard.
I agree with your sentiments regarding service to my country, however I would refuse to serve for a would be dictator who will use me for cannonfodder. Had I sons as you do, I would counsel them not to support an administration such as this corrupt cabal that is sending our finest to die for reasons of political domination. Were I a young man today I would refuse to serve in what ever way necessary. Over 3300 are now dead and thousands wounded for no valid reason at all.
May 8th, 2007 at 6:35 pmGo Bjobotts !!!
May 8th, 2007 at 6:45 pm# 171 Comment by NatteringNabob — May 8, 2007 @ 5:54 pm
"I saw some unidentified right winger say on CNN that we would be staying in Iraq for “generations,†so that’s at least 60 years. I actually jerked out of my stupor and said ‘whaaaat!?’ but of course it was not questioned or followed up."
Why your surprise here? What do you think our huge embassy in Iraq shows? That we are planning to leave soon? And what about those huge air bases that nobody wants to talk about. They are like small cities. These things are being built to last generations! And you are surprised that PLAN A is to stay in the ME for generations?
Look at the big picture! The evidence is right there.
May 8th, 2007 at 6:45 pmHad I sons as you do, I would counsel them not to support an administration such as this corrupt cabal that is sending our finest to die for reasons of political domination. Were I a young man today I would refuse to serve in what ever way necessary. Over 3300 are now dead and thousands wounded for no valid reason at all.
Comment by Merlin
I agree with you, Merlin. Before this war, I would have encouraged my youngest son to join the military. I think it would ahve been good for him. However, when I saw this war coming, my sons and I began talking about what this war would mean, and neither of them support this administration. My youngest says he will serve if drafted, but not otherwise -- that's just the kind of guy he is. :)
I can't tell you how relieved I am that Bush will not get my sons.
May 8th, 2007 at 6:58 pmThe administration is saying in other words, we will not leave until we've stolen ALL their oil.
May 8th, 2007 at 7:53 pmWell, Zooey, get a clue. Your "sons" will get drafted. By the Democrats.
If and when the Democrats return to power, one of the first things that will return is "National Service". You suckers voted for these people, and you will get it up the ass. Trust me, Hillary would have no compunction about drafting cannon fodder for the march on Tehran. She's that kind of person. And it will take a draft to take down the Iranians.
You rubes are so gullible: you voted for these people in '06 and bought their bullshit about bringing home the boys. In reality, what Condi is doing is signaling to the Dems and the Arab allies, as well as the Israelis and the Iranians that there will be no "helicopters on the roof" scenario, that we are in it until the Iraqis can stand up on their own.
This "occupation" is now about making sure that Iraq doesn't become an Iranian sattelite state. It's also about something else.
The Sunni-Shia Civil War that everyone goes on about has receded. AQI is now the main actor, since the Moqtada fled to Tehran. They are the ones conducting the bombing spectaculars. Even Hillary has had to admit that there has been a huge turnaround in favor of the Government in Al-Anbar. She's actually praised out strategy there.
Her military and political people are ahead of the events curve, like Condi and Gates. You folks are still stuck on the "Civil War" meme.
You suckers didn't notice this, did you? You're being betrayed by the Clintons again. We Republicans knew this was going to happen, but we also knew that the Clintons are all about power, and never about principle. That's why we hate them so much. But she's clever enough, like Condi, to spot a trend and ride it. Unlike you clowns.
What Condi stated in that interview is becoming a consensus position among serious players in the FP community. That would exclude you intellectual Three-Card Monte dealers on this board. Slowly exterminate AQI over the next year. Buy off the Sunnis with the new Oil Law. Build a coalition government run by the Shias, but have a Sunni as defense minister, and leave a couple of brigades as a tripwire to secure Iraqi independence from Iran: one Stryker brigade in Kurdistan and one in West Anbar out by the H3 airbase to keep the Syrians in line. Most of all, form a firm cordon sanitaire at the Shatt al-Arab beyond which the Iranians will not cross. Senior Dems and realistic Republicans like Rice, Gates, Baker, and Kissinger understand that we can't just run away from the world's main oil center as you would have us do. Condi is stating an emerging Consensus position.
Do you actually think that people like George Mitchell and Bob Strauss want to walk into a shameless bugout, with the U.S. having absolutely no influence in the Arab and Islamic worlds? That's what you people are advocating.
If a Democrat did happen to win under those circumstances, they would be relatively powerless and subject to continued terrorist attack. You fuckwits don't understand this. That's why you aren't anywhere near the levers of power, and Barak, Hillary, and Richardson are.
Notice I left out Edwards. That wasn't an accident. Nobody that I know takes him seriously. Not even Ann Coulter.
But they sure do like your money. SUCKERS!!!!
May 8th, 2007 at 7:56 pmPlan B? We are now in the middle of Plan F as Failure.
So La Rice says we are not leaving Iraq? Well, thanks, CondoSleaza.
Sentient Americans -- now a majority -- figured out a long time ago that Bush wants to run out the clock until he leaves office, so he can drop the Iraq mess in the lap of the next President, swagger back to Crawford, and brag that the Iraq war was not lost on his watch.
What's another few thousand US soldiers killed, tens of thousands wounded, and a few hundred thousand Iraqi civilians killed, wounded, or displaced in the process? Bush's ego is at stake! The Creep wants his place in history! He wants the history books to say that he did not lose the war!
May 8th, 2007 at 8:20 pmValiant Penis: "The Dem Party, which has controlled America’s largest cities for decades, have done little or nothing for their black constituency. But they EXPECT you to vote for them because….you always have. How sad."
What have you and your buddies done?
May 8th, 2007 at 8:25 pmCondescendinglySleezy Rice says: “[O]ur friends in the [Middle East] need to know and the Iraqis need to know that we are not looking to leave Iraq . . .â€
And being the helpful, humble person I am, I'll finish that statement for our dear Madame Secretary --- ". . . until we've pried every last drop of crude oil from their cold dead hands."
Shazam!
May 8th, 2007 at 8:49 pmYeehaw.
Why would we EVER want to leave Iraq.
How else can we get their oil?
May 8th, 2007 at 10:52 pmCondi needs to go.
May 8th, 2007 at 11:09 pmCondi is a lying bitch and way over her fucking head.
May 8th, 2007 at 11:30 pmBush is conservative. The people who voted for him are too. The Court is supposed to interpret the constitution for those people. by Mr. President.
Nothing the Bush Crime Family has done is conservative. The Bush Crime Family has acted as radical extremists.
May 9th, 2007 at 1:13 amROSE: I sense — and you can tell me this is absolutely wrong — that the Administration and you as the point person are looking for a strategy for the United States to exit from Iraq.
sorry, I haven't read far in the comments, but WTF? He senses, what? Did I misread this? Bushco isn't looking for a way out. of course not. What are the fortresses for if not this? America wanted a nice little spot in the ME, looked around, found one and came in. And now here we are....who has the money? Record Profits for energy, armaments? Record debt for the little people. I thought Rose was a little more engaged.
May 9th, 2007 at 1:22 am"we’re looking for a strategy that is going to do what we went there to do."
Shouldn't we have gone there after we figured out the strategy??
Now Bush says if we don't succeed, it will be a colossal disaster and terrorism will run wild. How did that get past the risk analysis? Are we sure Bush has an MBA??
Bush and Condi. Neither have held real jobs. So it's no surprise both live in fantasy land.
May 9th, 2007 at 1:43 amRICE: So our friends in the neighborhood need to know and the Iraqis need to know that we are not looking to leave Iraq. That’s not why this President went into Iraq and it’s not how –
ROSE: Ever?
RICE: Charlie, we'll give up that country – when they pry it from our cold, dead hands.
May 9th, 2007 at 5:25 amMerlin: Totally support your rational approach and reality based comments. Keep up the good fight. Historical fact:
May 9th, 2007 at 6:45 amWhen I arrived in AnKhe VietNam in 1965 to support the 1st Cav Division, as a young Co exec officer I was called to a meeting by the supported battalion commander. He was a good leader overall, and after operational comments, went on to explain that where we were now standing plans existed, and he had seen them, for a bowling alley in a year or so, to support the troops the US would permanently be stationed there. No further comment needed.
VV re: #153:
May 9th, 2007 at 6:48 amCould you post a url for the site where you got that info about the ACLU supporting Muslim religion in schools but not Jews or Christians? My son hates Muslims, Jews, immigrants and the ACLU. He will love it...thanks...
We are going to have huge problems with the poor souls who come home from Iraq psychologically damaged. Crime, drugs, domestic violence, broken homes, homelessness, suicide... The armed forces are not making their recruitment quotas. They are sending less qualified people. They are sending criminals and gang members and then sending them for tours of duty of 15 months -- soon to be extended to 18 months -- some for the 4th or 5th rotation. How much combat is it reasonable for a person to tolerate? Do we even give a shit about these poor wretches? "Support the troops" is meaningless drivel if we keep messing with the hearts, minds, and souls of our military personel. When you meet that "crazy homeless man" on the streets, how much support are you going to give to this former trooper? These war-pig, chickenhawks are disgusting!
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