The New York Times reports:
Two years ago, Robin C. Ashton, a seasoned criminal prosecutor at the Department of Justice, learned from her boss that a promised promotion was no longer hers.
“You have a Monica problem,” Ms. Ashton was told, according to several Justice Department officials. Referring to Monica M. Goodling, a 31-year-old, relatively inexperienced lawyer who had only recently arrived in the office, the boss added, “She believes you’re a Democrat and doesn’t feel you can be trusted.” […]
Ms. Goodling would soon be quizzing applicants for civil service jobs at Justice Department headquarters with questions that several United States attorneys said were inappropriate, like who was their favorite president and Supreme Court justice. One department official said an applicant was even asked, “Have you ever cheated on your wife?”
Ms. Goodling also moved to block the hiring of prosecutors with résumés that suggested they might be Democrats, even though they were seeking posts that were supposed to be nonpartisan, two department officials said.
I want to hear from Bush supporters that they support the same “rules” for Hillary Clinton as they favor for Bush. You know, like the president doesn’t have to follow the law, and all that. How about it, trolls? You want to defend that proposition?
May 11th, 2007 at 11:48 pmFor the latest news, document dumps, email archives, hearing transcripts and other essential materials in the firings of U.S. attorneys, see:
May 11th, 2007 at 11:49 pm“The U.S. Attorney Scandal Documents Center.”
The “have you ever cheated on your wife” question suggests more than a mere Rethug aparatchik. It sugests a power-hungry, compensating for inadequacies bully.
May 11th, 2007 at 11:51 pmIf I were a guy, and Monica Goodling were my wife, I would want to cheat…
May 11th, 2007 at 11:53 pmand monica ( i don’t take it in the a** nor do i swallow ) goodling is the person responsible for covering up the bare breasts on the statues at DOJ ( we all thought that asscrap was responsible ).
new Rule !!!
Prudes no longer should be allowed anywhere near other humans.
May 11th, 2007 at 11:56 pmAnd Ms. Congeniality is getting immunity. Too bad because I’d like to see her trying to get along in a woman’s prison.
May 12th, 2007 at 12:04 amMonica is a bad, bad girl.
May 12th, 2007 at 12:05 amOne of my best friends is named Monica.
May 12th, 2007 at 12:11 amShe needs to change her name…
The Bush Regime are all criminal GOPer trash > end of story!
May 12th, 2007 at 12:13 amShe obviously KNOWS what she did was ILLEGAL.
The BEST part is finding who ORDERED her to do these ILLEGAL things.
Was it Abu Gonzo, Rove, or AWOLBoy???
We will SOON KNOW….
MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
May 12th, 2007 at 12:15 amMiss Monica is just another of the group of youngsters appointed by this administration that I affectionately call the ‘Hitler Youth’ for their cultish and fascist tendencies. Yes, I realize it’s been used before.
These youngsters believe everyone is on the team until, of course, they are tasked to root out the non-believers. The sooner we get rid of them, the better off the country will be.
May 12th, 2007 at 12:25 amOne of my best friends is named Monica.
She needs to change her name…
Comment by Ghost of Zooey
But Zooey, a name is but a reminder of a mental picture, and you shouldn’t change your memory…
May 12th, 2007 at 12:25 amAnother fascist pig whore.
May 12th, 2007 at 12:28 amI stay the course, I never change my name. heh,heh
May 12th, 2007 at 12:29 amoh, NO-O-O-O-O-OOOO…! tell me, doctor, how much time do i have left…? will i get to see my son graduate from high school in may…?
And, yes, I DO take it personally
May 12th, 2007 at 12:29 amThese youngsters believe everyone is on the team until, of course, they are tasked to root out the non-believers. The sooner we get rid of them, the better off the country will be.
Comment by bajsa — May 12, 2007 @ 12:25 am
I believe this is the pool our trolls come from.
May 12th, 2007 at 12:33 amHaving your talentless hack for a boss withdraw a promotion you had earned: $10,000’s.
May 12th, 2007 at 12:34 amSeeing your now former talentless hack for a boss suffer humiliation for being nationally exposed as a hack (not to mention being the subject of a criminal investigation): priceless.
“You have a Monica problem,†Ms. Ashton was told
Classic! :)
http://www.themodernman.com/
May 12th, 2007 at 12:34 amThe NYT article gives reason to believe that Goodling would have taken race, among other things, as an indicator of political suitability. (She specifically refers to graduation from Howard University Law School as evidence of unacceptable political views.) And what are the chances that she’d think a percieved homosexual was ideologically fit for employment in DOJ?
What other demographic characteristics did she interpret as markers of unacceptable private political opinions?
May 12th, 2007 at 12:37 amHmm, I wonder what color dress will the Good Monica will be wearing to the upcoming Congressional hearing? Will it be Red state Red, or will it be the original Monica Blue? Or maybe a nice tricolor outfit of red, white and blue, or would that be considered too ironic?
Cheers.
May 12th, 2007 at 12:37 amMonica isn’t going any wherr. She’s here to pleasure me.
May 12th, 2007 at 12:38 amThese youngsters believe everyone is on the team until, of course, they are tasked to root out the non-believers. The sooner we get rid of them, the better off the country will be.
Comment by bajsa
Hasn’t worked before, why now? America has done more in 200 years than others in thousands, believers aside,
May 12th, 2007 at 12:39 amBut Zooey, a name is but a reminder of a mental picture, and you shouldn’t change your memory…
Comment by AETZI
M’kay….
May 12th, 2007 at 12:42 amWho’s paying Monika’s legal bills? Not her. She’s apparently unemployed, has a mortgage and a few bucks in the bank.
Her lawyers include the head of criminal defense work at mega-firm Akin, Gump, John Dowd, and other partners, associates and researchers. That’s a few thousand bucks an hour in total.
Who’s paying? Maybe Mr. Dowd’s partner, Ken Mehlman knows for sure.
May 12th, 2007 at 12:49 amFrom the article:
Exactly. Assuming a Democrat is elected President and goes through the usual housecleaning of political appointees. It is reasonable to predict that Republicans will be crying foul relentlessly and accusing a Democratic Administration of placing only Democratic loyalists in those positions.
These kinds of stains do indeed follow the biblical curse, unto the fourth generation.
May 12th, 2007 at 12:50 amIf she tells the truth, someone’s in big trouble and is going to jail for at least ten years. She did not do this of her own volition. Someone other than Jesus told her how and what to implement. If it’s Rove, the Devil made her do it. Is Patrick Fitzgerald busy? He might want a do over.
May 12th, 2007 at 12:53 amEven Regent U. grad Monika knew the questions she was asking were illegal. Everyone knew what she was doing - tags like “a Monica problem” are office code for the obvious. Which means that her bosses knew precisely what she was doing, the ones who gave her responsibilities light years beyond her experience and skills.
If she’s guilty of illegal behavior, so are the VIPs at the DOJ and/or White House who gave her the keys to the hiring kingdom at Justice.
May 12th, 2007 at 12:54 amAnd Ms. Congeniality is getting immunity. Too bad because I’d like to see her trying to get along in a woman’s prison.
Comment by Shane — May 12, 2007 @ 12:04 am
Hold up just a moment Shane. Immunity is not immunity from prosecution, but immunity from having her testimony used against her. If a solid case can be made without using her testimony (and, in some cases, without being able to follow up on leads generated by her testimony) she can still be prosecuted, tried, convicted and jailed. And it appears like plenty of people are coming forward, and perhaps be willing to testify against her.
Maybe later she can get a book deal, “How I Graduated from a Third Tier Law School to Land a Job in the Bush Administration Making $133,000/Year Without any Prior Real-World Experience.”
May 12th, 2007 at 12:55 amYou cot damn right we gon cry foul. shyeah. that’s right
May 12th, 2007 at 12:56 amAh good ole Repuke values.They are the most un-American of people and should be treated with the utmost contempt.
May 12th, 2007 at 1:00 amComment by Mr. President — How do you feel about your lord and savior Bush? Do you feel that he is a good person? Do you feel that all this is about nothing?
May 12th, 2007 at 1:01 amDutchHenry are you Dutch? probably a stupid question.
May 12th, 2007 at 1:04 amM’kay….
Comment by Ghost of Zooey
Silly, ghosts are mental pictures,that manifest, as Zooey of the past.
May 12th, 2007 at 1:07 amMaybe later she can get a book deal, “How I Graduated from a Third Tier Law School to Land a Job in the Bush Administration Making $133,000/Year Without any Prior Real-World Experience.â€
Comment by Briseadh na Faire — May 12, 2007 @ 12:55 am
Thom Hartmann said Regent U. is a fourth-tier law school. How does one find out? Who makes the list?
Congressional Dems need to rethink the immunity deal. She’ll pull an Ollie North and help the Bushies slink out of this mess. I’d rather see her shackled from wrist to ankle in an orange jumpsuit a la Susan McDougal. I’m sure the nice ladies in federal prison would enjoy her company.
May 12th, 2007 at 1:09 amCongress should rethink the immunity deal. Get all the evidence together and, if they can convict, slap her in chains and an orange jumpsuit, then frogmarch her in full view of news cameras a la Susan McDougal.
What this country needs is poetic justice. Now more than ever.
May 12th, 2007 at 1:12 amComment by JTitor — May 12, 2007 @ 1:01 am
Honestly, I feel that the President’s ralley for a united “war on terror” caused many angry Americans to get overly zealous after 9/11. Do I feel that Bush wanted underlings to abuse their positions in the name of “patriotism”? No. I think that he wants all Americans to be treated fairly.
May 12th, 2007 at 1:14 amWhat this country needs is poetic justice.
what is more of a poetic justice than too buy ass?
May 12th, 2007 at 1:15 am#29
It’s not just Repuke values that got us into this nightmare. Many Democrats and Independents alike sold their values (votes) for a few pieces of silver. And they did it twice. Granted the second time they were peeing in their pants from fear.
May 12th, 2007 at 1:15 amLet them cry foul. Then I can see who they are. And hunt them to their death. Let them cry foul.
May 12th, 2007 at 1:20 amComment by Mr. President — But the actual crimes that are coming down the pike leading to the doorstep of the Whitehouse, you can’t say that he somehow didn’t know this was going on?
Here is the issue. NeoCons are devotees to Leo Strauss. Leo Strauss believed in a totalitarian form of government. NeoCons are neither conservative nor Republican; they are a hybrid of philosophical Ideologies based on GWF Hegel and Machiavelli (with a little Plato thrown in). Actually, the only thing that would appear that they have in common with Conservatives is their hate for Liberals. But if you read Strauss closely, you find that he transplants the word liberal as meaning anything weak in his mind. That included most of all religion, and democracy, the constitution, and bill of rights. Anything that would give people the power of choice. So anyone that actually believes the “Noble Lie” in Strauss words they are dupes and to be used as tools to meet this end. Please don’t take my word for it, disprove me and research what I say.
May 12th, 2007 at 1:33 amComment by the hunter — May 12, 2007 @ 1:20 am
Dick is that you
May 12th, 2007 at 1:34 amIf only this Monica had adminstered a humjob instead of shredding the Constitution and turning America into a hackocracy.
-GSD
May 12th, 2007 at 1:39 amI try not to read any of the products of Hegel’s phenomenological rants (I’m a neo-Schopenhauerian myself). Strauss’s “noble lie” is actually his absurd reading of Plato’s “Republic”, in which Socrates tells Glaucon and Adimantus that mythology is exceptable in poems as long as there is a moral/ethical theme. Plato, who I love, actually banishes Homer’s works (which were basically the ancient Greek’s “bible”) from the ideal city of the Republic.
By to the point though.
I can’t stand Heidegger or his group.
Arendt was a genious.
From what I’ve read (which is not much) of Strauss, he is a diluted fool like Hegel and Heidegger.
Adorno also seems lost, but I haven’t actually read his stuff.
May 12th, 2007 at 1:45 amComment by Mr. President — But the actual crimes that are coming down the pike leading to the doorstep of the Whitehouse, you can’t say that he somehow didn’t know this was going on?
But at the level of screening applicants, no I don’t think he knew.
He’s got too much brush to clear.
May 12th, 2007 at 1:47 amTypical Repukian morals and ethics, don’t believe I need to make a statement beyond that.
I just hate all the repukian scum
May 12th, 2007 at 1:48 am“She believes you’re a Democrat and doesn’t feel you can be trusted.â€
I keep getting visions of the little girl in the movie The Killing Fields who wheeled absolute power over life and death in a small farming community. You remember her, she smothered a worker with a plastic bag.
May 12th, 2007 at 1:58 amComment by Mr. President — Hopefully you respond. More so, hopefully, you research Leo Strauss and his mentor GWF Hegel. Hegel is very interesting, in that he inspired Karl Marx. Please research Alfonso Taft, a diciple of Hegel, came back to America from the University of Berlin where Hegel was a professor of philosophy, and Co-founded Skull and Bones at Yale University in 1832. All pieces of a puzzle.
May 12th, 2007 at 2:05 amComment by Mr. President — So your a Kantian-Schopenhauerian?
May 12th, 2007 at 2:12 amThanks JTitor, I definitely will. I’m taking a philosophy course this summer on “Violence and Cultural Conflict”. Hegel, if I remember correctly, is going to be discussed, namely his theory about the master/slave relationship.
As for all the pieces of the puzzle, we shall see. S and B always seemed like a big richboy joke to me but I don’t know to much about those secret societies.
I actually have to write a paper due Mon, so I probably won’t be able to research Taft till then but I will.
May 12th, 2007 at 2:15 amHumean-Schopenhauerian
May 12th, 2007 at 2:16 am“She believes you’re a Democrat and doesn’t feel you can be trusted.â€
After all
Democrat = Liberal
Liberal = Hippie
Hippie = Socialist
Socialist = Communist
Communist = atheist
atheist = Satan worshiper
what is there to trust?
May 12th, 2007 at 2:33 amComment by Mr. President — I din’t believe in any of this stuff either. I was always middle of the road, but was challenged to prove a friend wrong. I couldn’t, and instead 3 years later I understand that there is a measure of social engineering involved. These people truly believe in what they believe. So if your not BS’n and you are coming from the side of Schopenhauerian doctrine which is theology based. They you would be interested in Hegel and the “Owl of Minerva”, then google Inside Bohiemian Grove. Watch it.
May 12th, 2007 at 2:39 amRead this New York Time’s article and watch Bill Moyer’s PBS show this weekend and it just takes one to an even higher level of disgust.
May 12th, 2007 at 3:35 amI want all of Pat Robertson’s stealth lawyers fired, from city councils to DOJ.
Heh. Just a little bit of insider information for you geeks: she’s got powerful lawyers because her job now is to deflect and distort anything that might hurt Mr. Rove. Immunity was good, but she’s got to find an Abu-like way to stonewall.
But now the booze is making me talk too much. See you again tomorrow.
May 12th, 2007 at 3:54 amThe transcripts of Cheney’s meetings with the oil barons would reveal that the real reason to go to war was OIL. Our young men in the military are paying with their blood; the oil barons are making billions. Of course the minutes of such meetings have been destroyed. -post by Anthony Mesquida
May 12th, 2007 at 4:08 amBecause it seems she may be at the epicenter of it all and have the dirtiest hands of anyone, it is probably a bad idea to give her immunity. The immunity does not protect her from prosecution, but it protects all of her testimony and the fruits of that testimony from being used against her in a prosecution. It would be up to the prosecutor to show that the evidence accumulated against her was obtained independent of her testimony. The immunity however is only valid if she offers full cooperation. She cannot get immunity and then stonewall, plead the fifith, partially answer questions, be combative or otherwise show behavior that is not in full cooperation of the Congress. Immunity deals are agreements between prosecutors and witnesses. They are contracts. She only gets the benefits of the contract if she meets the performance standards set within.
May 12th, 2007 at 5:52 amThese events reek of Politburo-style shenanigans (and we thought we were a superior country to the USSR!). I think Rove and AWOL boy could have a Monica problem of their own. Ah, the irony.
May 12th, 2007 at 6:09 amAS I have stated before on other blogs, she knew exactly what she was doing, for whom, and for what purpose. That the AG is stiffarming the both House and Senate indicates this is just the tip of an iceberg…no one questioning him has a clue what Bu$h and his thugs have been up to for the last seven years. So as long as everyone is clueless, Gonzolas can ignore and dance around any questions thrown at him. By the time the public is aware of what they have been up to, it’ll be too late to stop it. Call me crazy, but there is something far more sinister than just 8 to 10 US attorneys getting canned for no reason. There is a profound purpose of political intent that is being ignored in favor of the simplicity of a quick answer.
May 12th, 2007 at 6:41 amreading just the first few comments I see that we are falling lock step into believing that this little 30 something chit is responsible for every evil that has come from the justice department.
I think the neocons recognized the little nitwit for what she was, the perfect fall guy. She was their filter. Run everything through her, and then stand out of the way with the sh*t hits the fan.
Even as Gonzales is now blaming everything on Kyle Sampson, (I guess Kyle was the defacto Attorney General), Monica Goodling will be next in line. Two people we’ve never heard of before these hearings. They are responsible for all the criminality in the justice department.
I don’t think so.
May 12th, 2007 at 7:14 amwow
May 12th, 2007 at 7:30 amGoodling, being a devoutly religious person making her one of the most danerous people on earth, should ask, what would Jesus do.
He would send flesh-eating locusts to devour her flesh and confine her to eternal damnation.
May 12th, 2007 at 7:47 am“Have you ever cheated on your wife?”
That leaves out most of the GOP presidential candidates.
May 12th, 2007 at 8:12 am“He would send flesh-eating locusts to devour her flesh and confine her to eternal damnation.
Comment by nofltwlt — May 12, 2007 @ 7:47 am”
Like father, like son…
What Jesus DID do:
Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn’t the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. See Matthew 5:17
“Brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.”
Matthew 10:21
Jesus kills a fig tree for not bearing figs, even though it was out of season. Jesus must not be as smart as Christians would have us believe, for he was retarded enough to do something this silly. You’d think the son of god (god incarnate) would know that trees don’t bear fruit in dry season. Mark 11:13
Luke 12:47 Jesus okays beating slaves.
May 12th, 2007 at 8:14 am“But now the booze is making me talk too much. See you again tomorrow.”
…floating in the Potomac.
May 12th, 2007 at 8:19 amDid anyone see Bill Moyers piece on Regent and Goodling last night?
May 12th, 2007 at 8:22 amGive us the details, TheToonguy. I missed it :(
May 12th, 2007 at 8:27 amI thought DOJ appointees served at the pleasure of the president, not the pleasure of Monica.
May 12th, 2007 at 8:43 amFunny, there’s another WH scandal involving a woman names Monica. Makes you long for the days of blow-jobs as a big offense, doesn’t it? I’m pretty sure that this Monica is only getting a limited immunity against perjury because she’s so sure her former bosses are going to “scooter” her. So, she can lie with impunity, if she can get past that whole “oath to God” thing. I’m betting she can.
(Immunity for impunity! there’s a slogan for them).
May 12th, 2007 at 8:45 amAt 31 and inexperienced. Heck fo a job and loyal to the cause all on the same plate. The MO fits to the tee.
If the Democrats fail to keep up the big push on uncovering justice inproprities , they will loose the next election. And handily.
May 12th, 2007 at 8:46 amFive US soldiers were killed and three went missing when their unit was attacked south of Baghdad, the US military has said.
the 3 missing troops should be tortured they could save Iraqi Lives - look forward to the first waterboarding video ever - hope they have a doctor to revive the fucker then do it again lets see if he can handle 2 and a half minutes like the pakistani did
May 12th, 2007 at 9:05 amHey, where are the trolls to argue or insult; seems like this piece of news should bring them out in droves. Why are they silent all of a sudden? Sheesh, you’d think they would have an opinion on something this damning.
May 12th, 2007 at 9:06 amThe Bushies used ideological litmus tests to determine not just who they thought should be dispensing justice, but also who should go to Iraq to help with the post-Mission Accomplished paradise. They hired nincompoops who answered the “right” way on questions unrelated to their administrative responsiblities.
More care was taken to ensure good evangelical Christians were put in charge than to ensure that they were competent individuals at their jobs. And partisan operatives, responsible for political campaigns were suddenly overseeing the “nation-building” we had to undertake. The results are obvious.
May 12th, 2007 at 9:13 amThis repugnant and flagrant abuse of power no longer shocks me; in fact, it’s now become “de rigeur” of this administration of charlatanism, cronyism, and scapegoatism (if Monica et al believe in their thirtysomething minds that they were ever qualified for the power of the position they hold, then they’re as brainwashed and deluded as Dubya himself! Monica is 33 and was basically swiped right out of Regent Law School along with some 150+ others whom Pat Robertson and his cadre of reichwing christofascist clones brainwashed totally. The amazing thing is that these sickos went undetected for 6 years and have infiltrated every aspect of this government. When a Democratic president wins the white house in 08, it will be time for the real “witch hunt” to begin and give these sickos a taste of their own medicine.
Is it any wonder why Bush called our entre into the Middle East jihad a “crusade”??? Is it any wonder why the lines of separation between church and state are becoming blurred to the point of total melding??? Is it any wonder why the level of religious zealotry and concomittant religious discrimination and bigotry has reached unparalleled proportions? It’s the “neofascist/christofascist “dream”"!~ And, they almost pulled it off on the american people but…..not so fast……in their zealotry, they’ve broken laws and are now considered to be “criminals” in this democracy.
There’s no doubt that Hitler counted on fear tactics and complacency to proffer his agenda which, to him, sounded realistic and plausible. In his level of self-delusion and/or dementia, Hitler actually believed himself to be “on the right path” (just like these GOP crusaders and Dubya). It’s a case of history repeating itself.
Is it small wonder that the French PM recently analogized this administration to the “third reich” of Adolph Hitler??
Anyone smelling sulphur???
May 12th, 2007 at 9:14 amEmerald: Yes, the results speak for themselves. Anyone with more than a room temperature IQ would scratch their heads in amazement that a 33 year old would somehow be more qualified than someone with decades of experience, wouldn’t they? The fact is that this entire administration was filled with graduates from Pat Robertson’s University of Bigotry and Evangelical zealotry without one iota of weight being given to their level of competency, experience, intelligence, or ability to handle the job they were hired to do.
Bush’s empire is cracking and it’s sinking like the Titanic. Rats are jumping ship but, unfortunately, the brainwashing done by the Regent University on these kids is very similar to the Jim Jones syndrome or the Koresh enclave. It’s pretty obvious when you see candid interviews of these graduates. They engage of radical christofascist speak and actually believe what they are saying……just like the Third Reich! They’re all “lockstep zombies”.
May 12th, 2007 at 9:18 amIt’s unbelievable the questions Goodling would ask. Those are blatantly discriminatory questions. Imagine if you sought a job at any corporation and they asked you those questions. Wouldn’t those questions seem extremely bizarre and irrelevant to the position at hand?
And the fact this is happening in our Department of Justice is one hundred times worse.
- Tom
May 12th, 2007 at 9:23 amFor four years I was willing to imagine most of the things that the Dubya administration did that were clearly harmful were accidents of bad judgment. But in context with Goodwin’s hiring and evaluation practices, Gonzo’s peculiar lapse of memory and his inability to anticipate even the most obvious questions about practices in his department suggest a pattern of undermining the fundamental machinery of democracy. Politicizing justice fits hand-in-glove with the military commissions act in creating a judiciary subservient to the president. The Patriot Act suggests how that could be advantageous to the president - being able to name people terrorists, confiscate their assets and throw them into a justice system controlled by the president.
This is all part of a very distinct pattern. Yet we remain blind to it. Why?
May 12th, 2007 at 9:26 amShe’s the Bizarro World Monica.
And now the Dems are the new communists: “Are you now or have you ever been a member of the Democratic Party?
From the hearings of the HURAC –The House UnRepublican Activities Committe.
unbelievable, it is distracting to the discussion to endure you attacks on all of Christianity. And your quotes show considerable ignorance of Christian and Jewish tradition. When Jesus says he’s come to fulfill the Law, he has already gone about breaking them one by one. And Matthew 10:21 is out of context; it refers to what will happen to his followers. And the fig tale has long been criticized, but there are four gospels and, if one doesn’t like the fig tale of Matthew or Mark, go to Luke –it’s probably what you’re looking for. And I wouldn’t say Jesus okays the beating of slaves: Read the whole parable! (Corporal punishment has only recently disappeared from our own books and public schools.)
Indeed, I’d say Luke 12:42-48 is the perfect parable for the Monica Goodling story. It’s a parable about bad management. It’s about the bad manager who, when the boss is away, deliberately berate, abuses, and demoralizes her underlings while looting her boss’s larder & winecellar. The tale tells of the boss returning unexpectly and providing proper oversight and punishment. Think of the Boss as The People of the USA and Monica as the serant abusing her position. The parable ends: Everyone to whom much is given, of him will much be required; and of him to whom men commit much they will demand the more.
May 12th, 2007 at 9:34 amGood Morning Unbelievable and Veritas, good post’s…Appreciate your insight on the relegious and political..
Another beautiful day in Washington state, more planting and lot’s of people to interact with..Likely going to be to busy to post or read much.
In all of the scandles of this black house my main concern is the foot dragging and cover up’s not covered…If the dem’s don’t hurry up the public will be as sick of them as they are of the reich winger’s by 2008.
Have a wonderful day and take care of the troll bashing …Blessings
May 12th, 2007 at 9:34 amPlease lets be careful here. Even a liberal can be a Christian. In fact it is my observation that liberals portray Christian attitudes and beliefs more than conservatives. So calling Jesus retarded is quite offensive to me. In fact calling anyone retarded is quite offensive to me. Sometimes the name calling defeats the purpose.
I’m quite disturbed about this immunity deal. I just have a feeling Monica isn’t going to give the committee what they need to get to the White House even though it seems the WH was behind the whole thing. Republicans have a way of getting out of trouble. Look at Ann Coulter. If anyone else had done what she did the Republicans would have been all over this. But instead they got her off. Unbelieveable!
May 12th, 2007 at 9:48 am#61
Jesus of Nazareth’s words were distorted by early church “fathers” who needed to gain control of the masses and their money. They used fear (heaven and hell) as their tool in establishing their “one true religion”. Sound familiar?
Check out this seminal work for a impressively clear insight into his authentic, original teachings:
http://www.amazon.com/ Second-Coming-Christ-Resurrection-Within/ dp/ 0876125550/ ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/ 103-7772741-6203847?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1178977520&sr=8-1
“Jesus Christ was crucified once; but his teachings are crucified daily at the hands of superstition, dogmatism, and pedantic theological misinterpretations. My aim in offering to the world this spiritual interpretation of his words is to show how the Christ Consciousness of Jesus, free from such crucifixion, can be brought back a second time into the souls of all who make the effort to receive it.â€
May 12th, 2007 at 9:55 am~Paramahansa Yogananda
“unbelievable, it is distracting to the discussion to endure you attacks on all of Christianity. ”
LOL… That’s just silly.
So, you’re saying that Christianity can’t handle the scrutiny? I didn’t think so.
It’s relevent to these threads, and relevent to the damage done to our country, therefore I will continue to spread the true words of the bible… Don’t like it? Then fix the damage being done in its name.
“And your quotes show considerable ignorance of Christian and Jewish tradition.”
Again - silly. I can read and I have read the Bible. That’s actually a lack of ignorance.
When it comes to reality-bible contradictions, Christians do one of two things. They either pervert the reality to fit the bible, or they pervert the bible to fit the reality. You’re changing what the bible says to make it seem less violent than it actual is. It’s really you david who is ignorant of the bible. And reality.
“When Jesus says he’s come to fulfill the Law, he has already gone about breaking them one by one. And Matthew 10:21 is out of context; it refers to what will happen to his followers.”
Prove it. It’s just YOUR opinion of what you WISH it said, and not what it actually says. I’ve spoken with people who’ve studied the bible in religious university programs, and they don’t think it means what you suggest, at all.
“And the fig tale has long been criticized, but there are four gospels and, if one doesn’t like the fig tale of Matthew or Mark, go to Luke –it’s probably what you’re looking for.”
I keep asking you to show me the verse that shows you how to pick and choose which biblical tenets to accept and which to ignore, and you keep dodging my request. How come?
Speaking of the four gospels, explain why their account of events after Jesus’ death don’t, on any level, agree? Explain why all four contradict one another on all accounts?
” And I wouldn’t say Jesus okays the beating of slaves: Read the whole parable! (Corporal punishment has only recently disappeared from our own books and public schools.)”
Parable? If the story is a parable, then explain how the whole bible isn’t one parable - including Jesus and god. You can’t keep twisting it to make it say what you want it to say.
“Indeed, I’d say Luke 12:42-48 is the perfect parable for the Monica Goodling story. […] The parable ends: Everyone to whom much is given, of him will much be required; and of him to whom men commit much they will demand the more.
Comment by david — May 12, 2007 @ 9:34 am”
More nonsense…
Just like teh creation parable, the Noah’s flood parable, the heaven and hell parable, the Jesus parable and the god parable…
You’re better off just thinking for yourself. After all, Atheists are far less likely to end up in jail than Christians (0.2% of a US population of 15% atheists are incarcerated).
Freethought is the path to enlightenment, and peace. Religion is the path to violence, anxiety, divisiveness, judgment, unnecessary suffering, and war.
May 12th, 2007 at 10:00 amGood morning Sharon,
So much ignorance in our country… It’s the cause of so much of its decline and destruction since the Lord Bush occupied the White House…
If only Impeachment would get itself back on the table…
May 12th, 2007 at 10:03 am“Please lets be careful here.”
I’m tired of being careful… It’s why we see a decline in our education system - because invoking Jesus gives peope the right to be ignorant… I refuse.
“Even a liberal can be a Christian. In fact it is my observation that liberals portray Christian attitudes and beliefs more than conservatives.”
Have you read the bible?
“So calling Jesus retarded is quite offensive to me. In fact calling anyone retarded is quite offensive to me. Sometimes the name calling defeats the purpose.”
Sometimes reality is offensive. I find the bible offensive. I find the fact that liberal Christians tolerating bible violence used by Fundamentalists to wage war to be offensive. I find the muder, rape, incest and oppression in the bible to be offensive.
So, you’re offended by Jesus’s retardation? Join the club…
“Unbelieveable!
Comment by Dabb — May 12, 2007 @ 9:48 am”
One too many ‘e’s…
May 12th, 2007 at 10:11 am“Jesus of Nazareth’s words were distorted by early church “fathers†who needed to gain control of the masses and their money. They used fear (heaven and hell) as their tool in establishing their “one true religionâ€. Sound familiar?”
That could be true… The problem is that these versions are what modern Christianity is based upon. Until modern Christianity rejects them as not being the infallable words of their god, then they are what we go with in debates. Otherwise, you could ‘what if’ yourself to death and never get anywhere…
“Check out this seminal work for a impressively clear insight into his authentic, original teachings:”
If this is the case, then why isn’t this being followed and the bible being tossed? As long as it’s not, and the bible is, then this isn’t the reality of modern Christianity that follows the bible - as is.
“Jesus Christ was crucified once; but his teachings are crucified daily at the hands of superstition, dogmatism, and pedantic theological misinterpretations. My aim in offering to the world this spiritual interpretation of his words is to show how the Christ Consciousness of Jesus, free from such crucifixion, can be brought back a second time into the souls of all who make the effort to receive it.â€
~Paramahansa Yogananda
Comment by Fedup — May 12, 2007 @ 9:55 am”
Thanks, but no thanks. I prefer free thought and science to any level of wishful thinking. I wasted 33 years of my life in Christianity, and find life is so much more enjoyable without some score-keeping sky daddy who criticizes your ever thought, act and belief…
May 12th, 2007 at 10:18 am#79
Excuse me? Christians who tolerate bible violence used by Fundamentalists to wage war are not what you would call liberal! That is offensive to the word liberal!
They are right-wing, evangelistic extremist conservatives hell-bent on converting the entire world according to their “one true religion”. They don’t care how many lives or limbs they destroy in doing so.
I’m a liberal. I don’t agree with their tactics or pretty much anything else concerning that whacked out wing of the Christian religion.
May 12th, 2007 at 10:25 am“If this is the case, then why isn’t this being followed and the bible being tossed?”
Because it only came out three years ago.
May 12th, 2007 at 10:29 amWould “None of your damned business” be an appropriate response to questions like those?
May 12th, 2007 at 10:31 amTheir defense will be that saint george didn’t do it so he is not responsible. Apparently he will only be responsibile for those things he has handled from start to finish.
May 12th, 2007 at 10:39 am“Excuse me? Christians who tolerate bible violence used by Fundamentalists to wage war are not what you would call liberal! That is offensive to the word liberal!”
Oh, stop with the petty offense over semantics. I’m a liberal and I disagree with your conclusion because you are defending Christianity, and I am pointing out it’s fallability. It has nothing to do with ‘liberal’ anything.
The bottom line is that when any Christian, regardless of political affliation, defends Christianity, regardless of its immoral behavior, then they are both tolerating and accepting those actions. I don’t see the ‘liberal’ Christians kicking the Fundamentalists out of the congregation. If anything, I see Christians blindly defend Christianity when it’s fallability, contradictions and errancy have been pointed out.
“They are right-wing, evangelistic extremist conservatives hell-bent on converting the entire world according to their “one true religionâ€. They don’t care how many lives or limbs they destroy in doing so.”
Then why you you let them stay? It’s like harboring a criminal in your home.
“I’m a liberal. I don’t agree with their tactics or pretty much anything else concerning that whacked out wing of the Christian religion.”
Comment by Fedup — May 12, 2007 @ 10:25 am”
Then where is the public outrage?
Because all I see is a united Christian front… and one that is used to instill ignorance, fear, world-domination, andoppression or women, gays, blacks and atheists…
“Because it only came out three years ago.
Comment by Fedup — May 12, 2007 @ 10:29 am”
I’d give you 300 years and it would still be in teh company of teh Gosepl of St. Thomas (declared heresy by the Catholic Church), and the Dead Sea Scrolls.
The Christian leaders won’t change anything - they cannot admit that they are fallable. It’s up to you who don’t like what the Fundamentalists are doing in your name to kick them out and make a change.
Until then, you’ll just have to be offended by people like me who’ve had enough of Christianity’s destruction and are now standing up to it, using its own book against it, and demanding that the United States stop tolerating what it is doing to our country. Because we’re sick of it.
May 12th, 2007 at 10:43 amunbelievable, the verses Matthew 10:16-23 clearly refer to what will happen to the followers of the Way; it’s not just my opinion. And if Jesus’ endorsement of the Law, Matt 5:17-20, is followed by a commentary by Jesus that includes ‘turning the other cheek’, ‘loving thy enemy’, ‘being modest about one’s faith’, and ‘not judging others’. Jesus also broke the commandments when he worked on the Sabbath, forgave adultery, etc. (See the charges brought against him.)
The whole Bible can be looked upon as one long parable. Why not? Your quarrel seems to be the Literalists. And why are you buying into their interpretation of the Bible? Theirs is a heresy. You might enjoy reading Karen Armstrong’s memoirs for some insight into faith and disbelief.
There are Four Gospels because all four are considered holy. Why should they agree? That’s a literalist, rational attitude. And actually, the Trial, Passion, and Crucifixion of the Jesus are the parts of the parallel gospels that agree most. Take even Jesus’ words on the Cross: My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? These are the opening lines of Psalm 22. It’s really a reference and John doesn’t use it, he uses the final line from Psalm 22.
I’m not sure what your prison statistics are meant to prove. I’m sure most people in prison are liars and so would say anything that might get them better treatment –even that they had religion when they didn’t. It’s a rather irrelevant stat.
Finally, why call the parable of the bad manager nonsense? It makes an excellent case against Monica. She’s the bad manager. She’s the one who has knowingly perverted the Will of Congress and intention of the Constitution. She must be held accountable and severely punished. Well, she’s been granted immunity, but she must be given to understand that she’s been bad or she’ll continue to defend her sinning co-conspirators.
I’m not sure what kind of horrible Church you attended or what kind of distorted Bible history you were given. But the story of the beaten servant is clearly a parable. And Freethought and Atheism are the paths to Enlightenment and Peace? Tell that to the victims of Stalinism and Maoism. Tell that to the victims of eugenics done in the name of Science.
The real crime in this story is that certain religious groups have latched onto the Republican party and then tried to purge the civil service of all non-Republican employees. It’s a cancer. The unbelievers are purged first from the Republican Party, then from the government. And, as the parable in Luke should tell us, it is not the will of the master, who in this case should be Congress and the Constitution.
May 12th, 2007 at 10:51 amI would like to write Monica a letter and ask her how it feels for the world to know that she may consider herself to be a religious person, but that what she is, is immoral with no regard for ethics or the law, and she has no regard or respect for the American justice system.
I hope her career as an attorney is completely ruined.
May 12th, 2007 at 10:53 amDon’t think that Goodling is coming out of this unscathed. She will have to testify publicly to Congress about her transgressions. She faces national attention for illegal and shameful conduct. Her career as a lawyer is pretty well over.
May 12th, 2007 at 11:01 am… therefore I will continue to spread the true words of the bible…
@ 10:00 am
“… as i wish to interpret them from what i’ve read
at antibible.com because i am a free thinker!”
-the great and all knowing un.
… always good for a chuckle… keep it up…
May 12th, 2007 at 11:03 amthe progressives need more reason to alienate more people…
NOT.
I gather from your posts, unbelievable, if the wars, murders, rapes, and mayhem in the world were committed by atheists, you’d be okay with that.
Where do you get a farcical idea that Christian leaders cannot even admit to being fallible? Of course they can. And they have. Even the Catholic doctrine of infallibility only dates back to 1870 –and was vigorously opposed by many Cardinals at Vatican I. (Hans Kung has a good book on the topic.)
The Bible is not to be read as a blueprint for society. It is many things. It’s myths & legends, it’s poetry, it’s history, it’s philosophy, it’s law, and it’s prophecy. And some of it’s laws have to be seen as historically limited. If you think the Laws of Moses were being followed to the letter for the last 2000 years by either good Jews or good Christians then YOU are woefully misinformed.
May 12th, 2007 at 11:07 amComment by unbelievable
You act like a self righteous ass just like the christianists… just saying… People dont like the christianists acting that way for a reason and it isnt because they believe in Jesus.
May 12th, 2007 at 11:13 am“unbelievable, the verses Matthew 10:16-23 clearly refer to what will happen to the followers of the Way; it’s not just my opinion.”
But why do you ignore the violent stuff Jesus supported (the entire OT)? WHy do you keep picking and choosing? The bible clearly says that you cannot question the word of your god, which it claims this entire book is…
“The whole Bible can be looked upon as one long parable. Why not? Your quarrel seems to be the Literalists.”
Not at all - my issue is with what the practice of a unified Christianity has done and is doing to ruin our nation. You’re just defending your opinion of what you think Jesus stands for. I’m glad you’ve chosen peace, but you don’t represent ALL of Christianity. The Bible does, and it is a violent book.
If you only wanna accept 40 or 60 verses of the bible, then you’re not really a Christian, as you can’t pick and choose. Either you’re a Christian who blindly follows the bible as the inerrent word of Jehovah, or you’re something else. And as that something else - which is based upon some degree of rational thought, I don’t get why you are focusing on my message, and not the message of the Fundamentalists. Why aren’t you arguing with them about stuff that’s life and death? Hmmm? There’s a part of my point. You’re blind to them, while arguing semantics with me…
“And why are you buying into their interpretation of the Bible? Theirs is a heresy. You might enjoy reading Karen Armstrong’s memoirs for some insight into faith and disbelief.”
Unlike you believers, we freethinkers don’t buy into anyone else’s interpretation. I’ve read the bible. It’s a horrible, horrible book filled with some random fortune cookie peaceful comments that are contradicted. Anyone who interprets the bible as a book of peace has never read it, or is in serious denial. It’s not a ‘good’ book at all.
“There are Four Gospels because all four are considered holy. Why should they agree?”
Because that’s what FACTS do… They can’t even agree on where Jesus was seen after he ‘arose from the dead’. That’s a basic fact that the word of an omniscient being should be able to get straight. The fact that there are no agreement of facts makes it not true. Call it a parable - but as I said - then the whole book is nothing but parable because the whole book is relatively the same approach from Genesis to Revelation.
“That’s a literalist, rational attitude.”
Again david - you cannot take some of the book literally and some as parable when the book itself says that it is the word of an omniscient deity…
“And actually, the Trial, Passion, and Crucifixion of the Jesus are the parts of the parallel gospels that agree most.”
“Take even Jesus’ words on the Cross: My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? These are the opening lines of Psalm 22. It’s really a reference and John doesn’t use it, he uses the final line from Psalm 22.”
I’d rather take the fact that Jesus said such a thing, if it was the plan that he die in such a manner…
Or the fact that there were no crosses in thatday. They impalled or hung people from stakes - not crosses. The cross was added years later to include pagans into the mix.
The fact that those stories agree on some points but bear no historical credibility cannot be discarded.
It also doesn’t erase the fact that the majority of the bible, including the four gospels supposedly divinely inspired, contradicts itself.
“I’m not sure what your prison statistics are meant to prove. I’m sure most people in prison are liars and so would say anything that might get them better treatment –even that they had religion when they didn’t. It’s a rather irrelevant stat.”
See david, you’re doing it again… You are twisting facts to fit your opinion. Lying to an anonymous study gains no one any favor, so there’s no point in doing it. Plus, you’d have to give me a credible reason for an Atheist lying about being an Atheist, considering how it makes no difference to a blind survey.
My point is that no one needs religion as a basis of morality when there is less morality among the religious in the first place.
“Finally, why call the parable of the bad manager nonsense? It makes an excellent case against Monica.”
Because parables are nonsense. You have to make a case on FACTS…
“I’m not sure what kind of horrible Church you attended or what kind of distorted Bible history you were given.”
Oh stop it… You’re doing it again… You’re trying to pervert reality to fit your religious needs. I attended many different churches of many different Christian flavors. You can’t pin this on a single experience. There wasn’t one. It was the bible that started my skepticism, and a study of science (why the ID people came about to hide reality of science) that killed religiousity for me.
“But the story of the beaten servant is clearly a parable.”
Clearly? Again, you keep refusing to point to the verse in the bible that tells you which verses are literal and which are parables. It’s because you cannot. The bible claims to be fact…
“And Freethought and Atheism are the paths to Enlightenment and Peace? Tell that to the victims of Stalinism and Maoism.”
Again, not done in the name of Atheism. Done in the name of “Communism”. Their leaders just happened to have been atheists. In fact, no war has ever been waged in the name of Atheism. Nor will it - as we who think life ends at death value it more than those of you who think it’s a dress rehersal for something subsequent.
“Tell that to the victims of eugenics done in the name of Science.”
Again, you’re distorting to try and vilify something that has no intention - this time - Science. It’s pathetic david and it shows that you’re just spouting someone else’s opinions now…
“The real crime in this story is that certain religious groups have latched onto the Republican party and then tried to purge the civil service of all non-Republican employees. It’s a cancer.”
Then stop debating me and start doing something about it. Start your own movement and kick themout - then chuck the bible.
“The unbelievers are purged first from the Republican Party, then from the government. And, as the parable in Luke should tell us, it is not the will of the master, who in this case should be Congress and the Constitution.
Comment by david — May 12, 2007 @ 10:51 am”
You want me to take your “parable” as facts? Again - no thanks. I prefere reality.
I’ll expect your response to point me to the passage in the bible that says which tenets to accept and which to reject. Otherwise, you’ll just validate my point that Christians either pervert realityto fit the bible, or pervert the bible to fit reality and you’re good at both.
May 12th, 2007 at 11:23 amkaty - stop speaking to me or about me. It’s not my fault you are a sheep, or that you think Christianity can’t stand the scrutiny. Those are your insecurities. Stop projecting them on those of us who prefere to think for ourselves.
If anything is funny it’s your hypocrisy. You can’t turn the other cheek for anything. LOL
May 12th, 2007 at 11:28 amI like Maher’s comment the other night - once the jig was up “Monica hired a lawyer who went to a real law school” heheh
May 12th, 2007 at 11:33 am“I gather from your posts, unbelievable, if the wars, murders, rapes, and mayhem in the world were committed by atheists, you’d be okay with that.”
From what part of pacifist vegan do you get that ridiculous conclusion? And it si ridiculous… Because, atheists aren’t committing the majority of violent acts in the world - because we don’t have an ideology aside from ‘think’. Atheists won’t become what you claim because it goes against the whole premise of ‘thinking’.
“Where do you get a farcical idea that Christian leaders cannot even admit to being fallible? Of course they can. And they have.”
Oh stop it. Show me one place where the Pope, Jerry Falwellor Pat Robertson said “I was wrong”. And not some parable that you twist into some outrageous explanation of what they actually said.
“Even the Catholic doctrine of infallibility only dates back to 1870 –and was vigorously opposed by many Cardinals at Vatican I. (Hans Kung has a good book on the topic.)”
But it exists now.. And we’re talking about now.
It also didn’t accept women as human beings until 632…
“The Bible is not to be read as a blueprint for society. It is many things. It’s myths & legends, it’s poetry, it’s history, it’s philosophy, it’s law, and it’s prophecy. And some of it’s laws have to be seen as historically limited.”
Prove where the bible says that. If you can’t - it’s just YOUR opinion. And I already know you can’t david - so just admit that you can’t and prove your own fallability… LOL
“If you think the Laws of Moses were being followed to the letter for the last 2000 years by either good Jews or good Christians then YOU are woefully misinformed.
Comment by david — May 12, 2007 @ 11:07 am”
First of all - you pull all of that out of your wazoo? Because I sure didn’t say or imply that at any point. By the way, which laws of Moses? There are two different sets of “The” Ten Commandments in the bible…
Unlike you and your brethern, I accept human nature as it is… The fact that you cannot makes you woefully delusional.
May 12th, 2007 at 11:37 am“You act like a self righteous ass just like the christianists… just saying… ”
Clearly… Because you can’t do anything else but “just say”. You’re just pissed off that I kick your butt in bible debates. LOL
And you’re projecting. You don’t like what I’m saying, so you get upset and then project your “self-righteous assness” on to the words I have written. Not my fault you don’t like facts.
“People dont like the christianists acting that way for a reason and it isnt because they believe in Jesus.
Comment by Gerald Gibson Jr — May 12, 2007 @ 11:13 am”
Of course it is. All they do is based on Jesus. And they have a perfectly acceptable (by their own standards) place to see that Jesus is about 30% peace and about 70% a chip off the old violent block…
May 12th, 2007 at 11:41 amWhy did they give this Nazi bitch immunity? They should have dragged her up to Capitol Hill and let her take the 5th - They aren’t going to get anything out of her anyway…Now when the whole story does come out, she’ll write a book and make a bundle. There’s a special place in Hell for people like this.
May 12th, 2007 at 11:47 am“The “have you ever cheated on your wife†question suggests more than a mere Rethug aparatchik. It sugests a power-hungry, compensating for inadequacies bully.”
The sad thing is, I think the answer she was looking for was “yes”. That would prove that the person she interviewed could be corrupted and I’m sure that was a necessary qualification for anyone she interviewed. What she did was against the law, you know, a crime.
A challenge to the Republic trolls here. Let’s do a little role reversal. Let’s pretend that Bush was a Democrat. Would you still say that all the things he and his administration has done is OK with you?
Not that I expect any troll to answer that question because they know that they are a bunch of hypocrites.
May 12th, 2007 at 12:04 pmI agree with QUALAR, it isn’t like Monica Goodling just decided that she was only going to hire team players. I’m sure she got her orders from The White House but these guys are nothing but shrewd, I’m sure these orders were handed down through a number of channels. They have learned from Nixon and the Mafia. Plausible Deniability. She is a scapegoat and after this is all over, she will be well taken care of, no doubt.
May 12th, 2007 at 12:09 pmDear unbelievable, you have some bizarre notion that Atheism is an organized religion. It is not. There is no such thing. Atheism merely describes what people lack –a belief in a personal god. So be it. It doesn’t mean that these people think or that they naturally tend toward peace and justice. That’s a logical fallacy. And it’s no different than Monica Goodling’s misbegotten belief that Fundamentalist Christian would serve Justice better than Democrats and Liberals. You are Monica’s mirror image.
You are ignorant of the Bible’s history. It was never written as ONE BOOK. You can’t even quote me the verse that says the Holy Bible is the Word of God and one cannot pick and choose because it’s not there. It never was written as one book. And even the verse in Revelations, which was sent as a letter and pamphlet, only refers to Revelations. All the books of the Bible existed as separate books at one time. That’s why the Catholic and Protestant Bibles are NOT identical.
The story of the bad servant is a parable because Jesus says it is. Jesus taught in parables. He told stories. He even explains to his listeners what his stories mean. And people like you, who don’t get Art, Poetry, Drama or Religion, just don’t understand how humans communicate. All language is metaphor. It’s not about FACTS. It never has been about FACTS. Look at the roots of all words and you’ll find metaphor. This is like that.
You are ignorant, unbelievable, and you won’t admit you are fallible because you’ve tried to give meaning to the lost 33 years of your life by crusading against the Bible. Well, let go. There is no such thing as “unified Christianity”. There never has been. Even Original Sin isn’t part of the Eastern Church because they never saw the sense in it. And the Fundamentalists are as much the enemy of traditional Catholic and Protestant Christianity as they are atheists and agnostics. (See Talmudic history or consult Hans Kung or Karen Armstrong.)
BTW, “retarded” is an offensive term just as saying the N-word or the F-word. I take it you don’t know any people with Down Syndrome or Autism, do you?
And me? I don’t presume to insult any religion. I’ve read the Bible, the Bhagavad Gita, the Lotus Sutra, the Tao de Ching, and Darwin’s On the Origin of Species. All great works of faith.
May 12th, 2007 at 12:15 pmYou can watch Bill Moyers Regent University program at:
http://www.pbs.org/ moyers/ journal/ 05112007/ watch.html
Enjoy!
May 12th, 2007 at 12:22 pm“Dear unbelievable, you have some bizarre notion that Atheism is an organized religion. It is not. There is no such thing.”
No david, that was YOUR assertion, when you claimed that Atheism was the cause for actions on behalf of Communistic Disctatorships.
I said that we have no ideology. That makes us NOT a religion. In fact, the people who try to consider us a religion are usualliy Christians… We do, however, have philosophical similarities - as I also mentioned - it’s about ‘thinking’.
David, stop trying to put words in my mouth that I have not said. I know you’re into re-interpreting things to fit your views of the world, but it’s just asinine.
” Atheism merely describes what people lack –a belief in a personal god. So be it. It doesn’t mean that these people think or that they naturally tend toward peace and justice. That’s a logical fallacy.”
I love how you’re now telling me what Atheism is. LOL.
Actually, logic dictates that if a person values this life, they are less inclined to waste it or destroy others. I didn’t say ‘never’ or ‘no one’ Atheistic does this (after all - I admitted that 0.2% of people in prison are Atheists). Absolutes are rarely a part of my vocabulary - so trying to insert them there loses credibility for you.
Does logic not work for you either? I took a class on it in collegeand as a Christian at the time, I had a problem understanding it, because it defies the principals of ‘belief’.
“And it’s no different than Monica Goodling’s misbegotten belief that Fundamentalist Christian would serve Justice better than Democrats and Liberals. You are Monica’s mirror image.”
That’s a really bad strawman. You’re now trying to take what I said and turn into into nothing I intended so that you could knock it over and defelect from the fact that you’re still ignoring my request to post the biblical passage that tells you what verses to take literally, and which to take as parables, which to reject, and which to embrace…
“You are ignorant of the Bible’s history.”
Nope. I’m also not ignorant of history. You kow, the stuff that proves that Moses never wandered the desert (zero evidence), that the flood never occurred (no breaks in the historical record) and that Jesus was really a parable himself (he was a copy of previous godmen who were the ’sons’ of other gods).
“It was never written as ONE BOOK.”
Then why is bound together as one book now if it isn’t supposed to be taken as one book.
“You can’t even quote me the verse that says the Holy Bible is the Word of God and one cannot pick and choose because it’s not there.”
That was your assignment - not mine. Stop asking me to do your homework…
“It never was written as one book.”
Yes, I am very much aware - but so what? Really - so what? It is accepted, bound and used as one comprehensive book.
“And even the verse in Revelations, which was sent as a letter and pamphlet, only refers to Revelations. All the books of the Bible existed as separate books at one time. That’s why the Catholic and Protestant Bibles are NOT identical.”
There are many bibles in print… Last I check 32 versions. Doesn’t assist your argument. In fact, it assists mine that if you don’t believe what the other 100 sects believe, why do you all label yourselves with one title which you defend against criticism, but not against use for killing people?
“The story of the bad servant is a parable because Jesus says it is. Jesus taught in parables. He told stories. He even explains to his listeners what his stories mean.”
Because Jesus says it is? Prove Jesus mattes. Prove Jesus is who you claim he is. Until you prove Jesus is what you wish him to be, he is no authority on anything.
Jesus said that he supported the OT. How do you twist that? Or will you just ignore this question as well and cling to your parable excuse?
“And people like you, who don’t get Art, Poetry, Drama or Religion, just don’t understand how humans communicate.”
Don’t get art? I have a degree in art. Just an associates degree, but I went on to study architecture and engineering. I’m all about art. I also have written poetry and was the VP of my HS Drama Club. I get it. What you don’t get is that it is honest about being fiction. The bible isn’t.
“All language is metaphor.”
Four plus four equals eight is a metaphor for what?
You did say ALL…
“It’s not about FACTS. It never has been about FACTS.”
I’m guessing you don’t own a dictionary then? LOL
“Look at the roots of all words and you’ll find metaphor. This is like that.”
This rant is one of the most irrational things you’ve said… I genuinely cannot believe a grown adult would actually say such nonsense.
You really don’t know much and it’s obvious that instead of admitting it, you just make a bigger embarrassment of your ignorance.
The Greeks, from whom we get a large part of our language, were all about exact meanings for words. It’s why there are so many words - meant to be SPECIFIC in communicing or informing.
“You are ignorant, unbelievable”
Of course I have ignorances. No one can know everything. But I david, am far less ignornat than you when it comes to a host of topics - including the bible.
“and you won’t admit you are fallible”
I asked you to do this, and look at the hissy fit you’ve pitched as a result. Of course I am fallable - I just correct it when I find it. Like becoming an Atheist.
“because you’ve tried to give meaning to the lost 33 years of your life by crusading against the Bible.”
So now you’re a psychologist? LOL
The meaning to my life is my choice. And it’s not this. I do this because I’m sick of what Christianity is doing to our nation.
“Well, let go.”
Nope. Not until we restore our freedom FROM religion in this country. Not until Science is free from religious silence.
“There is no such thing as “unified Christianityâ€. There never has been. Even Original Sin isn’t part of the Eastern Church because they never saw the sense in it. And the Fundamentalists are as much the enemy of traditional Catholic and Protestant Christianity as they are atheists and agnostics. (See Talmudic history or consult Hans Kung or Karen Armstrong.)”
Then act like they are. You don’t. You all act like unified Christianity - you just refuse to see it because it is actually you who cannot admit that you might be wrong. I was wrong about it myself. I know how hard it is to see how wrong you are. But I did, and I let it go. Now you, let it go…
“BTW, “retarded†is an offensive term just as saying the N-word or the F-word. I take it you don’t know any people with Down Syndrome or Autism, do you?”
I didn’t call someone with Autism retarded, nor would I. Just as I don’t use the n-word. I called a parable retarded. That’s like calling Santa Claus retarded. Not offsensive, well, unless you have nothing, and just want to argue semantics to hide the fact that you have nothing…
The “f-word” equally offensive to the n-word? You’re joking right?
“And me? I don’t presume to insult any religion. I’ve read the Bible, the Bhagavad Gita, the Lotus Sutra, the Tao de Ching, and Darwin’s On the Origin of Species. All great works of faith.
Comment by david — May 12, 2007 @ 12:15 pm”
YOUR opinion. And of course you can’t or won’t criticize their negative aspects of the religious books (Buddhism is a philosophy and Darwin’s text was not religious but science)- which so exist - in abundance (Crusades, witch burnings, Inquistion, wars, torture, hate for others who reject the ideology). That’s obvious. LOL
You just refuse to accept that I am entitled to MY own opinion - that Christianity does more harm than good and should be called out for it - and instead feel threatened on some level because of it. That’s not my problem david - its yours.
May 12th, 2007 at 12:48 pmdavid, I will return later to respond to whatever you say. It would just be really cool if you would post the proof that you espouse the bible contains on parables - or admit that it is simply your opinion. I’m guessing you will continue to do neither, and will resort to more ad hominem attacks to try and deflect from the fact that my points are valid… Which is what I’ve come to expect from Christians who like the title, but not the scrutiny…
May 12th, 2007 at 12:59 pmi recommend that starbucks hire goodling to get to the bottom of the mermaid’s missing nipples
May 12th, 2007 at 1:04 pmAnd I’ll add a link to Obama Critiques Democrats’ Religiophobia. Senator Obama delivers an inspiring and insightful speech. The text is introduced by Rabbi Lerner.
Atheists are not all freethinkers. Nor do they own ‘progress’ or ‘liberalism’. Indeed, I’ve known many a neanderthal atheist who was more concerned with looking out for #1.
Monica Goodling represents the kind of Christianity professed by Pat Robertson. It’s a peculiar sect uncommon outside of America. But it does the Democratic Party no favours if so-called liberal bigots lump every Christian in Pat Robertson’s congregation. Remember: Before the slogan “In God We Trust” was tacked onto the currency it read “E Pluribus Unum”. Let’s try to remember that we can be one even if we come from all points of the spiritual compass.
May 12th, 2007 at 1:04 pmHow is it possible, even conceivable in a nation that supposedly respects the rule of law, that the top law-enforcement agency, the Department of Justice, can block the testimony of Ms. Monica M. Goodling, a key witness and prime suspect in the partisan hirings and firings of U.S. Attorneys? It makes no sense that the very department charged to root out crimes against our nation is allowed to “protect†the same individuals who are suspected of perpetrating crimes against our democracy. How is it again possible that the courts, at the request of the very department under investigation, can grant a deal protecting from prosecution a prime suspect of and a key witness to the investigation? It makes absolutely no sense, unless, that is, we face the unthinkable possibility that the current executive branch has accomplished a silent coup by subverting our system of justice to one more reflective of petty, third-world dictatorships. Ms. Goodling, a graduate of Pat Robertson’s Regent School of Law, fired “suspected†Democrats in the DOJ for being “untrustworthy,†kept records of which attorneys were members of the Federalist Society (a conservative, pro-Bush organization), and allegedly was the one who prepared the “hit list†of those U.S. Attorneys not cow-towing to the Bush political agenda. For all of this “initiative,†she was promoted to liaison between the White House and the DOJ. Then she resigned and pleaded the Fifth when this house of cards began to fall apart. So much for the “rule of law.â€
May 12th, 2007 at 1:08 pmYou can watch Bill Moyers Regent University program at:
http://www.pbs.org/ moyers/ journal/ 05112007/ watch.html
Enjoy!
Comment by Kate Henry — May 12, 2007 @ 12:22 pm
Soros-funded agitprop for USA haters.
May 12th, 2007 at 1:27 pmThom Hartmann said Regent U. is a fourth-tier law school. How does one find out? Who makes the list?
Congressional Dems need to rethink the immunity deal. She’ll pull an Ollie North and help the Bushies slink out of this mess. I’d rather see her shackled from wrist to ankle in an orange jumpsuit a la Susan McDougal. I’m sure the nice ladies in federal prison would enjoy her company.
Comment by M. Peach Cheney — May 12, 2007 @ 1:09 am
Newsweek ranks schools each year. The lowest tier is 4. Remember, it was oringinally CBN University
Monica Goodling will end up being touted as someone who fought the battles agaonst the great unwashed and was just a casualty of the war against our great and glorious leader, George Bush. She will end up as a legal analyst for Faux News, Wingnut Daily News, etc. and will never give a blow job in her life.
May 12th, 2007 at 1:42 pmPaulose the freak USA in Minnesota got her first government in the civil rights division UNDER CLINTON.
(this has been a preemptive strike on “I bet Clinton only hired dems to justice, but slick willy never got caught”, your’e welcome.)
May 12th, 2007 at 1:44 pmRemember Monica — lying is a sin.
May 12th, 2007 at 2:01 pmMatthew 13:3, And he told them many things is parables. If you want an ALL or NOTHING answer to Life, the Universe, and Everthing, you won’t find it. And religion is in our genetic makeup, so get used to it. Or go back in your closet.
And there is no logical reason why an atheist should value the lives of others or the environment or be at all good. Indeed, logic would dictate neo-liberal self-interest. That is, the kind of nonsense preached by that wonderful atheist Ayn Rand.
Indeed, Machiavelli, the patron saint of Atheism, is also the patron saint of the neo-cons. (Not that I take you very seriously when you say “we” when you refer to Atheists.) But I do see you as the mirror image of Monica Goodling. You seem on some crusade to force all religious people to bow down to your bigotry.
(And I meant f*gg*t when I refered to the F-word.)
I really would be interested to hear what you consider great Art and Literature. I just find your concept of humanity so small-minded. And I live three blocks from a Buddhist monastery and I know they call themselves a religion. And Darwin? I take it you don’t read Stephen Jay Gould? Darwin writes with great sensitivity and faith –not the small-minded faith of Sunday School– but something that embraces unthinkable sizes of Time and Space.
I should point out that I’ve never said I was a Christian. I am not. I came to the defense of progressive and liberal Christian traditions from attacks of your unthinking bigotry. I know plenty of Christians who have defended their faith against the Christian Right. Jimmy Carter left the Church he’d gone to hall his life because it no longer spoke to him and found a more liberal one. If you haven’t heard these things, it’s because you’ve closed your ears to all that’s happening in liberal religion.
May 12th, 2007 at 2:30 pm“Well, let go.â€
Nope. Not until we restore our freedom FROM religion in this country. Not until Science is free from religious silence.
Comment by unbelievable — May 12, 2007 @ 12:48 pm
is THAT what you’re all about?!?! … well, great! terrific! …
then why are you sidetracking those goals with personal insults
about other people’s beliefs and faith?
why not concentrate on the freedom and science thing,
and quit trying to make yourself feel better by attempting
to demean everyone who doesn’t share your ideals and
impressions about religion?…
hell, you’re starting to sound like darryll here…
quit with the anti-religion proselytizing and preach instead
about the perils of the robertson/falwell’s way and
how it affects said freedom and science…
you’re great at that… and i mean that sincerely…
but don’t come back whining about how i’m not supposed
May 12th, 2007 at 2:54 pmto talk to you or about you… you only look silly…
…
People like MG are not simply a symbol of inadequecies who barely make it at 4th degree-rated universities but, more importantly, they are the forefront, the symbol of a fascist-type propaganda
May 12th, 2007 at 3:09 pm# 33.
http://www.usnews.com/ usnews/ edu/ grad/ rankings/ law/ brief/ lawrank_tier4_brief.php
US News and World Report on the best graduate schools. Regent University is a tier 4 (lowest level) law school.
May 12th, 2007 at 3:32 pmoh, and another thing…
i heard someone speak on the teevee recently
about the “religion is the root of all evil” theme…
he pointed out that even if religion did not exist
there would still be wars and destruction
because there will always be greed and ego…
and THAT’s the way it is…
so much to do… errands to run…
May 12th, 2007 at 3:39 pmmy baby graduates college tomorrow!…
later, maybe…
…
> But it does the Democratic Party no favours
> if so-called liberal bigots lump every
> Christian in Pat Robertson’s congregation.
Your guilty by association. Other than the church who tried to put out those ads saying they didnt condemn homosexuality, there has been pretty much no organized attempt from any major christian figure to denounce any of the idealogy or methodology of people like robertson. And frankly, you guys have more resources and ability to speak out against extremism in your own ranks than modetate muslims do. You seem like a decent guy, so I’m not going to question your individual decencey. I don’t know you so I have no place doing so. But when you make yourself part of a collective conciousness, that conciousness being christinianity, you make yourself part of a very deep dark malignancy in this world. Monotheistic religions are one of the most insidious diseases that have plauged the minds men. It would rather watch millions of people die of disease and overpopulation than give them knowledge about birth control. It demands people follow without questioning or doubt. Thats a recipe for disaster, and puppet dictators like bush could have never come to power in america today without the power of religion. How many of the people voted for Bush out of some misplaced beleif in the value of “life”, only to have to person they voted for extinguish so much of it, in a very painful fashion? So, David, sorry that you get lumped in with alot of people you don’t agree with, but in my opinion, you and those like you arent doing enough to separate yourself from them. I guess your just “collateral damage” in a war of idealogies.
May 12th, 2007 at 5:48 pmSo, Choclate Jesus, you do understand that “guilt by association” is a logical fallacy of the kind practised by Monica Goodling in her little partisan witchhunt.
Am I to understand that should you be appointed Attorney General that you would purge all Christians, Jews, Muslims, and Sikhs? Aren’t you saying they’re all guilty because some of their members have committed crimes or said stupid and hurtful things?
“You guys have more resources”? Where did you get a pompous and bigoted idea like that from? I suppose you think Jews have a knack for making money and the Vatican could buy the Earth several times over. Hello! Earth to Choclate Jesus. Pat Robertson and the other televangelists and fundamentalists have money to burn because most of their ministry is spent fundraising on TV and radio. In case you hadn’t noticed traditional, liberal, and progressive churches are not bloated with cash and spend most of it doing good work. (Including opposing the radicals.)
Did you read Obama’s speech on Democrats’ Religiophobia? I thought not. Ever heard of the Rev. Jesse Jackson. He doesn’t call himself Reverend the way some Southerners call themselves Colonel. And he speaks out on the issues every week. In fact, churches speak out all the time. If a church becomes overtly political they lose their charitable tax status. Oddly, this mostly happens to liberal churches. And I began this quarrel with unbelievable in the story about Benedictine nuns protesting Bush’s war in Iraq. She seemed to think they were also “guilty by association” (She’s claims to be logical, but she commits this fallacy in every post.)
And where do you get a half-baked fraudulent idea like “Monotheistic religions are one of the most insidious diseases that have plauged the minds men”? Again, you’re lumping every one in the same pot and pretending you’re just making a fair assessment. B*llsh*t. You’re completely clueless as to what’s going on in your own community churches. Here I am telling you MOST CHRISTIANS AREN’T LIKE FALWELL & ROBERTSON, but you won’t listen. How much louder do we have to scream?
Wake up, Choclate Jesus! (And I bet you didn’t even listen to the sculptor who made the Chocolate Jesus and only want to be provocative because it got Bill Donohue’s knickers in a knot.) But where are you? Do you belong to Amnesty International? Human Rights Watch? The ACLU? I see a lot of big talk from so-called secular progressives who then let people with strong convictions do the hard s